| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8398b1826590a6090d48a73477a26751854fbf32ecbfc659b104c5adbfed68f7e49d8c74f6542c0c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-29T14:30:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第2會期第1次全院委員會（事由：總統咨，為考試院第十三屆院長、副院長及考試委員任期於113年8月31日屆滿，茲依據憲法增修條文第6條第2項規定，提名周弘憲為考試院第十四屆院長，許舒翔為考試院第十四屆副院長，邱文彥、鄧家基、王秀紅、呂秋慧、柯麗鈴、黃東益、伊萬．納威Iwan Nawi 7位為考試院第十四屆考試委員，咨請同意案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 影片長度 |
15872 |
| 委員發言時間 |
14:00:28 - 18:25:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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報告全院委員會現在繼續開會今天下午分別審查考試院考試委員被提名人邱文彥、鄧家基之資格及是否私人相關事項現在先審查被提名人邱文彥之資格相關事項請被提名人邱文彥先生說明時間為10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1853.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1877.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
主席、各位委員今天能以考試院第十四屆考試委員被提名人的身份列席大院全院委員會進行報告並接受同意權行使的審查和詢答聲譽榮幸與責任重大以下緊就個人學經歷以及心得與期許提出報告敬請各位委員指教一、學歷我畢業於國立成功大學都市計畫系之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1878.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1904.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
考取國立中心大學法上學院都市計劃研究所．以及都市計劃人員高考的資格在內政部營建署服務4年後．考取教育部公費留考、環境保護法、學門獎學金．前往美國賓州大學進修．取得碩士博士學位．逐步在環境保護、空間規劃和永續發展的領域．奠定學術研究和公職服務的專業及信念 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1906.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1933.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
二、建立民國80年唯有美國返臺正教育國立中山大學海洋環境系事後轉往國立臺灣海洋大學海洋事務與資源管理研究所擔任專任教授、所長、法政學院院長退休後獲聘為兩所大學的榮譽講座教授學術研究上主要關注在海洋政策、海洋事務、海洋空間規劃、國土計畫、海岸管理、私地保育、環境保護、水下文化資產保存等專業領域 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1935.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1953.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
過去20年來﹐個人從海洋與環境學者的角度﹐積極參與政府相關事務與科研計畫﹐協助編撰海洋政策白皮書﹐並提出海洋國家論述這些論述被轉化為不同政黨的施政理念此外﹐個人並籌辦世界海洋與臺灣研討會﹐負責研理宣言 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1956.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1981.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
策略、行動綱領等．將歷屆論文集結成系列重組．提供政府推動海洋事務之參考．進而推升我國海洋委員會．在國際事務方面．我曾參與亞太經濟合作組織IPEM．海洋保育工作組兼20年．每年主辦私人部門參與海洋環境永續性原作會議．也編輯海洋與漁業工作組聯合特刊． |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1982.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2001.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
此外曾多次參加聯合國氣候變化干預工業年度大會以及國際自然保育重要會議藉力爭取我國的權益和能見度例如民國81年我協助起草世界保育組織IUCN陽明山宣言促成東沙環礁國家公園的成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2003.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2012.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
此其被認為是臺灣第一個海洋保護區．上述經驗使我深刻提升到．文官社會能力和國際參與的重要性．高階文官也應有全方位的訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2015.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2035.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
立法經驗明國82年我起草《環境教育法》並於環保署副組長任內完成立法明國101年擔任第8屆全國部分區立法委員四年期間本於學術專業和積極立法獲得跨黨派委員之信任與支持順利通過海洋委員會組織四法國土三法、學校文化資產保存法 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2036.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2061.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
溫氏氣體減量及管理法等十二項立法或許在大院服務期間每一項重大法案均親自參與研擬、討論、跨黨派協商個人的學術專業整合協調、政務信任及催生立法的經驗相信有助於考試院考選事務、法案研修溝通和培訓規劃、管理與法證的人才如有機會必當全力以赴四、參與考試院願務期許 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2064.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2077.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
考試院是依據憲法超脫黨派、獨立行使職權、為國舉財、培訓和保障文官制度的重要憲政機關民國100年我候聘為高普考典事委員111年為命題兼月卷委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2079.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2099.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
同年擔任海洋行政內專長審查會議召集人．協助考選部辦理海洋人才專長分類．並檢討考試科目與方式．這些事務經驗應可繼續強化．希望對於國家考試有更多的注意．未來能參與考試院務．將致力於下來工作．一、考試方式與其距離 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2101.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2120.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
時代與社會不斷變遷．國家發展也面臨不同階段和需求．因此國家考試必須與時俱進．例如因應智慧化時代．和年輕世代普遍使用3C產品的新趨勢．數位化環境與考試方式已有所調整．未來是否應增加更多數位化考科． |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2122.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2146.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
試題佔比和考場．比試是否開放計算機應用．人工智慧AI在考選事務上又如何．應如何應用與管理相信都是重要的研究和議題但依據近年來命題與月間經驗．考生書寫和思考的能力是有退步此外純科學與社會科學的考試．命題方式也有所不同例如某些社會科學尤其是法證類課． |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2148.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2176.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
的命題材選擇題方式可能未竟適合多元社會或復雜的設計議題有些命題如果側重十倍視覺也可能抹殺考生思考空間和論述能力因此如何設計運用多元的測驗方式一方面強化學生思考、組織與論述能力另一方面提升考試品質與公正性將是我對命題和考試方式關切的重點二、考試切合 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2177.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2196.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
考試應切合用人機關需求．教考訓練用的傳統思維．需要以目標為導向．逆向思考．由國家和用人機關需求出發．兼顧運用考交的反思．才能使國家有優秀人才可用．學校教學設計．也能貼近社會需求．社會趨勢和國家需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2197.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2226.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
換言之教學和考選制度及其與用人機關的需求必須切合很多國家或企業非常重視信像測驗、人格測驗﹐邏輯訓練、表達能力和創新管理除了基本專業考課外﹐未來的文官考試有必要更加重視﹐口試的運用和佔比此外加強考選與用人機關的對話﹐以及用人機關的參與也將日行重要三、建立國家考試研究機制﹐考選方式必須嚴謹和公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2227.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2227.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
MING PAO CANADA MANGA |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2228.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2257.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
參考國外制度如日本、韓國及人事考選機關構﹐不乏設立研究部門的案例我國考試院或所屬部會﹐未來是否應成立國家考試測驗研究所或中心﹐以建立題庫和口試標準化作業﹐是個人關心的目標此外﹐某些部門、行業或離島地區﹐在外語需求、專業食物興業﹐和地區的特殊性上也有不同的考慮因此考試制度也需因地制宜不斷優化 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2259.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2272.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
國外如新加坡對於清涼和高階文官的培訓體制﹐有期可取之處﹐個人期望持續就適用於我國的優劣利弊﹐進行可行性分析﹐並提出建議是國際事業與專業認證﹐以我過去關注的 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2275.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2296.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
海洋領域委員．相關官員必須知道．攸關國家權益的．最新協議和措施趨勢．例如國家管轄領域外區域．多生物多樣性保育協定．和近日在韓國釜山召開的．全球塑膠工業第五輪懲判．對我國的遠洋漁業、外貿產業．國民健康和生態環境等． |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2297.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2320.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
都有可能產生重大衝擊此外我國雖然通過了海洋產業發展條例和海洋保育法但尚未落實與實現因此例如海洋保護區、海洋空間規劃、藍色經濟、氣候變遷和海洋碳匯如何接軌國際、人才如何培養和認證都是先進議題文觀予以備具一定的素養和知識才能讓我國成為與海共榮的海洋國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2321.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2345.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
近年來政府大力推動2050淨零碳排、離岸風電、生態與環境整合．全國生態綠網、水下考古、自然保育與景觀保護的政策．應有關碳排管理師、海洋規劃師．海洋工程技師、生態技師、景觀技師．和水下考古人員認證等．有倡議．為事後合一、仍以能代多方對話． |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2346.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2365.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
建立明確的人才培育和認真的制度這些都是個人期望能整合各方意見．有所貢獻的課題或許努力依據中華民國憲法增修條文第6條．考試院為國家最高考試機關．掌理考試權序保障復續退休及任免考積 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2366.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2383.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
及奉升遷褒獎法證事宜個人由過去的教學及參與國家考試事務中深刻提認到此一國家憲政機關的重要性個人在考試行政立法部門的歷練相信可協助考試院事務經濟、法治溝通和政策推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2384.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2402.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
為未盡閒守與或深入的部分．將虛心聽啟．大院各位委員、考試院同仁．相關機關和權益各方之意見．進行研究與務實回應．羅盟大院同意為考試委員．將一本初衷．努力貢獻．不負所託．敬請各位委員指教謝謝好 謝謝邱備提名忍之說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2410.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2422.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
現在進行委員詢問每位委員詢答時間20分鐘採疑問疑答方式進行輪到詢問委員如不在場視為棄權首先請蘇委員侵權詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2443.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2464.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
謝謝主席我請邱委員請邱備提名人委員好邱委員我請你邱委員因為我們第8屆立委我們是同事現在主席也是同事 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2468.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2484.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
為了你的事情我昨天還去請教國民黨副署長那我因為你在馬英九時代第一個問題之後你在馬英九時代當環保署副署長然後在112年20162012到2016你還是部分區那所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2492.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2513.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
請問因為公務人員的忠誠度非常重要那你以前有當過國民黨執政期十幾的政務官立法委員那你或考試院提名前後是否有向黨部報備或者是徵求同意或者黨部來推薦你跟蘇委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2515.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2537.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我是依據總統府秘書長在3月5號行文給全國150所大三院校還有包括幾個機關團體的方式來進行申請的這個過程當中我事實上只認為是 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2538.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2553.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這是一個從大專院校徵才海選的過程我並不清楚還有其他的任何的管道這是第一個說明那第二個就是我認為這個考試院依照憲法的規定第88條的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2555.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2585.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那考試委員必須要超脫黨派之外依照法律來獨立行使職權所以我認為考試院應該不應該有政黨的色彩或者是政治的色彩而應該是超然獨立的為文官制度的領選培訓跟他的保障來盡力那我認為這兩點是希望所以你不是國民黨政黨推薦嗎我完全不知道還有這個管道 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2587.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2615.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
所以就讓立法院來做決定來投票看看你能不能獲聘會不會通過當然我們追蹤大院的任何決定好那等到投票結果再說了第二個問題你在國外念了碩士博士在UPenn嘛對不對是那你在那邊幾年 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2617.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2642.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我在那邊七年,從1984年到1991年那你的小孩是不是有在那邊出生的老大在台灣出生,兩歲的時候跟著去念書小的在那邊出生那現在最近台灣有搞外國學歷搞到上街頭什麼的我倒是要問你,因為在國外受教育的 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2644.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2668.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我們因為留學、遷徙、移民或者是婚姻而不得不到國外去有一些外交官的小孩也在那邊出生就像你的小孩那他在國外念書回來到台灣以前是非常的平順那現在搞到這樣因為一個波瀾的學歷的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2671.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2688.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
然後搞到現在全世界回來的伊學院校的像我看到在NYU的回來的也不能考試考試又不能實習那你的看法你當考試委你的看法是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2690.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2709.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
各位報告我想這個很多事情我們不能單從一個個案或是一個特例來看待應該綜合性的來看待所謂的問題那如果我們回歸到這個憲法的一個規定憲法第15條人民的工作權本來就應該保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2710.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2735.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
所以我認為說婆婆醫生的問題是一個議題但是大家應該可以來非常平心靜氣的來討論這個議題到底是怎樣不應該是單獨針對某一個族群或者某一個群體我覺得這一點大家一起來討論但是過去考試院這邊事實上是 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2736.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2763.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
配合衛福部提出的考試規則所以任何的考試規則考試院在制定的時候都不是依照各個目的事業主管機關所提出來的相關需求或者是規定然後我們把它納入考試規則我的意思就是說你有到國外去受教育你應該會比較宏觀高度要夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2766.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2793.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
全世界九大地區的念醫學牙醫的藥學的回來到臺灣我們就直接認可他的學歷甚至於以前在日本只要念到博士學位考上日本的醫師執照回到臺灣就可以直接換證書喔那後來又要考試了那現在就九大地區的像南非、香港、日本等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2794.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2810.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
現在回來全部今年入學的全部都要回來考鑑定考試就是Pretest鑑定考試考完鑑定考試醫學的Pretest的及格率才10%牙醫的才6% |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2815.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2816.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
副院長 副院長 副院長 副院長 副院長 副院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2836.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2846.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
他二考過之後才有醫師證書然後進到教學院裡面才要進入PGY1、Y2還要兩年台灣這個制度差不多全世界第一名 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2856.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2879.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
這張會不會走回頭路現在在美國在你念哈佛大學念史丹佛啦像我們主席的小孩子在Texas嘛在Texas回來要途中要這樣一人一人考以前這樣是什麼意思啊台灣第一名台灣什麼都想搞是這樣嗎你在看我 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2881.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2898.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
謝謝蘇委員我想過去蘇委員對這個醫療系統都非常的清楚了對這個醫生的這個培訓的過程也非常清楚那我也回想到過去在賓州大學美國賓州大學呢他的醫學院是非常好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2900.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2922.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
有些國家的醫療水準培訓的嚴謹度是非常高的所以這個部分到底要不要分開來處理或者是說我們分級來處理其實我們必須要看一下衛福單位的意見醫護單位的意見來做一個合適的處理我想考試院這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2923.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2951.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
如果我們有這個機會去服務的話我們會聽取各方的意見來做審慎的配合這個你一定要用宏觀的角度為這個拉高一點不然的話這樣每一個人都是鑽牛角尖每一個人都海島國家的特性狹隘這是很糟糕的事情我們再這樣走回頭路的話台灣是會退步的 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2952.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2956.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
在國外念法律系、念會計系你回來不要讓他考會計師、讓他考律師嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2960.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2983.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
在美國本地人要申請醫學院也不太好申請那如果你是拿綠卡的那更不好申請那美國人自己申請醫學院醫學系4年加4年第二個4年如果申請不到他們就跑到加拿大去申請跑到美國的屬地譬如說波多黎各、格雷納達那邊他們有一些學校都在那邊設婚校 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2984.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3010.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
在那邊唸了再申請是你得到的話就一部分時間在美國一部分時間在那個屬地那這個還OK另外再來再申請不到他們就跑到歐洲去唸就所謂產生歐盟有一些藝學是有一些英文班啊什麼班那舊歐盟15個國家新歐盟10個國家他們都混在一起歐盟是混在一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3011.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3034.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
那我據我了解你在匈牙利念、你在西班牙念他們的最後一次的畢業考就是美國的醫師考試的Part 1那你這邊考過之後就是畢業了那你就可以直接到美國的醫院去實習他們是這樣所以是拿那個Part 1的考試來當作畢業考 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3038.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3066.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
非常好阿那台灣現在跑去那邊練的就跟人家一起讀嘛讀英文班嘛阿敢講到這樣汙名化、講到這樣很卑賤的言語就是霸凌、霸凌、霸凌就像我們現在在霸凌這樣齁我是覺得大可不必啦你要考試你就像剛剛你要一關一關考你要一關一關考我們都沒有意見但是他只要能考得過表示說他是Qualify嘛你的看法怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3067.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3095.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
我想這個每一個學校訓練的嚴謹度還有他這個實習的時間那麼過去的一些醫療的一個經驗等等都應該綜合評估了然後讓每一個學校或者是每一個地區的水準我們大家都寥如指掌我覺得這樣子的話不是針對某一個特定的族群或者是群體他在制定的這個考試規則才會是適材適所而且是比較公平正義 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3098.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3126.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
因為我們台灣跟國際接軌所以我們一定要放開心胸我們用人家人才人家用我們的人才這是天經地義嘛所以我昨天看那個ASML他們說他們的好幾百個員工都是台灣過去的這是好事啊他們也會回來嘛所以不要那麼狹隘好那接著我再問你現在霸凌那麼嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3128.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3133.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
你們考試院那個保訓會啊到底扮演什麼角色你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3134.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3158.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
依照公務人員保障法第19條我們當然是有這個責任因為公務人員的衛生跟安全的部分必須要制定相關的措施這個部分制定法律的部分是考試院的職責考試院這邊我相信未來會多聽取大家的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3159.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3170.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
我們考試院有一個安全衛生的辦法是保訓會那行政院又搞一個員工資產霸凌防治流程這兩個有沒有打架 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3172.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3197.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
這個是各有各的一個行政體制因為這個部分的確委員點出一個很重要的一個觀點就是我們到底有沒有一個比較通盤性的全盤性這個比較整體性的一個看法例如說有些的這個防制霸凌它叫做作業的準則有些叫做要點那有的叫標準流程那你會認為行政院這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3202.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3210.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
這個制度啊 不會關關相覆啦﹖或者是掩蓋事實啦﹖或者是施案啦﹖你們認為會不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3212.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3240.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
當然外界有疑慮所以我是說我們這個制度的建立必須要非常的嚴謹所以這個部分我是覺得我們應該要各方要一起來對話所以你如果有機會的話你們這個保訓會一定要好好的來加強功能不要讓人家看不到你們在扮演什麼角色再來我們考試院有一個國家文官學院 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3241.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3266.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
行政也有一個公務人力發展學院這兩個是在做什麼這兩個功能不太一樣在考試院的部分他比較強調是在出任文官升官等的升等比如說兼任升到檢任甚至是高階文官的培訓但是行政人事總署的這個機制他是比較從這個在職訓練所以兩個這個是不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3270.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3289.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
所以現在建任的要升檢任的要上文官授訓是去文官授訓還是在行政院授訓應該是考試院如果沒了解錯誤的話所以那個那個行政院這一個是一個一個是什麼下令營再次訓練再次訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3292.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3320.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
就等於夏令營的意思啦就是他現在已經有工作了然後再讓他培養他的一個所以你們考試院本身要硬起來啊你們這樣搞什麼啊我看你們都人家都把你全部要幹掉啦然後最後最嚴重就是你們說沒有考試委員期間你們考選部部長、全系部部長、保訓會主委三個人就可以開會緊急必要事項自己搞一搞那這樣選你們考試委員幹嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3322.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3346.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
我想這個是不得已的一個措施因為我們遲遲考試委員沒有上任所以依照這個相關的法律或者憲法授予的這個權利他都必須有一定的延期的行政程序所以如果沒有的話他是有所不足的所以沒有考試委員還沒產生之前這三個人就可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3347.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3375.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
那是在做一些緊急而必要的那你們將來如果成立之後要追認嗎?要追認,一樣一樣追認嗎?我想應該會的應該會啦因為啦,你們科技委員很重要你的重要是在哪裡?非你們不可,你們要秀出來啊不然我覺得,好像有也好沒也好我們會努力所以你們要拿起來啊好,最後一個問題齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3376.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3401.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
你跟田丘警委員在第8屆的時候你們就是海洋委員會就是你們兩個推出來的嘛那我那現在的海巡署就是在海洋委員會下面嘛那我沒有推那個海巡署你就把他當作第二海軍就當作第二海軍在噗嚨啊你看現在在海岸跟對岸的那個海警船 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3403.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3422.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
