| IVOD_ID |
16321 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16321 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-28 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-35-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
19 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-28T08:30:00+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-28T13:30:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
05:00:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2d0909407a1db8a6676425655b8120616fb104c5adbfed68f7c9c8ac616c16d7385ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-28T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第19次全體委員會議【含秘密會議】（事由：一、審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於外交部主管收支公開及機密部分。（僅詢答）
二、繼續處理院會交付外交部113年度中央政府總預算決議（十八）「對外之捐助」預算凍結100萬元案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:00 - 13:30:00 |
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1996.92 |
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報告委員會出席委員8人以主法定人數開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
2008.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
2028.366 |
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這裡有一個宣告外交部林部長上午臨時必須出席一項重要的會議待會十點鐘才能來到會場依據預算法第53條第二項規定委員會審查總預算的時候機關首長應該列席報告並備詢所以我們現在休息十點鐘等林部長來到會場後繼續開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
5598.129 |
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5602.353 |
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現在繼續開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
5607.369 |
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5632.1 |
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立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第18次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國113年11月27日星期三上午9時2分至11時8分地點紅樓301會議室出席委員盧美琳等10人、列席委員麥玉珍等10人列席人員國家安全局副局長張元斌及所屬人員文化部政務次長王石獅內政部警政署副署長李振曉 |
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5633.18 |
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5650.232 |
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大陸委員會副主任委員沈友宗主席王昭吉委員定語。報告是,相依宣讀上次會議,意思如決定確定而邀請國家安全局文化部內政部警政署大陸委員會報告從國有器官在台播映困境,看中國對台灣的長臂管轄策略。 |
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5650.712 |
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5667.34 |
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及我國的因應方案並被質詢。國家安全局副局長張元斌、文化部政務次長王實施、大陸委員會副主任委員沈友忠及內政部警政署副署長李振曉報告。委員沈伯陽等10人質詢均由國家安全局副局長張元斌、 |
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5668.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
5696.472 |
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特勤中心李副指揮官、內政部警政署副署長李振曉、文化部政務次長王石石及大陸委員會副主任委員沈有忠等即席答覆。決定一登記質詢在場委員均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束。二、委員所提口頭及書面質詢未及答覆或要求提供資資訊,請相關機關於二週內書面答覆本會全體委員並附追本會委員令指定期限則從其所定。三、委員羅志強所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報。宣讀完畢。 |
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5701.345 |
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5702.225 |
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介紹在場的委員羅美玲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
5731.687 |
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5760.669 |
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介紹委會官員外交部部長林佳龍亞太司司長藍夏里亞非司司長賀忠義歐洲司副司長林祖恩拉美司副司長張志信北美司司長王良玉 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
5764.131 |
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5791.001 |
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條法司副司長許伯毅國主司司長孫簡元國軍司副司長林美成國船司副司長林宇貞沿社會主任張雅光禮賓處處長陳欣欣 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
5796.567 |
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5806.755 |
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秘書處處長 洪正榮人事處處長 黃麗玲政風處處長 余世民主計處處長 李佩華資電處處長 林啟文國中會執行長 劉永健 |
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5827.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
5853.388 |
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NGO國際事務會執行長陳剛毅臺日協秘書長范正國臺美會秘書長邱高偉外交學院副院長陳文宜領務局副局長陳尚友 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
5857.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
5881.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
國和會副秘書長矢力軍臺灣民主基金會執行長廖達齊PECC中華民國委員會秘書長許俊彬行政院主計總處專門委員張家瑜 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
5887.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
5908.972 |
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經濟部人事處專門委員紀嘉琳教育部國際及兩岸教育師檢任一等教育秘書曾進文化部文化交流師專門委員梁玉芳勞動部綜合規劃師專門委員林永裕 |
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5915.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
5940.664 |
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僑務委員會人事處主任楊智傑退府會服務照顧處檢任視察吳家昌國科會科教發展及國際合作處科長李家儒經管會國際業務處科長黃耀白 |
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5946.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
5954.881 |
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核能安全委員會綜合規劃組科長吳明哲。（農業部國際事務司國際組織科科長臉麗慈。（漁業署遠洋漁業組科長賴怡汝。（交通部觀光署國際組科長陳冠竺。（ |
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5975.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
5984.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
財政部國際財政司科長李威龍衛福部國際合作組暨政古凱文 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
5990.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
6010.405 |
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審查114年度中央政府總預算案關於外交部主管收支公開及機密部分（僅作詢答（報告區分為公開及機密兩部分（採先公開後秘密方式（報告後接續詢答（詢答先秘密後公開（時間並記 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
6015.046 |
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6030.742 |
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因為今天會議開始比較晚（中間還有改開秘密會議的程序（詢答完必要處理結凍案（下午又有附屬單位預算的黨團協商（所以詢答時間略做縮短（也希望待會質詢的委員能夠盡量管控時間（本會委員6假2分鐘（ |
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6035.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
6049.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
非本會委員4分鐘10點半發言登記截止如有臨時提案請於11點前提出11點半左右是詢答情形進行處理現在請林部長上台就公開部分進行報告主席各位委員各位女士先生大家好很榮幸能夠再度來到 |
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6064.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
6079.151 |
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外交國防委員會向各位委員報告114年度本部主管預算案也利用這個機會拜託各位委員能夠大力支持本部的預算那在 |
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6080.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
6096.538 |
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主管預算包括公開及機密兩部分那機密預算另作報告請就本部主管預算公開的部分以下就施政的重點稅入稅出預算案編列情形即稅出預算案綜合說明三方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
6098.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
6116.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
簡述如下首先114年度本部施政的重點本部全力推動以價值外交為基礎並讓臺灣成為經濟日不落國為目標的一個總和外交的政策方向希望建立民主共同體、安全共同體及經貿共同體 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
6119.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
6133.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
提升鞏固與邦交國的關係深化與理念相近國家合作強化我國非政府組織的國際鏈結以善用國家的軟實力提升我國的形象開創價值外交的新時代 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
6134.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
6149.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
本部依據行政院114年度施政的方針（配合中層施政計畫及合定預算的額度（同時針對當前涉及情勢及未來發展需要（編定114年度施政重點如下（ |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
6151.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
6167.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
1、深化鞏固邦交關係,持續推動包含元首外交等我與友邦高層及重要官員之互訪,並善用我國優勢領域提勝在基礎建設、貿易及投資議題上的雙向合作,以深化與友邦關係。 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
6169.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
6188.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
第二、深化提升與我理念相近及友好國家關係。藉由邀訪、對話及交流持續強化與理念相近友好國家的關係。藉由我國的數位國力及印太戰略以數位新南向加強與印太地區友好國家的合作與交流。第三 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
6189.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
6195.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
擴大國際參與並積極做出貢獻,持續透過多元方式來爭取加入國際組織,並反制中國扭曲聯合國大會第2758號決議的論述,加強向國際社會說明,以爭取擴大我國國際參與的空間及正當性。 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
6209.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
6220.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
第四強化及擴大臺灣與全球產經鏈結運用我國的高科技、綠能、新興智慧科技等各項優勢來掐牽各項的雙邊協議強化各項對話機制加強與邦交國及理念相近國家實質合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
6228.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
6252.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
第五提升我國優質國際形象以民主和平繁榮為主軸將我國強項議題透過資源整合及計劃性國際傳播作為以提升整體國際宣傳的綜合效果升級我國的形象爭取國際有利的空間第六加強結合及整合民間與政府各部門的外交能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
6253.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
6281.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
推動成立跨部會經貿外交的專案小組並加強結合國內NGO的力量以擴展臺灣的國際空間。第七強化外交同仁跨領域專業與職能強化外交人員經貿與科技等多方面跨領域專業能力以配合國際趨勢能夠與時俱進。第八提升為民服務的效能與品質秉持依法行政追求效率為民服務等原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
6282.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
6301.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
優化申辦及自發護照作業品質（強化經濟文件證明服務的品質（海外疾難救助服務機制以及旅外安全宣導工作。（第二大部分就114年度本部主管稅錄及稅出預算案編列情形報告如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
6302.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
6310.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
首先本部主管稅務預算共編列41億4637萬9千元）包括罰款及賠償的收入135萬元）規會收入36億8348萬5千元）財產收入2960萬5千元）以及其他收入4億3193萬9千元） |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
6326.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
6343.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
第二點本部主管稅出的預算共編列有319億8178萬1千元之就本部領事事務局外交及國際事務學院分別報告如下首先本部公開稅出預算共編列284億6558萬5千元以下按業務計劃逐項二要說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
6350.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
6354.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
一、一般行政編列87億3,250萬、05萬3千元,較113年度增列3億5,416萬2千元,主要是調整待遇及本部市化系統,能夠汰換等經費。 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
6369.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
6386.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
第二、外交管理的業務編列了兩億五千七百六十三萬七千元,較一百一十三年度增列三千零九十一萬四千元,主要是以多元媒體管道辦理公眾溝通的業務及制播國情影片所需的經費。 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
6387.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
6392.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
第三、住外機構的業務編列35億3,396萬1千元較113年度增列了3億5,453萬8千元主要是住外單位管設的租金﹐房屋、建築、養護以及內外戶調等經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
6407.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
6411.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
第四國際會議及交流編列25億1716萬9千元較113年度增列1億7981萬5千元主要係高層出訪及訪兵接待所需資金費。第五國際合作及關懷 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
6426.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
6451.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
編列一百二十四億八千零八十九萬九千元,較一百一十三年度檢列七億七千一百九十三萬元,主要是檢列雙邊合作計劃等經費。第六,一般建築與設備,編列八億七千三百八十六萬六千元,其中包括鑄雪梨、丹士樹管設構置計劃八億三千一百四十九萬六千元, |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
6451.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
6452.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
臺灣住外機構館長坐車及公務車30輛及國內 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
6457.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
6464.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
公務車五輛經費4237萬元第一倍均編列7000萬元與113年度相同在領事事務局稅出預算方面共編列15億9117萬7千元各項計畫的編列情形簡要如下一般行政編列3億792萬2千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
6482.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
6503.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那麼第二領事事務的管理編列12億8175萬5000元那麼第一倍金編列150萬元與前一年相同那麼最後在外交與國際事務學院的稅出預算方面共編列了1億363萬2000元各計劃編列情況簡要如下一般行政編列 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
6510.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
6527.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
八千兩百九十萬元外交領事人員獎席編列一千八百五十七萬七千元一般建築及設備編列兩百零三萬元那地域費金編列十二萬五千元那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
6528.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
6556.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
以上以上這個本部主管稅出預算的綜合說明在凍結經費的原則下本部將持續與邦交國維繫邦誼提升與理念相近國家的實質關係爭取參與區域經濟整合未來將兼顧政府財政與外交需求持續推動員外工作以善盡臺灣的國際責任最後結語我國當前外交處境嚴峻推動對外 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
6557.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
6581.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
工作也面臨許多的變數外交部會全力推動總和外交以不斷踏實前進對區域及國際社會做出具體的貢獻以上說明如有不清楚或需要補充的部分再請各位委員先進多加指教也懇請各位委員全力支持本部各項施政以及預算非常的謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
6589.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
6594.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
公開報告結束接續以秘密會議進行機密報告請議事人員清場 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
7579.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
7583.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
現在補充介紹王定宇召委沈博洋委員林楚瑩委員羅美琳委員現在確認議事錄請問在場的委員對上次的會議議事錄有無遺漏、錯誤或需要更正之處議事錄確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
7610.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
7615.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
現在登記公開質詢的委員開始詢答請羅美玲委員上台質詢謝謝主席有請林部長請林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
7639.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
7661.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
部長早部長委員早是部長我們今天我們今天外交國防委員會的會議因為部長您早上一個很重要的這個行程所以演到10點才開始那外界都很好奇就是說部長您消失了這一個小時到底去了哪裡那部長這可以說明一下嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
7663.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
7687.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
跟委員報告今天早上因為在安排總統出訪的事宜因為在三天就要出訪因為剛好跟友邦聯繫還有相關的工作就是要在這個時間能夠確認所以呢跟委員會請假的一小時感謝委員的這個支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
7688.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
7716.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
是之前都外界都在想說我們這次出訪到底會不會過境到其他的友邦這個部分有確定嗎?我們這次出訪主要是太平洋的三個友邦包括馬紹爾群島、土瓦魯和帛琉共和國那這個部分已經有對外正式的宣布那這個相關的行程的安排因為我們是以安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
7718.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
7729.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
尊嚴、便利和舒適這四項原則來進行安排那寫者的部分你們還會再透露嗎?今天下午據說有個記者會是不是?下午國安會 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
7735.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
7753.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
主要關於出訪的行程主要就是府方那邊在試食的時候會再對外說明進一步的資訊所以還要再進一步說明就對了比較細節的部分是不是對所以現在不方便透露 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
7754.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
7767.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
對就是在由總統府方面會針對出訪事情相關的這些就是基於這四大原則之下安排的交通還有相關的這個行程 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
7773.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
7798.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
本期就要進入到今天我想要問的這個主題像昨天、前天中國的海警船已經連續兩天侵擾了我國的金門水域那像金門這個陷阱制水域其實在1992年其實我們國防部就有依據兩個人民條例發射到現在可是中國在1996年的時候首度公布了這個領海基線把我們金門馬祖都列入他們的領海基線裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
7800.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
7825.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
可是經過金門214事件之後中國國台辦公開否認金門禁縣制水域的存在甚至最近我們看到有很多的侵擾的行為比如說不斷的侵入我們的海域甚至到11月26日為止我們看到海巡署有提到說今年已經累計到54次 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
7826.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
7829.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
這些種種的侵擾行為當然就是中國意圖揭示我國對於金門水域的管轄權甚至建立中國管轄執法的事實以支撐中國宣稱擁有金門水域主權的訴求 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
7841.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
7863.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
所以我方在這個法律敘事戰跟中國要如何來抗衡我們所擔心的是中國會不會未來將這個模式複製到我國其他的離島周邊的海域甚至是臺灣本島的這個海域那目前我們看到這個中國海警的侵擾海巡署他都有這個應處的這個措施來維護我國海域安全跟主權 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
7864.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
7864.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
請問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
7878.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
7895.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
謝謝委員有關於中國在特別是今年出總統大選後展開了一系列的混合戰特別是灰色地帶的作戰那造成新常態 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
7896.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
7920.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
這裏面包括對於我們在海峽中線或者是我們的臨階區涉及到的這些像金門附近的禁縣制水域有侵擾有關於這方面海巡署也有因應包括驅離還有監控國防部也根據相關的法令 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
