| IVOD_ID |
163049 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163049 |
| 日期 |
2025-07-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
全院委員會-11-3-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
全院委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-07-10T15:13:07+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-07-10T15:33:18+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:20:11 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2bb0d0af414fb2091e3d5c0932394bd6cb5545a92025017d49a62968a3a8331deb97dbb4eb1fdcfb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳素月 |
| 委員發言時間 |
15:13:07 - 15:33:18 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-07-10T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議（事由：總統咨，為司法院大法官含院長、副院長，現有缺額7名，茲依據中華民國憲法增修條文第5條規定，提名蔡秋明、蘇素娥、蕭文生、鄭純惠、林麗瑩、陳慈陽、詹鎮榮7位為司法院大法官，並以蔡秋明為院長、蘇素娥為副院長，咨請同意案。） |
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請陳樹越委員詢問謝謝院長請院長邀請大法官被提名人鄭純惠女士麻煩再請被提名人鄭法官請說明 |
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政法官您知道現在社會最深惡痛絕的犯罪行為是什麼 |
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47.299 |
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應該就是這個詐騙事件吧詐騙 對 確實因為這個詐騙現在層出不窮然後受害的民眾非常的多那造成這個財產的損失甚至就是說這個生活上的一個壓力所以社會鄉親真的是深惡痛絕那也期待我們的政府可以拿出有效實際的作為來打詐 |
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72.174 |
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那可是我們最近就是說有看到這個有關大法庭針對就是詐騙的詐欺犯罪危害防治條例當中的有關被害自白並且繳交犯罪所得就可以獲得減刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
89.716 |
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119.103 |
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其中的犯罪所得到底是指個人獲得的報酬還是被害人全部的損失就是有關這個規定就是在今年的五月最高法院刑事大法庭有做出了裁定那這個裁定呢就是針對認為說這邊的犯罪所得指的是個人的報酬所以詐欺犯罪的被告只要自白並且繳回實際報酬就可以減刑那這個裁定做成之後啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
119.603 |
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148.775 |
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引起这个民众的议论认为说这样的裁定等于是就是将诈欺合法化了那为诈欺犯大开方便之门那甚至就我所知法务部也认为大法庭采取这样的见解已经背离立法的意旨那也就是会因此造成不当的减刑的结果本席想在这边请教政法官针对这样子大法庭的一个裁定您认为适当吗恰当吗 |
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151.487 |
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首先因為我是辦理民事審判所以對於刑事大法庭做出這樣裁定他實質考慮的因素跟最後的結果這個我是沒有辦法提出評論但是我認為大法庭最後做出來的這種 |
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168.885 |
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法律見解是可以受公平的那透過公平就是社會上去或者是學者他們去提出相關的意見那就有進一步討論的空間也可以再有修正機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
183.568 |
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因為社會的公平 社會的一個意見真的是認為這樣子的一個裁定是沒有辦法被接受的認為這樣子對於詐欺犯人是太輕了這部分法務部也要提出修法的一個提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
204.435 |
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那當然這個就是我本席就針對這部分我有提案就是希望就是說針對這個部分我們還是要認定為是這個被害人的一個損失這樣子的話才有辦法達到 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
220.269 |
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243.617 |
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遏止的壓力當然再回過頭來我再請教就是說因為對於打詐真的是社會的期待也因為大家都認為說在法令上或者是說最後的審判的結果都是太輕了就是說對於詐欺犯的判決都太輕了所以沒有辦法有效的遏止 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
244.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
247.178 |
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所以在日前豐原一家五口因為疑似詐騙案然後走上絕路這個案件發生之後可以說是引起社會各界非常大的震驚 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
259.845 |
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275.162 |
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所以本席在地方啊就接獲到很多鄉親真的是非常的就是非常的關心而且希望我們針對這個部分提出比較嚴厲的一個修法那甚至有鄉親主張說針對詐欺的主謀啊要 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
278.725 |
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302.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
要求處以死刑然後針對共犯也要處以重刑針對這個部分請教政法官就是說您認為要怎樣才能夠有效來遏止詐騙這個部分怎麼樣有效遏止我想這個也是多面向就是立法行政這些各方面至於立法要提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
303.354 |
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327.261 |
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刑度這些問題我想這是屬於立法裁量的問題但是可能也是要比較各個法條之間的相關性然後就是聽聽各界的意見這樣做一個比較就是我覺得這個是屬於立法裁量的問題這個我目前也沒有深入研究我也不敢做太就是太明確的說明這樣子是好 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
330.014 |
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358.744 |
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回到剛剛的問題啊就是說這個大法庭是司法院就是為了要解決這個裁判的歧義統一法律的一個見解所推動建立來取代以往這個判例的一個新制度那就我剛剛舉的這個例子因為針對這個就是剛剛說的這個詐欺犯罪危害防治條例當中的這個被告自白並且繳交犯罪所得這個定義的一個裁定引起社會的一個嘩然 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
360.074 |
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379.08 |
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所以到底就是說最高法院的大法庭所做出的統一法律見解的裁定到底能不能做到真正的一個解決問題彌平這個爭議或者是造成更麻煩的一個實務的一個困擾所以對於這個大法庭的一個成效我們是否要進行這個通盤的一個檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
381.861 |
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397.947 |
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關於大法庭 我就從民事大法庭的運作來講也就是說大法庭制度它其實是希望統一法律解釋這件事情就是回歸到司法權的本質透過法庭裁判的方式去處理它 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
400.028 |
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417.104 |
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實施之後其實我們講從程序面它確實有讓當事人參與也有請專家學者來參與讓整個程序變得更公開透明那至於說程序進行之後最後做出來的多數的實體見解 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
418.485 |
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443.102 |
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是不是大家都沒有意見那這個就很難說那因為本來實體的見解就是可受公平那出來如果說社會或學界都有意見那就有一個討論的空間可以促使法學的再進步那至於那個剛剛委員提到說是不是應該要做定期的成效評估像國民法官那樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
443.479 |
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465.155 |
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那這個因為是屬於司法行政的問題但是我覺得如果要做他要去做一些問卷調查的方法或對象可能跟國民法官是有一點點本質上的不同因為他畢竟是一個專業的法律間接所以這個部分大概應該要再做進一步的去考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
467.805 |
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486.951 |
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法律希望救社會秩序的手段,如果說救詐欺的行為沒有達到遏止的效果的話,我個人是覺得這部分是不是應該也要進行檢討? |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
488.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
511.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我想委員對於這個部分應該是有很深的期望因為這是社會基層的期望因為基層的老百姓他們都真的覺得說沒有辦法看到政府很有效的打仗所以他們會覺得就是沒有信心所以我們還是希望就是說法律到底就是要維持社會秩序的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
512.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
540.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
一個防線一個手段所以我們還是希望說就相關的法律也好或者是這個大法庭也好應該都要有實際的一個成效才好啦好那接下來本席在針對有關就是這個羈押權的部分來請教我們政務法官就是我們看到就是最近就是發生了有這個民眾在網路上散播就是檢察官法官的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
542.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
571.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
個資就是這個照片然後經過偵辦之後也把這個犯嫌找到了那也經過檢察官法官開庭審理後然後遭羈押禁建可是我們看到說這個遭羈禁建之後民眾黨的黃國昌宣稱說這樣子的一個行為是濫權羈押迫害人權所以修法刻不容緩那我想請教鄭法官您針對這一個案件您的看法如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
574.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
579.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
你覺得羈押就是說怎樣的羈押是合理性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
580.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
607.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這樣的羈押是合理性的我覺得這個部分因為是要個案判斷這個也涉及到檢察官的核心的裁量權所以我沒有辦法去做評斷但是我覺得就是說就司法是最後的防險所以要維持司法的依法審判獨立對於司法人員的安全確實有保障的必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
608.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
633.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
是那因為本席就是跟您就叫一下政法官因為本席就他的一個記者會的標題我就覺得非常的矛盾因為他說濫權羈押迫害人權修法刻不容緩修法他是重點在修法那我們檢察官羈押的話他應該就是依法依法來進行羈押那如果說他要修法就是表示說這個法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
634.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
663.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
是有不適宜不不恰當的地方嗎如果沒有的話那應該就就不是合理的一個羈押嗎是不是如果是依法羈押當然就是合法的那至於那他現在要來修法那要把他修法等於就是要把他放寬呢還是說要來因為我們都知道這司法法律就是最後一道防線嘛那他等一下把這個防線打開所以這樣子的話我覺得就等於是在干預司法了 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
664.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
690.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
因為具體的修正草案並沒有看到所以也沒有辦法知道修正的內容當然就沒有辦法做進一步的評析我們真的就是不樂見說政治人物就是說利用職權來干預司法我覺得這樣子是非常不可取的也不是民主的社會一個正常的現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
692.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
713.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那再来就是针对在就在最近嘛三个月六月二十七号那在野党夹着人数的优势三读通过法院组织法的修正案就是新增法庭的直播的一个规定那明定就是法律审裁原则公开例外不公开 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
714.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
742.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
事實審裁原則不公開例外公開那審理如果涉及重大公共利益或者社會矚目案件就得依當事人申請或依職權裁定來以適當方式實施公開播送那就這個部分不曉得政法官您的看法如何我想這個不管是就是法界團體提出這些無非都是要保護參與程序關係人他的基本人權就是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
743.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
765.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
法條已經通過了那法條通過的那個部分他就是說目前看起來就是他有做一些原則的限制那他為了就是要因應實際上那個每個個案不同的情節他也運用了很多不確定的法律概念比如說什麼適當方式播放啊或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
767.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
792.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
違反國家安全 供需兩署這些等等這些不確定的法律概念讓法官去做裁量那這個部分因為實施辦法是由司法院定的那我想那個司法行政單位應該會針對這些做一些比較妥適具體的那個規定以及保障就是說我們需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
793.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
822.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
裁判就是說如果立法目的是公開透明那除了這個之外我們更應該要兼顧所有參與程序的人他的權利的保障因為尤其是比如說像證人他其實他是為了遵守法律給他作證的義務來到法院那其實我們也應該要去保護他相關的權益那這些怎麼樣去兼顧我想司法行政單位他應該會去想辦法落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
823.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
843.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
事實上就是說有關這個法庭公開直播的議題也是討論很多年了是各界都沒有取得這個共識那這一次就是在野黨強推法庭的直播當然他們也夾著這個多數已經通過了不過在討論的過程當中法律界就是包括法官檢察官律師 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
844.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
859.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
學者也都齊聲的反對然後甚至有多達二三十個學界民間團體都發這個聲明來反對所以對於這樣子的一個倉促的一個推行法庭公開直播我覺得說對於未來可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
859.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
872.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
在這個法庭就是說在個案的一個就是在法庭有關案件的一個審理上就是對人權的保障或者是民意權人性的尊嚴等等我想這個都會造成很大的一個衝擊所以就 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
876.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
893.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那個正被提名人因為你未來會是憲法法庭的這個法官那就是有關就是憲法法庭保障這個人權就是基本的一個保障所以就這個部分你覺得要怎樣來做的話會比較恰當 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
895.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
916.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
就是如同我剛講的也就是說法官在裁因為他有的並不是絕對那所以如果在裁量什麼叫做適當方式或者是在篩選那個案件怎麼去解釋這些事情的時候其實可能法官本身他就會去考量平衡 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
918.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
933.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
訴訟關係人他的基本人權的保障然後用什麼樣的方式去讓他不會受到侵害那我想另外一個問題是當公開播送了之後這些資料怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
935.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
960.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
會不會被使用怎麼樣去限制它的使用我想這是另外一個更需要去注意的問題因為畢竟現在資訊時代所以這個公開播放之後如果這些資訊流出去的話我們應該要怎麼樣去就是保管它然後讓它的使用是有正當目的我想這個也是另外一個很重要的課題 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
962.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
983.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
謝謝那接下來本席想再針對有關的這個不在籍投票的這個問題來請教政法官因為這個議題當然也是討論很久了那目前我們也是沒有一個共識那因為在目前以台灣的一個狀況因為我們也面臨著就是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
984.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
998.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
對岸一個敵對的一個勢力對我們可以說是虎視眈眈而且是無所不用其極的一個滲透那想請教政法官就是說在這個階段您認為來開放不在籍投票您覺得適當嗎關於不在籍投票這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1003.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1031.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
如果照目前法律規定公民投票法它是有明文規定可以不在即投票但是要另外以法律定制所以這部分公民投票的不在即投票是需要立法去把它明定的那至於除了公民投票之外那因為公民投票它本身會比較沒有爭議是因為它是針對事情也就是說就是立法原則啊重大政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1031.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1052.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
所以針對事情的不在即投票相對爭議性會比較少但是針對人的投票爭議性相對就會比較高那因此就是除此之外為什麼全面不在即投票會引起這麼大的爭議大概也在這個地方那全面的不在即投票大概就是怎麼樣去考慮到 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1054.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1082.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
投票的秘密性公平性還有整個社會的信賴性我想這個是很重要那其實也是蠻困難的所以可能還要進一步的去形成共識是那就是說如果說沒有辦法進行全面的開放不在己投票如果是針對只針對開放特定族群比如說對原住民身心障礙者開放不在己投票通訊投票的話那您的看法又是如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1083.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1098.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
就是說如果是針對特定族群的話如果這些特定的族群他確實有這樣的一個不在籍投票的需求的時候那為了去保障憲法上保障的那個選舉權 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1099.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1115.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
那這個部分我想立法上確實有需要去優先考慮就是在全面投開放不在籍投票之前也許應該可以先去考量就針對特定族群他確實有沒有辦法到 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1117.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1145.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
實際的投票所去投票這樣的一個狀況而為了要保障他的投票權這個部分我想是可以就各個族群他的那個需求的特性去做一些考量那這個部分我覺得是可以優先考量的是好謝謝那最後剩一點時間那本席想再請教一下被提名人就是我們知道大法官這個憲法法庭非常的重要那大法官也扮演著維護自由民主 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1146.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1175.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
憲政秩序的關鍵的一個角色那未來若就任大法官之後在人權法制方面還有憲政體制的運作方面以及基本權利的保障方面您最關注關心的議題會是什麼請您簡單說一下所謂最關心議題因為如果是憲法法庭它基本上就是個司法司法就是要受理具體的案件了之後才會去處理它才會去處理它那所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1176.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1204.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
對於大法官來講現在的社會因為尤其是像我們現在已經邁入高齡化的社會社會衍生的一些變遷會影響到很多的層面那當它發生了一些需不需要進一步去做一些價值判斷的時候那這個等到有具體個案的時候我想這些都應該要去做考慮了 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1205.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1207.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
好 那謝謝法官 謝謝 |