軍艦不敢出去嘛 不敢對幹都用海警船 都用我們的海巡署下去我們的小船去碰大船我是覺得他們很危險耶文彥兄你覺得怎麼樣警修 剛剛您的題目是好像是要提到將來警修的這個能不能組工櫃嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3423.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3439.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
主工會以外就是他們的退休軍第二海軍嘛你就比照軍人嘛95%、90%、85%也可以啊不能把他們當作一般警察都都逗某鬧鬧的啊就出事啊呼吸一下我覺得這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3441.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3463.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
太粗魯了吧 你認為呢 這個是你跟田蕉井催生出來的 我要看你的立場我想這個錦霄的工作非常的辛苦 那海選署的工作當然也是不例外所以我也非常的諒解 體認就是海洋委員會所有工作同仁的辛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3464.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3485.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
但是這個警消是不是要比照軍人有更好的待遇所以我們現在的機制已經比一般的公務人員他的待遇、他的退休、提早的年齡等等都有比較好的一個規劃所得替代力很差我覺得我們對公務人員你們這個保訓的 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3487.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3509.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
國務院的信賴保護原則希臘碰到經濟危機在財務在怎麼爛已經整個中央銀行都要配德國德意志銀行收編被人家接收了他們對於原來的退休人員他們還是承諾還是繼續堅持下去希臘有倒嗎沒有倒啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3509.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3527.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
有更差嗎 沒有啊 現在看起來越來越好啊所以這種政府跟人家簽約 你要當念軍校也好 念警察也好那個當初都是簽約的 簽了之後就退後你轉到台 到台 到台 你認為這樣合理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3531.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3553.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
我覺得從大方向當然我們對政府的財政也必須維持它的穩定但是不同的職業有不同的需求應該可以來討論所以我覺得這個部分我們會多聽取大家的意見來提出我們的看法最後一個問題剛剛你講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3556.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3560.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
營銷 消防人員也是很危險消防人員他們要組工會等等 你的看法怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3562.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3585.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
主公會事實上每一個國家的制度不太一樣有些國家它的錦梟是可以主公會的但是它有一定的限制有些是不能主公會因為這裡面涉及到罷工權的問題錦梟的職務其實它是公法的一個關係而且是對人民的生命財產是非常的重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3586.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3586.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
主席主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3606.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3624.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
希望能夠兼顧到我們錦霄的權益所以這個部分怎麼樣保障錦霄的權益讓他們有更好的一個生活環境、工作環境這才是真正的關鍵還有最後就是因公殉職跟因公死亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3625.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3645.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
這個常常很大的爭議所以你們考試委員、全席部一定要站在公務人員的立場不要處處刁難搞了好幾個案子全部都是很辛苦那這些委員一個比一個頭腦還硬 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3648.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3665.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
這個你如果有信應上去這一點要堅持好不好會的我們會感同身受的有共同力心的來繼續努力謝謝好謝謝蘇委員謝謝邱備提名人下一位請王美惠委員詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3686.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3692.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
主席,我們請求被提名人請被提名人答詢王議員好你好應該也要尊稱你一個學長在第8屆時你做過我們的立委是國民黨提名你的 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3712.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3713.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
我現在還是國民黨籍 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3741.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3748.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
因為在這裏我認為應該是我們考試院裏的部份黨派﹑外交會團選都說 要進來做官的選要有民進黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3760.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3780.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
我們可以看出我們的總統提名率不分黨派但是有人說補助也有可能你提名率高,國民黨有邀請你回去收名你是如何來擔任這個政府委員會請問你,你能否回去收名 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3785.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3799.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
跟委員報告這是有的因為我在5月31號獲得總統府提名的時候就在第一個時間因為中午就結束嘛下午1點鐘的時候我就立刻聯繫中央黨部 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3800.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3818.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
有跟依照秘書長的指示我在星期一的時候6月3號就到我們中央黨部去做親自的說明依照這個考記會的這個意見我們提供書面的說明所以我是有說明的 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3818.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3826.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
你有說明 本席跟你請教一個問題因為現在的幾個黨都紛紛擾擾 我覺得都沒辦法超越黨派今天你來投票的時候 你選擇這個節目的時候萬一國民黨你開競 其中一個人選 你會想法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3846.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3862.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
像黨部會有他自己的規定或是他自己的考量那這個部分我是尊重我們黨的這個決定但是如果有幸進去到考試院依照憲法的規定考試委員本來就超脫黨派 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3863.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3881.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
這次提名也有看到兩位國民黨的一位原住民其實他是跨黨派所以我從開始參與的時候我就沒有這個概念說他是哪一個黨哪一個派的事情這是國家的事情保障國家文官制度的一個該做的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3882.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3897.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
因為聽出來你的說明 我覺得這樣很好可以超越黨派 可以替一個國家做事情是很大的影響所以在這今天 大家跟我說 大家問一些問題在第二天的時候 剛才你有報告來賓你身為台北街的委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3907.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3918.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
提案很多：若在本縣有人注意到：你的第一個提案：就是選辦法：你提案裡面：就是將我們現在的分分樓樓：在那裡緩解很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3922.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3937.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
的問題出在這 因為你提這樣的時候 你是提說要附帶新聞集我再問一下 到你現在已經過了十幾年了 你這個想法因為時空背景不一樣 環境也不一樣 你的想法到目前為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3944.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3963.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
你會有改變嗎?這個提案來因為這個提案當中有到二讀的時候三讀都沒有因為我們當時的王院長我們也可以大家多溝通、多協調還可以來選擇這個法要不然我們有起來了解說 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3968.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3969.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
您在第8屆議會的時候 跟您剛才說的時候是怎麼不去講到這個憲法法是不是就這個機會來講一下 來 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3979.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4003.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
好的我對這方面其實過去因為那是在剛開始在擔任立法委的時候提出來的所以我對整個相關事情的這個評估可能沒有那麼的清楚但是我覺得我們提出這個想法其實是可以來討論就是怎麼樣讓這個我們的制度是比較合理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4003.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4014.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
尤其是要不要付身份證這個銀牌的部分怎麼樣去認證如果是有一個更好的方法或是大家有一個共識的情況之下我覺得是可以討論的 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4015.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4022.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
現在的所解釋是 希望大家都有共識的時間來做比較好因為我認為 長久以來在2012年 那時候幾十年我們的國民黨的執政沒有發動 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4038.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4049.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
在八成的時期所以在時空八成的時候我相信你選擇這個選擇也有你當時的想法不過你未來的改善就是說我們能夠協調好、參選好這是最重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4059.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4075.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
本身也覺得你有你的專業因為我看出來的時候你包括對海巡署這個單位你非常有專業也有你未來的時候可以提出你的專業來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4081.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4086.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
因為考試院就是我們的公務人員最近大家都紛紛擾擾 會講的話就是做得不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4101.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4116.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
我聽人家霸凌這個問題的時候 中央有處理要不夠處理的當中 問題的處理很大在這 我要來去請教一個問題現在我們最近有 你應該有關心那個謝毅龍在基隆的大廈裏面面前 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4129.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4133.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
我想我們行政機關都是要依法行政 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4159.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4167.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
對啦當然要依法行政啦我現在跟你說的這也依法行政啦因為這個編輯不是他已經沒說 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4172.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4195.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
公務人員的主席他還是公務人員的主席他是現有的政府部委員他未來如果有公家機關還要來用的時候他還是還要有主席我們的面子不能讓他做公務人員是我們需要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4197.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4217.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
全屆委員會破關後應該送去他的公務人員的家是不是這樣來請你回答一下是的依照這個考試法的規定這個要打丁等例如是丁等或者是兩次大過免職 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4218.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4240.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
他必須有一定法定的程序所以考機法裡面有規定幾項的那個要件比如說你是背叛國家、貪污等等但是這個部分他還是要經過一個考機會的一個程序所以他今天免除這個指揮官是不是在行政程序上面還可以再做更周延一點但是另外一方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4242.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4267.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
真的如果這個部分要進行處理還是可以送到監察院監察院有懲戒懲戒會那邊懲戒法院那邊做判定才可以剝奪他的公務人員的資格所以他是有不同的程序也不同的這個規定所以有的不知道說要面子、要衣服套路不是這樣是要判決之後在這幾十年來 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4275.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4280.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
我們可以保證國務院委員會的﹐到目前為止﹐到四個人而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4281.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4293.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
有兩千多案都有判決．不過就是說．他的考試要如何處理．如何處理．因為我委員會來自之前．我們知道之前．本身要如何做考試．要如何在場．我們的長官、主管．如果能夠鼓勵．有時候沒有款式的人． |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4307.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4319.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
每一屆到幾年要考試的選﹖不是說本來的人都要來考試﹖沒有本來經常請教來考試的﹖不是這樣﹖所以我希望你了解﹖新任在這個節目時﹖我們去管理好﹖因為是怎麼會考試的﹖就是論理時﹖他會覺得說﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4337.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4358.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
他沒有背景：還有要照顧的：您的團委說要照顧的：要有人配合的：結果配合的都是：沒有款式：沒有主管：認真配合的人：所以我們：的父親：可以做好：還有保障： |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4359.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4379.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
困難的人、臨時的人撈的條．不過在這最主要、最最主要的．就是我們的保證公務人員．的法律法的當中．你沒有保管．沒有好的公務人員．繼續押鉤在． |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4384.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4388.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
這公務人員這才是最差勁的、最嚴重的 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4392.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4414.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
我非常敬佩委員我是覺得行政機關就像一個大家庭大家應該有同理心讓自己的員工所屬都能夠像自己的家人自己的朋友、自己的夥伴大家一起為政府來做服務為民眾做服務所以這個部分我是覺得我會把委員的高見帶回去 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4416.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4436.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
考試院如果有這個機會的話跟他們多多討論怎麼樣建立一個比較好的一個制度讓我們的公務人員能夠在一個比較合理的對待環境裡面充分發揮他的能量因為我認為世代沒有人以前做公務人員說實在的大家都想說我們就覺得說可以考到我們也覺得很榮幸會做但是背景沒有人 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4445.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4460.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
環境也不一樣的時候有時候不是說大家都會覺得說人家Q、人家80、人家什麼但是我覺得那個制度要透明化、要做得好這是最重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4463.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4480.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
在這裏面我再跟你討論一下我們的消防也好、健床也好有一個職業安全衛生法和公務人員有一個保障公務人員的款在這裏面有一個守護法現在這裏面有一個保護法我覺得在這裏面你認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4488.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4515.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
是怎樣我們的公務人員有甚麼做不到的應該要來成立這個工會嗎請你回答一下我想成立工會是一個選擇但是我們在成立工會有沒有其他的方式是可以來達到我們的目的比如說員工的福利他的工作環境的這個條件甚至他有一些爭議的時候怎麼處理這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4516.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4545.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
還有他的主管機關、上級主管機關怎麼要刻以他的責任這個部分能夠周詳的去考慮我覺得公會法當然是一種方式但是我們要考慮到公部門的一個公法之間的關係跟人民的安全福利的一個關係但是是不是現在送到大院來的協會法也是一個方式我覺得這兩個法之間應該大家來討論一下看看是用什麼樣的方式是比較合理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4546.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4573.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
因為這個法﹑我們公府法﹑就是有辦法去處理﹑有辦法去懲戒這是最重要的問題在這裏面 我覺得剛才本席就跟你說過了我們做考試院裏面的委員﹑就是抄議的黨派那未來你有帖子 你要給過關大家投票用台幣的時候 你想要賺 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4574.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4578.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
考試院來賓很想要做的事情：是否可以發表 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4583.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4605.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
我想這個到如果有機會到考試院我對這個考試制度的這個研究我是非常有興趣那因為每一個國家的制度不一樣我們常常講說新加坡、日本或哪裡的制度比較好但是它是不是適合在台灣因為台灣有不同的法的體制行政系統不太一樣這是一個我想要做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4605.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4625.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
另外當然國內有很多的很重大的政策比如說離岸風電、淨林碳排這些相關的這些技師們或者是專業人才怎麼去認證我覺得這一點也是非常重要因為這是牽涉到我們國家的永續發展也牽涉到我們國家的這個制度怎麼樣才讓這個真正的專業能夠發揮他的專長 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4629.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4656.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
所以類似這樣當然另外一方面因為我過去也參與一些國際的活動我覺得要爭取國家的權益非常重要就是對國際事務的關心所以涉外能力就是他對外的能力他對國際上參與其實非常重要就像我剛剛報告裡面提到的現在的這個全球塑膠公約這個可能會管理因為台灣的塑膠可能是百分之六、七十都是外銷的 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4657.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4680.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
所以會不會影響到我們的外貿所以這個跟國家的經濟發展非常有關係所以對高階公務人員：或者一般公務人員的：英文的能力：或者社外的能力：國際事務的關心我覺得這一點我會盡我的力量來協助考試院因為在這我認為你剛才的抱負來臨就是你的專業 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4683.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4695.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
因為你也真正擔任到我們的環保署的副署長所以聽你說這樣是很專業我常常說一句話沒分安逸、沒分黨派好的黨也有好的人才壞的黨也有好的人才所以好的人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4708.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4714.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
不管在你考到的時候都可以為國家做一些事情剛才你所說的那個禮典什麼我覺得非常對台灣來說非常重要所以要接種你的專業可以六個字 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4729.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4735.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
我希望你可以一一來協助﹐我們的政府的考試院﹐所有要做的東西﹐可以超越黨派﹐未來大家對你的家門﹐可以有這麼大﹐你我互相勉勵﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4760.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4785.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
可以贏過這次的提名我也在這祝福你平安謝謝委員超然的立場跟支持謝謝謝謝黃委員謝謝貝提名人下一位葉元芝委員還有范雲委員之質詢均以書面提出列入記錄刊登公報下一位請黃國昌委員詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4805.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4831.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
謝謝副院長是不是麻煩有請被提名人邱教授請邱被提名人答詢委員好被提名人好我想為了便於溝通我就稱呼您邱老師這樣可能一直喊被提名人邱文彥先生也很拗口 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4832.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4856.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
我想邱老師過去不管是擔任公職擔任立法委員或者是在學校任教有你一定的reputation不過也請邱老師要能夠理解在立法院這個國會的殿堂你也擔任過立法委員立法委員最重要的工作就是要站在人民的立場來行使這個人事同意權 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4857.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4886.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
所以接下來的問題或許會有一些直接請您不要見怪這是一個立委該做的事情您擔任立委應該可以充分理解吧是的好來第一個事情您是不是支持在公務人員保障法裡面徵定反霸凌條款我們應該要去修改修訂考試院所制定的這些法律比如說是公務人員保障法 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4889.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4912.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
所以您知不支持我支持你支持嘛有一件事情我要藉由這個質詢的機會提醒邱老師如果有一天你有幸擔任考試委員的話不要犯相同的錯誤我為什麼說你如果有幸擔任考試委員不要犯相同的錯誤我那一天 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4913.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4936.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
請教我們的院長被提名人我說他支不支持在公務人員保障法裡面徵定反霸凌條款他馬上同意在行使同意權的場域當中他會說同意我一點都不驚訝但讓我驚訝的是什麼我完成了那一場同意權行使的詢答以後我回去查了考試 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4937.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4963.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
院、院會所有的紀錄我赫然發現2021年就有考試委員在考試院的院會提出來在公務機關霸凌的狀況我國的法制不夠應該要修改結果發生了什麼事情邱老師您知道嗎讓我震驚的事情是發生的事情就是什麼都沒發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4965.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4990.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
有考試委員在院會提出了這個問題要學術部處理學術部什麼都沒做2022年相同的問題再被考試院院會提出來討論要求保訓會處理結果保訓會還是什麼都沒做在2024年的今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4992.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5015.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
當整個台灣社會為了精誠的公務員被霸凌到選擇結束自己的生命整個社會都在哀傷都在憤怒的時候我必須要老實的講上一屆的考試院難辭其咎上一屆的考試院難辭其咎 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5016.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5038.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
沒有把他們該做的事情做好導致到2024年的時候我們竟然要在國會裡面透過人事同意權的審查來一一的請教你們支不支持在公務人員保障法裡面制定反霸凌條款這早就該做的事啊邱老師您認不認同我的說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5039.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5067.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
我想這個發生霸凌的事件是令人心痛的那這個部分既然以前的考試委員有提出來我覺得應該要追蹤應該要追蹤嘛我希望您回去考試院以後好好的追蹤問一下我們考試院的同仁當初為什麼2021年開始2022年開始搞到現在2024年什麼事都沒有做這是我對您的第一點期許跟要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5068.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5097.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
接下來你贊不贊成公務員納入職業安全衛生法這個兩個可能是不太一樣的體系所以你贊不贊成我覺得有保障法公務員要有保障法您知不知道職業安全衛生法跟公務員保障法這兩套規範規範的密度差別有多大 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5100.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5123.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
我對於職業安全衛生法並不是那麼的清楚我期許喔 被提名人你有機會當考試委員花一點時間去瞭解兩件事情第一件事情是職業安全衛生法的規範密度為什麼比我們公務人員保障法高這麼多為什麼因為它有罰則第二個為什麼這麼多公務員的團體 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5128.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5157.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
我們基層的警消希望把它納入職業安全衛生法因為公務人員保障法裡面的保障就不足嘛完全不足嘛才有這麼強烈的聲音嘛但問題是什麼為我們一般的民眾出生入死的打火弟兄們當他們看到一個一個弟兄犧牲了他們自己寶貴的生命發出怒吼的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5158.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5164.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
