| IVOD_ID |
162820 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162820 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-19-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
17 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-25T10:11:01+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-25T10:26:34+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:33 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3c0085a4689617f5308006b2ed33c3c62e63c9c5beafd2000e579ccbb426f19880161a9ac653e9315ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
張啓楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:11:01 - 10:26:34 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-25T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、經濟部部長、農業部部長及中央銀行首長就「因應國際經貿情勢變化，如何協助我國產業面對台幣匯率及國際能源價格遽變」進行報告，並備質詢。【6月23日及6月25日二天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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請郭部長郭部長博定你都說你很注重安全我們繼續來搶救人命就是高雄大樹區的51公頃的山坡地山被鏟平了樹被砍掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
44.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
69.938 |
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我看你們昨天發了一個重要的新聞說這個案子啊你們已經依法廢止了光電許可事實上我去查你們廢止的應該是一小部分施工的許可吧你們廢止的是哪一部分如果照現在你們這樣的一個處分方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
71.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
85.641 |
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絕大部分的光電板是不是還是會留在那邊山還是沒辦法恢復原狀還是存在它的危險性呢你們昨天發了新聞說你們廢止了光電許可是哪一部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
87.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
116.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我請我們副署長跟你報告各位報告我們廢紙的部分是他部分的施工許可對嘛那紙廢紙的一小部分這個現在最嚴重的是什麼山已經被鏟平了然後這個光電板我去查這個光電板一共有一期跟二期20萬片的光電板潑在被鏟平的這個山上要20萬片喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
117.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
144.555 |
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第二個它的發電量第一期發電量30兆瓦第二期15兆瓦一共加起來45兆瓦現在民眾要的真相是什麼危險性存在啊結果你們做了一個動作事實上的真相是高雄市政府只做了第二期的水土計畫許可的廢止只做了這個動作而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
146.394 |
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174.392 |
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那你們啊 只做了一小部分的施工許可那就會造成剛剛講的你大部分的光電板還是留在那裡嘛第二個 你的發電還是大部分還是存在嘛更嚴重的 山還是被鏟平了 沒有恢復原狀 對不對危機還是在啊我們不是在搶救人命嗎 白天你說要注意安全嗎現在是附近的居住的民眾都已經來陳前開了記者會了說不要重演小林村 媚村 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
175.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
183.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
這樣一個悲劇你們怎麼會只有做這個啊你們是在打假球嗎這樣怎麼對得起人民啊那危機來了怎麼辦發生了悲劇怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
187.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
208.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
根委員報告 其他的部分因為我們本來就在裁罰我們現在密切的在跟市政府監督他基本上我們會用最嚴格的標準來看這個事情他現在也陸陸續續在改善當中依其水保部分市政府也正在處理當中 李政補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
209.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
218.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
真相就是山已經被產平了然後剛講的20萬片的光電板大部分還是存在嘛然後繼續要發電嘛 是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
223.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
249.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那危機還是在 博定你是要解決不是 報告委員你們大動作發的這個新聞我們這個經濟部啊這個是依法來做事情那如果對方在這個寄存的這個這個案場裡面啊它是依法設置的那麼再不違反這個所謂的山坡山坡地的這個保育水土保持的這一些規範的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
251.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
277.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我相信我們也沒有法條法規來撤銷或者是要他還原來的這個部分因為水土保守法會證明他對這個所謂的人身安全是沒有這個危害危機就產生了前陣子一場暴雨滾滾的泥流就衝下來所以民眾才非常緊急的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
278.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
301.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
陳情開了記者會還有立委已經到現場去探勘嘛危機是現在進行式而且現在紅台帝又極端企劃我一直在提醒你它是現在進行式你們說要趕快處理結果現在發現你們是打假球啊你要徹底去解決問題委員我們沒有打假球你講這樣的這個說法是不是有一點過分來部長我們來看我們用實際的狀況來看你看左邊這個是開發前 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
306.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
320.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
一片利益釀然的這個土地是一個山坡 上面是樹利益釀然的 右邊現在被鏟平了水土保持又沒做好多觸目驚心的這個畫面你都說合法啊 來大家知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
324.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
340.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
依照建築技術規則建築的這個規定在第262條山坡地有下列各種情形之一者不得開發就是它的坡度是陡峭的超過30%這個坡度超過30%就不能開發喔我去查你看 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
345.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
366.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我們坡度啊在三級以下的就是30%三級以下的大概只有47.16有四級坡以上的還有四級坡的這個有危險的超過一半耶這多危險的事情啊這不是一個違法的一個操作嗎然後現在危機已經在產生中啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
366.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
386.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
你發現危險就趕快解決問題啊所以我們已經停止他再開發了嘛然後我們再來衡量哪一些東西會違反這個水保法哪一些會危害到這些安全我們會要求他恢復嘛這個事情委員不能這樣說就是說我們都沒在處理事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
389.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
410.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
處理不到十分之一啦你的籌設許可也沒有匯值 對不對現在更嚴重的喔 我跟他講真相是什麼真相是什麼來我們看看那個圖第一期已經施工完成了他現在已經是在試營運的狀況欸你台電之前都已經允許他可以發電了欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
414.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
418.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那你今天做了這個許可你認為說這個發電是不應該的就對了違法怎麼可以發電呢而且存在危險性啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
425.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
439.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
如果他沒有違反三波保育法你不可以用這樣來扣這個問題為什麼沒有違法呢 現在是高雄市政府都已經去扒了不少 你們自己都去開罰了 保定有沒有違法你們都下去開罰 高雄市政府都已經扒了我們也有開罰他我們必須要依法依規來處理事情嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
453.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
469.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
阿你現在叫我們怎麼樣 叫我們說這個馬上斷掉他嗎是不是 我們現在也斷了他的這個繼續的做法第一個 他越線去開發嘛 超過那個界線去開發嘛所以我們有處罰他嘛 我們不是沒有處罰他我們也處罰他了 也下了令了 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
476.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
503.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那你在講說我們這個都沒有在處理這樣子對我們的公務同仁非常打假球我剛剛跟你講你處理這個問題講這個打假球這個是非常嚴重的指控啦那威脅就是一直存在你不要解決人民的這個擔心我們當然要解決安全的問題啊但是解決事情也有一個解決方案你的解決方案就是第一期的光電板全部都在那裡還是存在的 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
504.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
525.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
第二次你只做了一小部分的施工許可的費值你做不到十分之一耶民眾現在清楚看到你的危機存在你的一小部分啦你的一小部分可能是整個事情的一大部分我們已經禁止他三分之一不准再繼續做下去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
526.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
549.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
有三分之一嗎 這個有餘地那三分之二 三分之二之前就是就是下雨 暴雨 危機基本是存在嘛那你的三分之二你要留著是吧你承認三分之二要留著你現在跟前面講我沒有講說三分之二要留著那個是你在套這件事情喔報告委員 請你在這個地方質詢的時候不要用話術 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
550.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
576.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
不是畫素 你說還有畫素 你剛才不是清楚有20萬片的光電板 太陽能光電板保證說三分之二留著嗎他現在設置的只有七成而已哪來的三分之二啊對啊 你剛才不是說三分之一七成跟三分之二那是你講的喔七成跟三分之二差多少就是你講的七成他是第一階段 你講的三十這個兆瓦的七成喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
577.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
606.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
整個的 我們允許他的大概只有一半而已人命關天 危機是現在起第一個 我們現在清楚跟民眾講依照經濟部跟高雄市政府打假球目前清清楚楚這是第一期幾乎是沒有處理的第一期違法事實非常的明確第一個 越縣區開發違反水土保持法 他們都開罰了可是他們現在經過這樣之後還把它 光電板還留在那邊山也沒有要恢復 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
608.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
627.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
所以就保持也沒辦法做了危機還是存在的這個就是現在的真相這是最嚴重的問題所以我今天為什麼要問這個問題你要繼續趕快怎麼確保讓民眾我們在努力喔我們在努力你一天裡面要求我全部把它恢復你認為可能嗎所有的事情總是循序漸進的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
628.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
649.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
是不是 你怎麼可以講說可能要100天的這個已經它造成今天的現象兩年了你叫我一天之內把它恢復我沒有辦法變這個魔法你講的這個魔法這個做法我們是做不到的啦我們要講一個更重要的內幕我們已經禁止它繼續再做下去了我們也要馬上的 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
651.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
675.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
在安全有問題的部分趕快來這個緊急的來做一些這個調適不是這樣你今天在這邊講說我們什麼打假球打假球這個字是非常嚴重的我聽你不要講話術啦就是危機確實存在嘛對不對你要幫人民解決問題我們是在幫人民解決問題這是第一個好我就要講今天一個重要的內幕來 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
677.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
705.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
陳其邁都急著要切割了部長還不曉得要切割你還一直在背書這個危機這個開發的業者叫做聰明的家老闆跟林瑞峰這個大家到監察院上面公報上面查都查得到這個把山鏟平把樹砍掉的這個業者聰明的家老闆林瑞峰在110年的11月 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
706.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
731.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
捐了政治獻金給陳其邁 十萬塊捐給蔡奇商兩萬 何欣淳 八萬塊我下面要放大給大家看 陳其邁111年高雄市長選舉的時候林瑞豐 聰明的家 把三產坪的業者捐了十萬塊隔了一個月 他就拿到了開發許可 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
734.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
755.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這個如果到柯文哲或其他案子這就是收賄啊 貪污收賄罪啊陳其邁很聰明的他馬上就急著趕快要切割了所以他趕快想了一部分的這個處分還有一些許可他要停可是部長你現在還不想要切割 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
757.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
778.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
危機垂死存在可能有土石流來居民講的是什麼小林村的妹村可能重演欸人命關掉而且現代進行是你不去處理人家都知道自己要切割了你到現在今天做了一個小部分的廢止危機是存在嘛我來我具體做兩個要求啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
780.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
798.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
你現在不是只有廢止那小部分你現在應該廢止的是什麼整個開發案第一期跟第二期的綽設席可而且要求廠商把這個山坡地要恢復到原狀這個危機才會化除啊民眾是不是要等這個民眾來陳情就是要求這個嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
803.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
827.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
因為它有危機嘛一百應該這樣做嘛結果你一小部分的施工許可你要的是第一期跟第二期的籌算許可整個拿掉包括你說的會存在那些光電板在第一期的當然要拆掉啊恢復原狀啊山還要山坡要恢復啊這是第一個危機才能夠化解要不然的話這個危機就存在第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
828.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
855.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
要針對山坡地你若去做光電或者再生能源開發案你現在要規範這個廠商你若被你撤銷以後他要怎麼去恢復原狀保障人民安全這才是你現在要做的吧經濟保定我們會依法行事第一個我們經濟部是政府的一環我們所有的工作都必須要在依法的這個範圍裡面去做事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
856.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
880.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
剛才委員所指正的這個部分有一部分已經超過這個時效了所以我們要來考慮怎麼樣子才能夠找到一個合法的這個框架之間來進行超過時效 危機存在嘛 對不對大家都有共識嘛 民眾來陳情嘛這已經媒體跟網路上已經炸開了 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
881.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
888.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我們要幫人民解決問題不要讓悲劇產生幫人民解決問題是我們的責任幫人民解決問題是我們的責任這一點你放心我們不會我們存在的價值就是幫人民解決問題事實上不只是我的要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
900.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
924.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
這應該是絕大部分的民眾的要求這個也是附近的居民明確的這個要求避免小林村、媚村的事件重演請盡快完成撤銷這個案子的第一期、第二期的綽設許可第二個 這個三光電板不只要撤掉要趕快恢復原狀樹該種的要種上去 水土保持要做好這樣才能夠避免悲劇產生 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
925.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
932.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
好 王定加油啦 加油啦這個要跟時間賽跑 這個不能偷啦好不好 謝謝好 謝謝主席坐一下 |