| IVOD_ID |
16313 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16313 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-27 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-35-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
18 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-27T08:29:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-27T11:10:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
02:40:01 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2d10a4e4aede9319889b5fa2f296a93534b104c5adbfed68f77b162e55c392cee75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-27T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家安全局、文化部、內政部警政署、大陸委員會報告「從『國有器官』在台播映困境看中國對台灣的長臂管轄策略，及我國的因應方案」，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:29:59 - 11:10:00 |
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報告委員會出席委員8人以足法定人數好我們開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第17次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國113年11月25日星期一上午9時至10時30分地點黃樓301會議室出席委員陳永康等8人列席委員鄭天才等10人 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1949.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1963.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
請教委員沈伯陽、林楚英、列席人員、國防部部長顧立雄及所屬人員、主席王昭吉委員定語。報告是想依宣讀上次會議思路決定確定。二、邀請國防部報告列銷這案執行規劃並備質詢。國防部部長顧立雄及陸軍司令部參謀長曾建議報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1969.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1991.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
委員盧敏林等8人質詢軍有國防部部長顧立雄、主計局局長謝啟賢、戰略規劃師師長黃文啟陸軍司令部參謀長陳建義及海軍司令部參謀長邱俊榮等即席答覆決定登記質詢在場委員均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束二委員所提口頭及書面質詢未即答覆或要求提供資資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1993.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
2019.463 |
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請國防部與歐洲立書面答覆本會全體委員並複製本會委員令指定期限者從其所定三委員：林毅君、沈伯陽、林楚英及蘇謙權等四人所提書面諮詢列入記錄刊登公報宣讀完畢請問在場委員對於上一次會議議事錄有沒有遺漏、錯誤或需要更正的地方沒有的話我們議事錄確定請議事人員宣讀今天的報告事項 |
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2021.087 |
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2033.176 |
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報告事項：邀請國家安全局、文化部、內政部警政署、大陸委員會報告．從《國有器官》在台播映困境看中國對台灣的長臂管轄策略．及我國的因應方案．並備質詢。 |
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2039.059 |
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2063.586 |
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好 我們在介紹我們在場的委員跟官員之前先跟本委員會宣告幾項事情第一個 國安局長蔡明彥局長因為有公務那也事前向本席請假獲准所以今天國安局由張副局長袁斌代為列席向本委員會的同仁報告第二 有關這一個國有器官 |
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2064.706 |
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2085.515 |
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這個影片其實喜不喜歡看是另外一件事情但卻因為來自中國的恐嚇導致在各地的播放變成都無法播放那中國透過各種方式的長臂管轄侵害我國的不管是司法管轄權或者是我們境內的主權那甚至有境外的問題所以今天安排這樣的主題那這個主題 |
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2088.516 |
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2118.056 |
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第一次進到我們國會裡面來那也謝謝各位媒體朋友的關注也謝謝我們今天登記發言的委員你可以很明顯發現今天登記發言的委員跟以往比起來史上第一次這麼少是什麼原因是出於巧合還是出於什麼那我們就是好奇好我們在場的委員謝謝陳永康委員以及羅美玲委員沈伯陽委員另外我們今天列席的官員由國安局副局長蔣元斌 |
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2120.696 |
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2147.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
政務次長王石思影視及流行音樂發展司司長吳怡璇文化交流司專門委員梁玉芬影視及流行音樂產業局副局長呂美麗內政部警政署由副署長李政曉刑事警察局副局長林信雄 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2150.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2159.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
科技犯罪防治中心主任林建隆陸委會副主委沈有忠文教處處長張璋 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2166.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2186.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那本日會議邀請國安局、文化部、內政部警政署及陸委會報告從國有器官在台播映困境看中國對台灣的長臂管轄策略．及我國的因應方案．並備質詢首先請國安局張副局長上台報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2197.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2223.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
主席、各位委員先進、各位女士、先生大家好感謝大院安排本局進行《從國有器官在台播映困境看中國對台灣的長臂管轄策略．及我國的應處方案》專題報告本局僅以中理國家安全情報工作立場提出說明及意見向大院各位委員報告重點如此 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2225.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2251.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
1.國內播映國有器官影城遭恐嚇案情近期國內影城播映國有器官紀錄片揭露中共高官活摘人體器官以達嚴肅目的的不法行為今年10月,文化部、高雄市議會及台北市喜樂時代影城、南港電等處所陸續接獲疑似網軍寄送網路恐嚇電郵 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2253.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2264.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
動稱以製作多顆遙控炸彈並放置隱藏不想引爆炸彈請取消國有器官播出等恐嚇內容謀圖阻止影片播放 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2266.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2283.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
自今年10月至11月22日國內影城、政府、議會、學校及媒體等單位共接獲28起恐嚇案件以高雄市7案最多、臺北市、新北市、宜蘭市及刑事局各3案次之 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2284.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2313.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
查處情形警政署、刑事局調閱恐嚇電郵來源IP位置以法國8案最多、波蘭6案次之、美國、中國各5案、德國、香港及英國各2案具以研判、範顯CTO、VPN、虛擬私人網路、跳板、程式寄送恐嚇電郵目前國內尚未發生恐嚇內容所稱自放爆裂物或實際危害情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2314.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2325.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
各縣市警察局克強化影城周邊的巡守及轄內安全維護等作為。中共對台長臂管轄策略及太陽 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2327.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2350.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
在策略議題部分．中共對台長臂管轄．以兩岸統一為終極目標．在政治、經濟、社會、文化及軍事等層面．採取系列威脅及干預手段．企圖在國際孤立台灣．削弱台灣主權．在台內部營造反毒觸統氛圍．在案例樣態部分有以下幾點一 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2353.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2382.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
侵犯我政府管轄權．在國系聲稱對台具管轄權．妄圖架空我政府主權．形塑台灣隸屬中國假象．例如去年9月公布領事保護與協助條例．聲稱適用對象包含台灣民眾．並中共外交部今年8月針對我漁船遭日本扣押表達抗議．妄稱日方無權對中方漁船執法． |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2384.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2401.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
2、制定國安法規管轄涉台事務中共近年陸續更新或頒布《國安法》、《反間諜法》、《反恐法》、《網路安全法》等國安法規將台灣納入適用範圍,並依法要求各級政府機構、企業 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2403.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2423.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
社會團體及所有公民配合保防、反恐、網絡金融管制等措施增添國人賦入風險。強化反讀法律的懲治工作片面透過涉台法令及所謂台獨頑固分子清單加大威嚇力度 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2424.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2442.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
如今年的6月發布懲讀22條意見明定所謂台獨犯罪樣態及刑責其授權其法院可進行缺席審判令操作舉報制度企圖將反獨法令向我境內延伸是 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2444.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2472.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
依中共法令逮捕我公民依照中共境內法令逮捕我國人民並盡致審判擴張對台司法管轄權如指控我國人李明哲、楊志淵違反其所謂顛覆國家政權罪分裂國家罪並加以囚禁、判刑迄今遭羈押審判人數達20人五、借海外情報網威脅國人安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2473.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2500.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
透過華僑團體、統戰組織等協力者．將包括國人在內的海外華人列為勤收、監控對象．甚至予以恐嚇．如中共在全球各地設置井橋驛站．召訓領事志願者．並指示海外統促會、留學生等組織．針對特定海外國人進行監控、勤收等任務。．因應方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2503.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2528.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
祕註中共對台網路恐嚇中共為影響我政府施政透遊寄送網路恐嚇興建等製造國內恐慌如110至112年署名張海川及本年國有器官等網路恐嚇案本局根據注收令加強國內重要處所安全防護確保國人安全及社會安定 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2530.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2554.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
提升國人安全意識中共透由制定《國安法》整讀二十二條意見及設置警察驛站等作為對台威嚇、監控特定對象、形塑對台管轄權本局根據密鑄中共對台各類作為及安全威脅事實揭露中共圖謀提升國人安全意識確保國人人身安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2557.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2577.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
強化國際情報合作．本局綿密與國際合作有方．與我理念相近國家聯繫．強化情報合作．分享機制．機先掌握中共對台長臂管轄圖謀．做法及對我威脅等情．及時研擬應處作為．提供政府及行政機關參儲．維護國家整體安全韌性最後報告結語 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2581.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2607.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
中共對台長臂管轄屬多維度統戰作為既透游滲透威脅及操控等手段削弱台灣主體性國安團隊持續強化國際情報合作及國內安全防護等作為防範中共對台干預以上報告敬請大院委員先進不吝指導並持續對國安工作給予大力支持謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2609.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2614.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
好謝謝國安局副局長的報告接下來我們請文化部王政務次長進行報告主席、各位委員、各位先生女士大家好今天因大院外交及國安委員會的邀請就從國有器官在台播映困境中看台灣對中國對台灣的長臂管轄策略及我國的因應方案提出報告並備詢進行各位委員指教那第一個先說明國有器官這個紀錄片的基本資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2637.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2660.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
《國有器官》是一個75分鐘的紀錄片,呃,呈現的是中國大規模活摘器官牟利的事件。那台灣在今年的7月15號進行首場的試映,10月1號開始正式上映,出品國是加拿大。台灣的發行商是雄獅影視文化有限公司,本編的導演張敬勇是加拿大籍的華裔電影工作者。那此片也獲得2023年加拿大電影雄獅獎的最佳導演。 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2661.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2678.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
最佳音樂獎以及2024年藝術電影的精神獎目前也在角逐2025年奧斯卡的最佳紀錄片獎那目前為止依照全國電影票房的統計到11月17號累計的是114萬7千多元的票房那目前還有部分的戲院在上映中那除了基本的 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2680.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2704.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
上檔之外片上也提供包場的服務那第二個我們來說明一道審議分級來確保台灣電影這個上映的權益本片在今年的4月22號向我們的影視局申請分級審議那影視局依據進口出版品電影片錄影節目及廣播電視節目原產地認定的基準來依序認定本地的原產地那因為本片的出品方導演製片都是加拿大級那就依規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2705.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2731.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
以電影片投資最大的投資者所屬的國籍或地區來認定,認定該片原產地是加拿大那也在5月29號依電影片跟廣告片的審議分析處理跟廣告宣傳片的使用辦法來審議分級是保護級所以本片可以依一般電影跟戲院洽商上檔的上映的檔期跟上映模式在全台的戲院都可以上映本片在申請跟審議的程序上跟一般電影的申請公開放映程序是沒有差別的 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2731.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2754.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
以舊產地認定、分級審議的都有基本的權力保障我們恰片商本片的分級審議通過之後有陸續已經在16家的戲院影廳來做播映其中有9家是也提供包場的服務目前仍然持續上映的還有6家哪些家數就請大家參考我就不一一去陳述 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2755.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2776.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那因為發生了恐怖的事件,片商後續也有一些也調整了播映的模式,那透過包場或者是借用場地的方式,所以到目前有在放的場地其實有14處,14中其中有9家是戲院,那其他也包括非戲院的部分,但是他們也用有現有的播映設備跟場地來進行包場。那另外就是說明文化部跟這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2779.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2806.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
電影院收到恐嚇狀況的說明那《國有器官》上映之後因為各地的電影院、中央單位、地方政府、議會等等還有服務處等等都有收到這個假名的恐嚇信件將近30封那剛剛國安局有說是28封那揚言要在電影院放炸彈威脅的訊息那所以文化部收到恐嚇澄清之後呢我們是在10月25號接獲本片的人名澄清那澄清的信件內容是警告本部的部分樓層 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2808.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2821.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
就是文化部的部分部樓層被放置了爆裂物：如果沒有配合與其縣內取消國有器官的全台上映權：並且發公告要引爆爆裂物：那我們接獲這個訊息之後立刻由政風處來通知警政署： |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2821.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2850.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