我們的政府卻是無動於衷該做的事情一直都沒有做 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5166.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5191.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
好不容易在去年的時候當整個社會沸騰一場又一場的大火帶走了這麼多消防弟兄的生命他們本來要在凱道集結他們本來要在凱道抗議結果民進黨政府承諾他們我們會修法但是他們的期待又落空了一直到今年 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5194.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5211.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
這個會期我們的立法院沒有把他們納入職業安全衛生法我們把他納入消防法我們告訴這些打火的弟兄說我們在消防法裡面我們設置了一個專章 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5212.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5240.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
我們設置了消防人員安全衛生防護的專章為什麼要在消防法裡面設置安全衛生防護的專章就是因為等一下我們會討論到的事情是您另外一個任務就是因為現在公務人員保障體系的安慰辦法太糟糕了太糟糕了但是我們的政府又不願意把他們納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5242.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5270.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
職業安全衛生法裡面所以我們的政府承諾他們什麼承諾他們說我們在消防法裡面設了消防人員安全衛生防護的專章這件事情邱老師清楚嗎這個部分我必清楚那這個資訊可能要麻煩被提名人要再回去補足一下因為在整個公務人員保障法的體系裡面我們現在出現了雙軌 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5272.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5291.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
我為什麼說出現雙軌一般的公務人員是用安全衛生辦法但是我們對於消防弟兄我們給他希望能夠有更好的保護所以在消防法裡面設了消防人員安全衛生防護的專章 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5292.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5320.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
但是那個消防人員衛生防護的專章裡面他裡面所設置的什麼他裡面所設置的各種委員會他裡面所設置的防護小組追本溯源還是要回到公務人員保障法裡面那這個我必須要跟邱老師報告這些啦恐怕都是當一個考試委員要去掌握的基礎資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5322.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5351.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
警消的權益必須要好好保護警消的權益必須要好好保護我想整個社會都認同但我們大家不認同的是什麼我們大家不認同的是當現在的這個政府一再的欺騙一再的拖延我們要這些警消的同仁繼續冒險犯難犧牲生命到什麼時候我為什麼說一再的欺騙一再的拖延 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5352.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5381.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
您知道我們立法院在11月12號所修正的消防法我們的總統今天此時此刻今天公告了今天公告了消防法的修正條文但是被提名的你知道嗎我們剛剛所講的消防人員安全衛生防護的專章你知不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5382.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5408.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
開始施行了沒有我跟您報告我們消防人員安全衛生防護的專章我們的立法院當初希望給我們的行政機關方便我相信絕大多數的立委沒想到我們給他們方便他們當隨便 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5410.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5438.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
為什麼我說給他們方便他們當隨意便我這個禮拜我在立法院召開了公聽會這個公聽會的重點就是怎麼強化對於我們警察對於我們消防同仁的保障那場公聽會我直接請教消防署派來的代表說我們現在三讀修正通過也就是今天總統公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5439.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5465.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
要施行的消防法裡面的消防人員安全衛生防護專章當初立法院授權施行日期由行政院決定您知不知道他們決定施行日期什麼時候才要開始施行我跟邱老師說明五年以後五年以後邱老師您覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5467.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5489.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
這樣的行政院有負起他該負起的責任嗎我想這個施行日期的制定他可能行政機關會有他的考慮但是警消行政機關有他的考慮那我們第一線的消防弟兄勒警消的生命非常的重要所以我覺得這個部分應該要加速應該要加速我希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5492.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5512.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
你的聲音我們大家今天的聲音我們行政院院長卓榮泰都會聽到因為如果行政院院長卓榮泰不好好承諾我們立法院三讀通過的針對消防人員安全衛生的防護專章的條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5513.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5542.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
既然五年以後才要施行我們這些立法委員修這個消防法的立法委員恐怕都已經不在立法院了施行日期給他們定我們的行政院可以這樣幹我們的行政院可以這樣幹但為什麼這個跟考試院會有關係邱老師你一定或許心裡面會覺得有點納悶 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5544.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5572.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
我是要當考試委員我們的行政院消防法裡面針對於我們打火英雄安全衛生防護的專章他們目前的計畫要五年以後才施行跟你有什麼關係我跟你直接報告為什麼會跟你們有關係當這個專章在正式施行以前針對有關於消防人員的安全防護請問要適用什麼辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5575.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5598.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
公務人員保障法19條寫得非常抽象沒有辦法具體的落實沒有辦法具體的實踐也沒有定任何的罰則公務人員保障法19條如果有用的話我們今天沒有必要站在這邊討論這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5600.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5626.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
問題在哪裡在公務委員保障法下面所授權的定定的是公務人員安全及衛生防護辦法您知道這個辦法幾年沒有修了嗎十年沒有修了在過去這十年的時間當中啊台灣的公民社會各式各樣我們錦霄的同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5628.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5654.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
要求要修安全衛生防護辦法我第一次在立法院服務的時候2018年那時候發生了大火很多消防弟兄走了我們行政院人事總處我們考試院的保訓會在那一屆的國會承諾要求安慰辦法現在已經是2024年 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5656.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5678.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
從第9屆的國會到第11屆的國會安慰辦法一條都沒有修過掌管安慰辦法修訂的是哪一個機關邱老師知道嗎是哪一個機關掌管這個安慰辦法的修訂應該是群聚部吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5680.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5708.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
是保訓會沒有關係啊但是保訓會通過的安慰辦法最後還是要誰通過考試院院會嘛所以考試委員責任重大不是只有考試還有公務員的保障我們的考試院從2018年到2024年自己可以修的安慰辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5708.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5736.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
不需要透過立法院立法院早就授權了可以整整十年沒有修邱老師你可以接受嗎我想委員的關切如果有這個機會我會盡量協助考試院的同仁盡快把他的法律修訂好我希望你如果出任考試委員不是只有協助考試院的同仁恕我直言強力要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5738.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5765.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
強力要求考試院的怠惰過去這幾年所釀成的悲劇從安慰辦法下面的消防人員到公務人員保障法下面職場受霸凌的公務員這不是都是活生生血淋淋的例子嗎考試委員重不重要在現行的體制下他當然重要消極的不作為對社會所造成的創傷 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5769.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5791.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
決心斑斑的例子不都在我們眼前嗎是的我現在在給你機會展現決心我想這個委員的關心我不但是會帶回去如果有這個機會的話我也會盡我最大的力量來督促他們目前的安慰辦法最大的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5793.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5820.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
是完全沒有發責剛剛您在回答我的問題的時候我聽你說出來了代表你有用心有做基本的功課再下一個關鍵的問題我們的保訓會我們的考試院花了納稅人的錢找了台大的教授做了研究報告在2021年的時候就已經告訴我們考試院了 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5821.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5850.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
這個安慰辦法沒有罰則根本沒有用你贊不贊成修改公務人員保障法增訂罰則這個在我們院長的被提名人他有做出這個宣誓就是我們將來會盡快來提出保障法的這個修正案盡快多久我記得他承諾是下個會期就要提出來下個會期都要提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5851.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5879.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
所以如果你也進入考試院的話你會配合一起完成這個承諾是嗎我會盡力從2002年開始我們的國家的考機制度大概一直延續到現在甲等75%乙等大概25%丙等鳳毛麟角丁等非常罕見 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5880.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5906.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
整個大的picture是這個樣子針對現行的考機制度假等的人數比例不可以超過75%您覺得合理嗎這個有非常多的討論歷年來曾經也有調整過我知道相關的討論我都拜讀過了我沒有要考邱老師我直接問你的立場你認為合不合理我覺得這個部分是可以討論的 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5909.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5936.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
當然可以討論也討論了非常久我現在在請教你的立場你認為合不合理我還是覺得說這個部分是應該要大家有個共識因為很多的情況每個機關的這個負擔的程度其實不太一樣75%是不是過於僵化是不是在追求形式上面的公平這個是大家質疑的第一件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5937.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5963.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
但我要告訴邱老師跟您報告的是啊這已經不僅僅是不是只有形式公平的問題啊這可能造成了連形式上面的公平都做不到為什麼我這樣講來看一下我從2017年開始追蹤嘉義餅丁嘉義餅公務人考機的制度來看一下結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5964.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5990.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
檢任的家等以上超過95%建任的家等以上82%委任的最低階的公務員差不多才是到75%他出現了一個很清楚的圖像關接越高啊家等比例越高啊被提名的人覺得公平嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5992.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6020.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
很多這個評論都是提到說考機是不是只講高官所以我想這個部分其實是我們要仔細的去面對目前的考機制度跟我們的文官體系它可能存在兩個最大的問題一個是勞役不均一個是這樣的考機的結果我希望你有機會到考試院服務要大刀拓斧的改革可以嗎是好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6021.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6050.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
好謝謝黃委員謝謝被提名人下一位請蔡育宇委員詢問謝謝主席那是有請我們被提名人邱被提名人被提名人請答詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6054.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6054.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
蔡委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6056.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6084.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
邱委員、邱老師很高興可以在考試委員的審查會我相信可以就幾個議題可以跟邱老師來探討我們知道邱老師本身是工程背景工程背景事實上也會讓我們發現在基層普遍在反映的一件事情就是基層公務員工程背景的人留不住人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6086.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6103.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
這個留不住人才有蠻多因素的首先在任何機關不管是中央機關或是地方機關尤其越基層的機關在三級政府的鄉鎮公所幾乎是留不住包括土木包括工程類的人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6104.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6132.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
那這主要也是來自於說第一個他們的工作辛苦第二個他們本身在工作上附帶的風險高第三個如果這些人才他們到民間他們會有更好的待遇所以變成在於這些人留在公務系統替我們政府來做事的意願是不高的所以我想要請教邱老師你對這一塊未來你當考試委員後你會有怎樣的一個具體的主張嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6134.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6152.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
謝謝蔡委員我想這個工程類科的缺額其實是非常明顯的像去年的話大概缺了130幾位建築的話 我講的是土木建築的話大概是缺了11位所以缺額的情況是非常清楚的 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6152.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6178.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
但是由他的能不能留任跟他的大環境是有關係跟我們的大環境有關係外面的這個待遇施部門的待遇可能比公務員好一點所以這個是整個經濟環境的一個狀況那考試院這邊我看到相關的資料他們是希望說也可能從私人部門也能夠讓專機人員轉任公務員這是一個應急之道 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6179.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6206.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
但是另外一方面在考試方面是不是讓這個工程類科的人他將來在找工作的時候能夠切合這個用人機關的一個需求所以這個部分的溝通其實是非常重要我們準考試委員我想跟你分享一下因為我看到好多基層的這個工程界的第一個他們不想留在工程單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6207.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6224.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
他們在工程單位他們盡量會去爭取去調到非實際工程單位這是第一個我覺得比較麻煩的第二個就是說他們在公務員任職期間他們會盡量去考計師只要一旦他們有民間的計師的牌照他們就離開公務系統這個非常的 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6227.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6247.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
可惜啦 因為我覺得我們最近有這麼多的預算包括這幾年的前瞻預算以及公務預算我們在投資這些工件的一些計畫的時候基本上都是需要這些基層的公務員他們在第一線不管是在做工程的設計或者是事後工程的把關都是需要他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6248.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6263.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
那當然今年8月1號我看到行政院有公布一個命令就是針對工程人才無法留在公務系統他們有做幾個是用獎金包括要用專業家籍專業家籍說你實際從事公務我就每個月給你三千塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6264.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6291.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
包括說我給你留任獎金留任獎金就是分第一年、第三年、第五年那就給他三萬塊、四萬五跟六萬這年底給就是說他希望把他的配他的薪資待遇拉高然後來促使這些人是希望他留在公務但是我覺得這個火候還是不夠啊力道還是不夠因為我相信真正這些好的人才他在民間一定會有更好的待遇 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6291.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6304.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
所以這部分涉及到了整個這些優秀的人才而且他實際上從事公務我覺得最基本的還是待遇不足的問題那我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6305.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6323.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
就教一下我們被提名人就這樣你覺得好的人才到底要怎麼樣才讓他可以留在我們的公務系統呢我的確是看到一個很重要的議題現在在外面缺工的情況是非常嚴重那當然公司部門的待遇的相互競爭也是一個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6325.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6350.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
我看到像學校因為我過去在學校服務學校裡面有所謂的彈性薪資彈性薪資意思就是說我有一個專案的計畫我們可以把這個經費調整調整以後它就會超過了它現在的本質的經費這個薪資甚至有些薪資大學教授可能高過於部會所長 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6351.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6364.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
所以這種情況也是有的所以我的意思是說我非常贊同委員的看法在薪資結構方面的調整有沒有更大的一個彈性甚至運用一些專案計畫的一個經費來做這個挹注對 所以我是覺得這個檢討起來就專業人員我們不要讓他的專業讓他平庸化 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6375.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6394.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
這個專案值得多少政府應該要給他的薪水就應該要盡量拉高這是我一個主張我希望未來您當選考試委員後你也可以支持這些基層的工程人員可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6395.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6396.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
台灣考試院在教考訓用一條邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6409.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6431.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
一條邊的方式當然這個也是跟一條邊的方式就是由考試院來尋找人才以及做人才上如何去發配到各機關去這是一條邊的一個方式但是在於我們鄰近的國家日本跟韓國他不是用這樣的方式他是直接由選才機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6433.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6455.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
選才之官自己辦考試然後自己去面試他想要的人這樣是兩條不同的形式那我想要請教我們被提名人你對於這樣兩個形式基本上你認為我們現在的方法會優於日韓嗎還是日韓有它的優點 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6456.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6482.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
跟委員報告我們公務人員的體制文官受到保障或者是他的臨用其實是憲法的一個架構之下所以公務人員要進來的話他必須經過國家的考試但是國外確實是有很多的一些測驗的機構或者民間機構來做選擇甚至他考試的時候可能分階段第一個可能是基本考基本類科的考試 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6482.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6487.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
Iwan NawiIwan NawiIwan NawiIwan Nawi |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6508.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6518.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
被提名了你也不排斥說未來我們打破一條邊讓各機關可以他們自行去臨選不管是他們自行召辦考試、自行去面試、去找他們要來臨載 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6523.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6544.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
這一條選材方式你認為也不用去排斥就對了我覺得長期來看是可以來討論可以來考慮但是現在的情況就是說以公務人員的體系來或許跟用人機關之間有更密切的一個聯繫我覺得這個部分是可以在現在就可以來進行但是未來剛剛委員關心的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6545.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6573.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
是不是兩個軌道這個方式這是比較涉及到長期的一個制度性的問題所以我想我們我會把這個意見請教我們的考試院同仁來進行更縝密的一個研究好那再來就叫一個就是關於這個商調的因為現在很多機關事實上在公務員事實上常常遇到商調的時候要原機關同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6573.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6591.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
那很多公務員礙於沒有辦法取得原機關的同意他可能會做一件事他重新考因為我沒辦法調到其他的機關我重考我重考然後再想辦法分發到其他的一個機關那我認為說基本上 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6593.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6621.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
這樣的一個方式變得說他對於公務員的商調相對沒有彈性他就是卡在原機關同意甚至我們之前有在爭取就是說你公務員他有1到3歲的子女要養的時候我們盡量讓他擴大他的彈性可以到他以救養、撫養小孩子方便的地方來做他公務機關的一個任職但是還是原機關要同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6622.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6641.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
所以這個原機關同意這件事就造成了公務員他們流動的一個困難那我想要請教貝琴你上任後就這樣一個商調的現行的規定有可能來做你的主張來做一些修正或者是你的看法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6642.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6660.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
我想我這個部分會把委員的意見帶回去讓我們考試院來做一個討論特別是這個部分剛剛提到是非常實際的問題例如說有很多的育嬰假的他要請假或是他要上吊的時候他必須經過原機關同意但是原機關可能就沒辦法同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6661.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6685.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
這讓他就非常的困難只好另謀出路但是這個部分是牽涉到未來這個國內的人員這個資源人才庫怎麼樣建立一個比較完善的一個流用的一個制度或者是將來跟護調的一個方式我想這個涉及到整個人才庫的一個建立委員的這個關心我會把它帶回去 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6686.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6715.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
因為未來如果你當選後考試委員畢竟就是跟公務員就是要站在一起嘛所以未來也許你的立場會跟立法院不一樣可是我期待的考試委員應該要更站在公務人員的一個立場把公務人員的心聲把他帶出來那讓我們在未來我們立法院在立法的時候可以聽到你們替公務人員發聲然後我們來來修法修的也許讓他更有彈性或者是讓公務員更可以符合他們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6716.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6745.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
在任職的時候的一個比較好的一個福祉的環境還有我剛剛有講到的考試的一個問題公務員考試雖然公務員考試很多機關事實上還是有所謂的體能考試那我常常遇到遇到那種就是筆試過了結果就卡在這個體能的一個測試尤其是像在拉單槓或者是百米的跑步或者是立定跳遠 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6747.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6761.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
有時候就差一點點差一點點 變成他那一次的比試就沒了未來要再重考他就要把時間再繼續耗在他的準備考試上 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6762.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6787.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
那我覺得這件事也有它不合理的地方就是說既然我筆試已經過了那為什麼我這個筆試不能仿照像會計師他有做保留的幾年因為他是差在體試那結果就等於說他要把他的時間耗在準備考試身上對 所以我想要請教這部分我們被提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6789.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6808.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
在這部分我想這個考試資格的保留跟未來的像體能訓練的這個部分是不是可以有一個比較彈性的一個處理這其實是應該要討論的那我是覺得這個部分我會把這個意見帶回去讓我們同仁一起來研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6809.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6823.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
基本上呢如果我們回歸到憲法的規定這些憲法的規定就是公務人員政府不應該歧視任何的一個種族啊或者是一個人一個族群嘛所以在公平的這個倒也不是歧視這個是變成說 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6825.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6825.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
我講的意思就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6845.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6867.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
因為卡在體能這個因素造成他的筆試無效要等來年再來一次我覺得這件事情是有檢討的空間那我也希望說你不只是要把他帶回去而已你們應該考試委員嘛你們可以有你們的一個見解很多事情我知道要特別修緩不過本來這個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6871.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6896.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
現在五權分立的一個架構之下那考試委員我希望就是說可以聽取民意的考試委員可以接地氣的大家的意見你如果收集起來你覺得要怎麼去修法你們事實上還是有你們可以提出修法的建議嘛然後由我們立法院這邊看大家就修法這邊來交換意見我希望考試委員可以多一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6897.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6916.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
主張認為說應該哪部分要調整那就應該要替這些公務員來做主張以及這些參加考試的人我想這個在未來的考試規則裡面我們再仔細的去思考有沒有其他比較彈性的一個做法或者是說比較合理的一個處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6919.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6942.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
最後我想請教貝提銘人因為貝提銘人你的自傳裡面你也強調說國家考試為國舉財那事實上你的專業是在海洋領域這一塊那你在海洋領域裡面有很多的一些你的主張跟見解那看起來現在台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6947.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6973.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
賴清德在520就職的演說有確認三個國家方向其中一個就是探索海洋就是要把台灣是一個海洋國家我們台灣的人民是海洋的公民擁有海洋文化的DNA那所以如何讓台灣跟海洋是親近的那尤其未來我們知道包括在於這一個探會裡面其中燃炭的部分就是在強調這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6975.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6989.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
海洋要怎麼樣 未來造就了這些碳匯的價值或者是我們台灣因為過去海禁 我們跟海的距離太遠那未來我們要怎麼親近海洋 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6990.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7010.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
那這部分是不是有辦法從公務體系公務人員的一個訓練開始讓這個公務體系是可以更親近海洋的我想請教一下被提名人你有怎樣的報復讓你的對於台灣要親近海洋這個主張可以在你任職考試委員的時候讓他有更有發揮嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7013.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7031.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
我以澳洲的海洋政策白皮書提出三個願景一個叫做Understanding前面叫做CaringUnderstanding Use Advisory就是我們關心海洋 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7032.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7056.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
但是我們也要了解海洋然後再來是永續的利用海洋所以這個部分臺灣有那麼多的海洋資源而且我們是以海為生的一個國家包括我們的漁業、遠洋漁業、貿易包括我們的航運等等其實還包括我們現在談到這個近年碳排的時候燃炭的一個部分到底怎麼處理我覺得這個教育非常重要當然這裡面不是說每一個部位都各出各的 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7057.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7083.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
所以現在正在修訂的這個叫做國家海洋政策白皮書它就是一個統整的一個方向希望各個部會都能一起來做不管是科研的、我們的產業的發展還有包括我們的這個將來的資源的一個分配那最重要的就是環境的教育、海洋的教育所以我想這個部分應該可以來大力的來推動那當然很重要就是說親海愛海 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7084.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7110.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
你必須要讓民眾接見海洋所以海岸的安全性它相關的設施它的相關的教育甚至跟地方上社區、學校、大學的結合這一點就非常的重要所以我想如果從這個方面一方面讓我們民眾來瞭解海洋、探索海洋但是更重要就是說我們追求我們相關的一些發展的機會讓國家能夠更為富強 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7111.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7137.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
那被提名有可能把海洋領域的一些專業知識．或者是一些對海洋的瞭解．有可能未來成為考試的命題嗎這個在海洋行政類科裡面．它又分為幾個考試的科目．那事實上我看過他們過去的這些考題．都有這方面的知識．包括海洋科學基礎的東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7138.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7166.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
海洋科普的東西海洋政策的東西都有在這裡面所以我想以後應該考試院這邊會繼續加強這個部分就我還想跟北京朋友們分享以我的看法現在的公務人員對於海洋基本上還是保守甚至抗拒當然有例外就是海巡可能他們就親近海了嘛海委會當然他們就是以海為主但是我跟你分享的就是說你知道像農業部 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7168.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7192.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
同業部好幾千億的預算那其中關於漁業署多少預算你知道嗎我直接跟你說因為這個就100億而已三四千億的預算漁業署只有100億那這是為什麼就是因為不重視少了關心我相信署長你對海洋這麼認識你覺得台灣有幾個漁港是會看一看 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7197.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7219.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
我們去台灣看每一個國家市長漁港漁港就是這個都市發展就是大概從港區開始往內陸發展結果台灣不一樣台灣是越走到港越破敗人口越老化越凋零然後那裡都沒有整修甚至你說我們的漁港有郵載可能一定一個郵載是十幾年前的事情後來就不用郵載過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7222.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7241.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
所以現在那些漁港都充滿著這個被海浪衝擊然後造成的那些污漬都在那個牆壁上然後也沒有去整理我覺得這一個依北京沒有你對海洋的瞭解我們對於沿海地區的漁港它就是長這個樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7242.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7267.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
那這是為什麼呢就是公務員他的本質心態並沒有覺得漁港的一個美麗才是代表台灣這個海洋國家的一個美的一個開始沒有這樣的心態我覺得很可惜好謝謝蔡委員謝謝邱備提名人接下來請楊瓊英委員詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7282.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7291.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
謝謝院會主席、江副院長、被提名者以及新聞界的朋友、各位同仁、楊瓊瑜發言首先邀請提名者請求被提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7300.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7315.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
首先我們來針對於職場霸凌的防治機制我們來做討論因為你也是在環保方面海洋方面非常的專精那同時也擔任過我們的部分區的這個立委 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7315.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7331.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
所以在民意跟專業領域當面都有加成的作用但是你現在是被提名為考試委員所以也針對於在職場霸凌的這個部分我認為必須要首一的課題來跟你一起討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7333.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7355.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
所以你認為現行的公務體系是不是它能夠有效的來防止職場霸凌在目前的機制那麼未來你認為還有什麼樣的建言什麼樣的相關規範可以來協助讓這個職場能夠更加的友善更加的安全那同時 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7356.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7356.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
請做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7370.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7386.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
謝謝委員隨選我想這個發生霸凌事件那顯然就是我們的機制有所不足這是令人心痛的一件事情但是以考試院來說當然我們有公務人員的保障法 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7386.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7387.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
主席主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7403.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7407.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
Iwan Nawi、Iwan Nawi、Iwan Nawi |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7427.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7428.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
Iwan Nawi |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7451.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7473.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
讓職場的人員有所安全感尤其在公職方面所以你也誠懇地回答出是有改善跟討論的一個空間我們也希望也就是如果設置一個獨立的申訴機制你認為有沒有這個必要性 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7475.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7496.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
這個獨立的機制事實上依照我們現在的現行機制比如說我們這個保障法裡面我們可以透過一個程序比如說附審、申訴、代申訴但是在體制內或者體制外是不是還要一個考量我想今天應該是戴總統也有提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7497.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7525.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
就是將來是不是在院級有一個專責的通報系統類似這個當然這個部分還是一個初步的構想我想我們還是需要來討論一下看看用什麼樣的方式避免所謂的關關相互或者是他的下情不能上達的情況所以我想這個制度的建立需要更審慎一點但是就應了您剛剛所說的也就是避免關關相互 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7526.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7527.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
我希望能夠好好地去探討 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7554.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7581.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
這個制度怎麼樣讓它更完整那你應該認同這樣的一個方向吧認同因為國內的其實各機關的這個機能能夠發揮充分發揮是非常重要全國有將近7000個行政機關有這麼多的機關這個部分其實是應該各自扮演好的角色但是那個總體的機制怎麼樣建立這是大家應該共同思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7581.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7608.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
7000多個機關的確必須要好好的去整治那尤其最近沸沸揚揚這些事件我想這不是一個有違的政府民主政治裡頭政府應該會有產生這樣的現象這是不應當的而且是全民撻伐的所以我們既然有這個共識我們繼續來討論也就是針對在基層的公務人員的特別保護在基層的這一環 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7610.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7626.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
因為基層人員他因為職位相對的一個弱勢那他很容易去成為職場的被霸凌的這個受害者在這樣的情況之下你認為在保護基層人員方面也是不是應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7627.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7648.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
要讓他有怎麼樣申訴的管道讓他有可以敢講出來而且沒有關關相護而且沒有基上瞞下的這個情況是不是應該要設置特別的這個措施來針對於基層的公務人員這些比較相對弱勢者請做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7652.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7670.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
過去行政院也有希望各個機關訂定員工協助方案包括心理諮商、意見抒發等等事實上我們辦法好像是蠻多的方案也有所以這個到底績效如何我覺得這應該是要做一個重體的檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7675.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7690.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
至於說過去考試院這邊訂定公務人員的安全保衛生防護辦法基本上它是比較因為過去訂定的時候考量的問題可能比較單純一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7692.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7692.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7720.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7746.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
學生在學校有授課權那最重要的不只是只有知識﹑而且要保護他們的身心健康這一點非常的重要那所以因此在我們整個公務人員的基層這個最基層的公教的這一塊本身也希望能夠好好的去琢磨讓他們不是成為是弱勢者不是成為最容易被霸凌者我們應該好好的保護他們讓他發揮所長 對不對是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7748.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7751.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
超越黨派的具體實踐考試委員的職責應該要超越黨派 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7763.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7782.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
在你行使這個職權當中,你要怎麼樣維持中立,避免政黨的影響?你是不是有什麼樣的具體思維跟做法?我想任何一個公務員要維持這個中立 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7782.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7812.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
那麼因為公務人員有個這個叫做行政中立法所以它裡面有相當多的規定跟這個政黨之間的互動關係應該是保持上什麼樣的分際這裡面有相當的規範所以我想一般來談就是對於這個行政中立法的這個落實這個遵守其實非常重要但另外一方面以個人來講我沒有什麼太明顯的什麼政治色彩 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7813.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7840.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
因為我覺得我們學海洋的人你看到海洋有藍有綠其實是跟你的水的深度、地形、光線的擇色有關係但是你把海水撈起來是沒有顏色的所以我一向秉持的觀念就是國家的事務其實是大家的事務不應該有任何黨派的思維但是黨派的政黨的一個想法可能有他的理想我們應該要尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7842.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7871.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
這個回答是平穩的回答但是我們的社會面向覺得歪樓的還是有所以本席會特別提出雖然我們有行政中立法但是重點是在能不能落實之所以本席也希望就誠如你所說的這個考試委員是要超越黨派為國家做事所以本席要跟你討論一個實質上的問題您接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7872.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7895.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
提名的理由是什麼呢因為也有人質疑你在黨內你現在還是國民黨的身份吧在黨內並沒有依照黨章就是事先的來報備但是你的提名似乎是跟你自己的學術專業背景或者是你的個人價值觀是不是有更深 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7899.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7924.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
本席願意讓你說明你接受提名的關鍵考量是什麼呢關鍵考量就是希望因為我曾經在政府機關服務過也在立法機關服務過我認為我們從事公職應該就是要超脫黨派為全國民眾服務但是這個事情的申請或者是辦理其實我是依照 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7926.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7946.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
總統府秘書長在3月5日他行文給全國150所的大學院校他提出來希望是廣徵各方的人才所以我非常單純的就是從這個管道當時我並不清楚說有什麼政黨推薦的要經過這個黨章的規定我完全不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7947.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7973.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
我的理想非常的簡單就是依照憲法88條的規定超脫黨派之外獨立行使職權所以這個部分完全沒有想過怎麼樣去要通過黨的規定或者是說他的推薦但是在我離開因為記者會一結束我立刻聯絡了黃建廷秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7976.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7989.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
我作為一個黨員我當然碰到這事情一定要向黨中央報告所以我在第一時間1點鐘的時候我就跟他聯繫3點鐘的時候獲得他的回答要我在 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7990.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7994.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
Iwan Nawi為考試院第十四屆院長．許舒翔為考試院第十四屆院長．許舒翔為考試院第十四屆院長． |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8014.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8034.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
我從小就是從年輕就是做一個公務人員我也知道有一些經驗我能不能把這個經驗傳承甚至能夠協助政府的制度建立讓我們的文官制度能夠獲得更好的鞏固甚至保障我們的公務人員的權益基本上是想得非常單純 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8036.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8059.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
這麼多時間願意讓你說明也就是外面的質疑當然你現在的回答是說因為你不知道有這些黨章的規定所以你也不是不禮貌本席可以如此解讀嗎是那所以呢本席還是要再請教您接受提名的關鍵考量除了你剛剛說的從3月份開始這個徵詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8064.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8070.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
一直到最後你決定接受最重要的關鍵考量到底是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8071.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8095.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
事實上這個整個審見的作業是到最後的時候我們才知道因為我們都不清楚這個過程當中到底你有沒有被提名所以直到他真正公佈的時候我才知道還有其他人哪些人所以這些的委員我還是提名因為公佈之後你就知道你有沒有被提名所以本席要請教當你 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8095.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8117.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
公布要被提名了那你同意或者不同意的時候你的關鍵選擇了同意那你的最關鍵的考量到底是什麼最關鍵的考量還是希望說我們在海洋跟環境方面的領域能夠繼續進行下去來做進一步的人才的培育比如說海洋跟什麼呢海洋跟環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8117.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8137.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
海洋跟環境就你的本專專業的部分因為我發現在這個部分比如說委員非常關心像永續發展的部分像國土計畫那比如說未來的這個都市計畫基石、估價石還有這個地震室是不是在這個部分它在國土計畫上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8138.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8143.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
Iwan Nawi主席Iwan Nawi主席Iwan Nawi主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8167.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8194.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
因為現在的考試委員只有7個人所以其實是領域就缺了我們這個部分我們一直聲稱我們是一個海洋的國家是一個環保的立國或是立憲的這個理念就像委員對這個中火的這個關心等等都是環境問題非常的重要但是要有人幫他去思考讓到我們的人才的培育選拔的時候能夠真正適合台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8195.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8195.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
國土計劃法 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8211.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8211.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
Iwan Nawi |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8229.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8248.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
希望他公告的時間是到明年的4月份要執行本席也提案希望能夠延後兩年就是在整個相關的配套必須要完整才上路讓我們所有的基層大家都能夠安心這是目前的氛圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8248.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8266.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
我相信你剛才提到這個也看到目前社會的面向的一個需求所以本縣希望能夠提供真正有所改革有所需求去結合社會的需要以及達到國家最高的利益這是非常重要的一環 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8270.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8283.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
在我們考試院在政府的體系當中我們這些的職長跟功能那對於考試院在政府體系的功能大家似乎現在覺得說那你考試院到底在做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8285.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8299.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
甚至還有說考試院到底要廢不廢還有這個聲音出來當一個機關如果被討論到純廢的問題那這個政府是真的要大大的改革大大的檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8300.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8315.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
所以在這樣的情況之下本席要請教我們考試院的功能建議因為現在已經有提到存廢問題考試院的功能建議就你的看法你有什麼樣的建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8318.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8341.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
考試院是最重要的一個憲政機關也就是當時是依照我們孫中山先生的一個理想提出來所以當時會把考試院單獨拉出來是希望不要私自用人變成濫用人才濫用自己的人才是希望達到公平正義的一個角度才會有五院的這個想法特別是考試院獨立出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8342.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8365.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
當然現在有些的業務比如說人事行政總署等等它也有負擔一部分的訓練在職訓練的一個部分但是我們還是認為說在現在的體制之下現在的憲政體制之下除非是修憲修憲當然我們就到最後看社會的共識跟國會的一個決定對你本身的看法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8366.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8381.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
我本身的看法我是認為說不管將來的這個考試院他是併不併或者是廢不廢其實非常重要的我們看國外的一個例子就是人事人才的這個選拔必須具有獨立性 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8382.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8411.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
要不要獨立選否則的話就是濫用私人那我覺得這個部分還是要當然另外一方面我們人才的選拔必須要有品質所以這個合格的一個人員到底怎麼領選考試的辦法是怎麼樣也有跟用人機關之間的關係又是怎麼樣這些都是要通盤的考慮所以我對廢不廢的考試院我其實我完全尊重國會的這個決定假設最後是完全尊重什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8412.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8428.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
國會最後的這個決定因為這涉及到修憲但是我基本上我還是認為說考試院還是要盡可能維持他的人事權的獨立還好你最後補上這一句話不然真的會讓我嚇一跳 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8429.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8452.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
因為你今天是被提名的考試委員那麼對於我們整個人才的一個培訓全世界最重要的也就是人才的培訓這是無上的一個資產所以我們仍舊希望讓我們我們台灣人每一位都是非常的有能力而且以往考上了公家可以說是整個正在籌碼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8453.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8476.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
是整個家族之光啊但是我真就非常的希望一個有為的政府如果人民是信賴公務人員這個國家才能夠成長但是現在的氛圍不盡然所以我非常的希望讓我們的公務人員恢復我們的榮耀恢復我們友善的職場讓他們能夠盡情的揮灑盡情的去發揮這個國家才能夠成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8481.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8500.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
你認同這樣的看法嗎完全認同所以我非常的希望如果有機會你正式成為考試委員那你應該要從這方面來去琢磨這個是最基本必須要做的是加油謝謝委員指教好謝謝謝謝梁委員謝謝邱備提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8501.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8519.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
報告全院委員會對考試委員被提名人邱文彥答詢部分到此為止謝謝邱被提名人文彥列席答詢現在休息十分鐘休息之後繼續進行對考試委員被提名人鄧家基之詢問現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
9167.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
9194.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
報告全院委員會現在繼續開會進行審查考試委員被提名人鄧家基之資格及是否私人相關事項現在請被提名人鄧家基先生說明時間為10分鐘主席各位委員各位女士各位先生 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
9195.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
9206.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
本人鄧家基非常榮幸列席大院．並向主席及各位委員口頭報告．提出個人簡歷及相關觀點．敬請指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
9207.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
9233.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
回顧過往服務公職一直是個人職涯的首選畢業後高考及格先後在台北市、台北縣、新北市再回到台北市政府工作具備基層公務員的執行經驗也有遇十年的機關首長及副市長的領導管理歷練有幸在同才奴隸、同心合作下均能不辱使命另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
9235.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
