| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/16eb79f0bb3b77dbf5bf31e53d7c13d02cb32797b746b7f9083084566cc2bdb4aa0df7cd4f14e7795ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-11-05T13:30:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院朝野黨團協商（事由：說明：有鑑於國家發展基金（下稱國發基金）近年來所投資之標的逾半嚴重虧損，更有投資之公司以造假財報坑殺投資人、涉及官商勾結，裝設中國製產品於軍事要塞等弊案叢生，爰於院會提案要求成立「國家發展基金不當投資暨管理失職調查委員會」。協商主題：本院台灣民眾黨黨團，為合理監督國發基金使用規劃、確實了解國家產業發展策略與投資評估，以保障納稅人之權益與國家資源，建請院會作成以下決議：「成立『國家發展基金不當投資曁管理失職調查委員會』，要求國家發展委員會及行政院國家發展基金管理會等有關機關就特定議案涉及事項提供相關調查資料，於必要時依立法院職權行使法第五十九條之一舉行聽證會，以落實國會監督，保障納稅人之權益。」是否有當？請公決案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 影片長度 |
3293 |
| 委員發言時間 |
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非常感謝各位黨團的代表出席今天的黨團協商那因為現在我們表定的時間是1點30分開始那時間已到那我先介紹一下我們今天在場黨團代表的委員那首先是我們中國國民黨的鄭正前委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1378.331 |
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1398.837 |
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也非常歡迎鄭天才委員台灣民眾黨黨團的代表張祺凱委員以及我們的麥玉珍麥委員也非常感謝我們民主進步黨黨團的幹部蔡依瑜蔡委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1401.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1421.312 |
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今天也非常感謝我們行政院這邊相關的官員也有列席首先介紹的是國發會的主委劉靜清劉主委以及國家發展基金管理委員會的執行秘書汪廷安汪執行秘書 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1422.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1440.809 |
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那其他還有一些組長跟署長跟副組長還有檢密那我就在這邊一併的表示歡迎不一一介紹時間的關係請見諒那今天我們所召開的黨團協商主要是要處理台灣民眾黨黨團 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1442.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1462.627 |
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為了要合理的監督國發基金使用規劃確實瞭解國家產業發展策略．跟投資的評估保障納稅人的權益與國家的資源那建請院會做成以下的決議成立國家發展基金不當投資暨管理失職調查委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1464.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1480.758 |
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要求國家發展委員會及行政院國家發展基金管理會等有關機關就特定議案涉及事項提供相關調查資料那必要的時候我們也可以依照立法院職權刑事法的規定來舉行聽證會以落實國會監督保障納稅人的權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1485.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1513.639 |
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那這個案子呢經由一百一十三年七月十六號立法院第十一屆第一會期第二十二次院會決議交付黨團協商那由台灣民眾黨黨團負責召集協商那我們首先是不是可以先請提案的黨團代表是不是由台灣民眾黨黨團的代表先跟其他的黨團我們說明一下提案的質據是不是請張啟凱委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1518.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1539.491 |
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大家好我們台灣今天我們要談的是人民的納稅錢到了這個國發基金有沒有被善加利用的我們台灣民眾黨做了統計發現國發基金最近這幾年投資的標的差不多有超過一半是嚴重虧損的 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1542.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1564.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
2017年投資如興2018年投資的聯合再生能源2019年投資的東北光電科技現在國發基金好像變成是一個紓困的基金了有有甚者如興還出現了坑殺投資人聯合再生還出現了不只是官商勾結還有中國產品製造在我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1566.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1590.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
軍事要塞的這個問題所以現在看起來國發基金啊問題一大堆包括我們台灣民眾黨開了好幾次的記者會還有包括寧日攻擊前幾天大家一直在討論說國發基金投資了寧日攻擊這個影片投資了4170萬元到目前為止他的決策方式目前沒有一個好好的交代那我們剛剛 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1592.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1610.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
盧列的這些的案子都發現在國發基金在審查過程裡面今天主委也在這個現場發現很多委員都是請假的然後這個過程裡面看起來黑箱也蠻多的我剛剛提到了光是盧興啊後來又發現他洗錢洗到大陸去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1611.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1635.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
然後聯合再生不只採取了中國製造的逆變電器裝設在蘭陽指揮部跟國防大學東北在108年投資的時候不到兩年他就因為嚴重的虧損導致政見交易所都把他嚇死了所以今天我們鄭重的提出來希望我們可以成立依照 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1637.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1654.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
更請院會依照立法院之前行使法第八章調查權的行使建立院會作成協議成立國家發展基金不當投資暨管理失職調查委員會我們剛剛只是獨立了四個重要的案子還有非常多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1654.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1672.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
第一個是不是在審查的過程裡面有問題這個主委上任之初就特別提醒就是說以前的投資的這個審查的過程可能有些問題要怎麼精進這是一部分那第二剛講的在這個過程裡面虧損為什麼這麼嚴重甚至發生了弊案我們期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1673.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1693.591 |
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朝野能夠有一心把我們這個人民的納稅錢勘緊而且既然是國家發展基金就對國家發展應該是要是有用的我們希望把這個虧損的問題可以解決把裡面的弊案可以查清楚所以建請大家可以強力的來支持這個案子早一點成立我今天不要變成好像又等一下各受各話又要送到表姐好像不見得好 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1693.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1705.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
如果能夠期待的話今天或許大家可以在委員會裡面在這個朝野協商能夠有一個共識我們早一點在院會成立這個國家發展基金不當投資暨管理失職調查委員會謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1707.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1723.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
非常感謝張祺凱委員我補充介紹歡迎我們中國國民黨的張家俊張委員也來出席這一場黨團協商那接下來我們是不是就請那個中國國民黨的代表不曉得哪一位委員來請鄭正前委員代表發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1726.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1751.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
主席、所有的委員包括我們國發會主委劉主委也在然後我們汪執密也在我想說我們今天準備希望能夠成立國發基金不當投資暨管理失職調查委員會我覺得其實有它的必要說實話劉主委上來之後我知道說現在對於整個國發基金的投資有趨嚴的一個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1752.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
1777.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
可是呢其實我們看到監察院在112年1月的時候才對東北岸還有盧興兩家上市公司來導致國發基金的這個廣大股民受損害提出糾正案那其中在這裡頭的時候監察院也直接提出國發會裡面有五大缺失包括了政策評估會議不公開透明沒有留錄音發言記錄第二個國發 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
1780.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
1803.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
會產發處缺乏評估依據及過程第三個決策軌跡及可苛責之內控機制付諸確如第四個禁職調查及企業價值評鑑未確實執行第五個忽視外聘專家學者警示意見所以簡單來說這五個裡面就特別提到說在 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
1804.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
1820.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
審這個案子的時候外聘專家就已經提出了警告可是國發會充耳不聞然後又沒有保存發言的記錄作為事後苛責的一個基礎那我進經濟委員會以來的時候坦白說我有注意到另外一個個案就兆元案 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
1821.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
1843.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
趙遠按之,國發基金從第一次政策評估到會議通過決定投資只花了三個月的時間三個月之後投資了兩億零四百九十六萬進去之後有要求我們要有一席的董事跟一席獨董結果趙遠拿了錢之後什麼都沒有做拖了一年多之後才讓董事進駐同時在進駐的同時還宣布了減資57.97% |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
1849.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
1855.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以等於是拿了國發基金的錢進去之後呢國發基金什麼都還沒有做就已經損失掉了百分之 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
1858.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
1881.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
將近50%左右的一個錢那麼在兩年之後再次減資50.05%就投資國家基金投資了三年之後呢遇到兩次減資就直接虧準了80%然後1.6億的公帑就這樣不見那麼在這裡面的時候我就發現我們在基金委員會當中我們曾經要求拿到一些當時這省政案的一些細部資料那其實也沒有辦法取得 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
1882.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
1905.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
當時只是說有一個體制很好的大公司環球金他也投入了環球金投入跟我們國發基金投入是不是就是一樣的一個一比一的條件就可以直接去做我們不曉得重點是我後來再發現國發會在長期虧損的列管表當中的時候趙遠他竟然已經變成了一個正常戶我們虧損了80%之後然後變成正常戶為什麼變正常戶是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
1909.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
1935.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
環球金把它併購了那這樣子莫名其妙走下來之後我們就損失了這麼多錢然後感覺好像就是也沒有太多的一個苛責的情況那我們希望就是國發會、國發基金對於整個投資的一個部分都能夠有更好的一個performance那當然就是我們知道國發基金他某一個部分有創投的概念在這裡頭可是這過程當中不能說他是創投 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
1936.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
1960.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以風險就沒有辦法去控管我覺得這是不對的所以對於今天我們民眾黨這邊提出希望成立國發基金的不當投資暨管理失職調查委員會那本席這邊是強力的一個支持的以上謝謝好 非常感謝鄭正前委員那接下來我們是不是請我們民主進步黨的黨團的幹部蔡宇宜蔡委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
1962.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
1979.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
好謝謝主席那我們今天在處理這個針對國發基金的這個調查委員會那我們知道立法院來成立調查委員會那從4至729號以及最近的憲判之第9號 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
1981.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2009.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
基本上都講到了說他主要要針對跟立法院行使法律案或預算案的特定議案有重大關聯的事項當然民眾黨提案有他列舉的一個關聯的方向但是主要是說因為宪判是第九號後未來這樣的調查委員會是由院會來成立那是宪判是第九號後 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2010.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2029.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那這大概是一個制度上的一個改變因為過去是由委員會來成立這個調查委員會所以我們的具體建議是希望可以由韓國瑜院長那秘書長先來是不是跟大家溝通未來這樣的調查委員會他所行使 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2029.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2050.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
他所成立的我們未來的成立的形式或者是未來這樣的委員會他如何運作以及他的內部的成員的一些分配這個我想這個可能有需要以院長然後來說院會層級的調查委員會要如何來運作那所以我們具體是說是不是這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2051.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2068.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
是不是有待由我們韓院長再來協商那之後再來討論我們未來立法院所成立的這個調查委員會因為這個是第一個所以我想是不是這部分我們還是先先去如同我剛剛所說的好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2069.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2087.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
好那個所以民主進步黨黨團蔡委員的立場是說目前沒有贊成也沒有反對主要的意思是希望有韓國院長來召集協商是嗎沒有錯因為調查委員會的部分是要他是屬於院會層級的所以他未來他的整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2087.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2108.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
成立的條件是怎樣所以在還沒有這個院長說明這個調查委員會的時候基本上我們是反對今天的這樣要今天就要來協商然後要來成立這樣的調查委員會基本上我主持協商我的立場都跟以前一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2109.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2128.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
雖然對這件事情我自己有非常強烈的意見跟看法但在主席的位置上我把自己強烈的意見跟看法都保留在自己心中我不太適合在主席的位置上面做太強烈的宣告那只不過說跟這個協商有關係的事項還是要跟大家報告目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2129.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2142.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
由台灣民眾黨黨團所成立的這個國發基金的調查委員會的確就是在院會的層級下面的確就是在院會的層級下面我們要設這個調查委員會所以這個是院會層級沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2144.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2160.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那第二個部分今天之所以會召集協商其實也不是我們吃飽太閒沒有事要找事做因為這個就是經由院會的決議交由台灣民眾黨黨團來負責召集協商那既然是院會的決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2162.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2184.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那我就要執行院會的決議所以今天也非常感謝三個黨團的代表都派了代表來出席這個協商那當然三個黨團的代表輪流都發言過了但今天還有其他的委員好像也很關心來參與那我是不是先請教一下其他委員是不是有想要發言表達一些意見的 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2186.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2202.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
大家不要有壓力就想講話就講話但如果不想講話我也都尊重那我們接下來請鄭天才政委員好非常謝謝這個除了提案案由裡面所提的這些案子需要調查之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2205.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2221.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
這個張錫凱委員特別提到的那個電影那個部分因為這個國發基金是根據這個產業發展條例第29條規定最主要的目的就是要加速產業創新加值促進經濟轉型經濟轉型及國家的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2227.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2230.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
好,非常感謝鄭天才委員接下來我們有請張家俊張委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2260.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2284.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
主席、各位委員還有主委那其實這個國發基金我想大家都希望說他是真的對國家發展有幫助的但是我也要提醒一下主委成立這個不當投資暨管理失職調查委員會其實對於主委是一種保護因為你根本不理解說 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2285.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2288.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
在你之下會發生什麼事包括說之前這個盧新廠大賠慘賠的時候國發會的主委龔明星他在被尋的時候他就坦言說他是被騙了你知道嗎所以這件事情成立這個委員會對於主委對於國發會的這些行政人員其實是一個保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2308.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2336.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
尤其過去包括聯合債生賠了30億等等其實非常多的案件讓國發會淪為紓困基金真的是不應該包括審查的時候審議的過程應該要出席的人員不是請假就是代理擺明他們就是知道有問題官商勾結所以他們也在撇清責任主委我建議你 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2337.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2352.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
能夠支持我們成立這個委員會因為這個委員會的成立才能夠讓這個國發基金真正展現它的這個用途謝謝好非常感謝那個張家俊張委員我們接下來有請麥玉正麥委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2356.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2376.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
謝謝主席和各位委員我們希望真的是要成立一個獨立調查委員然後以展開全面的調查工作確保就是我們國發基金的投資運作也符合國家的利益就是未來在發展發生這一些弊案 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2377.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2397.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
也有像我們的張委員說的就是要有調查委員來幫忙我們就是有建議幾個必要性就是獨立性的透明度還有調查委員會將由律法院獨立應做確保調查的過程不受任何的行政單位的干擾還有對外公開調查結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2401.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2406.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
提升透明．增加社會對政府的信任．徹底揭露事實的真相．通過委員會的深入調查．全面透露基金的投入．還有管理．還有退場機制上的 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2423.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2435.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
協視以便誠心責任歸屬協保未來改善的措施第三就是修法與政策的建議調查委員會將根據調查的結果向立法院提出修法建議及政策的建議確保未來國發基金運作更加嚴謹有效以符合就是產業發展還有長遠的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2452.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2473.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
強化基金的運作還有成立調查委員會有助於查找目前基金管理的流程還有我們的制度的問題還有改善基金的管理運作因為都是在賠錢所以希望確保基金的使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2474.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2483.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
和法所以我們希望就是我們的同仁還有我們國發會的基金能承載著就是提升國發競爭力還有我們的經濟的發展還有就是我們如何負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2489.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2508.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
負責這個國發基金的監督還有運作我們合理性我們要成為成立一個調查委員會就是真正為徹底為國家監督的職責還有真相還有就是一些腐爛我們都是要有這個基金可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2510.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2520.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
要監督還有應做的信任所以希望大家去支持我們希望就是這個可以正式的去成立以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2521.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2538.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
好 非常感謝麥委員那因為剛剛那個民進黨黨團的代表蔡瑞瑜蔡委員舉手好像有什麼話想補充來有請蔡委員來我二次發言齁那因為我還是要強調齁因為調查委員會他一定要在呃憲法729號跟憲判之第9號 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2541.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2561.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
事實上它的要件就是說就立委行使職權的那第二是要特定議案有重大關聯且有調查之必要所以我在想因為剛剛包括我們提案人的時候他在他事實上提案裡面是列舉了三個包括盧鑫包括再生能源包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2563.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2576.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
東北那所以如果是叫特定事項那應該就是這三案但是後來又講到凌日攻擊那可能這部分就超出了所謂特定議案他所要調查委會所要調查的範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2578.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2602.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
因為這個調查委員會他也不應該就是未來國發會在審理國發基金的時候變成他的保護傘還是怎樣我覺得這個都不是調查委員會的目的他要成立的目的所以我認為我們真的是有需要韓院長我們再次確認由院的層級成立的調查委員會那他的目的性以及他的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2604.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2623.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
內容就是他的一個規範是如何那否則的話不可能成立一個調查委員會然後他就是掛在那邊然後他可以吼無窮只進媒案都可以來調查因為這是憲法第9號就講得很清楚他的特定議案就是說他的特定性要先把他框定住這樣好不好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2626.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2641.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
那個謝謝蔡議員委員當然每一個委員有每一個委員個別的意見我們都尊重那現在黨團協商我基本上只是要確定各位黨團基本上面所抱持的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2642.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2663.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
那有共識就有共識沒有共識我一向的立場是不希望在黨團協商變成了一個辯論或是互相攻擊的大會對於議事的效率對於委員彼此之間的和諧都不好所以我自己沒有表達太強烈的意見但我們確定各個黨團的立場這樣就好那今天非常感 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2665.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2686.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
我沒有說你有空氣來拜託我的主持會議這麼中立這麼平和這麼理性你應該聽得出來啦那個我們接下來非常今天也感謝我們的國發會的主委有到現場那我們是不是也不要讓您枯坐在這邊給主委是不是希望講幾句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2696.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2697.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
謝謝主席還有各位委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
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謝謝委員還有主席我想表達幾件事第一個我覺得我們用詞一定要精準我們在電視前面國發基金不是全部賠錢剛剛委員說我們都在賠錢去年我們賺了288億我們今年預估也會超過265億那第二個如果投資私利就是有罪的話那巴菲特也有罪 |
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但是請注意投資的公司違法請問你投資人有沒有罪我們現在是認定被投資的公司違法投資人有罪因為我們先認定是不當的投資跟失職所以我比較擔心我們同仁會因為這樣而先認定罪再去找 |
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找出證據這個我不是那麼我是建議直接如果你們真的要查那就是查國發基金而不是說不當投資我不希望我們沒有罪就列了一個罪在上面這對我們同仁不公不公平第二個如果你今天只看投資失利的這幾個案子對我們是不公平的那我希望各位也要獎勵一下我們賺錢的部分對員工是不公平那再來第三個部分我也想講一下就是說 |
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臨日攻擊到底是不是有罪是不是一個錯誤那我先講一下我們是依據文創條例我們我們把錢撥給了文化部文化部進行這樣的文創投資那這是這個程序我們從來沒有沒有沒說清楚過那這個程序的部分我們後來也把那個文化部的資料也送交委員身上了所以資料是還是存在的但是但是請注意喔他沒有被定罪之前不要說我們有罪因為 |
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領略攻擊是一部電影它是一部電影是一個投資那能不能成功我們並不清楚我們尊重文化部的決定那盧鑫聯合再生等等我們認為這些公司有問題盧鑫我們也跟著去告了我們也去告了那我再講一遍就是說我們每一個評選都有評審委員的簽名投票裡面有反對的那 |
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過去的是過半就通過所以一定有這個多數同意少數反對的問題那不能說這個案子沒有人同意那是他過去的遊戲規則那我也跟各位報告我已經把它改成三民之二同意跟四民之三同意兩個不同的階段那我們希望把它整個過程變得更嚴謹 |
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那各位講的是沒有錄音的部分我們現在也錄音了都已經錄音了那每一個投票都有親自的簽名都有親自的簽名那我只是在表達第一個我們先建議沒有明確的政績我們先不要汙名這個團隊這個對大家不好第二個我們的確賺錢288億扣除台積電還賺了90多億非台積電的部分還賺了90多億那再來我們過去的管理我們認為這個公司這個這個獲利不好 |
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然後我們就認為他不好但是其實不是的投資的時候還是要看被投資的股價舉個例子我們投資藥華藥他現在還沒賺錢但是我們已經賺了45倍股價600多那這些東西我想說我們可能要用比較正確的觀念來看他會比較好一點這是我想表達的 |
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謝謝主委的發言那當然國發會有國發會的立場我也尊重國發會的立場所以也給主委發言的空間那當然裡面你所講的很多內容其他委員未必有跟你一致的看法那只不過說可能說要有一些正確的理解或正確的觀念我想在場每一位委員 |
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大家都有正確的理解也有正確的觀念只是看的角度不太一樣我也不會說主委你要有正確的理解或正確的觀念這樣子恐怕也對主委不是很尊敬那因為剛剛張祺凱委員又舉手那我本來就想要把他結束掉了但因為剛剛蔡議員委員我有給他第二輪發言所以這樣馬上不給張委員第二輪發言的機會對張委員不公平那是不是請張委員就盡量剪短 |
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主委不要不要太擔心啊你的努力我沒有看到只是我們要提醒你的上一任有說他被騙的我們希望你不要被騙我們是保護你啦那你剛提的不是國發基金都是不當的投資就是我們是你剛有賺錢的有正確的我們當然是肯定啊先是針對為什麼陳一正委員會是針對有不當投資的那一塊或者有失職的那一塊去做調查而已不是全部全部說國發基金投資的都都是不對的好不好 |
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阿第二剛剛在講這個凌日攻擊這個事情這個事實上那天我看最近很多朝野立委都在提醒你就是他是一個兩岸戰爭騙 |
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那國發基金本來就是為了國家發展啊你這個補助那麼多錢給他然後拍出來一個兩岸戰爭的對外資來投資真的好嗎那你前面把它丟給文化部這就是我們要調查的啦讓你有充分的講法然後讓民眾知道說為什麼你要去做這個投資可是目前看起來很多人沒有這個等一下沒關係很多案子啦那我提一下我們是講的是一個原則就是說為什麼要成立這個委員會那個毅我先停一下我先不好意思 |
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我現在要實施主席的職權就拿到麥克風的請講話沒有拿到麥克風的請仔細聆聽謝謝大家那個張啟凱委員請繼續只是希望說看緊人民的這個納稅錢第二個國發基金真的要發揮它正當跟正常 |
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而且確實是幫人民有幫助的國家發展所以至少有四個點我覺得是要強化為什麼今天要成立這個委員會第一個就如果有一部分是缺乏省慎的投資評估的這個機制那這個委員會就應該去把它查清楚第二個在審議過程裡面有沒有不透明例如說剛剛講的為什麼那麼多人都在請假或者老是在代理 |
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他在逃避責任嗎?那第三個有沒有監督國力或者應變不足的地方?像剛剛講的為什麼丟下去的時候之前不曉得他這個公司已經有幾兩年就虧了一兩億然後就下市了然後還有這個有沒有秘密結社的問題有沒有牽扯不明因為在調查像我們剛剛講這三個案子裡面很多啊都牽扯到這個府院高層關係是密切的 |
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而且後來很多虧損是很嚴重的我覺得就是說我們可以肯定就是說有些投資是正常正確的我們可以肯定可是相對如果有不當的我們希望把它查清楚好不好謝謝 |
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好,非常感謝各位黨團的代表那從大家發言的結果可以很清楚的看得出來我們今天的協商沒有辦法達成共識沒有辦法達成共識所以我們的協商會議就結束那接下來我們就按照立法院相關的議事規則來加以處理謝謝,散會 |
| IVOD_ID |
16229 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16229 |
| 日期 |
2024-11-05 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
黨團協商-2024110142 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
黨團協商 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院朝野黨團協商 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-11-05T13:08:07+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-11-05T14:03:00+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |