| video_url |
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| 會議時間 |
2024-12-04T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。
二、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於數位發展部單位預算。
【僅進行詢答；委員預算提案於12月20日中午12時前截止收件】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 影片長度 |
18275 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:25 - 13:36:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1716.829 |
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1722.479 |
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出席委員已足法定人數現在開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議的議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1726.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1748.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第12次全體委員會議議事錄時間113年11月28日星期四上午9時1分至下午1時41分地點本院紅樓201會議室出席委員林國成等15人列席委員賴世保等19人列席官員行政院公共工程委員會主任委員曾經的及國家通訊傳播委員會主任秘書黃文哲等 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1749.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1768.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
主席曾召集委員數月報告四項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定討論四項一至四審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於行政面供工程委員會國家通訊傳播委員會單位預算通訊傳播監督管理基金預算有限廣播電視事業發展基金預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1769.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1799.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
五、審查113年度關於國家通訊傳播委員會預算凍結書面報告案及二案本日會議由行政院公共工程委員會主任委員曾經得及國家通訊傳播委員會主任秘書黃文哲報告後既有委員林國成等22人提出質詢軍警主任委員曾經得主任秘書黃文哲及相關人員分別予以答覆決議依報告及詢答完畢二委員王洪威所提書面質詢列入紀錄並刊登公報 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1800.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1820.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
三、委員於諮詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請相關機關建樹以書面答覆自第一案至第四案均另折其進行處理委員預算提案於12月16日星期一中午12時截止收件五、第五案另折其進行處理通過臨時提案已向上會宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1822.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1849.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
好的,業縮錄我們待會再確定現在介紹在場的列席人員首先是我們數位發展部黃彥男部長我們自己給自己掌聲打氣一下第二位我們數位策略師蔡壽泉市長蔡市長任性建設師鄭明忠市長資源管理師牛信仁市長好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1850.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1870.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
數位政府司王承明司長數位國際司莊盈智司長資料創新司莊明芬司長以及主計處李錫東處長秘書處陳仲山處長資訊處周志和處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1883.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1911.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
人事處莫永榮處長政風處陳春信處長以及法治處張學文處長接下來是資通安全署謝翠娟署長謝署長好謝謝以及我們數位產業署林俊秀代理署長署長要代理多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1917.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1929.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
國家自動安全研究院何全德院長行政院主計總署公預算處檢驗視察李培元視察 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1931.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1954.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
好以上是今天的列席人員本次會議進行第一邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況及立法計畫第二114年度數位發展部單位預算審查詢答的部分好好那我們現在就請我們書發部黃部長針對業務概況的報告立法計畫及預算一併說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1960.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1961.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
請。 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1971.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1996.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
主席各位委員大家好今天應邀列席會委員會報告本部114年施政計畫及預算編列的情形深感榮幸感謝各位委員對本部各項業務的支持跟指教以下僅就113年的預算執行期型跟114年的施政計畫重點預算編列的情形分別報告如下請看簡報這是簡報大綱請參考下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2000.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2016.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
上任之後就有三個施政理念那就是一個就是我們要推動打詐工作強化數位韌性跟發展數位經濟那目標是希望能夠配合賴總統數位政策建立一個科技智慧島數位新社會下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2019.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2040.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
打詐的工作我們在9月底到10月中有做一次網路詐騙通報查詢網的公測那公測結果在到11月目前還在公測中有12000多人次在測試中那目前有看到通報的次數是48648則的通報那裡面有15211則因為確認之後就要求業者下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2048.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2061.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
從這裡面的結果我們看到這個偽冒名人的詐騙廣告從過去最高一個禮拜有38139折到目前大概降到2117折那金融詐騙廣告從過去最高77484折到現在下降到4636折也就下降都90%以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2071.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2092.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我們預計從這個使用者的feedback我們預計12月底會有推出個新的測試版本在下一頁那為了防詐我們有推動了一些策略那這邊就簡單的說明我們有銀碼的技術的推動電子簽贓法的三讀通過那第三方支付的帳號的查詢的平台也建立了個RPG的機制來阻詐那這個機制從112年到113年我們總共阻掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2098.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2120.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
阻止了60534件的詐騙網頁我們有提供政府端碼簡訊服務商業檢碼服務還有防詐鎖卡平台防詐鎖卡平台主要是針對遊戲點數的詐騙目前這個成效也是從過去一個月1600件左右下降到現在大概是100件左右再下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2122.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2148.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那另外一個重要工作是建構多元益子的安全的應變網路那這裡面有三個工作一個就是我們要建設海陸空應變網路這裡面包括掛中低軌衛星的服務那第二個是要提升網通傳網路的防護的能量那這裡面我們有在這個在我們的這個NCCSC的一個專案這個一個機構裡面我們有分享了143萬筆的治安情資 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2152.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2168.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我們也審查了投國的資通訊的設備有24款第三個工作是普及網路建設在11年到113年我們總共補助協助了15354座的5G基地台的部件涵蓋人口大概97.99%再下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2172.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2199.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
另外一個重要工作是我們要簽章規劃數位通傳資源確保符合公共利益這裡面包括第一個工作是規劃釋出次世代無限寬頻那這裡面我們有審查的已經審查了事件的這個衛星頻譜的申請案那還有一件正在審查中那第二個工作是我們要管理跟提升電信資源使用效益那剛剛有講過我們在偏鄉的人口涵蓋率目前通行涵蓋率超過95%以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2201.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2212.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
第三個是我們要促進網路網際網路健全發展那這個這個包括我們RPG剛剛有提過我們RPG主詐的裝置的機制已經阻止了60534件的詐騙的網頁再下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2218.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2239.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
在下一個重要工作是我們要調適我國的治安法規那這裡面包括我們在7月12號我們推動知痛安全管理法的修法在7月12號由立法院一度通過那這裡面重要的工作是我們要強化特定非公務機關的治安的要求跟擴大集合的範圍那下一個工作是我們要這個要定 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2240.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2241.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
在下一個工作是我們下頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2257.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2270.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我們要強化國家資安防護特別是要精進資安聯防機制跟關鍵基礎CI的治理作為我們發布了126萬筆的資安情質威脅也攔阻了1324萬的可疑的所謂的電子郵件當然這個也包括很多的這個資安事件的諮詢那我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2283.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2298.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
目前每個月攔阻對我們政府的網際網路跟所謂的關鍵基礎建設的資安的供給每個月超過13億次也就是說每天有超過我們每天要攔阻5000萬次左右的一個供給這個給各位參考下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2303.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2321.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那我們要發展治安的人力生態培養治安的人才那這個人才是一個很重要的一個我們要發展的目標那我們有治安的職人訓練預計要培養2000人次那我們會在設立治安的考科那會推廣一些教育的訓練然後發展職人的難途再下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2323.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2344.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我們要進行數位政府數位服務要讓這個要進行數位任性巡航健檢那這個我們在113年盤點的是三項的系統的背景的資訊總共執行了39項政府機關資訊系統數位巡航健檢那已經完成了所有39項的巡航工作在下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2345.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2373.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
在下一個題目就是我們要發展數位經濟那像是經濟裡面特別是我們要投普協作加強投資AI新創我們匡列了100億元的國發基金來預計來協助AI產業的發展那這裡面我們會搭配AI數位產業相關的輔導政策提供全方位的輔導體系推動AI及數位產業規模化及國際化的發展在下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2374.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2394.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那我們同時要推動產業AI化跟AI產業化的目標是要匯集人才技術產業能量發展AI智慧生態為主軸帶動產業從小企業從小為企業生技轉型創新經濟回應社會的要求並實現匯普科技的價值在下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2396.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2420.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
現在的中共說是我們要推動資安產業跟強化產業的資安的防護這裡面推動資安產業包括技術研發跟海外的擴銷那另外就是強化資安產業的防護特別是我們協助訂定了Semi-E187這是一個全球第一個半導體設備資安的標準那我們也做了29家這個資安的評級然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2424.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2425.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
進行113年也進行了370家治安的評級在下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2433.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2457.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
接下來的工作就是我們要落實AI人才的培育建設或是產業的發展基礎那我們人才在我們有就業金卡有600張已經發了600張就業金卡另外我們訓練各個產業業者所需要的AI人才跟數位轉型的人才我們就招募訓練了567個青年作為所謂的數位青年替代在下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2459.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2480.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
再來就是我們要促進資料的發展打造資料創新的金融生態那這裡面我們從open data我們已經有5萬筆的資料集讓民眾下載那我們也推動所謂的買data的服務然後能夠再提供有條件的在線上做護照的身換跟金融服務的線上申辦再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2483.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2498.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
在下一頁工作是我們要活化各自數據的應用建構數據公益創新生態主要工作是我們要開創數據共享的一個信任的環境促進社會公益利益及社會創新在下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2500.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2520.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
接下來我們要建立分散式數位信任的生態系。這裡面主要的目的是我們要打造一個能夠降低數位足跡的可信任的平正的生態。這裡面工作包括公司的協力、跨部位建設裡面包括推動所謂的數位皮夾公共建設計畫跟全球協作來推動這樣的一個數位生態系。 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2522.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2533.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
公民科技工作就是我們要打造一個數位信任的生態機的一個方法那這裡面有包括推動公共城市那辦理公民科技的試驗場域跟擴展我國國際的輸出 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2537.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2554.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
以上是我們的一些政策的一些目前的施政重點那關於預算的部分這邊再跟各位委員做個報告在113年的預算執行部分稅務部分113年預算執行到10月底累計分配預算數是25.41億元累計執行數是24.7億元執行率是97.21% |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2559.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2565.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
稅促的部分113年預算值截到10月底累積分配預算是16.97億元累積執行數是14.8億元執行率是87.21% |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2571.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2588.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
114年施政重點是為了落實建構輸任平權、任性永續、自由多元、創新成長的數位台灣的數位政策目標並扣合落實國家希望工程的五打七安、數位安全、創新經濟等尚未的政策藍圖以積極 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2590.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2603.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
強化打仗,強化數位韌性,發展數位經濟的數位三件為核心的施政重點,重新調適數位施政的框架,達到新力跟防弊的雙重效果。 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2606.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2615.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
114年預算編列情況以下報告稅務部分114年稅務編列是24.6億元較上年預算25.4億元減少了0.8億元約減少了3.19%主要是檢列各項頻率及電信號碼使用的會有的收入 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2624.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2642.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
稅促部分114年稅促編列33.33億元較上年度預算27.93億元增加5.4億元約增加19.3億%主要用在增略運用MOCN技術建置雲端合網提升行動寬頻行動網路韌性計畫有4.19億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2647.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2651.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
新增維運精進衛星緊急應變網證驗證計畫有1.6億元新增AI網路主動式防禦關鍵技術研究計畫有0.96億元檢驗數位創新關鍵基礎建設計畫有1.4億元最後一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2664.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2678.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
本部114年預算案系配合政府整體施政目標．秉持臨機預算精神．並衡量各項計畫輕重緩急．優先順序排列．信信可畏委員．鼎力支持謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2681.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2704.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
好 這個謝謝部長部長能不能這個剛剛報告的這個的部分啊針對於很多的業務的還有預算的那現在大家比較關心啊你們內部的一個管理的風格這個對於所有同仁啊員工啊是不是有一些這個不平等不公平還是誤會啊你這個部分要怎麼清查你能不能一併說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2707.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2718.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
主席還有各位委員那個我們在昨天已經啟動外部調查委員會那預計在12月11號以前會有調查報告那我們會秉公處理毋忘誤重該調動就調動該處理就處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2722.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2749.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
那不過我也這邊跟委員報告就是我們剛剛講我們每天要攔阻五千萬的網路供給我們是治安的一級戰區所以同仁的壓力也相當的大所以這次調動也讓我們了解我們可能要做內部的這些所謂的訓練包括領導統一的訓練還有溝通的訓練讓我們以後在工作之際上雖然有這麼大的壓力還能夠順利的進行不需要有這種霸凌或凌遲或是一種不合理的一種行為發生謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2752.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2752.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
議長鄭明忠 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2775.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2783.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
來報告一下如何清查你的市裡面的一些霸凌的一個情況還是清查到什麼階段來做個說明好不好現在這你的室內重要的業務嗎要不做個說明不是啊那個市長沒有辦法說明沒有我要你報告是10月20號 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2802.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2828.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
我們的行政院院長就鞠躬道歉為了勞發署的事件當場要求各部會進行全面的清查這件事情還是你們根本都任何什麼動作都沒有那沒關係如果10月20日到現在兩個禮拜我不是在講昨天的事啊這兩個禮拜你們各單位到清查的結果如何市長說明一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2838.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2838.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
請坐,大家都請坐,有難言之隱,這個可以自證清白的一個機會,你為什麼不用呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2854.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2870.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
好,那我們這個資安署署長我們一個是一個署啦齁,署長來說明一下齁,你們到目前為止這個針對於裡面院長交代的霸凌事件的一個清查目前我們在資安署裡面有什麼樣的作為? |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2884.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2895.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
報告委員其實專屬一直以來都有那個員工輔導但是專屬的確工作壓力很大所以我也整個清了一下專屬現在的員工就是整個從專屬成立以來到現在整個的離職率 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2900.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2914.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
那也跟委員報告我們總共有42個人其實其中有21個人是到民間那其他還有10個人他是其他回到原單位就是他原來的單位可能他的工作壓力沒有那麼大他比較能適應 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2915.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2920.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
我們現在數出來其他人是覺得有調到錢比較多雖然是平調可是那個單位的錢比較多或者是離家比較近他可以跟家人一起照顧他的孩子我們現在離職的原因大部分是這樣目前為止有大概四個八個 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2936.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2936.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2960.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2966.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
考試跟行政檢查因為資安署的人都必須經過特殊調查那經過這些調查之後他合格了嘛我就給聘書結果呢銀行馬上每個月加1萬就挖走所以一個禮拜內就挖走了所以我們是的確有還蠻艱鉅的 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2977.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3002.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
工作量跟蠻大的工作壓力那也外面很喜歡我們啊所以我們現在的動作是第一個想想看怎麼讓同仁的壓力稍微少一點那我當然也會真的努力看看可不可以去爭取資安的部分可以有一些比如說績效獎金啊或者是其他的加給可以讓他們願意從事資安的工作那當然我也會辦教育訓練那委員說的萬一 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3007.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3027.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
同仁壓力大那溝通上可能彼此的聲音有點大的話那這個部分剛剛部長講了我們必須要做員工的溝通的訓練那我們也會有長期因為我們也已經訂了那個霸凌的相關的頭就是投訴機構跟制度24小時接受同仁的 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3028.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3056.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
申請但是不是這一段時間的流行是之前我們就知道壓力很大所以我們一直就有員工的業批的相關的輔導那我們當然希望我們的工作環境是可以稍微不要壓力那麼大但自然是救災嗎有些時候真的是無法等就是時間來了事情來了我們就得做這一塊是兩難也請各位委員能夠盡量支持我們可以訓練員工然後可以有比較好的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3057.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3083.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
爭取更多的人跟所有人的那個加級可以請委員再支持。謝謝委員。好的。署長至少願意上來講。我覺得是真的不錯啦。不過不要一直講訓練員工。員工要訓練了。就是霸凌事件通常是有權利的這一方好不好。就主管怎麼樣去主管的這個部分我覺得你們要去關注啦。順市長要不要上來說明一下。不用齁。好。我想這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3086.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3105.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
處長嘛齁我最後一個問題了齁因為待會所有的委員大概訊息我幫你問一下齁那個還是署長12月底之前那你們這個人事處去做了什麼霸凌的調查嗎目前有沒有就在那邊講就好了都清查好了嗎齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3112.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3120.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
在這個環境因為我們還是必須要處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3125.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3149.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
有些工作資安的議題我還是必須立刻處理所以不能就是不會因為有壓力就不處理但是我會希望能夠比如說爭取一些比較好的人力或者是相關的預算資源來讓大家減緩這個但人事處的確是我們自己有啟動然後人事處也啟動而且我們也有訂了條款讓大家投訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3149.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3163.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
謝謝署長那最後人事處你都站這麼久了說明一下你舉例說明你目前調查的結果以我們治安署跟我們的任性司你調查的一個員工的普查有沒有發現任何的一些問題請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3171.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3187.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
跟張偉報告那就真的這個部分我們一接到那個通報我們就成立那個專業小組進行相關的這個跟那個張偉報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3189.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3204.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
就是行政院有交代的我們第一個我們就是去修改這個規定讓這個我們本部的那個職場霸凌的規定更完整跟各部會是一樣的這個做法所以你之前做了什麼調查嗎你看署長多棒啊人情都做給你啊你之前做什麼調查沒有調查還有結果啦因為11月20號 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3216.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3238.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
11月20日院長震怒局工道歉總統也道歉這樣還不夠嗎要求各部會清查清查到現在昨天發生另外一個事件之前至少12天的時間那你說你是主管單位我就講說你針對於這些事這些數你在清查的過程中沒有這個能力能夠事前假設發現有些問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3240.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3267.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
所以之前還沒有昨天有報告記者會出來你才開始啟動嗎我們針對有那個確實的這個情形我們都會立即邀請外部的這個學者專家包括法律跟心理諮商的進行相關的這個調查所以你們自己沒有內部發現問題的一個能力好請坐好 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3270.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3278.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
接下來我們先確認一下議事錄對今天議事錄有沒有意見沒有意見議事錄確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3280.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3301.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
接下來我們進行合併的詢答先宣告以下事項第一詢答時間出席委員6加2分鐘列席委員4加1分鐘第二委員發言登記於10點30分截止本委員會除外第三各委員會如有臨時提案請於10點前提出以便議事人員會診 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3302.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3311.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
第四暫定10點30分休息10分鐘第五中午原則上不休息現在我們就有請登記第一位林佩祥委員發言有請黃部長好黃部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3333.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3362.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
委員長在你這份報告這個預算收支預算報告的第3頁有講到一句話就是說這個提升整體通訊網路韌性裡面包括保障國民之數位人權那我想請問一下最基本的網路上的禮儀算不算數位人權啊網路上的禮儀啊就是說你寫的字啊用這個用詞用字是不是應該算是算是人權的一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3363.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3366.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
你覺得這樣算不算霸凌你覺得這樣算不算霸凌 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3391.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3418.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
部長請你聽到這句話如果你是我的下屬你會不會覺得像霸凌這是網路上喔因為我們知道網路上驚嘆號表示很氣憤才會用驚嘆號你覺得算不算網路霸凌就是這個剛剛有講過像這種情緒的這是一個長官因為我們是如果有一天如果您是用這種語氣混蛋加驚嘆號直接命令你下面的下屬 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3419.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3435.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
他們感受就是這樣喔這是不是所以我們這樣我說我看到這個保障國民數位人權的時候我就很好奇說那我們的數發部有沒有把我們的基層工作人員當作一般的勞工還是說我們數發部的基層工作人員就沒有所謂的數位人權嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3437.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3465.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
當然委員這個就是我剛剛講說我們在這個事前我們在做進步調查那調查結果很快就會出來那我們會採取適當措施沒有錯就是我剛剛講說工作壓力下情況工作壓力很大情況下也不能夠對在情緒上做任何的這個發洩所以這個的訓練中所以我剛剛特別強調我也跟我的同仁講我們要有那個那我想請問一下這邊有個關鍵的東西我因為我知道這個報告的時候我想請問一下什麼叫打岔啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3466.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3467.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
請問打X什麼意思?您知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3482.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3502.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
這是你們部裡面發生的事情你是最高主管你也知道以企業來講一向都最高主管完全完全掌控完全負責對吧我原理的資訊我都完全了解那那個您的這個是那請問什麼是打叉您是我的資訊完全了解那請問什麼是打叉打叉是什麼直接扣烤雞嗎是不是這個這個是不是直接一烤雞來做威脅 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3503.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3523.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
請部長回答yes or no還是我不知道 or I don't know這個就是我剛剛講就是說需要內部給我調查報告其實那個很多的那個剛剛講就是我還是回到那個原則就是徐署長請問您知道這個狀況嗎請問您知道打叉是什麼意思嗎打叉動不動一個叉兩個叉三個叉五燈獎啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3525.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3541.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
請問打叉什麼意思?是考級直接降一級嗎?還是一個什麼懲處之類的嗎?你有掌握這個狀況嗎?趙偉跟委員報告齁那個部分我們會列入專案小組的那個調查我們等於雙方的這個當事人都甚至是說我也很好奇啦齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3542.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3558.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
週末例假各科都有事然後科長48個小時沒宵沒席再打一個叉那想請問一下基層公務人員有沒有勞基法的保障啊那基層公務人員48小時待命週末48小時待命會不會違反勞基法啊沒宵沒席就要打叉沒宵沒席就要考基屬問是不是?額市處處長請問你知道這狀況嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3571.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3591.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
就這個部分我們會利用專案小組調查你們千萬不要給我寫個什麼利益良善的東西出來喔不好不會你們千萬不要寫個利益良善的東西出來喔謝謝委員提醒不然話說真的不是只有我今天會看到會生氣喔所有人都會生氣喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3593.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3615.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
我這是很在議事廳在議事殿堂裡面直接質詢每一個都有每一個都有逐字稿的記錄那這件事情不能就這樣了之是如果這邊跟我講說數位人權四個字數位人權四個字然後我們基層公務員都不被尊重基層公務員最基本的網路用詞這種混蛋打岔胡搞 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3617.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3638.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
那我還不知道說我們這個數發部連最基本的數位人權說我們要保障國民的數位人權還要打詐我不知道這個該怎麼講我不知道這該從何講起所以我認為部長您現在就是想法就因為我從資安署到這邊一路看過來四個字關關相互啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3639.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3665.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