9252.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
兩屆臺北市議員八年為民服務監督的工作．豐豐火火的創造諸多市政改革的成績．應該是急功耗益、耗管閒事的個性所致．其間兩度受邀到學校教書與青年學子互動． |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
9256.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
9268.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
過去服務公職及臺北市議會近25年長期與公務人員共事相處深感公務人員的重要性沒有公務人員的奉獻就沒有國家光明的前景 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
9269.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9290.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
公務人員是國家發展的基石也深感公務人員及需要國家的照顧、培育、激勵、保障公務員就像一個部隊需要有好的領導統一、創造戰力、創造效率更期待合理的管教養慰 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9291.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9319.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
若缺少高昂士氣、公平的升遷．合理的待遇福利．絕對的尊嚴保障．焉能期待國家優秀公務人力的展現依據憲法．考試院為國家最高考試機關．憲法增修條文第6條規定．考試院掌理考試．公務人員的權序、保障．撫恤、退休．及公務人員任免、考機及奉升遷．包講之法治事項． |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9320.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9345.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
準此考試院的關鍵職責因為維護考試權的獨立、公平與公正另外考試院為公部門人事法制的最高獨立主管機關舉凡為國家選拔優秀人才、健全文官體制、激勵公務員士氣提升政府競爭力都是考試院的重責大任雖然考試院的存廢 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9346.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9368.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
一直是一個焦點然公務員的考試任用獨立舉辦避免行政機關用人不公不宜輕易放棄且為其獨立性是以保持考選機構組織的最高層級性至於考試任用之外的權序、保障、訓練等人事制度事項的全責歸屬 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9369.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9389.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
均涉及人事主管機關類型採用部外制、部內制或混合制的探討當可回應民意、檢討心格然其激勵公務員聯結致詞、積極創新避免首長特權用人及干預的目標不可廢死 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9390.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9414.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
忠尚改革之前守護文官系統．考試院仍應受大任．善待公務人員．焉能不成為國家公務員希望的寄託．既此考全訓用制度．要照顧好公務員．讓考試院成為國家公務員的希望．其實不難．只要重視公務員的心聲與期待．認真考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9415.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9438.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
諸如基層公務員抱怨最多的考機制度若堅持75%甲等上限會打擊士氣如果能夠勇敢取消上限但配套建立考機甲等的標準明確條例、獎優罰列、核實發給縱使百分之百核實甲等也符合現代人力資本的投資觀念 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9440.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9456.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
也能夠創造人力的運用與發展的潛力．否則褒貶之文無核實、懲勸之道缺矣另外現今文官體系主管調非主管．已屬常態、任意、公務員的潛意． |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9457.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9471.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
以尊重蕩然無存其中若機關人事單位疏縱除將助長公務員無端受害外也會造成文官體系的官風變相選舉靠邊站扭曲了文官體系再者 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9472.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9494.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
中央與地方機關職務劣等的差異．也造成地方人才窘困．同工不同酬．政府始終忽視．鴕鳥整齊、化解問題．雖然縣市升格困難．但官等升格容易．何必再以種種的理由來拖延．此外文官升遷、制度僵化． |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9495.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9511.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
以目前爬格子的模式高考及格從初任到檢任官最快需要十年非以不限年資破格拔卓的方式無法激勵特殊優秀人才研議破格拔卓制度已刻不容緩 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9512.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9533.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
最後在AI變革的時代到來如何確保公務員不被淘汰並能充分利用AI技術提升工作效率和創造價值公務員的培訓與激勵此時特別重要考試院的考全訓用都得及早籌劃以深化文官及政府的能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9535.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9549.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
照顧公務員確實不難考試院能否成為公務員的希望也在一念之間國家維護公務員的尊嚴社會常會長治久安至於考試院改革共識需要相應的配套 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9550.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9572.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
目前考試院職權已大幅限縮．並無權限對各機關執行任免、考機等業務．只有監督職權．除繼續掌管考試及公務人員的權序保障．退輔、退休外．有關公務人員的任免、考機及奉升遷、褒獎．則改為只負責法治事項．實際業務則由行政院人事總處執行． |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9576.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9594.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
因此無論未來憲政架構如何設計既有的功能仍需要穩定運作並持續精進在修憲之前新的考試院團隊有責任優先推動業務的改革並與行政院充分合作精進考全保訓 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9595.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9622.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
與基金治理的業務讓考試院的業務推動能更符合現代政府的需求未來人事任用權與考選權是否統一由單一個機關來執掌首重考量在建構維護優秀獨立的特性文官體制也必須杜絕政治紛張特權用人跟行政首長不當干預的負面因素 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9623.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9648.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
並希望能藉強化功能跟提升效率若人事行政權要集中則已與由各行政部門平行運作的獨立機關來執掌以避免諸多的不當干預當然修憲廢除考試院的轉型過渡期對於國家各種考試以及公務人員的權益保障等相關業務仍需要整體團隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9650.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9676.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
來持續的執行與推動．以落實考試院憲法機關無可旁貸的職責．也就是在修憲之前努力工作．在修憲之後絕對的尊重、貫徹、落實．如此在相關單位充分合作之下．應可避免改革半套．更可藉由考試院的奮力不懈展現勇於負責．達成憲政機關階段性的法定任務 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9677.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9702.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
另外藉這個機會跟大會主席及各位委員補充報告關於被提名人資格、學識豐富有特殊著作或發明者部分在審見過程本人提供完整資料包括一、著作原件有博士碩士論文各一份二、期刊及研討會論文有英文SCI期刊論文五篇 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9703.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9731.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
研討會中文論文八篇、三專書兩份、四特殊著作三份、五專歷證書一份其中有關專門著作總統府提名省建小組幕僚單位去參照法官法施行細則第五條第四項指的是曾經發表而且目前有實體本可知查證的中英文著作包括專書、期刊、研討會論文的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9733.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9751.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
目瞭單位經審視以後交呈審見小組審見通過完全符合考試院組織法第4條第1項第3款的規定考試委員應具有學識豐富有特殊著作或發明的資格規定以上報告敬請指教支持謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9759.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9782.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
謝謝鄧被提名人之說明現在進行委員詢問每位委員詢答時間20分鐘採疑問疑答方式進行輪到詢問委員如不在場視為棄權報告全院委員會陳委員秀寶之詢問以書面提出列入紀錄刊登公報現在請楊委員求您詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9791.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9803.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
謝謝院會主席、江副院長、各位同仁、新會見的朋友、我們的提名人首先來邀請鄧提名人請鄧備提名人答詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9813.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9835.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
剛才你在短短的十分鐘當中 鏗鏘有力的介紹自己本席聽了有幾個文字 覺得非常的有興趣第一個興趣是說你說你非常的好管閒事 也因為你的經歷所以你也提供了很多市政的改革 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9837.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9853.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
最重要的你提到在整個文官體制上面絕對不要做政治分張同時你也提出了單一的一個考機制度這一點是在你的 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9854.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9880.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
這個說明當中非常重要的論點那在論述當中你更提出了目前考試院的執掌似乎只有監督那麼同時在整個人事總書方面不管是任免不管是整個考機不管是這個退服那似乎我們的考試院在目前的執行當中依照你的論述似乎他是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9881.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9896.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
沒有牙齒的老虎所以這些論述引起大家認為一個公務人員是國家最重要的基礎也是基石這也是你提出的一個論點所以本期首先要來請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9898.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9924.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
在專業背景跟跨領域的這個合作你在土木工程以及環境保護方面非常的有專業的一個背景那同時你也擔任過很多的地方政府的一個職務那所以本期要請教不管在民意不管在行政方面你在基層上面都有很深的一個歷練那所以你未來將要如何將這些經驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9926.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9952.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
來轉化為對考試院具體的貢獻特別是如何的運用你的專業領域專業知識來推動考試院的制度請做說明是 謝謝委員指教這個過去在公務人員的這個工作裡面我感受也很深我原來是高考及格以後直接分派在臺北市政府當基層公務人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9953.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9980.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
那當時的感受就是經常在議會有理說不清但是陰錯陽差幾年以後我又擔任了市議員所以我當時又立下一個心願就是說一定要讓公務人員把話能夠講清楚那議員民意代表我們在質詢台上只對事不能夠對人因為我深感國家公務人員人才的培養不易 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9981.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
10006.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
要經過很長的時間他才有機會當到地方政府的科長到民意代表這是我第一個體驗第二個就是說在整個剛才您提到的文官制度確實是國家發展的基石但是我們除了有現有的不管是考試院或者是人事行政總署建構的文官體制的相關的權益規範保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
10007.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
10024.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
但是我總是感覺公務人員國家應該要更進一步的幫他發聲所以我也希望未來如果有機會我們能夠帶動這樣子就是說有事情國家幫你扛當公務員就像您之前講的他是個榮耀他也是個責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
10025.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
10050.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
但是公務員能夠有榮耀要責任是要社會給他尤其是國家那考試院將來如果有機會的話在這些方面我覺得我可以貢獻分享我的這樣的一個想法把整個考試院對維護文官體制從過去的比較被動的部分能夠更主動的能夠保護文官為文官的發聲當然整個體制的建立我們更是要來做檢討是 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
10051.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
10075.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
謝謝你非常誠懇的回答也將你的經驗也跟經歷融入在我們的這個詢答當中因為本席也從民意代表的歷練一直也到臺中市政府擔任了358天的副市長再回到立法院我同樣有這樣子的一個感同身受也就是在整個公務人員當中他的管 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
10075.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
10101.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
教養以及他的士氣尤其這個士氣非常的重要就像現在我們臺中隊在盧秀燕市長所領軍所有的公務人員大家士氣非常的元氣滿滿這個關鍵點在哪裡呢也就是我們的公務人員他有他的榮耀而且他很願意將他的才能去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
10102.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
10118.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
一個非常好的一個發揮這個就是我從民意代表一直到這個行政官再回到立法院來非常深的一個感受所以因此你剛才也說到了公務人員你要怎麼樣讓他有榮耀感就正如你剛才所說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
10120.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
10143.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
從爬格子開始你一個階段必須十年你要怎麼樣讓他能夠有榮耀當然你剛才也提到除非又破格但是不可能每一個人都破格啊那這怎麼辦呢所以在整個機制裡頭我們到底要怎麼樣去調整與時精進如果依照目前為止的這個等於這個制度來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
10147.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
10176.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
或許是20年、30年、40年前、50年當時的一個社會氛圍的一個多元絕對沒有現在的多元所以目前的制度我本席認為是不足以滿足所以才能夠才會說社會有很多人面向歪樓了對於我們的公務人員坦白講還有很多的不滿意但是公務人員這麼辛苦所以雙方在各自 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
10177.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
10203.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
都非常矛盾的這個氛圍下那怎麼能夠發揮最高的效能呢所以我歡喜剛剛聽到你的不管是爬格子方面要怎麼樣激勵人才我願意再聽聽你未來成為考試委員的時候針對於激勵人才因為現在全世界都在搶人才針對於激勵人才的部分你有什麼具體的建議呢是 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
10204.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
10230.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
在過去的經驗到現在的壓力我最近也看到很多考試院提供的資料我就深感現在的公務人員不管是大家關心的高補考、錄取、不足額尤其是這個工程技術類他其實就是在跟師部門競爭人才講得清楚就是我們的招募人才的條件不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
10230.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
10257.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
可是文官體系人事行政他受了很多法規的限制我們講得很好對公務人員他的權益有保障但是他就是限制他沒有辦法跟著時代演變今天我們要招募人才沒有辦法跟私部門來做競爭我過去有一份經驗也跟委員報告就是我們公務員都很滿足我們的薪水但是我曾經到銀行工作過 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
10258.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
10283.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
突然發現銀行的薪水是我們公務員一輩子的薪水他一年就是我們一輩子為什麼他的薪資跟風險是回報的是等值回報的公務員做的再多所以才會有人說他多做多錯你這麼的說法就像郭部長說的他第一次領到經濟部部長的薪資他竟然很嘩然的說是不是少一顆零是謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
10286.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10304.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
我還有一個感想就是說公務人員除了給他激勵之外在第一線最重要的就是在我們公務人員的相關的法規裡面對現在的首長除了給他權力應該克與他責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10304.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10333.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
也就是說這也是首長的成就感你怎麼把你的同仁跟部隊一樣帶著能夠對上陣殺敵能夠為國家社會來貢獻這個首長非常非常重要所以我覺得未來如果有機會我也希望能夠分享這樣的一個經驗就是說把首長他有的權力之外他應該賦予的帶動士氣給公務員的激勵他的獎勵要公平他的該有的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10334.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10363.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
我覺得這個也是可能我們在過去比較消極的這樣的規範之外能夠採得更積極就是說讓主管讓首長能夠有他這方面的一個能力的展現但是我們社會也會給他一個要求這就是在消極目前你認為我們目前執行當中似乎士氣元氣是不足的情況之下希望由消極的層面來提升到積極換句話說必須要有權力但是也絕對要有責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10363.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10363.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10382.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10412.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
在地方政府的時候你對於環保的政策的一個推動你是非常的加油所以在這種情況之下你認為在文官的培訓當中加入了環保保護因為這是全世界大家非常重視的一個議題加入環保保護讓可以永續持續的發展的這些課程你認為有沒有必要加入在整個文官的培訓中心裡頭的課程請做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10413.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10439.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
公務員除了人才招募之外大家都認為說後續的在職的專業能力或者是說能夠與時俱進的一些觀念要能夠與時俱進來提供給他這些方面的培訓所以您剛才提到就是說如果有機會的話我會建議考試院相關的機關尤其是保訓單位把剛才的這樣的一個環保的概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10440.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10446.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
他是一個不管是城市也好國家也好他會是一個上位的指導的一個原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10447.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10470.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
各位指導的原則這個非常重要我們也希望能夠來加入那同時呢你剛才提出在智能AI智慧的這個部分要怎麼樣讓我們的公務體系它能夠提升這個效能以及達到它的公平性這兩點是非常的持平的一個方針你認為呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10471.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10494.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
就是說AI的應用在公務機關也不能夠自費武功就是能夠與時俱進但是現在的公務人員在傳統的培訓系統裡面他能不能夠及時的針對數位轉型或未來AI的應用來做熟悉我覺得這個對機關來講尤其是行政首長的重視是非常重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10494.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10514.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
所以在整體的政府團隊如果有組織的去推動的話那麼公務人員他不會被淘汰因為能力不足反而他會發現說你善用數位治理AI的這些程式的應用的時候可以提升自己在服務上的一個功能也減少人為可能發生的錯誤所以我曾經在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10516.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10541.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
設想的過程裡面也想到如果有機會將來如果能夠參與考試院的業務對AI的應用也許將來我們國家的考選在AI的這樣的一個測試它也會是一種可以選擇的方式尤其針對未來年輕世代能夠投入公部門接受這一關的考驗的時候也許他接受AI的測驗的時候也不見得會比比試差 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10542.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10562.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
這一點是現在非常重要的關鍵時刻就成都公共工程委員會現在零信用的這個制度一邊在走那麼同時傳統的也在走所以在這個時間是最佳的關鍵時刻所以這一點也務必要去加入而且去提升這是我們社會大眾所 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10563.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10590.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
我希望的也就是提升整個公務人員的效能這個是非常重要我還是要請教因為這一次你是經過民眾黨的推薦這個本席要請教因為考試委員他是一個中立的專業機構那面對因為在這一次提名也有國民黨籍也有民眾黨籍也有其他政黨都有所以在這樣的一個政黨背景 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10591.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10607.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
事務外界也仍舊有點質疑會不會有行政不中立的這個情況所以本席要請教你要怎麼樣維持在考試院的中立並且去建構超越政黨分歧的一個公信力 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10608.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10623.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
謝謝委員指教就是說我個人也很榮幸能夠獲得民眾黨何主席的推薦那麼當時我唯一的想法就是說怎麼樣把現在的因為年紀漸漸的增長 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10625.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10650.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
把自己過去的經驗能夠奉獻到國家社會如果有這個機會我個人一定會非常非常的認真努力那麼在這種狀況下面跟委員報告就是說奉獻國家社會也是我們唯一的一個想法那麼未來如果有機會的話絕對會遵照現在考試委員的這樣的一個超出黨派依據法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10650.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10668.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
獨立行使職權只要是為國家社會好為文官體系好都是我們該做的而不是為了政黨為了個人非常謝謝你誠懇的回答那麼所以本席就繼續我們實時討論也就是你在地方的經驗對於中央的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10669.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10689.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
我相信在整個建議跟實際行動的改革一定會有更加的貼切因為你來自地方所以你曾經擔任了臺北市的副市長跟新北市的環保局長這些的地方職務都能夠讓你有很多的地方治理的經驗那你要如何運用你這些經歷經驗你的專業 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10692.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10713.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
來應用在考試院特別是在整個提升我們地方的公務人員的素質方面請做說明我跟委員報告就是說在基層公務人員的時候我曾經聽到一位我的長官也是在中央部會當首長後來到臺北市工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10714.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10722.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
他講中央跟地方最大的差別就是他在中央當部長的時候他老認為說這個地方怎麼都不配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10723.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10751.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
制定的政策可是今天他來到市政府的時候他就說這個中央制定的政策為什麼老是不時人間煙火我想這是一個非常好的一個警惕如果將來有機會我們在考試院從文官體制從考選人才方面我們都應該多聽地方政府的一個想法我們現在講說考用要合一最主要就是國家考試統一分發他就沒有辦法完全兼顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10752.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10781.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
用人機關的需求所以這學界講它是一個雙盲的選配就你發出去的人是沒有選擇所以我說像這些部分現在各界的建議就是說怎麼樣讓用人機關的意見能夠在整個考選程序到最後我們有很多機會都提到口試都是讓用人機關從制定考試規則應考科目等等一路參與我們有教考訓用的平台可以用 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10782.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10799.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
前面幾位也有提到就是說未來如果有機會我們還可以去辦地方的基層座談把過去幾十年來他的這些舊法規舊制度怎麼樣因應未來新時代尤其現在大家談的Z世代的這個年輕人已經進到公務體系 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10800.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10818.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
我們怎麼樣能夠符合他們的一個取向的標準讓我們跨世代能夠融合我想這個東西都是未來如果有機會參與考試院的工作的話對過去的這些經驗怎麼分享大家一起討論我都願意來奉獻 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10819.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10842.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
我很歡喜的聽到您說一個動作也就是未來的考試院你如果參與之後希望能夠到基層政府裡頭去聽聽基層的聲音這也是本席從政以來我一直說的不管你制定哪一種法就是人民需要用的如果你定的法人民是用不到的那這個政府也是有歪路 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10843.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10861.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
所以在這種情況之下不管是在制定法律都要多聽民意那同時我們也希望誠如你剛才所說的在整個地方基層裡頭在我們的地方政府他所需要的人才能夠是適材適用、適所適用這個才是最重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10861.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10886.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
當然要有這樣的條件必須要聽取大家寶貴的意見來做最後的一個整合所以本席歡喜聽到你這一點那麼同時你剛才也特別強調也就是文官體制不應該是選舉靠邊站那這一點本席非常讚許你的概念這也是應當要如此因為所有的公務人員都是國家的 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10887.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10909.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
寶貝都是國家的財產它不分哪一個政黨它就是中華民國所以你能夠提出說文官體系它不應當是有這個選舉靠邊站是真正在為國家來做事情所以本席要請教你是不是支持公務人員的教育訓練呢那麼促進這個友善 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10910.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10910.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10936.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10963.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
實績或者是資歷的差異而引發的公權力濫用的現象請做說明公務員他進到職場給他一個公平的對待才是他發揮戰力最基本的一個要求以現在的文官體制我不認為說短期間之內不管是興奉、講仇都能夠做跟民間能夠來競爭 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10965.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10993.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
所以這個部分公平怎麼做我一直感受到就是說怎麼讓我們的基層公務人員能夠有發聲的管道不管是工作上的建議第一線他是最有經驗的你讓他能夠勇於表達包括現在大家關心的職場的公平安全霸凌那現在大家不但沒有這個發聲的管道那我們政府的體系可能也沒有在這些方面強烈的重視 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10994.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
11020.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
換句話說您談到這裡也就是我們目前在整個職場方面即使行政院長已經提出在上個禮拜說一個禮拜內要去清查這個現象我們仍舊除了清查之外還是要有方法有制度我們一起加油謝謝謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝楊委員也謝謝鄧北提名人接下來我們請吳春成委員詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
11043.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
11067.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
有請鄧家基老師請鄧備提名人答詢委員好鄧老師你好應該要叫你老師以你的資歷我仔細看你的資歷加州土木工程的博士 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
11068.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
11096.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
而且在我們的環境工程當中高考高級工程師當了兩屆的市議員大學的助理教授環保局長還有擔任台北市的副市長看你的這個資歷真的感覺你來當考試委員有點大材小用那但是呢考試院既然來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
11098.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
11112.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
我要給你考一些問題我看看你有沒有決心這考試院長期來一直被討論要廢除特別現在我們的執政黨長期主張要廢除考試院 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
11114.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
11141.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
現在又不廢除了那也提名了那既然進來齁但是我想啊這個鄧老師你長期在公務機構我想啊你是非常了解公務員基層公務員的心聲嘛應該不會霸凌吧你以前有霸凌記錄嗎不會吧應該是從你裡面得到了很多的基歐這個公務人員的獎勵齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
11144.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
11169.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
但是我覺得應該替公務員感到要幫他們有不平之名在我大學的時候我們班上的同學大概都是成績最好的會去考高不考考公務員都是非常優秀的人都是非常優秀的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
11170.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
11187.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
但是我們現在公務員在我們社會上面普遍評價不高今天工商時報的社論有一篇社論叫做文官體系可以陷入平庸之惡 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
11189.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
11215.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
平庸之二這個是一個政治哲學家漢納厄蘭他的很有名的一個在談公務體系裡面有很多優秀的人後來呢進來進入這個體系裡面都缺乏了思考的能力然後呢只會配合體制 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
11216.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
11244.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
配合體制然後甚至沒辦法發揮他的良知良能成為一個筷子手在執行一些那我覺得為什麼這一些這麼優秀的人進入到這個體制裡面會變成這樣子我為他們感到非常的不平我相信不是個人的意願 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
11246.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
11275.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
是這個環境、這個組織、這個結構我想誰能改變他們看起來主要在考試院你們從禁用、升遷、退輔從進來到輔續退出去都是考試院職者但是長期來講考試院也是一個平庸機構老太隆中 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
11276.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
11304.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
老太隆中的一個怎麼可能會能夠保護這些人呢能夠給他們旺盛的一個戰鬥的一個意志呢我相信每個人都希望成為一個卓越的人特別是這些能夠考過高普考的這些人都非常的優秀所以呢我對你的期待很高我對你期待很高希望我想這個四年的任期 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
11307.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
11334.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
這個我搞不好這是最後一屆了這個你願不願意成為一個烈士好好的改革不要顧慮那麼多不要管政治不要管要衝撞要衝撞這個體制為自己也為考試院留下一些好名聲可以嗎可以你有意願嗎有接下來我有四個題目要來問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
11336.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11363.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
第一個當然就是文觀體系為什麼會陷入的平庸之惡那到底怎麼做考試院是政府的人力資源的部門所有的組織改革都必須從人資的策略這在企業都是這樣做 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11366.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11395.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
那在之前我看考試院唯一有心改革的就是前院長關中關院長他很積極地要推動文官制度的改革然後特別是考機法這些的推動不過以連他這樣子的一個重量級的政治人士這樣的一個備份的他最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11396.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11415.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
我自己也覺得叫做一事無成那所以要請問你你做得到嗎請問你如果擔任考試委員你會想要推動公務人員考記法的淘汰制度嗎我們以前都覺得公務人員是鐵飯碗 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11420.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11440.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
我這個連續幾個問題你等一下統達這第一大項就是如何去除這種平庸之惡你會推動公務人員的淘汰制度推動考積法的制度嗎再來的話就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11447.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11465.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
面對這個整個全球化國際的競爭我們國家的競爭力那如何來推動我們優質的文官制度那想聽聽你的看法如何做是謝謝委員剛才提到了就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11466.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11492.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
怎麼樣利用考機法能夠提振我們整個公務人員的不管是士氣或工作效率這也是過去考機法一直被認為它是主管的一個人情工具的一個主要的弊病那麼我在報告裡面跟過去的這樣的一個感受我覺得考機的制度不再是幾個人能夠獲得家等 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11493.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11513.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
而是他工作表現該獲得甲等的我們都應該給他所以未來考試院在做這些方面的一個推動如果我有機會來做建議的話我們應該朝這個方式就是說怎麼樣落實考核工作有成效認真的我們給他甲等 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11513.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11539.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
那這樣的話你才能夠有一個誘因．激勵同仁也好．吸引外部的人才進來也好第二個部分您剛才提到關中、關院長當時我也是基層的公務人員當科長每年也都要打考機當時關院長提到了一個重大的震撼的概念就是說我們不好的應該要勇於打丁等 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11539.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11561.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
也就是說淘汰的機制可是我們回想院長提的是最少要3%就考機法的規定都在主管的權限範圍他工作不好的不要說3%你5%也可以也就是說我們要有這樣的一個淘汰的機制在考機 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11563.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11591.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
一年的工作裡面的考核如果不能夠展現這樣子他怎麼樣去配合身牽肌力來激發我們公務人員勇於認識所以我講就是說在這樣的情形有機會我一定會做這方面的一個建議就是假的你要名列條列符合的我就給他這個國家的競爭力這代企業一定是這樣做最近這個川普準備上來他找了馬斯克 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11592.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11603.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
成立了政府效率部那個馬斯克打算把聯邦政府砍掉四分之三砍掉四分之三他覺得效率會更好 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11605.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11633.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
教育更好所以要有競爭力就是說希望在這一點當中不是說我們對那個我想這個才是對基優的公務人員對表現好的公務人員我們要給他更好的條件更好的提升差異化才能夠留住人才但是也不能吃大鍋飯 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11635.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11660.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
這個會讓大家的士氣低落所以希望考試院要往這個方向要去衝撞這個體制第二點要請教你行政中立文化的建立最近勞動部爆發的員工霸凌事件引起了全國的震撼 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11661.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11681.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
大家看到了公務部門爭功為過然後升遷只講究學童的純正不在小圈圈裡面的就沒有份勞役不均公職環境的黑暗面浮上了檯面在早期我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11683.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11707.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
公務單位整個的還是有很多人人正式很敢講話很敢秉持專業給執政當局來建言即使到威權時代蔣經國的時代他的各部位的部長都很敢勇敢建言勇敢提出他的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11709.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11738.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
即使是這樣子但是我很遺憾的看到我們這個現在感覺不會說場的聲音的地位越來越降落了越來越不敢講話了這就是這個古代在講的所謂的大官馳鹿好鱷魚小官畏罪而解舌嘴巴結結巴巴的不敢講話 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11740.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11764.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
我想現在是我們很多普遍看到的整個的公務機構的風氣大家越來越多的高階文官考量的是政治正確甚至不專業這個對整個的士氣整個公務體系用人不能為財這個是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11767.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11790.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
那請問你如果你當上考試委員你如何來捍衛文官的中立讓文官能夠秉持專業良知為國家利益來做事謝謝委員行政中立是找回公務人員文官系統尊嚴我覺得是一個非常重要的工具 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11790.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11819.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
我在報告裡面也特別提到就是說公務人員他雖然是爬格子但是他很珍惜他所得到的這些位置尤其是主管職務所以公務員的系統理論上你主管掉非主管這算是一個重大的懲處可是如果我們在政黨輪替的過程裡面明天要就任今天就把市政府的副秘書長全部都把他通知他要撤換 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11821.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11824.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
這個會影響到沒有被撤換的文官體系在看 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11826.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11849.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
未來的選舉他是不是要靠邊站那這個東西公務人員的尊嚴他就沒有辦法能夠得到保障所以我覺得您剛才提到的就是說怎麼從行政中立裡面來開始著手那麼從行政中立法裡面各位可以看得到就是說他規範比較多的都是公務的體系包括人員、資源等等你不要去靠向政黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11851.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11876.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
但是反過來如果未來有機會我倒是會建議就是說我們不管是政務人員或者是政黨的活動你怎麼樣能夠規範不要逾越該有的規範來去要求我們現有的公務人員第三個問題要來請教你對於公務單位依法行政 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11877.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11898.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
及如何在依法行政之下有前瞻的思維我覺得這點非常的重要上個禮拜我在質詢我們這一個政府的前瞻計畫第5期已經最後一期總共花掉了8400億那主責單位是國發會我問國發會 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11907.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11934.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
這一個這8400億快要花完了我們的國家錢沾了嗎大家都在吵著錢不夠人不夠但是呢事實上看起來都在原地打轉這個不僅是剛才說那個川普要大砍這個公務單位我們自己也要去想 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11936.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11952.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
我們自己想我們這個公務人員為什麼沒有前瞻是不敢做不敢創新另外我們的國債一直舉債現在已經快要到六兆了 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11953.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11964.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
快到溜漲那我要請問你柯文哲當台北市長號稱幫償還幫市府償還的570億你應該是副市長吧當時是他這570億是怎麼還的為什麼他可以還錢各個縣市都在舉債我想這個我還是跟委員報告就是說在整個財政契約率 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11981.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11996.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
首長也是佔了很重要的一個關鍵首長如果不好大喜功他不會利用公家的資源來強化他在任期不必要的績效那麼他能夠節省 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11997.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
12023.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
我舉個例子跟各位報告就是說像四大院他就節省了很多錢這是大家有印象的那首長的重視以後你把不該花的都節省下來那這個會形成一個機關的文化也就是說在這樣的領導的過程裡面你讓各局處能夠尊潔開支該用的用不該用的我們不要亂用這樣的話他財政機率就能夠建立 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
12024.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
12052.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
另外一個因為時間快沒了再來就是公務人員的慣性慣性就是說好像開車他只會一直要往前就一直往前要退後就一直退後以教育部為例像以前我們要開大學就一直開一直開一直開也不管那個少子化的趨勢一直開那現在少子化的照不到學生的就一直關一直關一直關 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
12053.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
12071.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
他只有一直開跟一直關這個在企業的思維是不可思議的不可思議的公務單位這個耗損多少啊所以我們教育部啊我們這20年來我們的教育我們的學生總人數減少了從500多萬現在400多萬少了100萬超過100萬但是我們的教育經費從1000多萬變到3000多萬多了三倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
12082.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
12089.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
就是這樣子的一個從企業的角度是不可思議的但是為這個單位就會這樣子做請問啊如果這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
12093.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
12117.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
如何讓龐大的36萬的公務大軍能夠跳脫這樣的一個舊思維能夠有前瞻的這個透過訓練或者是怎麼樣你覺得公務應該怎麼做謝謝委員就是說您提到了就是說不管是這個平庸之惡或者是慣性我倒完全認同就是說前瞻性是非常重要就公務體系 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
12119.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
12147.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
應該要脫除過去就是說把工作做完就算是完成他應該要強調效率而這個效率是不是能夠符合未來的這樣需求如果能夠兼顧這一點現在考試院也好人事行政總署應該也在因應這些方面對公務人員的考核要導向這個攻擊制也就是說你做了以後對國家社會是真正有攻擊我想這應該能夠避免這樣的一個弊端 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
12148.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
12168.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
所以未來有一件很重要的事情就是臺灣的人口的問題未來30年臺灣最重要的事情是人口的天翻地覆這一個少子化、高齡化、社會的定型但是我發現我們的公務單位幾乎都沒有這樣的一個思維 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
12170.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
12192.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
都還是停留在1970年代那種人口金字塔的思維用這樣的思維在定政策我們已經走向盜金字塔型而且是跑在世界的第一名跑在最前面了這個政策的擬定讓我非常的驚訝非常的驚訝完全沒有對準國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
12193.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
12212.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
沒有看到這一個的情況所以有關於接下來包括考試的項目包括我們培訓的項目對這些公務單位如何因為這個從遴選包括訓練包括怎麼樣如何讓這些公務員有這樣子的思維的改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
12218.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
12242.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
我想這是國安問題我們一定會特別重視在整個考選如果未來有機會我們一定會把這個東西納入參考謝謝委員好謝謝謝謝吳委員謝謝鄧被提名人王潔委員之詢問與書面提出列入紀錄刊登公報下一位請林倩琦委員詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
12257.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
12275.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
主席、我們立院同仁有請鄧備提名人請鄧備提名人委員好鄧備提名人您好本席拜讀了您的經歷、自傳 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
12277.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
12302.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
提答等資料以及剛才聽了兩位委員的詢答可以看得出來您本人確實很有心在考試院貢獻自己的專長以及您的專才考試院主要的功能在這個考試權主要設在健全文官體制、樹立年能政治 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
12303.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
12323.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
促進建構公基制度．創造人民謀求最大福祉的賢人政府．並透過專門的職業及技術人員質量的調控．提升職業水準．確保公共利益及人民的生命．身體、財產等權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
12326.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
12353.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
但是呢我們經過了幾年來﹐爭議極大的年金改革公務員的士氣受到很大的影響最近勞動部又傳出了霸凌輕生案國家公務機關簡直到了關不了生的地步最後危害的還是全民的福祉那關於年金改革跟霸凌的問題最近很多委員都討論過 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
12355.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
12378.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
以您當過公務員、民意代表、行政首長、民間機關的意見領袖本席相信您對本席所提的以上的這一些議題跟問題應該會有誠意的而且很有效度的去處理在您如果有機會擔任考試委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
12381.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
12398.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
所以今天本席在這邊就先贅述這些重大的需要被解決的問題那以本席的身份想談一個目前普遍大家沒有注意到被忽略的問題也就是原住民族特考 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
12401.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
12424.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
這個問題在現在有很大的一個衝擊最重要的就是原住民族特考報考的人數下降而且因為法令的限制讓本來已經很嚴重的問題雪上加霜那不曉得您在這個部分有沒有一些所聞跟了解呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
12427.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
12454.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
謝謝委員指教關於原民特考在過去的10年以我的瞭解他從10年前的每年報考大概3300多人到現在大概1200到1300但是我跟委員報告就是說報考的人數下降有很多的原因那麼據我的瞭解衝擊最大的是當年的主語的認證因為要 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
12455.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
12485.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
保障原住民的權益做了主語的認證以後可能不符合這些原來規範的就比較少來報名可是我跟委員報告就是說原住民特考據我的了解有40多類科有三級、四級、五級而這個40幾類科每年都是針對用人機關的需求提出來以後考選部針對這個部分來辦理原住民的特考所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
12486.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12508.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
您剛才擔心的就是說原住民特考他有受到影響以這個部分來講只要用人機關有需求提出來考選部是不會拒絕他都會報名第二個部分我跟委員報告就是說原住民特考他從以前每年禁用大概有一百七八十位的原住民這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12510.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12510.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12531.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12539.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
未來如果有機會在考試院必須要注意的我想我們也會來跟委員來請教來做這些方面的一個建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12541.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12564.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
謝謝您的回應所以真是不愧過往的這個經歷所以您對這個部分是有相當程度的了解那本席在今天希望透過這個機會也讓您知道那您知道這個特考是原住民擔任公職很重要的管道然後也是在鼓勵我們的人才透過這一個公共事務來促進原住民族的這個傳承也能夠參與公共事務 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12566.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12585.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
本席這邊先跟您提出來因為您也知道問題之所在這個族語的認證那為什麼今天會特別提出來是因為今年是113年度那請您看一下我們接下來的這個簡報所以從100年到113年度原住民族特考報考的統計人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12586.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12587.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
副院長：副院長： |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12605.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12624.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
比50%再多一點58.85等別越高的報考率越低比其他公務人員考試平均報考率70%明顯偏低那為什麼會從110年報考人數更是斷崖式下滑就像您講的其實是受到足語的這個規定的衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12627.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12641.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
但是我們也很感謝過去這個考試院尤其是考試院的姚院長在原住民族的開缺還有在原住民族的考試他很清楚地知道原鄉地區的一個需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12643.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12660.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
但是在很多的文化推動下主語認證成為這個考試很重要的一個關鍵所以有幾方的一個說法本席要提出來的是原住民族的報考人數已經明顯偏低從110年主語認證執行以來又越來越低 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12666.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12687.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
這個當然是原住民族的語言發展法的規定讓許多原住民報考的公務人員很困難這個法施行三年後也就是110年原住民族參與公務人員特種考試的還有公費留考必須要取得族語認證 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12689.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12713.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
那前面已經取得資格的人可能需要足語的這個相關的學分所以在考選部109年修訂了公務人員特種考試原住民族考試規則之後在第三條的第二項規定從110年1月1號在報考的時候就一定要有足語語言能力初級以上的合格認證 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12714.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12729.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
在113年1月1日報考一、二、三等考試一定要取得原住民族委員會合法的原住民族語言能力認證﹐終極以上的合格證書 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12731.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12749.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
語言認證的卡關在110年人數已經降到一千多一千兩百五十二已經跟您所認知的三千有很大的差距了通過族語的原住民主要集中在七到十八歲的青少年 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12749.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12763.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
但是特考的報考人數大概都是集中在21到40歲平均年齡差不多30歲那有一些人可能某一些原因就錯過了學習的黃金時期 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12765.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12787.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
這當然有一個社會的影響第一個部分是我們長期在漢文化的影響下足語有一些流失但是又在整個社會氛圍的推動下又某種程度的被強迫的要把流失的足語給找回來這個在文化上當然是很重要一個認同可是在實際的 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12789.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12801.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
社會操作上確實有個案上的一些困難所以本席想要請問鄧平民仁請問您怎麼看待這樣一個事情非常謝謝委員就是說主語的認證在考試規則裡面應考資格的這樣要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12808.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12829.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
以我個人的了解就是說他是透過用人機關尤其是主管機關的一個意見的徵詢那麼在這種狀況下面如果說這個影響到原住民朋友的這樣的一個應考資格而他本身又是原住民的話這個是可以做檢討也就是說任何 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12830.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12857.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
一個主權任何一個國人他參與國家考試跟服公職的權利這個是應該要受到保障的我想這是可以未來不管是透過教考訓用的平台或者是說主管機關他直接跟考選部來做應考資格的這樣商量這個主語的認證的部分是可以做到調整我個人認為如果有機會就像剛才跟委員報告就是說一定能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12858.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12869.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
我能夠參與的話我能夠把委員的意見能夠跟相關的這些業務單位來做這樣的一個反應我想這是我可以做的未來如果有機會的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12870.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12887.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
所以本席這邊有一個方法跟建議這個特考的主語認證那主語法在25條的第2項還有一個規定原住民族專責機關之公務人員還沒有取得原住民族主語認證者每年應該休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12888.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12905.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
修習一些學分原住民族的這個語言那他修習的時數由中央主管機關來訂定請問您贊不贊成去調整這個報考規定然後保留這個規定呢我想不管是委員或其他 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12905.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12921.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
任何的角度來提供這些方面的建議我剛才跟委員報告就是將來在不管是教考、訓用的平台或者是考選單位直接跟這個用人機關、主管機關來做商議這些都可以去納入考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12922.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12944.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
只要大家討論取得共識我剛剛跟委員報告就是說只要能夠符合應考的權利保障大家應考的權利保障大家服務公職的權利我想這個都值得被考量的謝謝所以你要知道這個報考人數驟降應該會是在考試院被處理績效的這個部分是 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12945.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12963.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
所以在土木工程跟農業技術類科其實是我們很重要如果是在原鄉很需要的一個這個類科那常常錄取也不足耳那麼在每三四年對不起這三年來三四等的考試都錄取不足耳 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12965.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12981.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
總計三等考試不足的比例是40.31四等考試是25.77長年不足額的類科土木工程、農業技術三等考試土木工程類科不足額更高85.14農業技術類科55.73四等的土木類科不足額是62.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12990.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
13012.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
6.1 農業技術類科是51.35那很重要的一點值得注意的是土木工程也就是您的專業這個類科缺人的情況是最嚴重的而且還不是只有原住民族特考但是原住民族特考特別嚴重但也是我們需要這個經常被提列需用名額最多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
13013.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
13035.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
這個不足額跟比率也都是最高的請問鄧提名人土木工程是您的專業您也是所有提名人當中唯一一位土木專業的人員所以對於土木工程類科嚴重缺材的問題您有什麼看法您覺得是什麼樣的原因然後可以怎麼樣來解決或因應這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
13036.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
13065.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
我跟委員報告就是說土木建築這些專業技術類不管是在原民特考或者是在一般高普考都有缺額這裡面第一個我認為最大關鍵就是跟私人企業在競爭人才不管是在彈性、薪資、記憶力各方面公家招募人才的機制都沒有辦法跟私人競爭這是一個長期的隱憂第二個部分就是說在公部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
13066.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
13089.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
尤其是偏鄉我們觀察到的就是執行土木建築工程的執行工程的安全環境非常有問題也就是說它的關縮壓力讓這些專業技術人員他沒有辦法依法行政所以基於這兩點就是說我認為未來現在考選部考試院已經推動的專技人員的轉任 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
13091.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
13106.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
他未來可以對整個正式考試．考選人才不足的部分．他能夠用彈性取材的方式．有專技製造的．他就可以透過徵選．機關有這樣的需求．他能夠進到機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
13108.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
13136.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
但是我剛剛跟委員報告如果跟私人企業競爭的能力不足他還是沒有辦法第二個部分就是安全就是未來如果有機會參與考試院的業務我想我能夠做這些方面的建議就是怎麼樣建構我們基層土木建築工程人員在執行公務的時候他的一個安全的環境我覺得這個在制度上能夠給他做保護做避免比如說我們人是 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
13138.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
13152.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
這個這個這個陣風系統他能夠定期來關懷我們基層的工程人員你在過程有沒有受到不當的壓迫我覺得對他的保護對他留任的機率都很好當然最後因為這些工程人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
13153.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
13178.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
Iwan Nawi 公務繁重他都透過相關職系的轉任他就留掉也就是說在機關內部人才流失也是一個非常關鍵但這個部分因為都是為國家來服務這個部分要去做限制對當事人對其他部門的需求也很難所以我覺得應該還是從對私人競爭的能力來著手再加上安全的 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
13183.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
13202.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
謝謝鄧提名人所以您也相當程度的瞭解從公務機關的角度土木相關的工程人員的問題所以最後一個問題本席想要請教您原住民族特考的職缺都位於比較偏鄉的地區 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
13204.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
13226.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
那107年到113年之間．機關所提報的職缺．六成的職缺．就在全國的55個原住民族鄉鎮市那提缺機關的地域的分布．以臺東縣、新北市、花蓮縣所在的機關最多但是目前涉及在都會的原住民族．已經將近一半 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
13227.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
13242.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
偏遠地區的任職條件跟職癌發展跟都會區我想您也很清楚知道也有一些差距自從姓名法開始實施之後那又有更大的一個比例上的差異所以這也是原住民族報考 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
13244.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
13266.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
報考率可能偏低的一個原因所以我們也可以發現近三年開缺越來越多可是足以認證的這個規定又讓人才供應不朽所以本席想請教您您是否如果有機會到考試院的話可以幫原住民爭取提升都會區的職缺嗎第二點 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
13268.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
13295.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
最近公務人員霸凌的事件受到關注您剛才也很了解這個土木類科的這個公務人員可能在職場上所遇到的問題那原住民在這裡面也有文化差異上的一個狀況所以我們想請考試院在原住民族公務人員身牽的這個相關的資訊本席也很期待您能夠向了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
13295.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
13301.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
Iwan Nawi Iwan Nawi Iwan Nawi Iwan Nawi Iwan Nawi |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
13318.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
13333.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
參與考試院業務委員的指教我們一定把它全盤做一個瞭解就是說原住民朋友在公務體系他的工作狀況升遷是不是有受到這些該有的改善而沒有做的部分我想這個我會來 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
13335.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
13358.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
參與您剛剛提到的就是說原住民也好偏鄉也好除了剛才主語的認證我個人也一直觀察就是說如果能夠按照職責的程度來做職務劣等讓大家都能夠公平對待不會說工作多的錢少的官等小 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
13361.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
13381.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
工作少的官等大現在我們講直轄市跟縣市要能夠齊一列等其實主要考量也在這一點我們都經歷過臺北縣的升格升格對工作我個人的觀察沒有什麼變化但是科長馬上升一等副局長馬上升一等 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
13382.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
13394.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
這個東西最大的好處在哪裡呢臺北縣原來人才流失非常嚴重不是跑來臺北市就是中央部會又進但是一旦升等以後當時留下來的現在都當了副局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
13395.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
13421.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
所以我覺得說縣市的列等的綜合的檢討我覺得不應該再拖那這樣的話可以改善人才在偏鄉服務的一個意願偏鄉不是不好有山好山好水我個人就認為說比都市還要好這個可能要看個人的這個意願然後想法以前警察調萬華分局那個是很競爭現在警察是調 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
13422.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
13438.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
台東是第一志願我聽說因為輕鬆一樣的待遇所以我覺得這個都有各有喜好但是制度上如果能夠讓它公平的話我覺得應該是可以改善委員的建議我們會來參考如果有機會進到立法院考試院 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
13439.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13453.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
那本席這邊還是提醒一下那在都會區職缺的這個爭取上您有沒有機會為原住民再多爭取都會區相關的職缺如果有機會的話我們一定會把委員的意見帶進去好不好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13455.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13475.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
本席希望您如果有機會到考試院來投入跟服務的話請把本席所提的這個問題列進很積極的一個考量跟積極的推動是 謝謝好 謝謝林委員 謝謝登輩提名人下一位我們請陳瑩委員詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13505.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13525.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
謝主席麻煩請被提名人鄧家基先生請鄧被提名人答詢吳元宏您好我想就從善如流稱您鄧老師因為未來我也要跟您請教很多環保的問題是 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13527.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13552.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
在上個禮拜考試委員的公聽會國民黨跟民眾黨推薦的學者對您的批評是相當毫不留情的就像民眾黨推薦學者的發言當中考試委員很多是政治任命但是必須可以做好國家考試的相關工作您覺得您可以勝任這份工作嗎我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13556.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13582.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
應該會全力以赴那過去因為我有這個公務人員的這些從事的經驗那麼在這些方面我想就是未來如果有機會在文官體系來講的話我應該可以提供一些意見那至於您剛剛提到就是說政黨提名我個人是把它當作是榮譽如果有機會我們一定全力承擔做最好的一個奉獻不會有其他的一些顧慮謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13583.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13607.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
好 謝謝 我也拜讀您的經歷那我相信以您的資歷還有這個公益的精神熱心公益的精神我想應該是可以升任是沒有問題的您跟柯文哲的關係不言而喻那柯文哲在競選總統時您也是全國競總的主任委員如果有人說 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13608.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13637.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
柯文哲以台灣第三政黨的主席推薦您擔任考試委員是酬庸的話您同意這樣的講法嗎其實柯主席從來沒有想到要對我有任何酬庸就是說我們當時後來柯主席也非常了解就是說我是文官訓練出身的公務員然後後來有機會擔任政務官包括副市長我們所重奉的在職的觀念就是盡忠職守 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13638.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13654.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
很傳統所以我也跟柯市長不斷的報告就是說為人謀而不忠乎今天有幸當柯市長的副手我們就是以忠誠把事情做好我也交代所有的我帶過的同仁都以這個原則而不做其他方面的考試 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13654.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13669.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
因為過去我不認識您我對您也沒有任何的成見或偏見那我也剛剛也說了拜讀您的經歷那我想如果有人說這是仇庸的話我也會反對他的意見是 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13672.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13692.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
但是我想要請教您一件事您知不知道原民會有一個職務大家稱作為族群委員那他是以聘用的方式聘任任期跟原民會主委是同進退的那人選是由原民會主委提請行政院院長聘任 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13693.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13719.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
他的任務是協助原民會推動業務這一屆的族群委員當中大家都是從事原住民族事務工作相當多年的非常優秀的人選其中有一位他不只擔任過去地方民代、中央民代的助理很多年過去在原民會也待過三年在地方縣府待過九年 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13720.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13748.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
加起來他從事原住民整個的工作全部加起來是超過30年的所以我想比照您這樣子的經歷去比較的話您覺得這樣子的人才他適不適合來擔任協助原民會主委去處理這個族群的事務謝謝委員就是說在整個公務系統它包含了 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13750.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13772.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
政務人員跟公務人員文官系統我個人還是一直強調也認為有能力有經驗他願意為國家社會人民服務都應該值得鼓勵也都應該來絕對的尊重這樣的話對整個政府的效能運作提升才會有幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13773.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13800.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
我想剛剛我前面敘述的也具備這樣的特質所以也謝謝您的肯定但是因為民眾黨推薦您不能算是酬庸但是我們推薦了對於30年原住民失誤工作經歷的原住民擔任原民會族群委員就叫做酬庸我想這個是相當不公平我相信您也會認為這是不合理的結論 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13802.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13828.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
那希望有機會可以跟這個推薦您的民眾黨好好說一說不要繼續用這個非我族類的心態讓人家只會覺得說所有事情這個政黨好像都是為反對而反對那我再繼續請教就是因為這個聘任的這個族群委員呢他的任期是與這個圓明會主委同進退的 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13828.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13847.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
那麼他們有簽約我剛剛上台之前我又再跟原民會確認過有簽約有聘書而且這個合約是很明確的訂定就是與主委同進退但是很不幸的在立法院突然修法那也表決 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13849.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13861.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
就是提出這個修法就是要把它改成無極值那這些人大概上任不到兩個月的時間我想要請教一下您對這樣子修法的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13864.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13880.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
報告委員就是說有機會的話我一定更深入來了解那麼如果說有考試院的相關業務可以來協助我們一定全力來做如果未來能夠到考試院的話這點我們絕對的尊重是 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13881.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13898.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
我想我要請教的是說我想他們是進來為政府做事情那也是做族群事務的事情那麼在突然遇到立法院這樣的修法他們又有簽約那麼在這樣子的一個情況下 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13899.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13916.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
大家把工作辭了然後來接受這樣子的一個任命但是卻又突然的修法修掉了那您覺得這樣子的這樣子的比較粗暴的這樣子的修法然後造成這樣子的結果是樂見的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13918.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13936.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
個人同意的嗎就是說如果有機會的話我一定深入的來了解再聽聽看大家綜合討論的一個狀況最關鍵的就是說未來如果有機會跟考試院業務有關的部分我想我們一定全力以赴 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13937.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13957.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
好 謝謝你那另外是這樣在臺灣新故鄉這個智庫協會臺灣新故鄉智庫協會依照媒體的報導它就像是民眾黨的智庫在柯文哲主席涉貪案件當中這個協會的秘書長蘇敬強被約談那這個協會的監事葛樹仁也被媒體報導那他其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13963.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13981.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
是威京集團旗下中華工程的獨立董事這個協會的顧問孫鳳群也有在這個案件當中被列為貪污的被告依照您提供的個人簡歷當中您也是臺灣新故鄉智庫協會的常務監事而且是從112年擔任到現在您還覺得還適合繼續再擔任這個協會的常務監事嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13993.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
14015.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
總委員報告就是說未來如果有機會的話按照這個相關的規則考試委員應該超出黨派依據法律獨立行使職權是所以您現在目前還是這個協會的成員是那所以如果順利當選通過我們審核通過之後呢那這個您就會請辭是嗎會獨立行使職權是 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
14017.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
14036.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
好 謝謝那我希望就是說這個我想我問這樣的問題也沒有有沒有不好的這個特別的惡意那您按照這個藉著這個機會來說明表態我想也給予您肯定 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
14036.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
14050.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
那另外我們再回到原住民的問題因為我謝謝您回答前面兩個問題那比較尖銳的一些意識形態問題我就拿掉了那我們就針對原住民的問題我們來好好討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
14052.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
14067.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
原住民特考因為原住民家庭的經濟狀況如果與全體國人比較原住民家庭經濟狀況相對弱勢所以報考公職常常會是原住民比較希望改善家庭經濟狀況的優先選擇 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
14072.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
14090.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
剛剛前面也有委員垂詢到高普考錄取不足額的情況越來越嚴重我相信您也有注意到這個問題但是我們也看一下特別整理的這個表我們的這個錄取不足額的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
14092.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
14105.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
現在是更嚴重了藍色的部分是高普考黃色的部分是原住民特考那以去年來說高普考錄取不足額的比例大概5%那原住民特考錄取不足額的比例卻高達46.3% |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
14108.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
14124.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
所以原住民特考錄取不足額的比例是高普考的九倍相當高或許有人講說因為原住民特考人數比較少但錄取不足額的這個趨勢它的確是存在的 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
14125.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
14148.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
那以這個去年為例：各用人機關在原住民特考：提出的這個緣額需求是175人：最後順利分發的只有94人：而且每年報考人數都有上千人：但最後分發卻不到一半那剛剛前面有委員問說您覺得問題出在哪裡我很仔細的聆聽您說這個問題是出在您認為是出在這個足語的認證的考試是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
14155.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
14171.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
足以認證以後人數有減少是吧那您有參考過實際竊竊竊竊這個通過的人數嗎比例上有就是您剛剛提的就是說像去年這個整個三等四等大概錄取到100名是吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
14172.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
14192.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
我想是這樣建議這個人數上我們可以因為畢竟我剛剛也跟原民會確認過足以通過率這個足以認證的通過率其實是還蠻高的那其實實際的問題可能也不是您的問題也不是其他考試委員問題因為我們原住民確實沒有在原鄉 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
14193.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
14208.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
沒有特殊的補習的管道這個落差是很大的我在這邊也特別跟您分享這樣的問題我想特別在這裡提出來就是說未來當您順利擔任這個考試委員之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
14210.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
14239.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
能否協助原住民在特考考試類科是否能夠把它擴大因為畢竟我們現在看到的就是大部分大概都是一般行政一般基層的公務人員但是我們對於外交、體育外交當然很多的南島語系國家我們的外交官到外面去約他們國會議員都約不到我去一天都約到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
14240.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
14258.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
所以還有這個體育現在這一次的這個棒球裡面超過一半每一場下場的超過一半都是原住民還有我們的民族藝術、音樂、文化等等我想這一類的這個科別是不是可以再擴大是 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
14260.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
