| IVOD_ID |
162116 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162116 |
| 日期 |
2025-06-02 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
19 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-06-02T10:31:09+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-06-02T10:45:09+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f1b1c5cbef0f6d9e580bb8cfe299067c52232a9b15fab92f821bb1a47d55fe3eed2a50a6791172355ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
羅智強 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:31:09 - 10:45:09 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-06-02T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：邀請監察院秘書長、審計部審計長、司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、法務部廉政署署長、銓敘部、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會、行政院人事行政總處、行政院主計總處、內政部警政署率所屬相關單位列席就「如何落實清廉政府及公務員瀆職之態樣與防制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【6月2日、4日及5日三天一次會】） |
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主席有請這個法務部長還有廉政署署長好 麻煩法務部長 廉政署署長羅委員 那個立委是要監督官員不是護航我現在咳嗽 不要讓我笑好 請教一下這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
31.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
52.841 |
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監察院的李敬義秘書長他用公務車接送愛泉美容還把公務車當成Uber E-way自駕送餐那他用一句思慮不周然後本來想交代過去啦但看火越燒越大不敢到立法院接受質詢就坦誠有負職務廉潔標準然後匆匆請辭秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
57.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
77.481 |
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那我剛剛也看到前面有多位委員針對公務車使用的部分 大家有很多的一些意見跟看法那我想請教一下 部長跟署長你們都有配公務車嘛 對不對有然後請問一下 那個 先請問署長好了請問您會把公務車拿去送愛泉美容嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
78.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
106.843 |
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我也沒有養狗沒有養狗不會做私人的事情不會做私人事那所以也不會把公務車拿去當Uber E-way自家送餐嗎我們完全遵照行政院辦的車輛使用規定不可能的事情對不對 部長這應該不用問你們這兩件事都不可能在你身上發生吧我沒有養狗你就算有養狗有養寵物也不會發生這種事吧這個我也不會這樣對嘛 不可能嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
108.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
130.798 |
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我跟各位講 剛剛不管是藍綠的委員 白的委員 都有講標準問題但有些東西就是真的是離譜嘛把公務車拿去送愛犬去美容 把公務車拿來當Uber E我也當過 我也有派過公務車啊我在總務府當副秘書長的時候 這也不可能發生的事情啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
131.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
151.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那我不知道為什麼我們的偉大的李俊逸就會發生這種事情但是沒有關係 他個人的行為我們今天問的是法律的問題事實上過去很多關於公務車使用的一些案例那我們來看看他的法律的結果是什麼我來請教兩位首長 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
153.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
180.408 |
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我想請教一下剛兩位都說你們不會把公務車拿來做私人的使用當作私人汽車使用不會嘛對不對那你知道雲林縣2021年有一位戴姓的消防局長他被指將局長坐車當作私人汽車使用遭監察院彈劾那你知道最後法律的結果是什麼嗎他面臨什麼樣法律的結果請問部長知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
182.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
194.862 |
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這個我不清楚我告訴你懲戒法院判他休職兩年刑事部分依公務員假借職務上機會犯背信罪判刑一年緩刑三年這是這個案例的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
197.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
217.098 |
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那2021年也發生一個台北市警局交通分隊的歐姓小隊長騎公務車 機車與友人參與後 又騎車返家休息那我想請問署長 你知道他最後的法律結果是什麼嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
219.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
247.466 |
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檢察官認為他涉犯公務員假借植物機會背信罪那因為認罪無前科啦所以給予還起訴一年然後再來2021年台南市政府民族事務委員會主委汪志敏因為搭乘公務車前往大學進修參加婚宴、壽宴、私人餐敘我想請教一下請問那個署長你會搭公務車到 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
248.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
252.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
參加大學進修嗎會去參加婚宴嗎搭公務車原則上不會部長會嗎這個要看那個業務的性質有點模糊空間啦會搭公務車去參加壽宴嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
273.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
289.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這個就是要看業務性質如果是這個這個受驗的話這個屬於那個機關業務聯繫有關的這些的話那當然那會搭公務車參加私人餐敘嗎私人餐敘這個不會搭公務車當私人餐敘那你也要看這餐敘的性質對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
291.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
319.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
部長我跟你講我沒有價值判斷這些行為到底是該不該當所謂的一個形式的一個犯罪所以我才問說兩位你們處理的規則是什麼那很明顯不會搭公共車去大學進修嘛 對不對不會啦 就算有這個進修的機會也不會搭公共車去大學進修嘛但是婚宴 壽宴 私人參許那可能就要看業務性質屬性了嘛 對不對但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
320.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
326.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
台南地檢署是以背信罪提起公訴這件事情 然後判處20萬罰金再來 2022年屏東縣警察局 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
335.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
353.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
莊信芬局長在休假期間駕駛公務車到南投縣等地訪友及採購物品我想請問一下署長你會在休假期間駕著公務車去外縣市訪友然後採購物品嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
355.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
381.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
市議上我上下班都是自己開車啦我們的公務車的部分運用上我們會嚴守用公務的部分來判斷非常謝謝 部長呢也是嘛 不會嘛 對不對不會嘛然後他也被拔官移送地檢署偵辦然後2023年基隆市警察局無信保防科長使用公務車接送七小兩位會用公務車接送七小嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
382.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
410.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
不會啦 對不對不會嘛 對不對所以這個也是一條線嘛那他也被依詐欺罪移送基隆地檢署偵辦2024年監察院通過彈劾金房部林姓參謀長因為他讓到金門遊玩的親友搭公務車你會讓你的親友出去玩搭公務車嗎也不會嘛連問都不用問嘛 對不對這不可能的事嘛他公器私用被彈劾啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
411.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
428.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
然後今年1月 松山分局的張姓袁景 開公務車繞道送蛋糕給過生日的女友然後想請問 會開公務車繞道送蛋糕給夫人嗎 會不會 也不會嘛 也不會嘛 對不對 會嗎 也不會嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
435.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
457.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那可是呢 這個行為就遭到台北地檢署 依公務員違背職務損害他人利益等罪 給予緩起訴處分 需繳酷一萬元我跟你講 這太多啦 我講不完啦 我講不完啦可是今天為什麼我要講這件事情我跟部長 跟我們的署長講 確實我承認啦 剛剛前面有幾位委員也有講到 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
458.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
483.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
他有一些標準的問題 好比方你剛剛講參敘那跟參敘到底跟你的業務關聯度是如何可能他有點模糊地帶要釐清對不對可是這零零總總我跟你講我沒有看到比載愛犬去美容把車 公務車當Uber E大概在所有攤檔裡面 這兩個我們禮具最扯欸 沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
485.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
510.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
你去參敘齁 你還可以講說這參敘跟我業務也有關係啊 對不對那你參加婚宴 壽宴我也可以說跟我業務也有關係啊 對不對部長你可能也覺得說這個可能跟業務有關係啊可是你把你的愛犬拿去用公車去美容我想要請問署長囉按照這些通通被判刑 通通被法辦的標準你今天要不要被判啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
512.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
535.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
委員報告 目前這幾個案件都有告發到台北地檢署會不會偵辦我真的就是要看著啦因為太離譜嘛確實我剛才還是強調前面很多的委員在講公車使用有每個地方的標準規則可能不一樣但是沒有一個地方會跟你講說我可以帶著愛犬去美容啦應該沒有這個標準吧署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
537.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
560.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
不會有這個標準吧標準就是要符合公務啦就是跟公務有關對啊 所以我今天在這邊我要跟部長說外界確實在看著這件事情你有些邊緣地帶大家還要再去觀察一下因為這還要釐清比如釐清餐敘的性質 釐清活動的性質 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
562.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
589.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
送狗 送牠的愛犬去美容把車子 公務車當Uber E來去用我看也不用去釐清什麼性質啦純粹就是公器私用如果別的人公器私用都沒事 我覺得那是一回事但是很抱歉 我剛剛念了那麼多還沒念完咧那麼多的案例裡面我就要問到底李俊逸這個我們這個是怎麼樣他是把這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
591.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
615.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
把這個他家的愛犬也當成監察委員了嗎也當成是在去經辦業務嗎所以因此在這邊我們是要看看到底我們今天我們的檢方啊現在已經告發了嘛 廉政署這邊也接到告發了嘛對不對沒有 那是民眾 就是直接民代直接到北檢去告發對啊 所以大家就等著看啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
617.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
644.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
如果我剛剛念的這些都有事情的話我真的就要等著看李靜韻到底有沒有事情啊不是持官就了事 沒錯吧請問部長這種法律的刑事問題不是持官就結束的嘛那這個就是由檢察官來做了解調查對不對 我想問署長如果犯了所謂的不連結貪污或者是背信一些刑事上的一些公務員獨職的問題辭職就可以 責任就結束了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
647.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
667.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
它的案件調查其實要看構成要件因為在之前有很多的案子其實是有移送然後判刑也有一些沒有移送它的標準你完全講到重點了完全的標準就是說它有一個用點我告訴你你完全講到重點了那標準真的浮動啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
668.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
693.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
不是 跟委員講就是他其中有一個我來跟你講我剛剛有一個我們有問的2018年時任移民署長就中央級官員然後帶著妻子搭乘公務車旅遊你知道他的結果是什麼就辭職而已 對不對所以我就要講同樣的情形在地方的時候他就判刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
694.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
722.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那中央好像奇怪啦 就沒事啦跟委員報告一下 他那個在車輛使用上他有首長的一個用車的一個部分還有一般派遣的部分那派遣的部分會有派車單跟油料的一個問題那所以說在這個部分上會比較牽涉到那個就相關我們剛剛談到的那個部分當然首長的部分也必須要去觀察啦是不是有公務人員的違法我當然知道啦 我就說過齁如果有些派讓齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
723.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
746.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
就像我剛剛講餐巿、壽宴、婚宴那中間到底他算跟你業務的關聯度如何啊那是有各樣的去釐清啦這一點我也認同啦可是就像剛剛前面兩位講的嘛我們在質詢過程當中不用再為禁慾再去找任何的一些緩狹的空間了啦這兩件事情就赤裸裸的公器私用已經是踩到底了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
748.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
772.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我跟你講我還是那句話我剛念那麼多的案例沒有比他更離譜的啦有嗎有哪個比送狗去美容離譜的哪一個有比送狗去美容離譜的把車子當Uber Eats離譜的有一個警察也就是騎著車拎個蛋糕去給女朋友就有事啦他有像我們李靖鈺帶著狗去美容嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
774.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
793.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
他是繞個路送個蛋糕去 也有事啊所以不要說今天這公務車當然標準 說真的 大家好好去想想標準不一致的問題也是個問題可是有些核心的地帶就是明顯有 按照過去這些判準判例我真的拜託啦 檢查機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
796.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
812.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
不要讓大家覺得說好像又遇到民進黨的要員李靜韻是民進黨的要員喔大佬喔遇到民進黨的要員又沒事了重點是今天質詢完因為辦案還需要時間啦對不對辦辦辦一個月兩個月半年之後一年之後發現風頭過了悄悄悄悄又沒事了 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
821.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
836.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
這是我們經常會有人覺得說今天辦案標準不一致讓大家會對司法沒有信心的原因所以拜託啦 努力一點好不好這是請署長跟部長能夠去看看社會大眾的期待 以上 謝謝 |