| IVOD_ID |
163046 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163046 |
| 日期 |
2025-07-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
全院委員會-11-3-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
全院委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-07-10T11:38:53+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-07-10T11:59:24+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:20:31 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2bb0d0af414fb209ee9084cb6e8479bfcb5545a92025017d7d05aae55d3c4aa31b9ac0c7026c83ba5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃珊珊 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:38:53 - 11:59:24 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-07-10T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第3會期第4次全院委員會會議（事由：總統咨，為司法院大法官含院長、副院長，現有缺額7名，茲依據中華民國憲法增修條文第5條規定，提名蔡秋明、蘇素娥、蕭文生、鄭純惠、林麗瑩、陳慈陽、詹鎮榮7位為司法院大法官，並以蔡秋明為院長、蘇素娥為副院長，咨請同意案。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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麻煩請被提名人鄭法官請說明鄭法官好委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
15.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
35.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
我想這是您被提名之後第一次在立法院尋答我想因為在法界大家對您都算首席從刑事庭到民事庭到現在在大法庭我想過程裡面您剛所說的有一個很重要的事情就是強制執行撤銷了保險契約 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
37.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
50.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
讓債權人可以撤銷債務人的保險契約讓執行法院可以直接執行從112年12月9號這個裁定出來之後造成了全國大混亂您同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
53.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
74.665 |
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整個地方法院翻天覆地而且全國有幾十萬件相關的保單被撤銷弄到我很佩服你當時寫了不同意的意見書所以你的意見是說執行法院沒有法律的授權是不可以介入所謂的債務人跟第三者的契約對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
76.614 |
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88.041 |
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我的基本的態度是這樣,債權是平等的,所以欠債要還錢,可是你不能...你的債權沒有比我的債權更大嘛,是可是你的意見沒有變成大家的意見,所以最高法院做出了那個把 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
98.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
123.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
債權人的權利無限上綱到可以侵害到債務人或其他第三人的權益尤其是受益人跟被保險人這兩個人受到的影響不比要保人少而且甚至更多尤其是爸爸媽媽買保險的小孩突然間他的保障沒有了這才是問題所以我想問說您在寫完這個之後您有做過哪些努力嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
125.35 |
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147.214 |
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還是就沒辦法他們這樣裁定就算了你知道現在立法院已經修法了嗎對我知道但是因為我是一個法官只能在我審判的範圍內去表達我的意見那因為大法庭的多數見解出來之後我覺得您接下來要做的是大法官大法官就不是只有表示意見了 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
147.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
172.865 |
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大法官是要引領國家制度的進步大法官是要捍衛國家的公平跟正義如果這件事情如果假設他進到憲法法庭你會做什麼決定跟你原來的主張一樣嗎對我原來的主張我是會信使的如果可能的話你還會去說服其他的人來支持你的見解嗎我想這個我也努力過 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
173.746 |
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199.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
也會努力我覺得至少來說服立法委員接受你的見解我們也可以協助修法所以重點當法官當然法官不予但是如果要當大法官將來可能不只是自己寫完就算了尤其不同意見書寫出來之後我認為還要更積極的去說服其他的大法官甚至來說服立法院不然中華民國不可能同婚合法 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
200.339 |
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212.339 |
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你懂我的意思嗎所以你也要有這樣的野心跟魄力你寫了這麼多不同意見書但沒有成為主流意見我覺得當一個大法官可能要更積極一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
213.712 |
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242.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
好接下來是這是我在找您的資料裡面很努力的找到您的資料不多但是我看到這個資料今天要好好的來跟政法官請教這是25年前民國89年您在台北地方法院當民事庭長的時候當時的台北地檢署檢察長黃世民曾經因為台北地院沒有羈押一個台開案的被告講了一句 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
243.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
271.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
法官對有錢有勢的人就不敢羈押所以弄得台北地方法院將近30個法官站出來發了聲明而且是由鄭純惠庭長出面代表說明這個是你當年的新聞你還記得這件事嗎是這個標題非常非常的明確叫做不自白就生起羈押這是錯的今天中華民國 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
273.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
288.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
司法改革喊了幾十年我們也開過司改國是會議我們也修了相關的刑事訴訟法25年前的您的呼籲今天來看依然是個問題我先講一下您當時的主張 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
290.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
318.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
第一個社會跟司法制度的設計是要求法院扮演超然中立的裁判者角色在打擊犯罪的同時要兼顧人權的保障絕對不容許法院不問證據配合一方當事人檢察官的要求定被告的罪政法官這依然是你現在的主張嗎就是法官不可以因為不問證據就配合檢察官 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
319.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
348.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
需求定被告的罪你還講一句羈押是保全被告保全證據的最後手段羈押被告法律上有極嚴格的條件要避免依法依無罪推定的人受到重大的傷害檢察長這樣檢察長公開提出的申請羈押的被駁回然後就說法院不敢押有錢人的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
349.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
376.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
您的建議是請檢察官多提升科學辦案的技巧善盡舉證的責任減少對被告自白的過度依賴尤其不可以用不自白就申請羈押的取共手段政法官25年前的話今天拿來台灣現在的中華民國司法現狀依然適用您覺不覺得很可悲 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
378.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
399.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我覺得就是我目前是沒有在刑事審判的工作但你每天看到的新聞有沒有這樣的事情發生我覺得這個我的理念是沒有改變那具體的情況就要看這也是我們所有法律人在學校剛剛講那麼多老師從蔡德銘老師所有老師教的都是一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
401.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
424.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我也是台大法律系我們的老師一樣我們的法感應該是一樣的所以這是我們這個年代的人共同的價值我想這也是你繼續的價值這些話留到現在的中華民國依然適用我覺得非常的悲哀而且已經25年了25年來這個過程我們修了相關的刑事訴訟法 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
426.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
453.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
檢察官不可以用任何不正詢問的方式不可以用強暴脅迫利誘甚至詐欺最重要的是不可以疲勞詢問對吧疲勞詢問是什麼夜間不得詢問除非當事人同意可是幾乎當事人都會同意因為他想趕快回家所以我們的制度有規定但是現實沒有辦法履行25年前這樣的價值 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
456.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
480.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
如果相關的個案我們當然不談個案但是羈押是保全被告保全證據的最後手段這也是在保障人權跟發現真實您認為發現真實重要還是保障人權重要我想這個本來就是一個權衡要找到平衡點發現真實不該侵害人權 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
482.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
511.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
發現真實本來就應該用科學辦案去蒐集證據而不是押人取供現在的問題是您講的不自白就生壓是現在所有檢查體系做的事情包括很簡單最近為什麼大家看到司法這麼不受信任我們也都知道中華民國所有的民眾對法院的信任對司法的信任不滿一度超過七成相信的相信的 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
512.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
525.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
滿意的不到三成這個錯已經很久了但是一直改不過來為什麼你認為司法不受人民信任最重要的原因是什麼最大的因素是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
528.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
552.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我覺得有一部分是司法的本質就是他不一定會被大家人所接受因為但是剛剛就像前面的消消教授說的應該有一半的人贊成啊因為在法庭有一半的人是勝訴的另外一半的高興就算了連一半的贏的人他也不是不滿意啊為什麼他可能也認為在程序上面受到了不正義 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
555.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
576.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
參與訴訟的人應該不會到...都不會滿意,進衙門都不會滿意的好,我認為啦司法,因為我們從事法律這麼多年我覺得最大的問題是標準不一對剛剛黃世民講的沒有錯啊台灣人的腦袋裡面就是有錢判生沒錢判死啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
577.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
600.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
台灣人很多人覺得有關係就沒關係啊沒關係才會有關係啊甚至很多人是認為說司法黃牛這些人要走後門然後甚至有很多很多的人在看到了不同的新聞之後做了不同的標準才產生了對司法的不信任講個最簡單的例子最近發生台中的案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
602.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
627.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
過了幾天發現他們家好像被詐騙了才現在去開官驗屍如果你是法官你是檢察官你會不會覺得這是有點離譜而且那個可能是詐騙的共犯15萬元交保另外一個個案有人做了圖說要去對檢察官不利做了梗圖這些人收押進鑑 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
629.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
636.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
法官你認為我們的比例原則還有所謂的積壓條件是出了什麼問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
639.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
667.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
這個部分我就不做具體評論但是我想講我的我的理念就是審判工作在程序上一定要就是嚴守正當法律程序那至於這樣的結果最後做出來的實體裁判是可受公平可受公平但是沒有辦法得到人民的信任現在人民的感覺是檢察官的面子高過人民的性命檢察官的面子 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
668.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
681.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
去把檢察官照片貼一貼的人要收押進鑑另外只能五個人把它當成一般刺激案件不重要命案沒有關係這才是台灣人最大的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
683.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
699.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
標準不一是司法不信任的最大的原因所以我想再問你一下這個案子你今天我拿出來的這份東西我認為啦應該是你相關的司法審判實務裡面的資歷裡面最重要的一項很可惜沒有在你今天的報告跟你的簡歷裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
705.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
725.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
如果這個價值是你當大法官繼續堅持的價值我相信我們很多的委員會願意支持但是現在中華民國就碰到了很大的問題我們的檢查體系只有一個手段叫做不自白就羈押不自白就羈押是你反對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
725.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
742.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
你認為它是錯誤的可是我們現在每一天不管看哪個社會新聞都看得到這才是我們今天碰到最大的問題所以我想問一下您當大法官之後對於羈押的要件還有相關的這些程序規範您認為現在還有哪些可以改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
747.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
772.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
是說關於羈押的要件羈押程序的問題這個程序的問題因為現在是刑事訴訟我不具體講但是我要講的就是說再怎麼樣明確其實都可能有台兩地所以這個部分就是要看檢察官的良心還有法院的道德勇氣現在是法院有沒有道德勇氣像你們當年一樣可以把這個案子駁回 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
773.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
787.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
然後更簡單講你要好好去找證據不要只是把責任推給法院讓法院來幫你幫你做定罪的人這才是問題這邊旁邊最重要的是我還是要請您記得這句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
790.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
811.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
你說檢察官應該提升科學辦案的技巧善盡舉證的責任減少對被告自白的過度依賴尤其不可以用不自白就申請羈押為取共的手段所有的人被申請羈押他絕對是非常非常的驚恐所以才會有什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
813.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
839.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
該認的罪也認罪不該做的自白也自白造成非常非常多可能接下來的冤獄我希望這件事情您的價值繼續能夠堅持好第二個部分我想問一下身為女性還有剛剛講的受刑人現在有一個會在憲法法庭可能會受理的案子你認為受刑人是不是應該受到憲法人權的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
842.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
845.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
受刑人除了他自由被限制之外他還有沒有基本的人權 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
847.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
873.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
這個到法官會議解釋已經有非常清楚闡述過了就是說除了他被羈押同時連帶的那個之外其他的憲法上的權利我現在給政法官看兩封信這兩封信是受刑人他們作業在裡面要做一些工作這個作業裡面非常清楚這個受刑人寫的信是說他是現代版的奴隸制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
874.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
892.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
旁邊這封信說他們每天為私營企業拼命工作卻連維持日常生活所需都無能為力只能在裡面巴結老大奉承有錢有勢的人最後壽始人學到的是有錢真好有錢就好不在乎是非對錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
893.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
913.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
只想出去再繼續幹一票更大的接下去這個案子應該會在憲法法庭審議也就是他們每天都很認真的在工作但是他們一個月大概是五百六百塊的工作費法官你覺得六百塊一個月是合理還是不合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
915.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
932.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
對於這個事情就是說這件書信啊其實就是就法官的立場就是我一定要看到全部的資料所以我沒有問你別的我只問你一個月六百塊工作費你覺得合不合理六百塊一個月不是一天 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
935.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
952.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
監察院糾正過了正常在裡面大概要1000塊到3000塊的基本買一些日用品什麼的費用大概是3000塊然後我們做了那些手作啊蛋糕啊什麼的大概一個月是600塊這是一個工作權還是一個基本人權 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
954.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
977.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
這是一個說是工作權嗎這個工作權應該是他是有在工作只是他工作的內容他的這樣的報酬我只是要問說您對於他們有基本人權我覺得這個還是要捍衛好做基本的調查接下去是身為女性我想有兩個問題要問你第一個性別平權跟傳統優先 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
979.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1005.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
大法官會議解釋曾經針對台灣特有的叫做祭司工業做過相關的解釋那祭司工業我想也是民事體面常常碰到的案子那裡面很清楚以前都是傳統以來就是男性才是繼承人但是民法在我們立法的時候早就已經是一律平等包括婚姻包括繼承所以祭司工業等於是在民法之外的一個特殊狀況多年來 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1008.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1023.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
以前都是男性優先後來立法之後把有規約的還是繼續依規約沒有規約的用男性的部分大法官認為違憲所以廢掉了現在剩下的就是有規約的還是繼續有效 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1028.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1043.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
黃昭元大法官在裡面做一個解釋做一個非常非常生動的解釋他說憲法法庭只處理了條明文排除女性的真小人而沒有處理以尊重司法自治為名實質排除女性繼承權的偽君子 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1046.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1072.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
我們的憲法法庭之前做了這個違憲審查違的不足做了一半所以我想問一下政法官你認為就算有規約的我們是不是也應該慢慢的讓他回歸正軌讓慢慢的讓他回到性別平權就這部分就是隨著時代的進步性別平權來就應該越來越重視的時候這部分確實是需要檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1074.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1091.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
對 也就是說以前不會有同婚以前不會有這些男女平等的討論以前連女生都不能投票的現在這樣的狀況我們要改正如果這個案子可能的話我也希望您在憲法法庭要表達自己的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1092.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1119.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
同樣的勇敢的像你剛剛講的那些不同意意見書一樣第二個部分也是我們立法院一直在討論的有關代理孕母代理孕母是賴清德總統他在當院長當立委的時候的倡議而且他領銜提案憲法也規定民眾享有結婚自由跟自由組成家庭的自由權另外還有所謂的憲法第七條不應有差別待遇的平等權 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1120.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1149.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
但是現在的問題在於我們現在的衛福部說有爭議所以擺著所以我想政法官也很清楚我們的民法曾經因為憲法把你解釋說因為民法沒有提供同婚登記的制度所以違憲沒有提供這樣的機會所以違憲我現在要說的是我們的人工生殖法或相關的法律沒有提供代理孕母的制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1150.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1170.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
是不是可能違憲就這個問題我有在那個書面的部分有做答覆也就是說他是不是應該要允許至少沒有給我這個選擇就像這個賴清德說的連借卵借精都可以的為什麼沒有代理孕母連選擇的機會都沒有所以這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1173.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1197.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
案子這個制度如果我們的法律沒有提供給需要的民眾這樣的選擇權其實比照民法有關同婚的部分他也應該是違憲的請你書面回答我我想對你在書面回答我最後我想問一下有關大家你們進到假如你們回到憲法法庭可能會碰到的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1198.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1216.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
立法院不可以增加預算但是立法院的法律案你認為法律案是預算嗎這個部分我在書面裡面也有提到就是說這個雖然不是我的專長但是就我的初步的理解我覺得法律案當然從名稱上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1225.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1228.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
謝謝黃珊珊委員的詢問,也謝謝我們政法官的說明 |