14285.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
我看您有記筆記這個應該是重要的事項吧未來如果有機會的話委員的意見我們一定會來跟這個相關的單位來做參考您剛才提到的就是類科以現在來講40多項類科如果還有新增的話還是一樣就是說用人機關如果說有特殊的需求按照我們現在的考試規則他都可以按照這個新增 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
14286.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
14310.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
類科相關的辦法來做這樣的一個研究不會被無謂的拒絕這第一個第二個就是說您提到相關的這些外交、體育如果這些部分我們未來有機會的話一定會請相關的單位跟這些用人的機關來做商量就是說針對原住民朋友任公職的權益怎麼來做擴大或保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
14311.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
14338.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
好 謝謝您那麼最後一個問題我想要請教的就是有關於警察特考的部分警察的工作相當的辛苦還有危險原住民從事警察工作的比例是相對是比較高的因為目前我們原住民占臺灣的總人口數大約在2.6%左右但是在警察當中是原住民的比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
14339.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
14367.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
卻是已經超過3%那我們原住民一直都希望是不是可以在原住民特考的項目當中呢增設一般警察人員的項目可是呢不管是在行政或立法討論已經非常久了到現在都一直沒有下文如果您擔任考試委員您覺得原住民特考是不是應該可以增設一般警察人員的項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
14368.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
14395.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
我剛剛跟委員也報告就是說徵社的部分還是要用人機關他有這樣的需求主動提出來那如果說將來有機會進到考試院的話我們相關單位我能夠跟他來做溝通的就在這一點就是說如果沒有提出來我們主動跟用人機關來商議是不是可以需要這樣的一般警察人員的項目像在近年在各地的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
14396.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
14398.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
監製副院長、副院長及副院長及副院長及副院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
14419.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
14432.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
有需要原住民的警察因為在跟當地原住民溝通其實在文化上的隔閡在語言上的隔閡確實有很大的困擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
14434.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
14457.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
在座談的過程當中確實大家有表達對於原住民警察的需求所以我也當然未來如果您有這樣子的一個想法我想非常好如果一直沒有辦法順利推動原住民特考增設警察的項目我想在法律的規定上一直 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
14458.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
14480.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
也是有存在這個漢格的問題所以我們希望未來可以一起努力來協調那最後一點時間我們講一些比較輕鬆的事情那麼因為這一次呢我們其實在所有的考試委員當中呢只有一位是原住民那麼我們在黨團登記的時候我坦白說我是抽籤抽到您的 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
14482.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
14500.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
那大家問我說要不要換換去問原住民的這個考試委員的候選人我說不要那因為我想透過這樣子的質詢那我準備多一點跟原住民相關的這個議題也可以藉這個機會提醒您還有其他非原住民的考試委員我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
14501.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
14528.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
處理這個原住民特考的部分不會只有是一個原住民考試委員的工作那也希望未來我們大家可以一起共同來注意原住民的議題一起努力 謝謝好 謝謝委員執照好 謝謝陳委員也謝謝登輩提名人下一位請鄭正前委員詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
14539.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14567.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
謝謝主席我想請一下考試委員備提名人鄧家基先生謝謝請鄧備提名人答詢委員好備提名人好我是最後一個來跟您提問的一個委員那我把你的相關的資料看得非常的完整所以我大概也做了一個簡單的一個資料那你從民國70年代就取得高考及格大概是我覺得你跟那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14569.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14569.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14599.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14624.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
民進黨這邊提名變成一個考試委員那確實也讓我們對您的一個經驗的豐富非常的欽佩那我也看到你的那個整個自傳當中寫到很多的一些不同的經驗然後在經驗裡頭我發現非常正能量你對於你從一開始在公務體系當中被破格 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14625.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14645.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
運用 比方說從建七職等然後去做九職等的工作你覺得這也是很正面的一個部分那包括有很多不同的內容可是這部分可能跟現在有一些年輕人的想法可能不太一樣因為你現在你叫他做七職等你去叫他做九職等的工作他可能會覺得你被剝削了 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14646.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14660.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
等等那因為你在你的那個報告當中你最後你也提到說你過去的經驗的時候事實上你是一個很雞婆能夠比較熱心能夠調和抵賴能夠把你的經驗去做引導後輩的一個這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14660.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14661.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
我跟委員報告就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14688.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14707.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
公務員的曾經的工作經驗應該對未來會很有幫助的地方就是說我們要能夠充分的把剛才報告的七成同仁的激勵的部分能夠透過考機或獎程包括您剛剛提到的破格拔佐 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14708.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14726.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
年輕人也不見得他喜歡這樣子爬格子可是關鍵就是你有一個制度讓他表現那第二個考機能夠讓他一年的工作績效能夠得到該肯定的肯定該否定的否定為什麼因為還是有很多人在看該否定的沒有被否定 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14727.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14749.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
這就比較麻煩我想這個是我可以做這些方面來貢獻第二個部分我剛才前面也提到過就是說我認為當一個主管或當一個機關的首長他對同仁的照顧尤其跟大家報告的管教養慰他要有這樣的一個修煉有這樣的修養那這樣的話就能夠帶動同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14751.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14769.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
所以我跟委員報告說我當年被破格拔卓從建十一直接跳建九的科長這是很難可是我們的責任也很大那時候我年輕但是就知道說同仁都在看笑話尤其是科長層級那我們就在這樣的進進業業那麼對同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14772.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14801.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
我們要勇於負責我想這也是自己的一個要求那這些經驗將來如果有機會在考試院我想在這個相關的考機、獎程、升遷該有能夠主動積極不是像過去只是管人而是要看到他的真正功績要給他肯定我想這個是我願意來貢獻的地方未來若有機會的話是OK你認為現在公務體系當中最需要改革的問題是什麼然後您的具體改革方向是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14803.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14833.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
我一開始就跟各位報告就是說我認為考機法是很好來做修改可是我看到考試院提供了很多資料包括最近提的考機法的修正都中途停在那個地方最主要的就是說歸納就是錢獎金不得到大家的這樣的一個支持我想這個還是可以改善可是我的具體建議就是說該考他甲等的我們不要因為財政的限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14834.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14854.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
限制他75%大家覺得75%很多但是對一個機關他也是會有激進同仁全部全年奉獻努力的你也不要讓這樣的主管或首長有這樣線索可是他不應該考甲等的你給他95%就是現在大家的抱怨所以我覺得比如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14855.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14863.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
如果我們不要設限但是條例很清楚符合一二三四項你就該給他夾等不符合的一個都不給 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14864.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14891.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
第二個部分我認為檢陽報告就是同儕如果你給他自評同人之間如果互相評那再加上主管的負評最後考機委員會這樣眾人的智慧他一定能夠減少大家的抱怨如果還有抱怨我們公報現在是公開的社會大家都會看這樣的主管做了這樣的考機他有沒有公平我想這應該是可以得到大家支持的修正是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14892.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14911.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
你有特別提到說在整個通盤檢討中央及地方職務劣等這件事情當中的時候因為確實在中央跟地方機關的職務劣等差異導致地方的人才很容易流失也招募困難這件事情你覺得考試院應該要重視改善你覺得要如何改善你有沒有具體的一個方向要怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14913.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14933.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
簡單講就是說大家提到了全盤的職務列等的檢討如果說要縮小範圍的話我個人倒是建議可以先從縣市跟直轄市其一來做比較這個其一就是說你不要說直轄市的這個層級高相同的職務他就低他一等兩等 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14934.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14961.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
就是說你只要看他做的工作看他做的職責甚至有些公務員還建議說你看我在偏鄉做的工作的數量不會比直轄市少這部分我們確實也拭目以待因為在地方確實也碰到人才其實很容易流失然後招募不易的問題然後另外就是有關於約聘僱人員長期在政府機關工作當中沒有辦法享受公務人員同等的福利你也提到這個部分要加以改善你覺得要如何去改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14963.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14968.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
約聘僱最大的問題就是他不屬於公務員他也不是勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14969.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14998.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
那他們自己就一直在問那我們屬於什麼呢意思就是說在整個人事行政法制裡面沒有針對約聘僱有一套完整的權利義務的保障我想這是我們應該將來有機會要極力來促成但是我以考試院提供的資料我的了解就是說他們已經完成了所謂契約人員人事條例而這個部分將來如果成功他可以把剛才講的約聘人員跟聘僱人員把他納在裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14999.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
15024.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
這樣的話對他整個從禁用、考核、報酬、起價甚至將來的退休給付、工商等等都能夠得到完整的一個權益造成這部分我們其實是有些期待的因為對於整個約聘僱人員確實在地方當中他們定位不明然後權責不明、保障不明所以這確實在地方的公務體系當中很普遍的一個問題所以我們也對於就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
15025.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
15040.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
新的考試委員當中是不是能夠取這個問題我們其實是有些期待的那我接下來我想特別問一個因為整個公務人員整個吸引力公務員的一個職缺吸引力不斷在下降我給你看一個數字考選部的資料統計公務員高普考人數從2013年的146209人減少到去年只剩下67339人10年內降幅高達53.89% |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
15052.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
15065.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
這麼嚴重的狀態當然有很多一個部分信例下降一定有它的原因那請問您覺得主要原因在什麼地方那您如何要來提升公務職位的競爭力讓更多優秀的人才能夠進入公務體系來 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
15066.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
15091.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
我跟委員報告就是說從正面看目前雖然降到七萬、六萬可是我們一年招的是一萬三所以在整個數值來講考試院也做過這樣的一個分析就是說他整個進來的這些學經歷還好就品質沒有變差可是就長程來講誠如委員剛才提的就是說怎麼樣去吸引年輕尤其年輕的公務人員願意進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
15093.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
15108.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
這個宣導價值觀很重要現在對年輕人來講除了講仇不能夠跟風險不能夠跟工作量來成正比之外他最大的困擾就是公務人員的體系現在做一百件好事只要一件 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
15108.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
15138.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
哇那媒體社會就批判那這樣的話對公務人員的成就感正面形象沒有那對年輕人對私人的市場他選材的多元化他的競爭對他的吸引力他怎麼會進到公家機關這是我覺得這個最大的一個隱憂當然就制度上如果我們能夠改善我們的興奉我們的這些值等值別的這些改善能夠有一些誘因能夠吸引優秀的人才進來這也是最好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
15138.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
15149.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
可是終究不比我們當年當年我們我跟各位委員報告過就是說我們是因為公教子弟受到這樣的一個觀念影響小時候讀書就是為了 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
15151.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
15176.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
不是報國打仗就是當公務人員要不然就是教書現在的小朋友沒有這樣的一個概念那怎麼去做宣導上面的改變所以現在考試院我看到他有這個國考的宣講總之團能夠深入校園甚至結合用人機關針對特定的系所特定的考試的類科來做這樣的一個選定標的來宣講我覺得這可能也會是一個有效果的一個方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
15178.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
15191.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
確實因為薪資待遇、升遷空間還有工作負擔其實三個最主要讓年輕人其實一直沒有走入公務員的三個主要的考量可是我們看到進入公務員的人數也許 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
15193.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
15206.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
報考人數越來越低可是我們也看到離職率不斷的增高我們看到考試院報告2022年公務人員的離職人數達到13500人次比前一年的10990人次增加22.8%一年增加22.8%的離職人次 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
15214.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
15227.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
顯示公務體系面臨日益嚴峻的人才流失的狀態針對這樣子離職率上升的問題你認為主要的原因在哪邊如何通過政策的調整能夠有效來降低離職率 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
15230.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
15247.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
這個在之前我也聽過像副院長被提名的人提到就是說除了考試招募人才困難之外你招募進來的人才能夠留住也是非常困難我想這是一個真正的關鍵那麼現在人才因為剛才外面的吸引力很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
15248.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
15272.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
我們內部如果沒有這樣管理上的一個激勵措施或者向心力的一個培養你要把他留住來尤其對優秀的人才跟外面競逐他一定會跑掉所以我剛才特別報告就是說如果將來有機會我們應該要加強機關的首長或單位的主管在這個領導管理上的一個磨練就是說你要給他有這樣的一個要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
15272.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
15283.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
而不是只有給他有打考機的權利你打考機完了以後是對同仁向心力團結一個責任這樣的話對人才的留任可能會更有幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
15284.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
15310.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
確實是如此因為我覺得怎麼樣提升公務人員的一個在職率的問題確實是一個問題最近勞動部發生的一個職場霸凌的一個案件那我覺得就是一個很明顯的一個狀態其實在目前基層能力配置非常的不足很多單位只有7個人因為負擔12個人的工作量那面對這樣的一個情況你如何你認為要怎麼樣透過更好的一個人力編織跟預算規劃來解決人力短缺的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
15313.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
15326.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
機關原額一直是政府的一個包袱政府一直強調就是說人事的費用越來越多但是我個人將來若有機會的話我會提供一些意見就是說我們機關的業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
15328.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
15355.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
也不斷地在成長除非你能夠簡化那如果說我們的機關總額編制總額不能夠突破你怎麼可以要求我們服務的品質提升我想這是一個非常必要要面對的問題所以我想就是說公務機構在這樣的一個狀況你不能夠要馬而好又要馬而不吃草所以這是為什麼說在窮責變的過程各位可以看得到約聘僱的人員不會少 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
15355.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
15370.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
他就是希望在這些方面彈性運用那如果是這種情形他的待遇福利又不能夠完全改善的時候這也是我們政府機構包括考試院、人事行政總署我覺得應該要正面面對要不然未來怎麼去跟私人企業來競逐人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
15371.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
15389.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
你剛剛在回答當中你不斷提到跟私人企業的一個職場競爭的一個問題因為你上任工作的時候你是在副班擔任讀董我覺得是一個很特殊而且一個很重要的一個位置我想特別請教一下針對公務體系跟民間競爭力的落差在職務 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
15390.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
15404.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
競爭力落差當中,薪資是一個很重要的考量點您是否支持全面檢討公務員的薪酬結構是否考慮引入彈性工時然後績效獎金等民間的管理模式來提升公務體系的競爭力跟吸引力 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
15406.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
15421.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
如果有機會的話我倒是建議這是不得不面對的一個時勢的一個趨勢現在不是Z世代的觀念改變時代跟社會都在變那如果說我們公務人員我們的公部門體系還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
15422.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
15425.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
Iwan Nawi Iwan Nawi Iwan Nawi |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
15441.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
15458.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
這是一定會面臨挑戰的事因為我們剛剛提到很多公務員相關的一些問題當中的時候從民主理論當中的時候我就要請教一下就是被提名的人有關於公會的一個相關的問題就請問你這邊是不是支持就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
15459.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
15485.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
公務人員組成公會或者是錦銷組織公會的相關問題那你之前曾經表示說公務人員跟勞工的身份屬性本質不同那目前的法律不是用公會法本席理解這個狀態那我想說你在指的狀態公會法當中的時候應該指到各級機關跟公立學校公務人員的結社組織其他依其他法律規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
15486.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
15501.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
所以說我在這邊也特別把那個依照公會法的跟公務人員的相關的協會組成協會的方式做了一個小小的一個比較那在當中的時候因為公會的時候還很清楚保障勞工的結社權、協商權還有一個罷工權、團結議價的一個權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
15506.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
15534.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
那公務員這邊的時候呢組織公會當中的時候呢行使爭議權也就是罷工權這個部分您可不可以更具體回應因為你在書面回應的資料當中的時候你提到你是採取一個比較開放的一個觀點可是你提到說目前的關鍵是權益妥善照顧而不是讓他們組成公會針對這個說法你是不是可以更詳細的一個做一個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
15535.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
15541.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
我跟委員報告就是說我的觀察包括錦霄同仁他要的是權力 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
15543.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15569.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
權益的照顧這也是我們一再強調國家對公務人員負了基本照顧的責任要不然我們怎麼說他是公法上的職務關係但是公法上的職務關係他在定義他在行使的方式又完全不明那你怎麼去保障公務人員的權益所以我認為我們現在如果說不能夠突破公會法因為公會法你要改變的時候我們團體協商法相關的救濟等等都要改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15570.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15594.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
那這個時候所以公務體系現在尋的就是說公務人員協會法來爭取他的團結權爭取他的協商權那如果說有責任他要克折甚至等等那但是這些東西如果你不能夠滿足公務人員的權益保障那這個東西你就必須要做檢討也就是說我認為你不能夠不讓他組織公會可是你又不做他的權益照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15594.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15615.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
我覺得這是政府有失責的地方這也是我一直認為從公務體系出身應該在這些方面要有正確的表達就是說國家有國家的責任主管有主管的責任你不能夠不盡責任而要求我們整個文官體系公務人員不能夠組公會不能夠爭取自己的權益這是我主要的一個看法所以你認為公務人員組織 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15618.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15647.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
工會你覺得你是朝向一個正面的角度在看待過程當中你覺得政府應該要去妥善的給他們權益的一個保護這是一個過程可是讓公務員組成工會你覺得是應該的我可以這麼理解你的意思嗎我跟委員報告可以開放討論就是說我們原來限制擔憂的因素比如說國家安全公共服務他不能夠不持續來做這些方面的服務只要在不影響這些部分你有限制的他是可以做 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15647.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15653.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
公務員的勞動條件有很多不合理的規定比如說他在申請加班費的時候有時數的限制可是在加班當中的時候是沒有上限的某個部分也是跟這次勞動部相關的問題產生 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15670.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15694.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
關聯性在齁那所以說我在這邊我也想特別問一下就是你說公務人員跟勞工的身份屬性不同不是用公會法嗎如果未來立法院通過了組織相關一個法律修正案你是不是也支持就公務員組織成公會就你剛剛提到這個部分如果可以開放討論然後立法院也通過了修法你就基本上你就支持我可以這麼理解你的意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15696.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15719.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
這個問題在就是說剛才跟委員報告公法上的職務關係他的定義要清楚如果這個部分不能夠清楚他的身份屬性就不會是勞工的關係不會是勞工的關係你要去適用公會法他就是沒有辦法所以我想就是說在這些方面如果在這部分系統上不能夠突破所以我剛才跟委員報告我個人倒是建議就是說國家先組成 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15720.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15741.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
權益照顧委員會來檢視公務人員的基本權益這些做到了以後我們再來做其他方面的改變當然如果法令能夠制度上能夠突破我個人也是會來吸納看大家的看法因為你針對這個部分我覺得你公法上的職務關係因為特別權力關係是另外考量的一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15742.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15767.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
那我在說你在資料當中你有說到你如果通過審議順利擔任考試委員的時候你會建議提出哪些具體的那個法令的修正來達到你說建議更明確的一個法律規定好 謝謝鄭委員 謝謝鄧備提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15771.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15794.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
報告全院委員會對考試委員被提名人鄧家基尋答部分到此為止謝謝鄧被提名人家機列席答詢10月3日星期二上午9時繼續開會審查考試院考試委員被提名人王秀紅、呂秋慧、柯麗鈴資格之相關事宜現在休息 |
| IVOD_ID |
16326 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16326 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-29 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-29T14:00:28+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-29T18:25:00+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |