| IVOD_ID |
16288 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16288 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-35-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
15 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-20T08:30:45+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-20T12:20:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:49:15 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2dbae2c6269a10f1bf5e5a7d9476abbdb3b104c5adbfed68f7392c15fa4ccbe5a25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長、國家發展委員會、經濟部報告「美國總統大選後，對於推動台美貿易及科技建立合作架構之影響」，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:45 - 12:20:00 |
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委員會主席 |
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戰爭是其他方式的維持政治戰爭是其他方式的維持政治戰爭是其他方式的維持政治 |
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1182.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1183.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1663.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1668.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1887.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1908.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2019.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2022.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
報告委員會初期委員10人以主法定人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2026.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2052.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
開始開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第2會期外交及國防委員會第14次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國113年11月18日星期一上午9時1分至12時31分地點紅樓森林一會議室出席委員盧美玲等10人、內席委員王洪威等15人請教委員王定宇、內席人員國家安全局局長蔡明彥及所屬人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2053.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2079.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
數位發展部政務次長林怡靜．法務部調查局副局長吳富梅．內政部警政署、行事警察局副局長林信雄．國家科學及技術委員會前瞻級應用科技處處長蔡妙慈．主席林州級委員易軍．報告實項一宣讀上次會議思路決定確定二．邀請國家安全局局長、數位發展部．法務部調查局、內政部警政署．國家科學及技術委員會報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2081.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2106.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
AI技術在資安、身為影片及錯假訊息之影響評估及因應．被質詢。國家安全局局長蔡明彥及數位發展部政務次長林怡進報告委員盧美林等15人質詢均由國家安全局局長蔡明彥、副局長張元斌、數位發展部政務次長林怡進、法務部調查局副局長吳富美、內政部警政署刑事警察局副局長林信雄、 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2107.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2134.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
及國家科學技術委員會前瞻及應用科技處處長蔡妙慈等即席答覆決定一登記質詢在場委員均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束二委員所提口頭及書面質詢未及答覆或要求提供資資訊請相關機關與二周內已書面答覆本會全體委員並附資本會委員令指定期限者從其所定三委員王定宇及林楚英等二人所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2139.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2160.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
請問在場委員．對於3次會議．議事錄．有無遺漏、錯誤或需要更正之處．議事錄確定．請議事人員宣讀報告事項報告事項．邀請外交部部長、國家發展委員會．經濟部報告．美國總統大選後．對於推動台美貿易及科技建立合作架構之影響．並備質詢。．宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2166.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2169.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我們介紹在場的委員陳永康委員沈伯陽委員介紹與會官員外交部政務次長田中光亞太司副司長許書智亞非司司長賀忠義 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2200.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2227.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
拉美斯副司長林祖恩歐洲司副司長林祖恩拉美斯副司長張智信北美司司長王良玉 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2231.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2253.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
條法司專門委員．黃仁良．國主司司長．孫簡元．國經司副司長．林美成．國產司司長．徐永梅．理兵處處長．陳欣欣．人事處副處長．吳迪文． |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2262.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2264.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
政風處處長 余世民主計處處長 李佩華資電處副處長 羅倩薇公眾會副執行長 蕭光偉台日協秘書長 范正國領務局局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2292.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2301.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
和政環國家發展會委員會副主任委員高先貴綜合規劃處副處長李佩玉經濟發展處副處長陳美菊產業發展處專門委員李家珍 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2322.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2330.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
經濟部政務次長陳正琦、國際貿易署副署長劉威廉、國營司專門委員黃旭輝、 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2341.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2345.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
本日會議邀請外交部、國家發展委員會及經濟部報告．美國總統大選後．對於推動台美貿易及科技建立合作架構的影響．並備質詢首先我們請外交部田政務次長上台報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2368.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2390.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
主席、各位委員、各位女士、各位先生、大家早安很榮幸獲邀前來就美國總統大選後．對於推動台美貿易及科技建立合作架構之影響．進行專題並報告並備質詢書面報告請參閱以下就重點說明,敬請主席及各位委員不吝指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2392.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2414.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
美國總統大選由共和黨候選人川普勝選。川普陣營在競選期間提出相關政見包括可能施加關稅以促進產業回流美國,加強科技出口管制來加速與中國的戰略脫鉤,傾向由雙邊途徑來達成政策目標等做法。 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2415.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2435.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我們將與相關政府部會持續密切關注政見落實的情形、審慎因應﹐並透過如台美經濟繁榮夥伴對話等既有機制﹐討論雙方關切的議題﹐以深化互惠互利的夥伴關係﹐為雙方人民帶來更大的經濟繁榮﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2437.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2463.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
台美經貿科技對話已經建制化了可深入討論的共同關切議題有以下幾點第一,過去8年以來美國政府經歷不同的政黨執政台美關係穩健增強美國對台灣持續展現跨黨派的支持第二,近年在全球供應鏈重整的浪潮下台灣企業對美國的投資貿易也蓬勃發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2464.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2488.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
是美國經濟及促進全球供應鏈韌性的關鍵夥伴我國將持續和美國現任政府穩健地推進雙方合作也期待與川普政府繼續深化臺美經貿夥伴的關係如透過臺美EPPD、臺美貿易倡議、臺美科學及技術合作協定及科技及 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2489.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2507.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
貿易投資合作架構等既有的機制．討論雙方關切的議題．並期盼盡速解決臺美雙重剋稅的問題．創造更多投資以及貿易的機會。第三點以川普首任政府創建的臺美EPPD為例． |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2508.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2519.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
雙方剛於10月24日舉行第五屆的會議,也在會前完成EPPD合作備忘錄的續約五年,有助延續臺美經濟對話的機制。臺美21世紀貿易倡議至今已經完成首批協定簽署。 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2526.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2544.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我們將持續配合行政院經貿談判辦公室與美國行政部門及國會密切合作相信並期盼能持續推進談判的進度。第五,臺美在川普政府任內簽署的科學及技術合作協定 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2545.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2569.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
並在2023年5月舉行臺美科技合作對話．加強臺美科技界的合作與理解。我們正在推動的經濟外交也符合川普首任政府在EPPD架構下與我簽署的基礎建設融資及市場建立合作架構以及乾淨網路等政策要項 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2570.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2578.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
下一個階段將與美國各方就榮邦及固邦工作嚴提具體合作項目與新政府推進相關議題之協作 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2580.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2608.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那麼美中科技競爭格局將延續台灣是美國供應鏈互惠互補的合作夥伴第一點考慮美中雙方在先進科技領域的戰略競爭越來越白熱化預期川普政府上任後將延續包括出口管制投資審查等各式反制措施以持續維持其領先的地位並防範中國取得各項新興關鍵科技第二點 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2609.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2633.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我國秉持政治民主、經濟自由開放．對國際社會負責任的原則．是美國打造重要戰略產業供應鏈上．關鍵而且值得信賴的合作夥伴．未來我們將與相關部會合作．全力推動賴總統強調的五大信賴產業．與美國及各州成熟的產業聚落．相互的 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2634.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2661.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
第三點,我們注重智慧財產創新及保護加上嚴謹的對外投資審查措施也凸顯我是美國及美國企業值得信賴的合作夥伴本部及我駐美國各處以持續對外強化以上的論述彰顯台灣對全球半導體產業的貢獻此外,我企業近年來也積極的赴美投資本部及經濟部也持續 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2663.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2681.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
積極響應美國商務部舉辦之選擇美國投資高峰會．協助為業者瞭解赴美投資的環境．2023年美國已成為台灣對外投資的首選．台灣企業對美直接投資有助創造當地就業的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2682.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2711.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
對美國製造業具有顯著的貢獻．彰顯臺美經濟互補、互惠及互利的夥伴關係。第二點,未來我們將配合我國相關部會與美國行政部門及國會密切合作解決臺美人民及企業關切的雙重課稅問題營造友善雙邊投資的付稅環境。第四大點,臺美在地方層級上積極共建經貿及科技合作網路 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2712.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2731.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我們與美國地方的層級互動、交流近年來更加蓬勃發展美國各州在台設立辦事處的數量已成長到今天的24個另外各州州長訪台的頻率也比以往的多包括維吉尼亞、亞利桑那、新墨西哥 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2732.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2752.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
紐澤西、德州、愛德華等州黨訪台時﹐更加和我方簽署了經貿或者全方位的夥伴備忘錄﹐以加強雙方經貿產業及投資等合作﹐並協助方邊企業在彼此市場布局、共拓商機﹐我們同時和相關部會合作﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2752.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2769.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
透過助美國各處在地方層級上積極促成產學研合作．除了促進雙邊人才培育的交流．也有助強化台美產學研的鏈結．共建緊密網絡．深化多層次的經貿夥伴關係． |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2771.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2793.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
另外,美國國務院、商務部以及農業部最近再度聯名致函全美國各州州長、大城市市長以及重要的企業領袖鼓勵各州強化與台灣的貿易、教育、投資及觀光交流,並鼓勵企業善用台美共享價值以及穩健的關係所提供的商機。 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2794.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2815.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
這是美國政府橫跨不同黨派執政,第三度致函明確表達支持強化台美各層級、各領域交往的立場,彰顯美國對深化台美夥伴關係的具體承諾及延續性,也凸顯與我國加強經貿等各項互動符合美國的利益。 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2819.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2838.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
貿易投資關係的熱絡共享互補互惠互利的夥伴關係我們將與我政府相關部會合作密切關注美國新政府經貿外交人事的布局政見的落實情形並持續透過上述各項機制深入討論關切的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2841.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2858.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
為雙方人民創造福祉也為促進印太區域及全球的和平穩定及繁榮發展做出貢獻以上報告謝謝主席及各位委員而敬請大院委員先進不定指教持續給本部大力的支持謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2869.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2873.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
接下來我們請國發會高副主任委員進行報告主席、各位委員先進,大家好今天很榮幸因要就貴委員會所提的議題進行報告本會緊就貴館的部分針對美國大選後全球臺灣經濟的影響評估及因應作為進行說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2899.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2916.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
美國前總統川普成功地重返白宮．他的競選政見以美國利益優先為核心．在內政上將提出減稅的法案．同時也將嚴格地控管移民．在對外經貿方面．他將推動高關稅． |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2917.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2917.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2935.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2954.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
美中貿易戰而且也會加速全球供應鏈的重組那預期其實也會增加全球貿易的不確定性根據國際貨幣基金的推估2025年全球經濟成長率將下降0.3個百分點2026跟2027年將分別下降0.5跟0.6個百分點 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2961.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2985.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
至於各國的影響程度的不一﹐預期中國大陸所受的衝擊會最大﹐其他部分的國家有可能可以受到轉戰的效益﹐可是基本上川普的新政策的落實﹐仍具有不確定性﹐它的影響能有待評估﹐所以行政部門其實會密切的注意﹐然後積極的因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2986.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3002.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
第一,我們會關注臺美的貿易談判,並爭取關稅的豁免。臺灣雖然不是美國的進口商品的主要來源國,但今年的前三季,臺美的貿易逆差是在各逆差國裡面排名第六。 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3003.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3006.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
所以我們會密切關切我們是否會列為優先貿易談判的重點國家那臺灣我們政府也會積極運用臺灣在半導體電子資訊產業的優勢我們爭取關稅豁免的談判空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3021.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3032.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
第二,我們會強化國內產業在全球供應業的韌性和價值。我想臺美其實長期保有良好的經貿合作關係。剛才外交部也報告,我們將透過既有的雙邊交流平臺推進臺美在五大信賴產業和人員等產業的合作,強化彼此供應業的韌性。為了因應國內企業在全球供應業的重新佈局,我想經濟部也會 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3050.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3065.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
會規劃藉由供應鏈大帶小的模式．結合臺灣半導體AI的優勢．在重點國家設立科技園區．並設立海外的單一窗口．第三,我們會因勢力導．協助企業爭取短端的商機． |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3066.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3077.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
政府除了繼續會引導我們的境外資金及台商回流投資以外,我們目前也正積極的結合外交產業跟經貿等複合的戰略,積極推動雙邊及多邊的合作來爭取台灣在國際經貿的空間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3085.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3090.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
臺灣除了受惠於美中貿易戰供應鏈移轉的效應在過去然後川普在前一個任期也通過了相當多的友台的法案包括鼓勵美國資深官員訪台 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3107.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3133.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
以及協助臺灣參與國際組織等所以政府部門將持續運用我們雙邊的對話機制跟交流管道深化臺美互利互惠的夥伴關係本會也會持續掌握川普總統上任後推動的政策以及對國內外經貿的形勢的影響那確保我們在全球的經濟的變局中穩定的成長以上的報告敬請指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3139.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3166.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
接著請經濟部陳政務次長進行報告主席、各位委員、各位女士、各位先生陳文貴委員會邀請就美國總統大選後．對於推動台美貿易及科技建立合作架構之影響進行報告進行各位委員不定視角 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3168.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3185.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
臺灣是美國長久以來互惠互利的重要夥伴,理念相近,經貿關係緊密,我國產業的商業模式建基於盟友的信任關係之上,我商是美商長期可信賴的夥伴,臺美在許多的關鍵領域都具有相當大的合作空間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3186.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3207.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
本部除了透過與美方的各項平台持續進行對話也深化跟美國地方政府的關係進一步推動協助我商到美國佈局持續強化台美關係川普總統在2017年第一次執政後推行了以美國為優先的核心貿易政策為全球經貿局勢創造了機會與挑戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3209.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3232.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
而這些政策也重塑了國際貿易的版圖．對全球供應鏈重組及關稅戰略布局帶來重大影響就我們的觀察．川普政府主張單邊主義．他重返執政．預料仍將優先考慮美國的利益．他的經貿政策對外主要是以科增關稅．包括對全球輸美的產品 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3232.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3244.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
科增10-20%的關稅．對中國出口到美國的產品科增60%的關稅．另外也要對源自墨西哥生產的汽車提高關稅．在美國對內則將推動減稅．讓企業的稅率從21%降到15%．然後也要增加對美國的境內投資．來扶植美國的製造業 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3255.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3277.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
在川普政府執政後．如果對中國全面加徵60%的關稅．並且取消中國永久正常貿易地位．美中競爭的態勢將加劇．部分台灣企業有可能因為轉燈效應受惠．促進我們的貿易增長．但是也對全球貿易帶來不確定性．並且為我們的經濟形成難以預測的連帶影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3280.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3296.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
此外,川普在競選期間也表示他要再度退出《巴黎協定》,廢除目前降低通膨法,並且擴大開採石油岸天然氣,增加對全球的化石燃料供應,有可能加劇全球碳排上升。 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3297.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3314.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
以上綜合來看川普新政府的政策是否能夠落實仍然具有高度的不確定性對全球和美國經濟影響有待密切觀察進行評估本部會持續密切關注美國經貿政策走向以及全球經貿局勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3316.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3340.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
臺美經貿關係在近年來越來越緊密從2018年美中貿易戰爆發全球供應鏈重組接著發生COVID-19的疫情以及俄烏戰爭等國際局勢的變化也加速了臺美間的連結2023年美國是我國的第二大貿易夥伴而我國是美國的第八大貿易夥伴在投資部分我國對美國的投資總共 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3341.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3346.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
90件,金額高達96.9億美元,不論件數或金額都排名第一。 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3348.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3373.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
近年,臺美雙方也持續建立不同的經貿平台,包括在川普總統任內與我方與美國國務院成立的臺美經濟繁榮夥伴對話 針對雙方共同關切的經貿政策議題進行交流而第五屆EPPD會議也在上個月舉行,臺美雙方並完成EPPD續約五年的簽署,作為繼續召開這個高階經貿對話的基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3376.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3401.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
