| IVOD_ID |
16338 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16338 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-04 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-35-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
20 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-04T08:29:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-04T12:01:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:31:01 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2d323e8eb5774d58be9b5fa2f296a93534a82e37f9ba35fd772bf81493017089cb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第20次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家安全局收支公開及機密部分。（處理）（12月4日及5日二天一次會）） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:29:59 - 12:01:00 |
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報告委員會初期委員8人已足法定人數好我們開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
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1893.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第19次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國113年11月28日星期四上午9時3分至下午1時29分地點紅樓山寧一會議室出席委員盧美琳等9人 列席委員賴士寶等16人請教委員黃仁列席人員外交部部長林佳龍及所屬人員行政院主計總處專門委員張嘉宇經濟部人事處 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1896.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1914.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
專門委員紀嘉琳教育部國際及兩岸教育師檢任一等教育秘書曾進文化部文化交流師專門委員梁玉芳勞動部綜合規劃師專門委員李永裕僑務委員會人事事主任楊志傑等主席林州級委員易軍 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1915.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1945.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定討論事項依審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於外交部主管收支公開及機密部分謹詢答外交部部長林佳龍報告委員盧美林等16人質詢均由外交部部長林佳龍拉丁美洲及加勒比海斯副司長張志信北美司司長王良玉國際組織司司長孫簡元及人事處處長黃立林等及其答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1946.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1949.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
決議一登記質詢在場委員均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1951.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1974.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
二委員所提口頭及書面諮詢未及答覆或要求提供之資訊請外交部與二周內以書面答覆本會全體委員並附資本會委員令指定期限者從其所定三委員盧美琳黃仁及王洪威等三人所提書面諮詢列入記錄刊登公報是本案令則其繼續審查而繼續處理院會交付外交部113年度中央政府總預算決議18對外資捐助預算凍結100萬元案 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1979.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2004.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
決議本案處理完均同意動資並提抱怨會宣讀完畢在場委員對於上一次的會議議事錄有遺漏錯誤或需要更正的地方沒有的話我們議事錄確定請議事人員宣讀討論事項討論事項繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家安全局收支公開及機密部分宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2007.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2034.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我們先介紹在場的委員陳永康委員徐巧欣委員羅美玲委員林楚瑩委員本席代表外交委員會非常歡迎王逸川委員加入本會要不要給你掌聲鼓勵歡迎今天是你的第一天上班那接下來我介紹一下今天列席的官員 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2038.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2057.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
根據本會議及相關法令規定我們有關情報單位我們只介紹主管管其餘的名職隱去這一段是跟新同學講的再來是由我們列席的官員由我們國安局局長蔡明彥行政院主計總處公務預算處專門委員廖玉琳 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2061.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2083.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
好接下來本期要宣告一些事情請各位同仁聽一下本日會議因為我們已經就國安局的總預算案詢答已經結束了所以今天沒有詢答我們繼續審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家安全局收支公開及機密部分今天進行提案處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2084.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2106.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
先處理機密部分再處理公開部分跟我們尋答的時候是一樣的但是我們待會請議事人員宣讀的時候先宣讀公開念完免得我們清場完各位回來又要在那邊等宣讀半天就是待會請議事人員宣讀公開預算數及委員提案把它讀完那同時佈置協商場地 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2109.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2129.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
宣讀完畢後改進行秘密會議請各位委員跟列席官員離開會議室經偵測掃描後再進入會場在進入會場的時候我們就直接到協商桌就座準備進行預算審查宣讀機密 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2131.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2153.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
藉時再會宣讀機密預算數及提案後開始進行處理機密預算待機密預算審查完盡後我們再恢復公開審查公開預算部分以上本席宣告不知道清不清楚有沒有必要再說明地方如果沒有的話我們就這樣來處理我們現在先請醫生員宣讀公開預算部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2156.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2159.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
114年度中央政府總預算案國家安全局收支公開部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2163.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2175.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
一稅入部分第二款罰款及賠償收入第78項國防部所屬國家安全局部分972,000元第三款歸費收入第63項國防部所屬國家安全局部分32,000元第四款財產收入第89項國防部所屬國家安全局部分153,000元第七款其他收入第88項國防部所屬國家安全局部分878萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2189.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2218.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
二稅出部分第九款第二項國防部所屬國家安全局部分第二幕情報行政十億八千三百零四萬八千元現在宣讀委員之預算提案第一案第七款第七款其他收入雜項收入其他雜項收入減列兩百五十萬元委員徐巧興等人提案第二案稅出第二幕行政管理人士費凍結三千萬元為馬文君等人提案第三案至第六案為第二幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2218.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2242.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
行政管理業務費致預算提案 檢列兩千萬元 凍結兩千萬元委員馬文君等人提案 第四案 檢列一百萬元 凍結一百萬元委員林儲英等人提案 第五案 凍結三千萬元委員馬文君等人提案 第六案 凍結一千萬元委員馬文君等人提案 第七案至第十三案 系第二幕行政管理業務費水電費致預算提案 第七案 凍結十趴委員徐曉新等人提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2249.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2271.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
第8案 凍結500萬元委員黃仁等人提案第9案 凍結300萬元委員王定宇等人提案第10案 凍結100萬元委員林柱英等人提案第11案 凍結100萬元委員陳冠廷等人提案第12案 凍結50萬元委員林益君等人提案第13案 凍結10萬元委員盧美玲等人提案第14案 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2273.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2290.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
第2目行政管理業務費通訊費檢列50萬元委員陳冠廷等提案。第15案至第19案系第2目行政管理業務費資訊服務費支預算提案。第15案檢列1000萬元凍結1000萬元委員馬文君等提案。第16案檢列1000萬元凍結1000萬元委員馬文君等提案。第17案檢列500萬元凍結500萬元委員馬文君等提案。第18案凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2302.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2322.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
16%委員徐巧欣等提案第19案凍結50萬元委員盧美玲等提案第20案第二幕行政管理其他業務租金檢列30萬元凍結80%委員徐巧欣等提案第21案第二幕行政管理業務費保險費凍結10萬元委員黃仁等提案第22案第二幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2324.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2345.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
行政管理業務費案日案件計支籌金檢列50萬元凍結30萬元委員馬文君等提案第23案至第26案系第二目行政管理業務費物品之預算提案第23案檢列100萬元委員黃仁等提案第24案檢列100萬元凍結100萬元委員馬文君等提案第25案 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2346.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2366.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
簡列一千萬元凍結百分之五十五元徐曉鑫等提案第二十六案凍結一百萬元五元陳慧婷等提案第二十七案至第三十七案系第二幕行政管理優惠一般事務費至預算提案第二十七案凍結一千萬元五元馬文君等提案第二十八案凍結一百五十一萬四千元五元林楚英等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2367.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2388.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
第29案凍結20萬元委員盧美玲等人提案第30案凍結100萬元委員王定宇等人提案第31案凍結100萬元委員陳永康等人提案第32案凍結50萬元委員林益君等人提案第33案凍結50萬元委員黃仁等人提案第34案凍結20萬元委員盧美玲等人提案第35案凍結200萬元委員馬文君等人提案第36案凍結30萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2394.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2398.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
委員林玉君等提案第37案凍結100萬元委員黃仁等提案第38案第二幕情報行政業務費防護建築養護費檢列100萬元凍結500萬元委員徐小新等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2408.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2413.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
第39案至第42案系第二幕行政管理業務費車輛及辦公器具養護費之預算提案第39案檢列10萬元委員陳冠廷等提案第40案動結500萬元委員馬文君等提案第41案 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2426.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2451.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
動輒10%委員林儲英等提案第42案動輒100萬元委員王定宇等提案第43案第二幕行政管理設施及機械設備養護費動輒85%委員徐巧欣等提案第44案第二幕行政管理國內旅費減累50萬元委員馬文君等提案第45案至第46案系第二幕情報行政行政管理特別費支預算提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2451.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2467.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
第45案簡列117萬7千元委員徐巧欣等提案第46案凍結10萬元委員林毅君等提案第47至第52案系第二幕行政管理防務建築及設備費資預算提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2468.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2475.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
第47案簡列392萬3千元凍結80%委員徐曉新等提案第48案凍結200萬元委員黃仁等提案第49案凍結100萬元委員王定宇等提案第50案凍結50萬元委員盧美林等提案第51案凍結30萬元委員王定宇等提案第52案凍結10萬元委員林益君等提案第53案第二幕行政管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2495.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2524.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
資訊軟硬體設備費檢列300萬元凍結500萬元委員馬文君等提案第54至第63案系第二幕情報行政行政管理設備及投資雜項設備費之預算提案第54案檢列3000萬元凍結50%委員徐巧欣等提案第55案檢列量20萬元委員黃仁等提案第56案凍結200萬元委員陳冠廷等提案第57案凍結300萬元委員王定宇等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2525.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2535.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
第58案 凍結100萬元委員林柱英等提案第59案 凍結30萬元委員林益君等提案第60案 凍結100萬元委員陳永康等提案第61案 凍結1⅓委員黃仁等提案第62案 減獵500萬元 凍結500萬元委員馬文君等提案第63案 凍結1⅓委員黃仁等提案第64案 第二幕情報教育訓練業務費凍結100萬元委員林柱英等提案第65至第66案 第二幕情報教育訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2555.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2571.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
交易訓練費之預算提案第65案凍結65%委員徐曉鑫等提案第66案凍結50萬元委員沈伯陽等提案第67案第二幕情報交易訓練業務費按日案件計資酬金凍結15%委員林柱英等提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2572.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2596.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
第68至第69夕第二幕情報教育訓練費設備及投資制預算提案第68案凍結50萬元委員徐曉新等提案第69案凍結70%委員徐曉新等提案第70至73案夕第二幕情報建築及設備設備及投資機械設備費制預算提案第70案凍結十分之一委員黃仁等提案第71案 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2599.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2623.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
動輒100萬元委員陳永康等提案第72案動輒50萬元委員陳慧婷等提案第73案動輒50萬元委員林毅君等提案第74至85案為主決議現在宣讀主決議之內容第74案中國對我國政府網路攻擊次數逐漸增加故請國家安全局針對如何提升與請集資進資安人員專業訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2625.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2637.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
專業能力並強化資安防護提出具體說明及計畫原件請國家安全局一個月內向立法院外交及國防委員會提出書面報告提案委員林楚英等人第75案 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2640.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2664.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
114年度國家安全局預算案與情報行政向下行政管理中人士費指保險費編列國安特勤人員團體意外保險費171萬元建請國家安全局競速修訂國安局特勤人員團體意外保險規定保額應比照憲兵指揮部特勤人員之標準並找尋相關裁員負擔延伸之保費以確保公平及照顧傷亡人員之遺嘱生活 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2666.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2679.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
原件請國家安全局一個月內向立法院外交及國防委員會提出書面報告提案人委員王定宇等人第76案特勤人員團體意外險114年度編列171萬元較113年度平均保費640多元多編列20萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2687.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2703.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
建請國家安全局說明增列之原因（原建請國家安全局一個月內向立法院外交及國防委員會提出書面報告提案人委員林竹英等人（第77案為確保國家安全並凝聚全民意識（原建請國家安全局應研議精進 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2707.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2731.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
關網媒體視讀之網頁面以利民眾便於得知訊息要職並因訊名爭議訊息挑選基準以致國人辨識境外敵對勢力之攻擊相關經濟作為請於3個月內以書面報告向立法院外交及國防委員會提出提案人委員沈伯陽等人第78案 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2732.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2755.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
建議境外敵對勢力除透過網路對我政府進行資安攻擊外亦不排除可能藉由內部威脅事件取得我國國安情報工作成果考量全球企業在應對內部威脅的資安措施上平均支出達162萬美元建請國家安全局亦應統合各國安單位評估我國應對 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2758.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2783.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
內部威脅所需措施至預算經費（並向行政院爭取支提案人委員沈伯陽等人第79案為確保情報資訊系統與作業機房環境改善期間能運作正常（原進請國家安全局應就機房改善及情報資訊系統運作維持進行妥善規劃並兼顧機房改善之品質以防渡中共網軍對我政府發動妄害 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2784.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2804.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
事件之攻擊提案人委員省博洋等人第80案正在國家安全的角度國安局因盤點戰略物資的必需進口量並針對運送船隻提出國輪目標數量提供政府各部會相關情資報告檢討動員準備和因應策略 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2808.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2823.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
原件請國家安全局於兩個月內就運送能源燃料、鋼鐵、糧食的目標數量完成專案報告並向立法院外交及國防委員會提出書面報告。提案人委員紅生漢等人 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2824.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2841.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
第81案目前交通部航港局清查專案僅限於起重機硬體、區域附加零件是否屬中國製產品軍衛盤點。國安局應啟動專案全面清查我國港口設施是否有中國製監控設備並啟動事前示警機制並於一個月內向 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2846.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2871.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
提出書面報告向立法院外交及國防委員會提案人委員紅詩翰等人。第82案行政院今年通過《知通安全管理法修正草案》僅要求訴發部資安署與各機關溝通並無公布相關產品清單,令各機關對危害國家知通安全產品限制使用原則所規範的部分對象為中國廠牌, |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2872.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2901.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
然有許多歐洲或臺灣品牌廠牌需年到中國公司開發的第三方APP卻不在規範範圍內請國家安全局針對公部門人員自行購買使用此類電子產品尤其是非中國產品卻使用中國製軟硬體的產品進行國家安全風險評估並於一個月內將書面報告送交立法院外交及國防委員會提案人委員紅生漢等人 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2902.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2918.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
第83近年國際局勢變化劇烈（如歐戰爭以哈衝突及朝鮮半島衝突皆對美中臺關係產生地緣政治之效應。國安局應強化情報延期能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2918.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2935.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
發威我國國安單位整體情報價值以提供陳峰充分資訊必力制定正確策略提案人委員黃仁等人第84案中共持續對我國稅刑虛擬認知攻擊並結合實體戰略武器形成複合性多元威脅 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2936.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2951.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
更顯未來科技傾收工作之困難性與重要性（原建議國安局應積極協同各情報機關（共同發揮科技情報能量（以應對敵對勢力對我之威脅提案人委員黃仁等人 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2953.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2976.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
第85案114年度國家安全局預算案與情報教育訓練中教育訓練費並列國安特考及新進人員訓練費用248萬4千元較113年度委輔減少60餘萬元．要求國安局於一個月內向立法院外交及國防委員會提出書面報告以釐清狀況提案人委員黃仁等人宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2977.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2993.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
本席補充介紹馬文君委員陳冠廷委員林一鈞昭委黃仁委員那因為各位委員可能在路上我再補宣告一次為了作業方便以及按照巡達的慣例我們預算審查先機密後公開那 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2995.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3014.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
為了方便作業所以該先把公開預算的部分提案宣讀完畢待會進入機密審查清場完畢再入場會再宣讀機密的提案機密預算審查完畢我們開放會場再恢復到公開預算的審查以上補充跟各位報告那我們在進場的時候請各位就直接回到協商台那 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3015.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3016.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
我們現在改進行秘密會議請議事人員清場 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
6118.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
6142.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
議員．． |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
6146.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
6147.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
6177.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
6196.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
．．． |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
6197.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
6222.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
各位委員還有助理麻煩提醒各位委員我先講我們審查的慣例跟原則第一個主提案人如果不在場原則上不處理主提案人如果不在場提案原則上我們就不處理那當然有個案特別這個請託聯署委員我們會個案來處理主提案人不在場我們盡量我們原則上就不處理然後第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
6224.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
6246.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
國家安全局預算審查案往例我們是以二級科目作為並案原則那在討論的時候來彈性處理比方說按照二級科目並案之後發現後面有個案子跟前面案子幾乎一樣的我們再來彈性處理第三個如果已經完成與提案委員溝通那溝通完畢達成共識我們請業管報告的時候請直接報告同意的 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
6252.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
6263.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
三檢動或照案的結果那如果委員還有其他問題提出詢問再請業管單位來加以說明我們這樣子可以把時間用在比較有爭議的討論上面那現在這個會場重新開放 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
6270.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
6280.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
提醒提案委員不在場原則上我們就不處理提案委員不在場我們原則上不處理請各位助理通知委員是不是盡量在場來進行討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
6283.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
6309.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
好,我們現在先從稅入再處理稅出的公開預算部分那剛才提案都已經宣讀我們就直接來處理稅入第一案徐曉欣委員的稅入簡列的部分我們剛才講過按照二級科目合併所以我待會會有幾個案幾個案並在一起討論稅入的第一案是徐曉欣委員的提案請業管說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
6312.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
6338.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
主席各位委員第一案提案委員為徐巧欣委員指導列管卷社會收租金及管理費之議題以提供書面資料說明本局居安新村及官戶新村的管理現況鑒於該項稅務科目其他雜項收入本局是依照過去3年的本局同仁宿舍管理費的實收實際收入的平均數來核實那邊鑒請委員能夠同意該科目507萬6千元能夠全數照列免於減列敬請指導好 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
6340.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
6365.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那這個部分呢我可以同意喔就是改成這個凍結等一下我的筆呢我這個部分呢可以同意喔但是我希望在這個這個捲改條例的爭議那對於我們的老舊的這個宿舍管理的部分呢國安局這邊能夠更積極的來協助我們的捲舍實際居住的這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
6369.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
6386.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
因為呢在我們現在的老舊眷區裡面呢那很多包含是國安局的眷舍那的維修問題還有呢我們有一些包含居安尋稱光復尋存那包含比如說碰到這一些颱風或者是他外面的外牆 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
6387.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
6390.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
那經常會碰到這個我們的國安局覺得那外強不關國安局的事可問題是他就變成一個三不管的地帶所以我們在這個稅入這個稅入裡面呢那有收到這個錢但是呢那我們卻沒有去編列相關的這個管理的經費但所以說這一點呢希望我在這邊列簡列的理由是希望提出來那也給這個國安局一個這個警惕希望說呢我們對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
6416.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
6419.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
那是不是就是照列啦照列好第一案照列接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
6439.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
6439.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
接下來這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
6454.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
6478.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
第二案開始是說出的嗎?是的好我們從第二案開始第二案這個是馬文君委員的提案請說明第二案馬文君委員提案關心若使兩性淫規及確保特勤體能建設成績真實性以致委員辦公室說明必提供書面資料建勤委員同意凍結100萬元提出書面報告並經同意後使得凍資請委員指導來有共識嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
6481.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
6483.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
這個部分一百萬我覺得凍結太少了這個因為其實國安單位是一個非常嚴謹的單位那你發生這樣的事情不管是體測成績造假或者甚至像有不當的酒後的行為等等其實這個也都是公開的已經都被媒體公開出來這對我們的殺傷力很強可是怎麼樣積極的作為看起來還是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
6509.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
6523.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
所以你沒有辦法根絕這個部分,你說有那個攝影,現在也有啊,就是說之前有一些,你有那個監視器,之前也有,可是看不出來我們有什麼樣積極的因應的作為,那應該怎麼做,我覺得那是一個表態,一百萬太少了 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
6529.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
6529.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
這個支持這個馬委員的提案之外呢我想要特別在這個因為這個案子是關於國安局的特勤中心嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
6545.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
6561.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
那先前有這個黃金之亂的檢討報告送到立法院那裡面有三項缺失但是呢卻認為這個是沒有潛在風險的但是我個人認為呢這一份的三項缺失檢討只有針對動線規劃欠加然後合影引導管制不足跟現場機動應變不佳這件事情是我覺得檢討報告是非常不優的 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
6576.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
6579.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
這三項檢討確實沒有包含是對於我國的顏面有損這件事情就是我們好不容易歡迎中華隊榮耀歸國然後因為我們整體的國安在特勤中心的規劃上面那不良 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
6596.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
6611.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
那導致於整個門國門的門面受損那後續也沒有任何的懲處對所以我想雖然在這個案子裡面特別提到的是謝敬華上將但是因為這個也是跟國安的特勤中心相關聯的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
6613.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
6629.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
所以我也覺得在這個凍結數上面呢應該予以提升那對於國安局的特勤中心的部分呢再加在一起對說明然後就是除了這個謝敬華少將之外我覺得對於這個檢討報告的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
6632.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
6643.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
檢討報告的部分我也希望能夠就是重新再更細緻的做出報告甚至就是我很質疑的是為什麼對當下沒有做就這些就當天的事件沒有做任何的懲處因為有蠻多媒體還有民眾也都有在講說為什麼只給了一份這個簡單的調查報告然後寫了三項詮釋卻沒有任何的懲處那就覺得大家是便宜行事覺得這件事情過去就過去了很不能接受對所以我希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
6661.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
6662.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
這個部分也能夠一起加進來,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
6680.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
6701.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
第三案至第六案並案提案委員為馬文君委員及林楚英委員關心保密裝備存管等相議題以致委員辦公室說明並提供書面資料建請委員同意第三至六案並案凍結一百萬元提出書面報告並經同意後使得凍資請委員指導好各位委員沒有意見的話我才試一下好不好我們這個案子來馬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
6703.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
6708.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
356是我的案子嘛第三案其實我們在質詢或者像剛剛機密或者現在我們都有提到保密器遺失的這個狀況其實來報的時候第一時間跟第二次跟第三次其實講的不太一樣那就這個部分因為保密器如果就是相關裝備啦包括手機等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
6726.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
6739.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
因為一開始可能如果是很多政府的高階主管其實都是有拿到我們的這些手機那他如果遺失然後沒有發現的話是不是在這個過程當中剛剛說我們的那個通訊很慢可是跟遺失是不一樣的那這中間會不會造成什麼樣影響可能也會很嚴重所以這個部分我們認為應該要有一個積極的作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
6753.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
6775.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
因為我們的預算是逐年一直在增加就這個部分那第5案的部分就是說這個特勤人員在特別租屋看守賴總統的這個部分你所有的你現在不管是我們提問的大概有多少人多少錢有多久射哨跟撤哨的SOP |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
6777.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
6777.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
第6案 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
6800.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
6813.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
是針對這個部分可能在我們局裡面之前在國安局的各營區你有設那個理髮部洗衣部自動販賣機還有無人商店等等那這些租金那這些租金因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
6818.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
6829.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
越來越少那是說我們的人可能不像國防部的那麼多可是之前為什麼有這樣的需求這個部分可能一併的說明一下好不好然後再這樣好不好那個馬委員馬委員講的這些幾個點我們會建立紀錄因為已經溝通完畢了所以我們3到6案以馬文君委員第5案為主題案其他併案處理凍結數100萬書面報告並盡同用時的凍結數 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
6847.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
6849.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
三案它是分開的也不是總統凍結一百萬一百萬太離譜了吧我們併案就合併這樣好像併案兩百啦三百你都一樣那也幾個月了 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
6858.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
6876.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
病案凍結300萬病案凍結300萬以馬文君委員的第5案為主題案提出書面報告後使得凍結書面報告內容請包括今天委員追尋的部分接下來處理第7案到第 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
6877.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
6879.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
我建議參考我們召委的數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
6907.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
6909.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
這部分我凍結的這個金額是最低的 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
6922.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
6934.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
那當然大家所注意到的可能就是電費跟這個水費的這部分可是我後來有發現說像這個瓦斯費的部分國安局可能要稍微注意一下你們編列的這個金額像113年你們編列了118萬7千元金額不高可是實際上你們的實際數只有48萬像112年也是一樣你們編列了這個112年編列了也是一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
6946.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
6948.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
這部分在這裡提醒一下你們在瓦斯費的編列是不是有預算有沒有編列過高的這個現象以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
6964.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
6987.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
農美委員說完我先各位因為我今天議事組提醒我們剛才機密預算有一個附帶決議內容我就不講了那因為附帶決議我們還要連署提案我現在直接把那個文字寫進通過的內容這樣更好這樣子各位有沒有意見沒有這個第7到13本席也有提案那我們是不是併案以徐巧興委員當主提案凍結100萬因為這實質是負的沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
6989.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
7000.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
稍等,我想再講一下,不好意思委員我說一下,我只是提醒一下你們回應我們的預算審議的時候有說是因為配合電價調漲可是從112年從5600多萬到9257萬這個調漲有到,就算是水跟電分開來講的話那個調漲的速度也是太快了,所以這個東西麻煩大家注意一下那個你們書面報告的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
7017.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
7035.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
主席我也是快速講一下就是說其實有關於機密的部分我們其實都是會很給予高度的支持可是像這個就像主席所講的就是時報時消的但是你們在幅度調整的比例上面我們其實還是會嚴格審議對 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
7038.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
7040.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
第14案簡列案是陳冠廷委員的提案,請業管說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
7062.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
7083.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
請委員關心通訊費應補償這部分是提供委員書面資料說明那建請委員能夠支持同意照列請委員知道我還是建議還是要檢列因為這個政府還是臨近預算沒有新的計劃你用這樣子的方式還是以年度去編列沒有新的作為的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
7084.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
7106.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
報告委員我是第5處處長跟委員報告一下我們在這個部分是有新增因應相關的需求總共新增了12條專寫那不然這樣好不好先凍結然後等到你們給我書面把那個目的就你們事前沒有溝通嗎有先凍啦先凍然後接下來書面報告後總額多少這個分支項目多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
7111.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
7134.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
好了那可以啦來凍結50萬書面報告後凍資來接下來併案第15案到第19案請業管說明一致各委員辦公室說明並提供書面資料建議依馬文俊委員羅美林委員的溝通結果第15第19案併案3減20萬元以及凍結50萬元提出書面報告並經同意後使得凍資 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
7146.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
7159.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
15跟22案我們提出來的那個是一樣所以待會22案再提另外16案的部分因為我們對這個預算有疑慮的這個部分是因為他有新增 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
7161.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
7161.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
沒有把22嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
7189.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
7192.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
還有一個,沒有,22等一下好了,就是16啦,然後還有17,因為我想16跟17我們分開,分開好了,因為它是不一樣的東西,17案我們現在比較在乎的是因為它就其他網路空間、工房、技能、培訓場域,它大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
7213.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
7216.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
我們現在比較擔心的我們從建制到開始到現在為止都必須要仰賴廠商我們甚至都沒有培養自己的一個教官我們買那你如果全部都要靠廠商而且他們還進駐喔一個進駐三個人大概一個月要7萬多塊等於每個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
7233.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
7233.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
7257.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
7275.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
．．． |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
7275.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
7275.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
7299.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
7300.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
第二案我們還是希望他可以稍微高一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
7319.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
7321.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
第16案凍結200,第17案凍結100,挪美零案凍結50 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
7336.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
7341.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
第15到第19案的併案處理分別以第16案凍結200第17案凍結100第19案凍結50然後書面報告經同意後使得凍支書面報告內容請涵蓋該委員槌尋部分羅委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
7362.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
7366.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
主席我想請教一下你剛才說16 17 19我們這樣動200 150那是說這一幕全部加起來350就這整個就是15到19350我只是做分配分配到案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
7379.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
7386.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
15到19我們總共就是動350的預示我再補充一下我這個案子我這個案當初我們就想說我們取的私通安全有證照人數的比例之前就一直定在88%那後來反映說其實我們早就實際值早就已經拔標了所以後來你們把它改成90%這目標值這部分我能夠接受可是我還是要補充一點就是說現在我們的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
7408.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
7426.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
提供的指標就單純的檢視資安人員他具有相關證照的這個比例可是呢我們國安局他是作為一個資安責任A級的機關如果是按照資通安全責任等級分級辦法的話其實我們要很明確的要求A級機關的資安專職人員必須取得比如說4張以上的這個證照然後非專職人員也需要定期接受資安的這個訓練可是我們發現說我們在這個績效 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
7434.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
7435.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
17案我們希望可以調高他的那個凍結數 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
7464.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
7467.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
因為這個我剛剛除了剛剛講的以外如果我們被攻破的時候甚至還要找廠商來做我們完全沒有辦法去做現場的處理這是很嚴重的問題所以這個部分我們希望他可以獨立出來而且必須要找到一個合適的一個處置的作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
7486.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
7508.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
毛永國看這樣子我們15到18案定案處理以馬文君委員的提案我們抓第16案來當代表案但是你剛才問的內容通通要涵蓋在書面報告範圍內主席剛剛你們有講15跟16其他的東西是不一樣的所以我們還是希望你用兩百兩百兩百兩百兩百兩百兩百兩百兩百兩百兩百兩百兩百 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
7513.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
7513.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
對阿,而且沒有,不是阿,不是17的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
7518.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
7532.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
會有問題嗎?這個金額其實都很高我們剛剛講的是他應該要有一個作為出來我們大家有共識就邁進啦但是我還是因為還有其他要併進去啦原則上16案凍結200書面報告金童佑史的凍資15、17、18案合併凍結200以17案這個為主題案然後書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
7544.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
7545.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
第20案提案委員徐巧欣委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
7576.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
7591.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
提案委員徐巧欣委員是關心洗滌設備租金跟更新公安機預算重疊的議題我們已經有提供素面資料說明然後建勤委員能夠同意照列來徐委員好等我一下翻一下在哪20案在哪這個因為他沒有重疊 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
7597.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
7599.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
20案這邊是你們在編列預算的時候就關於影印機跟洗滌設備有的寫租賃有的寫購置所以說我這邊等一下我再翻一下你等我一下我剛剛出去上個廁所就回來20案是這個嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
7625.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
7627.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
銀印機及洗滌設備業務費物品訓練中心B、更新洗衣機、烘衣機費用53萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
7640.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
7668.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
其實它是有重疊的情形就是我們前後去看所以當時我是要求國安局要確切列出洗滌設備是租用或是購入為主那所以說這個國安局這次的預算提案說明資料這邊有提到了就是它是說有一部分是租賃有一部分是購置那這邊我希望我們這邊能夠就是檢列就不用了那我凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
7671.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
7685.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
我們簡單凍結10萬元但請你們再把這個10萬元就20%了沒我簡單說明一下因為那個設備是在不同的營區我知道我知道我現在看你們的說明因為本來沒有說明嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
7686.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
7707.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
但是因為我希望知道說你們的租賃的這個價格跟你的購置的這個價格你們的預算預算大概要怎麼去分配因為你這個你這個雖然你的價格是538000嘛但是因為你有租又有購然後你又把它寫在一起所以我希望說你們可以把你們租的你們租的價格跟你們購置的價格能夠分開寫然後分開寫然後讓我知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
7714.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
7737.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
那你只要書面報告給我不需要再經同意而動之好不好他這個其實是分開寫的啦目視的一個是那個區內中心我知道你分開寫啊但是你這邊你上面有去說明了啦他是分開的啦你沒有來跟我說明啊你就只有這個而已啊不然你現在講也可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
7740.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
7761.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
沒有啦就是我們他來講過一次了這樣子喔我們抓五萬塊錢凍結然後書面報告後使得凍結這樣好不好沒有問題你就給我書面一張紙那我跟你說我跟你說因為你租賃的部分以後會每年都有所以我要看你租賃的價格 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
7763.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
7764.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
第21案還原委員提案請業管說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
7793.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
7814.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
以致委員辦公室說明必提供書面資料本案已獲委員同意改列組決議請委員指導來 黃任委員對 因為有來商討過改為組決議最主要就是說當然我們的國安人員的一個特性屬於比較高危險所以我們希望近期能夠再更能夠進入到公股因為一般私人的保險裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
7815.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
7820.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
二十二案委馬文君委員提案關心本局國安局網站的內容的議題一致委員辦公室說明那本案建情委員同意照列馬委員請說 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
7846.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
7864.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
15跟22你是病安凍結那這個部分為什麼會特別提出來因為國安局是國家很高階高層的一個單位位階很高然後你明明有英文的版面的版頁的設計可是你卻沒有英文叫人家點進去看的時候必須要連結到我們的中文這個部分去做中文版的連結替代我覺得這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
7871.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
7886.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
這個很奇怪而且你如果是歐洲國家或者你說日韓啊或者東南亞國家他點進去看不到你明明有要不然你就把它撤下來就不要用那你連國安局都沒有辦法做到這個部分而且就還不能凍結我覺得這個可能交代不過去啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
7891.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
7901.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
馬偉因為這個我建議這樣好不好22案我們剛才在第15案也有海天網站嘛那時候平安凍結200了所以我們這邊就不再凍但是你們的書面報 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
7902.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
7923.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
你們的書面報告我剛有一起宣讀書面報告要涵蓋你現在問的這個部分好不好這樣我們來處理就是第22案原則上就照列但是請在前面這個凍結第15案的部分要把這個委員垂詢的部分一併納入說明再來處理第23案到26案 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
7927.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
7940.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
23案至26案併案提案委員黃仁委員等4位委員以致委員辦公室說明或提供書面資料建議依馬文君委員溝通的結果併案3減20萬元以及凍結50萬元提出書面報告後使得凍資請委員指導來委員有沒有要詮詢的來有來曲曉鑫委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
7947.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
7959.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
呃我在這個地地地地地25案的部分吼我這邊有很大的意見那當然我現在的呃檢列金額跟凍結金額我們這邊都可以再調整可是我要講就是說我們在這個呃我25-1吼這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
7963.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
7967.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
第5處我們這個秦傳通聯系統的話機325萬ALE20數位話機阿我去幫你們尋過價了你們買300台157萬元但我去幫你們尋價了一台只要5200元ALE30數位話機200台你們買說168萬元我去幫你們尋過價一台只要8400元 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
7989.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
8014.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
數位化視訊系統52萬2000元你說15台嘛HDMI分屏器60台都沒有這麼貴喔我覺得你們在這個整個編列這個第5處這個秦船通聯化技上面的整個巡架上面出了很大的問題這個我直接因為這個ALE20然後ALE30你只要上網Google然後打電話去巡架這都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
8016.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
8016.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
科技中心買電腦100台95萬易經37台13萬會議桌椅40張12萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
8035.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
8063.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
其實都說真的有點偏高然後你的烘衣機所以剛為什麼前面有講一個烘衣機的問題就是你看雖然我知道你們在不同的地方但是你說烘衣機文康器材修修鞋椅什麼窗簾屏風那88800種種53萬8你把它全部弄在一起我希望你們可以分開列好然後再來就是你們第4個因應什麼中共複合式威脅888好等等的然後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
8064.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
8090.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
物價上漲趨勢然後你在這邊你講說中共複合式威脅國際區域戰事感覺後面要列一個很重要的東西但你真列的是碳粉夾然後後面突然加了感光滾筒跟遠古這邊我想要知道他不是一般耗材那你的廠商是什麼樣的廠商然後你這裡你花了340萬元所以我不知道你碳粉夾跟感光滾筒跟遠古把它放在一起的理由是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
8091.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
8112.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
所以在這裡我覺得有這個復烂編列的問題好然後再來第二頁的部分再也是一樣是物品4261萬6千元那第5處大量更換設備化劑等325萬等等也是一樣嘛你就說呢持續使用了22年然後故障率偏高 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
8113.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
8113.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
請夜管說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
8141.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
8164.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
委員您好我是第5處處長針對剛剛有關於委員您巡駕的部分因為我們本局所使用的雖然是同機型的化機但是我們的功能和坊間的功能不太一樣我們有一些特別的需求包括一些勤船及總機加密的部分所以說這個價格可能跟坊間看到的商品 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
8164.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
8172.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
本身是不太一樣的這首先說明第二後續所有的招標都是採公開招標的部分那這個東西也都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
8173.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
8175.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
主機當然沒有問題阿那你一般的這個化機為什麼你要用買的不是租的阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
8203.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
8212.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
因為現在一般的話機來講的話我們是租賃比較多用買的比較少我們目前話機基於相關保密的考量全部都是用買的 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
8213.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
8234.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
你全部都要用買的就對了做相關的更換好但我必須說你提說那你的數位畫畫機那你說有保密所以比較貴那你貴在哪裡你也要跟我們講啊因為這個價差實在是太大了他那個要為你們客製化嗎要客製化那因為我們通聯的對象不是只有國內 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
8236.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
8261.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
還有一些國外的通聯需求所以這些花季在做客製化的過程中會比原本的房間所賣的價格少那你就不應該直接列說ALE20你就要寫說你是有特就是你懂我的意思嗎你第5處你在說明的時候你就要寫說因為你直接列了這個產的編號的話那大家當然就可以自己去查說那那是什麼東西嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
8261.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
8261.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
馬文君委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
8292.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
8296.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
因為這是公開審查預算你確定有客製化嗎?我確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
8298.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
8323.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
哪一個部分你說客製化的部分在跟總機在跟總機做相關的規範的時候因為我們的通聯管道因為你其他的你除了總機你會有一些特殊的特殊的處理以外你其他的其實都是包括你的電腦科技中心要買100台的極簡型電腦他就是一般的電腦所以而且你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
8323.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
8327.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
國安局其實買這麼多電腦你的人數跟那個電腦的人跟電腦的配比到底合不合理每年我們待會後面也還會討論到就是說你一個專案就一台電腦那你到底有多少專案你像這樣一個科技中心你就買就買了100台了而且你是買極簡型的電腦你除了主機以外你其他的就是就是一般的電腦你們說明的時候也是這樣所以客製化不是每一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
8354.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
8360.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
各位好,我是科技東京主任我們中心買了100台的晶瑩電腦它主要就是在公共區域很多監視畫面它其實不需要這麼高的電腦然後我們另外還有我們人員的教育訓練要臨時架設一個環境所以它的電腦不需要很高檔 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
8381.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
8382.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
我們先這樣大家初步溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
8399.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
8420.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
有關委員詢問部分請列入說明的部分陳冠廷委員簡單補充就是說其實從辦公室的非消耗用品到物品的大象其實增加的幅度都是60%以上從大象來看所以消耗品的使用都是才一個年度才一年的變化都這麼大所以還是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
8421.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
8421.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
馬文俊委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
8434.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
8437.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
這個部分剛剛因為我們不是說包括我們的那個什麼投幣機啊或者什麼立法廳啊什麼是因為我們的面積都很小然後我們的人數不多所以其實我們那些全部都拿掉了嘛可是你現在說你買那個電腦其實要做很多的監視的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
8453.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
8454.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
這個部分該尊解就要尊解 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
8481.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
8506.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
你應該電腦的使用方式你該買就買我們沒有意見可是你買的時候必須要有尊潔的使用方式而不是國安局哇每次都是用這樣每次都買上百台好幾百台然後費用也沒有比人家低你買的也是極簡型的電腦而已自己稍微刪一下然後凍結是希望可以有一個有效的一個處置就是精進的一個方式好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
8510.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
8530.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
我這邊的話建議剪裂200萬 凍結100萬不曉得國安局這裡可不可以接受剛才大家討論的話大家聽聽看這個意見是不是以黃人委員的提案為剪裂提案剪裂50然後凍結案以陳冠廷的委員的提案為提案凍結100 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
8532.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
8553.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
然後書面報告後已經同意使得動之那檢列的部分請科目自調可是黃人委員的檢列是一百萬啊對所以我現在在討論嘛黃人委員一百啦一百啦就照黃人委員參選一個啦好不好你們檢列一百OK嗎檢列五十好了不要啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
8554.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
8582.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
沒有你們這真的就是這就是真的我覺得不合理啊那個我會選不同委員當然是有分配這個數量的問題啦那現在就是說那個簡列50科目字條那我們凍結100的部分請把剛才委員比方說你這型號一樣為什麼價錢有價差說明清楚相關的部分請書面報告把它詳列清楚才能凍支這樣好不好我們這樣來處理啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
8583.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
8596.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
主席,您可以...沒有,那個黃任委員,是不是要堅持一下?因為你這邊,你這邊黃任委員,你是不是可以要堅持一下你自己的...好,謝謝黃任委員你50是不是?對啊,謝謝黃任委員那你50就50了 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
8599.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
8618.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
剪列以黃仁委員提案為主題案科目自行調整剪列50萬有關凍結的部分我們併案處理以陳冠廷委員的提案為主題案凍結100萬書面報告經同意後使得凍資報告內容請涵蓋剛才委員在現場隨詢的部分所以請國安局做記錄人請務必記錄清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
8619.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
8641.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
好接下來我們來處理第27案到37案的並案處理請葉管說明27案至37案提案委員委馬文君委員等7位委員以分別至各委員辦公室說明或提供書面資料建議依各委員溝通結果並案凍結50萬元提出書面報告後時的凍資請委員指導來委員有沒有要詢問的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
8642.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
8661.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
我們沒有同意凍結50萬這個部分就是說27案的這個部分是我們的夜點費因為國防部已經把它調整成100元了那我們現在也同意跟著調嘛 對不對增加26萬多 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
8665.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
8691.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
發言委員有關於國防部軍職業點費調整的這個部分正式的發布的這個公文的日期是在今年的8月底的時候那在8月底的時候來不及那邊到114年的預算案那所以說我們在114年要把這個調整的這個從60元調為100元這個部分那邊那未來會按照這個國防部的標準來核實那邊業點費需求你明年要支薪的是100還是60你明年1月1號開始支薪的是60還是100100元 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
8693.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
8705.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
那在114年開始要執行月點費的劣資的時候是按照100元的標準那相關的預算需求我們會就原編的人事費理念按行政院的規定來調整支應以上報告這屬於人事費的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
8709.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
8736.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
報告委員跟你補充說明就我們估算的結果估算的結果大概我們的這個偵編的額度需求如果從60元調為100元估算後大概總預算規模大概約180萬元對就我自己的人事費是可以做一個調整列資以上報告希望這個部分一點費就是按照那個可是我還有一個就是35案的部分這個部分我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
8742.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
8749.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
這個因為你是要買一個什麼要裝那個冰水主機冷卻水塔對不對要更換嘛然後你的預算是2000多萬你買設備不是工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
8758.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
8761.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
你換冷氣的主機還有一些管線要更新為什麼還要有那個設計監照的費用比如說像我們大概你水電它大概是這一方面是最強的結果你還特別而且過去國安局是沒有的沒有編這種什麼那個設計監照的這個部分包括你其他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
8779.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
8780.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
夜館說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
8799.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
8817.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
整個的這個從規劃設計這個我們都必須要符合整個工程會的規範所以說我們這個編列都是按照工程會的這個規定去做核實編列這些都是有專業的技師而且要去技師要簽證那所以說這些部分是我們比較需要的部分謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
8818.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
8818.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
委員麻煩 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
8848.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
8873.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
有關夜點費其實我相信在場委員都是關心希望能夠達到100元那國安局說明我個人是可以接受因為宣誓要到100元的時候已經過了預算書送進立法院的時間但我們該確保他明年1月1號開始是100元不能打折扣那既然不要他打折扣我們在預算的凍結跟相關的三檢列上我們可能斟酌一下這個案子是不是這樣子我們就凍結100萬凍結100萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
8878.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
8892.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
主席因為你35含在裏面嘛對啊35那是不合理的啊你2000多萬然後你買的那個是設備你不是工程然後你編了這個部分那應該這樣我來踢五十五十嗎沒有啦你不要五十啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
8901.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
8915.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
27案到37案不含35案凍結100萬以王定宇委員提案為主題案書面報告後使得動之主席我可以補充說明一個部分嗎就我在這裡面很快 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
8917.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
8939.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
我宣讀完我宣讀完那你說明然後第35案的凍結100萬書面報告經同意後使得凍支好那個林處理委員補充說明好因為其實我跟羅美林委員比較關注的當然就是人力的增加的部分那當時我們認為是說面積沒有增加但是卻需要打掃的人力那個這部分希望你們說明那我大概算了一下如果是 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
8940.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
8961.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
增加三個人然後多150萬你平均除一年大概50萬這樣獎金吧所以月薪大概是4萬因為最近現在大家都在討論有關於公務機關是不是有霸凌啦或者是說這個所謂勞務過重的部分所以我我們這邊與同意就是你們增加但是也希望在這個部分能夠給基層人員一些更好的福利 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
8962.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
8987.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
好 第38案徐小青委員提案剛才我們在處理第5案的時候案有一樣我們就併在那邊一併處理好不好對 一樣的東西啦剛才 剛才凍結300好不好 OK好 我們38案就同意照列併入前面第5案一併處理好 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
8991.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
8997.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
一樣 你看一下 第5案一樣我們確認一下 我們兩個確認一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
9002.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
9010.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
提案委員為陳冠廷委員等4位委員以分別自委員辦公室溝通說明或是提供書面資料然後建議病案 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
9032.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
9037.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
三九至四十案並按凍結五十萬元提出書面報告後（使得凍支．請委員指導來 有沒有委員要追詢來 馬委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
9045.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
9053.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
在40案的部分我們特別提到的就是說在去年其實選舉的時候我們有特別買了4組的車輛那有3組是候選人然後1組是預備的那在選都是提供給選舉候選人使用而且我們買的 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
9065.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
9065.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
9084.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
9089.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
那其他單位有沒有辦法使用或者其實那只是一個形式上的結果你拿去以後他們都沒有在動結果就把它擺擺到15年時間過了以後就很便宜的把它賣出我覺得這個對我們整個在預算上其實是很不划算就這個部分可以做一個更清楚的說明未來說明的時候其實沒有很詳細 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
9108.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
9134.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
這個其實我們大概每一屆都會問到這個啦就是說總統特警車輛嘛都很漂亮都名牌的然後打下來之後你丟到松子部都在哪裡其實那個吃油太重了沒有人敢開那個啦所以我們其實每年都會討論這個每四年會討論一次啦可是應該要有一個做法過去沒有總是現在你至少不然很浪費欸因為你們特警車好像也不能賣掉來你們說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
9135.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
9152.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
主席報告委員跟您做一個說明確實這個每4年都會遇到一次因為我們給總統的車隊的車子的規格基本上都安全防護要很高那自然是高價舉個例來講今年的是BMW740那你這個淘汰下來沒有單位敢收啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
9153.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
9179.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
因為他的維護費換4個輪胎他可能要買一台車所以說那防彈車他更貴那4個輪胎要300萬我們現在的運用基本的原則就是給我們特勤的支援單位但是這些全部都是要符合警備車7年淘汰行政車15年淘汰我們才會檢討他到送到我們的支援單位那比方說警政署或者是調查局我們的支援的勤務的單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
9180.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
9202.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
那其他的單位基本上也不太敢收那我們都是按照行政院的標準警備車7年那這個一般的行政車是15年太久我現在就說其實我們就每4年其實大概都會討論到這個部分可是真的對啊可是真的是你就把它擺到擺到時間到然後這樣真的是看這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
9205.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
9229.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
我跟馬委員在這邊比較久我們大概每4年會討論一次我個人的心得我也想不出什麼好辦法因為選總統幾組你就知道要買幾組的車那也不能假設誰會當選用防震的剩下的就用紙糊的也不行都一樣的規格所以淘汰下來也不能亂給沒有人要收啦所以這個我不會把它稱為浪費啦它變成是一個民主活動的必要性的支出5組候選人就6組 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
9230.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
9244.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
一組候選人兩組這個是沒有辦法所以這個部分我們請你們去思考大家及時管理怎麼去處理這個案子這個39案到42案請說簡單講一下就是說因為我看到你們的這個態度的車輛已經是25輛等於說已經是換新了可是你們的保養的預算卻是 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
9253.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
9279.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
總務長 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
9281.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
9302.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
這個剛剛我們特警中心主任也講因為這涉及到一些安危的任務而且他的違保費確實是比較高所以說我們都是按照時需去做經費的調漲以上這個是實質估算但是陳萬田委員質疑也有點道理就是說你的車輛減少然後違保費用調高是漲價了是誤調的關係還是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
9312.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
9315.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
你們有沒有說明因為有很多有剛剛講B&W進口車那所以說那維保費確實比較高 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
9320.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
9324.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
還有沒有動?沒有動還是要維保呢?還有其他的車輛啦其實要說明的是其他車輛因為不是只有總統的這些車輛而已你其他因為你這一次台灣二十幾輛啊而且到底是給哪些單位其實應該在書面報告書裡面要詳細的列出來這樣子喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
9344.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
9366.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
本提案以林楚英委員提案為主提案我們凍結50萬書面報告內容請包含今天委員所含所垂詢的部分那書面報告後使得動之好接下來是第43案徐小青委員的提案那個請夜館說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
9368.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
9397.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
市商案提案委員為徐巧欣委員關心本局設備更新工程尊潔預算之議題本局在114年度的機械設備養護費較上年度其實已經減列了980萬元但是在114年我們確實有一些機械設備必須要持續的來維養那包含我們特勤中心的空調管路送風設備以及科技中心的一些圍牆整建那本項提案請委員能夠同意照列謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
9398.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
9426.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
來請委員第一件事情就是說你們這個算是就是說你們覺得呢這個特勤中心老舊所以希望說呢包含圍籬整件然後整體的補強所以為什麼你們要就是每年這樣子去買然後就不編一個就整體特勤中心的連續性預算去把它就做一個好就整體的一個就讓它完善一點這是我第一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
9427.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
9450.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
那第二個問題是說你這個第二點的這個你跟我說明的冰水主機跟空調送風機在我另外一邊就是在69案的部分齁其實你在科技中心編列營區空調系統冰水主機汰換案裡面還有2300萬啊所以我不太知道說為什麼你們這個冰水主機汰換工程設計會在兩個地方會出現 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
9454.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
9468.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
那這個理由是什麼呢後面還另外還有喔就在另外這個局本部的就是在我看你你給我的這個最後一頁也還都有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
9470.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
9470.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
來請業管說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
9498.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
9515.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
各位好科技中心主任報告我們中心那個主辦第43案我們有最主要是我們圍牆我們圍牆我們1989年建立完了之後那個圍牆始終沒有修所以有很多地方都已經倒塌了所以我們正式上我們把所有檢討所有應該要把它補強的或者把它補強的地方用一次的計畫把它完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
9520.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
9520.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
委員．．． |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
9543.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
9570.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
對阿因為你在43案69-1 69-2都有有在不同的地方有出現同樣的東西請總務說明我們局本部的這個畢業主席他從民國86年到現在在使用所以說他的時間也相當長所以說我們也是做這方面的所以你們有不同的名稱一個是在特勤中心一個是在局本部啦科技中心局本部是好那需要永遠考慮你說一個在特勤中心嘛科技 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
9573.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
9599.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
一個在局本部嘛特勤科技中心局本部那我問的問題就是說那你的這個冰水主機在不同的單位分別的價格你們估算是多少錢因為你們就是因為你看喔你在43案的時候是把維尼冰水主機空調送風機然後什麼就blablabla全部都放在一起然後你算了一個數字嘛好那但是呢你在69之1 69之2的時候就 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
9601.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
9614.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
就我的意思說你們是把所有東西這樣列在一起讓我們沒有辦法去看說那你的每一項大概是多少這樣去評估你的冰水主機的價格是否合理我們這個案子我們是比照剛才馬委員那個案子三個單位對不對所以你是買了三套對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
9623.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
9628.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
每一個營區都有專管嗎?都有設計監照嗎?三個設計監照嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
9635.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
9637.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
我們中心的科技中心的冰水組區我們明年我們今年把設計建造已經做完了 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
9656.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
9658.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
這三個都需要專業的氣勢去做設計設計完了之後整個大樓的管線要重新佈置 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
9674.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
9674.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
9691.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
9711.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
去年大概去年大家都比較忙沒有仔細的看到這個因為所有的你的水電又碰到水跟電其實他都有甲級技師的執照是水電才有你的那個設計建造公司本身並沒有具備這樣所以他每一個都把他 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
9712.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
9718.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
編這個我覺得這個可能要稍微說明一下這個部分所以我剛剛講我們是比照剛才馬委員那個提案把它凍結100萬好然後那個我不是我覺得我在那個43 69跟就是43 69就都有出現這個冰水主機的部分你要一併處理嗎一併處理好不好43我看一下因為這樣我們動作會比較快一點還有69還有嗎對 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
9739.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
9742.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
619因為還有三台嘛所以應該會有三個我應該都有剛剛已經動一個了那這樣子動200好了好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
9745.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
9754.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
主席現在處理我覺得說用凍結的方式可是我覺得應該要把它明確化未來為什麼要編這個這個很重要而且還每一個都編有關第43案跟69案兩案我們併案凍結200萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
9768.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
9792.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
那書面報告經同意後使得動之那在書面報告內容請國安局特別注意當我們採購這樣子的冷水主機等等的時候他賣你這個機子他應該就要幫你施作是不是可以遵截設計建造費用請你們把它寫到裡面去詢問一下因為我們一般 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
9793.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
9797.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
一般採購會把它合併在裡面所以因為它有兩個病案凍結兩百萬所以除了這個請問大家的意見就是說除了這個你剛剛講說凍結兩百萬對不對那我希望這邊再減列五十萬元作為一個我還是希望可以作為一個就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
9816.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
9834.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
因為我覺得這樣編列真的不是很好啦所以我50萬元不是一個很大的數字但我希望作為一個就是要求他們未來在整體預算編列的時候不要用這樣子因為你其實你明年可能還會再編那我覺得你看因為你去年編了今年編了你明年其實還是會再編你這兩個案都凍結案對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
9835.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
9838.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
第43案69案並案凍結200萬書面報告金銅鑰匙的凍支那書面報告的內容請包含該本席才是的部分另外檢列50萬科目知情調整再來第44案請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
9865.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
9868.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
事事案提案委員馬文君委員關心本局國內旅費增列的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
9881.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
9885.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
第44項請說明本局114年度國內旅費較上年度增列了16000元那主要增列的原因其實是因應本局執行治安健檢所需要的國內旅費 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
9905.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
9905.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
國內旅費111年金額不多 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
9920.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
9924.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
可是你一直增加我們覺得很奇怪111年的時候是105萬112年的時候是110萬113年的時候甚至108萬而已就今年那你104年變成117萬我們去年甚至還有選舉你可能在國內旅費的部分有很多還反而會增加可是你不斷不斷的在這個部分國內旅費的部分增加找不到什麼比較好的理由所以這個部分你們稍微 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
9950.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
9968.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
馬委員第一個我先確認你們是不是有溝通同意照列了沒有這部分我們有提相關的書面資料跟委員報告這邊藉著機會跟委員做補充報告看你們說有治安健檢那你每年都有治安健檢跟委員報告就是說我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
9972.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
9988.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
今年增列跟明年增列主要的差別就是我們今年編列8000塊明年增列16000塊到24000塊我們是以一個案子的資安健檢任務給同仁的國內的旅費每人 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
9989.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
9989.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
每天400塊的去計算一個案子20天 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
10010.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
10026.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
明年是最高的可是我們不知道你的那個用途在哪因為這是時知時負的啦你們減淚10萬會不會影響這部分我們是按照我們明年的自然健檢的需求去有它的需求減淚10萬可能會影響它是有必要性的減淚10萬它那個項目的量就會減少了麻煩這樣好不好你那10萬改凍結啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
10030.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
10034.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
那我不要凍結10萬那你凍結你把那個列出來嘛好不好你所謂的你所謂的你把那個你既然都已經可以算出來那表示你知道你有多少案件數那你把它列出來那凍結50萬好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
10048.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
10059.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
總數多少?總數多少?總數30你就把它列出來你既然可以算出來說你必須要花這麼多那你就把它列出來嘛我們20啦書面報告把它詳細列出來30還好吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
10063.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
10064.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
第45案第46案來並案處理請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
10091.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
10109.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
45萬至6萬病案是分別為徐曉欣委員跟林玉君委員提案以自委員辦公室說明跟提供資料這是有關於特別費的部分建情委員能夠同意照列我先說明好不好因為我們局長這麼有誠意我就同意照列那個林玉君委員勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
10111.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
10123.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
主席因為剛剛前面已經凍結了啦我可以同意不凍結局長的特別費啦但是還是要針對招募人員的不足請局長身為首長的話要特別多積極一點所以改用書面報告所以林委員是要照列還是要凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
10126.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
10129.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
我們現在併案處理47案到52案請夜管說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
10147.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
10159.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
47案至52案並案提案委員為徐巧行委員等6位委員指導有關於我們的房屋建築及設備的預算執行進度都分別自各委員辦公室說明或提供書面資料建請47至50案並案凍結100萬元提出書面報告後使得凍資請委員指導來 羅美玲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
10169.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
10195.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
這一案我想請教一下我們大興房舍新建工程我們已經6度流標我想請教一下國安局我們後面要如何改善如何處理這個部分請說明總務是用整修的方式沒有改建一直流標6次而且我們提高價錢也標不出去為什麼你們是奧客所以沒有人要來標我們要求太多了我們要求不能使用外勞一大堆的規定那廠商的 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
10195.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
10195.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
第53案請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
10225.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
10253.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
提案委員馬文君委員關心本局電腦採購的議題以致委員辦公室說明那建勤委員能夠同意本案凍結50萬元提出書面報告並經同意後使得凍資請委員指導來馬委員請這個部分我們看到因為從剛剛科技中心採購這些相關的設備或者像電腦我們可以看到現在目前整個國安局有3000多台電腦 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
10255.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
10258.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
為什麼要這麼多 3000多台那因為我們電腦在汰換的時候大概是4到6年就會汰換可是你每年都買非常非常的多那從我們過去就前面幾年我們每年都看到我們買這麼多的電腦這是第一個那為什麼你有效的運用要怎麼樣更聰明的去運用這些資訊的資產而不是一直買一直買我們知道你們3000多台的目的是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
10283.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
10285.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
另外一個就是我們也看到國安局的單位在更新裝備的時候我們都不是針對需求或是損壞比如說像之前在科技中心廚房要更新的時候他是把所有廚房的全部都換掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
10302.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
10303.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
國安局發言委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
10323.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
10323.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
50到50是一起嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
10342.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
10354.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
沒有53單獨53單獨100可是要把它說明清楚就是你每年買了那麼多的電腦我們知道為什麼那個蔡局長這一題這一題也是本委員會的老題目了我們定期都會看到這些東西其實你們必須說明清楚我的電腦的數量是要支應什麼使用因為你們電腦還有分你們還有分內跟外 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
10366.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
10382.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
的使用跟更換的必要性第53案就按照馬文俊委員提案凍結100萬元書面報告請含包含委員詢問的部分及本席詢問的部分那經同意後使得凍支好接下來並案處理54到63案請業管說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
10387.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
10403.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
54至63案提案委員分別為徐巧欣委員等8位委員是關心本局有關各項設備汰換必要性的議題以分別到各委員辦公室說明或提供書面資料建請委員能夠同意併案凍結100萬元提出書面報告後使得凍資請委員指導徐巧欣委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
10405.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
10427.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
我這邊54-1-2-3都有提到就是說你們在國安局的設備裡面包含什麼桌球台、健身器材、無線對講機、音響設備、桌椅、健身器材就出現了兩次以上然後教室的部分一間教室要83萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
10429.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
10450.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
雖然你說教室到現在已經20年可是你說如果只是做一些更新的話那其實有需要這麼多錢嗎再加上你的餐廳設備更新案全案也要150萬雜項設備55萬元那你說訓練中心餐廳用了20年可是說只是更新而不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
10450.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
10458.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
就說全面全面的重做那你要花到150萬我覺得以現在行情價來說都是偏高然後你的什麼引體向上健身器材太夠149,000我個人會覺得就是說在這一個你看這麼多委員都有提出凍結或是刪除的原因就是我覺得你們沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
10473.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
10474.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
林竹英委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
10502.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
10527.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
王逸川委員馬文君委員當然有到我們辦公室來溝通過了那其實這邊的6127萬里頭當然包含的部分非常的多有什麼冷卻水塔啦但是也有一些是沙發冷氣所以它會變成是當我們在看這筆預算的時候它通通都混在一起了那裡頭有特別提到的是有一些設備是用24年以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
10529.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
10529.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
王毅創委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
10558.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
10583.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
好,這些個別你們估這個價錢一定有個別的單價你們才會估嘛那你就把那個東西給大家看啊不然你隨便找一大筆數字去把它亂算算完了結果好像每一項都個別都覺得很貴所以我是建議後續把這資料補上來因為你們編預算不會亂編嘛你們那個數字出來一定是加總的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
10584.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
10584.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
馬文君委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
10604.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
10612.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
謝謝主席就這個部分62案其實我們比較特別的部分就是在之前質詢的時候有特別提出來就是我們槍擊偵測系統夜間攝影套件的這個部分為什麼我們認為這個有問題因為在去年要選舉的時候我們編了700多萬去買這兩套那時候有日間有夜間還有其他可能有四個項目可是廠商當時的報價700多他報700多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
10635.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
10643.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
所以他可能得標了可是他到最後說好像又要漲價又要調高價格所以在這個部分我們那時候國安局把夜間的這個攝影套件把它拿掉可是還是700多萬那今年突然變成1000多萬要買這夜間的這個部分當時在巡打的時候特別提到說我們突然要增加熱顯像 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
10664.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
10666.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
可是如果是這樣問題就出在我們的採購人員你當時是沒有要求要這樣到真的採購然後廠商要調高價格的時候我們反而給他一個條件讓他可以增加這個經費預算的這個這個空間那 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
10681.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
10693.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
如果說按照他原來的報價700多萬可以買到結果你不但沒有買到那些今年又變了1000多萬等於是雙三倍的價格所以這個部分我們認為有非常大的問題而且廠商當時的報價他買了也不然可能有很多家那你買了這家 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
10701.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
10705.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
就只有一家那更於取於求因為他沒有我把它講完他變成這個廠商他現在他賣了那個組裝備以後你現在其他的附屬裝備全部要跟他買所以這個才是真的有可能是養套殺的這種模式所以這個部分我覺得這非常嚴重這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
10722.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
10730.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
我本來是有提簡略跟凍結這個部分還是應該要查查清楚今天如果廠商是用這樣的模式我們就在而且就局長的說法他就只有一家那更離譜就是他那時候已經確定我們一定要然後我先給你報這樣的價然後我沒有辦法符合的時候我後面今年又更更高變一千多萬那更離譜啊所以這個部分我們建議要簡略跟凍結毛委員這樣子好不好這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
10752.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
10774.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
這個案子我們這一個併案我把它分兩區塊處理這個狙擊槍的夜間套件這一塊然後其餘的一塊在前面的設備的部分以林益君委員為主提案我們合併凍結100萬書面報告經同意後使得凍支那在馬文君跟黃人委員有關夜間套件的部分是不是凍100 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
10775.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
10776.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
我們數字上可能有一些落差我這邊再做一個這個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
10803.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
10811.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
我們在95年買的這個舊的不含夜間套件的是2600萬那我們這次買的這個套件當時在108、109年我們去仿商的時候去年報價多少?110年報價的時候就已經到4100萬去年報價多少?我們的預算數是多少?去年 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
10826.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
10854.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
我們去年沒有買夜間套件吧?夜間沒有買夜間套件但是去年它就是1400萬你去年給我們的它包含夜間套件去年在給我們的時候它裡面就包含夜間套件所以你是因為後來把它拿掉了可是還是按照原來的金額啊最後它報價的是4112萬那我們錢不夠所以我們就只買了日間套件2900萬原來報多少?因為你編了啊你有編預算啊原來多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
10855.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
10858.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
去年編的時候就是1400多萬兩套所以去年編1400多萬是含夜間套件的喔去年我把資料找出來給你好不好去年 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
10871.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
10896.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
他就是有日間夜間的套件後來你們在說明的是你們現在今年突然增加這一筆預算的時候的說明是說因為我們要求要熱選項所以那時候把它拿掉這個是非常清楚的你包括你給我們的資料其實都還有那個部分所以要講清楚因為這個是公開的這邊簡列一百你們會不會沒辦法執行有因為他這個交貨要 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
10897.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
10904.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
今年4月已經決標因為他的交貨期要400天所以說我們沒辦法是在明年的預算所以現在就變成我報價唯一的一家廠商然後我跟你報比較低的價然後我在交貨的時候我跟你說這樣不行我要調高價格所以你把夜間的把它拿掉拿掉以後你今年就再增加預算然後再去跟他買而且還不可以跟別人買這個會不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
10927.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
10951.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
來 局長這個是非常嚴重所以我想你們今天要有一個做法他是一家代理沒有錯但是因為中間有換了代理商所以是一家但是不是同一家對 所以不是說就一家從頭到最後在所謂的兩套商我們買的跟國際上的價格有沒有差異你應該要去理解的是這一個部分對 跟國際上的價格有沒有差 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
10954.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
10954.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
徐曉清委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
10983.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
10996.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
不好意思跳回去因為剛剛我還沒講到就往下跳了就是剛剛那個設備雜項設備的部分那剛剛有談到就是說以林義軍委員那主題案人是那個凍結100萬嘛對不對那在這邊因為我覺得這個總共6127萬元那這個太大一包所以我這邊還是提議說看能不能減裂100萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
11011.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
11012.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
馬偉還是我們把凍結數調高一點因為我怕影響執行的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
11024.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
11046.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
不是,我們的預算現在在審查然後可是你已經跟人家簽了合約然後那意思是不管怎麼樣我們都一定要通過的意思嘛今天如果說我們現在講的是如果我們受廠商予取予求你以後你根本沒有自主性他後續所有全部都要跟這一家買他全部都要跟這一家買 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
11048.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
11072.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
你們是因為槍是買這一家的所以套件只有這一家嘛套件它必須要是這一家因為它有軟體所以這個不管買別家的狙擊槍套件也是要用別家的所以這個是有點賣方市場啦所以我現在意思是說賣方市場沒關係啦所以我們的重點在哪裡呢我們買的這個槍型的夜間套件別國應該也有買我們不能比人家貴啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
11073.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
11094.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
這個是重點啦因為我現在買A廠牌我套件就會用A廠牌B廠牌就會用套件B廠牌所以廠牌的連通性是沒有問題但是不能因為被他綁死了我的價格就往上飆重點在這裡你們有沒有看看其他國家買到同樣的狙擊槍的夜間套件同一個型號的它的價格是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
11094.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
11115.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
我目前就是沒有辦法去要到這個報價包含雷神公司這麼大的公司他都不給我們做一個報價那這個我們之前都已經去訪過在110年我們總共訪了五家到最後願意跟我們接洽的只有兩家那都不願意報價那因為最後面只有代理的就是唯一的這一家他做一個代理而且這中間換過一個代理商 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
11116.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
11140.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
主席這個部分我們為什麼要特別探討是在國防的預算裡面其實有很多類似你透過代理商也好透過直接的一個生產的軍火商也好那都是另外一回事我們現在講的是他的手法你今天你跟我們去年跟我們報價的時候他還含日間跟夜間其實都有包含在那裡代理商報的就是有含 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
11140.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
11143.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
結果他到我們真的要買的時候他突然把價格又拉高所以我們的錢才不夠你今天就是如果我們可以讓他用這樣的手法予取予求這是我們在預算的支用上面是非常不可決而且不應該存在的所以我們才會對這個案子會特別提出來你今天說其他都不會報價 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
11162.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
11178.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
全世界如果有選舉那這種距離槍是非常普遍的不會是只有一家今天如果說他現在就是報了以後我們跟他買了他後面不買他的還不行所以他現在變更高去年我們一千多萬就可以買這些他今年變四千多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
11179.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
11197.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
所以這個部分一定要有一個組織的方式啊他是在含日夜間套件是從這個2900萬是變成4100萬因為當初我們報的時候是像95年買的最簡單95年買的是日間不含夜間套件2600萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
11198.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
11222.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
那這是我們買到的同一家公司的日間不含夜間是2900萬隔了18年他從2600變成2900同一家公司的產品所以我們從這個市場的波動性跟物價的漲幅來看這家報價還2900還算合理那重點委員關切的這個部分我們也要去增加夜間的部分增加夜間的時候當初他最後是給我們是4100萬那我們等於說2900加1400其實還是超過4100多一點點啦那這是這樣子的報價 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
11230.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
11254.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
6263我帶給你們休息時間去溝通一下我先處理54到6154到61剛才這一個徐教授我認為應該還有一些凍結這個簡略的部分我建議是不是用黃人委員的提案做簡略20萬以林益君委員做凍結100萬然後呢簡略的部分科目字條 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
11255.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
11275.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
動節的部分書面報告經同意後使得動之我們把54到61把它解決掉我覺得呢因為它這麼大一包6127萬如果只是3減20萬的話我個人覺得還是太少所以我自己是比較堅持試試看能不能夠減裂100萬那如果國安局真的覺得減裂100萬是讓你們沒有辦法運作的話我們再來討論好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
11280.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
11284.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
以黃仁委員為主提案作簡列簡列一百萬元科目自行調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
11300 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
11312.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
凍結的部分以林毅君昭偉為主提案並案處理凍結100萬書面報告經同意後使得凍支62-63案我們現在休息5分鐘你們溝通完我們回來繼續再審 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
11318.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
11319.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
立法院第11屆第2會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
11340.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
11341.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
市長市長市長市長市長市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
11355.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
11371.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
你去年對我是說你現在的版本是現在做的是113年做的我們當時拿到的資料就是說你之前要買的時候其實你已經有含之夜間了啦對啊你那時候報 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
11375.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
11378.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
三個鏡頭一個是那一個那一個的鏡頭上面那個又是他這邊那個沒差然後這邊後面 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
11889.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
11904.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
好我們恢復開會吼那有關62案63案這一個槍擊偵測系統葉建勝已套件吼本席宣告如下各位委員同仁聽一下吼 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
11914.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
11918.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
以黃人委員的提案為主提案凍結300萬書面報告經同意後使得凍支 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
11922.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
11943.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
主席順便請他們把112年就是當時我們採購的一些把舊的資料對照要列到書面報告內好書面報告請包含委員槌尋要求部分接下來64案楚瀅委員你這個案子我們在前面有一模一樣提案我們就併到那邊處理了好不好那本案就不處理了好謝謝來接下來第65到66案併案處理請葉管說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
11950.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
11965.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
提案委員分別為徐巧欣委員及沈伯洋委員以致委員辦公室說明或是提供素面資料其中第66案以獲沈伯洋委員同意改列組決議第65案建請徐巧欣委員能夠同意照列 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
11966.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
11967.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
107-114年國安局從事資通安全人員的業務人員當中資安技術管理專業證照合格人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
11984.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
12013.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
答預設標準88%但是針對特定證照的這個國際資訊安全專家認證歷年通過率低於目標通過率113年只有83%而且呢之前有國安人員拍攝不雅影片的外流事件所以我們覺得應該要提出詳細檢討報告避免類似事件再發生那原本我們是提出凍結預算是比較高的但是呢現在我們可以這邊我可以改列為 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
12014.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
12023.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
凍結金額100萬元那不曉得這個國安局這邊能不能夠接受徐教卿委員你這個案子我是不是建議用沈博洋委員當主題案啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
12024.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
12025.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
第67案 夜管說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
12055.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
12083.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
67案提案委員為林楚瑩委員關心有關於本局的教育訓練班對偵編講座終點會相關計畫之議題以致委員辦公室說明並提供書面資料建請委員同意照列請委員指導來請林楚瑩委員好因為本席其實只是想要了解到你們從110年到113年在這些所謂的專題演講當中到底有哪些人來演講那麼內容如何那因為確實已經給了我很詳盡的資料所以我可以同意照列好同意照列 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
12085.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
12087.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
68-69病案處理請夜管說明70案-73案請夜管說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
12103.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
12116.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
70案至73案提案委員黃仁委員等4位委員都是在關心有關本局資訊傳輸網路機房的整建問題與分別自委員辦公室說明或提供書面資料建請委員能同意並案凍結50萬元提出書面報告後使得凍資請委員指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
12120.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
12123.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
關體委員你現在有兩案了零一軍委員還只有一案我現在用零一軍委員當主題案好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
12141.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
12159.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
70-73案以林毅君委員為主提案並案凍結50萬出面報告後使得凍結預算機密公開部分處理完略非常感謝各位委員接下來要處理主決議因為剛才有一個改列主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
12166.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
12171.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
第86案114年度國家安全局預算案與情報行政向下行政管理中業務費之保險費中特勤人員團體意外保險費編列預算171萬元為113年度特勤人員團體意外險決標數僅151萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
12193.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
12212.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
請國家安全局、廣邀、台銀人壽等公股保險公司報價及投標並於一個月內向立法院外交及國防委員會提出書面報告說明增列原因提案人委員黃仁等委員宣讀完畢好我們全部都宣讀完畢主決議的處理方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
12213.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
12234.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
委員提案如果關局同意就直接講那個同意那我們就過去了好這個案子就是練過去練過去好我開始來處理第一案好來第會議詢問那中間如我們可以詢問關局嗎好不好好來那另外陳永康委員有委託本席所以雖然他不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
12234.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
12234.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
來 接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
12258.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
12286.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
主決議74案本局同意配合辦理照案通過75案已獲提案委員同意修正部分文字配合辦理照修正決議部分文字通過76案同意配合辦理照案通過77案已獲提案委員同意修正部分文字配合辦理照修正決議部分文字案通過78案同意配合辦理79案同意配合辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
12290.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
12306.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
80案至82案因為洪森漢委員已經撤案我們80案到82案已經我們就撤案不予處理要不然就要交到外防委員會去處理好了80到82案我們就同意撤案不予處理83案 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
12308.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
12317.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
同意配合辦理這邊有要詢問這個國安局喔就請問局長就是有關於昨天這個因為裡面有寫到朝鮮半島的部分嘛那因為昨天這個南韓有宣布突然的戒嚴又突然的解嚴那這部分想要詢問我們國安局蔡局長那昨天的這個事件那國安局評估對台灣的影響大概有哪一些好 局長請再要說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
12338.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
12362.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
這部分我們剛在跟媒體做相關的報告那主要是因為是一個政治內部的一個政治紛爭產生了一個動盪的局面那也很快落幕了那我們大概關注的重點第一個是對於南韓國內的一個政局的後續的影響因為這個可能還有涉及到對總統的罷免案那第二部分是對於朝鮮半島情勢會不會有一些後續的效應那第三個部分就是社會安全秩序的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
12362.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
12386.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
會不會影響到國人包括學生觀光客跟僑胞的安全大概有這幾個重點這個部分我們可能今天因為審查預算沒辦法詳細說明因為後續還很多因為包含他們的執政黨已經要求總統退黨然後聯合提出彈劾那政局的動盪會不會影響到商業的活動商業活動會不會影響到我們互有增補另外還有一個就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
12387.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
12414.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
如果東北亞的動盪有時候會影響到台海的局勢請國安局詳細收集相關的訊息我們會適當的時候來排專報這樣好不好因為這牽涉到他國我們不適合在這邊輕率的去做評價或討論那很多他們國家內部的情形我們未必了解我們本委員會責成國安局詳時收集相關的情資跟預判在適當時候我們會排專報 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
12417.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
12418.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
85案照修正決議部分文字通過86案 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
12440.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
12463.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
黃仁委員的專主決議的來有沒有那個請說明配合辦理好那黃仁委員有沒有意見86案照案通過各位同仁大家辛苦了114年度中央政府總預算案關於國家安全局收支公開及機密部分業已處理完畢送請財政委員會會診後提報院會請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
12470.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
12472.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
願會審議前是否需交由黨團協商願會審議時請推派一位委員做補充說明請推派 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
12488.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
12504.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
通常是召委要打這賽會那我就推派王定宇委員做補充說明本次預算審查如有預算科目物質或金額調整我們授權議事人員處理另外林玉君委員有一個案子當時候說同意照列你要把它改組決議是不是但組決議文字要出來我稱我現在還沒有結束 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
12520.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
12531.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
你把那個案又拿給我,我來唸一下要宣讀,否則不行好,我們現在增加組決議第87案林玉君召委,剛才有一個同意照列的預算案他改組決議那個好,請宣讀87案那個這個是改組決議變第87案了 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
12554.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
12573.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
114年度國家安全局預算案與情報行政行政管理中業務費預算編列476,000元國家安全局近年志願士兵招募多位達計劃目標國安局自106年至111年度各年度招募志願士兵目標人數皆為60人 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
12575.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
12592.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
國安局稅制112年度起將招募目標數減半為30人但未說明原因由美化招募率之與國家安全局面對長期招募人數不足因妥思對策捕食基層人力而非消除理事旅 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
12593.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
12604.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
下修招募至目標請國家安全局於3個月內向立法院外交及國防委員會提出書面報告提案人委員林益君等選讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
12612.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
12635.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
我重新宣讀一次本次預算審查如有預算科目物質或金額調整我們授權議事人員處理包含文字標點符號等部分12月4日及5日兩日為一次會但我提醒各位同仁明天要審退府會待會是休息不是散會所以現在休息我們明天繼續開會謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
12639.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
12639.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
謝謝!彈給立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
12646.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
12646.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
10年來 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
12675.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
12676.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
法定人數不足 |