7921.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
7947.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
就是我們根據兩岸關係條例公告的限制禁止水域範圍那麼來作為就是我們就是依法這個行政的一個依據那這個部分在發生一些衝突事件之後也呢就是按照這個我們的相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
7948.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
7965.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
作業準則來辦理那在國際上呢我們對於這樣的現象就是中共採取所謂的新常態就是所謂的new normal那事實上已經在不管是正式的演習那甚至是有些勤勞行為那 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
7967.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
7983.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
我是把它歸納為其實是他們的三戰這個是法律戰那這個輿論戰還有這個心理戰那這些都發動之後他以這個準時軍事甚至是是軍事的行為進行這一個包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
7987.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
7988.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
對於這些新的發展我們在國際宣傳上就是認為說他們在為做武力犯台 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
8007.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
8013.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
做準備（包括像2758號（這個有關聯合國的決議（這把臺海內海化（把臺灣內政化（這些都是相關性（所以為什麼我們最近得到國際上（對我們很多的聲援（包括對聯大2758號決議（中共的曲解（ |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
8027.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
8043.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
各個包括歐洲議會還有一些國家的國會都通過有我的一個決議也是因為要透過這個跟理念相近國家的一個合作包括所謂的航行自由權以這個具體行動去說明台海是一個自由航行是一個國際的公海 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
8053.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
8066.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
其他當然我們的因應措施在第一線的以海巡署他們針對金門地區這個水域上面的這些涉及到的爭端都有所因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
8068.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
8069.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
法律戰、輿論戰、心理戰 法律戰、議論戰、心理戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
8087.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
8088.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
政府總預算案 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
8101.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
8126.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
那其實以這個中共的以像這個他的海警法第三次的一個修訂公佈包括對台獨所謂的懲罰的這個22條其實這個都包括剛剛講的這個聯合國大會27582決議其實這些都是以這個所謂的混合戰就是說灰色地帶的作戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
8126.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
8155.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
我們了解,剛才部長您所提的都是了解只是說在國際上到底承不承認這個部分我們就是以具體情報比如自由航行來去說明就是說我們是反對對方是沒錯,因為我剛才有最後一個問題就是說如果情勢持續上升的話我們有沒有辦法提出這個國際仲裁的可能因為基本限制水域跟國際的這個海洋法的內國水域這個是不太一樣所以我們在想說而且我們也不是聯合國海洋公約的這個締約國 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
8156.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
8157.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
臺灣國際政策部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
8177.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
8177.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
8195.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
8196.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
我們也加強我們在不管是國防或新防上的這個準備的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
8223.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
8224.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
主席好麻煩請部長請您部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
8257.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
8274.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
部長早部長今天剛才若文有提到我們賴總統接下來要出訪的這個部分那想請教一下這一次的出訪的國家主要是選擇在太平洋而非中南美的主要原因是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
8276.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
8295.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
我們太平洋有三個邦交國包括馬紹群島、土瓦魯跟帛琉都有來參加我們賴總統的520的就職典禮也有邀請他能夠去訪問另外就是我們國家元首對這個地區的訪問 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
8297.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
8319.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
上一次也已經是五年前了蔡總統時候是2019年所以呢基於這個不管固邦、隆邦我們希望說能夠在比較短的時間內的一個安排就是以太平洋這個我們的三個邦交國為元首出訪第一次的一個訪問國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
8322.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
8341.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
那部長其實我們國家的元首他出訪那有幾個重要的意義那第一個當然是鞏固我們的邦交但第二個部分就是我們常常看到我們元首會出境的時候也會有過境的外交那想請教一下這一次的過境點大概有可能會是在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
8343.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
8362.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
我們不管是出訪或過境都秉持四大原則那這次在太平洋方面我們當然是安全那這個尊嚴那便利然後舒適大概順序我把它做了一點調整這叫是這地方的交通運輸 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
8364.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
8378.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
還有整個的情況是有比較大的限制性我們就是必須怎麼這樣在同時一次能夠訪問三個國家做有效的安排 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
8379.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
8389.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
至於說相關的出訪或有過境的安排等等總統府會再進一步對外有說明再訪問對象國家就是這三國其他的部分會再做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
8395.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
8406.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
好 那我們就等待這個總統府方的正式說明但是在這個出訪的過程中有沒有掌握到中共會不會什麼樣的干擾比方說在這個趁總統在訪問的時候會不會做出什麼小動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
8410.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
8427.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
是,我們不管國安會或相關的部會單位都有做一些對於情勢的分析那也跟我們的友邦這個密切的聯繫跟必要收的因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
8428.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
8446.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
所以中共在過去幾次我們元首出訪的時候的作為我們也都有納入這一次來做評估所以這個是我們國安單位都有做好妥善的這個準備跟因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
8447.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
8473.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
最後就是說有傳出中共會趁賴總統出訪的時候會有發動相關的軍演甚至是聯合利益界C有掌握這樣的情勢嗎?有這樣的可能性嗎?這個都不能排除這是可能的劇本之一那當然現在的整個國際情勢也是很多的變數我想中共方面也應該都會去就是說評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
8475.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
8476.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
8499.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
8515.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
有這些包括軍演或是這些比較offensive比較破壞這個海海和平跟穩定的行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
8516.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
8527.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
謝謝部長我最後再補充問一題為什麼會選擇在拜登政府的時期做出訪那不是在新政府的時候出訪有什麼特殊的考量嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
8529.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
8552.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
我們有機會我們就會安排出發那當然因為先前我想各方面的情勢啊我們的評估以及友邦的邀請的時間那就是在這個就是就是今年的年底那我們也是要配合對方的行程那也有一些國家也在選舉包括像帛琉他們總統大選也剛選完 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
8554.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
8582.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
那當然周邊國家也有很多各方面他們不管是選舉或者是說在政府交接期間但是我們還是依照我們的往例就是安排出法會彼此溝通來做好對於可能中共的一些激烈的反應因應的做這些準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
8583.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
8602.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
謝謝部長,部長再來就是要提到我們的外交資源的這個配置那今天我剛剛看這些預算書我們大概是有320億的稅出其中有120多億是員外那25億是在做國際會議的部分那部長剛從歐洲回來這次是去幾個國家? |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
8603.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
8630.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
去比利時、立陶宛跟波蘭三個國家三個國家那我認為我們接下來我們國家面臨的挑戰大概是主要是在印太為主那印太戰略裡面幾個比較重要的參與的國家當然是我們第一島鏈包含這個菲律賓、日本那甚至是韓國還有一些這些南海所在的區域的這些幾個聲索國都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
8631.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
8652.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
當然還有一個很重要的一個大國擁有核子武器的大國是印度那這些國家對我們來講他是生存上面的必需品就是說對我們來說這些國家跟我們是唇齒相依的如果我們少了美國這樣子的夥伴這種跨太平洋的夥伴的支持的話我們在安全上面的保障就會受到影響在外交上面的保障也會受到影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
8652.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
8675.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
所以我們當講到外交資源的配置的時候我很重視一點就是說我們會不會把所有的資源過度的放在幾個國家跟我國的直接利害沒有直接相關的國家那我沒有在說立陶宛跟我們的利害沒有相關但是我必須要講說立陶宛跟我們的價值確實是裡面相近但是對我國的利益它不是絕對的必要性 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
8675.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
8697.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
所以我們的資源包含會議上面的資源包含我們投入上面的資源跟時間本來就要做有效的配置那比方說歐洲各個國家我最近看到包含我們的國安委秘書長包含這個部長花很多時間在我們中東歐國家或者是在丹麥啊這些裡面相近的國家我都可以肯定但我還是要提醒跟我們生存 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
8698.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
8698.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
外交部副市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
8715.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
8732.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
不僅只是歐洲國家而已仔細看它在太平洋的這個或者是在這個印太地區它其實都有海外的屬地所以當我們跟歐洲在討論到我們的交流的時候我們必須要思考說這些國家怎麼樣可以跟我們來進行更完整的這個合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
8733.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
8760.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
我記得法國是有7年的建軍計劃這個法國的戰略裡面包括他們有希望說有自由可以自由航行在台海上面他也會直接提出他們的資源所以過去我們跟法國之間不管是在軍事安全上面的合作在外交上面的合作甚至他們直接提到台灣而且是直接支持台灣這是我們必須要重視的一個大過所以我希望未來外交部的資源我們在出訪的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
8762.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
8788.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
時間有限那資源也有限那我們要選擇對的地方來增加我們的海洋治理區域安全還有太空海域的港資能力那在歐洲裡面有幾個國家有這樣子的能力的我們當然可以加強交往但是有一些可能沒有跟我們直接利害相關儘管說跟我們價值相仿但或許包含部長在內包含我們的國安首長在內要有效配置自己的時間跟資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
8791.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
8805.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
法國的七年建軍法還有在太平洋地區有很多屬地。自由航行法國也是主力主要的國家。另外其實包括英國他們的五眼聯盟或者是所謂的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
8808.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
8808.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
8829.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
8829.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
委員提到的第一島鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
8845.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
8845.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
謝謝陳冠廷委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
8871.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
8875.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
部長請回接下來我們請王定宇、趙偉上台質詢謝謝趙偉,麻煩林佳龍部長請林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
8899.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
8918.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
謝謝委員所以早上你在進行我們賴清德總統三天後出訪的一些行程安排那本席這邊就有關這個出訪有些問題要就教於您那我要特別提醒外交部當你看日本石破茂總理他改選之後日本的媒體也跑出一堆 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
8918.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
8920.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
有關賴總統出訪南太平洋友邦 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
8944.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
8954.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
路透社報導說中共可能會在臺灣臨近地區發動軍演就這一題我要先提醒外交部中國會不會發動軍演根本不是新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
8957.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
8957.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
中共的軍事騷擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
8983.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
9011.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
不管對第一島鏈國家對菲律賓、對台灣、對日韓那是幾年經常性存在的只是說他這一次會不會用別種形式政治意涵的透露那目前就我們國家外交部就國家發言人那對於賴總統出訪期間印太地區第一島鏈的和平穩定以及中共的軍事力量展現我們國家立場是什麼我們就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
9013.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
9040.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
因為中共的威脅是如同委員講的其實是一直在而且不斷在加壓中那是構成了新常態所以我們當然跟友好國家我們會彼此彼此我們平常情報交換啊友好國家什麼這個都會我的意思說如果中共在我們元首民選總統出訪是喜事對全世界來講這只有增加互動和平繁榮以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
9041.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
9060.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
沒有壞處的可是有個流氓國家用這個來聲勢的時候到時候我們國家外交部會不會正式對外發表聲明如果有的話我們一定是會發表聲明那最主要是說我們要讓國人瞭解因為中共這也是認知作戰的一部分不管從520到雙10那他這個會不會有延轉 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
9066.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
9073.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
轉戰那是另外一件事情我們必須要從他的這些作為當中去了解那另外一個就是說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
9077.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
9087.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
因為這一次如果中國把他的軍事行動我再強調一次他平常就有他把他軍事行動把他標記成一個政治的口號他是有他的目的比方說美國的政權正在交替 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
9104.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
9127.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
日本的內閣也剛組成南側的菲律賓內部現在也有一些問題所以他這個動作上我是希望我們外交部做好一些發言的準備比方說而且橫向連線很重要像就我們像國防部瞭解起來目前沒有看到中共部分有軍力調動的情形所以演習可能就是演習所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
9128.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
9152.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
誇大他的效果搞不好也中他計小看他也沒必要就是料敵從寬確實如委員所講像以戰備警巡他幾乎每週都有他現在只是透過宣傳怎麼樣去做成一種認知作戰就好像沈伯陽每一天會從301走過去一樣然後他取個名字叫做沈伯陽出巡一樣他只是用那個名詞去強調一件事情他一直是在那裡啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
9153.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
9181.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
這個藉什麼委員的名字用一下好我這一題先到這裡打住我要詢問一下我們賴總統出訪的問題第一個會不會在我們現在知道出訪三個友邦那可能會過境夏威夷除了這個已知以外有沒有未知的國家可能會去訪問可是這次還是不能講就不要講我的意思說過境美國南泰三盟邦這四個地方我們大概知道了有沒有這四個已知以外的未知 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
9183.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
9197.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
沒有這一次沒有第二個這一次會過境夏威夷吧這個總統府方面會就是對外統一說明那如果會過境啊因為過境對我們來講已經不是突破了 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
9199.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
9227.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
假設會過境的話就是我是說四大原則嘛安全、尊嚴、便利跟舒適對我們會以這個方向來做我們想要關切的是外交動作比方說到夏威夷的話能不能到我們的住處看一下你點頭你現在是說會這裡的建議啦我的建議第二個我們有一個聯兵營在夏威夷受訓能不能去鼓勵我們關兵一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
9229.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
9248.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
這也是你的看法都很寶貴所以實現的就是我算得很準而已好那再來除了一些智庫參眾議員以外那AIT理事主席通常例行會除非他有事有沒有會有一些行政層級的訪兵 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
9250.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
9272.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
因為這個有關過境的事宜如果是有安排是什麼樣的內容我想這個都涉及到雙邊也涉及到總統府他們會針對事實的對外說明在蔡英文總統任內過境其實跟以往的過境已經不太一樣有點像入境訪問了 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
9274.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
9299.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
記者跟總統不用分開飯店,記者可以讀麥克風,可以演講,賴總統這個規格不會減少吧?就是我剛剛提到的這些過去的慣例還有基於這些出訪或過境的原則,都是……簡單講,從蔡英文總統到賴清德總統,我們過境美國的規格不會減少、不會降低嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
9300.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
9328.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
沒有什麼這個會我們台美關係就是非常的如磐石般的堅定啊對就是說其實我們國際外交在過去這8年其實有相當大的突破尤其去Denver那一次所以我是希望這一次如果在國際上有些展現比方說去代表處去看自己的代表處是有意義的比方說去慰勞我們受訓的官兵這也有意義一個是外交一個是安全這個我期待後續的消息接下來我在 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
9329.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
9343.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
問一下CPTPP的消息這個是PoliticalPolitical報了一個消息我覺得蠻特別第一個他說這一次的CPTPP的會議會把台灣的陸會案因為中國因素暫割 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
9346.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
9367.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
那就外交部因為你們是負責這個推動這個的主責單位目前有這個情形嗎?最近當然因為加拿大做輪值主席國那各會員在開會那就涉及到有沒有新要申請加入的國家可以列入工作小組那一個工作小組成立之後才會進行詳細內容的這個協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
9371.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
9393.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
那個英國就是送件之後很快速成立工作小組他現在已經完成陸會了嘛現在12國了我的意思是說台灣申請陸會也相當時間了有沒有如同這個political這一個其實這個媒體也算大媒體了他報導的說因為中國因素台灣陸會這一次戰歌不是永遠戰歌他說這一次會議就不處理有沒有這個現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
9394.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
9420.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
對因為他還沒有成立工作小組不管是臺灣或中國那即使是外面報導的其他國家也要先成立工作小組那現在就是有奧克蘭三原則臺灣是都很符合第一個是高標準第二個沒有不良的貿易的這個記錄奧克蘭三原第三點是共識決但共識決我們現在經過加拿大今年輪主席國的一個解釋其實要促進效率而不能做變成在擋別人 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
