| IVOD_ID |
16342 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16342 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-05 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-05T08:31:01+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-05T14:44:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
06:12:59 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a6854d2bbad01105bb9cb6918ac9a8133975a82e37f9ba35fd77d64f7e0e2f304d075ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-05T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員第1次聯席會議（事由：審查
一、委員謝衣鳯等17人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。
二、委員陳菁徽等20人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。
三、委員黃捷等22人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。
四、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。
五、委員范雲等16人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。
六、委員林楚茵等18人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。
七、委員王育敏等18人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。
八、委員黃秀芳等18人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。
九、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。
十、委員林月琴等17人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。
十一、國民黨黨團擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。
十二、委員洪申翰、范雲等21人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。
十三、委員吳沛憶等18人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。
十四、委員林淑芬等18人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。
十五、委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。
十六、委員張雅琳等21人擬具「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案」案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:01 - 14:44:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1808.015 |
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1832.663 |
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好 我們現在開始開會初席委員已除法定人數現在開會本日議程為審查委員及黨團分別擬具人工生殖法部分條文修正草案總共16案現在介紹在場的委員陳昭志委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1837.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1858.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
陳慶威委員林業勤委員王振熙委員我們行政官員衛生福利部邱教授李建德次長吳釗鈞署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1865.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1880.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
法規會陳信成參事、法務部汪南鈞參事、內政部副政司副司長陳子和 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1884.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1905.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
施法院少年及家事廳廳長鍾玲法官郭耀明行政院信北平等會處長吳秀珍金融管理委員會保險局組長陳立軍 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1915.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1921.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
現在請提案委員說明提案的要旨每位委員兩分鐘謝衣鳯委員不來陳慶威委員說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1933.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1945.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
主席不好意思因為早上剛好王玉敏委員國民黨黨團都交代我就是講所有國民黨黨員黨團的提案所以議事人員可以幫我設定8分鐘嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1949.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1952.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
兩分鐘啦兩分鐘啦還是兩分鐘啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1970.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1990.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
拜託啦拜託啦這比較複雜好啦好啦謝謝你身體有沒有比較好各位委員各位官員大家早安我是陳菁惠委員也是陳菁惠醫師今天其實非常感慨會在這邊做這樣子的發言是因為這個禮拜衛福部我們也看到他有一個大轉彎 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1991.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2018.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
對我來說為什麼這麼多委員還有黨團會希望我幫他們說也是因為他們尊重臨床的經驗還有醫療的專業我身為一個醫師因為醫術所以大家並不會因為政黨傾向而不來看我所以我手上的病人有單女有單男有女女有男男同志有一夫一妻甚至有跨性別這些我都有接觸過 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2020.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2045.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
也沒有人說不定我覺得我觀察起來還是偏向支持民進黨的居多這些病人也很可愛有時候成功他們會跟我說好啦我下次要改投國民黨我還開玩笑我說我又不能站在你旁邊我也看不到啦但是都會恭喜他我們其實呢我在這邊因為很多病人他們會私底下不斷的傳簡訊給我所以我也會在這邊幫你們講出你們的心聲我知道你們希望我幫你講話 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2050.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2075.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那這幾天我接觸到幾個案例他們分別從很久以前就開始聯絡我有時候我也會打電話跟他們安慰一下因為他們從這個賴清德總統時任立委的時候就知道有提過代理運母後來第10屆我們現在本屆許許多多的委員也是有提出代理運母到衛福部的草案釋出的時候都在各大的報紙是頭版所以這些人攔起了一線希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2076.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2104.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
但是這個禮拜把他們從天堂重重的摔到地上甚至有人真的有憂鬱或是輕生的傾向我都有一一打電話去安慰他們有時候也真的沒有辦法太深入他們的感情因為我還是要保持一點醫療的專業但我還是跟大家分享一下為什麼我認為大家可以審慎的去討論所有這些人工生殖之前公布的草案是因為比如說南南同志 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2105.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2111.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案件 等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案件 等19人擬具⋯⋯ |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2120.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2121.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2141.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2160.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
此問題明明就是一個民生問題而且不分黨派的問題但我不知道為什麼最近卻變成一個政治議題所以我也在網路上安慰他們有這個先天五子宮的人他說他沒有他想要出來開記者會可是他沒有辦法他從小他父母就告訴他如果你揭露你先天五子宮你 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2160.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2161.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
等19人擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2177.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2178.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
一、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2195.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2212.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
但是這個禮拜的大轉彎讓這些人真的非常的痛苦因為他們不曉得他們到底是不是應該好那就存錢到國外去我也有病人他是流產了14次他生第一胎跟生第二胎都是靠代理孕母中間存錢是存了10年啊還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2215.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2228.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2245.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2269.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所以我覺得今天我們是在討論的是面臨臺灣未來的生態從1970年女生的生育年齡大概是在20到30但是到現在我們平均年齡已經拉到31、3231、32等等質詢的時候我也會提供一些數據給大家參考許許多多可能會影響到生育的這些良性的疾病也會在30到50歲之間發生所以這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2274.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2287.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及� |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2302.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2309.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第1次聯席會議：立法院第2次聯席會議：立法院第2次聯席會議：立法院第3次聯席會議：立法院第4次聯席會議：立法院第5次聯席會議：立法院第6次聯席會議：立法院第7次聯席會議：立法院第8次聯席會議：立法院第9次聯席會議：立法院第10次聯席會議：立法院第11次聯席會議：立法院第12次聯席會議：立法院第12次聯席會議：立法院第13次 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2320.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2333.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
大轉彎之後,我相信各位委員也有認識我們一個升職的世界上有名的教父,也同時是我們國策顧問。國策顧問在接受記者的電訪時表示說,代理母30年在台灣也辦了30多場的公聽會,經過30年時機成熟,應該要讓其立法。 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2342.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2369.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
當然針對女性團體擔心的勿用子宮問題可以用嚴格的法律來去規範規範脫鉤討論的話只會無疾而終原地踏步所以我也請主席可以在我們接下來好幾場會議都做一些公開的裁示因為其實面對執政黨的委員我只有很卑微的要求我希望大家可以有一個立場因為這些病人啊他有一個很重要的事就是他是不是要存錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2370.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2399.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
但是你們如果可以公開你們的立場的話他們可以決定他們趕快存捐趕快出國還是他們要等待你們的脫鉤那前幾天呢剛好王振旭委員就坐在我的對面然後旁邊還有廖瑋祥委員然後旁邊還有陳昭芝委員所以王振旭委員呢就安慰了陳昭芝委員因為他們兩個長期是癌症病友的好戰友也同時舉辦了非常多的公聽會王振旭委員也安慰了陳昭芝委員說我一定會幫你立轉法是吧王振旭委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2400.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2402.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
等19人擬具、「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2418.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2420.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2442.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2453.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
當然也是從賴清德總統時任委員我只是一個小小的醫學生說實在的現在反對的人說啊原來不知道單女不能懷孕沒有疾病馬上結束馬上結束謝謝謝謝謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2460.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2488.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
快結束了謝謝不好意思所以我也在這邊非常感謝衛福部的官員因為為什麼我們會提出這樣的草案也是因為許許多多不想跟的學者他們在這幾年都有被你們找去做專家會議還有出國考察請國外的專家過來等等的才列出這樣子的草案所以公務人員其實也非常的辛苦在這邊非常感謝大家之前草案提出來所有所有的貢獻謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2491.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2518.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
謝謝陳昭柱委員的說明。陳慶輝委員的說明。來,黃捷委員有在嗎?沒有。林宜瑾委員說明。煥雲委員沒有,不在。林柱英委員請說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2527.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2556.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
好 謝謝主席安排這一次的修法那我想其實社會上的社會大眾都非常關心那麼因為這個確實是一個現代大家所面臨同樣的問題那本席其實在這裡針對這個法令也曾經多次的提出質詢那包括過去在上一屆的時候我們也開過了相關的公聽會跟記者會沒錯這個議題全國都關注所以說我們更需要好好的把腳步放穩 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2557.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2560.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2577.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2588.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案﹚事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案﹚事由．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案﹚事由．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案﹚事由．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案﹚事由 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2595.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2613.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案件 等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案件 等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案件 等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案件 等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案件 等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案件 等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案件 等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案件 等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2624.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2639.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 案 但在代孕之前我們能不能先讓爭議較少的所謂單身女性或者是女性同性婚姻者他們能夠來進行自體的人工生殖 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2640.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2663.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我想在這個過程當中其實社會上從這幾天的意見我們看到所感受到的就是女性自體人工生殖的這個部分的法規的修正爭議是比較少的甚至於是沒有爭議甚至於是在上一屆我擔任立法委員的時候就已經有非常多的呼籲 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2664.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2687.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那麼來到這一屆這是朝野高度共識的部分我們是不是可以讓他先走我知道我的助理非常認真的幫我準備了這張A4這張A4也代表著年輕世代的孩子們他們希望在解決問題當中他們所陳述的所以我必須要念一下我相信後面我們衛藩的委員們他們會有更精闢的見解但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2691.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2704.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
我希望身為一個女性身為一個女性的立法委員我們來解決問題的時候是一步一步的向前而不要因為一次到位我再強調一次一次到位所產生的 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2706.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2722.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．審查立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2732.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2758.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
擬具因生育困難而因而必須可以使用人工生殖技術卻排除了同性配偶導致同性伴侶在生育權益上的不公平形成了法律上的不公平所以本席提出來的修正案主要就是在同性配偶納入人工生殖法的適用範圍讓同性配偶與異性配偶一樣合法的使用人工生殖技術現行的生育跟家庭的夢想 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2759.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2783.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
則不僅是憲法第7條保障的平等權,更是司法院釋字第748號解釋精神具體的一個落實。那麼我們當然也希望這次的修法後,女性同性配偶能夠透過專業的醫療技術完成生育計畫。然而由於生理跟技術上的差異,那麼現階段尚無法涵蓋男性 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2785.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2785.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2805.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2808.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
擬具、「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2839.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2844.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
三、委員台灣民眾黨說明請陳昭志委員代表說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2851.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2872.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
本席請代表民眾黨黨團對於人工生殖法修正草案提供說明。我同時也代表年輕時候的我。我是一個先天性子宮發育不全的病人,因我名字叫MRKH syndrome。我要代表眾多的病友以及對於代孕有需求的人來發聲。 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2874.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2893.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
我的手邊名單有上過上千位的名單包括需求者跟願意幫助別人的人1985年台灣誕生了第一個事管嬰兒讓無法自然生育但渴望有孩子的父母親看到了生命奇蹟的可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2894.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2922.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
2019年台灣通過同婚法案成為亞洲第一個將愛跟平等付諸實現的國家。時到今日婚姻跟生育這個定義早已經脫離傳統的框架而且是一場關乎愛選擇跟權利的旅程在這場旅程當中有人選擇收養有人則需要代孕這些選擇沒有高下之分 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2923.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2937.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
都是每個人不同的人生答案。這一句話是出現在2004年陳建仁署長為代孕舉行台灣第一次公民會議當中結論的一句。國家的責任不是替人民做選擇, |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2939.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2959.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1屆第2會期社 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2965.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2983.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
而是希望那些因為病痛、性別或其他困難無法自然生育的人能夠擁有一條合法安全的路在愛與責任的前提下我們推動利他代孕的適度設計讓所有願意幫助他人成全圓夢的女性 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2983.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2987.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第1次聯席會議．事由．立法院第1次聯席會議．事由．立法院第1次聯席會議．事由．立法院第1次聯席會議． |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3006.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3033.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
那些需要透過代孕來求子的伴侶承受了多少人的誤解跟冷漠但是他們仍然堅守對未來的希望他們的渴望值得被看到他們的聲音應該要被聽到有些人擔心代孕會引起犯罪甚至說出代孕通過後會有黑道把女性抓到診間讓她成為代理孕母趁機賺取暴利 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3035.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3053.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3054.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3063.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第1次聯席會議：事由：審查一、委員謝衣鳯等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第1次聯席會議：立法院第1次聯席會議：立法院第1次聯席會議：立法院第1次聯席會議：立法院第1次聯席會議：立法院第1次聯席會議：立法院第1次聯席會議：立法院第1次聯席會議：立法院第1次聯席會議：立法院第1次聯席會議：立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3083.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3098.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
有1位台灣人在美國代孕的孩子因為疫情等其他因素無法順利回台經歷重重的困難之後才終於一家團聚這樣的遺憾應該被制度改變不是再三通演 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3099.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3128.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案。」案。adequates the rights of single people and fellow citizens, which I also value very much.在我和民眾黨提出的人工生殖草案當中也藉由完整的規範。在我和民眾黨提出的人工生殖草案當中也藉由完整的規範。有人批評我是用單身、國人跟同志的人工生殖來綁架代孕。有人批評我是用單身、國人跟同志的人工生殖來綁架代孕。這是非常荒謬無忌的言論,因為一樣都是要透過人工生殖技術來達成。所以當然要併入人工生殖法案來一併處理。最後我想說的是, |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3130.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3142.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
將心比心,成全別人,追求幸福。這是人生的最高境界。將心比心,成全別人,追求幸福。這是人生的最高境界。謝謝主席。 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3163.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3183.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
謝謝主席。我的提案版本是支持將代理孕母制度與女童自配有單身女性生育權脫鉤處理。這也是今天衛福部提送委員會書面報導中的修法態度。那優先處理有共識爭議小的部分,並且讓上有許多疑慮, |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3184.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3192.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．審查一、委員陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．審查一、委員陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．審查一、委員陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．審查一、委員陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．審查一、委員陳菁徽等19 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3206.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3222.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
擬具〈生命安全以及身心健康、高強度、高風險的勞動過程〉,面對台灣如今的勞動環境,我們真的有足夠的自信說我們有能力保障代理孕母從懷孕到生產的各項權益嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3224.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3249.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
國民黨揚言如果要脫鉤處理代理孕母制度就不讓人工生殖法順利修正三讀我覺得我們如果真的重視女性權利我們就不該綁架單身女性跟女同志配偶的生育權讓我們坐下來好好討論法案不要把人民的權益當政治的攻防工具以上 謝謝好 謝謝林委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3255.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3257.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
接續請林業琴委員說明我國憲法第7條就已經接觸我國人民無分男女、宗教、種族、階級、黨派在法律上是一律平等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3275.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3297.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
在臺灣的確有世界上首屈一指的人工生殖技術但卻限定只給已婚夫婦作為不孕症的治療使用可是在不傷害第三人健康的前提下竟然不能給單身夫婦未婚的女性女同性配偶使用實在是有違我們的憲法接觸的平等原則並在國內 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3299.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3317.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人� |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3318.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3322.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案〉案〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉案〉 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3347.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3365.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案 》案。adequately,女性首次動卵的年齡逐年降低,人數逐年增加,但是整體的動卵率只有8.4%,這顯示制度不合一的限制未婚女性跟女童性配偶透過人工技術的 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3366.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3376.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案»案。adequate to the law. |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3376.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3383.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
我的版本事實上是同意單身女性還有同性配偶使用人工生殖技術。 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3386.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3414.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
但單身女性,同性配偶都是透過人工生殖技術用自己的身體、子宮去孕育下一代,無關乎其他女性的身體,無關乎其他女性的權益。而且生出來的孩子呢,自然要自己撫養。這個法律關係,單純我們相對的事上是放心。不過代理孕母用的是其他女性的子宮,把懷孕生產的風險交給其他女性去承擔,把健康的孩子可能會當作交易的商品, |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3414.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3414.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案〉案 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3426.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3449.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案〉案〉而全公約第三條也有規定,所有的關係關係到兒童的事務的時候,無論公私部門均應該優先考量兒童的最佳利益。並第七條也明示,兒童具有其身世之知情權,所以本席同步提出本法的人工生殖法的子女跟人工生殖細胞捐贈者親子關係要脫離,並 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3452.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3468.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3478.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3482.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案》案。netesa |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3500.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3513.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
所以本席主張擴大適用對象納入女同性配偶、未婚女性保障人工生殖、女子女的知情權。可是人工生殖跟代理運募應該要脫鉤。請各個委員來支持。謝謝。謝謝林宜瑾委員吳佩奕委員不在齁林淑芬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3532.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3560.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
主席各位大家早我先說明一下我的版本的這個提案說明就是說本法制定至今台灣的關係有很多台灣的婚姻關係多有變遷然後通過這個司法院施治第748號的解釋施行法同性婚姻合法化也增加了配偶關係的多元樣貌而為了使現行的人工生殖技術得一體適用於同性婚姻與單身女性不再受限於異性戀不孕夫妻 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3561.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3562.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3577.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3581.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
再加上很多的地方政府的補助越來越多的女性動亂然而動亂機構並沒有相關的法律規範所以在這個裡面涉及到取卵等醫療行為的風險同時也涉及到保存的費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3593.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3594.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉案〉案〉 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3608.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3615.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案 條文修正草案案 條文修正草案案 條文修正草案案 條文修正草案案 條文修正草案案 條文修正草案案 條文修正草案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3635.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3654.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
擬具:「對於得進行生殖細胞冷凍儲存的年齡要件、銷毀生殖細胞的事由等也要予以明定、以知明確。」這個是我們在這個大家都覺得生殖技術上要對業者有多一點的規範。但我們今天我今天還要再講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3655.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3669.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
擬具:「我的版本是沒有代理孕母的。」擬具:「我的版本是沒有代理孕母的。」擬具:「我的版本是沒有代理孕母的。」擬具:「我的版本是沒有代理孕母的。」擬具:「我的版本是沒有代理孕母的。」擬具:「我的版本是沒有代理孕母的。」擬具:「我的版本是沒有代理孕母的。」擬具:「我的版本是沒有代理孕母的。」擬具:「我的版本是沒有代理孕母的。」擬具:「我的版本是沒有代理孕母的。」擬具:「我的版本是沒有代理孕母的。」擬具:「我的版本是沒有代理孕母的。」擬具:「我的版本是沒有代理孕母的。」擬具:「我的版本是沒有代理孕母的。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3685.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3686.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
擬具20人擬具20人擬具20人擬具20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3703.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3705.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
只有20個人怎麼20個人討論出來的結論可以代表民意呢這個是當時他這麼說當時他為什麼這麼說因為因為會議還沒有開出還沒開然後他就先這樣講 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3718.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3722.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
媒體報導就是這樣講公民審議會議參加的人的確是20個而已而且是20年前而且這兩場相隔8年而且距離現在都一二十年 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3734.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3737.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
兩場會議20個人20年前已經沒有辦法反映現在的民意以少數民眾參與的形式進行討論絕對不能詮釋成多數人的共識而且當年這個議題的相關資訊已經很欠缺了我講的這些話我再把陳昭智委員就報導裡面講的再講一次他說 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3763.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3765.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
新聞報導陳昭志認為公民共識會議的20人根本不具公民代表性他指出藥品臨床試驗如果只有找20個人來做實驗一定不能代表母體實驗結果只能以個案認定自然科學都有這一類限制了 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3785.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3792.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
擬具〈社會科學的範圍更廣泛〉二十個人怎麼能夠代表台灣的公民的意見呢?這個都是媒體的報導。曾昭之委員繼續說:「就台灣2300萬的人口來講,二十人實在太少了。要說這些人的意見是公民共識, |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3803.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3816.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
科學基礎上站不住腳不足以說服大眾衛生署如果以20人的討論結果為政策依據將來出爐的草案怎麼在立法院說服看法不同的立委呢?言猶在耳 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3818.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3829.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
這一位陳委員現在提到了代理孕母言必稱2004、2012只有20個人參加的公民審議會議的結論是有社會共識的把公民審議會當20年前的公民審議會民調結果為推動立法的規念但在20年前你就不是這樣說的所以你要拿20個人參與的公民審議會拿出來當你推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3847.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3855.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
由上而下硬要塞給這個社會代理孕母的理由和藉口是站不住腳的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3858.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3881.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
我最後講歐洲23個國家大家講生理自主權、性別平等權站在世界最前面的歐洲有23個國家明文禁止代孕歐洲人難道沒有需求嗎?歐洲難道沒有人需求嗎?但是歐洲為什麼要明文禁止代孕?因為我們知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3883.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3900.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
這個子宮出租出借不是只有單純個人的事,窄化成個人的事,它是徹徹底底健康風險的轉嫁。而且現在你們假借的好,我們一起反對商業化的出租子宮,那麼我們要求利他代孕。 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3900.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3912.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．司法及法制委員及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．司法及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．司法及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．司法及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．司法及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案． |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3931.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3952.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
不要在這裡說收養的孩子不是你的夢想只有自己生的才是夢想對收養的孩子情何以堪每一個被收養的孩子他真的都是寶貝我們沈博洋委員就在示範一個最好的示範他把這一個孩子視為寶貝而且就是他們夫妻的夢想他們對待他他不會說他不會這樣講 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3958.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3978.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
所以不要想到自己的夢想而已。你有沒有做過兒童最佳權利的評估?兒童權利影響評估有沒有做過?沒有。這個制度實行下去以後對兒童的權利的影響評估你們沒有做對兒童的權利的影響是什麼?不知道。你只想到自己的夢想。 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3979.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3982.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
而做下去以後你們做性別平等的影響評估沒有!性平影響評估也沒有做!所以在這裡就是說我們由上而下由立委推動個人的意志然後就硬要摘給社會這個制度我們是想說希望可以脫鉤啦這是不同的概念不同的範球 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4001.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4019.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
兩個法規範的東西不一樣而代理育母試射到了社會的層次相當的廣、文化層次相當的廣生殖層次、健康風險也相當的廣不應該直接就跟這個人工生殖法綁在一起這不是一條法條、兩條法條、三條法條這麼簡單就可以約束和規範的 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4024.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4047.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
所以今天在這裡奉勸我們召委和其他的委員我們一定要讓他脫鉤不可以不可以憑你們幾個人個人的意志個人的想要然後就在這裡塞給全台灣這樣的一種什麼評估都沒有什麼權力影響都沒有做的一個代理運募就直接綁在一起通過謝謝謝謝林淑蓉委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4052.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4056.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
