| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b73ade72829c64edff4632c59044642641854146fdf8e2ada82e37f9ba35fd777add23ee299fe9f45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-02T14:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院國家發展基金不當投資暨管理失職調查委員會第1次全體委員會議（事由：一、本院國家發展基金不當投資暨管理失職調查委員會委員組成方式等事項，業經本院第11屆第2會期第10次會議決議照案通過，並經各黨團推派共 14 人組成，名單經提報本院第11屆第2會期第11次會議在案。
二、宣讀本會召集委員選舉人名冊。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 影片長度 |
12238 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:30:02 - 16:54:00 |
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報告委員會以主法定人數那我們現在開始開會請宣讀報告事項調查委員請問一下主席是怎麼產生的為什麼是他可以推舉重嘉賓啊今天主席是誰我看一下喔等一下因為我還沒推啊怎麼會是吳宗憲先說明一下先說明一下 |
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2009.061 |
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這個是院會決議的內容因為院會在那個他說由國民黨黨團推派的代表充任主席在哪裡在倒數第三行那還是大家OK |
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我覺得林思明比較好我完全認同加一票我們在幹嘛你們不知道加一票我們要推取楊瓊英當主席那那個省委員那我們要繼續還是要重新那個推舉主席表決一下啦我推舉林思明 |
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吳思瑤吳宗憲 |
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| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
2091.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
好OK謝謝那就由本能擔任主席請問一下有沒有不同的意見大家推舉的結果記錄下來阿你們要推派阿你們要推派你們推了嘛推了記錄下來就好是好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2094.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2105.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
對,就決議裡面是有注明說是由國民黨黨團來推派所以國民黨黨團推舉我來擔任主席所以我現在擔任主席來主持會議以上解釋完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2109.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2130.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
這個程序問題好請說好來主席這樣子我們委員會這個大院會的決議他是寫了三個事情他先決定了時間就是今天要召開這次會議第二他決定了由國民黨團來推派的代表充任主席就是剛剛的程序第三個他要來議決 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2136.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2155.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
議決我們的運作要點但是呢我們現在接下來是要選舉召委嘛對不對好那選舉召委那根據我們立法院各委員會組織法第4條之一各委員會之議程應由輪值召集委員會召集委員決定之那現在出現一個問題了 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2157.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2180.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
這裡面院會是有說要來議決這個運作要點但是議程要由輪值召委來決定之所以目前我們今天的議程在召委沒有產生之前是沒有存在議程的因為這個議程是固然院會有交付這個調查委員會要處理這個事情但是什麼時候處理要由新選出來的召委來決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2181.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2207.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
所以本席認為目前議事人員他列了一個討論事項是明顯違反了我們立法院各委員會組織法第4條之一侵犯了將要被我們選為召委的排定議程的權利那建議主席這個討論事項不能現在先列在我們議事日程裡面這個雖然是院會交付給本委員會但是本委員會的議程要由待會選出的召委決定所以議事人員這樣列 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2209.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2236.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
是明顯的違反了我們各委員會組織法這個請我們主席臨時主席來處理一下好謝謝中高委那這個部分因為院會他有做這樣的決議那我們是不是可以請議事人員說明一下院會的這個決議是不是有違反我們的組織法好嗎我們請他們說明嘛我們請他們說明我這樣子講好不好他這裡面的意思是怎樣由知席委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2238.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2259.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
決定本調查委員會是召集人這個召集人選出來是應該說召集人並議決你不可以說這個在罵他這是一個一貫的程序可能他們在寫的時候沒有注意到說這一點召集人議決你拿這個來當那個居馬當監的沒有必要陳昌明 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2263.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2284.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
不要亂講話好不好我解釋給你聽好不好這個會議 朝委不好意思這個沒有什麼好承認我是覺得要讓他進行很簡單嘛我們今天本來就是要先選出朝委嘛朝委選出來之後要決定議程怎麼辦那朝委可以去決定就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2287.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2306.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
是,那所以就沒有什麼好爭論,就是鍾嘉賓的意識也很,跟我們的意識是一樣的啦,就是說今天沒有什麼議程啦,今天就是,你那個討論事項哪有,今天哪有可能討論事項,那個,那個,那個召委出來之後,他要拜什麼我們就不知道了啊,所以我們今天就先選召委好不好,就這樣就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2308.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2312.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
是啦,這很簡單,這好像沒人要爭議那我們還是麻煩議事人員說明一下因為陳昭平亂講話要糾正他然後我們再來討論,謝謝各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2329.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2339.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
立法院議事規則第16條是致詞於開會兩日前送達議事日程嗎?不是說先有召委然後再有兩日的時間然後再有議程不是正常應該這個樣子嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2343.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2364.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
沒有說啊,就是我們一直在說,對不起,又插話就是還沒有選出未來的召集委員之前是不應當有一個討論事項被定出來了沒有那個委員吼,還有我是每個人的意見我都很重視,那我想我們先請那個議事委員說明一下我們再來討論,這樣比較公正好不好,那請說 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2368.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2394.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
報告委員會我們是根據這個院會12月2日星期一下午兩次召開的第一次會議會議就是由國民黨黨團推派之代表充任主席由主席委員決定本調查委員會之召集人並議決立法院國家發展基金不當投資暨管理失職調查委員會運作要點報告完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2404.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2410.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這我剛才說是議論會招募的人謝謝是啦,那我們就先把召委選出來召委再自己去決定來,就行,來 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2412.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2437.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那個瓊瑛委員先舉手的是不是先讓他說還是要讓來來來來因為這個是院務交位下來我們依照程序現在推舉出這個主席出來然後就是要選召委依照程序走啊討論事項也是院會交位下來所以等我們召委選出來之後召委再來繼續開會嘛安德華這沒有什麼爭議嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2445.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2469.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那尋求這個代理召集人的一個請示因為民進黨所提交的這個成員名單裡頭那其實我們有一位成員是現在right now正在院長室宣誓就職的王毅超安委員所以說我們是要替換人員所以說因為本來就是匡定是他 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2470.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2490.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
只是立法院說要等他就職之後所以我要請示一下他等一下2點15分就職完可能2點20分或30分我們的預定成員王逸川是我們的當然委員所以等一下在巡視這個圈票的時候因為當初對因為我們有商量好本來就是王逸川但因為他 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2491.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2509.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
人事處告訴我們他要今天2點15分才會正式就職所以我是想請示說那等一下對要把總召換換本來就跟人事處說明了是因為人事處說時間就是晚15分鐘所以我們其實黨團的成員是王逸傳 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2510.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2531.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
所以說等一下是怎麼樣來處理是不是我們等他就職之後因為我們本來填他但是是人事處告訴我們說他今天2點15分就職所以才說要等他就職之後就可以替換嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2535.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2549.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我們一開始就有定心往一傳因為本來就是送他,人事處說要等他就任之後才可以,我們只好先填上一個代理的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2549.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2549.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2568.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2568.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2584.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2584.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
民政事務部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2612.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2639.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