在商務和投資的交流方面經濟部跟美國商務部成立了科技貿易及投資合作的架構雙方聚焦在半導體、電動車、能源及下世代通訊等關鍵領域透過私部門的積極參與進一步深化台美雙邊貿易、投資及產業的合作同時也強化彼此的供應鏈韌性例如上個月美國商務部的次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3402.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3429.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
Locasio就親自率領網路安全商業發展團訪台今年9月美國商務部也籌組了無人機及反無人機商業發展團來台與我業者進行交流臺美雙方的業者都積極探索雙方產業合作的潛在商機本部也透過TTIC的架構進一步強化跟美國各州的經貿連結到目前為止我們已經跟10個美國州政府簽署了經貿合作的備忘錄或協議 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3431.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3455.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
此外,臺美雙方也在2022年啟動臺美21世紀貿易倡議的談判工作,並且在2023年完成首批協定的簽署,是臺美雙邊關係的重要里程碑。經濟部除了希望跟美國川普新政府就各項經貿議題持續溝通協商外,也會配合行政院經貿談判辦公室持續推動相關工作。 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3457.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3474.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
美國商務部每年都有選擇美國投資高峰位這個期間本部都會籌組企業領袖訪美團赴美訪問。台灣是近年參加SelectUSA規模最大的代表團之一,獲得美方的高度重視,本部未來也會持續辦理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3475.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3495.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
川普新政府將於明年1月上任美國的經貿政策落實情形以及對我國的經濟影響仍然有待川普執政團隊上任後密切觀察來進行評估那麼經濟部將持續努力及時掌握美國經貿政策的最新發展及時研擬因應措施、滾動事前檢討透過各項經貿對話機制與美國溝通協商以上報告進行指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3508.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3524.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
現在開始詢答本會委員8加2分鐘非本會委員6分鐘10點半發言登記截止如有臨時提案請於10點半前提出11點左右是詢答情形進行處理現在請沈博洋委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3536.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3540.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
好,謝謝主席,那有請外交部次長,謝謝,請田次長請田次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3550.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3572.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
委員長市長好那這個因為這個算是在外交部預算之前所以呢算是僅有的幾次詢答機會但是因為今天剛好也有一個比較嚴重的這一個選罷法的這一個衝突在樓下所以呢這個希望我可能不會用太多的時間因為現在如果說人民的這一個罷免的權利都會剝奪的話我想說這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3575.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3595.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
我們的民主制度大概也很難維繫但是我們還是針對這樣的一個主題然後還有一集這個跟預算相關的來問一下那第一個就是說因為今天的題目是在講這個臺美貿易跟科技合作架構但是就我自己的理解就是有一些東西在談的時候大概外交部也沒有辦法講又或者說今天如果就算我們知道了 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3596.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3596.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
拜登提供66億美元的直接資金 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3615.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3635.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
補助這個台積電在亞利桑那那這個我覺得不是什麼很大的一個問題但問題在於說我們現在只要任何跟這個有關的消息其實假消息這邊特別多也就是說我們今天排定這個題目之前就已經有大量的不管是跟台積電相關的跟什麼相關的這種類似的假消息變得非常非常的多 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3636.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3659.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
那我認為外交部要特別的注意是因為我以前幾天國安局的一個例子前幾天這一個我們在跟國安局長討論的時候是在講說這個拜習會因為媒體就直接寫在頭版說這個拜習會就是有提到賴清德有說要提到反台獨等等之類的那當然這是一個官方文件的直接造假因為公開的資訊就是沒有嘛但是如果當時我們的講法就是說一定沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3662.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3684.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
那對方又可以咬著這一點就是說搞不好我們在私底下這個官媒就硬要講就中國的官媒硬要講說私底下一定有所以這個時候會陷入一個套套邏輯那時候局長有說過他們的重點其實會擺在比如說每一次有這種公開的場合中國只要跟別的國家談他自己都會出一個稿然後每次出一個稿都跟內容不一致 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3685.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3699.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
所以我們不用特別強調是這一次但是我們可以跟大家講說這個歷史上他每一次都不一致所以請大家不要輕信他的中國官方的說法那這樣就算他之後再流出什麼樣的說法對我們來講也不會有什麼太大的傷害 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3700.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3728.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
所以像這一次也是有這個新加坡的事情外交部其實也有做一些回應說可能有提可能沒有提但其實比較好的做法有可能就是直接告訴大家就是中國每次他只要講出來的東西每一次都跟我們實際的狀況不符合所以這一次請大家要謹慎以對那這樣的話就會讓新加坡不管他講了什麼東西出來至少我們也都立於不敗之地所以我覺得這一點可能要稍作一下提醒那後面這一件事情就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3730.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3756.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
這一個STARLINK就是STARLINK有沒有簽出台灣這件事情其實最早是有這個外媒在報導然後裡面就有提到幾家台灣的公司說提到就是說這個有可能要叫我們要撤出台灣那其實裡面他也有跟我們台灣的三家業者求證那這三家業者也講說沒有現在沒有這一回事所以照理說他是一個很平衡的一個外媒的報導看起來也沒有什麼太大的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3757.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3773.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
但我們就看到呢就大量的像這一類的我們現在把它附在這個PPT上面的這一類的假消息很多這個市長你可以看到就是第一什麼蘋果跑了第二什麼這個英偉達也撤了第三高通也動了有沒有就是他列了一堆那我們去看他這個源頭就是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3775.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3802.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
買購配他們有在網路上做這個闢謠然後就可以發現雖然路透社一開始發布但它一開始蠻正常的但後來這個聯合早報開始就把它變成有點誇張了就是內容上面已經有點偏離了然後接下來就是內容農場11月6號網易就把它越講越誇張講的好像是跟這一次選舉有關係但其實那一篇報導跟選舉根本是無關的事情它是在選舉之前的但這個網易就移花接木 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3802.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3816.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
移花接木後,微博的魯國平先生,反正就是一堆微博的帳號做大量的散播,然後散播完之後就回到剛剛講的我們的Facebook的上面,所以這其實就是一個典型的造謠的產業鏈,那這個造謠的產業鏈其實目前來說,以往 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3820.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3838.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
大部分來講可能針對我們的民生議題啊什麼的國防相關的但現在呢針對經濟的針對外交的已經越來越多了所以呢我知道外交部本來都有在盤點一開始在外交學院的時候我們其實在連學員上課的時候都會講這些東西嘛但現在就有可能我們需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3838.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3861.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
跟國人直接講說他們這個產業鏈長什麼樣子他原始的報導到底跟原來的差距有多少然後呢做幾個sample告訴大家之後呢以後只要一出現就可以告訴大家他們每一次這一類的文章都跟原始的訊息重疊只有10%而已有90%根本就是不實的資訊那現在可能會越來越多就是因為畢竟美國也剛選舉完日本也剛選舉完 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3863.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3883.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
現在這一個算是一個比較動盪不安的時代那再加上今年他們要修我們自己內部不管是財化法跟懸罷法這一類的爭議在這種動盪不安的時候呢其實假消息還有這種陰謀論是最容易做散播的所以希望外交部接下來可能要特別注意這一塊那我們在看預算的時候呢也會特別針對這一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3885.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3900.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
因為預算上面的譬如說不管是在原來的這個新進的人員的訓練或者外交人員的這一個像在外交學院那裡又或者是我們平常的這個應對方式他的目前的教育的訓練他所花的預算大概多少然後有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3900.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3924.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
特別針對這種,比如說,他的不管是國外的、中國的、台灣內部的造謠產業鏈長什麼樣子,因為同仁一定要熟悉,因為每一個同仁遇到的狀況可能不太一樣,有些可能就只跟他的業館業務相關,但他對於這個造謠產業鏈卻不熟悉,那他出去的時候,他第一句話就講錯了,那到座席都會變成破口,對方又可以拿這件事情來做操作,所以這邊就是想說特別跟這個次長提醒一下。 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3925.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3948.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
那這個我最後一個問題就好了因為我想說現在選報法對我來講是比較重要的事情就是說因為才化法現在要通過了那才化法之前我們在跟國防部討論的時候就說國防部最有可能當然最差狀況2900多億這個最好一點的狀況我看900億、1000億被拿掉都跑不掉這國防部會變得不好運作但我認為外交部也有可能首當其衝 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3949.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3976.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
因為他們如果把6千億要從中央拿到地方地方上的那種社福的他們不敢去動啦他要動一定動這些純中央的事物國防外交最適合所以除了國防之外呢他外交可能會大砍特砍就跟你講說啊現在請你重編因為畢竟我們現在6千億要拿下去了又或者說他今天實行往後一年那明年的下一次要編的時候呢跟今年編的就會變得完全不一樣所以不知道外交部現在針對這件事情有沒有什麼評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3977.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4000.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
就關於預算這件有可能會短少這件事情謝謝委員指教現在部裡面所推動的是總和外交那麼提出了幾大個計劃顧邦跟榮邦那這個計劃基本上都很需要財政的支援這是先說明那如果說這個財化法通過以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4001.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4019.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
我們當然對一些國際組織或者一些交流的活動勢必會受到影響會減少那麼邀請外賓來的次數跟人數也會受到影響那麼國際合作國際援助這個都需要經費去支持的 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4020.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4046.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
還有當我們住外館有的時候要去買館舍這個部分是我們長期的一個計畫因為我們對那些國家對我們友好的國家我們希望能夠買一個館舍代表我們跟他關係長久不必去付大量的租金所以以上提的這部分都會受到影響對所謂總和的外交也好故邦、榮邦的計畫都會產生很大的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4047.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4064.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
說真的我們的外交如果說像剛剛講的不管是交流啦等等之類的或者說設備的購買這些如果做不到的話中國會最開心啦我們現在就面臨中國那麼大量的一個打壓那但是我也要提醒就是說假設他們現在他們的腦筋是動到想要動外交的預算這非常有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4065.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4088.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
那如果說他就算把財化法往後施行一年是2026才發生這樣的事情那2025就一定會有鋪天蓋地的對這個外交部的攻擊啦他一定按照剛剛次長講的比如說他跟你講交流嘛他就一定要汙名化你的交流他就用一年的時間一直告訴你說這些交流都沒有用啦這些交流都亂花錢啦然後再來呢如果說外管的一些設備他就開始跟你講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4088.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4114.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
我們就發現那個誰誰誰內部人員爆料指出怎麼樣怎麼樣這個時候呢他都會名正言順的把外交部這些預算全部拿掉所以呢在接下來這一年為什麼我們剛剛前面要提到那麼多事情就是因為如果他真的要動到外交的預算鋪天蓋地的陰謀論會針對外交部而來而且從國內國外都一定會有所以一定要有一個比較良好的應對機制不然的話我們沒有辦法面對接下來的處境 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4115.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4123.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
因為時間的關係我可能要趕快下去我就先講到這邊謝謝主席 謝謝次長謝謝沈博洋委員田次長請回接下來我們請盧美琳委員上台質詢謝謝主席 有請經濟部陳正琦次長請次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4150.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4153.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
市長早安市長從川普目前所宣布的新政府的國安團隊我們看起來都是對中國的強硬派那雖然說美國的商務部跟貿易代表署的首長的人選到目前為止還沒有揭曉可是我們在川普在 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4171.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4177.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
進選期間,琉璃喊出將對中國進口加徵60%的關稅,要讓製造業、科技業回流,所以我們可以看到會有新一波的關稅戰跟科技戰,我們看到可能就會即將上演了。那剛剛部長您的這個報告裡面,或者是說,我也看到外交部也好,國安會也好,裡面都有提到, |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4195.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4196.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
美國總統大選後．對於推動台美貿易及科技建立合作架構之影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4212.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4217.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
那這跟川普政府1.0時期的美中貿易戰開始的時候有很多這個跨國企業為了避免這個高關稅然後陸續去將這個生產線從中國轉到其他地區的這個情況會再發生那也就是說也可能這是台灣會受賄的這個很重要的這個原因可是我在今年的4月有看到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4235.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4244.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
政期局提出,截至去年底為止,上市櫃公司合計1,209家負大陸投資,占全體上市櫃公司總加數1,714家的70.54%,這是一個非常高的比例。這些公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4257.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4265.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
大部分都是以電腦跟周邊的設備業還有電子的零組件的這個行業為主那本期想請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4266.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4287.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
這些產業鏈會不會依存在中國因為他們現在在中國嘛會受到這一波的影響非常的巨大因為如果說川普真的要實施這個課稅60%的進口稅的話我們這些在中國的企業會不會受到很大的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4288.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4314.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
報告委員我們的資通訊產業在中國大陸的投資大部分我們的盤點絕大部分都是因為國際供應鏈也就是美國品牌、歐洲品牌、日本品牌在中國投資之後我們必須配合他在中國大陸投資那麼未來的互動我們預期這些品牌其實已經發生了他們慢慢的要移轉他的生產基地比方說到印度、到東南亞 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4316.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4336.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
這些品牌商本身都有這樣的計畫所以我們的供應鏈業者也會跟品牌商合作來分散市場來降低風險所以我們目前也在協助我們這些在中國大陸投資的業者能夠分散市場然後配合品牌商到新南向國家來投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4337.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4353.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
這經濟部政策就是會是是是想我們現在目前有跟這些目前還在中國的一千多家的這個算是貴公司有做過後面有做密切的聯繫有如何去因應未來可能會面對的這個60%的關稅的這個問題嗎大家有有在討論這個部分嗎我們未來這些在中國大陸的企業未來他們的這個動向 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4365.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4388.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
我們這個經濟部有去關心嗎?未來如何去處置呢?如何去因應到這部分?是,報委員,在政策面我們所謂的境外觀內以大帶小就是協助這些業者能夠分散市場第二個我們在政策面跟美方強化對話瞭解整個供應鏈的情況讓美方能夠瞭解那大家雙方的政府來政策引導業者來降低風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4391.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4405.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
實際作為上,我們也透過產業工協會有告訴業者,除了分散市場,更重要請他們加強提升競爭力,產品差異化等等來降低自己的風險以及提高他的競爭力 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4406.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4423.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
這些位在中國大陸的這些企業目前的話他們當然自然應該所講的就是說我們會提醒那其實上如果真的是發生這種狀況的話你預期會看到怎麼樣的一個結果這些企業在中國他們面對怎麼樣的一個結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4427.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4448.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
因為畢竟已經在那邊深耕也許在那邊很多年了對這個企業的這個想要回流也好或是轉移到其他的國家其實都是還是要有一個時間一個佈局那可能川普上任之後他就要來實施這些政策那我們台灣政府對於這些在中國的這些企業我們有沒有給他們類似一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4449.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4451.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
在協助企業的具體行動方面的話,臺商回流我們這個投資台灣三大方案也會延長 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4470.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4471.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
再來還有不少人也擔心美國即將要開啟的進口關稅戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4495.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4495.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
美國總統大選委員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4525.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4530.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
本來我們也在想說那個時候會不會也造成這個通膨可是我們會再回去看這個川普在這個第一任的時候上一任的時候他的CPI其實並沒有攀升我們看這個圖是沒有攀升是沒有這個看不出有這個通膨的這個這個現象可是川普這一次揚言要課稅比如說中國他必須要課60%的稅然後一般的國家是10%那狀況跟之前有一點不太一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4552.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4555.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
我們同意國發會的評估會造成通膨的壓力這裡面跟第一任的跟現在會有點不一樣是關稅的幅度、國內減稅的幅度 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4577.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4603.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
還有美國貨幣釋放到市場上的情況都有不一樣原來只有10到25%的增加這一次如果真的60%那個差別很大再來最近的美國目前通貨膨脹慢慢要把它降下來了實際上它已經很多貨幣在市場上了那麼第三個呢它的減稅的效果上次已經減過了它希望再延長經濟減稅能夠再減的空間也可能沒有那麼大 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4604.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4624.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
所以就是為什麼很多經濟學家還有國發會的評估都認為會造成美國的通膨壓力當然如果美國造成通膨壓力的話對全世界當然會有一些衝擊這個部分我們目前還不知道他的政策落實的情形如何只能先來密切觀察如果政策有確實落實的話其實對全球都不會是一個好事對經濟來講會是一個很大的衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4628.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4642.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
OK那再來還有一點我想請教的就是說這個美國我們知道川普一直以來對於這個雙邊這個多邊的這個貿易協定其實他一直都是抱持著這個懷疑的這個態度他認為多邊貿易其實是對美國是不利的因此比較傾向於單邊貿易的這個協定的來做來做這個談判那我想請問一下這樣子是不是會 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4655.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4662.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
加速FTA的進展尤其是臺美21世紀貿易倡議已經有過兩階段的談判第一階段我之前有看過報導說有望年底就可以生效第二階段也達成了不少的共識所以會不會說臺美21世紀倡議拼圖已經快要完成了一半是不是會加速FTA的簽署會不會有這個進程目前有沒有進程 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4685.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4706.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
這是一個評估題,我們只是來先依測。川普在競選期間講了三大政策,第一個他是單邊主義,第二個要振興美國的製造業,第三個他對貿易是持懷疑看法。那麼這樣來講的話,我們必須非常有創意的來推動在美國振興製造業的政策目標之下, |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4707.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4714.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
跟他來做這個雙邊的對話能夠推動台美之間的貿易協議是有可能但是要有創意的做法而且我們要努力來推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4715.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4721.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
所以這個的話其實現在也很難說也很難講就像你們剛剛我在看到所有的報告裡面就是說未來的不確定性其實是還蠻高的所以其實確實就只能說只能預估可能預先我們無法去預估說他未來會怎麼走可是我覺得一切都還是要有準備因為我所看到的就是說他的傾向可能會跟我們未來的政策走向可能會有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4742.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4742.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
羅美琳委員 陳次長請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4772.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4772.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
黃仁委員外交部次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4795.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4821.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
黃委員您早好早有關於我們部長林佳龍出訪立陶宛在11月17號率冒險和國內無人機的業者出訪歐洲的聯訪7天請問一下林部長出訪歐洲和台力的關係可能甚便有沒有關係這是第一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4822.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4845.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
那另外就是這個部長出訪的歐洲如果和立陶宛沒有關係就不合理了待會再回答那本期之前有執行過並指出在建立立陶宛在建立在一個新新新冠疫情和厄烏的戰爭兩國兩個立即點在 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4849.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4850.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
請問一下兩點你來回答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4872.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4890.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
拜託跟委員先報告一下部長這一次率領台灣無人機的產業訪問團訪問立陶宛這個做法是具體要回應理念相近的夥伴建立可信賴的無人機產業鏈的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4892.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4901.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
我國的無人機產業,廠商也有機會去立陶宛等歐洲國家展現台灣無人機的研發跟製造實力,共同強化台灣無人機民主的供應鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4912.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4925.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
這個我覺得是林部長他的一個榮邦計畫的一部分另外一點是可能身邊的這個關係有沒有在這一次出訪的重要的一個拜訪 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4926.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4951.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
而立陶宛跟台灣我們是建立一個辦事處代表處那麼您談到的生變大概是哪一方面可不可以說明一下現在他要把台灣把台灣的我們在立陶宛設立的台灣要把台灣這兩個字要拔掉要未來可能要用什麼名稱 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4952.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4966.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
因為在從立陶宛駐代表處改名以台灣之名設立代表處是以外交的錯誤是立陶宛所講的喔那因為立陶宛在高科技園區開發中止媒體報導準總理不接見 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4971.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5000.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
林部長反團這麼多不利的一個事件堆疊在一起那外交部必須要思考可能便其應對國發會也考慮我國之前對立陶宛的投資有沒有必要做調整因為這一次出訪是不是已經遭受到立陶宛外交部要我們的林佳龍部長本來要拜會結果後來被拒絕有沒有這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5002.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5017.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
跟委員報告 我想這個題目我們從兩方面來談既然部長都要到立陶宛跟我們本來就是有友好的關係那勢必一定是跟高層裡面有見面啊但是你這邊要回答啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5019.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5044.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
我還是跟兩個方向提談第一個我們的無人機產業必須往外發展所以這一次林部長帶的20多位的無人機都是台灣非常著名的來增加我們跟歐洲除了歐洲以外立陶宛以外其他歐洲的國家也需要無人機這是第一點非常重要第二點台灣跟立陶宛建立的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5046.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5067.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
明稱是前政府雙邊已經談了很久談出來的一個結果現在立陶宛他政府有改組那麼如果要做任何的改變應該要經過兩方政府的再次這不是我們一廂請願喔我上次有質詢過我們林部長今天如果他們決定跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5068.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5083.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
跟對岸決定要做一個建交的話我們用什麼方法來調整讓他接受我們在立陶宛設立一個代表處他用台灣的名稱要拔掉台灣這兩個字 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5085.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5104.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
所以這個是有關於這個問題為什麼因為我們之前已經補助2億的美金在那個地方另外及我們有10億的美金在做一個貸款給這個立陶宛所以對我們國內我們外交部所貸款出去的錢如何做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5104.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5130.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
未來萬一代表說要更名的話那我們所投資的所貸款的有沒有影響,絕對有影響嘛那另外就是我特別要講的是新加坡總理在黃順才在11月15號以中共的領導人習近平以IPEC |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5132.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5144.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
場邊會晤的時候,中方已經稱新加坡新國反對台灣獨立,堅定恪守一個中國原則,但我們的外交部亦反駁,不過根據 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5146.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5175.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
我們新國外交部網站確實有新加坡有明確的一貫的一個中國政策反對台獨的文字你看什麼看法因為你們已經對外所反駁可是在新加坡的新國裡面的外交部網站有特別註明了新加坡明確的一貫的一個中國的政策反對台灣獨立的文字你怎麼說 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5176.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5176.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
請委員： |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5180.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5209.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
兩個字很重要的一個中國的原則跟一個中國的政策新加坡一直講的是一個中國的政策那麼中國把發新聞說新加坡講的是一個中國的原則這是偷糧換住移花接木的手法所以從這一點我們可以看得出來中國所發出來的訊息可能假訊息居多 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5210.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5233.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
這點我跟委員特別報告你不要再硬凹了好不好新加坡的他們自己的網站裡面就很明確的他只有一個中國而且反對台獨這是很明確但是你怎麼看待這樣的一個問題嘛你不要說文字上的一個遊戲跟解釋嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5235.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5253.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
One China Policy跟One China Principle這個有很大的不同新加坡一直堅持是One China Policy中國把這個話放在他嘴巴講One China Principle他已經直接打你們的外交部的臉了嘛我不認為啊好來那你不用解釋再來我請經濟部經濟部來針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5262.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5273.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
針對加徵的關稅10%,川普對於貿易逆差非常反感,認為這代表美國的錢被賺走,近年來對台灣貿易順差的擴增, |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5277.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5298.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
目前美國對我的順差超過五百億美元經濟部認為我們會不會因此被川普盯上那川普政府會不會因為對台灣的貿易逆差而對我們採取針對性的要求或制裁你來回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5299.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5301.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
你的報告裡面有沒有寫健康的逆差或是 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5316.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5341.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
剛剛沒有提到貿易順差逆差這一段不過委員垂詢了我就來回應一下那麼我們出口到美國都是幫助美國振興製造業的產品也就是對美國其實是有利的和創造他就業機會的產品台美的合作會形成一個非常互惠互利而且堅韌的供應鏈所以這個我們要跟美方來說明那麼這個我們的貿易順差其實對美國是好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5341.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5357.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
那這個是明顯的事實,這任何經濟數據攤開來都可以看得到的。好,我們現在我們在探討另外一個問題。川普針對在競選的時候,他已經對所有美國的進口品都加徵了10%的關稅。那關於這個問題,經濟部,我們郭部長之前有說 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5363.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5392.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
因為是對大家加徵百分之十的關稅所以對我們的影響不明顯他講的是這整個每一個國家都是徵稅百分之十是不是這樣這是川普在競選上所講的對全面性的世界各國所有產品加徵百分之十到二十的關稅根據他的競選上的說法我們來做一個評估如果大家都立足點平等以台灣企業的競爭力不見得對我們有重大衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5393.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5420.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
所以這個言辭裡面那我們好像都是被霸凌的所以我們一樣被霸凌沒有關係我們是這種鴕鳥心態所以我們也有因應的對策為什麼要因應隱和他的10%的關稅所以這個就是你們經濟部要考慮的一個整個的觀點不要讓我們國人說川普講的我們必須要隱和他們的10%的關稅你們有因應的對策才對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5423.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5441.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
那另外就是在美國加稅看起來很公平但我們之前郭部長卻覆列了這代表美國本土產業更具的優勢本席之前就有說過在川普眼中這個世界只分為一個美國和非美國 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5442.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5457.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
川普不會在乎台積電或三星的競爭誰輸誰贏他只會在乎如何讓所有外國企業輸給美國企業這樣的一個觀點裡面你有什麼樣的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5457.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5457.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
有關於我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5483.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5500.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
報告主席再給我一分鐘川普曾經公開表示對於晶片的法案非常反感川普認為美國政府花錢補助外國企業是非常愚蠢的行為他認為讓晶片留在美國生產只要加關稅就好了從美國外 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5503.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5528.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
從國外進口的晶片加高關稅晶片大廠自然就會選擇在美國生產晶片那從這樣的一個角色來講的話有沒有可能我們的台積電會把這一些重要的這些二奈米的這個製程會留在台灣還是用在美國這未來可能會被威脅到我們台灣如何因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5529.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5547.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
外委員兩題第一題是它的晶片法的補助款這個我們從新聞上看到商務部跟台積電已經簽署了那麼美國的法律程序這個是不是就完全確定我這邊不敢妄言不過看起來是一個確定的補助案第二點至於台積電2奈米的製造 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5549.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5558.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
臺積電也不是因為66億美元才到美國設廠可是在技術上是不是會把重要的技術會因為這樣子會轉移到美國設廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5561.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5580.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
任何我國企業對外投資都要經過經濟部跟跨部會的投審會的審查我們當時同意他去設美國第二廠的時候經過非常詳細的評估也就是2奈米的生產在台灣2025年就投產美國2028年投產而且研發中心在台灣先進技術會在台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5580.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5585.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
並且臺積電在臺灣的擴廠的速度遠高於它在世界擴廠的速度我們經過一個縝密的評估之後才給它許可所以你們要因應而且要縝密的來隨時注意到美國的動態對我們臺灣是非常很重要尤其是我們復古神山、臺積電我們如何在防範把技術轉移或者說要留住在臺灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5607.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5608.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
紅森漢 紅森漢 紅森漢委員不在接下來我們請許曉欣委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5658.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5658.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
請田次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5670.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5685.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
市長您應該知道最近呢在勞動部裡面那有發生這個同仁的霸凌事件就在那個新聞上有看到然後呢這個發生對同仁的霸凌事件之後呢那就導致一位勞動部的這個同仁輕生 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5686.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5703.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
所以現在大家對於霸凌的問題都非常的重視那我想要知道外交部對於霸凌事件的相關處理辦法那如果有人遭到這樣子不公平的對待的話他有什麼樣的申訴管道你們會做出什麼樣的相關的懲處或應對措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5706.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5734.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
謝謝委員的提問其實現在各個公務機關也好私人機關也好對於霸凌這個事情它是跟個人權有關係的特別關注外交部也不例外外交部很早以前就成立了一個人事審查的委員會那麼所有的案件報上來以後它應該有一定的條件第一個必須要有具名 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5735.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5757.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
第二個必須要證明,不可以隨便寫,那到底處理不完。據名有實體的證據,我們內部就有成立一個委員會做一個調查,當事人也好,加害人也好,我們經過詳細的調查,還要從旁邊找出一些證據,我們要給公平的處理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5758.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5786.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
可是實際上面在職場遭受霸凌的時候被害者其實他是不敢用他的真名出來向你檢舉的大多數的情況都是這樣不然的話勞動部的那一名員工他也不需要在他的這個辦公室裡面質疑了他有很多檢舉的管道跟平台問題是他被霸凌是他的上司霸凌他所以他如果跳過去了像我們所謂您剛講的委員會去做這樣子的一個說明或是檢舉的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5787.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5804.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
那你處理了以後這個可能他的長官不過是被調動職務而已他反而這個被害人他可能會到更慘的境地這是我們看到職場霸凌裡面最容易發生的事好次長你先不用急著回答因為就有人向我檢舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5805.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5826.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
但是呢對方也不敢具名因為我剛剛要跟您提的事情是具名這件事情對被害人或是吹哨人的壓力很大我國現在還沒有正式的通過吹哨者保護法所以很多知道內情的想幫忙的他們不敢附上自己的名字我們今天呢等一下我會把檢舉信拿給次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5828.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5851.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
我們今天是接到我國駐沙烏地阿拉伯王國代表處的高層張某某因為還沒有確認我們先根據各自法保護他的名字的檢舉信那發生了幾件事情這個是首先他被指控當眾羞辱員工製造內部恐懼也就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5852.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5875.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
資深的員工如果對他來講不聽話他會直接將他們解雇所以這個我想外交部是很容易去查詢的就是說有沒有資深員工被臨時解雇的事情發生我的意思是不見得受害人他要親自出來講我們有很多可以交叉比對的機制就知道這封檢舉信他到底是真是假 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5878.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5887.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
2.多次與同仁爆發激烈衝突,在公開場合辱罵員工,造成員工的心理壓力2. |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5887.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5897.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
也不需要當事人出來申訴小組,因為有沒有去辱罵員工,我們現在只要知道他針對的對象是沙烏地阿拉伯代表處 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5898.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5917.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
一個一個問就會知道有還是沒有了嘛總會有人你一個一個問的時候總會有人願意回答這個問題你就知道這個人到底是被誣賴的還是真有其事第三點更重要強迫贊助逼迫同仁為其買單為了補足代表處的 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5918.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5939.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
短缺經費﹚強迫同仁電款﹚並且使用經費來補助﹚破壞我們機構的紀律﹚也傷害了同仁的權益還有呢﹚沙烏地阿拉伯是禁止飲酒的﹚但是呢﹚他自己本身有喝酒的習慣﹚所以找了同仁陪他喝酒 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5940.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5968.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
這樣的話會對我國的整個外交形象造成非常嚴重的損害也可能引起當地政府與宗教界的不滿跟反感所以這件事情其實也很好查核多去問幾個同仁同仁你們有沒有曾經陪過這位張姓的高層有去飲酒只要有喝坦白說就已經違反人家沙烏地阿拉伯他們的教義就對我們的外表代表出來說是一件很嚴重的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5969.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5986.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
再來,帳目混亂非法濫用資金這個部分也要請外交部去詳查。資金有沒有被濫用,透過包含是會計相關的查核,一定能夠查得出來。這是要查不查的問題,也不需要被害者站出來。 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5988.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6003.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
反復強迫職員陪同採購．他被指控．對於採購事務．要求員工要陪他去外出購物．導致與同仁沒有辦法在自己的本職上面工作．造成很多的不便跟困擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6004.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6019.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
我剛談到的是﹐最驚訝的是﹐這個重要的高層﹐張信的高層解雇了兩名資深的員工﹐而且對於菲律賓籍的外籍員工進行了非法的遣返 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6020.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6027.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
在沒有經過合法程序之下扣押菲律賓籍的員工的護照這樣子的舉動不僅是違反了國際勞工的法規還對我們在國際間的形象造成嚴重的損害 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6035.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6037.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
我想我剛講的內容相當的具體喔不是說好像一兩句這個抹黑的詞句他很明確的列出了這個項目那我剛剛所列舉的幾個事項也能夠讓我們的次長針對整個部分呢做很明確的查核 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6052.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6075.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
即便受害者本人沒有站出來不敢站出來剛才我提出的資料我相信從外交部直接我們去做調查是能夠去確認以上的幾點有哪些是真的那有沒有碰到問題能否展開調查我們今天要問的是次長能不能夠去調查並且在兩週內提供報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6079.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6103.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
委員如果您信交給我我回去馬上就在這裡那個主席我就把這個簡舉信交給我們的次長好不好因為只有裡面我才有寫出當事人的名字因為各自法保護的問題所以剛才我們是孤影其名但是這封簡舉信裡面是確實有提到這個我們剛剛講的人他的職位以及他的真實姓名 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6103.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6118.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
所以是不是可以請我們外交部在兩週之內提供報告讓我們知道說這樣子的一個霸凌的事件是否存在於我國駐沙烏地阿拉伯的王國代表處 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6119.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6146.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
報告委員我們是絕對公正的去調查而且絕對不會互短他如果做錯了一定要接受相當的懲罰但是兩週內我現在沒有辦法把時間因為要找一些證人去談沒關係那您可以告訴我說大概需要多少時間這樣子好不好兩週內我們可以把一些事證先找到那麼調查的結果可能我講一個月嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6149.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6173.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
一個月好不好沒問題那我們就是兩週內做一些基本的事證先做初步的了解那這個調查報告我們就在一個月左右的時間來做回覆那謝謝次長因為現在我告訴次長說在每一個不是只有外交部在每一個部會裡面有一些性騷擾的不當管教的霸凌的事件是層出不窮 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6174.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6174.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
對,我不負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6190.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6211.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
你們護得了他一時 護不了他一世啊他又不會每天在你眼皮子底下出現所以我們真切的希望能夠對於這樣子的一個議題進行相關的調查而且是詳細的調查否則對我們的這一些在這個外國的使節跟其員工造成很巨大的這個壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6213.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6236.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
我們不希望勞動部的事件再一次重演如果發生那樣的事情的話我想我們在能夠阻止的時候就應該要盡量的阻止在有人提出檢舉的時候我不管他檢舉寫的有多少內容是真的是假的但是我們至少要盡到查核的義務所以今天為什麼我沒有把對方的名字跟他的工作寫出來就是為了確保 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6237.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6258.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
萬一裡面有一些不是事實的內容我們不要去誣賴到人家對但是呢該去調查的部分該去主動爭就不要講爭辦啦就是調查到底有沒有這件事的事情其實是外交部的責任當有人提出檢舉的時候外交部就有這樣子的責任針對每一個事件強加的調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6260.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6283.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
所以這個部分要再拜託外交部尤其是這只是一個案例如果還有其他收到檢舉性的情況我希望次長不要說今天對方沒有訓明我們就不查了我們先查那如果說對方當然是亂講的是誣賴的那這個事情就沒有但如果對方有詳細的列出一些細節只要他有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6284.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6310.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
是真的那我們外交部應該要主動介入調查避免勞動部他們的員工類似的事件發生在我們外交部請問次長可以做得到嗎謝謝謝謝委員為這些受害者發聲我覺得非常重要我們要匡正這些問題不能讓這些問題持續的發酵這個對國家的形象也好對所有老百姓受害者都不是很好的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6310.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6321.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
所以委員能夠提出來我也保證我們一定會盡我們的權力做詳細公正的調查好 謝謝次長 謝謝主席謝謝許巧行委員那請外交部一個月內提供報告給許委員田次長請回 謝謝接下來我們請林楚瑩委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6343.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6351.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
主席有請我們田政次還有我們經濟部今天是陳政次嗎委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6360.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6372.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
兩位早安我先請教一下田政次我們知道其實APEC這一次可以說還是因為中國的打壓跟施加奧步那麼希望在這中間當中能夠給台灣穿小鞋 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6375.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6399.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
那麼但是其實蠻可惜的是APEC它本身其實是一個就是讓亞洲地區的國家可以一起平起平坐來討論經貿發展的一個地方喔那我們當然知道其實台灣身為現在全球矚目的AI潛力國然後再加上我們的蛋白質晶片所以外交部其實是在密魯的代表處設置了這個台灣的電子看板那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6400.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6404.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
我們在媒體當中他特別寫到的是我看了中央社 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6406.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6430.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
時間是台灣的11月16號報導當地媒體自稱中方人是為了不讓中國國家主席習近平的車隊下車抵達立馬途中看到台灣的看板所以就擅自將電子廣告斷電40分鐘另外有17名中國公民意圖強行拆除建築物上方的廣告看板 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6430.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6449.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
中央社的這樣的一個報導是不是屬實?也就是說我們外交部秘魯代表處所設置的這樣的看板因為為了讓習近平不要看到台灣這一個字眼太礙眼所以就公然的被斷電了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6453.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6479.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
謝謝委員中國在各處都會想辦法給我們穿小鞋這一次的事件發生以後我們第一時間第一個時間就跟秘魯的政府先提出來然後跟廠商也提出來然後因為中國用很多澳布把那個想擋住讓習近平看不到這個我們都已經有想到過了所以我們透過幾種方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6483.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6500.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
政治方式呢米魯跟中國的關係是相當的好但是他也不能用這種方式來對待我們我們是APEC的正常21個會員體之一所以呢我們就提出了告訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6501.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6523.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
向廠商提出了告訴,當然中方在後面做了很多小動作,把店剪斷了,派人來照相,派人來擋這個東西,但是這個案子現在還沒有完,我們一定要跟他打到底,這個全世界也都在看,這些經濟體也看,其實他們這樣做,其實對他的國家並沒有好處 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6524.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6539.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
本席會特別提這個事情出來問的原因是因為本席是肯定代表處用這樣的方式讓台灣被世界看到只是這到底一共有幾面?六面還是七面?媒體講那被破壞的只有一面是不是這樣嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6542.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6559.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
他是這樣子喔,他有一個是香燈的廣告,然後還有T-Bar,T-Bar大概有7個,那麼大型的是一個,大型的一面所以大型的一面就是被斷電的這一面,不是? |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6560.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6578.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
其中的一面,好,這個過程當中,因為現在只有媒體的報導,所以真相是什麼,其實是很模糊的。我們必須要了解的是說,當代表處做了這樣一個讓台灣被世界看見的這樣一個做法跟作為,其實本席是肯定的,但是這過程當中,就如同政事所說的,被中國惡意、施壓、破壞 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6583.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6588.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
除了跟廠商提出告訴之外密魯政府我們也必須發出強烈抗議的聲明因為這明明就是一個商業的行為但是密魯政府如果沒有處理的話那麼就會變成是他公然在 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6599.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6626.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
中國的施壓底下來刻意矮化台灣而且讓這樣的一個商業行為受到阻止這對於APEC這樣的一個場域就是要讓整個亞洲地區的國家一起可以平等的來談經貿問題的時候這就是一個最壞的示範所以本席希望這件事情外交部必須要有態度而且要把它處理完之後把整個事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6627.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6629.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
給國防外交委員會．本席一個報告可以嗎?是 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6631.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6660.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
另外我想在這過程當中除了明目張膽的把台灣的T-Bar或者是電子看板斷電之外中國官方更是造謠前面沈博洋委員有特別提到我也關注這個問題那就是造謠的內容的媒體的我就不念了但是呢我們來看一下就是中國其實就造謠說這個拜習會當中習近平有講了賴清德三個字 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6661.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6685.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
那很多因為本席是媒體出來的很多時候如果現在有媒體直接就去抄中國的官媒不經查證當然我個人是覺得非常可惜啦但是他就全文照登照錄那麼遇到這樣的狀況的時候到底如果記者要求證或者像本席要求證因為我們看到是 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6689.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6713.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
根據了解習近平他在拜習會上是沒有提到賴清德三個字但是如果今天作為本席要來問政需求的時候這樣一個被中國官媒亂帶風向以至於台灣的媒體成為在地協力者或者是就直接不查證全文照登的時候那要查證 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6713.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6731.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
到底要問外交部還是問經濟部誰可以對這種在APEC發生的錯假訊息來做一個查證的窗口因為我們知道如果APEC的組織架構底下他會有經濟領袖會議嘛會有部長級會議那其實他有是跨經貿 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6733.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6759.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
那所以如果同樣的事件我們時光倒流本席看到了中國官媒特別寫了這個東西出來而且又有台灣的媒體全文照燈不經查證的時候那該怎麼辦本席現在拿出來的這個是自由時報但是他不是全文照燈他只是說據了解那到底這個了解的過程中未來還是像APEC發生這樣的事情的時候那麼應該是經濟部還是外交部 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6764.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6782.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
跟委員報告,我覺得這個從兩個方面來看,媒體自己現在要善用它的聯繫的方式,而且它的聲譽它要助長,它不能亂引用別的媒體來做這個,對它的聲譽其實是不好的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6782.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6802.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
那這個問題其實國安單位已經做出了一個澄清那國安單位大概澄清經過他詳細的查證三方的查證都沒有這個訊息顯然是他用他的假訊息那種資訊戰又來做這種事情所以我覺得是很清楚的 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6803.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6826.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
所以會看得到就是現在的國際場合當中中國他除了是大剌剌的小動作的穿小鞋變成小動作變成大動作之外媒體的訊息戰同樣的他也在進行當中而我們知道秘魯今年他們就搞了一個拜習會沒有講賴清德但是他就利用官媒來做處理然後來做一個認知上面的統戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6827.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6840.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
接下來下一場會議的時候外交部或經濟部有沒有針對這樣的因應的措施來做一個跨部會的討論呢?因為這個APEC外交部跟經濟部其實是一起主責嗎?還是政次? |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6853.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6871.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
報委員,我們有一個分工,像領袖會議是外交部來主責,這個年度的貿易部長會議是由外交部跟經貿辦,那麼其他的部長會看他的分工,比如說能源部長會議就經濟部主責,交通部長會議交通部主責, |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6872.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6886.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
婦女部長會議每年行政會會挑選適合的部長來代表大概是依照業務性質來分工但是這個在外交作為上我們經濟部都密切配合外交部一向在出發前大家都有一個跨部會的協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6887.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6913.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
好 所以說言下之意像這種有錯假訊息的時候你們第一時間有回報嗎那處理的SOP是什麼因為現在事後我們看到了就是大家都在都知道原來這是一個中國的認知作戰的套路其實在台灣被看到它就是一個手段跟方式那麼當這樣其他媒體以這種認知作戰的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6914.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6934.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
直接全文照錄中國官媒而中國的官媒當然是一個錯誤的訊息被台灣的媒體所引用的時候發現事情到現在那麼後來我們有自由時報有根據國安單位的說法提到了那這整個處理的流程的SOP是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6939.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6957.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
因為像中國的官媒發出來以後我們馬上去了解他這個媒體所講的是對的還是錯的我們非常非常懷疑他講的東西都經過他的一些加料比如說我給你舉個例他又談到新加坡的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6958.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6981.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
新加坡他又用這個新加坡同意一個中國的原則新加坡講的不是這樣子所以我剛剛講過他是偷糧換住移花解母做了很多當然我們各部會也要特別特別警惕我覺得我們跨部會要來成立一個如何來對應假訊息這個案子我覺得我們應該有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6984.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7010.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
本席的提醒就是說其實現在這種案例已經非常多了包括之前我們的公股行庫到中國去被邀請參加活動然後呢在沒有經過同意底下照片被使用然後還是我們的公股行庫就跟對岸成立了所謂銀行之間簽訂了銀行之間的MOU那麼同樣這也是被 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7011.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7021.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
吃豆腐但是這種豆腐一旦被吃就很難被抹掉所以說本席是要提醒的是這樣的事件在我們參加更多的國際會議當中會不斷的同樣的模式會出現那麼他會動搖民心又或者是讓我們的執政變得更加的就是被穿小鞋又或者是被吃豆腐這樣的狀況你們需要擬定一套像這樣的錯假訊息那麼透過中國官媒之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7040.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7065.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
外銷轉他們的大外宣變成是我們內部的錯假訊息那希望你們能夠提出因應的SOP好嗎因為就像APEC一樣當我要求證這個訊息到底是真還是假的時候會出現不知道主責的到底是外交部還是經濟部那這個時候你們必須要有一套的處理的SOP出來好嗎好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7070.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7078.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
謝謝林楚怡委員次長請回接下來我們請陳冠廷委員上台質詢再來我們請外交部次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7100.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7116.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
請填次長次長早次長早齁總和外交是林教長部長他新任部長之後的一個主要政策對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7116.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7146.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
那主要政策裡面是包含就是我們的科技、資金、人才一起走出去這樣講也沒有錯嘛那科技、資金、人才這三項東西的國際連結那最最基礎的東西是什麼我認為是安全就是安全的許可的機制在今年到現在應該也不是今年到現在2024年的我們給這個次長看一下的暗網公文也好或者是我們各個不同的外交部門的這一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7147.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7147.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
國防部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7164.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7185.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
接下來質詢國安局長的時候我都不斷的在強調說我們現在各個政府的部門非常不協調且模糊的安全席可機制已經被許多的國外智庫還有各國的情治的單位都有嚴厲的批判那在外交部在這個經濟人員在之前都會做一些實行調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7186.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7198.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
那我想請教一下後續是否有針對其因工作接觸的這些機密的資訊進行資格評估安全的資格評估主要是用哪個單位來審核評估多久評估一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7199.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7225.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
跟委員報告剛剛委員講的也是我們分兩個層次那麼新進的公務人員在外交學院結業以前我們會把這些即將要進入外交部的同仁的名單送給法務部調查局讓他調查局瞭解這些同仁的背景他的品格如果他有問題的話可能我們就不會錄取他這是第一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7226.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7242.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
進了外交部以後呢那比較高階的人員我們採用這個涉及國家安全重大利益公務員特殊的查核辦法要來查核他那麼多久查一次這個我想問一下我們多久查一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7244.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7262.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
我們好像沒有固定多久才是我必須說但是如果同仁要有異動的時候比如他要外放的時候或者從回來的時候或者他要升升官的時候他的階級調整的時候都會做一些背景的查核 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7263.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7286.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
謝謝,謝謝次長。這個很誠實、很直指核心的把我們的一些問題點出來。第一個就是說,從國務院到美國的國防部,到甚至他的各個不同的部門,他們的查核機制是持續性查核,這是不斷的在精進中。過去他可能是一年、兩年、三年查核一次,但是現在他們覺得說因應國家安全的這些挑戰,必須要持續性的查核,這是第一點。 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7286.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7311.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
第二點在美國的國務院還有外交安全局來做他們基本的一些審理那你剛剛提到的法務部其實過去我在國安會任職的時候他們有給我們填一張那填一張這個其實基本上是政府部門之間是不共通的這個機密等級的核可也就是說這個你填完之後基本上就是調你有沒有刑事的紀錄但是在美國的這個國務院的安全局裡面他們評估的範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7313.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7338.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
其實是非常廣泛的包含有沒有用過度的酒精包含有沒有用特殊的藥物包含他的伴侶他的配偶以及他的這個經濟的這個財務狀況有沒有被影響這些都是持續的在做安全核可的特別是高級官員但目前我們聽起來很明顯的我們沒有這樣子的機制只有在調動的時候有這樣的機制那 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7339.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7368.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
我過去的經驗是基本上你提出來之後兩年之間就沒有再有任何更新的狀況所以我們沒有辦法因應一個外交官他的對外接觸他被外放的時候他的接觸的背景狀況我們沒有這個相關的局處去做因應調整的那事實上現在95%美國的安全合格合法的機構是由美國國防部底下的這個國防部反情報安全局來做處理的那當然國務院有自己的系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7369.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7370.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
我講這麼多的意思是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7392.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7410.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
就是說我們今天遇到的總和外交你未來一定會跟國科會合作包括我們的太空科技的這個交流那是不是需要更緊密的、安全的、合格的這個機制才有辦法辦到還有經濟部你經貿談判的時候你是不是需要有跨部會的我才知道你的階密等級到不到啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7411.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7427.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
如果我們沒有每一個都各行其事的話那我認為這是一個對我們未來國家安全的保障是非常的是有威脅的可是我也理解現在的國家機密保護法的第14條有規定他說國家機密的支揮等等是由核定機關或者是上級機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7428.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7451.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
那我現在要鼓勵的是,包含我上次跟國安局講完了,跟國防部也質詢過就是我們變成要有一個跨部會的機制,就是跟國家情勢有關、國防、外交、安全有關的話必須要重新審理出一套安全核可的方法所謂安全核可的方法就是說,當你的security clearance的時候,比方說你的機密等級是機密 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7453.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7475.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
必須在這些政府是共通的我的安全核可就是到機密等級但不代表說你就可以接觸到外交部的機密等級的文件你有這個安全核可不代表你可以接觸到除非你必須要知道這些資訊才可以完成履行你的公務任務的話那你就可以知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7476.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7498.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
安全核可配合need to know這是最基本的一個做法可是很遺憾的從國安會到外交部到其他的部門我們現在沒有一套完整跨部會的機制那基本上美國政府的各個聯邦機構如果你的安全核可是比方說是機密等級他們是會互相承認除非特殊例外 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7498.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7513.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
除非特殊例外就是極端敏感的機制極端敏感的這個情緒的話他們不會讓他有這樣子的接觸但是其實基本上是這樣共通的所以我們我不希望重新發明輪值因為重新發明輪值是一個需要很長的時間跟資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7515.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7541.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
但是現在已經到這個時間點了已經不僅僅是一次、兩次、三次不僅是一個智庫、兩個智庫不僅是我們的友邦的海軍、空軍、陸軍還是外交的單位都一再的強調說這是我們共同面對的問題是不是次長可以檢討一下這些方案跨部會的來討論一下有沒有可能有一個願板的重新來思考一下我們的安全合格成績 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7542.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7562.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
其實我們政府是有發了一個特殊查核辦法行政院跟考試院的但是剛剛您提的跨部會比如說今天我要看看經濟部的一些機密等級的東西我有沒有clearance可能我們現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7564.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7579.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
應該是沒有那麼經濟部要看外交部的東西可能也是沒有但是呢我們可以透過一個公文交換的形式那麼在保密的情況之下可以去看他的公文 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7580.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7597.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
這個在部會之間可以做這方面的交流但是我沒有辦法就是主動到經濟部說我有這個clearance我可以看什麼東西不是不是所以市長你剛才沒有理解你是這個意思嗎你剛好是剛好相反不好意思沒關係市長這沒有關係我慢慢來再講一次就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7599.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7615.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
除非你需要知道並且有這個合可的層級你才能知道那沒關係這個細節的部分我們今天不談我們今天講的是跨部會的這樣子的協調跟你的揭密等級比方說我們現在在看一些很多預算的話我有哪些是需要知道的 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7616.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7637.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
並且是我有這樣的揭秘層級我才能知道所以我們不是要放寬保密的這個狀況而是要加強我們保密的能力這是一個基本上的不同那你剛剛說公文交換那其實又回到我們最基礎的一個我們最基本最邊緣的一個問題嘛像之前國防部內部的一個由廉政署派駐的三等辦事員 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7638.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7660.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
那他把這個公文他不需要知道的東西他把它傳送到其他不同的等於說把降級軍官的所有的個資等於是用透過內網的方式分散給所有接收人嘛所以他不需要知道這麼多他不需要有這麼多渠道但是他卻有這個渠道他的揭秘層級跟他所需要的渠道是不符合不吻合的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7661.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7673.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
所以我必要說這是一個跨部會的問題所以我們需要來去處理我真的是希望大家可以來討論一下安全核可的這個部分各個部門都把它放在心中那接下來我想要請教一下陳次長經濟部的陳次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7683.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7697.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
市長剛才你有提到我們台灣的這一個大幅度的對美的順差的部分你剛剛說這是好的是良性的是有利的這一個順差那就對就是有利的對美的對美國來講就是逆差 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7698.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7713.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
是不是可以請你來稍微解釋一下什麼叫做是好的那我剛剛我聽到你跟前幾個我們在野黨的立委來解釋我覺得我們的那個論述外交部要跟上經濟部的這個論述我覺得是好的但是外交部要跟上是不是可以舉細節舉例來說明第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7716.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7737.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
你覺得你這樣的說法﹖未來的川普的新政府會接受嗎?不好意思張偉再麻煩你給我解釋一下我簡短的回應第一點我所謂健康的逆差從美國的角度來講應是配合他的政策當他的政策是要發展製造業是要發展人工智慧是要發展先進製造業的時候我們出口到美國的東西主要是半導體 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7738.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7756.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
資通訊產品或伺服器等都是有助於美國發展製造業必要的中堅材,而且台灣供應的價格最合理,品質最穩定,而且是最可信賴的夥伴。幾十年來,台灣幫美國代工從來沒有洩密,從來沒有損毀我們客戶的利益。 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7760.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7786.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
第二點剛剛委員是垂詢說川普政府能不能接受這個我們只能來努力了因為川普不是一個人他是一個執政團隊我們要全面性的跟美國執政團隊來溝通好 非常謝謝次長剛才的說法我是接受的那第一點美國現在面臨的是再工業化那再工業化他是他們的主軸之一把製造業留下來把工作機會留下來所以這個部分次長你現在我們不是只有用形容詞我希望你把數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7788.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7805.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
分享給外交部讓外交部能夠未來我們的這個narrative我們的說法我們架構不要說這個再跟川普我們還是用過去的一套的說法面對不同的美國政府你要不同的策略跟戰略來去說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7806.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7827.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
那這一個部分我是希望這個次長跟外交部我們再做這個特別是有一個縮帖要給民眾知道的這也是非常重要的那這一個部分我就先質詢到這邊因為時間的關係但是我還是強調現在的總和外交不再是價值外交了價值外交只是總和外交的一部分不要每次國會議員在質詢的時候重複的講一些套話 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7832.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7854.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
我們或許會買單美國政府不見得會買單經濟貿易科技良性的順差你要怎麼去解釋讓對方能夠認可如果我們解釋不好的話中國的這些各個不同的這種錯假亂訊息就會利用我們的這種說法來去攻擊我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7855.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7857.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
先宣告待會馬文君委員質詢完畢之後休息5分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7896.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7899.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
我們下面請李宇君委員來發言質詢。謝謝主席。請外交部填次長。次長早。首先請問次長,無論是內部還是外部的因素,那目前台美的關係是不是現在史上是最好的關係? |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7925.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7928.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
當然,台美的關係一向來說 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7929.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7953.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
都是非常健康的而且非常持續的不論是誰當上總統因為川普也做過一任拜登在做現在川普在上來這關係是非常好但是當然也有他的變數現在川普第二任上來也有他的變數那我們要怎麼樣去掌握這個變數 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7956.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7959.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
讓這個關係能夠持續地往前走這是我們最重要的任務 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7960.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7985.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
好 那美國總統大選大家也知道已經結束了嘛照例勝選的一方會開始安排可能的內閣人士那川普安排內閣名單其實速度是史無前例啦但是現在美國的內閣官員從提名到上任可能要經過一些程序最主要的就是要讓國會行使人事任命權過濾掉一些不適任的官員 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7986.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7987.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
請問次長都有掌握嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8001.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8017.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
都有每一個現在提出的提名的被提名的人我們都會去了解他的背景而且他對於台灣的態度跟中國的態度等等他的以前所的發言到底是什麼我們都有掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8018.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8033.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
因為這個不像我們台灣一樣總統直接任命也不用管這些人有沒有爭議是不是合適任那請問就次長你的判斷這幾個人選裡面有哪些可能沒有辦法通過美國參議員的人士任命的同意呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8034.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8059.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
委員你這問題就難倒我了我沒有辦法在這裡回答你好那外交部是不是有掌握呢哪些人可能會通過哪些人可能會沒有辦法通過人事任命外交部應該是都會有評估吧報告委員這個我想這個權責是在他們參議院還有他的總統提名所以我想在這個階段外交部也不便做任何的評論跟評估沒關係那次長你如果不敢公開也不用勉強你但是想要再請教次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8064.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8092.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
就是這次川普點名的內閣官員裡面基本上都沒有看到他上一任任期的官員出現那你覺得這是為什麼呢當然我也只能從目前的一些報導來看他的這個趨勢第一個他可能是對他的忠誠度這是絕對需要的第二個他的政治的理念可能跟川普是同一個方向的 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8093.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8112.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
第三個我覺得有一個年輕化的趨勢年輕化的趨勢我想我可以看出的大概幾個方向大概是這樣子那麼確實怎麼樣的情況可能要他那個成立通過以後我想我們再做進一步的了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8113.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8139.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
那我再請教次長一個問題就是你覺得美國內閣官員的人事任命的這個程序是不是是一個好的制度呢那你覺得我們中華民國政府是不是也應該採取這個美國內閣官員的人事任命的方式過濾掉一些不適任的人選呢就像你擔任這個職務就非常的適任嘛因為你有非常豐富的外交的理念那你覺得中華民國是不是應該也採納這個制度呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8143.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8170.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
我覺得各個制度有它的強的有它的弱、有它的好、有它的缺陷所以我不辯置評了不過我覺得現在台灣目前的走的方式其實第一個速度也會比較快第二個也是用人因材用他的人所以我想台灣這個人才的挑選 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8173.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8176.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
爭議性可能少過現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8178.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8179.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
我現在有請國發會副主委和經濟部的次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8214.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8234.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
首先請問國發會的副主委和經濟部的次長,現在美國總統大選落幕了,確定川普勝選嗎?問題是因為川普在競選的時候,有多次高喊要對進口貨品,還有對中國要加徵60%的關稅,也直指台灣都搶走了美國晶片的生意。 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8235.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8235.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
報告委員,我先回應好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8253.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8271.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
川普在第一任任期裡面他在執政之前在就職之前講了很多世界上都認為不太可能發生但他都真的發生所以我們不敢對川普在競選期所講的任何的言論掉以輕心我們密切的觀察 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8272.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8294.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
但是如果對全世界來科證關稅的話﹖他還是有一些我們要來密切注意﹖比方說他是不是真的會用緊急命令來做這件事情﹖他對WTO的態度怎麼樣﹖世界各國跟他互動怎麼樣﹖他的執政團隊會做什麼樣的評估﹖還有他要怎麼落實執行﹖他的國會是不是支持等等﹖我們都必須要密切的觀察 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8294.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8321.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
但是我們並不支持這樣加徵關稅的做法因為這個會造成全世界貿易的這個遲滯對世界經濟並不好所以這個是但是我們必須要面對這個可能發生事來密切因應那第二點關於金幣的部分我們當然在這邊要公開而且正式的來說台灣今天的半導體的發展是靠我們自己努力以及全球供應鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8321.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8321.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
好﹗ |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8351.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8367.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
那我想問一下就是說像APEC在秘魯登場了但是現在我們值得關注的是由中國出資幫秘魯建了一個前開港在本月是營運那中國國家的主席習近平也參與開幕剪裁根據外媒指出中國透過資金去 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8369.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8383.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
建這個前坎坎的話對秘魯提出了多項的要求其中包括提名了2026年的APEC的會議主辦國CPTPP創始會員秘魯拒絕批准台灣加入申請案那中國現在在對台灣加倍的施壓那勸說各國鄰近的國家都切斷跟台灣的關係的互動並聲稱台灣是屬於中國的領土請問這些你們有掌握嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8399.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8414.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
有關中國跟秘魯之間的關係他們兩國的相關的交易我們目前當然我們就密切觀察這個是主要配合外交部在進行那麼有關CPTPP的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8415.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8427.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
目前公開的確定的原則是所謂奧克蘭山原則也就是說必須要有高標準的執行貿易協定能力有良好的過去遵守貿易協定的時機第三個得到會員的共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8432.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8443.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
這個東西國際局勢瞬息萬變,我們也在努力,這個主要是行政院經貿談判辦公室在主政,經濟部會配合他利用各種雙邊經貿對話還有經濟合作的各種計畫裡面來推動CPTPP的業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8451.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8462.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
好那我再請教一下次長如果萬一未來與中國ECFA真的如果被迫終止了那中國又用金錢外交的誘惑之下台灣要加入CPTPP你覺得還有機會嗎因為畢竟我們台灣為了 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8466.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8474.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
加入CPTPP完全要配合美國要求還有美國交換的經濟利益因為為此我們也開放了韓萊克多巴胺的美豬引發爭議更不斷的向美國購買武器表面上好像跟美國有關係友好讓台美關係持續的強化實質上對台灣想要加入CPTPP其實好像又是遙遙無期但你覺得我們這個月底會有好消息傳回嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8494.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8517.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
報告委員美國並不是CPTPP的會員國這第一點第二點當時開放萊克多安德這個是因為美方要求我們履行過去的承諾我們只是履行承諾但是政府為人民的健康把關仍然非常的嚴謹那麼年底之前傳來加入CPTPP的訊息大概不太可能這麼快但是我們繼續努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8519.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8522.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
主席再給我兩分鐘我再請教一下經濟部的次長再請教次長2018年美國對包括台灣在內的許多國家施加了綱旅的關稅那請問這個形同對台灣的貿易壁壘目前還沒有對台灣豁免對不對沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8540.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8541.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
據瞭解2018年之後這幾年間美國已經陸續延長或完全豁免對歐盟、日本、韓國、墨西哥還有加拿大等國家的綱領關稅對吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8553.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8564.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
對,有部分國家獲得貨...那既然我們現在台美關係事實上最好的為什麼還有什麼理由不能要求美國撤銷對我們的鋼鋁關稅呢?而且現在美國為了想要確保他們自己國家的國防產業及所有的鋼鋁製品相關的供應鏈不會因為政治因素受到干擾開始提倡所謂的有案外包那現在不是正好是一個台灣向美國提議免除鋼鋁關稅的最好時機嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8584.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8611.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
第一 美國為什麼不豁免台灣的關稅這個事情我們一直在跟美方溝通真正的理由恐怕要由美方來說明但是我方認為應該要給我們豁免這第一點第二點我們對美國出口的鋼我們的鋼產業大概75%供內需25%外銷我們對美國鋼鐵的出口事實上是成長的也就是說因為我們的品質、競爭力還有差異化的結果事實上美國對我們的鋼是有需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8611.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8611.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
好,是,謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8649.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8651.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
接下來我們請陳永康委員上台質詢主席有請田政務次長請田次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8684.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8694.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
委員長,市長好。今天聽取你的報告,其中剛好跟我原本準備質詢的內容是coherent﹖所以我們可以這個﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8700.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8722.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
您看第一個就您提到了就是在賴總統就職時候提到的產業鏈但是這個五個大產業鏈在美國總統這個新總統就職後那麼因為有些牽動互動的關係在談判的過程我想我們外交部同仁要花很大的功夫那麼尤其是這個順序 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8728.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8728.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8739.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8760.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
實際上是並不夠的只是專業的少數人才那我們必須要考慮到也就是兩奈米的過去雖然說是經濟部認為在2025、2028兩個國家的生產製程跟這個良率過程中間我們還是佔有優勢但是我們必須考慮到就不要人才太早被人家一下挖角挖走了 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8761.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8781.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
另外提出一點就是剛才也提到台美貿易中間不管是從美國角度看是逆差或是從台灣角度看是論差這個順差545億那我提出一個建議因為美方會要求我們持續在軍事採購 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8783.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8811.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
不管是透過FMS案子或是DCS案子那要增加額度我的建議就是未來是不是在Monterey Talk的時候能夠跟美方提出一個建言就是到某一個百分比的GDP以上這個軍售可以去抵消我們的貿易順差這樣子在關稅談判中間我們有一個有利的一個Leverage這個沒有對錯只是要透過因為這個是等於是跨 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8813.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8834.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
外交部、經濟部還有國防部來談這個差額一邊是我向你採購的軍售裝備的價錢持續在投資增加另外一方面你又因為我的順差增加了所以希望要我們的稅要增加這個部長您是不是可以提供一些建言 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8835.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8861.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
委員謝謝我覺得這個是非常重要的一個談判的籌碼那麼你不能說只要我們在軍工業方面的就是一直增加事實上很多貿易的等等都要放在一籃子裡面去考慮所以謝謝我覺得這個意見我們會回去跟部長做反應是這個因為是要跨部會了包括經濟部跟國防部 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8866.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8869.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
這是一個方法論,就過去8年來,不管是前面的川普 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8888.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8914.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
拜登現在又回到回去了基本上以美國一個強權來講他的美國的利益優先他是強勢威懾鬥而不破合作的和和平的和和而不和製造議題他要主導談判那尤其是這個川普總統他是一個非常就是說充滿自信自負的我這邊有一個4年前我買的我把他這句話講給你聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8922.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8935.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
我這四年前買的那從這張圖像上啊你可以看到美國政府啊尤其是對中共啊這個所有的條件談判啊他就是優秀的調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8937.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8957.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
他只是向右走走到壓力升高了然後又回溯回來他們的專業就是同步施壓法律作為然後呢形塑氛圍軍演表態然後再開始談那這個東西我是建議我們可以提供這個參考的資料給這個外交學院呢作為一個教學的運用的參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8958.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8972.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
這個部分我們去對應美中之間的競合之間就說那個四個C不管是cooperation, competition或者是confrontation但是它最後還是一個communication |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8975.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
8999.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
因為剛才前面委員也談到就是說我們很多跨部會中間一個協調不足的地方其實我也提出來了因為美國的川普上來以後他還是要提出他的新的國家安全戰略因此他的商務部、貿易部、國防部跟他其他部會他會有一個同步調的國家政策的指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9000.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9022.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
這個也是我們在推動希望我們政府能夠推動國家安全戰略不是國家安全法國家安全戰略法因為1986年的高尼法案裡面就提出了這項那我們希望推動的過程中間是站在支持外交、國防整個國家的領域上面我們希望提供一個工具做參考下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9024.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9025.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
國安局執行局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9042.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9069.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
這個是就是維護我們的憲法中華民國這是我們的目的我們的方法是要臺灣安全兩岸交流內外折衷國際商協那最後呢外面有很多的手段了有推判預測了有妥協了有宏觀了有圍觀有合作了反思了這個方法論呢如果你把它做一個Clockwise的轉動它會產生一些不同的成果那我這個建議也是提供這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9072.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9086.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
Mofa同仁做一個參考我們希望未來在這個在這個所謂的外交學院把這些新的東西用一個AI的輔助工具根據這個圖像那麼我現在請AI |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9091.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9093.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
美國總統大選後：立法院第11屆第2會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9110.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9122.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
提供美國的支持在國際組織中的參與,例如WHO和IKO,以增強台灣的全球存在。﹐與同性戀國家合作,以抵抗台灣的獨立主義行動。﹐地域聯盟﹐努力進入地域模式﹐例如印度西部經濟模式﹐並強調台灣的戰略重要性在全球供應鏈上。﹐提高經濟安全﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9146.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9163.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
我向您報告這只是一個用AI的輔助工具只是用上面的八塊手法就AI做出英文的分析沒有對跟錯那如果你把它這個轉動它會彈出更不同的結果所以現在有很多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9164.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9188.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
就是方法論這個是我們可以提供做部裡面做一個幕僚做地區問題的分析的一個參考工具這個我也建議將來可以把這個東西納到這個所謂的外交學院因為那邊用教學的工具方法那這個東西產生的結果在做政策上面的研析判斷的時候可以省掉一些事而不是誰對誰錯那這個我們會後把這個東西提供您這邊做參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9196.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9214.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
謝謝委員您的質詢我覺得內容非常非常的精密您自己也做過很多的功課我想這個東西對不管是對現任的或者我們將來外交部新進的同仁都是一個很好的教學的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9215.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9227.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
我也會請外交學院去找一個機會讓新進的同仁或者從國外調回來調動的同仁也去上上這個課我覺得對他們是有很大的幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9228.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9246.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
所以過去本席也跟外交部同仁在國外共同努力也共同分享經驗也感覺到外交部這個擔負的責任那麼也互動學習學了很多我們再次表達感謝跟支持之意也謝謝部長謝謝次長您謝謝謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝謝謝陳永康委員次長請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9256.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9257.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
接下來我們請馬文君委員上台質詢謝謝主席麻煩請麻煩請外交部還有經濟部謝謝請田次長陳次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9287.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9304.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
毛委員早市長早今天部長還在立陶宛這一次去歐洲只去立陶宛嗎還有另外還有到還有到哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9305.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9309.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
主要是立陶宛嗎?主要立陶宛無人機他帶了20個無人機的廠商去把台灣優質的無人機產業帶到歐洲去 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9323.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9338.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
我想請教一下因為部長他上任以後提出很多新的外交模式像是價值外交、經貿外交、同盟外交以及總和外交等等那想請教次長是不是簡單的說明價值外交的他大概的核心的意義是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9346.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9370.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
價值外交我們從比較抽象的就是民主、自由、人權那麼比較實在的就是台灣現在所進行的高科技所有那些晶片的產業都在世界上非常非常重要的產業還有台灣的一些精密機械等等各國都會需要然後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9371.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9390.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
還有一個就是智慧我們用智慧農業、智慧醫療這個都是台灣可以跟其他國家一起分享的價值那這些價值我想請教一下次長有一個德中協會您知道嗎?還是德台協會知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9395.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9400.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
我本人想就教一下1957年的時候最初是由德國聯邦議院成員組成長期關注德台的關係的長期發展而且是德國最早促進跟台灣關係的一個協會他也是非營利組織他主要目的是推動國際理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9415.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9438.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
提倡維護照顧和加強德國與中華民國之間的各種關係在2020年的時候他原來叫德中協會2020年的時候這個協會改名為德台協會這個部分市長知道嗎這個我不清楚跟委員報告60年了其他的同仁都不知道這個協會嗎到前面講好不好如果要 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9444.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9445.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
經濟部,這個協會直到目前還是當地民間最大的友台團體 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9460.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9472.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
成員超過100人,他涵蓋德國的外交官、學者、國會議員跟台灣的僑民,跟台灣駐德代表處關係密切,過去也時常共同舉辦經濟、文化、學術等相關講座。從1989年以來,該協會每次在聯邦選舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9480.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9486.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
的時候都會發起德國國會、柏林、臺北友好小組促進和加強傳播文化而且也促進台灣跟德國之間的文化交流這個成立在60年前的德台協會長期支持台灣推動合作首先我們看到就好幾個例子就是說他在推動國家人權委員會主委陳菊在訪問柏林的時候他們促成他參加德國的國會座談 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9509.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9514.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
也安排德國國會友台小組訪台拜會蔡前總統這個都不是很久以前的事情那還有曾經主動促成農事所跟林事所跟德國合作嘗試在台灣的漁電經驗引介到德國這個在民國111年的時候因為漁電共生這個前不久才推的政策而且這個跟農委會 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9537.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9546.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
就是之前農委會現在農業部有關也是在經濟部底下的我想要請教如果連這樣子次長都沒聽過你不知道這個協會各位報告我確實不曉得經濟部知不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9555.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9581.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
報委員這裡面我們要回去釐清一下再跟委員回報因為我們跟德國的經貿團體包括工商協會是有往來的但他用什麼名稱呈現出來尤其用中文來表示說德台協會我們要去確認是不是同講的同一個團體這第一點第二點我們跟這個德國駐台辦事處裡面他在德國的工商協會在這邊有一位專員那麼我們是透過這個專員跟德國工商團體建立這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9584.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9592.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
對話的管道所以的確我們跟這個德國的工商團是有往來可是是不是這個德台協會這部分我們要回去釐清一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9593.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9617.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
我再次跟外交部還有經濟部今天兩位次長在這裡德台協會回去以後馬上查查一下他在這個整個過程當中因為在110年的時候農委會突然改變以往的做法就是用研究計畫的方式來管考台德協會那時候是疫情發生的當下所以你用這樣子的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9618.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9640.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
說研究啊什麼的在疫情當下全球很多東西都是沒有辦法執行的所以用這樣子來看他的那個執行成效不好那時候如果你再回過去看看我們外交部還有我們的農業部就是過去的農委會你們看看你們在疫情的時候做了什麼或者有哪些沒有做的所以當你用這樣子來管考 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9641.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9652.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
今天因為你們都說不知道回去馬上今天下午馬上就是希望可以給我們一個訊息待會因為到目前為止農委會在111年的時候單方面就是把它廢止掉了它的在農委會時期頒訂的這個作業要點那也把每年定期舉辦的聯席會議停止 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9665.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9682.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
因為我們剛剛講了那麼多今天他有100人的一個成員而且高達60年的時間而且他涵蓋包括國會議員包括很多的一些相關的人士如果說我們價值外交我們這個經費才多少聽說是200多萬不給人家而且人家提出來了還已讀不回這是在農業部現在發生的 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9690.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9704.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
所以外交部也希望可以去監控這個不然你有什麼價值外交立陶宛都已經說我們那個台灣立陶宛台灣代表處台灣經貿代表處是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9708.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9734.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
他們連這個名稱都要改甚至在之前不久因為在選舉過後我們把一些半導體的投資案他們也片面已經都先說雖然你昨天有提出來新的說那個要暫緩他們的電力供應不足用這樣的理由還有他們的土地開發要變更還來不及唯有想要終止跟台灣的半導體的合作我們馬上率 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9735.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9737.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
我們的外交部長馬上率很多的廠商過去還包括無人機的聯盟就是漢翔的董事長也過去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9745.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9773.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
人家一直一直在終止我們的很多的我們等於熱聯替人家冷屁股然後投資的合作的都好幾億好幾億我們就馬上很要緊似的就然後去跟人家講結果這個只是要兩百多萬人家都已經先電款了我們卻不把錢給人家而且還已讀不回這個部分下去馬上查查清楚迅速在今天可以先給我們初步的一個調查的結果還有書面報告可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9776.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9783.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
外交部也要讀出這個部分因為過去是跟外交部後來採用農業的部分是由農委會跟就是現在的農業部要講什麼把它講清楚公務員再回覆一下立陶宛那家那家公司確實他是電力跟土地的問題但是這並沒有終止我們跟立陶宛半導體的合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9803.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9819.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
他們在新聞上面出來的是這樣我不知道是不是認知作戰就像你們剛剛在講的新加坡有沒有講說他們支持一個中國原則你們去看看新加坡的網站人家就是一個中國的原則反對台獨寫得清清楚楚不用搖頭回去看他的網站今天我們的前經濟部長林慶義代表我們去參加IPEC對不對他有邀請拜登總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9831.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9832.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
以後有機會可以到台灣來訪問拜登總統他說還會 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9836.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9841.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
可是美國的媒體有寫嗎?有寫這段嗎?他不是因為他有沒有寫,然後他講的就是假的,我們要懷疑林信義部長他講的是假的嗎?今天一直在講說哪一個媒體寫什麼,中方的媒體出什麼,美方的媒體出什麼,那個一點意義都沒有,那個才是真正的任職作戰。我們要的是務實的,我們今天花了那麼多錢,每年的外交預算不斷不斷的增加,可是我們現在獲得的成果才是我們要的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9864.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9867.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
結果如果有其他的有我的組織只需要一點點的經費我們卻已讀不回這是非常大的羞辱今天如果你有發現什麼樣問題應該要很誠意的解決如果我們認同認為他有什麼不恰當的也應該要說明清楚包括經濟部還有包括我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9885.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9905.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
外交部這一點我們希望這個應該要本於我們在所有的外交推動上面如果你連這個都做不好你要怎麼說你跟其他國家可以做得好這個部分可以迅速的提出來我們會趕快查一下那經濟部我再利用一點點時間請經濟部陳次長漢翔你有沒有聽說他要引進外籍勞工移工報委員這部分我沒有資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9917.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
9919.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
如果漢祥的董事長回來的時候請確切的查查清楚漢祥為什麼要用外籍移工當他說我們F16我們用了一千多億的預算去給漢祥他說要做亞太維修中心F16的亞太維修中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
9936.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
9962.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
當他說要做永英號當他現在是無人機的產業聯盟他們都說要創造我們國內的就業機會可是我們看到的他卻要引進外籍移工尤其是做我們的都是我們高級民性的都是我們重要的一個武器裝備你卻要引進外籍移工中科院有嗎你今天如果你做不來那你就不要引就不要答應這麼多的工作你亞太外交中心現在連一台的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
9964.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
9966.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
我們回去查覆以後再回覆委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
9986.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10013.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
我們現在強烈反對如果因為漢想不是一般的公司企業我們有很多缺工的狀況因為你其他的工作需要這樣子的外籍移工來協助可是你漢想不是所以你經濟部有很重要的一個角色當初我們的公和典書全部給他花光了你今天都沒有創造我們的工作機會而且漢想的勞務派遣甚至高達一千多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10014.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10015.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
馬文君委員休息5分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10046.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10046.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
主席響鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10071.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10077.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10096.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10099.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10115.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10119.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10126.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10131.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10162.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10167.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10183.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10184.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10222.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10245.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10276.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10276.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10305.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10305.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10317.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10322.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10345.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10345.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10382.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10390.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10412.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10421.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10448.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10451.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
我們繼續開會,我們請王洪威委員上台諮詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10468.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10468.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10484.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10494.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
這次美國總統大選之後其實世界各國都在為川普上台來做準備因為川普上台之後其實對全世界的經濟都會造成引力的衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10498.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10500.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
尤其針對台灣的部分川普說要付保護費可是我們現在所理解的所謂的保護費並不僅僅止於軍事的部分甚至在一些經貿部分還有採購的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10514.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10531.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
其實世界各國都有一些準備那我要直接問次長的事央行在前幾天做了一個建議因為我們也被美國再度的列為匯率操縱國所以央行在建議說台灣可以擴大採購美國的石油 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10536.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10555.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
那麼這個可以看到包含在韓國也表示說可能擴大對美國採購石油跟天然氣那麼歐洲美國是直接點名歐洲應該跟美國採購更多的天然氣那所以在這邊我想請教一下針對中央銀行的建議台灣可以擴大採購美國石油請問一下經濟部贊成嗎那會付諸具體的行動嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10564.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10581.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
外委員目前我們採購的進口石油美國的比例大概接近30%那第二大來源天然氣美國的比例大概10%左右大概是第三大來源那經濟部的立場在商業條件可行的情況下我們當然會來考慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10582.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10608.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
所以可以考慮增加對能源方面的採購對不對好那但是呢這個問題我也同樣問過中央銀行就是事實上比如說像天然氣我們主要的是來自於亞洲嘛也是基於這個價格啦或者是有一些外交上的考量那如果因為不管是天然氣也好或者石油也好其實呢這個船運的時間越長事實上它的成本會越高 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10609.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10620.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
那所以他有一種可能就是我增加對美國的採購因為美國離我們比較遠那麼會使得我們的能源價格成本因此而墊高有沒有這樣的可能的顧忌跟考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10622.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10650.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
所以我剛剛有先報告就是說當然從能源安全的角度不管價格多少我們一定要分散來源這是第一個條件第一個條件我們採購的時候也要看商業條件合理我們會來考慮那麼商業條件有很多複雜的做法比方說它是長約還是中程還是短約或者現貨市場都不一樣這個是可以搭配但是我們就要做一個比較合理的商業模式那我們就會考慮來採購所以未來提高對美國的 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10651.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10651.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
我們會評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10669.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10687.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
因為如果你對美國石油採購為了要付保護費然後使得我們的石油的成本提高或者為了要付保護費我們的天然氣成本提高就直接我們的電價就會上漲所以它必須基於在一個油電價格穩定不會上漲的狀況才可以另外請教次長21世紀台美貿易倡議首批協定請問生效了嗎簽訂是簽訂但是生效了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10699.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10726.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
美國方面的程序好像還沒有完成還沒有完成主要是國會還沒有通過對不對?國會他的程序是總統要certify要先認證說我方已經完全執行了然後他再提交跟國會報告好那我想請問現在正值新舊總統政權交接那麼因為我們事實上在去年就已經完成簽訂對不對?有簽署但是始終因為沒有生效就是因為美國國會沒有通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10727.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10751.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
那這樣子的一個政權交替的過程會不會使得我們這個首批協定的生效出現變數我們覺得這個協定基本上當時是美國國會兩黨的共識來推動的在目前看起來應該是美國國會程序比較慢這個他對世界各國的例子都是這個樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10751.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10779.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
所以它有沒有可能發生嘛最後政權替換了這個可能性我們來觀察但是我現在沒有辦法所以要觀察因為不要等於白談了另外我還是關心的是就是事實上我們跟美國一直在有這個貿易談判而美國一直在其實一直在點名的就是我們對於包含對於美豬包含對於美牛的相關的禁令那所以昨天我也問了這個院長和部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10781.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10798.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
那麼我想請問一下次長可能會更清楚一點我們到目前為止跟美國談判裡面是不是有觸及或者是答應美國牛絞肉的進口或者是還有包括對美國豬肾的它的來氣的提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10800.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10824.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
報告委員這個部分我個人這邊沒有訊息你這邊完全沒有訊息因為談判不是在經濟部來主導所以部分我這邊沒有訊息對啊很可惜啊今天那個我本來問這個經貿辦公室今天沒有人來但是我在這邊還是因為我們這都有記錄還是有一點就是我們必須要在食安的部分一定要把關因為美國是一直對美牛美豬啊對我們很不爽啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10824.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10838.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
希望這個讓我們開放而我也相信川普上來之後這個壓力只會增加不會減少好那還剩下一點點時間對不起時間暫停一下我請一下我們的外交部次長田次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10848.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10862.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
市長好請問一下現在我們的部長人在立陶宛嗎?是的在立陶宛他有沒有可能發生一個狀況他現在帶團出去然後呢立陶宛改變就是我們台灣辦事處的名稱 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10865.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10890.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
這個案子其實在醞釀一段時間了哪一個案子你說改變名稱這個案子嗎那麼當時成立這個是雙方政府經過一些協商所造出來的結果那麼他要改的話我們也不讓他片面有機會去改我們要堅持我們的立場可是如果人家要改呢就像人家南非要讓我們辦事處簽出首都啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10893.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
10914.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
南非的案子我們並沒有屈服目前還在談我們目前的態度是這樣子那如果人家要改呢那麼我們要經過適當的方式來協商而且我們也要透過一些理念相近的國家與我們支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
10914.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
10931.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
所以這個部分我們會力爭到底我要講的是其實剛才馬文俊委員也特別提到我們今天部長去訪問立陶宛我很怕我們面臨到一個非常尷尬的局面我們的部長堂堂部長在立陶宛人家立陶宛要求我們要把台灣辦事處的名稱給取消掉我曾經問過當時吳釗燮擔任外交部長我說如果改變我們的台灣辦事處名稱他要不要負責他願意負責下台負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
10944.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
10946.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
現在他到了國安會,如果部長都到立陶宛,再度的跟立陶宛示好,還把所謂的無人機國家隊也送過去了,我們半導體技術也送了,投資也送了 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
10960.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
10977.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
萊姆酒也喝了 通通都喝了 結果現在來吃我們豆腐 說台灣辦事處要改變我們當然 贊成我們外交部的態度 但是一旦改變的話那我當然在這邊講 一定要有人負政治責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
10978.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
10979.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
接下來我們請賴司法委員上台諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11014.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11015.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
台美貿易順差多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11035.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11053.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
今年大概五百多億五百多億原來你們公布有八百億五百多億那現在大家都在擔心的關心的川普上台以後關稅全球關稅勢必提升這句話對吧他在競選的時候是這樣講是不是一定提升提升多少不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11060.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11064.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
所以我們的貿易順差會減少嗎?你們評估報沒有?中共敏感信不信沒有?如果對我們的電子產品全部恢復課10%有影響嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11084.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11110.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
如果照他所競選的時候所講的對全世界都課徵百分之十到二十的這個關稅而且對中國的產品課徵百分之六十的關稅那這樣的話我們有可能對美的出口有可能在電子產品部分有可能會增加因為美國有那樣的需求可是你不要忘了喔大陸去美國的前十名六名是台商喔台商影響喔是是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11115.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11132.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
所以你的意思是美國關稅課越高,我們越好,轉單效果,是這樣子嗎?不是不是,報告委員,我剛剛不是這個意思,我的意思是說美國的關稅我們要非常看他怎麼實際上執行來做整密的評估那就問你了,美國關稅他一定增加嘛,對不對,市長也對嘛,市長也這樣子,挺市長這樣認為嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11140.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11147.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
目前的跡象看起來他不會食言,他講的競選,但是增加多少我們先講一下增加多少不知道,填市場有沒有感覺或者你的guts feeling,起碼5%以上,會不會,接近10%,可能不到10% |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11159.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11178.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
當然我們也希望這個稅的增加不要傷害到產業的結構跟這個貿易的往來啦但是這個可能目前我們沒有辦法去做決定請教陳次長他關稅提高對我們是利多還是利空 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11180.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11193.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
整體來講美國提高關稅當然是對全世界的貿易都比較不好啦我們並不支持這樣的做法我們希望維持自由貿易你這個講話跟國部長不一樣喔國部長我霸氣了國資委你們老闆啊本事我說沒差啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11199.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11208.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
因為可以吸收啊!我們這個買賣可以吸收啊!他以為它是市場市場所以我剛剛跟委員報告是說因為我們認為美國的需求還是存在所以反而...田市長你講一下吧!我想田市長這麼有經驗的都沒有影響嗎?怕是要被人選結果所有的相關的經濟方面的專家都這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11225.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11228.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
對亞洲來講重創台灣是被重創的田市長這句話對吧我前後我要先看一下那篇報告齁你剛剛寫的好幾份報告包括經濟學人這麼有名的對不對包括這個荊州刊包括其他的都這樣子分析阿亞洲受害最深你看喔他是起來齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11252.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11262.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
全球GDP會受影響美國同盤會增加1.8%美國GDP會降1%它都是建構在美國大幅提高關稅然後大陸的GDP會降1%左右大概0.7%到1.6%最大的輸家墨西哥、中國大陸跟歐盟這句話請問田市長對嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11282.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11307.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
經濟學人講的報委員這些問題很難在這裡就跟您報告是或不是其實有危機也有轉機在某種程度來說尤其對台灣來講台灣這些高科技可能在這一批關稅上會有某種程度的轉機市長你同意川普講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11309.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11316.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
講MEGA或者MACA這個讓美國再次偉大就是以美國的主體當作生意所以你賺到多少錢他幫你賺回來啊我一開始問你說他我們賺到500億美金他想辦法幫你賺回來啊這才是生意人啊都跟你賺了不行啊我這樣講我對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11328.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11339.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
這個大概是一面的做法一個國家要偉大的話他還需要其他的同盟國家一起協力對啊他說你賺我這麼多錢生力人來講生力人就是你不能佔我便宜啊你不能賺我這麼多錢啊所以你要給我買啊買能源啊買武器啊拼命給我買啊這大家可以預估的吧這樣推論對嗎請問市長對嗎田市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11359.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11367.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
至於能源問題,剛才我想陳次長已經說明了,那麼武器方面呢,我想可能由國防部來做比較...來,我請教陳次長啊,我們現在天然氣最大的進口國是哪個國家?應該是卡達卡達,過去我們跟俄羅斯買很多,現在還沒跟俄羅斯買 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11379.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11406.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
報告委員,跟俄羅斯的進口是因為我們在日本這個Kuya島這邊有一個投資啊那個是一個三國的企業的合資所以是因為合資的關係進口過來並不是我們直接跟俄羅斯買的我知道,但所以實際上還是在有跟俄羅斯買石油嘛講整包,講了半天說要制裁人家結果都沒有啊因為現實的問題我們對俄羅斯是出口管制我們沒有制裁的法律啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11407.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11422.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
王美華當部長接受我的質詢講那時候剛二五戰爭沒多久但是三個月內不可能一滴這個天然氣從俄羅斯來我們是因為我們投資方的關係這是一個合約的問題我請教田次長看第二個page川普上任以後CPTPP對我們來講更加辛苦困難吧是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11435.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11457.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
以他過去沒有參加巴黎協定的這個過去的記錄來說他可能對氣候變遷他個人認為是一個這個議題對他來講並不是他最好的理由所以我講的都對嘛他會繼續的不理全球氣候變遷行動然後CPTPP我們更加沒有希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11458.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11462.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
抱歉,你剛剛講我是氣候變形,CPTPP兩個都有,兩個都有CPTPP美國一開始就退出來,才會變CPTPP我知道,所以你們外交部都畫胡龍蘭老百姓說吃美牛吃美豬可以加入CPTPP你們次長講的,那個帥哥叫什麼名字來著?姓李的,不知道掉到哪裡去了李淳 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11485.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11489.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
李純講的 公開講 公投的時候說我們吃美豬可以加入CPTPP你Google一下 青菜公共咧 都這樣子服弄大家結果現在吃了 也沒加入啊 因為說美國雖然他不是CPTPP成年國 他會幫助我們 對不對他是美國爸爸 會幫助我們 是不是 結果沒有啊 更加沒有希望啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11511.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11514.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
你現在來看的話這個CPTPP都知道共識絕啊市長 你要不要講一點話對CPTPP講一下讓我們有點希望好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11523.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11531.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
我覺得你剛剛提的共識決其實共識決只是三個之一啦它奧克蘭這個三個原則嘛高標準能夠履行它貿易的承諾第三是共識決那麼台灣其實這三項都已經充分的達到了你知道進度嗎跟我們同一時間申請的英國已經加入了台灣到現在連工作小組都沒有這就是現況 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11554.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11556.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
我們的外交單位、經貿談判處還不是普通的捧場啊英國跟我們一起加入了我們到現在連工作小組都沒有你都不理你啊最後一個小問題我問完你就走 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11568.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11584.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
川普上來是不是會興起全世界保護主義各國的興起?你課我關稅,我也課你關稅啊!大陸難道就沒有籌碼嗎?你課他關稅幾十趴,大陸課你美國商品的關稅,大家都來課關稅,有嗎?有可能嗎?有沒有可能? |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11590.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11616.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
這個我想要等他真正開始以後才會形成這種風氣那麼現在他還沒有就任當然他說了很多東西他履行他競選的諾言那麼各國也都在準備中因為他孤立主義所謂的爆章砸他孤立主義所以各國可能也會漸漸不要問喔 大家現在只有談關稅喔還有一個會員律喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11620.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11620.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
謝謝賴市保委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11647.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11652.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
次長請回接下來我們請侯孟楷委員上台質詢主席謝謝麻煩要請我們田次長跟經濟部陳次長請田次長和陳次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11674.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11694.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
兩位次長好我想不是部長來因為你們兩位都是長期的事務官所以某程度上我反而覺得是說可以更講一些專業的判斷而不要受政治立場或者是講這種空話所以本席也希望是說能夠救教因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11696.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11713.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
我們今天召委提的這個議題其實是非常重要美國大選已經兩個禮拜了那結果完之後後續台灣跟美國的貿易或是相關的合作的部分其實都很受對沒錯新任的川普總統要上任的影響所以我先提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11714.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11735.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
先不要我們官方這邊講是說不知道川普總統他選舉的承諾到底會不會兌現或說未來會不會推動我覺得這不是我們官方應該要去評論我們應該都要以人家總統候選人他競選時候的政見或想法就要以這樣的方向去準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11736.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11756.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
人家 你 因為你剛這樣子的一個回答進碰的程度上你好像在講人家是所謂的競選支票不一定兌現啊但是 名嘴可以這樣子說我們官方立場不能有這樣的一個態度我覺得這第一個本席要很嚴正的一個先提醒那再來第二個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11758.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11777.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
川普總統當選人他在過去競選期間就已經講了他就說科增關稅把關稅調高晶片商會自己前來設廠美國一毛錢可能都不用花他甚至有點名到說台灣把美國95%的晶片市場都搶走了有注意到這個新聞嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11779.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11807.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
好 那如果說假設如同剛剛我們好幾位委員都在強調的就是說 如果未來美國真的上川普真的上任之後他要調高這個相關的關稅那會不會勢必要又希望是說連帶的把這一些上中下游廠商都集中到美國生產因為他美國再次偉大很重要的核心價值就是他們要恢復製造業嘛那這樣會不會擔心我們包括台積電或是相關我們的這些高科技晶片廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11808.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11834.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
有可能到美國設廠甚至把我們更核心的技術也請往美國這個機率有多大?有沒有評估過?報告委員對外投資台灣最近幾年來因為委員剛說要做一些比較事務性的報告我報告一下我們最近幾年來台灣每年對外投資大概200億美金左右表示我們台商已經在做全球佈局因為台灣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11836.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11861.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
經濟、工業和科技的發展已經足以到全球去佈局來延伸我們的實力以及跟當地市場和其他貿易夥伴之間加深的合作這第一點第二個,台灣的產業特性跟日韓不一樣日韓他是集團他整個過去不管是三重或是LG等等他都是上中下游一起去台灣的產業特性是中小企業組成的螞蟻從兵 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11862.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11888.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
所以我們去的時候當台積電去必然它的供應鏈要過去服務它這樣才能夠維持我們的競爭力而不是扶植當地的供應鏈而已當然我們也希望跟當地供應鏈合作那麼這是一個彼此互惠互烈作所以會不會過去當然為了維持我們的實力的成長這個合作是有必要的因為我們的產業形態跟日韓不同第三點 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
11889.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
11916.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
至於科技方面的外流的話我們有一個投資審查的機制所以任何對外投資都要經過經濟部跟各部會、跨部會的一個審查像比方說台積電去美國的投資雖然是相當先進的晶片但是我們在審查過程中很整密地做了評估它的在美國的投資計畫是2028年量產在台灣是2025年量產在美國目前兩個場在台灣目前大概十個場 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
11918.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
11942.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
臺灣在台積電全球的晶片大概200萬片一個月但是美國那個大概是2萬片等等這個數字我回去要確認不過我們是經過一個評估要確保臺灣的國家利益、經濟實力和科技實力為前提的情況下來協助我們的供應鏈跟我們的廠商對外投資市長你講到重點重點就在於是說我們一直擔心跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
11943.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
11963.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
害怕或者是說我們也認為為什麼過去一直講台積電叫護國神山就是台積電的存在讓很多人會認為是說我們台灣是相對安全可是從過去這兩三年裡面其實開始有人在炒作說如果說台積電沒有在台灣的話可能台灣的處境就會相對危險 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
11964.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
11980.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
那再來是你剛剛有提到就是說我剛剛讓你完整的敘述就代表是說你現在講到的是台積電現在生產多數都還是在台灣技術都還在台灣而且跟美國相差來講差不多有3年左右的時間對不對一個2005一個2025一個2028嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
11984.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12000.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
那但是現在美國的政權輪替政黨交替了那我們未來因應這1月20號之後的狀況我們有沒有做過評估或是說如果說1月20號真的共和黨川普上任之後他也要求說我要改變遊戲規則增加成本你的進口關稅提高那還有你的技術 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12008.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12020.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
那時候我們投審會一個投審會有辦法阻擋或是抗拒美國政府的力量嗎?除了投審會以外我們還有沒有什麼樣的機制作為是能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12022.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12049.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
去阻擋或說能夠抗拒這樣力量的報告委員第一個我們內部當然有做準備跟評估第二個投審會是一個跨部會的機制他是每一個都向到自己的首長他並不是就這個會議來決定各個部會有各司其職來做經濟的評估、安全的評估、產業的評估、國際關係的評估外交部的次長也是投審會的成員所以外交部次長單位到外交部而且整個國安體系都會做評估第三個我跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12050.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12071.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
因為我們也希望台積電的投資能夠成功而且國際局勢瞬息萬變我們會隨時滾動性來檢討他的投資計畫審查如何對台灣最為有利這個是最高原則好啦 市長本席提出來啦這一個問題可能是賴總統才有辦法去回答但是本席先提出來是我們先看到問題了 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12073.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12089.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
我們當然都希望臺積電的投資成功但是怎麼樣能夠把核心技術跟流台灣在其他地方的投資成功這個是關鍵好不好那個田次長一個部分請教因為我們有看到說海地我們的友邦 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12091.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12116.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
這幾天新聞從今年整個狀況及海地我們的友邦其實不是太好的那在5月10號的時候就舊政府還是吳釗燮部長的時候他曾經被問到說有兩個邦交國長期是有隱憂的他沒有點名哪兩個邦交國但之後媒體去報導他說有推敲有可能他講的是海地跟瓜地馬拉這個我必須要先說明清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12117.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12129.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
吳部長只有講兩個邦交國長期隱憂他是擔心有可能有斷交的風險但是沒有講哪兩個邦交國可是現在我們看到是說海地他的首都太子港 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12130.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12149.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
據外媒報導,被80%幫派份子把持,並且造成說有2萬多人顛沛流離是居無定所,也非常的辛苦。那我想請教一下,到目前為止,海地政府有沒有對於我們的外交部有提出什麼樣還有需求? |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12150.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12154.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
目前我們大使館人員安全是沒有問題的那我們那邊的僑民或是僑胞 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12170.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12191.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
的安全狀況也是有掌握也可以掌握那對於他們政府現在動盪當然因為是我們的友邦但有沒有會在這個時候提出超出預期或是不合理的要求沒有到目前為止是沒有的那我們會不會因應譬如說要維持友邦而反而會有一些狀況產生 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12194.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12220.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
不會在海地目前狀況我覺得他只是怎麼樣把內部的次序做好我們沒有感受到或者沒有那個質詢雙邊的邦交會問題好我希望邦交股票再有任何的散失但是也請注意關心因為在這個議題上面從上一任部長到現在好像比較少提及但是本期還是善業提醒好不好以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12223.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12247.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
謝謝洪孟楷委員 次長請回鄭天才 鄭天才 鄭天才委員不在 邱志偉 邱志偉 邱志偉委員不在鄭振前 鄭振前 鄭振前委員不在 林思敏 林思敏 林思敏委員不在我們請楊瓊英委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12254.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12256.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
臺灣民意基金會在昨天公布了最新的全國性民調他探討出民眾對於美國 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12282.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12297.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
新當選的總統川普先生的態度跟當選後臺美關係的看法我想這是全國以及全世界大家都非常關注以及美軍協防臺灣的信心就針對這樣子來做調查的結果顯示65.3% |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12305.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12319.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
臺灣民眾並不擔心川普當選後的臺美關係但是也有57.2的民眾他是不相信川普政府會在中國侵台的時候他會派兵協防臺灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12320.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12345.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
也有另外44.2的民眾不樂見川普來當選47.6的民眾不欣賞川普台灣人對於川普總統曾經有很好感但是也因為近期他給世界有一個不可預測的感覺讓不少人都不敢有過度的期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12345.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12353.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
市長你頻頻點頭,也講到精髓,也就是說川普這一次的選舉針對於台灣,經濟部在這邊,台灣我們這個很重要的半導體產業跟我們的防務議題的發言,讓很多的台灣人感到不可預測的一個特質感跟擔憂 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12369.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12371.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
所以在這樣的情況之下我首先要請教兩位面對國內民眾的憂心我們要如何的來加強臺美關係的發展尤其他在選舉的這個期間他特別提到臺灣應該要交保護會 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12387.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12402.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
這樣子的言論,那我們政府要怎麼去因應呢?如果說我們只花大錢來買軍購,那就可以換來很穩定的這個台美關係嗎?田上我敬佩你,你馬上給我搖頭,請做回答。 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12404.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12422.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
委員你可能會錯我的意了不過我必須說這些民眾的你不是搖頭還是你贊同你會錯意是什麼意思這是民調本席所說民調的背景給你你搖搖頭我以為你 對不對我的一個習慣會頭受不了控制你說什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12428.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12450.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
我說我的頭受不了我的控制,有的時候會動一下,這點請您見諒。你把你的引內告訴給世界大...請說明,針對議題。我們必須尊重、要了解我們民眾對於川普上來、台美的關係,怎麼樣去發展。 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12451.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12476.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
所以本期告訴你基金會所公布的最新民調我們會去審慎的去了解民眾他們想的是什麼但是呢從另外一個角度來看我們也必須告訴民眾臺美的關係立這麼多年以來雙邊的關係是相當相當的穩固我們不會因為總統的變的話發生巨大的變化 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12478.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12497.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
其實兩黨跟我們的關係都非常好臺美關係剛剛也說了一個民調出來並不擔心65點這個3那表示跟你的論點是一樣但是我沒有看到這些言論這些言論成為保護會的那你的因應呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12499.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12522.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
台灣的價值對美國價值美國要再次偉大其實他需要很多盟邦一起來做這個事情那台灣的價值呢在我們在太平洋這一塊維護了民主人權也是美國所要求的普世價值這一方面我們是有貢獻的所以不能專門說要保護費這個詞我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12527.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12553.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
我非常贊同你所說的也就是川普在競爭在競選的時候他提到台灣應該要交保護會這一類的這一類的言論那請教田次你認為這個言論是不對的是不認同的是不可能的還是怎麼樣呢這個是他競選上面講的語言大家能夠聽得懂大家能夠聽得懂未來在明年一月份他上任會不會如此作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12554.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12575.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
但是我們也要跟美國參眾兩院也好美國的民眾也好說台灣在這裡所扮演的價值我方當然要講我方的立場我們的價值全世界要再次偉大沒有台灣是不行的我要這麼說確實但是我們只有講我們自己好別人怎麼做他已經言論出來我們有沒有應對 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12576.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12604.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
我們會謹慎的去了解他將來怎麼做請教,如果在1月份之後他上任他仍舊要台灣交保護費你會認同嗎?你會交嗎?那看看他保護費的額度是多少哇,你講真心話了因為在我們的預算書裡頭我有看到內容等到我們在整預算的時候再來做討論我希望審慎之以台灣人民安全最重要的為最高原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12606.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12623.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
請教市長,我剛才特別說了在我們整個半導體方面以及防護的這個議題方面呢那他也在選舉的時候也提出那你認為你認為在他上任之後民眾有所憂心那你認為在他上任之後我方怎麼應對 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12625.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12645.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
如果單純針對半導體我們先講事實事實就是台灣的半導體是他的70%的客戶是美系客戶而且呢我們跟美國的不管是設備製造商或者IC的設計商還有他的這個應用部分呢我們是緊密結合在合作這是個現實 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12646.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12664.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
是一個事實不是現實在這個事實的前提下川普總統的政見要落實下來的話一定要跟台灣合作所以在經濟部立場我們是會支持我們的半導體產業跟美國進一步緊密合作而且這個事實對台美當中都有益 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12667.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12690.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
但是這個不可預測,就像川普重返這個白宮﹖很多人說﹖他曾經自己說﹖他的字典裡頭最美的詞就是關稅﹖這個關稅對於我們﹖對於我們來講﹖我們是一個出口導向的國家﹖在這樣的情況之下我們的衝擊會怎麼樣﹖他主張全面性的保護主義壁壘 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12691.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12707.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
那對所有的進口呢﹐亞太地區呢﹐他準備10到20%﹐這是他之前的言論﹐當然在他上任之後﹐他會不會這麼做﹐本是認為我們政府應該聽到這樣子的言論﹐我們應該有因應的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12707.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12722.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
是,鮑威爾,我們做最壞的打算,最嚴謹的準備,如果它對全世界都科百分之十到二十的話,不同的產業,不同的公司會有不同的衝擊,或有的時候是機會跟利益,例如轉單效益,也有可能是衝擊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12723.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12742.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
這個部分必須各個公司不同但是就經濟部的立場來講的話我們的準備因應方向就是我們會協助我們的台商在海外的佈局在生產基地方面能夠避險尤其在中國大陸的投資怎麼樣把它引導出來到新南向國家這也是一個避險的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12743.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12770.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
這個似乎是所有的廠商大家都已經超前在部署但是我仍舊希望聽到我們的政府你有所作為你現在目前所說的都是親手自己趕快去努力的一個方向所以我告訴你現在台美的經貿合作那大家都是非常的緊密在合作尤其我們上代協商現在還在進行協商的也就是台美貿易倡議的第二階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12770.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
12791.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
本席認為想請教我們的政府目前正在談判協商會不會有所變化會不會有所依照你們目前所掌控的這個資料會不會請知會不會在我們的臺美貿易倡議的第二階段是不是會面臨更多的變數請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
12795.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
12823.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
這個跟委員報告第一個我這邊沒有完整的訊息因為主政單位是行政院經貿處辦辦公室第二個站在經濟部的立場經貿處辦辦公室你經濟部也是其中一個啊是是是對不對怎麼可以如此推本期最不希望聽到我們的行政部門你今天代表到立法院來就是你的課題啊怎麼會說這是誰的呢政府是一致的你也是經貿辦公室當中經濟部絕對是站非常重要的一個角色啊怎麼可以如此的推呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
12823.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
12837.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
我剛剛跟委員報告所以這個是你們每天在做的啊是 沒有完整的訊息但是我要下面接著要講經濟部的立場我們是希望能夠繼續進行我們也跟美方透過各個管道我們希望要繼續進行這也是我們希望嘛那所以本席針對本席的提問也就是說目前正在談判正在協商這個就是機會跟剛剛您說的這個就是機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
12847.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
12863.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
那我們要嚴正以待去看會不會有更多的變相會不會有更多的變相這個時間點這兩三個月來講對我們台灣對全世界來講大家都繃緊了神經內是不是啊大家都是拭目以待而且是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
12866.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
12883.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
這個基礎就是我們的機會而且現在正在創意正在協商所以在這樣的情況之下本席是希望我本席非常希望我們台灣是這麼好的國家而且每一個人民這麼努力尤其我們的廠商是這麼努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
12885.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
12885.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
委員的問題是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
12907.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
12910.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
在我們的詮釋裡面所謂保護費就是加強合作啦雙方來加強合作啦那麼要讓利的話要看美方提的條件是什麼目前情況不明但是我們就是先降低風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
12937.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
12955.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
還有強化連結,包括對美國、對歐洲、對新南向國家……市長,你這樣講就對了。你們不用怕回答,因為這個階段是大家共同在討論。你應該是,其實我相信你最後的回答,也就是你心裡的話,其實大家都緊張。 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
12956.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
12956.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
謝謝楊瓊瑜委員次長請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
12983.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
12990.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
蘇清泉蘇清泉蘇清泉委員不在接下來我們請葉元之委員上台質詢馬上請外交部政務次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13012.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13012.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
請填次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13019.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13046.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
委員好 這樣好 當然我們都不希望對岸在國際上面打壓我們的外交空間但是我覺得我們外交部、我們政府也不能夠事事都在掩飾因為只有面對真相、面對事實才能夠對症下藥找到我們的外交空間維持兩岸和平那我想請教一下外交部對於新加坡公開講說確實他們有主張反對台灣台獨這個事情外交部現在看法是怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13049.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13076.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
我們對這個案子我們做一個詳細的比較中國所發出來的訊息是說新加坡是支持一個中國的原則那麼我們為了這個我們跟新加坡去了解新加坡說他們是支持一個中國的政策這兩個有明顯的不同所以沒有講到黃巡才反對台獨這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13078.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13100.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
總統今天媒體都是這樣報導啊他是反對台獨對嘛所以意思是什麼你們非常急著不是 市長等一下等一下你們非常急著要去幫人家澄清嘛所以讓人家公開的再一次的呼籲反對台獨這件事情我不太知道說外交部為什麼要這麼急著做這件事情啦你們的動機是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13101.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13124.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
我們不要澄清這個事情今天媒體都是說外交部被打臉我們是找出來中國用各種的方法把不當的言詞塞在別人的嘴巴裡實際上我今天看媒體的報導是講說新加坡再次表示說反對台獨外交部也理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13125.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13143.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
所以這事情已經被操作成一個負面的事情了那外交部你們在做這種事情有這麼粗糙喔我以為外交部的人員都經歷了很豐厚的外交訓練啊怎麼會這麼粗糙讓這樣的話題本來一天就過去了然後可以最後好像搞得裡外不是人喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13144.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13164.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
然後再來習近平到底在拜習會的時候有沒有提到賴清德這三個字我們的政府高層都說沒有嘛我們的國安局當時國安局局長講說他就比對了白宮的新聞稿說完全沒有講到賴清德我問一下次長請問一下白宮的新聞稿是逐字稿嗎是拜習會的逐字稿嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13165.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13180.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
我們對這個國安單位所提出來的解釋請問一下我再問你嘛白宮的新聞稿是不是拜習會談話的逐字稿是不是是新聞稿還是逐字稿你們外交部都不會去看人家的新聞稿 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13183.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13199.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
兩邊在會後發的新聞聲明我們都有看我的問題很簡單請問一下白宮的新聞稿是不是拜習會的逐字稿並不是逐字稿嘛那請教一下所以我們的國安局長怎麼可以根據不是逐字稿的新聞稿因為新聞稿只有載入他們講話的部分嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13201.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13227.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
就可以直接去講說習近平在拜習會就是沒有談到賴清德為什麼可以這樣推論呢這是因為過去這一段時間我們看到兩邊對話之後發出來的雙方發出來的新聞稿對嘛但是不是逐字稿嘛就像我們今天我們兩個對話逐字可能最後發個新聞稿可是我們不會把我們所有的對話發出去嘛所以我們怎麼可以講說新聞稿沒看到就一定沒有哇賽我們的外交體系國安體系邏輯是這樣喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13229.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13259.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
新聞稿可以把它當組織稿所以所以到底市長所以習近平到底有沒有講到賴清德總統有沒有到底有沒有各方面的查證是沒有的沒有齁那因為所以你們講說因為那個是大陸官媒的報導嘛這又在搞認知作戰嘛齁那我給大家看一下齁這是紐約時報啦前天的報導啦裡面就有講啊你可以看一下啊它裡面就有提到啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13260.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13271.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
他說習近平特別講說美國如果要維持地區和平的話就必須要公開反對台獨他也罕見的提到台灣總統賴清德這紐約時報的報導所以這紐約時報被認知作戰了市長這是他跟習近平的談話嗎這紐約時報的報導在講拜習會的啊罕見的提到賴清德不然習近平是跟誰談話 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13294.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13310.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
我覺得如果我們的外交單位我們不是說習近平他提到賴清德是我們支持他這樣的 不是而是說如果我們今天事實都要掩蓋的話我們怎麼對症下藥啊而且我真的不太懂你們那麼在意這個事情幹什麼習近平提到賴清德總統然後說賴清德的態度那你就反駁他就好啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13316.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13341.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
反駁習近平啊他說不是我們現在賴清德總統已經主張中華民國113年了他已經是中華民國派了習近平不要亂講話反駁他就好了嘛你去講說他沒說幹嘛你又不是他所以你們然後就把他搞成是認知作戰我真不懂欸這樣的一個操作的用意意義在哪裡你看美國的報導就有嘛你一直去否認這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13342.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13353.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
我們是要凸顯你務實一點好不好務實一點啦每天在那邊講認知作戰、認知作戰台灣人民都聽到都沒有都覺得到底在幹什麼啊再請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13357.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13376.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
昨天我們的行政院長那個卓榮泰講說不能講以美論因為所謂的理念相近的國家要互相信賴沒有人要說以美論但是我們不能夠評估一下川普上任之後對台灣可能造成衝擊嗎這算不算以美論這是不是以美論市長你覺得是以美論嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13378.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13394.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
這個是很 評估嘛 評估嘛 對嘛 所以為什麼把所有的評估都要把它打成是以美論呢 我也不懂啊 現在川普 我問一下次長 今天經濟部也有人來嘛 請教一下川普上任之後有沒有可能提高台灣的 台灣的關稅 有沒有可能 有沒有可能有沒有可能 外交部次長你可以回答啊 因為你們 你們對美 你們也有對美關係啊 你覺得有沒有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13404.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13413.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
按照川普競選的承諾這個是有可能的有可能嘛那經濟部次長承諾多少承諾多少那你們覺得承諾多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13415.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13439.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
有沒有可能很高有沒有可能我跟委員報告一下如果關稅太高的他其實傷害了他本國的通貨膨脹也會發生所以這一點所以你覺得你的評估是不會很高我不是這樣講他如果調得太高他也會傷到自己是但是他還是會調高對我們也會有影響那這算不算以美論算不算市長覺得算不算以美論 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13444.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13461.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
我們只是很務實的討論國家未來可能遇到的困境嘛這算以美論嗎不是吧不是說只要討論美國對我們可能造成傷害都是以美論吧那請教一下我們台積電有沒有可能台積電A16技術製程會在美國有沒有可能你們有評估過嗎經營部 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13468.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13492.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
技術的問題我沒有辦法詳細回答你有評估過你們部長一天到晚講台積電現在美國說因為我們台積電在美國有66億美元的補助對吧你知道這是嗎是他們現在要求台積電A16技術製程要在美國啦你們知道這是嗎當時台積電去投資的時候是經過投審會審查我們有做過縝密的評估那所以你覺得這個東西沒有影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13494.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13509.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
他要量產要比台灣晚3年而且他研發中心在台灣所以我們認為台灣的技術會維持領先的地位所以次長你的評估是說雖然A16技術製程有可能會在美國但是因為我們會比他早量產3年所以不會受到影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13511.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13533.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
這是經濟部的評估嗎會正面的影響還會有正面的影響所以美國所以台積電最好那種高先進的製程就多去一點還會有正面的影響不是這第一個台積電的商業決策而且台積電做過台積電本身也做過整密的評估我們以台灣的利益為最高指導原則台積電做過評估為什麼張忠謀在2022年會說在美國投資是貴且浪費 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13535.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13559.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
張創辦人的解釋我沒有辦法替他回答你說台積電做過評估但他們創辦人公開講說在美投資貴且浪費有一個高盛大家知道嗎亞太地區首期經濟學家他說除了北京之外台灣、韓國、越南都可能會籠罩在美國提高我們關稅的陰影當中這是高盛講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13561.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13589.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
所以事實上就是會嘛事實上是全世界都會嘛所以要做好因應嘛不是說大家討論因應之道就是以美論嘛最後我問外交部次長一個問題請問一下現在慶賀團決定派誰代表了嗎還沒有請問一下四年前那時候是四年前八年前當時是什麼時間點會決定派誰你在外交部服務很長一段時間嘛沒關係我問一下四年前那時候是什麼決定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13592.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13620.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
八年前是什麼時候決定的?我要查一下這個是這個時間點決定的嗎?在籌備當中那現在目前可能人選有哪些?你們方向是什麼?現在不變透露那什麼時候會有答案?會比四年前慢嗎?會比八年前的人選慢嗎?我必須看我四年前八年前我們是什麼時間我沒有辦法馬上回答您這個問題再確認一下我沒有辦法馬上回答那會不會是立法院長? |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13621.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13623.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
不確定。不確定。不確定。好,謝謝。謝謝葉元之委員。次長請回。 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13636.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13663.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
已登記質詢的委員除了不在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束本日會議有王定宇委員、洪森漢委員、邱志偉委員提出書面質詢請列入記錄並刊登公報請相關機關已書面於兩週內答覆委員口頭質詢未及答覆部分或要求補充資料者亦請相關單位已書面於兩週內提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13665.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13683.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
委員令有約定期限者從期鎖定這裡做一個宣告有關外交部主管收支公開及機密部分預定於11月28日進行詢答12月3日下午5點前收案12月9日處理提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13684.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13709.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
我再重複一次有關外交部主管收支公開及機密部分預定於11月28號進行詢答12月3號下午5點前收案12月9號處理提案外交部收到整理提案後希望能夠把握時間跟提案委員做好溝通以利審查本日會議到此結束上會 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13717.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13725.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
委員會主席 |