| video_url |
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| 會議時間 |
2024-10-24T15:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院黨團協商（事由：一、繼續研商有關「114年度中央政府總預算案（含附屬單位預算及綜計表－營業及非營業部分）」及「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案」、「113年度中央政府總預算追加預算案」（民進黨黨團提議）二、研商有關「公職人員選舉罷免法部分條文修正草案」案（國民黨黨團提議）） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 影片長度 |
12226 |
| 委員發言時間 |
14:30:14 - 17:54:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1819.51 |
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1821.112 |
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我懂我懂我懂 不敢不敢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1831.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1859.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
好謝謝那個國民黨團的副總召請假副總召也生病了那民進黨的柯總召也幹事長那民進黨的柯總召也是那兩位總召都身體不舒服啊OK那臺灣民眾黨的黃總召身體怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1867.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1885.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
黃總召,現在兩位總召身體都不舒服,今天都請了病假了,現在就您了。謝謝各位黨團幹部列席,謝謝啊,謝謝,謝謝。謝謝我們組織長還有行政部門的列席,也謝謝各位新聞界的好朋友,謝謝大家。那我們現在正式開始進行我們的查理協商會議,謝謝大家,謝謝,謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1897.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1917.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我們今天列席向各位黨團報告今天列席的有行政院陳主席長我們熱情歡迎我們財政部的阮次長熱情歡迎經濟部的何次長熱情歡迎好謝謝各位黨團幹部各位新聞界好朋友謝謝請大家謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1933.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1956.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
各黨代表我們繼續研商有關、「114年度中央政府總預算．含附屬單位預算及綜計表．營業及非營業部分．及中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案．及113年度中央政府總預算追加預算案．民進黨黨團提議．二、研商有關公職人員選舉罷免法部分條文修正草案．國民黨黨團提議． |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1957.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1977.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那我們首先上一次我們參與協商結束的時候有請我們主計長跟各黨團來溝通以及還有幾天的時間能夠來跟行政院各方面各單位來溝通我們先請陳主計長來報告一下目前溝通以及研商的情形請陳主計長發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1980.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1997.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
謝謝院長還有各黨團的一個委員還有我們同仁大家午安那我主要是要針對就是說我是針對就是說我們第一個一個行政院的一個立場還有一個就是整個將來一個裁員的一個操作的一個方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1998.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2024.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
這個一個編列的現在有所爭議主要是因為依照我們憲法第70條還有預算法第91條還有財政紀律法還有財政收支法等相關的一個規定那就是所提的一個法律案大幅增加支出或減少稅務的部分要先徵詢行政機關的一個意見還有要指明相關一個資金的一個來源那因為這個程序上這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2025.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2026.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
主席主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2042.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2060.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
原住民的一個綜合發展基金裡面先行來支應那後續年度我們再來做一個補足那再來在針對所謂的健保點值的一個部分那健保點值目前我們為了改善健保的一個財務狀況在114年度我們已經有依註健保基金336億那原來就是等於說其中有 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2068.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2071.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
建保支出的項目181億已經於公務負擔另外又增預建保基金155億建保總合依照比例提升之後﹐也可以增加500多億總共合起來增加700多億 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2084.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2113.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
這個你如果說要用健保點子健保點子是要視你的服務量整個服務量事後來看然後再去處有的醫院他服務是太多然後這個部分是怎麼樣去調整這個部分因為我們整個健保制度是採總額制並不是點子制所以這個部分還是必須要衛福部他透過整個一個落實分級醫療的配套機制逐步達到穩定醫療服務點子的一個目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2114.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2120.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
公糧收購方案（經過農業部審慎評估和跟產業溝通（還是認為一級二轉三加三的策略（推行三年以後（提升公糧的價格（這個部分有納兵預算（建請教會審查後（由農業部做政策的說明（以上一個補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2141.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2152.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
謝謝陳主席長的發言接下來針對陳主席長的發言各黨團有沒有幹部有沒有寶貴意見要提出好 我們首先請國民黨團林思明書記長請發言是 謝謝院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2155.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2181.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
委員長我想今天聽主席長該的發言我們很遺憾對於原住民進法補償這一部分主席長還是堅持說要在原住民族發展基金裡面去做撥補我想我們一再強調行政院要依法行政因為這筆錢如果你是用原住民族的綜合發展基金裡面去撥補這個就沒有合法就不合法不合規嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2182.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2191.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
所以為什麼我們就是真的是不理解為什麼行政院到現在還一直堅持說要在這個基金裡面去做撥補 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2192.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2220.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那我們一直強調你依法編列這不是難事啊你就把總預算做相關的一個預算的一個調整做追加嘛這是最簡單的一個方式就是說法律案已經通過了你如果是用基金的方式來做撥補的話那你明年呢你說你明年說你把這個錢再用撥補的方式去撥補到我們的綜合販機但明年後年呢你不做呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2221.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2221.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
國民黨黨團提議（國民黨黨團提議．國民黨黨團提議．國民黨黨團提議． |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2239.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2255.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
所以我們堅持我們認為這樣的一個做法在不合法的一個情況之下我想我們真的很難接受那我再講一下請問一下我想這一次總預算今天我們真的是希望行政院能夠有善意的回應所以聽到今天這樣的一個結果我們真的很遺憾 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2259.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2286.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們也看到今天民進黨似乎對明天我們在星期二的時候有做程序委員會我們已經釋出很大的善意我們希望在明天的這個院會能夠把這件事情解決但是我們看到民進黨今天在我們的議場在排隊我們不曉得排隊是明天他們是要做什麼事情是不是要干擾議事的進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2287.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2309.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
如果是真的要善意的話大家一定要互相的釋出善意如果明天你們企圖霸占主席台來干擾議事的進行我們真的看不到我們的執政黨有任何的善意所以是誰在阻擋我們預算的審查我要請國人要看清楚了以上 謝謝好 謝謝林世民書記長的發言我們請吳世堯幹事長請發言台灣民眾黨請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2317.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2330.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
謝謝院長、謝謝各黨團的朋友今天第三次我們坐下來好好磋商總預算是不是能夠順利來交付審查這是第三次院長召集的朝野協商我想大家時間都很寶貴 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2332.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2346.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那對於整個國家社會來講．更寶貴的是國家的進步．跟人民的福祉今天的協商我們希望聚焦在總預算交付協商審查的這一個重要議案 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2348.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2360.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
所以讓總預算能夠順利排入明天的議程這是我們最希望能夠來進行的那我優先先回答一下林思明書記長所說的民進黨團那今天在議場外去排隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2366.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2372.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
好那大家我也清楚在這個地方跟大家說明正因為過去發生過幾次已經程序委員會因為沒有排定院會的議程所以說明天的議程未定的狀況之下總預算能不能夠順利被排案還不要說排案之後表決能不能通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2388.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2388.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
民進黨黨團提議）） |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2419.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2433.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
民進黨團同仁在現場開始希望能夠做這些預先的部署但是當然另外我們也比較擔憂一點就是今天看到院長除了總預算的協商還排了選罷法的協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2438.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2450.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
這就是昨天讓整個黨團的同仁也讓社會包括很多跑國會新聞多年的媒體大家都在問一個問題選罷法不是要先由黨團協商由 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2453.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2478.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
國民黨來召集嗎因為上一次應當也是上週針對第一次總預算協商的時候當時韓院長就已經把未經黨團協商的選罷法放到議程了所以在上週的協商經由本黨表達異議認為這樣不符程序不可以為了選罷法再一次閹割了程序正義應當由提案委員就近乎二讀的議案該黨團來主持協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2482.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2505.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
所以也終於獲得讓選罷法回到應當有的議事規則那就是昨天由林思敏委員於昨天下午的4點半召開選罷法的協商可是很奇怪咯協商還沒開始還沒進行昨天中午我們就收到韓院長今天又把選罷法列到今天朝野協商的議程 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2506.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2531.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