現在就說因為名單在11月27號就送進來這是院會交付如果你要換人我們召委選出來之後那你再按照相關的議事程序去換人可是在現在這個時候你就要說我們要等他來換他所以這要按照程序來走你沒有換人我想我們不會有一件但是我們還是要依照相關的程序來走你到時候要送院會來決定你要送院會說你要換人 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2641.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2641.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2658.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2661.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
報告主席,你要有決斷力,人事的名單出來的要怎麼換? |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2683.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2702.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
民進黨朋友跟立法院講立法院又沒有跟我們講那誰講的為基準進行啊不要偷啦早晚要面對了啦拜託啦我們今天立法院的關係文書裡面記載的人名就在這裡那當然我知道你們可能有一些置換那這個是不是由我們選出 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2703.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2722.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那個召委之後再由你們跟召委去溝通看怎麼置換好嗎?因為我必須依照現在的選舉人名冊以及關係文書裡面的記載去做我沒有辦法去做這個記載以外的認定雖然我很尊重你們的意見好嗎?好那我想說我們就先進行召委的選舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2724.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2750.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
中委員我對剛剛我們臨時主席對於各黨團推派人選的處理我沒有別的意見那麼尊重但是因為一開始我提出的程序問題是根據院會交下來因為剛剛臨時主席有請我們議事人員說明但是我認為還是違反了我們立法院各委員會組織法第4條之1的內容怎麼說呢因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2751.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2770.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我們要推要由出席委員決定召集人院會在做決議的時候是要成立這個委員會而且呢指定了時間就是現在這個時間這個時間連我們連改都不能改那大家一時來出席了那我們要選出召集委員到召集委員選出來之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2771.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2791.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那麼至於院會說的要去處理議決運作要點那是由召委根據我們各委員會組織法第41條來做處理那我這邊容我把過去我們立執法修法之後之前我們成立過8個調查委員會這8個調查委員會我分別的請議事人員仔細聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2795.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2824.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
第6屆第3會期美國牛肉進口決策調閱委員會他是在5月3號下午4時他是做黨團協商決定在5月5號召開那麼5月5號之後呢他的第一次的開會時間就是選舉召委另外第6屆第一次會期有通訊保障及監察調閱委員會也是一樣第一次會議就是選召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2825.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2850.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
到了第5屆第5次臨時會的時候有一個319槍擊事件啟動國安機制相關文件調閱委員會也是一樣第一次就是選召委所以呢接下來我繼續可以跟大家講第5屆的時候有個民間參與高速公路電子收費系統建置及營運營運甄選過程調閱委員會都是一樣第5屆第5次行政院金融重建基金處理8家信用合作社調閱委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2851.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2876.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
第5屆第3次幻象戰機採購案調閱委員會第5屆第3次行政院金融重建基金會處理36家農漁會信用部調閱委員會第5屆第1次會期通訊監聽執行情形調閱委員會第5屆第1次會期國家安全局預算外秘密帳戶調閱委員會我以上念的這些都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2878.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2902.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
請臨時主席容我們這樣說明這些都是在立職法經過這次修改後之前還是適用舊法的吊躍委員會那時候的那時候毫無例外的這幾個的日子它的立法院還包括是國民黨在執政的時期國民黨在立法院有絕對多數的時候第一次的吊躍委員會都是選召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2903.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2919.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那請議事人員你要跟我們說明說為什麼院會的決議我們目前按照我們議事規按照我們立法院各委員會組織法第4之1條來處理也沒有違背院會的交易院會告訴我們什麼時候要開第1次會議而且要推出 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2921.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2941.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
趙偉推出趙偉之後就是由趙偉按照立法院國委員會組織法開始來執行了。另一次的調查委員會都是如此那想請臨時主席說明一下在趙偉沒產生之前我們議事裡面如何從過去的議事常規慣例還有議事我們的相關的這些運作規則可以推出這一次就可以有討論事項要來進行這個運作要點的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2945.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2950.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
這個是侵犯我們未來選出的召委的權限也違反了各委員會組織法釋之一條的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2952.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2979.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我們不這樣做也沒有違反了院會的教育院會教育我們今天要開會要選出召委而且在選召委之前臨時主席是由國民黨團的推派到目前為止我們的按照院會的執行了我現在只是說目前我們的今天的討論事項這個是逾越了我們過去8次調查委員會的常規也違反了各委員會組織法第4至1條的規定請主席能夠詳查好謝謝那我們先請陳委員補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2981.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2982.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
報告主席啊,第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2983.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2999.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
我們就把這次調查委員會的召集人先選出來召集人坐上台下才來決定這些事情你不要被他們迷惑掉好不好他們要想要超延時間啊我跟你講這個速度有時候一定能改變的不是說以前要怎麼樣現在就要怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3012.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3031.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
你這個是為講話而講話雖然攝影機很多你講的意識跟我剛講的就一模一樣了好不好討論事項要拿掉先等一下現在就是沒有討論事項的啦先召委選出來再說啦討論事項要拿掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3033.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3039.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
我現在要討論的一件事情跟要選召委有很大的關聯我還是希望能夠獲得提案委員這邊的一些說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3051.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3075.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
我們過去在成立這些調查調閱委員會都有相關的組成人數那組成人數按政黨比例為之剛剛嘉賓委員有提到六支三界我們是美國牛肉進口決策調閱委員會那時候是15位然後五支五臨時會第一次就是319的時候是17位 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3077.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3091.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
五之五 民間參與高速公路電子收費系統建置調查委員會人數 15 位五之五 金融重建基金調查委員會人數 21 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3093.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3110.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
那幻象戰機採購案的調閱委員會人數是21然後五至三也有另外一個36家農漁會信用部的調閱委員會人數是21我的意思是說我們在成立任何這個調查委員會、調閱委員會以前是調閱委員會都是一個基數 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3112.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3136.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
然後依政黨比例那當然我知道是提案委員民眾黨團在這個院會的時候就已經自己在提案裡頭寫清楚是7比6比1就是14位那國民黨7席民進黨6席民眾黨1席我還是要清楚說明這跟過去用基數的來計算這個政黨比例是有所不同的 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3137.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3161.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
我們過去在歷次的朝野協商也都很清楚包括韓院長上一次的協商前我們有訂定一個15位的不管是院會要發言15位的基數的調查委員會7比7比1我們還針對這個數學算式算了很久所以7比7比1是我們當初即便是7比7比1藍白加起來還是大於民進黨對不對還是你們還是7加1 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3164.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3178.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
但是這個委員會在院會交付的時候提案的民眾黨已經把名額列為7比6比1所以這個時候已經是民進黨又變成了六位的絕對的弱勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3181.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3204.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
所以想要說明一下想要請教一下為什麼這樣的一個席次的分配的決定那我可以很大膽的預測未來在這個必然的這個政黨分配的席次之下對於民進黨的六席他就是絕對的弱勢任何的討論基本上不需要調查不需要討論你們凡事只要透過表決就是贏了 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3205.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3219.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
所以我不曉得為什麼有這個7比6比1的這個組成數字再怎麼樣一慣例也是7比7比1也是以基數為準所以這個東西這是數學問題也是一個合宜的運作的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3221.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3235.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
而我坦白說藍加白7比1、7加1、8席還是大於民進黨的7席只是在發言的人數的分配上居然把它限縮為總數14席這就跟過去基數為主的這個完全運作不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3236.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3237.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3257.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3273.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
被討論就表決了先依照這個沒有被討論就表決了脫票來選召集人阿剛剛民進黨黨團的你要瞭解14期整期他們有意義就到院會再來討論嘛好不好不要脫了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3274.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3282.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
他們在偷私生你看不出來這個調查委員會還沒有開始連討論都不能討論這個調查委員會一開始連討論都不能討論那是不是就預言了這個調查委員會未來的命運 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3289.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3306.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
就是合宜的發言的時間嘛大家先安靜一下嘛那我非常合宜的提出我的質疑請求說明因為這跟過去的慣例都不一樣計算的基準也都不一樣吳委員我現在先把那個法條跟大家說一下然後我們再繼續討論好不好那個不好意思我們程序問題一句話就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3307.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3323.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那個我們都是舉手發言啦是不是請陳委員舉手然後代理主再請示發言好不好不然這樣一團亂啦對我是覺得一團亂啦好不好那我先說明一下齁第一個齁人數的部分是院會那邊決議的再來依據立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3324.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3343.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
院職權行使法46條之一調查委員會的成員是由立法院各黨團一起在院會的席次比例推派那這個人數也不是我們今天要解決的事項那如果說大家有問題應該是在院會那個時候就要表示阿那你今天到委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3344.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3369.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
那天表示你們就強行表決啦我們那天表示你們強行表決啊我意思是說今天我們在這裡我只能拿著選舉人名冊以及關係文書上面所列的人我只能這樣處理我沒有辦法越權去做其他的事情我想你們都能夠理解我在說什麼我無法越權啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3370.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3379.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
主席團組討論依照程序進行投票投票投票投票投票投票投票投票投票投票投票投票投票 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3386.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3404.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
院會決議的事項,我們就照院會決議的事項來走這是特種委員會,不是我們一般的委員會特種委員會院會決議的事項,我們就按照院會所排定的議程來走特種委員會根據哪一本議事規則?特種委員會所有的議事運作,按照立法院各委員會組織法來運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3417.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3443.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
你告訴我特種委員他如果不依照立法院各委員組織法來運作根據什麼來運作我現在只要求主席我們今天的這個議事日程明顯的討論事項列在上面是侵犯待會要選出來的召委的職權議事人員無權去侵犯待會我們選出來召委的職權我這邊要再提醒院會固然有交易院會交易是決定時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3444.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3460.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
決定由國民黨團推派臨時主席而且要來召開這個會議比例也是院會決議至於說要處理運作要點每一個特別調查委員會成立後都要處理運作要點 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3461.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3483.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
那是毫無例外的但是議事人員今天把討論事項列在這裡面明明白白的跟我們8次特別委員會調查委員會的慣例違背也跟各委員會組織法第4至1條違背侵犯了待會我們要進行投票選舉的召委的職權所以現在請臨時主席將討論事項槓掉沒有這個討論事項這是違法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3489.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3493.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
我們現在臨時主席請大家看一下這個立法院行為刑事法在剛才講的46之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3504.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3523.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
事由之一的第1項．調查委員會的成員由立法院各黨團依其在院會之席次比例推派之．並得視實際情況予以改派那這是在第1項那至於選擇召委是在第3項．調查委員會及調查專案小組應至召集委員1人 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3524.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3549.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
由所屬成員互選之所以我們可以看出說先確定成員然後再來選召集委員這個是這個法律的一個規定所以我們現在應該要先確認成員那我們現在民進黨團也是依照46條之一事實去情況與改派那我們現在希望改派王逸川我覺得這個是程序問題應該要優先處理那等我們成員確定之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3553.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3567.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
那再來依46條之一的第三項來選召集委員整個法律的架構也是這樣去建構架構的所以既然我們提出我們希望改派的一個程序意見的時候那當然是要優先處理喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3569.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3597.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
那個改派的部分這個是我們等選出召委之後由他來做決定就好了我剛講的就是46條之一第一項的條文的內容這個條文的內容就是必得是實際情況予以改派那我們的實際情況就是我們的希望的成員王逸川委員他因為是在2點15的時候才就職所以我們現在實際情況就是他人也在這裡了 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3598.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3619.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
我們提出程序意見我們希望改派我剛發言的時候因為王醫生還沒正式完成就職現在他已經正式完成了所以我們可以直接replace嗎不要因為特例而改變我們所有都是針對法規今天的名單已經出來了這個公告出來了你們說要變就變那等召委選出來再來討論這個事情還有一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3625.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3638.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
如果你們要變應該要跟秘書處講,跟院院去討論,阿他可能不同意的話他說請我們要往益川秀院再說,我們沒有講完就好,一接二來啦這個剛就講過了,人家一早就跟秘書處講過啦現在這個都出來了,名單出了 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3650.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3673.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
因為這會涉及到說未來我們的成員王逸川委員他在行使招委投票權27號的時候到名單的時候他就還不是啦還不是啦那我們現在希望他改派就是未來他接下來要行使招委的投票權一樣他要有這個權利我先在這邊把話說清楚嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3674.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3700.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
我當然非常歡迎王逸川來參加那將來置換我也沒見我先說第一個不是大家不能各說各話來我先說第一個因為我手上的這份名單沒有王逸川我也非常歡迎他將來置換大家一起來討論事項但是我們這一次我們手上的這個名單他是當時有規定必須在11月27號星期三中午12點送交 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3702.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3724.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
宣交議事處會診第一個規定是這樣所以當時的名單是在這個時間點要送出來所以我現在手上比較麻煩的是我拿到的選舉的名冊以及關係文書上面並沒有那是不是沒有我們可以更換按照規定可以更換不是你聽我講完嘛為什麼大家都不讓我把話說完 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3731.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3758.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
好 謝謝大家我的意思是這樣就是因為我們今天的名單都在上面那是不是你們先把這個昭緯的該走的東西我們把它走完那之後要那個置換王逸川我們都非常歡迎那我們再程序往後面走這個不會侵害到誰的權限會 會 昭緯你今天要我做一個關係文書上面沒有的名字我不知道怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3759.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3778.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
不是啦,那個趙偉趙偉我說明一下施敏施敏我先講一下你這個名單送進來裡面現在沒有王一川這沒有錯但問題就是說本來成員就可以隨時去做一個更換這個更換裡面符合法律的規定第二這個更換以後民進黨也不會增加一個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3780.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3801.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
這個就是ABC的問題就很簡單的問題報告主席啊所以說這樣選舉前可以更換名單哪一個條例講出來啊我們46條之一明文講出來你給我看明單的變更有一定的程序啦我非常贊成剛才陳昌明委員講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3802.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3802.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
主席王毅川 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3823.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3834.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
那個王毅昌才是成為我們的這個律師主席啊他目前他不是你怎麼叫他一直說現在要求主席馬上變更為他你不可以隨時改派啦不啦不啦不可以這樣隨時改派不可以這有一定的律師主席狀況欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3846.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3848.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
臨時民委員和陳昌明委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3867.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3889.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
你都覺得人家很開心我就跟你講我拿你說按照法律規定嘛我條文的一句來念給你聽按照我們整個立法院的支援行使法裡面第14條之一啊我一個字我都全部不要漏啊調查委員會之成員由立法院各黨團依其在院會的席次比例推派之這個當然沒問題並得釋情況予以改派 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3890.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3908.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