9420.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
9441.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
所以這一個解釋是我覺得對台灣來講也就是說共識是應該你內容符合之後最後大家來決而不是說要不要成立工作小組是要全體同意而且現在有一個就是所謂的pre-consultation就是這個在工作小組之前也可以開始展開雙邊之商我們已經展開了台灣有開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
9446.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
9465.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
跟一些對象國家就是會員國我們是有一些諮商沒有因為他就是開一個有一個燈然後我們可以跟對方開始去溝通但是還沒有成立正式的工作小組還沒有成立所以這一次的會議大概也不會成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
9467.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
9480.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
在開會當中這兩天還不確定嗎今天明天我們還沒有成立工作小組但這一次的CPTPP的會會不會讓台灣成立工作小組未知但是允許pre consultation就是預先協商我們現在12國跟幾國進行預商呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
9484.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
9491.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
奧克蘭三原則就是遵守貿易規範的良好紀錄台灣OK了我們立法院在上一屆會期也完成修法我們已經符合高標準的貿易這個規範了我們現在只差一個叫做成員國的共識決 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
9511.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
9540.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
這個共識決是要大家同意或者沒有人反對這又不一樣喔沒有錯大家同意跟沒有人反對這種consensus他的mega就很多了所以反對的人要說理由啦你不能說所以我要提的就是說如果因為中國因素被暫割這個絕對是不對的因為中國永遠無法那個無法符合那個高標準貿易規範如果中國永遠無法達到那個規範變成綁架台灣把他帶進CPTPP這也不行那 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
9541.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
9569.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
擋住台灣不能參加更不行所以中國因素這是一個貿易團體貿易組織應該就每一個要參加的會員成員國去審視他的條件如果錯誤的把它跟中國因素綁在一起的話那我們台灣可能你要等到中國達標那一天不知道哪一年哪一月了那我最後只請問一個問題根據這一個媒體的報導說馬來西亞跟新加坡有意見這跟我去訪問聽起來的感覺不太一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
9570.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
9594.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
我跟委員說明其實沒有人反對台灣現在只是說你所謂共識決要不要台灣去獲得所謂百分之百現在11加1嘛那個英國是今年加入就是說他這個加拿大做人質主席國對奧克蘭三原則的解釋是讓台灣也可以諮商以外呢你反對的國家你要獎勵理由比如說如果那個反對我們的國家自由貿易的程度比台灣還低 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
9595.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
9597.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
我剛才問的問題你沒有回答就是馬來西亞跟新加坡有意見嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
9625.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
9643.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
我沒有得到這樣的訊息說他們是不贊成因為我從新加坡那邊看起來其實新加坡跟台灣的經貿還算蠻正常的兩國還有FTA他怎麼有意見那馬來西亞當然是另外一回事啦我跟委員報告其實目前我們有稍微諮商過的都是正面的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
9643.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
9644.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
接下來我們請林楚英委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
9679.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
9682.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
謝謝主席主席有請林部長請林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
9690.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
9706.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
部長早知道您即將要陪賴總統出訪不過因為隨著這個出訪之前所許多的這個包括被帶風向的操作跟操弄剛剛我延續王定宇委員所提到的很多的這個以美論的聲音就會出來那麼其中當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
9709.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
9729.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
有關於這次出訪我們主要是去南泰國家嘛那麼很多的訊息在之前聽到說總統要去南泰之後以美論就開始出來了就說或是依賴論就講說啊怎麼沒有過境這個美國的本土因為現在媒體所曝光出來的地點可能是夏威夷或是其他地區但是如果我們攤開這個時間表以及地圖來看的話就會發現說 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
9735.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
9758.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
從台灣出發到南泰國家你要特別繞到美國我為什麼講特別繞到美國因為那個真的就是到另外一個方向跟方位去了所以我就想問這個到底是地理不好還是長大了以後方向感不好如果我們真的沒有到美國本土只是過境這個所謂的其他的這個所謂美國境外像夏威夷這個地方這個可以去發酵以美論嗎這個部長怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
9762.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
9774.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
其實原美論是沒有必要啦我們跟美國的關係不只是說台灣關係法這些基礎最主要是說這些年是跨黨派而且跨行政立法都很跟台灣都很友好 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
9777.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
9793.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
出訪就是基本上我們是有一個對方國家的邀請或有一些重大的這個節慶或者是說就職典禮那以我們今年來講就是南泰這三個國家在 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
9794.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
9797.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
而且算是鞏固邦誼再加上其實本席也特別整理了如果是以上次的話有總統出訪南泰地區也是2019年了也就是小英總統在任的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
9818.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
9835.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
所以說這一次包括像我們帛琉的這個會數人他在11月連任成功就像您所說的從這個出發啟程到馬紹爾、土瓦魯再到帛琉其實這個路線就是很順的那麼我們當然也希望這一次的出訪能夠成功對我們的邦誼能夠更鞏固 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
9838.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
9849.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
不過呢有一個最新的訊息呢是就像我剛剛提到的這個以美論現在就算我們沒有以美但是對於川普現在上台之後包括他現在任用了一個所謂的關稅大將來擔任他的相關的這個內閣成員 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
9854.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
9858.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
就有CNN最新今天早上更新的是說川普可能透過保護主義然後開始增加他的關稅那麼其中他會對他的貿易前十大的這些所謂國家來出手那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
9871.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
9874.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
根據CNN的報告台灣也在這前十大之中那麼當然這個是屬於貿易的問題可能問經濟部會更適合可是某種程度這是不是也是台美之間在外交上必須關注的部分部長你怎麼來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
9888.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
9912.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
會不會接下來因為川普任用了這個他的關稅大將格里爾那麼再加上CNN的報導被台灣媒體引用了那產業界就會擔心囉目前台灣是屬於對美貿易的第六名部長您看其實台美的經貿的關係是建立在包括法治或者是透明的基礎上那 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
9915.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
9931.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
這個關稅啦或者是相關的這些貿易的逆差本來就是在國家之間啦就是它的一個政策的工具那我們怎麼去增加因為貿易逆差很大我們怎麼增加對美國的投資這個是再就採購 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
9932.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
9944.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
所以這些本來就是我們應該要做的方向所以這個大概跟川普總統商量之後更重視這方面那我們當然會在政策上我們有一些工具也會來朝這方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
9949.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
9970.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
有進一步的機會來跟美方來做溝通因為就像今天媒體報導的嘛因為這個賴總統要到南泰出訪聯合利建C也要出來了但是許多的相關的軍事或外交專家都認為其實聯合利建C對準的恐怕不只是台灣更是對美國來立威甚至對美國來展示軍事的肌肉 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
9971.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
9995.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
所以對於現在美國他所選取的內閣都是所謂的抗中大將那麼如果是站在抗中的立場來講台灣絕對是美國非常重要的一個夥伴就是如同您說的如果讓美國再次強大的話台灣不能置身事外而且台灣必須是夥伴那這個部分外交部有沒有機會跟現在川普的新內閣來針對我們所關心的安全或經貿問題來做相關的這個溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
9998.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
10016.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
是有溝通我想跨黨派的那最主要是說其實我們每一次的元首出訪中共都會有一些動作那是輕重的問題那在這一個美國政府交接的期間當然北京他也必須要考慮他任何的動作的弦外之音 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
10018.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
10041.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
因為川普現在有他的一個中國政策的方向包括提高關稅甚至在選舉期間講了很重的話如果他們中共侵台的話他要轟炸北京就是說我想在這一個都不確定的階段這個充滿了各種的一個不確定那大家都是很謹慎可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
10042.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
10061.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
我是我們的判斷是中共還是會有動作只是說這個什麼樣的方式比如說他們每週也差不多都有這個所謂戰備警巡那只要再加強一下那就是認知作戰那有時候是基於國內的消費有時候是真的是有對台灣我們不能排除他遊訓轉戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
10062.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
10082.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
因為要看到部隊集結所以我們都會做各種的情境的想定跟因應那另外我想補充剛剛回答這個委員有一關我們總統出訪南泰三國最主要是這三個國家除了來我們台灣參加就職典禮或是雙十國慶以外他們都是今年選上的 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
10083.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
10106.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
（包括馬紹爾群島（海尼總統（還有土瓦魯的總理（以及柏油的總統（所以其實今年都是一個新的開始（所以我們也認為一次能夠就三個藍太友邦做出訪的對象（那現在主題也是跟我們現在的龍邦政策有關（所以說繁榮藍島智慧永續 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
10107.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
10135.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
好,但是呢本席也要稍微來問一下就是我們有關於這個大家現在非常關注的是有關於聽台灣的部分那麼加強這個所謂反對2758號決議文我想這一次因為我們在十二強打上了冠軍之後聽台灣成為這個不只是團結台灣啦甚至於是全球非常矚目的這個關鍵字喔那麼我們在有關於國際組織2025年我們編列了三億六千九百 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
10136.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
10142.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
44萬元的經費那麼在這些經費的運用上面有沒有機會讓聽台灣能夠更響亮我想現在講台灣或講聽台灣是一個共通的語言那在這裡的話外交部針對在聯合國或者是其他國際組織的經費跟運用上面有沒有想要乘勝追擊尤其是在您所提到的價值外交的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
10162.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
10184.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
確實這一次我想運動選手他在得到冠軍的時候自發的去呈現就是台灣因為這是很自然的而且很中性的名稱那我們在國際上也是如此包括我們最近國際組織包括參加聯合國我們用chip in with Taiwan和台灣一起拼那這個過去也常用台灣can help |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
10185.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
10202.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
那是我覺得聽台灣如果說大家願意加入台灣做一個價值同盟這樣的一個支持我覺得很多人國際的友人或組織我想這個也是我們很歡迎的所以本席只是利用質詢也特別提醒就是我們既然是預算會期那麼在這個國際組織的國際參與當中有做一些預算的編列那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
10208.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
10209.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
馬文君委員上台諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
10239.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
10243.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
謝謝主席麻煩請林部長請林部長部長早委員好部長剛剛您在來委員會之前有先進了總統府嘛那在建了高層以後對於台灣加入CPTPP被擱置的這個問題是不是有討論在剛剛 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
10271.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
10288.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
針對臺灣爭取加入CPT一直都有在推動也有在跟府院報告那現在行政院總談判代表楊振尼政委他也都在協調跨部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
10289.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
10300.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
部長我知道我現在是說因為這個才剛出現的新聞那在您來之前因為是重要的會議那也是例行性的可是這個議題有沒有被討論然後討論了什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
10306.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
10334.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
最主要是針對出訪相關的安排所以CPTPP被擱置的這部分你們聯談我們另外有討論在行政院的層次所以今天沒有談我們談判總代表還有我們跨部會都有針對這兩天密切注意這個裡面就涉及到不是我們已經確定被擱置了嗎我們就事論事就是所謂擱置我跟委員報所謂擱置不是他是要成立工作小組才能夠進入具體的協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
10335.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
10356.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
包括 雙邊那現在也可以展開就是前協商的協商我想大家都已經在這些事務上面尤其在外交事務上我相信你也非常熟悉所以我們不用再去講這些細節現在出來的消息包括主辦的加拿大其實他們也都提出這樣子還有所有的成員國 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
10358.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
10379.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
其實都已經有提到這樣就是說我們在這一次這個案子其實我們本來我們也是滿懷希望因為我們之前要去之前也是說加拿大這一次應該由他們來在他那裡主辦的話對我們是有史以來可能最友善最有利的一個條件可是他現在被擱置其實這就是事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
10381.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
10393.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
我們現在想要知道的是我們應該要怎麼做因為剛剛如果CPTPP被擱置這樣的問題因為包括顯然我不知道您就部長的回答是我們剛剛是沒有談這個問題是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
10395.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
10400.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
我跟委員報告因為就說沒有擱置這個問題是因為他如果我們去申請不管先後他要成立工作小組部長我們沒有要在這裡討論這個因為這個不是我們這裡可以決定的我現在要知道的是當我們目前至少到目前你說他還在開到目前為止我們是被擱置的狀況我們在剛剛在府院在大家討論的時候有沒有提到我們應該要怎麼去因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
10425.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
10441.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
這個部分有沒有剛剛我到府內沒有討論CPTPP這是行政院總談判代表跨部會的我們都只有一個群組在進行那這個是沒有討論的我跟委員講齁我們去申請他必須要成立工作小組然後現在開放 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
10442.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
10445.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
部長這個我們知道這個我們知道我們現在只看結果齁現在目前我們得到訊息是這樣如果說剛剛我們本來以為這個是非常重要的因為每次在審預算或者在對國人提到CPTPP的時候這個對於我們面對因為CPTPP所有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
10463.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
10467.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
這個成員組織其實他已經占了所有全球經濟的15%而且是我們很重要的一個機會因為我們沒有機會參加其他的這些貿易組織不容易所以我們把機會放或者希望都放在這裡那你現在如果說已經面臨到說這個案子被擱置 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
10483.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
10500.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
我們還沒有在這麼重要的一個會議上面做討論我不知道為什麼你要編這麼高額的預算因為顯然他不被重視或不重要是這樣嗎我跟委員講不是被擱置我要清楚的說明他是要我們目前接觸的對象國家都是支持的 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
10501.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
10509.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
只是他必須要成立工作小組這一步那因為生前奧克蘭三原則之後加拿大有一個解釋讓我們可以成立pre consultation部長我們現在收到的訊息包括外媒包括我們自己國內的媒體就是這麼說那你要去講工作小組那到最後如果沒有你要怎麼說我們現在要講的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
10524.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
10527.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
蔡前總統曾經形容加入CPTPP是台灣邁向全球自由貿易關鍵的一步如果這個是你們剛剛你不好在這裡說你們剛剛有討論或者你們根本連討論都沒有我認為其實讓國人已經有這樣子的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
10545.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
10548.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
我希望委員能夠來瞭解問題啦我知道問題啊你的問題啊問題是美國本來是有的啊他是退掉了嘛先CPTPP大家已經知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
10573.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
10580.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
我知道美國是TPP現在因為他退出才是由日本下去他們做這樣的主導你要去講這個部分顯然你怕面對問題因為如果另外具外媒的消息台灣對報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
10594.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
10599.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
我希望你們尊重我們這樣子的我們一直很希望你可以就這個問題來回答你剛剛回答是回答什麼你不要留那麼多錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
10609.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
10614.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
中國一直都會是一個問題台灣跟中國是因為政治的議題然後就被擱置了中國不會消失所以所以外媒就是這麼說那你去跟外媒說你不用跟我說我們看到的不是這樣那你的結果你的什麼資訊你現在就是有被討論嗎你有被討論嗎你有被討論嗎如果這一次如果我們沒有被納入討論我們甚至還是被擱置你要不要下台 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
10638.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
10641.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
委員你誤會了問題我幫你說明我不是誤會問題我現在在理解問題你今天如果你當一個外交部長然後只是會宣傳你到立陶宛去或者帶了這樣的一個歐洲像我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
10654.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
10659.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
你到立法院去然後我們再問這個問題CPTPP現在已經要審預算的一個階段如果你用這樣的態度我覺得你已經在敷衍我們你比較急一點喔我沒有急阿我剛剛是很溫和的問 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
10673.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
10692.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
這是因為你一直在輕忽我們的問題沒有我是很誠懇我做過立委我知道我真的很想跟委員對話那你可以講啊好現在讓你講就是說他有一個程序要成立工作小組我們現在爭取大部分的國家我們接觸都支持沒有反對所以有一些報導是錯誤的 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
10693.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
10699.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
來個報導是錯誤的來個報導是錯誤的就是所謂的被擱置現在加拿大今年做主...加拿大有討論這個案子嗎我跟委員說明加拿大今年有一個解釋五月的時候做出來的就是說在成立正式工作小組之間也可以做諮商所以我們台灣現在跟有一半的國家都諮商他們都支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
10715.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
10742.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
新加坡跟馬來西亞有沒有支持?新加坡跟馬來西亞你不是跟他做諮商嗎?你現在又不能聽他講那諮商的結果你告訴我們諮商的結果他們沒有反對阿有沒有支持阿?我們要支持我們不是要沒有反對他們有沒有支持?他們有沒有支持?反對者要提理由因為他們都沒有理由所以沒有對台灣反對他們有沒有支持? |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
10743.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
10767.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
所以支持是要成立工作小組這件事情要在大會裡面去決定那你覺得為什麼他們這一次成立工作小組如果有政治的干擾也可以做支柵為什麼這一次哥斯大力加因為就加拿大的說法他們說目前準備最充分的其實就是台灣跟哥斯大力加可是哥斯大力加已經被同意了那你覺得最大的原因是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
10767.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
10775.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
其實齁 都被同意啦阿只是我們要成立工作小組阿沒有人反對台灣參加他要成立工作小組這件事情成立工作小組去審查是代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
10786.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