Reporter 郭玉琴等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案 長雅琳等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案 長雅琳等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 長雅琳等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 長雅琳等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 長雅琳等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 長雅琳等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 長雅琳等19人擬具:「人工 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4082.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4099.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
而從全體公約裡面明定了四大原則其中一個原則就是兒少最佳利益我聽了非常多的討論但是我們在兒少的影響性評估到底這件事情會不會對於孩子的影響是什麼現在是完全不清楚的 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4100.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4123.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
我覺得大人可以有自己想要生兒育女的夢想但是我們也同時必須在乎這個孩子出生之後他所受到的權利跟保障有沒有受影響例如我覺得最直接的一個利益就是說如果這個孩子有先天性疾患呢他會不會一出生之後就變成人球呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4125.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4143.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
此事我們在這個過程中並沒有聽到詳盡的討論如何去保障這個孩子出生之後即便是他是先天性疾病他還是可以去完整的有一個得到相對的保障然後呢我們現在討論的大部分都是在委託人、捐贈人、孕母本人、醫院及健康風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4145.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4170.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
我真的希望說當我們再把這件事情詳盡的討論之後確切的可以讓我們孩子有最佳的保障包含他的血源知識權他可以清楚的去追溯自己的血源這件事情都必須清楚的討論之後我覺得我們才有辦法去讓這個代理孕母有一個更完整的保障我們孩子的權利的一個方向我覺得這個現在呢在現行的階段一切都不明朗的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4170.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4189.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
擬具:「我自己的版本是先開放了單身女性和女同志家庭,因為自己的子宮自己的決定是依據一個身體自主權的概念。在我的提案第一條,我將不孕的夫妻跟正為不孕的配偶,這也是回應到我們現在的家庭樣態是非常多元的。再來就是說我們現在在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4191.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4213.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
在這個考慮到法律的一致性的時候呢衛福部現在是依據這個依司法院四字第七四八號解釋施行法第四條規定完成結婚登記之雙方那我的意思就是說考慮到原法一致性和適用性我也是表達尊重啦那後面其實我還增加了第二條將其定義為只接受人工生殖以 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4214.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4228.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4244.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4265.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
等到未來我們有更多更了解更完整的評估的時候我們再來進行修法那也希望說大家可以一起來支持我的版本那最後我還是想要再來強調就是說雖然大家一直不停的在講少子話說我們需要生小孩但這句話在我的耳裡聽起來我覺得是一直不停的把兒童變成一個商品一個工具 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4267.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4277.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
認為這是缺乏了兒童主體性的發言。我也希望未來我們不要再有這樣子的發言。我們可以尊重兒童作為權力的主體,而不是只是為了生兒育女的夢想。謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4293.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4299.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
那我們現在請衛務部邱部長來說明。那我們補充介紹我們食藥署莊署長。好,6分鐘。 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4308.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4335.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
主席、各位委員、女士先生今天大宴第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員第1次聯席會議、審查委員謝衣鳯等17人擬具、「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案。」案。委員陳菁徽等20人擬具、「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案。」案。委員黃捷等22人擬具、「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4335.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4336.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
擬具、「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案。」案。゚ ゚ |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4359.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4380.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉案,台灣民眾黨黨團擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉案,委員林烈群等17人擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉案,國民黨黨團擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉案,委員紅色蘭範園等21人擬具〈人工生殖法 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4380.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4403.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉 案、委員吳佩奕等18人擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉 案、委員林時芬等18人擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉 案、委員郭瑞琴等16人擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉 案、委員張雅琳等21人擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉 案、以下簡稱草案等16案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4404.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4419.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
本部呈要列席報告深感榮幸並就各委員所提修正草案僅提出參考意見,敬請各位委員不吝會議指教。首先說明,衛生福利部對於修正人工生殖法向來秉持廣大各方意見, |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4420.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4438.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
以持續溝通的態度,然考量社會各界對於今年5月初公告之《人工生殖法修正草案徵刑意見》期間所提出諸多建議,以及該法涉及國情倫理、婦女及兒童權益保障等諸多面向本部積極邀請。 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4440.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4465.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
各領域專家審訊嚴厲人工生殖法修正草案並尋法制作業程序並將提出行政案版之人工生殖法修正草案。大宴都會委員擬具人工生殖法部分條文修正草案本部意見綜合說明如下。建請各位委員考量。一、有關委員謝衣鳯等17人委員陳菁徽等20人委員王育敏等18人 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4467.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4495.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
臺灣民眾黨黨團及國民黨黨團擬具:「人工生殖法部分修正條文草案第五案。」除第二條未訂定代孕子女之定義恐生代孕子女親子關係相關法律解釋之餘例以外,草案第18條之二得對代孕者提供酬金恐有讓代孕傷害化、剝削弱勢婦女及買賣代孕子女之餘例,建請審酬。二、 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4496.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4518.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
考量子女最佳利益為民法親子篇中的與親子關係上最重要的原理及原則,甚至屬於憲法所保障的基本權利,並為國際兒童權利公益之重要保障項目,亦即應保障子女在穩固之環境上有良好發展身心之可能。 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4519.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4546.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
故授勢對象應先經評估,確認其符合職理最佳利益,才能實施人工生殖,為查各委員版本草案第11條或第11條之一人工生殖授勢對象之資格要件規定,並未有前述職理最佳利益之規範,建請考量。三、部份委員版本草案第23條人工生殖職理之法例地位規定將修正為配偶以節, |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4548.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4569.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
因民法之婚姻關係,系子夫妻之關係,配偶之夫或妻,而同慶當事人依司法院釋字第七四八號解釋施行法第二條規定,成立具有親密性及排他性之永久結合關係之雙方,以現行民法之所指婚姻關係或配合不同,故 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4571.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4589.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
部分草案內容恐未能涵蓋完成結婚登記之女同性伴侶。建議考量本部針對修法開放人工生殖法之適用對象包括單身女性同性配偶代孕生殖之研擬過程已召開兩場次公聽會與31次 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4593.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4618.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
擬具:「專家會議以及對外預告草案廣徵各界意見,為預告期間所收集600余則意見,約有八成反對代孕,近期民間團體及民眾持續表達反對代孕,而代孕生子涉及代孕子女、代孕孕母及委託代孕者三方之權利保障與衝突以及檢視國際禁止代孕之理由,細因難以 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4619.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4634.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員陳菁徽等19人� |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4643.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4650.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
等部陳大院各委員之指教及監督,在此靜置謝誠並期各位委員繼續予以支持。以上。 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4657.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4681.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
今天這個題目應該是好事啦應該是大家都很圓滿體貼跟愛護為我們下一代這有什麼好爭吵的啊奇怪欸女人跟女人的戰爭奇怪我們男孩子有點點啦人家在打仗我們下去插一腳齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4685.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4692.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
本次會議各項書面資料均列入紀錄刊登公報,現在開始巡打,做以下宣告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4704.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4726.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
本會委員審查時間因為有兩個會聯席的失望法制七分鐘列席委員四分鐘十點半截止法院登記委員如果有失明諮詢請於上會前提出預決不受理暫定十點半左右休息十分鐘依往例審查法案不處理臨時提案現在請登記第一位陳昭之委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4735.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4736.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
謝謝主席。有請邱部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4738.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4746.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
首先我要講的就是要批評指責別人先讀書先讀書以後再去批評指責別人什麼叫做公民會議這個是國家舉辦的公民會議公民會議是經過幾百人幾千人報名最後隨機取樣20位他們經過三天兩夜的課程做任何他們疑問的一個解答然後最後他們自己做討論做辯論提出建議案給國家做執政的參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4767.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4779.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
在2012年也同樣做過一次結論是一樣這是公民會議大家只提公民會議為什麼不談三次的國家公民會議吳宗津署長在現場他可以證明我現在手上就帶的就是民國99年、102年、103年的台灣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4783.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4797.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
擬具:「國家級的對於代孕的正式民調超過3000人有一定的方法跟嚴謹度。」擬具:「國家級的對於代孕的正式民調超過3000人有一定的方法跟嚴謹度。」擬具:「國家級的對於代孕的正式民調超過3000人有一定的方法跟嚴謹度。」擬具:「國家級的對於代孕的正式民調超過3000人有一定的方法跟嚴謹度。」擬具:「國家級的對於代孕的正式民調超過3000人有一定的方法跟嚴謹度。」擬具:「國家級的對於代孕的正式民調超過3000人有一定的方法跟嚴謹度。」擬具:「國家級的對於代孕的正式民調超過3000人有一定的方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4810.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4838.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
賴清德立委提出了《人工生殖法案》內容包括代孕連屬人包括蕭美琴副總統2020年吳秉瑞立委再次提出包含代孕的人工生殖法案連屬人都是現任的立委或是現任的官員如今民進黨主張切割代孕違背兩次國家公民會三次國家民調三次的國家民調治罹患適應症還是為反而反呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4840.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4853.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
很多綠營車役批評我陳昭芝變了,罵我背棄理想,但歷史斑斑呢?到底濁世驚飛的是誰?非常清楚是哪一個政黨在濁世驚飛? |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4855.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4872.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
啊?部長,你八個月的時候,你八月的時候還接受媒體專訪承諾,代理一母要加速解禁,而且這是重中之重,無法和人工生殖法切割。但是民進黨上禮拜一,這個禮拜一上午不過開了一二十分鐘的這個記者會。 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4874.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4898.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
下午衛福部立刻大轉彎馬上遵照民進黨衛環組的指示把代孕從人工生殖法脫鉤每個媒體問我的時候都說為什麼急轉彎為什麼急轉彎部長你要不要道歉你要不要對應解禁因應其判的不孕者及男男同志道歉部長你是得到關癌嗎你是衛福部部長還是民進黨的硬生蟲 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4904.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4927.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
你這樣失信於民。部長你回答。你講了話啊。你本來要講的,你現在變成這樣。好,保護委員。我想我們衛務部一向秉持著保護人民健康。我講你講你的話就好了。好。那我個人,大家也知道我是一個從事幾年來的醫藉老兵。我絕對站在,而且我這是照顧弱人。不然你就支持啊。你現在反過來了。你先道歉啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4931.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4945.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
不是,因為在一件事情的討論是由他一直討論嘛,如果是這件事情是...部長!部長!國健衛生署十幾年的版本都有代孕,一直到姓評委才去擋住!你不會比我更聰明啦!署長,吳署長站旁邊啦,他也不敢說我講的錯啦!我們一直努力在說起各方面的...這樣啦,你不要回答,我再問你下一句話,請問你對衛福部的同仁有沒有信心? |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4961.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4990.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
你對衛福部的同仁有沒有信心?我想衛福部的同仁都是...有沒有信心?你對你屬下的同仁有沒有信心?當然對他們的工作精神專業...好!你有信心喔!信心喔!好!為什麼我要問你有沒有信心?你擔任立委時也關心代孕法案甚至執行國健署署長代孕應該要儘速推行不要讓急於想當父母的人辛苦的東奔西跑甚至跑到柬埔寨 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4991.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5009.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
而且你在2017年5月13號臉書貼文說:「不運帶給不少婦女同胞許多壓力,讓我們非常的不捨。許多婦產科傳體亦贊同代理一母機制,在合乎倫理的原則下完善地規劃法規制度,以人文光牌帶給國人新生機。 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5010.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5036.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
部長,外部部經的預告草案難道不合倫理嗎?之前的草案難道不合倫理嗎?國建署同仁這20幾年來對代孕制度做了多少研究?開了多少會議?做了多少調查?做了多少會診?你知道他們要加班花多少時間嗎?他們做出來的結果,結果是有一套非常嚴謹跟完整的條文。民進黨一個不到20分鐘的記者會, |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5037.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5057.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
就把這20年來一群公務員累積的薪水全部推翻。你在踐踏我國文官的專業,浪費國家資產。部長,那就是政治霸凌專業。台灣人民看在眼裡,港大待遇人都看在眼裡。你在霸凌國建署。 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5061.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5075.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
五、委員吳國浩等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案﹑事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案﹑事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及生殖法部分條文修正草案案﹑事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及生殖法部分條文修正草案案﹑事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及生殖法部分條文修正草案案﹑事由﹎立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5077.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5103.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
在國人在有國家的法律保障的情況下去進行代孕現在卻有執政黨的立委跳出來說代孕的需求不會消失本來就是啊你保證你女兒不會沒有子宮嗎?不會生病嗎?人類賭博的需求也不會消失哇這種水準的立委人類各種成癮的樣貌也不會消失那這不代表我們要建立制度來應對 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5105.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5108.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我先回答前面的啦,我想我們的核心價值都一樣,一定是要解決全國人民各種 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5133.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5138.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員等19人擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案〉案 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5149.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5159.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5164.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5176.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
請回座。我在這裡要對所有期判代孕解禁的朋友說,尤其是不孕婦女跟男男同志喊話。民進黨說要代孕立專法脫鉤啦,這個說法不是第一次啦,那都騙人了啦,以脫代騙啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5181.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5193.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1次聯席會議．立法院第2次聯席會議．立法院第3次聯席會議．立法院第4次聯席會議．立法院第5次聯席會議．立法院第6次聯席會議．立法院第7次聯席會議．立法院第8次聯席會議．立法院第8次聯席會議．立法院第9次聯席會議．立法院第10次聯席會議．立法院第11次聯席會議．立法院第12次聯席會議．立法院第13次聯席會議．立法院第14次 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5195.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5222.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
請部長看看在右邊這些我有很多的資料那只看這張請問有網友問民進黨的沈博洋立委代孕在歐美行之有年請問委員想法是完全禁止還是有條件放行沈博洋的回答說完全反對意思就是說不管你法案這怎麼嚴謹剛剛很多人講一大堆我們好好完善討論怎麼嚴謹怎麼完善怎麼批評他就是反對到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5225.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5232.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
請問部長,你什麼時候提出專法?當你要擲轉彎的時候,你端法是不是同步提出來?你們沒有提出專法的時候,就是空口說白話! |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5239.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5255.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
拜訪委員,我想這個都是一個法條的修正,都是一個過程。我們先把有共識的先處理。你是要發生什麼事,我也並不處理你是誰羈押你,誰壓迫你做這個政治決定。反正對於主張不脫鉤的這個立委,我們會好好負責任來審這些法案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5256.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5283.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
反對代孕人最常拿小孩做藉口,小孩權益當理由。如果這些人這麼在意小孩的權益,那就應該支持代孕解禁啊。為什麼?剛剛我舉例啦,四年前林昶佐立委啊,就接到個陳情啊,因為台灣人在國外生小孩啊,因為有很多困難沒有辦法帶回來啊。這就是為什麼,因為台灣沒有辦法用法律、用安全來保障這個孩子嘛。你讓國人在國外受苦,他面對那麼多法律跟安全的不確定。 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5285.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5289.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
五、委員我想我們有其餘的部分我們一定會盡全力來促進社會的共識。就讓他在台灣出生,台灣來保護他。 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5298.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5314.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1屆第2會期社 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5326.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5341.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
然後醫師心理師說OK沒問題的時候又把他別人受精卵強迫把他植入他肚子裡嗎?否定是這樣嗎?然後強迫他懷孕時該把他生下來嗎?是這樣嗎?台灣有這樣的女性嗎?你的意思是說踐踏看不起所有的醫師心理諮商師嗎?而且剛剛談的都是犯罪行為欸。 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5350.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5374.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
難道代孕通過台灣就變成法外之地了嗎?就開始一堆人犯罪了嗎?是這樣嗎?會有一個女人會逼到診間去然後去執行代孕嗎?然後懷孕10個月嗎?會有這種人嗎?有基本判斷的東西都知道啦根本就是天方夜團把女人當笨蛋喔!難道全台灣只有民進黨女人有自主權嗎?其他的女性都沒有自主權嗎?他想要幫助別人不可以嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5377.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5397.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
這麼多領袖我手上有名單我手上有最多的名單副常科醫師也有最多的需求者我手上有最多的名單願意幫助願意成為代孕者這不就是他的自主權嗎我願意成為代孕者我願意幫助別人這就是他的自主權啊自主權啊部長右邊這個莉莉小姨就是台灣人 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5398.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5416.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
現在美國生活他自己有兩個小孩過去順利懷孕他在丈夫和孩子支持下去幫助一對不孕夫妻代孕他說這是一個非常有成就感很開心的事情因為可以幫助別人不然誰有成就感你們也說他剝削別人嗎他說他有成就感你硬要說他剝削別人嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5421.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5432.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
我等陳菁徽委員上來的時候他告訴你更多的科學證據所有大嶼媽媽你台灣擋了這麼久人家大嶼媽媽都已經有很多已經有幾百位幾千位的研究還有記得 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5433.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5460.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5462.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5467.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
人家已經前進到這個程度了,你還在討論開不開放,欸不要你的錢欸,自費欸!其他人不要罵我,今天就是我是在場唯一的病人,但是我不為自己,我早早就收養小孩,我收養小孩已經30歲了,為什麼我還在做一樣事?尊重每一個人的選擇,有人可以不要小孩,有人要收養小孩,有人要透過人工生殖技術, |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5488.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5492.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
拜託大家對我稍微言語不要太刻薄,我畢竟是病人。謝謝部長,請下台。謝謝主席。 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5515.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5518.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
謝謝陳委員 謝謝部長繼續我們請陳清威委員發言主席、委員我也想請部長辛苦了委員早好下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5542.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5563.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
今天有榮幸我有這個機會可以擔任這個職務我也非常希望可以認真負責的其實就秉持著專業還有臨床上的需求可以跟所有的委員一起和諧的討論覺得最近的新聞可能已經被操作的有點太過頭了人工生殖法不是只有代孕或是非代孕而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5564.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5565.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
等19人擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5579.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5595.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案»案。一、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案。一、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案。一、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案。一、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案。一、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案。一、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5597.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5599.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5627.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5632.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案件及其其他條文修正草案 案件及其其他條文修正草案 案件及其其他條文修正草案 案件及其其他條文修正草案 案件及其其他條文修正草案 案件及其其他條文修正草案 案件及其其其他條文修正草案 案件及其其其其其其其其其其其其其其其其其其其其其其其其其其其其 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5645.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5656.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
我知道衛福部許多的同仁在這方面付出了很多心力因為我常常是那一位需要去接待講英文的醫師或者是胚胎師還有生殖機構從外國來台灣給我們經驗的那個接待者 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5661.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5679.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
所以我知道衛福部有多用心從多久以前我們就已經請我們這邊的專業人員到美國或是英國或是加拿大或者是澳洲去考察人家是怎麼樣用法條去落實去保障所有的人的權益這些都是我在在經歷過的 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5680.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5693.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
今天我當然就像我一開始提案說明講的我最擔心最擔心的事情是這一群人他是等得遙遙無期我也希望在我們這一屆給人家一個答案不管這個答案是什麼沒有討論不是民主至少是我們在這個委員會的殿堂我們每個人都代表很多民意嘛一定也會有反對的人一定會有贊成的人一定會知道有需求的人當我們討論出來有一個結論我們讓這些人 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5709.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5711.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5725.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5727.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
等19人擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5751.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5754.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
等19人擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉案 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5769.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5797.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
當我有跟林宜瑾委員分享現在還有子宮移植的手術全世界已經成功130例那這個第一個做的這個教授他禮拜二才來我們立法院參觀他跟我們暢談講我們的修法過程也分享他們瑞典的修法過程也分享他們瑞典即將應該也會開始做這個代理孕母但是他子宮移植手術已經誕下10個健康的寶寶不管是成功率、活產率都到90%以上就是第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5798.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5816.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
到底有沒有要幫助這些人用什麼方法幫助其實他可以幫助的方法現在就是攤在這邊嘛我已經講了嘛第一你有沒有要幫助所有想要為台灣生育的人來做生育第一有沒有想第二如果沒有我希望可以盡快告訴人家 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5817.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5841.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
如果這一屆沒有我當然那天我是覺得很難過因為陳昭智委員去跟王振旭委員說我們一起為癌友奮戰這麼多年可是你為什麼不同情我的狀況那王振旭委員說沒有沒有我們會立一個轉法但是現場所有的委員又有誰知道自己的下一屆還在這個地方呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5841.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5843.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文宜瑾等19人擬具:「 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5856.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5859.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉案 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5872.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5890.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
或黃仁勛等19人擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案〉案。他們都認為說幫助他們的員工所有的員工不分性傾向去成立家庭甚至補助代理母這個是讓他們留才或是達到人才永續很大很大的一個指標啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5891.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5913.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
所以這件事情我相信部長你可能不知道但是因為我們跟國建署相處非常非常久我知道國建署署長在這方面所花的心力真的很很多很多而且他們考察的機構讀的paper全世界的literature全部review他們是非常嚴謹的在做這樣子的決定的部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5916.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5933.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
你可以承諾說可不可以在您的任內可以至少做一個決定嗎?到底是專法?幾時之內推出專法?或者是就不要做了?台灣目前的民情還沒有辦法達到共識總之你總要給人家一個答案嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5935.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5950.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
八、委員齁,那我想你提的都是心情,我們都站在一個醫者情懷,我們都了解。對阿,你也提到過阿。那當然在,可是在法令的一個設定裡面真的是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5951.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5957.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5976.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6000.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
檢測檢測檢測檢測檢測檢測檢測檢測 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6002.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6029.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
同意所以當我們如果未來我們的確要先把有共識的地方通過的話我也希望我們可以用專業的不管我們是委員或者是我們是官員我們都可以很清楚的跟大家表明說也許有一部分的人是沒有辦法適用的這樣子好嗎?如果有社會共識我每天願意為所有的人民做應該做的事情那你多久可以有社會共識? |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6030.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6036.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
三、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6047.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6062.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6071.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6073.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
有或是沒有他各自可能會帶來什麼後續的隱身的問題?署長你有想法嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6080.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6103.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
謝謝主席,也謝謝委員的關心。我想知悉權是兒童權益公約裡面的規範,也是應該要說保障的。但是在監證者,我們如果事先設計了他有同意讓未來能夠知悉的話,那後端在兒童到成年以後追溯,也可以在某一些情況下,那麼徵求當初監證者同意的情況下,我想我們為現在這個法案的設計裡面來講,就是有雙軌的這樣的方式。 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6107.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6112.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
所以您未來將來提出來的會是雙軌制目前的設計上是這樣對這個會跟美國有點類似是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6116.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6144.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
原則上就是尊重雙方,監證者必須要先同意,那後來尋求知悉的人也要爭取要同意以後才會讓他們這個相認、知道。再來,這次您的代理孕母草案雖然您已經切斷了,但是您在上面其實有嚴格的限制植入胚胎的科數。那我有看到其他委員的版本,在前半段也有講到說,當然你非常保護代理孕母,我覺得這個非常非常的好, |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6144.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6146.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6160.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6173.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6182.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6203.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
謝謝孫委員的關心,其實我們這個部分已經在納入現在版本的草案裡面的一些規範當中,那過去沒有的話我們在人工生物補助的時候有一些限制。有,有,但是那個補助因為沒有到非常的嚴格嘛,所以其實已經下降了不少多包胎,但是沒有辦法全部啦。那最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6205.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6223.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
最後呢也有委員提出這個版本那當然我會希望說我們讓醫學回歸到醫學我看到有一些執政黨的委員他希望捐贈年齡可以下修到18歲可是其實我在這邊要救醫學還有我詢問過非常多醫學會他們的看法我們這個都是國建署你們自己的途徑 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6224.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6239.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6248.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6271.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
我想這個未來如果有行政版本那版本目前我們超越的是以20歲為限那時候是在大家來做相關的討論所以您也認為其實不需要下修是嗎我覺得這個要關於這個專業的一些討論那我們之後我們在一起在主條的時候更專業的討論最後是一個許許多多醫師他會面臨到的問題因為現在呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6277.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6287.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
統計數據因為現在剛有講到說醫療性動亂或是社會性動亂越來越多但他並沒有登入到全部都登入到我們的系統這個您未來也會堅持是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6290.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6313.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
這個計畫已經我們草擬了那準備抱怨因為未來對於臨床者要做醫學研究其實這方面也是非常重要的最後也希望在這個銷毀生殖細胞可以有更多更多的規範因為在臨床食物操作上你會發現說當你聯絡不到這個人的時候你怎麼樣就是聯絡不到不管是寄這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6314.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6335.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
有些政治機構聽說是寄存證信函或是打電話或是寄平信都聯絡不到這個人的時候這個時候你不知道是不是要銷毀因為有非常多的狀況也希望未來都可以跟署長做交流那之後希望您可以再把執法定得更詳細一點可以讓實際的操作者都可以有方法可以依循可以嗎這個沒問題沒問題好 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6340.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6343.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
那就這樣,謝謝部長、謝謝署長。好,謝謝陳卿衛、謝謝部長。來,繼續請林宜瑾委員發言。問大家報告,廖偉祥委員發言後,我們休息10分鐘。 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6378.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6379.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
指揮有請部長跟署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6389.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6411.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
市長,過去有人工生殖法主要事實上是為了患有不孕症或疾病的夫婦所以過去人工生殖就是我們民間所慣稱的私管嬰兒那臺灣的確有領先的技術可是也因為涉及到倫理安全保護這個技術一直限定在醫學的治療上使用並且 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6412.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6414.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
擬具第3人擬具第3人擬具第3人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6443.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6452.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6472.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6489.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
持續表達像禮拜二就有人開記者會反對代孕所以請問另外兩個開放選項未婚女性跟女同性配偶各自贊成跟反對的比率有多少?部長這個是不是請署長幫忙回應一下這個目前在上一次的調查裡面並沒有把它個別來做調查為什麼沒有個別做調查? |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6499.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6523.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
因為那整體600多件裡面來講,80%都是反對,那其他的數目就不會太多。就是那個法案公告我們收回來的600多件的意見裡面,那麼反對的大概有80%多。我講的是,你講的是反對未婚女性跟女童性沒有嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6525.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6533.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
除了這個以外另外有一個其他人那其他的他就不會有這個所以我們這兩個數目就不會太多件數就不會太多 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6536.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6539.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
等19人擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6557.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6571.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案»案。netesle等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案»案。netesle等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案»案。netesle等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案»案。נס |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6584.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6608.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
我們礙於法令規定我們的整體因為礙於法令規定不能使用所以整體的凍卵節凍率只有8.4%所以想問部長這邊台灣女性不想結婚但想生個孩子生產風險自己承擔沒有涉及到第三人不侵犯到第三人的權益的時候衛福部支持未婚女性開放使用人工生殖嗎想再度的跟你們再確認 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6613.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6632.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
透過版就有了。透過版就有了。透過版就有了。目前透過的版本就有了。我想現在新的透過的版本裡面就有這樣的保護。好,那一樣再跟你確認,一樣是自己的孩子自己生的問題,衛福部支持女同性配偶開放使用人工生殖嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6634.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6663.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
指出通過版就有這樣的條文所以本席認為成年女性自主決定自己承擔生育風險只要不傷害他人的權益的話健康沒有爭議可是因為不孕或不想懷孕而要找人代孕則很有爭議所以本席認為衛福部輕忽這件事情的社會衝擊所以衛福部5月16號預告的人工生殖法要開放正義的代理孕母 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6663.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6687.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
十二月二號吳昭君署長再一次信誓旦旦地表示沒有特別立場,這案子有能力管理嗎?所以想問一下署長你有能力管理嗎?我想我們從五月預告那也是大家一起決定,那個原理當中就是草案,草案就還沒有最終決定版本。 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6690.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6716.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
請問代理孕母是所生的孩子的生母但不是法律上的媽媽而委託代孕的人不是親生父母但是為法律擬製的爸媽這個孩子跟偷抱來的孩子在法律上的差別為何?我們在法規的設計上就是經過了相關的評估以後最後如果委託代理孕母那出來的小孩就是適同這個委託者的婚生子女 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6717.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6724.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
除了孩子之外,孕婦代替懷孕的法律行為是不是等同於租借子宮?這個我想就是剛剛提到的,到底是認定我們認為他就是被這個受託者的代理孕婦的一個主體。所以很多東西就是講不清楚嗎?所以為什麼我們會要代理孕婦來脫鉤處理?剛剛陳金輝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6748.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6763.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案﹚立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及生殖法部分條文修正草案案案﹚立法院陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案﹚立法院陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案﹚立法院陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案﹚立法院陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案﹚立法院陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6777.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6781.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
等19人擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6795.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6821.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
為服務有能力去處理這些因為生產不順利或有後遺症所牽扯到的不履行契約、契約標的瑕疵跟毀棄契約的糾紛嗎?先請署長回答。這個委託契約必須要經過法案的公證以後才能夠生效。當初你們版本有處理這些事情嗎?在我們的草案裡面的確是有寫。 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6823.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6844.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
數字寫得清楚嗎?夠保障到我現在列的這些問題都能夠解決嗎?我講這個都可以討論。那有可以討論,那你5月16號、12月2號還是再度的講說...那應該還沒有決定啊。那我不知道衛福部可不可以去說服偏鄉的老人家阿婆幫女兒生孫是科學技術不違背倫理嗎?署長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6849.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6855.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
我們這個在涉及法律的時候不會去做這個案的啊這個案的話這個是假設性的議題啊這時候必須要專列的評估以後才能決定啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6866.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6867.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
委員林宜瑾等19人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6884.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6912.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
擬具:「法是一部管技術的法律,可是今天這個職工的背後是人誒,是人誒,所以不能好好處理過於複雜的法律關係的話,會不會更是沒有能力去管理技術背後所產生的社會爭議,既然沒有能力管理,你們憑什麼要開放代理義務,這個由第三人承擔風險的選項,這個就是我不太理解的地方,5月16號去公告,那結果呢,這麼多人反對,你們12月2號還是再度的這樣子, |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6913.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6935.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉案所以今天本席為觀測保護的目的而提出的草案版本是保護的主體是人工生殖的子女跟瘦數人跟生殖細胞的捐贈人跟社會事實上是多數是有共識的可惜我們現在還沒有看到我們的衛福部的版本送進來所以我們很希望能夠儘速的送進來還是要再度的重申要脫鉤 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6943.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6957.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
所以我在這邊再度的提醒就是希望最後能夠擴大適用對象納入我們的女同性配偶未婚的女性還保障保障人工生殖子女的知情權還要人工生殖跟代理孕母要脫鉤 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6962.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6974.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
林宜瑾委員因為您剛有講到我所以我也跟您稍微說一下您剛很在意第三人懷孕這件事情但是在許多執政黨委員的版本裡面有一個A卵B懷 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6975.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6990.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第12會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第12會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第12會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第12會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6995.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7000.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案件事宜、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案件事宜〉案件事宜〉 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7007.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7023.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1次聯席會議．立法院第2次聯席會議．立法院第2次聯席會議．立法院第3次聯席會議．立法院第4次聯席會議．立法院第5次聯席會議．立法院第6次聯席會議．立法院第7次聯席會議．立法院第8次聯席會議．立法院第9次聯席會議．立法院第10次聯席會議．立法院第11次聯席會議．立法院第12次聯席會議．立法院第13次聯席會議．立法院第14次 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7036.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7051.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
不是因為您剛有講我的名字對對我講原因我是講原因每一次每一個委員講完都可以這樣不是我在講原因那我覺得今天好那怎麼等於在代理主席的時候可以對於委員下來的時候去針對我只是問你說欸你剛剛有提案說啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7065.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7090.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
報告主席,所有的委員發言,我們要尊重所有的委員。沒有,我很尊重,尊重每一個委員的發言。就真的在玩雞阿,來往我執行阿,來,謝謝,部長部長還有署長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7094.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7100.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
我們請蘇慶璇委員我們一定是尊重所有委員的發言然後你同不同意大家看法還是你的事請部長 謝謝 請署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7106.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7108.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
主席主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7125.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7141.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
那個時候也是非常擔心說會有商業啦會有金錢上的誘因啦什麼所以到最後就很嚴格就是五等七年內才可以所以五等七年以後就後來後來 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7143.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7166.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及生殖 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7169.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7188.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案� |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7191.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7196.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7208.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7224.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7225.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7240.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文宜瑾等19人擬具:「 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7254.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7282.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
我們屏東縣每年 我小的時候我們屏東縣一年生一萬四千、一萬五千個小孩捏啊你覺得他現在生幾個?生三千幾個啦?四千個?尾數都不夠啊啊我屏東縣去年2023年過世了多少人你知道嗎?九千五百多個然後生出來想要整四千兩百個 連一半都不到啊這個下去就整四、六六啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7283.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7312.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案。」案。所以可以檢查當然說小孩子權利什麼什麼都有然後我們全部都尊重但是現在生13萬個小孩然後過世一年20萬以上一年缺口就7萬現在整個勞動部都在幹嘛都在那邊引進外籍的技術人員啊看護啊一直留 留到後來變成管家啦那什麼 普通人力嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7313.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7316.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
然後非法的移工也睜一隻眼閉一隻眼嘛,因為什麼?都沒人啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7320.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7342.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第2會期社 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7345.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7354.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
我覺得好像一群在維吾爾陳奧茲委員跟維吾爾陳秦威委員然後衛務部也加入維吾爾的行列有必要這樣嗎?連賴清德連蕭美琴副總統他們以前都同意他們以前都鼓勵到現在就只好總統副總統出來講講話吧有那麼嚴重嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7372.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7381.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文� |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7401.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7423.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
但是男男現在這一次的法有沒有講到男男要怎麼生下來?沒有。單身的女性他要生他有自主權,還有女女他要的話也是剛剛講的那種監軍的方式嘛對不對?不過現在監軍是一定要知道來源是誰有沒有健康要做檢查有沒有這樣規定? |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7425.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7451.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
公安報告現在的法規裡面漸漸是匿名的但是要漸漸一定要做事先的評估所以還是要對這個Donor做嚴格的身體檢查還有心理評估等等那他捐給誰知道嗎?不知道目前是不知道但是要執行這個手術的時候人工生殖機構必須要有一個查詢機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7452.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7466.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第1次聯席會議：立法院第2次聯席會議：立法院第3次聯席會議：立法院第4次聯席會議：立法院第5次聯席會議：立法院第6次聯席會議：立法院第7次聯席會議：立法院第8次聯席會議：立法院第9次聯席會議：立法院第10次聯席會議：立法院第11次聯席會議：立法院第12次聯席會議：立法院第13次聯席會議：立法院第14次聯席會議：立法院第15次 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7475.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7484.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
美國 我知道美國是美國說建金你的金從要拿去要離開1000公里以上有這個規定嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7487.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7514.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
我們那個建建以後查選是只能兼的一個所以第二個他就不會被同意了就會被人提出所以只能兼一個是現在嘛我以為一個人可以分五六個那還得了好所以我要幫他報告就是說子宮有問題的人很多然後跑到國外去我們知道一些站檯面上的很多人都跑到國外去 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7516.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7533.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
指名指名就不好意思啦齁那領養我對領養有很concern因為領養我去跟他跟他吹出來齁失敗率解除領養關係50幾%所以不要想說領養齁所以每一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7535.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7555.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
五、委員黃淑穎等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案件,並擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案件,並擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案件,並擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案件,並擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案件,並擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案件,並擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案件,並擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案件,並擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7559.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7579.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
此者有一個,夫妻代替有一個人的DNA,精子、卵子不管,有一個,這樣他也覺得有踏實感,他也覺得是自己的孩子,所以這個是,我不管你怎麼做啦,好事啦,我都總贊成啦。要脫鉤,你要立專法,請問你是要立專法還是修改人工生殖法?普通,你再立一個專法很懶的耶。 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7587.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7602.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
現在的方向先脫鉤就是說先有共識的先處理嘛,讓那些單身女性、女性同性的這個部分有一個可以用人工生殖法來處理,這個比較爭議的 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7605.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7630.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
我們現在再來尋求社會共識,還可以尋求大家的共識嗎?當然我們在法案、倫理各方面的文獻其實都收集很多,再來就是社會的共識。社會的共識怎麼可以有共識,當然我們可以繼續來努力。我是覺得人工生殖法修就好,修法比較簡單,你要立一個專法很困難,尤其像這樣朝野現在的氛圍。 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7631.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7633.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7655.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7656.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
等19人擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7685.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7691.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
接下來我們請廖偉祥委員質詢。廖偉祥委員質詢後休息10分鐘。謝謝主席。有請我們的部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7712.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7721.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
請部長謝謝六人好部長你好我想要先請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7722.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7744.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
另一個議題,前天12月3號的時候是檳榔防治日那衛福部也預告宣布說年底前要預告這個檳榔危害防治法的草案那當然就你們衛福部的立場的態度就是要對於這個被列為國際癌症研究機構IARC證實的第一類致癌 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7745.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7763.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7775.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7785.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
那個前面幾年當中當然也一直在溝通啦那監察院也一直有請衛福部去說明甚至到達比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7788.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7795.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7816.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7817.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7823.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7846.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
那也可以也有一個事實從110年的癌症登記的報告顯示吃檳榔有高度相關的口腔癌大約有九成是有吃檳榔的習慣那也是臺灣十大癌症的第六名個案數每一年有八千多人次那其中超過九成是男性有七千四百人左右並且口腔癌的死亡率也非常高 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7847.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7854.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7859.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7876.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7884.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7897.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7898.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7922.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
好,謝謝。謝謝委員。我想我們先把我們要考慮到的那當然福福民情、減緩社會衝擊的部分分四個方面來進行規範。那這個預告以後也徵求大家的意見。除了這個以外,其實我們也一直在輔導農業種植者,也提出了...那這輔導很久啦,這是農業補主責的啊。這跟你有什麼關係?你是為了人民健康吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7922.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7943.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
那就是我們要跟農業部一起同行吧,變成這件事情做得更周全啦。跟委員報告我...所以這個議題也是所謂的這個叫做什麼社會...我照顧很多口腔癌的病人。對,所以我想你應該很清楚。其實我是照顧末期,那真的是生活品質,可以說是所有癌症裡面。 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7944.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7957.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境．事由．立法院陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院陳菁徽等19人擬具:「 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7963.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7988.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
因為你們現在檳榔專法好像以學校跟兒校場所為重點管理對象那當然包含也參考現行的這個煙害防治法不應該販售給未成年檳榔喔可是部長我覺得這個不能販售給未成年及禁止進入校園這不是本來就應該做的嗎可是我也想要問說你只針對這個部分那你有看過幼兒園的小朋友吃檳榔嗎還是國小生吃檳榔 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7989.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8008.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
因為我覺得如果是真心有要達到健康台灣的政策不是應該是針對主要食用的人口去做管制嗎?或者是行為的改變嗎?那我覺得這部檳榔專法看起來就是不是為德不足,其實就是打假球看似好像有管制,實際上卻是無為而治那從數據上看起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8010.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8024.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
是哪些年齡層才會開始吃檳榔啊所以部長我想你也長期照顧喔國人健康不能等啊那對於管制這個檳榔的事情不能再駝鳥型態為什麼好像做半吊子根本沒有在管啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8025.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8048.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
好,謝謝委員的指教。我想委員的建議非常的重要。我們會,例如在這個草案的過程當中,來增加這樣的一個討論的一個主題。希望能夠更有效的來,真的來減少我們口腔癌罹患的危險。對,因為你冰浪也是吃到嘴巴的東西喔。所以目前法規上、法制上有的漏洞還不算,其實食品安全也要顧慮嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8049.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8051.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
二、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．審查�� |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8071.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8081.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
對部長我跟你報告一下俗稱的倒吊子其實每200顆檳榔裡面就會出現少數反過來頭下尾上的這種倒著生的檳榔就是倒吊子啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8082.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8098.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
其中他們都會含一般的檳榔兩倍以上的這種檳榔鹼會讓他很興奮甚至有時候過度興奮會休克所以倒吊子也被稱成這個土產搖頭丸那歷年來也都有很多人吃了之後就不小心發生了生命的危害 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8099.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8126.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
所以我想要問一下部長那這樣子到底要怎麼處理啊?我們總不能開放一種產品然後就告訴大家說暴斃是機率的問題啊吃檳榔跟在玩這個俄羅斯輪盤一樣這種高風險我們能夠接受嗎?那部長遇到這個事要怎麼做?我們其中有一個面向就是查核跟檢驗檳榔還有它的顏料啦如果說我們這個都可以台討論看看我們現在是當然是避免它重金屬這方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8127.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8151.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
部長可是顯然你的這個知識是有一個很大的落差喔農業部的農業知識入口網站也告訴大家稻釣子是沒有辦法處理的問題喔它是機率問題也沒有辦法在採收的時候剔除所以部長你剛剛所謂的檢驗到底要怎麼做啊這問題也是很嚴重的對吧這個應該是要專業來處理市面上流通這麼多檳榔你怎麼有辦法找到每個稻釣子在出現在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8152.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8175.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
我們當然也可以從源頭方面來管控不是啊剛剛已經說了農業部入口網站就說沒辦法沒辦法處理啊源頭也沒辦法也沒辦法剔除啊部長所以你這部分是不是應該回去再研究一下你再專法出現前應該要很清楚知道這個這樣的風險吧聽起來你好像也不曉得倒掉子是什麼問題我想我們會請業務單位在這個方面特別來注意看看有沒有辦法來 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8176.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8204.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
所以部長大家都知道檳榔的危害我想要建議的是說你們是不是應該要針對食用人口進行調查也透過政策去引導使用者的行為轉變讓國人徹底擺脫檳榔的危害部長我想有很多人你應該也治療過很多這個口腔癌的病患他當然還沒得癌之前他可能會覺得說你禁止他吃他很不爽可是他得了癌之後他如果康復了他是不是他得了癌之後他是沒辦法後悔的對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8206.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8232.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
幾乎是沒辦法後悔的那很多人真的復癌就是手術過後變好了之後他才開始不吃這些東西所以我認為部長你不可以說因為這種選票的考量你應該要秉持你的專業而且秉持這個衛福部長你人心人數過去的這個精神你明明知道源頭是怎麼處理你就應該從源頭開始下手讓這些人不要到了後悔才來不及啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8232.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8244.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
好,我想這個是我們要努力的方向對於risk factor危險因素任何癌症的危險因素我們都要先來去除只是說在考慮到民情跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8245.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8251.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8268.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8288.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
有部分的民進黨的委員認為部長的立場偏向代孕不脫鉤,導致對立相當大,那也在質詢台上多次抨擊你。那現在部長卻有所本來就有兩個版本,然後要改成改脫鉤的那個版本。為什麼?還是想問一下到底為什麼讓你有所轉變啊?因為10月份的時候衛環委員會應該也討論過這一題,那你當時你們也在捍衛原來的版本。 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8293.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8302.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
總不到兩個月政策大轉彎,請問這一項是受到什麼樣的壓力嗎?還是剛剛提到跟這個檳榔專法有很多類似的是選票考量嗎?還是什麼的問題? |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8303.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8325.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
我想衛福部沒有什麼選票考量,我們就是專業認真執行。是啊,我們覺得你應該秉持專業嘛,對不對?所以有關這個代孕的部分剛也很多人提到啊,其實過去早在...我想早上委員也應該可以看到兩邊的一個提案者多麼激烈的爭辯,所以這就是一個真的分歧非常大,如果我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8327.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8349.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
所以我也是想要呼籲一下剛剛我們很溫暖的蘇清泉召委我覺得他剛剛講的是很溫暖這其實是一個在很民生然後很幫助可能是在幫助解決很多病患或者是有需求的人不應該是這種劍拔弩張的感覺我看剛剛我們陳菁輝委員代理主席也是很溫和的在講很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8350.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8352.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
擬具、「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8380.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8385.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9068.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9070.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
好,我們現在繼續開會,我們請黃秀芳委員質詢。謝謝主席,我們請部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9085.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9091.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
五、委員黃昭蕙等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案。」案。五、委員黃昭蕙等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9102.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9106.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
三、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉案 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9127.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9156.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
如果就是說假設我們要修這個人工生殖法然後走向開放代理孕母如果這個是假設性的那在衛福部的討論當中是不是有這個代孕者的相關配套措施那我們知道就是說在其他國家譬如說美國、加州為例那他們有意擔任代理孕母的人通常會向代孕仲介提出申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9158.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9182.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
接受身心評估確定是否適任提出申請的時候會續名是不是接受檢胎、墮胎、產後是不是願意跟委託的家庭保持聯繫我想請教就是說如果假設我們修這個人工生殖法走向開放代理孕母有沒有這樣的一個措施可以執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9183.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9207.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
好,謝謝黃昭薇這麼精闢的一個了解跟問題,然後想國建署可以召開的公聽會,還有可以說無四次的專家會議我當時在擔任議事公會理事長的時候,我都有特別指派精兵去參加這個國建署的會議,希望去提供專業的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9208.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9216.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9236.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9244.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案件及其他條文修正草案 案件及其他條文修正草案 案件及其他條文修正草案 案件及其他條文修正草案 案件及其他條文修正草案 案件及其他條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9261.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9288.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
那這個都是大家我是認為我們法律盡量去完備那大家可以盡力來討論如果不完備的地方那當然未來如果朝專法也好或者另外請相關的處理方式也好也謝謝委員大家給我們我們都希望它更完備所以署長所以你的意思是說以目前這個人工生殖法的部分其實它的我剛剛講的那幾項其實還不是那麼的完備是嗎我們是有做了相關多的設計是 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9289.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9293.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員等19人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9295.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9299.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
一、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9319.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9322.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
等19人擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9339.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9346.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9364.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9385.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
剛剛提到的我們在這個設計裡面來講其實是對剛剛提到的相關的一些企業那相關的一些身體自主錢、兒女自息錢還有剛剛提到的特別是有關利他的這樣的一個方式那未來這樣的機構我們是設定在公益法人機構來做相關的一些服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9386.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9410.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
那有關剛剛中間的環委錢或者是中間的這些自主錢都有在法律上希望能夠有一些幫忙跟協助就是有一些規範。那署長我想請教就是說我們要立這一部法其實這個關於就是說我們這個在法令上的協助你們有跟法務部這邊有做一個討論嗎?或者是只有你們衛福部這邊自己內部的一個討論? |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9412.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9433.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
對於過去的這些二、三十次的相關的一些專家會議討論,那我們都有邀司法院、內政、那個法務部啦,都有相關的團體,包括一些公益團體都有來參與這樣的研討。好,那另外我想請教齁,就是說你們在草案當中齁,就是說你有提到一個代孕價格換算約為一百萬。好,這、這個…… |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9437.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9462.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
這個是媒體換算的而且沒有問過我們所以這個100萬如何算的對所以我想問一下媒體自己算的不是我們算的不是你們自己放出來的嗎沒有沒有那個是媒體自己寫的冠上衛福部的我們的護藥署的副署長的名字那是我們後來有跟這個媒體有抗議過那也就有向外來修正他並沒有問到我們這樣的一個評估記者 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9464.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9467.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
三、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9484.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9503.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
昨天媒體是說100萬,那你說這個不是你們講的,那未來可能有一個對價嗎?多少價格?可能就是剛剛講的營養費,或者是可能他的工作損失的這個費用,那這個財務上的這個保障是由誰來保障? |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9504.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9530.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
所以我們目前草案的設定裡面來講必須要成立一個信託專務來做處理所以這個委託者必須要把這些相關的兩方談好的這些利他的包括剛剛說的行政、諮詢、營養、檢查、生意、作業制還有工作的損失等等大家有一個合以後的把這筆檢討請到信託裡面去處理所以你們也有跟信託工會或者是集團會這邊有做討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9533.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9554.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
接下來我再請教一個問題就是說其實在坊間一般的民眾會覺得會有道德上的風險也許他可能是受到這個女性可能也許受到家庭的壓力或者是他這個女性可能是經濟弱勢那不得不來從事這樣的一個代理 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9554.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9561.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9574.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9586.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案件事宜瑾等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案件事宜瑾等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案件事宜瑾等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案件事宜瑾等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案件事宜瑾等19人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9602.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9626.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
跟委員報告一下,因為其實剛剛提到道德是很難用法律來做規範。有一些事情它是道德上的問題,但是我們在這個涉及,為什麼我們剛剛提到道德,在討論說是不是現等、輕等,其實現在現等就會剛剛委員所說的,在我的看法,它就會很容易淪入到家庭的一個倫理的壓迫的一些問題,或者被迫性的一些問題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9626.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9641.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
所以我們過去的設計上並不贊成用五等性來做限制而是要選擇這個代理義務的評估適合不適合來做這樣的機制來做管控盡量避免這種家庭倫理的一些壓迫的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9641.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9658.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
等19人擬具、「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案 案件 、人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案件 、人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案件 、人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案件 、人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案件 、人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案件 、人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案件 、人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案件 、人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案件 、人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案件 、人工生殖法 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9659.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9665.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9682.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9691.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
好不好,是不是請部長再回應一下。好的,謝謝委員的指教。我們會來能力。好,謝謝。謝謝黃昭偉。謝謝部長。繼續我們請葉仁芝委員出席。請衛福部長,謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9710.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9718.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
議員好部長好我來關心一個食安的問題部長你知不知道我們很多食物中毒到最後其實都是不知道原因你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9719.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9747.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
我們國人常常發生食物中毒,但是最後都是原因不明,不知道被什麼影響到?知道這事嗎?我是覺得衛生單位應該是很努力在...沒有啦,我問你知不知道?我就4分鐘啦,直接回答問題沒這麼困難啦。有幾件事情大概都沒有公布出來啦。不是只有幾件啦,我跟你講,其實比例是非常高啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9748.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9757.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
這是去年的數字我們有5196個人食物中毒結果最後有高達近2000人他是不知道為什麼食物中毒 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9758.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9783.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第1屆第2會期社 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9785.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9796.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
這個比例你有沒有覺得很高?有沒有覺得非常高?很高啦!不是看起來,真的非常高!好,那我們現在來問一下部長你知道為什麼會這樣嗎?原因是什麼?為什麼會這麼高? |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9805.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9823.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
包括就很多事情後來都不了了之啊報告委員那其實這食物中毒發生以後食藥署會負責進去採取檢體那有的時候這個食魚我們收不到食魚的檢體或我們收到食魚檢體以後它的量不夠讓我們足以分析出來的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9823.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9844.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9848.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9865.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
檢驗檢驗檢驗檢驗檢驗檢驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9865.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9867.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
檢驗當中是沒有做這個?不是啦,以前沒有驗到就代表之後都不會驗到嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9895.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9914.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
這樣委員我們會待會去把那個標準的流程以後...之前也沒有那個米酵菌酸啊後來不是也是有了那為什麼我特別舉這個菌啊我們來看日本日本的狀況其實他們食物中毒後來以不明原因結案非常少啊大概只有一趴兩趴 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9915.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9935.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9939.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9951.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
所以日本就有日本有驗這個菌然後就有判定出很多人是因為這樣的食物中毒啊所以他們最後不明原因比較少因為他們驗的菌比較多其實就那麼簡單啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9953.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9974.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
處長就是這麼簡單啦因為你驗的菌少所以你最後不明的原因多嘛那我們來看一下我們台灣這邊實際上的狀況這個就是曲狀感菌我現在跟你介紹啦好不好那目前台灣近幾年都沒有通報建樹那不是說可以直接斷定說是因為不是被他們感染所以我們根本沒驗那我們是驗什麼勒? |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9975.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10002.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
這就是我們平常驗的五大類金黃色葡萄球菌、仙人掌桿菌還有長岩胡菌、沙門柿桿菌以及病原性大腸桿菌我們就驗這幾個除了驗這個之外都不驗不驗了最後就以不明原因結案我覺得還可以這樣子喔還可以這樣喔不驗就沒有然後最後大家也不知道什麼原因然後反正患者病好了就當沒這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10004.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10027.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
有這麼粗糙喔我們在食物中毒這塊是有這麼粗糙喔我記得當時我們那時候剛來立法院的時候以前還是陳建仁院長的時候那時候還排那個食安報告把自己的食安做講得多厲害結果我們對於食物中毒的檢驗粗糙成這個樣子部長你你因為你也是520之後才就任的啦跟你反映這個事情你覺得可以接受嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10029.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10057.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
好,我想連日本都有這樣的一個檢查我們一定要謝謝委員的指教我想我們食藥署回去不是你們不驗你們驗這麼少原因是什麼是沒錢嗎上一次米香菌酸的時候還沒有實驗室還沒有這個菌還是跟民間調的每一次都發生原因之後在那邊危機處理然後媒體報的大你們就重視媒體沒有報你們就當沒這回事那國人的健康你們置於何地啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10059.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10079.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
能不能夠將這個不明原因減少?能不能?現在高達建樹高達快六成啦!訂一個目標好不好?今年訂一個目標我想我們一定會努力,要看要數有沒有不想,訂一個目標啦!訂一個目標,現在是去年是進六成不明原因,你今年要降到多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10081.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10095.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
我們十二、十四、十五、一、二、一、二、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、五、 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10105.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10133.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
好不好 沒有那麼誇張的 你定一個目標但你講一個五成 國人能夠接受嗎 大家可以接受說以後食物中毒有五成 我們是不知道原因 大家可以接受嗎所以這個官員講出這樣的話 我們要求那個食藥署至少要降到四成以下第一個階段好不好四成你就 那我們會做檢討的 我跟你講我的標準起碼要跟日本一樣啦 人家是一兩趴啦 你講一個四成 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10134.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10145.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
那當然你說你要從6%直接降到降到1%、2%你們可能覺得不敢講啦但你也要有一個至少目標要遠大一點嘛講個一層嘛一開始講五層後來講四層一層啦好不好目標啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10151.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10171.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
我們當然朝著向日本的目標來努力向日本的目標邁進最後最後齁那你們要努力自己定方法出來我現在告訴你驗了菌少就是其中一個原因其他的原因你們自己去然後再來那個最後問一下齁因為最近蘇丹紅的問題又起來了那昨天也有驗到越南的黑胡椒嘛裡面有蘇丹紅 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10173.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10188.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10202.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10214.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 案 案﹚立法院第1次聯席會議：立法院第2次聯席會議：立法院第1次聯席會議：立法院第2次聯席會議：立法院第2次聯席會議：立法院第2次聯席會議：立法院第2次聯席會議：立法院第2次聯席會議：立法院第2次聯席會議：立法院第2次聯席會議：立法院第2次聯席會議：立法院第2次聯席會議：立法院第2次聯席會議：立法院第2次聯席會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10220.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10248.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
拉椒粉蘇丹紅從越南進這一批不是拉椒粉啦黑胡椒啦已經一段時間了啦也不是昨天發生的已經一段時間了那上一次拉椒粉的時候專區也有啦然後流向都很清楚這一次就沒有啊那為什麼同樣是食安問題同樣是蘇丹紅上一次因為媒體有報所以很重視這一次因為媒體沒報所以就比較隨便嗎還是怎樣可不可以比照上一次啦把流向怎麼做出來在網站上給大家參考就這麼簡單嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10250.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10253.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
可以吧?可以,委員這我們會去做。那這樣現在蘇丹文到底嚴不嚴重? |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10255.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10281.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
報委員其實這次蘇丹紅的在胡椒粉其實大部分都已經回收那這一次最大的一個量的時候事實上他大概有超過一半我們都超過一半他是已經那時候是因為颱風他已經暴順了其他的量我們都在追其實第一個案子當我們現在只有15公斤左右的是自售他賣去其他的大概都回都已經回收下架或者銷毀了那這個160公斤的有像六線式的 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10285.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10296.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
這個我們持續還在查這個。還在查嗎?所以他就有可能流到市面上嗎?是。對,所以是應該要提醒國人的啊。好不好?謝謝。好,謝謝。謝謝。好,謝謝委員,謝謝部長。接下來我們請楊耀、楊委員質詢。好,謝謝主席。主席,我請一下吳署長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10323.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10324.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員第1次聯席會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10326.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10351.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
蘇長,我們就是在單身女性跟女性同婚的人工生殖大概大家比較沒有意見,對不對?意見比較一致可是我看衛福部的草案裡面大概有明定說假如要用人工生殖進行前必須要進行子女最佳利益評估這個確實很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10354.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10372.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
那譬如說評估項目有品性、經濟能力等等,你個人的想法怎麼讓這些評估不淪為形式上的程序步驟? |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10373.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10398.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
要怎樣才能踏實?因為這個很重要當然非常重要所以必須要建立相關的評估的機制跟規範還有品質的一個確保所以我們會有第三外督的一個機制我問這個就是因為子女還是最優先要被保障的對象接下來問一下就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10400.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10423.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
我們現在最大的增值是在代孕升值的部分那衛福部其實五月份就已經有版本出來對不對那12月初前幾天署長對媒體還說就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10427.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10448.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
不裡面並沒有立場一定要要專章我這樣子的敘述對不對在程序在走的過程中的確如委員所說那現在在短短的幾天之內又變成一定要立專法我這麼講並不是我反對立專法我是要講說為什麼一個行政機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10456.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10477.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案件並不是一個新的議題。」例如說可以看到的資料是2002年 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10481.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10497.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
內清德委員就已經有提過了表示這個在台灣社會其實已經討論很久的東西那你們行政機關在這麼短的半年裡面你們的政策這麼反覆為什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10499.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10524.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
跟委員報告現在很關心那其實就是因為討論非常的久而且國民監察署也跟國際、國內相關的專家然後做相關的討論跟研議那也將相關的法條就是預告的版本做完預告那也是回應很多社會的期待還有立法院當初有提一些版本還有公聽會的一些要求甚至於質詢當時謝前部長的 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10527.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10531.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 行政稿 行政稿 行政稿 行政稿 行政稿 行政稿 行政稿 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10557.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10568.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
為什麼12月初還說你們...因為那時候程序還沒有做完啊都還是在做程序啊目前我們的布板才決定而已啊所以就是也算很急就章的在這兩天決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10578.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10605.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
應該是這樣,跟委員說明一下,其實就是說我們當時把它設計進來的時候,其實是用專章的方式在處理。對,那如果說要把它切割下來的話,我們就把那個專章給剔除而已。那也就是說把專章剔除,然後你們把專章改成專法。未來再做研議,未來再做研議。那你還必須要研議多久? |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10607.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10634.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
這個還是要重啟,如果它是專法就要依法的程序重新走一次啊還要重新走一次那就是還要等你們我剛剛講了就是說這不是一個新的議題這是在台灣社會已經討論很久的問題甚至於在立法院2002年賴慶德委員就已經有 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10635.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10663.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
包括蕭美琴委員我看連署他們兩個都有就是從那時候開始討論我現在並不是說不能立專法只是說為什麼行政機關的速度會那麼慢慢到現在委員的版本一大堆然後大家等你們等你們也沒關係因為我個人的主張是這樣子就是要嘛就是一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10664.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10680.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
把這個問題一併做一個檢討,把立法完善的完成。我也想要問一下就是說你們預告收集了600多則的意見,署長覺得量體夠大嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10688.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10711.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
這是來反映在給我們的意見上面的對反映本身本來就是反對的會比較勇於表態這個第一點第二點我也不覺得600多則的數量夠我還是回到最初我覺得今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10713.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10736.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
大家都希望能夠保障每一個人的生育平等我想行政、立法部門沒有人反對而現在我講的是行政機關的立法速度包括署長你在對外發言的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10739.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10763.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10764.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10791.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
等專法進來一併做討論這樣子比較可以讓整個人工生殖的部分做一個完善的法制建構可是你們真的不能拖延太久我們就衝擊以火熱 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10794.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10812.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
那這樣子的一個程序需要多久?他必須還是要做專家會議討論完了以後收集意見、預告等相關程序。那大概多久?這個流程要多久?這個流程當然會比較長。當然會比較長。署長假如說當然會比較長,那 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10820.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10832.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
那就比較麻煩啦,因為這麼多委員的提案版本,大家能不能等待你們那麼久? |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10833.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10862.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
台灣有一些不孕的人工生殖需求的民眾有沒有辦法等那麼久?這個都是一個問題。我們當然要盡快,那是法制還是要議程序來做?你們的盡快在速率上比起立法院真的慢很多。謝謝署長、謝謝主席、謝謝委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10866.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10869.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
謝謝楊委員,謝謝署長。那接下來我們請圖前幾位質詢。好,謝謝主席。那請一下我們邱部長。圖委員好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10887.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10905.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
好部長那當然我們本期有看我們12月2號衛福部國建署針對人工生殖法有發了一篇新聞稿針對代孕確定脫鉤人工生殖法那其實我們都知道一直以來我們都以為這次會納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10905.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10910.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
等19人擬具、「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10921.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10947.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
因為一直以來其實要不要把它納入這個這次的法裡面其實都有不同的聲音所以這個修法是一直延續性那預告是其中一個過程那當然會讓我們覺得如果弄成磚瘴的狀況是怎麼樣如果把它偷鉤的話會怎麼樣這個其實長久以來就有所以沒有說急轉彎啦而是到最後覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10949.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10969.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 案﹚立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及生殖法部分條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及生殖法部分條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及生殖法部分條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及生殖法部分條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及生殖法部分條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及生殖法部分條文修正草 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10977.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10986.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10997.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11020.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
五、委員那個其實你是比較國民黨民眾黨還有衛福部啦齁如果能夠把民眾民進黨的也列進去你會發現是差不多平衡就是有不同的我們有列表啦齁等一下部長你自己的態度啊你自己認為應不應該納入我覺得有時候修法立法沒有那麼一定是 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11021.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11028.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員等19人擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11040.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11055.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
我覺得如果能夠得到社會大家的共識的事情我雖然有我專業的一個立場但是也要考慮到整個可是我記得好像好像之前你們都是支持的對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11056.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11074.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
我支持討論,但是到最後沒有公示。那你對於《人工生殖法》納入代孕,你自己的態度,我很想了解,當然你衛福部有衛福部的立場,那你自己的態度到底是支持還是不支持?我想我個人的態度真的不重要,最重要的是大家團體,各個專業團體、民團。 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11078.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11082.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11102.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11104.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11114.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11136.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
對於這部分的立場應該不要太模糊。我覺得應該是我們對於人工生殖法應該是要更進步要去解決我們這些代孕這些的問題而不是立場模糊一直搖擺不定那這樣子我們人工生殖法這部分怎麼可能會更進步而且針對人工生殖法草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11137.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11156.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
那說實在的話我們一直也沒有看到衛福部自己草案也沒有看到我們衛福部的版本那我們總統有召開這個健康台灣推動委員會不知道有沒有討論到針對這個人工生殖法代孕這個相關的議題報告委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11161.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11163.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
在過去的討論當中沒有討論到這個都沒有討論到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11180.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11208.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
其實據我們來瞭解剛剛我也聽到很多委員有提起尤其有上一個楊耀委員他也有講針對其實我們的賴清德總統他在擔任立委的時候他自己也在91年有提案把人工生殖法條文內涵蓋代孕而且他也提到傳統倫理必須透過立法將這些行為逐步規範而且勢在必行 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11208.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11217.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
而且這些連署人包含了蕭美琴、包含了我們現任的高雄市長陳其邁所以其實他們都是認同的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11219.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11245.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
而且賴總統在擔任立委的時候他自己也說領養小孩愈來愈少而且領養別人的小孩是極為困難的事情所以照這樣來講人工生殖法、修法把代孕納入我覺得也是共識啊也是我們總統的共識也是副總統的共識我看很多之前很多民進黨立委擔任的時候都認為應該納入那為什麼現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11248.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11254.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
覺得這個部分會民進黨部分還有衛福部會覺得不應該納入而且要脫鉤。所以他認為納入是對的啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11271.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11275.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員等19人擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉案 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11301.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11302.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案件》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11304.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11331.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案〉案。 部長其實據我們了解現在我們看得到衛福部國建署針對我們人工生殖法這一部分我覺得大家針對這一部分代孕制度納入與否並不是我們現在討論的重點而是代孕的存在好像大家認為說不應以商業盈利為目的是不是今天針對這一部分才是重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11334 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11353.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
這當然是一個很重要的是一個論點所以是不是我們應該更應該好好去討論要定出一個辦法把這些問題一一來去解決而不是去逃避問題而不是去卸責啊謝謝委員指教齁我想我們沒有卸責啦齁那就是讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11355.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11374.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案﹚立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及生殖法部分條文修正草案案案﹚立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及生殖法部分條文修正草案案﹚立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及生殖法部分條文修正草案案﹚立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及生殖法部分條文修正草案案﹚立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及生殖法部分條文修 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11379.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11394.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
之前一直大家都有一個共識都認為這代孕制度會納入結果後來突然又來一個大轉彎然後又把它脫鉤又說要立一個專法其實大家都認為說這專法遙遙無期啊我也聽到很多委員講他這個問題大家討論很久 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11397.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11425.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
那現在又說要專法基本上他認為在他這個任內根本就不可能討論到那根本就是在逃避責任啊所以是不是應該面對問題好好的針對這個問題來討論不要再有模糊地帶針對大家的需求應該一一的來解決把這個法案要怎麼去定怎麼去修怎麼樣子讓它做得更完善才是重點應該是面對問題而不是想辦法把它脫鉤先把它推掉到時候再說 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11428.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11444.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
謝謝委的指教我們絕對沒有推掉責任只要任何一個人民需要的都是我們衛福部以及政府所關心的但是他要考慮他的一個還有是不是還有更要處理的更周全那這件可能應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11446.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11456.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人� |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11474.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11492.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
所以我們今天要討論這問題就是要解決他們的問題所以希望我們衛福部主管單位要面對問題不是把它脫鉤就卸責專法到時候再說遙遙無期今天大家都認為說已經好不容易有一個共識結果突然有一個急轉彎一個大轉彎這前面討論的都白討論希望部長我們來深思好好怎麼樣解決這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11499.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11518.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
先天後天不孕無法生育的這個群體,請部長多幫忙。是的,我們一定跟委員一樣非常關心,而且會想辦法來幫忙。好,希望我們部長、衛福部我們真的要面對這個問題來解決。是的,好,謝謝委員,謝謝。好,謝謝土偉,謝謝部長。接著我們請林淑雯委員質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11530.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11533.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
主席,各位大家好,是不是請我們邱部長。委員好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11540.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11555.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
副長,這個今天支持代孕的人大概都講說有共識,而我不知道他們的共識到底是怎麼來的。是少數幾個人說好就是共識的嗎?然後呢,大概有幾個講法,第一個就講說過去2004年還有2012年開過兩次公民審議會議,還做過民調,所以這個就是有共識。 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11567.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11575.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
最新的講法是說你看賴總統91年也有講過所以這個叫有共識如果總統說的91年這個是22年前講的可以成為聖旨的話那麼現在賴總統他可能會說請在野黨年金改革要顧及國家財政那你們也要聽一下啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11593.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11595.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
總統講的話你們就這麼聽的話他也講到說其實這個罷免法的這個選罷法的修正不能把它變罷免不能變成鳥籠公投啊你們怎麼不聽呢財政收支法也不能亂搞啊怎麼不聽呢所以今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11610.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11621.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
不要在那邊亂講胡說八道所以這個共識我今天要戳破所謂的共識所謂的20年前20幾年前的兩場的公民審議會議第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11623.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11624.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．20人擬具〉20人擬具〉20人擬具〉20人擬具〉20人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11653.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11657.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11681.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11710.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
而這個議題呢相當的複雜而且當時社會沒有討論過民眾也不了解更荒謬的是議題裡面這樣問請問您贊不贊成針對某些特殊狀況在有相關配套和管理的條件下將代理孕母技術納入規範提供經過評估有特殊需要的民眾欸這個問題很好笑什麼叫有特殊情形那相關配套又是什麼有管理的條件是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11711.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11729.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
通通不知道然後將代理孕母技術納入規範規範是什麼不知道然後去問你說支不支持還有一個問題是這樣問的政府如果制定法律配套其實可以允許某些民眾在特定條件下和規範下委託他人代孕請問你比較贊成哪一種狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11731.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11753.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
政府如果制定法律配套,配套內容是什麼?問卷內容?不知道。然後允許民眾在特定條件下,特定條件是什麼?也沒有說清楚。通通都不清不楚,不明不白,條件沒有設定,然後就這樣去隨便亂問。然後得出來結論說這個叫做社會共識。這個是太荒謬了吧。所以我們今天在講 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11754.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11767.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
這一些問題不明確沒有定義然後強烈的誘導性所以調查的可信性不具備所以在這裡我們要講兩場公民共識會議還有電話民調時隔已久社會變遷大而且經過他國的代孕的經驗及新視角的加入社會已經有新的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11778.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11784.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
擬具不具民意代表性的公民審議會議以及沒有可信度的電訪作為現在修法的討論基礎而聲稱代孕制度是國人共識是沒有說服力的更不要講賴總統23年前怎麼說這個是太荒謬的從年初衛福部的兩場公聽會還有預告人工生殖法修正草案後社會的反應來看今年最新的 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11806.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11822.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
公聽會各界的公聽會來看多數的意見都主張開放人工生殖法適用對象應與代理孕母脫鉤處理而且認為現在台灣社會根本不具有得以開放代孕的條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11823.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11849.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
委員還有二十年來社會的變遷這麼大不論支持或反對都需要先讓社會對這個議題有更多的理解而且要理性討論是否要有代孕制度而不是在共識不足的狀況裡面討論根本就沒有社會對話沒有足夠的社會討論下直接就進入由上而下透過少數幾個人的意志然後就 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11852.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11880.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
透過多數決然後進入這個馬上就完成立法這樣子是不行的部長你們到底是怎麼態度啊我們當然是專業跟開放然後站在人民的健康開放什麼啦開放什麼開放代理孕母嗎不是我是說開放的態度來接受大家的信息現在你們接受到的態度是什麼啊接受的態度就是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11881.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11906.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
在前面兩個主題那個共識度高所以我們建議這兩個來先行讓社會更多人照顧社會更多的人前面的兩個主題是什麼是那個單身女性還有那個同性女同性那那個至於代理孕母因為他的爭議分歧真的太大那我剛剛講公民會議和電話民調的可信度呢你覺得呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11908.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11921.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
因為陳昭芝委員一直以20個人參加他自己打臉當時的公民審議會議的共識我們再來看一下我早早念過嘛 這個是什麼時候的報紙 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11923.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11945.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
9393年8月25日的禮拜三的報紙中國時報第一遭代理育母公民預備會議20個人代表確定沒錯20個人當時陳昭之委員怎麼講20個人的結論難抵立院名義認為我把它講了那個報導內容最右邊的內容念一次給大家看吶吼 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11946.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11963.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
文中提到,爭取代理孕母合法化的和信醫院藥劑科主任陳昭智認為,公民共識會議的20個人根本不具公民代表性。他指出,藥品臨床試驗如果找20個人來做實驗,一定不能代表母體。 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11965.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11989.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
檢驗結果只能以個案認定,自然科學都有這一類的限制了,社會科學的範圍更廣泛。二十個人怎麼能夠代表台灣公民的意見呢?他說,就台灣2300萬的人口來說,二十個人實在是太少了。要說這些人的意見是公民共識,科學基礎上站不住腳,不足以說服大眾。 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11990.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
12001.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
維生署若以20人討論結果為政策依據,將來出爐的草案怎麼在立法院說服看法不同的立委呢?我就是要用他的話來告訴陳委員。你當時所認為沒有代表性的公民共識會議,今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
12009.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12021.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
你卓飛金氏今天動不動就把這個沒有代表性的你口中所聲稱的沒有代表性的公民會議拿出來當你支撐的理由和所謂的有共識欸2004、2012都只有20個人參加了欸這個叫做有社會共識嗎結果陳委員現在是公民會議的這個還有這個民調結果為推動立法的規念 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12037.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12045.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
我們真的覺得這樣薄弱的支撐啊來講說有社會共識 這個絕對不是事實這個絕對不是事實喔好 那我接下來講說啊剛才很多委員就講說我們不要商業化的出租子宮我們要利他的利他代孕生小孩利他代孕啦終究只是一個掩蓋工具化女性的騙局啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12067.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12073.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
我舉一個台大法律系陳昭儒教授的講法。我們可以這個真實世界每個人所擁有的資本跟籌碼都不一樣。你願意幫人家代孕的同意經常是在不平等的狀況下給出去的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12095.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12097.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
有人說陳委員一直講求子是他的夢想是人性。有人說陳委員一直講求子是他的夢想是人性。 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12101.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12122.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
但是呢,你有沒有想過道德上並不是你有需求就要被滿足這個是陳昭如這個教授講的即便是近年盛行的生育權的論述也不見得能推導出代孕合法這常被類比的就是器官買賣我們不會認為為了保障一個人的生命權 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12127.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12135.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案件,即使生命權至高無上,也不能正當化去買別人的肝。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12136.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12138.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
此風一開,代孕合法化了以後,大家都知道都是有錢人要去買經濟弱勢人的子宮來出租出借。 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12158.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12185.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
例他是一種接近包裝的論述。陳昭如教授說,例他與否是動機問題,但是你們例他不代表不能獲利,並不因只是補償工作損失,還是送一個經濟來改變他的本質。現在假借著例他壓低代孕的價格,事實上其實是一種剝削。 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12186.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12187.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12225.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12237.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
在代孕的過程,代孕者他的家人、他的家庭、先生、小孩、父母、公婆都要一起投入。他的生活都深受影響,而他的雇主、他的同事都要配合他的懷孕及生產而調整作業。 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12240.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12263.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
所以它不是只有出租、子宮、個人的付出家庭、職場都是代孕的一環在集體的付出都沒有被看到第二個最重要的代孕絕對是健康風險的轉嫁你不可以簡化成只是代理生一個小孩根據台女聯所供應的資料來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12264.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12267.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
大運是人工生殖技術的進行但是呢這種技術35歲以下的活產率大概是35%所以代理孕母平均要經過2.5到3次的懷孕週期才能成功要試驗這麼多次 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12288.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12308.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
對身心健康有很大的影響而懷孕到生產都有一定的風險在台灣認成性的糖尿病發生率17%認成性的高血壓發生率10%還有子顛前症產後大出血、羊水酸篩、剖腹產子宮切除胎兒新生兒產婦死亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12309.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12322.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第1次聯席會議：立法院第1次聯席會議：立法院第1次聯席會議：立法院第1次聯席會議：立法院第1次聯席會議：立法院第1次聯席會議：立法院第1次聯席會議：立法院第1次聯席會議：立法院第1次聯席會議：立法院第1次聯席會議：立法院第1次聯席會議：立法院第1次聯席會議：立法院第1次聯席會議：立法院第1次聯席會議：立法院第1次 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12336.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12351.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
所以代孕不是替人家懷孕生殖而已,而是承接了委託者在懷孕生產中的所有風險甚至是死亡的可能性。部長,你有掌握這樣的數據嗎?包委員,我沒有掌握到這麼詳細的一個數據,非常敬佩。你聽了以後你覺得做何感想? |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12365.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12380.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
所以還在那裡講只能利他為了反對商業化只能利他還要壓低人家的價格事實上本質上這是健康風險的轉嫁除了少數真的是為了親朋好友願意付出以外其實現在都是經濟優勢的強要人家經濟弱勢者的子宮出借 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12389 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12394.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12416.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12418.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12432.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12449.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
五場並不是沒有完全沒有金錢的涉入欸你們現在五場是說以必要的費用作為代孕的五場給付可是呢懷孕本身24小時身心的運作的付出孕產的健康死亡的風險產後的健康影響完全沒有被列入必要的成本裡面欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12451.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12472.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
所謂的利他代孕事實上是代理孕母全部身心和生活的投入和長期的付出又有難以避免的風險還要事後身體健康的所有代價因此決定要代孕的人多為有經濟壓力的弱勢對於弱勢者的高度付出給予最低的費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12473.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12493.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
只有那你們自己定義的必要的費用,這個就是剝削。利他代孕本質就是一個掩蓋工具化女性的騙局。我們不要再回過頭來,代孕生小孩不是生理自主權的展現,他是傷害生理自主權。我們剛剛講了啊, |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12496.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12510.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
在民主的社會身體的自主我的身體我自己決定那你可以說我要販賣我自己自願當奴隸民主社會可以允許嗎這個自願所謂自願背後通常代表的是貧窮啊我們不會允許是因為他踐踏了人性的尊嚴所以我們剛剛講說活體器官的捐贈法律也不允許啊如果你允許開放了多少人想要自願捐肝啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12525.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12542.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
但是我們知道活體捐肝很多都是要當時我們認為不可以五等親以外不可以是因為防止藉著善心自願之名請買賣之時的剝削所以我們這樣把它禁掉了在這種狀況裡面我們其實是還開放五等親五親等是為了成全病患求生的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12553.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12561.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
檢過了相當程度是個人的意願和選擇和病患的求生的需求是為了救人而不得不 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12563.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12589.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
所以現在有些人用身體自主權來合理化代理孕母時我們都覺得說你是在說什麼?真的有人願意嗎?除了至親最愛為了那個少數的身體缺陷的真的有我相信有但是開放了以後大多數大多數都不是大多數都不是更不要講我最後講代理孕母是父權文化壓迫女性的產物 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12591.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12619.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
剛剛有委員說我領養了一個但是我還是要生一個完成我的夢想我追求的夢想你只想到你自己的夢想你有沒有想到被你生出來的小孩你滿足了個人想要自己血清的孩子的願望但是你讓代理孕母付出巨大的代價侵犯人的尊嚴和完整性衝擊社會的價值而且為社會製造了更多的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12620.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12636.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 案 案 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12646.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12649.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案»案。netesa |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12664.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12686.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
其實版本也不用念了因為等行政院院版的話版本其實也不用進行我們今天是應該詢答大家討論然後就結束等到院版進來我們再主條然後當時再來宣讀版本不是更完備嗎所以在這裡建議一下主席啦拜託主席謝謝謝謝林淑雯委員謝謝部長接下來我們請吳思堯委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12697.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12699.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
謝謝主席,有請部長。委員好。大家辛苦喔。女人不是商品,所以我支持人工生殖法要跟代理孕母來脫鉤。那我剛剛很遺憾的聽到有之前的委員發言,他認為如果讓代孕另外脫鉤來處理,這是謝責。 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12726.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12750.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
我反而要說這是負責因為我們在討論的是攸關生命的議題攸關人權的議題攸關性別的議題不可不慎要讓有共識的先行社會沒有共識的我們應當嚴肅的來討論我首先讓大家看一段短短20秒的影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12755.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12778.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案»案。netesley Chen等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案»案。netesley Chen等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案»案。Nesley Chen等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案»案。Nesley Chen等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案»案。Nesley Chen等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案»案。Nesley Chen等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案»案。Nesley Chen等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案»案。N |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12786.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12805.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
在這一屆立委選舉的時候,非常遺憾,我的對手邀請了前我們的衛生署長楊志良先生來站台。站台居然就做了這樣非常失言的發言,他說:「臺灣女人三十歲以後的母老嬰兒 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12806.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12828.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
五、委員吳思瑤等50人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由、委員吳思瑤等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由、委員吳思瑤等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由、委員吳思瑤等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由、委員吳思瑤等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由、委員吳思瑤等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由、委員吳思瑤等19人擬 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12836.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12838.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案»案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12858.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12870.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
我反對這種殺蚊殺豬主義而今天我們討論的代孕制度事實上它的本質就是很多的楊智良們 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12872.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12875.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉案 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12894.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12915.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
能不能夠脫鉤我們更正向的確保人權,確保性別不受歧視,這是核心的議題啊。所以部長,楊志良應該跟您也是前好朋友啦,大家都在衛生福利界。你認為他說:「無生小孩就無好,無私養絕子絕孫。」你認同這樣的想法嗎?當然不認同。 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12919.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12935.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
那我想我也很抱歉我剛剛在司法法治委員會我也透過直播看到了很抱歉喔主席你說一句話我也聽起來很痛你說代理孕母的議題是女人跟女人的戰爭是這樣嗎?No one is outsider他涉及生命、涉及人權、涉及家庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12948.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12961.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
No one is outsider,請不要製造性別的對立。我反對這種退步的、這種落伍的、這種歧視的觀點。 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12963.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12983.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
在這種觀點之下我很遺憾我認為在討論今天人工生殖法的課題恐怕都沒有辦法回到正向的討論首先我要挑戰討論這個議案的核心的那個性別歧視性別意識不足的問題要被打破下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12985.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
13008.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
民意反對代孕所以不宜倉促的立法我以最新一次針對這個主題的民調是彩虹平權大平台他們對於人工生殖及代孕做了民調70.7%支持人工生殖適用於單身女性 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
13011.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
13036.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
61.4%支持人工生殖應當優先適用於女女同志之間高達50.4%不支持現在讓代孕上路而衛福部你們所做的公告之後收到了600多則的意見嘛對不對部長當中有多少是反對代孕的也有八成 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
13038.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
13049.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案»案。所以應當要聽到民意、審慎為之,不要為快而快。下一頁。 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
13052.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
13079.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
這週二,NGO召開了記者會,代孕侵害人權,停止代孕立法。NGO站出來,在今天我們審查人工生殖法的此時此刻,也有一群公民朋友在立法院周遭集結緊急的來呼籲,捍衛女性的人權,反對代孕,這是民意。下一頁。 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
13080.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13088.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
所以民進黨團我們這週召開了我們共同倡議的記者會人工生殖跟代理孕母要脫鉤 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13090.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13098.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13117.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13136.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
然後我也要求討論人工生殖法一定要有院版您同意我的三大立場嗎部長脫鉤專法或是兩階段立法以及要有院版我想我們現在的立場就是這樣子好很好在下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13137.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13151.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
我也要挑戰嚴肅的生命議題請不要成為不同意見者的對立我非常遺憾藍白的在野黨的委員們透過謾罵、透過恐嚇、透過情樂 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13158.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13170.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13171.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13184.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
把這些爭取女性權益的夥伴們把他扭曲成為心理變態。這反而陳昭之委員如果要推人工生殖法可是很可惜正因為您這種非理性的胡亂的指涉反而讓這個議案的討論失焦了因為他製造了對立我覺得非常的可惜 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13194.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13215.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
同樣我們蘇委員身為醫師出身我也非常尊重您我是真的期待不應當因為黨團之間或是立委之間的立場不同您就說如果代孕不處理那人工生殖法會讓它繼續卡著我希望這是媒體報導的缺漏我希望它不是事實我最後來 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13225.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13227.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
很多問題應當要嚴肅討論,兒童的權益如何保障? |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13231.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13238.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案件事項》案件事項案件事項案件事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13260.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13274.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
很抱歉,占用了一點點時間。12月3號就這兩天的新聞。非獄兵的女子遭到泰國仲介,帶到柬埔寨去從事代孕,而且有13個人被關進牢裡,被判4年。 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13275.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13296.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
跨國仲介的人可以逃避刑責,但是這些因為經濟弱勢,他被仲介媒合成為代理孕母的人,他菲律賓被帶到泰國去,去泰國,被泰國的仲介帶到柬埔寨去,被關到牢裡的,被入罪的是這些弱勢的代孕。 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13297.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13310.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
所以歐洲議會在今年的4月就做出563比7的高票通過他們認為脅迫女性進行代孕是人口販運脅迫女性進行所謂利他行的代孕就是人口販運這是歐洲議會高票563比7通過的議案 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13326.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13355.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
部長您知道全世界第一個讓人工生殖法上路是哪個國家嗎?人工生殖法還是代理孕母?人工生殖法好我跟您報告是瑞典1984年1984年全球第一個讓人工生殖法上路的進步國家是瑞典但是瑞典迄今還反對代理孕母就是因為很多的人權議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13356.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13357.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13360.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13369.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13387.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13391.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
謝謝五、謝謝部長。來,接下來我們請黃國昌委員質詢。來,謝謝主席。馬上有請部長。委員好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13415.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13428.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
部長好我相信為了人工生殖法跟代理孕母這個嚴肅的課題衛福部過去這段時間做了很多的研議跟努力在面對這樣嚴肅的問題的時候事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13432.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13456.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
我認為任何一方都不應該幫另外一方可能不同觀點的人強加帽子這樣不好因為這樣子只會讓台灣社會更加的分裂沒有助於公共政策的討論我為什麼語重心長的用這樣子的方式來開場我先請教一下部長那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13460.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13486.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
我為什麼這麼語重心長的開場我在回溯我們立法院我們的整個國家針對有關於人工生殖跟代理育母整個發展立法的推動公共政策討論的歷程當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13489.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13517.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
當初2002年提出人工生殖法草案認為應該要贊成代理孕母是基於人權保障的包括了我們現任的總統賴清德我相信賴清德總統當初在擔任立委的時候在人工生殖法裡面贊成代理孕母一定是本於良善的初衷 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13518.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13538.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
他絕對不是因為要去物化我們女性的朋友或者是要侵害我們女性的人權而提出這樣的法案部長你認同嗎?我認同你認同嗎?這是因為這個樣子啊所以我真的覺得在討論這個課題的時候我們大家就事論事 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13541.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13567.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
針對代理育母可能會產生不管是對於未來的子女還是代理育母還是有需要的婦女們彼此之間的利害關係怎麼樣好好的、審慎的去思考才是一個健康的態度也正是因為這個樣子部長您知不知道針對代理育母的議題我們國家舉辦過幾次大型的公民審議會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13570.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13592.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
據剛剛大家幾位委員的陳述大概有兩次一次是2004年一次是2012年這不是民意調查這是一個審議式的民主討論的會議兩次會議的結論基本上面都認為說我們應該有條件的開放 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13595.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13624.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
只是說我們在討論公共政策的時候我們要比較細緻的去討論在什麼樣的條件下適合在什麼樣的條件下可以充分的保障人權這才是討論公共政策應該要有的基本態度去年大選的時候台灣民眾黨的主席柯文哲在11月7號提出了政見他說代理育母要納入人工生殖法 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13626.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13648.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
這是我們台灣民眾黨的政見我們向來的習慣是我們開出了支票我們就會履行所以陳昭志委員他秉持他一貫的信念他也提出了修法的草案柯文哲主席在11月7號宣布了以後馬上看到11月8號我們衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13650.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13670.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
馬上緊跟著宣誓代理育母要納入人工生殖法的修法。部長,您認為前任的部長在去年宣誓說代理育母要納入人工生殖法的修法,他是在侵害我們女性的權益嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13671.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13688.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
我想謝前部長是一個婦產科醫師也是一個很有愛心的醫師我相信他是站在怎麼樣來關心更多人民的心情來這樣的一個作為好,從去年 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13689.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13715.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
我們就延續到了今年嘛今年五月這個是由衛福部預告的草案這不是台灣民眾黨預告的草案我們的衛福部預告的草案說了什麼他說為了讓無子宮因子宮與免疫疾病導致懷孕或分娩將產生嚴重危害及生命安全的婦女以及我們同性婚姻的朋友們能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13718.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13745.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
借由代孕生殖技術的協助達到生育子女的目的,保障他的家庭權,維護代理育母、代孕生殖子女及委託方三方的權益。這個是衛福部所公告的草案嗎?是,在5月14號公告的。衛福部當初在公告這個草案的時候,是為了要侵害我們女性朋友的權益嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13747.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13760.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
當然不是這樣的目的啦是希望去解決去幫忙更多的因為我覺得齁在討論這麼嚴肅的公共政策的議題的時候我們在心態上面啊要趨於和緩 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13761.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13764.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．審查�� |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13777.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13798.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
我們整個歷程看下來整個社會都知道這是個嚴肅的問題我們要保護小孩子也要保護女性也要兼顧其他真的沒有辦法有生育能力的國人同胞大家共同的權益在這樣子的基礎上12月的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13800.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13816.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
讓大家真的蠻詫異的我們的國建署署長早上才說沒有預設立場到了下午馬上改口說要脫鉤處理這個政策急轉彎的大轉折部長到底是怎麼回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13817.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13837.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
是的,我還是要跟委員報告,那個其實在公告預告以後就聽到很多當然反對的聲音,那所以我們在部裡面其實一直在研議,沒有說急轉彎,但是我們還是希望原來用公告的版一直討論,繼續討論,那到最後的確是發現 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13841.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13844.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13859.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13864.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案件 等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案件 等19人擬具⋯⋯ |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13874.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13896.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
站在一屆的看法,事實上大家是希望說有好的配套措施以後能夠趕快進行,否則的話真的遙遙無期啊,不曉得要拖到什麼時候啊。我希望這一方的聲音,衛福部也能夠聽到,不要有任何的預設立場。 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13898.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13923.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
因為陳美洲醫師是我的學生,我也了解他在不印證方面幫忙我。他是不印證醫學會的理事長。在不印證方面也幫我們在試管、嬰兒方面貢獻非常的多。當然在婦產科醫學會方面就有比較中立討論的聲音。所以我們都會聽所有的開放的 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13924.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13928.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
擬具、「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13948.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13958.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
這個都他說的啦我字都全部標起來了我不會去隨便捏造人家沒有說的話啦好沒有關係啦最後一點時間我提醒部長一件事喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13959.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13982.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
昨天我問你,針對有關於國外醫科牙醫學歷的採認你在這邊承諾我會維持2017年最嚴格的標準你還記得嗎?是的,絕對記得但今天本土小牙醫聯盟又開記者會了說你們現在的醫師法施行細則大開後門 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13985.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
14000.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
大開後門跟你當初所講的維持最嚴格的標準他們認為是一場騙局啊你有沒有什麼話想說?報告委員這個部分吼我們他的確在之前有這樣的疑惑也畫了很多重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
14000.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
14023.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
那我們有一次左院長請他們大家還有幾個代表到來談那當時有針對這個細則我想意思是有很做很詳細的一個跟他解釋那如果說未來還有真的覺得不放心的地方今天早上10點開記者會我從頭到尾都聽完了所以你講的是跟人家解釋的很清楚是發生在什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
14024.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
14039.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
那沒關係那如果說他們的這個因為我們覺得已經用最嚴格的如果他們還覺得不夠周全那我們可以再來努力再來修改都沒關係我這樣講啦就是說保障所有 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
14040.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
14044.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
14055.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
14076.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
他們如果所提出來的質疑衛福部覺得有誤會的就要去說明清楚但是如果真的有問題的恐怕衛福部也要重新的再斟酌啊是的沒問題一定這樣做OK好謝謝好謝委員好謝謝黃委員謝謝部長繼續由楊瓊英委員執行我們在林宜瑾委員執行完畢後休息20分鐘吃便當 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
14088.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
14090.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
14095.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14117.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
委員好部長好從你當醫師從你當立法委員到現在部長我相信人工生殖法的修法包括了代孕的議題討論了將近30年也可以表示說臺灣這個民主國家在整個重大議題的時候我們要充分的討論所以因此政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14118.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14136.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
檢討論點﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14136.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14158.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
一定要的。一定要的。好,我們終於有這個共識,但是我們看到在這30年,快要30年的當中,那麼也包括做過了三次的全國民調,兩次的公民會議,不管是在2004年,或許這兩次的公民會議,大家各方都充分的去討論,充分的去討論。 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14160.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14175.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
所以主張代理育母納入人工生殖法的草案裡頭包括了當時擔任立法委員的賴清德先生現在的總統他也在2002年的時候也提案修法他當時醫學科技的進步應該要想 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14183.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14197.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1次聯席會議．立法院第2次聯席會議．立法院第2次聯席會議．立法院第3次聯席會議．立法院第4次聯席會議．立法院第5次聯席會議．立法院第6次聯席會議．立法院第7次聯席會議．立法院第8次聯席會議．立法院第9次聯席會議．立法院第10次聯席會議．立法院第11次聯席會議．立法院第12次聯席會議．立法院第12次聯席會議．立法院第13次 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14197.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14222.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
包括委員我相信那個我也當過幾年的立委我相信從不管是當醫師或你有剛有提到感謝您來肯定那那個從醫師到立委我們我永遠相信當時所提案的任何一個委員或提出建議的都是真的都是希望都是非常 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14223.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14227.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員等19人擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14239.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14256.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
好,你所說的非常溫馨,那本席要請教,因為我們國會現在經過了那麼多的討論,那現在正要審查的來討論,我們的英明的召集人來排定這個議程,那可是國建署 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14257.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14265.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
擬具、「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14282.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14295.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案件及立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案件及立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案件及立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案件及立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案件及立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14296.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14313.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
報告員,我想我們在今年的5月14號公告以後,預告以後,就收到了大概600多則的意見,基本上有八成都是反對代理運母,但是因為公告的內容...反對代理運母八成二? |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14316.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14335.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
大概我們也很希望原來的公告預告的法能夠再多做討論所以一直在研議研議那其實已經他是原來是用專章所以我們很早就有說把把這個部分因為比較爭議把它延後再來處理的版本很早就所以其實是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14336.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14355.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案� |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14365.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14388.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
我們到最後因為我們的召委已經排了審查所以衛福部還是要表達呈現一個立場那請教你說你沒有提轉彎你在什麼時候決定脫鉤決定脫鉤在什麼時候因為你說每一個人提案都很好我也不希望說應該有幾個禮拜前大家都民主國家本來就是有自己的立場幾個禮拜前應該就有決定脫鉤的立場什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14393.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14416.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
應該幾個禮拜前的幾次的因為我們是一直在部裡面一直在討論討論要怎麼辦這樣子那個你現在告訴我們的是說你幾個禮拜前就已經確定要脫鉤我們就有討論要脫鉤的一個理程一個設計啦因為條文總是要去分開脫鉤的設計在什麼時候決定在政府部門應該有應該有三個禮拜之前三個禮拜之前就已經決定是脫鉤脫鉤的一個方向來進行了 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14421.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14449.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
因為當時想說還在討論的過程當中但是因為我們今天排了審查我想衛福部還是要有一個立場來論述那你這樣子說是打臉國建署喔因為國建署在當天說的他沒有他早上還說沒有預設立場下午才說是透過可是現在部長你告訴我們的是三個禮拜前就已經政策方向是要脫鉤是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14451.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14460.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
我想吳市長當時的媒體的一個呈現只是說我們本來就一直在走程序請教您現在所說的行政院也知道你要決定是脫鉤嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14467.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14480.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
你這個三個禮拜前決定這個方向,那行政院你有沒有報告給行政院長這麼重大的法案?所以我們當然有報告,有跟行政院說明。就你在三個禮拜前決定要脫鉤之後有跟行政院報告? |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14496.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14519.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
有給行政院報告,那行政院的方向也跟你的方向是一樣的嗎?因為行政院當然是尊重我們專業的一個立場。很多人希望行政院要有行政院版本,什麼時候會出來?行政院版本我們現在完成以後就會送姓評會。 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14525.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14538.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
在縣北影響評估,那我們預計看看能不能12月底能夠送到行政院預計你們要在12月底送到行政院去,那所以這個會期是來不及囉?這個會期會來不及囉?我想我們已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14547.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14566.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
拜託做得最好嘛,所以就是徵請大家的意見,來一直在討論討論,那還要有一定的程序。當然,這就是民主的機制,各方意見都要進來,但是我們政府還是要有你的一個基本點。就是說我預估什麼時候行政院版會送到立法院來。 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14569.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14597.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
你現在給我一個答案叫12月底12月底你的會送到行政院嗎?是不是?從蠻早以前就一直...不是,部長我們來討論一下也就是說各方的意見我們都給予尊重但是一個就是讓需要者他有方向而且小孩的保護是很重要那接下來我們討論到的也就是說在這個月12月底你衛福部的版本會送到行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14598.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14601.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
那行政院大概什麼時候會送到立法院來呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14606.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14633.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
當然這個要看行政院審查的進度。你剛剛不是說你給行政院報告了嗎?你給行政院報告了,他尊重你的專業啊。那是大方向,但是整個條文的細節當然是要討論,要把它設計得更完整嘛,然後才能送出去。那你自己預估呢?這個當然流程就必須照行政的流程走。那部長在你的預估呢?你大概什麼時候行政院本會送到立法院來呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14637.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14657.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
因為行政院的流程說實在我也不敢說把握。因為他們也是要先審查嘛。不然我們一名的召集人他呢是非常的用心讓大家可以好好的來討論。好,有任何的進度我想我隨時跟召委這邊報告。那我希望要知道啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14659.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14678.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
我希望本席希望要知道啊也跟委員楊偉這邊報告不是就報告我們希望你要努力因為大家這麼重大的法案各自大家都有立場其實真的是真的是非常努力啦開了那麼多場專家會我想很多包括陳慶輝委員都說他也都被 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14678.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14680.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
等19人擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14695.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14718.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
一定審慎,我們勇於承擔,然後審慎來進行。我們還是一樣一個原則,就是讓有需要的人他有所方向。第二個是立他,而且是要保護小孩為原則。我們希望這個進度可以聽到你的進度。我們不但要保護小孩,也要保護弱勢。所以要去了解到真正,今天大家談論了很多真正寶貴的意見,我們都會來檢驗。謝謝委員。謝謝,謝謝委員,謝謝部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14724.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14749.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
接下來我們請鍾佳斌委員質詢。主席、在場委員先進。列席的政府監事長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請邱部長。我們等一下那個。委員好。等一下。 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14752.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14777.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
來部長,這個為什麼要擔接出來,人工生殖法競速完成審議,你同意嗎?支持嗎?我當然支持有共識的趕快完成審議。接下來你就等於回答第二句了,求同存異,代理孕母脫鉤處理。好,那就是脫人工生殖跟代理孕母到底什麼關係我們來看。請問一下部長,人工生殖就是等於代理孕母? |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14779.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14798.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
人工生殖法解決的問題是不是就等於代理孕母所能解決的問題?這應該不太一樣。不太一樣嘛。人工生殖,好那我再問一個更核心的,你認為生育是不是天賦人權?生育是嘛。是天賦人權嗎?是自己的身體權嘛。是是。生育嘛。是。你也知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14799.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14817.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
我們過去也感謝你過去到屏東來看我,選舉的時候你知道我們這區域的位,雖然是做立法委員,跟電影的面財差不多,齋氣算很酸啦,但不是算立董房啦。我們常常會說一句話啦,就是說祝新郎新娘百年好合,早生貴子。你怎麼會聽人家這樣說?現在很多人在說,新郎新娘我們祝你早生貴子,我們都很尊重。 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14826.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14854.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
我們會問什麼?新郎說:「你有暗算要生幾個?貼臉、老伯、老婦、那個長男長女也跟你問一下。」新郎都會說:「這要看他的意思。」所以我們後來會問什麼?問新娘:「你有暗算要貼臉的家庭,生幾個嗎?」這什麼意思?在生育這件事情上呢,女性才是主導者,你同意嗎?你老生幾個是你家庭還是你母家庭的?當然是我母家庭。是嘛! |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14855.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14876.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
所以人工生殖可能遇到的問題男女性都有對不對但是代理孕母真的完完全全是以女性的權利為核心是不是這樣子那如果有人主張說我們要讓人工生殖來解決一些因為沒辦法自然受孕的一些需求那他需要用人工生殖你支持嘛對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14878.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14884.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
但是說代理運母這個欸好像大家有不同意見喔我們暫時脫鉤你認為這是政治問題嗎?什麼叫政治問題? |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14888.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14912.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
整組人的嘛,是不是這樣?我想這個不是政治問題,這是牽涉到很多倫理,很多我們要堅持的價值。好,那我們往下看啦。好啦,剛剛又有委員說啊,說這個部長啊,你說到執政黨、民進黨的壓力啦,本來以前民進黨也是支持待遇運動啦,現在急轉彎啦,所以你跟著急轉彎,差點翻車,有嗎?我們看一下。 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14914.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14942.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
現在這些版本只要是民進黨的委員有沒有代孕通通沒有民進黨的委員的提案立場很一致從頭到尾從過去到現在都沒有支持代理孕母你覺得什麼原因你猜猜看為什麼民進黨都而且毫無疑問的我看提案委員好像沒有看到男性只有這個郭國文搞不清楚自己性別跑去連署黃秀芳的 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14944.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14961.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
為什麼?為什麼?我們兩個都是男性,我們來討論這個議題有點尷尬,為什麼你們都反對?來啦,我再詢問一個問題啦齁。生育是天賦人權,但是婚跟育有必然相關嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14963.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14980.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
但現在去解除,阿尊說新娘大肚子,你會這樣講嗎?以前都不敢講啊,以前都是婚紗弄到蓬蓬啊,還有呢,有時候司儀還會開玩笑,誒,走下去洗衣服,新郎,看好好勒,有新啊,在這裡就轟轟大笑。 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14981.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
15003.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
現在不一樣啦!現在如果說是什麼?我們遇到這種主持喜宴的時候喔!相依鄰盟喔!甚至有時候新郎新娘結婚啊!伴郎是自備啊!花童是自備啊!你有對得很堅強嗎?現在現代社會,我們說多子多孫多夫妻都沉浮了過去了。我們現在婚姻跟生育有必然要在一起嗎?沒有結婚怎麼會有孩子啊?你會接受嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
15009.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
15011.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
三、委員黃捷等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案。arnt |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
15021.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
15038.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
你會接受嗎?如果你自己的家長你可以接受因為我沒有女兒啦我不知道你有沒有女兒啦但我相信現在社會婚育是脫鉤的往下看所以現在我們看到人工生殖法為什麼這要討論為什麼要趕快通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
15040.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
15055.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
因為我們婚姻已經平權了,但是人工生殖法還寫什麼?夫妻。現在婚姻平權,我們要什麼名詞要定義才正確?是不是要配偶?是不是這樣?是不是這樣?不一定吧?所以人工生殖法這第一條要修正嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
15058.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
15085.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
配偶嘛,配偶來取代夫妻你支不支持?當然要修正草案。對嘛,這個要符合我們法制一致命要再往下一條,再往下一個。另外呢,其實啊,婚育脫鉤,其實因為懷孕的是女性,是母體。居然我們看到有個中國女企業家,欸她就要求小孩啊,她就有了四個欸。企業家,女性企業家生小孩有人會問她說你結婚了沒有嗎?寶丁,你有聽人家說嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
15087.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
15109.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
以前有一個跟高鐵有關的一個大型的工程公司的一個董事長,他也是一樣啊,他有小孩啊,你有跟他問說你嫁娼沒有,你有這樣問嗎?不會嘛,沒理由嘛,你問這種啊,是不是這樣?好,但是問題是為什麼代理運母,大家這麼多人反對或有爭議。我先問你,部長你喝過咖啡嗎?你喝過麝香貓咖啡嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
15111.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
15136.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
15140.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
15161.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
我平時沒吃過我都吃過松露口味冰淇淋而已,我不吃過松露。色香貓咖啡很珍惜,自然取得非常難得,我們愛好咖啡的人,假設都喜歡。但是後來我看了之後都很發現說,喔!色香貓咖啡不可以泡菜喝,他剛剛什麼原因?因為現在六大國家知道色香貓咖啡很流行啊,他把色香貓抓來關在籠子裡。 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
15163.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15187.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
每天強迫他吃咖啡豆,他自然吃飽了脹脹的就排出來嘛。那你就會這樣排出來的色香貓咖啡豆,你忍心吃嗎?有沒有對色香貓有身體上的影響?不自然。所以說,連動物權我們都要維護了。所以為什麼色香貓咖啡豆會產生這樣的一個情況呢?因為商業化。 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15188.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15212.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
如果只是一個自然的環境,原始部落的人檢視到色香貓咖啡豆自然排移的,那很自然。但是為了廣大的商業市場需求,他去捕捉了色香貓,強迫他產出,這就是商業化的後果。否則你知道我這樣拐了一個大彎,你知道為什麼代理孕母引起女權、婦女權益、重視婦女權益者的一些疑慮了吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15213.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15243.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
再下一頁。你還知道嗎?了解齁?所以我今天呢不是建議你以後不要喝社鄉貓咖啡我還建議你啊省慎的去看一下這麼多版本的人工生殖法為什麼民進黨委員所提出的沒有代理運母因為三個原因第一生育是天賦人權第二婚育是脫鉤第三不可以用商業化的方式造成人權的侵害你同意嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15246.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15271.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
我再講一次齁生育是天賦人權你同意嗎?同意我們人工生殖法透過技術的改變解決這個需求你同意嗎?同意那婚育是可以脫鉤處理的你同意嗎?我們人工生殖法有沒有限制在婚姻關係裡面才可以從事?有沒有規定?沒有嘛但是最後我們就擔心的是什麼?這樣的一個醫學技術如果被商業化 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15272.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15287.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
我再問一下,抱歉,在我村區裡面,我有個村民過去都要洗身,一段時間沒看到,回來氣勢很好,問說你最近氣什麼?他說出國渡假,你怎麼去哪裡渡假?我們事務委員都知道,他去對面渡假,幾個月後換一個郵寄回來。這種事情,我們在社會裡面都知道他的痛苦,他的無奈。 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15301.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15323.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
但是他為什麼沒有在國內做?因為國內的器官移植啊,是很嚴格的規定。我有一個很認識的好朋友,年事已高,比我年紀還大的媽媽,為了自己的孩子,為了自己的老公,我忘了是老公還是孩子,我真的忘記了齁,但是都很重要的一個人,他把他的腎捐給他。那是親人之間的互助。一旦商業化,你覺得會不會有風險? |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15327.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15349.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
會不會有風險?當然會有風險所以說嘛我們沒有反對任何可能性但是人工生殖既然急迫需要解決一些人的問題但是不能解決所有人的所有問題是不是我們人工生殖法繼續推進但是有商業化把母體商業化風險的這個代理孕母我們暫時的求同存異脫鉤處理你支持嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15350.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15351.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
謝主席,有請邱部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15384.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15400.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
委員黃邱部長辛苦我想今天我們討論人工生殖法那我們期待喔真的能這個法能趕快通過那前提就是說我們為了單身女性跟女同志配偶的生育權那我想這個是相當重要那當然大家談到代理孕母 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15403.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15428.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
那因為代理育母是一項牽涉到生命安全跟醫療福利還有倫理問題的制度所以這個跟單身女性跟女同志配偶的生育權所考量的問題其實還有一段距離所以我覺得脫鉤真的對兩邊都是好事那我們當然修法的過程當然就是一步一步來嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15429.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15456.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
在遇到這個代理孕母有爭議的部分當然就是要謹慎來思考看怎麼樣來尋求解方我覺得這才是我們負責任的做法所以也要全方面的考量那我們剛剛很多委員都提到代理孕母的制度我覺得最重要的癥結點就是說我們不能忽視那頭房間裡的大象怎麼說因為這個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15457.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15460.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15482.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15505.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
這必須要好好被思考跟來處理另外我們要考量什麼叫做女性同意擔任代理孕母我們想19世紀馬克思在資本論他就有描述童工的處境他說當時的工廠主宣稱童工都是自願犧牲他的休息跟玩耍甚至他的吃飯時間自願在廠房來擔任這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15510.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15533.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案〉案,但我們很明顯知道這種說法在本質上它就是沒有在顧慮到人的處境所以在21世紀的現在的我們應該不能步上這個無視人的這種後塵那上一次的質詢我就有提到我今天再講一次代理孕母從懷孕到生產的過程它其實就是一個勞動的過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15535.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15550.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15563.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15579.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
那一個勞動基準法在臺灣實施那麼久為什麼還有這些血汗、高工時、過勞這些代名詞形容臺灣的勞動現場就是說這一部法律也未必能保障所有臺灣勞動者的這個勞動權益更何況我們未來如果代理孕母的產生它是一個近10個月不分昼夜高工時、高強度、高風險的一個勞動過程那這樣的勞動權益誰要來顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15592.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15609.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
所以我想說這個都是一個非常堅設的一個兼具的一個工程一個兼具的課題所以這個都要好好的思考所以代理運母的勞動我想這個也是要來思考部長你覺得我這樣說有沒有道理是是你先這樣是 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15610.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15625.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
對,那所以我覺得代理孕母既然我們要思考層面那麼多那我們既然也希望人工生殖法可以慢慢推進包括單身的女性或者是女同志所以我覺得這部分我們如果說因為代理孕母需要比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15626.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15631.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案件 條文修正草案 案件 條文修正草案 案件 條文修正草案 案件 條文修正草案 案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15645.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15647.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案 》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15662.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15671.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第1次聯席會議．事由．立法院第1次聯席會議．事由．立法院第1次聯席會議．事由．立法院第1次聯席會議．事由．立法院第1次聯席會議．事由．立法院第1次聯席會議．事由．立法院第1次聯席會議． |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15690.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15692.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
謝謝林委員、謝謝部長。我們現在休息20分鐘。 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15719.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15732.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
擬具、「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員林 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15739.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15749.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 案 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 、委 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15771.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15771.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員第1屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15846.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15846.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15941.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15941.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案﹑事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員等19屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19屆第2會期社會福利及法 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15990.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15991.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案﹑事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案﹑事由．立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案﹑事由．立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案﹑事由．立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案﹑事由� |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
17135.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
17139.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
好,我們現在繼續開會。我們請王正熙委員質詢。謝謝主席。那我們再請邱部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
17156.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
17159.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
陳菁徽等22人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
17182.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
17184.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
17202.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
17226.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
其實大家也一直在說賴清德當時候的委員在2002年的時候第5屆第一會期他那時候也擔任召委所以他們提出那個人工生殖法草案的過程裡面也是有非常多的討論跟在處理當中後來為什麼會針對這個人工生殖法得到一個最後的結論 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
17228.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
17254.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
的確那個時候包括賴醫師還有簡兆棟醫師這都是我們的前輩很可惜簡兆棟醫師是剛好最近他過世了非常可惜他們是同意的同意的理由是因為他們認為醫學科技進步到現在那個當時應該要讓想瘦想孕但身體不允許的女性有代理孕母這種選擇方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
17256.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
17270.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
但是同時那個時候也是另外一個高明健醫師他是個神尖外科醫師他代表親民黨另外國民黨的梁立煌立委他們都持相位保守的一個態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
17271.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
17295.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
他們的保守態度並不是說認為這個在技術上的問題而是很擔心如果草率通過的話可能會導致代理孕母犯難衝擊原來的夫妻關係因為畢竟嬰兒是有生命的不像商品賣掉就沒事了我想跟我們今天討論的過程應該是還是有一些類似 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
17296.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
17319.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
所以最後的結果就是他在提案三年以後就因為這個相關的關係法案主要都是為了要確保不孕者與人工生殖子女的權益將提出新版本那時候賴總統賴清德委員是這樣講那刪除原版有關代理孕母的章節那時候行政院也準備要針對代理 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
17320.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
17345.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案。」案。因為這樣的努力跟後來經過大家的這些折衝以後終於這個2007年三讀通過沒有包含代理孕母的人工生殖法這個是今天今天是12月3號經濟日報一個報導我想這樣相對可以讓大家更理解雖然賴總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
17346.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
17373.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
在那個時候是非常認同人工生殖法裡面如果有相關的代孕的話是有幫助需要的有需求者可是也因為有太多不同的想法跟意見所以經過處理以後人工生殖法那時候就沒有包含這個代理孕母的部分所以我想透過這個報導大家也可以比較清楚知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
17374.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
17395.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
在總統並沒有改變他的意見他只是因為各種處理的需求之下我們現在看到了這個結果那從這邊來出發我們來了解為什麼為什麼我們會認為需要透過我們針對於婦女懷孕到生產到胎兒當中有多少風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
17397.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
17419.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
大家應該不要以為懷孕生產是很自然很低風險的一個對於要當媽媽的人還是需要注意這樣的風險對於社會來講他也要注意到生產生一個寶寶出來不是那麼容易那這個風險到底有多高 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
17420.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
17439.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
我們可以看到到2021年那一年的新生兒死亡人數是425人每千位的活產裡面死亡率是2.7為了要懷一個寶寶要生產當年的孕婦死亡22人每死亡活產就有14位 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
17440.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
17466.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
那這樣的成績跟全球比起來到底好不好?其實如果跟OECD國家比較起來我們真的是有很大需要進步的空間因為我們跟日本跟韓國比起來這個數字呢都是會讓我們心驚膽跳人數看起來好像不多可是比例我們應該可以讓它更改善這是孕婦死亡的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
17466.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
17468.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
在科學上很難做到零死亡,我們都理解。可是如果其他國家可以那麼好,那台灣我們可以怎麼做會比較好呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
17491.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
17510.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
在請部長回答之前我們先了解一下人工生殖出來的這些寶寶們他們其實有一些是具有人工缺陷人工造成了一些身體或體狀上的問題那這個萬一是代理孕母生下來以後其實前面的委員也都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
17511.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
17530.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案件、司法及法制委員陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案件、司法及法制委員陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案件、司法及法制委員陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案件、司法及法制委員陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案件、司法及法制委員陳菁徽等19人 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
17538.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
17565.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
我想這個就是我們現在的一個健康數據裡面我們醫界的一個痛點也是我們一直想要努力的在健康台灣裡面也特別針對新生偶死亡率的一個降低來做一個非常大的重要的目標我想這個從運期到新生偶的團隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
17567.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
17572.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
擬具、「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
17582.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
17598.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院等19人擬具:「 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
17598.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
17626.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．司法及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法� |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
17628.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
17647.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員．立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
17654.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
17671.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文� |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
17682.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
17691.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
有關於代理孕母入法其實還有三個地方要非常注意的包括說我們剛剛有看到台灣目前不管是 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
17693.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
17719.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
自然生產或者是透過人工生殖法所生出來的這些寶寶們他們的醫療跟健康風險目前似乎是無法排除的那如果無法排除的話那萬一代理孕母又入法那從人權、從倫理還有法律的角度那我們可以允許健康風險轉嫁到另外一位他要幫人家做一個代理孕母的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
17721.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
17725.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案»案。netesle等19人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
17730.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
17734.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員及法制委員等19人擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
17752.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
17770.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
好,這也是大家所擔心的啦齁,那我想我們未來齁,在第二階段的來處理這個部分的時候,會把這些問題,不管是在它的位階,或者它的內容,做更周全的討論跟共識。是。 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
17771.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
17797.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
所以如果能夠讓已經有很好共識而且基本上那風險相對是可以接受的我們希望他能夠在這個可以討論之下大家共同來確立那如果是真的非常非常多的這些不同意見的話我想真的大家要三思那最後其實要麻煩陸理面要來加強對代理業母嬰兒風險的研究我們剛剛看到的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
17798.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
17819.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
一般的這些懷孕的過程裡面不管是死亡率或者是這個新生兒的這些問題那對於代理孕母他有多少風險也許當然我們自己台灣沒有相關的資料可是國際上應該有一些資料可以當參考那今年的在6月25號報導者他們就有報導相關的經驗給大家做參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
17823.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
17847.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
另外荷蘭針對於代理孕母10年的經驗裡面他們是立他的這種代理孕母之下他們研究發現說代理孕母跟一般的這個來孕的過程其實真的風險是不一樣的所以這些資訊希望透過部裡面不管是要自行研究或委託專家學者來做研究也希望讓這個資訊能夠讓更多的民眾可以知悉 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
17848.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
17856.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
好的,我們在這方面再收集更多的資料。好,謝謝主席。好,謝謝王委員,謝謝。謝謝王委員,謝謝部長。那接下來我們請陳培宇委員質詢。好,謝謝主席。那我想要直接請國建署署長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
17875.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
17903.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
好,署長你好喔從今天早上到現在非常多的委員都在關心代理孕母那你們的說法一再的調整但是我其實今天因為您之前的說法或者是很多委員也都幫您說說你們召開了非常多的專家學者會議開了無數場那我現在就幫你把你們所預告的人工生殖法裡面我們辦公室認為你們沒有顧慮到的部分告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
17904.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
17919.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
請你回答我你們到底有沒有針對我們等一下要說的真的做過研究來下一頁這是你們的預告草案裡面你們自己提到有一個部分叫做瘦數異性伴侶你們開了一個新的可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
17919.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
17937.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
我看來你們這是想要保障所有女性生育自主權我認為這是很前進的想法可是我們回到法律的落實層面如同剛剛王振旭醫師也說了很多的配套我們看不見可能性我們甚至擔心你們根本沒有想到可能會產生的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
17940.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
17954.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
現在的大家都關注女同性配偶關注未婚女性可是你們瘦素異性伴侶你說具有親密性排他性同才共居的未婚異性伴侶也可以適用人工生殖技術生育子女這是你們寫的對不對對嗎署長是好署長那我們就來聊一聊什麼叫做瘦素異性伴侶 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
17963.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
17982.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
你認為你們當時為什麼把它寫進去?那我想問你一個問題,如果今天有伴侶的未婚女性,她選擇去做一個公證,叫做我跟我的伴侶叫做授訴異性伴侶,可是我可不可以選擇不要用我伴侶的金子,然後我跑去登記我要做人工生殖,然後我就是選擇用未婚女性的名義,這樣可以嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
17986.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
18009.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
以憲政的法規規定的話那麼監證者必須是匿名那我們在這裡的時候設計是監證者他有同意或匿名兩種方式你還是沒有回答我啊我跟我的伴侶並沒有去法律上登記結婚我們跑去做一個公證就是你們這裡提供的叫授書異性伴侶所以我並不知道授書異性伴侶的女性 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
18010.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
18027.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
在這個關係當中的女性我選擇不要用我伴侶的金子我選擇用捐贈者的金子可不可以就是我的投影片右邊我幫你框起來的第二條他不使用異性伴侶的金子這可不可以你沒有辦法具體的回答再來一個更可怕的事情是這個異性伴侶的關係算不算是一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
18028.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
18029.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
18051.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
18072.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
如果我跟我的異性伴侶只有公正認定我們兩個叫做異性伴侶但是如果有一天我們兩個親密關係消滅的時候我們的親權要如何分配相關民法、親屬還有繼承法規範的部分我們現在完全看不到你們任何說法所以我不知道你的專家學者會議裡面有沒有討論過這件事情或是法務部有沒有跟你們提醒過這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
18075.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
18102.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
謝謝委員其實我們在討論裡面其實都有討論到所以你們會如何確定我剛剛講的所以當你們真的要讓這個法就這樣通過快速炒出來通過的時候請問你有考慮到我想的這些問題嗎?它跟民法之間的關係呢?所以到底是要保障女子的生育權益還是要保障兒少最佳利益?我看不出來謝謝委員當初預告版裡面的確有你寫的這些問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
18103.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
18118.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
這是你寫的,不是我寫的。的確有上面所寫的、顯示的這些問題。好,那我再告訴你,還有另外一個問題,應該沒有什麼人發現,我非常謝謝我的辦公室同仁。下一個。在《民法》裡面,在這個投影片的右手邊是《民法》。《民法》裡面有講到 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
18119.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
18146.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
如果一旦先生可以證明他的同意是受到詐欺或脅迫可以發現被詐欺或脅迫終止後6個月提起否認之處受到詐欺者自子女出生之日滿3年不得為之可是回到你們的人工生殖法你們公布的人工生殖法裡面把民法92條這條拿掉了本條不適用喔所以按照你們衛福部現在的修法議職裡面如果這個修法通過了即便當事人被騙或被迫成是人工生殖都得履行到底嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
18148.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
18154.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
你直接把民法92條說不適用欸,你們跟法務部討論過了嗎?你們確定這樣不會有問題嗎?再往下。好,再往下喔。呃,這個胚胎這個部分我們來看一下右手邊。瘦素配偶A是綠色圈圈,他們作為人工生殖後產生胚胎α,瘦素配偶B這是橘色的,我問你有沒有植入錯誤的可能性? |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
18173.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
18191.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
你們有沒有研究相關案例?如果有植入錯誤的胚胎被植入當事人體內這樣的親子關係又要如何處理?現行的法規可以處理嗎?衛福部預告草案的內容可以處理嗎?這種情況被植入胚胎的受孕婦女她跟這個受孕婦女完全沒有血緣關係而是別人的胚胎那這樣不就是另外一種待遇了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
18192.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
18209.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
那這個部分你們衛福部有沒有解方?你們有沒有研究過國外的相關案例?署長我跟你說在美國就有相關案例發生2003年的時候一對白人夫妻跟黑人夫妻他們被措職了胚胎結果一對白人夫妻他們就生出雙胞胎一個是白人寶寶一個是黑人寶寶 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
18211.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
18224.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
18241.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
18244.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
還是你們已經都準備好配套了?我們不用擔心。有關剛剛提到的第一個問題的確在預告版裡面我剛剛提到有,但是我們最後經過討論那個條文我們後來是會刪掉的。為什麼要刪掉?剛剛提到的我們就發現如同這個委員所說的。那還有這個你們把民法92條也拔掉這個部分你們覺得都沒問題嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
18271.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
18272.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
我只是要提醒你有這麼多這麼多的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
18276.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
18301.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
我只是要提醒你,連我現在問的這些問題你都沒有辦法回答我,那如果真的出事了怎麼辦?當你們把子女最佳利益跟婦女生育自主的部分,如果有發生衝突,我認為其實有很多很多的事情都還需要細緻的討論。所以我自己才會堅決反對,如果在現行的人工生殖法修法過程,我們可以先把女同志還有單身女性的部分先放入,是不是可以讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
18301.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
18316.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
真的有需要的人趕快使用到相關法規範的福利跟照顧,但是真的有那麼多爭議跟法規範都還沒有辦法解決的問題,我們是不是應該後續再來處理?目前已經決定透過了。好,謝謝署長正面的回應,謝謝。謝謝,謝謝陳委員,謝謝署長。那,劉建國要來。來,我們請劉建國委員質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
18336.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
18360.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
好,謝謝主席。主席辛苦。有請部長。部長,你好。部長,你也辛苦。我想今天討論這個人工生殖法的修法,各黨團體都有提出不同意見跟修法這個方向,相關的版本。關於代孕這個議題,我想台灣已經討論多年了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
18361.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
18382.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
但是在修法討論之前有一些問題還是需要做詳細的討論跟徹底的釐清所以我們希望這個制度建立能夠盡可能做到這個風險積低然後避免爭議這樣才能夠讓有需求的民眾有所保障也讓社會大眾可以去理解然後了解到整個這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
18383.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
18389.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 條文修正草案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
18408.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
18425.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
你應該要再嗯久一點這都經過專家的會議當然是有一定的我是請教是代孕的制度有準備好了嗎代孕制度的上路是我已經做好準備啦應該這麼講嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
18427.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
18450.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
有跟沒有嗎?因為這個都是一直在討論嘛,那我們聽到更多的聲音就覺得說還不足。是,所以等於就是還沒有準備好嘛,應該是這麼說嘛,不然就直接了當回答,因為我說問事情也都很直接了當的啦齁。那我給部長做一個,有一個資料做參考齁,你看這個螢幕裡面,這寫得非常清楚齁,這個是這個刊登在 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
18451.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
18477.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
內科醫學年鑑還有認證攜帶者中嚴重的孕產婦和新生兒的發病率。這個世代研究的統計資料是說研究人員發現代孕孕婦出現嚴重產婦併發症的比例為7.8然後是自然懷孕的孕婦發生率的2.3等於是高達3倍多然後幾乎是透過體外受精受孕的孕婦發生率是4.3的2倍多 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
18479.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
18490.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
也就是說自然懷孕的風險由夫妻來自身承擔那代孕的這個代孕者的這個懷孕的風險原受試的夫妻要如何來承擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
18492.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
18514.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
那代孕的制度如果上路,那相關的風險也應該必須要好好去嚴格的來降低嘛。看誰要配到來做降低嘛。我是簡單講這一個啦,因為這是研究的一個刊登在內科醫學連線還有相關的一些世代研究裡面的報導。這個資料你們應該有吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
18520.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
18531.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
對,這個資料出來的時候應該我們就有相關的一些一些因應的降低的這個風險還是說元壽司的夫妻他們要來如何承擔這個我們有相關的配套嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
18535.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
18550.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
謝謝委員我想如何去保障跟建立代孕者的風險那當然就必須要透過相關的規範包括企業包括保險包括相關的衛教評估尤其是代孕前的評估必須要完整 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
18551.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
18578.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
所以這個我們都有事先的一些我們都有事先討論過有討論過了但是還沒有還沒有說一個配套的一個初稿的成型應該是沒有吧應該是說在這個法令沒有授權的時候這些我們都有討論在準備中準備中而已嘛好那今年5月我們將這個人工生殖法的草案公告那其中有關這個代孕的相關的條文這段期間當然有些委員也針對這個在代孕的提出修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
18578.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
18607.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
那我想說衛務部公告過關於這個公告過啦關於這個代孕的修法草案以及代孕制度通過以後會變成問題相關的適應細則還有這個瘦素夫妻與代孕者適合合適的進行代孕的評估方法及認定標準代孕的契約的擬定代孕的相關的專業諮詢制度代孕的相關的會用代孕者的風險管理處理代孕適宜的服務機構等細節衛務部在這方面國健署在這方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
18609.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
18633.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
攝取到的相關領域是委員已經做好準備?我們的確在準備當中,沒有錯。對,只是準備當中啦。是,因為還有,但是這個法令還沒有完成嘛,那相關的我們還在準備當中。但是,但是當你去公告這樣的一個條文出來之後,好像人家會覺得你已經準備完善了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
18635.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
18654.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
這些行政規則或者是行政的法規當然是要在法規授權之後當然我們同時也在準備中我是覺得是這樣就是說如果五月份的公告就是要朝這個方向走那這個相關的配套 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
18655.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
18661.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
18676.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
18687.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
然後再來就是說我們在野黨團目前支持這個人工生殖網納度代孕很有可能這個代孕法規會三度通過那屆時外務部要怎麼處理這是現實現狀因為今天召委已經把這個安排進來了嘛就大家討論嘛你如果相關細則相關配套都要在討論中那現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
18705.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
18720.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
18728.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
18735.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
你們都還沒有準備到,都還在討論中,相關配套的施行細節都還沒有一個成熟的處刑的情況之下, |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
18736.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
18761.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
這個法案你們怎麼會應應?所以第一個我們跟委員報告所以因為我們覺得還有很多需要釐清需要溝通所以我們的衛生部的立場是希望先在單身女性跟女同性配偶這個部分先行那後續因為比較多需要更嚴謹來討論的來配套措施的所以我們這個部分在 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
18763.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
18774.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
第二階段以後再來,我們再好好的來演繹這樣。我剛剛請教的問題很清楚嘛,萬一這個法案三度通過,那它就沒有侷限在哪一個部分喔? |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
18775.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
18799.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
所以你回答我這樣是好像這個法律是你修的當然我們尊重立法院的各位立法委員的意見那我們站在過去多年來一直研議到怎麼樣把最先進行做好的情況之下我們目前的立場是這樣也希望委員們能夠瞭解我們現在行政部門的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
18800.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
18817.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
我現在是提出事情啦好不好我知道如果你相關的配套私營細則都還不見成熟的情況之下這個法律如果進到山土之後你會務部、國建署你們要如何去運用還是搞到最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
18819.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
18831.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
檢定零傷還沒有辦法保全這些想要代孕的對象。希望能夠溝通得更好才來處理這個法案。好,謝謝。那我請教法務部,法務部有代表吧。法務部是 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
18838.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
18850.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
關於人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案,有什麼看法和立場?在現有的法律上會不會有造成相關的一些衝突? |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
18853.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
18879.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
跟委員報告因為人工生殖子女適用民法其實是會有疑義的所以我們就比如說代理孕母是分娩者跟卵子提供者是不同的人那懷胎生產的婦女就不一定會跟所出生的子女有血緣上的聯絡那我們民法規定的設計本來是以有沒有婚姻關係所生的子女來分婚生子女或非婚生子女或者是用血緣關係來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
18881.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
18882.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案»案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
18895.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
18901.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
18923.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
18925.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
18936.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
18963.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
懷孕問題因為其實就像收養一樣因為我們代理孕母的規範如果是在人工生殖法我們就一律都是視為視為婚生子女視為就是擬製的血清就是視為就是視為這個方式就跟我們收養一樣都是擬製的血清那這個親等不會有問題親等不會有問題親等不會有問題那現在相關的版本像各位委員的相關提幹的版本你覺得有沒有什麼大的問題的存在 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
18964.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
18987.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
你們應該有解釋過了嘛對不對今天你來列席大致上的委員版本還是你都還沒有看過有看過了但是那真的很複雜那真的很複雜連你都覺得很複雜了因為這涉及到很多社會倫理還有這個兒童權益還有育母的保障他們各方面還有社會的期待要怎麼滿足其實這個還蠻複雜的這很涉及專業 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
18990.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
19008.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
擬具、「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案 案件 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案件 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案件 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案件 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案件 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案件 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
19012.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
19029.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
事實上現在如果是在國外代理育母出生的孩子他們也是看看國外的規範是怎麼樣然後再經過我們國內的法律程序可能就是用就是認領或收養或者是經過法律訴訟的程序來確認 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
19031.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
19049.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
你覺得現在這樣的法律修正是可以處理的?你要講清楚喔。你前面講很複雜,後面又講說可以處理。我覺得是有點衝突跟矛盾喔。請參事要小心回答。代理育母的這個問題,我們都尊重主管機關,如果準備好的話。但是這個問題牽涉很多很複雜。 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
19054.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
19073.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
這個一定要從長計要審慎的評估。好,你請回吧,小心啦,謝謝。好,我大致上釐清一些事情啦齁,那最後主席再給我一分鐘就好齁。這個部長你看一下頭影片。EAP,部長知道這是什麼吧?部長不知道,署長知道吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
19085.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
19089.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
市長趕快跟...市長趕快跟...市長趕快跟...市長趕快跟...市長趕快跟...市長趕快跟...市長趕快跟... |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
19103.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
19132.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
我在司法、法制委員會的時候,我追了這個事情兩年,上次總統府、下次委員還有各部會,包含現在在審預算過程裡面,我都會細看員工協助方案裡面到底怎樣去編列預算,那過去連預算科目都顯示不出來,那有的部會有預算科目顯示出來之後,編的機會少之又少,所以如何去協助這個員工,我就覺得很莫名其妙。員工發生事情我們是要接住,我們不是事後才在處理嘛,對不對?好,那你們要不要看一下你們怎麼編的? |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
19132.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
19133.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
19134.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
19150.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
這個審預算的時候,我絕對會再問部長,然後也問你們所屬的相關的機關,你們到底怎樣面對你們自己的同仁。你看下一頁,貴賀部是738,我不講那個預算跟實際的原理了,就直接講這樣的一個目前調查出來的。那738裡面員工生殖法部分條文是52,等於700人,700人一個人。社家屬159,12萬,也是700多。國界屬185,11萬,600人一個。食藥屬654,15萬,240。 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
19163.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
19179.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
Judge一、委員齊管署一、委員三、委員四、委員三、委員四、建保署兩千八百四十二位才編十六萬等於五十七人一個人。 JUDGE 你怎麼看?這樣好不好?感到? |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
19179.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
19180.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
這個應該要加強。你們預算都抽編了啊。預算都編了。現在是預算案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
19190.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
19210.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
這個我在你三位當部長之前我已經也提醒過衛生部、勞動部相關的部位我幾乎每一個部位我都有特別點到啦齁。那個到今天為止還是這個樣子。所以今天我們當覺得我們相關的單位一直出現的這個霸凌的狀況,這其實裡面有工作適應、人際婚姻、家庭照顧、健康、法律等。 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
19212.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
19217.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
19240.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
19249.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
委員林宜瑾等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
19256.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
19273.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案 人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
19278.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
19282.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
五、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案件及其他條文修正草案 案件及其他條文修正草案 案件及其他條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
19296.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
19299.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
議員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
19319.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
19332.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
你們看一下啦齁,你們回去看怎麼如果做因應了。但是最後一個表格,又更奇怪。如果現在大家在面對這種霸凌的事件,院長也都交代一個星期內必須調查清楚。你們怎麼會人員異動在國會聯絡組,後面是寫零。 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
19335.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
19343.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
委員我簡單的報告,這個部分有一個是屬於編制內的,編制內的部分我們確實是領沒錯,但是另外還有另外一個是因為我們有跟國會組這邊有跟衣服會那邊有請求他們來支援,我沒有記錯的話應該是有兩位,所以想救這個部分編制內的回答是沒錯。 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
19361.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
19372.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
所以我如果要看你的表要問得清楚,不然我也會灰醋意嘛。沒關係,那個委員我後續...你這樣說我沒有主意把這個主意拿起來問,這樣我不對耶。沒有啦,不是啦。我們要檢討啦。沒有啦,委員是我們自己啦,我們自己。沒有啦,你這個所謂到底是幾個單位是存你講這個陣營。 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
19381.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
19384.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
議員謝衣鳯等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
19412.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
19419.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
韓文凱等19人擬具、「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
19439.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
19441.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
國建署署長國建署知道大多數民眾和團體對於代理孕母的意見嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
19462.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
19487.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
我們都有在收集相關的資料跟意見。都有齁。那我想請教署長,那為什麼一開始公佈的草案條文會納入代理運母的制度呢?你們禮拜一的新聞稿說你們收到八成的意見都是反對,所以你們打算忽視這八成的意見嗎?如果你們知道這八成的意見都是反對,那禮拜一受訪的時候為什麼又說要將代理運母制度納入條文處理呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
19490.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
19507.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
我想那個版本那個草案的內容都一直在進行當中。那時候訪問的時候他的確是在進行限別影響評估當中。那還沒有最後那個合定到底要不要透過都一直在討論過程。 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
19508.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
19535.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
對阿可是我們有八成反對八成意見反對那你為什麼又說禮拜一受訪的時候要納入條文呢可是你是對媒體這樣說的欸是阿這些意見阿但是一直都是這樣的討論阿對阿我們在討論阿可是你說可是你應該要說不然我問一下我們預告的目的是什麼我們預告的目的不就是收集意見再去做一些調整嗎對不對是對嘛齁可是你現在你在禮拜一的時候說法又說是要將代理育母制度要納入條文我認為喔這個跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
19538.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
19558.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
這個如果你說你這樣子受訪可是你明明知道預告是有很多人反對意見的話我覺得這樣子的回應是非常不恰當的所以我想今天我想我們現在已經確認了我們你們說會代理育母制度要脫鉤那我也希望未來我們可以先就有共識的部分來處理來做討論可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
19561.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
19563.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
五、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
19583.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
19597.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
現在性別影響評估還在進行中,對不對?我只是想請教這個流程上面,你看如果我今天預告收集了非常多的意見回來,那我的性別影響性評估裡面萬一跟這個意見有對立的時候,那要怎麼處理呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
19601.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
19626.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
我只在想提出一個討論,拿一個想法。未來我們是不是有可能先做一個性別影響性評估?先了解,因為這是一個很重大的法案嘛,影響到女性的身體自主權嘛。我們是不是可以先做這個性別影響性評估之後,再把它併入,再把它進入這個預告的流程呢?這樣子收集來的意見,我們會不會比較好收斂呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
19627.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
19649.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
我們未來會遵守現在整體的規定,如果是可以修訂我們可以討論。好,這邊就是提供一個參考。那再來就是說,我想要針對於就是,因為大家在講這些待遇的時候,其實我比較少聽見有關於兒童權利的相關的討論。所以我也想要請教,就是部長可不可以也一併一起上來? |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
19654.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
19683.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
委員好就是說我們現在公布的這個草文條案呢跟兒童有關係的是42條到第46條那有關於兒童在成長階段對於自己的身世感到疑惑想要進一步了解自己身世的時候呢有關的條文就是在上面寫的這一條子女有權查詢捐贈人的種族膚色和血型以及其他有沒有違反資訊醫療資訊或違反法律的情形但是我們也有另外一條喔其實是有規定喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
19686.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
19707.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
擬具:「醫療機構要收集捐贈人的身份證字號和病歷等資訊,有身份證字號基本上就跟你有個資是一模一樣的東西。」擬具:「所以到底在這個立法說明上面,你們說是這樣的資訊落差是要在平衡捐贈人的隱私以及人工生殖子女的血緣認知權和兒少最佳利益。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
19708.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
19732.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
那我想問喔如果說我們現在這個法規執行的那就有可能人工生殖的子女在成長過程之中他如果想要了解自己的身世的時候他只能得到膚色、種族以及血型但是他明明就知道政府和醫療機構其實擁有所有的個資這條法告訴他就是我們都知道但你不能查詢我想了解這件事情呢到底會不會影響到 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
19734.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
19751.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
對自己的定位、對自己的認知產生疑惑,會不會影響到他的生長,在這過程之中有沒有一些什麼樣子的挫折,會不會影響到他自己各種的一些認同等等的。我想知道這個兒童權益的影響性評估到底有沒有做啊? |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
19753.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
19768.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
我們這個預告版的確有做兒童潛力追加評估,那現在的透過版也有在做兒童潛力評估。我想知道可不可以再給我簡單的說明是怎麼做的呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
19768.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
19793.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
就是我們的兒少的委員來幫我們審查整個法案到底有沒有哪一些缺失或者哪一些需要改進的哪一些違反兒少權利的部分這個是當初所規定的那這個法條的設計其實跟委員報告兒童成長到18歲成年或者是他中間碰到有一些生理疾病會得導致現身血緣的關係的時候那他可以提出請求要支息 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
19794.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
19816.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
當然也要尊重那個當初見證者同不同意,如果同意的話就可以讓他自息。所以我想確認一下,所以聽起來在這個部分我們在兒少影響性評估的時候,專家學者有提供的意見就是到18歲的時候他可以請求,是嗎?是。好,那我也想了解另外一個問題是說,如果今天這個小孩他是先天性疾患, |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
19817.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
19843.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
他出生了那這個時候他到底代理育母說要託付要請代理育母生的這個就算買主好了啦這個買主他說這個小孩我不要那代理育母也沒有辦法去照顧他的時候那這個小孩到底該怎麼辦啊這個法律上規定的就是說當他委託企業成立了以後未來剩下的子女就是委託這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
19845.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
19859.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
未來判斷的子女就是委託者是不是?好那如果說在這個假設他在成長的過程之中遇到了一些假設這個委託者就心不甘情不願啊把他送出去啊送養的話那這個對這樣子的小孩子來說公平嗎?這個必須要說法律上規定我們在系列上就已經有說明了跟委員做報告那如果未來假設有這樣的這樣的法律進行討論的時候有規範不足的時候也謝謝委員給我們指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
19874.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
19894.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
好沒關係齁因為我想要了解因為你們竟然說你有做兒少的影響性評估嘛那我就希望把這完整的報告提供到我的辦公室我想要來詳細的研讀到底有哪些部分我們還應該要再來去做討論的齁因為我覺得這個兒少的權益是在我的所有討論中比較少聽見的齁那再來喔就是說呃 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
19904.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
19928.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
草案第21條有規定委託配偶的身份條件。其中第一項第五款第四目裡面有規定同志家庭的身份。第四目說委託的配偶都必須是男性,就可以委託進行人工生殖。第五目則說女同志家庭必須兩邊都有無子宮無法懷孕免疫疾病生命威脅,其中一項狀況才能進行人工生殖。 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
19929.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
19953.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
我想請教我有點疑惑男同志家庭沒有上述的健康疑慮就可以委託做這個人工生殖嗎?但是為什麼女同志家庭一定要雙方都有生理上的疑慮才能委託呢?這個法條設計是什麼?是基於什麼樣子的原因呢?所以我們已經假設女同志家庭一定會代孕嗎?其中一人一定會代孕嗎?假設他要做代孕的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
19956.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
19976.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
這兩個是不一樣跟剛剛提到的如果是女同志她自己用自己的那當然就在人工生殖法去規定的這個是有關代孕的部分而且在上面寫的就是說他必須就是委託的那委託才有這個限制委託的時候才會有這個限制嗎可是男生男同志上面好像就沒有相關的健康疑慮就可以委託進行人工生殖欸這好像是對於女同志來說要求比較高欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
19984.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
19987.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
20008.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
20034.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
發言去講這是女人和女人的戰爭我認為這樣子的一個發言其實是非常輕蔑的因為這其實是對女性影響非常盛大的重大的一個法案而且這個法案之所以會起來都是有相當多的女性是為了男人去滿足傳宗接代的任務所以今天才會有一部分的人必須去做這樣子的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
20035.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
20049.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
我認為身為一位男性,尤其還是一位醫師的蘇清泉召委,不應該以一種隔岸觀火的態度來看待這個法案。我希望未來蘇清泉委員在相關的發言上面都可以更為慎重,而且更有性別平等的意識。謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
20069.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
20072.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
好,謝謝主席。我先請部長。好,部長好。我先就一個問題先問一下部長。單身女性跟女同志配偶,我想只要有能力,那她也有意願要來做生養,國家是不是應該請全力來支持保障他們的生育自主? |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
20097.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
20118.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
是的 我們現在的立場就是這樣子好 這個立場不變齁好 那如果說要放寬現行的人工生殖法是用自己的身份不限於異性夫妻女性不論是她的婚姻的狀況其實都可以用自己的子宮生自己的孩子讓家的面貌更加的多元讓女性的人生規劃更有彈性 對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
20121.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
20135.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
對沒錯嘛是吧這個是我們自主女性對自己的職工有自主的權利嘛是不是選擇生或者是不生那我想這個部分應該沒有太多的疑義對不對是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
20136.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
20155.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
現今其實最多的聲音是在於所謂的代理孕母的部分那我想剛剛所講的這些不管是單身女性或者是女同事配偶是適用於這個人工生殖法我們是不是應該這個是已經有高度的社會共識包含剛剛部長您也回答我了這個我們先優先來處理是的沒錯吧是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
20158.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
20180.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
接下來我們要來談到所謂的代理孕母的部分了我想代理孕母在目前這個所謂的共識其實在我們的聽到不管是民眾的聲音不管是女性的聲音其實這個部分都有很大的一個爭議那我想懷孕生子的過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].start |
20181.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].end |
20183.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].text |
一、委員陳菁徽等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].start |
20200.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].end |
20211.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].start |
20224.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].end |
20236.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].text |
因為這個其實是跟女性的健康有關。我不曉得部長知不知道35歲以下的女性用人工生殖技術他們的活產率是多少?您知道嗎?使用人工35% |
| transcript.whisperx[723].start |
20243.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].end |
20261.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].text |
只有35%但是人工的生殖的技術也在這所謂的35歲以下的女性他們要成功懷孕也至少要試上兩次三次甚至多則七八次九十次您知道吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].start |
20263.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].end |
20288.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].text |
要經過比較多次是我了解。再來我們再講到為什麼會有這麼大的一個爭議最主要的是因為利他代孕只能給予必要的成本費用但是為人家代孕者其實多數是屬於所謂的經濟弱勢我相信這個在各國我們看到有所謂的代理孕母的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].start |
20289.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].end |
20301.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].text |
我相信部長你應該也時有所聞其實這對弱勢者來講他必須要高度付出的這個所謂的健康上的代價這個其實就是相對的剝削您同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].start |
20303.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].end |
20324.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].text |
好沒關係您在這裡可以不用回答但我們必須說這的確是剝削這對女性自主的一個身體上的健康的疑慮它的確是有一個一定的剝削好那另外呢我再次提醒喔就是許多的支持代孕的聲音都會是因為來自婆家的壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].start |
20325.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].end |
20345.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].text |
再來因為女人不能生我覺得我不完整包含陳昭之委員他在面對媒體訪問的時候在節目上說出養子對我而言終究是外人是別人的孩子如果有代孕幫我生下我血顏的孩子我不會選擇養子來到我們家他的孩子從7個月到現在30歲了應該如果我沒記錯的話如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].start |
20354.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].end |
20362.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].text |
檸子出現在他的生活當中聽到自己的媽媽講出這種話。部長您做何感受啊?做何感受?應該是不太好的感受吧。所以怎麼可以因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].start |
20373.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].end |
20383.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第1次聯席會議．立法院第2次聯席會議．立法院第1次聯席會議．立法院第2次聯席會議．立法院第2次聯席會議．立法院第2次聯席會議．立法院第2次聯席會議．立法院第2次聯席會議．立法院第2次聯席會議．立法院第2次聯席會議．立法院第2次聯席會議．立法院第2次聯席會議．立法院第2次聯席會議．立法院第2次聯席會議．立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].start |
20402.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].end |
20402.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].text |
議員林宜瑾等19人 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].start |
20424.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].end |
20437.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].text |
另外我再次提到如果代理育母我們假設一個狀況幫別人在做代孕的這個所謂的母體她自己本身在她的自己原生的家庭她是一個母親 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].start |
20438.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].end |
20453.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].text |
﹏如果剛剛我講的在懷孕的過程當中不要講到說是35歲以下我們講到任何年紀懷孕他都有承擔在整個所有的孕期30幾週38週的整個所有的過程都有可能會是風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].start |
20455.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].end |
20469.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].start |
20471.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].end |
20477.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案件及其他條文修正草案 案件及其他條文修正草案 案件及其他條文修正草案 案件及其他條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].start |
20491.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].end |
20513.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].text |
那如果剛剛講到幫人代孕者這個母體母親在懷孕的過程當中他發生了健康上重大的危機跟風險甚至死亡剝奪了人家本來在家庭當中他是一個母親的權利剝奪了孩子失去了母親我們衛福部請問可以承擔嗎?可以承擔嗎?署長我最想的就是問你你可以承擔嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[736].start |
20521.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].end |
20523.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].text |
擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案》案。Reporter 林宜瑾等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].start |
20546.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].end |
20555.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].text |
待遇的爭議非常之大。如果我們真的要跟人工生殖技術要來一併做討論,我個人堅決反對,本席堅決反對,他應該要來做脫鉤處理。是,我們的立場現在是這樣。好,謝謝部長,謝謝署長,謝謝主席。 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].start |
20567.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].end |
20580.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].text |
謝謝郭委員 謝謝部長陳俊宇委員不在高金素美高金素美高金素美委員不在陳穎委員質詢請謝謝主席 麻煩請我們衛福部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].start |
20600.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].end |
20621.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].text |
委員好。部長好。那個上個禮拜二我跟我們臺東部立議院院長,那我們去臺東到長濱去宣導一個有關於這個智慧手環的這個計畫。那當然關於這個原鄉結合智慧科技的社區健康營造政策,我從2021年開始就爭取推動花蓮豐濱辦理這個科技與醫療計畫。 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].start |
20626.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].end |
20640.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].text |
那我也爭取了這個臺東長濱和成功事辦這個社區智能整合健康今年開始辦理喔那這兩個計畫都是屬於運用智慧科技結合長者健康照顧的政策這個對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].start |
20642.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].end |
20660.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第1屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].start |
20670.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].end |
20687.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].start |
20692.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].end |
20707.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].text |
我那天去才發現定位的功能還可以同步讓你在全國各地工作的孩子們、家人們可以知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].start |
20708.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].end |
20725.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案 案 等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].start |
20736.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].end |
20738.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].text |
擬具〈人工生殖法部分條文修正草案〉案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].start |
20748.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].end |
20770.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].text |
我想這個當然除此之外就是說我剛剛補充一下我覺得這次去有學到一件蠻重要的事情就多人關懷這個部分我覺得很棒是因為他人數你即便到1000人他都還是可以有辦法處理的所以很多人一起來關懷家裡的長輩這是很棒的 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].start |
20771.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].end |
20785.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 、委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].start |
20787.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].end |
20816.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].text |
當然我想部立院也有注意到就是在這個健康照護員的部分他們都有多少有一些族語的訓練這是很棒的但是我覺得可能這個部分還要再多加強一點因為畢竟比如說你跟老人家說這個要測血氧或者是有一些其實蠻多的這個專業術語或者是在介紹使用的過程當中還有操作 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].start |
20816.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].end |
20819.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].start |
20840.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].end |
20850.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].text |
在去分享這些資訊的時候,其實那個氣氛是好的,效果也是好的。所以這個部分我就特別建議就可以再加強一些。 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].start |
20853.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].end |
20855.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].text |
二、委員林宜瑾 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].start |
20882.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].end |
20908.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].text |
委員一下我真的非常感謝委員長期為我們原鄉的居民的健康努力特別這個計畫非常有創建也是一個很好的示範所以我們在也為請我們的醫護會醫護會這邊在請台東醫院來進行那其實成效相當的好我們現在在成功跟長濱已經提供了1105個個案服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].start |
20911.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].end |
20936.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].text |
那我相信這樣的一個那個委員這樣爭取這樣一個典範的一個做法應該是一個未來在偏鄉地區可以把它更加的廣泛來落實是,那我想部長特別講到關鍵字,廣泛落實那我就要跟部長報告一個數據我們台東就是我們全國5萬多位長者是獨居的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].start |
20938.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].end |
20957.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].text |
關於我們台東兩千多位獨居長者,其實他們的占比是我們全台東是第一名,百分之五點五一。平均值是平均值的五倍。我們的台東第一名就是獨居老人最多的第一名。 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].start |
20959.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].end |
20977.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].text |
在加上像花東、交通它整個地形就是很狹長啦你真的那個集中症那個真的要處理起來所以及早發現這件事情是很重要的所以我在這裡具體建議要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].start |
20981.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].end |
21004.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].text |
檸檬花蓮等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案﹚立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案﹚立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案﹚立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案﹚立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案﹚立法院第2會期 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].start |
21005.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].end |
21008.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].text |
三、委員林宜瑾等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].start |
21030.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].end |
21045.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].text |
對,那因為我按照數據比來這個臺東,我們依序是不是就是臺東做完花蓮座嗎?那這個部分你們研議大概需要多久?一個月行不行? |
| transcript.whisperx[759].start |
21049.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].end |
21074.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].text |
首先謝謝委員對我們這個支持不管是在成功還是長兵的啟動還是期中推廣會都是每一個活動都熱情的跟我們全程參與給我們做鼓勵這個計畫我們會遵照委員指示來盡量能夠推廣但是當然有在經費上面我們需要爭取經費的爭取如果能夠順利的話那我們在推廣上就會更加的順暢 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].start |
21076.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].end |
21101.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].text |
好,那部長已經說要廣泛落實嘛,他都已經給方向,所以部長應該會支持啦。我想做得好的地方我們就去把它擴張嘛。那個花蓮也是很需要,我想我們就對,啊那我想如果就是反正我們大概東部優先來處理這個示範的部分。我們重視東部的全線實施這樣。好,謝謝。那我們是不是這個計畫研議一個月內可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].start |
21105.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].end |
21132.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].text |
請義父,沒關係,我們把計畫演繹看怎麼樣來進行,我一個月跟委員辦公室這邊報告。另外我快速的提一個很嚴重的問題,就是說也是要問一下醫事司,不然部長回答也是可以,因為大家都醫生都會知道,一個人如果心跳停止的時候會呈現什麼情形? |
| transcript.whisperx[762].start |
21136.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].end |
21141.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].text |
心跳停止心跳停止人會呈現什麼狀況? |
| transcript.whisperx[763].start |
21143.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].end |
21168.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].text |
如果心跳停止,血液就沒辦法到全身、沒辦法到腦部,就會昏迷。對。然後可能因為就會...沒有意識了嘛。就會延期休克,甚至死亡。好。那如果一個人他可以傳Line,還可以拍照,然後他還可以講話,他可以很清楚有意識的跟人家溝通,那這個人應該不會是心跳停止吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[764].start |
21169.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].end |
21170.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].text |
這個時候應該不是心跳停止。 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].start |
21199.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].end |
21220.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].text |
等19人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案》案。adequate 家人大概兩年四十到達醫院,家屬看到這個患者的時候他的意識是清楚,只是說他痛到快要沒有辦法講話,那這位主人在急診的時候有做這個心電圖跟初學檢查的等等這些檢查。那後來這個主人在醫院的期間病況就越來越嚴重,後來在9月28號的時候很不幸他就走了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].start |
21221.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].end |
21249.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].text |
此家屬在院方的急診上認為說院方是不是在急診上有什麼樣疏失的情形所以申請了診斷證明還有在這個院期間所有的檢查的資料結果看到這個診斷證明書之後全家都沒有辦法接受因為上面寫著他竟然寫著到院前心跳停止所以他們接到的是一個心跳停止的患者的這個LINE嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[767].start |
21250.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].end |
21250.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].text |
我聽副處長說這個後來有更正 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].start |
21278.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].end |
21304.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].text |
但這樣子的是因為後面可以更正所以沒有關係不是沒有關係就是要當然要檢討我想說縱使我們現在AI科技很發達那可能診斷證明就還是必須要由這個醫師人工填寫他診斷證明有誤差可能有時候在所難免但是當然心血管疾病的變化很快也是大家可以理解只是說這樣的診斷證明 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].start |
21307.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].end |
21311.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].text |
部長你還是覺得這個是可以接受的錯誤嗎?而且這個還是我們的不利意願欸。這個可能要...這種錯誤到底我們可能要仔細來研究它整個過程。因為它說下面有寫到即等於當日接受緊急心腦管手術及艾克膜置放。 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].start |
21333.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].end |
21347.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].text |
這個部分就是如果說他一來就必須要越課嘛,表示他心臟當時的狀況是不太好。不過你說他又會跟家人講話。還在傳賴啊。那是在監獄上還會傳賴嗎?他到時候還有議事啊。這樣是比較奇怪。 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].start |
21354.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].end |
21371.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].text |
所以那個我想除了診斷證明這個烏龍以外齁那家屬明明填寫就是說在院期間的所有檢查資料包括抽血心電圖等等那他在急診室的時候明明有做過三次的心電圖可是醫院給的資料卻只有一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].start |
21372.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].end |
21401.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].text |
如果從前面的疏失一直到後面又掃東掃西的那你覺得你是家屬的話你會覺得對這家醫院所有的一切你會有什麼想法而且這個人死了我們都理解因為我們處理很多醫療疏失我們都不願意再給醫護人員醫師醫護人員一些壓力但是我想我想這樣子的疏失好其實是 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].start |
21402.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].end |
21406.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].text |
三、委員林宜瑾等21人擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].start |
21426.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].end |
21434.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].text |
我想這個態度都不是很可以接受而且這孩子這兒子才高中生而已啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].start |
21436.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].end |
21460.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].text |
所以社工這個態度也是個問題嘛所以我手邊手上其實還有幾件剛好也都是原住民的我不知道這個應該也跟身分別沒有什麼關係啦但是因為因為現在醫護人員短缺我們也不願意給太多的壓力但是我一下子又接到到醫院明明就骨折去了好幾天 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].start |
21461.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].end |
21485.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].text |
檢查都檢查不出來還怪病人說沒有告訴醫院說哪裡骨折。還叫我到整個身體都是傷了當然全身都痛他怎麼知道哪裡骨折呢?那我們要去跟醫院協商醫院也理直氣壯說我們通通按照SOP來那到底是誰是被咬的比較衰嗎?然後連腦積水的也沒有看出來延誤治療。 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].start |
21487.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].end |
21515.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].text |
那到底要算誰的?因為我們尊重現在醫護人員都很缺,那特別在我們台東。我想在我們醫護人員缺,我們也要維護民眾的健康。對,我剛剛講的三件,那再麻煩部長,這三件幫我們好好處理。我不想給醫護人員、給醫院壓力,但是我想彼此大家都要互相體諒,好不好?三件我後續再找你,謝謝。好的,好的。好,謝謝陳委員,謝謝部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].start |
21518.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].end |
21546.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].text |
五、委員吳春成等19人擬具、「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案。五、委員沈花蕙等19人擬具、「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案案案。秋正鈞等19人擬具、「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案。羅志強等19人擬具、「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案。林楚英等19人擬具、「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案案案案案案案案案案案案。傅坤祺等19人擬具、「人工生殖法部分條文修正� |
| transcript.whisperx[779].start |
21547.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].end |
21550.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].text |
吳佩儀委員謝謝主席,我請這個衛福部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].start |
21568.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].end |
21585.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].text |
委員好部長好我們今天是來進行人工生殖法修法草案那總共有16個委員有提案版本的詢答那當中呢其中我也有提案我的提案版本呢我是希望人工生殖術能夠擴擠單身女性以及女性同志 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].start |
21586.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].end |
21611.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].text |
但是我希望這次的修法不要納入代理運募,希望脫鉤來討論處理。那在今天的上午的質詢,我人沒在現場但是我有在看轉播,我看到黃國昌委員有提到說,修法討論的時候,因為這個法案其實很複雜,所以我認同他說的,修法討論不要去扣人家帽子,但是我要呼籲民眾黨,尤其之前民眾黨陳昭之委員, |
| transcript.whisperx[782].start |
21613.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].end |
21637.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].text |
他把在這個法案當中跟他不同意見的女性他說我們叫做心理變態這個就是典型的扣帽子而且是一種人身攻擊所以我希望各個政黨黨團應該要自我的約束自律這個不同意見都可以討論但是不要去扣人家帽子尤其心理變態這是何等的人身攻擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].start |
21638.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].end |
21658.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].text |
再來,其中當中我為什麼認為這次帶領孕母一定要脫鉤處理?因為大家最擔心的是女性的子宮不能被商品化。在我們現在人工生殖法的現行法案裡面,對於拿子宮來販賣盈利、意圖盈利,現行有沒有法則? |
| transcript.whisperx[784].start |
21660.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].end |
21688.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].text |
人工生殖法部分條文修正草案現行是有罰則的但是現在的罰則是兩年刑渡兩年一顆罰金的話20萬到100萬因為正好昨天我們叫委員會也在討論因為打假球全民是生物痛覺這也是把球員商品化所以我們加重修法處理當中包括民眾黨、國民黨包括我們的版本我們都同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].start |
21689.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].end |
21704.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案：立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法� |
| transcript.whisperx[786].start |
21719.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].end |
21739.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].text |
那我現在看到所有我們立法院主張代理育母要納入本次修法的委員版本當中,沒有人處理加重罰則。打假求加重處罰,再賣女性子宮不用加重處罰嗎?這是我嚴重質疑的。難道大家認為說女性的子宮是可以這樣定價的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[787].start |
21742.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].end |
21770.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].text |
那你現在子宮來販賣只要罰20萬只要關兩年我們現在國家是如果你大架球你一坨盈利微破球員的話10年以下喔所以我要再次的重申所有有主張要把代理育母納入人工生殖法案修法的委員你們口口聲聲說不會商品化部長有請問我們現在要怎麼查核啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].start |
21771.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].end |
21790.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 案﹚立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案﹚立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].start |
21793.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].end |
21812.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案件及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及法律及 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].start |
21825.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].end |
21829.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].text |
謝謝委員接下來我們請黃捷委員質詢好謝謝主席我們請那個我們請部長跟署長一起好不好部長請署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].start |
21849.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].end |
21859.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].text |
委員好部長還是在這邊跟你明確的請教你們衛福部是已經確定會脫鉤處理嗎?你們的版本裡面有沒有代理孕母? |
| transcript.whisperx[792].start |
21860.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].end |
21884.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].text |
沒有確定透過處理為什麼部長今天在這邊承諾非常重要是因為大家知道今天其實在立法院外面有一群反代孕的女性因為非常擔憂台灣的女性的身體會被拿來當成商品非常擔心弱勢的女性的子宮會被拿來出售所以他們現在就在立法院外面 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].start |
21886.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].end |
21912.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].text |
希望這樣的聲音可以傳達到我們衛環委員會裡面。部長你聽到了嗎?我聽到了,而且我們的立場就是這樣子。我們的未來的新版本也是脫鉤的版本。好,那部長謝謝你在這邊的承諾,這個一定要在這邊非常堅定的表達出我們衛福部的立場。那這邊再來接下來我們請署長,部長先請重回座。謝謝。署長跟你請教一下喔,你自己是醫生對嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[794].start |
21914.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].end |
21928.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].text |
那請問我們生產是有風險的一件事嗎生產當然有風險生產既然有風險我們現在讓這個代理運母合法化是不是就是把生產風險轉嫁生產風險外包我想任何一個風險我們都必須要去管控而且希望能夠透過一些法規的規範來讓他降低他的風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].start |
21940.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].end |
21956.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].text |
請問一下署長你這句話的意思是說你支持你認為在合理的管控之下代理孕母這樣子生產風險轉嫁的行為是可以被允許的嗎我想那個是如果假設要討論這些相關的內容的時候是可以討論的 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].start |
21958.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].end |
21986.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].text |
署長我必須要在這邊跟你嚴正的澄清喔我們在這邊不希望代理運母在這一次的討論裡面被納進來就是因為以上這個核心的問題沒有辦法被解決既然生產是有風險的那請問當我們外包的時候誰必須要承擔這些風險到底誰必須要變成是這些承擔風險的對象啊到底誰有義務要去承擔這些風險啊署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].start |
21989.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].end |
21999.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].text |
我們剛剛開放討論就是希望能夠藉由大家討論,大家有什麼建議,能夠讓整個法規能夠更完整。那既然現在已經絕對破風,就不會...我目前沒有問。 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].start |
22008.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].end |
22015.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].text |
我建議你回去請教一下你身邊所有的女性到底誰願意自願來擔任這個必須要承擔生產風險的代理育母喔 署長我相信你現在到現在您還搞不清楚為什麼我們在這邊嚴正的反對說爭議這麼大的代理育母絕對不可以納入這次的條文就是因為非常擔心子宮被商品化 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].start |
22031.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].end |
22050.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].text |
當心有這樣子風險的外報必須要讓弱勢的女性他可能有經濟需求他可能因為某種家庭的壓力所以他必須要承擔這些外界的壓力來自己承擔說哦大家把風險轉嫁給我所以弱勢的女性要在這裡讓這些有需求的人使用他的子宮欸我都同意委員的建議那希望能夠法規能夠大家能夠討論讓他嚴厲讓他降低所有的風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].start |
22059.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].end |
22070.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第2會期社會福利及法制委員等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案．事由．立法院第2會 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].start |
22080.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].end |
22103.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].text |
他們有開放代孕但是過去就是因為這些代孕者的聲音不消失所以現在才會有這麼多與時俱進的國家像歐洲有23個人權國家決意說他們要禁止代孕這就是現在國際的趨勢因為大家逐漸發現說原來代理孕不是大家想像的這麼美好不是說我們就是跟你出界子宮而已沒有這麼簡單 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].start |
22105.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].end |
22117.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].text |
報告委員,我想今天以及委員您所提的,我們都深刻的了解跟提認,所以我們現在衛福部最後間的版本就是,的立場就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].start |
22120.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].end |
22123.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].text |
擬具 «人工生殖法部分條文修正草案》案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].start |
22136.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].end |
22161.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].text |
是不是一直以來都認為這麼爭議的事情你們從來沒有深刻檢討沒有深刻去檢討說裡面弱勢女性的性別正義的問題去檢討說階級正義的問題國際上有這麼多的弱勢女性他們會去當代理孕母就是因為他們有經濟需求他們知道說原來我去幫人家懷一個孩子我可以從中賺一筆錢但沒有想到說背後要負擔的成本背後要負擔的風險都是他自己要承擔啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].start |
22163.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].end |
22171.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].text |
所以這些像陳昭芝委員陳天在講說就是有人願意做無償待遇請問在座所有的女性你願意做無償待遇嗎?你願意幫別人承擔這樣的風險嗎?我不相信有誰願意這樣說沒錯我就是非常的聖人我在這邊就是希望來照顧其他的女性 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].start |
22183.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].end |
22189.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案件 等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].start |
22201.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].end |
22226.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].text |
這就是這麼根本的問題,我不知道為什麼在台上的兩位男性都沒有辦法理解耶。我完全理解,而且那個也...對,周偉都笑了,因為他想說台上的兩位男性怎麼會理解女性生產過程中的辛苦呢。所以我在這邊還是要非常嚴正,而且非常非常嚴肅的表達我的立場。 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].start |
22226.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].end |
22236.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].text |
等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 案 等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 案 等19人擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].start |
22255.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].end |
22273.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].text |
她說如果這個代孕者在懷孕中期失敗之後有終止代孕的權利但是委託方可以依照民法的規定跟代孕者來請求損害賠償什麼意思就是如果你代孕者懷孕失敗了不好意思委託者可以告你喔可以跟你要賠償喔請問可以這樣對代孕者嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].start |
22277.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].end |
22294.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].text |
我不是要在這樣的版本裡面就是說你小孩沒有生給我你這個商品沒有給我我是可以告你的喔他們把小孩當成商品在這樣的條文裡面我們真的是可以如此的冷靜的去看待這些事情嗎這都是活生生的生命欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].start |
22296.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].end |
22319.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].text |
所以看起來裡面完全不只沒有把代孕者的聲音而且也讓人工生殖子女的聲音都沒有被放進去這是我在這邊要嚴正表達抗議的所以我很希望說在這邊也跟我們朝委拜託這個爭議真的非常非常大絕對不能這樣隨便的讓它通過一旦通過對台灣所有的女性都是災難好最後我還是在這邊請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].start |
22326.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].end |
22329.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].text |
拜託部長,我們把我們的底線守好好嗎?是。 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].start |
22331.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].end |
22360.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].text |
這個你們也必須要表達出我當然知道說因為你們都是醫師就會覺得說這個從醫學技術上面來看沒有問題但很多東西不是只有技術的問題我們都是每個人都是活生生的生命好不好好那在這邊拜託堅守到底絕對不可以讓這樣的法案通過是好謝謝部長謝謝謝謝黃委員謝謝部長署長林思敏林思敏林委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].start |
22365.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].end |
22367.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].text |
本日會議詢答全部結束。 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].start |
22369.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].end |
22396.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].text |
委員王一鳴陳俊宇省花費邱振均盧縣一吳征存所提書面資料列入紀錄刊登公報我們做以下的決議說明及審打完畢委員執行為其答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關以兩週內以書面答覆委員另行要求期限者從其所定人工生殖法部分條文修正草案暨16案 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].start |
22399.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].end |
22404.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].text |
那我們另外則期繼續審查。本次會議到此結束,現在上會。 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].start |
22437.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].end |
22438.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].text |
擬具:「人工生殖法部分條文修正草案案 案。」案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].start |
22473.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].end |
22473.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].text |
立法院第11屆第2會期社會福利及衛生環境、司法及法制委員 |