| IVOD_ID |
163406 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163406 |
| 日期 |
2025-08-07 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-19-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
19 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-08-07T10:27:28+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-08-07T10:43:49+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:21 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ce960b47cc6398b95598280f33fae43c70dc6911ab88c3aa02881fab7f5768fb19d60a91c10e9f3c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張啓楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:27:28 - 10:43:49 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-08-07T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家發展委員會主任委員就「美國對等關稅底定後，我國經濟未來之景氣情況及產業全球佈局新規劃」進行報告，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
23.558 |
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24.342 |
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大家謝謝 請大家注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
36.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
58.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
主委今天台灣的時間早上凌晨四點川普公布對我們晶片跟半導體100%我剛剛看了你的答詢像真正的癥結是什麼川普要的就是美國生產嘛對不對那相對之下我們現在要解決的問題是不是因為他課了這麼高的一個關稅我們的半導體會不會外移非常嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
59.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
75.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
他不只課這個關稅100%喔他有個計畫嘛 對不對他說你如果要我美國投資 對不對還是說你有投資計畫我就是領嘛那這個像在拔河啊川普都出招了他也跟你講得那麼清楚啊我要你的半導體他之前說你把我的晶片都偷走了 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
77.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
105.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
那這樣會不會導致 會不會導致台灣的半導體 現在是全州都去喔不是只有台電去喔 上中下游在這段時間你應該有知道那個整個狀況嗎很多相關的業者都過去了嘛會不會因為今天的這個100%導致我們的半導體的產業更加速的外移到美國去這應該不是外移喔 我們過去有外移的情形是很多中小型的企業把這邊關掉到了別的地方去生產 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
107.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
134.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那現在這個不是萬一是全球佈局就是他跟在台灣我們來看建設來看現在台積電一廠做完再蓋二廠但是台積電現在在高雄在嘉義這些地方都在建廠包括台中也要再建新廠其實這邊的建台積電在台灣的投資遠超過在美國的投資如果像您是專家就很清楚在三個廠去的時候大家就在看 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
135.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
154.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
這個大概產能可以佔台積電多少那時候大家估計都在6%多那事實上台積電以外銷美國來看現在在1%上下其實都沒有那麼多它不是外移它是全球佈局的部分他認為外移這個字可以變成是全球佈局兩種他如果把台灣關掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
159.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
176.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
過去就是外移就跟移民一樣有些會不會關掉關掉了有沒有關掉是個問號但台積電所有的先進製程都在台灣那投資金額是有限的嘛對不對就是有排擠嘛例如說本來要在台灣要投資一千億嘛那因為我美國這個高關稅我只要有一半到那邊去那台灣投資當然就減少囉 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
178.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
195.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
這個您是專家一定更清楚每個企業在進行投資的時候一定會看到他的他手上的資金流量來然後看他的佈局那您對企業比較了解一定很清楚沒有一個企業會去蓋一個廠擺在那裡花一千億然後沒有人買對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
196.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
221.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
所以它一定是有訂單它才會往前移動那第二個事情是它在資金的佈局上面很明顯它在台灣在建廠非常多遠比美國多很多那就很明顯它的資金的投資在這邊那台積電的資金流量一定是控制得非常嚴謹的我們做兩個非常具體的指標第一個有沒有因為本來要在台灣的這個投資或者它的產能現在到美國去這是馬上看得到的喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
222.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
237.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
因為你是個企業你現在一定要想嘛我在台灣生產然後在美國生產美國這邊要到在台灣可能要100%那到那邊是零沒有這個我們就不用爭辯這個就未來很快就可以看得到有沒有影響到台灣的投資或者某些產業的這個外移我們知道事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
239.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
255.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
這有一個證明點這個證明點就是說美國的產能有沒有人包下來美國做的有沒有買家如果沒有的話就會吻合你剛才講的但如果有那就另外一個看法了 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
256.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
265.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那我現在的瞭解是說他是確定要有訂單他才會生產目前是這樣的狀況所以他不會有空置才能你只要看產能利用率就很清楚了你應該比我了解我們剛剛這樣討論我要求兩個東西好不好就是未來辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
273.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
299.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
開始要你要去推估就是經過這百分之百這個衝擊完之後不管是外移或者是全球布局要兩個東西第一個在投資台灣的這個金額有沒有減少或是有哪些加速到美國去投資影響到台灣把這兩個做個整理好不好金額跟投資額的加速這個都很明顯很快就看得到了好不好因為這個要訪談我們大概只能訪談主要代表廠商啦因為這個蠻大的量 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
300.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
321.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
你先反彈幾個比較有代表性的好那我們更具體的你是我們國家這個公股董事台積電的公股董事嘛台積電現在面臨兩個很重要的挑戰一個是投資金額川普一直在加碼一直在加碼今天最新的他講的不是三千億喔兩千億當然也有可能再跳回去三千億不過這金額都很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
322.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
351.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
兩千億是增加多少?目前是1650元1650元是台積電發言人很確定的在回應數字那如果照川普講的至少要增加350億的美金350億美金是多少?一條耶中央政府總預算的三分之一耶那這筆錢是本來要投資在台灣的會不會到美國去?這個是一個考量點對不對那你的了解你是公股公股的這個董事你對於現在到底到美國投資到底是多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
353.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
378.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
內部你們有沒有評估過投資就是1650目前所以雖然川普現在是喊價嗎還是已經很具體已經有跟你們要求還沒有我想這個民間的事情當然是以台積電發言人為主你也知道董事大概就沒辦法講太多但是就我的了解目前還是在1650站在公股董事的這個代表國家去你比較支持再繼續加碼嗎還是留在1650 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
381.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
409.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我的看法是這樣子看生意了你的訂單有沒有所有的企業都是照這個走那第二個是我們看下來在高雄六個廠的計畫沒有變然後其實嘉義的廠的計畫沒有變尤其嘉義的投資其實你應該知道不只兩個廠對不對那再加上台南跟台中所以他的投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
410.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
436.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
投資量能而且您可以看到目前最先進的都在臺灣所以他不會改變那我們現在最守住的就是最先進的製程一定在臺灣所以主委我們跟全民承諾在對美國加大投資的同時臺灣一定要顧到對不對你剛講這些廠我們要顧到就是不能少只能增加最新的技術一定在臺灣來來來你剛講新的你現在講到第二個就是我要講的第二個危機理工核心技術來 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
437.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
459.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
現在川普跟美國要求的是什麼?不是只有生價金了啦他要求Intel我們要合股對不對?要去買多少?變成49%對不對?所以要問公股董事啊你們內部有沒有討論過如果要去要去跟Intel做這麼大的一個投資49% |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
461.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
489.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
表示51%還是英特爾主導嘛為什麼要去美國為什麼要做這個要求要去救英特爾嘛對不對我上次國元跟你報告一下上次我就有回應到英特爾就造成美國的股市股價就下滑了所以我想我是不建議我們可以私下聊聊但是我不建議我們在不公開討論我們不用像經濟部長多智慧講說去入股合併救他們雖然上次沒有影響到台灣但是影響到美國股價上了好多媒體 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
490.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
510.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
有內部評估可是我們還不公開啦OK好那就我們私底下再來問好來我接下來問兩個很重要的事情這都是你主管的重要的那個我們現在啊面臨的是美國的關稅一直在拉高可是主委你沒有發現在民進黨政府在抗中保台的同時 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
512.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
526.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我們從中國大陸賺的錢一直在快速的下滑我可以看這個是審計部跟很多這個統計最近這五年民國109年到110年度我國出口到 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
529.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
546.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
中國大陸早說的產品出口值介於149億美元到259億美元光是最近這兩年民國110年到113年度呈現負成長少了多少18.76%一個是減了23%我們從大陸那邊賺的錢減少了將近四分之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
554.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
583.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
減少了四分之一那現在更恐怖的是什麼我們本來要這筆錢就從美國去賺嘛我們去年從美國賺了739億對不對可是現在危機來了因為這個刀關稅衝擊川普的意思就是你賺了我的錢我要拿回來啦所以美國那邊會不會減少這是一個危機更重要的現在還要走我們不是一直在強調要去加入一些七一的經濟對不對我們看一下這個是審計部最新的決算報告他說我們政府啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
585.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
610.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
這個國發會應該有接到啦這是審計部的結算報告政府最近這幾年積極在推動國際經貿的這個拓展要去爭取出國產業的對外貿易的立足點的平等你看人家國與國之間都是很多都是零關稅自由貿易對不對我們已經要簽訂加入七億整合協定已經十幾年了可是現在申請加入包括CPTPP兩年到現在還沒進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
611.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
636.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
沒有發現所以相對你大陸那邊ECOQUA的你現在少了那麼多錢一年少了四分之一的錢喔從大陸賺的錢喔而且越來越在抗中保台越來越少結果從美國賺的錢美國現在川普出手可能會降下來你現在跟東協跟其他國家你要申請這個國際的這個冠帽的到現在進不去啊因為中國的反對我們現在這幾個全部都是中國反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
637.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
659.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那如果中國不反對,我認為我們的機會都很大啦中國一定反對嘛,中國對台灣的打壓是無時不刻影響他一直在打壓我們所以呢,我們自己也要有做好準備,做好防衛啦所以注意這上面準備,而且要突破啊,人們要看你是要突破嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
660.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
681.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我剛剛講這三個點都很重要對不對中國大陸抗中保台之下收入減少了美國看起來本來是高的可是可能會往下掉因為川普出手了接下來你跟這個經濟貿易這一塊你要加入的這個國際組織現在都是停所以是不是這一塊要趕快再一突破要多加強我們會繼續努力啦但是我們不會再像打壓我們的人屈服啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
682.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
706.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
現在當然不能欺負啦 重點是自己要自立自強 你自己這條路要趕快去開出來先是審計部的決算報告喔這是要求國發會也要做改正的喔你要面對這個 你要回答審計部喔後來 最後問一個很重要的題這幾天 光電板 山也光電板 海也光電板 製縫池也光電板 農地也是光電板 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
708.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
735.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
引起了全民的抗議 現在光電板已經卡住了而且這次颱風一來破損的壞掉了 甚至有些都已經堆到這個農地上面去了民怨非常的深 我來看一下審計部怎麼講新潔部他們最近提了一個報告說政府的太陽能這個光電啊這也是你管的 你本來訂一個目標嘛 對不對訂一個目標嘛 結果審計部現在審理出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
737.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
744.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
跳票一再再跳票特別是在魚電工生這一塊魚電工生就是下面養魚上面有光電板 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
746.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
771.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
你們訂的木片到現在達成率是多少您提到這個漁電工生我們現在在我們也看到這次在家也有廠商他其實是放在他的儲存櫃跟屋頂上一個新的模式這個新的模式讓他度過了五天這個斷電的時間那其實我們在台南也有廠商他們就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
772.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
792.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
養魚業者自己做的新型漁電工生他們自己覺得效果很好所以我們現在在試著搭配這些一起來推廣他們覺得養魚業者覺得比較好的模式我們希望推廣給業者達到合作另外我們也在協調農業部就是說過去漁電工生如果是他必須要養魚的部分可以免費給到農業青年 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
800.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
828.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
得到免費的餘溫來養魚然後達到一個三贏的角色主委我現在跟你講的是那我們逐步希望來改善那至於他的那個房台的強化我們我想我們也會找經濟部來協商看看經濟部可不可以在這個部分做一個強化那再來我們現在所有的這個光電要設置一定要經過溝通才能送案那這個溝通的部分我們現在也做了做了比較大的改善就是說我們分兩個區一個區是在地居民 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
831.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
851.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
一個是不是在地居民那這樣的話我們可以分清楚在地人的聲音是什麼那這些都做過才申請我們要一起努力不過現在兩個最大的問題這個都是你國發會也是我們國家定下的目標一個是發電量嘛餘電共生的發電量第二個就是魚不能夠餘電共生結果魚死了 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
852.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
873.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
電才來 甚至是 於此的電嚴重的缺乏少了非常多現在兩個目標 第一個你看喔 這些都是你訂的目標喔113年跟115年你訂的目標的達成率啊不到一半 到了115年 這個是省紀部最新的結算報告大家看一下 達成率只有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
874.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
896.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
你本來要達成的115年底的達成率是4428MW到目前為止只達成了22.52%欸你整個標準只達成了大概五分之一欸連七成都不到欸所以主委檢討兩個事情 主委你的目標是不是定的太高誤會還是中間出了什麼問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
897.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
912.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
你大概一個月好不好一個月檢討一下為什麼打成立省然後講你 你也是要回應給省紀部的啦清潔波對應你的目標我不要用打臉就說這個落差真的太大了當初準備訂了然後打成立查這些因為是訂的目標不是我們訂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
913.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
929.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
這是漁業署定的目標啦那我們來溝通吧漁業署容易不提上去嘛那我們跟委員一個說我們政府國發會定這個目標漁業署定這個目標竟然達成力不到七成發電量不到七成 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
931.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
944.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
不到三成這是多嚴重的一個事情那第二個我給你我找他們給你一個報告我們一起弄一下那一個月內給我一份報告這個你也要回給那個審計部嘛那另外就是很多魚都死掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
945.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
959.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
違反了漁電共生的原則好不好這個也是非常嚴重的這個我是問過農業部長然後省紀部這次也講也是有七成都沒有達成這個魚的養殖也並同一個月檢討好不好好謝謝好我們現在接下來請 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
973.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
974.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
我們謝一鳳召委來質詢 |