10808.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
哥斯大力家可不可以參加因為他就這幾個嘛都可以申請啦阿要成立工作小組才能審查啦哥斯大力家可不可以參加都有資格去申請啦他可以參加嗎這一次到目前為止就你得到的資訊有沒有因為我們有派人在CPTPP我們有派人在CPTPP哥斯大力家有沒有被同意了 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
10809.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
10819.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
委員現在是進行程序性還沒有進到實時審查至少目前他們已經有被討論他是不是已經有基本上有被同意因為所有的都有共識是不是是不是啊如果委員給我一分鐘我給你全世界 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
10823.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
10832.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
你不用給我全世界你只要給台灣人有機會進入CPTPP這個是有期待的目的可以達成可是現在顯然聽你講話我們沒有辦法做這樣的期待原來其實我跟你的 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
10840.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
10841.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
因為你就是做外交部長你本來就要面對問題我現在講的是我們現在同時有兩個 包括中國 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
10861.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
10866.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
包括我們台灣,它現在就是因為台灣跟中國已經有降低的問題,所以我們用擱置,這種寒冷已經是已經存在的問題,你也都不敢回答,這樣你就沒辦法繼續處理這些事情。 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
10878.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
10886.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
可是到底人家已經有達到這樣我們台灣跟他是一樣的程度喔我們也是準備的非常充分可是我們沒有的原因是因為政治的問題所以你必須要面對問題你是新上任的我們本來期待你有一個新的作為然後可以好好的做可是顯然也不是那一分鐘麻煩你用書面給大家交代你不用給我全世界麻煩你給台灣人更大的期待跟機會謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
10905.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
10906.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
接下來請林益君委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
10937.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
10940.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
中美洲銀行成立的目的是不是為協助中美洲地區的區域整合及經濟上面的發展?對 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
10965.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
10992.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
所以其實我們在那上面有看到他有跟臺灣企業公司有一些連結所以各式的基礎工程都是可以看到臺灣團隊的身影包括工隊工部門還有是工隊師部門之間都是有一些連結而且日益都是提升了而我國就是在114年度有編列外交部的預算書中有深化參與中美洲銀行列在第五目的國際合作及關懷向 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
10994.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
11014.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
有一個加強雙邊及多邊合作的對外的捐助2億3900多萬元本席在現在有幾個問題想要請教部長第一個就是請問台灣現在對中美洲開發銀行總認股的金額是多少還有實際已經繳付的股款還有持股的比例是多少呢來我請同仁我們現在的占比跟數字來說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
11021.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
11049.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
報告委員,我們現在佔的股數的比例是11.3%,我們現在是它最大的持股成員國,就是區域外的持股會員國。所以我們現在就是台灣是現在中美洲開發銀行最大的持股成員國,是不是?對。好,那部長我想請問一下,你是否了解中美洲開發銀行在我國已經發行了多少的金額的債券呢?詳細的數字來,我請同仁說明一下。是報告委員,大概是3億左右。 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
11051.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
11054.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
那他在202121年的時候是不是在臺北101大樓還設立了辦事處? |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
11058.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
11062.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
那外交部在114年編列有關中美洲開發銀行的兩億三千九百多萬元的預算是準備用在哪裡呢?而且預算書上面沒有明確的說明也沒有說明這些用途而且還留下為什麼呢?然後我還有請問部長除了這些入股金以外據外傳外交部還要再另外援助中美洲開發銀行的金額超過兩億美元 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
11085.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
11088.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
是否屬實?請部長誠實回答,不要欺騙國會。 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
11096.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
11115.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
報告委員我們是跟中美洲銀行從2021年起我們成立了一個雙邊基金那每年是提供100萬美元主要是就是說協助我們在中美洲地區的友邦目前是瓜地馬拉跟貝里斯他們就透過中美洲銀行我們來增進雙邊關係另外協助他們的經濟發展跟永續 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
11115.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
11116.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
國際反貪腐組織繼2022年起結合了包括美國哥倫比亞 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
11133.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
11139.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
大學與中美洲的記者聯盟的整個團體啟動了中美洲的銀行的深入調查所以在這個調查中發現了揭露了中美洲銀行如何將巨額的援助的資金提供給國際上具有爭議的中美洲的獨裁政權像其中有一個例子就是瓜地馬拉的高速公路的計劃自中美洲銀行2008年核准了2.3億的美元的援助之後關於瓜地馬拉 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
11162.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
11166.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
高速公路這個計畫的爭議和貪腐的問題就不斷的在浮現而且在2017年的時候由聯合國所支持的反貪腐委員會及瓜地馬拉公共部所進行的調查發現這個高速公路的整個計畫遭控貪腐與洗錢的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
11181.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
11191.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
還有負責基礎的建設的每一個官員（超過10位以上的受惠官員都遭到判刑（而且最主要是在歷經15年之後（到現在這條高速公路還沒有完成（然後還有一個例子是2021年全球陷入了COVID-19的疫情（ |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
11199.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
11206.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
中美洲的銀行宣布提供一筆6億美元的貸款用於薩爾瓦多的中小型企業役後的貸款然後這個貸款卻遭他們總統挪用了近三分之一的款項那部長我們立法院到現在還凍結的這個113年的相關預算今天北席也安排了預算解凍案但你們外交部的書面寫得洋洋灑灑的一大篇承諾要進行改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
11226.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
11228.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
本席稍微看了一下請問部長你們究竟真正的做了些什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
11231.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
11258.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
有關於瓜地馬拉這個CA9的公路當然在我上任之前我們現在就是透明化所有委員要求的公布的資料以及我們的援助的項目包括就是近期的我們包括貝里斯跟瓜地馬拉相關的計畫我們都是我們援助的部分都沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
11258.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
11276.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
那是這個銀行所涉及到的一些業務當然被質疑我們也就是說要求這個建立透明化跟監督的機制那在臺灣方面我們作為一個捐助國跟最大的持股國 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
11277.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
11282.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
我看了中美洲銀行在我國募到的資金其實是全球最高的而且他們的援助基金其實也是都是我們對他們是最高的包括我現在發現南韓比我們還晚加入但是出的錢比我們少援助的金額也比我們少 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
11305.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
11316.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
但中美洲銀行和南韓卻是已經合作將援助計畫公開上網有平台完整登錄金流還有標案的資訊那請問部長上一任的吳釗燮在卸任就已經承諾要把臺灣援助的計畫在網站上面公開那為什麼臺灣到現在還沒有公開上網呢還是究竟已經公開上網了嗎已經上網了在委員的監督下我們已經把它正式上網 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
11332.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
11359.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
所以為了避免中美洲銀行貪腐的話這樣好那這樣的話是不是因為如果像這種東西持續下去那是會企圖用我們人民的納稅錢嗎所以我們或許就會挹注在中美洲的銀行會變成一個無底洞所以我是認為說接避者的保護法的主管機關當然不是外交部啦但是部長你是否認同應該有一部讓吹哨者勇敢接避的接避者保護法來讓內部的問題能夠讓他 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
11362.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
11387.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
外交的工作當然民主時代一定是要接受民意的監督特別是民意代表這個是原則但有一些因為涉及到機密性當然我們也就是會在像今天開的這個機密預算的會議上我們還是會依照國家機密法相關的規定來辦理確保我們的外交能夠不受傷害 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
11388.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
11401.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
好接下來我在想說在為辛苦的第一線的維繫外交的關係的人員發聲就外交部的說法其實政府推動外管構置的自由的管轍的政策的計畫除了可以節省巨額租金外也有經濟的效益還可以強化主管安全的維護 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
11408.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
11416.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
而且可以避免外債的因素還是突發的情勢被迫牽管的這種優點所以我現在我看了113年到9月底為止我國駐外管處有112處其中我們自有的只有19處自有的比例其實是只有16.96百分比而外交部從92年開始推動駐外管社構置計畫已經超過了20年以買代租到現在卻只有10 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
11438.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
11443.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
幾處的構建那部長我想請問一下為什麼進度那麼慢呢然後還有你知道其實如果我們構置住外管社其實我們可以彰顯我們國家的形象又能增進與住在國的之間的關係所以還有就是如果住外管社的自由率一直沒有辦法提升的話那住外管社的租金的費用一定會持續的成長嘛是一定的嘛那這樣的話國庫負擔非常的沉重那請問外交部你要如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
11468.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
11494.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
取之中間的平衡呢?確實如委員講應該是以購置為原則特別是在像美國澳洲這些國家都是民主法治的社會那過去的經驗也顯示我們的購置就事後來講它的增值或是對我們來講就是包括有一些預算都是很正面的所以這個部分我也在加速推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
11495.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
11521.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
所以像今年就是我們也增列了預算就是雪梨的購置那我們舊金山跟洛杉磯也是已經購置完都已經要遷入辦公先前在紐約我想那個管社的購置是大家認為最成功因為在比較屬於經濟這個比較不景氣或者是有金融這些風暴的時候我們進場 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
11523.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
11552.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
大方向我們會朝這個來推動包括最近像貝里斯是一個我們很重要的邦交國我們離他們的那個就是類似說他們的政府中心就很遠又是租的又是一些好像有很多的歷史建築也沒有辦法好好的去把它做更新所以我也是支持應該要構置在以他們中央政府所在地他們也提供了一塊地是給我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
11553.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
11555.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
我看外交部統計其實113年9月中旬的時候與我國簽訂引渡條約的大概有五個國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
11573.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
11578.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
移交受刑人條約的大約是6個國家司法互助的話大約有13國那表示簽訂的情形其實這種是非常有限的然後針對其中與我國簽訂司法互助條約者其實有13國家但是已經簽訂14項的條約嘛生效的只有11項這樣就是像德國啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
11595.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
11600.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
土瓦魯國、聖路西亞簽訂的這些還沒有生效的所以我想請問一下就是說像我看到113年7月為止這三項都沒有生效那這樣可能會影響司法互助還有受刑人移交還有引渡等領域方向司法合作的關係那部長你是不是瞭解這是什麼問題呢還有外交部對這個計劃有什麼因應呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
11622.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
11642.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
當然簽訂司法互助或引渡條約或相關的這些協定也是彰顯國家的主權所以這個我們是對很重要的一個政策跟業務那至於有一些因為涉及到雙方的立法機構或者是行政程序當然我們會因為有相關的單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
11644.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
11644.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
好,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
11683.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
11686.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
林佳龍部長林佳龍部長林佳龍部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
11707.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
11726.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
部長好先跟你說聲謝謝我生日你還送花來但我們今天呢要討論再次生日快樂謝謝謝謝但我們要討論今天的幾個事情那都是跟這個外交部內部相關的部長因為您前一陣子出訪嘛但我相信你還是很關心台灣的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
11727.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
11746.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
就是有關於這個勞動部有公務員因為霸凌而遭到這個親身的事件那這也引起就是說各部門呢各部會其實都開始有非常多的這個霸凌的事件開始向我們來投訴所以呢因為部長你也當過立法委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
11747.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
11766.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
所以我相信你對這些事情會比較敏感那我也希望就是說我今天我會拿出三件目前投訴到我這邊來那經過檢視那可能真的是有霸凌的這個狀況的事件那來跟你澄清那希望這三個事件呢我們可以承諾說回去強加的調查部長可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
11769.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
11781.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
首先第一個事件其實它是有被立案的在2022年的時候9月到2023年有一位外交替代役他有陳情到我們國和會的帛琉技術團 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
11785.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
11793.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
但是最後的調查結果卻說呢這個就是大事化小,小事化無可是我要告訴這個因為當時您還不是國和會的董事長但現在您是了那在這2022年的時候檢舉人就有說 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
11801.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
11824.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
這個帛琉技術團的技師讓義男去接觸有毒的臭肚魚那雖然當時國和會說哎呀這個是經過助團的技師同意讓他去體驗但我想問部長的是說我們的技術團安排義男去體驗觸摸有毒的魚這件事情是不是不太合理就簡單回復就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
11830.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
11848.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
這個基於他業務上的需要還是說基於是什麼樣的考慮沒有業務需要啊他就是說讓他體驗一下那個技師說呢要我要他跟他朋友就兩個藝男嘛給我用臭度一次一下然後呢這個跟他的組織業務完全不相關啊那 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
11850.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
11869.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
福勤技術團的三位藝男裡面就有兩位在拜訪水產養殖的時候被刺傷那他們就很擔心說帛琉的醫療資源不比台灣在台灣可以治癒風險的這些東西啊可是在藝男這邊來說在帛琉可能就比較危險所以呢他的工作本來就沒有包含體驗臭度於這件事情啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
11874.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
11894.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
所以雖然這個我們外交部當時的回函給他說呢並不是蓄意刺傷的那為了要保護安全已經告訴這個國和會說請他們調整水產養殖中心的做法不要再安排體驗臭豆魚的特性這個是當時回復之後這給這個相關的回復那所以代表說他不是基於業務啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
11901.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
11905.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
他後面也講說他要調整不符合嘛對那可是112年12月29日這個國和會的回函他是避重就輕的他只說未來不再讓大家去體驗但他沒有認為說這樣子有霸凌的行為跟情況或許是那時候大家對霸凌的定義還沒有那麼清楚但是現在狀況不一樣了 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
11926.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
11943.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
檢舉人說在國和會技術團在沒有證據的情況之下指控義男在技術團裡面隨意變膩忽略農場上犬隻甚多卻惡意做出在社群媒體上集體霸凌公審的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
11944.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
11961.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
當時外交部的國和司回復說經查國和會跟助博留技術團臉書過去一年的內容並沒有發現特定人員的負面批評或是貼文不是啊因為他是發在他個人的公開臉書上面嘛我這邊全部都有截圖喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
11963.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
11989.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
來大家可以看一下這個我因為涉及到個資我到時候會交一份給我們部長那但是呢比方說這裡他寫剛剛提水桶在沖洗宿舍門的牆壁因為尿騷味隨窗型冷氣抽進宿舍裡昨天某一男在被移送至市區前兩小時我看到他在宿舍附近鬼鬼祟祟而且這幾天都在下雨突然有尿味是誰去尿的也不用多說還有我很不道德 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
11989.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
12017.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
我叫了所有人一起去聞那尿味證明不是我鼻子壞掉還躲去農場找工人哭訴哭什麼哭是誰要自己幹這爛事你的心態跟行為有多惡劣大家都知道了這很明確的就是說我們的義男只是經過附近他並沒有實質的證據但是技術團的團長他就在網路上面直接的指稱是我們的替代義男做的事還邀請了他其他的這些同事一起去霸凌人家 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
12018.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
12039.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
這件事結果112年的回覆卻說這個沒有公開網路霸凌因為沒有查到你沒有查到但我有查到所以本來這件事情也就不了了之了但是當事人就看不下去的他們同梯那經過這個勞動部霸凌事件的時候希望本案能夠重啟調查那請問部長我們有沒有機會來做這件事情重啟調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
12046.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
12062.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
如果程序上可以的話但是因為有相當的時間現在人事相關的情況沒有啊你們當時是誰做這份報告的呀然後他當時怎麼處理的然後我現在手上具體的資料為什麼我有心事證我們當然應該可以再做檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
12064.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
12065.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
現在大家都很重視職場霸凌事件的時候是一個能夠重啟調查為一個很重要的時機 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
12089.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
12114.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
二、本部也有霸凌的問題。（針對歐洲司某一個長官（我不具體提名稱（因為歐洲司的部門的員工都非常害怕（有非常多的投訴（我整理幾個問題（第一,在內部經常利益良善的大聲溝通（第二,送接機帶路稍有不順就會咆哮同仁（被譽為歐洲司的咆哮地 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
12119.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
12144.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
3、在晚間11、2點的時候還在傳訊息交辦任務4、瘋狂開會公文拖延批閱導致同仁全部都要加班等候在外管當外長的時候以咆哮同仁出名而且這件事情是有名到就是其他司的公務同仁都知道所以來向我們陳情的很多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
12145.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
12174.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
所以外交部是否能夠展開調查並於一週內提供報告我剛剛有問過同仁 這個有展開調查有展開調查 那難怪因為那部長這件事我要拜託你一下就是說你們開始展開調查之後可能會對於相關的公務人員造成更大壓力就像是那時候謝怡榮嘛他在被調查的時候他不就把同仁找過來然後說我不准許你們在對外面講什麼職場霸凌的事情我不允許你們做得到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
12175.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
12194.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
然後大家就很可憐的還說做得到那你們現在調查可能也碰到這樣的情況了具體如何我們私下談因為我不希望這些公務人員被暴露在外面但是呢你們現在既然已經在調查那我理解了為什麼會發生這樣子的情形就是呢突然之間本來想要為自己發聲的人全部都退縮了 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
12195.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
12216.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
所以為什麼我要顧忍其名的原因其實是這樣那既然你們知道我在說哪一個案子那希望你可以要求對方不要要求我們公務人員說好像他就不能再提這件事情不然他們擔心被報復被懲處最後那個主席再借我一點時間因為還有一個案子喔那這個是外交部洛杉磯外管組長對僱員性騷擾案件的後續 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
12219.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
12240.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
