IVOD_ID |
162873 |
IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162873 |
日期 |
2025-06-25 |
會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-19-17 |
會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
會議資料.屆 |
11 |
會議資料.會期 |
3 |
會議資料.會次 |
17 |
會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
影片種類 |
Clip |
開始時間 |
2025-06-25T12:41:23+08:00 |
結束時間 |
2025-06-25T12:54:23+08:00 |
影片長度 |
00:13:00 |
支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3c0085a4689617f531d966f648fad7b72e63c9c5beafd2007cefc3e4f112f4f094a7d0e73f209c415ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
委員名稱 |
葉元之 |
委員發言時間 |
12:41:23 - 12:54:23 |
會議時間 |
2025-06-25T09:00:00+08:00 |
會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議(事由:邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、經濟部部長、農業部部長及中央銀行首長就「因應國際經貿情勢變化,如何協助我國產業面對台幣匯率及國際能源價格遽變」進行報告,並備質詢。【6月23日及6月25日二天一次會】) |
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委員好部長好昨天你有提到禮拜一有提到說2026年綠電百分之二十是一定可以達標對不對但我們都知道說現在光電確實是發展遇到阻礙然後您是有提到說可以透過光電水力或地熱來補但我們的了解就是水力跟地熱實際上發展應該只能補一部分一小部分主要您可能還是把既往放在風電但風電的部分您真的那麼樂觀嗎 |
transcript.whisperx[2].start |
48.044 |
transcript.whisperx[2].end |
56.979 |
transcript.whisperx[2].text |
因為我的了解是好像今年跟去年外資都走了一批嘛所以你的那個底氣就風電你覺得可以發展的底氣來自於哪裡 |
transcript.whisperx[3].start |
58.823 |
transcript.whisperx[3].end |
81.168 |
transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我們大概有盤過這個所有的供應那麼我們也在最近希望把這個原來計畫的這個33能夠提早讓我們如果能夠提早然後第二個我們獎勵現在在施作31 32的廠商我們建議他能夠提早來on grid來供電 |
transcript.whisperx[4].start |
82.068 |
transcript.whisperx[4].end |
97.541 |
transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那麼最提早他進度的部分我們給予一些獎勵所以兩個部分嘛第一個你33要提前嘛但好像3-3會用到一些比如說3-1 3-2大家不要用的場域那些場域呢規模都是比較小的 |
transcript.whisperx[5].start |
98.243 |
transcript.whisperx[5].end |
107.911 |
transcript.whisperx[5].text |
所以這個部分開發商願不願意進駐這是一個很大的問題那第二個問題就是您說會提供一些獎勵讓他們提早問題是獎勵是什麼我們獎勵就是對現有的廠商都是適用什麼獎勵怎麼樣的獎勵我們的獎勵嘛看他什麼時候可以供電嘛所以會獎勵什麼 |
transcript.whisperx[6].start |
120.609 |
transcript.whisperx[6].end |
131.113 |
transcript.whisperx[6].text |
獎勵什麼對你說我會給你獎勵那你總是要說是譬如說給錢還是什麼獎勵嘛你要一個具體東西嘛我們獎勵就是說當他我們可以幫他購買這個他的店 |
transcript.whisperx[7].start |
134.575 |
transcript.whisperx[7].end |
152.263 |
transcript.whisperx[7].text |
幫他購買他的店因為這個基本上3-1 3-2來講對他們來講他們是零元的存購他主要是要賣給民間但是我們可以透過獎勵制度我們台電可以收購 |
transcript.whisperx[8].start |
153.863 |
transcript.whisperx[8].end |
169.533 |
transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我覺得那個部長因為都講得很模糊啦那很模糊就是說人家要知道說有什麼具體的獎勵這是第一件事情第二件事我剛剛提到的這也是提醒啦就是說你的場域三十三場域很多是規模很小的人家不見得會願意進駐嘛 |
transcript.whisperx[9].start |
170.899 |
transcript.whisperx[9].end |
199.151 |
transcript.whisperx[9].text |
所以你的樂觀我不知道是建立在什麼樣基礎底下就確定說我們對所有的環境都非常的清楚所以我們認為我們經過整理以後我們可以吸引到這個是部長您都講的比較話都比較滿但是實際上是真的是這樣我們保留然後謝謝委員的提醒再來就是如果我們國內的發展瓶頸因為您之前也提到就是說可以去菲律賓買店 |
transcript.whisperx[10].start |
200.572 |
transcript.whisperx[10].end |
211.77 |
transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那菲律賓重電運回來光經濟部就有兩個版本的說法三月份的時候那時候講說電池船不含發電成本運輸就是5.5元那是三月份講的 |
transcript.whisperx[11].start |
212.694 |
transcript.whisperx[11].end |
238.957 |
transcript.whisperx[11].text |
五月份的時候又說他重電運回來成本只要四塊然後加上台電的輸配的成本大概一度是五塊這是五月份講的那我不曉得說你現在您對於這個菲律賓重電然後運回來這件事情有沒有新的說法還有他的進度是什麼我們現在先考慮在國內這邊的發展所以菲律賓是以現在就不考慮了 |
transcript.whisperx[12].start |
241.092 |
transcript.whisperx[12].end |
256.388 |
transcript.whisperx[12].text |
菲律賓要看那個市場的這個需求不是啦 部長這個菲律賓這個是你自己去年提出來的嘛那時候大家在這個委員會還花很多時間討論嘛結果三月份講了一個說法五月份講了一個說法那今天是快六月底了 |
transcript.whisperx[13].start |
256.989 |
transcript.whisperx[13].end |
271.339 |
transcript.whisperx[13].text |
不過你又說我們不考慮了我們還是以國內為主我沒有說不考慮啦對 那就是具體來說這個計畫是什麼時候要實施嘛它到底它的購電成本是多少嘛因為不能夠每一個過兩個月都講得不一樣啊 |
transcript.whisperx[14].start |
272.355 |
transcript.whisperx[14].end |
287.768 |
transcript.whisperx[14].text |
所以到底具體來說是怎樣這只是我們的計畫嘛計畫都可以討論嘛可以update嘛對不對根據環境的需求我今天到這個你們都講嘛說我為什麼要到菲律賓去然後你講的你們也不是很清楚嘛 |
transcript.whisperx[15].start |
288.268 |
transcript.whisperx[15].end |
314.163 |
transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那我說我要來報告這個部分菲律賓這個部分呢這個也不是我們的這個經濟部的重點嘛我們經濟部的重點就是滿足國內的用電需求然後我能夠在2040年的時候把再生能源提升到30%問題部長現在的問題就是你看喔你光是講一個菲律賓重電你的說法就一直在改變然後之前提出的構想大家請你來報告然後現在你又講說 |
transcript.whisperx[16].start |
316.024 |
transcript.whisperx[16].end |
336.245 |
transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我們暫時不考慮那就是會讓大家覺得你講話比較偏向信口開河對於你講話的信任度會打折扣經濟部長應該一言九鼎講出來的話應該就是要嘛就是計畫一部分要嘛就是說會具體朝向那個目標 |
transcript.whisperx[17].start |
336.906 |
transcript.whisperx[17].end |
356.572 |
transcript.whisperx[17].text |
但是話每次講出來都變來變去然後一下這樣一下那樣因為你這麼講所以我現在就不跟你討論這個菲律賓這件事這個不是我討論的問題啊是你今天大家會懷疑所以問你嘛會質疑嘛那你要來報告你要說明嘛具體怎麼樣你現在又說因為我這樣所以你就不跟我討論有那麼傲慢的部長嗎 |
transcript.whisperx[18].start |
359.173 |
transcript.whisperx[18].end |
383.371 |
transcript.whisperx[18].text |
今天從頭到尾菲律賓重電都是您本人提出來的嘛所以那時候經濟委員會也有討論過嘛那現在我只是在問進度而已那時候經濟部還做了一個 薩爾奇是做一個報告叫做什麼台菲的那個電力合作評估報告我引用的也是你報告的內容三月份的 然後五月份你接受媒體訪問又有一個新的說法那又再過了兩個月問你最新的進度 然後你說怎麼樣我不跟你講 |
transcript.whisperx[19].start |
384.485 |
transcript.whisperx[19].end |
407.648 |
transcript.whisperx[19].text |
有這麼傲慢的部長嗎這個叫做傲慢的話那我當然啊不是現在你講的東西大家問你進度而且這是攸關台灣能源的欸我今天不是在問你私人的問題欸我沒有問你什麼從業那些私人沒有我現在關心的是我們能源的政策欸然後你是部長你說欸我不跟你講我不是說我不跟你講我沒有講不跟你講這是你講那你剛剛怎麼說的 |
transcript.whisperx[20].start |
409.305 |
transcript.whisperx[20].end |
434.257 |
transcript.whisperx[20].text |
你剛剛怎麼說的我說這個問題我們現在不討論我不是不跟你講為什麼這個問題不討論那之前你來這邊報告了一兩次都是浪費時間嗎好 議員你如果認為有需要我可以排這個然後我們讓他我沒有說有需要我現在只是在問這個進度而已我們就排這個專案報告我只是問這個進度而已那部長從頭到尾這件事情都是您提出來的 |
transcript.whisperx[21].start |
435.077 |
transcript.whisperx[21].end |
463.346 |
transcript.whisperx[21].text |
只是在問進度那大家為什麼會關心能源就是因為很多點讓大家擔心說會有缺電的問題這也都是國人關心的那部長本來就應該回答跟解決啊是啊 我只是說在現在我們在找你如果需要的話我們可以跟你順便報告主席 那我還可以繼續問嗎那跟你請教別的問題啦那個我們現在假設 |
transcript.whisperx[22].start |
465.066 |
transcript.whisperx[22].end |
482.347 |
transcript.whisperx[22].text |
現在第一個菲律賓的光電是本來你提出來說可以補足台灣這個用電缺口的一塊嘛另外一個是我們接下來是不是要跟我看那個中油要跟那個阿拉斯加公司要簽一個天然氣開採的備忘錄嘛 我跟你請教一下這個問題 |
transcript.whisperx[23].start |
484.122 |
transcript.whisperx[23].end |
497.112 |
transcript.whisperx[23].text |
根據那個總統府秘書長潘孟安的說法是非常願意加入這個開發案但我看其他國家比如說日本日本國內對這個是質疑很多啦有幾件事情第一個他們認為這個開採成本會很高 |
transcript.whisperx[24].start |
499.226 |
transcript.whisperx[24].end |
522.251 |
transcript.whisperx[24].text |
第二他們覺得這會破壞生態所以有很多他們的團體寫信給日本的首相說不要參加然後有保險公司也說不要承保而且叫銀行不要融資所以日本國內對參加美國天然氣的這個開發案是有疑慮的我想問一下我們經濟部的態度我們參加這個是怎麼樣 |
transcript.whisperx[25].start |
523.41 |
transcript.whisperx[25].end |
548.86 |
transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我們參加的話這個是會根據我們中油的這個評估報告值得參加我們才會參加所以現在是覺得值得參加嗎因為我們現在這個跟他簽了MOU我們現在還在持續溝通中所以到目前為止還不確定是值得參加還是不值得參加是嗎那現在考量的點是什麼就是要參加有什麼好處不參加又有什麼考慮 |
transcript.whisperx[26].start |
551.272 |
transcript.whisperx[26].end |
573.627 |
transcript.whisperx[26].text |
參加不參加我想就基於專業的考量跟市場的機制阿拉斯加送天然氣跟油到我們這裡在交通上面在安全上面有充分的優勢如果說我們考慮到成本如果這個成本綜合成本比我們從其他的地區買來的油氣要低的話我們就會參加 |
transcript.whisperx[27].start |
577.284 |
transcript.whisperx[27].end |
601.646 |
transcript.whisperx[27].text |
你說只要跟美國買這個油氣比其他的地方成本低我們就會參加但是如果說跟美國買比其他國家比如說比澳洲比中東貴我們就不參加是這個意思嗎所以現在還在評估這個成本我們整體在評估這個總成本所以不見得一定會參加美國阿拉斯加天然氣的開發案聽起來是這樣我們希望說這個部分可以公開透明 |
transcript.whisperx[28].start |
602.327 |
transcript.whisperx[28].end |
617.287 |
transcript.whisperx[28].text |
因為這個參加阿拉斯加這個案子在日本其實大家都是很充分討論的但是在我們國內都沒有充分討論所以大家並不了解政府在做決策的時候考慮的點是什麼並沒有讓大家可以參與這個討論希望可以公開透明在這件事情上面 |
transcript.whisperx[29].start |
618.759 |
transcript.whisperx[29].end |
642.104 |
transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這個部長可以嗎 中油是公司啦中油是公司啦 國營企業會在這個董事會裡面充分的討論所有的董事都會成他自己的如果你說中油是公司 都由公司來決定的話那為什麼我們總統府秘書長他可以公開講說台灣很樂於參加這個開發案啊不是公司嗎 為什麼是由總統府秘書長來宣布 |
transcript.whisperx[30].start |
643.174 |
transcript.whisperx[30].end |
653.864 |
transcript.whisperx[30].text |
所以這本來就是公共政策的問題嘛希望可以公開透明啦因為在其他國家都沒有什麼不能對社會大眾講的在我們國家做什麼事情好像都很怕人家知道 |
transcript.whisperx[31].start |
654.81 |
transcript.whisperx[31].end |
678.928 |
transcript.whisperx[31].text |
但大家知道不是說 大家都是希望為了國家好如果政府可以提出一個說服大家的理由 當然去參加但是 而不是說我們有評估評估好我們就參加 不好我們就不參加是 謝謝委員那所以可以 這個部分可以公開嗎環境是不一樣啦 你指的是日本對 我說日本但是我們是台灣啦對啊 那為什麼日本可以 我們不可以咧很多日本可以 台灣不可以的事情 |
transcript.whisperx[32].start |
680.351 |
transcript.whisperx[32].end |
697.039 |
transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那這件事情為什麼日本可以台灣不可以因為日本他今天在要怎麼做他不是我們台灣的範本嘛當然日本要怎麼做不是我們辦法我們是說大家都一樣嘛都是要參加這個開發案別人做法是這樣我們做法卻不是這樣差別在哪嘛 |
transcript.whisperx[33].start |
697.879 |
transcript.whisperx[33].end |
711.239 |
transcript.whisperx[33].text |
部長我今天不是來跟你耍嘴皮子啦我們關心的是能源的問題這也是國人關心的啦是所以希望你可以誠懇的跟大家做說明啦不要用這一種態度啦報告委員我想我們希望的是專家討論啦 |
transcript.whisperx[34].start |
714.945 |
transcript.whisperx[34].end |
734.125 |
transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那你要管那所有的專家不是你指定居民的事情我想有很多的事情你把專業的事情做成政治的考慮我認為這一點我現在也是請你報告專業的事情我沒有講任何政治的考慮成本考量是政治嗎 |
transcript.whisperx[35].start |
735.006 |
transcript.whisperx[35].end |
763.589 |
transcript.whisperx[35].text |
沒有喔 不要扣帽子喔沒有啊 你剛才講說日本怎麼樣怎麼樣所以我們台灣就要怎麼樣怎麼樣日本也是用專家啊日本的專家他們也是用成本啊 生態啊 環保啊這些角度啊所以我剛才回答你也是我們按照你剛才所講的那你又沒有講啊你就從頭到尾就沒有講說你是怎麼考慮的嘛啊我只是說可不可以公開透明你可以讓更多專家參與嘛我剛才也說明很清楚我們也是專門考慮啊你完全都沒有講什麼內容我講的話你根本就不聽嘛沒有 我都有在聽你就沒有講內容嘛 |
transcript.whisperx[36].start |
765.012 |
transcript.whisperx[36].end |
780.485 |
transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我一直想聽你自己要聽的我沒有想要聽什麼謝謝大家 我們現在就休息好不好不是休息啊 結束了啊好 謝謝那登記發言委員初步在場 |