是本來就可以改派那所以說阿所以同意阿那我們現在就是要改派阿要送議事書沒有問題阿就是他還沒有就職他現在就職完以後我們現在就是要改派阿我們改派完以後我們沒有增加一個人阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3909.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3924.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
我再跟你強調一下你要改派是OK我想大家都贊同歡迎王毅出來成立我們的委員也是我們的委員之一但是依照立法院我們要換人他有一定的意識的一個相關的程序所以過去的慣例都這樣沒有隨時的你這樣別說 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3931.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3935.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
市上上個禮拜就跟立法院說明我們就是王逸川是立法院說要等他今天2點15分就職我們來現場處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3948.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3956.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
那你現在去趕快跟議事處講你去跟議事處講你是去跟議事處講他沒權利決定啊沒有啦誰不要議事處去更換名單進來之後才確定換臨時主席我才覺得問題就圓滿解決啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3967.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3975.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
我們是由46條之一我們是由46條之一提案申請改派那46條之一明顯是在46條之一的第三項同意已經提了已經提了已經提了是立法院不給我們換的 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3989.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3999.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
好了,已經提給趙偉了,趙偉你肯定身邊就沒有辦法了當時身邊就沒有辦法嘛當時身邊報的時候,身邊就不符合資格嘛所以身邊不可能在現場說話只能在破壞議事規則嘛因為這也是第一次發售一個委員綱號各位同仁,大家都有氣質有水準的請尊重主席好不好,不然大家一起講根本 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4017.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4038.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
聽不到誰在講要嘛就是我們休息三分鐘大家協商休息三分鐘可以大家請喝咖啡我的做法是這樣我們可以請議事人員說明一下法規的規定因為46之一他第一項的規定是得事情況予以改判他不是因事情況予以改判所以我不是啦他就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4042.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4059.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
要嘛我們可以請議事人員說明一下對於法律的見解要嘛我們休息三分鐘大家協商不然這樣亂下去我說真的今天有沒有改派這個對於我們目前要選召委他其實有沒有很大的影響這個我們可以去思考一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4060.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4063.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
第三方的法治局來說明一下法律規定是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4090.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4093.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
還是你需要研究一下我告訴你我這個權威見解在這裡你不聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4096.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4096.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4122.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4125.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
依照立法院各委員會的召集委員選舉辦法第二條第一項人事處因於每年首次會期黨團所屬委員會參加常設的委員會抽籤日之次日 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4146.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4161.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
每年第二次會期開一次次日編定召集委員選舉人名冊分送各該委員會委員各委員會名冊編定後二日內就要舉行召集委員的選舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4162.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4183.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
所以我們今天的我們的委員會這個所有的委員會的名冊今天就已經寫得很清楚就是裡面沒有包含王逸川委員新上任的王逸川委員所以我們現在名冊都已經編訂好了我們今天就是要去選了就依照我們先編訂好的名冊來選招委你不能臨時撮外臨時撮外以後每個委員會都這樣做的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4189.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4190.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
長壽委員會不得犯人 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4207.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4225.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
只要召委還沒選出來以前王逸川已經是立法委員的身份他就可以行使他的職權如果說 no no no no no那個在 46 了之一本來調查委員會的成員就可以視情況隨時去做調整是啊所以說因為你還沒選出來嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4227.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4255.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
你太久沒有職業了,連法律都亂解釋亂來亂來亂來專委,專委我小弟你法律的內涵是用心法內涵強,但是德德這個字是由主席在裁定的要不要那個主體是黨團啊黨團才是德的主體不是主席啊你都亂講啦你都亂講啦休息一下我們休息一下,大家溝通一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4263.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4276.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
執權行使法是新通過的法律新法是立法院執權行使法是新通過的法律依新法來處理而且今天處理的就是立法院執權行使法所規範的調查委員會黨團得事情況去調整參與的委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4284.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4303.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
那這也是史上很特別的．補的委員是今天．補的時間跟我們開會的時間是重疊的所以我們希望補正民進黨團更換王逸川之後確保王逸川新任委員的權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4558.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4576.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
三、四、五、六、七、八、九、十、九、十、九、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、十、 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4594.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4604.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
不要剝奪王毓川的權利他現在已經就任了不要剝奪王毓川的權利依照立法院職權行使法新通過的法律王毓川有權地府王毓川有權地府 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4762.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4787.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
我們要改派王逸川是因為王逸川人緣好啊搞不好他會當選欸對不對有這個可能啊為什麼我們不能改派就是在確定召委前然後我們現在要我們要改派王逸川因為王逸川的人緣好啊我們總召的仇恨值比較高可能大家不要支持他這個有很大的不同啊權力的不同欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4820.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4830.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
主席主席主席來我想讓三個黨團幹部去談一下主席我們現在可以發言嗎?等一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4874.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4877.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
議員選票那邊要沒有我們黃衛寧選票? |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4903.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4907.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
開會了!開會了!開會了!開會了!開會了!拖延到現在可以了啦! |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4928.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4948.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
不行啊!因為我們先要求改派這會涉及到未來我們成員王逸川、我們成員的權利啊!還沒有選召委的權利啊!民進黨各位委員不要特別開創歷史選票裡面沒有王逸川的名字嘛!不然你們要改派提早講啊!不然這個票要怎麼投? |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4949.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4951.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
主席那我具體提議好嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4965.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4966.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
主席主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4981.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
5003.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
議事規則就是我手上拿的規則你們沒有人要聽規則我們立法委員行為法裡面其實我們在會議期間你剛剛講的是常設委員會我們現在說的是調查委員會請依我們剛剛上會期表決通過的調查權行使立法院職權行使法第8章46之1條第一項立法委員要守法 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
5008.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
5010.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
我講的像大法官在跟你們宣誓條文一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
5030.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
5052.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
不要再這樣子了好不好因為我跟你說我跟各位報告一下我個人也是非常歡迎王逸傳一起我們將來一起都可以開會討論嘛那但是呢我今天當臨時主席我所收到的名單真的是只有這些只有這些東西這些那你說會議其實我們在兩點整就開始了那各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
5053.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
5075.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
今天要到場的委員也一定會收到我們立法院給你們的開會通知那如果沒有在名單上面以及沒有收到開會通知的你說要我主席這邊就是直接把他更換我也覺得這個很奇怪主席可以不用再打了你有那個權利啦你們讓我把話說完嗎你有權利啦我事實給你支援啦不用 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
5075.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
5097.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
不用今天就是我今天主席拜託我把話說完所以我們今天在任何會我們在任何會議的時候其實名單就是提供給會議的主席的時候的名單長什麼樣會議主席也是只能就名單的部分去處理那有的人如果在開會的時候沒有辦法趕到場 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
5098.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
5118.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
你說臨時大家講一講就丟一個名單出來置壞那至少在我對於會議的理解上面我不知道這個是可以做的我認為這是不行而是以今天誰收到開會通知還有今天的選票上面有誰是以這個為基準才對啊那你怎麼會要求我去做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
5119.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
5140.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
主席我有意見我們不是隨便換一換我們事前送名單給立法院的時候就已經說明我們有王逸川委員那我甚至覺得那為什麼今天我們這個會就是要硬比王逸川兩點十五就值早十五分我甚至覺得你就算卡王逸川嘛有啦你講最多啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
5142.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
5160.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
你今天尊重我尊重我主持會議嘛那我剛才也說的非常的清楚了因為今天收到開會通知的委員有哪些那還有今天我們會議的名單立法院院會交給我的名單上面有哪一些人 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
5161.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
5161.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
不正常 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
5182.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
5196.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
我跟妳講那妳照這樣講好了啦那妳今天開庭開到一半我這個已經地委任狀的律師我想說妳拜五韓國瑜院長也要再處理變更議程這個昭偉昭偉我跟妳補充一下妳這樣講就不對了啦我依據我對於議事規則的了解我就依據議事規則來處理那如果妳們認為我這樣做不對那歡迎妳們就之後再行發言今天我就依據我對於會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
5207.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
5214.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
這個就不好啦這個我跟主席來做一個說明大家尊重你主席講完以後你不能講完以後你洗胎都沒人說第一個啊主席剛剛錯誤了一點在什麼地方你的意思就是說我遞委員狀進去以後開庭他要一半隨時要把他解任掉換人可不可以法院如果認為可以的話當然就可以啊第二個啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
5231.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
5250.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
我們在整個職權刑署辦法裡面46條之一就講得很清楚除非你這個條文的認定是說你這個名單裡面全部都是要在你名單列印出來以前才可以去做調整那你的意思就是說46條之一是開會完以後全部都不能更換名單喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
5251.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
5251.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
5268.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
5269.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
主席主持 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
5287.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
5310.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
大家都是按條文喔46條之一的第一項來申請如果照主持人的說法那是不是在禮拜五的時候議程確定就不能再變更議程今天是主持委員會那是院會交辦我主持的是嗎院會交辦你說就是因為交辦你才會在那個地方啊那我們是在跟你講說你的職權薪酬辦法裡面有特殊的一個安排本來就可以去隨時做更換嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
5311.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
5328.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
那在今天會議兩點開始之前我們有收到的名單以及委員的資料那我們就盡量來處理那如果你們當初認為說王委員要置換的話那你們應該早一點去跟那個委員會早就講了我上禮拜就講了立法院是你們家開的你們都不理阿是你們不理阿你們就不要王一川幹阿我上禮拜就講了阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
5338.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
5359.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
我上禮拜就已經說請求因為我愛上委員的就任時間是今天下午先等一下我還沒講完你們今天要求我處理的是一個我手上拿到了這一份立法院給我的關係文書上面名單以外的人我沒有不歡迎他但是因為名單上面就是長這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
5361.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5388.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
我沒有真的沒有辦法怎麼另外的處理如果今天大家對於我們今天開會會因為王委員還沒有辦法去地補的話那其實你們應該當初要向院會說我們是不是開會的時間改其他日子然後讓他能夠能夠整個程序走完嘛但是你們並沒有這麼做結果我今天拿到了這份開會的資料上面沒有王委員那關係文書也沒有王委員結果我今天要怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5388.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5395.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5412.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5412.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5429.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5448.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
我想剛剛幾位委員在這個過程當中也跟我們今天的主席有做了一個意見交換那建議待會主席可以請法治人員、議事人員依法來做解釋首先其實剛剛很多委員都講到第一個很清楚的不管是會議通知還是他所附的會議文件這都是公文書 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5449.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5478.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
公文書的內容不能與法律抵觸也不能去拘束依法行使的職權那首先我要指明請主席做出一個明確的決定目前這份公文書當中的討論事項它明顯地寫了討論事項這已經是抵觸了立法院各委員會組織法第4之1條議程系由召集委員排定這個公文書的內容侵犯了 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5479.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5497.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
法律給召委的權限這要予以更正這是第1個那待會請主席看是要直接處理還是請法政人員說明我要強調這是公文書第2個所謂的選舉人名冊他的擅自其實並沒有錯誤因為這份公文書他的附件在產生的當下 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5499.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5513.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
當時本院的立法委員113名當中並沒有王逸川委員所以裡面沒有他的名字這並沒有錯誤但是這是公文書公文書發到我們委員會已經有臨時主席在主持會議了 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5514.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5534.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
那麼民進黨黨團很清楚的根據我們剛通過的法律立法院指權行使法第46條之一的第一項黨團得更換他們推派的代表那目前在2點15分王逸川委員已經就任了 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5534.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5550.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
他本身已經具備了立法委員的職權了民進黨黨團也根據了立法院職權新法第4條之一的第一項跟我們臨時主席遞出了民進黨團依法要請求變更代表我們並沒有說這個明徹有誤 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5553.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5568.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
這個名冊產制的時候王逸川還不是立法委員但是當現在我們開會後的兩點十五分他已經是立法委員了民進黨黨團根據46條之一我們遞出要求改派我們的代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5568.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5589.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
那麼這個可以由我們本委員會的臨時主席來依法處理那這個部分我們講得很清楚那至於也回應一下我們臨時主席你剛剛講到的立法院各委員會召集委員選舉辦法你引用了你說的是第一幾條 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5590.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5609.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
二條第一項很好但你要注意到第一條這個選舉辦法他是根據他前面說的他上位法是各委員會組織法第三條之四那你看看第三條之四寫什麼第三條之四寫的是立法院各委員會召集委員二人請問我們今天召集委員幾人 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5610.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5628.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我們是特別委特種委員會所以我們各委員會組織法他是指常設委員會特種委員會得準用之所以如果你要引述那個選舉辦法那我們要告訴你我們本委員會只有一位召委這是由院會在設立這個特種委員會之後就明白的講了很清楚的 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5630.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5646.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
選一位召集人來擔任所以這裡面你要在援引下位的辦法我覺得有點位階上有點錯字啦所以我還是請求我們臨時主席很清楚的對這兩個第一個叫做公文書的更正 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5648.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5664.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
這是更正因為裡面的討論事項明顯的逾越了我們公文書擅自的原則衝突了、抵觸了我們立法院我們的各委員會組織法第4-1條的規定議程應由召委來排定第二個我們請求的是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5665.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5684.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
我們沒有質疑這張選舉的名稱有錯誤我們是根據現在的狀況在我們行使投票之前請我們本特政委員會準於就是我們民進黨黨團一46條之一我們提出要更換代表那請主席來處理那我有聽到大家的意見那我現在想說 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5686.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5686.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5710.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5734.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
我們如果要求個別的議事人員出來講話沒有人敢講那是不是我們給他們比如說20分鐘讓他們討論一下由他們等於討論的結論給我們我們依據結論來走這樣不知道好不好我想這是最公平的做法好不好我想這是最公平我們沒有偏袒任何一方的做法好嗎不是啦我是說因為大家的意見不知道可能是五方十方吧大家意見不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5736.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5763.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
這樣也不行嗎不是不行我給你一個建議這不是雙方這只有單方如果說王逸川現在已經具備了立法委員的身份我們現在整個開會連召委都還沒有選舉的話王逸川現在地補上來他不會讓國民黨或者另外一個陣營裡面你們人數加起來你們居於劣勢不會這第一個所以那第二個就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5764.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5769.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
你說叫他刮長尿法律明明就擺在那個地方啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5770.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5798.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
這是解釋的問題啊好那鍾委員所以我現在的意思是這樣不管單方說我也覺得如果說待會決議是覺得可以置換這法律上沒有問題那我們也非常歡迎王委員一起加進來我現在很單純就是如果現在大家爭執這麼多你看我們已經浪費了一個小時都沒有決議我們是不是讓專業的法治局給他們一個10分鐘或20分鐘去討論然後由他們出來一個他們最後的結論我們就依據那個結論嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5799.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5808.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
如果他認為說可以換,那我們沒有意見,我非常歡迎,就是你了。稍微我只要提出一個問題,你馬上就毛色頓開啦。不然你認為46條之一是在處理哪一種狀況? |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5814.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5838.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
就很簡單,46條之一就是在整個議程還沒有結束之前比如說吳思堯他到最後他要國家外交部拜託他到哪一個國家去了我們就來換名單,吳思堯換某某某大家來裁定,就這麼簡單而已所以我現在的意思就這樣嘛因為大家對於法律的見解不一樣那我們就請專業的 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5840.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5862.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
法治局他們來討論結果大家一起遵循那我們就不會有爭議那不然再吵一個小時還是沒有結論那麼會吵那個張委員你法律的見解很深入但是現在是在委員會進行之中只需得是由他在裁定要不要捏 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5863.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5864.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5894.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5896.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
主席主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
6564.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
6566.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
主席主席主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
6587.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
6594.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
你讓王逸川今天穿西裝這麼沿道這麼對不對做好準備就不讓他來成為成員小組成員哪有這回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
7167.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
7193.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
好,那我們開始開會,欸,人怎麼都不見了?專業意見專業意見不是,那其他人不來嗎?我們等你啊,我們來這邊等你主席,直接到了,專業意見開始開會,不是大家都進來聽嘛,這樣等一下不會又再吵成一團了我們都很誠懇的在這邊那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
7196.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
7216.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
不是阿其他怎麼會有這樣阿你一定要等到其他人嗎不是會議時間開始了嗎蠻爭議的東西我希望大家再都聽一下大家意見嘛好不好那我們是不是請那個法治局說明一下就是以法治局為就是討論出來的結果那這跟個人無關就麻煩說明一下法規規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
7219.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
7238.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
主席、各位委員大家好那今天的那個議程主要是依據第11屆第2會期第10次院會的一個決議以及依據11月27日關係文書來辦理那我們尊重那個院會決議還有11月27號關係文書的相關規定辦理以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
7244.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
7253.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
所以你的意思關西文書跟法律未接誰高誰低呢?法治局我剛聽完他們的講話就說依據那個院會的決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
7257.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
7274.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
是依據院會的決議那我想說這個就是最後的結論我們就不要再爭執這個部門好嗎有有有有有有我覺得我覺得這樣啦像這麼多人在因為剛剛法治局已經說明他們的意見就是依據院會的決議那如果說今天我們還要再有不同那那 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
7276.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
7302.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
委員會決議沒有說不能換人啊我就舉一個很簡單的例子啦今天吳宗憲跟我莊瑞雄或者請裡面任何成員我們接受行政院的邀請都去當部長馬上就可以換人啊因為今天院會的決議院會的決議也沒有這幾個名單有啊院會決議沒有院會決議只有這個委員會要成立這個名單是今天開會才送到桌上的 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
7304.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
7325.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
院會決議沒有包括說不能夠來依據法規來更換名單院會決議當天沒有這些名單我覺得就是說我們剛已經請第三方法治局做出決定了就我們現在又要再回過頭去就法律去爭執 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
7328.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
7352.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
主席有話要講我跟妳講齁我就就依據法治局的建議因為我手上拿到的立法院的關係文書非常明確的就是有哪一些人都在上面然後另外錯錯錯你看討論事項也要更正啊也要更正不是嗎主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
7354.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
7366.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
還是說這邊有委員並沒有拿到我們上次那個通過的名單主席我問一句話就好好不好主席可不可以不要發言請問一下我尊重主席可不可以講話 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
7371.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
7392.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
主席我的問題我不是愛講話啊等一下,我不是愛講話欸我是剛提出問題你們沒有人回答你要法治局回答也可以啊吳宗憲、黃國昌、莊瑞雄等一下我們都接受行政院的邀請我們去當部長當然要換人啊民眾黨馬上可以補一個人國民黨補一個人民進黨補一個人啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
7394.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
7417.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
我都假設這種狀況啊那我可以講了齁我的意思是說46條之一就是這樣解釋啦這個哪有什麼好講的這個這三歲小孩都知道啊那我講話齁主席可以齁好來主席台灣對日本的冠亞軍戰啊先發名單都可以更換投手當然要罰款啦我們現在是已經比賽中了難道不能因為球員受傷換代打嗎現在這個情況就是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
7421.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
7446.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
你如果認為這是先發名單那假設說要更換先發名單要根據什麼程序過去有沒有一個運作的規則其次目前我們就算以棒球來比擬我們現在委員就像球員一樣有人受傷換代塔還需要回到大會去決定嗎主審就可以決定您就是主審啊主審你就可以決定我們受理那我還是再度請求我們這個討論事項是錯誤的 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
7448.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
7466.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
主席兩號傷害也要換代打我現在已經說得很清楚剛剛在休息之前我已經講很清楚了就是我們尊重專業的法治局他們對於法條的認定所給我的結論那剛剛法治局已經說得很清楚了是依據院會所交付的決議來 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
7467.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
7489.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
那院會給我的關係文書裡面的名單上面非常清楚那如果哪一位委員沒有拿到名單我們現在可以再提供給委員那因為名單上面呢就是我想各位手上應該有名單齁就是這些委員那剛剛法治局給我們的結論是這樣那我就依據這樣處理齁我剛剛說的很清在休息前我說的很清楚了 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
7490.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
7518.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
我們就是讓專業的立法院法治局去做出決定告訴我們法律上的建議那我就是依據他的建議處理其實我手很痠其實我手很痠我舉了這麼久主席超過3點了啦投票時間結束了啦如果你要跟我們說現在已經超過3點了你連禮票都不能領啊要不要回到大會去處理你看他們是不是寫的到3點截止尊重關係文書啊關於文書主席的決定就是現在就3點截止禮票了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
7519.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
7531.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
主席我舉手舉了這麼久主席我舉了這麼久不能講話嗎主席我不能發言嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
7549.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
7568.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
吳宗憲委員吳宗憲交委吳宗憲交委哈嘍看過來看過來看過來看過來不要眼光閃爍不要眼光閃爍啊我舉手這麼久不讓我發言主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
7570.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
7591.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
主席你舉手這麼久,為什麼我不能發言啊?老闆啊主席啊我不能發言啊先停止齁,我們已經讓我們多多的來選召委,就你們贏了就結束了,你就在這裡走不知道在走什麼我們先處理這件事情齁,謝謝各位那我們現在,沒關係啦我覺得今天大家既然要這樣那我們就請那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
7593.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
7616.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
哪位議事的人可不可以說明一下我們今天如果是委員會這邊我們的下午時間3點這個可不可以由主席來宣布變更換哪位議事的人說明一下3年前才可以啊3年後就不行啊3年前可以3年後當然不行啊如果你們的議事文書不是說要按照關係文書嗎議事文書關係文書都可以凌駕法律的話那當然就不行啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
7620.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
7624.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
結果你現在不知道怎麼主持突顯出我們調查委員會沒有議事規則這多荒謬啊調查委員會他沒有一套可以適用的議事規則所以主席你主持到一半你不知道怎麼主持你還得叫法治局去溝通去講20分鐘主席我沒有硬啊我現在是在講立法院行為行使法45條人數由院會議決 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
7649.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
7664.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
46條之一議決之後的人數我們可以要求改派我們都按照條文條文就長這樣那因為議事規則沒有出來你沒有辦法有適用的議事規則這個就是現在的矛盾現在的荒謬那謝謝蔡委員說明完畢了那可不可以讓我這邊來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
7669.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
7677.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
麻煩一下我在主持會議你們永遠一直這樣子插話讓我把話說完好不好因為我們舉手沒有用啊麻煩一下各位都這麼資深的委員了麻煩一下今天會議我在主持 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
7687.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
7717.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
我都不會有太多的意見我覺得今天非常的明確這邊有寫領票截止時間就是到投票截止時間到我看召集委員選舉截止時間到下午3點那我們就請議事人員說明這個下午3點可不可以在現在下午3點38分的時候做任何更動那如果不行那就不行可以就可以我覺得我們就一切依照法律規定不要在這邊各說各話的吵好不好謝謝各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
7717.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
7718.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
那我們請議事人員說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
7729.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
7756.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
好,報告委員會就是立法院各委員會組織法第4條之一各委員會之議程由輪值召集委員決定之好,報告完畢那如果由我這邊就可以決定那我們就把截止選舉的時間我們把它延長到那你為什麼不能決定更換名單呢你可以決定違反關係文書的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
7758.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
7786.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
你可以這樣決定白紙黑字寫說三點就完成投票你可以權力這麼大那現在我們依程序依法規提出來的更換人員你就不受理主席你的決定是完全依你自己的意識形態在決定欸他不是依意識規則他是依他的意識形態是依他的意識形態那為什麼你不能受理更換委員的名單呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
7787.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
7794.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
委員選舉委員名冊一號林思明委員、二號吳宗憲委員、三號徐希穎委員、四號徐希穎委員、三號徐希穎委員、四號徐希穎委員、三號徐希穎委員、四號徐希穎委員、四號徐希穎委員、四號徐希穎委員、四號徐希穎委員、四號徐希穎委員、四號徐希穎委員、四號徐希穎委員、四號徐希穎委員、四號徐希穎委員、四號徐希穎委員、四號徐希穎委員、四號徐希穎委員、 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
7814.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
7814.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
7830.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
7845.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
委員看到3點到了沒有投票就走了他沒有投投票怎麼辦主席請回答一下投票到3點怎麼有這麼不中立的議事人員怎麼有這麼不中立的議事人員議程剛剛就講到3點就是要這樣強度關山 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
7858.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
7880.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
就是要這樣不公正的主持你剛剛不是日式日程寫的這麼清楚到3點嗎?一個小時幾點開始算?到幾點?你們要開始現在?好,那就那個發票機唱票員有號那請問要推舉哪一位委員為計票跟監票員? |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
7883.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
7884.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
楊委員擔任計票跟監票員本次召集委員選舉截止時間我們剛剛已經有宣告過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
7902.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
7908.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
4點40分,如果所有委員已經出席完成投票就提前開票,請問有無異議? |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
7924.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
7945.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
就是現在開始的一個小時嘛那如果你要堅持延後兩分鐘四十二分也可以那就是四點四十二分一個小時一個小時對四十二分就四點四十二分不是啊你們這樣一直這樣鬧鬧你要你就一直定五點嘛好不好就定五點嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
7948.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
7952.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
本來我們宣告完你鬧一鬧然後又說時間又過我覺得大家不要爭執了那我們現在開始領票 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
7964.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
7967.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
到那個4點42分好不好4點42分那麻煩來領票領票領票領票對4點42 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
7979.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
7979.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
臨時委員一票 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
8006.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
8006.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
8025.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
8027.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
通知三點通知三點通知三點 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
8042.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
8064.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
怎麼就認定?臨時主席可以改變時間?如果不能改變名單就不能改變時間啊?你超過投票時間啊!超過投票時間啊!我們來找!我們來找啊!無效啊!沒辦法!超過投票時間!不要!黃毅昌等下子要來開會你不要拜託!超過投票時間!不要!黃毅昌等下子要來開會你不要拜託! |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
8068.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
8072.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
投票已經超過時間,不笑了啦!不笑了啦!不笑了啦!投票完了還在決定延長 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
8085.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
8085.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
8106.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
8109.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
兩點是不是在會議期間好不好?會議期間、投票期間什麼不中立? |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
8130.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
8134.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
投票時間的投票會有效 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
8159.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
8166.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
中間還有一個人,你要放棄你的權利嗎?他現在不投就是給你鬧到42% |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
8175.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
8183.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
不是啦,因為現在已經宣告到42分了,剛剛你有宣告到42分,他們42分都不會再出現了其實我們剛剛有請議事的人說明說可以更改這個時間嗎?因為昭緯決定,昭緯已經講完欸所以他們亂再投完啊?我們投完了今天大概到這了吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
8199.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
8209.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
要到42分他們來投完選完召委OK啦今天就OK啦不是啦他們從頭到尾就是來鬧我們其實今天換不換人我們也是贏的我們先在這裡啦到辦公室可以嗎?42分嗎?對 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
8222.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
8225.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
議事規則沒有改?沒有沒有那個沒改 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
8252.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
8253.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
11624.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
11626.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
宣告宣告宣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
11647.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
11668.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
修憲委員會有一個改推派蔡世應委員參加當時的做法是送議事處處理所以再麻煩民進黨團把提案委員的部分改為王逸川委員把資料送議事處處理謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
11670.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
11697.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
這個宣告有意義我們修憲委員會的地步那是修憲委員會我們現在成立的是調查委員會調查委員會依據的是立法院職權行使法第8章調查權之行使所以最新上個會期修法通過的46支一條的第一項有清楚明定調查委員會黨團得事狀況來予以更換成員 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
11699.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
11727.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
所以一碼歸一碼不要只入為碼修憲委員會過去的案例那個是過去修憲委員會各個修憲委員會也有他的修憲委員會的運作規範可是今天在處理的是調查委員會主席我只是要說這個才是是大有問題我們的議事人員要依據的是立法院職權行使法新通過的法律因為這個會議是調查委員會不是修憲委員會這完全是兩碼子事 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
11729.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
11748.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
當然這也於事無補了無論如何也就是要議事處處理但是這個宣讀不行喔這還是要講清楚主席代理主席的宣讀這都是立法院要議事文書要做成我們的議事記錄的不可以用錯誤的法條來援引不同性質的委員會不能將錯就錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
11749.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
11752.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
有會議請問我先回答一下吳孝偉的意見當然吳孝偉說的沒有錯依據46條之一他確實也是可以改判 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
11765.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
11784.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
改派程序就是依據 110 年 1629 日的做法我們是援引這個例子來做並不是說不能改派你應該要講援引46之一的立法院職權刑事法才對你不能夠用剛剛修憲委員會完全風馬牛不相及的事情46之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
11785.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
11792.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
所以你剛剛的宣讀要修正不是您剛剛一開始宣讀的東西援引那個修憲委會是完全錯誤的完全錯誤的原理 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
11798.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
11816.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
改派的那個做法就是依據我剛剛所說的那樣處理哪樣?可能要重新文字再處理一下好嗎?我再念一次我再念一次就是有關民進黨團提案改派為王逸川委員議案那請原力進送議事處處理好謝謝主席歡迎詢問好中委員剛剛你說的修憲委員會是不是有修憲委員會組織規程? |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
11822.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
11827.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
本會自召集委員5人由委員互選之二、本會會議由首次會議由委員互推一人為主席外以召集委員一人為主席,由各召集委員輪流擔任 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
11846.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
11867.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
修選委員會的組織規程這是根據立法院組織法第9條所設立的那請問目前我們的調查委員會我們這個調查委員會根據是我們的新的立執法的46條之一有沒有一個組織規程那如果沒有組織規程你要援引修選委員會的組織規程以這樣的方式所謂的更換或遞補 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
11868.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
11881.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
那你回答一下,我們有沒有組織規程嗎?我回答,我現在回答齁我從頭到尾沒有說過一句話說是援引修憲委員會的組織規程你剛剛不是唸了一串嗎?你把話說完,不要插嘴,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
11883.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
11901.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
我剛剛沒有用我沒有用任何一句話說我們是引用修憲委員會的組織規程我們是原例競送例子的例啦你剛剛原的不是修憲委員會的例我只是要告訴你原例用錯例子沒有我跟你講我已經說原例不是引用他的組織規程啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
11903.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
11904.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
11933.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
11957.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
王逸川所以這個是在會議應該要處理的事項所以你剛剛就是原當時這一個蔡適應的狀況但是他不是在會議中處理那我們今天的這個案是在會議中我們正式提案所以應該是你在當主席的時候你就必須要優先處理所以主席阿我來講你本身你也不愛聽不就要講你這樣的主席的意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
11958.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
11971.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
主持議事人違反了46條之一我們今天都是按照立法院行為行使法條文的文字來做會議上去做改派的一個要求結果你完全不處理我們的程序謝謝蔡委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
11974.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
11999.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
我這邊再回到剛剛所說的其實剛剛我們在會議主持的時候我們為什麼停下20分鐘就是我們希望這個議題我們交給最專業的立法院法治局去說明我們該怎麼做如果他給我們的結論跟我們剛剛不一樣不好意思我還在講話請尊重我所以我們剛剛的做法就是依據 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
12000.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
12022.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
立法院法治局給我們的決議去做的我也從來沒有跟他們講必須要給我答案是要或不要那我就依據他們法治上面給我們的建議我們就這麼做那議事人員也是經常性的會給我們法律上面的解釋那如果各位對於議事人員的解釋對於他們法律上面的解釋喔你們不認同那我們就是尊重你們不認同的那個意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
12027.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
12029.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
黃國昌一票黃國昌一票黃國昌一票黃國昌一票 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
12057.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
12078.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
黃國昌一票黃國昌一票黃國昌一票黃國昌一票黃國昌一票 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
12088.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
12099.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
黃國昌一票黃國昌一票黃國昌一票黃國昌一票黃國昌一票 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
12115.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
12131.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
主席可不可以回應請詢問主席 詢問一下你的宣告我們就認為無效啊你宣告那我還是把程序走完這種程序不完備的選舉有效嗎超過時間的選舉有效嗎原來今天整個都是為了護航黃國昌啊難怪這麼害怕黃國昌的剋星王逸川啊那由我這邊先把 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
12142.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
12169.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
那個選舉結果宣告完畢那出席委員13人那發出選票8張有效票數8張那無效票0黃國昌委員得票8張所以由黃國昌委員當選為本會本調查委員會召集委員請問各位委員就運作要點草案是否同意另則其處理請問有異議沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
12171.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
12176.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
主席會議詢問你剛剛是處理哪一項啊?你是處理選舉結果還是處理討論事項?你要處理選舉的事項還是討論事項?沒有討論事項那你剛剛選舉結果宣布完了我可以詢問嗎?可以嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
12196.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
12196.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
主席,我在詢問中勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
12222.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
12242.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
主席,主席,我們在詢問,詢問可不可以先回答?會議詢問,你是告訴我們嘛,法治局跟議事處是哪一個嘛?議案都處理完畢了。議案都已經處理...啊你不回答我的詢問。不是啊,我跟你說啦。我是跟著你剛剛的宣告,我等你,有耐心等你選舉結果宣告完,我才詢問的喔。我可以講了嗎?所以我在詢問問問嘛。蛤?我可以講話了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
12244.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
12272.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
好那我現在講的就很清楚就對於我們個人對於議事規則上面有什麼不清楚的地方那我會去請教對於議事規則最清楚的人那哪一個人我不需要我為什麼要不是啊那就這樣子那今天的會議都已經處理完畢了那謝謝大家選舉無效從頭到尾就是為了護航黃國昌的當選嘛所以從頭到尾就是為了黃國昌 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
12275.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
12282.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
這吳宗憲你不要當黃國昌的小弟啦剛剛討論事項其實應該是趙薇來宣布不是臨時主席來宣布 |
| IVOD_ID |
16330 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16330 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-02 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-02T13:30:02+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-02T16:54:00+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |