| IVOD_ID |
162565 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162565 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-23-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
16 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第16次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-18T09:11:34+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-18T09:22:10+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:36 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5617cf280bc2552a229009de0a9d237a435a35cf529d0c6cadf9c1769f7edb4763521e5656016d285ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
洪孟楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:11:34 - 09:22:10 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-18T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男就「推動AI之產業發展政策」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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主席謝謝 麻煩請黃部長請部長好 委員長部長早 部長現在傳出說META美方有可能7月高層會來訪台可能要討論打詐議題是不是有這樣的事情其實我們跟META高層一直有保持密切聯絡那事實上我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
27.725 |
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45.293 |
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都有跟他們在開會那這個七月來這個事情我想大概是如果等到確定以後我們會正式宣布不過剛剛委員也提到就是確實我們最近對META的尤其是在打炸方面的努力我們是有嚴格檢查那我們也開始開罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
47.115 |
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65.433 |
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對 因為傳說媒體報導說傳說擔心詐騙案連續被處罰那因為現在本席從一直我其實還是再一次強調你們自己的打在儀表板或說打詐的這個通報網站上面九成都是Meta不管是臉書私訊或者是IG都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
65.993 |
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88.97 |
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那你們看到了這個九成的一個狀況然後現在內政部也移交了不管是過去有移交多少或是說現在我們還有得到資料說還有23件的廣告資訊揭露不全所以5月29號你們有再召集相關單位來開會嘛那現在看到說META還要陳述意見還要等待回覆還要邀集相關單位討論在是否裁罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
90.331 |
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101.419 |
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會不會覺得都是在慢半拍啊過去到現在已經多久了這個事情真的不是第一天發生打擊詐騙 大家的一個承諾 大家的共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
103.834 |
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詐騙部長對那所以就是說我們一切是有照程序在走就是說包括我們拿到這些案件我們一件一件的去檢視然後邀請檢調單位一起來審核這些資料然後又給Meta七天的所謂的申訴期所以這個都是程序走那走完的時候如果還是有問題我們一定開罰那目前是的確我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
125.057 |
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133.813 |
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如果說對於任何的行業我之前有講過部長你來我辦公室的時候我特別跟你提過就如同消防法規一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
134.838 |
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161.221 |
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一個營業場所要營業消防一定很重要如果你的消防法規沒有符合的話我建議是開一次罰而且是累積開罰開罰到你改善為止我們是這樣沒錯但是對於Meta來講九成都是Meta這邊有詐騙廣告它廣告一年有收多少的收益光Meta廣告一年可以收多少收益這個資料我這邊沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
162.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
190.352 |
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你身為速發部長你沒有辦法了解或是說你沒有辦法聽到或是說掌握一下Meta它一年在台灣有多少廣告部長據媒體報導或是說相關大家去推算以Meta這樣子來看的話一年可能上百億都有可能那結果我們現在到目前為止好 即便不講Meta的廣告我們國人被詐騙多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
192.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
219.284 |
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光5月份知不知道國人被詐騙多少錢87億又創高峰4月76億5月又暴升到87億又增加了14個百分點那換言之對比去年的狀況其實還是持續維持每個月幾十億的詐騙啊那我們現在說好開罰給你們不管是打詐是法打詐無法給你們的權利給你們公權利結果到最後開罰100萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
223.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
239.619 |
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現在看到說Meta害怕連續開罰100萬都賣掉了然後第二件第三件還沒有現在還有23件那我們到底什麼時候會展現我們的公權力如果說他一直持續的放任你說給他7天的申訴期 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
240.9 |
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270.172 |
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民眾有沒有辦法跟詐騙集團講說你給我七天的這個鑑賞期民眾能不能講是說我被騙的錢七個小時可能都被騙光了不要七天啊那個我們那個這個我們說這個所謂這個詐騙詐騙的這個防治條例是有些規範包括就是說比如說上架就是下架時間好那我再請教之前有講到是說只有售廣告的部分那Trade |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
270.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
296.207 |
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也是Meta下面的一個平台那目前說Trace沒有辦法無法可管變成又變詐騙新聞廠那個Trace是最近才開始有廣告的這樣的一個功能他目前還沒有辦法投放廣告他現在是剛剛是那個我們請署長來 簡單說明一下因為上個禮拜講到的時候還講說因為Trace他沒有辦法投放廣告所以說他還不列我們的納管範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
298.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
314.637 |
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來跟委員報告目前ZED有在考慮要上架廣告所以我們要等他考慮上架完廣告我們才能去開發他才能去規範他那如果說他現在以使用者的習性來講每一個平台都有不同的使用者習性 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
315.658 |
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341.016 |
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所以現在上面比較容易的是他有所謂的這個擴散紅利就他的這個擴散率會相對比較廣所以說他自然人他不用下廣告他就有擴散那我不管說擴散與否下廣告與否重點是他上面有沒有詐騙嘛有詐騙但是我們通知他會配合下架目前即使沒有法的時候因為我們跟Meta那邊的管道還是蠻暢通的所以這個部分他目前會配合下架好來再回來部長部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
345.694 |
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356.84 |
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你們過去到現在都一直跟我們講會配合下架配合辦理但是我們一般民眾看到的是什麼就是在那上面廣告詐騙廣告還是層出不窮上來因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
360.902 |
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378.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
他可以持續變形 持續上廣告 持續的刊登訊息所以才會變成是詐騙猖獗嘛如果說源頭可以管理的話你認不認為詐騙相對來講都會減少很多所以我們跟他們高層共同主要是要他們自律是 這也是過去到現在我們都一直強調的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
380.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
407.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
你本來他們就應該有內部內機內控機制本來他們就應該有法律機制本來他們應該就要有審核機制怎麼會讓詐騙集團 詐騙廣告上架之後才是變成是我們的人警察人員 訴發部人員 相關人員去搜尋 看到還要拜託說 欸請你趕快下架有沒有本末倒置啊中華民國政府是Meta下面的單位嗎那個第一個是我們要求實名制啦實名制至少可以讓這種詐騙集團這個減少詐騙的廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
411.55 |
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427.627 |
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我只請教一下啦Meta現在7月有可能傳說高層會來那不管怎麼樣 現在還沒有證實你說如果說有 它會到什麼樣的層級這個目前我們都還沒有確定 是我們邀請的還是他們主動說要來 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
431.154 |
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446.761 |
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是在我們的要求之下Meta它一直有跟我們進行溝通那就如同偉榮剛剛講的事實上在Meta上面的詐騙它的那個生態事實上是三個階層的第一階層就是Meta上面會有一些使用者的帳號這些帳號會去開粉絲頁粉絲頁裡面會有詐騙的廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
451.284 |
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474.145 |
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那因為我們不管是民眾或者是台灣的政府我們都只能看到下面兩層就是詐騙的廣告跟粉絲頁我們看不到他最上層的那個源頭的那個帳號的那個跟這個粉絲頁還有那個詐騙廣告的那個關係所以的確是我們過去打詐常常就是說我們一直在下架我們透過網站衝動查詢網一直把這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
474.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
500.924 |
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看到的詐騙廣告一直下架 但是還是會層出不窮所以我們這次就請那個META他們的高層來我們就是要討論這些議題我們希望META從源頭去把這個事情解決所以我們請META的高層來是好 部長那剛剛你跟我講說不知道 沒證實不是 那個就不確定他還有什麼要告訴我們我們有做 其實剛剛是次長嘛 是不是對次長上一次你也講錯了 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
502.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
510.602 |
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內政部警政署確實有通報嘛可是你跟我講是說原來是那一天恰恰好就那麼巧就我直選那一天那天下午才通報過來沒關係來我回來部長部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
515.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
543.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
過去這些東西都是我們講的我們看不到第二層消費者更看不到2350萬人都是被詐騙的對象我們看不到他的後面的出資者所以說才會要求說Meta你即便你要上架的時候你要收廣告費你就有審核的義務怎麼會廣告費是他們收然後結果他上了一個廣告廣告之後讓全台灣都變成是詐騙的被害者 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
543.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
557.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
然後結果我們的人還要幫忙他去海巡看到了有詐騙嫌疑的再通知他們說請他們下架其實這就本末倒置嘛那你現在已經講了速發布是邀請Meta高層來討論什麼議題討論怎麼討論以及說是不是不能讓他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
564.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
592.706 |
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該開罰要開罰 該處理要處理我們胡蘿蔔跟棒子都要一起使用這才是重點吧開罰我們繼續持續開罰 那沒問題那我們現在要求高層來是只要跟他們講自律的機制就剛剛講最上層那個所謂的這些帳號的就是說那些帳號需要一些更好的管理這是我們會再進一步去要求但就是說這個工作我們持續進行那用開罰來讓Meta配合我們政府的政策 這是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
593.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
606.62 |
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一定會盡力去做本來就是啊我們兩千三百五十萬也都是善良老百姓說實在話政府用法律來框架做最基本的要求大家不要犯法沒有例外國外公司來也一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
607.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
635.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
本席還是再次強調對勢不對人今天九成的廣告都在Meta上面所以他當然應該就是被我們主要的要求的對象我們會持續施壓Meta讓他配合台灣的我們的這個詐騙的這個政策部長我希望能夠相信你的話本席會持續追這個議題我們會要求源頭管理才能夠真真正正讓詐騙數下降這是國人所期待的我們也會繼續努力謝謝 |