周委已經很客氣特地把這件事情讓你們這種主促長出來講可是你們現在給我的態度就是沒關係我們等調查委員報告出來之後我們再想辦法大事化小小事化我們偷過去對吧不會大事小小事化我們不會嗎不會不會這邊講的話大家全部人都看著喔全部媒體都在看著喔對我知道就是我們根據調查報告我們會做適當的處理那如果你是主管你是現在最高主管你認為你該不該道歉發生這麼大風波應不應該道歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3665.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3693.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
我為我所有同仁道歉是應該道歉因為這個確實是我督導不周讓他發生這樣的事情但是我也講說這個事情本身我們先調查報告我們還是等調查報告出來再做適當的補充部長至少你肯說為你的同仁黨來說出道歉這點我給你肯定因為很多人是不願意道歉我特別跟同仁講就是說我們部的工作很重但是我們要有愛的教育鐵的紀律鐵的紀律還是要有再來其實部長我還有另外一個議題也是很重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3694.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3723.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
其實這個跟你比較無關啦其實這個案子現在這個案子跟上個案子其實跟你都是你是主管所以你要完全負責包括111現在已經老實講這是唐鳳部長留下來的東西可是我覺得這比較像是一個自我自嗨的這個所謂的Safe Guard自己保護自己有自我感覺良好的Safe Guard111防詐號碼知道吧那其實老實講媒體上面報的很大我們花了1200萬但是實質上我們有沒有保護到我們直接的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3725.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3742.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
這個是因為剛才講那個假冒的基地戰那個是對2G的這個對可是部長這就是尷尬的地方如果大家寧願用2G就可以破解幾十萬不到五十萬的設備就可以破解我們剛開始初期1200萬所以說他是直接去跟所謂的末端使用者直接去touch |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3751.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3762.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
變成是說我們隨時隨地只要有一台50萬左右的機器我們只要一個犯罪集團隨便到鬧區掃一掃就可能掃到這些這些釣魚檢訊就繼續發送不然我們111的檢訊之外而且這111的檢訊還是我們國家花大錢去官方認證的有效檢訊他們不是這個沒有錯111防詐平台沒有被破解 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3776.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3804.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
但是他們直接略過防炸平台假冒成111這一樣嚴重啊對那個所以就是說這個有幾個做法一個就是說我們當然有那個本來就通訊檢查就會去偵測這種訊號所以是抓到人但是另外一點就是說這個建議訊裡面都有些網址特別要強調如果不是點gov.tw這種網址千萬不要點所以就是說有雙重防護一種是11一種是因為這個案子其實已經發生像這樣的案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3804.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3805.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
所以這個有防護的措施我們現在加強防護沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3821.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3850.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
其實我們前我諮詢過的時候你也跟我提過我們正在做是所謂的零信任網路零信任網路解決方案那我想知道說到目前為止這零信任網路解決方案目前進度是怎麼樣我們現在已經有這個預計年底會有大概47個A級機關都會導入零信任網路所以當然我們會逐步的擴充但是這個零信任網路是很重要的一個防護的措施我們是極力推動那希望當然就資安法通過之後我們能夠加強對不管是CI或者是地方政府也推動零信任網路 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3850.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3851.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
接下來有請林國成委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3886.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3889.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
好謝謝召委請黃部長黃部長好來部長早委員好我從來沒有看到我們沛翔委員這麼生氣的嚇我一跳這個最主要我特別要提醒當部長的人當長官的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3915.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3941.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
一定要特別去注意任何事情尊重三分如果你不尊重整個文官體制那文官體制雖承受不了他就會認知為霸凌那我今天特別要來請教我們部長也就是在11月29號 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3944.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3955.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
第19屆資安機能金頓獎致詞的時候你特別提到說每一年你我們貴單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3959.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3981.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
要任用五千個人所以這個你聽我講完我這裡必須要提醒施政不能靠口號不能隨便亂開支票人家說太不正啊還正好歪所以你會開這種空頭支票那底下的人有用 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3986.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4007.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
所以才會造成現在賴總統卓院長都跟全國人民來道歉這個霸凌的問題當然是整個這種緩緩相扣所以柏林來你11月29號有沒有講你要任用資安人員在貴部 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4008.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4034.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
議員８ |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4034.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4049.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
因為部長你要知道我真尊敬他 故意人不能亂講話所以我坦白講 你看連你到外面支持我們都非常注意你可以去發現到 立法委員不是縮架 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4050.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4069.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
議員８ |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4070.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4099.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
由其主管數位所有產花、發展的跟監督的業務的情況之下一個所長講出來的話是涵蓋整個部裡面所有的政策所以這個要特別因為如果是誤解那也就誤解連我就覺得不可能做到的啊因為一年我們治安所有的學生畢業也只不過是一萬七千人你們就可以網羅五千個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4100.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4111.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
這些是有所出入的所以我希望部長這個以後在外面的政策當然要謹言慎行不要讓人家產生這個誤解那就不好嘛其實我坦白跟你講我上一次對整個你們兩署的東西也就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4126.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4152.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
低薪福利差加班費砍掉這個我是不以為然的那在這個部分我必須要去提醒到現在你們都沒有去解釋為什麼為什麼所以你們可以看113年跟114年拜託你們的加班費兩項獎金也好加班費也好都是遞減加班費遞減27%那獎金 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4158.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4176.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
這個部分我還是要提醒部長對我們公務人員也不要那麼刻薄但是他有一定的加班跟一定的這些獎金的制度所以部長你特別特別要提醒一下要注意這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4180.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4194.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
我現在又要講霸凌的事我請問一下我們論信管理還有我們資安署有你主管這些你們到底現在調查到什麼程度 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4196.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4221.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
我們啟動調查以後就外部專家委員包括心理諮商室跟律師那這個報告會在12月11號以前出來那我們會根據這個報告的結果做立即處置這個是我們目前在進行中好啦 伯弟我跟你講現在花生中央部會確確實實有很多部會啦那當然我們也是民內在內啦所以我還是要提醒部長真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4223.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4250.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
關了殺人是非常重要不信事情不要再發生因為我一向都非常尊敬你是從業界來你是一個看起來就是溫溫如牙我希望這個事情除了你的政策管好你這些人員還是要去管好好不好好那我現在就特別要跟來那個那個我們那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4252.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4257.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
主席處處長來上來協助一下來好來主席處長部長你也要在啊因為我執行是執行你來我在想齁三年來 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4274.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4298.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
我們徵購機房徵購機房這裡面就包括在一般行政資訊管理跟設備投資編列總共的預算4000多萬然後連續三年加起來7600萬也就是購置機房我真的很納悶 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4299.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4323.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
你這個機房每一年購置你到底目的何在?你是在養黃金喔?還是在挖礦?現在很流行挖礦是不是把這個機房全部擺在那裡挖礦你知道嗎?部長挖礦就是說機房很多就要挖挖挖挖挖挖不然你們為什麼連續三年7600萬都是在購置機房來部長你說一下那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4330.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4333.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
這我要請那個我們主席處長來好來處長你說明為什麼報告委員齁那 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4338.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4362.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
司法部的資訊他是一部兩署是共用的他並不會在部裡面不是我講的是我講的是購置機房啦其他的部分不要講為什麼會這樣啊因為機房是等於三個機關共用一個機房所以他必須比較大一點那因為現在我們的系統也蠻多需要做整合包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4363.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4378.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
對外面的所以必須就是會陸續來徵購這個機房這個機房你每年都購買機房那這個購買機房你們現在是都是用租的嘛那為什麼人員有成長這麼大嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4379.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4408.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
我跟你講部長我坦白跟你講你也編列預算也不會這麼細啦我希望本席提出來的問題你們好好解釋因為我看出來就是不正常就是不是在我養網金就是在挖礦啊不然你們也每一年為什麼都要編幾千萬去購置這種機房所以這個部分部長你要把它當成一回事你不要到時候我把這些預算全部刪了你不能怪我因為我是理性問政 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4409.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4428.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
該給的我一定給但是你像現在處長所講的這樣我是不能接受的你要好好的去把它列出來為什麼連續三年連續三年甚至於你把那個相片都照來我認為是一個事實是有必要那當然我們要支持啊我們一向我坦白跟你講 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4429.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4457.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
現在的立法委員他是非常理性的啦該給的一定給啦不該給的一定刪啦所以這一點我希望部長能夠了解一下還有來那個處長我再請問一下另外支通安全的防疫計畫還有潤性強化計畫以及數位資深生態防護推動總共編 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4459.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4487.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
一億兩千萬請問一下啊這個項目都不是一樣嗎啊為什麼要編都同同樣是這樣啊然後編編這個預算所以處長你也不要跟我答覆那為什麼會這樣你也不要答覆實體下你來解釋我認為有理由那沒話講但是這個整個部分在我們翻這些資料你們都不寫清楚啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4488.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4488.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
還有最後一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4509.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4522.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
最後一個系統開花業務都不變喔 處長 業務不變喔 部長但是為何增加今年增加149萬7千塊為什麼你的系統開花業務為什麼 處長 為什麼這個是資訊處處長簡單回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4536.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4563.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
跟委員報告就是因為我們的公用系統是向上集中到我們部會來那我們的這些公用系統包含官網、EIP跟供應系統這些功能的話就是每年要做一些功能的徵修對所以會有一些系統開發好我要拜託齁銀端黃火軟體這不是買過了嗎去年不是買過了為什麼一買再買呢為什麼為什麼那個是每年的收權費 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4566.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4588.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
現在原端大概都是採一年授權一次所以每年都要採每年授權好那個系統開發增加的部分我也希望你們講清楚該有理由的我們不絕對支持但是沒有理由的部長請原諒我們該砍的一定砍這是本黨已經很清楚的告訴所有只要 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4589.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4590.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
接下來請李昆哲委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4625.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4651.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
謝謝昭偉請一下黃部長黃部長治安署謝署長謝署長產業署林代理署長來林代理署長部長我剛才聽了一下治安署啊謝署長在備詢台上面有說明治安署啊他認為的確是工作壓力很大那從治安署成立到現在啊謝署長說大概有42個人離職 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4653.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4667.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
其中有21個人是到民間公司還有10個人回到工作壓力沒有那麼大的原單位那其他的人因為薪資的問題或是離家比較近的問題選擇平調 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4671.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4697.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
所以現在離職謝署長認為說只有8個人是覺得工作壓力太大不適應治安署所以請調到別的單位所以整個離職率謝署長說以不適應來說大概只有0.4%那我請問一下部長你認為治安署這個離職率到底是多少來說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4699.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4726.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
我這邊拿到的數字就大概就是以今年來講大概有24個人離職那但是比例上來講就是剛剛講就是中間有很多原因有在剛剛就是署長解釋的那當然我還是認為說這個這裡面因為治安署的工作真的是過重然後這個那個怎麼樣去調配人力跟未來部長離職率就是以42個人來做計算啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4727.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4749.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
您們說只有8個人是因為工作壓力的問題所以來離開或者是請掉這樣是粉飾太平這是第一第二我看這個產業署跟治安署相關的這個離職狀況其實我有初步的去了解相關的離職率的問題那其實我一開始看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4750.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4772.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
資安署跟產業署提供給我的資料看來這個工作狀況還算穩定但是我仔細的再去看相關的資料我就覺得不對因為如果用離職率跟離職人數來回推我看產業署跟資安署的在職人數應該是在300人以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4773.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4793.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
但是我看你們的預算原額卻只有150至165之間部長這又是粉飾太平為了說離職率要好看一點所以把這個原額從150把它擴大這個分母成為300以上來說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4796.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4823.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
報告委員這個我看的不是那個number我看的是離子人數所以我剛剛特別講說我看的是人數所以他那個離子率的計算這個我覺得這個計算是的確是一個問號不過我重要看的是剛剛每個數的離子人數大概是有兩種計算的公式一種是期末的載子人數加上期間的離子人數或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4824.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4847.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
其初在職人數加上期末在職人數除以二這應該是一個基本的功能不過部長我已經講得很明白了從治安署謝署長剛才所說明的42個人的離職他只用8個人來作為一個計算的基礎這是不對的這是欺騙社會大眾我認為不可取 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4848.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4868.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
第二相關的數位署還有資安署相關的離職率的這個計算也是粉飾太平這個你要嚴加的督促了好那我們現在來回到相關的這個推動本土繁體中文AI模型這個議題來請教一下這個部長就是說我們現在的 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4874.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4898.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
該案關的中文模型基本上是以英文加上簡體中文來作為一個計算的一個基礎那對於我們繁體中文來說相關的環境數據模型相關的產業的政策以及科技的發展區域的合作以及相關的對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4900.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4905.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4919.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4943.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
報告委員對於這個資料的應用的部分我們過往有那個開放資料的一個處理所以在過往10年來講我們開放資料總有5萬多筆那依據我們做台德的訓練來講它其實有三分之一的這個資料量大概是使用開放資料那這個部分我們當然會持續努力那再來就是擴充的部分我們近期有人會找相關的部會就中文語料的部分來對於這個資格財產權 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4945.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4948.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
市長,我要簡單的來詢問你們因為推動本土繁體中文AI模型是一個很重要未來科技發展的一個重要基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4962.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4986.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
我們必須要降低對於外國技術或服務的依賴要強化我們自己臺灣本土的實力推動發展跟普及我看我們TWNIC就是臺灣網路資訊中心2024的臺灣網路報告雖然使用CHAP GPT的人口逐漸增加但是使用者比例大概集中於40歲以下 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4987.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5013.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲獲 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5013.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5039.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
是推動本土繁體中文AI模型的一大優勢也是國際合作的一個亮點那這對於提升我們的國家自主性跟國家競爭力也是一個重要的方向那台灣在語言文化的自主性數據安全的方面如果沒有做好這個AI繁體中文的這樣的一個重要的基礎的話我們會喪失主導權 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5042.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5068.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
另外我看南韓南韓有成立這個市中學堂的改革方案部長應該知道了他們建置AI的i市中學堂的一個平台作為推廣韓語的一個前哨站他們在世界各地設立伺服器讓學員能夠更方便學習韓語那我們數話部何時會跟進 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5072.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5096.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
我們對本國的技術有沒有信心來保證你講一下那我們有自己訓練的模型那至於說這個教育的推廣這一部分我們會會去看看怎麼去最後跟其他部會共同合作這是一個重要的未來的建制的方向沒錯那另外我們也要滿足我們在地的模型在地的需求來促進數位的平等因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5097.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5118.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
本土AI模型我認為它不只是技術的議題更是文化保存的一個問題本土的AI模型它更能掌握我們台灣特有的這樣一個社會文化的背景而且對於語言障礙的群體教育程度較低及高齡人口來說是特別重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5120.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5133.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
國際AI大廠這些巨頭他們的AI模型他們是有強大的技術能力但是他們對於這些語言文化的掌握還是不足對於繁體中文的這個環境還是不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5135.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5150.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
我們的本土自己AI模型能夠深入的去捕捉這一些語言的細節然後能夠解決在國際工具使用中因為識別錯誤或表達不準的這一些問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5151.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5171.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
部長你有注意到這些嗎所以才說我們要推動主權的AI我們要有自己的AI的model跟自己的那個那我們用現在已經在跟我們有跟國科會在合作在訓練像台德的一些模型的訓練那希望有些本土的話就是回應剛剛委員的那個部長另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5172.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5189.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
像這種AI的模型他很重要就是AI的語言助理他能夠進一步強化對母語對方言的一些理解那也能夠為高齡者語言障礙的群體或是偏鄉居民來提供便利 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5191.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5218.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
我們數位部有沒有類似的AI的這種助理工具有沒有去朝這個方面去推動來保定你講一下我們有那個一些平台的設像AIBOT像這樣的計畫在進行希望提供一些工具給政府部門使用以外也給民眾使用那這個有在規劃中保定你對推動這一些AI的本土模型你有沒有什麼具體的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5220.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5240.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
我們是希望短期、中期、長期你們有一個具體的目標我一個簡單的建議短期的目標一至兩年要建立本土繁體中文的語料庫然後開發針對特定領域的AI模型的原型然後推出分眾的AI素養課程 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5241.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5256.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
那中期目標3至5年要建立具有國際競爭力的本土AI模型然後要形成完整的AI人才的培育體系建立AI的倫理治理的一個框架長期目標5至10年 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5257.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5280.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
要成為華語AI技術的全球標竿然後輸出台灣AI技術跟治理的相關的經驗然後還要建立具有國際影響力的AI生態系統針對我的建議來部長說明一下你的意見跟看法委員建議很好那我們在把我們這個未來推動的政策跟那個計畫看能不能朝這個目標來努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5282.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5310.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
這個部長要全力的督促數位部從成立到現在從之前的唐鳳部長到現在的黃部長其實我都跟你們有討論過相關的數位部相關的文官的體系行政的程序內部的文化的建立因為數位部是新成立的一個部會他從各部會調集人馬到 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5312.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5336.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
這個數位部來成立那唐部長是非常有創意的人但是他對行政體系文官體系不是那麼理解那黃部長也來自產業民間所以你相關的行政體系的建立內部文化尊重公務員尊重專業建立效率的這樣的一個未來的數位產業一個重要的部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5337.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5337.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
謝謝李委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5368.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5370.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
接下來請陳淑月召委發言謝謝主席請主席要請黃部長還有資安署署長謝署長委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5392.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5419.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
部長早安現在是一個科技的時代網路的時代所以我們也知道現在的消費習慣已經很習慣很多人尤其是年輕的族群都很習慣用這個電子支付了那我們看一下就是說這個根據統計目前就是說有幾個這個就是電子支付的包括接口支付還有一卡通全支付全音配 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5419.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5439.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
議員８ |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5439.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5455.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
議員８ |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5455.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5480.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
未來這個使用的人應該也會越來越多照這個趨勢來說很多可是我們現在也發現就是說這樣子的一個網路的就是電子支付的一個使用習慣如果說在被駭客入侵或者是各自外洩的時候可能也會面臨很大的一個威脅危險那因為我們看到其實在 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5481.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5501.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
議員． |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5501.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5501.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
﹚立法院第11屆第12會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5517.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5532.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
那本席在最近就接到了兩個個案就是最近才發生的在上個禮拜跟昨天上個禮拜接到一個個案他的狀況就是陳情民眾他來陳情就是說他在17號禮拜天的時候他發現說他的LiPay少了15000元然後他就在 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5540.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5565.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
就趕快去查就是用他的手機去查因為他目前就是他的帳戶銀行帳戶是蠻多的然後他有行動銀行的其實只有兩家就是新光銀行跟新展銀行然後其中新光銀行有綁這個LiPay跟接口支付然後他去就是說透過那個客服就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5566.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5574.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5591.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5592.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5609.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5627.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
被轉了81十一萬那他後來他禮拜一又趕快去林桂去查詢他相關的一些銀行他發現說他的合作金庫也被轉出了二十萬聯邦銀行也被轉出二十萬那富邦銀行也被轉了二十萬中國的銀行也被轉出十八萬多 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5629.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5644.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
就是說然後他後來在21號的時候他去分局我們地方警察局分局做筆錄的時候做筆錄的當下他又接到新展銀行打電話去跟他確認說他是不是有在申請網路貸款 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5646.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5664.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
所以這個是這個個案的整個過程那昨天又有一個民眾陳秦他的合作金庫的帳戶也是短短的一天的時間就轉出了28筆然後每一筆就是7000多就是固定的金額就是7030就是28 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5667.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5685.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5685.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5713.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
他被轉出去的帳戶是轉到他自己已經很久沒有用的其中一個銀行就是台新銀行他說他從104年那時候他餘額已經只剩100多塊所以他也沒結清就放到現在結果他的新光銀行的錢是被轉到台新銀行去然後再從台新銀行轉到接口支付全銀配台新配就是這樣轉出去然後錢就不見了 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5715.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5742.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
他這個個案有幾個問題一點就是說他只申請了LiPay跟接口支付可是歹徒竟然可以幫他申請了全支付、全銀Pay、支付寶還有這個台灣Pay、Google Pay等等所以在這個部分是不是我們在這個整個這個治安上我們要怎樣去防堵啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5744.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5765.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
報告委員這個通常的問題是帳號密碼被偷了是那帳號密碼被偷所以現在講就是說像我個人也是一樣現在一定要用多因子認證就是說我轉帳或是銀行的存一定要經過多因子就是說可能要送再確認不管是用生物辨識或者是用那個所謂的這個簡訊再確認你要輸進一個簡訊的密碼才能轉帳這個一定要捨不然的話現在帳號密碼它這個問題它這個過程還有一個問題就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5773.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5794.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
可能歹徒在申請他的什麼就是電子支付的時候可能有驗證碼可是驗證碼也被歹徒攔截了所以驗證碼就是通常會收到你個人的手機號碼對他就是收不到結果他發現他說他事後發現他的手機的許多功能都被設定成關閉所以這等於是歹徒可以隔空操作他的手機 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5795.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5808.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
對所以驗證嘛就說剛剛講就說這個可能最好還是用生物辨識就是說你那個指紋跟臉部辨識是最理想說多因之症裡面生物特徵是最最安全那再來才是簡訊不過 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5810.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5835.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
的確沒錯,就是說現在載圖要偷這個帳號密碼的管道還蠻多的包括下載APP包括在有時候是這個網路這個比如說這個公司的這個被這個資安做得不好會被入侵這個都所以現在都不能想就是說還是要回復到自己就是說這個可能我們在很多方面可能要教育民眾就是在這個方面一定要用一些比較安全的方式來做多因子認證來讓自己的 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5837.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5837.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
對,所以就是說在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5853.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5882.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
﹏﹏ |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5882.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5908.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
議員８ |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5908.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5929.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
好那就是包括說這個民眾他反映說其實他很多銀行都都是約定就是不轉帳就是沒有轉帳功能的然後都被開通了所以我覺得這樣子的狀況真的是讓民眾覺得會非常的擔憂還有包括就是說冒名就是貸款因為他沒有辦貸款 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5931.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5948.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
還好這個信財銀行有打去確認打電話給本人確認不然的話他也可能會莫名其妙就背負了這個債務也都不知道了那接下來本期要就是關心的就是說因為這個就是涉及到這個治安的一個問題那我們看到明年114年度的預算裡面我們在預算科目民主網路之連結與創新 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5957.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5981.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
這個科目下的數位創新關鍵基礎建設計畫總經費是7.8億就是分4年執行那在今年度就是已經有編列了3億3年3億多然後明年度是1.9億這個部分主要就是要執行這個所謂的數位皮夾就是分散式數位身份證證與授權系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5983.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6004.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
那這個就是那不是剛剛講的那個案子那兩個這個個案我就是聯想到這個我們要執行這樣的計畫未來就是說我們如果說來實施這個數位皮夾那我們把我們的資料就是說都放在這個數位皮夾裡面那萬一被害了那怎麼辦那不是非常的 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6005.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6029.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
就是剛剛有委員講說我們數位皮夾第一個機制就是看起來你可能要用生物辨識才能進入這個皮夾就是說這裡面的資料都是經過加密而且經過蠻完整的像PKI的加密但是你要拿到這個私鑰你一定要有這個要有個機制不是只有不是只有這個password不是只有那個ID跟password是應該會建議說你會有一些所謂的指紋或臉相辨識 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6030.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6044.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
那這樣的話就可以保護就算你的資料被拿走因為他沒辦法破密所以他也沒辦法拿到裡面的一些認證那這個是我們在推的時候我們會特別注意就是說怎麼去保護在數位評價裡面的資料的安全這是一個很重要的一個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6045.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6046.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
數位皮夾與數位身分證有什麼區別? |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6061.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6062.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
數位評價經過好幾層的加密加上生物辨識它的安全性會高很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6081.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6107.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
所以這個單這個技術面就是因為過去這幾年技術也在研發也在研進所以這時候因為很多國家已經在退數位皮夾所以我們也是參考國際的一些標準然後希望這個東西將來是變也就是希望將來身分證、健保卡等等卡片可以駕照都可以在你的手機裡面所以就不用帶那麼多證件去辦任何手續啊這個單是一個目標這個計畫的目的在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6108.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6133.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
好,我們知道科技在進步那歹徒作案的說法是真的是與時俱進所以我們也要非常慎重的去就是說包括這些計畫的執行或者是剛剛本席提的那兩個個案是不是也可以數位部這邊能夠進一步的瞭解然後發現哪些部分是漏洞然後我們要想辦法跟他防堵確保民眾的這個財產的一個安全這樣好謝謝委員經理謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6139.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6141.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
接下來有請林俊倩委員發言謝謝主席本時邀請我們數話部黃部長黃部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6172.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6200.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
委員好部長好部長這個就是我們這個111的簡訊之前有媒體有報導是否被破功其實是詐騙我們應該是沒有被突破系統沒有但是呢有這種111的假訊息那這個事情媒體報導以後那民眾對111的公信力信任度一定會降低 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6202.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6207.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
那我請教那現在案子有沒有破啊我現在收到111的簡訊我可以點進去嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6210.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6230.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
這個案子本身是被破壞的歹徒都被逮到了而且他用的設備是大陸的設備那所以我們這個第一個就是我們以後對這種設備要做嚴加管理所以以後不會有啦那我現在收到1111可以點進去嗎報告委員我現在是講說一本收到11簡訊你要看那個簡訊因為簡訊都會有個連結 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6232.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6242.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
那個連結一定是一個legal就是合法的一個連結比如說gov.tw所以在點進去以前還是要看一下我看那個連結何必一一一一 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6244.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6267.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
政府設立這樣11的簡訊就是方便民眾辨識嘛對辨識以後但是你一般老人哪看得懂什麼現在先會點gov哪看得懂對就是就是這個單是多重第一個我們那你不是走回頭路對沒有報告委員就是說以前就是因為連結很難辨識所以呢政府就用個11看到11你就放心點進去不會是詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6268.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6287.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
對,那以後齁,以後這個我們剛剛講的就是我們會有網路詐騙通報查詢網,也許以後民眾再看到這個一一簡訊再要去...那現在看到一一可以填進去行不行啊?現在這個目前應該是...我覺得很慘欸政府推一一花多少錢?我覺得那個預算好像一千多萬啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6288.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6290.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
所以手機如果有2G功能的要把它關掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6317.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6340.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
有沒有抓到那個詐騙局長,聘請他當顧問,你剛剛問他什麼東西你沒有辦法騙過去,給他趕趕啦,請他教我們好不好,要不然你發明一個新東西花那麼多錢,他買一個報復這個幾乎不用錢啦,二局的那個機率台現在幾乎是要報復的東西啦,他拿進來可以改那個電話號碼,就把它改成111就騙了嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6341.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6369.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
通常是10年前的手機才會有2G的功能啦所以我想這個因為現在台灣是沒有2G網路也沒有2G手機了啦那他拿2G的基地台進來什麼狀況下可以入侵可以騙到我們的因為現在我們是4G、5G網路嘛對 如果你的手機有2G的接收功能你會收到這個簡訊但是現在絕大部分手機這剛剛講就10年前手機也許有2G功能現在新的手機絕對沒有2G功能所以你新買的手機那如果網路不穩定的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6370.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6393.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
他這樣傳也是可能侵入喔因為那個剛剛講這個這種是單方向的認證以後從3G以後都是雙向認證也就是說那個基地站跟手機會做出會有一個協議嘛他們就會互相認證這個方法在3G以後的手機是沒有用的就2G還有嘛那2G現在台灣有多少用戶啊就有這種手機要多少差不多知不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6396.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6423.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
你的意思是說你手裡拿的是很舊式的手機或是有2G功能才可能被這種騙嗎?是不是這樣?所以潛在的受害者多少?如果今天買的手機是最近才買的或是這一兩年才買的你就不用擔心?就不用擔心那你要跟民眾說明清楚啊所以我剛問你第一個問題你是身為部長你也不太敢回答我問你看到111的訊息能不能點進去? |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6424.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6427.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
你如果說叫民眾在點進去以前再看一下連結 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6439.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6439.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6459.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6483.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
議員８ |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6484.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6491.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
就手機的就還有2G接收功能的手機他才會丟進去他會接到嘛聽說他騙了三百多萬啊這樣也會結合耶那一台比較多啊一台聽說我們把他報廢了我跟他一台機一台搞不好幾乎是不用錢的 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6500.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6528.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
那還是會有吧那市面上現在要再販售新的附帶二級手機的應該是這個現在二級手機應該是沒有了這個你要跟NCC去了解一下要不然你一一一一整體信用崩盤那怎麼辦因為你有很多政策你有很多部會現在還每天在傳 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6530.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6532.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
所以現在11還可以用啦? |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6558.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6559.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
新版的手機根本不會放2G的功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6585.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6611.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
如果像我這種新的手機沒有辦法接受2G的訊息他就收不到這種簡訊嗎?是這樣嗎?對你確定嗎?確定那114還可以用喔?一旦都可以用基本上可以用喔?可以可以如果新手機沒問題我覺得這個要趕快發布會去解決了要不然你花這麼多錢用了這麼大力宣傳的東西如果公信力崩盤你一拆又重來 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6613.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6636.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
因為今天委員在關心數位發展部發生那個霸凌事件這事情真相你們要去調查嘛那部長也答覆說啊數位發展部職場霸凌防治及處理作業要點你會依據這個來做規定嗎對你這個要點在哪裡啊要點在你根本沒有這個要點你也不會說啦人事處說明你這個要點你有這個要點嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6644.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6672.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
報告委跟委員有在哪邊網路上找不到各部位都有就你們事務部沒有有我們有跟委員報告我們是今年11月28修訂今年多少今年11月28自訂還是修訂那個修訂所以之前就有了有那你看你什麼地方還不認識等一下借我看一下好OK我們等另外喔謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6674.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6701.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
你數位發展部其實各部都有一個反霸凌預算我不曉得大家你數位發展部沒有編列你知不知道反霸凌預算因為這種反霸凌其實不是現在才發生以前都有所以他很多單位都有反霸凌的甚至還有課程他還有一定的預算你要去執行要去教育只有你數位發展部沒有因為你說過你要設立一個申訴調查小組 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6703.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6719.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
對不對他是無極職啦但是他你要寫報告書還要出席費用等等喔各部會幾乎都有只有你數位發展部沒有啦但你有在單位有啦放在一般行政裡面這個預算你也瞭不講啦你那個說明欄就沒有啦我現在查起來喔你像那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6726.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6752.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
資安署有啦,結果資安署有啦我查一下你各部的預算你當部長的自己去了解一下你就說你基本上你各部會可是個新單位所以你有一些事項業務你並沒有很完整的納進來你有很多單位你那個數位發展部本身沒有反霸凌的預算這次大家質疑這個數位產業發展署也沒有啦但你資安署有啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6753.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6753.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
委員會議員會議員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6773.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6774.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
接下來我們請魯明哲召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6804.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6809.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
謝謝主席有請黃部長跟人事處處長謝謝兩位 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6822.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6849.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
委員我剛好也有機會在基層擔任過首長那因為現在至少這兩個多禮拜一個霸凌的事件是全民都在關心的那在這個問題的裡面我剛剛的感覺我們的速發部速發部的反應我是覺得稍微慢了一點也就是說當總統院長鞠躬道歉之後你們的目標就是趕快來修訂一下法規在11月28號20號 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6852.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6854.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6878.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6896.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
員工表達意見,你有沒有彙整?還是還沒收件?朝委請問的是那個什麼的調查。我跟委員報告。這樣好了啦。那我們這個任性司裡面的所有的同仁的收件沒有? |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6900.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6923.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
跟詹委員報告就是說就我們那個本部的那個離職率比較偏高的那個部分那大概確實我們那個瞭解就是昭緯有調查的這個部分那確實是我們那個六個業務室你都收卷了嗎?治安署每位同仁的反應你都收到了嗎?彙整了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6927.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6945.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
你到底在做什麼啦我跟你講齁真的很離譜啦剛剛一直講同仁怎樣同仁怎麼樣我們只問一個這種調查最基本的第一件事同仁保密的甚至不具名的不要有標示性的反應起來啊這件事有沒有做 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6947.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6962.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
到目前為止有沒有做在11月20號他單位發生這麼嚴重霸凌的事件當行政院長下令的時候你們這個當然我想這個部長也是問題你要負責啦齁處長在做什麼在觀望應該不會到我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6962.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6986.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
我跟你講每個單位可能都有這樣的危機啊你最基本的員工的反應我們同仁會不會有這樣的一個反應你至少要有這種警覺性我還沒有爆發我要警覺性所有的同仁全部你們反應一下不具名的你們反應一下各單位的一個情況你自己能夠幫忙部長做一個反應哪裡危機哪裡沒有危機我講的對不對我就認這個速度慢了 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6988.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7016.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
第二個呢 這個部長講真的 你們很算是整個數位部因為畢竟比較專業以前我們在部隊講說合理的叫訓練不合理的叫磨練問題現在這個社會發展到這個點上大概沒有什麼不合理的空間也許部隊還有一些其他我們在政府在管理這個部分我要必須給你們八個字就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7018.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7035.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
親身說重話親身重話親身也可以說重話嘛不要講髒話嘛重話也講得出來第二個禮職氣也可以喝我說真的那我們現在因為在做很多都做我們的數位的專業的 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7037.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7047.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
我們都說理科人我碰過蠻多的真的很直就是平常就只管01 01 01數位那他不知道0跟1之間還有100種1000種可能還有0.01像我們不是理科人我們覺得彈性很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7053.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7073.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
所以我是覺得對於我們所有主管甚至各單位二級的首長甚至科長、組長這個的部分如何做管理我是覺得這一方面的調教跟訓練甚至跟SOP是怎麼樣這個部分你要怎麼著手部長你說一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7074.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7097.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
謝謝委員的建議的確這件事情就是讓我也跟部內同仁講就是我們要加強我們的所謂訓練教育訓練包括靈導統一的訓練也就是說剛剛委員講的很好我們要我用一句話就是我們要愛的教育鐵的紀律也就是說我們紀律是要很嚴格但是你那個在跟員工在溝通的時候那個愛那個字很重要所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7098.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7114.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
這個我們會在內部然後我們會再請外面的一些專家跟老師來跟我們做內部的訓練希望這個所謂的職場霸凌的這個事情在我們數位發展部不會再發生好那這個部分我還有第二個建議啦第二個建議說 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7115.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7133.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
因為現在霸凌事件發生到現在我們也希望不要到最後走到偏差了就是我們要真的把不對的事情把它找出來不要讓對的事情連講都不敢講因為以前就我的經驗我們現在在政府裡面說真的八成的員工 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7134.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7154.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
都能夠他做完他的事情他能夠符合他的能量甚至有三層四層他是蠻優秀的但是有兩層呢需要你去關心去輔導這也是事實啦這也是事實啦那也許有個3%到5%3%到5%因為我以前碰過好不好人家來罵我為什麼我們這個裝個路燈兩個月或做工程兩個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7160.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7182.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
完全沒有消息不裝也沒給消息結果我一去看我們承辦人這事實喔哇那抽屜一打開半年以上的公文他壓在這裡那所以如果以現在的標準說我不知道怎麼樣跟他好好講那肯定要臭罵一頓的所以我是覺得怎麼樣在工作性質上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7183.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7208.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
不要到私人的個人的一個上面我是覺得這是一個關鍵的一個重點這個部分我建議這整個要去推敲尤其剛剛我們署長也特別說壓力這麼大對不對我覺得這個東西是非常非常重要的管理還是持續要做但是只是不要情緒失控這是我的建議那再來就是我們數位三件特別看到你的一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7210.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7233.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
強化打詐公私協力其中一樣剛剛很多委員講11政府短碼檢訊平台上路當然我講不幸中的大幸是因為他現在是用舊的2G的一個平台用車載著到處去跑然後去干擾現在可能5G、4G的訊號台然後他發出去那只有 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7234.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7244.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
中間還有二級的功能的手機能夠收到可是你知道嗎其實不光是二級手機了那常常發的是Hokang |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7245.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7265.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
我二級手機其實也沒有存二級手機太少啦可能就四級下融到三級二級他有這種功能啦他收得到結果他訊號一關掉他要恢復四級啦他趕快發給群組哇這好康政府又提供什麼所以這種東西我是覺得也不能忽視因為我是比較擔心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7266.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7292.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
看到一個事情不是111二級手機影響比較少而看到一個問題其實最認真去遵行推敲我們數位部、數發部最新政策的還有NC最新政策的其實是詐騙集團你有什麼訊息什麼可以代表政府的公信力公信力了他就跟上來你想想看像這樣的一個情況111 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7294.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7321.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
代表政府現在大概我們網路去google我可以看到自己十幾個二十個包括我們千里山他特別專業各位111請不要擔心絕對不是詐騙他同時間在幫你宣傳的有345個單位機關嘛你們在整個用到現在也大概4600多萬通在發那如果你夾雜這個的部分等於這些宣傳的機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7322.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7329.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
也順便再幫忙他那個詐騙集團他宣傳都沒有宣傳了因為大家都說11是標準的讓你看看8月1號111的簡訊你就可以放棄記得111簡訊是政府發送的能避免被詐騙集團保有111安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7342.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7344.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
所以我最後一個拜託啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7369.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7370.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
數位批夾 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7391.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7399.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
手機裡面這個部分你們在建制現在花了大概兩億喔大概這兩年喔今年加明年大概會 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7400.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7428.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
議員８ |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7428.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7450.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
那個PGC用最新的加密技術再加一個國際認證的標籤PKI這樣的一個技術所以就是說這個資料在你的手機裡面一定要經過一些認證這個認證是不是商號密碼而是你的生物特徵然後進去之後像FIDO這種然後進去之後才去渠道裡面資料再解密才能真正使用所以有多重的保護那應該這個應該是相對的相當的安全應該的齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7455.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7479.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
我們也希望我們希望是真正的政府做的到時候如果真的發生詬病的話那種反彈壓力非常大我們真的不希望這個道高一尺魔高一丈這種天天在台灣詐騙集團上演我們不要每一次各單位NCC追在詐團的後面我們真的希望有方法堵在詐團的一個前面我們真的希望一起努力謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7488.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7500.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
好謝謝盧明哲抓委那接下來我們請何欣淳委員好謝謝我們請我們請黃部長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7507.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7531.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
部長剛剛很多委員在擔心數位皮夾之前我是反對數位身份證的數位身份證為什麼因為我們大家都知道治安的問題所以數位皮夾你現在要推動最重要的是要取得人民的信任要取得人民的信任就是要治安能夠讓人家信任所以我今天就要來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7533.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7533.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7549.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7565.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
三層的原因未知那各自沒有保障的情況之下民眾如何安心這個我想這個數據是從你們這個數位發展部來的那如果說以2023年公部門的資安通報697件那你們也要當了有市警那你們市警只是市警告訴各個部門說怎樣才有這個風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7575.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7595.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
可是問題是要真正的維護各個公部門的資安通報後的一個個資的一個安全跟所謂的這個處理因應的話還是要來自於各部門的資訊人員資安人員對不對通報之後各部門對就是是不是也要來自於各部門的這個資安人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7597.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7617.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
是沒錯對是沒錯嘛對不對好來問題是在於我們如何能夠信任政府的資安人員第一個人力夠不夠來你自己來看現在呢112年中央及地方政府的資安專職人員配置情形表 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7619.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7646.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
這是你們給我的數字那我們統計了一下真正的資安的專職正式人員僅佔各個政府機關通報出來的人員的六成專職正式人員只有佔六成而且我必須要跟部長提醒一下這個表格裡面所提報的人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7648.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7657.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
我跟你講是由各機關提報至於各機關提報的他認定的資安專職人員到底是不是真的資安專責人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7660.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7681.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
我不知道你們有查核嗎我不知道那他的認定標準又是如何他是依據什麼來填報那我們呢速發布又是如何要來盤點檢討在整個提報裡面的資安專職的正式人員僅佔6成那其他4成都不是正式人員喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7682.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7708.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
這是以數字來講第二個是以這麼多的機關裡面包括 ABC因為你們治安的層級有分ABC級那以ABC級呢你看喔中央地方你就有這樣子的一個人數上人力上還有專業上大家沒辦法放心的地方所以也就是說如果你沒辦法讓人家放心沒有辦法讓人家安心 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7709.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7724.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
那如何去做治安真的是讓大家肯定說政府在推任何的數位的東西都OK的都不會被詐騙的都不會被害辱的都不會被怎樣的部長你知道我的 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7725.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7744.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
議員提醒嘛對了解謝謝委員提醒的確那個人力不足就治安人力不足確實是一個問題那所以我們在治安署治安院有不同的program在訓練人才那剛剛我在檢那個一開始業務報告也說也說過我們基本上治安轉執訓培養大概至少2000人來這個就是我接下來跟你討論的問題囉接下來下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7747.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7763.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
我早在2022年那時候數位發展部剛成立的時候國科會那時候的吳政中他是政委兼國科會主委他也是行政院資安匯報的什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7764.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7764.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7790.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7798.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
也偵測了資安類科可是部長你知道嗎我們目前看到只有開缺6個人為什麼會是這樣子你知道嗎來來請 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7808.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7824.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
謝謝委員的確今年的開卷比較不多那我有去問了各個部會他們是目前他們覺得說還不太確定說那我問你不要管地方中央裡面的A級的資安的機關有幾個 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7827.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7842.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
A級A級有47個47個那我剛剛講的上一頁你們的資安專職的正式人員僅佔全部的六成左右A級的機關又特別需要注重資安 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7843.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7851.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
可是呢我們看到現在我們好不容易跟人事總署爭取到跟行政院爭取到我增設了資安類科我可以國家來招考專業正式的資安人員那為什麼只有6個第一年開缺的時候因為報考的就是機關也想要現我們去訪談的結果啦機關想要被訓練成熟拿到證書的他覺得剛考上沒有辦法立刻上手那這個是必須要溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7870.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7893.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
議員８ |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7893.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7910.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
議員８ |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7910.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7914.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
我們訴發部不管是之前的唐鳳部長甚至到後來黃部長來拜訪我我就說你們要進行全國各機關就算各機關你們沒辦法盤點好了最沒A級的A類的你們真正需要的資安人員專業正式人員到底有多少那要怎麼跟行政院建議要怎麼跟各部會來溝通協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7935.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7946.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
你在溝通協調的時候你就跟各個部會應該跟各機關都要講我們有爭取要加開增設資安類科就應該要去說服說各機關如果你有缺專業正式人員那我現在國考要增加這一個類科囉那你們是不是應該要提報你們現在怎麼會被動的來跟我講說因為呢開卻的時間太晚離現在呢所以報名的只有6個 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7961.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7975.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
這個不是理由吧我們推資安的專業正式人員的這一件事情又不是今年才開始是報告委員委員的指導其實我們有有認真的聽然後我們也真的做了全 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7975.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7982.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
的詢回跟機關跟機關說明了這個。你們就是只有去詢回啦然後詢回是跟誰講我不知道。因為其實機關機關有想要增額錄取啦但是問題是他們提出來的時候的時間沒搭上那所以我會覺得在今年時間沒搭上對不好意思這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7992.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8020.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
因為去年才剛開第一次考試所以其實準備的機關準備的時間也不夠多啦那因為我們提報考缺其實要比較可能譬如說要半年前我要再跟部長講我們講這件事不是今年第一年講啊這不是今年第一年講啊你現在跟我講說提的這個什麼時間太短所以造成這個後果那明年會更多 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8024.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8049.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
我們回去會檢討然後加速處理這個接下來第二個除了我們開這個國考之外第二個就是你剛剛部長所講的我們廣發英雄帖我們說各個機關裡面的資訊處理人員也可以來轉職或者是一般的主持要他的專業背景或者是他曾經有過那樣子的一個經驗他也可以來轉職系對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8051.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8068.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
可是現在你們說每年要拚5000名職安人才那現在呢?訓練5000名目標5000名有達到嗎?部長我跟你講你們達不到啊我跟你們要資料你們都還不敢跟我講說今年到底幾千人勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8070.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8070.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
報告委員我們有訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8089.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8092.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
而專職真的專職證書是2500人然後其他的專職連譬如說工作坊訓練的60人這個數字上 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8101.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8118.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
第一個我再強調一次我已經先給你題目了是沒有給我書面資料在我質詢之前你不給我說拿不出來第二個我現在問的是因為我給你題目了你告訴我這個答案但是我要指也是這個答案是說有證書他就等於治安人員嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8120.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8136.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
不是喔你們這個有兩個程式的處理喔像我說的回到我第一頁說的我們各機關的資安專業正式人員那必須要這兩件事要處理第一個要有休息學分 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8136.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8153.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
二十個學分以上而且必須要考試類科跟資訊處理直系相近第二個治安的專職人員還必須要有第一個證照第二個訓練證書跟一張以上因為你有不同的成績嘛有的要求兩張有人要求三張嘛對不對是啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8153.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8170.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
那所以因為呢不同的訓練不同的證照所以你們不同層級的治安人員那這個就是我希望這個不是你們說啊你什麼每年拼五千名啊那個五千名只是一個概括的數字啊我們真正要的是各機關裡面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8172.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8197.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
知安人員到底人手足不足我不希望像勞發署那個資訊人員一樣只有他一名正式人員其他的都不是正式人員所以他一個人要扛整個北分署的一個責任這件事情上我覺得人力不足還有我們的訓練專業訓練政府到底有沒有給足力量給足資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8199.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8207.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
這才是我們要做的啊是是不是我們第一個努力限職轉職系他的確是剛剛委員講的他必須要有20個學分或360個360個小時的學習那但是在職的人在職人現有的人他必須要合格他也必須拿兩張證照所以這兩種訓練我們都有在辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8220.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8235.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
議員８ |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8235.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8245.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
那也不是你說的五千好吧那三千多人三千多人之後我們又要預算去支持他們讓他們能夠轉型成功不是嗎報告委員其實部長講的五千人是全面的訓練就是已經是資安人員他也必須一直進步所以全部的人的拿執照的訓練可是我現在跟委員報告是轉直系 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8257.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8282.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
你們現行的專業的資安的正式人員就很少啊我也希望那個也謝謝委員的支持然後我也希望說各個部會能夠盡量支持我讓正式的專職人員能夠成立那這個我們也在修法就以後的強制度可能會高一點啦但是這個我覺得真的是必須努力真的是謝謝委員拜託啦部長我今天會質詢這個就是要讓你看到說數字不代表一切啦真正實際上各機關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8285.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8306.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
資安專業正是人力嚴重的不足啦那好吧不足那我們怎麼樣用最快的速度用最足夠的資源趕快來補足所以我拜託策略性請讓有效率的一個擬定策略第二個盡速的把這個補足資安人員的這個時程表可以趕快給出來第三個專業的輔導 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8308.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8309.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
接下來有請黃建豪委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8346.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8353.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
好謝謝主席我們先請數位部黃部長黃部長跟任性建設師鄭明忠司長好鄭司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8364.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8389.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
委員好來部長好市長好這個一開始當然還是要關切一下我想我們這新聞上事件看到了這個數位部職場霸凌案的問題我想今天市長來我覺得還是先給肯定市長你願意勇於負責相較於先前這個勞動部那位分組長直接消失不見了我想市長的這個態度還值得肯定那我想先請教一下這個市長你被指控的這些事情是事實呢還是這是你們這個內部的這個職場鬥爭 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8394.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8395.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
部長當然是這樣啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8419.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8438.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
我可以知道你要愛護這個同仁的心情而且但是這個事情是這樣之前包含總統也好院長也好都已經下令說要各單位來清查這個事情那但是的確下令之後很多委員都收到各式各樣的投訴跟各式各樣的爆料那今天這個新聞也上了檯面了 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8440.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8468.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
議長在,市長也在,我們希望利用這個機會,我也不會關太久,我只想請市長簡單說明這個是事實呢?還是說這個是涉及到內部的這個鬥爭?因為其實我們去講一個另外面向啊,的確霸凌案發生之後我們也收到很多的檢舉案啊但是有些並不是事實啊,有些是內部的這個爭議嘛所以我今天想要請市長有機會可以把話講清楚一下這個你被指控、被爆料、被投訴的這個東西第一個它是不是事實?你為什麼這樣做?那第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8470.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8496.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
這樣做的原因會不會爆料出來有沒有涉及到你們內部的這個爭鬥鬥爭的問題謝謝委員給我這個機會我想這個事情造成整個部裡面整個還有對我們部的形象的傷害深感抱歉那我會甚至檢討然後接受調查因為部裡面已經成立專案調查小組我會接受調查以上好市長謝謝市長請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8500.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8519.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
好部長我還是要再次強調我們肯定司長至少今天願意出席啦比起不願意面對這個之前的謝憤組長好太多了所以我想後續不管他調查結果怎麼樣本期今天還是要肯定說司長願意在這個數位部質詢的時候他願意來出席這個這個隨時被可能被問到的問題好那進到主題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8520.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8547.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
這部長我們過去常常很多次已經跟數位部溝通過到底你們第三方支付怎麼管理那之前你們跟我提說你們有這個能量登錄的問題能量登錄之後那如果沒有登錄的業者他跟銀行之間的這個金流銀行端你會去處理但是我們從這個重大的新聞看到之前這個數支付之前也曾經在這個能量登錄的這個清單上面當然先被廢止了我想問一下什麼時候被廢止的 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8549.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8553.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
報告委員,我們現在正在精進這地方制度的集合的工作,那是不是請署長做個說明。好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8556.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8580.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
謝謝委員給我們這個機會說明那我們在事前的話部長已經指示了以後要登錄一定要徵信那在事中的話一定要現地審查不是只有會議審查那事後的話一定要會同國稅局以及調查局去查核這個部分的精進我們正在推行當中部長跟這個署長你看之前這個大概有第三次還第四次質詢問這個所謂第三方支付你們到底怎麼管理的問題後端金流的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8582.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8597.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
拜託說如果今天因為這個東西是你們曾經放上所謂的能量登錄的審和通過名單的所以可能有業者或民眾不知情他甚至搜尋新聞都是正面新聞搜尋官方文件他也在上面那表示說你們這個能量登錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8598.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8624.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
現在才要再做審核那表示現在放在名單上的公司是不是都可能變成詐騙集團洗錢的工具那你們到底要怎麼辦呢已經講了這麼久了結果現在被媒體爆出來說這個數支付曾經被你們放在這個審核上數支付曾經就在這個能量登錄上審核通過名單在前期版他都在上面但是他卻是詐騙集團洗錢的工具 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8625.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8632.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
那表示能量登錄沒有意義了嘛那你們是說要去跟銀行端去做這個背書去做審查我想問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8633.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8657.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
數位部有能力去管銀行嗎那像這樣子而且這是你們通過的這個是你們放在能量登錄的網站上面所以說實在當然依照你們的說法還合法合理的去跟銀行去做交涉銀行也覺得說你是通過數位部認證的還去通過這個國際FIDO聯盟這FIDO聯盟不只這個公司有加入啊你們數位部也有加入啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8660.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8685.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
所以你們共同等於是在形象上面第一個你們有名單上有這個公司那FDI聯盟裡面蘇師傅也獲他們邀請然後數位部也在這FDI聯盟裡面那變成好像他是個很合法很合理的公司結果他就肆意洗錢所以我今天要講的是當然你們要去做徵信這個一定要做的嘛但我覺得問題是說之前一直提到一件事情詐騙最嚴重的問題是後續的金流怎麼走那結果今天我在這個名單裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8687.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8702.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
被放上名單的公司他居然可以去涉及洗錢那是不是還有其他的未報單數位部要怎麼稽查你們跟財政部或是你們跟機管會到底要怎麼合作還是這件事情是各推各的我們現在就是在精進這個整個計畫的機制我再請署長說個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8703.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8721.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
那三個面向來回復委員的問題第一個是查核我們幾乎已經快全部查核了所以以後這樣諸之乎這樣的會機率其實是很低的我們都要限定要找資安專家跟法律專家去查核這是第一點第二點的話我們跟我們讓檢警調去查詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8722.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8741.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
我們現在有一個快訊的查,市長方似乎那個訊息上的快訊快速的查詢那個可以很快的就全存了這個是第二點第三點數字會claim他他那個FIDO那個是錯的我們跟FIDO聯盟的主席已經確認過了那個是比較錯誤的資訊他們發假新聞是不是錯誤的對他們發佈假新聞是不是這個意思他其實已經調查局好像已經找他 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8751.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8773.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
那這裡也要掌握啊,他發的新聞這已經是今年年中的事情了我們跟FIDO聯盟的主席都確認過了那FIDO聯盟主席裡面除了這間公司之外還有沒有其他台灣現在第三方支付看起來可能有問題的公司在裡面目前我們會再跟大家確認不過那時候只有這一家這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8776.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8793.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
那銀行端裡面回答我啊到底銀行端怎麼處理他們是誰去做徵信是你們做徵信還是銀行做徵信還是財政部還是金管會因為今天還是核心問題嘛你們一開始跟我保證的這是這個會期講的事情說放上去能量登錄的這些第三方支付都是合法 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8794.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8818.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
合理的合法的公司但是實際上就沒有實際上就是你們放上去的公司5月5、6月5、6月份還在上面的公司今天9月份爆發這個被檢點查獲他為詐騙集團洗錢那你現在還把它撤掉那我現在問你們就算以現在台幣上這幾間公司來講你們到底要怎麼去稽查那到底你們曾經背書過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8819.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8841.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
所以銀海跟他們配合了那現在你們當然還在查嘛但是還在查過程裡面誰能夠來為這些地方方支付設定所謂停損如果民眾今天民眾又被詐騙團騙了因為每天都在發生啊你每個月申報的詐騙集團的這個金額高達上百億啊所以比如說從現在開始今天現在12月你還在查你還沒查完 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8842.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8853.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
那12月又被騙上百億一月再騙上百億二月再騙上百億那都是通過這種第三方支付公司去做洗錢的工作那我想問一下數位部的功能你們做這個所謂的能量登錄的功能在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8860.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8875.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
委員回報一下就是銀行當然他也會有自己的集合的程序這個反而他就有一些相關的程序那我們這邊其實是因為資訊來源很大的一部分除了我們蒸汽以外還有電話局這邊我們跟電話局其實有密切的合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8875.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8897.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
到時候調查局其實為了我們會協同調查局跟國稅局去做集合好那這個你們提書費報告吧因為這個你們講很多次了我之前每次問你們都跟我講會跟調查局會跟銀行會跟計畫合作但是事實證明就這件事情是無效的那最後一點時間我再問一次齁再問一件事情除了第三方支付公司之外還有一個管道之前大家也提醒過很多次就是所謂超商繳費稅務管不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8900.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8926.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
這個數位部超商講會的問題你知道這個國內的這些超商業者他們沒有收到欸還有沒有說沒有收到說這個通知說他們不能跟沒有進行能量登錄的公司合作換句話說沒有進行能量登錄的這些公司他們是在銀行端你們在銀行端這邊有處理的但是這些所謂第三方支付公司他們還是有很多虛擬戰戶有很多虛擬戰戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8928.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8930.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
知道,那這已經也有處理,請素查說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8946.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8946.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
這個條代碼跟某個公司對應是確實這樣我知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8969.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8991.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
但是我認為說詐騙行為發生的那一刻他是要詐騙行為發生之後檢體掉介入了我才會知道這個錢這個帳戶是被騙的嗎是假的嗎那我說前端呢前端超商我在跟這些第三方支付公司合作的時候我需要怎麼樣認證我需要知道什麼消息我才能夠跟這個第三方支付公司來簽約 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8992.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8992.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
委員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9017.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9041.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
今天要跟某間第三方支付公司合作的時候你們的所謂的能量登錄或是其他的機制能不能跟超商去要求或怎麼樣配合他們去審核還是跟現在一樣就是自由奔放的想跟誰合作就跟誰合作現在就是這樣啊跟委員回報就是我們現在有64家登錄通過的當然超商會找這個64家他們沒有收到通知啊他們說他們沒有收到通知啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9042.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9053.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
那我們會再來跟經濟部這邊再來通知我們上次已經找四大超商那個已經cover台灣大部分的這個這個條代碼的一個代收代付這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9053.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9053.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
好,謝謝黃委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9085.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9087.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
接下來有請廖謙祥委員發言好謝謝昭偉麻煩我們的黃部長黃部長那個數位任性司政事長也可以陪同 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9109.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9135.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
部長昨天發生一件國際大事應該非常清楚昨天夜間的時候南韓總統發布了戒嚴當然最終大家是形容是以失敗告終雖然說最後一次他說解除戒嚴當然他認為他戒嚴失敗那過程中大家正式撇開政治的問題在實務執行上他這一次戒嚴會失敗的原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9136.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9147.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
其實跟我們數位發展部的業務其實多多少少如果說移植到我們國內的話也有一點點關係如果說以這一次南韓戒嚴失敗來講的話你覺得他哪一點沒有做好才會失敗 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9151.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9176.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
這個事件我知道那個起源跟那個因為報告委員我沒有特別去研究不過我覺得這個民主國家是這樣子啦就是說這個本來就是一個不應該發生的事情因為任何的這個沒關係我們不用去評論他啦畢竟是他我師父我們講人家可能也不太好就像我們執政黨發文去批評人家國會我覺得都不太好啦就實務面來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9178.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9197.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
當他總統發布建言的時候那為何他沒有辦法在第一個時間控制住國內的輿論群眾或者是讓國會議員沒辦法讓軍隊控制住國家我要講的你應該很清楚他沒有控制網路對不對他沒有控制通訊網路 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9198.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9215.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
所以他失敗了這很多因素之一但通訊網路沒有控制是一個很大的原因那假設中華民國的總統今天說要發布戒嚴中華民國的總統全部要發布戒嚴那來諮詢我們速發布的意見要控制我們的網路您會建議他怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9216.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9238.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
報告委員我們是一個自由民主國家我們網路是一個分散治理其實在以現在的那個機制來講我們沒有辦法完全去封鎖我們不是像中國有個什麼規模規模這種長程去整個就封鎖我們台灣是做不到的是基本上我們台灣是沒有這個機制也沒有這個能力去我們的國家政府沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9239.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9257.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
下令中華電信停止服務嗎?沒有,因為我們有很多所謂的...中華電信也是國營啊,它不會配合嗎?可是我們的網路有接取有太多種,不只是一類電信還有二類電信所以有分好幾種嘛,我們的網路有分兩種包括我們現在在講國家數位任性的時候我們就是把傳統的光纖這個... |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9259.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9286.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
光瀾去跟中低軌的衛星去做一個區隔去增加它的韌性但是在實體的電纜這個部分國家應該是很容易去做控制跟封鎖的沒錯吧也也因為這個能夠經營這個實體跟這個網路的也蠻多公司的所以我覺得主要是說你要封鎖要針對某一個user或某一個去封鎖在我們台灣市或是你要封鎖國外的網站某個網站完全封鎖 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9287.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9314.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
直接切斷整個網路呢整個切斷網路那就是那個會造成更多問題對啊那如果說政府下令這樣子那目標是這樣子我們要問你說這樣對不對你就是一個政府的官員嘛提供專業意見嘛當政府想要切斷我們國內的網路的時候那分兩部分嘛一個是實體的網路嘛做不做得到實體網路目前來講因為我們實體網路經營的公司還蠻多的所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9315.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9331.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
我個人覺得困難很多啦就是說也不是那麼容易因為我們剛剛講網路是個分散治理分散服務的一個我們在台灣是這樣子所以我們並沒有個中央集權去控制整個網路的流量或是網路裡面的言論那這樣子我們談數位認清幹嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9332.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9348.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
我們如果說我們談數位任性我們國家沒有辦法控制的話那何況是外部勢力我們現在一直在講外部勢力如果說介入我們國家的通訊安全的時候我們要任性嘛結果現在連我們自己的國家都不怕這個就是說我們的網路我們很安全沒有問題連國家都沒有辦法中斷了那國外的外部勢力怎麼中斷這樣不是有點矛盾嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9355.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9380.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
拜託委員這個是主要是說我講說網路的基礎架構這個是一個分散式治理所以我們除非有就是說基本上要把它完全封鎖是有它的困難但是呢就是說如果將來就像剛剛講說特定的那些不當的言論就是我們要不同的方法去做這個管理那但是管理剛剛講就是說我們這樣可以從這個為什麼我們會有這個所謂的這個打詐專法就是為什麼要針對某些 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9384.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9385.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
市長現在還有衛星還有衛星嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9404.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9424.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
我現在就要對實體網路封閉之後我們有衛星因為我們也是怕說我們的海底電纜是不是被境外的勢力切斷嘛所以我們現在在討論韌性網路衛星網路那我們現在的國內的衛星網路是不是全部都是走B2B的模式就是他可能都知道透過中華電信或是一個代理商經過我們政府的許可 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9425.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9436.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
他才能夠營業因為我們甚至包括之前大家在廣泛討論的Starlink的時候因為他沒有辦法符合我們國家法定那個這個股權的比例我們國內必須要超過50%對不對他沒有辦法符合比例所以說在 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9441.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9463.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
這個中低軌衛星網路的部分還是做到我們國家高度的監管嘛是不是所以說我們國家是有這個權利去廢止它的一個營運的許可包括我們發布戒嚴的時候現在包括我們的實體網路我們可能可以透過這個接收站的一個封鎖那包括我們的這個衛星中低軌網路我們也可以廢止營運商的一個營運吧是不是國家是不是有這個權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9468.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9483.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
如果一定要把所有對外的這個所有的管道包括光纖海底電能跟衛星都封鎖那當然就是說最後就只剩下我們自己國家發射的衛星可以使用那時候他要給用誰用就很簡單了對不對可是這個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9484.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9510.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
我還是覺得這困難性蠻高的啦那就是說這個東西假設也就是說我們國家可以做到我們要給誰網路不給誰網路這件事情我們是做得到的是不是我們只要切斷所有外面的網路的連結利用我們國家自己發射的低軌衛星我們現在在佈置的嘛對不對我們就可以很輕易的去選擇我們要提供給誰網路資訊服務不給誰網路資訊服務對不對我報告委員我那個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9511.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9540.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
我是認為我們是法治國家這個事情不會發生我的問題你可以吐槽我沒關係啊你可以說我不對哪裡不對嘛就是就是這個就當然就講說如果你發生這個像剛剛講就是說把我們的海底電纜全部阻隔包括衛星全部阻隔那因為海底電纜也有其他國家我們現在像進來我們國家海底電纜包括google包括Amazon |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9540.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9558.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
他們也都在拉電腦這樣所以你說把中華電信切斷是完全切斷網路倒也不至於因為我們事實上這個網路目前部件像他們在臺灣設電腦那總算還是有接收站嘛對不對那個包括光就海底電腦其實好啦我今天就跟部長討論一下我也不是說一定說就是討論這次的問題還怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9560.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9587.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
我們在討論數位韌性的時候過去常常是講國家對國家我們當我們國家遇到了一些問題的時候可能會因為封鎖的問題影響到我們國內的資通訊的網路但是我們從來沒有思考過國家跟人民之間的關係當我們國家今天不要講民進黨你也可以想說有一天國民黨重新執政了國民黨要搞戒嚴要來中斷網路的時候我們怎麼建立人民的數位韌性怎麼做得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9587.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9601.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
最重要的一定要開放B2C的軌道衛星部長會不會認同這個要是看我們台灣的法律如果法律允許的話當然是可以所以台灣現在目前可不可以走B2C的衛星 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9602.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9605.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
現在還沒有開放嗎?現在還沒有開放嗎?羅雷?現在就是都走代理嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9619.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9634.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
那另外一個先前有個新聞委員應該也看到了就是現在的臺科大他藉由手機可以支援衛星所以其實人民還是有擷取這網路的權利只不過要營業這樣的行為必須在我國登記為電影事業以上跟我們報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9635.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9635.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
拜訪委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9657.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9657.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
謝謝廖委員 現在休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10273.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10279.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
好,我們繼續開會現在有請陳雪真委員發言剛才那個調查局打電話來今天是我們專委魯明哲委員的生日來點掌聲好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10300.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10322.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
你幹嘛講調查局啊有點壓力我哪有那麼厲害祝我們召委生日快樂長命百歲早生貴子生完了生完了是不是請我們黃志偉謝謝黃部長黃部長對不起部長我接續上一次的質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10330.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10331.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
昨天我看你們的官網 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10348.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10351.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
那在遠船的部分遠船的部分南竿大概只有四圍村可能老家記一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10383.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10405.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
市委村還收不到,北竿大概我講遠傳的部分北竿大概各村都通,但是村外村落以外的都收不到,那舉光那邊大概除了清凡跟大屏、福鎮、涵蓋率上渴了 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10407.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10432.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
其他村莊也都收不到,全無東雲鄉就是樂華村跟中柳村含要率尚可其他地區也收不到我講到其他地區可能我們有阿兵哥有軍人防衛部、指揮部、營部、聯部我想馬祖地區我們居民一家同島一命 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10434.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10461.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
這個部隊的部分也勞駕能夠幫忙一下好不好部長先跟委員報告我們在12月2號有開了針對這個問題有開了一個會那我們在偏鄉就是說在預算方面我們變成2.25億就希望能夠改進剛剛講到馬祖這個5G的涵蓋那細節是不是請市長再進一步說明好你說明一下勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10463.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10488.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
我們上次11月22日委員執行之後我們12月22日立刻就召集了三大針對馬祖地區的建設那所以剛剛我們部長有說我們其實114年前截有2.25億然後呢現在馬祖有125台5G基地台跟委員說明5G所以會不好是因為它後面的背後後面的後船不夠強大所以我們現在這個海南也積極在建置然後我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10489.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10501.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
其實明年會再加設9站的基地台以馬祖人口來講總共125加9這個人比例非常高我們會再加謝謝委員今天提供這些資訊我們會再請業者再加錢臺灣大哥大都未達40%未達40% |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10511.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10538.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
那麼當然剛才部長也講了113年10月補助5G業者建置15340座的5G基地台全國那是全國全國應該有2萬台了吧?3萬了還2萬?基地台啊?全國10萬台補助的部分是1萬不錯啦,我們目前普及率應該全世界台灣地區算最高的 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10540.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10547.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
114年編任預算2.25億,剛剛部長講了補助電信事業加速在偏遠地區設置5G基地台現在5G時代已經來臨了,離島無感1421億的標金只進不出你看目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10569.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10590.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
我們4G的手機大概都已經買不到了市面上沒有了都5G的但是卻還在沿用4G時代的4G的普及率比較高5G的很像還不到達一半還沒有到達一半那我是覺得112年2月2號跟8號我們海嵐中斷兩條 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10597.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10620.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
海產中量兩台那麼大概是中共漁船還是不明的船隻破壞了那麼政府的機關金融交易醫療服務及交通運輸等運作我們受到影響這個到月底才恢復到月底所以這個時間沒辦法即時的轉換 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10625.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10653.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
提升馬祖離島網路的韌性,強化低軌衛星提供全天候的24小時全時段的服務這個是很重要的,部長你覺得呢?目前我們有低軌衛星有8個盤子在馬祖那這個低軌衛星引入馬祖通訊的韌性提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10654.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10672.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
也拜託速發部啊你們現在是不是在全時的服務啊?我不曉得你雖然已經完成了全台第一軌衛星的網路的涵蓋但是還沒有到達24小時來提供服務所以本席 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10673.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10697.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
想請教一下截至目前為止全台灣的衛星通訊是不是已經24小時全時在服務?就是12月底前就會全台24小時服務什麼時候開始?12月底就是等那個灣位那邊確認開通應該在目前給我們的數的那個時間是12月底部長那個上次講到我們第四條海欄 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10699.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10729.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
第四條海欄你們要補助中華電要補助多少錢大概?1.4億1.4億?會不會太少了一點?因為我看你們預算編了很多啊NCC所有的經費預算都已經在你們都已經在書發布了嘛所以你這個如果不去處理啊那個我們繼續爭取額外預算來補助這個海底電能1.4億能不能再增加一些?我們去爭取,我們會去爭取 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10730.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10755.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
因為我現在就少三一點嘛是不是?你補助多一點我就少三一點嘛因為這個大家對尤其NCC啊現在任務我看起來已經慢慢逐漸在萎縮了啦齁所有的功能都已經在速發部了那你速發部的角色當然相對的持重啦齁那你中華電信雖然是官民股都有啦齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10756.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10776.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
問題是他們有沒有那麼多錢我是很懷疑是不是請數法部這邊在經費補助的部分能夠再做一些檢討稍微給他調整一下我們加速第四條海欖線的進行那麼尤其海欖在中斷的時候你們低軌衛星怎麼樣進場 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10779.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10779.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
接下來有請邱若驊委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10812.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10840.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
謝謝主席首先先祝主席生日快樂那主席我們有請事務發布黃部長好黃部長部長好部長我們先來看到第一張投影片請問部長這兩張圖差別在哪裡兩張圖下面有多個可以看到更多的說明可以什麼樣的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10841.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10868.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
就是這個什麼東西不見了就是上網點擊人數不見了點擊人數不見了那11月13日的時候黃國昌在我們交通委員會質詢的時候有針對素材署樂齡好幫手網站點閱率過低的問題提出質詢那隨後本席辦公室在11月28日上該網站上面查詢點擊率的時候發現點擊率消失了不見了 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10869.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10885.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
本席立即向素材署詢問為什麼點擊率會消失呢那素材署給本席的回覆是部長您參考因為使用者習慣不同所以會讓個別網站的點擊率過低所以個別的點擊率呢他不適合作為找尋平台資源的參考依據請問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10886.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10888.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
為什麼原本在網站上的點擊率被拿下來了呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10906.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10926.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
因為剛剛就像他那邊所講的就是事實上我們整個的效率單看單一個點因為有4000多個網頁可以看所以如果單看某一個當然他的數目可能不高可是整體來看他是超過8萬人不小心在你的說法如果認為個個別的點局不適合呈現那為什麼一剛開始要放在網站上面了 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10928.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10946.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
為什麼是在黃國昌委員質詢之後才遮蔽典舉律?這是不是鴕鳥事態?我個人認為說這個也不叫遮蔽就是說我們希望看到是整體的效益而不是單疊各個網頁的效益所以才會講說那我們是不是把這個展現的方式做點調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10946.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10956.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
是展現還是想要逃避?是要逃避國會的監督嗎?沒有逃避因為我們還是會展現所有的點擊率所以所有點擊率剛剛講超過8萬人次這個還在上面這沒有消失 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10957.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10984.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
這沒有消失可是剛在圖片上面看到我們確實點擊率是整體的網頁的那個點擊率那個在在這個這個那部長你可以再上去網頁上面看看現在都是看不到了那對於速發部本來就是要促進高齡者生活便利而建置的網站本心給予肯定還有支持可是遇到這個網頁點閱成效不彰的時候應該是要去面對吧是要去我我還有想辦法提升民眾的使用率我們要去promotion就是說我們要去做多點做點宣傳 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10985.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10994.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
所以你們自己本身有沒有去參考大數據去分析高齡者他們的興趣然後還有相關的愛好的文章還有問題你們有去做分析嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10995.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11016.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
那個因為剛剛講就是這個東西是在我們是在10月10月21日上線所以所以這個資料的update一直在增加所以在黃委員黃國昌委員實施我們算是11月初的事情所以上線不到一個月那個是那時候show出來的number那現在我們這個這個經過這就多了一個月現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11017.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11039.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
是還是要請部長還有數位發展部就是被委員諮詢之後也不要用這種逃避的心態然後去遮蔽這個點閱率那也請數位發展部跟數位產署研議那如何有效推廣網站之對策還有另外點閱率為全民的監督政府之依據不應該被隱藏好那我們再來看到針對昨天的霸凌事件這邊要先請問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11042.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11067.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
公務人員考積法第6條規定規定年中考積以100分為滿分分為甲乙丙丁4等請問部長公務人員評評中有混蛋這個等級嗎?那個報告委員這個事情我們正在內部調查中如果有不適當就是說調查結果出來在12月11號出來後我們會做立即處理所以這個所以沒有這個等級嗎?為什麼有基層員工爆料有長官很喜歡用混蛋來評比公務人員所以我我 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11068.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11070.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
這樣的評比是出於第一兩三嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11070.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11092.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
這不應該有這種語言出現所以我就說這個是第一個我們需要有幾個部分一個就是說以後我會跟這個我的這個部門的主管講就是這個我們特別有想到說我們要有鐵的機率但是也要愛的教育就是說跟這個我們的這個所謂的部門的同仁溝通的時候要特別把愛放在心上所以若有愛在 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11093.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11099.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
有愛的教育有鐵的紀律然後還有混蛋這個評價那另外我要再問到那再來我要請教部長一個問題打X是什麼意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11104.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11127.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
報告委員這個我不清楚但是我們在調查就我會把它弄清楚現在這是數發部的職場文化嗎因為有的很喜歡給基層打差當然不是我們沒有這樣的一個那個絕大部分的主管跟這個我們部門同仁的溝通目前絕大部分啊這個都都都都就是說目前並沒有太多並沒有任何的抱怨但是少數那這我們在調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11128.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11141.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
因為11月20日的時候院長就要求各部會要來做清查然後數位發展部司長就被爆料了那本席對於數位發展部發覺自己內部能力的問題更是要打上一個大大的差還是部長你要不要給自己打一個差 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11144.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11161.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
我剛剛特別跟委員講就是說有一些不當的言語跟不當的行為我們調查之後我們會做處置那當然這個是非常不恰當的那我這邊剛剛也跟其他委員說我特別為這件事情做個道歉就是這個我們會事後處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11163.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11175.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
部長您昨天有回應已經成立專案小組了然後調查報告什麼時候出來12月11號以前會出來12月11號那部長您對數發布發生辦理案件部長您掌握多少瞭解多少那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11178.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11206.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
我在那個11月22號在院長在在在要求調查的時候我已經交代我們的部門的那個主管說我們開始要做內部調查那這個過程中當然發生了這些所謂的這些申訴案我們當然就要立刻處理那當然就是說至於說這個申訴我們剛剛講我們請了所謂的我們有請了幾個外部的專家包括學法律專家跟心理輔導專家從各個層面去評估這個事情的發生的原因背景跟他的行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11207.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11219.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
那蘋果報告出來後我們就會立刻處理所以是不是啊那本期希望這不是只是一個走一個流程跟走一個形式然後就吵吵結案了這邊問部長一個問題部長你今天的點心買了嗎部長你吃點心嗎點心對 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11222.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11248.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
通常不是我為什麼會問這個問題是因為原本規定開會喔便當或是點心喔只要一提供即可可是啊就有長官卻無視已經原本有會議便當了還強制要求公務員再提供點心導致公務員他不能違背這個法規下的前提他只能自己操腰包然後吸收買單部長您知道嗎這個也是在調查裡面這也在調查裡面那部長您知道師長的一個月薪水多少錢嗎師長的薪水 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11256.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11261.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
市長有人可以替部長做回答嗎?一定是不少啦那為什麼好沒關係部長那為什麼在數位發展部還有還有還有長官要基層公務人員替市長來做買單 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11276.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11285.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
這是不當的行為這是不當的行為喔那本席知道這個就是這只有一個感受啦稀有廖天丁劫富濟貧啊今有鄭市長劫貧濟急財謀趁中華對市長趁點心喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11290.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11316.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
那再來看到還有聽說師長的肺活量極差未來有沒有要接近徐明春部長開演唱會還是明年在中華隊資格經典賽的時候要不要請師長去球場用他強而有力的肺活量替我們中華隊來做應援呢就是我們這個要謹守這個公務人員應有的規範所以這個事情我們會部長您知道有咆哮下屬的這件事嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11317.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11318.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
接下來有請徐副魁委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11354.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11355.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
謝謝主席 我們有請黃部長黃部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11365.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11376.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
委員好部長好部長根據我們這個提交的一個預算報告我們114年度編列數位創新關鍵基礎建設計畫的預算是1億9千多萬那因為這個計畫是從113年到116年是4年的計畫但是我們從這個今年執行的狀況來看今年好像執行率只有14.5%截至8月份 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11393.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11399.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
那不曉得這個問題出在哪裡?這樣會不會影響到後續這三年的一個執行一個進度?我請那個國際市的市長來做個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11404.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11430.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
謝謝委員給我的時間有關於預算的諮詢率的部分因為我們在執行的過程中會有涉及到非常多的利害關係者必須要做充分的討論所以這諮詢率的整個開發的期程就會比較壓縮一點可是我們在這個壓縮過程中我們也希望說開發出來的東西是確保能夠非常的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11430.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11457.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
那所以我們目前的諮詢率原則上在今年年底會達到基本的門檻值那明年後年的預算的執行就不受到整個專案執行期程的影響以上說明部長市長因為這個案子剛有提到因為是需求很複雜而且必須要整合很多多方的一個利害關係人的一個意見那但是當時我們在執行的時候難道這些問題沒有事先來做規劃嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11459.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11465.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
這個包含這個風險評估嗎為什麼現在還得討論說這個執行率的問題會出現這樣的一個狀況這個這裡面有幾個重要計畫像數位皮夾計畫確實要牽涉到跟其他部會的溝通那所以這個的確在執行上需要討論跟溝通的那個過程會比較複雜跟比較冗長 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11483.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11501.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
但我也希望說能夠儘速的追上原來預計的執行的進度因為畢竟這裡面有幾個計畫是我們數位的這個所謂關鍵基礎建設是一個蠻多創新在裡面那這個如果推動得出來的話對政府的效率會有很高的提升所以我個人是對這計畫有蠻多的期許 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11503.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11526.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
我們都支持但是就是說還是要提醒說因為現在預算會期我們所有的立委大家也都會關注我們過去的執行的狀況跟未來你們便利的預算是不是合理執行上會不會有問題因為這個會影響到我們整個施政的方針跟我們這個百姓的一些福祉所以包含我們現在跨境數據這個授權系統的部分目前這個還有問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11528.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11533.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
數位批夾目前的階段已經有一些雛形的版本目前已經開始在召開包含政府間還有產業間之間的整個數位批夾的一個應用方式跟後續的一個發展規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11554.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11568.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
對,這個本席要提醒齁,這不要當時我們都推出這麼好的一個政策就跟數位身份證一樣,到最後將無疾而終,這個也被外界很多的指引齁,這個我們既然要講要做就應該要有具體的一個節奏啦齁,這點再提醒一下部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11569.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11594.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
我想數位創新關鍵的基礎建設計畫是有助於提升我們的一個基礎設施和促進一個跨境合作跟加速數位轉型的一個重大意義那這部分還是請部長我們團隊再強烈努力那針對行政院在去年訂定的新世代打擊炸氣的一個策略可能領1.5版那我知道我們數位部預計在明年就要推動這個2.0版 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11596.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11611.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
那不巧目前部長這個我們執行的進度是怎麼樣對就是在就是我們這個2.0版我們數話部被賦予一個主導的角色叫防詐那這邊委員所列的就是我們防詐目前會執行的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11612.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11613.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11640.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11662.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
就會在這個方面就所謂的廣告實名制然後會讓這些平台上的所謂的詐騙廣告包括假名人廣告會大量減少所以這個已經預期那其實目前已經Google跟Nine已經全部配合他們已經執行實名制那這個Facebook大概在明年年底前會全面配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11662.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11685.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
所以這個方面我相信在目前已經減少大概九成了我們目前已經看到這個詐騙廣告在這個平台已經減少九成那明年應該會減少更多所以這個應該在這一方面我們會看到其他的像遊戲點數啊這個第三萬支付都有精進措施然後有這個所謂的網路平台所謂的遊戲平台都有一些也都看到效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11686.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11704.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
總結來說,我們會繼續努力的加強防詐的工作希望從源頭就防止詐騙集團這是目前我們的做法部長我想包含第三方支付跟遊戲點數詐騙這些案子的處理當然我想我們還是需要公司來協力合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11705.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11723.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
那當然就是說這個溝通的過程裡面當然部長也很辛苦但是我覺得我們還是要加快時程尤其包含這些電信業者也好銀行端的部分怎麼樣來做一個有效整合我們還是要有一些的這個具體的一個操作的一個量化的一些成績出來我提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11724.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11741.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
好,不然那我請教一下針對這個AI的這個網路主動式的那個防禦關鍵技術這個案子那目前我們在便利的預算上面明顯我們感覺到計畫的目標跟成果鏈結不足那這部分我們怎麼樣來強化這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11744.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11764.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
這個計畫是我們補助治安院那治安院已經有根據這個這個把一些所謂KPI預計的KPI已經做了更明顯的說明那是不是請這個那報告委員最主要這個計畫大概就是說他駭客現在在用生人式AI進行攻擊之後他在一些技術或 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11765.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11781.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
或實效上會更加的提升所以我們大概這個部分我們就會委託資安院再去做用深圳市AI的方式當防守方然後來用AI的技術讓攻擊方能夠在實效或效能上能夠達到一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11782.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11806.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
那我們有沒有什麼具體的一些指標可以來直接反映所謂的一個AI的研發的一個水準包括有一些國際專利的一些申請數量還有技術商品化的一個進度這些有沒有比較具體的一個東西有包括委員我們大概在第一年補助在資安院的話我們在後續的相關的跟他所謂簽署補助契約條件的部分會把委員今天所 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11807.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11808.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
所以這個部分我們都會列入未來的KPI |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11832.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11849.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
目標二提到的推動友善的一個AI資安研發生態包含辦理這個技術交流材料的開發部分那這部分是不是有同樣有一個量化的一個達到的一個程度是這個也會就未來也會有一個量化的量化的一些指標跟數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11850.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11867.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
我想這個AI的一個網路主動防禦關鍵的技術研究這個是我們提升這個治安技術升級的很重要的一步但是現在既有的目標設定成果鏈結跟效益的一個量化本身還是認為還有加強的空間這部分請部長跟我們團隊繼續來努力謝謝委員提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11870.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11887.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
那最後我想剛剛我們很多委員都提到我們這個職場霸凌這個案子那我想這個也是行政院之前有一直有請相關部會一定要審慎處理的一個重要的一個作為那我想部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11887.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11887.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
謝謝委員謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11914.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11918.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
好謝謝許委員接下來有請蔡吉昌委員發言謝謝主席請黃部長黃部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11943.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11958.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
部長還是我們繼續就打詐的議題再跟你請教這個上一次本席已經提到這個執法我們要公告來實施本席上次質詢我也很關心說那是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11959.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11980.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
一月一號開始我們就可以開始對於實名制如果這些通路平台沒有做到我們就可以開始進行相關的這個處分那我又看到這個Meta宣稱明年一月底廣告代理商全面落實實名制 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11981.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12004.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
部長你有看到這個嗎有,他有跟我們討論那就是實際上是從這個月現在12月開始他是分成高風險、中風險跟低風險先從高風險的所謂的廣告的用戶開始執行實名制那廣告用戶的實名制這個一月底的意思就是說如果到一月底他還沒有辦法落實廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12006.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12031.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
用戶的實名制那訴發部要怎麼處理就開始進入那個我們的那個法規就是罰錢就罰則了嘛進入罰則這個數字啊這個是他們自己講的就我上一次我已經擔心了嘛你說1月1號我就跟你講1月1號甘做會搞你看他現在馬上跟你講1月底了嘛那我現在開始又先預測啦希望我的預測不要再審準一次到1月底他又說還沒準備好跟你說2月底 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12033.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12057.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
部長不能一拖再拖啦這個一定要確實這是他們自己講的喔那第二個部分啊那我們的廣告實名制啊我看一下我們這個這個政策上面啊是不是先從大型大公司開始做起還是說一月底開始只要任何的 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12059.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12074.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
這個上廣告在這些通路平台上面上廣告都要實名字不管你上廣告的公司大跟小一月底是所有的廣告只要是寫個贊助廣告這個贊助商都要經過實名字好所以除了大廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12075.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12100.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
就大的這些銀行那什麼之外任何只要你要做廣告的都要實名制只要上面寫個贊助廣告就是要實名制好那如果這樣的邏輯沒有抓大放小如果沒有抓大放小的話那換言之民眾從2月1號開始就不應該再看到這樣的事情對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12101.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12127.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
就是如果再有這樣的事情我們就可以溯源就應該是他們要先認證啦如果說他們認證不可能看到了嘛部長因為他要實名制嘛所以舉例嘛這個什麼你現在看到的這個這個是賣我們中華職棒假帽T的廣告嘛這個球迷每天都跟我檢舉啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12129.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12131.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
我覺得我在網路上呼籲沒什麼用我所以我來呼籲你 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12133.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12157.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
這是不是從2月1號才講,因為這個所謂磨曼頓這個沒有實名,這個就假的嘛,連磨曼頓這個都是假的。對,那個,報告委員,就是如果有這個廣告出現,因為它是實名制,所以我們一定可以找到賣廣告的這個人,那當然就可以把他繩之以緩。是嘛,就是不可能再出現,連找這個人都找不到嘛。你可以找到這個人,他就不敢登了嘛。這個邏輯就是這個意思嘛。所以這個, |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12160.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12166.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
明年二月一號我不希望再看到啦齁這個大家都講好數發部要有一點作為這個這個如果再出現的話這太離譜這個我們現在說實在話 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12170.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12170.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
委員會長 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12191.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12213.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
這個讓部長也看一下這個齁目前現在網路上很夯但是這個都是仿冒的都是假的啦齁都是仿冒的能不能出這個產品我都懷疑啦能不能真的拿到一件假冒的假的帽T我都懷疑齁好這是第一個啦齁我想先跟部長做一個溝通第二個啦這個我們網路詐騙通報的這個查詢網啊我們從10月14號就公測結束嘛對不對齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12220.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12244.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
那部長公測結束之後檢討起來優缺點是什麼那個就像這個委員的簡報講的就是第一個就是那個當初公測的時候雖然是一萬兩千人多人下載但是那個量就有一個人可以檢舉可能一次好幾百甚至好幾千件所以那個量的確很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12244.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12267.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
議員８ |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12267.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12295.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
通報超過將近到6萬件然後下架了15000件也就這個通報讓我們能夠及時下架1萬件的假廣告那確實有它的效果但是也是因為這樣關係所以那個可能是那個詐騙集團怎樣他們就會來做惡意的攻擊那攻擊包括包括上傳像像一些什麼有的沒的像色情網頁等等等這種東西我們也要自動處理所以就是說發現有一些可能還有就一個就是介面讓它更好用 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12296.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12310.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
所以這些都在更新中我們是希望這個更新完以後在12月底再去公測一次然後再看看這個是不是如果行政院通過我們就會正式上線好所以部長結論就是公測的結果你們覺得效果很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12312.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12334.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
但是有一些缺點這個缺點不一定是這個網路的缺點可能是對手可能會做什麼回應的缺點那我們會來加以改善所以部長我想請教那什麼時候可以再要再公測一次什麼時候要再上線目前我給團隊定的目標是12月底12月底就是說再三個禮拜吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12334.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12358.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
然後但是最後要不要再上就變正式版那要行政院測試通過所以我們現在也在安排好所以正式版你的預估大概什麼時候可以目前希望那就是明年第一季不過這個還是要行政院通過才可以我知道我知道前提都不用講我說你個人的主觀我個人是希望能夠在第一季但是這個這個有些condition就是好 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12358.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12385.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
那包括一些個資的問題這個都要一併處理因為我們也有接到一些反應說個資檢舉的個資容易在這裡被洩漏這些都要一併處理所以我想打詐就是我一直在講大概我就跟你講過第一次我們基本就跟你講大概在這個台上我只有速發部重中之重我每天看到你就會問打詐我會持續follow這些進度那我持續follow的目的就是要讓你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12387.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12412.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
我其實不是指責你們啦我希望一方面督促你們二方面也當你們的靠山啦讓所有的跟打詐有關的包括業者啦政府其他的部位都知道立法院對這個問題是非常的關心這個是人民心中的痛這個是台灣當前最大的社會問題之一啦所以我們要趕快來加以面對跟解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12413.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12429.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
所以對的事情比如說我剛剛講過這些實名制的這些廣告時間能提早要求業者的配合要落實不可以讓他們再這樣大家一起混啦反正過一天是一天第二個有用的東西像這個通報查詢網 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12431.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12456.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