也陪同警方逐樓進行安全檢查但並沒有查獲任何可疑物或爆裂物不過本部也因此加強因應要求輸入要佩戴識別證、售號卡跟周邊的巡邏等等那各大戲院受到恐嚇之後我們是在10月9號獲知有隱成受到威脅要取消放映那因為牽涉到關於民眾跟工作人員的安全所以我們當天就立刻請警政署來協處地方警政單位競速的來協助避免影響公共安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2850.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2868.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那警政署也在10月14號有含附說其實他們都有去巡邏也有去確認那都沒有發現所謂暴獵物跟實質危害的事件那警政署也已經請轄區的警察機關加強巡守跟安全維護也跟業者建立了管道那如果有什麼事件也會直接來做聯繫 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2871.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2899.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
那對文化部的立場來說從本次的事件我們可以看出來的是部分團體或人民對於涉及政治敏感議題的干預但是呢台灣對於支持電影影像呈現多元議題的這個立場的不會改變不會因為威脅而有所妥協那未來本部也會持續保障電影公開放映的權利嚴守分級審議的原則如果有遭受威脅的時候會保持跟警政單位的密切合作確保戲院跟觀眾的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2899.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2917.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那針對近來很多兩岸藝文工作者在交流衍生的政治表態、自由的這些問題本部的立場始終抱持尊重創作自由對文化藝術保持開放的態度沒有涉及任何特定的政治立場未來本部也會持續提高民眾對媒體氏族的能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2917.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2942.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
珍惜台灣民主自由的價值共同守護台灣文化的多元性那我們希望長期鼓勵兩岸文化跟媒體的交流也持續透過跨機關的聯繫來機制跟陸委會跟國安局都有密切的橫向聯繫希望共同堅持兩岸文化交流的推動要秉持互相尊重和平對等的原則來進行以上報告請委員執教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2944.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2948.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
好 謝謝那我們接下來請陸委會省副主委進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2961.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2976.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
主席、各位委員、各位女士、各位先生、各位在場的先進朋友,大家早。那麼承蒙貴委員會的邀請,陸委會就從《國有器官在台播映困境看中國對台灣的長臂管轄策略．及我國的因應方案》來進行報告,請各位指教。 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2977.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
3000.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
首先要強調的是,台灣是重視言論表意自由,我們並不容許中共能夠肆意侵害。台灣是一個自由、開放、多元的社會,各類的影音作品可以在台灣播映,來分享創作的成果。民眾也可以透過不同的聲音、立場和觀點的展現,來對於這個社會做更真實、深刻的認識和了解。這個是民主包容的真正價值。 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3001.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3027.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
和中國大陸僅容許官方的聲音、單一的思考這樣子的一種獨裁體制跟思維是截然不同的。那麼第二個陸委會認為中共對內持續的強化社會的監控、牽制中國大陸人民的思想與創作那麼為了維持中共內部政權的穩定、例行愛國主義的教育並且來用更多元的方式、更多的手段來進行嚴厲的言論的管控跟牽制 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3028.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3048.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
持續由中共的宣傳部門來主導推出符合他們立場的主旋律的一些影視作品也壓縮了在中國演藝人員的一個創作空間迫使其有理想的藝文工作者走出海外我想各位今年的金馬獎如果有關注到的話有相當多的得獎的作品 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3049.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3051.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
中共對於運用外交及經濟資源來打壓異議的聲音,包裝美化,作為其形象的假象 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3066.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3090.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
那麼為了擴展它的影響力並且爭取國際的話語權中共也經常使用這種威脅、壓制、不受認可的這些報導和作品或者是主導來邀請媒體、網紅到中國大陸走訪並且刻意安排一些行程來消彌對中國有關的一些負面行為企圖要掩蓋中國大陸經濟社會發展的一些負面的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3091.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3115.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
那在自由之家的相關報告也曾經指出過中共運用外交的這個恐嚇、網路的霸凌甚至是經濟施壓等手段來宣傳親近北京的言論並且有散播虛假訊息的這樣子一個作為第四中共內部用國內的法律來鋪墊其對台管轄的正當性並且來形塑對於台灣具有管轄權的假象 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3115.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3144.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
那我們發現中共在2015年起透過一系列的國安立法比如說國家安全法、網路安全法等等來強化意識形態的控制和統治甚至在2023年通過了這個新修訂的反間諜法來去運用眾多不確定的法律概念模糊的空間來搭配舉報信箱等措施來強化對台的恫嚇效果希望能夠用國內法律的這樣子的一個意向來達到他長臂管轄的一種錯誤認知 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3146.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3172.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
那針對國有器官這部紀錄片經過了核准之後在台播映政府也會持續的密註片中所揭露出的這個相關議題那我們發現到在中國大陸移植器官的這個來源向來是受到國際社會的質疑和批評中共在2023年12月14號公布了新版的人體器官捐獻和移植條例那麼若干的這個條文定義模糊也引發了背後是不是有暗藏黑幕的疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3173.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3193.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
這部片由加拿大的華裔導演所編劇來製作的《國有器官》內容就是聚焦在揭發中共涉嫌強摘器官侵害人權的內容也引起了全球各界的關注本會也會繼續給予密註在因應作為的部分第一個陸委會還是要強調兩岸互不隸屬 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3195.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3218.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
針對破壞台灣社會安定的這個惡意舉措我們會依法來嚴查那麼中華民國是一個主權的國家中共對於台灣不具有管轄權台灣2300萬人民依據中華民國的憲法享有不可剝奪的自由民主的權利那麼對於刻意要影響我國社會安定的還有秩序的這個作為政府都會有相關的這個注意並且依法來嚴處 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3220.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3246.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
反制中共對台惡意操作跟威嚇．並且即時的來澄清、遏止、錯假訊息的一個蔓延我們針對中共企圖透過各種管道來散播不實的訊息影響國內輿情跟社會安定行政院已經設立了即時新聞澄清專區法務部的調查局也成立了認知作戰研究中心等我們未來會發現如果有散佈不實訊息危害國家安全等歧視將會依法處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3247.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3258.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
那第三陸委會也會協同各部會一起來加強媒體嗜讀還有負入風險的一些宣導強化國人對於民主防衛的力量那麼我們會繼續的來適時宣導注意兩岸交流的規範並且同時呢也 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3262.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3286.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
提醒國人要注意中國大陸相關潛藏的一些政治風險本會也會透過補助委辦中國大陸試讀跟兩岸關係的相關課程希望我們的民眾和青年學生可以更多的瞭解現階段的一個兩岸關係以及中國大陸內部的情況那麼第四我們也會主張強化跟國際的合作並且適時揭露中國大陸內部的一些問題跟真相 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3286.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3303.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
那麼我們有鑒於中共近年來在全球積極地來進行各種政治干預跟經濟恫嚇陸委會將會強化和國際的學術機構、智庫等合作來透過資訊的揭露、分享以及及時的澄清來提升國人對於中國大陸真實的一個情況的一個認知 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3305.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3333.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
最後結語的部分我們還是要強調台灣是一個民主法治的國家個人的言論和創作自由都是受到法律的保障那麼《國有器官》這部紀錄片在台灣的上映受到阻撓就如同中共處心積慮的要去掩蓋事實的真相那麼只會加深台灣民眾對中國大陸的一些負面印象那麼政府相關機構以及本會都會密切的繼續關注那依法來這個嚴查違法的情勢來保障台灣的民主自由 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3334.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3344.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
充分的來體現台灣的民主的韌性以上報告進行執教謝謝好謝謝沈副主委接下來最後進行報告是內政部警政署李副署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3350.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3376.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
主席、各位委員、議會先進大家好感謝各位委員對於網路頻繁滋擾事件．對於國內特定議題干預之重視與關心本署警究以下報告,敬請各位委員指教第一,國有器官滋擾的事件近期前台各轄區警察局通報因轄內影城放映電影．引發不同人士故意留言恐嚇滋擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3378.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3406.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
目前共計有30案．經調查研判．該恐嚇案．跟112年10月間．我國民意代表遭受恐嚇滋擾案件的手法相近．系位於大陸第7次犯險慣用滋擾手法．並刻意將恐嚇內容激發媒體業者．意圖透由刑侮大肆報導．製造大眾恐慌．藉此虛耗我國行政資源． |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3408.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3409.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
我們的因應措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3410.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3436.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
第一,持續推動檢舉信箱實施多因子的認證．自網路炸彈滋擾案件發生以來．實施多因子認證的單位．都未再接獲相關恐嚇的信息．近期,國內多家影城留言．留言板遭冒用第三人電子郵件進行恐嚇留言．初步調查留言機制．未驗證電子郵件尊為．為各警察機關經積極應變、應處． |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3440.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3449.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
維護各場域及人員安全我們呼籲應持續推動多因子認證防度有心人士的滋擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3450.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3472.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
2先導民眾網路留言正確處置的觀念．會顯留言亦有藉電子郵件投書新聞媒體之趨勢．極易引起新聞媒體及民眾過度恐慌．參考美國國土安全部網路安全與基礎設施安全局．首發布的炸彈威脅指南． |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3472.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3493.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
包括﹐切勿關閉或登出帳號﹐保持裝置開啟﹐列印拍照截圖或複製﹐注意日期時間﹐通知有關部門。我們呼籲民眾如有收到類似的恐嚇﹐公眾內容之電子郵件﹐切勿轉傳﹐並立即報案及提供完整資訊﹐協助調查。 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3495.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3521.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
推動國際及兩岸協查的機制．本屬刑事警察局．積極推動通信保障及監察法修法．完整保存國內電信業者網路流量的紀錄．以因應境內網路匿蹤的犯罪．持續透過國際執法單位合作及兩岸共同打擊犯罪的機制．加強情資交流、案件合作及共同打擊犯罪． |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3523.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3537.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
第四,成立專業小組全國聯訪,行事警察局已由成立專業小組統籌各轄區的警察局積極偵辦,未來將持續辦理,維持社會安定並保障民眾生命財產安全。 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3538.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3567.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
．以行事警察局對於近來發生全國性恐嚇放置炸彈案件．以統籌各轄級警察局積極偵辦中．對於恐嚇遭放置炸彈地點．各轄級警察局嚴謹藉後通報．第一時間經積極查處．目前均未發現爆裂物及實際危害事件．警方並以各通報作業者建立聯繫管道．同時加強尋守及安全維護． |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3568.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3569.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
以上報告 恭請指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3600.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3603.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
謝謝主席 有請副局長 還有警政署副署長 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3615.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3633.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
喂好你好那這個目前齁我們這個中國的威脅當然是加劇齁但是最近其實統戰活動也真的非常的多然後加上這一次的恐嚇案件齁應該是層出不窮齁那我大概有幾個小問題想要先確認一下就是說這個一開始我們這一個事件發生的時候呢然後就發現說有這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3635.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3662.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
按照報告指出有炸彈恐嚇的訊息目前共計30案等等之類的那我想問一下就是說第一個就是我們的反應時間目前來講就是說這件事情從發生一直到第一個我們接獲訊息接獲訊息之後我們馬上處理這個處理的時間大概是多快以及我們是多快去研判說這個可能是由敵對國家的勢力所發出的 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3665.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3682.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
跟委員報告相關的實際的應處我們在接獲民眾通報以後就立刻應處那處理查處溯源這些因為是透由我們的警政署刑事局協助那是不是由刑事局來協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3686.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3716.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
我想跟委員所詢問的我們轄區的警察單位接到報案以後都第一時間的趕到現場去處理然後接受相關不管是公部門或是相關的業者的報案我們進行處理像我們一開始九個案件以後分析就馬上報到這個我們這個刑事局的專案小組來彙整那大概是多快研判到說是跟境外有關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3721.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3742.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
因為前面那九個案我們接獲了以後大概一個禮拜以後分析以後大概都是從境外進來的境外跳板進來的所以大概一個禮拜以內那現在就是因為我看到報告裡面也有提到之前有那個什麼一個張信的也是很愛做恐嚇嘛對不對然後一直到現在這一個案件那我們要怎麼去 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3743.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3745.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
警政署應對案件的SOP是怎樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3771.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3789.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
因為我們接到報案以後第一時間當然是分析這個郵件的來源那基本上他一定是這段期間有一些特定的議題他才會發出這些這個恐怖的郵件那我們發現以後當然就是說我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3790.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3811.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
我們當然平常就有注重這種追查科技偵查的這個技巧那案件發生以後當然是陸陸續續發生以後我們當然研判這個案件的由來那由來我們當然一直追查有透過剛剛國安局的報告還有我們手上的資料有14個國家他從 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3812.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3819.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
特定的地點然後透過14個國家的跳板再到我們這邊來這一次包括有14個機構公部門還有私部門的機構接到這些郵件 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3829.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3854.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
我為什麼這樣問就是因為假設我們能夠蒐集的案件越充足我們越能夠去比對說他到底是什麼時候開始什麼時候開始他已經有練兵的傾向因為我之前我有說過我很經常的收到這些釣魚案件這些釣魚有些可能是來自於境外有些可能是境內然後我後來去問一些我們譬如說我們在這邊的民意代表或者我們黨籍的地方的民意代表後來才發現大家都很常收到 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3855.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3869.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
但是恐嚇大家第一時間一定會反應但如果是釣魚信件大家不一定會去回報他可能就啊那釣魚就把它弄過去但其實呢我照理說應該要有一個比較完善的機制我們應該要 urge這些尤其是政府的公務人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3870.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3887.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
那而且是有些是民意代表他對這個事還比較不熟悉有些在公務體系的你可以去說你要記得要回報但是民意代表他不一定會做這樣的事情但如果說因為民意代表是一個非常重要他們能夠釣魚比如說在立法院他們要能夠取得機密事項啊什麼等等之類還想要去攻破你的電腦啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3888.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3915.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
如果有更大的這個數據的收集我們知道他們什麼時候對大量的人不管是委員還是地方的議員去送了這個釣魚信件那這個時候再去用一樣的方式像剛剛講的如果發現他的來源他是來自於哪些IP來自於哪些國家然後再跟後面的這個口號案件做比對的時候可能會發現更多的線索而且我們在預判的時候可能會更為精準那所以這邊我們以後之後也會建議就是有可能不一定要透過修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3915.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3929.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
那可能在行政機關他可能會去要求就是說大家能夠去多多回報這類的案件所以這樣才可以讓警政署在研判這些案件的時候有更多充足的證據那接下來這個主席不好意思我想問一下這個文化部 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3936.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3946.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
委員好你好現在對我來說是比較困擾的一件事情就是除了這一次這個國有器官的議題之外我們現在也有像馬龍有幾個相關的運動員他們現在也要來到台灣當然其實陸委會是說沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3956.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3984.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
但我現在比較擔心的就是我們看到這個文化部的立場當然是認為說兩岸交流我們不一定不能停嘛 對不對他們本來就是有各式各樣的交流但中國的交流畢竟還是帶有非常強大的一個政治目的我還記得在很多年以前我們對於藝人去那邊開演唱會去那邊交流我們都抱持著開放的態度嘛他們想要賺錢那也是他的事情但現在呢我們已經面臨到非常多的狀況第一個就是藝人本身的言論已經越來越偏激了 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3985.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4001.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
現在已經有藝人可以直接講出台獨死路一條這句話而且是越來越多人講這句話那這個對我們來講就已經是有可能會踩到紅線那更不要講說呢今天有些藝人他可能本身並沒有什麼問題但他可能在台灣去接觸別的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4001.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4018.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
像我們最近爆發的這個軍人說什麼揮五星旗這個案件他最早也是透過宗教的交流他先透過宗教的交流之後呢再由那個宗教的人去接觸一個現役的軍人然後再由現役的軍人說拍一個影片然後揮個五星旗然後做成短影片在中國播放 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4020.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4043.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
所以這種事情變得越來越多的狀況之下我們也知道照理說在這一個的安全上國家安全的維護上面國安局跟這個陸委會當然是非常重要的決策單位那我們一般但因為陸委會它畢竟它是有點類似幕僚單位它的執法或者說他們今天去查緝或者去規範的量能絕對沒有第一線其他的機關來得更快 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4043.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4062.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
那所以說就文化部的一個立場就是說在以後針對這些兩岸交流它有風險的狀況之下是不是可能每一個部門開始要自己的一些SOP跟委員說明其實這些不管是因為什麼理由只要是跟文化相關的理由譬如它是因為拍電影要來或者是因為要演唱會要來 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4063.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4077.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
其實文化部在這一關是協助內政部跟陸委會我們其實是共同有做一個審查的也就是說我們其實還是會基於他來台灣的目的而且也會在裡面要求他他來台灣的時候不能做他目的以外的事情也不能從事對台灣影響兩岸的平等原則這一類的發言所以如果說 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4082.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4101.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
他已經有這樣的發言紀錄他基本上就會列成他審查的條件的考量之一所以也並不是說他只要說要來都可以來基本上還是有一個審查的程序在那他如果說過去其實沒有什麼不良紀錄那他這次來了之後有不好的發言的時候那當然就依據台灣的法律再來做規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4102.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4120.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
對 但我們現在比較擔心的就是這個目的以外的行為很不好 像上次有這個記者的事件他做了目的以外的行為 但我們其實不知道這後來有人爆出來了 但他人也已經離境了所以就是說今天我們在查這件事情的量能的時候我們知道他不能做目的以外的行為但我們有時候無法得知他有沒有去做目的以外的行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4120.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4121.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
謝謝主席 有請國安局張副局長副局長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4151.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4176.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
委員長局長早在進入今天的主題之前我想要跟副局長檢討的是前天晚上的事情前天晚上我國的棒球選手從日本凱旋歸國那我們蕭美琴副總統有到機場去接機可是在拍大合照的時候彩蒙的董事長就率隊來亂入那這不但引起各界的這個撻伐我們國家婦援所的這個委員的問題我們也需要來檢討我想請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4181.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4195.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
以下我們這個國安局像過去我們依據我們的經驗一般政府元首到例領的這個場合國安局一般上事先都會去做場刊嘛那做場刊的時候我們會了解路線的規劃對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4196.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4222.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
那還有就是說甚至有誰這次可以來合照的這個名單我們都要事先知道嘛據我本席過去的經驗大概了解的流程大概是這樣子可是當天晚上我們看到都是一團亂那採蒙這個亂路的時候呢我們國安人員居然是沒有任何的作為也沒做任何的這個排除我想請問當天晚上到底發生了什麼事為什麼沒有排除呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4223.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4251.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
跟委員報告,確實剛就如同委員講的我們特警中心針對我們利林場所的一個勤務都會事先跟協同相關的單位做先體的場刊而且會跟活動的性質、它的動線還有它的環境去做評估、做維安的部署那當天詳細我想蕭副總統他的維安的一個情形我是不是請我們副指揮官來跟委員做個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4252.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4272.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
OK好簡單說明委員好我是特定中心副指揮官據我了解那我前天的這個事件我大概分成三個部分跟委員做個報告第一點就是我們接獲命令之後我了解的那天是程序的部分沒有問題我們都是按照先前現刊的這個程序針對我們節目的性質歷齡場所的這個狀況行進的動線 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4276.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4292.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
那一天我們到現場之後會同主辦單位、體育署、航警局、中華航空公司、淘機公司以及警官一大隊那總共有六個單位來一起做一個現刊那第二個部分針對現場的部分跟您做一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4293.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4320.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
因為到現場之後發現國人非常的熱情所以說接機的人員非常非常的眾多那我們在現場一般大概在機場裡面我們大概分成兩個區塊一個是入境管制區內一個入境管制區外那入境管制區外的維安我們評估完風險比較高因為非常非常多的民眾到現場去接機那管制區內相形簡單很多就是維安的狀況比較單純所以說 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4322.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4338.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
所以就出了這個疏漏你們自以為是自以為這個維安會比較單純結果呢就發生了這件事情在跟委員報告所以這應該是要做檢討啊是我們會去做檢討那評估完之後裡面比較相對單純所以我們在第五就是一般 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4338.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4339.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
好,OK |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4356.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4373.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
本席瞭解你們都有做這個作業這流程可能都有在跑可是到後來還是發生我看採摩他們是從後面竄進來這個這一幕我們在螢幕上面看到都是非常的這個傻眼所以針對這部分我想國安局這部分要檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4374.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4374.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
記錄國有器官 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4392.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4416.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
被這不明人士威脅要放置這個炸彈那剛才聽警政署的報告就是說因為這個恐嚇的電郵來郵件都是它的IP位置其實都是在全都在國外而且它是用這個VPN跳板程式來做寄送那也就是說我們到目前為止其實源頭是誰都還是不知道對不對不曉得只知道那是來自於境外勢力其實我們不曉得是誰對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4419.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4435.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
這部分的溯源因為涉及到很多跳板的跳躍所以說還需要透過可能國際合作的協查才能要花一點時間才能去確判所以目前的話真的還是不曉得主持者是誰可是大概想擔讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4437.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4443.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
因為這個騙子到底跟哪個國家有關係所以想當然我們就會覺得是誰那再來這種威嚇的這個手段我們會不會擔心說以後我們的廠商我們的企業他們可能會怕踩到紅線然後做自我審查會不會有這種狀況因為我看到去年底的時候有發生袁紅冰的這個星座沙佛 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4460.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4476.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
他的內容是涉及中共高層暗殺時事搬產的這個陰謀你看像我們的桃園機場、松山機場跟自由廣場的書店都把書全部都退回去了陳品呢也不敢把這個書來做上架像這種自我審查的方式會不會無形當中發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4478.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4497.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
根文報告這個部分有關於這個所謂自我審查一方面我們需要針對這些恐嚇的案件進行查處以這個案子明顯又看出這是有人犯嫌故意在做這種恐嚇的威脅事實上都在境外 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4498.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4519.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
不是在境內另外經過我們警察同仁的現地的巡查其實也沒有真正有這樣的事情發生我想這個部分我們會嚴謹來看待但是也請民眾放心我們會加強這方面的國內安全維安確保這種事情能夠有效的一個掌握讓民眾有一個安全穩定的環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4522.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4530.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
這看起來就是境外勢力的一些恐嚇跟侵擾希望能夠造成台灣內部的一些紛亂那再來的話我們要講的是中國無限擴張的這個長臂管轄政策那中國修訂了屬人主義的這個國安法還有設立海外的警察戰隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4539.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4541.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
臺灣所謂的臺獨頑固分子的這個名單其中還包含了我們的抓委王定宇委員還有本委的剛剛的沈伯源委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4554.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4581.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
上任的這個王毅川委員都已經列在名單當中那我們知道說在中國在全球有20幾個國家設立了超過100站的這個海外警察站遍及這個歐洲、美洲、亞洲跟非洲這些地方那我們會不會擔心說我們名單上面的所謂的台獨頑固分子如果入境到跟中國友好或是跟中國簽署引渡有引渡條例的這些國家會不會遭到中國行使長臂管轄權要求該國配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4588.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4607.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
跟委員報告雖然說中共大概跟60國左右簽署引渡條約但是多半的民主友盟民主國家事實上他們對於這種引渡是有前提的必須是司法犯罪像政治犯他們是不引渡的有在排除條款 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4608.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4623.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
當然有些是比較親中國家這個是比較有風險性的這我想我們相關單位也會提醒國人但一般這種民主有盟的國家事實上相對是安全的那我看到那個今年 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4624.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4645.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
7月發明有報導在法國戴高樂機場在3月的時候有兩位中共的駐外官員要將一位異議人士壓解回大陸但是被法國的邊境警察攔截下來甚至這兩位中共官員就被 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4646.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4647.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4663.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4688.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
有些國家我們還是不得不慎剛剛我跟委員報告像有些國家他們是重視自己的司法權是不容許中國在他境內去做這樣的事情但是有些親中國家事實上他配合度高的時候這些地方我們是需要注意的OK好以上謝謝羅美玲委員謝謝你關心本席的安全我剛從歐洲回來還好那另外國安局這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4689.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4714.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
有可能配合所謂的引渡涉及所謂的政治案件的高風險國家我會建議透過適當的方式要公告因為他不是政治人物一般人他現在涉及到一般人民一般人民到哪裡旅遊會有什麼樣的風險應該要有分級的一個公告否則出事情再來營救連歐美都很難營救何況是我們好 謝謝接下來進行詢答的委員黃仁委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4720.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4724.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
謝謝主席有請國安來,請副局長國安長好,早我們今天探討一下就是我們的長臂的這個管轄權我想在國際政治有一句名言強博必霸那長臂管轄 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4745.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4771.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
長臂管轄權的威脅不只是來自於中共我們就可以再追溯過去裡面美國管轄最初是由美國民事訴訟開始指地方法院將司法管轄權延伸到城外包含各州到國外有很多的各國都被告 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4772.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4791.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
所以這個就是我們今天要講的那不管是來自於中共或是來自於美國這些長臂的管轄權都深深的影響到我們很多我們國人的一些權益所以這樣的一個狀況我們就看嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4792.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4822.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
我們的所有的這個國有器官國有器官在國內放映之後引起了很多的一些恐嚇的事件根據這個裡面所調查的有總共有28件的案件都已經確定是中共透過的一個海外的IP對台灣發起的這個問題那如何判斷或區分恐嚇來自於中共政權或個人行為你回答一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4823.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4843.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
跟委員報告,詳細還是要靠證據就是這些IP的跳板跳到源頭這個部分的寫查另外一個我們根據客觀的事實因為根據這個影片直接相關是涉及到總統大陸的人權所以這幾個部分我們會綜合來研判當然還是要以證據為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4846.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4862.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
所以這個部分你目前都還沒有辦法確定確定這個國有器官是來自於哪一個國家裡面然後呢在國內被恐嚇的這樣事件是不知道是來自於目前我們還在釐清還在釐清嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4863.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4888.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
那另外就是長臂管轄權侵害的國家最具體主權象徵的司法權利所以有很大的正義但大國在使用權利時多國國家無法抵抗這因應國安局有何具體的建議所以我們激烈這個歐盟企業也曾經在美國的長臂管轄權苦不堪言 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4890.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4917.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
最有名的例子就是法國的阿爾斯通集團被美國政府以海外反腐敗法除以7.72億美元的罰款之後其電力業務則被美國的通用電氣收購所以因為他用這個來威脅到最後他們必須要妥協就後來變成是美國來收購那今天我們要講的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4919.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4936.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
你如何因應未來可能美國或是任何國家裡面比較強大的國家用這樣的一個長臂管轄權會威脅到我們國內你如何因應有關於其他國家或者是說針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4937.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4940.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
所以你看我們長臂管轄前的這個發生美國例如在 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4964.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4984.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
2016年的兆豐金紐約分行遭到紐約州金融服務署以違反美國銀行保密法和反洗憲法重罰1.8億美國甚至派員到台灣兆豐金總部調查侵犯我國的主權 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4985.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5003.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
這不應該是他們要來我們這個地方侵犯了我們的主權他應該說是由我們台灣台灣的司法或是調查我們趙鋒金總部有沒有侵犯到這個所謂的洗錢法 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5004.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5025.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
還有這個所謂的銀行保密法而不是國內結果是國外美國親自來到我們的兆豐的兆豐金的總部裡面來進行調查這個已經超越了我們我國的主權嘛對不對好那剛剛我所講的你如何因應未來那我們今天講齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5026.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5052.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
我們今天國安局今天報告中的因應方式都屬於抽象概念的方式所以國際上應該應對國際管轄權的具體的辦法由歐盟1996年通過阻斷法規用以提供歐盟企業管轄的具體的辦法由歐盟以1966年通過的阻斷法規 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5055.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5073.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
是用以歐盟企業及公民無息執行遵守美國特定法令或裁決的法律依據。局長,如果未來可能會用這個長臂的管轄權影響到我們國內的企業的時候,我們有沒有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5076.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5086.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
組成一個逐段法規像歐盟這樣的法規來未來來防止美國對我們的進行的這樣的一個侵略 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5087.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5114.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
跟委員報告因為這個是我們有相關的業管權責部門我相信他們也會關注這樣的現象去做適當的應處所以就我們國安局來講我們會關注像委員剛提醒的這些國際間之間的一個相關的一個措施我們會提供然後研判他的可能的影響提供我們政府權責部門來做制定的應處所以這個是一個案例 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5115.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5136.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
一個案例嘛所以剛剛前面我就已經提出我們來探討一下歐盟就已經有這樣的來1996年通過阻斷法規來提供歐盟企業及公民無需執行遵守美國特定法令或裁決的法律依據所以如果國內 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5137.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5160.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
未來可能會有這樣的類似的發生長臂管轄權那影響涉入剛剛我講的嘛美國都派員到我們國內來調查兆豐金總部進行調查有沒有洗錢法這已經超越了我們國的主權了嘛所以如果我們今天要有這樣的一個概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5161.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5181.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
你們有這樣的一個做法未來可能會進行來實施或是研討來建立一個阻斷法規防範以後對我們國內進行抽業了我們台灣的主權有沒有可能你們有沒有想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5183.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5202.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
對 您剛講那個美國商務部那個事情因為是涉及到那個相關單位之間這個細節我不是那麼清楚但是就您剛所提的這種可能的是不是有一些因應的應處作為如果全職單位他們如果有發起的話不應該是美國直接到我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5203.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5203.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我們一定會捍衛我們的主權 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5232.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5236.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
所以你們現在應該要重新思考這樣的一個歐盟的概念好不好是 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5260.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5261.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
國安局副局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5284.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5298.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
副局長我跟各位列席的官員我們在討論這個議題之前可能要把一些概念先釐清清楚第一個所謂用非法的手段長臂管轄去傷害我國主權侵害我們司法管轄權 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5299.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5327.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
通常指的是政治類的案件以及使用的是非法的手段跟一般的刑事犯罪洗錢、詐欺、金融犯罪的司法互助這兩個是不一樣的東西我覺得概念要先講清楚否則我們跟很多國家有在合作不管是國際防堵詐欺犯、人蛇集團那個都要跨國大家來合作那是司法機關基於互助 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5329.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5349.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
各自的司法主權去協助彼此阻卻刑事犯罪跟阻卻言論傷害民運人士或者政治類的案件然後透過非法的手段這兩個是不一樣的如果把它混為一談形塑好像大家都在幹這個事情的話我覺得這個會把焦點整個模糊掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5350.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5373.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
第一個我們來看中國在海外曾經兩度我判斷這個專案還在你有聽過這個Foxhunting獵狐專案有沒有聽過有聽過獵狐2014專項行動這是中共的國安部跟他們的公安局進行的根據獵狐後來才有所謂的海外公安海外警察等等的配屬的作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5374.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5399.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
那在中國公安部他有一個912專項工作小組他負責的是監控在海外的中國人監控在海外的重要的政治人物包含他國甚至於誘捕、威逼甚至還有一些自殺案件這個狀況不管是誘捕、監控或恐嚇請問一下國安局目前台灣有沒有類似的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5400.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5410.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
他也許不敢明目瞻仗用所謂的海外公安、海外警察或者在台灣執行什麼樣的專案你們目前有沒有看到類似的樣態在台灣發生過?報告委員,我們有關注他有試圖在我們國內發展組織但是還沒有看到有這種類似剛剛委員所提的這種現象恐嚇的情形有沒有?還沒有有啊,我待會舉例子給你看 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5429.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5438.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
只是它不是像海外是用公安人員你看今天美國發布一個新聞這是美國公民喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5439.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5464.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
這個美國公民直接接受中國國安部委託去監控在中國海外的異議人士、民運人士、法輪功成員等等那美國逮捕他之後以他沒有因為美國有代理人法沒有去登記通報自己成為外國政府的代理人最高可以判處15年徒刑他現在一審被判4年有期徒刑你們知道這個案子嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5466.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5494.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
所以他不僅僅會運用他自己的海外公安他有時候會運用在他國的公民來進行所謂的監控所以我再問一次在台灣有沒有類似獵狐專案專項行動然後對我們在台灣的民運人士香港異議人士在台灣我們應該保護的嫁來台灣的中國新娘嫁來台灣是我們國人喔被恐嚇、被監控、被誘捕有沒有類似的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5496.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5513.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
目前我們觀察到是會透過一些協力者在台做滋擾的行為在台灣是有滋擾行為嗎?然後我們在海外的我國的公民有沒有被獵狐專項行動或者相關的海外公安部進行監控過?你們有沒有掌握這個情形? |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5520.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5534.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
我們知道目前我們掌握是有這種現象尤其在他們會運用其實中共在外面的人員他有肩負這種監控跟治療的一個這個我問過僑委會 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5536.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5552.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
我們在國外的我國的僑民事實上有被他們海外公安或類似的手段監控或騷擾過甚至於上一次貴局的局長前任局長去泰國進關的時候那個影像被拿出來那個其實都是類似的樣態所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5555.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5574.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
我們今天談《國有器官》這部電影它不僅是一部電影這部電影的內容不是我要討論的重點一部電影要不要去看一個紀錄片你要不要去看那是人的選擇但是如果中國透過恐嚇的方式讓我們自我審查不敢播 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5578.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5595.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
不敢讓他上映這個時候他就達到實質的效果我們等於在鼓勵他繼續用這種恐嚇的方式這一次是一齣電影下一次呢一場選舉呢下一次一場民主活動呢如果他可以用恐嚇的方式讓我們正常的活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5597.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5620.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
沒辦法正常進行的時候這個時候我們相關的單位就有責任我們看像所謂的介入其實很多種像這個是一個判例嘛收受中國7400萬的資金然後介入台灣選舉這個是統促黨的幹部張孟崇那統促黨也被內政部申請解散了那另外呢寄送所謂的恐嚇 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5621.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5643.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
我看國安局寫的是28案那剛才警政署說是30案因為我們時間是到11月22號22號就多兩案出來到26號那這恐嚇除了電影院以外我看到有高雄市議會、彰化縣議會也被恐嚇那還有沒有其他公署剛才文化部也講文化部也被恐嚇了還有沒有其他的公家機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5645.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5672.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
我們的資料是有但那個委員會因為手邊沒有在手上我看一下還有其他公家機關嗎像彰化縣議彰化縣議會高雄市議會然後文化部剛剛提的還有就是行事局 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5673.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5694.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
連要查辦的刑事局他也是恐嚇對象桃園市還有台北市的影城這一些被恐嚇的對象我相信刑事局不會因為被恐嚇就停止偵辦但是一般的人民團體公司、行號、組織可能會因為被恐嚇他就 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5695.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5715.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
他為了保護自己也不為過但原來正常的活動就被限縮了我們看曾經發生過的像黃之鋒來台灣的時候從下機場的第一天就被監控監控人是大喇喇的兩人一組然後甚至於還要去毆打 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5716.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5733.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
另外你再看這個是香港的歌手何韻詩直接在凱道上面被潑紅漆執行的都是特定幫派特定政黨人士還有啊像聲援反送中的餐廳被潑會霧啊還有啊這個港人在西門町舉辦這個對中國國慶的不同意見的活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5744.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5772.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
中國用中國旅客後來查出來他的路徑的理由根本不符合去現場嗆聲啊這一種東西都屬於很多樣態我會要求國安局你要把這些樣態分類然後去對照一些在國際上發生的事項如果這些樣態有現有法律可以去執行賀祖你要去執行如果法律有不足的話你們要提出修法的建議所以我最後要請這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5774.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5798.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
文化部跟這個警政署一起上來透過非法手段侵害我國主權傷害我國的司法管轄權影響我們正常的活動甚至於民主活動去威脅去影響去嚇阻一般人民公司行號社團組織媒體的正常活動這是我們不容忍的我相信各位都點頭都說對嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5800.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5824.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
那現在像以國有器官這齣電影我再強調一次這個紀錄片大家對它評價如何要不要去看我沒有意見那是人的自由選擇有人要看有人不看自由選擇可當它上映卻因為恐嚇事件它的上映方式被扭曲改變了連高雄市議會彰化縣議會說要播也被恐嚇了 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5826.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5856.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
我們如果讓這種方式達成效果甚至於形成剛才羅美玲委員講的自我審查以前我們講說心中小警總現在變心中的小公安欸就不敢動的話我國就被實質的傷害影響所以國安局跟文化部跟警政署有沒有辦法確保至少要有一家這樣子的放映的院線願意正常進行而我們又能確保他的安全有沒有辦法這樣做 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5858.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5874.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
報委員我先跟委員報告等一下委員請文化部這個部分確實是我們國安團隊的責任這要確保我們國人的安全放心不要像這種恐嚇案件造成所以我們國安團隊會持續的掌收這樣的一個恐嚇的情訊也有警調機關會進行查處跟巡檢確保這樣的一個安全事實的揭露 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5886.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5913.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
你確保安全之後他還是不播啊 文化部我們能不能不被這種訊息去傷害哪怕播了沒有人要買票看 那是市場機制自動下線啊根文報目前正常上映的戲院還有6家 其他所謂的提早下檔其實是改為包場的方式 所以他其實都還是看得到他改為包場他比較能夠控制現場的安全 那但是6家都還是正常上映警政署我們可以確保這些播放院線的安全嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5914.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5935.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
當然沒有問題如果說有情資進來或是事先的預防我們都可以做票房不好下線OK啦好萊塢電影票房不好也該下線但不能因為被這種恐嚇而被提早下線這是不對的我們要保護正常活動的安全不被這種境外這樣的訊息傷害好不好請各位加油謝謝謝謝王定宇專委有請徐曉鑫委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5953.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5956.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
謝謝主席 我想先請國安局副局長國安好 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5963.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5990.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
你好那這個剛才也有委員提到了這個這個中華隊選手回台灣之後的階級維安問題那本席在這邊呢也有非常多的疑問想要跟這個維安的部分去做討論賴清德總統呢在11月24號也就是中華隊奪冠的那一天呢他下令什麼最高規格的階級維安局有收到這樣子的一個下令嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5992.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6020.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
國安局有抽到這樣一下嗎?就賴總統說的最高規格階級,你們知道這件事嗎?欸,你不回答是什麼意思啊?那個,這個部分我們特勤中心沒有收到這樣的訊息。所以你們也不看新聞的是嗎?你們就把它當成一般的階級。但我們很重視。你們很重視,但是你們沒有聽到我們的我國元首說這一次的階級要用最高規格。不知道,你們不知道這件事。 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6022.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6031.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
我看你那麼久都沒有回答我我已經心裡有數了你也不用再硬想你剛剛說你不知道嘛對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6035.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6037.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
我可以這麼說嗎?我這樣的陳述是事實吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6054.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6071.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
是,那個委員,因為這個部分是我們特定中心在負責,我是不是請我們副指揮官來回答問題當然可以,可是因為我要問的就是說,不是你是副局長啊,因為今天局長不在,不然我想問局長啊但是因為我先第一個問題是強調就是說賴總統他說的最高規格 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6074.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6098.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
那到底國安局我們在特勤上面有沒有接到指示是說這是要用最高規格我想總統說的最高規格是一個歡迎的規格但我們維安有維安的一個規格他是說階級要最高規格那當然跟維安有實際的連結跟關係啊那否則民眾當然自己會去那請問那最高規格是要怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6099.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6114.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
最高規格在國安局我就單講你們國安局的維安特勤好了什麼叫最高規格以你們國安跟特勤單位的最高規格來講的話你們可以做到什麼程度就是當天那樣的程度叫做最高規格嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6117.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6123.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
總統應該不是指維安的規格他說階級他說整個階級的規格都要最高那你們是不是屬於階級裡面其中一環那你們是不是也等同於你們要用最高規格來做維安跟特勤還是你覺得說要總統講最高規格那不然他講的是誰嘛那當然特勤人員是一個副總統都要去了那你維安你還不用高規格的去那不是很離譜跟荒謬嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6146.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6164.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
跟委員報告我們特請會看現地的情況現地的情況你現地的情況你就讓我看到了我們蕭美琴副總統後面衝出一群黃衣服的史稱黃金之亂這就是你們的最高規格嗎那委員我們是請可以請說 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6167.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6190.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
委員好,你剛羅委員也提過,那我前面三段我就不講,那我講兩個重點的部分,第一個當天到現場現看之後,我們協同六個單位去做整個動線的會刊跟歷齡場所的會刊那剛也解釋過,外面就是管制區外,它比較有安全顧慮,我們放在管制區內,這個都是經過安檢進到管制區內的,包含下機的人都是經過安檢進到管制區內的 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6193.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6212.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
第二部分就是我們一般合影的儀節分成兩個部分一個是計劃性一個是非計劃性那非計劃性就像總統到很多開放的場域很多熱情的民眾去要求那主辦單位跟辦公室的主任或者是秘書協調可能會因為很熱情的邀約 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6213.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6229.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
會同意他們進入所以是誰同意的?那個黃衣之亂是誰同意讓他們到前面去的?就你們了解的主辦單位是誰?那邊是體育署跟副總統辦公室因為體育署跟副總統辦公室認為在這個管制區裡面彩蒙的這些黃衣服的人他們是可以前來拍照的 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6240.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6243.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
委員 您如果您看到那個片子前面那段的話他們進去拉那個布條的時候我們的委員員是在旁邊做介護讓他安全的拉完布條之後同意他們進到裡面去跟他們合影但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6269.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6285.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
主辦單位跟副總統辦公室都同意讓這群黃衣服的人在旁邊一起拍照,是這樣嗎?同意他們進來拍照,但是我們可以從影片看到他們是從後面一直串到前面那在這個時候特勤人員為什麼沒有動作? |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6286.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6295.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
我們的人都是 那個都是管制區經過認證的人遇到管制區的對啊 管制區但是人家往前衝的時候那你們動作在哪裡這個我們會去解答我們從影片上面看到的是黃衣服的人甚至轉頭過來吼我們的維安人員叫你們退後欸那難道我們的維安人員就是特勤人員說一個大媽叫你退後你就退後了嗎那這樣的話不是不是很荒唐嗎我們從影片看到都是這樣欸你有看到那個影片嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6314.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6318.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
所以你看你們根本這件事情從25號到現在已經要幾號了現在已經時間過了不知道幾號現在已經這麼多天大家都在討論了你連當天的影片你們都沒有重新檢討重新看過你們連你們的特勤人員被黃衣大媽吼了你們都不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6335.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6341.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
這怎麼可以呢?那又肩負著我們中華隊的球員的安全還肩負著我們蔡英文﹖對不起喔﹖肖美琴副總統的安全那你們在旁邊你們只會在那邊看然後結果人家在那邊推擠在那邊撞那萬一跌倒了怎麼辦? |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6351.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6359.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
人家這個我們陳捷憲他本來小朋友的他找不到他的太太跟他的小孩子那這個這麼混亂的一個狀況我們的特勤人員就只在旁邊看沒有其他任何可以協助的地方我也是跟過馬前總統的 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6368.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6379.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
沒有看過這樣的維安情況啊都是事前當天會隔開人當有一些人他要就算他是要跟馬天宗握手或什麼這種情況的時候我國的元首的維安是他都會去幫忙擋的耶那今天那一群黃衣服的衝到前面衝到蕭美琴副總統旁邊衝到球員旁邊的時候你們為什麼沒有去幫忙擋 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6391.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6405.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
雖然是屬於非計劃性的但他的管道不對他沒有有秩序的排列他沒有按照依序走進來的這個情況他是從後面一窩蜂的人突然衝到前面去你們沒有要求他們先往後你們沒有說你們先往後一個一個來 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6407.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6413.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
特勤人員是這麼好講話的嗎我過去見過都不是這樣欸我見過的特勤人太多了從總統選舉、副總統選舉、馬前總統我從來沒有看過特勤人員這樣子欸用這麼鬆散的態度面對這件事情欸可以給我們的針對執行技巧的部分我們會再要求加強可能真的要很加強欸不然真的你就直接讓一群人就他們也是他們今天如果是壯漢說你們守不住就算了他們有一群就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6437.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6447.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
大媽啊你們特勤人員對他們毫無辦法我真的不解所以我覺得國安局在特勤人員這塊回去真的要鄭重檢討因為我們的國人看了之後都覺得非常傻眼怎麼會有大媽轉過頭來吼特勤人員然後特勤人員就哎呦後退了的情況你們這種情形怎麼讓大家能夠全民能夠相信你們可以保衛中華民國的總統副總統呢所以拜託拜託你回去把整個影片重看 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6467.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6470.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
從看過之後依序檢討我今天在這裡問有沒有被吼有沒有發生什麼事你們竟然回答不出來所有網友看影片都比你們看得還細代表你們沒有好好檢討今天來就知道應該會被問這個問題所以拜託一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6483.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6484.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
接下來進行詢答委員陳冠廷委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6516.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6519.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
國安局副局長國安局副局長副局長早我還是繼續我們上次的這個問題我們繼續問下去安全合格的部分那在安全合格的部分川普最近他的內閣 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6538.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6548.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
已經慢慢的準備已經有成型了那在內閣成型之前那FBI希望說對這些閣員做身家調查就你所知我國的閣員有沒有做相關的身家調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6550.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6570.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
我們機關保防會由我們全者機關調查局可以做安全的查核有一些1000多個職務是有做這樣的一個可以做這樣的查核有一千多個職務有做相關的身家調查就對一千多個由調查局去做這樣的處理那一樣嘛就是看他有沒有犯罪紀錄大概是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6571.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6591.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
其他之後包含他的這個因為我看到美國的身家調查是很複雜的他包含你的這個交往狀況你的醫療的背景因為你有沒有濫用藥物有沒有濫用酒精還有你接觸的國外人員還有你出入境的次數不是只有在中國 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6591.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6617.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
港澳地區而已那包含他們也會把一些撤出的敏感的地方都納入他們的範圍包含有些重要的可能是情資交換地他們都會做完全的影響除此之外針對他的財務狀況還有他的這個銀行的這些交往的狀況全部都會有那就我所知啦調查局做的大概主要是以犯罪紀錄為主那對於我們的這一個重要的首長的這一個規定來講的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6620.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6634.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
大概是以形式為主啦我還沒有看過哪一個部長或者是副首長的這個身家調查是有做到像美國一樣整密的這種做法所以我希望國安局能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6635.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6663.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
給我一個簡單的一個報告來去評估或者是說來去比較各個國家對於這些重要的政務任命的人員他們的身家調查我國跟其他國家的比較我會這樣子要求是因為我也跟我們的立法院的我們的這個法治局有討論過那他們對這個也非常有興趣因為第一個我們是不相容的就是說你國安局跟這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6664.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6664.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
昨天我們在接待 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6685.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6709.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
美國的國會團的時候也有談到這樣子的東西我認為這是一個非常重要的議題我覺得還必須要再講下去所以我今天是希望國安局能夠給我們一個報告來做一個比較第二點謝謝副局長那再來就是針對我們講完政府的官員之後我們來講一下Due Diligence承包商下包商的部分我們PPT我們來往下 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6710.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6736.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
這個第1會期就是一般民間在企業投資並公安長進的流程那我想過去我們還有一位國防外交的委員陳永康委員也非常重視這個東西他主要的目的就是看對方有沒有值得被投資他有沒有潛在的風險那還有他會針對他的這個過去的這些跟交往的細節就是說有沒有抵押執押債權的狀況那合約條約過去有沒有背信等等那除此之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6737.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6760.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
這是民間的部分那當然說還有輸送案的審閱這些全部都納入在考量的範圍可是如果說它是承包的是跟國防相關的跟國安單位相關的跟我們重大基礎建設相關的包含空港、海港、水、電、油等這些相關的話我們有沒有做完整的淨值調查來我們來下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6761.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6785.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
我們有沒有做完整的背景審查他承包的人員有沒有做完整的安全核可原則上我們至少說我知道的這些承包的廠商在重大的這些我們的基礎設施裡面其實是可以進出的範圍非常大所以我認為這個是必須由國安局來仔細來也是一樣也給我一個報告說現在的狀況是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6788.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6812.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
現在我不是只是講說國防部的營區喔我不是講說這一個國安局的營區而已喔因為我們現在要面臨的是全方位的這個是廣度跟深度跟以前不同的威脅明年桃園機場大停電這是多麼大的事情雖然說這是2022年的事情但是這一個就是一個重要的警鐘就是說我們這些承包廠上有沒有安全核可 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6813.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6840.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
有沒有,就算有,美國有喔美國有,但是承包商有一個很有名的一個承包的人員史諾頓他有絕密的這個安全的核可但是他把重要的機密還是帶到俄國了嘛他在,也不是只有Wikileaks啊然後他現在在俄國持有這個庇護等等就算有,都還沒有辦法來去避免這樣的狀況何況沒有,我們來下一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6842.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6870.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
國防部的包商僱用逃逸移工我們連包商的滴滴完之後他怎麼樣去聘用他的勞工他的勞工怎麼樣能夠進入營區也好或者是跟營區無關我記得上次國防部說沒有進入營區但是你就是承包嘛移民署還直衝營區逮6人所以這都是事實嘛這事實就是說我們根本沒有一個完整的機制從國會到行政機關到承包商到下包商都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6872.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6874.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
過去沒有沒關係現在把它補起來好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6875.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6904.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
跟委員報告就我們了解工程會事實上有做這方面的再做一些檢討那我們局裡來講針對這個委外的案件那對於承包的人員要經我們營區我們都有做安全查核對很好我這肯定但是我的意思就是說如果全部都有就不會有這樣的狀況嘛大概就只有我講白了大概是國安局啦或者是情報單位或許有 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6904.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6932.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
但是我剛剛講到的重大的海港、空港、水電、油等基礎建設包括鐵路、高鐵等等這些跟我們人民安全相關跟國家安全至關重要的東西必須要有一個相關的檢討所以我是希望國安局把你們建議報告也給我做為我們的立法依據我們也會跟法治局來討論一下好不好好 我們來準備報告就是這兩份就是我要因為除了法治局我們自己在討論之外我們自己的辦公室之外我們也想聽聽看國安局的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6934.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6934.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
好 我們下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6953.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6975.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
講到長臂管轄那這個國有器官的這件事情我們自己也有去看那我必須要談到長臂管轄的原因是因為他們沒有管轄權這個我們都知道但是中國確實是有能力來去影響各個國家的這個他們的僑民也好或者是當地的黑幫組織也好來去對我國的民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6976.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6995.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
會有一些安全上面的隱憂比如說黑道替中國發展組織比如說太陽聯盟比如說統促黨他們不需要說真的派一個什麼便衣公安然後偽裝成這個台灣的民眾來去給你威嚇直接跟在地的組織聯合就好了那就一樣可以做到重要的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6996.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7016.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
那在這邊你說用電郵電郵的方式電子郵件的方式來去做威嚇然後不讓我們去就像某種程度是要用很大的這種力量來去阻止台灣民眾來去接觸那其實他們跟中國發展的組織是有很強烈的關係比方說我們再看下一頁還有另外一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7017.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7035.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
臺灣的仿送中餐廳遭到波及這全部是跟在地組織在聯合的所以我是希望國安局、調查局把這些相關的情質做互相不管是在中國在各個駐外使館周遭的以他們駐外的使館為中心點 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7036.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7054.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
他們旁邊一定會有一些他們過去的這種派去中國的這種秘密警察派去國外的秘密警察都一定在附近嘛所以我是希望說這個第一個情資要全面的共享在外面的情資要分享由我們駐外的辦事處分享給當地的政府警政單位之外國內的單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7056.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7059.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
有異常的、違常的情勢發生我們就會請相關的單位依法偵辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7086.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7105.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
謝謝副市長這個報告召喚再給我最後30秒我把我們地方的一個違安的問題趕快講一下我們剛剛講到那個在免稅店的黃金賊之亂這個事情我跟你講我們地方也會有類似的狀況在很多總統副總統來到我們嘉義的行程的時候會有一些我不知道是他們是自稱是地方的網路媒體 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7106.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7134.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
地方的網絡媒體離總統副總統的距離都是這樣子兩三步然後全部的裝備都是仔細的在去錄影從總統副總統的面部特徵到所有特勤人員的面部特徵每一個都在錄同樣的偽裝成不要講偽裝好不好包裝成地方媒體的在所有的不管是憲兵退役的這種聯誼活動全部都到來去把每一個憲兵軍警的 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7135.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7157.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
面容特徵全部都錄影下來以一個地方的網路媒體來講我不覺得這有什麼我認為說我無法理解說為什麼要這樣子特別針對他的面部特徵針對特勤人員、針對軍、縣、警等等全部都有而且他們離總統、副總統的距離是非常近的所以我認為這個是我們必須要注意的 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7158.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7175.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
這次民主國家沒有有幾分的質詢我們就講幾分的話我把這個狀況提供給副局長我們會持續關注關於列入了解的情形好 謝謝陳冠廷委員 各位請回接下來進行訓導委員是林益君召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7187.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7196.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
謝謝主席 有請國安局副局長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7198.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7224.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
副局長好首先我想請教副局長一個比較明慈的定義的問題就是你們今天報告提到國家主權的長臂管轄權原本應該是指法院將管轄權延伸至轄區之外後來學術界在討論國家將自己的國內法延伸到其他國家的時候也擴大對長臂管轄的定義或者也叫做域外管轄北席這樣的定義應該是沒有問題吧是 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7227.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7231.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
那好 那我們過去在討論長臂管轄的時候一開始的經典的案例應該就是美國引用了他們的貿易法第301條對其他國家的企業啟動反壟斷的調查甚至實施了制裁後來中國也學到了一套的方法就是確用了到政治用途上面變成利用他們的國安法 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7249.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7253.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
搭配中國在全球超過50個緊喬事務的海外服務站逼迫海外的中國人必須要協助中共或者依照中國的反分裂法還有刑法還有等法條對他們自己的定義所謂的頑固台獨分子清單上的人追究終身責任譬如像是國防部長顧立雄部長還有我們的主席王定宇、趙偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7278.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7281.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
還有本會的委員、沈博洋這些這些人都是可能會被列在中國的這個清單上面那這幾位都是中國利用自己制定的國內法對台灣實施了長臂管轄的案例 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7293.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7314.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
你覺得這樣本席這樣理解應該是沒有問題吧?對,跟委員報告其實中共基於意識形態還有它政治意圖去用國內法來作為境外或長臂的管轄事實上兩岸是互不隸屬所以我們國人就我們憲法所保障的民主自由其實它是沒有這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7316.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7342.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
在我們國人來講其實我們並不會受到中共的長臂管轄在國內來講是沒有影響至於到國外的話因為有些美門國家或者有門國家事實上他們更重視他們自己司法自主所以不容許中共在引渡上他們也會排除政治意義人士的引渡那所以這些政治法定的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7344.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7348.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
未必會配合他的辦理但某些親中國家這個可能是例外 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7349.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7377.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
那請問一下剛才這樣講一講說副局長你認為剛才所說的中共的長臂管轄究竟是法律戰還是心理戰還是輿論戰這三戰裡面的哪一種樣態是一個複合的結果第一個有法律他立法了就國內的他自己國內的法去執行擴及到境外另外他透過這些宣揚去做認知作戰做心理的一個影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7378.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7398.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
目的就是要達成它的寒產效應達成它的政治目的這是一個複合式的一個做法那副局長根據你們今天報告中有指出近期國內影城播放了國有器官的紀錄片揭露了中共高官活摘人民器官然後已達到嚴肅的目的這種不法的行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7399.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7409.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
10月份的話那10月份的時候文化部還有高雄市議會還有台北市魔影城這些地方都陸續接獲疑似網軍寄送網路恐嚇電子郵件到11月22號為止這些大約這些共接受了接獲了28起的恐嚇案件那請問這種滋擾的樣態跟2022年美國裴洛西議長來台灣訪問的時候是不是有一些相似的地方呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7426.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7445.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
這一次比較是恐嚇的信件或者是等於是類似這樣恐嚇的訊息那裴若曦因為那時候桃園機場也是接收到好幾次的恐嚇的訊息有部分但是他又有更多的妄害攻擊包括他供獻了一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7447.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7450.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
這次比較像是純粹這種恐嚇信件還有恐嚇的訊息來做威懾 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7469.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7472.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
請教副局長中共今年6月也發布了成都22條意見所以算是狹義上的長臂管轄那對台灣民眾現在赴大陸工作還有旅遊造成很大的風險那國安局現在有沒有什麼因應的措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7486.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7509.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
這個部分也是我們政府機關也在提醒國人因為現在中共制定這些國安法也好反滲透法也好這些法令有些定義是模糊的由他的國安人員或公安人員他可以自由認定所以對我們賦入的國人事實上是有一些風險所以我們也不斷在做這樣的一個提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7510.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7526.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
那國安局你的意思就是說其實我們是很難中國很難對中國有什麼特別明顯的反制措施是嗎那能做的竟然就是只有提醒國人前往中國大陸的時候自己要非常小心那就是等於是自己的生命自己顧就對了是這個意思就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7528.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7547.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
這個部分是等於是中共現在的措施我們必須讓國人知道它對國人負辱的風險也要讓國人知道這是我們必須要提醒的那當然政府有相應的作為啦比如說我們的主權的捍衛這個我們各部門全者部門都在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7548.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7571.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
其實像法國跟加拿大其實在2024年就是也會就會有這種通過類似反制的長臂管轄的這些反外國的干預法令其實我認為這些國家的修法的案例其實是可以用為我們未來修法的重要的參考啦所以局長今天你回去之後是否請國安局找時間邀請其他相關部會一起跨部會討論一下及研議一下呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7572.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7581.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
謝謝委員的提醒這些相關的他國的措施我們也會去收整然後來做研析然後提供給相關單位來做評估參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7583.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7600.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
接下來我再請教副局長說中共最近幾年對台灣還有利用超軍事的手段威脅恐嚇越來越多元所以頻率也一直在增加中尤其是治安威脅還有駭客攻擊這些引因錯假訊息的方式還有用一些拒絕進口台灣農產品的產品這些手段作為國家安全應對的主要機關國安局的人力需求是不是也是應該相對的增加這些人力呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7612.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7637.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
謝謝委員能夠支持我們國安局的一個工作還有相關預算人力的支持我們局裡針對這個威脅形態的變化是內部也有做一些那個任務還有那個重點的一個提醒還有人員的培訓那目前我們相應各個業務處針對這些新生的威脅新興威脅目前都有掌握也都有應酬 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7639.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7664.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
因為我現在看到立法院的預算中心整理出近幾年的國安局的志願士兵的招募的情況我們看一下從106年開始國安局的招募的率幾乎是在一成到三成的邊緣徘徊其實這是真的是一個非常慘字來形容啦所以根據本席跟國安局所知送來的資料居然是113年的招募狀況是最近是最好的狀況那局長那你認為你不覺得這個表 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7668.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7692.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
有一些怪怪的嗎跟委員報告事實上之前招募情形受限很多因素包括當時疫情影響或其他種種因素但是我們後來在這是招募志願役士兵所以我們在對這招募士兵上有多做一些去介紹宣導所以我們在113年委員可以看到目前已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7694.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7707.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
獲招率已經是七成多了七成六那目前我們今年還有兩個第一次還沒辦完所以我想這個獲招率還會再往上提升我們會持續努力主席再給我一分鐘不好意思因為我現在看這個表112年以前招募是60個人對吧然後112年開始突然砍一半了變成30個人變成招募只有30個人那局長你把副局長你把這種招募的目標減成一半 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7723.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7750.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
就是說你們不管怎麼樣努力答不到乾脆就直接減半嘛這樣就可以躺平打標沒事了嗎如果每年都是需要60個人的員額那就應該招募60個人的目標千萬不要為了讓自己國安局的表面上面的招募率數字好看就把目標數減半因為你這樣國安局是不是就帶你提供錯假訊息給監督你們的立法委員啊所以我還是希望說國安局還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7751.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7779.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
真的缺多少人年度目標就一定是要定多少人這樣才能真正的解決人力不足的問題跟委員報告我們要招募的緣額都是經過精算按照任務去做核實的一個估算然後提出這個逐年要招募的一個緣額這個部分我們是會有會是這樣在作業因為我想現在的事情是真的是越來越多啦然後你們需要的人應該是越來越多啦但是我也是很希望國安局真的可以能夠招募到充足的人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7780.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7788.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
所以國安局還是加油,努力達到目標。謝謝。好,謝謝委員。謝謝林毅君委員。來,副局長請回。接下來進行詢問的委員是楊瓊英委員。好,謝謝主席。本席邀請國安局副局長。來,副局長請。委員好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7806.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7825.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
我們首先來討論,也就是這一次台灣英雄世界第一我們的中華隊在25日搭機返回台的時候,在機場整個畫面讓民眾覺得賴總統說是要以最高規格,連建山都出動 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7826.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7841.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
我們F16的伴飛是這麼英雄的事情這麼榮耀的事情那為什麼我們的副總統在現場甚至還有被推到後面請他去後面他要跟這些球員來這個照相為什麼會有這種亂象呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7845.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7863.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
請做說明跟委員報告剛我們副指揮官剛也在前面的委員質詢有做說明那我想這一次的這個機場的一個維安事實上我們有事先做過部署那當然在事先做過部署連我們的隊長是 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7865.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7882.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
都已經面露不悅這不應當出現的我們確實這個動線是我們還有檢討空間檢討的空間對我們會去檢討但就這次維安疫警安排來講是按照原先的規劃去做部署原先的規劃部署就是讓他亂 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7883.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7902.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
呃不是,因為在當場的這些人員事實上是管制區的人員但就是說他後來去拍照的時候的動線這個部分我們覺得我們有檢討空間是管制區的人員但是最後呈現出來是如此 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7903.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7927.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
我想這個討論空間絕對很大好好去討論對不對不管怎麼樣我們的元首副元首一定要讓他非常的安全而且是井南有序尤其是我們的台灣的英雄世界第一欸睽違了32年欸這是台灣之光啊世界第一所以造成這樣子美中不足但是我希望檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7928.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7929.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
我們大概三天 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7955.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7977.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
三天後也就是禮拜五希望能夠給國人看到我們國安的一個莊嚴也讓我們的台灣英雄世界第一是真正的榮耀接下來本期要請教中國強摘活人器官的紀錄片《國有器官》在今年10月份在台灣上映 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7978.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8005.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
那麼陸陸續不管是在放映的這個戲院還有政府部門都接受到了恐嚇的這個訊息而且統計顯現的有28件那麼南部也有在這樣的一個情況之下刑事局也針對於恐嚇電郵的來源的IP位置來研判是由VPN的虛擬私人的網路跳板程式在國外各地去寄送 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8006.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8024.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
那所幸我們國內目前沒有發生任何的事項那請問在這樣的情況之下國安局有掌控這個訊息嗎我們有掌控密切都跟我們警政署還有我們相關的單位做聯繫這個案情我們一直有掌控那這個位置發布的位置是正確的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8025.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8027.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
目前還在做比對研判有沒有掌握有方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8051.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8052.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
去測查清楚好不好讓國人安心一分鐘就好文化部 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8076.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8091.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
文化部因為文化部你身為隱私的主管機關那你事前有沒有察覺這樣子的政治威脅的問題?事前沒有,是介紹一下才好你誠懇的回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8091.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8119.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
本席給予讚許但是我們要謹慎也就是未來你要怎麼樣保障人民民眾的一個言論以及觀賞觀影的一個自由權我相信這一個議題這一個case可以讓我們作為警惕我們去精準方案是不是應當如此我們還是會保障這些電影院的播映權保障電影的上映權那你事前沒有掌控也沒有預知那事後要怎麼反犯呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8120.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8136.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
只要能夠保障上映的電影是安全的其實就不會影響上片目前為止它也還在正常上映中但是已經有恐嚇28件出來啊所以我們的國安局跟刑事組已經在真案當中了但是還是有上片而且還有包場 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8138.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8138.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
接下來進行詢答的委員是馬文君委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8167.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8173.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
謝謝主席,麻煩請副局長還有警政署副署長來,各位請 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8178.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8185.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
委員好副局長好今天大家關切我們看到國有器官這個影片的播放那可能接到恐嚇的這個部分這個當然在台灣我們是不希望而且不容許發生不管是活在器官或者是像恐嚇的這樣的行為因為除了像在因為在公共的 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8203.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8225.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
除了這些以外當然我們過去也曾經發生像捷運、高鐵或者很多其他的地點、場域其實都有發生過類似這樣的恐嚇事件那我們如果是恐嚇我們就好好的偵辦那當然這個部分它的IP的位置是來自很多不同的國家就我們目前掌握的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8226.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8228.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
這一點對我們來說我們在偵查的這個過程當中會不會有什麼樣的困難?是 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8252.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8281.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
公委員報告因為它跨很多國家所以如果是一些有名的國家我們會建立一些網安協查跟那個害心激政的一個查處的協議所以這會透過這些合作友方來協助然後另外一個就是我們也會根據其他的數位激政去做綜合的研判那如果是沒有這種合作的國家的確我們要去查那個IP會有它的困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8282.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8302.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
因為那個可能是查對象啦不過因為他已經有很明確的恐嚇的一個可能標的所以他放映的地點大家可能就要更謹慎就像如果說他有嫌犯說我要放在鐵路啊我要放在哪裡其實大家可能對這些區域可能就要更加謹慎的去防範不要發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8304.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8320.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
可是就這個我相信因為我們每年的預算不管在科技偵查的這個部分尤其副局長您本身也是科技出身對這一方面其實也是非常的熟悉在行所以我們希望說就這個部分我們在很多預算的編列的情況之下怎麼樣去因應或者去查查或者怎麼樣去預防這個部分由我們專業的來做那另外可能提到像這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8333.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8350.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
活摘器官的部分除了像我們影片現在在播映的內容以外其實我們更擔心的是現在進行式因為我們常常接到非常多的陳情很多家長都說他們的孩子都被騙被騙到或者甚至出國以後先被騙出國然後出國以後就被強壓到柬埔寨這樣子的一個高風險的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8360.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8369.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
我想來請教這個部分我們到底有沒有做到什麼樣的因應方式我們現在這個是現在進行式而且我們很多年輕人現在就面臨這樣的風險很多都必須要拿出贖金有的才可以回來那他們有很多也被活摘器官因為講得非常非常的驚悚 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8380.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8387.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
甚至在公海上面就可以馬上進行像這樣我們也應該要予以譴責在目前我們沒有看到其實這個才是我們應該要更關注的因為這是我們的國人而且都是我們的年輕人所以這個部分我想其實國安局應該要有一些因應的作為剛剛還有請警政署也一起上來主要就是這樣因為像我們現在在面對詐騙的時候有很多銀行的行員或者我們便利商店 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8409.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8410.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
他們要買點數的時候就是比較超出一些正常的一個情況或者要匯款的時候很多老先生老太太也要匯高額的款項出去的時候我們都會通報警察 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8424.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8433.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
或者會有因應的作為去勸說像這樣子反而我們現在都沒有看到比如說我們被騙到東南亞被騙到柬埔寨這樣的年輕人他們可以怎麼做我們再說有很多國家很多委員我們包括我們現在政府在關切說到哪一個國家或者到哪一些國家會有風險的時候那這些國家有沒有被列在裡面比如說我們看到很多一群一群的年輕人在我們出境的 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8453.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8453.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
副署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8475.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8486.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
有跟被騙到國外去打工或是說去發生被騙的情形那我們在行政院頒布的打詐事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8490.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8494.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
作為是什麼?很多人就在出盡大天啊,因為一般你一定買來回機票嘛,可是很多都是用單程的機票就出去了。所以像這些,就像我們在防詐騙一樣啊,你就會有很多的作為去幫忙勸說,不然這樣的集團他們的手段也非常多,我們的年輕人該怎麼辦? |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8509.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8525.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
我們平常是有分領分眾在宣導那前一陣子我們有在機場就是說對於這些年輕人出國我們有特別製作那個牌子希望他們這個慎重考慮或是說出國以後牌子擺在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8526.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8531.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
之前有先導那最近沒有所以這個才是現在進行式我們現在還是每天常常會接到很多家長的陳情有的哭得非常嚴重因為他們不知道自己的孩子在哪裡可是我們應該要加強的現在反而是這個部分因為這個牽涉到都是我們的國人我們的年輕人 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8545.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8551.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
他們現在有的還透過外交部啊說要贖金啊這確認說到底真的假的所以這個部分警政署可以在就近的時間之內可以給我們這個部分好不好因為有一些畢竟是發生在國外我們不知道應該要怎麼樣去防堵可是在國內發生的我們反而沒有要沒有積極的作為這是不對的那什麼多少時間可以給我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8572.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8578.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
我們兩個禮拜給委員報告好謝謝把一些相關的作為你可以在詐騙都一直一直這樣宣導然後在出鏡的時候你都可以做這些勸導那像這一種的我們更應該要提高警覺減少他的發聲因為我們沒有辦法百分之百總是可是你像有一些你攔下來有一些老先生就不會被騙了他的那個一生的積蓄有些就會被保留下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8597.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8607.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
我們希望每一條生命都很重要的透過我們的關注還有我們的預防其實這個可能比其他的還重要就是政治的議題其實有時候去廣泛的討論還不如我們務實的去珍惜我們周邊每一條年輕的生命那利用一點時間再請教我們國安局副局長我想請教一下事先知不知道那個肅勤會靠過來 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8628.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8642.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
你知道肅琴是誰嗎?現在不是很紅?我是肅琴啊?那個,這個彩蒙這個部分事實上是我們剛副指揮官有做過報告所以就是他已經在管制區內沒有關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8644.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8657.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
副局長我們今天要講的剛剛有很多委員關切那這個也有討論過了可是我們要說的是安全的問題今天他的作為你今天雖然在管制區裡面可是你看到我們這一張照片他拉的這個布條其實是很大一條欸以前清 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8663.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8668.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
那個金科刺秦王的時候他那個圖窮筆線他就是放在圖裡面啊你這個如果說是捲在那裡面你也不知道啊他是不是有什麼供給的一個利器你也不知道再加上管制區裡面雖然只有煙酒賣煙酒的一個商店 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8681.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8692.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
他可能沒有賣刀啊什麼的可是玻璃玻璃瓶我們的酒瓶其實也是一個攻擊器具哦所以你讓所有的這些這樣的人他都可以布條一拉出來把我們的隨乎啊或者特勤人員啊或者像我們的選手都被擺在後面這是很嚴重的問題今天我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8701.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8703.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
為什麼要特別提出來是你應該要因應雖然你事先其實已經有做過一些可能流程然後也認為這是管制區域可是當你面對有一些不一樣的跟我們預測的不一樣的時候顯然我們的做法是不夠靈活 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8719.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8729.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
而且甚至是有風險的這個部分藉由這個事件我們特別提出來所以我們在這裡可能也希望說像任何東西都有可能發生任何時間點對象都有可能發生這個部分不是說我們要去檢討而已而是你在面對任何可能發生的情況尤其是現在它包括空中的攻擊或者其他的攻擊隨時都在你不要說因為一慌亂或者一高興然後就沖昏了頭連我們應該訓練有素的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8747.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8766.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
都已經被捲在其中,我們這個特勤人員在幫忙拉布條,是不是?所以這個部分,你們去充分地做檢討,然後還有未來的因應的做法。好,謝謝馬文君先生。謝謝委員提醒,我們持續檢討次進。特勤中心剛才說你們三天內要有一個檢討報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8767.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8786.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
那這個報告要給本委員會包含狀況的分析那現場因應有沒有適當的地方以及相關的改進精進的地方你自己說一般我們是給你兩個禮拜你剛才承諾三天那就三天把它寫出來好不好好謝謝請回來接下來進行詢答的委員林柱英委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8795.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8805.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
謝謝主席 主席有請國安局張副局長、文化部王正次、內政部李副署長以及陸委會省副主委好 四位請 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8808.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8833.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
副局長同樣的我還是再一次提醒這個所謂不論是黃金之亂還是什麼肅清之亂本席是媒體出來然後又擔任了立法委員我們常常會有機會跟國家重要元首一起出現在同樣一個場合我必須說國安局多數的時候是做到滴水不漏我以前在當電視台主播的時候我們常常進去的時候是被檢查到在安全的隔離區之外我身為立法委員之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8834.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8842.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
我也常常還要進行搜身跟安檢但是這一次在所謂的行區裡面雖然說它是個管制區但是我們知道在同樣一個時間還有許多的班機有許多的乘客所以它都是不特定的對象這一次的狀況確實非常離譜我只能這樣講所以希望你們能夠有一個落實的檢討報告但是不要變成後來之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8858.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8869.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
一律又變成殺無赦的嚴控該管的沒管到,不該管的管一堆會造成民怨,好嗎?這是我的提醒好,謝謝委員提醒好,謝謝,我要請這個王實施政委王政委,政治政治是這樣我們都知道這一次我們的國家代表隊也就是我們的這個重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8886.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8898.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
這個棒球英雄他們拿到了這個世界比賽的冠軍那麼在這樣的過程當中很多人都說這如同是一個劇本這個劇本呢編劇來寫都寫的沒這麼精彩我想請問您這樣的一個精彩的劇本如果未來拍成 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8906.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8908.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
我想中國有他對台灣的審查原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8928.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8930.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
對,所以言下之意就是中國對於台灣這兩個字或者是對台灣主體性的相關的東西是避到不能記打壓到不能打壓 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8945.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8958.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
但是有關於中國其實他們不論是現在透過OTT平台又或者是透過抖音又或者是透過其他的網路的媒介即使我們現在常常講說中國的影片要進來台灣都要經過一定的審查或者是審核對一年只有10部 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8964.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8986.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
但是OTT平台當中其實你要看也管不到所以同樣的中國的這種長臂管轄於台灣像我們今天討論的這個國有器官即使他本身是進來在台灣演了但是因為他製造這種所謂灰色地帶的恐懼跟恐慌事實上對他們有利的 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8987.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9002.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
我們沒有辦法去做相關的法規的阻止但是像這種就是揭露中國真相的確實常常會透過其他的方式來侵擾台灣原本應該要有的言論保障對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9003.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9031.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
我想中國利用台灣民主自由的這個策點作為一個他們力量的延伸跟切入點大概由來已久那這也是對台灣整體來說一個需要去加強識讀跟加強辨識的一個很重要的核心那在電視或電影的放映上在電影上面是有清楚的管制包括一年只有10部包括它的主題有限制等等那但是對於在現在串流平台上面的或對於網際網路上面的這個部分的確也因為在 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9032.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9049.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
臺灣整體對言論自由保障之下而沒有辦法有其他管制的辦法那至於像這一次對國有器官現場的對安全的恐嚇跟威脅這部分我們大概就是跟警政署做最大的配合只要能夠保障現場的人的安全我們就是維持他繼續放映的權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9050.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9066.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
好特別會要讓這個王政次突然講這個部分就是因為我們其實看到的這就是中國的兩手策略我要請的是警政署其實中國的複合式威脅一手搭一手打一手拉比如說像現在他就透過這個恐嚇威脅的方式讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9071.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9079.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
這一步揭露中國活生生殘忍的過程能夠以紀錄片的方式呈現給國人知道那麼對中國來講這就是一個對他們不好他們不想要的狀況我只問那麼這些恐嚇跟威脅警政署在接受到一定的報案之後你們有能力來維護國家的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9094.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9112.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
讓這些不論是放映的電影院又或者是來觀賞電影的民眾不會有心生恐懼變成是內心害怕擔心小警總嗎以現在你們目前所接受到的這些報案到底有沒有辦法追到源頭到底有沒有辦法維護到民眾的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9113.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9116.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
只有一件來自大陸地區?其他的是有在地協力者協助嗎?還是說其實是其他國家的人無法追蹤到? |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9141.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9169.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
那因為從14個國家跳板進來那有一些國家他有一些沒有互助的協定所以我們只是知道說從這個國家跳板過來好來我要問的是我們國安局的張副局長齁其實因為本期已經是第10個了前面委員大概關注的都差不多其實我只想問這就是一個對中國來講國有器官就是一個灰色作戰不斷威脅台灣的一個成功的案例了成功的模式了 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9170.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9187.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
未來只要是像這種揭露中國不堪殘暴真相而不想讓台灣民眾看到或者是不想讓台灣的在地協力者可以有機會更囂張更猖狂他就會用這種方式喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9187.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9215.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
就是他在台灣有言論自由所以可以播放但是他用威嚇、恐嚇的方式讓真正想了解真相的人不敢進場再加上因為中國現在的長臂管轄他可以通過其他地方然後來進行引渡如果你在台灣看了你飛到其他國家他有引渡相關的條約的時候他甚至可以無限擴張這種恐嚇請問國安局有想到如何因應嗎?是 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9215.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9232.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
跟委員報告這分幾個部分第一個就是這種手段來恐嚇或者是用這種網路的恐嚇手段這我們用科技手段聯合我們國安團隊來進行查處查處確認了以後我們適度的揭露這種手法 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9233.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9251.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
第二就是這種恐嚇多半是虛張聲勢所以我們在國內我們的警察同仁我們的警政署也會加強這相關事件的一個查處同步揭露就是說讓民眾放心我們會盡量做到讓民眾在一個沒有這樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9253.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9277 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
中共打壓或者是恐嚇的一個情況下持續的來我們正常的一個運作至於在國外的話這個部分剛剛也跟幾位委員報告過事實上他做了長臂管轄要境外的話事實上涉及到他國的司法管轄權所以即便他有引渡條例大部分的民主國家都排除政治意義這個條款所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9279.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9306.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
根據這種意識形態制定的事實上很多國家是不會同意的而且他們也很多我們的友盟也主張台海核穩的重要性不希望拚命改變現狀所以這幾個部分就是我們大家同步來努力來確保國人的這方面的安全好最後本席只有這個最後跟主席借個30秒想問一下這個陸委會的省副主委我們知道這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9310.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9338.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
馬英九他找了一批這個包括馬龍啊、楊倩啊來到台灣那麼他說這是文化交流可是這些人全部都具有中國共產黨的黨員的背景那麼他們甚至於講說因為這個中共共產黨的黨員身份不足為奇那麼這是與民進黨身份人進去大陸一樣請問這一樣嗎?這算不算是另外一種另類的統戰那像這樣的統戰包括這樣的模式陸委會怎麼看? |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9339.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9368.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
是跟委員報告就我們確實有發現到說近期中國大陸來這邊交流的包含像體育啦教育宗教等等喔那麼他們的這個背景跟過往相較之下確實是有越來越特別的地方可能都是經過精心挑選所以針對這樣子的這個樣態那麼陸委會現在在審查的標準在現行法令規定沒有調整的情況下我們都還是採用一致性的標準來進行審查但是我們會比較特別在他們在到台灣來之後的一些行程的安排啦或者說也要求他們必須要能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9369.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9392.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
確保他們跟他們申請的這個內容活動來相符合本席很感謝主席今天安排這個題目其實可以看得出來中國對於台灣灰色作戰一手拉一手打另外滲透另外是製造心理的恐慌是全面性的那麼今天在台上的這些相關的部會首長恐怕也要把這樣的案例作為一個中國黑色滲透非常注意觀察的一個模式好嗎謝謝林主席委員各位請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9396.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9425.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
接下來發言的委員是羅志強委員、羅志強委員、羅志強委員不在吳思堯委員、吳思堯委員、吳思堯委員不在蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員不在徐欣穎委員、徐欣穎委員、徐欣穎委員不在鍾嘉斌委員、鍾嘉斌委員、鍾嘉斌委員不在鄭振淺委員、鄭振淺委員、鄭振淺委員不在葉元之委員、葉元之委員、葉元之委員不在洪孟凱委員、洪孟凱委員、洪孟凱委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9427.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9455.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
已登記質詢委員除不在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束本日會議有羅志強委員提出書面質詢請列入紀錄並刊登公報請相關機關以書面於兩週內答覆委員口頭質詢未及答覆部分或要求補充資料者亦請相關單位以書面於兩週內提供委員另約定期限者從其鎖定 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9455.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9472.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
那我們今天以國有器官跟長臂管轄這樣的題目這個題目也許在台灣社會並不是熱烈討論的題目但是這個樣態會嚴重的影響到我們民主台灣多元文化的正常活動請各相關單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9473.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9498.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
記著你們的使命你們要確保的是台灣正常的運作不被外部這種敵對勢力的威脅一旦被威脅影響到我們正常的民主活動休閒娛樂活動一切從其所欲的話那我們現在所擁有的一切將不復存在所以這題目我們以國有器官為例那它應該不會是最後一個我們希望下一次的時候我們會準備得更好那我們今天會議到此結束散會 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9509.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9510.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
本集完 |