| IVOD_ID |
162758 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162758 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-23 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
21 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-23T09:28:11+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-23T09:45:30+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:17:19 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b58c4cf52db2e91a7be4c6bc5ef6e08c7f2aef3382ea3fb05c7fa28b96d4b42c304a0333d62eca4d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:28:11 - 09:45:30 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-23T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：邀請法務部部長、法務部矯正署署長、司法院及衛生福利部就「現行獄政與受刑人處遇機制之制度檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝召委 麻煩有請法務部次長 矯正署署長請黃次長 周署長兩位好 次長 接下來的問題啊如果你不熟的話 沒有關係 請署長代答先不用先得到我的許可之前啊 法務部說啊 智慧安全監鎖好萊塢大片啊 將成真 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
34.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
61.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
搞大內宣非常的會我也希望智慧監所能夠真的落實能夠實現總是一個願景嘛但是我們的八德外預監花了納稅人將近29億元29億有一個興建統包的工程案我之前署長應該還記得我已經問過這件事了 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
64.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
82.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
我們本來竣工的日期第一階段2022年3月2號第二階段2022年11月9號現在是2025年啦到今天為止竣工了沒有 請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
84.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
103.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
報告委員現在我們第一階段是進攻第二階段還沒進攻但是我們預定我們希望在年底前可以2022年11月9號要進攻搞到現在2025年沒有進攻我上一次問你的時候你還記不記得你告訴我什麼時候要進攻還記不記得我們在這邊曾經有過的質詢你還記不記得 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
115.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
129.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
忘記了那時候我們是希望說在上半年啦上半年就是六月份的時候來來來來來你那時候跟我講什麼你那時候跟我講說2024年年底要完成我有記錯嗎2024年那因為他有一些經營權的爭議那是廠商的問題嘛提和解關我們什麼事 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
144.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
171.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那是廠商的問題嘛不管廠商是A經營 B經營 C經營 D經營跟政府之間簽的契約你敢得標你就要履約嘛搞到現在喔搞到現在喔我進一步看啊2025年上半年 你去年跟我講年底要完成那部長今年 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
173.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
198.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
提給社交法治委員會的報告說上半年要完成上半年有完成嗎現在應該是已經要下半年了吧報告委員我們就是巴德也盡量努力來完成盡量努力嘛好來我們來看一下你們怎麼樣要努力啦小戰署發函給巴德外議監說齁不要再延不要再延期了啦這是你們發的函嗎是 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
202.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
219.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
什麼時候?7月中要竣工,做得到嗎?現在應該是希望說不要希望啦,做不做得到就給一個乾脆的答案現在要到年底喔?年底完成竣工退縮阿你們矯正署自己都退縮了喔? |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
220.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
240.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
阿你不是發函給巴德外一間7月15號要完成並不是退收現在是第六次他們有提行政案工程會來做和解所謂的仲裁那跟他去不去不跟他有什麼關係因為有一些有涉及到所謂驗收的問題來我們來看我們來看驗收的問題阿花了納稅的29億阿2022年 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
249.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
276.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
就應該要完工了我的法務部現在是搞大內宣很會啊那個媒體怎麼會出這種報導我看了我都覺得很驚訝你要搞大內宣沒有關係啊你要作秀擺拍也沒有關係啊事情要做到嘛事情沒做到還搞大內宣作秀擺拍好萊塢大片納稅人看了會淌血啊29億耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
278.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
293.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
不是29萬欸29億欸29億給你們預算搞成這個樣子喔來 搞成什麼樣子我們接下來要看啊2025年6月2號審計部查核意見法務部有沒有收到有收到了不僅法務部收到啊我掌握的東西連行政院秘書長都收到了查核意見講什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
308.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
313.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
該間分別於112年1到3月辦理出院112年是2023年啊早就過了應該竣工的期間啊驗生不合格項目多達2279項2279項不是2項不是22項是2279項最關鍵的是什麼到今年3月底 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
337.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
361.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
部分驗收日已耗損一年八個月餘還有部分缺失21項初驗缺失9項還有30個缺失沒有完成改善重點是下面根本沒有辦法發揮智慧監獄的功能這是我們審計部說的法務部接到審計部這樣子的一個審計報告做了什麼檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
366.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
373.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
做了什麼究責來請法務部次長還是收到這個文了以後看一看丟到旁邊反正審計部來歸審計部來言者尊尊聽者渺渺 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
378.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
380.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
依照合約精神我們都會督促矯正署來督促依照合約精神 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
407.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
433.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
他得外意見來要求廠商你依照合約精神可以做什麼就是要求他要把這些缺失改善完才可以完成這個驗手造成的延遲造成國家的損失誰要負責這個部分呢因為廠商也有提這個工程會的調解所以我們也在跟他這兩碼子是嘛那是廠商的救濟嘛現在我的問題是站在法務部的立場該做什麼可以做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
433.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
459.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
對我們因為跟他是這個合約關係所以我們也是依照合約經常要求依照合約可以做什麼不要講空的啦現在階段就是還在調解調解如果不成的話未來可能會延誼或是否進行訴訟延誼進行訴訟對啊你要跟他要求什麼你的訴訟標的訴之聲明是什麼就是如果契約不履行的話依照合約可能有違約金可能有違約金市長這個案子你有掌握嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
460.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
484.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我有初步掌握我看你很不熟我為什麼說你很不熟我接下來帶你看你為什麼剛剛講的全部都是空的在同一份審計報告裡面全部都點出來了來我們往下看三道門人臉辨識系統的缺失改善完了沒有這上次喔我去巴德外醫間我自己去拍了照 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
486.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
497.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那個時候你們跟我說要花一點時間改善三道門很重要嘛你防止脫逃三道門不能同時開嘛三道門的缺失現在改善完成沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
498.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
518.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
報告委員他們有送我們這邊但是我們要以比較高標準的平率比較多正常可以正常可以發揮功能可以嗎所以我們現在還沒有給他驗收通過因為我們要換言之這個缺失還沒有改善完對不對整個問題回答就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
520.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
545.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
他有送上來讓我們覺得說要用高頻率穩定的狀況下沒問題我們才會認說通過所以缺失還沒有改善完成對不對是不是現在還沒有核定通過沒有改善完成就沒有改善完成嘛這我去年的質詢內容啊我已經一而再再而三提醒法務部啊我開始追的事情我一定會一路追下去啊29億啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
548.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
553.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我再提醒一次啊 29億啊千事器缺失改善完的嗎這也是我去年問的 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
564.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
581.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
監視器的部分是算弱電部分的部分這個部分我們有要求但是廠商他有進度但是進度不如理想沒關係嘛就繼續拖嘛為什麼廠商敢擺爛為什麼超過合約的期間這麼久 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
586.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
612.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我繼續給你拖嘛反正呢我們的法務部我們的矯正署遇到這樣的問題有缺失啊來改善有缺失啊來改善我繼續拖繼續混今天如果遲延一個月我用這麼嚴厲的態度啊來質問法務部可能是我不夠厚道我再提醒一次啊2022年就要進攻現在是2025年 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
613.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
625.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
你們每一次跟立法院講的提到立法院的報告是一而再 再而三跳票為什麼這個廠商敢這麼皮啊來因為損害賠償以契約價金總額20%為上限超過20啦現在早就超過20啦超過20你能拿我怎麼樣你拿我給我沒皮條啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
645.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
671.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我繼續辭言下去還是百分之二十啊連審計部都看不下去了啊審計部怎麼講 我唸給你聽啊該監 就講得八德外一監明明知道 契約所定 辭言履約罰則 應祭 祭罰上限已喪失實質約束管制的效果卻沒有等於主管機關的職責積極採取適當作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
676.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
702.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這是審計部的意見這個意見看過沒有委員這個你沒有換紅線的部分他有說因為我們考量到是巴德外意見的考量是辦理解約並重新發包有關工程結算及雜標作業時間可能仍需一年以上作業時間這是part 2的問題嗎對不是這個是巴德外意見為什麼沒有這個解約來做但是我們先從一個部分一個部分來嘛審計部說 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
704.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
705.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
你們沒有採取積極 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
708.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
735.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
適當的作為審計部講的有沒有道理他的所謂的積極作為就是要我們解約嘛因為這一個所謂20%上限指的是食鹽的部分嘛如果他最後是工程項目沒有達到沒有完成驗收在那個部分就不是受這個20%上限所以對於審計部對你們的指責法務部不是很滿意就對了我們是認為說有不同的考量好 沒關係我們再看再往下看法務部跟審計部啊有哪些不一樣的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
736.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
748.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
巴德外意見推動企業進駐要不要依照政府採購法辦理要還是不要法務部的意見是什麼需要依照政府採購法 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
750.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
778.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這個委員 我想你調查過這個資料是所以呢 這個巴德外一間是依照這個公有財運所的相關規定是來交由市政府所以要不要適用政府採購法這個法令的體系是不一樣的所以要不要適用政府採購法他走那一邊是不適用政府採購法不適用政府採購法所以政府採購法第99條的規定就在規定BOT嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
781.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
797.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
除其他法律令有規定者適用本法之規定啊這不只BOT對 你講得非常的好我們再往下看 審計部怎麼講該適用政府採購法 沒有適用政府採購法辦理過程違法審計部講的話很重喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
800.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
812.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
他說工程會函釋本案應該是用政府採購法第99條規定辦理過程險欠合法險欠合法就是不合法啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
814.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
837.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
工程會都函釋給你們了結果該監對於前刊函釋未施檢討改善卻自行認定符合政府採購法精神一直沒有為釋法的處理嚴重傷害政府採購的公開透明及公平性審計部的這個意見法務部接不接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
839.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
854.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我想未來我們會盡可能的避免這個方式來做這個案子啊他給你的檢討意見啊說你顯然違法啊告訴你違法還不檢討改進繼續硬凹審計部寫的比較文言文實質的內容就是這樣嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
856.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
882.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我想我也看到這個裡面巴德外一間的主張是說他用所有公用不動產品所以我們應該聽巴德外一間的主張還是聽審計部加上工程會的主張巴德外一間現在是很大是不是審計部講什麼不重要工程會的含釋也不重要巴德外一間愛怎麼搞就怎麼搞是這樣嗎是嗎還是因為巴德外一間合作的對象是誰巴德外一間合作的對象是 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
886.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
912.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
桃園市政府鄭文燦主政的桃園市政府所以法務部不敢處理啊怎麼處理下去當初違法亂搞的就巴德外一間跟鄭文燦亂搞嘛我想這個跟這個沒有關係啦對啊那如果沒有關係的話 主要是適用法規的人的問題 審計部的糾正報告工程會的函式以及名詞我們的法務部啊 違法還不是檢討改進啊現在法務部願意檢討改進了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
916.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
941.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
我想我剛剛已經說明得很清楚了我們會來檢討 省立部會來檢討要不要追究責任看檢討的結果檢討需要多久需要多久請署長顧一下檢討不是講空話啦檢討需要多久 一個月夠不夠我跟委員報告一下剛剛委員您有提到的巴德外間有沒有盡責這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
942.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
959.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
不好意思喔 我跟你講剛剛我唸的每一個字都是審計部的報告審計部的報告說辦理過程顯現合法就是不合法嘛接下來又再講誰未失據與檢討改善這也是審計部講的啊這不是我黃國昌講的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
963.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
976.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
審計部白紙黑字寫成這個樣子剛次長也說要檢討我現在的問題很具體檢討要多久怎麼追究責任需要多久 一個月夠不夠我等你一個月啊 夠不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
978.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
990.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
還是沒有人要檢討所以不敢給時間因為八德該計劃一採購法都是計劃而且已經計劃到四億多了人家審計部說你違法嘛你繳證書說審計部講審計部的嘛現在這個就是問題了嘛現在是什麼繳證書很大審計部說你違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
1003.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
1028.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
你還不承認 還不處理剛市長說要檢討嘛那檢討需要多久 我只剩最後這個問題對啦 我們本來就會需要多久一部的查核意見會做出相應的檢討需要多久這個部分 因為八德外監還有矯正所需要作業期程是 需要多久我們原則上希望一兩個月內來提出好不好一個月好不好兩個月可以嗎兩個月太久了 就一個月好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
1029.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1032.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
因為我剛剛請這個財政署來提啦多久給你財 我代你尊重一個半月啦好 一個半月 好 謝謝 |