| IVOD_ID |
162627 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162627 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-15-26 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第26次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
26 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第26次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-18T11:31:50+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-18T11:46:19+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:29 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5617cf280bc2552a11794199bb9333060c7c4ba622572b97a48dd392130a6736094ecae5687cafe55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
徐欣瑩 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:31:50 - 11:46:19 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-18T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第26次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請內政部部長、行政院消費者保護處處長就「公寓大廈公設點交爭議及其處理與預防作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。二、審查「住宅法」修正草案等38案，詳見議事日程。【進行專題報告及詢答，並宣讀住宅法第(二十一)案至第(三十八)案提案條文，第(三十八)案如經院會復議則不予審查。】【6月18日及19日二天一次會】） |
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謝謝主席 本席請署長吳署長有請吳委員好 |
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署長 這個我們就持續啦剛剛一直在討論這個點焦還有我們這個驗污的那這個點焦的部分我剛剛看您的回答還有看我們這次今天提的報告內政部提的報告這個問題應該幾十年了吧可是到現在您都還沒有具體的然後現在這個問題還一直出現 |
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本席也很感慨,我21年前擔任議員在議員兩任的任內,剛好大家知道竹北從第一棟大樓蓋到現在5000棟,大概有5000棟 |
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那當初的第一棟竹北市現在大家知道竹北市的房價跟台北市有拼當時的第一棟就是跟住戶就跟建商住戶跟建商就是這種公設的爭議到現在20幾年還在訴訟那我那時候當議員的時候我還碰到一個情況 |
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某一個社區出問題他的管委會主委找我然後我們就共同去了解結果原來這位主委他才剛買現在出問題這一棟他之前出問題的就我剛說的第一棟竹北的第一棟然後這兩個建案都同一個建商所以我不知道今天有沒有人提這個有關建商黑名單這個有沒有什麼機制 |
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你看同一個人他在這一戶發現出問題了他可能受不了他乾脆沒有多少民眾像他可以馬上再買第二戶他就再去買結果第二戶也出問題後來我才發現同一個建案他沒有注意到他是看喜歡他就買 |
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現在到現在到現在20幾年後了還是這樣所以我們今天我很感謝朝偉拍這個專案這真的是在台灣只要是這種大樓新建然後這個非常蓬勃的這個區塊這問題很大所以我想您先回答一下這建商黑名單你們有什麼 |
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有什麼樣的機制嗎我不是要對建商怎麼樣而是你今天黑名單你要想辦法跟我們報告因為 |
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200.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
因為我想這個不動產業這一塊那當然他現在很多所謂的黑名單他並不在於對他關鍵是在這一類的話他所謂的保留戶我們之前也都有沒有沒有不一定叫保留戶啊就是建的不好所以一堆問題啊我知道他過去會因為有保留戶的關係掌控了這個管委會 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
201.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
224.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那他也強制做了點交那在點交完以後這一公社陸陸續續出問題所以這一類的話我們現在比較難是因為因為他不是真實的在管委會管理的主導者背後他是主導者但實務上他不是主導者我指的是表示他的建案就是建的 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
224.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
239.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
很有問題啊那個爭議特多還有公社常常出很多的問題或者是才交屋一兩年什麼地磚磁磚然後各種問題或是公社沒有照當初的設計圖的這我們碰太多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
241.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
269.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
所以這為什麼在過程中要有所謂的典交確認那也有所謂的公積金跟保護那等一下我時間已經過很久這是後面我要跟你談我現在說的是就是這樣的建商就很多啊你們要不要弄一些機制比如說他的爭議案怎麼樣怎麼樣的時候那應該要對相關的他應該怎麼樣或者是怎麼樣讓民眾防範民眾那真的很多民眾尤其 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
270.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
299.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
現在全台灣啦我相信接下來的中南部很多新開發區有沒有南科或者是像我知道台南或台中現在建台中一直有啦像這種新開發區很多也是什麼外地的年輕人到那邊工作然後他對那邊也不熟他就去看房子但是呢他常常就買到地雷鼓買到地雷鼓像這怎麼辦好啦我也不能浪費時間我看你這個給你那麼多時間也答不出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
300.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
326.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
你兩週內給我們一個回覆好不好好那接著這個當然這防範你答覆的時候你連這個相關點交的這個防範你一起再來就是剛剛也提到專業的燕屋的制度那我現在有沒有可能有專業的燕屋公司我們政府核發執照或相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
328.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
349.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
感謝委員因為現在坊間的業務公司因為建築法規包含到史照有他應該要檢測點交的公設項目包含管線他都有一些標準但是我們實務上看到現在的專業的業務公司他檢驗的項目其實是超出這一些的我現在的問題是現在沒有坊間並沒有政府認證專業的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
357.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
378.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
因為本來他在相關點驗的過程當中你就是可以委託專業的技師因為技師是政府合法執照的那專業技師他來幫你做檢驗而不是驗屋公司所以為什麼一般來講驗屋公司他會去找有專業證照的技師來成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
380.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
381.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那所以那我就反問無照的厭汙市場你要繼續讓他擴大嗎你有什麼方式防堵嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
388.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
412.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我也說明一下甚至有些我們知道驗污的他搞不好就跟業者他們配合的所以我才會說其實重點是在於驗污的合位驗污的標準那我剛剛也說明了合位驗污標準證你們就要想辦法所以今天不管他是哪一類的他只要有合格的技師合格技師執照那他驗的項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
414.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
442.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
有法規內的你就按照法規的標準去執行那當然沒有問題那現在坊間的比較大現在驗物有沒有基本標準所以建築法規裡面有相關標準但是我跟委員報告現在的狀態是有些是驗超出這些項目的他也在驗那我們是認為說驗這些超出法規的項目當然不代表消費者不認同他消費者有些是認同的他有些項目是認同的 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
443.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
465.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那這一些我們也怕長期是不是會亂了就在市場亂就是說某某業務公司主張了一堆然後大家消費者就要掏錢買單但這些有些是法規以外的也不一定那麼需要所以我們會再來討論你講那麼多我只能說交潮來臨你制度還在沉睡沒有沒有我再說明一下我們中央可不可以有一些積極的作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
466.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
491.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
所以我才說明一下就是說我們會找建言所就坊間現在在談的業務標準我說明一下就是說因為本來是在法規以外也不該歸我們國土署來做這樣的一個處理跟市場上的確有這樣的現象的話我們試著找建言所因為建言所是技術單位大家來討論看哪些項目是可以訂出一些標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
492.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
514.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
訂出一些標準讓他有一個依循而不是任由業務公司去開價去去訂項目那這樣的話可能會讓這市場比較正常一點我想這部分我們會也會找監事來討論那今天這兩點我請你們一定要積極來做你給我回覆的時候也給我期程好不好好不好意思最後我可不可以請部長上來一下部長有部長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
520.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
546.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
部長今天有關點交還有驗屋我們希望內政部積極來進行內政部盡量來主導接著本席想就租屋補貼的部分我剛剛有聽到您說當初蘇院長就是因為我們稅收增加所以把地方的25%就拿到中央來 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
547.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
573.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那現在稅收還是增加嘛所以也不要再把25%再加租地方但是財政收支劃分法有做大幅度的修正對 財政收支劃分法所以在這邊本席也跟你這邊我也來提出我們的見解那因為你們可能跨部會行政院會找你們開會財政收支劃分法我們希望地方政府他了解地方的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
573.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
588.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所以有一些地方需要的經費讓地方政府這邊來提供所以像我們現在在地方上就看到我們中央各部會相關單位都到地方來像財神爺這樣不斷的這邊補助那邊補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
592.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
611.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那其實有一些如果是屬於地方的人民團體地方的需求包含假設像教育還有一些辦活動的那其實地方政府最清楚地方的需求那一個部分你可以給地方所以不要一句話一個大帽子財政收支劃分法 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
611.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
622.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那財政授權劃分法它中央跟地方一個權責大家劃分我也認同是 但是當時在立法院裡面討論的時候並沒有把事權的檢討討論在內事權那事權檢討如果討論在內的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
628.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
642.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那大概就是中央要負責的部分跟地方要負責的部分大概就可以討論清楚那在財政收支劃分法的時候包括到時候的分配比例是怎麼樣的分配法的話我們要按照新的這個財政收支劃分法的範圍來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
643.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
644.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
中央針對財政收支劃分法 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
674.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
692.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這個要給地方多的好像三千多億那你們有共識了嗎哪些錢他現在給了地方以後你中央在對地方的補助的時候你的原則你們應該也是沒有一個具體的原則出來然後想到什麼就每一項都推給地方這樣也不對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
692.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
714.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
報告委員我想不是每一項都推給地方就是我剛剛所說的財政部對外的說法就是說稅收提撥納入中央統籌分配的比例是有多少跟多少但是我們在初估立法院所通過的財政收支劃分法在中央減少了經常性收入是高達3753億 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
717.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
732.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那各部會非法定義務支出的項目需要配合刪減是百分之二十八左右非法定義務不是非法非法定義務支出項目要配合刪減是百分之二十八也就是我剛所說的就是我們在大院裡面討論財政收支劃分法的時候事權的檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
739.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
757.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
並沒有在財政收支劃分法的這個草案裡面解釋的非常清楚那因為內政部的國土署主辦的這個租金補貼是最大項譬如說我們今年為止大概已經有支出153億左右現在重點是你們針對財政收支劃分法新制 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
758.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
783.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
中央也沒有共識但是你就把租屋補貼把它列入這樣也不對啊我們寫的公文裡面就是說請他們要思考放到下一年度預算的時候可能是放入自籌款或者是一定統籌分配款裡面來做思考你可以把全文給那個委員參考我就是聽到你這樣講可是你中央對整個財政收支劃分法你也沒有還沒有一個共識說我這3700多億我到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
786.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
802.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
是用等於哪一些可能我在地方的補助要減少你只是想到租屋補貼你就要地方沒有沒有我想我們沒有那麼的倉促來做決定我剛跟那個委員報告的部分就是這樣子我們在今年年初的時候就有提到這件事情整個行政院有共識嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
804.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
827.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
不是我們在年初的時候就已經提醒各地方政府然後是今年三月的時候行政院要求我們跟地方政府就事權上面尤其是以租金補貼來講的話要跟地方政府有這樣子的一個告知所以我們還是以發文的方式那你有沒有聽懂我的問題我的問題就是你中央你行政院要你們告知但是你這個的依據是什麼應該這麼說也跟委員報告啦為什麼地方政府也會急著過來今天如果說我們在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
832.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
852.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
他們要編明年度的預算所以狀況是說如果我們又拖到了年底才決定如果有的話反而是地方政府會倉促來不及這樣反而會影響整個租屋族的這樣的一個權益我想我們都是基於保障所有租屋族的權益提早去告知地方可以的話先預備 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
853.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
864.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
這一塊還是中央全權負責啊 也可以啊我想到目前並沒有得到這麼大的授權或是在這方面但是還是要告訴地方政府要有一些預先作為啦好 謝謝 |