| IVOD_ID |
163182 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163182 |
| 日期 |
2025-07-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
21 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-07-17T09:56:15+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-07-17T10:13:54+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:17:39 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1404c3f0fc5b98571b5214e7a7b7a13d7e529aa6299d4c22ee40b7cd066593826e64d1a1634640805ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
蘇清泉 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:56:15 - 10:13:54 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-07-17T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、勞動部部長、財政部部長、農業部針對「因應嚴重災情、緊急重大事件，醫療院所承擔救護量能困境及因應台美關稅談判對台灣食品安全相關影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝主席我請保證部部長請部長財政部次長農業部次長兩位次長來 第一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
26.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
33.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
部長 這個問題我上個禮拜醫院協會 區醫院協會都一直來反映 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
34.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
58.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
那你們開會就這樣倉促的決定說醫協中心跟區議院要比照上市公司來管理只要違反勞基法就要加重處罰這個反彈非常大那我有找師長來做協調但是反正有1000個理由說一點被實施8月1號 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
59.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
72.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
那這個是非常嚴重,我是覺得,我常常跟你電話聽說你是在中邪,你是怕今天事情不夠煩,不夠派出力,要跟火上加油,那你的看法怎麼樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
73.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
89.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
跟素仁說明喔其實我想勞務在這一次這個這個處罰罰還的採處罰還的公共性原則的調整上面其實我們並沒有增加對醫院更多的管制性的要求其實只是針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
92.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
116.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
這個財儲他的下限從原本是兩萬元到一百萬現在改成是五萬到一百萬其實我們上限也並沒有動薪資的部分我想是沒問題就是兩萬到 風時的問題對那我現在現在我的意思是說我們其實只是從兩萬提高到五萬喔這花款是吧對我們只把這個花款從兩萬提高到五萬一百五十萬啊沒有沒有我們上限還是一百啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
117.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
138.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
上限還是一百萬上限是一百萬只是下限的部分從兩萬拉到五萬那這個我要強調的是我們並沒有提出更多的管制性的要求只要醫院能夠遵守法規把法規做好這個調整其實對醫院來說並沒有影響啊我跟部長講這個勞基網是霸王條款 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
139.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
159.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
霸王,不是你做母天堂比霸王一向就是醫療院所碰到這個,大家都坐在等公家醫院也有約聘人員,他也是壓力都很大那我跟你剛剛陳昭志委員,一個好幾個委員在講台灣有韌性,台灣能夠發展台灣可以這樣,現在不錯,那是台灣24小時在碰 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
163.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
178.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
所以晶片業者 他們三班坐 另外一班叫做On call所以是四班人在輪 那就是付出很高的代價那些人都是在賣肝啦 賣命啦那他的酬勞250年薪 300年薪 500年薪 應該的那醫療人員 剛剛陳昭書人講的值班 熬夜 現在我去某一個醫學中心的急診室 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
192.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
201.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我去看他結果小兒科的急診你知道看病的那個兒科醫師是幾歲嗎57歲他看著我就站到後腳 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
205.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
233.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
說我做到腹瘦還要看急診還要加上尾巴加上尾巴是練不了的因為孩子大家都很緊張所以我要跟你報告現在醫院是全部人都納入勞基法包括住院醫師也納入勞基法住院醫師值班都有限制工時也限制反而是保護呢現在醫院的主力是主治醫師在值班看你有要求嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
235.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
239.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
釜山高平均要60歲啦麻醉高 我說現在開桌一開超過八點鐘、十點鐘要很多啦那都麻醉高 都醫生 外科醫生大家在那邊拚拚後 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
250.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
265.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
對這是很嚴肅的問題那個跟文說明我們其實正是要來保護醫療人員跟醫護人員的勞動權益我們就是因為重視他們的勞動權益也是因為有很多的醫護人員來跟我們反映 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
266.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
293.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
其實醫院如果違法其實有幾個相關的法規違反的話其實常常只是被罰兩萬元這個違法的成本真的太低了其實這正是很多的醫護人員來跟勞動部反映認為這個財儲過去的財儲不符合比例原則所以我們很怕現在醫學中心跟區醫院因為很多區醫院都是在各個縣市的偏遠地區尤其區醫院都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
295.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
318.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
施仲良說東塔醫院啦,我看是碼頭醫院啦或是標桿醫院都沒關係,反正那些都很重要那些都是現在主治醫師級在撐耶那個醫院協會李慧朋他的兒子好像神經外科他兒子半夜要去開刀,這把小孩子丟給他他阿公在過分主治醫師其實現在是適用老計法的84條之一啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
319.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
325.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
主治醫師現在 住院醫師那是沒有問題主治醫師沒有公實規範我跟妳講喔 再過去啦 因為說一邊會走走那邊用檢疫 想要檢疫就都一邊所以那邊用檢疫 昨天沒人要開桌沒人要拒收 有人求像日本這樣一個產婦 去洗腳 救護車 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
345.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
371.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
請問施加醫院沒有一間要收台灣如果變成這樣那一頓就停產這個跟委員說明我們其實正是很關注醫護人員的勞動的權益所以我們其實才做這個方面的調整那我們也覺得我們也看到現在醫護人員這個人才流財相關的困境所以我們也才覺得更需要院方把 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
372.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
376.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
法尊給做好 這才有助於流程我們在熬夜 我們在值班我們在run 24小時 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
378.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
399.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
熬夜是很累的,掉頭髮會掉的時候我就會掉,脖子也會掉皮膚會老化,免疫力會下降,那是會破壞的沒有人,我就會繼續動下去女性,我們婦女人員如果是大一班常常上,那連月經週期都會亂的那很嚴重的事啦,台灣的命運是在這,台灣的韌性在這所以這個案要實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
407.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
420.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
來我們財政部處長我問你川普說加班費值班費都免稅我覺得他講得很好啊雖然川普常常亂講話但是他講這個非常好 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
421.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
429.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
因為那都是在賣命 整個美國要進步也是這樣這的人為了台灣 不關是服務業 不關是醫療我們公家醫院的醫師 社團法人 財團法人的醫師都是這樣在碰這的人 極重任難的主治醫師他這樣賣命 哪個值班費 現在都要繳稅 而且稅都很重 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
449.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
475.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我們現在始終兩處長跟部長在推說這些家職班會不管公家醫院 不管私人醫院 不管財政法院都可以給免稅 美國就這樣幹啊我們能不能這樣幹啊不然的話 組織醫師 政策醫師全部跑光了都招來經受 因為經受可以執行業務所得嘛所以你這個事情非常嚴重 如果要修法 我跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
476.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
486.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
財政委員會的人說要修法 給他免稅額啦什麼特別扣除 但是那都不太可行就是把夾環會 值班會直接認定你有這個Data嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
488.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
504.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
跟委員報告一下其實我們也了解我們中央健保署其實有在檢討這部分那其實我們財政部非常的積極已經有函詢衛福部在釐清這個延長工作時間的加班時數跟他的支付標準的問題那這個部分我們會持續的來跟衛福部來演繹 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
506.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
535.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
你把他每個月的那個所得等下除以他的工時然後算出來每個小時那他如果超時的或者是時間外的就讓他免稅能夠報出來 這樣可行這個沒有多少錢嘛不然的話留不住人喔 我跟你講我覺得建議蠻好的這個部分我們來看看我們財政中心可不可以跑一下但是那個工作時數可能醫院才會有所以這個部分我們會持續的來跟衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
535.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
564.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
你要積極來做 不然的話就很嚴重 被勞動部再K下去的話我告訴你 兩頭空連陳先生都不想值班了還是有受那個勞基法的一個加班時數規定的一個限制啦所以 對你們是用醫師法所以我們會持續的來跟衛福部那持續跟我們的醫療院所這邊衛福部看看他們有沒有這個我們的一些醫師的一個加班時數的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
565.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
585.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
然後我們來學衛生部一起研究我希望衛生部還有那個石署長跟家政部在那邊積極啦這個公家醫院的意思也是一樣那你如果沒有的話這個社團法院醫院、私人醫院把這個拉高把這個有加值班費免稅我要跟國家賠的多少料料?跟賠的多少我沒辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
588.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
599.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那是很嚴重的問題 你現在值班的人都五六十歲 六十幾歲值班我們屏東有婦產科醫師 八十五歲 還在控案 還在值班一個八十五歲 一個六十五歲 請問委員 其實我們都去過議院所以這個你們財政部不要說到財政部 說到婦稅層 大家都拖著走 拖著頂角角不 委員我們你現在幾歲是長命性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
617.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
633.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我們還是必須考慮租稅的中立性跟公平性啦但是我們了解醫療院所的我們的醫生的一些他工作的一個特殊性所以我們會來檢討這個合理性你的多久可以討論出來這個我們會看跟衛福部一起合作兩禮拜一個月應該是沒辦法這麼快一個月也不太快 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
640.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
651.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我們會積極來處理兩個聯席會一直來跟你K我們可能也需要一些Data來研究看怎麼樣的加班時數比較合理報告一下 這個衛福部我們有請建保署這位很會心會心還是會心很會心的去做很多的討論很會心的做的討論也很用心的跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
670.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
686.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
現在是請醫院協會因為這個科別有它的複雜不同性所以我們用最快的適度所以我想也拜託財政部能夠用最快的適度因為希望在今年能夠完成這樣的一個制度那明年就可以來 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
699.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
711.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
現在他就看一半安全跟那些醫院是救人的單位啦所以我們開刀絕對不會開到一半就停因為他的想法跟你就不一樣啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
713.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
726.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
他是算不太年輕 他很年輕他的生活就跟我們不一樣 你們常常說的理想 為了賠人 救人什麼的說那些五四三的 現在都沒在聽 我們那個時代真的是要有這樣站在內地 但是現在不一樣所以 現在都很很很spatical的所以所以這 施主長你趕緊啦一位一位一位 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
741.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
768.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我們會要求臺灣醫院協會盡快希望在幾天之內就能夠提出來提出來以後就請負稅署能夠財政部能夠做然後我們這邊相關的成績衛護部的高階會議也一直在討論怎麼樣把它落實那最重要的就是財政部這邊我自己都吵死了對不起啊因為部長你這個案對的前往是要執行你往是要執行就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
770.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
770.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
啊你就要看要怎麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
772.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
798.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
實行上的那個態度有很多很多嘛你不要在火上加油讓我們這個這個已經很慘了會不會說明我們願意來跟醫院來協助他們相關的法尊的輔導我想這我們都願意做但是我們做這件事情正是我想大家都很在意醫護人員的勞動權益我們真的是因為重視醫護人員的勞動權益到時候醫院就一句話就都吵死了現在在開刀開刀棒已經滿載了 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
800.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
801.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我們其實針對緊急性的連續手術其實是我們有開了一個這個牢記法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
820.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
846.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
相對應的這個彈性其實如果是因為緊急手術他沒有辦法如時間的下班的話其實在這邊是有彈性的所以沒有那個問題其實我們現在看到最多違反的問題就是不給加班費這個我們要不給加班費這有助於流財嗎不給加班費難道我們就是應該沒有沒有醫療案者醫療案者的薪資的調整我在這裡也跟你承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
848.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
858.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
衛福給我們的錢 健保提供員的錢我們大部分都用在改善勞動條件 增加薪資這個我們可以承諾 我們也可以責成醫院協會跟區域醫學院協會 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
859.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
868.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
每一張碼放在一起都在改善 市場已經改善 大家都變變變從現在從數據上面 統計上面看到最多的就是沒有如實給加班費 這個我們來努力這個難道不給加班費 勞動部可以放鬆嗎好 來來來 農業部 來來來我還有30秒 30秒就好委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
887.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
895.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
現在很多市街市地的在陳情陳情都是我跟張嘉軒在接我平常都在市地市街市街兩個我們現在榮譽木美國進來的這些產品我們的關稅是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
903.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
912.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
差不多6.5我們的平均關稅是16.6我們去美國是平均5.幾那我們像豬肉進來的關稅是12.5我們給他收12.5現在如果他全部要求我們都領關稅像那個越南像印尼這樣全部領那我們會不會崩盤 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
921.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
931.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
應該是這樣說啦 其實美國跟我們的農產品貿易本來就是互相大家有來有去譬如說我們的黃小玉大部分都從美國來我們這裡去美國的也有我們的譬如說我們蘭花啦 這裡的花卉 水產品所以本來就是互相在搭的啊 但是當然是臺灣的過程當中一定是大家在那我也要替我們臺灣的農業顧 啊他也相當希望他的農產品來臺灣民關稅的話 那個譬如豬肉 牛肉本來就進來很多啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
949.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
971.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那豬肉的話,現在進來的,如果是零關稅,這樣大舉入侵進來到30%的話,我們的豬籠是會崩潰的喔?你們要怎麼補貨,你們有配套嗎?我們特別預算上禮拜通過5000多億,裡面有一部要給農業的,夠不夠?沒有的話它是沒有屋頂的喔,我們是打開屋頂 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
972.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
974.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
我們台灣的豬肉一公斤是95塊成本美國進來是差不多60塊如果在12.5%的關稅拿掉剩下50塊不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
996.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1018.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
省一半 那個地板很細那牛肉 阿賴 雞肉 蚵仔 蚵仔我都拖拖所以稻米 稻米現在美國每年出口320萬噸比台灣出產的還多那這個我們稻米現在一公斤也是50塊嘛那美國進來的才35塊如果要零關稅的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1020.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1032.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
所以我賺了20幾塊 30塊我們台灣人賺的錢跟賣的錢 日本傢伙要賺的錢賺的錢嘛 對不對坦白說我昨天站在我們台灣人都站不住了今天你站不住啦 站不住要怎麼補貨啦站不住啦 站不住啦 拜託大家支持啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1036.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1046.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
那個萊克多巴胺那個也要堅持一下你們也要國內的萊克多巴胺不使用所以萊克多巴胺不可以在美國進來0.4 0.9這個要有好的配套啦這個很重要很重要很重要謝謝委員謝謝 |