| IVOD_ID |
16236 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16236 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-06 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-36-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
11 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-06T08:30:15+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-06T10:51:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
02:20:45 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fc4b47bc6500708d15ad9f551ce5fa921f083084566cc2bdb41b918672556a670f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-06T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：繼續併案審查
（一）司法院、行政院函請審議「法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。
（二）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「法院組織法第六十六條之五條文及第七十三條附表修正草案」案。
（三）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「法院組織法第六十七條條文及第七十三條附表修正草案」案。
（四）委員劉建國等16人擬具「法院組織法第六十六條之五條文及第七十三條附表修正草案」案。
【第（一）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:15 - 10:51:00 |
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報告委員會出席委員10人已讀法定人數。請主席宣布開會。現在進行報告事項。宣讀上次的會議事錄。 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
2162.369 |
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2178.94 |
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立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議一事錄實現中華民國113年10月30日星期三上午9時至12時16分地點本院紅樓302會議室出席委員黃文國昌等12人列席委員洪文孟凱等11人 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
2179.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
2196.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
列席官員、司法院副秘書長黃玲倫等人、主席中召集委員嘉賓,報告事項、宣讀上次會議事錄決定確定、討論事項、審查司法院函請審議稅務行政事件審理法草案等二案。本次會委員黃國昌等12人提出質詢,委員林四明等二人提出出面質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
2197.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
2209.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
決議一報告及巡查完畢。二）第一案及第二案均另定其繼續審查。三）委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關儘速送交個別委員及本會。通過臨時提案一項。宣讀完畢。那我們因為其他委員還沒到所以我們等一下再確認意思錄那我們現在先介紹應邀列席官員 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
2226.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
2233.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
司法院副秘書長黃玲倫副秘書長法務部政次徐政次 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2240.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2257.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
其餘未介紹的列席代表請參與名單不再逐一介紹並列入公報記錄本次議程討論事項排定繼續併案審查司法院、行政院函請審議法院組織法部分條文修正草案等事案 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2258.514 |
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2268.739 |
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首先就本次會議尚未進行提案說明及報告部分進行說明及報告時間三分鐘那我們請司法院副秘書長黃副秘書長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2273.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2277.256 |
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條文修正草案案 。 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2294.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2309.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
是在法院組織法第一相關的這個條文那麼這一次的重點在十二條三四條跟五十一條以及六十六條之五跟相關的附表那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2311.107 |
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2316.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
條文修正草案案 案件,並擬具《法院組織法部分條文及第七條附表修正草案案 案件,並擬具《法院組織法部分條文及第七條附表修正草案案 案件,並擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2337.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2339.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
條文修正草案案件事項,以應用及約用方式進行,並修訂檢察署原則表。 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2353.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2380.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那麼另外關於委員所提那個66條之五跟七十跟相關的這個附表部分那麼這部分修正的方向與本院跟行政院的提案修正檢察官助理的方向是一致的那麼我們也敬表贊同另外翁曉玲委員等人所提出關於法案組織法六十七條跟七十三條的附表那麼希望將 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2381.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2399.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那個臨床那個地檢署跟分署的關乎人士的臨床心理師修正為心理師使心理系的範圍包括了至上心理師那這部分是涉及到檢查機關的這職權運作那麼我們也是尊重法務部的這意見以上簡單報告請各位委員指教好謝謝那下一位我們麻煩法務部徐政次報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2408.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2431.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
主席各位委員各位女士先生那今天奉邀列席貴委員會來併案審查主要的條文是66條之五以及他七十三條附表修正另外一個是六十七條跟七十三條附表修正草案那就66條之五這是有關於檢察官助理法制化的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2433.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2458.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
本部依照行政院及所屬各機關學校臨時人員禁用及運用要點禁用檢察官助理因為法官助理是依據法院組織法十二條聘用我們的法院依據是沒有的為了使檢察官助理法制化常態化我們已充實檢察機關輔助人力合理分配司法資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2459.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2467.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2481.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2496.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
條法院設置整體輔助人力預算原額比例我們是採1比0.4的比例配置檢察官助理來輔助檢察官提升整體工作效能那我們助理的禁用方式是含聘用跟月用 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2497.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2521.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
條文,保留地方檢察署用人的彈性與尊爵人事成本。檢察官助理具有律師職業資格的話,在禁用期間年資可以記錄律師職業年資。有關於檢察官助理的遴選訓練業務、管考等事項,由本部訂定相關辦法,使其業務職權均有依據。 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2522.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2542.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那有關於六十七條這一個部分那建議這個保護管束人除了社會適應以外還有心理、生理、家庭、人際關係等問題為了防止再犯有轉介心理師提供諮商、輔導及心理治療的必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2544.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2567.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那目前法院組織法六十七條只規定地方檢察署跟檢察分署關乎人是設置臨床心理師沒有納入諮商心理師所以用人機關的需求捉襟見肘為了解決這個問題我們修改相關法律可以涵蓋臨床心理師跟諮商心理師 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2570.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2575.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我們多數委員對於這一方面修正本部競表同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2580.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2602.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
為了強化犯罪偵查效能,避免基層人力過勞,我們已經持續補足檢察官、檢察事務官的缺額。本部對於檢察官、檢察事務官、檢察官助理的人力配置、職長分工及工作負擔,也進行全面檢討評估,也具體規劃重要緣額提考期程。 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2603.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2627.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
以通盤檢討檢查能力以後認為有積極推動檢討官助理法制化的必要希望能夠儘速完成修法。最後本部再次對大院費心修法表達敬佩之意以上報告敬請各位委員先進指教謝謝好謝謝那現在我們麻煩全序部法規司廖專門委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2647.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2666.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
三條附表修正草案。」案。議件是查臨床心理師跟諮商心理師是依照各該類科考試及格分別領有不同職稱的醫師職業證照並且分別辦理心理師法第十三條及十四條所定的業務。而且依照醫事人人事條例以及 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2668.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2695.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
各機關適用醫事人員人事條例職務一覽表的規定,臨床心理師及智商心理師是分別獨立辦理醫事業務的,那沒有合稱心理師這個職務,所以關於地方檢察署及檢察分署關乎人事,如果確實是有需要增置智商心理師的話,建議法院組織法第六十七條的條文可以明確把現行的臨床心理師分別修正為臨床心理師頓號智商心理師, |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2697.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2697.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
以上,謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2719.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2738.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
今天的議程我們討論事項並中二根至第四案。閱經一一三年六月二十四日第十一屆第一會期本會第三次全體委員會議審查報告及詢討完畢決議令定期審查所以於今日繼續審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2740.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2751.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
為了便利審查,請予提出修正動議或附帶決議的委員,請速將書面送交至主席台,列印應發現場進行討論。現在我們進行討論事項,請議事人員宣讀條文,如果有修正動議附帶決議的一併宣讀,宣讀後請進行討論,請宣讀條文。 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2766.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2783.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
法院組織法部分條文修正草案司法院行政院提案第十二條除第二項第三具中依相關法令聘用後面增訂或約用等文字第三項第二具具首的經聘用修正為依前項規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2784.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2811.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
第四項首具中凌聘修正為凌用外其餘未修正。第三十四條除第三項第二具中依相關法令聘用後面增定或約用等文字。第五項第二具具首經聘用修正為依第三項規定外其餘未修正。第五十一條除第三項第二具中依相關法令聘用後面增定或約用等文字。 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2813.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2836.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
第五項手續中經聘用修正為依第三項規定外其餘未修正。第六十六條之五地方檢察署得至檢察官助理依相關法令聘用或約用各種專業人員充任之乘檢察官之命辦理案件程序之審查、法律問題之分析、資料之收集等事務、具律師職業資格者 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2838.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2867.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
一前向規定充任檢察官助理期間紀錄其律師職業年資、檢察官助理之零用、訓練業務、管理及考核等相關事項之辦法,由法務部定之。台灣民眾黨黨團提案第六十六條之五對照司法院、行政院提案,除第一項前段修正為各級檢察屬於必要時得至檢察官助理,依相關法令聘用各種專業人員充任之第二項第二具具首 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2869.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2883.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
一前項規定修正為經聘用第三項手具中零用修正為零聘具末之辦法等文字三除外其餘同司法院行政院提案委員劉建國等提案第六十六條之五同台灣民眾黨黨團提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2889.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2912.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
條文中臨床心理師均修正為心理室外其餘未修正四（法院行政院提案台灣民眾黨黨團提案委員翁曉玲等及委員劉建國等提案修正第七十三條附表均如後赴宣讀完畢好條文已經宣讀完畢現在進行討論請問是否需要進行大體討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2915.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2938.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
大家認為不需要,那不需要的話我們就直接進入逐條審查那我們現在有收到修正動議我有提案所以就我們先進行修正動議的宣讀請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2942.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2968.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
修正動議依法院組織法修正條文修正動議為第六十七條地方檢察署及檢察分署社關護人士至關護人臨床心理師諮商心理師及作例員關護員在二人以上者至主任關護人在六人以上者得分組辦事組長由關護人兼任不令列等 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2970.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2982.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
第二項中段修正為諮商心理師列施三級其餘同線型條文提案人委員吳宗憲等宣讀完畢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
3006.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
3013.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
修正等於一、修正附表、臨床心理師後增列諮商心理師等字宣讀完畢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
3033.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
3045.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
主席,剛主席那個修正動議念完以後,我看是不是也請這個大體,因為這一個條文嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
3047.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
3064.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
條文修正草案案件事項,請他們回答一下會比較快,那進入主條會比較快啦,你像比如說﹖說委員剛那個代行部分已經過了,他們是說都不用,所以現在已經進入到主條。我那個沒有意見,那差不了幾分鐘,我的意思因為你剛本來我沒意見啦,因為又提了一個修正動議嘛,那我的意思就是說,你像比如說, |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
3067.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
3069.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
三條附表修正草案 案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
3089.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
3093.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
條文修正草案案 案件,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文修正草案 案件,其中一人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
3113.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
3113.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
條文修正草案 案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
3137.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
3160.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
條文修正草案案 案件 會不會有這樣的問題?其實之前是心理師嘛對心理師就涵蓋臨床跟諮商之前是只有臨床心理師但是因為後來臨床心理師是來跟我們講說這兩種東西是不一樣的不我要請行政部門說明一下就是說本來叫做心理師心理師本來就涵蓋兩個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
3162.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
3167.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
三條附表修正草案案件事項,其中一項為三項,其中一項為三項,其中一項為三項,其中一項為三項,其中一項為三項,其中一項為三項,其中一項為三項,其中一項為三項,其中一項為三項,其中一項為三項,其中一項為三項, |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3191.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3197.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
條文修正草案案件事項,其中一項是法院組織法部分條文修正草案案件事項,其中一項是法院組織法部分條文修正草案案件事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3217.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3237.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
主席委員關於這個部分的話心理師法他第13條跟第14條是分別就臨床心理師以及諮商心理師的業務分別定列那工作內容是完全不一樣的所以必須領有不同的專業證照才能執行不同的業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3238.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3258.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
四條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3267.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3269.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
條文修正草案案件事項及其中一項事項及其中一項事項及其中一項事項及其中一項 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3283.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3303.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
那我是不是再請教一下你這樣越講我越糊塗了就是說我們心理司法裡面的規定兩者它的業務範圍是不一樣的你臨床心理師他反而是他的業務他的專業應該是更廣的喔比你心理諮商師還要廣喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3304.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3330.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
那現在是變成說原來我們現在的一個設計裡面他的範圍是幾乎我現在是臨床心理師是可以去做心理諮商師的對不對因為他的業務範圍涵蓋他喔所以你們現在又弄一部分出來我的意思是說你們說增加這一個部分規範他的目的最主要是要做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3332.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3357.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
條文修正草案案案件,也要有您需求啊,立法院幫你們忙,沒有很好的事情啊。這個部分的話有關於說資商心理,就是法院組織法裡面要明定是資商心理師或者是臨床心理師,這兩個部分因為是屬於機關業務用人的部分,究竟有沒有這個需要去偵測資商心理師的話,可能要請法務部這邊就用人的需求來做一個說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3366.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3367.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3382.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3410.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
但是就是說他就是臨床他能做的大概就差在臨床跟諮商最大的差別是在於精神病跟腦部心智功能的心理恆見跟心理治療這臨床可以做諮商是不能做的我想他們最大的差別在這裡那剛才委員所垂詢的就是心理師我覺得他只有法令這個法律的名稱是叫心理師可是在竹條裡面這看不出來心理師這三個字 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3411.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3425.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
三條條文及第十四條條文及第十八條條文及第十八條條文及第十八條條文及第十八條條文及第十八條條文及第十八條條文及第十八條條文及第十八條條文及第十八條條文及第十八條條文及第十八條條文及第十八條條文及第十八條條文及第十八條條文及第十八條條文及第十八條條文及第十八條條文及第十八條條文及第十八條條文及第十八條條文及第十八條條文及第十八條條文及第十八條條文及第十八條條文及第十八條條文及第十八條條文及第十八條條文及第十八條條文及第十八條文及第十八條文及第十八條 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3427.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3455.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
那我們三年下來包括我們有約用諮商心理師我們運作的情形發現兩個心理師對我們來講都幫助很大不管是臨床也好諮商也好對我們的功能性幫助我們都非常非常的大但是我們考慮到如果說法律只有臨床心理師的話他就受限了那我們將來在偏遠地區像澎湖、金門、馬祖他原額只有零到一人 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3456.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3472.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
那如果說限定說他是臨床心理師的話因為他們目前國內臨床跟諮商是一比二他們人數比較少那如果說限定是在臨床心理師的話我們將來偏遠地區會找不到心理師你現在總緣額多少?你現在總有多少人?我們那個臨床是14個然後那個諮商是16個 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3482.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3482.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3503.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3528.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
三條附表修正草案案案案的策略,就是說我們希望就是不管是臨床心理師或者是智商心理師我們放給地檢署讓他依照他的需求所以今天把他其實我們一開始認為說把他納為一個統稱的心理師其實法務部的立場也可以接受因為他會變成包含兩個可是後來因為全區部的意見我們也採納我們認為說好那我們就正視他這兩個名稱我們都把他納進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3532.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3555.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
我今天講這一些我是贊成他們的條文的喔我是贊成今天的修正的一個條文的喔可是我的意思是你們凸顯出一個問題我們上次修的時候你反而修出一個臨床心理師啊你現在跟我講說你們是更需要的心理諮商師啊我們電幹不能亂用嗎不是不是那時候還沒有進入所謂的試用這三年來我們運作的情形發現這兩個對我們的幫助都很大好不好是主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3561.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3575.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
其實我是怕你們是不是會壓縮啦如果都是外加的話外加的那就還好你像比如說翁委員或者吳宗憲委員他們可能要的就是說你心理諮商是你人數少啦啊我的想法是假設現在15啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3577.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3585.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
條文修正草案案 案件的總額是15,因為我現在有臨床心理師,心理師當時我欠,我欠後我就外加進來,如果是這樣的我就贊成啦。總額是15,你就分七個出來,你給我另外一套,你七個要找一堆。所以我的意思是外加進來。機關可以自己彈性運用。他們也有總緣合法限制,也不是他們愛幾個就幾個。 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3606.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3606.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
條文修正草案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3625.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3646.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
我首先要謝謝莊委員他肯定我的修法一開始就是將臨床心理師改為心理師因為我當時的想法是說心理師這個概念是依照心理師法第一條的規定講的就是心理師包括包含臨床心理師及諮商心理師 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3647.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3662.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
條文修正草案案件事項,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文及第七條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3662.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3675.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
條文修正草案案件事項,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文修正草案案件事項,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文修正草案案件事項,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文修正草案案件事項,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文修正草案案件事項,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文修正草案案件事項,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文修正草案案件事項,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文修正草案案件事項,其中一人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3690.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3699.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
條文修正草案案件事項,此法院組織法部分條文修正草案案件事項,此法院組織法部分條文修正草案案件事項,此法院組織法部分條 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3713.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3731.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
不是你們現在就有諮商心理師了是嗎跟委員報告因為醫事人員是條例他針對醫事人員的職稱他是依照那個專業法規他的那個領友執照的名稱來逐一羅列所以他現在的心理師他是臨床心理師跟諮商心理師是分裂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3732.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3736.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
三條條文及第七條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3753.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3771.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
因為如果是屬於醫事人員原始條例禁用的人的話他必須對應領證照比方說你叫臨床心理師的你不能領諮商心理師的證照確實啊對這我也同意啊對啊所以可是在我們法院組織法這邊寫心理師是有什麼不對因為因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3773.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3787.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
日後禁用的時候變成說我們會不清楚這個他所禁用的人是屬於哪一類的不是因為你們可以看證照你們禁用的時候不是就要檢附證照了嗎怎麼會不清楚因為這個附表是屬於組織編制那組織編制裡面他就要指涉這個職務的職稱所以變成說主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3796.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3816.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
我們要比較能夠明白說是禁用哪一種的心理師所以就是說假設我們今天是修的是這個組織附表對然後在心理師下面括號臨床心理師及諮商心理師這樣就可以了嗎依照現行臨時動議的提案這樣子的話是可以的 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3817.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3832.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
所以也就是說我們如果說法條還是要維持心理師但是在附表的時候下面就是誇號諮商心理師和臨床心理師你的意思是這樣不是是依照現在修正動議的這個附表是OK的 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3832.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3853.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
修正動議的附表是怎樣?修正動議的附表他是直接名稱就是直接就是臨床心理師頓號諮商心理師所以你的意思就是我們現在就是說修正條文條文本身不動但是呢修後面的附表附表的話就是兩個並列就是諮商心理師和臨床心理師 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3855.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3878.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
是不是我們請大家好醫事人員把那個醫事人員人事條例第二條秀在螢幕上上面寫得很清楚第二條他說本條例所稱醫事人員指醫法領有專門職業證書之醫師中醫師牙醫師啪啪啪啪啪列到後來就變成是臨床心理師頓浩諮商心理師頓浩呼吸治療師頓浩等等等列了20幾種 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3879.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3906.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
所以我是覺得大概聽懂了啦就是因為目前醫事人員人事條例他所給的法定名稱臨床心理師跟諮商心理師都是專有名詞他並沒有統設在一個心理師的名下那是不是這樣就出了好不好有啦那就第二條嘛跟歐委員報告一下剛剛全區部有說目前沒有心理師這個東西對沒有這個東西所以他在法律上面的名詞是臨床心理師以及諮商心理師 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3908.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3919.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
對可是如果是這樣子的話就會變成說你在條文裡面的看起來就變至關乎人心理師諮商心理師臨床心理師及左里員必須要設四個因為你沒有分號分號集壓 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3928.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3931.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
三條附表修正草案案案件 。 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3957.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3959.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
條文本身還是說只要修復表 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3988.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3997.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
三條條文及第七條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
4005.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
4008.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
法院組織法部分條文及第七條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
4024.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
4041.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
我們現在把條文秀出來對我的意思就是我不是糾正你我認為你是口誤因為那個法律就明文了什麼是法律上沒有心理師亂講我講比較籠統那我們現在可以看上面第二條裡面有規範有兩種那剛剛翁委員主要是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
4043.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
4066.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
對因為這是兩個不同的法啦一個是心理師法一個是醫事人員法那所以如果說在本條文裡面我們這裡其實就單純心理師法裡面就涵蓋這兩個不同的心理師但是在附表裡面你可以把它爐裂這個部分的話我認為是可以啊但是如果說是這樣的話你在本條文裡面你就不會出現好像至關護人然後臨床心理師 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
4068.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
4075.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
段浩在諮詐行李時及卓理員。」這個會概念上會認為我這個關乎人事我就要聘逐四個人欸。 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
4081.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
4099.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
全序部主席跟各位委員報告一下那因為主要是因為這個組織法律的規定我們是定有這個法院未來他要去制的職稱跟他如果是議事人員他可能就是司級人員如果是列有關的職稱的人員部分他的職稱必須是要明確的 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
4100.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
4128.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
那未來他們在用人上面的時候才可以依據組織法律的規定去用人所以原則上在我們所有就是所致醫事人員的部分在各機關的組織法規裡面他如果有致醫事人員他的醫事人員職稱的部分他就會照著就醫事職稱的部分去做處理那剛才翁委員的部分心理師剛才我們的意見應該是把心理師取代掉就是有心理師的部分分別有就是臨床心理師跟智障心理師這兩個職稱 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
4133.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
4137.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
條文及第七條的第一項他說的是臨床心理師第二項說的是智商心理師第三條他說 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
4151.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
4167.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
本法所稱心理師就是指這兩種所以它在心理司法裡面就整個的心理司法裡面的心理師包含這兩種但是事實上它是區分成兩種心理師但是醫事人員人事條例是對應到我們各機關公務機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
4169.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4174.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
條文修正草案案案件事項。此外,在法條上清楚地把臨床心理師跟智商心理師寫出來,表示未來這個編制附表裡面的這兩種人都是符合醫事人員人事條例可以任用的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4194.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4212.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
這兩種人他們在執行業務的時候受到什麼作用法的拘束呢?受到心理司法的拘束一個是組織的描述這個人的定位跟性質一個是作用這兩種人在心理司法他怎麼樣去執行他的職務那大概是作用跟組織的不同的規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4213.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4237.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
那我是覺得目前主管機關的說明相關的要說我理解了因為我們在討論的是組織法所以是引用醫事人員人事條例的方式來定名他這兩種職稱啦那未來在組織編制表的附表上面他兩個是在同一個欄位裡面表示這兩種人機關都可以任用大概是這樣那我們要尊重各個專門職業及紀錄人員醫事人員他們職業分類我想這裡予以尊重以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4238.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4241.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
法院組織法部分條文及第七 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4256.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4263.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
我們現有的這個刑法跟刑事訴訟法底下沒有諮商心理師跟跟這種區分就是講心理師所以各位可以看那個刑事訴訟法182條還有刑法更早的一個條文316條他們現行除了一式人員條例以外可能大部分的這個法律而且是很早的法律通通都叫心理師那心理師當然你就下位階你可以去分諮商心理師跟跟那個那個臨床心理師 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4286.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4297.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
如果說所有的法制都必須把信息是區分這兩個的話那麼可能也會聯動到人員條例以外的訴訟法甚至刑法這些都是不是要一併去做檢討這個也請各位委員可以去做斟酌如果說是 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4302.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4328.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
比照刑法及刑事訴訟法他們就是叫心理師那麼在修法的時候因為現在這份條文只有智商心理師那麼如果說是照委員用心理師跟刑訴跟刑法的一致那麼在修法的理由裡面也許可以證明說這邊的心理師當然包含智商心理師跟臨床心理師那麼在將來的人事禁用上面是不是也不會造成困擾然後也可以跟其他訴訟法、法制 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4329.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4350.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
條文修正草案案件一致,那這樣子那是不是還提升一點,然後另外剛才也有講說那是不是說我們在條文裡面並列臨床心理師頓浩諮商心理師這樣子那副表可以用同一個欄位,那這個在可能可能因為如果你前面條文用頓浩並列的時候,恐怕後面那個那一個副表的欄位就要變成兩兩列 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4352.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4364.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
三條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4365.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4391.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
我大概懂意思啦因為這個法律它在不同的年代它在設立的時候它名詞上面像現在是更細分嘛當然我大概了解這個意思啦那看翁委員有沒有什麼要補充的其實我剛剛其實是蠻呼應傑密署長這裡講的就是因為在其他的法條裡面都是講的是心理師其實我們在說法說明裡面講得非常清楚但我看起來就是剛剛只是 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4393.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4414.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
條文修正草案案件純粹針對副表的問題然後循序部在盡用在這個檢視盡用人員資歷上的一個問題這其實問題不大要不然的話就是條文還是保持保留就心理師那你副表你要在心理師在這欄位裡面要拉成兩個兩欄諮商心理師臨床心理師這樣也可以啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4415.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4416.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
這又有一個問題了。這又有一個問題了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4435.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4462.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
那你像比如說你們在監獄裡面啊監獄裡面各個監獄裡面你們有那個那個整個矯正署啊那監獄的一個編制表那你們編制表裡面我現在我剛去點把它點進去看啊都是談臨床心理師反而這個是修法的問題嘛這個是不是你自己的編制表裡面你們自己部部裡面你們去制定就可以了他有個差價 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4463.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4492.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
也就是說這個本來的法律就夠啦你們如果要的話你們在整個編制表裡面你們去附加就好啦甚至於你們那個怎麼訓練師我看他那個來源喔這典獄長就直接可以去聘了咧還不需要你法務部咧就看你做不做的問題啊怎麼搞到說要修法法本來就有那你附表裡面你自己編制表你沒有去修訂你你假設你今天是監獄你典獄長的話你怎麼弄 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4497.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4498.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4513.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4527.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
現在的現行法就臨床心理師所以有諮商心理師正照的是不能夠去關乎人事所以說你原來喔原來看起來很怪你們為什麼當我們當初為什麼你們放的是臨床心理師 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4529.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4556.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
法院組織法部分條文及第七條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4558.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4584.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
因為我們針對他們中間的差異有關於有精神病的時候他比例是比較低的很低所以我們不需要是受限尤其是工作平等權的問題我們不需要去設限說一定要再臨床心理師其實諮商心理師他也可以完成我們需要賦予他的這個一個工作任務所以我們希望說廣納讓地檢署有更彈性的人力的運用的方向所以我們希望把這個納進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4585.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4586.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
條文修正草案案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4603.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4608.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
三條條文修正草案案案件,此法院組織法部分條文修正草案案件,此法院組織法部分條文修正草案案件,此法院組織 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4630.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4634.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
條文修正草案案案件 。我懂你的意思。我們這個修法來增加他們能量是好事。我的意思就是說這個看起來就非常奇怪。 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4657.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4657.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
最需要的你是零 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4668.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4693.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
最需要的是領喔!我們當初怎麼放一個看起來沒有那麼迫切性的那這段期間到底在幹嘛我的意思說如果你把整個編制表裡面你去把它做一個定證不用修法的話你早就可以達到這個目的啦那是不是就是說我們麻煩機關這邊能夠討論出一個可以接受的條文那我們可以先就其他的條文可以繼續先審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4696.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4721.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
不知道各位委員有沒有意見就是我們先讓機關先就六十七條的部分去研擬那我們先從第十二條開始討論起好嗎好沒見好那我們就先繼續進行逐條審查那我們先第十二條第十二條有司法院跟行政院所提出來的提案請問各位委員有無意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4726.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4726.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
條文修正草案 案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4752.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4760.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
和各位委員報告是在第七頁那這個版本是司法院跟行政院的提案那看各位委員有無意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4790.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4794.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
三十九條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4796.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4797.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4822.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4838.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
你們的理由是說管道多元然後運用保有適當的一個彈性這當然增加司法的量能這個可以理解啦不夠卡手嘛但是這很怪的就是說我一直認為說你多了一個約用以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4840.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4858.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
難道就可以增加聘用這兩個的差別吼第一個先等一下先解釋一下這是我的一個疑問啊啊不然你什麼二十幾年來都用聘用你突然就增加了一個約用說不夠彈性啊是不是最主要我們講核心問題啦是不是你留不住人啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4860.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4877.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
條文修正草案案 案件,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文及第七條附表修正草案 案件,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文及第七條附表修正草案 案件,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文及第七條附表修正草案 案件,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文及第七條附表修正草案 案件,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文及第八條附表修正草案 案件,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文及第八條附表修正草案 案件,其中一人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4890.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4891.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
三條附表修正草案案 。 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4916.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4937.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
他認為那個升遷留任職涯生涯的一個發展最主要是沒有受到重視啦你現在用一個聘用進來啊你是臨時在抓人而已啊多增加人手而已啊這裡是不是請司法院這邊先回應一下麻煩副秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4938.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4962.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
主席各位委員謝謝莊委員的這個垂詢那麼這一個條文原來聘用然後增加貨約用那其實是在之前的會期大院的會期的時候那麼因為涉及到那個我們司法院的這個總原額已經到了臨界點那時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4963.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4988.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
那時候是希望說我們總原額法的我們司法人員的這些高限能夠去調整因為我們所有的占原額的都已經幾乎用完只剩下兩百多個人可以用所以現在我們假設說總原額法的這個總原額無法提高那麼我們只能就現有的司法院的這些人員底下 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4988.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
5010.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
條文修正草案案件事項,其中一項是否能夠彈性運用的這些空間,那麼這那目前一個相關到給我們建議就是越用這一種方式是可以不佔總原額,像原來的聘用法住是要佔原額的,那麼那個就臨時人員啊就講啊好聽一點來講越用就臨時人員就好啦但是聘用也是一年一年一用他 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
5011.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
5013.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
三條附表修正草案案 案件,並且擬具《法院組織法部分條文及第七條附表修正草案案 案件,並且擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
5032.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
5057.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
條文約用的這種方式我們才有辦法去支應我們的這些人力需求因為這是相應必須去解決我們司法院的緣額已經到了那個高限幾乎沒有任用佔緣額的空間所以我們要繼續用聘用的方式就會有困難如果說像現在今天的聘用法住那如果說將來有流動有離職的話那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
5060.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
5063.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
條文修正草案案件事項,而非法院組織法部分條文修正草案案件事項。 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
5071.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
5075.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
5092.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
5116.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
三條附表修正草案案 案件,其中其中一項是否有約用的,那麼我們那些緣額,我們更有一些可能更需要的這些的工作,像法官,像法官,像書記官,那麼這些緣額就可以再用在法官書記官,其實所以最主要的這個給我們彈性應用的這個考量是這樣,這也是在上上上個會期很多的單位給我們建議說 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
5118.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
5147.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
條文解決我們司法院的緣額上面的這些困境那麼才會嘗試說用這個禁用的這種多元的方式上你們那個聘用現在一年一聘嘛對不對一年一聘你們還是要考試啊會考核是不是續聘如果說表現不佳當然我們就會就要去考核淘汰你們現在自己招考對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
5148.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
5149.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
5161.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5165.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
條文修正草案案件事項,其中一項是關於法院組織法部分條文修正草案案件。 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5185.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5201.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
那我們的那個司法院的總員呢已經只剩下兩百多個全司法院一萬五千個我們只剩下兩百多個如果說我們禁用聘用的罰數把我們兩百多個用完我們連要禁用法官都不能用那你這你這些人約用進來他們要做些什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5202.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5224.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
基本上他也是做一些輔助性的輔助性比如說幫法協助法官收集一些資料那收集一些一些法律法那個法學著作那麼去提供法官這些參考資料做的跟目前的聘用法官助理應該我們預設是大致相同 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5225.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5234.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
大致上啊你會心智會一樣嗎?那個心智的部分就是目前我們因為還沒有通過這個法我們沒有但是我們的力氣我們預測是希望跟委員報告我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5241.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5265.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
准備就是盡量讓他一樣因為但是將來他們的那個任用的這些法規不一樣因為聘用的法住他是聘用人員的條例那麼約用的話用的是是勞動基準法勞動基準法那我們盡量讓他的勞動條件是能夠拉到相同不然的話確實會像委員講的將來我們的法院裡面的這個管理跟同仁的這個這個工作情緒會會造成 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5266.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5294.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
條文修正草案案的區別,這個部分我們是有準備只是說我們先要有一個法律上面的這些根據我們目前在準備的那些措施我們才能夠啟動所以我們是希望說大院委員給我們這個是將當初相關的人事總處他們建議我們面臨到這種人力上限已經到了整個瓶頸完全無法增加正式的這些人力的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5296.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5319.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
可以選擇的這一種方式其實是因為這個原來限制的這個問題那我們會注意到說這些禁用的人他的權益不會因此而受到打折扣或者是造成不平等的這些情形這些我們都有準備那莊委員還有沒有其他的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5320.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5344.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
我再問一下林委員我想民主黨對彈性的運用這些人員的任用我想基本上我們是同意但是我現在有一個疑問就是說你現在又增加約用來增加這些法官的助理我就有一個疑問你未來如果聘用人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5345.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5369.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
條文修正草案案件事項中的法院組織法部分條文及第七條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文及第八條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5374.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5390.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
一千九百多位,那當然因為聘用的這個法柱每年的流動力不低,如果說我們原額是充足,法定總原額是充足的,不像剛才我們報告的,我們現在全市法案還可以在金融只剩下兩百多個。 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5391.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5391.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
條文修正草案案 案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5422.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5437.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
去選擇的金融約用。」那需不需要我們目前的規劃是因為每一個法院他的人力的困窘情形不一樣所以我們目前是由法院去評估事辦去約用因為約用用的是業務費 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5438.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5442.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
條文修正草案案件事項,其中一項是法院組織法部分條文修正草案案件事項,其中一項是法院組織法部分條文修正草案案件事項,其中一項是法院組織法部分條文修正草案案件事項。 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5456.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5469.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
並沒有這樣子的限制,也就是說我們是由各個法院你現在人力到底的這種情形如果就我們所知目前各個法院如果說他人力是充裕的話他還是會優先用聘用的因為約用的進來確實我們必須先解決他們雙方的權利義務不要讓他們產生太大的落差 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5478.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5505.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
三條附表修正草案案案件,此法院需要去做一些預備的準備動作,所以在法院如果說他的聘用覺得他沒有太大的這些人力上面的困窘,他可能會優先用聘用,但是人力真的已經沒有辦法的所以那個民眾黨你們約用的人員也是沒有這個上線喔?還是各地方法院斟酌他自己法院人力運用的情況自己去做約用? |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5506.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5508.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
三條附表修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5523.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5524.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
三條附表修正草案案 。 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5538.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5554.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
五萬二兩五萬兩兩千多博士五萬七千多那將來我們約用的當然我們希望說能夠讓他一次不然的話立刻做的事情大致一次結果產生不一樣這些我們都有一致的準備我不認為你那個會用超過三年 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5556.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5557.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
三條附表修正草案案案件。 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5580.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5581.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
三條附表修正草案案 案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5603.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5629.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
就是說我們一直在幫你們解決事情你們不能說因為我少人少人補人沒有問題啊可是你要講清楚你這個是有沒有開對要報告因為這一個他要講清楚不是反對的問題啦這不是贊成反對的問題啊所以說聘用為主、約用為輔你不要以後都是約用人員不是很奇怪嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5631.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5636.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
條文修正草案案 案件中的主席陳偉遠,請教一下聽起來約用人員就是實際上就是類似臨時人員了那你雖然薪資調到已經設定到48600這麼高可是如果真的像有一些人他 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5660.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5667.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
條文修正草案案件事項,此法院組織法部分條文修正草案案件事項,此法院組織法部分條文修正草案案件事項,此法院組織法部分條文修正草案案件事項, |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5683.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5702.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
如果涉及到這個保密的這方面的話因為他有可能是法官的助理那這麼重要的職務會不會讓我們在這個保密方面會有所擔憂會不會跟委員報告齁那當然這個保密的這部分將來在 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5704.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5714.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
三條附表修正草案案 案件,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文及第七條附表修正草案 案件,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文及第七條附表修正草案 案件,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文及第七條附表修正草案 案件,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文及第七條附表修正草案 案件,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文及第八條附表修正草案 案件,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文及第八條附表修正草案 案件,其中一人 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5731.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5746.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
三條附表修正草案案 案件,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文及第七條附表修正草案 案件,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文及第七條附表修正草案 案件,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文及第七條附表修正草案 案件,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文及第八條附表修正草案 案件,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文及第八條附表修正草案 案件,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文及第八條附表修正草案 案件,其中一人 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5757.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5778.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
條文修正草案案 案 也還是會離開所以這部分在約用的假設經用約用法住的情形可能跟一樣因為跟委員報告約用這一部分我們雖然是沒有但是法那個法務部的檢察官助理約用檢察官助理已經操作了幾年了那麼我們也是說檢察官助理這幾年的這些操作的這經驗我們可以參考所以我們才才在這一個規定裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5781.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5785.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
條文修正草案案 案件,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文及第七條附表修正草案 案件,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文及第七 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5796.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5799.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
所以我們覺得這個以之前的主管機關建議我們這個人員禁用的這個彈性可以考慮那這個我們才覺得說這個是可以參採那至於說委員們所提醒的部分我們一定會去注意那麼對各法院來講目前階段而言確實還是以聘用的為優先將來將來人員真的已經沒有辦法的話那麼還有這個需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5821.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5834.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
那會去考慮也有只是說在現在法制上面給我們有這種這種多元禁用的這種可能性解決我們將來的這種困境這是我們司法院希望說能夠得到委員支持的好請問各位委員還有沒有其他的意見要提出黃委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5846.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5868.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
其實剛剛委員在提相關的問題的時候我相信副秘書長應該可以完全理解為什麼會提出這樣相關的問題因為對我們來講你在這邊的口頭說明其實不會產生任何法律上面的效力我這樣說應該沒有錯啦你在這裡的任何說明都不會產生法律上面的任何效力 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5869.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5897.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
那這個門一開了以後我們自然而然要去思考這個門開了以後接下來他所會產生的狀況是什麼所以剛剛為什麼會委員問是不是原則上用聘用,例外用約用但你們看起來好像是嘴巴這樣子講你現實上面在條文上你又希望保持你所謂希望有的彈性所以你不希望要做這樣的限制嗎我這樣說有沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5898.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5901.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
法院組織法部分條文及第七條附表修正草案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5914.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5938.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
條文修正草案案的原額是夠的話也對他們來講因為其他不要做法制的改變還是會優先用聘用如果說委員們擔心擔心做通過這個法的時候做成決議要求做成決議要求司法院必須優先用聘用那麼我們也我們也因為跟現狀各法院的反應是一樣的我們也覺得可以只是說將來真的真的沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5939.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5967.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
三條附表修正草案案 案件,其他機關建議我們這種一點點彈性的部分那是可以摻海的但是我們也會遵照委員們的這個指示說那麼優先用拼用因為法院的反反應也是如此做成這樣的附帶決議你們會遵守嗎跟委員報告齁因為我們法院也是各法院反應也是希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5969.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5996.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
三條附表修正草案案 案件,以委員所講這樣的順序。所以我們也是說當然大家希望這樣,只是說將來的緣的真的都沒有辦法的時候,那不得已的時候另外一個。不是啊,我們就法律人就依法論法,不要講一些奇奇怪怪的東西啊。我們做人附帶決議會拘束你們嗎?你們需要遵守嗎?因為說實話,如果我們沒遵守的時候,我們隨時都要跟委員報告,跟大院報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5998.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
6016.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
沒有絕對的拘束力但是委員們這個對對司法院的這個拘束力我相信我們不會啦我們這幾個月相處下來其實我們對你們沒有什麼拘束力了我現在比較只有相信法律的拘束力而已啊這附帶決議根本沒有法的拘束力你剛剛自己講的很清楚啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
6017.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
6044.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
那未來我們到時候針對這些問題進行QA的時候你就跟我講個這個只是附帶決議又沒辦法拘束司法院然後我如果再問你說當初司法院的代表在這邊是講什麼話的你只要說一個時空環境背景已經不太一樣了我想這幾個月我們在詢答的過程的內容當中應該我講的都不是我異想天開在這邊講的好沒有關係我們模仿到第二個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
6046.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
6067.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
當有另外委員在因為當聘用約用開了約用的門了以後你把本來要受到原文法規定聘用的人數去當把那個元額數空出來去用約用的狀況在實際的運作上是完全可以想像那但 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
6069.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
6095.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
這個是我為什麼剛剛問第一個問題最主要的理由我我我光這樣想就知道了聘用會佔總緣額嗎?約用不會嗎?那我為什麼要用聘用?啊我把緣額空下來啊我用約用就好啦這個是我完全聽得懂剛剛莊瑞雄委員在問相關的問題的時候大家腦袋裡面在想的東西是一樣嘛那我覺得你就當作司法院的代表在這邊回答大家的問題就開誠布公 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
6098.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
6100.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
三條附表修正草案案 案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
6131.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
6160.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
我應該沒說錯吧報告吼我們剛才跟郭委員報告的絕對沒有任何虛偽因為現在現在我們各法院對我們這個草案目前的情形他們確實是向委員的這一個要求因為他們聘用的法柱運用非常的久沒有關係那我們就講講具體一點你說實際上面運作就是希望符合剛剛例如像莊瑞雄委員所提出來這樣子的要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6160.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6171.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
那這樣子的要求你覺得在法規範上面要落實在什麼層次的拘束?是要在法律還是要授權你們用最後一項授權你們訂定的辦法裡? |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6173.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6194.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
委員報告我們本來假如通過我們本來就一定辦法因為各個法院也要求我們必須要給他們規範不然的話就優先用聘用因為這樣法院操作的還比較熟悉沒有辦法的時候所以他們已經要求我們要有相關的這些規範如果這法一過我們當然會訂那大大院的對我們的這個要求我們絕對不敢 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6194.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6220.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
條文修正草案案 案件,不敢待乎,所以相關的這些他們的權益將來他們進來他們的權益如何去比照這個聘用的這些法官助理那麼一些的倫理的這些規範其實我們都有覺悟說將來假設要用這個的時候我們必須有這些相關的規範那當然目前那個副理長對不起我打斷一下因為你扯又扯遠了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6221.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6236.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
全體義務是不是一樣,那是另外一回事。我剛剛當成在請教你的只有聘用跟約用兩者之間適用的順序嗎?剛剛你們說你們司法院一定是原則上先聘用,緣和不夠才用約用,這是你嘴巴講的嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6237.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6255.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
那我說這個你在這邊講的話對於未來的執行不會有任何法的拘束力嗎所以我才請教你說那你們覺得要透過什麼樣的方式來規範是我們現在要提修正動議在法律名定還是要依照最後一項授權給你們的辦法你們在辦法裡面定這個是我的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6256.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6277.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
如果說需要我們在我們是建議授權辦因為我們本來就要訂辦法如果大約有這個要求優先聘用然後再約用那我們當然相關的這些授權執法底下我們就會依照這個委員的這個指示去把它明定第二個問題喔是就約用的名額就沒有沒有沒有上限嗎對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6279.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6279.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
條文修正草案案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6298.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6298.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
條文修正草案案 案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6324.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6330.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
約用的部分有預計已經編在明年的預算裡了嗎?有還是沒有? |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6331.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6331.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
條文修正草案 案 。 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6359.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6384.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
目前還在會診中他們有提報一些的什麼時候會會診完成目前有六個法院去示範示範那目前還沒有五個目前有六個法院每個法院先示範五位的這個助理那如果通過以後我們才會請他們正式的去做斟酌但是跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6386.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6412.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
因為現在現階段還是以聘用為優先所以並沒有說正式說提報明年需要多少位但是有六個法院每一個法院五位那個是現在嘛我是說明年啊明年你們各個法院需要的有邊現在有放在預算裡嗎所以我們接下來馬上要審的預算是在裡面是沒有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6414.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6432.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
所以目前沒有的話我們法就算這個會期三度通過你們明年也沒有錢可以約用嗎對不對對目前是用佔那些業務費那用不了幾個人用不了幾個人因為他要吃到別的別的業務所需要這個業務費所以你確定今年編的預算裡面沒有約用的預算嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6434.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6444.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
因為因為組織法也沒有也沒有過這樣我聽完了我就覺得那其實好像也沒有很急著要過嘛過了對你們來講你明年也沒有錢可以約用 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6446.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6473.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
二十六條主委委員報告因為這個是組織法上面給我們有這樣子的這個運用人力的因為這是之前之前因為是啦對啊所以我才以我才分好幾個層次的問題一層一層往下問嘛所以我問到底就是今天其實三讀通過電影門來講好像也沒什麼用啊因為如果你講的是真的啦如果你講的是真的啦那你們明年的預算也沒有編這個錢啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6477.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6493.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
但是現在已經有幾個法院示範了幾位約用法助啊。如果說有一個法律的這個組織法的增加。這是你們自己的業務費嗎?你如果說以後這個法律通過的話,約用人員以後是可以增列約用人員的人事費用? |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6494.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6495.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
條文修正草案案 案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6515.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6519.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
條文修正草案案 案件,並非法院組織法部分條文修正草案案案件,並非法院組織法部分條文修正草案案件,並非法院組織法部分條文修正草案案件,並非法院組織法部分條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6542.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6569.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
如果今天一個法官助理說那我需要一個可以幫我去做小編的然後寫臉書的公關行銷的人員可不可以聘?跟委員報告如果說今天各個法院他因為要禁用這個約用人假設通過了禁用約用人需要增加業務費的話那麼你相對的那個法柱的人事費因為你是相對簡列那個法柱嘛那法柱的相對人事費就會簡列了 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6570.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6570.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6589.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6604.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
條例看起來沒有什麼差別那第二個問題就是說你在約用各種專業人員未來法院有沒有可能他聘的法官助理他並不是真的是法律專業要去幫法官去處理案件的而是聘一個類似什麼公關行銷然後這個寫臉書小編的助理 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6608.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6612.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
二十三條附表修正草案案 案件,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文及第七條附表修正草案 案件,其中一人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6633.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6661.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
那個主席我是不是建議這個條文討論也夠久了不同黨派的委員好像大家都還是有一些疑慮是不是先保留就我們繼續往下走我為了這個事情沒有辦法有一個清楚的答案這樣子要耗多久那個黃委員這樣齁那如果這個保的話12、3、4、5、1都會受都一樣的問題對那我們是這三條保留嗎還是怎麼樣看大家意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6662.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6680.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
可以啊就都保留啊。」因為這三條也都是約用聘用的問題嗎?主席是這樣子啦在場兩位委員三位委員我是認為這樣啦講清楚啦我在想你們可能就是要多增加一個禁用的一個管道 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6681.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6682.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
三條附表修正草案案 案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6700.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6700.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
三條附表修正草案案 案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6722.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6750.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
本來我要再去延伸是希望你們是多有一些配套出來可是我剛又跟你講說比較不符合人性嘛進去以後我三年五年我如果學歷那麼高我要去學法律我每天想我都要聽你檢察官法官的我看人家快哭過了跟你法官檢察官我現在被你們虐待我換我的虐待別人人性嘛不要說虐待了這個措施也不好了我就說他希望他達到另外一個人生再去進階嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6751.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6752.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
三條附表修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6781.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6800.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
這基本上我們都很支持啦就是看複密這邊有沒有辦法解釋清楚一點讓各位委員能夠了解講這個這個如何留住這些的人喔因為目前進來的法律系畢業的一半學畢業的是占絕大多數啦齁那 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6801.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6803.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
三條附表修正草案案 案件,並擬具《法院組織法部分條文》案件,並擬具《法院組織法部分條文》案件,並擬具《法院組織法部分條文》 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6820.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6841.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
所以將來讓這些擬用的人進來之後如何能夠留得住人才讓他的這個權利至少跟跟聘用的這個法助不要有有這個明顯的這個落差那盡量能夠留留住這些的的適當的這些的助理協助法官做做更好的這個審判我們一定一定會會去努力因為現在就是說給這個人力運用這些彈性那 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6844.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6868.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
那讓說將來原額到頂的時候那麼還有一個空間可以去用必要的人力這是我們希望說能夠得委員支持那委員在意的東西我想也是我們在意的我們一定會去做更詳細的這些假設給我們要求我們定授權規範我們會去把它定出來這樣齁我有一個想法齁就跟副秘還有跟各位委員報告就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6870.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6895.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
對雖然說這個附帶權益這可能沒什麼意義啊但是我們也很希望說能夠幫忙就是司法院跟這邊那是不是說我不知道那個黃委員如果說我們直接請他們寫一個那個附帶可以啊沒有啦我基本上是我其實覺得複密喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6896.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6915.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
完全沒有理解我剛剛丟那些問題給你的苦心啊我一直在做球給你結果你一直球往自己臉上殺殺到我後來怪要沒有選擇了我只能建議說是不是條文先保留但我可以理解啦中憲委員也是希望說這不是什麼爭議太大的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6917.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6936.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
主要我們希望我們基層的法官檢察官都有充足的補充那個輔助人力可以用老實說本本就是說在本意上面並不壞只是你們用嘴巴講的那些規範的模式恐怕在我們現在耳朵聽起來都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6939.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6959.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
三條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及第八條條條文及 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6965.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6989.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
就是你們可不可以等一下先擬一個附帶決議然後我們至少給黃委員或給其他委員我們都看一下那大家如果沒有意見那就我想說這個我們就也不要保留我們就趕快讓他通過因為我們一直希望幫大家解決解決這個工作量還有法官、檢察官的工作量過勞的問題所以我們希望說就不要再拖了好 這不是介入個案謝謝主席 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6993.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6993.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
三條條文及第七 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
7035.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
7060.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
我們現在先就審查排序四徵定第六十六條之五提案人有司法院及行政院提案還有台灣民眾黨團提案以及委員劉建國等16人提案請問各位委員有意見提出黃委員簡單說明一下台灣民眾黨黨團的這個提案其實出眾非常的簡單 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
7062.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
7068.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
三條附表修正草案案 案件,其中一人擬具:「法院組織法部分條文及第七條附表修正草案 案件,其中一人擬具 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
7089.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
7108.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
我亦不曉得誰看誰啦兩個機關都希望要有最大的彈性所以你們的版本也是寫聘用或約用所以剛剛主席都做了那樣的才是所以法務部是不是覺得法務部沒有比司法院比較小你們也希望保留這樣的空間是不是可以請法務部說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
7110.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
7116.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
法院組織法部分條文及第七法院組織法部分條文及第七法院組織法部分條文及第七法院組織法部分條文及第七 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
7139.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
7159.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
那去年是一百一百一百個那我們跟我委員先報告一下我們明年的預算後年的預算我們的檢察官助理都編了兩百五十個人那這個都編在業務費裡面我們是要用約用目前也是用約用那我們約用的人員控管都在抬高檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
7160.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
7180.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
條文修正草案案案件事項,其中一項是根據地檢署的規模、它的業務量,所以我們分配名額給它,也就是說這個地檢署今年度你可以約用多少的助理,這個都已經框定了,所以不會有這個約用的檢管助理就無上限沒有這種問題,所以我們大概的情形,那之所以會用 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7181.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7184.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
條文修正草案．司法院及法制委員會第11次全體委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及法制委員會及 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7201.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7222.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
我們目前是四萬六千多那再加班費三千塊大概都將近五萬金額大概就差不多差不多對我們在規劃大概是這樣那希望各位委員能夠支持請問還有沒有其他委員沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7231.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7232.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
那這個黃委員這樣齁黃委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7240.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7266.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
黃委員現在因為那個民眾黨的提案跟司法院提案有一點點不太一樣因為他們是希望是在那個檢方那個檢方是希望在地檢嘛那黃委員的是在各級檢察署沒有剛剛我跟珊珊講過了我們支持他們的提案因為我們基本上一開始的初衷啊我們希望補的是基層真的過勞的啦那最高檢跟高檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7267.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7295.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
目前看起來是沒有過牢的問題啦可能基層的檢察官只有認為是不是有過弦的問題啦所以我們支持法務部這樣的案子沒關係其實二省也過了他們都跟我抱怨每個人都在抱怨都過了高檢也是說自己過了那是不是我們就依據這個司法院、行政院所提的提案的版本通過好嗎各位有沒有不同意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7297.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7309.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
沒有的話我們就依據這個行政院所提的版本通過那我們現在審查第六十七條第六十七條有再修正動議請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7314.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7342.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
修正動議修正本第六十七條對照現行條文第一項臨床心理師後增列或諮商心理師第二項臨床心理師列師三級後增列諮商心理師列師三級第七十三條附表直稱臨床心理師後增列諮商心理師提案人委員吳宗憲、謝龍健、翁曉玲等宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7346.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7368.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
第六十七條有翁曉玲委員等16人提案以及吳宗憲委員等所提的修正動議請問郭委員有沒有意見要提出沒有那如果都沒有的話我們就照 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7371.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7373.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
法院組織法部分條文及第七條修正草案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7397.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7412.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
全序部那個我一個問題請教剛剛翁委員就那個附表的部分他是希望說是那個臨床心理師跟心理智商師他那個貨把他刪掉那不知道全序部有沒有意見沒有好那就沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7415.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7442.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
那我們接下來審查第七十三條附表內容是地方檢察署及其檢查分屬原額表提案人有司法院、行政院提案還有民眾黨團提案以及劉政國的16人提案翁曉玲等16人提案還有吳宗憲委員等所提的修正動議那請問各位委員有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7454.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7460.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
司法院跟民眾黨的那個元額數不一樣中委員在第十四頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7471.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7493.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
有啦我有看到啦我的意思是說因為有這幾個版本嘛是那那如果說你是表達意見不是說針對這幾個沒有對是看大家有無意間要補充沒有就配合那個條文那個附表的部分我們都支持他們提這個條文那附表的原文就按照他們的規劃就好了好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7495.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7495.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
條文修正草案 案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7514.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7539.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
你們的看法呢?再修正的...因為我沒看到再修正的是...就是配合那個臨床心理師...臨床心理師的...沒問題嘛,沒問題就通過啦謝謝,那我們就依據那個司法院、行政院提案以及那個吳宗憲委員所提的再修正東西合併修正通過好,那我們回...請問一下你們那個...那個修正...你們那個...正在你...謝謝...好... |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7541.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7542.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7562.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7562.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
三條附表修正草案案 案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7580.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7581.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
三條附表修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7623.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7625.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
我們先處理另外一個附帶決議請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7627.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7654.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
附帶決議一一心理事法第十三條第十四條臨床心理師與諮商心理師之業務範圍有所差異。關於精神病或腦部心智功能之心理、衡健與心理治療之業務僅臨床心理師方能執行。是各地方檢查署及檢查分署若編制諮商心理師則不得執行上開業務。二（又本次法院組織法第六十七條將原臨床心理師再增列諮商心理師 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7654.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7682.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
系彼立各地方檢察署依需求及地方資源禁用相關人力得因因地制宜保有用人彈性然因臨床心理師與諮商心理師之業務範圍有所差異建請法務部善盡督導職責提案人委員吳宗憲、典屬人委員謝龍介、翁曉玲宣讀完畢請問各位委員有異見那如果沒有意見的話我們就附帶決議就照案通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7688.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7703.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
那我們就稍微等一下那個機關把那個寫好之後給我們來討論謝謝主席我們希望說解完整一點謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7708.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7709.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
條文修正草案案案 。 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
8229.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
8257.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
好那我們就先處理條文完之後就處理附帶券因為大家沒有沒有什麼爭議了好那我們現在先審查排序一的第12條12條有司法院及行政院所提的所提案那請問各位委員有意見好沒有的話就依據提案通過那第34條有司法院及行政院提案請問各位委員有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
8259.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
8285.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
第三四條那若各位沒有意見的話我們就依照行政院及司法院行政院所提案通過接下來審查第五十一條有司法院、行政院提案請問各位委員有無意見好那沒有意見的話我們就依據司法院及行政院提案通過那我們現在來 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
8289.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
8316.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
進行附帶決議那請宣讀附帶決議附帶決議二司法院法務部應分別依法院組織法第十二條第四項第六十六條之五第三項之授權定定應就聘用優先於約用約用法助人數不得超過聘用法助之一定比例並制定相關業務管理保密與考核規定提案人委員莊瑞雄翁曉玲黃國昌宣讀完畢好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
8322.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
8339.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
我剛才仔細看是叫一定比例喔因為我們就是照委員的意思優先都是聘用那他因為現在說一定說三分之一這個會好啦好啦原則上啦不得超過三分之一啦就下個年度要提報啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
8342.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
8364.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
請問各位委員就附帶決議有沒有有意見要提出?有沒有不同意見?沒有的話那我們就這個你們提出來是在這邊你們提出來的還要法務部你們自己寫的所以你們一定要做到這是你們寫的這不是委員寫的所以要麻煩你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
8366.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
8367.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
法院組織法部分條文及第七 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
8396.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
8416.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
已經處理完畢做以下宣告本案審查完畢你據審查報告提請院會公決請問一下各位委員本案是否需要交由黨團協商還需要協商嗎應該不用了本案就不需交由黨團協商院會 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
8423.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
8448.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
院會討論時由吳釗偉委員中線出席說明附帶決議二項一併交提報院會處理條次引述條文部分文字及法制用語授權主席及議事人員整理好那我們這一次議程所列的事項都已經處理完畢那本次會議到此結束現在散會謝謝大家 |