所以我們當然擔憂說那國民黨的朋友們是不是又把協商當過水非常遺憾昨天下午4點半到6點的協商就驗證了主席主持的司民委員確實就是把協商當過水了所以我希望院長我們今天就程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2532.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2550.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我們就讓總預算成為今天開會的優先事由讓總預算的問題能夠被解決大家智慧的提出解方有總預算才有其他的事項的爭取如果總預算連續在明天第六檔了 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2551.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2562.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
黨的六次關乎民生的總預算沒有辦法審查進入程序卻又排上了要阻卻民權、沒收民權的選罷法那社會沒有辦法接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2563.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2589.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
所以我們希望今天在程序上優先進行總預算大家提出解方建設性的來談話至於選罷法我是呼籲也請求院長昨天的協商是過水希望今天韓院長的協商不應當再把它作為一個過水以利於明天強行在院會表決我想這個不是回應社會一個好的方式那回到今天總預算的這個議程裡頭呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2591.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2608.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我再一次說依法行政四個字不是只要求行政部門立法部門我們也是廣義的公務團隊我們也需要依法行政國家的法只有一套從憲法到預算法到財政紀律法到 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2609.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2610.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
二、國民黨黨團提議．國民黨黨團提議．國民黨黨團提議 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2630.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2649.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
其他的議案回到各該委員會（讓各該委員會進行委員會中心主義（這些委員更專業（更了解各該政策（回到應當有的場域去做應當有的討論（而今天在院長層級的朝野協商（我們就具體針對總預算的後續（必須排時程由院長來報告（ |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2655.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2678.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
而我們這一次要處理的還有四個預算案四個預算案都把報告的期程排出來然後包括審查的時程一併排出來讓立法院的意識回到正軌讓審預算的程序回到應當有的程序這是民進黨團今天的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2680.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2696.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
計法補償,我是希望我第一輪,我不想再針對這個內容去做太多的著墨因為我希望主席可以發揮您的協助,讓總預算交付審查是優先 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2697.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2718.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
原名的預算回到內政委員會但如果稍後還是在黨的黨團的同仁們還是想對進法補償進一步討論那那個部分實質的意見我會再來發表但是回到一個同樣依法行政我們只有同一套法制在法治國家臺灣同樣要求行政部門也要求立法部門報告完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2720.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2743.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
謝謝吳世耀幹事長的發言在臺灣民眾黨發言之前我想特別介紹今天在我們立法院外有很多民眾來立法院來陳情表達意見我們願今天開潮以前的多位原住民立委也一起來參與我特別要介紹讓大家都知道在我左手邊我們盧憲英委員我們高金素美委員鄭天才委員右手邊吳立華委員陳英委員大家都非常的關切 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2745.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2751.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
大家、全國的觀眾、全國的朋友來報告一下原住民立委今天都非常非常關心這個案子我們現在請台灣民進黨發言,請 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2756.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2783.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
當然謝謝院長先針對於我們今天協商的第一個主題其他沒有必要的話我在我的第一輪發言還是遵守我之前所講的原則我不希望整個協商的現場變成的是炮火失色的政治工坊沒有意義針對主題來進行發言就好了我一開始發言我還是希望遵守這個原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2784.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2788.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
等下如果有溢出這個原則範圍之外的第二輪發言再來做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2790.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2814.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
剛剛聽到我們的主席長對於原住民進法補償的說明我想台灣民眾黨團的立場非常清楚台灣是一個法治國家針對原住民他們在保留地所做的特別犧牲國家依法予以補償這個是在落實憲法對於每一個人基本權利的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2815.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2833.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
立法與補償是立法機關在踐行我們對於受有特別犧牲的原住民本來就應該要做的事情而且用法律來與民定也因此依照立法院三讀通過的法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2835.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2854.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
原住民的保留地依法可以請求給付的公法上請求權本來就是一公頃6萬元現在白紙黑字是有效生效的法律我想這一點無庸置疑第三個部分我們當初 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2856.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2883.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
在面對總預算的時候我們為什麼這麼堅持要求行政部門要把話說清楚因為我們接下來未來等到預算負為審查了以後請由我再強調一次立法委員只能夠刪減只能夠凍結不能夠增加不能夠增加在預算審查的過程當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2884.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2906.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
因此當我們在預算書上面看不到財源的時候我們就會非常的關心說那行政院你把錢編在哪裡你沒有編經費的這個瑕疵無論如何是不可能透過事後的預算審議來治癒這個瑕疵的那今天主計長終於說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2910.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2929.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
看起來比較清楚一點但我等一下有兩點困惑可能要請行政部門先表達一下他們的立場因為總是要跟大家解惑把事情說清楚、講明白剛剛我們主計長的說法是 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2930.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2954.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
明年一公頃6萬元4萬由公務預算支出那2萬由原住民族綜合發展經濟支出我剛聽起來應該是沒有誤會主計長的意思但我只有一點困惑那個困惑是說原住民族綜合發展基金可不可以拿來發進法補償 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2959.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2980.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
原住民族發展基金可不可以拿來發進法補償這個是我的困惑因為之前在討論相關議案的時候可能等一下可以請比較熟悉這個議題的原民委員再幫我們做補充說明因為我上一次在協商的時候那也非常感謝鄭天才政委員有提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2981.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3009.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
我們立法院在2018年的時候我們有做的一個決議那這個決議就是說原住民族綜合發展基金你把它用在禁法賭場是違法的那這個法制上面的疑義目前行政院是不是理一清了這個也有關於我們在協商的第一個課題到底是不是可以順利的能夠獲得解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3011.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3039.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
那還是說目前行政院的立場是說違法沒有關係我反正先發違法沒有關係我反正先發人民拿到錢最重要未來再來做調整是不是有這樣的立場恐怕要請行政院先說清楚講明白那第二個行政院明年發一公頃六萬元有沒有附帶條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3040.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3066.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
有沒有附帶條件因為我上次協商的時候我必須要再說一次我非常驚訝的聽到有個附帶條件說要我們同意明年要修到卓榮泰的一公頃4萬元這個條件到目前為止存在還是不存在可能也請我們的行政部門能夠先表明因為這個比較攸關於說我們等一下在討論的時候是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3067.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3087.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
不管是我們原住民的朋友還是其他應該要編的預算是不是有編足那我們可以順利的交給委員會審查一個蠻重要的關鍵那其他的話我都先不說我先針對總預算的這個部門來請教一下我們的行政部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3089.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3110.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
那麻煩陳主席長,針對剛才三位黨團所發言的部分,您先做一下解釋好不好?先做一下說明。那接下來,我們主席長請先說明一下好嗎?原住民發展基金能不能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3111.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3134.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
因為以原住民發展基金第21條裏面他有規定這個部分就是說他應該要提撥一定的比例納入原住民綜合發展基金作為回饋和補償的一個經費所以他在21條的原住民的一個基本法裏面他就規定到支出然後他18條裏面就是規定到收入他就是相關的收入作為裁員 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3136.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3160.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
這個部分以往執行的時候（也都是由公戶撥到基金去執行（所以我們每一年都是撥（像今年28億也是會有公戶（撥到基金28億（所以基金裡面今年也有編28億的支出（只是說這個如果不足的部分（我們由基金的財源先行去支應（支應的結果不足（我們在以後年度來撥補（撥補給它不足的部分（以上說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3165.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3182.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
那各位黨團幹部我們剛剛主席講說明就是原住民基金所播放是合法的完全合乎規定那蔡議員你稍微等一下第一輪黨團幹部都發言完今天五位原住民委員還有我們雲林縣的張家俊委員都在現場我想原住民委員一定有很多話想說那 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3183.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3203.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
容許我來掌控一下這個議程就是我們三個黨團做二輪發言之後原住民委員請準備發言原住民委員發言的時候我們先讓黨團幹部與我們草野協商先讓黨團二輪發言請原住民委員五位委員稍微準備一下好 你們等一下要發言好 請蔡義雲幹事長 謝謝請蘇紀長蘇紀長不好意思院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3210.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3231.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那我想剛剛聽了三個黨團的第一輪發言那我想首先有一個重點就是說臺灣是法治國家這個法治的精神並不是只有行政要依法行政我們立法也是必須要依法 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3232.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3246.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
