| IVOD_ID |
162692 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162692 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-20-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期財政委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
18 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期財政委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-19T09:27:46+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-19T09:40:52+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:06 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/19817250edeb8a73ab0734abd4b6c2ceeab13042bab466e3907d28bbaa3ae02350347cd0a995e7775ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳秉叡 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:27:46 - 09:40:52 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：邀請財政部莊部長翠雲、衛生福利部邱部長泰源、法務部、海洋委員會海巡署就「近三年菸酒管理法對於私菸（含電子菸 加熱菸）查緝成效與菸品健康捐經費分配及運作使用情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【6月18日及19日二天一次會】） |
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莊部長委員好部長現在這個菸的稅跟捐的比例是怎麼樣待會就跟委員報告那當初這個菸奶防治法是112年3月修正的時候你們有經過試算嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
30.471 |
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57.934 |
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這個部分他們有各的等一下沒關係請署長幫忙回答不好意思委員可不可以麻煩是是是燕捐跟冤稅的比例以及112年3月煙害防治法修正的時候你們有沒有估算過這個每一年收到捐燕捐跟冤稅的這個金額是我現在手上 |
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61.758 |
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89.712 |
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煙捐我們以113年度煙捐是264.21億這個不是負稅嘛那煙稅的部分呢煙稅是155.88億所以大概捐是稅的一倍嗯 差不多大多100那如果是這個樣子的話這幾年的陶漏加熱煙的部分漏掉了多少稅 |
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102.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
漏掉了多少捐因為加熱菸現在是還沒有經過衛福部許可所以我們沒有辦法因為這幾年沒有通過使得捐跟稅各少了多少嘛你們的估算 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
104.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
129.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
包括委員 因為這個蠻難估算因為根據衛福委的說法其實它這個是有替代效果簡單講 它如果沒有加熱菸可抽它會抽其他的菸所以 我跟你說啦市面上都在抽加熱菸立法委員你去抓 院會旁邊兩黨 三黨全部都在吸加熱菸啦我親眼所見 我在這邊作證包括民進黨 國民黨跟民眾黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
131.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
154.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
抽菸的立法委員裡面大多數都是吸加熱菸啦所以我就是要問你說你們當初有沒有做稅市的評估嘛因為你如果有評估的時候你就會去知道說這個你們原來估計大概是多少後來收到多少相減就是可以評估大概漏掉多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
156.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
184.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
跟委員報告因為煙稀食量的減少有的人是會認為是因為煙稅跟煙捐多課了所以它影響了消費所以我們因為現在沒辦法去獨立說煙變少是什麼原因這是我們困難的地方但是我們可以看到是說現在對加熱煙的部分我們也是在等如果它許可的我們這個部分一定會去課徵這樣好 那請回座請衛福部的邱部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
187.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
187.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
來 邱部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
194.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
223.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
總部長請回座部長112年3月12號 陰害防治法施行那你當時也是在衛環委員會所以我們透過這個東西是很不容易但是你們後面加了一個要健康風險評估 這我們當然也贊成可是健康風險評估 請問什麼時候開始送件到現在將近兩年半了 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
224.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
240.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
超過九個季了到現在還沒有任何一家通過啊 健康風險評估沒有通過的原因是因為評估得很嚴格等於是實質上雖然立法院通過了但是你們這個評估委員會再把關然後再限縮還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
242.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
259.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
沒有人要送件 還是送件的這些廠商都是阿力不打 包括研究公司都亂七八糟 九個月通不過到底是什麼原因 可不可以告訴我們好 謝謝委員我想我們在NHK日報裡面就是有審查的一個健康風險評估審查辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
261.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
276.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那其實有七家申請六家什麼時候開始申請這個時程等一下請吳署長跟報告一下那我們一定是因為這涉及人民權利跟公眾健康所以我們依照審查辦法循著審查的程序組成審查會 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
278.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
287.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
並持科學實證專業及保護公眾健康最高目標,其實是很謹慎一程序在辦理那實際上的詳細的比較細的狀況,過程請吳司長跟委員報告跟委員報告,第一家送成的是在當年112年的6月底 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
301.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
324.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那到現在兩年了都審不過那因為審查的過程中有時候因為委員的要求看到業者送出來的資料有一些不完整或缺漏那會請業者再重新送件那每一屆業者他再重新補正資料的時候那各家都不一樣你能不能公布那個審查的流程的那些細節啊我現在要問的問題是什麼意思你越慢通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
326.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
351.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
漏掉更多的稅跟捐啦這兩年多來加熱菸因為你們審查結果都一直遲遲不通過使得國庫應該收到的稅以及應該收到的這個菸捐啊到現在都收不到你們現在用抓私菸用罰款其實跟稅跟捐的比例啊還是不成比例你知道嗎每一年國家因為這樣漏掉多少錢啊那 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
353.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
378.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這個審查是這樣子啦我要把它定成無比嚴苛那我立法院當初包括部長在的衛黃委員會包括我們本院的院會為什麼要通過加熱菸經過健康風險評估之後就可以審查就可以通過那你等於是用健康風險評估把這個東西掐死了嘛如果你審查的東西是用這樣的態度那我要問普建 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
379.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
386.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
你們因為這個社會齁大家對這個責任爭議不休你知道嗎甚至有人認為說這個是煙現在的捲煙業者在中間做梗讓加熱煙不能夠合法上市讓捲煙可以繼續佔有它的市場外面各種揣測陰謀論一大堆啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
406.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
423.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我是覺得這個有賴衛福部你要把你們審查的經過細節還有欠缺什麼東西公佈而不是讓人家還有人用政治陰謀論說因為上層反對所以掛一個審查在那邊事實上就是不給你過 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
425.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
444.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
也有這樣子的政治陰謀論也有從經濟角度說因為捲菸的這個業者希望不要通過所以去施力那不通過他就能夠更長久的佔有市場你知道嗎中華民國政府所擁有的菸酒公司投資這個加熱菸的設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
446.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
473.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
早就都投資進去了錢都花了等著在那個合可之後能夠製造販賣你把合法的管道用這樣的方式縮減的話那就會助長非法嘛再來第二個問題是現在已經在吸加熱菸的人那麼多立法委員你去抓嘛你每天都宴會外面去尋就好啦我跟你講一抓一大把 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
474.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
503.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
然後在立法院眼看著這麼多的同仁在違法我是不抽菸的啦看著這麼多同仁在違法然後我們那個審查就是九計啦沒個進度你看第一家兩年啦審一個健康風險評估要兩年那七家申請 七家都不過到現在都不過那個 請財政部再幫忙說明一下菸酒公司送多久啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
508.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
535.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
菸酒公司送件大概已經有超過一年了應該有超過一年以上了超過一年以上到底多久啊實際的時間因為他們你可不可以同意我我跟你講我現在跟你同意你們審查官民監控署要照程序來然後叫你補件你們的菸酒公司補件審查數據是這樣子我問一個問題再過半年不夠菸酒公司董事長下台要不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
539.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
559.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
健康風險評估上限一年多審不完 做不出來啊是因為普見什麼這些資料不齊備那一天九公司鮮有疏失嘛我也沒有很嚴苛 你回去跟他提案講再過半年審不過 他辭職要不要 要不要立這個軍令狀 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
561.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
578.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我想這個部分他也一直都非常努力的對於我們衛福部相關的意見他們也都在調整那我覺得我們所知是113年2月送件的那113年2月送件到現在一年多啊那中間補件過幾次啊 開過幾次啊你跟他講 他越慢我們中華民國就損失更多的錢啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
586.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
615.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
因為第一個 煙酒公司做這個焦熱煙它可以賺錢第二個 合法的管道真的符合了之後這些非法的自然就會減少很多那我們的煙稅 煙捐都可以 都收得到這對社會有很多的好處那再加上它是職責所在煙酒公司董事長職責所在再半年不過 我會請它下台這樣好不好他已經非常努力在做了 是 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
616.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
619.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
非常濃烈跟社會大眾講什麼人一定不會過啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
621.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
649.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
你是講一句我非常努力有衛福部來說明說明 請說明一下跟委員報告 Angel公司在113年2月左右送件那中間經過了審查會以後推了5次的件那最後一次是在今年的4月底退還給財政部在他被退了5次件5次的理由都不一樣嗎還是每一次都找不同的理由你不能夠一次把理由跟他講清楚叫他一次補嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
650.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
670.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我們都很明確的告訴他需要準備哪一些文件聽到沒有 很明確告訴他所以如果再補不來 再通不過這個研究公司的董事長真的沒有什麼好做的啦坐在那個地方讓中華民國每天在損失稅跟捐然後損失你研究公司該賺的錢我講的有沒有道理 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
673.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
687.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
回去想想看那你問我希望你們國民健康署這個審查的過程喔細節給人家公佈對社會招公信可以嗎我們選來以後該公佈的一定會公佈而且一定會讓社會明瞭 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
688.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
708.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
什麼理由 要補什麼件 也讓人家知道嘛專家都會知道你要求的補件有沒有道理不是啊 我說對下派大眾說明我們立法委員不知道啊不然你把各公司的補件的理由通通算入份報告到我們的辦公室來啊算到財政委員會來啊讓我們知道你這個補件到底有沒有道理啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
710.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
733.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
好不好主席我要求他們這個官民監督署審查的過程中要求補正的資料跟開會的次數補正的內容送到財政委員會來給每一位委員一份報告我們會依政府資訊公開法相關的資訊送給財政委員會對啦你就送給本委員會啦好不好可以公開的可以送的我們都一定會送 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
734.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
746.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
所以有一些不能公開不能送的你那些什麼地方什麼原因不能公開不能送你要住民喔讓我們能夠了解喔不然我們還不知道你審查為什麼可以審查九計咧從法律通過到現在九計啊這不是三計不是四計啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
755.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
772.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我們這個非常的注重所以我們一直瞭解到他整個說非常注重所以非常嚴苛所以都通不過所以大概我們依法來盡量來公告相關的資訊部長不要只站在自己的本位啦我為什麼會先問財政部長國家每天在損失錢啊好 謝謝來接下來我們請賴昭偉來 |