先前就有新聞叫做洛杉磯辦事處的林姓組長對僱員和女性的性騷案因為這個和女的中文並不好所以洛杉磯辦事處他們就說這是語言溝通的落差然後沒有惡意只是溝通的誤解就將性騷案去援過去讓當事人去主動撤告 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
12240.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
12253.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
因為如果不撤的話這個案件會一直存在所以在那當時米兔的風波戰平息之後呢這位林姓的組長調回台灣順利退休那外交部也沒有進一步的這個調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
12255.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
12261.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
最近也收到關於這個案件重啟調查的陳情指出當時的負責督導人事的林副處長在案發之後為了包庇加害人順利退休堅決不召開性評會並且引誘受害者天價賠償提告其他無辜的同事來塑造受害者有妄想症的假象 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
12276.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
12294.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
還多次迫害受害人撤回申訴否則要將受害者辭退命令全體職員不得為受害人作證而且要求大家要一起抹黑這個受害者讓家境清寒而且出生越南華裔的受害者是求助無門的 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
12295.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
12322.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
那這一位林副處長在2022年10月高升檀香山處長而加害人呢也在2022年7月成功退休部長我知道這件事情不是在您的任內但是今天既然因為這個霸凌事件勞動部的霸凌事件使得很多過去可能他們就想說算了那我就自己忍吧那他們現在不想忍了他們希望能夠重新找回他們的正義跟公道所以這個案子我也想要請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
12322.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
12333.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
既然這個被害者他們有進一步的來說出新的事證是否也能夠重啟調查因為卓榮翰院長上禮拜已經說過了要求各部會檢視要求各部會檢視是否有公務人員被霸凌的問題而且要在七天之內就要有調查報告像我上禮拜送的這個馬來西亞的這個駐台處辦事處的這個問題喔那你們給我回覆了 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
12352.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
12359.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
但是我自己覺得還是有點避重就輕我已很擔心又會發生謝宜蓉這樣子的事情為什麼因為你們調查報告裡面很清楚的寫到說那一名長官就是平常是你們寫的方式是說因為他的要求比較高所以呢講話會很容易大聲這一點會請他再多注意可是問題是我覺得大家在公事公辦的時候你用這種吼的 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
12378.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
12378.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
所以說﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
12407.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
12425.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
這個部分我們也呼籲外交部的同仁要勇於發聲因為像教育部有海科館的霸凌事件他們已經研議修正教育部員工職場霸凌防治與處理要點那從本來兩個月的事需要延長兩次縮短為一個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
12427.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
12450.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
我剛去看我們外交部的性騷擾防治申訴調查要點目前規定是申訴事件自接或日期的兩個月結案必要時得延長一個月那但是對於性侵或職場霸凌的急迫性跟時效性其實在世界各地來說呢我們很難一直去關注這些案件是不是我們也可以比照這個教育部去把時限來延長 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
12451.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
12477.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
您懂我意思嗎就是我講比較快因為我時間不太夠但總之呢就是教育部他們已經延長了包含職場霸凌的這個作業要點那我們外交部我們是還沒有跟上的所以是不是能夠跟上教育部把這個時限延長讓比如說受到霸凌的人他有比較多的時間思考他能怎麼來處理這件事怎麼來申訴這件事以上兩個問題是不是可以請部長簡短回答因為我有時間的關係好 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
12478.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
12494.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
有關您提供那個案子因為我們這邊還沒有接到請提供資料我們會展開調查以上三案嘛對不對總共我剛剛提的第一案第二案我們有在處理中第二案在處理中 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
12495.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
12510.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
第3案是希望重啟調查的部分尤其他還有心事證就是說靈性的副處長現在接下來要去檀香山就任了那他是當時去包庇這個霸凌者的其中一人那這個部分是不是能夠重啟調查應該回來啦我們有調整人事最近檀香山的 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
12517.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
12518.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
請委員先把資料給我們沒有問題,我們會提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
12538.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
12565.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
最近的這些事情我想也更喚起大家對於不管是先前是有關於性騷擾或侵害的但是現在是霸凌的問題那事實上在今年7月我也有收到委員相關的反應那我們確實就是也有不斷的就是開會包括說暢通保密深處管道有效的苛責還有加強宣導那最近我們也針對這個部分我們也再次的發函尤其是外管這個部分的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
12569.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
12592.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
最後就是這個,您要回答我一下,就是那個霸凌期限的延長,是不是能夠比照教育部?請同仁,你來瞭解看程序上。報告委員,現在行政院規定就是我們是一加一,就在一個月內就是調查完成,那有必要的時候再延長一個月,這是行政院最近的指示是這樣子做的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
12593.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
12602.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
但是呢他把那個調查期限你看教育部他的調查期限本來是兩個月然後可以延長兩次他現在縮短成一個月那我們現在還是兩個月嘛所以我們是不是可以結案日期縮短成一個月讓這個事情能夠比較快的出現這個結案跟委員報告我們就是一個月內完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
12615.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
12616.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
賴慈寶委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
12644.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
12649.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
謝謝主席。謝謝主席。有請外交部林部長。請林佳榮部長。委員好。我請教部長。部長你好。委員好。我們跟日本關係怎麼樣?日本?理念相近而且很平凡的經貿文化交流。 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
12669.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
12676.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
關係很好啊我們哪一位長官啊過去的長官啊你的前任的外交部長還說這個他是我們的大哥哥啊關係這麼好啊結果他們的人啊把我們台灣人當大陸人啊有人跟我投訴啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
12690.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
12694.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
他在日本瑞穗銀行你知道吧日本很大的銀行啊他去存錢他就要告訴你你要寫ID號碼我們寫我們的身份證啊我們的或者是我們的護照啊寫他說不對啊你要寫12個digit你要寫12位數12位數什麼意思你知道什麼意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
12717.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
12720.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
十二位數我沒有辦過欸十二位數是大陸的啦大陸的十二位數啦臺灣沒有十二位數啦那這個運動員他還是老客戶欸運動員就跟他講你要改改 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
12734.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
12736.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
你們是中國、中國、台灣的你講關係多好一個這麼樣子的一個大的日本的一個銀行結果居然強迫我們要寫10號個digit我們不寫不給他辦了這事情你知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
12754.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
12757.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
委員這個個案是不是是很普遍還是他很特別什麼叫很普遍很特別 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
12780.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
12800.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
他如果是比較特別的情形沒有什麼特別就普通的客戶啊一般的客戶啊而且是老客戶啊老客戶都弄錯可見得一直在錯啊人家可能有人就算了就這樣子問題他說我拿不出中國的護照啊我拿不出12個Digital啊這個你要不要幫忙去處理啊瑞穗銀行 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
12808.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
12810.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
你不是娶過聖溫森、聖塔魯西亞?你娶過嗎?對你搭什麼飛機? |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
12837.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
12843.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
來囉我已經給你啦給你看啦你用A320你有包機只有載19個人裡面有沙發有客廳有夠豪華的耶聽說可以有洗澡的地方喔比照一點鐘就還美金兩萬二了耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
12865.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
12867.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
馬英九用ATF70機載70個人一個小時15萬泰幣蔡英文是本巴底環球6000載14個人每一個小時50萬泰幣你每一個小時就差不多70萬阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
12884.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
12886.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
每個小時70萬啊哇 這個林佳龍林佳龍部長你的class你的class比馬英九還高比蔡英文還高高了這麼多你是做什麼偉大的事情啊我所知道你原來是去採點啊怎麼用這麼豪華奢侈的飛機這樣好不好花台灣人的錢這樣花好不好啊部長啊派頭這麼大哦 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
12910.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
12928.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
這個我來瞭解一下因為這涉及到委員比如說我們去南泰應該是不一樣的情形但是那個因為畸形的那個名稱我要再查一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
12929.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
12934.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
稍稍省一省,臺灣很有錢是有錢的,沒有那麼有錢,你以為我馬英九一個小時十五萬,蔡英文一個小時五十萬,林佳龍一個小時七十萬,你要做總統嗎?我不希望,不幸連中,你派頭太粗了,一個外交部長,而且我所知道你去那裡是裁點,是說我是看嘛,要跟總統來, |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
12960.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
12972.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
我去過很多地方包括南派包括加海包括中南美洲那這個涉及到航空公司到底用什麼機型 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
12977.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
12981.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
阿也涉及到人數跟他的航線你人數有阿19個人阿阿這個航線有有Diata美國Diata有包機美國的American Airline AA有包機你都可以Automotive可以挑AA可以挑Diata可以挑都有包機的服務阿你就不要你取一個最貴的隨隨跟你安排的 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
13003.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
13004.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
報告委員我們辦理包機我們都有請相關的管處去 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
13024.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
13033.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
我們負責我們在美國有幾個管處我已經幫你查了路線American Airlines有這個包機為什麼不用American Airlines為什麼不用Delta Airlines都有包機又省很多錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
13041.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
13044.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
報告委員這不是拍馬屁,我們經過住處回報的一些資訊,我們有比較,這個我們絕對...你們挑最貴的?他是一個基於安全因素安全?阿不然你跟那個包機沒有安全阿? |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
13059.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
13061.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
美國會揍你喔!美國人不安全!奇怪!等一下才不安全喔!只有你這個才安全!我們是基於處處回報一些資訊裡面去做選擇然後選擇比較安全部長啊!你要約束一下你的市長啊!這樣子限你於不義啊!說這個林佳龍企圖心啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
13080.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
13081.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
我會來瞭解 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
13102.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
13121.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
你去了解來給我一個報告可以嗎?給我們國防委員一個報告可以嗎?我跟委員講齁其實這趟其實在南泰不是這個樣子那你說講的是拉美的話因為涉及到有一個行程是到這一個海地那當然這個涉及到安全的評估海地我有去過海地我跟馬英九有去過沒有你講那麼偉大啦你說到這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
13125.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
13131.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
委員我在詳細了解我也同意委員你多久時候給我一個報告順便報告好不好多久兩個禮拜可以嗎可以可以喔兩個禮拜因為我這個在幫你我對你很好我讓你澄清一下不然的話你會說多金部長我知道你家很有錢啦多金部長要準備當總統的這樣今天感覺不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
13152.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
13155.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
我再給你強調你要去查為什麼不用American Airlines |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
13183.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
13198.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
為什麼不用Delta都有包機服務為什麼不用一樣可以啊如果有更好的選擇我想外管應該把他列入阿如果就現有的他們的選項那我想委員剛剛的關鍵好啦你等一下寫報告給我啦主要我就跟你講啦因為他們大概想說你浩大是說家裡又有錢不會啦我們是要做總統其實我去南海齁就這樣啦拍你馬屁啦就這樣啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
13211.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
13211.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
接下來我們請黃國昌委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
13242.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
13269.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
謝謝主席,有請部長請林佳龍部長部長好,延續上一次質詢的主題就是對外交部要推動價值外交而不是金錢外交這樣子一個基本的立場我是非常認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
13270.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
13291.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
只不過說所謂的價值外交而不是金錢外交有沒有落實在具體的實踐上,這個就是我們立法委員在監督的時候必須要進一步去深究的。我們在2022年的時候外交部補助了立陶宛,說要補助他們發展半導體,補助了1000萬歐元沒有錯吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
13295.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
13323.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
這個不是補助這應該是共同來設立一個就是有關於4吋到8吋晶圓堂這是很前期的作業是那1000萬丟下去沒有有1000萬但是還在執行中那個錢交給誰公研院交給公研院對然後由公研院做什麼事情他的目標是什麼技術協助技術協助要做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
13324.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
13347.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
就是要發展八吋為主的晶圓廠那立陶宛現在還有要再做半導體產業嗎?有,他們現在因為那個一個園區取得因為他們自己內部一些問題嘛最近有引發媒體的報導那現在就是他們的時程會往後延或以2032作為這個發展這個八吋晶圓的廠的目標誰告訴你他們要繼續發展只是時程會往後延嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
13354.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
13372.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
因為這個跟我從立陶宛那邊所得到的訊息不太一致所以我一定要跟你求證一下因為現在剛剛你所講的這個事情不僅僅是高科技園區的開發宗旨還包括了 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
13373.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
13389.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
這一家在立陶宛非常重要的公司他們已經決定沒有要在立陶宛去發展半導體產業要移往其他國家了在這樣的情況之下我關心的事情是我們當初丟下去的1000萬歐元 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
13391.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
13407.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
那現在這個計畫在立陶宛狀況到底是怎麼樣勒?跟委員報告他是這樣子他現在因為在政府交接期間那Teltonika出來講之後因為是現在要卸任的政府當然也表達說他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
13411.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
13422.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
會針對關心的問題妥善的解決那對新政府要上任也會計劃繼續Teltonika這個計劃能夠發展所以在他們的創辦人對媒體講了這些對這個園區的開發他有意見之後他們前後任的政府也是很積極的來回應他所以現在的情況他又要來推這個案子了 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
13438.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
13467.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
所以確定立陶宛會繼續推半導體產業這個所謂的高科技的產業的園區那半導體產業他們還是希望作為一個目標那當然會務實的把時程做個調整到2032年能夠達到建廠的目標我善意的今天其實跟之前卡貝的質詢是一樣我是藉由質詢的機會善意的提醒我們的外交部目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
13468.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
13481.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
我們對立陶宛不管是用援助還是用投資還是用借貸的方式所投下去的金額包括外交部包括國發會通通都有在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
13484.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
13512.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
這些事情已經開始引起了立陶宛那邊不少跟國際組織有合作的調查記者在開始深入追問非常多的問題包括這一次這個半導體開發的援助跟這個科技園區的未來我善意的提醒外交部錢到什麼地方去花到什麼地方去最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
13513.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
13533.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
會不會無疾而終錢丟到水裡面像打水漂一樣甚至引發進一步的問題我可能要拜託部長要特別注意這件事情因為我不希望我們花納稅人的錢像當初在原住卡貝一樣原住卡貝了以後水引發的 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
13534.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
13554.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
是更嚴重的問題我們在跟立陶宛交朋友的時候我們要用民主要用自由要用法治要用價值去建立所謂民主同盟的關係這個我們大家都樂觀其成那但是當是拿我們納稅人的錢去援助的時候接下來所會發生的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
13555.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
13576.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
錢要用在本來目的設定的用途上沒有辦法繼續下去的時候怎麼樣好好的做好監管的措施這件事情我希望外交部要特別注意因為整件事情目前是現在進行式還持續的在發展當中今天部長您在這邊所說的話接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
13579.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
13598.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
我們日後具體檢驗的時候情況變成什麼樣我相信你應該心裡要有準備都會被翻出來這樣可以嗎可以可以嗎好我今天善意提醒到這裡下一個問題我之前在追卡貝的事情我上次請教了你一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
13600.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
13611.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
我說阿台灣會不會幫其他國家繳股款你說不會結果你們有個司長說確實在我們的考慮之列所以答案到底是會還是不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
13613.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
13640.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
我後續了解我們為了希望能夠增加對這一個卡貝我們這個能夠有影響力因為我們畢竟也有這個支持這個中美中我們是第一大股東嘛對那所以我後來透過委員的質詢我跟同仁了解的時候是有在考慮那也在事實上在進行中所謂有在考慮指的是說是明年嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
13641.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
13642.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
我簡單講啦你把前面十大 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
13671.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
13690.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
前面所有持股的狀況在裡面所有的比例你全部拉出來看嘛你全部拉出來看我好奇的事情是我們到底是要幫誰繳股款他在中美洲銀行到底有什麼樣子的影響力我們已經是第一大第一大持股的國家囉 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
13692.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
13713.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
我們還要再丟多少錢下去過去已經丟了多少錢結果我們過去為了要維持邦交國砸了中美洲銀行非常多的錢我上次也秀給部長看了嘛在過去這幾年當中陸陸續續大概都斷交當然最可惡的是中國是北京嘛這沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
13714.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
13741.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
我們對於中國北京打壓台灣的國際參與空間我們當然全體國人是同仇敵抗一起發聲嘛但我的問題是什麼我的問題是在國際政治的現實上面我們過去喔為了中美洲那一邊我們的邦交國的維持已經砸中美洲銀行砸了非常非常多錢錢一直砸但是邦交還是一直斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
13742.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
13763.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
走到今天為什麼我會關心我們還要不要繼續砸錢下去而且砸錢下去還不是我們自己的股份是幫其他國家繳股款所以我希望外交部在這件事情上面一定要非常慎重的考慮阿你們真的要做這件事嗎要花多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
13765.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
13788.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
對我跟委員報告齁因為我上任之後其實對於其實價值外交跟經濟外交是必須同步啦所以龍幫計畫所以我是有希望積極的去運用這些不管銀行或基金我先停一下啦你說經濟外交齁我這樣說你如果拿錢去幫助那些貧窮的小孩教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
13789.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
13800.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
那邊受虐的婦女所謂的婦女父權計畫你們中美洲那邊在做的一些計畫我過去這幾年我通通都有在看貧窮的小孩給他們教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
13802.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
13822.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
父女給他們付錢這些直接幫助人民的這個是增進人民跟人民之間的感情嘛這個我們大家其實雖然要花錢台灣的納稅人某個程度上都還能夠接受但我們現在在討論的是什麼事情我們現在在討論的事情是直接拿錢出去幫其他國家繳股款 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
13824.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
13844.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
我不好意思啦說這個叫金錢外交啦但我希望能夠知道的事情是你們如果真的在考慮這件事情拿台灣納稅的錢去幫其他國家繳中美中銀行的股款這個到底是一種什麼樣子型態的外交我可以確定啦這絕對不是價值外交啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
13847.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
13867.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
在這裡面我們兩個邦交國一個是瓜地馬拉一個是貝里斯所以是在兩個其中之一是不是?一定是要是這個樣子不然的話那就沒有保障我是覺得怎麼積極的去第一個我覺得委員提到的就是監督特別透明化避免他有弊端這個是我們應該來努力可是除了防弊之外心力怎麼去善用這個卡貝來對我們這個邦交國這個區域有影響力 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
13873.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
13898.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
這個是我們要去改進（不是啊,卡貝在我們邦交國的影響力這件事情已經實踐了十幾二十年啦實踐的結果到現在還看不出來嗎實踐的結果到今天還看不出來嗎你如果今天是一個新的國際組織我們不知道未來會怎麼樣嘛但是關於卡貝來講過去這十年看得還不夠清楚嗎錢不斷的丟邦交國不斷的斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
13900.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
13926.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
所以我才想要理解這到底是一個什麼樣的思維要去做這樣子的事情要投入多少錢部長跟委員說明齁如果中共透過這個進來齁對我們邦交國絕對有衝擊但我不是消極啊去顧邦我希望榮邦嘛所以我們現在在推的不管價值外交、資金外交我先停一下齁我們希望透過這一個沒有沒有沒有剛剛部長你講到一個很嚴重的事情這個就要討論清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
13927.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
13928.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
現在在考慮的項目需要花多少錢? |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
13946.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
13961.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
我想這個都還在跟相關的國家在討論中還沒有到最後的階段上次委員問我的時候嘛因為我還沒有決定那我事後有回去跟同仁了解是有在進行中 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
13962.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
13982.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
所以是往要幫人家繳股款的方向前進就是什麼樣的安排可以去secure我們在這個組織裡面的影響力那同時是不是防弊我希望能夠新立我們在這個組織的影響力我已經一而再再而三跟部長報告啦裡面的你現在看得到了在那個區域的國家除了你剛提到那兩個現在都斷交斷完啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
13985.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
14003.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
我想要積極地去運用這個除了防弊也要心力啦所以我意思是說我面對這個問題委員關心的監督機制一定要強化透明化但是同樣另外一方面怎麼樣善用這個卡貝的機制我們也是要投入更多的心力啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
14004.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
14004.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
謝謝黃國昌委員林部長請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
14034.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
14034.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
楊瓊玉議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
14059.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
14076.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
部長,首先我們來討論最近總統也下令各單位必須在一個禮拜內去清查各單位的霸凌事件是否有,那我們外交部目前清查的完整了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
14078.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
14102.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
有清查而且我事實上在7月的時候我就有就是要求也請聞到外館針對有關職場霸凌我們除了保障同仁秘密檢取的這個陳情的這個信箱以外克責還有宣導同步在進行那對於如果有 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
14103.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
14131.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
好,那監察院在21號通過我駐聖保羅辦事處這個王組長的這個事情那也正式的糾正了外交部當然成立了霸凌的這個小組他認為是不成立在機關裡頭認為是不成立但是監察院裡頭綜合所有的事項他發覺這個代表出四個人鞭子一個人輕生兩個調回外交部 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
14132.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
14155.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
這個問題是的確有問題所以他認為這個監察院認為他的領導同意是有問題的所以在今年7月份通過了彈劾那在這樣的情況下本市要請教部長未來針對人事總署他所頒布的建議我們外交部是不是會如此也就是定定的整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
14156.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
14171.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
員工的職場霸凌防治與處理規範。那麼同時員工職場霸凌處理的標準作業流程也就是我們除了預防之外我們當然不希望發生但是發生之後他有申訴的 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
14175.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
14194.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
在整個的調查當中仍舊可以非常中立而且是不包庇的這樣子查出這個原因你是不是會依照人事總署所提的這個建議呢會好就是因為這個會呢我們也希望要如此的做因為我們不希望再有這些事件的發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
14195.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
14216.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
同時也查出了馮處長不管是職務或者是在辦公、採購方面都有一些糾局在這樣的情況之下目前請教你們到現在處置的情況究竟是如何來我們人事處長說明一下最新的處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
14221.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
14234.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
報告委員因為當初這個整個調查報告是聯通他的司法案件我們是全部都送到那個檢調單位去那對於監察院他所指的部分呢我們就會就虛心的檢討改進以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
14237.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
14254.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
需經檢討改進所以的確是有問題但是我們送的檢調這是依法去行政但是我還是建議部長我們內部的管控要怎麼樣機制去調整我覺得我不希望我們的外交部是漏氣的尤其在外管是很辛苦的 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
14254.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
14271.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
那我們要怎麼樣讓他有靠山好的人才讓他能夠盡情發揮有爭議的他也應該要得到一個監督跟一個處置是同不同意這樣對委員所言就是我們就是把外管這個彭處長調布 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
14273.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
14299.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
就先讓他離開那後續的相關的這個處置包括剪掉最後處置的方式你們自己外交部怎麼處置那也順便資料給本席接下來本席要跟你討論的出國訪問的費用那出國訪問的費用呢你增加了大概這個1.6億1.6億那超過了大概六成所以呢請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
14300.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
14313.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
除了我們全球的物價以及通膨的上漲匯率的變動匯差預算的增幅那麼本需要請教也就是說我們在這個總統預計在什麼時候要出訪 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
14319.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
14331.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
11月30號、12月6號這是你們所做的安排嗎?那當然我們非常希望太平洋的友邦我們也要謝謝總統辛苦的要如此做那會過境美國嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
14333.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
14354.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
出訪的事宜都已經初步宣布這是出訪的邦交國其他就是我們有總統府方面因為美國也說會全力的協助我們以往像蔡英文總統也都有過境韓英九總統也都有過境阿扁總統也都有過境那我們賴一清的總統會不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
14356.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
14381.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
在這一次的行程當中因為有關相關的訊息會在最快的時間再跟對外說明因為也涉及到一些跟相關的協商因為美國也表示他會全力的協助嘛AIT方面也曾經受訪他說如果有他們會願意來協助嘛對不對一向都如此所以要加油那麼請教因為以往總統上任520 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
14382.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
14405.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
以往總統上任委員比如蔡英文總統她委員上任之後6月她就出訪中南美那麼阿扁總統以及這個馬英九總統歷任的總統他們大概也就在3個月內左右就在8月份他們兩位都在8月份就首度就出訪那鞏固我們的邦交國也為我們台灣來宣傳那我們賴清德總統為什麼會 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
14408.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
14428.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
會這麼晚才出門有什麼障礙或者有什麼考量或者有什麼特殊的原因嗎沒有什麼障礙我覺得最主要是這一次邀請總統出訪的三個國家都是在南太平洋為主那他們安排這個期間是三個國家都可以接待 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
14429.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
14430.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
本席也告訴你以往的總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
14446.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
14446.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
對外之捐助 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
14476.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
14490.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
對特別南泰這三個國家都來參加我們總統的就職典禮那也就是今年的選舉啦年初到年尾包括一個國家是最近才選完所以我們就把他安排在這次最近全球都在選舉那所以我們繼續討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
14493.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
14495.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
國際會議以及交流協助各種的這個國際交流活動那這個當中呢你編列了11.8億左右特別有一項也就是推動以及 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
14512.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
14533.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
支助各項國際交流的這個活動當中這個項目是1億多那另外特別在國際會議以及交流訪兵接待訪兵接待的這個部分呢你是編列了5.4億左右5.4億當然就是要接待外賓那比這個110現在進行式的增加1億多 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
14534.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
14562.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
一億多那等於是增加兩成多的預算那當然全球現在進行全國性的選舉所以各個國家的一個政治動向對於我們外交來講我相信外交部同仁也都非常努力在跟這個全世界的脈動在聯繫也是掌控這個選後的政治的這個意向那所以本期要請教我們多了這個一億多 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
14564.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
14564.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
謝謝委員吼 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
14583.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
14598.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
因為我發現說其實邀訪是最好的KPI我們現在預算過去太少導致我們的一些外管比如說歐洲有30個管處他們有一些管處邀請不到對象那你就沒有辦法去了解這個管處到底有沒有好好的去經營 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
14600.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
14624.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
所以我就增加預算喔我是叫歐洲跟美國增加預算我告訴你了嘛增加1億多嘛對所以你這1億多就邀訪讓他增加對象哪一個系列哪一個比如說國會議員政府的部會首長當然這是目前你們在做的嘛但是也就是以往就是現在跟明年度你增加了1億多你一定有你的量能跟你的元素進來本校要請教你的元素跟量能到底是歐洲獅對卓 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
14626.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
14654.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
因為歐洲國家很多就分下去之後有些國家分不到一次那我就發現說如果你你這個管住沒有去經營國會議員或政府首長我們沒有編預算他兩手一攤說你有沒有讓我有預算去邀請我現在用這個做KPI那你看邀訪來的人效果都很好他來過台灣之後對台灣的支持因為他很認識台灣之後不管去參加科學、參觀科學園區或參加我們的這些文化的活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
14655.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
14679.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
所以我覺得就KPI來講邀訪是最直接然後最重要的一個效果那我們台中市你也擔任過市長你也了解到目前為止我們所有的各項都是第一在盧修燕市長領軍也是大家歷任的市長所打下的一個基礎那不斷的發揚光大尤其歐洲商會目前希望到我們台中來是會館的 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
14680.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
14682.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
這是我們外交部目前在增加1億多的預算裡頭我們所提出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
14710.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
14739.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
需求跟量能跟元素所以我要給一個資料也就是請你因為已經設定了KPI把你預計要增加的量能項目那麼你希望能夠達到怎麼樣的成效請給一份書面資料給我們我們希望一起好好的讓台灣尤其是我們美麗的台中我們兩個自己美好的家能夠更加的跟國際來接軌那你書面資料多久可以給本席確實城市外交很重要書面資料多久可以給本席 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
14740.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
14742.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
多少?同仁就 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
14745.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
14747.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
請詳細一周內把順便資料給本席我們繼續加油看了我們的KPI向上發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
14771.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
14772.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
有請部長有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
14803.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
14814.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
部長好 剛才有提到賴總統即將要出訪我們太平洋的三個友邦請問部長您會去嗎 會 圓明會主委會去嗎 會 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
14819.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
14846.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
那這樣很好很符合我的期待因為我覺得我們的外交工作即便是這些南島語族國家我都希望我們的主體客體都是同等重要的一起來努力那我今天其實想要跟您提一下就是我上次有幾個訴求不過我還是說一下因為以這次我們要去的國家帛琉來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
14847.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
14870.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
他在202121年這個惠樹仁總統上任之後來到我們台灣他有講了一句話讓人非常的感動他直接說帛琉的根在台灣而且這個關係會一直延續下去非常令人感動那前幾個月呢因為有一個太平洋藝術節 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
14871.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
14879.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
其中在大會當中主持人說的那段話也被製作成影音到處去傳對他講得很感動他說台灣是我們的母親所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
14887.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
14907.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
其實不論是整個我們的南島語族分布的這些國家其實他們都有這樣的一個想法但是事實上這個主流學說它其實也是其來有自如果從物種像是構數幾乎所有的南島民族國家它都有構數 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
14908.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
14934.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
這個就是因為帶去的種子那因為構樹它是全利用可以把我們整個做衣服也好食物也好藥品也好它其實是一個全利用的那如果說從我們的語言那更是證據很多因為我們在五官數字或者是像船我們有很多的同源詞證明我們是同一家人 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
14934.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
14951.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
好那我們的人口4億人我現在就是想要請教一下因為這個禮拜在圓明會我們的預算審查我們有一項就是圓明會辦理南島相關的業務例如南島論壇 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
14953.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
14965.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
有些委員是很有意見的他們覺得這種外交事務呢應該要由外交部來做所以呢先把它做保留然後後續協商討論請教部長您的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
14971.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
14999.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
臺灣是南島語系的發源地這個是很多學術研究包括現在在太平洋國家也都有這樣的一個認識我是覺得臺灣有這個原住民族是我們外交上最寶貴的資產所以在推總和外交我其中就有針對原住民外交希望能夠用一個任務編組來推動無論所大使也有兩位是原住民族的背景 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
15000.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
15015.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
這次到國流去擔任我們的總統的特使也是我特別推薦由原民會主委現在就是說原民會的業務很多可是他這個有個國際處 能量我們只要來加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
15016.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
15018.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
謝謝部長您的回答讓我們很感動但是我還是要提這是主體性的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
15035.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
15061.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
我覺得在這個部分我們很清楚知道我們南島外交的推動我們應該還是要尊重原民會原住民的一個主體性這是很重要的那我覺得像當天像以陳寅委員來講他說他去了紐西蘭結果代表處想要邀毛利的國會議員怎麼約都約不到但是陳寅委員以原住民的身份一天就搞定 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
15062.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
15088.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
這樣的例子非常的多因為他們是真的把我們當成是一家人其實他們對華人還是有一些戒慎恐懼所以我覺得這個部分我希望說我們的外交體系大部分可能都是以西方文化來建構缺乏南島文化為主體的關係但是我想部長您在這個位置上我已經看到有很多的改變希望你繼續努力但是我要提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
15089.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
15104.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
因為中國正在有意識的滲透要掠奪南島起源的權勢來弱化台灣的主體性我們看到很多的影音抖音被邀請這些年輕人他們已經不再是 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
15105.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
15121.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
天然綠喔自然獨喔他們很多的年輕人開始會去那個地方交流就說出這樣的話我們台灣少數民族也是有根的我們的根在福建是從福建東南沿海遷徙到台灣的這樣的言論在年輕人越來越多在這個世代我們也可以看到他們辦的海峽論壇他們有特別一個叫做南島語族文化學術論壇 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
15133.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
15159.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
所以這樣的一個意圖讓我們感到很憂心所以我之前我有特別提出我希望外交部要盤點原住民族的外交官也要去做人才的培育那未來這些重點的區域的派駐原住民外交人才的可行性我希望能夠開始去思考那另外剛才您有說邀訪是最好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
15159.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
15160.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
對同仁們講說要記得委員還會再問 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
15188.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
15210.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
要規劃喔不能就這樣子說了不了了之喔那我不曉得說規劃進度如何有,我們有跟原民會有討論就是他們也來提案那我們來一起就是推動我有請同仁針對總和外交裡面的原住民外交要步與步之間要有一個平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
15211.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
15235.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
就像我們最近跟環境部針對探權在國際合作同樣跟原住民外交我們的對口就是原民會兩個會一起來推原住民外交所以除了這個活動之外其實我覺得應該全面性的其實就是說其實原住民外交其實是可以作為談外交的主流化的一個主題也真的是不只是說太平洋地區你要像這一個加拿大紐澳 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
15236.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
15258.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
甚至歐洲的國家其實他們對原住民都當作一個主流一個主題在推動可是我們相對來講外交部這個業務是比較不是這麼主流那原民會呢他業務很多外交好像也不是他好像一個最主要的那我們兩部來合作會我想應該是可以把原住民外交推到一個新的層次 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
15259.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
15283.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
部長您剛剛既然有提到說有有有在規劃了齁那有沒有可能一個禮拜之內到辦公室我來瞭解一下進度因為馬上就要出訪齁這次也是我有推薦我特別有提到說原民會主委一定也是要參加那個就是府會包括總統府跟國安會都覺得這很好那就兩週後好不好或者同仁來啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
15286.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
15287.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
接下來我們請羅廷偉委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
15317.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
15318.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
謝謝主席 有請部長有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
15328.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
15353.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
部長好 喂 委員好部長 外交部明年度的預算基密預算18億近6年來新高我想各個媒體都在報導當然外交部有自己的說法但所有的委員都非常的關注有幾個問題想跟您來做一個探討我想台灣處在一個特殊的國際政治的環境裡在這一層環境裡面最大的因素我們看到台灣與世界其他國家所簽的經貿協議比較少加上全球這個經貿協議RCEP |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
15355.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
15383.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
台灣沒有加入因此更顯得CPTPP特別的重要部長台灣為了加入CPTPP已經準備了很久我們都覺得我們準備好了從TPP時候開始準備今天聯合報報導CPTPP大會擱置台灣入會的申請案尤其我們在這一次的是採集體公視局新加坡、越南、馬來西亞目前看起來並沒有支持台灣加入新南向政策的推動不敵政治現實請問部長怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
15385.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
15385.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
15402.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
15428.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
就是說現在的會員國11加1那個1就是英國那目前我們有協商就所謂的這個部分我們協商到的對象基本上都是樂觀啟程樂觀啟程所以我想問一下有沒有這個程序會有一些你也知道說因為國際政治經濟的因素對所以到底是怎麼樣推進那因為加拿大他有用了一個就是要成立工作小組才進入下一個階段實質協商可是他現在可以開放 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
15430.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
15451.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
工作小舉之前就可以雙邊協商那所以據報載我們還是要講一下CPTT執委裡面有一個另一個國家的高級官員表示台灣未獲得共識有一些成員國仍然需要努力的被說服請問部長我現在就想問你剛剛有說並沒有不被支持有人願意樂觀啟程有沒有可以舉例一下哪些支持哪些不支持的 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
15451.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
15477.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
因為這種pre-consultation就是說因為算是說CPTPP的輪值主席國在加拿大的主導之下有通過一個決定就是有關於成立工作會議之前也可以進行雙邊諮商所以我們從今年開始就展開跟一些國家雙邊的所謂的前期的諮商那目前的諮商有將近一半就11個國家裡面有一半那都是很正面那秘魯有嗎沒有在裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
15478.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
15501.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
因為這個有一些他是可以不表反對那我跟委員說明就本來說好像共識決是要大家都vote YES不是現在是你不贊成的人你要去說理由為什麼不贊成那這個我覺得是開了一個一扇門啦算是一扇門給我們只要不反對就算是同意就對了啦因為台灣跟美國都簽訂21世紀貿易這個倡議其實我們是高標準那如果這一次我們沒辦法入會我們有沒有什麼備案 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
15502.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
15524.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
我們就繼續溝通努力因為他這個是有點是說我們去報名然後他在我們受見然後受見之後開始成立工作小組然後進行實質的審查你就要展開很多的諮商我想到我現在也實質可以諮商但是成立工作小組大家也了解因為中國也申請要加入可是這個都是屬於我要去掛號啦可是還沒有受理啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
15525.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
15550.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
我必須要表達國人的期待還有國民的期許我們希望這個部分一定要有這個機會能夠進入那也希望能夠加把勁另外我想請問一下你個人對於臺灣人對於這個國際觀的一個程度可不可以1到10分你給幾分國際觀喔臺灣人喔臺灣人是蠻有趣的一方面很國際化一方面呢好像我們的新聞又比較國內化 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
15551.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
15554.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
你有聽過一眼看天下中華民國外交部國際新聞毒爆戰嗎?你有看過這個嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
15578.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
15580.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
網站的前身他是一個網站帶到相關的一些媒體報導 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
15597.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
15625.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
臺灣Plus是公視現在我們在講的是這個網站所帶到的新聞媒體的報章雜誌這是由時任新聞局局長楊永明先生2012年所成立的當時網站是設立在新聞局新聞來源主要是利用當時54個駐外單位每天收報上百則的國際媒體有關臺灣及重要的國際議題報導、評論、資源而來後來新聞局裁撤以後改由外交部來做接手 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
15626.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
15654.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
到吳釗燮單人部外交部部長的時候最後幾年把他給裁撤掉因此我們認為國人好像忽略了這個區塊的一個資訊收集當然坊間他也會說坊間有很多的一些國際新聞的來源所以這個不一定需要可是我想跟部長探討的一個問題國際新聞的閱讀越來越受國人重視而且就像你說的我們注重在國內的新聞是不是國外的也需要再加強我想現在國內確實有文獻小妹大 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
15655.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
15670.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
明迪選獨轉角國際南洋志等東南亞的週報等等都有在做國際新聞但光這些真的不夠我想我們因此比較關注的其實國際最夯的時事新聞分析而已那其他如果想了解中南美洲呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
15671.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
15688.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
好這樣的新聞甚至是非洲呢要去哪裡看特別是中南美洲台灣邦交國最多的地方國人想要去了解自己邦交國的一個新聞來源其實並不多所以在過去外交部的國際新聞獨報站做得很好上面有分兩岸 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
15689.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
15708.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
有分亞洲、美加、中南美洲、歐洲新聞、非洲新聞每天每一個區塊都會最少更新大概三折左右的一個新聞我想為什麼要裁撤掉是不是有這個機會恢復甚至有這個機會有這個國際新聞的APP外交部長您有沒有什麼規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
15710.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
15737.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
我來了解一下因為委員的提醒那當時怎麼設立怎麼後來停掉那現在因為台灣Plus到底怎麼樣這之間的關係那我們有國際傳播師就從行政新聞局過來做非常多國際輿情的收集那這方面因為現在匯流了我想確實是影音圖文各種資料的呈現讓國人能夠更了解國際的資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
15738.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
15752.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
但是是不是由我們外交部還是透過既有現在的平台或怎麼樣因為現在的科技尤其是數位科技的情況又跟以前我想不管是串流或者是台灣Plus台灣Plus現在在我們教文化委員會也是在討論當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
15753.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
15757.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
我們也想了解邦交國他們內部的政治因素有沒有什麼的變化有沒有邦交國砸了這麼多錢在他們那邊我們有沒有獲得那些他們的資訊了解一下我們跟邦交國到底處的朋友是什麼樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
15782.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
15796.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
這個部分其實外交部是不是能夠給予更多一點的建議不管是在未來台灣Plus或者是你們有機會串流合作不一定要你們主政但是我要講的是中南美洲邦交國還有非洲這一類的新聞我覺得值得大家國際來做一個閱讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
15797.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
15816.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
我很同意委員的提醒,因為包括我們國和會做很多事情,跟我們的幫交國,可是國人也不太知道。其實像我們比如說貝里斯有貝洋計畫,義後的話對他們婦女賦權,這個效果就很好,然後對青年的創業還有非常多的這些技術團, |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
15817.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
15818.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
謝謝部長,很高興您看到問題,有點出問題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
15842.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
15865.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
國內的一個關注我們也希望能夠有機會讓大家國內的一些國人能夠更關注到國際新聞那另外我想跟你請問一下臺凡的外交是否會有一些生變我想大陸搶奪邦交國的一個企圖從未停歇那邦交國到底穩不穩定我們最知道我現在想請問一下梵蒂岡與大陸現在在主教任命的臨時協議第三度的一個續約對臺灣關係會不會有衝擊現階段不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
15869.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
15895.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
什麼時候有沒有掌握後續會不會外交部相關的情質掌握如何對這個臺凡關係我是很注意因為今年這個因為有關於凡中主教任命臨時性協議簽了而且是一次簽4年對那這一位我們目前的這個教宗他也是對發展跟北京的關係很重視很重視我們看到他很重視加中文所以我們很擔憂對但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
15896.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
15909.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
因為基本上我們對於宗教自由還有這些人權的保障我想因為還是他們之間還是有一些除了說地下教會跟愛國教會的問題之外還是有涉及到對宗教人權的問題那這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
15911.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
15926.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
包括中共也是無神論那它本身打壓像一些宗教所以這個還是有一個而且我們台灣的天主教徒也是相當多所以我應該說這樣跟委員講說我們這一年來是很密切關注因為我們很也很關心說在簽訂這個在簽這個協議的時候會不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
15929.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
15950.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
有這樣的一個外交上的變化那目前看起來就是不沒有就是外交上關係的變化不過對中凡關係的一個有點是進展當然會影響到台灣我們也密切注意跟因應中我想大家都知道沒有永遠的朋友沒有永遠的敵人只有永遠的利益這就是國際政治 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
15951.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
15979.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
所以在這個部分上我想教廷與大陸之間主要的歧義我就是剛剛你說的就是無神論也就是宗教的一個問題讓他們有一些歧見但是只要宗教問題解決了外交關係他們可能就會有一些進一步的談判所以我希望部長我們一起慎重的看待中凡三度的一個續簽主教任命的一個臨時簽譯他到底後續會帶來什麼樣的一個政治因素問題這個部分我必須本期在這邊提醒你我們一起來關注這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
15980.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
15991.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
好,我們會加強這方面的...謝謝羅廷維委員部長請回接下來我們請羅志強委員上台質詢有請部長請林佳龍部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
16008.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
16018.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
部長好,賴總統是後天30.9出訪南太平洋的友邦,對不對?是那請問部長他會不會過境夏威夷跟關島? |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
16020.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
16040.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
這個部分由總統府方面會進一步對外說明那我也很好奇因為我也在總統府工作過我也陪馬總統出訪過很多次過去馬總統任內歷次出訪如果有安排過境美國公佈出訪行程的同時也會同時公佈過境地點沒錯吧慣例是這樣嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
16043.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
16071.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
至少馬總統的慣例是這樣啦您最了解對對啊對啊那我不太懂為什麼賴總統要這麼神秘啊是有什麼難言之隱呢還是有什麼不可告人呢我想就是出訪嘛很多配套那怎麼樣去做好公共訊息的一個發布今天就清楚了啦因為所有的相關的配套所以今天就會公佈了對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
16072.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
16096.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
就是會有進一步的對外的說明不是我是建議這種東西不用掉到他胃口去哪就去哪說實在的也到底當然如果真的有特殊考量我就跟國人說清楚但顯然我看現在政府也沒交代為什麼為什麼別的總統會公佈那我們這一次賴總統要這麼神秘還是說神秘是賴總統的風格不知道但不管怎麼樣我們中視還是希望賴總統這個出訪順利成功 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
16100.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
16123.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
另外一個問題就是這一次再次請教部長我也不太懂為什麼陳總統、馬總統、蔡總統第一任當選不是八月出訪就是六月出訪大概都三個月內出訪了然後呢而且一定會去過境美國西岸也就是說僑胞最多的地方那這一次雖然你沒講到底是關島還是夏威夷但顯然因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
16124.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
16138.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
我對於出訪的路徑安排也有點概念啊你訪問南太平洋就不可能是到美國的本土去啦 對不對那一定要嘛就關島要嘛就夏威夷嘛 對不對那我就不懂為什麼這一次沒有相同的規劃為什麼這一次又不去美國的本土呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
16140.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
16155.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
最主要是太平洋這三個國家今年都在年底的時間是可以接待我們元首出訪他們也都在選舉從年初到年末包括帛琉也剛選完 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
16156.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
16158.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
每年選舉的安排是差不多時間的不管是美國也好友邦也好其實你講的選舉的考量在馬總統陳總統跟蔡總統也都是有阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
16174.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
16200.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
我們已經五年沒有去太平洋地區這些島國我跟部長如果是我在總統府當然除了你有特殊考量我跟你講我就去訪問巴拉圭然後就過境美國然後再馬上訪問南太平洋或是我訪問巴拉圭過境美國再轉到南太平洋都是可以的安排啊可是顯然你們今天南美跟南太是比較困難一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
16202.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
16224.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
我還是可以安排如果你有心安排飛過去你還是有辦法安排啦但是不管怎麼樣講就是說他不是互賜性的嘛你既可以訪問南美一樣可以訪問所謂南泰嘛他沒有互賜所以因此我不認為互賜是個理由但是我另外一件事情我要跟我要跟部長說齁其實坦白講為什麼大家會去在乎說今天總統當選之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
16227.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
16256.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
這在最快時間內能夠過境美國同時過境美國本土是跟一個東西有關就是跟台灣民眾的安全想像有關你認不認同我們跟美國現在關係真的是很有互信的基礎對對對對對那我跟你講我跟部長說因為這互信基礎其實存在於您的嘴巴的說明但是對台灣民眾來講美國是我們重要的那個所謂的非常重要的盟友嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
16256.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
16269.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
那這種情況之下台灣人民覺得看到總統今天一當選新榮一當選就能夠到美國本土去的時候他其實是會產生比較強的所謂安全想像這是為什麼歷來的總統都把當選之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
16272.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
16293.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
造訪美國本土作為第一要務就是因為台灣人民的民心的安定很重要那你今天過去總統都做得到到美國本土訪問那給予台灣人民足夠的安全想像而如果賴總統今天做不到這件事情的話那你也不能怪說今天房間有些人對這事產生擔憂啊這擔憂應該也很合理吧對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
16294.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
16322.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
這擔憂不太需要但很快就會澄清你覺得不太需要但是我剛剛就說你因為我們大概從比如說不管是蔡總統或賴總統其實我們都跟美國都有很好的溝通協調有關出訪的事情那包括去年賴總統當副總統當總統特使到巴拉圭過去過去做得很好未來要做更好啦但是我要跟部長說反過來說就是說難道您覺得說其實總統當選在最短時間內過境美國本土其實是一點都不重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
16323.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
16341.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
過去總統這樣做其實也不重要就想太多也不用管台灣人民到底有沒有安全的想像因為這一定基於主客觀跟雙方面覺得最適當的時間跟地點因為最近因為太平洋三個國家他們就一直邀請我們要去而且他們都今年初這是馬薩爾群島跟獨瓦魯選出新的總統跟總理阿伯留又就是總統連任所以這個時間我們認為三個國家排在一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
16352.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
16373.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
我還是跟部長講因為真的不是護赤當然賴總統累一點點跑個兩趟maybe OK啦但是真的不是護赤如果你今天在八月你學馬總統陳總統或是蔡總統八月你就去訪問巴拉圭過境美國那你現在一樣可以訪問南泰啊所以我才講不是護赤嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
16374.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
16403.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
有時候我們訪問也會考慮到他們的比如說就職啦或什麼樣特殊的慶典啦我知道啦當然會有但是說實在話真的有心要訪問齁你一定會找出一個方式安排啦這個就是這當然就是外交部要努力的地方嘛因為不要輕忽這個所謂的安全想因為說實在話我自己就會非常擔心啊因為我擔心的是什麼我擔心是說不要舉例子有人就說欸其實不要在乎這些東西這些東西也不重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
16403.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
16431.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
那我告訴你不重要就更重要為什麼?如果這麼不重要的事情也就能夠換得人民的安全想像就這一點外交部都做不到那我就對外交部的能力會打折扣啦或是還是說今天美國不讓你做得到那就抱歉那就不能怪人家覺得美國有依賴論所以這件事情不要以為它是表面上的象徵性它實際上攸關某些部分我們講安全想像拜託部長真的當然過去就過去啦後面趕快安排好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
16434.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
16450.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
律法院也有編列預算我們今年也一定是說在出訪上雖然是年底壓軸雖然是先到南派有綜合的規劃後續的出訪依據委員提醒的重點部長再加油一下謝謝你一起努力謝謝謝謝盧羅志強委員部長請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
16461.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
16466.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
鄭振前鄭振前鄭振前委員不在接下來我們請邱志偉委員上台質詢其實我有做一個會議詢問今天練習是幾分鐘練習北北委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
16488.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
16516.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
非本會的4分鐘啦但是我盡量齁都是因為大家都是有充足的準備的因為我這樣齁我高鐵票改了兩次因為你是不分區我是區域我在高雄齁都選區失誤啦所以我在今天委員當召委為第一個為了讓會議能夠順利進行第二個兼顧每一個執行委員的公平性第三個不要影響到下一個委員搭高鐵的權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
16518.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
16533.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
所以我當軍委會召委我跟您建議啊時間掌握都很精準就是以上三點理由所以謝謝謝謝主席謝謝建言謝謝建言我會充分把握這個四分鐘幾秒160秒時間請林部長請部長部長160秒三個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
16546.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
16550.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
目前CPTPP執委會在加拿大,今天大概會有個結論嘛,奧克蘭原則很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
16553.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
16579.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
這個經貿談判辦公室他是一個任務編組主要能力還是駐外或者外交部跟這個經濟部去協力對前線的資訊很重要曾厚倫大使他當過次長所以他應該全盤掌握這個啊自我會部長會這個最後的結論會不會按照這個奧克蘭的這個原則第三下一個最重要就是說共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
16581.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
16605.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
但是有些國家對中國是很友好台灣要入會的最主要的關鍵是中國中國他不是要真的加入CPTPP他要accept他為了要阻止台灣加入CPTPP這是他的戰略目的那跟中國友好的國家在東南亞國協比方說新加坡新加坡你們跟同大使有沒有聯絡過 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
16606.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
16634.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
好,在馬來西亞相對他們比較偏向中國有沒有跟葉大使理論過?前線的狀況要很清楚明明知道這兩個國家可能相對對台灣比較不友好對台灣陸會可能會持這個反對意見那就加強這兩位大使對住在國的相關的這個經貿官員的這個遊說也好或者互動也好這部分外交部有沒有做到? |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
16634.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
16662.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
其實奧克蘭三原則高標準沒有不良貿易記錄然後再共識決那個共識決過去被認為說只要一個國家反對成立工作小組就反對現在經過加拿大今年輪值主席國的解釋要基於效率就是說你不能為了反對結果CPTPP停擺那開啟了所謂的pre-consultation就在工作小組之前就可以雙邊諮商那我們就今年來在很積極去諮商那我跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
16663.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
16682.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
有11個國家基本上我們諮商的對象都是很正面可是政治的因素也不能不考慮可是並沒有向媒體報導的說去反對台灣因為台灣的條件是最符合的如果有什麼樣的干擾那是政治那是干擾者的問題高標準的條件完全符合對我們跟美國都簽21世紀貿易倡議每一個會員國都要同意對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
16690.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
16692.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
我提這個問題是希望說外交部能夠跟經濟部跟台灣公司更加努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
16720.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
16748.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
目前遇到困難加強力道加強資源加強能力去處理第二個問題就是我是跟委員說明其實很多現在講的國家我們私底下都跟我們講他們不會反對但是如果我們能夠得到更多有力的支持那會更順利我們相信有信心但是要全力以赴因為外管領導同意比如經貿組文化組他相關人員如果受到這個相關他們掌管的霸凌他第一個生存管道是找館長嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
16750.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
16759.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
找館長嗎?館長就是他整個就是要負責整個管務我覺得這個部會的本位主要把他這個放掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
16760.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
16781.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
在前線作戰的館長是前線指揮官阿不管是經貿組還是文化組還是這個科技組你當然要聽館長的嘛考記要聽館長的阿所以他前線如果他在前線不讓經貿組、文化組受到霸淫那第一個讓你找館長館長應該馬上處理阿而不是回過頭來找他的所屬的部會這個部分喔你在 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
16785.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
16800.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
我要示範一下什麼叫精準質詢喔時間到了齁你那個你再用順便給我齁好謝謝謝謝邱志偉委員部長請回接下來我們請葉元之委員上台質詢你要麻煩請外交部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
16816.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
16816.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
尼加隆部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
16823.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
16849.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
部長好,你那外交部有在推那個全民外交嗎?總和外交現在叫總和外交那要也是要公司協力嘛結合我們台灣最大的力量去推展外交特別是政府部門大家都要做外交的幫手不是當豬隊友但最近我們在別的地方就看到我們有一個公家機關相關的部門都一直在當豬隊友就是所謂的台灣Plus我不知道這個計畫你知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
16853.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
16867.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
幾年前當時蔡英文總統講說要打造像NHK跟BBC一樣的公共平台要讓全世界聽到台灣的故事聽到台灣的聲音花了58億4年的計畫結果最近 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
16868.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
16889.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
在川普總統當選的時候他們的記者講說看來美國人選擇了一個重刑犯那這個事情那時候引起軒然大波所以後來文化部長覺得不妥要求台灣Plus把這個新聞下架但是我在台灣Plus的很多新聞裡面我持續看到他們用 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
16890.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
16891.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
川普曾經是一個脫口秀的主持人 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
16911.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
16924.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
重返白宮的一個總統候選的成功的當選他這麼多的形容詞但是非要講他是一個重刑犯你認為湯恩普拉斯這樣不斷的強調川普是一個重刑犯這件事情你覺得妥當嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
16926.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
16949.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
就從委員講的去報導的時候他在什麼脈絡下用什麼樣的一個形容方式本來就是有他的主觀心可是客觀上面當然因為他當選了就是民意的支持所以這個時候如果個人的立場跟這個機構他的角色這怎麼去一個能夠有一個權衡 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
16952.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
16957.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
我希望部長是以外交角度來談這個事情因為第一個台灣Plus它不是一般的民營媒體它是政府出資 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
16980.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
16998.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
做的媒體用意是要讓全世界聽到台灣的聲音結果他們現在聽到台灣的聲音是說台灣人就一直不斷地強調川普是重刑犯這個特質那你覺得適合嗎然後我舉個比較明確的例子在他們發生爭議之後我去他們的網站去看 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
16999.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
17028.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
他們是怎麼形容說川普的支持者在海湖山莊去慶祝川普的當選一樣喔描述川普的時候說川普就是一個被定罪的重刑犯人家已經當選了人家的支持者在慶祝結果你用一個這麼負面的標籤在形容川普那你現在是怎樣你在酸那些支持者喔好像意思是說你們這個支持者有問題啊人家是一個重刑犯的當選了你還在那邊慶祝你慶祝重刑犯嗎我個人站在外交的角度我覺得非常不妥當 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
17029.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
17051.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
我是覺得非常不妥當那文化部當然可以拗啊文化部他可以講說那個就客觀描述但我要強調客觀描述有非常多種部長您本人也做過很多職務嘛你做過外交部長你也做過交通部長你也選過新北市長你還做過總統府秘書長那我們特別去挑你失敗的經驗不斷的加注在你的身上你會舒服嗎你會不會覺得是偏見你會不會覺得很刻意 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
17053.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
17078.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
我還做過行政院新聞集對對嘛對嘛然後那我就一直負面標籤嘛比如說這個參選新北市長失利的林佳我沒必要這樣嘛因為你現在是外交部長我們希望你外交就好嘛就像川普當選了我們希望他領導美國然後對跟台灣關係好我們要正面那不斷的去描述他的負面標籤然後強調說這個是客觀的描述我希望你從外交的角度來評論這個事情你覺得適當嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
17080.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
17105.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
個人跟機構跟國家是不一樣在你有那個角色就是說如果說今天台灣Plus要任何媒體也好那你這個新聞的報導個人的政治立場是一回事我覺得你這個角色大家都會有個期待另外就是其實比較根本的問題我跟委員說到底台灣Plus是不是媒體它是平台還是內容它是媒體 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
17106.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
17116.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
當時就說打造跟BBC跟NHK那BBC是不是媒體那個就是值得討論BBC是不是媒體那也是蔡英文總統宣誓要成立的因為其實文化部也不一定給公視以前也沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
17117.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
17121.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
所以這個是制度面的問題我認為要去理解因為媒體你做平台的話讓各種內容匯流去促進那你可以專案的跟很多的媒體合作人家媒體合作有他的立場可是這個角色的問題因為你問我做過很多工作所以我也常常換工作他是媒體啦他是類似BGNHK的定義 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
17139.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
17148.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
有限、無限跟外星媒體匯流出外路新媒體社群媒體你是希望當文化部長是不是你是想當文化部長來跟我討論這個事情因為社會你是外交部長我雖然你可能很無法忘情過去的職務現在我跟你講因為我們是站在外交角度我們認為他做豬隊友 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
17158.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
17178.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
在外交角度個人的立場、機構的立場、國家的立場現在沒有個人立場現在你們有很多外交人員在做對美關係大家都希望台美關係更進一步特別是川普上任之後他很強勢我們當然可能需要花更多心力在對美關係上面那如果我們跟他保持好關係的同時台灣的公營媒體 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
17180.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
17207.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
臺灣人出的錢的媒體是這樣子不斷去描述川普的負面標籤我希望布朗你站在外交角度你去跟網絡部長講一下現在大家都講全民外交總和外交全民一樣的意思人人都是外交官人人都是外交官然後現在我們動不動假設國人去美國就一直講說川普就是一個被定刑的重刑犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
17207.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
17230.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
一講這種東西有辦法做到嗎?個人的言論是一個層次但是代表你的組織、機構尤其是媒體那是另外一回事對啦對但我們不希望大家這樣嘛你做總和外交你難道希望我們的國人出去都講川普壞話嗎你當然希望說大家維持好關係這是你一個期許他怎麼講你不要控制他因為他是個人可是你總不希望他這樣做吧還是你希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
17231.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
17237.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
你不會希望嘛所以是不是可以跟外交部講一下因為他們現在明完不靈他們不斷的強調自己是對的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
17241.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
17263.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
我覺得這是最可怕的就是說你不小心失誤你改就好了嘛你一直強調你是對的開玩笑那以後你是要不斷的強調川普是重刑犯這件事情有必要嗎?有必要嗎?我來瞭解一下文化部長他的心聲我們是站在外交不是說完全沒有說你做不好的地方就是希望你跟他說一下因為這是統合外交的一環要配合外交部做一些良善正能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
17269.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
17271.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
三好運動說好話做好事存好心謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
17303.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
17306.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
謝謝主席,有請部長,謝謝請您部長部長好我也好我還是要講一下,主席這個非本委有時候講話的時間好像比本委還要長所以我剛剛等得有點太久了我知道主席不好意思,但是他們有些人真的講太久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
17327.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
17346.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
我想問一下部長因為今天是預算所以我想還是針對預算的部分第一個就是我之前一直在講的就是說我們在外交的時候我們會去接觸國外的這些議員他們的官員包含他們的智庫但是有一部分其實還是跟他們的人民接觸真的很重要當然僑委會負責了一小部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
17348.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
17364.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
但外交部其實應該也是主責的單位啦那因為我們我最近在看這一個NPR的這一個出口民調那第一個他們說民主黨這一次年輕選票流失非常多因為其實這一次這個川普的票其實跟上一次差距不大 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
17364.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
17384.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
但是這一次這個賀錦麗的票顯然跟這個拜登的是有差距那很明顯他調的大部分都是年輕人然後裡面呢他在這個那個民調裡面我們可以看到他們有問說這個譬如說以哈的問題台海的問題跟烏克蘭的那個烏俄戰爭的問題那在這個裡面呢我們發現他們是18歲到29歲裡面是在所有的age group裡面對台海問題最無感 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
17393.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
17416.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
然後呢在往下這一個就是我上下兩個圖嘛下面那一個是認為就是說對他自己而言臺海的問題重不重要他們的18到29歲是所有的age group因為最低只有到四成而已也就是說呢他們對這件事情沒有什麼感覺啦那這不是他們的問題因為畢竟他們關心的是他們自己國家的事務那臺海畢竟對他們有點遠啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
17417.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
17435.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
我當然還擔心的事情就是跟之前一模一樣就是但是問題是他們會看比如說看TikTok看各式各樣的社群平台那現在中國在這間社群平台的聲音是特別大所以久而久之他們常常會接觸到一個訊息就是就我們自己的研究我們就發現中國很喜歡去講說台海的問題很複雜 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
17437.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
17453.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
就是那個跟那個中東問題一樣都很複雜你這個沒事不要隨便選邊站兩邊的人其實都很有問題大概這一類的話現在變得越來越多那年輕人因為常常看這樣的東西所以國外的年輕人會漸漸形成一個氛圍就是那邊的議題不要隨便碰觸 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
17456.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
17481.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
這個對我們來講就會有差別因為他不只會反映在他們對政治人物的態度上面也會反映在今天不管是誰在執政我說美國他去選舉所拋出來的政策他要去關心一般民意的想法所以我們現在就是說就是我最後這個問題就是尤其是在美國對他們的年輕族群這個有點像是公眾外交的部分我們現在有什麼比較好的措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
17481.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
17493.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
有否在這次的預算上面能夠被展現出來是跟委員報告確實民主國家對於民意在每一票都是一個聲音我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
17496.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
17518.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
對美來講我覺得州政府還有相關的這個更草根的層次我們是會做一個重點那當然除了州的意思對因為這次川普的支持有一些其實是非建制派的不是那種傳統這個保守主義的他來自於很基層的草根 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
17518.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
17541.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
所以我們在這個方面要跟他對接那另外當然臺美之間的合作計劃也有這些比較意見領袖的怎麼託他們再去影響不管是臺美教育倡議還有這個有關於這些像Fruity by Scholarship或者是美國青年意見領袖訪問團國際青年精英領袖研習辦這些意見領袖也是很重要因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
17541.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
17564.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
除了這次選舉比較是內政導向跟他們的一些經濟但是外交我想呈現在一些民調上是也很有意思就是說其實除了參眾院的投票其實單單的這個撥款法案其實台灣、以色列跟這個烏克蘭我們就是得到最多支持所以參眾議員的其實也反映他對於民意只是說很多人對台灣不認識但對中國是認為他是敵意國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
17567.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
17586.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
但如何增加對台灣的認識 這個就是我們的空間所以比如說我們現在美國在台灣有24個州都設有經貿辦事處那我就跟我們外交部同仁講我們活動要找他們因為他們反向會回去影響他們的州你們跟台灣的投資貿易的關係所以一定要到subnational |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
17587.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
17603.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
不能只是就是說nationalional或是international所以到subnational的層次的外交包括公眾外交那你看現在在美國的台商會過去是很多台橋、同鄉會現在其實他們社會影響力包括第二代都組織起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
17604.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
17626.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
所以我們現在的NGO也好我們公眾會還有相關的主持我都鼓勵要跟他們對接我很多行程都盡可能排因為你有去跟這些人互動的時候他會成為我們的分身回到美國美國當然包括加拿大而且他們對於現在所謂的認知作戰假訊息對於所謂華人社會透過TikTok的影響他們很有危機感 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
17626.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
17653.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
台灣他們又覺得我們可以經驗分享我想委員也常常幫我們扮演這個角色所以這個工作也是要進入總和外交去對接從中央到地方行政立法以及各個社會的這個可以說各個領域對我覺得剛剛部長提到很重要的就是subvention policy就是說我們現在對各種尤其是優勢對待他們的年輕人有些時候他們對於中國可能已經認識了但台灣是不夠了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
17655.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
17680.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
這個雖然是一體兩面但對我們來講很重要尤其是你要去破他們那個講法說這個情勢很複雜中國台灣都有各有各的問題所以請不要亂碰觸那他如果不夠了解台灣他就會誤中這個陷阱我們在多年以前我們跟日本的關係其實也是日本對中國相對來講有了解而且也認為中國是有一定的敵意但對台灣其實是在那一次大捐款之後越來越多是一般民眾對於台灣的了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
17680.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
17698.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
雖然我們不可能會有那麼多的事件可以去展現這些善意但畢竟透過一些比較剛剛提到的總和外交的方式應該可以讓更多的美國公眾尤其是年輕人瞭解我們那剛剛有提到我覺得很重要是NGO因為NGO畢竟是一個算是面對的這一個一般民眾的一個算是一個終結點 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
17700.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
17728.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
這個中介點的NGO我們除了國內外的這個整合之外我這一次看到就是我們有這一個這個我今天跳過就是我們的NGO領袖論壇那NGO領袖論壇這個目標受眾其實我覺得就很重要因為我們希望NGO能夠第一個當然是我們能夠協助什麼但再來就是NGO他們這邊目標受眾他能不能把我們想要傳達的意思又能夠再帶回去我覺得這個應該是特別重要的事情那因為我們現在也有民主基金會民主基金會跟國內的NGO |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
17730.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
17749.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
但我看這一個出席的啊什麼等等之類的有時候國內的好像也不夠多當然是有很多國外的啦那目前這一個目前這個國內外串聯的狀況是不是可以請部長稍微說明一下是除了民主基金會我們NGO其實預算有限但我發現我們有一個窗口跟就是作為資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
17751.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
17771.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
因為很多的交流我們要找相關業務部會一起做比如說我們現在加入世界衛生組織那種的醫療公衛很多的這個相關的NGO那同樣的這個智庫外交也是或者是說我們在推動經貿外交等那這個部分其實大家對台灣現在是有好感 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
17772.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
17795.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
因為我們的不管民主或者我們的這個半導體的這些科技那怎麼去促進我們外交部做一個核心那比如說我們的外交學院以前可能就純粹我們外交官的學院可是我們現在怎麼樣去跟這些NGO或智庫或相關的比如在台灣的這個州政府的代表去對接所以我在一些活動我現在都邀請 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
17802.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
17816.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
他如果能夠也加入到外交學院我們在講的那些東西的話或許也會是一個很大的幫助因為他可以深入理解嘛不然有時候都是比如說見個面可能一個小時半個小時那大家講的話不夠多那就會變成說會比較像是形式上的交流 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
17816.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
17843.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
另外我跟委員也報告其實我在臺東市長我就想推INGO當時其實外交部也支持可是後來當然接我的市長他沒有要做不然其實INGO臺灣現在因為香港的問題越來越多成立了臺灣因為中共這個秘密這個境外資訊操弄還有非常多臺灣多元的文化也好各種的這個這個對接我們怎麼樣透過外交部做一個hub |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
17844.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
17862.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
這個我也是在希望說總和外交我下面我們在業務報告有大概10項NGO外交相關的這個比如說文化外交運動外交就是外交的內容不能只是雙邊的政務因為大家都想交流所以我們外交部可以做一個平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
17863.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
17865.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
以登記諮詢委員除不在場外已經發言完畢報告及詢答結束本日會議有羅美玲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
17894.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
17916.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
黃仁委員、王洪威委員提出書面質詢請列入紀錄並刊登公報。請相關機關以書面於兩週內答覆。委員口頭上面質詢未及答覆的部分要求補充資料者亦請相關單位以書面兩週內提供。委員另約定期限者從期所定。 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
17918.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
17918.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
同意同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
17945.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
17950.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
那在場的委員是同意 那我們就同意動之提報院會本日的會議到此結束 上會 |