| IVOD_ID |
162270 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162270 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-05 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-23-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-05T09:56:17+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-05T10:08:37+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:20 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3f41131fcd5ae564a660d047321fdadacd8722aad0b92e7fe7f061fc5ac7c7dc42e813f5a017db975ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
魯明哲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:56:17 - 10:08:37 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-05T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查一、委員徐欣瑩等18人、二、委員陳俊宇等20人分別擬具「技師法第十一條條文修正草案」及三、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等19人擬具「技師法第十一條及第四十二條條文修正草案」案。
【本日會議僅進行詢答】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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謝謝主席,有請我們工程會陳主委陳主委陳主委早,首先請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
13.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
37.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
這其實三令五申啦尤其在你採購法裡面就規定我們這個不管是公家的一個採購尤其這樣的機敏的一些產品根本不能用中國大陸的一些相關的一些產品但是事實上三不五時就聽到而且有時候弄很久才搞清楚那我覺得這算最嚴重的所以我舉這個例子就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
37.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
59.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
同樣的一個監視系統放在比如說你放在家裡面監管幼稚園看孩童的安全你也可以講在風景區看看我們人流的進出我覺得那個都不是最嚴重就直接裝到軍方下面聯合報這邊寫在軍方954部這個也是前一陣子的才出來的一個新聞那我也說真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
60.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
70.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
有些東西不知道裝到那個營區裝到一些居民的一些單位不知道已經好一陣子了可是我在想這到底出了什麼樣一些問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
72.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
99.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
然後再來譬如說像薑德的一個企業未來在採購法裡面會怎麼處理你先講第二個好不好那這個事情已經發生了那我們也看到了這家公司呢從109年總共標公共工程64個標案這是我們在工程會的一個網站查到的公共工程我不知道你們查的如何啦那我覺得在軍方這種最嚴重的一個樣態 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
101.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
125.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
罪重的樣態發生了現在還未來現在還在還是繼續可以招標嗎是什麼情況說明一下跟委員說明委員好我們統計的是還包括他的子公司所以我們這邊統計出來的這10年大概總共有71件那韓國的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
130.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
152.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
這個採購的機關大概有30幾個機關那目前我們是請通行請所有的機關全面去徹查那這個因為他這個要不要停權要不要沒收押標金要不要這個取消他的得標資格這都必須有廠商有機關他來決定那我們會給他一些指導的原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
153.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
158.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那因為他有一些是屬於比較是隱匿性的那我們也會請他可能必要的時候要拆開來檢驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
160.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
183.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
因為我現在看到很多的案子因為我今天沒有提包括中科院因為它行政法人不見得跟你採購法有最直接的相關可是更機敏的採購法管不到所以現在很多奇奇怪怪的事情持續的發生而且同樣的人或同樣的一個集團同樣的模式不斷在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
184.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
204.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
所以這個部分對於我們公共城市民文規定後面又發現我們原本規定不行的樣態持續的不斷的發生啦是大剌剌的等於無所謂的這種大量的在那邊弄那我就覺得這個的部分如果你沒有立竿見影啊他可能在這一兩年沒事嘛繼續招標 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
205.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
234.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
所以這個部分我是希望能夠要快好不好 由於軍方這件事應該相關的證據力夠那如果這樣子說真的就是都沒有什麼事會有一個學習效應學習效應 沒問題啊 怕什麼先弄進來再說我覺得這個你們去思考那我必須要提醒啊現在看到很多一些問題啊我是覺得驗收者的能力在目前這些電子產品 高科技產品 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
236.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
255.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
出現了很大的弱勢就說我們是工人員考上工人員我有這樣的執照我有這種身份所以我也通過採購法所以我就會看得懂這些電子產品嘛完全不相關所以我們在招標的時候有很多專家協助介入幫我們希望來評選這些廠商的一個能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
257.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
279.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
但是我們在驗收的時候經常就是承辦業管單位那些人在獨立面對我覺得這個部分是給你們做一個思考像這樣的一個產品如果不斷的去做的話那這些針對的問題的可以去處理的這些專家業者怎麼樣去來協助這個政府的一個機構你們有沒有想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
282.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
307.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這個當然機關他本身的判別能力要有嘛那我們會希望說機關這做採購評審的時候那就針對工程會本身已有的專家學者部分來做挑選不過既然是軍方的這些機敏的設備一而再再而三的採購大陸的相關的產品我想這個機關本身要檢討是否有涉及國安的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
309.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
325.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
或別是他不見得是不清楚有的是清楚的採購那這部分這個相關機關除了採購法之外有沒有涉及其他國安問題我想可以請機關一併調查好主委啊因為你也是政委啦我覺得可以去協調一些事情啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
326.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
355.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我覺得很多事情採購法現在的規定反正也已經在市場上實驗這麼久了我覺得該管的尤其有些機敏的機構機敏的功能那就當然要最嚴啦但我覺得你分類分級是一定要的因為你會另外一方面會管到那很無聊的我跟你講那個上次大概幾個月前我看待在某次某處的火災救災救災的一個情況那是消防員那個志工旁邊那個很生氣的在那邊留言 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
357.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
383.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
採購吧消防隊大飛機無人機不敢飛下雨不能飛狀況不行不能飛很貴幾十萬因為我們只能買這個大家組一組就弄怕飛上去淋到雨會壞那後面怎麼弄結果這些不要講誰啦後面他沒辦法要飛進去那個大工廠他就弄了一台你們禁止的DJI小型的為什麼燒掉兩萬塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
385.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
402.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
燒掉大概兩三萬他就飛進去拍好了哇消防隊就用得很好所以他很深情在那邊所以我在想這些救災的像有些山區救難有些這個部分你政府機構在做的但你這次規定讓他覺得弄得非常辛苦他花了30萬 50萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
404.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
422.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
他買的飛機下一天要救災不能用我覺得這個的部分我們希望你能夠找真的去把它能不能分級分類沒有機敏的這個的部分我覺得應該要適度救災救難民生的這個部分你要適度的考量可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
423.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
449.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
對於所有的無人載具那政府部門採購的無人機無人艇之類的我們現在已經請行政院的財政部跟主計總署修改相關的財產規定這個不能視為是財產而是一種消耗品所以各機關有了這些無人機之後他才能夠放心的去使用否則會不小心摔掉或者是說在那個財產 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
450.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
450.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
好 這個主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
465.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
480.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這個我是覺得因為我們有時候你們也是呕心瀝血在想辦法去防範但你要知道我們現在看到了很多的少數少數的一些業者他也是呕心瀝血 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
482.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
499.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
再繞道 規避再隱藏那怎麼樣用這樣剛剛講很多的方式去做處理那我再講一個就是營造業缺供的問題我是覺得這次從108年開始 事實上在疫情之前就已經有 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
500.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
522.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
這整體營造業這是從國土署的資料所以包括了公家的工程私人工程都有但整體營造業缺工的一個情況那疫情這邊是爆量爆量那到112年統計了適當到比108年就恢復到還是缺工的一個情況依舊那我們特別看一下我這邊這個來做結論在112年當這個缺工情況總共營造業缺工了五萬兩千多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
530.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
558.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那其中承攬政府工程的 承攬政府工程的國土組織的資料大概佔百分之一半啊 百分之五十啊兩萬六千多人是做政府工程的那你再看下面的表格呢那這些承攬政府工程兩萬六千人的缺工呢缺工 那先看普通工我們只看合計就好了普通工四千多人技術性的勞工 就要技術性的大概佔百分之六十 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
561.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
582.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
60.8%大概一萬將近一萬六千人其他工地主任稍微管理階級的話大概五千八百人所以我希望你們不管是在國內補足這些勞工的能力人力或者從國外移工因為已經談了好久了不知道最具體的落實的策略是什麼但是我是覺得有個很重要的不是來這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
585.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
602.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
然後都在補普通工啊就我要抱歉我都不太會我要焊接我要把我都不太會所以這技術性的一個勞工是一個最大的基層的一個缺口未來不管是在討論外國的移工要來支援那在外國如何去培訓 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
604.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
621.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
或者還要在國內怎麼樣去培訓那這要到納入思考那國內的很多的培訓的一個機制這些培訓出來的人到底有沒有到這些的位置上針對去工作我倒是覺得給你一個政策上面的思考好不好那你做個結論你來說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
622.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
644.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
的確是公共工程缺工嚴重那如果是針對公共工程如果說特定的需求那工程會會專案那麼來協調勞動部准許他引進移工我們現在有的引進的移工在國內還會受訓在臺灣甚至電焊已經交到可以考取檢定的執照 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
645.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
669.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那這部分很多企業事實上有在進行不過移工有時候他移動性壞就是說他學會執照之後也許會跳或者是被這個聘走了所以目前是有這樣的機制針對公共工程的專案引進那我也知道有些業者他直接就訓練開班訓練訓練甚至指導他去考取檢定考試 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
672.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
692.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
好 我這樣講的是因為缺工的一個議題壓力對產業界是非常非常大的其實這是公共工程私人的部分也是非常非常大所以其實真的有時候是蠻慘的我們也聽說了很多具有規模品牌的公司很多也被逼著你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
693.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
702.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
大家想要申請合法的移工嘛或者引進國內這個優先嘛可是就是真沒有辦法所以想要 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
704.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
725.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
這個合法的移工跟合法的一個國內的專業勞工是求之不到啊沒辦法求到所以現在很多工地啊就是都在工地一進去都是那種違法的一個陰影在那邊不然怎麼辦反正不是這個這一條違法不是移工的違法就是違約的違法哪一條多 哪一條少所以我要拜託 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
726.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
738.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
這個整體的一個營造業勞工的情況我也拜託啦 因為你這麼能不能多跟多跟這個我們勞動部啊真的要多溝通一下了好不好好 謝謝 |