公測完缺點改善再公測一次再缺點改善那就要趕快來實施如果行政院有困難我們立法院也可以質詢行政院所以我希望大家一併努力把這個事情做好好不好好謝謝部長謝謝委員的鼓勵謝謝好謝謝蔡委員接下來有請許智傑委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12467.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12481.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
謝謝主席。我們請部長。黃部長。部長好。部長你知道我要問什麼嗎?數位工 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12485.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12508.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
什麼時候可以做那個報告委員上次我們在那個台南開會嘛那一次開會就是我們就決定就是我們會先做規劃那我會申請經費這個我也跟國科會主委提過也給他一個規劃書那我們會申請科發基金很快就要進行先把規劃做出來然後再去看再去再去執行OK那個齁那一天市長有到我辦公室跟我 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12509.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12510.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
第二頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12541.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12563.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
我們數話部就是說為了提升國際海欄登陸站的韌性建設促進我國國際通訊基礎建設的韌性發展所以呢這個不是說我們還編了那個獎補助費嘛對不對還有五千多萬的海欄登陸站的那個補助費用所以相對的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12565.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12578.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
任重道遠如果我們先假設這個海南站通通不成立的時候我們國家會急嘛總不能沒有嘛阿如果都沒有人來的時候到底怎麼處理嘛所以我也先感謝一下就是我們書畫部就是在9月2號10月1510月22都有召開這個座談會 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12594.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12617.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
那我也有去參加過一場那基本上我為什麼一直這樣要求就是說這個對我們高雄來講非常的重要但是呢業者他如果通通不來或是他沒有主動來的時候啊這個國家任性建設又是關鍵基礎設施是不是速發部現在有 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12618.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12634.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
主動那也謝謝你們在開會的時候有7家國際海南的業者有來啦所以事實上書發部也蠻主動的我蠻感謝的但是最後就是巴士已經有一撇了那第二撇不知道什麼時候可以劃得成 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12635.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12662.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
這報委員就是剛剛講就是我們現在就是要做規劃案那規劃案就是我們由我們來主導那規劃案現在就是在經費方面我們現在就是要跟國科會申請課發基金這個也有跟國科會主委吳主委也有提過那我們現在正在進行這個工作只要這個經金下來我們就規劃規劃完以後剛剛就委員講的一些可能就是未來的營運啊未來的這個這個內容就會比較細部的規劃那這時候就再來再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12664.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12673.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
再來看下一步的工作也就是說還是要找到一個營運商來對江南縣好規劃就交給你們因為你們專業那我是希望說有沒有預計什麼時候可以有結果規劃的那個現在在申請嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12682.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12702.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
委員報告我們12月因為剛剛其實剛剛委員解釋的關鍵就是誰要來這八字的另外一撇現在重點是對於七家海南業者來講他們想要知道效益評估所以我們12月中會盡快召開因為把這個需求帶出來以後才能夠比較明確說明年 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12702.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12719.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
明年Q1因為我們同步已經在申請課發基金那明年Q1看至少有一個有一個initial有一個初步的一個確認因為需求要評估出來後這些海南業者才願意提出申請所以明年第一季希望有機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12721.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12748.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
那個OK先謝謝你們了就是12月現在已經12月了所以我們12月大概中旬我們大概20號前後我們會跟經濟部還有高雄市政府還有那個先把需求面把它研究出來我想我問了很多次了部長跟施展應該都很熟了就是說將來 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12750.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12760.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
需求面是看很遠嘛那你現在台灣的AI的硬體製造業我們現在是世界最強的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12761.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12779.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
未來AI的設計跟應用當然我是比較私心不過我們高雄的條件也真的比北部好所以將來這個高雄好好的發展這個AI的設計跟應用我們有機會變成全台灣最好的一個AI的城市 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12782.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12791.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
當然這個的基礎點就是這個海嵐站部長跟市長也都覺得很重要所以我再一次的強調我希望說我本來一直覺得誰去掛鈴鐺 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12795.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12817.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
您說台南業者私人公司我們也不方便去找那如果是用數位發展部用公開公平公正的方式然後呢又你看這裡又有補助那由數位發展部來做一個尋找跟照標是最好啦所以我是覺得我的結論是這個鈴鐺我們就掛在數位發展部身上 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12822.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12832.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
務必到最後能夠促成海南真的完成那部長有沒有這樣子一個侃奉的信心我們努力啦我們努力對 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12835.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12862.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
部長不敢說沒問題就是努力就是說我們還是就是規劃書出來就比較清楚到底是業者意願因為最終還是要有人去營運蓋完也會有人去所以我這幾個例子給部長參考我們鳳山火車站現在已經蓋好了那現在要招標要招商那如果台鐵公司的董事長跟我說我就努力招標但是如果標不出去的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12864.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12892.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
我那個地方空在那裏所以他不能說他要,他要跟我說他務必要完產那些地方如果沒有標出來是不會看的當然廠商有很多不同的考量他們當然要賺錢啦,料錢的生意沒人做啦那我鳳山其實好處就是我找了一個山井拉拉破進來但是呢他們就變成說將來還要跟那個拉拉破競爭所以變成廠商也會猶豫跟卻步 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12894.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12901.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
所以這個都是商場上的問題我們知道但是台鐵公司總不能告訴我說我努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12903.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12927.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
我剛才說你務必要完成啦 這個空在那裏是真的很難看 所以是務必要完成那部長既然認為這個真的是國家重大建設 這個也是整個國家跟城市發展的重要指標 這個東西如果沒有完成 那我們後續的不要說我高雄的AI首都啦 包括全台灣的AI啦 都會受到 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12928.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12942.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
議員８ |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12943.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12971.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
發言委員就是我剛才講就是說我們第一階段先把規劃弄出來然後規劃出來後再再來規劃交給專業規劃我們來規劃OK我只希望說有人願意把它單下來說我一定會努力到最後把它完成這樣子一個重責大難這個是國家不只是高雄這是國家AI基礎建設重要的一個項目我們務必要讓國家完成這個項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12972.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13001.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
我覺得規劃之後會有很多細節出來包括經費的需求等等等 這個出來後我們比較知道應該怎麼執行這樣部長我覺得你比較保守一點因為這個的確是一個大工程 所以我需要一些資訊來做這個所謂的commitment不過這個報告委員沒問題 我們會把這個東西一步一步把它做好你就說好了 我們會一步一步把它做到完成啦好不好我們努力努力不砸 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13003.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13019.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
政府說 部長我告訴你這是一個做部長的擔當啦今天我是許志杰是一個李偉夢你你才會這樣回答啦我上一次有問過部長一次今天賴金澤總統問他說啊部長你覺得這樣子努力到他完成為止你肯不肯 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13021.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13025.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
部長,其實我現在的脾氣很好。 我知道在亞洲我真的可以賺很多錢你知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13048.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13069.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
那個委員我們在我跟你講說我們一定會把這個先把規劃做出來以後再看後面怎麼進行那再跟委員做看怎麼樣安排再請委員支持這樣就是報告預算的爭取報告方面都需要再去努力這樣我們主席聽到就覺得愛笑我看保證今天不要說你做保證我做保證啦所以我不是來行的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13076.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13088.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
一個海南站在你的專業上有那麼困難嗎?推動一個海南站的登陸站,我如果說今天去全台都沒人設,我一定有付錢找到人來設。 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13089.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13089.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
委員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13108.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13127.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
好啦,一定給我完整,你就說這樣我就稍微完整了好不好,這個其實不是那麼困難的事,這個其實部長這個是一個政治擔當跟判斷我們會盡力的,這是好的事情,我們會盡力的這不要說你,這只要我許智傑,我如果做數位發展部長,我跟部長我一定會當完整的部長你就做到給我完整就對了,完整好啦,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13137.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13141.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
好謝謝許志傑委員也謝謝部長接下來請尤浩委員發言好謝謝趙偉謝謝主席那有請部長好我們請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13168.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13189.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
好 部長好 部長想直接先請教一下在今年7月的時候部長曾經公開的宣稱數位發展部要成立一個假訊息委員會那應該應面對網路上各式各樣的假訊息不實訊息那我想先請教部長這個委員會大家眾所期待進度如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13191.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13212.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
報告委員主要是我們想結合NGO的力量因為我覺得訊息的真假不應該由政府來判斷所以那時候我的這個想法是說我們會結合像我們現在有這個網路事實通報網路事實查核中心還有所謂這些NGO包括什麼Micro Pen我們是希望藉由這些民間力量對假訊息來做一個判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13213.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13233.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
但是最後要不要下架這展訊息還是需要有一個目的事業主導機關來跟我們講那我們就可以下架這樣好那所以說今天來講還是要針對假訊息或網路上的不實訊息來做一些處理嘛那到時候再做一個判斷那我們看一個圖那在這個圖我不知道這個部長你有沒有看過 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13234.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13245.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
在昨天的話有這樣子的一個訊息那我想請教一下部長像這樣子的一個圖啊一個梗圖啊那他這樣子是真的訊息還是假的訊息還是是屬於不實的訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13250.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13273.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
他上面有提到了零零總總因為南韓昨天在戒嚴嘛這個是全世界都在關注那這樣子的一個梗圖啊還沒有發揮人雞幾雞人膩幾膩關心國際情勢的這種擔憂的心情煩惡還在上面就寫啊百般刁難王逸川就職除了他沒有戴酒車旗之外應該也沒有什麼刁難到 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13275.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13288.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
為什麼很多訊息需要由NGO來判斷?因為這是個人的意見我想問一下像這樣子的訊息是不是就等於是一個模糊焦點或是一個不實訊息或是一個在操弄社會對立的一個訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13289.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13311.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
是不是如果是有違反違背這樣子的一個風氣的時候是不是就應該要有專業的一個機制來讓他下架對不對沒錯就是說為什麼不適合由政府來做判斷就是像這種訊息應該交由社會的那我想直接請教一下部長您看這樣的訊息在昨天那樣子的場合像這樣子一個梗圖是不是應該要下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13312.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13330.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
這個是個人言論自由個人言論自由對那所以說像這樣訊息的話其實在假訊息委員會來講的話是不用被審核不用下架的不是就是這個其實這是個人的意見所謂假訊息就是說他拿假內容的話是內容那是個人意見那你知道這個帳號是什麼帳號嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13333.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13359.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
好我跟你講這個就是立法院民進黨黨團帳號但他自己就下架了啦沒關係但是我還是要針對這個這樣子用小號發生張貼不實訊息那以及目前假訊息委員會的設置進度及業務分工以及就是未來來講要為社會帶來的這個就是實際上效益還是希望數發部可以在一個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13360.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13384.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
左右來跟交通委員會做一個進度上面的報告專案報告來讓我們對於假訊息的委員會能夠有更清楚的認知部長這樣可以嗎我就是會把我們的現在想法大概做個規劃不過就是剛剛講就是我這個所謂的委員會是指的是這個是一個NGO當一個組織那我們跟NGO都有談過所以我想就是用跟就是說一個訊息的出現應該有同時好幾個團體那沒關係部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13387.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13409.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
但是我希望在這過程中包括一個月左右的專案報告針對以這樣子的梗圖為例的一個假訊息委員會的進度那包括NCO的邀請那是要在社會是公正的那不是盡量避免這意識形態那我接著要就叫就是邀請我們的任性建設師市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13413.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13432.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
在今天我們其實看到部長他其實有為了訴發部的同仁跟士氣那也是跟大家做一個道歉我知道這部長其實是很希望我們部內大家的士氣能夠維護 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13433.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13459.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
那當然說在這個霸凌的一個行為來講在目前社會各界飽受檢討所以我知道師長其實你心裡很清楚所以我相信師長今天如黃建豪委員所說的您有出息還不像勞動部的分署長他選擇逃避那所以在這裡您的出息我相信您也是正面的面對啦那我實在個人是覺得啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13460.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13472.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
部長剛才的為了這個部分的道歉他也是為了您的道歉我覺得其實現在社會各界欠一個說法今天姑且不論調查報告13號才出爐我覺得針對這個事件來講我想請市長簡單的30秒做一個回應除了在 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13479.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13491.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
回應推給說調查報告我覺得其實就頓對著訴發部的同仁有看著部長來簡短的來回應不管是道歉也好或是回應也好請讓你30秒 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13494.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13507.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
接著就是我們剛剛說的生智檢討那我也部長你道歉我也是先要造成大家的困擾一定要先道歉對同仁非常的抱歉生智檢討接受調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13510.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13528.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
希望說這個部分能夠痛定思痛那因為我們不否認你對你們領域的專業但是我坦白講機關內大家必須還要上下一心那覺得延續剛才許志堅委員所提到的就是我翻到了我們這個預算書這個PTT的最後一頁那 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13530.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13558.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
在這個預算書上面所揭示的內容啊訴發部預算總說明他的重要施政追蹤管制考核的這個實施成果跟說明的部分我們看到了辦理總統副總統巡視指示及交班事項行政院重要會議決定決議事項及院長指示事項還有財政法人的管理監督那我想請問一下我們看了這個實施成果跟內容那我們也 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13559.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13581.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
翻了所有部會的預算書但是就只有訴發部他是把立法院跟民意的部分不列在管考的這個就是考核標準那我想請問一下部長這個要如何改進這個說明的部分那個是不是我想這個是說明的內容是不是再補充說明一下是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13586.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13596.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
總統或副總統這個巡視指示交辦事項這個我都知道蔡市長你很認真我知道我是說那立法院跟民意的部分為了不在數法部的管考內容之中 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13597.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13598.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
接下來的話本席針對我們看到這個軟體 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13616.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13640.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
就是目前司法院他們的員工有跟我們這邊陳情他是有強制在司法院的機關電腦來講必須用個人手機登錄以及包括跟這個他的系統做一個聯動那我想請問一下我們目前看到的這樣子的手機必須要登錄機關電腦以及使用這個APP那部長知道這個APP嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13642.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13657.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
我自己也有的IDExpert這個這個是不是這個有幾個單位有在用包括包括他這是強制的嗎就是多因子認證裡面這是一個一個管道那這個管道像像那個有些單位我知道有在用這樣的一個軟體 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13658.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13682.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
那這個部長您自己有在使用我自己在在我們的這個因為我個人在中研院的網站他也是用這個軟體所以我有在用那目前來講因為時間已經到了那司法院的同仁他有跟我們這邊陳情啊那他是說這個是是不是能夠達到這個個資的標準以及包括在技術上的防護都能夠不被竊取個資尤其他們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13683.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13703.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
公司如果用這個登錄之後他們聯動的個人手機包括他們的通訊軟體的通話訊息會被做一個聯動甚至在技術上是不是安全因為司法院他必須被要求使用這個APP的時候也表示著包括未來地檢署調查站等等他們也是會被要求還用這樣子的一個系統APP |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13704.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13726.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
那我本期在這裡還是建議就是部長能夠簡單的回應啊因為司法體系調查體系對這個APP的要求使用他們對技術上的質疑到底是這樣子的房屋是堅若磐石嗎還是說會不會被駭客攻擊的時候變成以卵即死那我在想在這個使用上的技術是不是部長簡單回應就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13728.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13747.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
這個IDExpert就像講他是用這些我們所知道的像FIDO啦這些OTP的技術就是說當然系統implementation有沒有漏洞又不是很清楚但是他用的標準他用的機制是OK的所以我想這個還是可以再進一步去評估就是了 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13747.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13775.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
所以不會被駭客入侵?就是說如果他的implementation畢竟軟體是人寫的嘛如果軟體是不是夠安全這個因為不是很清楚但是他現在所講的這個不管是FIDO或是OTP這個是現在所謂的多因子認證常用的標準所以這個標準是OK但是在所謂的這個軟體的產生過程中是不是有其他漏洞這個是因為是全景的軟體我就不清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13775.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13777.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
接下來我們請鍾嘉斌委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13814.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13825.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
主席、在場委員、先進、列席政府計畫上官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體、記者、女士、新生。又請我們速發部黃部長還有主計處的李處長和人事處的莫處長。好,請部長、處長。好,那我要 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13841.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13863.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
好部長好兩位處長好我今天不要提呢短期專案補足政府治安能力定期公佈非實名制廣告平台來我們看一下部長既然我們政府的治安能力不足為什麼高考只開11名缺我看一下目前我們中央跟地方的缺額是239個但是呢提報值卻只提報11個結果不到200人來考什麼原因部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13868.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13876.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
簡單的說,我直接問你啦,為什麼?是因為我們公部門待遇低嗎?你們現在是不是有要求給專業加給跟績效獎金了?合訂了沒?簡單,好時間有限好,報告委員因為這個考試公布是12月28號你簡單告訴我有沒有幫助? |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13887.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13892.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
政府加薪拚得過民間搶財嗎?美國的AI工程師年薪超過970萬那一般的AI工程師在台灣也有大概300萬差不多平均月收入是25萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13912.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13937.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
我看你們考試院你們現在找的這些人我把名字調出來若是資安人員或資訊人員大概最頂到九萬或八萬八能比嗎部長你覺得這樣的就算加了專業家籍跟技巧養精有辦法搶得過人嗎確實是一個問題那怎麼辦怎麼解決這個是一個來我們來看一下現在公安部資安人員人體多少是不是剛剛那個數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13938.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13947.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
8萬9萬那跟明天下一題那月薪有10萬嗎?愛芳就像業界為什麼原因你知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13949.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13972.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
因為我們現在政府用的是怎樣?以質蓄心啊!如果你是師長階層的檢任12職等就12萬5你是科長的9職等的就8萬多以此類推也就是說你們的編制是什麼職缺來的人又什麼薪水是不是這樣子為什麼請人事跟主計來就要請他們幫忙講啊你們兩位處長趕快過來告訴他是不是以質蓄心政府用的是以質蓄心 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13973.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13999.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
沒有錯我們趕快趕快因為時間的關係往下看但是呢美國呢軍方很特別啊軍方他們需要這些資訊人才他們叫什麼以薪敘職啊你在民間多少錢我就用多少錢挖你這個錢如果相當於少校你進來就當少校這個錢現在進來是相當於少將你就是當少將部長你覺得如果我們要資安人才我們可以參照美國以薪敘職嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
14002.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
14005.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
美國的做法我們沒辦法做 那往下來怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
14013.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
14033.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
你們現在做了大概三種一個是用正職或約聘僱那他就是以職續薪加上加給有薪酬上限但是呢可以直接執行另外一種就委外外包廠商包去做另外一種呢就是什麼承攬找人來找學界來找學來承攬委辦然後呢他就寫個研究報告他不能執行沒有薪資上限 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
14034.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14054.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
除了這三種方法有沒有其他方法可以解決我們有那個法人像治安院他信了治安院就是委外啊他能夠職業執行嗎要搖頭到底是不是治安院是不是委外還是承攬治安院是我們的行政法人所以基本上也是半個政府主席他的心智也這樣有上限嘛可以追得上民間的標準嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14056.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14056.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
接下來談打詐 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14069.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14096.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
儘管會說詐騙管道都是來自社群平台其中臉書跟meta加起來市占率四分之三但是呢詐騙廣告占了關係90%有將近6萬件嚴不嚴重嚴重對那你們怎麼做我在我報告裡面講過我們現在就是第一個要落實廣告實名制再來這就是廣告實名制的結果會杜絕很多這種假、詐騙很好所以呢我們立法院我質詢了13次我們跟行政院通過了4個法對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14098.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14117.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
所以你們就說停止非實名制下廣告這是誰做的這一第一槍趙鋒晶開了第一槍是不是對有沒有效果有Meta說什麼訴發部說Meta承諾1月前百分之百落實實名制是不是這樣子對真的會落實嗎我們等著看喔身份驗證百分之百落實好接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14118.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14133.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
可是除了沒啥之外未落地的網路平台怎麼納管抖音這裡面有詐騙有毒品有色情小紅書三方詐騙點數卡淘寶也有淘寶小紅書抖音有落地嗎沒有落地沒有落地你怎麼管 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14138.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14161.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
我們現在這個第一個先處理剛剛講的這個投資詐騙廣告這些大概就是都是那是在有平臺有落地的平臺你可以要求他對不對那沒有落地的平臺怎麼辦怎麼納管也是一樣一個月提一個對應方案可以嗎可以那個這個就是我們就是事業主管機關要我們做網路停止解析我們就會解析好頭目停止解析那是色情 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14162.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14181.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
所以除了同步停止解析之外我都猜得到你要做什麼了還有哪些對策其實網路平台如果實名制廣告其實就有很大的影響因為越多非實名制的你下單你的廣告容易受詐騙所以其實業界民間自發性的要求去抵制要非實名制他不下廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14182.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14207.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
這個請你們定期公佈好不好你們定期公佈那些非實名制的廣告平台以及這平台的詐騙數量供民間參考廣告主自己做決定他要不要持續在這些沒有落地的或非實名制的平台他要不要繼續投放廣告我們讓這個市場力量來發揮機制可不可以以後定期做這個事情可以嗎定期公佈非實名制廣告網路平台及各網路平台的詐騙案件各樣數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14208.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14233.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
讓所有的廣告主知道你不要浪費錢在那些民間通販廣告不但無效而且助長詐騙好不好今天用三個決議兩個報告怎麼樣招攬人才怎麼樣未納管這些未落地的平台未納管錢你怎麼處置以及最後定期公佈好不好部長可以嗎可以好謝謝好謝謝中央兵委員謝謝部長接下來我們請楊瓊英委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14242.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14244.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
謝謝主席 陽泉發言 邀請部長 請部長 委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14251.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14270.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
議長好,我們要討論出國的計畫編列,你在這個今年度是編列了2220萬4千元那你在113年現在呢是3133萬6千元所以相對你比今年度跟明年度呢你是明年度減了913萬2千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14272.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14281.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
但是我們去細看這裏面到底是怎麼回事因為112年的出國計畫是1408萬6千元你的決算是1342萬9千元達成率是95.30%比原先編列的出席重要的你在這個裏面相關活動裏頭跟重要會議裏頭總共是23項但是你的執行結果有6項他沒有執行的在你總共23項的26.09% |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14302.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14314.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
那在新增的最奇怪的是你竟然原來的不執行而新增的呢那麼未列預算的部分你有九項那你有九項包就等於是在23項裡頭的百分之四十四成 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14318.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14323.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
為什麼預算會這樣子編列還會這樣子執行呢請做說明這個違反預算法欸立法院三讀通過的預算你竟然有的你不執行沒有的你可以去執行這個邏輯怎麼這麼奇怪啊這到底是什麼重要的事項啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14340.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14345.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
不執行表示你的預估是有問題的那你沒有編列的你有9項增加欸你可以隨便這樣增嗎?可以如此嗎?這個你有辦理追加嗎?要怎麼做? |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14358.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14374.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
預算部門再請國際事務記者說有些計畫沒有執行的部分是因為原本有一些國際會議要去參與那我們的外交有問題囉還是人家不邀請我們還是我們自己不去參加 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14375.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14393.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
我們要去參加那只是說有些地區因為可能有些簽證的問題過不了就是臨時有問題所以就沒辦法做那你在編列預算當時我們還審預算那個騙立法委員喔跟委員報告對不對因為很多個國際活動他這個問題你們去精心那你沒有的竟然會增加9項怎麼回事呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14394.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14415.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
委員報告就是因為有些計畫在編列預算的時候因為112年在編列計畫的時候數位發展部丁寧成立所以我們是參考以往的編列方式去編列這個邏輯更奇怪注意聽部長你請回部長編列的預算沒有辦法執行沒有編的竟然可以去執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14417.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14437.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
我們政府的預算是經過立法院三讀通過送請行政院單位來執行之對不對怎麼可以這樣子亂搞呢亂來還剛剛回答的是說依照前年度那你們都沒有在精進部長依你的看法可以如此嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14438.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14444.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
可以這麼做嗎?內部檢討部長還好你來一個內部檢討不然我們覺得太驚訝了怎麼可以這是一個公務預算怎麼可以隨便你要怎麼做就怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14457.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14469.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
當然不行你要好好地去檢討來本席請你把檢討的方案給本席那本席跟你討論的114年裡頭你的民主網絡的連結跟這個這個是從113年1月份1月5號核定那總經費是7.8億你分4年度但是我們看到113年你編列的3.39億呢你到8月份我給你做統計只有14.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14485.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14493.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
部長,這怎麼辦?這怎麼辦?這怎麼辦?委員報告,那個有關於質詢率會比較慢的原因是因為整個專案是比較新所以他有很多利害關係者在做協調什麼專案新不新這不是邏輯,你請回部長我要請你再一次聽清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14511.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14525.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
這個預算是你們編出來的不是因為新他的年度到了只有完成率不到兩成你可以接受這樣的成效嗎部長你可以接受嗎請你告訴我當然不行所以要檢討趕快去經濟因為他是113年到116年以下的回答本席不希望聽到這種言語因為是新的你數發布是新的單位當然是新的政策新的計畫嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14539.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14562.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
對不對怎麼可以如此的回答呢不負責任的回答這個計畫裡面有好還好你說不行所以執行率到現在8月份14.5趕快去精進人民需要接下來在一個議題深化政府資通訊的應用建設裡頭本席覺得非常的奇怪預算給沒有問題但是你在測試的結果審計部113年4月20號給你的是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14567.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14591.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
你發現你的連結網址失效的有118337筆但是你自己書發部說你失策的連結只有380筆哇那個差距部長差距多少45倍那我們政府經過公開資訊的可用性這麼低花了這麼多錢那到底誰在造假 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14593.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14594.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
審計部已經告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14617.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14621.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
一萬多筆。你們說380筆。差距45倍。李全惠部長這個要不要精進啊?你說的休息現在的時間科技資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14633.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14653.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
對 這個這個失效這麼需要你把它關掉對失效的原因我們會再檢討不過剛剛講就是說你要維護期間關掉一些這個網站是大家都在做的事情那只是說這個數字到底現在還剩多少我們測完以後再跟委員做個報告到現在還不清楚審計部已經告訴你了審計部告訴你這一萬多筆因為你的落差45倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14659.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14675.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
請把正確的方案精進出來不要再粉飾太平審計單位已經告訴你了你還不精進 對不對你要看怎麼樣方案不要讓人民這麼痛苦趕快去精進多久時間告訴本席你的精進方案一個禮拜趕快加油 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14690.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14690.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
委員、部長、首長 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14720.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14721.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
謝謝主席,有請黃部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14729.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14752.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
謝謝部長我想數位信任很重要啦也希望全民可以信任數發部那我想我還是非常感謝我仔細閱讀了你們相關的這個過去一年所做的事跟相關的計畫在相關的資安跟技術上我覺得是有精進有不錯的成果先予以感謝那但是有幾個議題還是想要來就教一下想請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14753.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14773.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
在新的計畫書裡面呢你們有這個MOCN的預算是5.6億那低軌衛星是編了1.7億但是你們在第15頁的時候自己講了其實用所謂的傳統的這個5G的網路或者一般的電信基地台重大災難發生的時候可能會有部分的業者失效 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14774.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14782.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
那全球現在都在佈建低軌衛星但是我們反而MOCN的預算竟然是他的將近三倍這個規劃您知道嗎?您同意嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14783.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14785.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
這個請司長在這邊做個說明謝偉文我看這技術是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14807.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14824.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
現在三大業者並沒有用這個合成的這個技術所以他需要一些資本支出所以這個六億我們需要重新建對但是現在全世界都在限低軌衛星啊就你們現在是在補足多網路的跨網路我知道啊可是這個合不合邏輯啊部長有沒有理解過 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14826.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14841.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
我們看了各國都是低軌衛星支出開始高於傳統的網路就算你是多網路是對吧衛星只有Mega級的流量那那你救災的時候你是要怎麼樣你要下載兩G上傳兩G嗎不是吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14843.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14845.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
二、新增1億計畫新增AI網路主動式防禦關鍵技術研究計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14870.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14893.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
兩頁的內容有什麼具體產出用什麼技術誰還執行一億要弄出30位資安人才這個部長知不知道你能不能簡要的回答第一個這個因為深圳市AI用深圳市AI來做網路防禦是一個新的發展那我們這個計畫是委託這個會做一套自己的系統嗎委託誰會外包嗎是資安院嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14897.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14918.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
那就是資安院執行就不用開標案了然後訓練30位人才然後產出會產出一套自己的軟體嗎用的是什麼樣的AI用的是什麼樣的技術已經確定了嗎還是需要額外的報告我跟委員報告一下這個是委託由資安院來執行那我們會內部我們沒有在委外 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14919.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14920.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
謝謝謝謝您可以在旁邊部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14938.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14956.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
書面上就是寫30位你不要現在來了突然變150然後到底是採用什麼技術講清楚這是一億的計畫好不好往後面所以能不能提出報告再提出來多久可以給細節一點的或者你們內部的計畫分享一下好不好我們提報告給委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14957.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14975.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
人民的錢一週內可以吧因為這個預算你都編進去啊好不好好再來資安事件啊現在有非常多監理站詐騙也提醒所有的民眾連我們辦公室助理都收到而且是怎麼樣他剛被開完罰單結果就收到哦就收到監理站繳罰還的詐騙的信件哦 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14979.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14997.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
請問訴發部這邊有沒有收到監理站的這個結果上網一查一大堆人被騙11月10號就是11月一堆監理站各種方面而且都是那種剛收到交通罰單沒多久就收到這個繳費的詐騙的簡訊有沒有監理站或交通的單位有沒有跟你們通報 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14998.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14999.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
我們目前沒有收到通報吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
15024.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
15039.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
目前沒有嘛對不對這個消息已經都在網路上了民眾都非常的恐慌可不可以麻煩一樣多久以內一週好不好這個詐騙快一點瞭解一下有或沒有就好然後我們來看一下說我們能幫什麼忙 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
15040.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
15059.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
再來111的短碼破功啦我想各位應該也知道這個消息了當然我知道短碼是一個好的做法但是有沒有解決方案結果呢我們看短碼有問題gov.tw可能也有問題這個到底我們在防詐上面應該要如何做我是希望應該要 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
15060.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15075.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
更多的落實你們有很多跨部會的預算更多的落實合作資安打詐這一題我就之後有機會再交流因為時間有限了資安人力短缺也麻煩注意一下剛剛的這個中加兵委員有提到以新續職 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15076.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15099.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
這個方向我們也是覺得是從阿宅的角度來看也是認同所以希望這個部分呢也予以去了解那資安的人力的培育也要增加啦什麼11個啦30個啦150啦我覺得都是遠遠不夠其實你們預算是很充足的希望能夠補足資安人力增加流財的誘因最後我想請教部長一件事近期通查網 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15101.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15127.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
算是不小心提前下架了啦那雲端發票還有很多政府機關的數位的平台大家都有點擔心可能會有不被信任的問題所以我想訴發部應該要帶頭被信任而不是帶頭被不信任啦所以我想請教部長請教部長這個題很認真知通系統的外包是否需要做外包廠商的適任性查核 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15128.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15129.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
連查核都是外包啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15157.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15179.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
事任性查核抱歉我在問的是事任性查核抱歉部長我跟你溝通一下這是你們資通安全管理法的施行細則資通安全管理法裡面就算你們內部請資安院來做或者你們內部來做都要有公務人員的事任性查核不能有不適任的人來做我們的資通系統這是第一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15180.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15205.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
第二點連外包廠商都應該要有私人性的查核這是你們的資通安全管理法我們目前認為而且資通系統的定義對不起講得非常清楚這是資通安全法第三條第一項用於資料的收集控制傳輸儲存流通刪除資訊或對資訊進行其他處理使用或分享系統等於幾乎所有的資訊系統在外包上都應該要做私人性查核請問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15206.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15231.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
有沒有做啊那個我的了解是對所謂機敏系統要做查核各位委員差不多好抱歉所以這個是你們的法條要修就去修這不是機敏系統喔所以請帶頭守法落實適任性的查核關於這一點我希望內部也做個討論然後呢我們雙方來交流好嗎好謝謝謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15233.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15235.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
好,謝謝給盧君委員、謝謝部長跟各位這個首長接下來我們請侯孟楷委員發言來,麻煩主席請我們數位部黃部長來,黃部長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15263.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15286.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
來黃部長道高一尺磨真的可以高一丈嗎我們數位部不管一年幾十億預算或是一開始的時候聯同前瞻計畫有上百億的預算說實在話要人給人要錢給錢我們也希望是說能夠真正做到詐騙的一個防詐的一個功能那但是本席會這樣問是因為111政府簡訊平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15290.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15297.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
去年10月當時的唐鳳部長講說明年1月也就是2024年正式上線設三關卡賭詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15301.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15324.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
那時候把111當成是救世主一樣就是說這一個簡訊代碼一出來之後政府之間的詐騙不會有了而且有三關卡來組詐騙然後還講是說趕快供股行庫都加入協調防詐結果不到一年時間欸真的不到一年欸從今年1月開始正式上線到現在10月多11月來 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15328.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15345.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
新聞就出來了嘛就破貨詐騙集團政府的簡訊一一有假然後被詐團破解2G發送來他用兩個看起來我不知道這算是精不精密啊但看起來我覺得這蠻土法煉鋼的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15347.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15375.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
就這樣子兩台機器不大就可以把我們政府過去花了多少錢那麼多數位科技人才的速發部做出來的111簡訊給破解然後發送繳費假訊息再來我們新聞台做連線報導那他發送什麼樣的訊息我想這跟我們剛剛好幾位委員共同關心的不管是有什麼政府的繳費 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15376.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15405.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
收費等等因為他等於是他就利用假借政府的名義嘛那那個時候大家看到是說111覺得是說啊就安心了看到111傳來就是可以點開放心了結果不是這麼回事來部長我給你機會時間說明一下到底是我們想得太天真還是把詐騙集團想得太白癡還是我們自己真真正正根本不了解說現在環境多麼兇險以為推出一個東西就可以天衣無縫結果不到一年就被破解 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15405.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15435.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
來 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15435.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15447.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
我們看一下所以我們這個新聞出來也快兩三個禮拜了對不對對那我們現在統計到底有多少民眾接到這個集團被詐騙所以二級手機目前現在統計多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15448.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15449.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
所以現在到底有多少被詐騙? |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15476.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15493.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
二級手機目前還有在用的應該不多但是我沒有數字但是沒有數字所以看到現在這樣的一個狀況沒有數字好本席再請教不管是我們速發部有推出的一個通報網或者是現在我們刑事警察局有所謂的這個打債儀表板對不對詐騙是大幅的成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15497.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15524.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
尤其是去年跟今年的一個數字相比他真的是完全大幅提升甚至那個數字可以差到三倍四倍統計的方式不同但不管怎麼樣那就代表是什麼代表兩個部分一個就是過去的統計是埋在沙子裡面把頭埋在沙子裡面我假裝沒有這個數字我就以為沒有這個詐騙但現在的數字如果說你要說統計的數字不同的話那代表就是現在比較還原真實的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15526.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15538.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
以前可能美化這個數字可能讓這個數字感覺相對來講比較有差汁抹粉那現在沒有啊所以才會說我們現在看到說一年一個月有高達百億的一個詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15541.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15559.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
報告委員,我們負責防詐這一部分,主要是針對所謂的廣告平台商的這些詐騙從廣告平台商的詐騙我們開始進行一些機制包括實名制以後,我們目前看到的確在假廣告的詐騙有下降90%以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15561.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15586.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
因為詐騙是有階段性的比如說養套殺所以如果你在前端讓詐騙警察不要接觸到詐騙訊息被養的就會減少那這個效果應該在未來幾個月會出現也就是說我們認為現在民眾接觸到詐騙因為我們在前端做防詐的工作確實有減少而且從數字上我們看到減少但是這個整個金額的數目目前看到統計是後面是可能是三個月或甚至六個月前 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15586.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15613.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
部長他絕對不是單一部會的議題我同意因為這個也是過去到現在我們一直要求的就不是要各部會互踢皮球就是說你踢我我踢你到最後這個負責的變成是說就反正是員警的責任也不是嘛所以說我們要從源頭管理源頭阻止源頭把關來讓詐騙的犯罪成本提高高到是說他認為是他根本不合算他就不會想要來詐騙了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15614.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15643.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
對不對對所以源頭我們這邊看到有在減少所以應該在未來幾個月好所以之前我也一直很關心喔時間也有限但是我一直很關心就所謂的六大平台你們現在廣告實名制的部分現在到底進度如何現在Google跟Line已經落實實名制了從這個月開始那那個像那個Facebook對他答應在從現在開始實施了從高風險他已經答應我們在1月底前會全面實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15643.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15662.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
一月底以前臉書、IG、TRADE他們是整個母公司嘛一月底以前可以全部實施廣告的實名制所以說到時候我們看到不管是假冒什麼某某某名人假冒什麼投資社 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15662.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15682.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
他下面一定都會有實名制一定會有一個帳號投入那所以說如果說他是詐騙的也可以循線順藤摸瓜去找到後面的用戶刊登的廣告那後到時我們有任何的一個詐騙的一個罰則也都可以來做處罰那這一個人他有可能是國內還國外 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15684.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15705.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
當然就是說他若是實名制的時候他這個他必須確認這本人的ID嘛這個當然投放廣告可以在國外但是就是說至少你可以回溯在到這個真正的人那如果是國外的話那當然就是要藉由這個部長那要不要部長這樣子有沒有聽到我覺得還是會有漏洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15707.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15733.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
如果說他現在是用國外的帳號就像之前一直講我們說為什麼詐騙的機房放在的是他機房放在的是東南亞他為什麼放在東南亞就是因為他們可能在東南亞有些機房然後打電話來台灣來做詐騙然後再由台灣的車手他們等於是犯罪集團不同分工那如果說你今天這樣子實名制的話你會不會一樣是他可能機房一樣是在東南亞其他國家裡面來做投放廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15733.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15757.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
有一些廣告像投資金融的廣告那個就要是國內的人才能夠下廣告這是Facebook會跟我們合作那至於還有一些因為金融詐騙現在在投資上面大概佔了80%所以那是最大源頭先把這個堵住那至於說其他的詐騙廣告我們經過國際刑警的互助將來也希望在這邊能夠很快的去杜絕部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15757.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15776.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
但本席提出來這個問題既然我們都認為可以從源頭管理來減輕增加犯罪成本減輕犯罪的一個樣態跟狀況的話就請你好好的溝通那既然可以金融廣告他一定是要在國內才有辦法投放的話那其他廣告應該也要比就相關詐騙廣告應該比較辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15778.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15778.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
委員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15801.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15813.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
對我們來講我們主管機關的責任跟功能就是要告訴他即便是有錢賺你也不能賺因為這個就是非法的錢這個就是詐騙集團的錢這個就是投入之後會增加犯罪風險的錢是吧完全同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15815.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15833.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
麻煩再請一月底你剛剛有講到一月底的時候這幾個這個平台的部分會有相關實名制的一個規劃是不是可以給書面資料給本席好不好謝謝謝謝侯孟楷委員謝謝部長接下來請吳春成委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15846.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15848.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
有請黃部長我今天要來謝謝你因為壯世代政策與產業發展促進法在本週一已經出了委員會是在立法上跨出一大步 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15869.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15890.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
那在這裡這個訴發部為壯士代開先鋒做了一個很好的示範在兩週前我們的資訊月有做了一個壯士代董資樂園用一種創新的方式讓過去都叫做 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15891.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15893.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
希望這個成功的經驗可以作為未來我們的參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
15914.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
15942.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
那為什麼講這個壯世代董事樂園用創新模式在這裡其實在各方面包括從立法院多數的委員都對這個議題的認知肯定還有在民間大量的這個高齡解放運動支持的壯世代也風起雲湧包括我們的院長左奎在兩個禮拜之前行政院會之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
15943.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
15964.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
所發的新聞稿也是肯定要讓壯士來持續貢獻社會所以這個速發部走在這一個潮流打先鋒因為這個禮拜一這個在審議的過程當中還是遇到了現在執政黨的立委很多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
15965.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
15986.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
很多的阻擾說不懂這個壯時代是什麼壯時代的定義是什麼反正提了很多後來我覺得用CHAPTER GTP去問一下去問一下我覺得這個很好我覺得是不是數位發展部可以開發一下問證諮詢的立法問證諮詢提升我們的問證品質 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
15990.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
16008.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
大家問的問題實在是太可笑了幼稚般的我念一下CHEP GDP你只要問一下壯世代到底想要做什麼他就定義非常清楚他說壯世代是指55歲到臥床前這個概念直接挑戰了傳統對年齡的看法尤其對退休以後的階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
16009.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
16039.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
非常的重要他提倡的不再是60歲市委人生的終點而是另外一個充滿可能的新起點所以醫療進步人類說明延長這個年齡層依然有體力智慧和資源去追求目標探索興趣甚至重新投入事業貢獻社會創世代不僅是一個詞語更是一種價值觀的倡導他幫助我們重新看待年齡生命力和社會的角色為每個人提供積極的框架創世代核心精神第一個是延續活躍的生活第二個是健康與自主 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
16039.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
16053.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
這個其實他很多啦他會創造回應我們的社會例如勞動力不足、輸入力下降的問題讓中資在發揮他們的潛力對整個社會這種雙贏的局面等等這種AI的智慧喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
16054.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
16056.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
來開發一下 這個可以節省我們國會 我們國家很多 不然大家花太多的時間老是討論問題 問政品質不高 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
16078.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
16085.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
好所以呢我還是回到這裡就這一次的諮詢業因為用了壯士代的董茲樂園有規劃了展場跟AI有關那這一個跟這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
16094.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
16117.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
是不是因為他可以提供裝飾在第三人生不僅是促進中年轉職的機會或者促進中生學習第三人生大學的推動或者是整個多元化的共同都有很多很肯定的幫助所以是不是可以請求這個訴發部是不是可以一個月之內就以上的四個面向能夠提出報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
16119.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
16120.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
好的,謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
16146.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
16149.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
好謝謝吳孫生委員謝謝部長那我們接下來請葉元之委員發言麻煩請部長謝謝好請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
16168.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
16187.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
市長先請教一下之前速發布大力宣傳的台灣雲市集所謂的點線面平台現在還存在嗎我們那個雲市集主要是給中小企業我知道我現在是問的點線面平台現在還存在嗎還存在效果怎麼樣現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
16190.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
16206.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
效果有多少店家加入6萬8千家6萬8千家那這樣算6萬8千家有加入這個外送平台所以民眾可以透過LINE綁定然後去跟這些6萬8千家訂餐是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
16210.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
16235.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
我知道我們上架的這個支付的系統然後另外8家的中小企業去用不是啦我在問點線面平台你直接回應我好不好因為那時候你們宣傳的是說如果參加這個台灣雲市集然後一般的民眾如果叫外送的話可以用來綁定嘛不用排隊嘛而且經濟部還有補助嘛所以有多少家餐廳加入這個外送平台服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
16235.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
16238.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
就是6萬8千6萬8那你覺得多還是少你覺得多還是少這有達到你們預期的目標嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
16247.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
16276.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
欸部長為什麼都不回答這是旁邊第三個人跟第二個人解釋然後你就躲在旁邊我現在是在質詢部長還是在質詢部長為什麼問這東西因為這個東西是你們數位發布當時一直在宣傳的嘛也被社會廣泛討論啊結果你對於這個業務完全一竅不通還要叫別人來提醒你然後提醒你的那個人自己也不清楚還要叫第三個人來提醒那當初你宣傳這個點線平台在宣傳假的喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
16276.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
16302.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
你有在追蹤這個後續的效果嗎那個雲世紀這個project我care是上面上層這個你們當時宣傳的就是這個點線面平台嗎社會大眾關心的是你們這個東西當初講了後續嘛沒關係啦你之後再補資料給我現在感覺是好像你完全沒有掌握狀況所以當時講了放一把火就沒事了還叫經濟部補助一堆錢然後有沒有效果你也現在搞不清楚狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
16303.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
16305.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
那個時候因為我們都知道隔幾天周杰倫演唱會就要開始了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
16318.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
16333.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
周杰倫演唱會黃牛票非常嚴重當時你們前部長唐鳳部長說只要數位簽章把過關的話有通過的話可以解決黃牛票的問題我想請教一下現在這個部分進度到哪裡了 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
16335.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
16352.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
市民制不是問題現在是說執行單位要不要用市民制沒有他不是這樣講的喔他的講法是說因為現在黃牛票很多人會用機器人掃票所以如果電子簽章法有過的話到時候這些機器人掃票他也必須要提供電子簽章所以會加強他就會 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
16353.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
16358.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
拜託委員這個都可以執行現在問題是在說執行單位在收票就是你驗票要進來驗票然後增加的成本我現在講的是機器人 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
16375.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
16391.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
拜託不要一直岔開話題唐鳳講的就是機器人掃票他講的是說如果你機器人掃票的話你如果不需要提供這些姓名沒有電子簽帳的話那他就可以隨便提供很多個資就可以去買了但是如果說有電子簽帳的話就會增加難度這是唐鳳講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
16393.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
16420.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
對,所以跟什麼你要不要進去那個無關我現在講的是第一階段機器人掃票的部分你不要一直扭曲我的問題好不好我的問題那麼簡單請問一下電子簽贓法如果現在已經通過了嘛那有一年的日落條款嘛那請教一下等可以做到唐鳳的那樣杜絕黃牛票要到什麼時候要到什麼時候但是那個就是賣票的單位不願意做不是對,是這樣子就是確實這樣子所以現在立刻可以是不是現在立刻可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
16420.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
16434.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
現在那個技術現在只要現在只要你的意思是說現在只要賣票單位願意接受的話立刻可以做就可以執行不那跟電子簽商數位簽商法無關跟數位簽商法無關是這個意思很多技術不電子簽商可以是其中一個技術其中一個那當時唐鳳為什麼要這樣瞎掰我講的是他講的話欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
16437.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
16462.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
是他講說到時候數位簽證法過關的話黃牛票問題也可以通過這種方式解決而且他已經跟文化部在討論這他講的結果你現在打臉他你說跟那個沒關阿其實有很多技術可以解決只要賣票單位可以接受話都給你們講就好了阿主要是看售票單位那他為什麼這樣講嗎技術是在我講的是唐鳳講的話唐鳳講的話你就不認了啦反正錢鈔現在都跟你們無關第三個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
16465.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
16493.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
你們現在到底跟六大平台的關係怎麼樣現在就是有密切的密切合作那之前為什麼會出現很多財經的網紅他們被下架為什麼那個上次我已經解釋過那個是內部是Facebook的Meta內部作業的問題所以跟我們數話部無關那有白名單這種事情嗎白名單也不是我們提供的那誰提供的這個不清楚不清楚對但是不是我們數話部提供的 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
16494.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
16523.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
那你們數位發展部平常跟他們都怎麼溝通我們都是叫他下架對我們如果看到假廣告被我們掃描出來或是民眾報案我們就叫他下架那我們是叫他下架哪一些廣告但是那個上次那個事件是內部他們那個Meta內部在作業的我的了解是他們作業內部作業的錯誤造成這些下架但是這個跟數位發展部我們沒有發任何文沒有發任何訊息給他們要求他們做在這個事情上做任何事情這個已經在媒體上沒有用 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
16524.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
16542.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
有公布對好謝謝好謝謝葉院司委員謝謝部長那我們接下來請黃國昌委員發言呃謝謝主席麻煩有請部長來請部長好好委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
16552 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
16557.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
部長好 延續上一次的主題你們數位部也好 數發部也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
16558.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
16583.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
推了很多計畫然後那個計畫的內容我上次問你兩年砸了3億要數位婦人推動銀髮世代社會連結計畫那到底具體的成效是什麼我請你們會後給我資料你們會後給我的資料不好意思部長我講的比較直接一點一堆官樣文章一堆官樣文章 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
16584.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
16610.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
我們以前啊在大學的時候我相信部長經驗也很豐富啊大家審過非常多的計畫什麼是官樣文章啊什麼是有具體的成效其實我們大家都讀得出來內行人不要講外行話但讓我生氣的是什麼讓我生氣的事情是我諮詢完以後結果你們數位部很厲害啊很厲害啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
16611.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
16626.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
處理的方式這個計畫點擊率慘不能讀乾脆把它遮掩掉這個是誰下的決定啊是部長下令的嗎不好意思一個問題一個問題第一個誰下令把它拿掉的是我們的內部人員在你們內部人員權力這麼大喔那當然是有跟我報告所以你同意是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
16640.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
16669.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
我同意是因為那個這個因為我們有4000多個資訊那當然就是我們8有超過8萬人次來來來4000多個資訊有超過8萬次8萬人次好8萬人次吧對對平均每一個資訊多少人次數學沒有那麼難啊4000多個資訊有8萬人次但是這個報告委員這個沒辦法平均因為有些訊息很多人想看那有些人看的人就比較沒有啦不要講空的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
16671.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
16689.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
我上次這個點擊率慘不能賭嘛啊你們處理問題的方式是什麼不是解決問題啊是把發現問題的線索全部都抹掉啊點擊人數直接拿掉掩耳盜鈴啊你們後來說有4000多個頁面4000多個資訊那總點擊率是8萬多嘛那我就問你嘛一個頁面一個資訊的點擊率是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
16700.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
16727.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
平均是多少就20次嘛這個數學有這麼困難嗎不是這個報告委員這個因為4000多個頁面有的可能會有破萬的點擊有的可能只有幾個沒有錯那沒有關係啊哪一個點擊率好哪一個點擊率不好老老實實的呈現出來給大家看有什麼問題啊奇怪耶民進黨政府從2016年以來講的口號是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
16728.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
16752.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
是開放政府欸是公開透明欸這個符合開放政府的理念嗎這個符合公開透明的理念嗎還是點擊率不好慘不能賭最快的方式是什麼直接點擊率把它刪掉讓大家不要看我們有一個總體點擊率報告委員這個上次看到這個number報告我剛講8萬人支持我們以為我們是10月20幾號才上去沒有關係啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
16753.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
16767.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
那你就把它放上去嘛半年以後我們再看一次啊一年以後再看一次啊你書發布可以開記者會可以發新聞稿做各式各樣的澄清嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
16768.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
16793.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
所以我們上去的時間比較短所以這個數字可能比較難看我們相信半年以後一年以後這個數字一定會大幅提升能夠好好的擴大我們的引法族跟社會的連結各項活動各項計畫沉積斐然請社會大眾拭目以待一個有信心的政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
16794.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
16811.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
一個號稱要公開透明的政府不是應該這樣做嗎?部長我有沒有說錯?那個謝謝委員的指導那我想這個其實很簡單那如果委員認為這個數字很重要我們就再把它放回去好把它放回去齁我們過一段時間繼續再來檢驗我老實跟你講啦為什麼我覺得這個計畫非常的荒謬 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
16818.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
16840.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
點進去喔還不一定會真的去參加那個活動真的要計算KPI是什麼真的要計算KPI是說我投了這幾億下去做了這些事情我實際產出的output是什麼所以我實際產出的output我老實講也不是上去看點擊幾次而是實際到那個地方參與那個活動的人因為這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
16841.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
16859.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
而增加了多少這個才是實際的Major的方式嘛但問題是什麼但問題是說有點幾並不代表什麼並不代表有趣但是什麼如果連點都不點的話代表他的效益我可以很確定的講是ZERO |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
16860.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
16887.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
是零嘛你們該做的事情不是直接把點擊的次數抹掉你們該做的事情是除了點擊的次數以外到那個空間到那個地點參與那個活動的你們進一步去調查請問你來參加這個活動獲得資訊的管道是什麼你才有辦法去major你這個計畫實際產生的效用跟output是什麼嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
16888.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
16907.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
這個是一個非常簡單的道理我沒有辦法理解啦數位部為什麼沒有辦法理解這麼簡單的道理但是我上次是善意跟部長講請你回去了解這些計畫因為如果實際上面執行的成果是這個樣子你會很難說服很多的委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
16908.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
16936.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
在明年繼續支持這個計畫相同的狀況一樣我代部長看我上次問說次世代行動創新應用負能發展計畫兩年兩億一千三百萬到底在做什麼因為我為什麼會有這個困惑因為這個困惑是連審查委員都說與既有的計畫高度重疊這不是我講的是審查委員講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
16937.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
16965.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
然後呢你們給我的書面回覆我不知道部長有沒有看你說啊這裡面有什麼有智慧教育也有智慧醫療但人家在說的是什麼你的智慧教育智慧醫療跟教育部的校園五級示範教室跟學習載具計畫到底有什麼不同跟衛福部導入五級級智慧科技提升醫療與健康照護有什麼不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
16966.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
16988.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
因為這些計畫書我全部都拜讀過了我拜讀完了以後不好意思我跟部長講我陷入了極度的迷惘到底有什麼不一樣不同的部會用計畫當名目找一些fancy的詞幾億幾億這樣的話我們的政府很有錢那個主席已經站起來我拜託部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
16989.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
17006.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
我再給你們一次機會我再給你們一次機會這個計畫存在的意義跟目的到底是什麼跟其他部會的計畫到底有什麼不一樣你們第一次送來給我的書面回覆我看完了但我看完以後的心得就像我剛剛跟部長報告一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
17007.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
17008.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
這個委員那個報告謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
17033.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
17038.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
好謝謝黃國昌委員謝謝部長我們接下來請林楚英委員發言謝謝主席主席有請黃部長好請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
17056.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
17057.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
網路的詐騙最重要的當然就是廣告的刊登 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
17084.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
17089.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
接下來有六大平台被點名會針對廣告委託脫波者的身份要做驗證我們簡單的來講就是所謂的KYC那麼這六大平台現在被點名的當中這六個當中部長哪些有落地哪些沒有落地 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
17105.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
17126.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
目前都有申請那個就是所謂法律代表人都已經申請了但是其實有法律代表人跟有沒有真的在台灣有分公司或辦公室其實成本不一樣他們遵循台灣法規也就不一樣我想部長你應該知道的比如說今天大家都在講的Facebook或Meta |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
17127.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
17153.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
他就是有一個所謂代表人但是他其實事實上他沒有分公司在這裡他也只接廣告業務但是比如說像LINE他其實是有分公司在這裡那麼他們遵循國內的法規就不一樣那麼接下來我們打造司法要針對廣告來做KYC的時候部長您知不知道其實廣告下廣告的方法不一樣有哪幾種方法你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
17157.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
17175.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
這個詳細對詳細我對詳細我不信但是我們剛剛講就是說其實就納管的意思就是說如果他有發現沒有廣告實名制我們就好部長我來告訴你好了因為本席來自於業界我雖然在媒體圈但是媒體圈廣告是非常重要其實平台也是媒體有三大種 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
17176.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
17196.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
我希望數位部的同仁如果你們不了解的話也去了解一下第一種叫做平台職客就是我們現在在場的所有人都可以跟平台下廣告我自己跟平台下廣告的時候因為我有開發票的問題我有稅務的問題在場的大家都會被實名制另外一種叫代理商 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
17197.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
17198.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
第三種我現在要講的第三種就是叫做自助投放 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
17219.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
17241.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
自助投放是利用一種網路媒合的方式它用勾選條件的方法這個方法它是透過一個網際網路跨域性的我必須要講部長我們立法雖然利益良善但是第三種是透過網路跨區域的媒合 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
17242.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
17266.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
今天他就直接透過網路連線的方式就去登廣告了我必須說現在你看到很多包括不只是這三大平台很多媒體網媒他看起來很像狗皮膏藥每次你去點到裡面你就覺得非常煩要把它點掉的那個廣告他多數就是透過我想的第三種 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
17268.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
17291.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
就是所謂的自助投放的方式這種未來現在請問訴發部找到了讓他KYC的方法嗎?我跟你說喔如果你如果沒有把這個方法解決掉或杜絕掉尤其他是跨網域他可能是外國人他不是跳板他本身就從外國進來你根本抓不到這個人喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
17294.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
17319.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
因為本席看了非常多的質詢或者是討論沒有人特別的針對這個來點來點出來所以為什麼本席今天要站在這裡做質詢我也要提醒你們那我想請問一下現在在部長旁邊的是是那我稍微說明一下跟委員說明那Google聯播網站是最大的這一個可能委員指的是這一個那我要求Google一定要把他後面下廣告的人也要實名制所以我們當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
17321.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
17338.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
所以包括我講的第三屆自動自助投放的方式也可以這個是Google也答應我們好 那麼就是在上路之後可以實施好 因為這個部分非常重要那我要如果可以的話那當然是最好另外你們現在講的要定期的平台要發布透明報告那也就是所謂的要有所謂的白名單嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
17344.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
17359.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
那麼現在我們所點名的六大平台當中我必須說每一個人的狀況不一樣你們手上針對掌握他們在被詐騙廣告所投放的比率包括內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
17362.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
17382.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
有沒有一定他們這六個絕對不可能每一個人有擁有詐騙廣告的比例是一樣的那你們現在有一個數字嗎比如說Google、YouTube、Live、Facebook、Instagram跟Ttalk誰最嚴重誰是屬於前段班的學生誰是屬於後段班的學生本席要提問的第二個問題是這六大平台當中有沒有現在一個現有的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
17387.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
17414.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
誰在詐騙防範當中打造防範當中最支持我們現在臺灣中華民國的政府誰是屬於特別不不想合作不配合或相應不理的部長報告委員那個其實現在這幾個平臺都有跟我們合作那最配合當然就是google跟line他們從這個現在均開始落實實名制那最大的目前的就會加廣告的來源是在facebook |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
17415.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
17443.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
所以META也答應我們現在已經開始實施對所謂高風險的客戶那他答應我們說在1月底前會全面實施那我們也是在後面督促如果那個我們密切跟他保持所謂的這個交流確定他們有照這個進度在實施所以應該如果照他們所答應我們的那個做法應該是在1月底前全面實施實名制包括剛剛講的三種廣告的太陽他們都會去落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
17444.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
17449.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
最後本席只想再借用主席一點時間就是董瑞斌以銀行工會的理事長來講說金融打炸所以全面無法實名制的他都要全部的不下廣告這個本席是贊同也認可但是就像本席剛剛講的在這六大平台或幾大平台當中有優等生也有這個好像鞭子不打下來就不動的那麼要有差異化 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
17471.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
17474.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
如果願意認真配合我們來實施所謂打詐然後來讓打詐無所遁形的我們可以給予肯定甚至於公佈白名單所以本席要建議就是除了定期的讓他們交報告之外這些不法的不乖的 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
17487.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
17506.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
不願意配合我們打炸四法的就公佈他甚至於在稅法稅務上面跟財政部、金管會或者是NCC交通部一起來合作讓他們能夠被看到他們的態度完略因為就像我講的登廣告方式三種 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
17507.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
17521.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
那除了這個所謂自主投放的之外還有職客還有代理商我們就希望所有的職客代理商不是只有董瑞兵說我們銀行相關的就是銀行保險證券期貨我們不要投廣告全民都不要投廣告所有企業都不要投廣告這樣他才會怕但是同樣的也不要一竿子打翻全傳人 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
17530.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
17545.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
愿意配合的、優秀的、他有改善的那把它公布出來黑名單、白名單一併公布好嗎好那本席關心的有關於那個自主廣告所謂的自主投放式的怎麼樣來納管是不是也可以給我會後給我一個比較詳盡的說明好嗎謝謝好謝謝林處理委員謝謝部長接下來請劉建國委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
17561.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
17579.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
謝謝主席,有請黃部長好,請部長部長今天來交通委員會是希望能夠拜託你一件事情就是有關這個目前公部門內爆發的霸凌的問題部長有沒有掌握到這次勞動不勞花署、北分署的這個事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
17582.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
17601.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
我是第一個提出了解到這個北分署人流異常的委員然後包含那個老挖署他的貴署也是一樣的異常也是在質詢的時候我問出來的那你看這個北分署長就任的時候不到兩年時間他那個單位就好像大爛一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
17603.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
17626.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
一次走了81一位如果連輕生那一位他也是有提出申請哦偷偷是82位這是非常非常離譜的一件事情嘛那我有面對這個人力的流動異常的狀態在11月20號的時候在衛生委員會我有特別來要求執行這個權需部跟人事總處然後是我要建置一套這個預警的機制啦那當時的時候這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
17630.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
17645.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
這個權敘不是這麼打呼我他說這個工人離職調集工人員調動資料分別在這兩個單位在做處理但是一直沒有辦法對接出來對接起來那可能要等到明年那我現在私底下了解他可能連明年都沒辦法對接了 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
17646.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
17663.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
這個台灣是個數位資訊進步的國家怎麼會這個離子跟調動的相關資料要對接起來會這麼困難所以我是希望可以請教部長你對這個事情怎麼看法那你這個單位你們貴部能不能予以協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
17667.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
17679.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
議員提到霸凌這個事情但是我剛才強調就是這是在我們單位也不容許的事情所以我們現在已經啟動調查那當然就是說在10月11號調查結果出來我馬上立刻做處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
17679.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
17681.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
關於資訊、薪資、人員調動的比例,我們內部是有自己的統計,但是其他部會要提供數位化的資訊嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
17699.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
17719.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
沒有啦,我的問題很清楚嘛,八點的事情我都還沒有問你,你就直接講了,等一下我們就好好討論啦。我是說,請部長,我是今天來特別拜託你,這個人事總署跟這個權修部,這個離職跟調職的相關資料對接起來,他們說可能到明年才會完成。 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
17719.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
17747.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
我私下了解說可能連明年都對接不起來怎麼接都接不上站在數位部的角度立場跟你們專業能不能予以協助啦我的問題就這樣而已啊那個就是堅持這兩個單位的系統的界界這個我們請那個我們的那個數位政府能不能予以協助啦就這樣而已可以嘛可以就好可以就好因為你們如果予以協助應該就不用等到明年甚至要有五期嘛一直對接不上嘛但是這個不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
17749.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
17749.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
17769.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
17793.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
這樣的技術目前應該是可以辦到嘛對不對請教部長可以嘛好那但是如果這個單位的所長階層對人有異常完全不在乎啦那甚至以為自己單位的人員都是被挖角還是要照顧家庭或者是緩鄉才導致自己單位的能力一直流失那這個恐怕不是AI的可以去處理的嘛就沒辦法嘛對不對如果這個單位的階層 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
17796.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
17796.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
稍微講到11月21日 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
17818.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
17845.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
我本來不想問你說,我就跟你說一個比較有的,對嗎?資安署內部有情緒管控的問題的長官存在。貼文講得這麼清楚,部長可以看嘛。長官脾氣暴躁,經常罵人,罵到牆壁都快倒下的感覺。部長有掌握嗎?有,我們現在在調查中。好,我這邊也有同樣接到署名一群資安署的受破員工借來澄清信啦齁。繼續寫類嘛。然後控制資安署的管理不當,直接點名資安署署長跟副署長標罵下屬言語霸凌嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
17849.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
17867.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
這一張我也有交給部長是嗎?部長等一下你看你怎麼答覆的啦照理講這個新的一個單位基本上就像一個新大陸大家都會想要轉掉進去的一個單位嘛但是怎麼會現在都轉出來然後資安署是111年8月27日成立預算有165 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
17868.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
17883.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
一二零是一四六一一三零剩下一二九或許一四六扣一二九少了十七個大家覺得不怎麼樣但是成立到現在總移植人數是四十二人平調七人降調十四人辭職二十一人部長你覺得這嚴不嚴重這個單位有沒有出問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
17884.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
17890.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
本署人員調職原因多數外界挖角,直來發展選擇反鄉家庭照顧或經濟因素或等考量而調離限職,致本署流動率偏高。另又因 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
17910.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
17926.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
這一個資産高階人才藍蜜且本署經用人員過程嚴謹需通過彼氏面試篩選呼應本署組織業務特性公人員及朋友人員經用需辦理查核查核通過使得經用相關人員亦受嚴格儘管這個限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
17928.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
17949.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
至常遇到對外公告、徵裁、無人報名、人員資格不符等狀況未來本署將持續積極規劃辦理各類人員徵選、養成與留財、作業、自立、補食、缺額。就這麼難找人啊藍密的治安高階人才正用過程嚴謹的你們還可以在兩年內讓他跑到42位誰要負責?請回答我誰該負責? |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
17955.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
17978.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
不要再給我講到別的題目我時間到了誰該負責啊為什麼有這樣的答覆我給你這一張我給你這一張一群血液員工的控訴你給我答覆這樣的還用正式公文是安理署答覆的嗎還是部長你授意他們這樣答覆我的跟委員報告一下我跟你們沒完沒了啊沒有沒有謝謝委員真的非常謝謝委員這個誰要求這樣答覆的 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
17982.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
18004.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
誰做成決議做這樣的公文書答覆到我的辦公室我給你這一張你給我這一個誰決定的啦你答覆我誰決定我沒有問你其他問題誰決定的報告委員您給的這個公文書您給的公文書因為投訴的對象我不是給你公文書我是給你陳情書你是給我公文書誰給的誰做決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
18008.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
18015.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
報告委員我們非常想要留所有的員工所以每一個員工去哪裡我們都會追蹤請答覆我誰給我這一張公文書我給你員工的陳情信你給我這一張公文書誰給我的這一張回我的公文信公文書誰回的這個內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
18032.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
18049.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
議員８ |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
18050.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
18063.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
對 責任使的回覆為什麼我給 我是交代國會聯絡人給你部長啊你為什麼要交代治安署的署長來做這樣的關槍關室的回覆然後自己在那邊打臉你就這麼難找人啊這麼嚴謹啊你講兩天用招40幾個 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
18067.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
18069.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
立法院立法院立法院立法院立法院立法院立法院立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
18093.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
18118.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
有沒有嚴重嗎?你們這麼嚴謹的在招募人才,這麼短的單位讓這麼多人,這又是替本話的捏。連替本話都放棄,他以為是辭職捏。不是只有轉調、平調、降調而已捏。跟委員報告,那個投訴的部分我們有列專案小組的那個調查,以上報告。董事長,你覺得他們給我回這樣有道理? |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
18121.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
18124.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
你是覺得我覺得你給我回的不夠具體所以我才今天來這邊質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
18137.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
18155.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
那我們就讓他公開讓大家很清楚的你怎麼回我嘛部裡面現在就是剛剛講說一調查報告出來馬上會做處理那現在就是我們就是這個已經起動了針對員工霸凌是一件事情嘛我是請教部長說這麼短的時間內資安署這麼嚴謹在招募人才對不對這你們寫的嘛那怎麼這麼短的時間讓42位的同仁離開你們的單位誰該負責嘛霸凌是另外一件事情嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
18165.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
18166.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
所以就叫做外界挖角吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
18190.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
18213.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
但是委員我有詳細的資料就是每一個人去哪裡這個有詳細的資料所以可以經得起檢視就是我們真的很想留員工所以我們其實都會問員工說那你現在你要去哪裡然後你的薪水是多少那有很多員工告訴我說他薪水變多而且主席給我很長的時間了你如果這麼講我實在也也不曉得再怎麼跟你講下去了反正我覺得說 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
18214.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
18237.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
你們就是很懇切的很好的這樣的一個心情希望留住更多的這個同仁但是他們就是因為怎麼樣怎樣被挖角了如果你還這樣講那好那我們就好好的來了解更清楚嘛我這一張我這一張這個他們給我的這個陳情書我再給部長啦部長如果你們要再持續這樣答覆我我是覺得你們數碼署是真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
18238.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
18240.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
接下來請賴世保委員發言賴世保,賴世保委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
18256.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
18264.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
羅廷偉委員不在鄭正前委員不在蘇清泉委員不在高金素梅委員不在王美惠委員不在張其凱委員不在羅美玲委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
18277.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
18285.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
登記諮詢委員均已發言完畢我們做以下決議報告及詢答完畢委員羅美玲所提書面諮詢列入記錄並開發公報 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
18287.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
18307.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
第三委員在質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請數位發展部競速以書面答覆第四114年度數位發展部單位預算令則其進行處理委員預算提案在12月20號星期五中午12點前截止收件本次會議到此結束現在散會 |
| IVOD_ID |
16336 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16336 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-04 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-23-13 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
13 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-04T08:31:25+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-04T13:36:00+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |