| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8398b1826590a609ff4632c59044642690a0be61fea14818a82e37f9ba35fd775cc818653d3ec8f65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-12-02T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第2會期第2次全院委員會「行使司法院院長、副院長及大法官同意權案」公聽會（事由：第11屆第2會期第2次全院委員會「行使司法院院長、副院長及大法官同意權案」公聽會） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 影片長度 |
12329 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:30 - 11:55:59 |
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1、2、1、2、3、1、2、3 |
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507.137 |
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515.18 |
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副院長、副院長及大法官同意權案 |
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537.062 |
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539.045 |
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法定人數不足 |
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552.675 |
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553.995 |
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主席主席主席 |
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579.798 |
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579.818 |
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公聽會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
602.329 |
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631.613 |
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會有一些各種法案期間會有一些行使司教育會有一些各種法案期間會有一些行使司教育會有一些各種法案期間會有一些行使司教育會有一些行使司教育會有一些行使司教育會有一些行使司教育會有一些行使司教育會有一些行使司教育會有一些行使司教育會有一些行使司教育會有一些行使司教育會有一些行使司教育會有一些行使司教育會有一些行使司教育會有一些行使司教育會有一些行使司教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
632.421 |
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634.022 |
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委員會主席委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
655.825 |
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661.409 |
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副院長、副院長及大法官同意權案 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
670.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
674.442 |
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副院長、副院長及大法官同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
698.217 |
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714.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
副院長、副院長及大法官同意權案 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
740.222 |
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741.364 |
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主席 |
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745.627 |
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767.786 |
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公聽會：第11屆第2會期第2次全院委員會:「行使司法院院長及大法官同意權案、副院長及大法官同意權案、副院長及大法官同意權案、副院長及大法官同意權案、副院長及大法官同意權案、副院長及大法官同意權案、副院長及大法官同意權案、副院長及大法官同意權案、副院長及大法官同意權案、副院長及大法官同意權案、副院長及大法官同意權案、副院長及大法官 |
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772.159 |
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773.659 |
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公聽會：第11屆第2會期第2次全院委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
801.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
801.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
副院長及大法官同意權案 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1772.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1794.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
謝謝各位學者專家早安我們華國昌委員早安各位本院的工作夥伴各位新聞界的好朋友非常非常感謝各位學者專家今天歷臨我們立法院參加司法院人事同意權的公聽會非常非常感謝我們是依照立法院本會期第9會期所作之決定辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1796.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1815.265 |
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一級中華民國憲法及憲法正義條文之規定司法院大法官直施解釋憲法、統一解釋法令及命令並組成憲法法庭審理總統、副總統之彈劾、政黨違憲、解散等相關事項在我國憲政制度上也具有崇高的地位本院 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1816.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1844.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
依憲法附託代表人民行使同意權針對每位被提名人之資格進行審查因此舉辦本次公聽會以作為審查之參考本次受各黨團推薦出席的學者專家均為我們領域內長期努力、深厚肯定的重要代表本院非常非常感謝各位學者專家的蒞臨各位參與的都是具備豐富的法學素養 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1846.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1863.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
相信一定能夠為立法院委員所提供非常寶貴的意見在此特別感謝各位對我們本次公聽會所做的各種準備發言針對今天公聽會的程序我們要先來做以下的公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1864.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
1890.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
以發言時間每位學者專家發表時間為10分鐘審查小組的委員每位委員時間同為10分鐘本院委員發言完畢之後再由學者專家代表綜合答覆30分鐘因此要特別請各位學者專家發表告見之後也能聽取本院各黨團所推派的委員代表之詢問發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
1892.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
1913.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
最後還要再請各位學者專家賜教答覆等今天整個議程圓滿結束後再行離開二、發言的順序我們先由學者專家發言賜由審查小組委員發言最後由學者專家綜合答覆相關的發言順序請參閱成立於各位桌上的名單 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
1915.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
1942.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
各黨團所舉建的學者專家、審查小組委員如果不在場得由各黨團互相調換次序另外在發言時間結束前我們會按一分鐘的發言一分鐘前我們會按一個短鈴發言時間見滿時我們會再按一個長鈴首先我們先熱情的歡迎我們介紹所有出席的各位學者專家我們首先歡迎林騰耀教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
1943.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
1968.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
熱情歡迎再來我們歡迎劉淑冰教授熱情歡迎第三我們歡迎林俊鴻教授熱情歡迎第四我們歡迎張介能教授熱情歡迎第五我們要歡迎洪偉聖教授還沒到場第六位我們熱情歡迎陳瑞仁教授熱情歡迎第七位我們熱情歡迎蘇彥圖教授熱情歡迎 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
1969.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
1970.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
主席、各位女士、各位先生 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
1999.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2025.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這個大家早針對今天公聽會的主題我提出了2300多字的書面發言題目是叫做末世憲政災難的法律人不事任大法官我這邊還有手冊上也有幾十篇有關近年來憲政災難的文章請大家參閱並指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2028.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2051.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
現在我另外來做一些口頭的表白最近這個大法官所做的實質廢除死刑和先告國會改革法案幾乎全部違憲的判決非常離譜已經使他們下落凡塵淪為憲政上的過街老鼠 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2052.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2075.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
讓人們對大法官的尊敬與信心全然消失為什麼呢?因為他們背離了憲政的三個核心理念憲政的三個核心理念是什麼呢?第一個是主權在民大家都知道廢除死刑是憲政大事 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2077.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2104.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
應該由主張廢除死刑的執政黨提出法案經過人民﹐代表人民的立法院公開討論並修改憲法而不是由大法官幾個人說了算因為主權在民﹐不在大法官主權應該由代表人民的立法院行使大法官不能成為太上立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2105.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2112.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
大法官宣告國會改革方案幾乎全部違憲的判決完全背離了這個憲政核心理念 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2129.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2157.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
哪裡有行使國家最高統治權、最大行政權的人可以不向國會報告不接受代表人民立委的質詢又哪有不接受代表人民立委的調查監督可以在國會殿堂裡說假話不提供資訊或提出假消息圖黑資料、藐視立法院、藐視人民而不必接受處罰的全世界沒有這樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2159.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2183.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
憲政的第三個核心理念是什麼呢就是責任政治就是行使國家最高統治權、最大行政權的人要對人民負責這也就是說行使國家最高統治權、最大行政權的人在用人、用權、辦事等方面都要向人民報告要對人民負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2184.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2199.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
故大法官吳征就說過總統已經是最高行政首長了如果不必向代表人民的立法院報告並接受執行那是違背責任政治核心理念的 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2201.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2214.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
大法官先告國會改革法案幾乎全部違憲的這個判決讓賴清德跟蔡文一樣淪為一個在憲政上能夠講話像放屁一樣的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2215.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2243.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
蔡英文對人民所承喜諾的憲政改革、國會改革、司法改革、交易改革、財政距離改革、稅制公益改革、政府效能改革、解決世代貧富差異等全部都跳票就像憲政屁話一樣隨風而逝同樣的賴清德說要到立法院做報告現在卻以國會改革法案違憲的這個大法官判決不是報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2245.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2254.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
完全漠視在用人用權辦事等方面要對人民報告要對人民負責的憲政核心理念又 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2256.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2283.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
賴清德2019年6月4日接受媒體專訪時表示未來如果當選總統要結合朝野推動憲政改革將台灣改為內閣雙首長制除了行政院長任命一定要立法院同意外還要讓立委兼任部會首長避免執政與民意脫節但這些是不是也像蔡英文的憲政屁話一樣嗎隨風而逝 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2285.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2313.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
現在就要談談耐心者所提出的大法官提名人他們可以得到人民的信任並同意嗎當然是不可以啊就像我書面發言所說的默示憲政災難的法律人不事任大法官例如被提名為司法院院長的張文貞是國會改革事業案民進黨陣營指定的鑑定人強烈主張國會改革迴憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2315.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2343.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
這是非常離譜的一個人被提名的司法院院長：副院長的姚立明則是耐心的總統進行總部的主委難怪基層法官會炸鍋在法官論壇表示總統事先報恩選舉報得真快又大法官提名的廖福特承認民進黨仲裁委員會主委而更是離譜 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2344.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2371.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
前幾天還跟我打電話他都是我的學生幾十年沒聯絡那為了我要來這個公聽會他還打電話真是不知道他是什麼樣一個人政治大學法律系教授何耐傑是一個太陽花懸殞富豪者可明顯看出他們親近民進黨的政治傾向至於劉靜儀、張文貞、陳映彩多軍附和民進黨黨綱的廢死主張 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2373.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2401.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
但在蔡英文掌控國會多數騎士前面執政的八年期間並未督促民進黨人修改刑法規定意圖由大法官凌駕民意、夜處待跑的廢時那這群法律人當上大法官後會尊重民意、健全法治嗎?這八年來憲政已經被蔡英文 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2402.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2429.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
賴清德無情的破毀但賴清德所提出的這些大法官、副院、提名人對憲政的破毀卻盡若寒蟬沒有吭聲相反的還要助賴清德跟蔡英文為虐那他們也恐怕會像現任的大法官一樣成為咬壞國民主權布袋的憲政老鼠 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2430.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2451.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
立法院絕不應同意他們出任大法官現在還有幾分鐘我特別講一講過去的一些大法官所建立的這些老百姓對大法官的信心已經破壞掉了在7月29號的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2452.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2480.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
我接到電話然後就是一位我們年近近百的已經將要百歲的一個前任大法官翁岳昇他要我到他的住家去談一談因為他在聯合報看到我的文章然後他說要我去談談然後他就談一下他們過去他說他是一個鄉下的熊谷小孩從台南他第一次看到報紙是在台南 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2481.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2482.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
副院長：第11屆第2會期第2會期 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2505.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2530.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
他就考進那個師範考進師範以後然後就師範師篆師篆畢業以後他就去服務服務完以後就認真地在考上那個台大然後轉變了他的身份地位他說他很感謝過去的政府啊讓這個窮人可以翻身然後他跟我提到他他很有幸的參加了500多號的大法官四字的解號 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2531.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2555.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
他做印象最深刻他做了一些事情第一個就是他提到了他這個審檢分立還有這個國會改革國會那個民意代表不能繼續再改的所以他這個他做到了他對於憲政的制衡呢非常的重視但是現在呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2557.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2572.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
這些大法官 背離他的基本上的信念甚至被林作水罵過林作水是民進黨的前任委員 罵得很兇啊所以這些人 讓那個太陽從西邊出來的大法官真是不要臉 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2574.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2591.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
所以我們可以看到過去的前輩還另外一個就是王哲健是我的老師我在9月7號跟他打個電話他對於我們現行的這個大法官的制度認為這已經過時了而且非常不良應該要全面的改革 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2593.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2619.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
那麼我這裡就談到過去的這些法律人都非常的注意這個憲政的這個破壞如果破壞的話他一定會改良他一定會利用那個司法大法官司法院大法官去改善他現在呢是助紂為虐所以現在所提出的這幾個大法官人選立法院不應該同意他們出任大法官謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2621.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2647.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
謝謝林滕耀教授的發言我們補充接下來我們請劉素冰教授請發言謝謝好謝謝主席很高興有這樣的機會來進行這樣的一個公聽會的參與我們知道憲法法庭或者是說大法官最大的功能是做什麼就是做違憲審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2649.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2665.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
維新審查是在民主國家基於防禦性民主的需求而成立的作為一個憲法的守護者最重要的必須要具備有專業的素養而且還必須有操守 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2666.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2667.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
民主國家的違憲審查制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2689.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2709.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
還有在書面上面的資料也有在說美國是屬於分散型的是各級的法院都會對判決的案件或者是說法條做違憲的審查行使在德國的部分它是另外設立了憲法法院來去行使產生是全任制 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2710.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2736.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
台灣本身是承襲德國體制經由大法官組成憲法法庭適用立法院提名、立法院同意的任命制來進行我們看看台灣的憲法訴訟審理案件當中有哪些項目這些項目當中依照的是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2738.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2739.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
《行使司法院院長、副院長及大法官同意權案》 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2752.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2769.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
法規範審查、機關權限的爭議、總統、副總統的彈劾案還有政黨違憲審查、地方自治保障等等這幾項前面的五項當中是非常政治性的因為它會涉及到的是政黨的利益還包括的是地方跟中央的關係另外的 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2772.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2773.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2803.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2831.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
我們看到過去的這個情況在2008年到2024年的這個情況之下因為馬英九跟蔡總統他有這個兩任的連任那他們大法官的人選相對於就是相對的會受到一個單一政黨的這樣的一個偏好所影響那這樣子可能會產生就是說有時候特別保守或者是特別激進或是甚至會有時候保護執政黨利益的這種情況出現 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2832.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2854.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
今年2024年1月13日之後有了不一樣的狀況他出現的是一個少數的總統他目前的情況在立法院是屬於分立總統的形式這樣所形成的情況是行政跟立法的衝突就會特別的明顯當然跟中央跟地方這種爭議也會比較多 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2857.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2878.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
因此會申請違憲審查的情況也預期是會在這一個任期當中是多的我們也看到是在2022年等於說是民國111年的時候1月4號開始憲法訴訟法生效這邊就特別強調它是一個全面的法庭化 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2879.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2881.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
法官的判決形式 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2895.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2910.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
那當然他的司法化也必須要去解決所謂的爭端那這時候呢大法官他越超越黨派獨立行使審判權的這樣的一個就顯得更為的必要了那我們繼續看看那我剛才已經說了 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2911.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2935.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
台灣的憲法的審查制度是師承德國的這邊我們就來對照一下德國的憲法法院的法官憲法法院法裡面對於裡面的法官資格是怎麼樣認定的就像剛才林滕耀教授有提到說可能都必須要做一些改革那我們就來提供德國的經驗就在於第一個我們看到的是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2942.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2956.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
我具備他從法官的這個資格條件來說起那德國呢他是參眾兩院來去選來去選出這個兩個院的各八名的這個大法官所以注意喔他是由兩個院參議院跟眾議院去選舉出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2959.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
2976.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
他們要求的條件,因為他竟然是最高的法院,所以他必須具備法官法裡面的法官資格另外,兩個院當中必須有三個人是聯邦最高法院的法官或是他必須具備有聯邦議員的候選資格 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
2982.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3002.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
如果說他本身是聯邦議員的話呢聯邦眾議員的話呢他就必須是也是過去是有法學而且是有法官背景的這個狀況好那這個代表的是說他因為他因應到這個建馬法院的這個裁判的話他必須要有辯證跟他的這個過程他都必須熟悉所以他作為一個司法審查機關必須有這個條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3003.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3015.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
台灣在司法院的組織法當中第4條當中羅列這6項但是我覺得這些條件事實上都還比我們現在法官法當中的條件更為寬鬆門檻是比較低的 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3019.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3027.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
第6項是研究法學、富有政治經驗、生育卓著我整理了目前被提名的七位大法官當中有具備法官資格的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3045.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3064.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
就只有應該就只有大家可以看到在右邊的部分法官或是律師資格這就只有三位就是這個何碩傑這個王碧芳跟這個劉靜儀就有司法官考官的資格這一部分來看看那這部分的資料完全是根據立法院給的這個公報裡面的內容去呈現的 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3068.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3084.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
第二部分德國憲法法院的法官資格必須要超出黨派來獨立行使職權德國的部分是透過參眾議院選出來的他符合的地方跟中央的關係還有政黨在 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3085.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3113.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
中立院的實力顯出一種協調狀況那在台灣呢我們可以看到在七位的這個被提名當中有人是當過台北市的市長的競選總幹事他也曾經當過民進黨的總統候選人的競選總幹事這關係就非常的顯著政黨傾向那另外也有人是擔任執政黨的仲裁委員會的這個主委的這個情況那大家就可以看到在右邊裡面的這邊的顯示就呈現出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3115.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3135.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
第三個部分還有年齡的規範為什麼呢?因為你要學一個大法官他本身需要非常燒腦的工作是一個勞力勞動的工作所以他必須要具備相當的精力在這個情況之下德國是規定說超過68歲就要強制退休我們台灣是沒有規範可是大家可以看到是在這次的 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3144.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3170.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
這個年齡當中被提名當中有人高達72歲齁然後其他這部分齁大家也有將近60歲那如果要任期8年的話這個部分可能要斟酌一下齁這部分好那我們看看第4點呢德國的憲法法院法當中還針對特殊領域的專才這邊有一些規範齁那為什麼會有這樣的規範呢在於說他特別是針對的司法與消費者保護部裡面特別重視他認為說這個地方呢是 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3172.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3183.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
對於目前在人權或者是保護是特別重要的所以他們就交由這個部會提交法官的人選建議名單給參眾2月的黨團拿去作為一個參考提名的標準那台灣並沒有這樣的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3190.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3210.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
但是我國省市我國的情況之下是在我國對於消費者保護、數位保護、勞動者跟婦幼的保護的這部分上是極度的不足但是在目前提名的7位的被提名當中都偏向憲法、行政法跟刑法類的顯示出來有相當大的沒有去可以反映到保護弱勢的這種情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3212.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3233.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
這邊也看到這個資訊是在這上面出來大家可以看到這個底壁的資料上面就是我剛剛所說的憲法還有刑法的部分還有行政法的部分最後這個地方就是說提供德國的這個經驗來作為說未來修法或是在各位立法委員他們在提名就是在做審同意權的行使的時候能夠做一個參考那就謝謝各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3235.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3257.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
謝謝劉書斌教授,謝謝林漢。我要補充介紹一下,剛才已經到國民黨的吳宗憲委員,他可能現在跑去質詢,等一下再回來。現在在鍾嘉斌委員,民進黨的,另外民進黨的書記長蔡易瑜委員也都到現場了,再次感謝。接下來第三位,我們請林俊宏教授,請表達寶貴的意見,謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3262.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3280.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
主席、在場的各位委員、各位先進大家好今天很榮幸可以來這邊參與這一次的公聽會我想這一次關於大法官同意權的行使其實在這段時間國內的氛圍其實是一個非常非常重要的一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3281.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3295.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
畢竟最近這段時間又涉及到憲法訴訟法的修法的爭議那到底我們的憲法法庭能不能夠正常的運作我想在這件事情上在大法官的人士同意權的行使絕對是一個非常關鍵而且非常重要的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3297.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3315.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
那我想先一開始先說明的是說關於大法官這個位置的一個角色我想大家應該都很清楚大法官在我們的憲法裡面的地位他其實是我們的憲法守護者那可是其實我們最近會聽到一些聲音或者是有一些不同的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3316.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3337.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
對於大法官的想法可能有一些不一樣的概念因為他們認為說大法官的部分是不是要全然的要配合的民意或者是說他們對於憲法的解釋100%都不能跟民意有所違背或者是與民意的或多數的意見有不同的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3338.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3354.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
那我想這個部分可能是不是誤解了大法官他本身的特質大法官本身的特質就有一種抗多數決的一種特質那之所以大法官會有抗多數決的特質在於是說因為我們憲法本質上是一種開放性的規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3355.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3371.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
那也就是說在一定程度的標準或者是在一定的架構之下大法官可以在這個規範的內容內去選擇他的憲法價值跟理念那這也是我們國家或者是我們的憲法上賦予大法官的一個職責 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3373.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3402.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
那我們要如何去控制這個部分的大法官該如何去行使這樣的事情會不會濫刑的部分呢我想第一個部分我們在制度的設計上第一個部分當然是我們在這邊同意權的行使我們在讓他上任之前對他對於憲法理念的闡述對於憲法相關議題的辯證然後我們透過我們的國會代表們進行審查去理解說我們每一位大法官對於憲法價值的看法是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3403.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3422.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
那第二個部分它的核心是什麼?第二個部分它的核心在於是大法官們對於憲法判決的論述跟內容我們必須要去看待每個憲法的判決它不是一個單純的一個結論而已喔它必須要有一個論辯式的結構跟充分的說理 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3422.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3439.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
那這也是我們目前大法官們或者是我們憲法訴訟的制度所在進行的我們在憲法訴訟法制度通過之後我們開始了公開審理我們引進了外部的專家的證人讓外部專家證人可以在法庭上表示意見我們的大法官可以在法庭進行詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3441.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3461.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
也就是說其實透過憲法法庭審理的流程或者是整個程序我們可以看得到或者是我們可以聽得到大法官對於每個憲法價值的選擇他的依據是什麼他的標準是什麼那甚至於他即便是不同意我們的憲法的主文或者是相關的意見大法官他還是可以出具 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3461.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3474.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
不同意見書或協同意見書我想如果大家有關心我們的憲法法庭或者大法官所做的裁判這幾年的協同意見書不同意見書的數量其實非常非常的多那這個部分我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3475.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3502.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
是必須要先認清這樣子的一個基本的事實那第二個部分是我想要特別提的是在審理的時候其實剛剛或者是從歷來我們一直聽到一些聲音說我們對於大法官的選擇上我們只要注意到說他過去曾經發表了某個意見過去他曾經擔任了某個職務過去他參與了某個活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3503.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3515.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
就等於這個人不適任我想人是一個非常社會化的動物每個人都一定有參與的活動跟他參與的生活領域範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3519.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3536.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
不可能有一個人他是一個從來不參與任何活動不表達任何的意見在社會上都跟大家講說我是一個中立客觀的人然後最後被我們的國家機關挑選進來成為大法官的被提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3537.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3564.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
他畢竟必然一定是在社會上有一些意見的表達參與了相關的活動或者是相關的團體然後大家覺得說這位大法官這位人選其實是非常的專業而且他的憲法價值接受肯定或者是表現上深獲大家的讚許在這種狀況下才會有可能被提進來然後由所有的大法有國會們來進行審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3566.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3588.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
所以這個是一個本質上理所當然的事情那其實在之前的聲音我們注意到的就是說我們常常看到的是因為他有單一的意見單一的聲音單一參加單一的團體就認為說噢不適任可是我們有真的好好的去想過說他除了當這些特定事件的單一聲音單一的活動參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3591.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3619.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
這種狀況他有影響到他對於憲法的價值的捍衛或者是他的憲法的論述嗎我們應該要討論的不是他對於憲法價值的捍衛跟憲法的論述到底內容到底是不是合理是不是充分是不是完整嗎這個不是我們應該要審理大法官所要做的事情嗎那一再的用類似貼標籤的模式就跟大家講說你參加過什麼所以你不是任 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3620.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3630.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
你講過什麼?所以你不適任?我覺得這樣子的一個審查邏輯跟審查模式是對於我們的人民是非常非常的不負責任的 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3632.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3658.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
我認為國會議員在進行相關大法官的審查的時候應該要具體去了解的是我們這一些大法官的被提名人他們過去的人權履歷是什麼他們的人權操守是什麼他們的學識他們的專業經驗他們的憲政人權理念是什麼這一些才是我們要找到合適的大法官所應該要做應該要去找的而不是先告訴我們說他擔任過什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3660.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3678.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
當任過什麼我覺得這件事情當然重要我們對於基本的履歷這些是很重要的我們的司法院組織法也有規定了一些相關的行事規範那這些行事規範其實我觀察了這次的大法官提名人從形式上這些規範是符合司法院組織法的相關規範的那 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3681.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3690.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
在接下來的步就是那各位國會議員們你們想要怎麼樣去了解他的對於憲政價值的一些看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3692.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3713.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
其實我們大法官所處理的事情其實非常的多元除了前一陣子比較有爭議的憲政機關的爭議以外其實有98%的案件類型是在處理人民基本權利也就是說他必須要去考量到人民基本權利在整個憲政體制架構下該如何理解該如何解釋 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3715.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3743.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
那我想我們這一些判決們非常非常的多我就不再一一的去羅列或者去念這一些東西可是這邊我要特別提到的就是說我們在選擇大法官的時候不是一直去看說今天這個大法官是誰提名的或者是說他過去比較傾向哪一邊重點是他對於人權的價值憲法的價值的捍衛到底談了什麼事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3745.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3767.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
所以我覺得這個是國會議員應該要去注意的第二步接下來要談的就是說我們審查的界限是什麼那審查的界限其實我們觀察這次立法院執行司法被大法官這一次被宣告違憲之後那回到觀察我們的委員們怎麼去了解我們的大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3767.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3785.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
我想今天就是一個很棒的一個狀態今天就是一個審查會那接下來更進一步的審查會應該是透過立法委員們、審查小組們去了解每一位大法官到底在想什麼我覺得比較核心的是實質的提問而不是形式上給予一定的標籤 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3786.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3811.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
當然我們可以從文獻上我們去觀察美國他們在審他們的憲法法院的法官的時候他們會有基本上還是可以問當然回不回答跟我們的大法官的理解應該我自己的理解上沒有差太多這個是你要不要被選任的問題那個是責任的問題可是你不能去問說你對於特定的判決還沒有做出來的判決的看法這個應該是司法倫理的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3812.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3813.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3840.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3858.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
無關的事項我覺得也不應該是國會議員所應該要去接觸的因為這個部分還是大法官在113的憲判9也講得很清楚雖然他們來參與這邊做審查基本上他們的隱私權、基本人格權這些基本權利還是受到我們憲法所保障的 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3858.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3867.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
所以在這樣子的範疇事實下都不應該特別去問那所以好時間到我先講到這邊好了謝謝院長各位大家好 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3889.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3892.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
很高興國會能夠讓我有這個機會在國會的殿堂來參加這個公聽會 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3898.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3919.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
各位都知道我本身不是學法律但是我今天所以能夠過來也敢過來只要是以我一個當事人的身份我相信以我這個被害人所經歷的過程可以給審查有一些參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
3921.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
3949.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
案情我會簡略明天12月3號就是我太太遇害10週年在10年前的那一天我太太在高雄市最熱鬧的哈羅市場上午去買菜等到我下班還沒回家我去在哈羅市場找到她在還沒找到她之前我先去報案 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
3951.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
3963.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
警察告訴我你最好再回去車子裡面因為我已經找到車子可是車子看不到因為天已經黑了看不到車子裡面的情形我才去報案 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
3965.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
3981.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
受了警察的嘱咐叫我再回去查結果正好學尋幫我找我太太的我妹妹跟我妹夫因為那一天晚上我太太要分發她團購的骨坑的有機 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
3983.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4010.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
紐丁找不到我太太,也一起協尋,後來找到了找到車子的地方,我妹夫手電動力照,說他在車子的後座腳踏板的地方我們趕快要搶救,趕快把車門打開正在打開,那一幕我就不再多說,警察來了,就封鎖現場這是過程,我相信經歷過這樣一個晴天霹靂 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4013.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4037.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
所受的感受應該是難以忘懷好 那麼我要跟各位報告歷經這十年我們從一審、二審、更一到更三五次的判死刑到最後最高法院根據今天討論有關係的大法官的第八號 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4038.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4067.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
的視線根據這個案子認為我們的案子是非犯罪嚴重之罪所以從死刑改判從死刑改判無期徒刑我首先要跟各位報告改判無期台灣的無期大家都很清楚就是有期這是第一點第二點他的無期其實就是對我們家的無期的痛苦的宣判 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4069.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4092.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
這是我先要告訴各位以我親身的經歷那麼這個過程裡面我經歷了這麼多的審判我感到以下的非常的不平等那麼也是提出來給各位做參考第一點我從更衣審開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4093.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4121.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
對方是由法律輔助基金會派的三位辯護人本人是犯罪被害人保護協會所屬法務部的派我一個這是不公平光實現上來講就是不公平了這是第一點第二點性侵案我們的案子是經過性侵然後是他 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4125.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4154.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
槌擊我太太的頭部槌擊之後她想要開車車子都發動了可是呢發不動不曉得按鎖在哪裡又再問然後呢又再槌這個從行車紀錄器裡面我們都聽到槌擊的聲音然後我太太的學生攜帶的小花包拉鍊被拉開的聲音零錢散落在車子裡面的聲音 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4155.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4159.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
等等然後呢最後我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4160.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4187.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
在一審還有爭審的時候的資料對方都說搶了多少錢多少錢可是到最後法庭要我們提出尤其是最高法院發回更審的主要理由就是要我們提出我們被搶2000塊的證據請問你被搶了你買的東西都不一定知道是2000塊何況是被搶的人而且已經死亡了就是我 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4189.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4213.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
首先趕到不平等的地方最後在9月20號大法官事件案第8號公布之後最高法院馬上兩個禮拜馬上火速的判決我太太是非犯罪嚴重之罪犯人是非犯罪嚴重之罪所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4216.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4240.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
改判無期徒刑這是第一點請問什麼叫做最嚴重之罪大法官有沒有辦法幫我們解釋人權裡面應該含有被害人的人權可是我發現我們的被害人尤其是被害人的遺屬我是身為告示人在法庭上完全沒有地位我沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4243.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4267.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
決論權我沒有預見權我要講話還要到最後一次被法官被動的指定我才有機會講話講完話覺得不夠我要補述書完全沒有接受到回應美國日本有所謂的終身監禁也有保留死刑我不知道我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4269.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4297.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
得法律為什麼就不會要保留這樣的終身監禁至少還可以安慰我們被害人的遺屬為了台灣沒有辦法下法美國跟日本最高法院的法官可以在庭上引導被告的辯護人說你2000塊的證據你怎麼沒有找到是我幫你找到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4300.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4327.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
今天在國家的最高殿堂我一定要而且這個法院的法官目前在地方法院當一個院長中間是不是有什麼貓膩我不知道最高法院的五位何以廷的法官可以重複的審理而不必迴避這個法律我不懂所以我提出來給大家做思考性侵殺人搶劫可以分開審理來量刑嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4331.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4356.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
搶車車子沒有開走就是沒有構成搶劫就是搶劫未遂嗎?被告在檢警真審模擬陳述犯案的內容的時候在各個法院審理中後面他就翻工了請問你怎麼樣認定是真是假是不是剛開始的真審的過程還有一審的資料是最明確 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4359.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4381.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
犯罪人記憶最深刻的時候是不是更應該可以相信結果他只要一翻工大家都不認了很奇怪請問大家思考一下預謀殺人是怎麼樣的認定是預謀對象我要殺你就一定殺你才是預謀嗎還是預謀的工具有準備工具就是預謀 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4383.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4406.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
還是以上都要有我們不知道因為我們這個案子就是以非預謀殺人來做判定改成無期的精神鑑定心理衡鑑要多少次是不是可以指定醫院可以指定良心的那個學者來做良心我們就是這樣非常的很奇怪 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4409.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4432.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
被害方如何提出被搶錢的數目 剛才有提到假如無法被提出來 是不是就是搶劫未遂 或者是沒有搶何衛廷的定義 是不是多數決 我不知道因為法官 大法官講你要判死 一定要每一個法官通通沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4433.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4460.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
統統要贊成判死才有有五個法官判全部全訴決就是二分之一的五次方三十二分之一當然全部不判死的機率也是三十二分之一我講的意思是全訴都同意是不是違背了何義廷的精神所在最後我要勉勵了 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4463.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4490.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
關其所矣、查其所有、查其所安、視其所有、人焉所哉剛才有律師講你不能以前那是所作所為我倒是認為以前的所作所為正好可以當作你審驗他的一個參考我們期望的是臺灣的司法不要崩潰你親民崇高的人格專業就是我們萬民所依賴的謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4495.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4498.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
辛苦了張建仁教授辛苦真的是非常非常的 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4500.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4528.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
聽了很感動很難過好接下來我們請登記第5號的洪偉聖教授請給我們寶貴意見謝謝謝謝主席還有在座的各位委員各位先進那我想聽了剛才張教授的這個發言是非常遺憾但是這個他提到的非常多的問題事實上是大院之權關於刑法實體法或者是刑事訴訟法關於被害人保護之間的 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4529.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4554.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
可以進一步的再精進調整的問題那跟大法官是不是必然有關這個可以再思考尤其是我在這邊可能要比較斗膽的提醒一點就是說民主憲政國家設定司法權之所以不將報復或者是說應對的工具或手交給被害人我相信在憲政上是有特定的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4555.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4580.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
那這個是我在開始之前做的一點點小小的感想跟提醒那其實今天來也要再次的感謝大院在繼去年之後再次的邀請來參加這個大法官的同意權的審查會那其實在來之前這個我一直在想一些問題就是說當然這一陣子我想社會上或者是大院對於學位是非常的這個在意啦那我自己其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4581.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4602.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
因為也有一些學位但是我一直在出門前我的女兒她是國中那她問我說爸爸你要來這邊做什麼我說我這個是大法官的審查會那她說我們現在學校的公民課正好在教這個總統提名立法院同意那到底這一次的大法官或司法院院長的提名遇到了什麼問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4603.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4620.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
我就在想說我或許對他應該用幾個不需要學位來思考的問題讓他來懂這一次的爭議來思考這些問題那我就想到一件事情或許你要說我蹭棒球就是說聽台灣這個風潮其實現在還意猶未盡 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4625.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4639.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
我自己問了一件事情如果說這一次的Team Taiwan的對職員名單必須要經過賴總統的提名立法院同意後通過在現在的這樣子的政治氛圍之下我們會是什麼樣的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4642.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4642.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
公聽會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4659.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4670.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
我們的台灣隊長陳捷憲他是賴總統始終支持的同意隊來自於同意隊的我覺得他不會通過因為我們會用這些理由來考慮這個同意權 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4674.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4693.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
其實坦白說,這是大家起個門心自問,就是說是不是現在我們的國會,或者是政治生態,我也不覺得是單純的國會的問題啦那甚至是堅稱在記者會上說自己是台灣隊的潘潔凱,他也是來自於同一隊,又是賴總統支持的球隊,我覺得他也不會通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4695.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4712.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
那這個情況,到底台灣現在的政治僵局打算怎麼辦?更不用說領隊的蔡會長,他是我們民主進步黨的立法委員要通過同意權我是覺得不可能那我們這樣子的台灣隊還成隊嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4715.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4731.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
那剛才其實幾位委員也提到其實坦白說我剛才坐在這裡的時候覺得說好像我時間跟地點都跑錯地方為什麼說時間跑錯地方呢?立法院職權行使法的這個憲法法庭的辯論其實大家都花了很多的時間也都很精彩的論辯那沒有想到在這邊還要繼續再做論辯 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4734.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4753.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
實行案的論辯其實不只是有憲法法庭的延遲辯論一整天甚至還有其他的很多的討論那在這邊好像也要再談這個事情憲法訴訟法我相信大院也會另外辦公聽會審查那在這邊也要談所以我覺得說我的10分鐘好像要 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4755.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4775.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
這個跑錯時間跑錯棚但是我還是要談一件事情就是說現在的憲法訴訟法的修正當然民間已經有很多的不適當的聲音但是我只要再問一件事情就是說這一次其實在民間我看也有一些這個先進發表文章討論說沒有關係我們可以提高門檻 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4777.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4790.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
或者是說10個人或9個人沒有關係反正我只要通過一個或兩個讓他還是可以運作就好了這個其實也是可以用一個很簡單的類比棒球賽9個人就可以打了 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4790.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4810.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
那是不是我們就給聽台灣9個球員的名單就夠了更不用說以現在媒體揭露出來部分委員可能屬一的人選譬如說黃碧芳法官我也看到有針對張文正院長表示認可的 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4812.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4838.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
但是各位要想到我們給9個人認為人數足夠但是可以不考慮守備位置嗎?我們可以給9個投手嗎?我們可以給9個補手嗎?我們可以給或者是說我們可以給足9個人但是裡面有兩位投手卻沒有補手嗎?這個是非常需要嚴肅思考的問題所以我回頭來看這一次的大法官的這個審查我大概有幾樣的思考第一個就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4840.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4857.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
其實這一次的大法官的被批評的身手當然其中因為我目前是台灣法學會的理事長其實台灣法學會要有這個台灣這個名字得來不易事實上也是大法官的這個貢獻過去我們是不能夠用台灣的名字來叫台灣的任何的人民團體的 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4858.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4886.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
我目前因為是台灣法學會的理事長也是台灣國際法學會的秘書長所以針對其中的幾位被提名人譬如說張文貞教授、何賴傑教授、廖福特教授或者是劉靜儀教授都因為在學會上的互動有比較多的觀察或許可以提供給大院做觀察第一個就是說在首備位置上面如果看現在仍然在憲法法庭當中的大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4887.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4901.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
如果要說跟憲法這次憲法法庭跟憲法公法專攻的目前說起來只剩下這個蔡中正大法官一位勉強可能還有這個楊大法官因為他過去是行政法院的院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4903.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4923.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
目前沒有其他的大法官真的是以憲法行政法作為專攻的那更不用說我們其實在這個陳英才大法官被提名的這個報告當中也提到我們非常多的憲法案件是跟刑法有關的我們急需補充這個刑法背景的大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4923.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
4945.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
那這一次的提名其實可以看得出來是非常堅固這樣子的這個被提名的身手 被提名的人身手講白了這些被提名人 從張文貞這院長的被提名人是耶魯大學的法學博士他指導教授是這個Bruce Ackerman是在美國針對憲法變遷的這個頂尖的好手 頂尖的學者 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
4945.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
4961.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
那更不用說 譬如說像這個 廖福特教授他是牛津大學 這不是在台灣的大聯盟這是世界的大聯盟的選手那他的指導教授叫Paul Gregg如果對於歐盟法有研究的話會知道他出了叫做經典的歐盟法的教科書 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
4963.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
4982.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
在臺灣這些具有像劉靜儀教授、何大傑教授等等甚至是我們的王碧芳法官可以看到他們的身手都是一等一的身手而且在守備位置上都能夠兼顧各個位置我是非常的 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
4983.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
4997.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
斗膽地警請大院能夠考慮剛才我提到那些點能夠謹慎、理性地來思考這次的提名讓他們通過那更不用說就像我剛才提到的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5000.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5016.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
抱歉喔這個有點跳掉齁這個就像我剛才提到的這些被提名人的這個在憲法法庭的領域跟需求齁目前真的是急需急需補上啦那更重要就是我剛才提到的這也不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5018.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5035.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
其中只有一兩個人行的問題更不是其中只要挑一兩個人同意的就好的問題我尊重這個大院針對特定的人選或許有不同的意見但是就像我提到的這一份名單裡面是來自於各國的好手 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5036.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5053.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
來自於各個領域的好手不是只有一兩個人行更不是只有通過一兩個人讓他同意只要勉強過關有9個人有10個人就好的問題我們憲法規定有15位大法官表示15位是我們認為需要來自於不同領域的人選 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5054.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5080.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
那這一點我們是非常警醒的大院能夠審慎的來思考那最後還是要提一點就是說其實破壞容易建設難我相信要指摘這些這個大法官提名人的個別你如果要這個雞蛋裡挑骨頭吹毛球汁或許都能夠把它破壞掉但是在這個提名的過程當中因為我本身也是律師公會也是台灣法學會我們也參與前階段的這個推薦 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5082.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5096.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
可以知道這中間要能夠答應點頭是需要多大的決心跟勇氣如果說大院真的對於這些名單有不同的意見我只有一個很小的請求就是能不能夠真的具體提出一個具體的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5097.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5123.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
而且他是已經點頭答應說如果我被提名我會願意出任的人不要透過私下協商用喬的方式來做而是就把這個名單端出給社會讓大家看看他行不行能不能不過這是我最後非常卑微的請求那作為結語就是希望這個大院能夠理性審慎來進行這次大法官審查不要讓這個能守能投能打的Team Taiwan就止步在大院面前謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5124.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5132.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
好 謝謝宏偉聖教授的寶貴說明接下來我們請陳瑞仁教授請說明謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5136.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5155.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
主席、各位委員、各位在場先進我是退休的檢察官沈瑞仁我今天是想從一個辦案的基層的檢察官的角度來從這個憲判八來談大法官的人選的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5157.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5180.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
我講 憲判八他是引起很多的討論那他現在沒辦法就是說他跟大法官的人選已經被連結在一起所以我們就勇敢的面對這個問題我講憲判八他引發的一些問題第一個就是他有一些價值衝突 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5182.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5188.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
還有它實務上的一些操作讓我們實務界的會有一點疑惑就對了齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5189.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5211.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
那首先第一個就是說先判罷他所創造出來的那些特別程序是要所有的殺人案件都適用還是說後來法官有判死刑的才適用還是說檢察官有求處死刑的才適用這個現在在史物界有爭議了 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5212.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5232.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
那我個人是支持是檢察官有求處死刑的才進去這一種特別程序這樣子實務上應該操作會比較順暢一點另外就是關於價值的選擇方面事實上憲判吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5234.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5250.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
對於那個對被告有利的就是說被告本人的因素也就是說他比如說他從小成長的背景他有沒有被虐待這個其實是國際公約都有在注意的問題其實憲判吧也是漏掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5252.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5280.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
所以我們回過頭來看美國他們對於這個死刑的程序他們的程序我是覺得比較容易操作啦他們就是有法律先規定說哪些是判死刑的加重因素那這個由檢察官來舉證然後再來就是說哪些是減輕因素由辯護人來證明如果只有加重沒有減輕那就判死刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5281.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5284.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
但是如果有加重又有減輕那就做一個衡量 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5286.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5314.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
那衡量的結果,如果說死刑的條件其實都有了只是最後裁判認為不應該判死刑這個時候就有70%的州規定說那就一定要判終身監禁美國是有終身監禁的,他們是真的關在牢裡面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5317.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5339.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
那另外就是有一個很重要的問題就是說數之合併跟分離的問題意思就是說比如說一個殺人犯他的殺人罪跟他另外一個罪比如說那個罪是在公車上偷拍群內風光的這種罪能不能一起審對於被告會不會造成不利 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5341.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5363.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
或者是說一個大咖的跟一個小咖的人一起審判的話那一個小咖的會不會被大咖的影響就是人家因為討厭大咖就是對小咖就不利像類似這種所謂的正當法律審計事實上現判吧也是漏掉了再來就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5364.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5387.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
國民法官的決定他必須要被尊重到哪邊剛剛被害者家屬就有指出說為什麼一個職業法官就可以推翻六個國民法官那我們來看美國的制度美國在求死案件的老大是誰是陪審團 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5389.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5414.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
美國只有兩個州是最後決定生死的是交給職業法官其他沒有廢死的州都是由陪審團做最後決定而那兩個可以由法官做最後決定的前提是說陪審團已經同意要判死刑了如果陪審團不同意判死刑的話法官也不能判死刑所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5414.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5443.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
關於死刑案件事實上是主權在民的觀念是沒錯可是我們憲判八好像沒有去遵守這一點再來就是說關於那個求死案件的裁判者他應該有哪些資格這個在美國叫做陪審員的資格性就對了間接 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5445.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5462.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
反對死刑的或者是說殺人者一定要償命的這兩種極端的人都不能去處理求死案件就對了那這一點憲判八在講到正當程序的時候也漏掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5466.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5485.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
那再來是精神狀態,精神狀態引起很大的爭議事實上精神狀態從我們實務操作的來看,它有兩個點最重要第一個就是說舉證責任在誰一個被告可以講說我在殺人的時候有一個聲音叫我去殺人,他只要講這樣子就夠了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5488.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5504.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
事實上是不夠的啦在美國的規定就是說你被告還是要去證明有那個聲音的存在你證明出來以後只是他的證明程度不用到無任何合理的懷疑他證明程度是比較低一點就是明白可信的 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5505.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5531.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
的那種程度就可以但是他總是要復舉任責任然後第二個就是說誰來做最後決定我們現在實務上是說送給鑑定人然後只要一個醫生講說他在行為的時候精神有問題我們教教就接受實際上這是錯的在美國他明文規定最終的決定是由事實裁判者也就是陪審團他獨佔 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5534.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5545.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
這個決定權是要在這邊像這兩個問題 憲判官也沒有去論述最後一個問題就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5548.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5563.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
有些在宣判發之後會有一些殺人犯重返社會那重返社會這個問題引起我們社會除了安全性以外其實有一個更可怕的事情就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5564.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5586.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
那些人將來能不能上節目去談他的案件他能不能出書他會不會成為名嘴他可不可以到被害人的大門前面去賣牛肉麵然後講說我現在每賣一碗牛肉麵我就捐30塊給被害人然後來賺這一種等於是賺災難錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5588.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5610.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
可不可以這樣子這個問題一個負責的司法要去思考因為有一些人會被放出來這個就牽涉到所謂的保護管束有沒有終身的保護管束就對了我們現在的保護管束沒有終身的我們沒有終身監禁也沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5612.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5620.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
中生的保護管束的話這個社會當然會有所不滿所以這個必須要進行一些修法就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5623.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5641.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
我們就是從憲判八回過頭來講說大法官的人權我想大法官會最忍當心的第一個就是說他如果對於特定理念有宗教式的狂熱的話這個就有點不太合當了 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5643.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5643.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5666.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5677.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
為了就是一個解釋只是為了替一個個案解套而不做通盤考量的這一點我們也是要去避免 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5678.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5707.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
那至於說我們現在到底如何避免說未反對而反對我認為立法委員應該是在質詢方面去發揮一些作用那質詢要做得好第一個當然對他的先前的陳述先前的行為要做一些收集再來就是要建立那個質詢的題庫那質詢的題庫我在資料裡面有列一些參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5708.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5737.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
最後就是說我們必須要面對可能會有第二波的提名那其實要有高度的政治協商的智慧去進行這件事德國的那個大法官是國會要三分之二高門檻才能通過他基本的精神其實就在政治協商啦就是大家都能夠接受最後就是說我國的 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5738.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5738.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
謝謝陳瑞榮教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5767.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5768.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
接下來我們請第7位蘇彥圖教授請 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5773.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5801.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
主席、各位委員、在座各位先進大家好很榮幸有機會能夠參與今天的討論在正式發言之前可能也做一個聲明就是今天個人的發言完全只有代表個人不代表我所屬的單位也沒有跟這個推薦我參與今天會議的這個黨團有任何的溝通而且我相信我們在座所有的專家都是同樣的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5802.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5821.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
我們就是提供我們的專業意見提供給大院來參考我今天想要運用10分鐘簡短的時間來談兩個層次的問題第一個層次就是說我們在進一步的討論說什麼是事任的大法官我們對於大法官事任的標準到底是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5822.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5823.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
第2屆第2屆 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5852.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
5854.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
第1屆大法院院長、副院長及大法官同意權案公聽會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
5876.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
5903.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
不過這個整體確實是很重要的但是我們的法律的規定基本上是透過總統的提名然後立法院的同意我們共同來形成一個那個就完整多樣然後具有一定的代表性的這個憲法法院的組成但是我們在個別接下來我們會比較重視的是個別的大法官的人選我們也期待說他具有一定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
5904.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
5904.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
5933.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
5955.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
其實第一個最基本的條件就是英文說integrity就是操守他要有很高尚的人格沒有任何的道德上的爭議那第二個就是我們會說Competence他的能力他的專業那我們的因為我們的大法官的提名 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
5956.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
5956.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
公聽會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
5975.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
5975.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
公聽會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
5991.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
5992.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
司法哲學 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6012.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6037.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
司法哲學他其實除了我們都理解說法官也是人法官他有自己的政治立場意識形態這個一定程度都會影響他做的決定但是他也不是只依照他自己的政治立場跟意識形態在做決定每一個法官對於他自己的角色的認知他如何理解他的任務可能都會有不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6039.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6063.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
我們的憲法特別是我們當代的自由憲政民主其實是一個非常需要包容非常多元不同的觀念跟想法所以每一個大官他解釋他如何解釋憲法他如何去運他可能都會有不同的理解不同的理論那這個都是值得我們去溝通去了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6063.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6065.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
副院長及大法官同意權案 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6079.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6100.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
被提名人都要採取這個方法這個是可能要進一步說明所以我們在特別例如在司法哲學的討論上我們有很多的分析就會提供說我們其實不同的法官他其實有不同的憲法人格我們叫constitutional persona |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6101.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6124.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
這個部分它的特質都可以值得我們進一步的透過人事同意權的審查能夠進一步的來讓我們的社會理解知道說我們所選任出來的大法官是什麼樣的大法官其實第4個還有最重要的我覺得其實是 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6125.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6126.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
Judicial TEMPERAMENT |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6136.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6159.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
那這個temperament其實很重要就是說他需要能夠展現他的一定的獨立性他可以獨立思考他可能過去都會有政治活動的參與但是他並不會因此而有產生對特定政黨的偏好他能夠展現他的公正性然後他有一定的開放open mindedness |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6159.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6161.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
公聽會．第11屆第2會期第2次全院委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6184.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6213.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
被好的道理說服這也是重要的一個特質所以確實就會特別是在政治激化或者是分立政府時期我們就會期待說我們的大法官確實不會是像陳委員檢察官提到說他可能是很極端的或他立場很鮮明但是他比較願意是他是一個moderate他是一個比較溫和的他願意去聽不同的意見只要有這樣子的特質的大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6213.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6235.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
都應該是值得我們肯定應該要也要被選任的所以重點就在於說我剛才的分析事實要說明就是說大法官他作為一個法官他真的就是法官他不是穿著法袍的政客他不是依照他的個人的偏政策的偏好 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6236.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6236.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6257.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6272.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
他們真的都是超越黨派在進行他們的職務所以黨派的思考應該是在這個大法官選任裡面是最不重要甚至是不應該要出現的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6272.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6299.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
那在最有限的時間裡面我想要講最後一點就是說有關於我們的人事同意權的公聽會以及最後的投票應該要如何進行我只是想要提醒就是說在這個過程其實它某一個程度上來說是可以讓我們的社會更進一步的理解我們未來的大法官他大概會是什麼樣的一個法官所以它有一個重要的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6300.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6327.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
公民教育的一個功能但是我們在這個過程中也會擔心說對於大法官一些錯誤的期待或不當的期待都會影響了我們社會對於司法公正性的信任那這是我們會希望能夠避免的所以我舉一個例子就是1993年的時候Ruth Bader Ginsburg我們很有名的一位金斯伯格大法官他美國的一個非常 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6328.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6329.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
公聽會：第11屆第2會期第2次全院委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6349.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6366.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
大法官當時被提名人他就說這件事情跟我的接下來要做的工作一點關係都沒有我們不希望誤導我們的公民認為說大法官都是只是依照個人的價值偏好在做決斷的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6366.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6367.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
非常感謝蘇彥圖教授的寶貴意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6388.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6388.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
郭榮鏗議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6420.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6448.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
院長還有我們所有的學者專家我們立法院的同仁還有各位媒體大家好我非常喜歡東野歸吾的小說人性的善人性的惡在他的筆下寫的淋漓盡致我尤其印象深刻是他寫了一本小說叫做惡意故事的情節非常的驚悚 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6450.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6475.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
東野歸吾在惡意這本小說裡面描寫惡人的惡意那種讓人不寒而慄的恐怖我到現在也是印象猶新我相信那種讓人不寒而慄的惡意的恐怖對面我們的張教授你一定也能夠感同身受因為這些就現實的發生在很多受害者身上 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6476.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6502.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
讓受害者家屬感受到這些惡人們讓人不寒而慄的惡意這世界上有好人但也有壞人有一種壞人他殺人可能是因為嫉妒可能是因為仇恨可能是因為貪婪但也可能根本沒有理由完全沒有理由就是出於單純的惡意 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6504.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6523.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
他想殺人他不把別人的命當命甚至他覺得殺人只是一種樂趣而已當我們的司法宮殿的最後那個王座成為這種惡意的保護者的時候我要問大家我們所有善良守法的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6525.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6552.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
我們兢兢業業在崗位上我們照顧我們家人承擔我們的責任保護我們愛人的普通的老百姓我們要靠誰來保護很遺憾我們的大法官就是把自己當作那司法王座上的王他用自己的價值強壓被惡人剝奪生命的被害人 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6554.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6582.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
他用自己的價值強壓被害者家屬流不盡的淚水他用自己的價值強壓全台灣超過八成反對廢除死刑的民意就在今年的9月20號大法官做出了實質廢死的判決我剛剛聽到林滕耀教授說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6583.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6609.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
其實大法官就成了民進黨廢死的巧門我要跟各位說主張廢死不能說完全沒有道理但是民進黨既然你的黨綱支持廢除死刑你就勇敢的在立法院提案透過立法來宣示你今天廢死的意志結果你不以此為由不以此為盡 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6611.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6639.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
你最後找了黨議的大法官繞過民意 繞過立法然後用少數大法官的意志來去做出了實質廢死的判決而這個實質廢死的判決一出來 真的一出來我印象中大概一個禮拜吧非常快啊影響就出現了第一個保護 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6640.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6668.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
的就是虐殺張教授妻子的這個流行凶犯我們的大法官的保護傘第一個保護的就是虐殺女教師的流行凶犯明天是12月3號是讓我們覺得非常悲痛的日子明天12月3號反對廢除死刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6670.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6698.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
今天不捨女教師就這樣被殺害的民眾我們在明天就要走上街頭明天下午走上街頭十年前這一位一生奉獻教育受到學生肯定有關心愛護她的家人也有她愛護關心的家人的這位女老師她不過就是到市場去買菜 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6700.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6722.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
就遭遇飛來橫禍流性兇犯是隨機挑上這個奉公守法的女老師用鐵鎚重擊她很多殘忍的細節我真的我也說不出口我說不出口非常殘忍虐殺了女老師立審法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6726.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6731.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
都認為這個兇手泯滅人性毫無教化可能五度判死 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6734.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6758.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
結果大法官實質廢死宣判出來之後我們的最高法院是非常誠實的他直接對外說明為什麼今天五度判死可以改判免死為什麼最高法院直接告訴我們他是秉照大法官最新的憲法判決意思保護這位加害人 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6760.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6780.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
民進黨還跟我講沒有實質廢死大法官憲判沒有實質廢死最高法院直接跟我講這五度判死的兇犯最高法院就是用大法官憲法判決的意思直接宣布他免死確判你還跟我講沒有實質廢死大法官成為惡徒惡人的救星啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6788.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6813.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
而我們一輩子坐於英才的女老師拿到獅奪獎的女老師她的冤屈從此埋於地下再也不能昭雪她的家屬就像張老師說的要被判一輩子無期徒刑被判一輩子無期徒刑是受害者的家屬她一輩子 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6814.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6840.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
都只能在暗夜裡流淚因為期盼不到正義你以為只有流性兇犯嗎沒多久,不久前一位縱火燒死七個人的真性兇犯一樣也說因為大法官做了實質廢死判決所以他也免死了,卻判了 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6842.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6871.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
他在法庭上怎麼說的大家知道嗎他說我燒死七個人我比鄭捷厲害我燒死七個人我比鄭捷厲害但按照大法官的憲法判決意志這麼厲害的人是被大法官保護的人我常在講今天主張廢除死刑的人都會講說那今天冤獄怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6872.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6889.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
我跟各位講現在刑事偵查的技術的進步幾乎已經讓冤獄是不可能發生我就直接問這些主張冤獄的人冤獄當然我們也反對主張冤獄的我要問你鄭捷是冤獄嗎所有攝影機都拍到他是冤獄嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
6891.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
6910.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
今天這位真性兇犯說我殺了7個人比鄭潔厲害他是冤獄嗎今天虐殺女老師的流性兇犯他是冤獄嗎不要再拿冤獄當藉口過去刑事偵查的手段有非常多不吉之處現在時代不一樣各位不要忘啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
6914.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
6941.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
你以為只有到流性兇犯跟真性兇犯啊我們有37位死刑定驗的死刑犯我跟吳宗憲委員、翁小林委員我們在司法法院質詢多少次我告訴各位從來沒有一個官員敢告訴我說他們不會被放出來沒有一個官員敢保證大法官實質廢死判決之後第一個面對就是非常少數 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
6943.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
6949.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
然後可能就撤銷判決然後人可能就放出來了過去我們的大法官的實質廢質判決變成這些殺人犯的幫兇而未來的殺人犯也可以非常開心的告訴大家我殺人不用擔心啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
6972.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
6999.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
因為大法官就是我最強的後盾阿今天我們在這邊為什麼要進行人事同意的公聽會因為賴清德總統提名的7位大法官有6位主張廢除死刑我想請我們民進黨的朋友江心平請賴清德江心比心你教我們立法院怎麼通過這6位主張廢除死刑的大法官提名阿我怎麼通過羅志祥怎麼投得下這張票阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7001.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7025.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
我投下這張票我對得起那些被害者跟被害者的家屬嗎我對得起台灣八成的民意嗎所以今天我們在這邊我要告訴大家大法官做實質廢死的判決對我們受害者對司法正義的踐踏我不容許 我不會背書這六位大法官繼續下去 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7027.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7051.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
好 謝謝羅志強委員發言接下來跟各位介紹一下我們現到場的有葛如君委員廖偉祥委員也到了現場那接下來我們請登記第二位鍾嘉斌委員請發言麻煩把電腦鍾嘉斌委員的簡報資料報告一下在這個安裝電腦的介紹有張祺凱委員也到了現場 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7061.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7061.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7090.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7112.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
在場的各界學者、專家、代表我們委員先進媒體記者女士先升我想今天我們在這裡我要對於公聽會的內容有一個重點就是人事同意權投票記名與否如何影響大法官職權行使這個題目可能很弔詭因為從剛剛大家討論我們聽到我們在討論的是人事同意權要 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7120.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7149.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
如何進行審查我剛聆聽了幾位學者、專家代表還有前面幾位委員的發言似乎我們希望從這些被提名人過去的主張他過去的判決的立場或是他在某些價值上、理念上來作為我們要對他行使同意權的一個判準是這樣嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7150.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7162.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
我很佩服剛剛蘇彥途教授他所說的今天我們對於任何被提名人的審查不意味著他將來在釋憲案會採取什麼樣的釋憲的立場或結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7169.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7195.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
就像我們不能因為我們有個案子細數法院我們要來挑法官我要看看來審理我案件的法官他是否在過去類似的案例上他是主張給予被告死刑還是給他一個更輕緩的判決人民在法院上尋求正義我們不能挑法官我們只能申請迴避有具體的案例認為該名法官不適合審理本案 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7197.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7214.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
迴避的原則在目前憲法訴訟本來就有啊所以因此我們去考驗我們去細細的斟酌去透視這位被提名人他過去因此要預測他未來在憲法事件上他要做什麼樣的決定這是不可能也沒有意義的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7215.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7242.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
所以不可能對於他過去是否支持廢死來判斷他未來在未來重大的國家憲政議題上他會採取什麼立場這是徒勞無功也不應該的事情所以我是覺得我們對於審查的目的要先想清楚如果真的能夠透過這種方式來篩選那抱歉那只有在我們所熟悉看到的美國的陪審團制度你可以兩兆可以對於陪審團的成員 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7244.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7261.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
他的族群、他的膚色、他的職業,他是否已經有新政了我們去要求更換陪審團團員,抱歉,我們今天審查的是大法官被提名人不是細數案件的陪審團的成員,這是首先要說明的 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7261.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7285.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
所以我們來看一看這第一章,這是民間的監督大法官人權聯盟,他提到要看他的品格、人格特質、學識專業能力、憲政人權理念,是否要改革,交給全院委員會審查大家知道嗎?我參與過好幾次審查,審查結果審查報告提到院會跟大會報告的時候,有提到每個委員的內容嗎?有提到多數意見的內容嗎?有提到公聽會的意見嗎?沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7286.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7310.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
只有描述什麼時候開了公聽會什麼時候進行了諮詢、審查什麼時候開始提全院來做投票表決沒有任何對於該人選是否適任的任何的評論意見沒有好所以呢儘管我們有公聽會接下來院會的進行表決才是關鍵我們來看一下目前立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7311.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7328.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
行使憲法職權的各種表決規定在既有的就有的職權行使法當中它分別為對事有復議權復議案還有緊急命令的追認這是採對近民表決另外在對人的部分它有人事同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7329.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7353.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
全有總統的彈劾案那麼這個還有總統的罷免案還有不信任案當中我們看到了對人跟對事結果就有的立法院職權行使法副議案是近平表決總統罷免案對葛魁的不信任案這是近平表決但是很奇怪的對事情的緊急命令卻是 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7355.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7380.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
吳敬明表決人事同意案跟總統談判案這對人的是吳敬明表決所以我們真的看不出來在舊有的立法院職權行使法到底記不記名跟對人或對事有沒有一個清楚的界限然而在本次的國會擴權案當中通通改成敬明表決當然敬明表決這個條款並沒有在大法官釋憲的範圍內所以自然沒有受理 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7380.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7402.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
所以我們不了解也不去爭論到底通通改為記名表決對我們人事同意權的審查會不會有影響但是我們來看一下同意權的修法之後呢我們現在有兩個變革第一個將公聽會入法本來每次同意權行使都有公聽會但是這次立法院執行法入法了另外也把他的人事同意權改為記名投票 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7403.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7421.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
記名投票這是一個合乎一般的原則嗎在4至499號的申請函當中提到了表決應採公開這方式僅於涉及選舉事項為免人情干擾使例外採秘密投票當年在申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7422.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7432.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
後來宣告國會擴權自肥延任案為無效的時候當時的事件申請文有包括我們在現場的主席韓國瑜院長楊瓊英委員當時102人提出對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7438.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7467.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
對於修憲延任案申請釋憲就申請人自己提到選舉啊避免人情干擾要採取秘密投票那請問人事同意權審查算不算他這裡面所謂的應該要秘密投票但是各國的國籍不同有的採吳敬明投票像法國的眾議院像台灣的舊制但是有的是採敬明投票就是現在的新制甚至更有進一步的美國他是採點名投票啊點名投票什麼意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7468.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7491.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
400多位國會議員一個一個叫起來輪到你說贊成還是反對這個效果比我們的記名投票更為有壓力啊因為是一票一票投啊如果投票你的時候剛好就在可否過半的那個過程你到底要同意還是反對這跟投完票再來開票知道說你到底是制裁還是反對不太一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7492.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7511.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
但是呢就算過去我們用吳敬明投票還是有各黨都會技術性的亮票叫做監票亮給誰看亮給監票員看亮給監票員是為了什麼目的為了政黨的黨的紀律政黨要求他所屬的國會議員應該要一致性的在人事同意權上行使一致立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7513.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7536.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
這到底應不應該這可以討論但是我們從吳敬明投票到晉民投票我們看到吳敬明投票他沒有人情壓力但是他也不用對社會公開大眾負責反而他可以透過技術性的量票給監票人看可以貫徹政黨機率但是又不受到公共監督所以某個程度來講晉民投票似乎是比較能夠符應符合國會論證應跟社會大眾負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7539.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7563.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
好,但是我們來看一下一旦記名投票之後會有什麼情況呢?我們看到了這是在當年我們看到的一個投票結果我們看到記名投票立委可以自由表態嗎?當年所謂的最爛的監委名單國民黨多數國民黨執政的時候國民黨提名自己刷掉自己的人因為是無記名投票如果才記名投票這種情況不管誰執政 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7565.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7576.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
會不會發生 有沒有可能發生 我們來思考一下像這一張2015年馬英九總統提名的黃鴻霞等四位大法官結果蔡明成沒有通過黃鴻霞通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7578.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7606.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
就在不久之前他參與了律師的上街頭遊行反對國會擴權案反對限訴法的一個惡修他說你不能叫我玉友友啊嚴格來講我叫馬友友啊因為我是馬英九提名的照社會上的說法誰哪個總統提名的他就是哪個人的人馬是這樣子嗎馬英九總統提名的被提名人也有被刷掉的啊也有通過的啊也有通過之後他在今年站出來反對國民黨主導的限法訴訟法的惡修啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7608.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7625.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
我們來看一下,如果一旦才晉名投票的時候,我們會看到過去的吳晉名不會知道個別黨派或黨員、議員的投票結果結果改成晉名投票之後,每個通過的大法官都知道他得到的同意票是分布在哪些政黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7626.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7654.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
那未來這裡面就會出現三個影響第一個被提名人通過之後他知道我今天能當上大法官是誰投票給我同意的好啦 被提名人知道了接著審查的人投票的人也知道你會通過投票除了我還有誰同意給你更重要的是社會知道了 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7655.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7684.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
如果說大法官你的通過審查是我的同意那未來以我為名提出的立法委員提出的釋憲案請問這個被行使同意權的大法官他有沒有壓力啊是不是我們當年韓院長所受的人情壓力啊更重要的是社會怎麼看社會就根據這個同意權行使通過之後所有通過的大法官都有一個各黨派的委員的支持表 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7685.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7707.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
未來的提名人更容易被社會標籤化這是今天我們多位的垂水專家一再提起的我們如何避免讓我們的大法官被社會以黨派來標籤化這是我們在觀察我們的同意權審查從吳敬明投票到敬明投票要大家密切去注意的攸關未來我們大法官的視線以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7709.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7719.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
謝謝鍾嘉賓委員發言接下來我們請蔡易瑜委員請在發言之前再介紹一位台灣民眾黨委員麥玉珍委員到現場蔡易瑜委員請好 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7723.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7747.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
謝謝主席、各位學者專家還有我們在場的各位委員以及各位媒體先進今天在舉行大法官人事同意權我們全院委員會所召開的一個公聽會也感謝各位學者專家可以今天來出席我們今天的公聽會我想今天我們在與審查大法官的時候剛剛 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7748.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7773.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
每位學者都有提出各自的一些看法那我認為在審查大法官的時候除了著重大法官過去他所謂的一個學經歷之外那大法官過去的一個背景那以及我們每一個大法官他們在於被提名之後他們是否可以尋求到各政黨的支持那在 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7774.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7791.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
投票權行使的時候獲得多數過半的一個投票讓這個被提名可以成功這個我想是整個在這個立法院被提名權跟這個同意權行使上的一個要件那也就是因為這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7792.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7812.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
那我要強調的第一個就是如同剛剛仲夏兵委員說的我們的同意權的行使自從不記名改成了記名之後大法官被提名人在這段時間他所尋求支持的立委他未來是會展現在這個投票的一個結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7813.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7840.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
那既然會展現在投票的一個結果我們第一個擔心的就是說一旦政黨他行使以自信投票的要求的時候是否每一位立委就沒有辦法或者喪失了個別大法官在尋求個別立委支持的時候他們的機會就會相對的減少也就是說本來大法官可以在不記名的時候尋求個別立委因為在某些 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7841.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7842.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7867.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7891.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
立委會呈現高度的政黨的一個傾向那這個政黨的傾向一旦呈現出來後會不會造成這一位大法官在未來在行使憲法訴訟他所做出任何一個憲法訴訟裡面的理由書不管是贊成或者是反對的理由書裡面會不會讓外界先對他 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7892.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7893.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
副院長：第11屆第2會期第2會期 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7919.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
7940.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
當然不同的政黨之間大家在彼此競爭的過程中都會去主張說這大法官是誰提名的是過去馬英九前總統提名的是蔡英文提名的是現任的賴清德總統提名的當然因為提名人就會讓這些被提名的大法官給他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
7942.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
7957.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
賦予了好像因為提名人他們身上就帶有政黨那也就是會變成說現在在行使同意權本質上的一個困難那以現在國會的一個多數並不是提名人賴清德總統的民進黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
7961.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
7976.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
是屬於國會多數那這樣的一個被提名人有辦法尋求在國會是少數的另外的政黨的支持這個難度本身是高所以我們還是期待說在於這一次的 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
7977.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
7994.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
大法官提名的時候每一位被提名人還是可以努力的去尋求各位的支持不管是每一個政黨、每一個立委最後來通過同意權我想是一個很必要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
7995.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
7995.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
公聽會議公聽會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8018.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8045.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
同意權的司法院的未來的院長是讓他們希望他去注重幾個議題第一個議題就是法官長期過勞的議題那以臺北地方法院為例2013年的總案件量是27000件到了2023年已經增加到了35000件而且這個增加的案件當然是以詐騙的案件最多從10年前 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8047.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8075.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
一年大概800件到2023年暴增到了3000件所以以這樣來說司法院的整個的一個平均的工作的時數是增加了很多平均每日的工作時數11.8小時每週的工作時數是58.9小時所以在這樣的一個情況之下我們希望未來的司法院院長如果通過了提名的話事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8075.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8075.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8102.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8129.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
事實審是放在第一審那終審的法院是放在了法律審之後那所以我們第一審是一個叫做堅強的事實審第二審是嚴格的續審制第三審則是嚴格的一個法律審這樣的一個金字塔的訴訟程序的程序我們應該要關注的第一個基層法院的資源跟人力是不足的第二個上訴救濟跟司法權的一個保障第三個就是司法的信任問題那這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8131.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8131.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8153.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8174.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
國民黨立委提案將憲法訴訟法憲由總額改成法定總額15人並要求大法官憲由總額必須要三分之二的出席以及三分之二的同意才能作出暫時處分或評議這部分會讓如果這一次的大法官沒有辦法通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8176.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8192.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
提名沒有辦法再通過這個人事同意權的話會造成現行的大法官的總額就是只有8人但是在於憲法訴訟法如果修過的這個訴訟法第4條把它改成法定總額15人那 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8194.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8194.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8222.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8225.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
空窗起無法行使憲法訴訟的情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8227.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8255.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
那我們可以借鏡其他國家相關的憲法法庭我們可以去看如果以韓國為例南韓在今年的下半年也發生了如果這個憲法訴訟法通過的一個情況就在今年的下半年在2024年的10月17號韓國的憲法法院院長跟兩位法官大法官卸任但國會對於任命憲法法院法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8257.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8261.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
的程序仍然是停滯的所以依照韓國憲法法庭第23條第一項的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8264.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8286.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
本來案件應該由7名以上的法官出席審理但是3位法官卸任之後韓國憲法法院因為無法達到7人的門檻而無法審判因此憲法法院在10月14日一致的決定暫停憲法審判的人數7人的條款所以也是因為這樣暫時解決了這個暫時適用這個條款 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8292.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8318.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
也暫時的解決憲法審判功能癱瘓的最壞情況那這件事是發生在南韓今年的10月17號那我現在要預知的就是說如果這個憲法訴訟法也真如同現在國會多數黨他們的堅持之下讓憲法法庭癱瘓讓憲法法庭無法行使的時候但是人民對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8319.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8339.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
大法官來行使憲法上的救濟的權利不能被癱瘓我們也呼籲憲法法庭應該要去看韓國的案例然後讓整個憲法訴訟仍然是可以繼續的行使好 謝謝謝謝參議員的發言接下來請登記第4位吳宗憲委員請發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8342.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8367.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
謝謝主席我想這次我們對於大法官的提名部分我們會做的是一個實質上的審查說絕對不會像外界所說的做包裹式的或仇恨式的同意或不同意那至少我們幾位委員我們討論的結果都是這樣而且也沒有任何黨團或任何人給我們下指導旗說我們必須要達到什麼樣的結果所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8367.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8368.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8386.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8387.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8413.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8416.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
馬英九總統時代提名大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8431.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8453.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
他講的這句話沒有錯啊但是這個又更看得出來就是在以前總統馬總統時代他對大法官的選擇他是希望以一個平衡多樣的角度去挑選對國家真正有利的人選來擔任大法官而不是像現在大法官的人選就過度高度的重視他的政治 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8453.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8454.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
副院長：第11屆第2會期第2會期 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8478.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8496.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
就認為說這個大法官跟現在我們怎麼可以提出質疑呢所以我在這邊必須講一個以前跟現在對於提名的想法是不一樣的現在的問題出在過度的高度去重視他的政治想法是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8497.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8514.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
那我剛有提到大法官的提名真的必須要避免過度的政治色彩因為憲法判決他對於國家的影響力是遠遠大於一般法院法官的判決像這次我們所謂的國會改革法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8515.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8540.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
其實大法官的判決已經完全限縮了國會的調查權但是我們也知道現在的監察院根本它的效力就不彰甚至現在的執政黨早就說以前都主張要廢除監察院現在的執政黨以前也主張要強化國會的調查權、聽證權等等的權限但是在執政之後就全部都忘記了甚至希望提名自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8541.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8565.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
有好的大法官來幫他做最後的把關最後去阻擋正常的改革所以這個是我們認為大法官不應該過度跟政治有關係其實以往的大法官都受我們念法律的人非常非常的尊敬因為他們做出來的許多判決都是超然去對於國家對於這個憲政上面的爭議去做最好的判決但是現在我們看不到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8567.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8595.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
真正一個對國家有益的判決出來甚至大法官還認為說到國會說謊的官員根本就不需要去負責那這個也是不對的這個也是人民所沒有辦法接受的好 那我們再提到之前大法官他對於死刑判決的這一次限判制這個限判制他不但侵害了立法院的立法權他也侵害了普通法院法官的 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8597.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8597.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8617.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8643.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
或者是一個大法官的提名人連自己要做什麼能做什麼不能做什麼都搞不清楚的時候這個人適合當大法官嗎?我想全國念法律的人都懂我在講什麼大法官的角色是創設法律嗎?絕對不是大法官的角色是侵害法官獨立審判權嗎?絕對不是所以當他連自己的權限都搞不清楚的時候我們在人事審查就要去盯緊這一塊那 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8646.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8661.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
憲判制出來非常的明顯嘛他就是在從事這樣的角色變成是特定政黨的護航者至於說是哪一個政黨我就不多說了所以我還是希望啦大法官行使解釋憲法的權利的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8663.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8691.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
憲法的問題的時候不應該受到政治力的影響就像他們任職時候他們一定有一個宣誓嘛他秉持超然獨立的精神所以我在審查人選的時候我會重視這一塊這也是我審查的時候非常重要的一個區塊那我覺得強化國會的權力它本來就是一個還權於民的概念怎麼會變成是像某些特定人講什麼毀憲亂政這種名詞都出來我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8692.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8718.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
強化國會還權於民是因為立法院已經是現在國內碩國僅存在中央唯一的民意機關了早期早期在中華民國創立在五權憲法的時代其實監察院跟立法院都是民意機關但是我們在歷次修憲之後只剩下立法院是唯一的民意機關你卻不賦予這個民意機關有 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8720.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8720.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8746.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8759.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
國會改革法案發生了一些爭議行政院、立法院、監察院發生了爭議其實憲法法庭也應該要求總統要先出來行使院紀的調解權但是卻 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8761.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8786.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
大法官就完全無視於這一塊那這個也結果也是導致行政權就是無限的擴張我們不能容許大法官讓或者是現在的執政黨把我們五權 憲法的五權搞到只剩下一權 行政權所以當司法權也要向行政權靠攏的時候當監察權當考試權都向行政權靠攏的時候那我們能夠接受這樣的見解嗎而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8790.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8807.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
立法院已經是中央碩果傾存的民意機關了我們不能讓人民只能對於政府有所不滿對行政權有所不滿他們只能期待下一次的選舉被動的再去爭取自己的權利而是我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8809.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8829.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
當選者執政的這4年就要有有效的機關能夠去監督行政權但是現在的制度走到最後變成人民不管選出了誰他唯一能做的就只能期待4年後的下一次選舉更換政黨否則所有的代議事制度幾乎都被破壞光了所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8833.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
8850.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
剛剛其實羅志強委員有提到民意的部分到底大法官要不要遵守民意其實我的想法跟大家跟國民黨很多人的想法其實不一定是一樣的當然我覺得大法官他不是100% |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
8851.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
8852.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
8870.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
8895.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
但是我們必須去思考的是如果今天大法官他在下判決的時候他是處於一個超然獨立的角色去做這個憲法判決的時候當然我們不會隨著大多數民意去走他也有他的反抗大法官有他的反抗的判決出來否則我們就所有東西都做民調了就不需要設置大法官了所以我必須講民意 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
8896.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
8921.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
你要去對抗他,但是前提請讓自己在獨立的位置獨立、超然這時候你才能夠去主張說我們的判決跟民意是不盡相同的我希望司法還是要行使自我的節制不能夠毫無極限的侵害立法權以及司法權我說司法權是法官獨立審判的權限 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
8923.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
8947.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
這次憲判制這個大法官的組成扣除掉迴避的三位只剩下三位有刑事判決的經驗所以我這次提出很多大法官其實在憲判制帶給社會的問題那我也很感謝剛剛陳瑞仁大學長他有提到的其實這些當我一直主張這些原本死刑的要執行者他們可能會回到社會但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
8948.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
8973.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
所有的政客以及側翼都告訴國人說我在欺騙社會但是剛陳德遠大法官說這些人可能回不到社會然後司法院的刑事聆聽長、副秘書長以及法務部的常事也都說會回到社會我們要想辦法解決這個問題結果只有政客告訴我們這些人不會回到社會其實這就是我在立法院我一直堅守的一個立場我要說出實話我不能把真相隱蔽然後不告訴國人 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
8974.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
8974.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
前大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
8993.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9023.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
那個詹昭元曾經說過就是對於民意到底要不要重視曾經說過他說如果我們不能想像有15個貴族可以決定我們國家所有的事情那為什麼我們可以接受15個大法官不受民意定期監督改選呢然後卻可以否定人民的自我決定連前大法官他都認為其實民意不是對大法官是完全不用踩大法官就是完全都不理民意就可以其實不是這樣子很多時候我們還是必須去多加思考好 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9024.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9030.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
時間的關係,我想我剛剛的論述就是我對於大法官實施審查上面我的想法,謝謝各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9878.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9880.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
再次感謝各位學者專家接下來我們請翁曉琳委員請發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9884.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9908.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
是,而院長,還有在座各位學者委員,各位媒體朋友,各位先生女士,大家好。這次進行大法官人事案的審查,本席以及在野黨的委員們一定會秉持著嚴格把關、寧缺勿濫的原則去審查這次的大法官人事案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9909.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9909.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
公聽會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9925.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9926.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
委員會．第11屆第2會期第2會期 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9943.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9968.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
正因為大法官的釋憲判決是如此的重要所以更要強化憲法法庭的嚴謹度和專業度並且要慎選大法官要選出有良好的人品操守、法律專業能力並且要能夠以民為本可以抵抗政治壓力超越黨派之外並且忠於憲法精神的大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9969.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9992.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
由於我國大法官的提名方式是由總統一人提名全數的大法官而不是像西方的國家那麼有些是明定部分的憲法法庭的法官是由國會和法院的體系推薦產生因此當總統提名大法官人選的時候如果只看重的是與自己政治立場相近的親近人士而不是廣納 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9993.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10004.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
多元不同政治立場和法律觀點的人選的時候就有可能會提名了一群政治色彩鮮明、法律見解偏頗的大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10006.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10033.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
大法官的獨立性是極為重要的但是要如何評價大法官們是否獨立、不向當權者靠攏最簡單的方式就是聽其言、觀其行、讀其解釋文特別是針對具有高度政治意義的事先案大法官是否勇於站在與當權者對立的那一面而不是始終都是與當權者同一陣線這個是一個非常重要的觀察指標 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10035.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10051.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
我們看看過去蔡英文總統提名的那群大法官們他們在釋憲案上面總是力挺執政的政策、捍衛總統的意志、違反廣大的民意例如針對軍公教退休人員的年金改革的釋憲案 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10053.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10077.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
來諸標示的釋憲案、農田水利會改制的釋憲案以及近期實質廢死的釋憲案和國會改革釋憲案等等這些都讓人不禁懷疑這群大法官究竟是捍衛人民的權益還是當權者的利益又或是標新利益難怪這群大法官會被冠為是這個保皇派的大法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10078.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10099.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
當初蔡英文提名的這15位大法官好不容易現在已經有7位卸任了現在還留有8位的大法官未來勢必仍將繼續捍衛民進黨的執政利益因此接下來的這7位大法官的人選非常重要必須要是能夠平衡現在憲法法庭一面倒的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10101.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10126.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
必須要能夠引進多元不同的法律觀點的大法官才能夠客觀正確的去解釋憲法那適用憲法今天我們審查賴清德總統提名的司法院院長、副院長和大法官的被提名人的這份名單不難看出賴總統的提名是有多麼的用人為親滿滿綠油油的親旅人士 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10130.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10145.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
司法院院長、被提名人張文珍是民進黨申請國會改革法案指定的鑑定人司法院副院長、被提名人姚立民則是遊走於政治領域,更是賴清德當競選總統時的主任委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10150.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10159.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
廖福特教授則是民進黨中央黨部的仲裁委員也是中天換照聽證會上面的鑑定人主張中天不讓他換照生律的立場非常鮮明劉靜怡教授曾經擔任黨產條例事件案的鑑定人她主張沒有違反憲法而且還參與卡管案的連署 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10173.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10183.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
更是常常在社群媒體上面發表言論說是什麼看不起台灣人台灣人的金魚頭腦一片難教等等的這些言論 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10185.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10205.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
鄭大的何賴傑教授也曾經在太陽花學運的時候批評當時的行政院院長江一樺說歷史會留下你的罵名他同時也是廢死學者政治立場偏綠陳韻才教授也是挺廢死的學者正是在聯署反對國會改革法案的學者的名單當中他也簽下了他的名字 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10209.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10219.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
王碧芳法官則是許中麗院長長期以來的左右手,雖然主導憲法訴訟法的修法,但在這次憲法訴訟的爭議上,我們也沒有看到她有提出任何立場見解。 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10225.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10244.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
台灣法學界和食物界優秀人才何其多,但是賴清德卻提名了一群具有高度爭議性而且政治立場鮮明的人來擔任大法官。如果這波人事案全數通過,可以預見,岌岌可危的大法官公信力將會被全盤摧毀。 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10249.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10269.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
我們仔細看這次他所提名的這七位大法官其實只有一位具有法院事務經驗那另一位則是政治經驗豐富其餘的五位呢都是學者但是如果剩下的這七位以及接下來就是現在提名的這七位以及現在留任的八位大法官來看他們的這個憲法 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10272.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10274.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
司法院院長、副院長及大法官同意權案公聽會：第11屆第2會期第2會期 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
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因為張文正教授他沒有行政領導實務運作的經驗對於司法改革、司法人員過勞等等這些問題到底有沒有能力去解決會不會淪為空有理想而不能實踐最後是一事無成留下一堆爛攤子給司法院跟立法院 |
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我們知道這幾年來大法官常常自以為是人權的進步者很喜歡將自己的道德信念強加於人民的身上透過視線來造線來造法那麼最後 |
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很有可能會讓台灣從所謂的民主法治國被顛覆成為大法官治國那麼這樣這一群的大法官呢他們過去常常變更見解或是對爭議性的議題做出與大多數民意相左的判決那麼這樣這樣子的一個態度這樣的做法基本上是違反了我們講的大法官呢不應該要 |
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《行使司法院院長及大法官同意權案》公聽會議 |
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但是一旦當憲法法庭大法官成為超級立法者的時候還有誰能夠制衡? |
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最後呢我還要再強調的是大法官的選拔不是單選一個人而是我們選擇的是對這個職務名器的重視選擇的是我們對一個全民認同的憲法價值因此大法官的人事案絕不能夠草率通過必須嚴格把關、寧缺勿濫否則將造成憲法災難以上謝謝 |
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好,謝謝翁曉琳委員發言接下來請登記第7號吳村城委員請謝謝院長我知道院長非常重視我們的在這個公聽會當中的出席那我之所以這個這麼晚到是因為在8樓在審我所主題的壯士待遇促進法那因為必須要逐條討論,我要逐條回答所以以至於 |
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今天我是代表臺灣民眾黨為一個議席來表達我們對於大法官行使同意權的看法我們的主題是我們需要具備專業素養與良知不受政治影響的大法官 |
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司法院的政府院長及大法官們堅負著國家司法的最後法律防線承擔著處理重要法證、人權法律的解釋與憲政機關爭議解決的重大責任所以各國對大法官皆賦予崇高的地位不應受到政治力的干擾或讓不具專業素養或德行者來擔任這個職位 |
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以民主成熟還有制度的完善的美國為例大法官的人選對未來美國社會的道德價值觀的導向是舉足輕重因此被世界許多國家肯定民主化成就的台灣大法官的提名若只是政治的考量與短視經歷將對台灣的民主法治面臨的嚴重危機 |
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這次大法官的提名名單一出多數人選的獨立性及公正性就被質疑台灣民眾黨在9月23號的時候發函請司法院正副院長及大法官被提名人來填答問卷調查表7位大法官被提名人 |
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後來卻發表聯合聲明指出暫時無法答覆資格及適任性的問題 |
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11月26日本黨團再次依法提出的問卷調查表就公共服務及參與法律工作之力司法及法律改革活動的參與政黨及政黨活動等基本資料及大法官領選制度修憲門檻與民主的實踐還有113年憲判至第9號國會改革案 |
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判決等問題要請所有被提人認真看待並據實來填寫,正是符合獅子審查精神來審慎的行使人士的同意權,讓通過行使大法官能夠超出黨派不受任何的干涉,對國家發展有遠見,能重建人民對司法的信心與對民主機制的信任。 |
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所以我們再次提出也呼籲每位被提名人在12月10日進行實質質詢之前能夠回覆 |
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然後請各位自行的判斷這樣的問卷該不該回覆不要看上面的臉色不要等像小學生在等老師的指示如果是這樣的大法官這樣被提名的人怎麼樣來承擔這種獨立大法官連填一個問卷自己都不敢 |
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大法官是民主國家憲政的守護者,具有重要民主的任務,應該要超然獨立。 |
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甚至憲法法庭可以審理總統、副總統的彈劾案以及政黨違憲解散的案件因此若大法官失去獨立性及公正性、專業素養與歷練不足還可能淪為黨同華裔的工具 |
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今年10月25日憲法法庭宣布了令人遺憾民主倒退的國會改革憲判結果身為憲法的守護者卻屈服於權力之下為了落實民主制度權者的分立杜絕行政機關逃避監督的謬框為要求行政官員不能說謊、卸責今年立院三讀通過了國會改革法案 |
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是為了要健全國會監督的機制矯正政治權利集中於個人或行政權的現況但大法官現判沒收了本應屬於立法委員的執行權、調查權、聽證權讓不符合民主政治運作的總統繼續有權無責行政官員與被詢使可以公然說謊執政黨可以護航不法的官員 |
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這樣子有可能繼續讓行政機關怠惰避責因此對提名人必須說明清楚對國會改革的立場與見解的論述因為沒有權者相輔的責任政治離完善的民族就天壤地別的差距了 |
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今年來對於不少機構對於司法信任度進行了民調結果顯示大多數的民眾不信任司法今年多項民調的指標都顯示過半的台灣民眾 |
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今年8月一項民調顯示 |
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至今對於之前8年完全執政的民進黨政府所推動的司法改革民眾非常滿意的只佔6.7%還算滿意的只佔17.4%當人民普遍對以表達對司法的高度不滿時在行使同意權時這些人選是否能夠讓司法被信任是重要的考量因素之一 |
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我們期待大法官在憲政、政治與社會等重大爭議事件上能夠積極地扮演英靈的角色循序漸進地推進國家與社會的變革也必須要有遠大的大法官不考量太多的當權者意志與政治正確 |
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祈許大法官要為明日而生而非為今日而爭重要的是要具備足夠的法學素養還有獨立性還有豐富的人生經歷這應該是被關注的終點以上 |
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謝謝吳春城委員的發言特別跟審查小組的委員的詢問跟各位學者專家報告一下,據發言完畢我們現在進行最後一個程序請學者專家針對剛才各位審查委員的所有的詢問提出綜合答覆,沒有學者專家發言三分鐘我們首先再請我們林滕耀教授,請好,謝謝院長 |
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剛才聽了很多的發言以後發現大家對於憲政的這個東西好像都不太關切所以我最關切的就是現在這些大法官提名人他們對於憲政的看法對於憲政的關切的程度我認為是不及格的 |
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特別是少數政府、少數總統的賴清德他對於憲政已經有三個大的禍害第一個就是說要到立法院跟人民報告結果他又不來了第二個最大的他嚴重的問題說我當選總統以後行政院長要經過人民的立法院同意 |
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現在也沒有啊第三個就是大選的半年,當了總統半年多了竟然夥同啊,除了他自己以外還夥同立法院的黨團、民進黨黨團還有行政院和司法院提這個國會改革違憲案的這個案子 |
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是非常不對的因為你要想想 行政院 憲法規定清清楚楚行政院經過復議後這個行政院要接受立法院的這個決議啊怎麼還可以提釋憲呢更荒唐的是 剛剛吳委員講過了監察院已經不是國會了嘛現在的大法官為什麼要給這個監察院調查權呢這是不對的事情啊 |
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因為唯一的國會是立法院你把立法院的教材全部砍掉這是非常不像話的大法官吧所以我才講現在的大法官已經變成憲政上的過街老鼠很多的民調都不贊同他們很多的民意都不支持他們所以我是覺得現在這個立法院要站穩腳跟因為 |
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大法官最重要的是守護憲政體制現在沒有守護憲政你像那個人民的人權各級法院都已經在保護了嘛而且一審一審在審啦所以大法官最重要的職責就是守護憲政現在憲政體制敗壞了這些大法官許忠利這一票人還有這些 |
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現在被提名的這些人完全漠視憲政體制的敗壞專門跟著要附和民進黨我講的難聽一點就是民進黨化的大法官人民進黨化的大法官能夠受到人民同意嗎當然不可以謝謝謝謝林滕耀教授的寶貴發言接下來我們再請第二位劉書斌教授請 |
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憲法法庭院大法官是憲法的守護者的確是必須要有幾個非常重要的標準就是專業、良知、操守 |
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公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議 |
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他在於說因為已經是我們因為憲法訴訟法裡面特別強調的是他要能夠他做的是這個已經是變成審判化那這樣的一個司法化裁判化這個過程當中他必須要有法官的這樣的一個資歷然後才能夠知道說他在遇到到所謂的實務經驗上面的時候怎麼樣去應對回應到民眾跟現實當中社會的期待那在這個前提之下的時候 |
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公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議 |
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能夠承擔這些的責任在這樣的情況之下的時候所以他的實務經營就非常重要另外我們看到作為審議憲法作為憲法守護者當中在審議過程當中目前的情況是二分之一全院委員二分之一出席之後二分之一在同意這個情況之下其實都比 |
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太多的在做憲法在規定的這樣的一個同意權或是說議決法案的這樣的過程事實上都門檻要低尤其像包括在我們剛剛知道的是說四字的憲判的第8號解釋當中 |
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司法院的對於死刑的這樣一個宣判的這個情況之下必須要全部的委員都要同意法官都要同意這個情況來講更是一個低的門檻既然是針對憲法的守護者的時候特別是如果目前的這樣子的一個二分之一通過的這樣的一個表決的同意事實上是太過低於對於一個慎重來講是沒辦法達成的所以在這個情況之下 |
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非常感謝劉淑冰教授寶貴意見接下來請第三位我們林俊宏教授請 |
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謝謝主席其實剛剛聽了前面就是專家跟委員的發言其實我有一個疑問其實最大的疑問是說今天我們到底在審什麼我們是在審前任的大法官還是在審查即將要進來的大法官我們好像在討論的都是之前大法官對於先前解釋的意見那我們對於我們現在要進行人事同意權的這幾位大法官的部分我覺得好像沒有太多的討論 |
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那再加上我們剛剛的討論好像也避極的focus在兩個部分一個就是113憲判八就是死刑的部分跟113憲判九也是立法院職權行使法的部分那這也是前面的大法官做的那我們是不是在做審查的時候我想立法院在審查的時候應該是要再討論說接下來我們可能會成為大法官的這一些人是不是適合 |
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而不是去討論說過去我們不認同過去大法官的看法我不認同過去大法官的見解所以我不認同他們所以我也不認同現在即將進來的人我覺得這個邏輯的跳躍其實是有點比較難以理解的第二個部分我想特別提的是剛剛一直提到關於113憲判8死刑這件事情這個部分可以直接拿出來討論的是因為我覺得有很多的誤解其實在法律的實務上 |
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113憲判八現在被理解成說我們好像創造了新標準其實如果是觀察台灣的實務的眼睛來看的話113憲判八所建構的非犯情節罪嚴重之罪的這個標準從哪裡來的是從我們的公民與政治權利公約來的是公正公約來的2009年通過公正公約之後我們最高法院在2012年開始進行了相關的生死變 |
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11394.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11421.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
2009年的公民政治權利公約是誰簽的是誰把它引進的如果大家沒有去查 稍微查一下應該是我們的馬總統引進的我們很樂意的去引進國際公約我們很樂意的立了一個施行法把國際公約成為我們的國內法這個是我們先前的一個政治決定那也讓我們的法律進行相關的適用所以最高法院在公正公約的脈絡之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11422.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11450.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
依照我們的實務見解跟這個相關的規範建立了最嚴重犯刑的標準然後逐步的把它完整化我們再去觀察憲判制113憲判8它的實質內容跟我們過去最高法院的內容其實沒有什麼不一樣所以剛剛提到說因為我們大法官做了113憲判8影響我們的實務見解我覺得講反了啦它是最高法院的見解引領著我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11451.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11453.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
謝謝林俊宏教授寶貴的意見接下來我們請張建能教授請謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11479.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11486.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
身為實際上的受害者我講的就是人間煙火 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11488.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11511.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
發生在可能以後也會發生在你我身上的問題剛才提到兩公約我最感受最深的他根本就沒有廢除死刑那要判死刑是要犯最嚴重之罪誠如我剛才第一次發言提問的何謂最嚴重之罪沒有定義 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11513.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11514.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
大法官：第11屆第2會期第2次全院委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11542.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11561.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
事先案它跟刑事是不可分割的因為它就影響最高法院逐級的法官的審判怎麼可以分割呢?就像一個刑案它又性侵又搶劫又殺人你可以分開審判嗎?各位想想看 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11563.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11582.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
這第一點我們都知道啦我雖然不是法律專業但是我也有邏輯的思考的能力我們想想看憲法是國家的根本大法剛才很多學者專家還有委員都提到大法官是在維護憲法 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11585.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11601.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
他解釋他偏差了你怎麼維護他反而造法立法所以是不是應該好好的把大法官提名人以往的所作所為做一併的來考量因為事關重大 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11602.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11603.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
公聽會．事由．第11屆第2會期第2會期 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11627.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11651.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
我要引詢指的啦馬遜要順服你才能夠求他好不好求其良世代夫你要求他信切要信使才來知道他求他有沒有智能我們大法官的提名人都是水養豐富可是各方面我們是不是要嚴加的審查我是認為這應該列入考慮謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11653.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11680.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
謝謝張其能教授寶貴的意見接下來我們再請洪偉聖教授請是 謝謝院長 謝謝在座先進千絲萬縷我只挑幾個重點來跟大院報告第一個還是回應到我剛才在簡報最後提到的如果說大院針對這個人選坦白說剛才聽到很多描述性的字眼比如說大法官要專業、良知、做憲法的守護者真的沒有人會反對但是問題是在於什麼在於說那 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11680.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11709.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
那如果這些人不適合,那適合的人在哪裡?我剛才其實聽著這個羅委員講的一陣言詞說這個實行支持實行他就投不下去坦白說我有點膽戰心驚為什麼?因為這個大家也知道李念祖律師是這個跟職政黨的立場不一定相近事實上也很多社會或在野黨是或者說國會的多數黨是支持的他是實行案的這個代理人那如果要講得這麼斬定截鐵我們要把他排除在外面嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11710.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11719.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
或者是說剛才說年紀太大就這個投不下去那要把他排除在外嗎這個我一直提到的原因也在這裡就是說我們要 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11720.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11747.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
不要要跳脫那些描述性的字眼具體而來看如果這個人不適合我認為有哪一個人跟他的手背後指一樣而且更好的我想這才是這個有助於整個審訊程序的那第二個我也很認同所謂的這個大法官應該要適合適時的跟當權者對立不過有個疑問啦就是說譬如說我現在在這邊發言到底我是要支持藍白才是跟當權者對立還是支持綠的才是支持跟當權者對立 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11749.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11775.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
我不知道但是我有一個觀察可以提供給大院思考在這些被提名人當中有非常多人提到他們在過去戒嚴時期威權時代的感受跟經驗從而對他的人生做出很大的決定很多的法律人同樣經過了威權跟過去戒嚴時代但是會做出不同的選擇有人即使到戒嚴之後民主化之後仍然鞏固支持威權 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11776.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11803.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
那我們在東歐跟中南美已經看到了有非常多的過去的威權體制現在仍然希望用著利用民主來反民主藉著人權來打壓人權這個是所有新興民主國家的共同擔憂那這一批的大法官當中既然有非常多的這個被提名人有表示過他們有曾經同樣的經驗也因此做出人生的重要選擇對於威權、戒嚴、人權保障有著相當的堅持 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11804.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11833.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
我想這正是我們需要的大法官對於人權、民主、自由的堅持那跟當權者對立就像我提到了目前的台灣社會當權者隨時會改變我們很難說支持或者過去哪一個見解他就是支持當權者或者是跟當權者對立最後20秒我想談省建程序台灣不是德國我們是總統制不是內閣制剛才提到的這個司法院組織法4條的各款如果說大院真的認為只要 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11833.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11835.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
謝謝洪偉正教授的寶貴意見接下來我們請陳瑞仁教授請發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11855.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11881.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
我想今天大家都在集中應不應該為反對而反對那我想如果要避免被人家講說是為反對而反對的話我想還是要透過實質的審查來突顯說是有一個中立性跟公平性那我想第一個當然就是要避免情緒性的字眼的話應該會比較好一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11883.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11894.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
至於說應不應該考慮過去的大法官的一些見解事實上這個是如果是有用一個角度來看也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11895.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11912.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
你認為大法官裡面保守派太多了那應該加一點自由派的進去那才能夠讓它平衡這個時候去檢討過去有它的意義在所以不能說都不要去討論過去但是討論過去的原因是在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11916.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11927.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
第二個當然我們不要因為某一個人曾經聯署過什麼或參加過什麼就反對而應該再問他說你的理念在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11928.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11944.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
那你的理念會不會影響到你日後在法律間接上的那種決定還是你會很中性的、很理性的去聽別人的意見這一點再繼續問下去第三個 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11947.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11970.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
我比較具體的意見就是說我認為各個黨團應該在這一次審查之後要把成績單交出來也就是說對每一個被提名人你們的評價在哪裡把它列出來像美國律師公會他們是有把被批評的人列為五個等級然後評分之後送給參議院參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11972.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11995.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
所以這種做法我們覺得我國可以把它引進來就是說我們立法委員確實有在打分數而不是說意氣用事啦那最後一點我就說我為什麼會一直強調說曾經在犯罪的原野或者法庭的地板上拿著 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11996.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11997.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
副院長：第11屆第2會期 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12022.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12046.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
謝謝陳瑞仁教授的寶貴意見接下來請蘇彥圖教授請是 謝謝我想要針對三個問題提出我的一個簡單的回應第一個是我感覺到說我們聽到一個論點就是一代不如一代論就可能會覺得說以前的大法官都很受到大家的尊敬但現在大法官已經沒有或者說以前的提名都非常的嚴謹但是這一次並不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12047.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12071.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
那我個人從可能要提出一個另外一個解讀就是說也許問題並不是出在說以前的大法官特別優秀後來的大法官越來越不優秀或者說我們這次的提名比較變得比較更更不公正或更不嚴謹而是因為我們的社會改變了我們的社會變得更加的政治對立對立得更加嚴重以至於即便是 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12073.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12096.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
總統提出來是溫和的、理性的、有事格的大法官人選也會被部分的人認為說他非常的不好所以這個問題所以我們進一步就會去希望說我們一方面也希望說我們的大法官都能夠公正獨立的行使職權那我們就會希望我們的選驗程序也能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12097.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12097.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12116.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12116.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
公聽會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12137.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12137.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
副院長：第11屆第2會期 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12154.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12154.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
公聽會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12173.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12173.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
公聽會議公聽會議公聽會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12199.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12208.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
非常感謝蘇彥圖教授的寶貴發言也跟各位學者專家特別報告一下非常感謝大家今天歷任立法院非常感謝我們綜合答覆就進行到此 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12226.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12247.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
各位剛才的寶貴發言對於我們立法院這個公聽會對於未來立法委員在行使同意權的時候有非常重大的幫助再次感謝那剛才各位的發言我們都會列入紀錄也跟大家報告一下那很快就會投票了我想這個投票大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12249.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12249.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
委員會主席 |
| IVOD_ID |
16328 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16328 |
| 日期 |
2024-12-02 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-12-02T08:30:30+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-12-02T11:55:59+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |