| IVOD_ID |
162806 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162806 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
18 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-25T09:13:21+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-25T09:24:17+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:56 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3c0085a4689617f53d7501c5823c247226c7b02a6a65f2f14f8b1d2cf0e0be59578e89e1067bee505ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳昭姿 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:13:21 - 09:24:17 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-25T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、交通部、教育部、衛生福利部、經濟部就「因應歐盟管制超細懸浮微粒(PM0.1)，我國空污管制政策如何精進、提升，保障國人健康安全」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【6月23日、25日及26日三天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝主席 有請次長來 次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
14.261 |
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28.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
市長 部長在5月12號行政院會時有提到移動污染源的污染量已經超過了固定污染源的污染量他提到這個事 那我們延續這個基礎我想跟環境部討論空氣品質監測在眾多種類還有很多種類當中的交通空氣品質監測的問題那有關中央設置的固定的交通空氣品質監測在當初環境部是選擇在交通流量 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
43.541 |
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59.297 |
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向繁忙的路口希望他能夠如實去反映這個污染源對於行人還有用路人的一個暴露狀態來保護提醒這個民眾的健康但是我現在了解中央設置的監測站只有六座那請問次長台灣難道只有這六處是交通繁忙區嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
66.024 |
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83.365 |
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那我再說再加上柯文哲當市長的時候他在台北市設了三站地方政府桃園市台東市也各設一站所以整個台灣目前僅僅只有11個固定交通車站對比台灣的交通狀況其實是很不夠的市長你有掌握這個資訊嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
84.747 |
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好那這樣就是說不但是不夠而且我跟市長這個說明一下這個分佈很不均目前環境部設置的固定交通側站雙北加上桃園有四座高雄有兩座從新竹到台南地區甚至一座都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
103.277 |
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126.62 |
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但是台灣西半部幾乎每個縣市在交通尖峰的時間都會有塞車問題那麼行人加上機車族每天上下班塞在那個車鎮中民眾都會長時間暴露在可能的這個致癌的空氣污染中但是目前卻只有北高受到比較多的關注那其他縣市好像就淪為次等公民了那請問次長你覺得你要承諾做這個改善嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
127.816 |
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153.827 |
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是跟委員報告的確委員所講的數字都對剛剛的提出的這個指教就是我們的全國空氣品質的先車站中央有70%站地方有34站但是如果以專屬的交通車站來講只有11站確實是有不足可是過去的空氣污染管制我們是從工廠慢慢的逐步到現在我們已經把交通的當作是比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
154.127 |
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180.66 |
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既然您今天的報告0.1嘛 所要來源是交通來源那我們就開始要在這邊加強交通是要被注意的請部長看這個圖 看左邊這張圖這是新北市永和的交通空品車站它離地是3公尺 那就在人行道旁邊的另外右邊這張是頂樓的一般車站離地大概12公尺以上我想請問次長哪一個可以真正反映交通族通勤族吸進去的空氣呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
184.181 |
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211.126 |
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是離地3公尺的還是我們都知道排氣的位置跟人體呼吸越接近的地方當然那個就能夠精準的反應好這個是一個共識那我們之前都提到PM2.5是一個長期的毒害但是剛剛你也提到醫生說要偵測包括一氧化碳甚至氮氧化物等是立即的有一些這個呼吸道的感染或心血管的風險那交通車站跟一般車站我現在就暫時這樣分開 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
212.366 |
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228.387 |
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他們的差別就是在離採樣口距離地面遠近來比那比起一般交通站其實更能夠反映民眾他的生活當中他暴露的一個情況對嗎你剛剛也提到這一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
229.648 |
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256.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
他比較能夠測出這個高風險那但是根據空氣品質監測監測站的設置及監測標準準則這條準則這個交通空氣的品質的監測站應該設置在交通流量比較頻繁或是反應可能因為交通的這個高排放所造成的污染的地區所以部長次長您同意這個空氣交通空氣品質監測站很重要嗎您覺得很重要要不要增加要不要增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
258.052 |
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273.806 |
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我們很務實的去檢討那過去的過去是從工業污染嘛現在轉為這個我們也重視到這個交通跟民生的部分所以我們也規劃了我們會在未來包括像中部跟南部都需要增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
275.467 |
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299.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
日本從一開始就有控管2.5但他同時間會公佈什麼公佈一般策戰跟交通策戰的數據但是我國目前只有一般空氣策戰的法源依據因為你剛剛根據我剛剛提到的這個空氣品質監測站的設置及監測準則他有明定的英設像右邊這個圖他有明定英設的戰術的最低數量但是交通策戰的硬體是好像不受重視那個就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
303.519 |
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321.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
次長您同不同意要修正第四條第二項一般空氣品質建設站以外的其他種類應該也把交通測站的設置專注寫在裡面因為目前是寫這幾個字次長你有看到嗎是實際需要設置之這幾例很空泛很主觀隨人解釋你有考慮再做修正嗎把它寫入準則中 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
330.714 |
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360.014 |
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跟國民報告其實是實際需要我們現在就是實際需要的時候所以這個沒有問題那我會每次一直改啦那我們保留這樣的東西其實這樣的一個文字就有這樣的一個機制在尤其我們今天談交通嘛你也覺得說今天我們討論的主題就是來自交通源嘛污染源嘛那你這個部分之前就有一般的那個策展就有數字的規定嘛minimum最少要怎麼放那這個地方要考慮一下好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
360.834 |
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367.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
有問題嗎我們就事實繼續要我們來檢討市長昨天有多位醫師跟環保團體召開記者會要呼籲說PM205應該要加嚴管道0.1剛剛開宗明義也有講上週劉建國交委也跟台灣健康空氣行動聯盟創會理事長葉光鵬醫師也召開記者會他們訴求環境部也應該要加嚴管制 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
384.216 |
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402.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
0.1他沒有舉出許多證據啦剛剛報告稍微提到空氣汙染就會傷害到腦部健康現在證明可能跟成年人的失智也有關聯那當然根據我的醫學背景越細只要越細那無孔不入全身都跑可能進入血液跟組織所以他走到哪裡傷害到哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
403.446 |
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428.919 |
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所以這個是就是非常擔心的事而且這個東西不是戴口罩一般的醫療口罩就能夠處理的所以你剛剛也提到既然PM0.1我們今天的主角是來自交通員的這個管制為主那我想說你也開始做了一些研究嘛跟大學合作我剛剛有才聽到這樣的部分這個也很好但是這個我想請教這些策戰離地面有多遠有多遠 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
430.592 |
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447.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
就是您在合作的單位上他監測的這個0.1他的離地面有多遠就是那個車站就是設在像台大皇宮所那個就是長興街跟基隆路三段那個路口那個就設在直接擺在車站就擺在地面上 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
450 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
471.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
離地面比較近我們剛剛提到你這是交通來源嘛你要撤交通來源的污染源一定這個監測站就是不能夠是像一般的公司嗎是這樣做嗎我想學者應該是不會犯下這個錯那你什麼時候要開始擴大你開始起步了有沒有要擴大你的規劃的進度我們現在是這樣就是說因為歐盟也是明年 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
472.156 |
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486.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
抵著開始要求會員國開始監測我們是台北這邊先這一站然後我們現在是在台中有兩站高雄會設三站就除了剛剛講那個交通站之外另外的這六站 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
487.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
505.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我現在不跟你說很嚴肅的問題2020年台東市政府依法開罰綜合1800萬結果當時的環保署卻禁制撤銷罰單那上星期台北高等法院一審判決表明環境部沒有權利撤銷地方政府的裁罰處分那依照地方制度法只有行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
505.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
517.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
才能夠撤銷變更停止或廢止這事情換句話說當時環保署進行撤銷台中市政府對台電的這個開罰是違法是這個越權是程序不當請問你知道當時是誰做這個決定嗎誰把他撤銷掉跟委員報告要不要處分 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
522.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
540.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
是這個沒有因為這個審判還在進行當中還沒有終結所以不會在這個時候進行處問我們要講的是這一次的法院的裁定並沒有說台中市是合法的喔他只是說我們在程序上那我要跟委員報告如果委員有時間我可以我會說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
542.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
566.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我們要去看那個為什麼台中市是違法的我們有一些論述啦但是因為時間上可能不夠說明這個部分我也把今天把這些文字就放在這個投影片上啦這個是最壞的那個官官相互的示範不是絕對不是中央政府跟地方政府全國各縣市的環保局環保單位都必須要維護全民的環境空氣品質很重要但是要依法行政啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
567.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
570.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
要不要讓我列舉一下沒有依法行政的原因法官是從程序面來判斷這件事情但是沒有對實質進行審判是依法執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
583.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
608.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那台中市民飽受這個中火的這個污染它是污染大戶嘛我們也承認嘛齁那地方政府行使職權為人民主張工作結果你環境部不是支持卻把罰單撤銷掉不是 我們要求地方政府要遵守職權要保障所有事業及國民的所有依法的事情不然我們就亂掉了啊怎麼空瓦就沒有辦法依法去執行啊那個動作就違法程序嘛不 我們必須這是環境部的職責各位報告 這是環境部的職責我們必須要上訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
613.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
618.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
好你要上訴所以換句話說你們沒有認錯你們沒有認錯你們要繼續上訴要耗費這個行政資源護航中國護航中國不是護航誰今天任何一個產業或是任何一個國民在政府不依法行政的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
629.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
656.154 |
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政府就必須要去導正你們沒有權利做事行政院才有權利做這件事跟委員報告現在只是高等行政法院一審而已還沒有到最終市長你的解釋我們大家大概都會很驚訝反正就是說你已經被法院裁決了但是事實上你們覺得你還要繼續上訴但我們跟律師有討論過律師也是做這樣的建議跟委員報告我們環境部不能失職謝謝委員的指教好謝謝主席好謝謝陳委員謝謝市長 |