| IVOD_ID |
163173 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163173 |
| 日期 |
2025-07-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
20 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-07-16T13:47:27+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-07-16T14:06:49+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:19:22 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7c9429a73bae53e04e2a6bc837e127d91b1d72feb9295bd2cb39599f5d4f45698b571ebbc9e398835ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳瑩 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:47:27 - 14:06:49 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-07-16T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、經濟部部長、海洋委員會、農業部、內政部、國防部、金融監督管理委員會針對「光電設施對環境影響情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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好 謝謝主席 麻煩先請嚴署長部長先休息 待會再上來委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
21.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
43.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
欸 署長好是謝謝你去台東好 謝謝委員我們下次再去好 謝謝那我們看一下 這是去年11月27日審查今年的中央政府總預算案關於環境部主管公務及基金預算那署長你回覆本席提案說明的報導看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
44.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
68.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
幫你恢復一下記憶那本席提出環境部自2008年起政府開始推廣衛生紙丟馬桶的概念但是依照環境部調查顯示實際2024年呢仍然有55%的民眾使用公廁之後呢將衛生紙丟入馬桶那除了會造成這個臭味彌漫文淫滋生之外呢衛生紙 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
69.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
85.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
残留的这个粪便也可能有导致痢疾A肝还有肠病毒等等的这个病菌传播然后让这个后续使用者呢有这个染疫风险以外呢也增加了这个清洁人员的清扫时间还有这个成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
87.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
107.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那當時呢署長的回覆是全台僅剩下10%的管線老舊廁所可標示應投入馬桶或垃圾桶那其餘都鼓勵應投入馬桶我想請教一下這個10%的管線老舊統計數據是環管署統計出來的嗎還是說這個從哪裡來 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
118.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
137.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
你們統計是的是這樣子就是說我們在各環保局這邊都會去把公測做一個調查跟督導那發現大概有10%他是以管縣老舊的名義來貼那個標籤說不要丟入這個馬桶而要丟入這個垃圾桶 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
140.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
151.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我確認一下我怕我理解錯誤就是說這10%其實是各地他們統計公測的部分的10% |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
153.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
164.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
而不是一個全國性統計的資料因為我們辦公室真的找了很久目前找不到全國性的統計資料特別是針對廁所管線老舊的建築跟比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
173.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
189.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那但是我們能夠很確定的就是說至少在立法院我們現在在的這一棟樓還有我的研究室青島一館還有可能搞不好你們環管署的大樓也是屬於 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
192.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
212.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這個沒有辦法把衛生紙丟進馬桶的這種廁所吧是 保委員 這個也其實是誤會我們請教了很多專家 我們也做過實驗其實只要這個排泄物能夠通過的衛生紙一定能夠通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
213.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
231.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
衛生紙的水溶性是比排泄物還要高衛生紙是短纖而我們的排泄物有部分是長纖所以管線老舊這件事情不是衛生紙的問題而是管線它應該去清的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
232.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
246.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
所以衛生紙它是冤枉的我們還是希望所有人把衛生紙只要廁所它能夠使用就應該把衛生紙丟入馬桶不要再丟在垃圾桶裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
248.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
266.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
好今天得到一個驚人的結論原來衛生紙是無辜的是那面紙呢能丟嗎面紙絕對不能丟面紙它是長鉛加思強劑它在水中是不容易分散分解的 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
267.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
296.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
所以如果短纖的衛生紙可以溶解意思就是說我們其實接下來只要處理管線老舊就是把它通一通所有的我們除了面紙以外我們一般擦的那個衛生紙丟進去都可以丟到馬桶裡面所以變成如果糞便是長纖的就不行 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
301.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
315.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我是按照署長的邏輯去講包委員我們應該這樣講就是說那個馬桶除了衛生紙其他的都不要丟進去這是最簡單的一個講法 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
317.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
346.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
會阻塞的原因絕對不是衛生紙我們去清從來沒有看過一張衛生紙是在馬桶裡面阻塞都是面紙或者是尿布抹布等等或者兒童玩具在裡面阻塞的或者是有人倒廚宇在裡面那這樣好我來請教一下因為因為今天得到這個驚人的結論之後我這一題後面也是開花了啦那我還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
347.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
374.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
但我們還是可以得到一個重要的結論如果按照如果署長你今天講的都是對的那表示我們現在全國我起碼我做的功課2024年全台屋齡超過30年以上建築物的這個占比超過45%而且這些建築物的廁所跟排水管的管線未曾全面更新所以這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
375.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
404.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這些這麼高比例的老舊的這些管線我們其實就是給它認真給它清通我們的衛生紙都可以全部丟進去了謝謝委員是嗎正確的因為我們的管線從日治時期到現在污水管都是4英寸我們的馬桶那個存水彎出去是2英寸所以我們不一定要換但是我們要常常給它通 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
407.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
419.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
對那能不能麻煩你建議我們立法院的總務我們很願意建議管縣都...部長受不了要站起來部長說 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
421.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
440.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
包圍了喔 因為我們這個從去年底我們就關注去年的時候我上任的時候我們部的同仁就跟我報告因為跟我們報告這個沈世宏前署長的時候我是不能丟然後李應元當署長的時候開始要推要丟然後他們就要問我說 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
440.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
457.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我要到底決定要丟或不丟然後我就覺得很奇怪然後後來我們就討論了之後要從科學來解決所以我們後來決定支持而且我們為了這個事情還到日本去看日本沒有那種衛生紙丟在這個垃圾桶的啦有一些小的給女性的一些用品可以丟啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
458.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
480.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那不過我們國人的這個認知習慣真的很不好所以也謝謝委員你有這個機會讓大家都知道因為我們的國人習慣面子也丟什麼東西都丟廚藝都丟因為馬桶就會不見一樣那樣的話會讓那個這個馬桶那個管線會開始有結構啦結構之後其實找通水管通一通就不會堵塞了 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
481.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
507.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那個署長對不起我其實今天是也想做球給你我沒有要找你麻煩那這個委員這個我們是不是我們來因為立法院可以做的太多包含立法院那個蠻耗能的立法院這個東西也不符合時代的規範我們在推動這個政策然後立法院卻不能把衛生紙丟進去所以看召委是不是交代我們來處理一下我們來幫忙 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
512.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
527.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我們乾脆搬家好了比較實在好那這樣子啦我就是其實我們回歸到這個很嚴肅的講一個政策的推動不要因為署長在換就改來改去那我們也是無所適從 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
528.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
556.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那政策要推動我們也要先了解實際的狀況還有真正誰是誰是原罪誰是無辜的我們真的錯怪衛生紙所以這個部分我想你們還是好好研議一下下次好好上來表現一下這樣子好不好因為我們有努力把所有的衛生紙的公司去跟他談那現在26個品牌現在市面上買的都可以丟進去的以前沒有啦以前只有幾種 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
558.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
575.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
好 謝謝那個我真的對昭緯很抱歉喔因為颱風讓我把颱風的這個電板的問題問完我們就結束其他的我都不要問了啦這樣好不好太陽能辦因為這個其實它只是一題結果我們都要驚人的答案 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
577.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
590.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我就說開花了啊所以就變成這樣但也謝謝今天的美麗的意外好 那個署長你請回座那我請彭部長跟經濟部次長希望後面不要再開花了 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
592.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
618.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那個好因為這次丹納斯颱風再來災情我們的認知就是說都是農損是為這個農損的這個是比較主要的但是沒有想到我們嘉南地區這次傳出來竟然有那麼多的這個太陽能電板散布在農田然後有的還甚至被吹落在海域那引發就是說這個社會高度的這個關注那 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
620.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
649.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
因为我刚刚听到就是说刚才特别那个能源署的代理署长回复这个刘委员他有提到就是说一般回损回损的这个太阳能板都是由厂商去支付这个回收处理的这个费用是这个问题那但是现在这次那个台风17级的飓风那有的就吹的到处都是那你怎么去分辨 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
651.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
667.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
說還是誰要去撿回來然後我們去研究說這一片是哪個廠商的這是一個問題嘛我不知道誰會去做應該是環境部吧包括每個面板下面都有一個貼一個東西每一片都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
669.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
694.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
所以你們做完之後那經濟部會做代位求償這件事嗎還是誰就直接因為他設置的時候他現在的規定是分十年嘛那分十年他繳收回收金那這個繳收回收金到基金裡面這邊來那當然環境部他有推動一些回收的業者那回收業者去處理的時候他就可以來跟這個基金來申請這個費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
696.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
710.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
好那所以基本上我們還是冤有頭債有主還找得到債主就對了OK好謝謝那我想就是說因為在就是說這次的這個災損的容量容量為這個47MW然後佔全國14.6GW的總裝置容量大概是0.3%那這樣的數據就是說還好 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
720.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
741.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
就是說損害的比例沒有很高但是呢整體受損的電廠還是有40座那大型水面的案場4案那地面的1案那小型光電業25案還有非電業的案場有10案我想要請教就是說那如果這樣受損僅佔0.3%那目前全台到底設置了多少太陽能的電廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
743.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
757.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
全台的話大型的部分大概有300多個然後比較小型的案場差不多7萬5千個那當然這個屋頂型的部分是更是比較零落然後不計其數 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
759.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
780.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那如委員所說的這次當然是颱風然後雖然說他直接的襲擊我們的西部走廊地區但是事實上所有的這個光電99.5%我們的我們目前統計的資料是0.4%是受損害的0.4%好那所以大概你說這樣總數加起來大約幾座 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
786.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
811.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
應該有7萬7萬快7萬6千6千多處 好好謝謝那因為你們在審核這個太陽能電廠的時候有沒有訂定統一的標準當然有 而且我們現在還僅僅3月31號之後還有我們最近我們跟農業部針對一致的審查標準更加的有再提高因為這次即便你們本來就有訂說要耐要耐到17級風但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
814.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
832.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
還是這個是我們目前預告的法案我們這個目前預告的法案那你們有所以也會納入這個颱風地震跟環境有趣的這個風險因素都會納進去喔這個我們當然是會把這個部分考慮進來那目前台東縣有多少的太陽能電廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
835.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
861.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
抱歉委員我現在腦海裡面沒有這個數據是不是容我會後提供給你好沒關係但未來臺東還會再規劃設置新的嗎原則上我們希望說對於環境的融合以環境的融合為主因為我目前也不多就台鐵然後泰瑪麗香宮所跟達魯瑪克我們比較知道的是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
862.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
883.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那就是说当然地方政府的这个政策态度对于光电场域的这个设置的整个造成实质的影响其实应该算是很重要的那目前我们受损的40个电厂已经轻运了34场那带轻运了6个 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
884.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
907.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
其中五場大型案場已經請廠商進行清運中那一場小型水面型的因為當地停電跟道路受阻所以預計廠修後會進行勘驗修復那我想進一步了解就是說這些受損的電板是屬於失業廢棄物那就是說麻煩你們說明一下就是說這個清運跟處理的程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
908.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
935.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
好 包委員那個清運是我們現在有要求那個業者大的業者大概兩個禮拜內一定要把它清掉不清掉我們就要罰了那因為他們現在是受災戶等於是颱風的受災戶我們這個跟我們一般民眾受到的影響是一樣我們給他們一點點的寬容然後另外一個是他兩個禮拜清完小的大概要一個禮拜一個禮拜一定要把它清完不然的話要開罰然後他清完之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
936.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
962.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
它目前有一些已經跟處理業者簽約了太陽能板回收的處理業者送到處理業者處理的話目前我們開放它的量能能夠大一點點所以預計那邊的處理量能完成大概要一個半月那損壞太陽能板是不是還可以回收再利用會 我們目前算到像我禮拜六去看一家廠商它回收率大概92% |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
964.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
986.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那也還算還不錯那因為過去這些電廠設置需不需要做環境影響評估那目前針對不同型態的電廠會不會是否有這個相關的環評標準因為以前是只有針對濕地然後我們今年1月我們公布了一個法令增加了非常的多而且山坡地是20MW |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
987.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1014.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
還有15公頃都要環評那目前社會上的聲音是蠻多的希望能夠加嚴那我們現在也在考慮也會跟能源署來討論這個事情因為要不要做環評才是重點因為你在怎麼規定面積怎麼樣那個都是上有政策下有對策所以外界是非常關心水面型的光電暗場的設置依據我想請教海上的電廠設置的法源是什麼大概平均壽命多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1015.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1036.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
海上現在目前還在試驗目前屏東那一個是試驗計畫那他目前正在進行試驗那還沒完成那以目前來看他目前試驗的沒有成功那他可能還要再回去做改善那如果他願意繼續做試驗他再去修正之後再做試驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1038.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1055.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
它是一個實驗計畫它沒有核准設置我想就是說後續我們這個災後的太陽能板的清潤我們很關心說到底有沒有這個有毒物質流入海洋 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1055.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1068.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
那你們也有發新聞稿說明你們主張說不會造成汙染但是因為我們不清楚依據是什麼是來自廠商的書面資料還是根據這個具體的這個學理跟實際監測的結果好 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1070.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1100.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
學理上是沒有那我也我這個禮拜六也去實際上的這個處理廠商我一個一個看他拆解完了東西那我也可以確認沒有那我為了這個這個的這個嚴謹性我們禮拜一有請我們水保師去嘉義台南四個地方去測水質有沒有一個禮拜後因為有些掉到這個水池了嘛這個餘溫了嘛那目前我們看到重金屬的污染可以有的是大概有六五到六項是零檢出所以目前來看的話大概是沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1101.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1124.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
再延長持續的那個採樣跟監測是有必要的啦那也就是說我們當然就是說藉這一次的經驗我想本席具體建議就是說持續做這個實地的環境採樣跟監測然後實證是否有這個毒性物質的外洩 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1126.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1149.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
最後就是說我們不要忽略還有這個過去不少這個職業災害的這個發生因為這個光電設施的這個裝設跟維運的部分有上升的趨勢這個部分是你們其實也是你們環境部的責任那也請你們納入相關作業人員的這個職業災害預防的機制跟指引 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1152.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1154.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
好,沒問題,謝謝謝謝陳委員,謝謝部長、次長本日會議詢問全部結束委員盧憲 |