| IVOD_ID |
162434 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162434 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-11 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-11T10:42:54+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-11T10:57:07+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:13 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5b5dae1827dbf6c98fbba8955f4e9a7e023e49d939498c5a7ecf2f83f27aab3b00665548fbcbefd25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:42:54 - 10:57:07 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-11T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會（事由：「法院組織法有關司法公開透明修正立法之探討」公聽會） |
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謝謝主席我很高興我們司法法制委員會召委莊委員召開這場公聽會時間還沒開始我現在是要對你講話剛剛莊委員說很高興我來到現場所以你時間要給我多一點嗎 |
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40.063 |
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對每一位來的學者專家都溫柔對待然後你的如果專業意見的提出我們再斟酌好不好好謝謝謝謝莊委員好非常感謝今天所有的學者專家波隆來參加這一場公聘會 |
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那過去這段時間有一些法官協會、檢察官協會啊律師團體發表的聲明其實我都拜讀過了那裡面我想可能充滿了蠻多的誤會我先簡單跟大家講一下這個是什麼照片這個是英國的最高法院在YT上面現在就有啦在場的每一個人現在打開你們的YT頻道 |
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就可以看到,這是英國最高法院他們的法庭直播2017年,斯坦國是會議決議的時候,說要推動法庭直播這個是第四分組的會議結論這是第四分組的會議結論當初贊成的委員15個人我很負責任的把當初贊成15個人的頭像都放在這邊 |
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| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
113.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
這些都是我們社會上面敬重的人士有一個特點那個特點就是裡面法律人的比例是非常低的為什麼法律人的比例是非常低的每一個受過法律專業訓練的人我常常講要學會謙卑 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
115.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
131.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
不是法律專業的傲慢可以凌駕人民的意志那當然裡面也有一些我們敬重的法律學者像李念祖大律師像嚴絕安老師當初有關於隱私權討論的問題其實都納在考慮的範圍當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
136.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
161.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
那這個是當初2017年所作決議的內容司法院到目前為止只有憲法法庭其他的部分毫無下文所謂其他的部分毫無下文包括最高法院的大法庭那事實上當然就不用講了連最高法院都毫無下文那有人說法庭直播會不會造成國家巨大財政的負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
163.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
188.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
剛剛也有學者專家問到這件事情禮拜一司法院的副秘書長跑來台灣民眾黨黨團找我要說明這個法案我欣然同意我坐下來準備跟他好好談法條的構成要件我們的司法院是不是有進一步的高見認為說我們不要給法官這麼大的裁量權我們條文要不要定得剛性一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
190.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
218.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
什麼叫做條定的剛性一點啊 我簡單講目前法院組織法原則公開審理 例外不公開審理請問例外不公開審理的要件是怎麼設定的非常的抽象為什麼非常的抽象我們交給法官在具體的個案當中加以裁量那針對我們所提出來的草案我當天問副秘書長說架設一個法庭這樣子一個波要多少錢一百九十幾萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
219.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
240.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我們的最高法院一年行言之辯論的有多少案子我國的最高法院一年行言之辯論有多少案子我跟大家報告啊不到十件不到十件包括大法庭包括民事訴訟包括刑事訴訟一年不到十件 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
242.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
257.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
設一個法庭的設備他說一百九十幾萬我算兩百萬轉播要錢我也把它加進去司法院回去打一打算盤啊你們當初在推人民參與審判的時候你們光廣告費花多少錢真的在推人民直接參與審判光廣告費花多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
265.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
281.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
一本一本交給民視一年都幾千萬幾千萬在執行的怎麼會沒有錢很有錢啊現在有人在法在國會裡面造謠說要好幾百億我的老天啊這個是造謠還是問政啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
284.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
309.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
台灣民眾黨黨團我們提出的案子法律省的部分我們參佐了司法院當初所提出來的初稿原則公開 例外不公開那為什麼例外不公開就是大家擔心了嘛有涉及到國家安全嘛會造成個人生命身體隱私嘛會妨礙營業秘密嘛這個時候就不要公開啊我把決定的權限交給誰交給法官啊交給法官啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
313.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
321.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
現在好像討論到每一個法律省的案件一定會牽涉到事實一定會牽涉到個人的隱私我必須要老實講在討論問題的時候這不是一個負責任的態度我為什麼這樣講我自己當過被告我也當過證人 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
338.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
361.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我希望法庭能夠公開是什麼在法庭活動當中應該要受到公眾監督的法官跟檢察官是什麼在行使職權的當然不是所有的案子社會矚目的案子才會發生這樣的事情我不管在當被告或在當檢察官的時候我非常驚訝的是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
362.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
384.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
非常驚訝的是說我們刑事訴訟不是改採當事人改良式的當事人進行主義以檢察官在法庭上面的論告提證他必須要負舉證責任證明我有罪但是我自己法庭活動的經驗是什麼我因為集會遊行法的案子被起訴過接受審判過我也去當過證人 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
386.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
394.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我去當證人的時候 我當庭作證說那個極有法的案子的主謀根本不是現在這個被告 主謀是我主謀是我 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
397.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
425.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
結果發生什麼事聽完我的證詞了以後檢察官應該要趕快起來辯駁啊說不對不對證人你虛偽陳述你講的不對結果那法官問說請問檢察官有沒有什麼意見要補充因為辯護人傳我嘛他們主結問檢察官要反對結問嘛結果檢察官站起來我沒有任何問題那他如果沒有任何問題的話那代表你們當初起訴就起訴錯人了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
426.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
454.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
最後進行補充結問的是誰是法官跳下來補充結問這是我當證人的經驗我當被告的經驗一模一樣我當被告的經驗一模一樣那你說會侵害到什麼隱私我老實講我不知道侵害到什麼隱私但我必須要說有沒有案子會涉及到個人的隱私婦女權益的保護兒少的保護當然很重要全部把它排除在外嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
455.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
480.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我沒有寫一個剛性的法條喔說這一定要直播 沒有我們為什麼要權衡公眾的利益為什麼要權衡隱私權的保護為什麼要權衡最後的營業秘密我把權力都交給法官了耶讓法官在個案當中去裁量目前要不要行公開審理有誰裁量 有法官裁量在卷證資料裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
482.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
507.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
當事人公開的部分 就有關於卷證資料要不要限制或是禁止他閱覽特定部分誰裁量 法官裁量 刑事訴訟 民事訴訟全部都是做這樣子的規範我們為什麼做這樣子條文的設計 理由在這裡如果各位先進覺得說相較於目前法院組織法 針對不公開審理我們的要件太抽象 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
508.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
531.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
相對於我們目前卷證不公開我們設定的要件太抽象我們敞開心胸跟各界請教歡迎大家提出具體的修正建議這也是那天司法院到黨團來我希望跟他們交換建議的結果司法院來就是他沒有要跟我討論法條因為從法律審到事實審司法院全面反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
532.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
560.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
司法院全面反對主席站起來 抱歉 我很快把他帶完因為今天我的PPT我要列在會議記錄當中我帶大家看這個是台灣人民對於法庭公開支持度超過七成五支持超過七成五支持大概兩成五反對的我相信裡面很多法律人這我都尊重這我都尊重台灣民眾黨的支持者比例最高96% |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
562.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
579.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
國民黨84%笑得很高興的莊銳雄委員你們民進黨的支持者73%你如果覺得我做了這個民調不對沒有關係歡迎大家貢獻勞力時間費用一起出錢來做民調問問看台灣人民大家想要什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
581.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
600.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
結果我們推這個以後有檢察官團體說什麼說唯一推動法庭直播的就是中華人民共和國我老實講建清檢凱裡面很多檢察官我認識我基本上還蠻尊重他們的法律專業但我沒有想到會LOW到用抹紅的方式來進行公共政策的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
601.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
627.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
用抹紅的方式來進行公共政策的討論這是不負責任的政客才會幹的事情我們的檢改團體怎麼會做這種事呢所以呢他們跟我聯絡了以後我就說怎麼會有這種低級又無恥的討論方式結果建清檢改的檢察官說欸學長你不要介意啊這不是我們講的啊這是媒體自己下標啊一條龍的操作配合得非常好 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
628.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
656.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
原來推動法庭直播也要被抹紅那我們來看一下這個是我剛才大家看過的這是英國最高法院這個是什麼這是英國上訴法院都是法律省啊他們走的比美國還前面走的比美國還前面所以現在英國是什麼英國也跟中華人民共和國看齊嗎英國最高法院 英國上訴法院都要被抹紅嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
658.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
685.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
加州法院法庭直播的規定維吉尼亞州州法法庭直播的規定到今年2025年美國聯邦國會議員繼續推出什麼Sunshine in the courtroom法庭陽光法案大家討論的隱私權的保護他們裡面有沒有規範 有啊那授權法院去做啊你擔心證人臉被認出來那你就把他臉遮蔽啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
686.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
707.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
大家如果有參加過法庭活動都知道我們法庭直播的時候像我每次去公開法庭我看得到證人的臉我看不到我看得到他的後腦勺如果連看他的後腦勺都有疑慮的話那沒有關係啊把他後腦勺給mark起來這些都是司法院在具體在進行操作的時候怎麼樣針對隱私權怎麼樣針對營業秘密做細緻的保護 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
713.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
726.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
最後其實法庭直播在我國有發生過啊2000年蘇建河岸高等法院開庭更審的時候全程轉播他全程轉播在外面還放一個電視牆 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
728.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
750.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
記者進不去這我同意記者進不去因為你不知道記者攝影大哥的鏡頭會take什麼他搞不好一直take那個法官的臉一直take那個檢察官的臉讓那個法官跟檢察官遭受到重大的心理壓力這樣不好所以他就完全統一一個鏡頭就是法院裡面所take的鏡頭怎麼取緝 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
751.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
778.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
讓我們的法院決定訊號搬到外面來連接一台電視機這台電視機大家有沒有看到一群攝影大哥在電視機前面看那個司法院自己直播的四十省這不是法律省喔四十省電視的轉播然後用攝影機在那邊拍那個電視然後出來了中華電視公司在我國有做過四十省的直播出了什麼事發生了什麼事 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
782.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
809.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
誰的隱私被侵害我必須要說在具體個案的操作上更細膩的去保護人民的隱私權不願意不願意出現的這個我們都同意現實上也都可以操作但是在推動這個立法方向我完全沒有辦法贊成司法院現在連法律省都說回去了他不是只有事實省不肯 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
811.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
837.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
連法律省都說回去法律省負擔有很重嗎我再跟大家講一次我國最高法院目前行延遲辯論的案子一年有幾件十件都沒有十件都沒有讓大家聽聽嘛聽聽我們的法官跟辯護人在交換意見的時候到底是在協同發現真實發現法律還是有上對下教訓的方式怒斥 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
839.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
847.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
下面的當事人跟辯護人這個本來就是人民在參與審判的過程當中一個非常重要的民主前途 |