來立我們的法律既然預算法、財政紀律法以及相關的一些法律都有規定符合財政紀律的前提之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3248.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3273.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
立法才能去做相關法令的一個訂定所以事實上這就很清楚就是說我們在講的就是說我們今年度如果公務預算是用4萬元剩下的2萬元的部分讓行政機關未來去尋找裁員那剛剛討論的裁員有可能是從基金來作為補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3276.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3294.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
那這個是一個行政機關現階段在協商的時候也是經過院長你多次主持那我們執政黨一樣是有誠意要來解決問題我們希望總預算可以趕快赴為審查的前提之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3295.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3311.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
那大概也有去說如果真的今年6萬要上路的話他的裁員是怎樣那這是在協商的過程但是大家不要忘記了在於這個法定例的當下基本上一直存在著 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3312.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3341.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
因為財政紀律法第5條、第7條的規定我們這樣的立法下去有違反了財政紀律的前提之下所以我們才會希望說我們今天的協商並不是單單這講進法補償明年度的問題我們希望讓它法治化所以我們希望有一個前提就是說我們再來補足補正當時在立法的瑕疵 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3343.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3365.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
當時的立法就是因為行政機關並沒有同意到6萬他當時同意是4萬那除了同意之外當時也並沒有說明彌補這一個預算的一個裁員就是說在當時這些瑕疵都存在那既然我們大家也都有看到這些瑕疵我們不能漠視它所以我們希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3366.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3389.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
三個黨團可以一起來補正這樣的一個瑕疵這是第一個那第二個 院長不好意思我再說明一下如果依照原住民基本法第18條那關於原住民的土地的賠償補償及收益款相關法令規定的撥款及其他收入是可以用原住民的綜合發展基金來支付的 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3390.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3412.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
那這一個情況在105年、106年一直到112年都一直有用基金來做撥付的一個狀況那基金在撥付的狀況也不是只有在民進黨執政的時候有用基金撥付相對的在過去國民黨執政的時候還是有一樣的狀況所以並不能說過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3415.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3429.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
再用基金的補充．大家都說那個情況都不要去談現在這個主席長談到了用基金來做補充那大家都說這個是不合法的我想這個相對是我們比較不能接受的好 謝謝好 謝謝采宇現在接下來請國民黨團二人發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3437.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3452.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
主席、各政黨代表、原住民立委們主席、各政黨代表、原住民立委們現在看起來行政院仍然不採取 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3454.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3455.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
一、重編預算．一、重編預算．一、重編預算．一、重編預算． |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3471.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3490.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
採用綜合發展基金到底有沒有違法的問題到底有沒有排擠我們原民在其他的包含他們的貸款包含他們的住宅修繕補助等等之類都是在綜合發展基金支應而一直在用綜合發展基金支應已經使得原來的百億的一個資產的淨值現在都變成負的 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3496.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3496.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
二、民進黨黨團提議（國民黨黨團提議．國民黨黨團提議． |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3517.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3542.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
但是我們現在所面臨的就是我們現在的原民計法補償條例它就是法律啊所以我覺得非常奇怪第一個難道我們今天可以完全否定我們立法院所通過總統公告實施的這個不叫做法律嗎難道所謂法律的定義是由行政院說了算或者民進黨團說了算嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3545.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3562.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
所以我們在這邊以國民黨團還是希望以循正常的預算程序正常預算程序就是你今年可以重編預算我們今年的新增的稅出高達2800億而這2800億的這個稅出裡面很多根本不是法定預算支出比如說最近還有提到我們編了好幾百億的 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3575.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3575.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
二、民進黨黨團提議．國民黨黨團提議．國民黨黨團提議．國民黨黨團提議 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3594.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3596.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
調整、讓法定預算（能夠得到充分的依法編列（無論如何是說不過去的第二點,剛才我也聽到主計長（談到有關健保點值的部分（我不再贅述（他剛才講說有益住多少、健保總額多少等等（ |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3623.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3637.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
但是在上個會期我們在朝野協商的時候行政部門也在場當時的行政部門因為當時是希望能夠提高到一塊錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3638.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3640.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
那麼行政部門覺得這一塊錢會造成支出是沒有辦法支應所以在經過協商的時候這個主決議不只是朝野政黨的簽字還有行政部門的認可啊他們也認可說在這樣的一個0.95是行政部門可以接受的 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3666.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3668.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
因為當時就是把健保點值提高到一那其他部門說這個金額太大他們難以支應等等所以當時也是協商的你不能說現在又完全不認帳了吧對不對另外公糧收購也是如此 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3683.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3693.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
所以我想今天其實今天天氣非常不好但是呢在外面我們也看到有來自於就是我們的原民朋友、農民朋友還有我們的醫護人員的朋友大家都很關心我們這一場的這個朝野協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3703.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3718.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
實際上以在野黨來講我們真的有充分的善意所以剛才我們的書記長也特別提到在星期二的程序委員會上我們留待星期五可以在座討論那如果說今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3724.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3726.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
再也黨是為反對而反對故意不審預算的話那真的在星期二就直接退回就算了但是呢我們考慮到星期四我們還有一場朝野協商而且呢我們也願意給行政院有更多的時間來去解決這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3744.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3750.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
所以必須要強調然後至於呢剛才有特別提到今天早上我們也看到民進黨的這個委員們也很辛苦我說今天呢天氣不好啊那麼大家早早的呢就守在了議場的門口 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3760.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3764.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
那我也不知道守在議場門口﹖到底他的意思是什麼﹖是要去大戰主席臺嗎﹖是要干擾這個明天的議事的進行嗎﹖可是顯然剛才我也聽到我們的吳思瑤幹事長說﹖其實是要確保我們的這個相關的議事能夠進行﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3783.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3785.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
那我也很納悶啦因為事實上我們同樣的就是在院會的時候那麼我們一成不確定然後我們在座討論也許會進入表決但是呢以10月4號10月18號 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3801.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3801.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
二、國民黨黨團提議．國民黨黨團提議．國民黨黨團提議．國民黨黨團提議． |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3817.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3821.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
十月十八號其實我們都很順利的來進行討論然後我們出席的委員也都能夠充分的表達意見所以我不曉得明天會跟這幾天有什麼不一樣所以要特別提出來的我們其實還是會非常的希望就是把 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3843.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3854.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
該編的法定預算．還有相關主決議．也就是行政部門答應立法院．答應朝野立委該做的事情．能夠趕快的．能夠把它．能夠． |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3858.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3867.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
應該有一個合理而且讓我們能夠接受的一個處理的方式那麼我們當然也樂見這個預算趕快來審查我們也樂見我們的院長可以來報告但是這個前提一定是行政院必須要有誠意解決以上謝謝謝謝王宏威首席副市長的發言台灣民進黨請二人發言哪一位請 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3891.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3907.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
請二人發言,請謝謝院長,剛剛其實我提了兩個問題,第二個問題主席早沒有回那沒有回我就當怕是不存在所以現在已經沒有要在野黨配合他們明年修法,修回每公頃4萬元的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3911.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3912.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
在立法院三讀通過法律案以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3938.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3951.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
原住民針對他們的保留地每公頃6萬元這個是三毒生肖的法律國家依法本來就應該要給付這沒有什麼好說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3952.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3978.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
這才是法治國原則這樣的給付如果把它奠基在要求在野黨配合明年把它修回去每公頃4萬元的話我們不會接受我們無法接受如果依法行政發給我們原住民朋友保留地每公頃6萬元是用明年 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3979.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4006.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
要我們答應修法修回去每公頃4萬元的話我們不會接受我們也無法接受用犧牲用踐踏原住民族朋友的權益來當作代價我們萬萬沒有辦法同意這個是第一點立場要很清楚表明的第二點剛剛主計長說說這樣子的編列是合法的那我就 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4007.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4030.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
覺得有點困惑因為除了在2017年除了在2017年鄭天橋委員上一次在協商的時候有提出來的一個主決議說以後不可以再這樣做那事實是他們每一次都同意從2017年以外2018年 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4035.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4051.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
2018年那個時候1月22號禮拜一一樣是在總預算的協商2018年1月22號當初的行政院院長是賴清德參與協商的是行政院的秘書長卓龍炭當時的秘書長那個時候第六案的主決議也說了進法補償經預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4063.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4087.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
要不然就要編列在行政院（要不然就由行政院撥交（原住民族友人會以公務預算（來加以編列那過去（由原住民族發展基金所代電的進法補償（在次一個年度要撥還那我就覺得很困惑所以現在（因為剛剛主計長所講的法規的狀態跟我（ |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4092.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4117.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
所賴讀到的過去所做的一些事情情況都不太一樣所以我剛剛所提的那個問題的第一點的困惑我還是存在那可能我在這個事務的理解上跟認知上比不上我們原住民的委員今天有很多原住民的委員也都有參與我想說那個原住民族發展基金其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4118.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4128.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
是最攸關原住民朋友他們的權益等一下我們也抱持一個開放的心胸聽聽看我們原住民委員大家所採取的看法是什麼以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4130.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4151.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
謝謝黃國昌臺灣民眾黨二輪發言剛才蔡蘇緝長您說你要對場外民眾講話是什麼意思就是說議場我們現在有在排隊各位黨團蔡蘇緝長她的意思是針對明天的排隊針對這一部分跟大家來報告一下我剛剛沒有講因為你剛剛有問嘛剛剛有問啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4159.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4171.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
我只有一句話啦我只有一句話啦我上個禮拜我上個禮拜跟洪森先生一起排了我們三點就排了我們就先地案要不是我政黨協助你們當時候無意義我們總預算就可以復為了 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4177.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4191.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
各位黨團幹部希望...院長不好意思容我打斷我請院長跟大家說明一次清楚說明規則是三個黨團輪流院長有點到名才可以發言還是大家隨便拿麥克風就可以發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4193.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4194.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
主席院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4214.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4242.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
現在又來了一位林倩琦原住民委員也來關心感謝你請坐現在等一下原住民委員因為今天有大概有將近六位原住民委員都在現場七位因為我們黨團幹部的開會的時間的關係我有幾點要特別拜託各位今天在座的原住民委員我知道你們都很關心第一個請控制時間第二個重複性的也就拜託大家也就不用再第三就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4243.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4243.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
請高經緯發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4272.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4299.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
再次謝謝韓院長這是我第三次參加草友協商我要跟場外的我的族人、家人們說聲你們辛苦了你們正在淋雨我們在這裡在捍衛我們的尊嚴剛剛黃國昌委員提到的那個主決議其實就是我提的所以我非常的清楚知道當時的主決議就已經說了我們的行政院進法補償必須要從公務預算裡面來編 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4303.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4324.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
當時的蘇主席他說沒問題蘇院長說這個做主決議這個曾經有過的公文就在國昌老師的手上好我要再講的就是說在原住民部位一直有人講進法補償一定領得到6萬塊我一直很納悶主任也在問我 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4326.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4327.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
所以我們真的拿到6萬塊嗎?我們今天不就是為了行政院少編2萬塊在這裡協商嗎?是不是院長?對吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4336.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4356.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
而我今天也很認真（我把兩本公務預算（一本公務預算（一本綜合發展基金（來給大家看（來給大家說明（各位委員回去的時候（可以翻一下（我先來講（人民單位預算的81頁稅出計畫（我們不久有看到計畫補償（是編了28.161億 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4361.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4376.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
因此我們來看一下綜合發展基金的12頁就是這本比較黃一點的這本12頁的確在業務收入裡面也有看到其他業務他寫其他業務的收入是28.161億 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4379.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4385.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
這個部分就是由原民單位的28.161億到綜合發展基金要去進法補償的 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4394.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4403.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
但是呢我又翻到中和發展基金的34頁114年度的金額數辦理進法補償的費用它上面只有寫27.87億奇怪了27.87億跟28.161億為什麼會少呢到底在哪裡呢我一直在找好終於在61頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4420.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4424.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
六十一頁的一般服務上下的第九上面寫要辦理禁法的後台維運管理也就是我們劃禁法補償要有一些機制讓後台管理的維運費2910萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4442.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4449.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
大家都清楚知道數字加起來就是27.87億加上2910萬等於公務預算裡面的28.161億 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4457.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4477.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
我覺得主計長你不要說謊有些人也不要說謊都說基金跟購物預算一起編列可以拿到六萬塊報告大家兩本預算書在這裡回去好好的用功看一下那繼續呢我要問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4478.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4498.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
中和發展基金（剛剛主計長有講（希望在中和發展基金（不足的那2萬塊（要在中和發展基金裡面（我們看得到（如果不足的2萬塊（按照我們現在7萬多公企（應該要多少（2、7、14 對不對在中和發展基金裡面（也沒有看到14億（ |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4501.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4512.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
所以整個如果按照他們的邏輯這個園民會的單位預算編28.161億的話在綜合發展基金應該要看到14億沒有看到所以我要講的就是剛剛主計長說要在蒸發基金裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4524.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4528.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
真的是違法他講什麼他說基本法第21條他引用21條他說盈利所得是可以放在基金裡面的我沒有意見但是禁法補償不是盈利所得啊院長他是我們的政府侵害人民的權利這叫做特別犧牲 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4552.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4554.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
特別犧牲就必須要政府編列預算補償因此我們才會同意我們兩位原住民立法委員一個是吳麗華 一個是陳穎雖然陳穎是後來才簽的 同意的 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4571.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4577.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
我們就按照他們兩個人提的六萬我是召委我就讓他通過了啊那通過了這個過程我們就不要講了那個不提副議案、總統公告都不提了那我要講的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4586.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4603.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
中核發展基金的預算法第4條第一項（第二款第4目我一直在講凡付出去要收回我們的主計長我在質詢他的時候他說在我們的中核發展基金裡面還有淨值30億如果大家都知道淨值30億的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4609.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4610.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
二、民進黨黨團提議．國民黨黨團提議．國民黨黨團提議． |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4628.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4641.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
行政院主計總署（給原民會的函（因為在111年9月12號的時候（原民會真的受不了了（他行文給行政院的主計總署（他說 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4644.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4650.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
請撥足原住民族綜合發展基金歷年辦理經法補償至累計虧損28.32億這是111年已經虧損了38.32億今年虧損了按照他的中發基金裡面應該是虧損了22億吧然後我們看然後主計總署告訴他說什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4670.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4677.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
原民基金淨值62.1億元．111年淨值62.1億元．現在114年中發基金告訴我們淨值只有30億元．所以裡面歷年來都從這邊出去的．而目前淨值我剛剛說是貸款出去．還沒有收回的 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4693.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4700.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
然後我們的主計處又說（113年度起由公務預算支應進法補償經費一截（很顯然人民會也請求主計處（用公務預算來編進法補償（考量進法補償經費逐年增加（為了維持人民基金規模的穩定（相關經費將是基金財務狀況（ |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4718.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4722.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
事實協處111年的時候已經沒有撥足了剛剛主席長說現在還要用基金請問一下你們什麼時候要撥足這是剛剛我想問的問題第二個問題不是主席長講的是蔡易瑜書記長跟吳思堯幹事長提的他們要提剛剛國參院總召說的他們要提 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4746.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4773.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
下修禁法補償到4萬塊我想問今天難得出席的兩位民進黨的吳麗華跟陳穎同不同意下修4萬塊好嗎我今天很高興看到他們兩位來了不然都是我跟鄭天才兩個人在發言謝謝謝謝高金、宋美委員發言接下來我們吳麗華委員之後有哪一位原住民的委員要發言請舉手沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4777.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4799.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
鄭天才委員請舉手鄭天才委員要發言我們現在請伍麗華委員發言請鄭天才委員請準備請謝謝院長主席今天很高興我一直都想參與協商但是呢因為是邀請幹部所以今天特別開放關心的原民李蔚來我要在這邊特別要感謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4800.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4816.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
關於這個禁法補償其實我個人一直以來我有我自己的認知為什麼我的認知那麼樣的肯定第一我要先跟大家報告我早在7月初 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4817.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4830.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
就已經聽到我們的地方政府（地方公所（跟我表達說明年度的進法補償的一個預算編列真的是6萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4831.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4848.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
在7月初就已經聽到地方政府跟鄉公所跟我這樣說所以我特別把那一份公文請他們交給我果然7月5號 人民會正式的行文發函給各縣市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4849.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4871.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
告訴他們說114年度的各項的科目（計畫的編列（請他們按照那樣去戰估列數（所以我一定要先續名在先（所以對地方政府跟公所而言（其實並沒有這樣的困擾（是後來我們立法院產生這樣的問題（他們反而開始困擾（第二,我要說明（ |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4876.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4897.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
作為一個原住民族事務的最高行政主管機關（他可以在7月初（就是按照年度計行的形式律（要趕快把這樣的一個計畫編列（因為不僅僅是禁法補償（明年我們有非常多的科目預算（都等著地方政府要暫顧編列（ |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4899.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4910.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
那他為什麼會這樣做（當然就是有依據（他依據什麼呢（因為過去他看到（在105年開始發放進法補償金的時候（主計總處有發文給原民會（ |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4918.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4941.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
告訴他們說這個禁法補償的發放是用公務預算及基金各辦編列如果有不足再予以協處這個是因為他們從105年接到這個公文都一直這麼做好那第三我要說明大家在爭執的到底基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4942.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4952.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
能不能來支應我們的進法補償金（我相信主計總署能夠在105年（發文給原民會這麼說（當然也必須有憑有據（所以它依據的是什麼呢（是民國96年（當時把我們的進法補償的一個依據（就是土地限制要補償的時候（在那個地方放入到（ |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4970.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4988.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
基金的管用辦法的第4條的本基金之來源如下上面寫著說原住民族土地賠償、補償、收益款、土地資源開發盈利所得及相關法律規定之提撥款這個過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4991.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5001.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
上一次修訂是在民國93年但是他是在民國96年的11月30日修訂進來的當時還沒有進法補償金的發放但是已經有這樣的遠見規劃那我也要特別說明當時的事務副主任委員是在場的鄭天才委員也許他等一下可以說明那重上我就要來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5022.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5043.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
剛才高金委員很高興您提到我跟您報告其實我進來立法院第二年110年的12月我也是聽到圓明會的官員跟我說吳委員請你去幫忙爭取一定要把進法補償金要求全數編載公務預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5045.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5072.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我當時也聽信了我也覺得很有道理所以呢我兩度質詢主計長朱澤民結果質詢完之後我回去研究整個基金到底是什麼東西我就不堅持了為什麼因為我以為基金真的會發完我也聽信這樣的話後來我發現大家斟酌在看不懂什麼叫基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5074.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5090.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
基金短處是指當年度的支出跟收入加減所得是當年度我舉個例子我們的人民綜合發展基金向來都是大部分拿去放去做貸款 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5091.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5110.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
如果我放出去50億的貸款但是我只有收回10萬的利息10萬的其他的收入包括溫泉收入等等我是短促了40億但是我不能說我負債40億但是我也看了預算書第33頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5113.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5124.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
我們的基金是要看淨值的很明顯的寫著我們113年12月底我們的基金淨值還有68億多我也查了從民國95年歷年主計總數一直撥進來人民基金的累計已經高達199億多 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5137.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5155.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
所以大家都應該很清楚資金是發放得出來的所以我們的園民會也願意也敢也覺得理所當然在7月5號發出這樣的公文所以時至今日我不太曉得說我在這裡我到底要說什麼我不知道我要說什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5159.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5172.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
但是我願意如果大家能夠聽到我講的這番話我希望在外面很辛苦前來承擴的族人真的希望你們聽到我的話因為這幾個月我很難過 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5174.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5190.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
大家為著這件事情到底有沒有分爭、對立、人心惶惶甚至造成原住民族群跟全國的人民的一個這樣的一個嫌隙我於心不忍因為我不知道所為何來 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5191.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5209.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
對我來講莫名其妙可是如果避免未來再去做這樣的一個糾紛大家今天是協商坐下來談我覺得剛才黃國昌委員他講的每一句話我都覺得很有道理因為我們就坐在這邊就基金到底可不可以拿來發 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5211.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5228.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
只要能發以後怎麼做有沒有附帶條件我是認為說只要未來不要再為這個假議題爭吵我覺得今天坐在這邊我們很願意來聽聽看怎麼做才好讓未來就不要再吵了謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5234.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5252.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
下面還有哪位原住民委員要發言?請舉手。好,盧憲憶委員請準備。好,院長、各黨團、還有我們的行政部門。這個依法行政。天台兄,你可不可以稍微大聲一點。好,依法行政。你可以換一個麥克風。 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5263.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5287.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
拿兩支麥克風沒關係拿兩支麥克風沒關係沒關係依法行政是最基本的我們要想到對原住民族而言只有15億的不足我們今年要開這麼多次的協商成為原住民族最卑微的懇求這個是我已經上次我也講過原住民因為這樣的一個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5294.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5314.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
造成分裂我非常非常的難過行政院既然沒有依憲法提出復議就表示沒有自愛難行就應該要依法編列預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5316.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5342.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
但是就是少編了15億的經費所以希望趕快今天能夠完成有關韓院長在主持進法補償條例的時候我要再重申上次我也提過行政部門包括當時的行政院副主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5343.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5367.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
包括嚴明會的主任委員都沒有提到4萬塊都沒有提到4萬塊議事錄都有 會議記錄都有所以後來就表決既然通過了 也沒有赴議就應該要依法行政我們一直糾結在這個原住民族綜合發展基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5369.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5397.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
原住民主基本法第18條規定的很清楚前段它是用途用途就是作為發展經濟之用也就是要辦理經濟事業貸款維新貸款創業貸款而且預算法第4條這個不是我寫的是行政院送來的預算書 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5399.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5426.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
預算法明定預算書寫得很清楚本基金系一預算法第四條第二項第二款第四目第四目凡付出仍可收回很清楚這個就是什麼呢就像貸款付出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5427.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5448.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
本金可以收回來（利息可以收回來（淨法補償是不可以的（收不回來的主計長一直在引用研究法第18條的後段是講基金的來源基金的來源如果我們回到 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5449.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5468.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
基金管理應用辦法．基金的來源．第一款循政府預算的收入．撥入進去．就是公務預算．撥到基金可以．原住民族土地的賠償．補償．我查過．都沒有了． |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5475.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5502.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
例如今年度的21億公務預算的撥入那是管理辦法的第一款是公務預算的撥入不是補償的收入不是補償款這個非常的明確也就是因為有這樣的一個規定所以才會有在第九屆 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5504.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5529.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
立法院通過了預算案的主決議預算案的主決議就是措施性的法例這個第九屆大家都很清楚民進黨是絕對多數預算案的主決議那時候大家都無意義通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5531.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5554.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
這個決議就是寫得很清楚就是說過去從106年開始動資原住民族綜合發展基金撥付到禁法補償是違反延期法違反預算法應該要返還這個是第九屆 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5556.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5585.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
第二會期的一個第二會期第17次會議的一個結議好 接下來我們 剛才我們吳立華特別提到113 他一直常引用這個文113年7月 延民會的公文我跟他報告這個是所有各部會要補助給地方政府的 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5586.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5613.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
每一年都在六、七月的時候就要發文請各地方政府亦為編列明年我要補助給你的錢那時候很清楚以今年來講113年7月行政院的預算案行政院會都還沒有通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5615.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5640.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
八月三十一號以前送來（八月中旬之後才行政院院會通過這是長年及一百多年的慣例這是第一個第二請吳委員看清楚我本來不想講了既然你說了我還是說你請你看清楚這個金額是多少呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5643.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5654.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
看公文看清楚你有寫啊113年7月顏明慧的公文你寫得很大進法補償多少錢呢19億8144萬5544元啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5665.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5686.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
19億怎麼能計（我發錯誤的資訊（那是屏東縣的分配額（不是全國（不是 全部的那是屏東縣的提醒一下 發言的時候徵詢一下主席同意 謝謝這是全部的天才兄你稍微再大聲一點你現在搞得變懸疑片了再大聲一點這個是全部的怎麼可能屏東就19億呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5688.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5705.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
怎麼可能屏東就19億呢 對不對這是全部的我也有那張公文這是接下來我再次讓因為他們都比較不知道我是老公演 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5709.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5738.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
科建民總召第一次協商的時候（我也很高興他知道（他竟然知道我很感佩（我那天也說謝謝他民國82年（臺灣省政府我在服務的時候（就以要點（來訂定禁法補償（那時候一公頃就是兩萬塊（現在已經三十幾年了（ |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5739.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5767.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
所以我們現在已經訂了條例好105年確實沒有錯馬英九執政的時候的最後一年104年的8月31號送來的預算書有包含公務預算跟基金這是事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5769.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5796.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
所以我當時感謝毛治國院長法例還沒通過進場補償條例是114年12月底通過的但是8月114年8月31號就先編了預算所以我質詢的時候我就感謝他但是我特別跟毛治國院長說用基金是不可以的 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5798.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5821.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
我把你姑且證為代為店婦（還是要返還（一、四路全部都在（一、四路都在（而當年105年（並沒有動用到（雖然變了基金（沒有動用到基金（全數都是公務預算（從106年開始（ |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5825.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5847.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
就開始動用到基金（所以才會有第九屆的立法院的主決議（所以這個部分是一個很重要的一個爭點另外就是說（剛才吳立華委員也提了（他有質詢（確實有質詢（他跟我一樣（我也不斷的質詢（ |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5852.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5880.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
不可以再用綜合發展基金所以今年113年度的21億全部都是公預算沒有編列原住民組綜合發展基金這個預算書都很清楚所以本席要特別特別的來拜託我們行政院能夠尤其是主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5882.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5903.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
我們就15億而已我們可以用第二一倍金也可以修正預算我也講過民國100年12月5號行政院、伊利法院100年12月2號的結議當時吳敦利院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5908.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5934.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
一、立法院一百年十二月二號的結議（三天之內一百年十二月五號（就修正了一百零一年度的預算（修正增加多少呢一百六十幾億啊我們只不過是十五億所以這個部分其實是非常容易解決的 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5936.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5950.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
還要弄到法院長要三次的協商所以這個部分我特別特別再次的懇求行政院要依法行政以上 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5957.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5976.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
我不是要舉手插話我只是有一個跟院長的請求因為我們剛剛講建議就是說因為院長很辛苦那大家如果有一些概念沒有釐清我們繼續講還是會開花所以我想請求院長可以才是在盧委員發言之前或 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5976.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6004.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
之後可以就剛剛很多委員提到的淨值啦、貸款啦這些請主席還有那個凡經付出人客收工等一下主席長會再一次做說明但我是建議說是不是可以先行說明在我發言之前先說明因為不然我覺得這個概念不清楚再繼續講大家都沒有焦急這是我替院長著想的建議希望你不要那麼辛苦謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6005.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6031.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
我們先謝謝剛才老公務員我們鄭天才的發言我的想法是幫大家想因為各位原住民委員都非常關切這個案子所以我的想法也是幫你們想讓你們先一輪發言之後我要就請主席長說明主席長說明之後三個黨團幹部一定會有其他的意見補強我想這樣子的話關於原住民委員大家都非常關切就有一個可以把自己的想法講出來的機會這是我幫大家想的陳議員這樣您能瞭解我的想法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6035.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6036.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
主席主席主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6057.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6083.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
大家都很聰明大家也都知道大家也都是識字6月24號公告到現在已經4個月了大家擔心的就是沒有依法編列這個事實然後呢我們行政院長他又常常會說惡例不可開那我們原住民要怎麼相信你們有誠意然後民進黨常常說我們是正式人權正式公平正義站在原住民這一邊可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6085.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6107.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
我們會覺得很可笑所以我們只要知道說我們15億要不要編組而已就這麼簡單的問題然後我們一直要講那個零命基礎到現在我們聯合國的一個對原住民主的看法甚至我們憲法的原則你們一直說什麼財政紀律法、預算法 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6108.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6135.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
文憲的問題可是憲法正修條文第10條的第12項不是也是保障民員住民嗎所以憲法跟憲法比較的時候是哪一個比較優先所以不是只有你們有憲法我們也是憲法保障的所以你們每次都說財政紀律法預算法可是這個跟那個有關係嗎所以希望你拿點良心然後一直說惡力不可開哪裡來的惡力6萬塊只是基本的綠色存底而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6136.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6138.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
含附屬單位預算案．含附屬單位預算案．國民黨黨團提議．國民黨黨團提議．國民黨黨團提議．國民黨黨團提議 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6164.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6173.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
不是 等到公糧收購再請你發言好不好張大靚委員一定是為這個事情很關心我們現在請陳議員發言之前請主席長能不能再說明一下好 謝謝請 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6176.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6197.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
其實我們剛剛談到原住民基本法裡面是第18條它有一個基金的一個來源那一個來源就是公庫的一個撥入款那這公庫的撥入款其實我們整個支出的執行是在基金執行那基金執行它其實基金有一個作用就是說你如果被虐不足它可以超支並決算 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6198.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6221.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
策劃這併決算的部分跟公僱之間的一個算法就是說我本來公僱應該撥你30億但是你現在你超過了30而已將來這個部分我再下一年度來做撥補所以它會有一個收入的來源它也有一個支出所以它支出經理我們本來就是說建議因為你要看這個基金它有沒有剩餘款 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6223.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6251.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
現在到今年為止還有30億的剩餘款如果這個基金我超支我本來現在是4萬的額度超過它到6萬的額度我用併支出來處理支出並決算處理之後這個將來不夠的款項我在115年我編列預算國庫來撥補回來也是它的一個財源所以它也是一個支出一個收入有在收回所以我要這樣說明以上一個補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6252.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6262.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
好,謝謝陳主委長補充說明那陳議員發言完畢還沒其他委員要發言林倩琪委員要發言那黨團幹部請稍微等一下我們先讓原住民委員盡量一輪的表達意見請陳議員發言,林倩琪委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6265.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6286.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
好 謝謝院長那我想我要在這裡首先我要先重申我的立場因為我是提案人我主張進法補償要6萬元好 那我想剛剛盧縣議委員有提到說我們原住民很關心怎麼編列但我想他們會更關心到他們手上的是不是每公頃6萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6288.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6310.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
至於怎麼編列,我想這個功課似乎在立法院大家比較關心也比較清楚整個預算的編列方式那剛剛前面也有委員有提到就是說有什麼附帶的下修4萬元這件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6311.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6331.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
不好意思我是沒有聽說過我剛剛問了吳立華委員他也沒聽說過那我又問了黨團幹部這個應該是有點片面的這個擷取那如果說就是未來要修公務預算要修他也有可能是往上修啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6332.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6347.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
調整是可能往上調也可能往下調但是大家不要自己嚇自己或者我們又去嚇很多的原住民說傳來傳去變成下修四萬塊這件事情我想在這邊先呈現這個但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6348.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6360.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
我就是堅持我們這次修法我提案就是六萬元那未來你說如果真要下修我也不會同意啦那這是我的立場那再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6363.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6363.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
主席主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6389.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6394.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
有關公職人員選舉罷免法部分條文修正草案．國民黨黨團提議．國民黨黨團提議．國民黨黨團提議．國民黨黨團提議．國民黨黨團提議．國民黨黨團提議．國民黨黨團提議．國民黨黨團提議．國民黨黨團提議． |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6414.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6439.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
建議把基金規定改為總額不得低於100億元（而且要比照離島建設基金及花東基金這樣的提案（如果這樣的提案通過（才有可能導致基金破產（因為差別在於離島建設基金的規模（ |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6443.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6470.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
法律規定定在300億它是固定的然後分10年撥補所以撥完用完之後政府就不會再挹注基金除非大家再來修法那花東基金它也一樣規模是400億也是固定的分10年撥補那也是撥補完之後政府就不會再挹注基金你如果還要再要我們又要再重來一次又要再修法所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6472.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6497.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
這個假如我們今天縱合發展原住民的縱合發展基金按照主計長再三的解釋他就是會一直的撥補那如果今天我們這個提案按照這樣的修法比照這個離島建設基金跟花東基金這個總額固定之後那撥補完用完就沒有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6499.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6526.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
所以用這樣的方式那我們的綜合發展基金才有可能破產所以這個部分我就在這裡提出補充說明那麼另外我要在這邊也就是跟各位提出一個請求跟建議就是說其實這一次的修法有 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6527.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6527.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
民進黨團提議． |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6543.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6549.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
二、研商有關公務預算案．公務預算一定要編多少．公務預算一定要編多少．公務預算一定要編多少．公務預算一定要編多少．公務預算一定要編多少．公務預算一定要編多少．公務預算一定要編多少．公務預算一定要編多少． |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6569.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6570.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
國民黨團提議（國民黨團提議．國民黨團提議．國民黨團提議． |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6586.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6609.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
最後變成好像一個政治議題在操作我覺得這個是我非常不樂見的事情所以今天藉著這個協商那我也跟外面的族人說一聲大家辛苦了那注意保暖那麼我覺得其實今天根本大家不用擔心這樣一輪聽完其實大家就是明年就是會領到6萬塊錢的這個禁法補償 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6613.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6616.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
含附屬單位預算案．一、繼續研商有關 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6635.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6644.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
來編列的話那我想大家可以更快速的然後總預算通過然後我們大家可以領到禁法補償以上謝謝好謝謝陳議員接著林建琦委員請發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6650.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6669.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
謝謝主席 各位立委同仁大家好剛才我們在幾人的發言我們也聽到這個事情來龍去脈的一個交代那我想細節的這個部分大家應該都蠻清楚那各自依據大家所認為的法條來解釋這件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6670.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6699.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
但是在發言當中我聽到幾位原住民委員包括我自己心裡是非常的傷痛我覺得我們原住民在這件事情上感覺很卑微的在這樣一個體制下好像感覺我不想講出那個字但是我用這個盧委員曾經在一次質詢裡面講我們原住民沒有Kick價這個概念好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6701.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6718.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
他剛才也提到幾件事情我講比較清楚一點那兩位民進黨原住民的委員我想我們都為原住民的事務在努力在推動但是我不希望因為政黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6719.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6736.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
而讓我們裂解這是我最主要的一個觀點所以我也不希望我們在這樣一個體制下感覺非常的卑微那剛才大家都交代過了所以我現在指在今天的協商我們很務實的在這個體制跟這樣一個方式上我來 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6740.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6768.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
討論幾個問題第一個是我們感謝吳立華委員在地方上有確定這個中央發了函把這個戰估列數讓族人知道說可以領到這樣子的錢但是呢我們今天在這邊不就是在確定族人還有我們的人民能夠把應領到的錢在一個法治的流程當中領得很驕傲嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6769.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6797.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
我們是配合國家政策我們配合國家政策犧牲自己的權益我們有需要這麼卑微的來拿到這個錢嗎我們有需要這麼懼怕的不知道這個錢會不會盧數給我們嗎這不是我們現在在這邊做的事情嗎那我們要做的就是我們必須在這個體制裡面把每一件事情確認清楚嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6798.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6808.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
這一次我們發現的是公務預算裡面我們看不到跟它等同的錢被編在裡面這不就是我們在看預算的時候發現的問題嗎在這個過程當中我還發現一件 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6814.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6832.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
令我更訝異的是就是大家一直在討論基金那我想呼應盧委員我們不用在這邊上這些課那剛才大家已經都交代得很清楚如果繼續想上這個課那就來看立法院的這個片子那我想要問一個重點就是其實我以前在新北市 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6834.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6858.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
跟中央曾經推動過原住民的事務當時的基金大概也有將近快100億那我很訝異從禁法補償我們發現了這個公立預算沒有編足的過程當中竟然用的是基金而且離我當時的印象到現在竟然已經是負的好那剛才這個也很感謝陳英偉人讓主席長先把事情交代清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6861.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6862.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
請問我們今天在這邊協商什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6884.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6903.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
請問你在協商什麼?錢在哪裡啦?確定嗎?那這是第一個齁那第二個齁因為剛才主席長一直說國庫會撥補這個叫會撥補啊可是現在是多少錢?短處多少錢?那剛才每位委員其實都交代得非常清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6905.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6916.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
政委員其實講得非常清楚所以那主計長你要不要告訴我們國報怎麼撥補今年怎麼處理未來怎麼處理那你前面那幾年是怎麼處理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6918.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6936.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
為什麽我們所知道的基金的總額一直到現在竟然是短促了你們要用什麽名詞都沒有關係就是族人聽得懂的大家聽得懂的所以重點是您剛才說國庫要撥補你們都一直說這個沒有問題可是我一直沒有聽出來你到底要怎麽做 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6937.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6958.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
剛才高金委員其實交代得非常清楚他在公立預算裡面跟基金對不出來嘛那好不容易對他已經把數額都對得非常清楚了但是我從主計長您的回應裡面沒有聽到究竟你們要怎麼做現在是什麼狀況您一直告訴我們行政上的處理我們還要再上行政課 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6959.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6982.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
所以如果這個部分能夠很清楚那我們協商可能還會有一個結果嘛那也很感謝這個我們陳英委員談到了這個華東基金那華東基金其實沒有我們原住民的這個基金預算法第4條的這個區塊您剛才類比的這個部分或許可以在行政上再確認清楚對族人而言我們需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6984.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7010.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
把這個錢給領到而且確定對所有的人而言那我們依法行政嘛那你們怎麼挪怎麼來那你們就是不要去阻擋到我們的權益這就是一個很基礎的概念而已概念而已你們大可以用許多的語彙很多的行政專業口吻來跟族人說但是重點就是我們需要這麼卑微的要這個錢嗎我們配合了國家的發展那我們需要這麼卑微嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7017.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7030.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
若呼籲原住民的委員跟原住民我們不要被這樣一個體制給裂解我們沒有這樣子的空間謝謝好 謝謝林芊怡委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7034.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7035.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
我們休息十分鐘,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7074.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7077.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
二、民進黨團提議（國民黨團提議．國民黨團提議．國民黨團提議． |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7101.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7113.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
二、民進黨團提議（國民黨團提議．國民黨團提議． |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7120.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7122.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
二、民進黨黨團提議（國民黨黨團提議．國民黨黨團提議．國民黨黨團提議． |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7153.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7166.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
二、民進黨團提議（國民黨團提議．國民黨團提議．國民黨團提議．國民黨團提議．國民黨團提議． |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7221.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7221.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
二、民進黨黨團提議 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
8507.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
8532.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
好謝謝各位黨團幹部也謝謝各位列席的官員我們現在林市民市長你請求發言的請簡短二要我馬上要列一下不是要幹事長請準備是我們今天的主題除了禁法補償以外我們對於農民權益的保障就是我們公糧收購提高到五塊這一部分那我想雲林的張家俊委員他也到場了 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
8533.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
8549.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
還有張奇快委員也到場了還有丁薛忠委員他們都很關心這個議題所以這個議題我們是認為今天的協商也是在這個內容裡面所以我們請院長就是讓我們幾位委員來做發言對這個議題謝謝林士兵書記長的發言請吳思瑤幹事長請發言謝謝主席我想就程序上表達我的意見因為我不知道因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
8558.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
8582.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
今天在這個場合應當就是討論總預算要不要進入審查然後院長總需要來備詢然後以及後續排定審查的時間今天朝野協商的各黨黨編在這裡應當解決三兆總預算的排審問題那我們剛剛花了一個多小時將近兩個小時在討論單一個應當在內政委員會討論的原住民族 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
8589.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
8594.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
一、繼續研商有關:「114年度中央政府總預算案．含附屬單位預算及綜計表．含附屬單位預算案．公職人員選舉罷免法部分條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法部分條文修正草案． |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
8612.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
8636.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
那我不曉得現在如果公良收購要繼續講那是不是等一下未還委員會的委員又來講典值健保典值那又把應當在未還委員會討論的環境部的預算又拉到今天要討論三兆總預算的現場這樣子下去我覺得都完全我們非常尊重大家發言的機會但是相關發言相關議題都應當回到相關的委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
8641.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
8641.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
三、民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議．民進黨黨團提議 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
8668.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
8693.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
這個都是既定的程序而不是在今天我們在解決總預算希望能夠解套交付審查的這個協商會議上進行個別單項預算的討論因為時間是大家的那在相關對的場域討論對的事情這是我們的期待那我另外也要說三兆的總預算如果持續沒有辦法往前推進 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
8694.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
8708.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
明天可能是第6次來決定．他能不能夠順利審查．又有颱風要來了．新增的159億的治水預算．能不能夠被致用呢．在新年度．這幾天．共軍不斷的將軍演常態化．如果黨下的總預算不審．我們的國防預算．也可能就沒有辦法在新年度．被執行了． |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
8723.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
8724.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
二、民進黨黨團提議．公職人員選舉罷免法部分條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
8744.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
8762.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
如果說總預算沒有辦法交付審查（我們有60億的健康台灣生耕計畫（這要做長照的（我們有50億的癌症新藥暫時性的支付預算（沒有辦法支應（這是要照顧癌症病友的（如果總預算沒有辦法交付審查（我們有高達68.85億攸關護理人力（ |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
8766.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
8772.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
有關公職人員選舉罷免法部分條文修正草案．公職人員選舉罷免法部分條文修正草案． |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
8787.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
8801.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
我知道原住民族的朋友們﹐很多在偏鄉﹐我們對於新年度的新興計畫裡頭﹐偏遠地區﹐不管是道路教育的設施﹐數十億省道改善的計畫來自農業縣的朋友﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
8804.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
8830.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
省道改善的計劃道路改善新興計劃有104.55億如果今天沒有辦法再往前推進我剛剛說的這些預算都沒有辦法在新年度被執行所以我們關切原住民族的委員們關切所謂長期我們這片土地最溫暖的力量我們族人朋友的權益同樣的我們也要兼顧全體國人的權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
8833.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
8850.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
我﹐很遺憾的說﹐我的選區﹐在臺北市山區最多的地區﹐我現在仍坐在這裡協商﹐我的服務團隊告訴我﹐他們正要前往陽津公路﹐陽津公路今天因為雨來﹐後來啊﹐又癱瘓了﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
8852.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
8875.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
現在正要針對防災這些東西來啟動大家有各自的選民要服務我們不要讓政府總預算沒有辦法前進我坐在這裡我坐在黨邊我和其的交集我的選區現在陽津公路整個攤房中斷我們需要防災治水請不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
8877.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
8902.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
繼續以單一課題來影響總預算的交付審查．希望內政委員會的委員足夠專業．可以針對禁法補償的政策找出解方．我們相信經濟委員會的委員足夠理性．可以解決共商出公糧收購．後續的預算執行問題．我們更相信未還委員會的委員．大家都有經驗、資深． |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
8904.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
8913.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
能夠針對健保典值的事務．在審議預算的期間．表達方法．所以再次懇求． |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
8914.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
8941.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
等下主席您也許有一些遇擬的才事但是這麼重要的遇擬才事我們希望是針對總預算後續進行的時程來做進一步的討論好 謝謝吳思耀幹事長的提醒那三位立法委員為了農民的公糧收購也在這邊作證我想我們簡短扼要的說明好嗎首先請張家俊委員發言請丁薛忠委員準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
8943.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
8964.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
謝謝院長主持協商那呼應一下吳斯堯委員其實今天的開會是有關於中央政府總預算案那不只是國民黨還有民眾黨我們提出的三樣訴求第一個是原名第二個是公糧收購價格提高第三個是健保點值0.95那我想這三個議題都必須要受到重視跟討論我們才有辦法往前推進那我想要講的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
8972.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
8974.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
農業部完全是裝蒜公糧收購價格提高這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
8980.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
9004.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
這麼的明確（他一直在講說一級二轉三加三（那是一個新的名詞來包裝（農業部已經行之有年（十年以上的這樣子的一個政策（那既然他已經實施十年以上（而且他也沒有辦法取代公糧收購制度（那就代表著公糧收購制度（有其存在的必要性（ |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
9006.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
9008.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
包括說他講的說一級二轉三加三（如果假設他有效的話（他已經有效了（甚至說他說一年會提高一塊（我也主動的在這個經濟委員會上（質詢了陳俊記部長（我說你有辦法保證說這個實施下去（一年真的會漲一塊嗎（ |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
9030.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
9036.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
如果不能長一塊你可以下台負責嗎他說他不敢保證所以他就是把農民當作實驗品嘛為什麼不能夠好好的來落實照顧這些農民呢他說因為呢他要做這個集中這個擴大這個產量我的意思是說他一級二轉三加三照顧的都是大農我們公糧收購 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
9056.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
9068.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
制度是在照顧老農、小農這樣子所以我覺得應該是要並行而不是一再的說不願意來推動公糧收購價格提高而且如果以去年收購29.1萬噸量來算的話假設不要說提高5塊提高8塊也只增加23億 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
9079.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
9083.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
就算是2012年那一年中了45.6萬噸（也只增加36億（所以哪裏來的100億（請不要危言聳聽（而且公糧收購是有限制的（ |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
9094.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
9109.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
他不是一個毫無限制的收購甚至說公糧收購價格提高才有助於民糧價格也提高我在最近一直訪視了很多的糧商除了訪視農民之外我也訪視了糧商我說請問你們反對公糧收購價格提高嗎糧商很意外的 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
9116.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
9119.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
表示了意見．他說假設公糧收購價格不提高．他們也收不到糧．因為越來越少農民種稻．所以他們支持公糧收購價格提高．讓他們可以更好的去收到糧食．那再進一步呢．為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
9135.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
9137.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
為什麼一級二轉三加三這麼多年這個新名詞的包裝還是有這麼多的農民種水稻有一個原因是有很多年老弱勢的農民他們幾十年來就只會種水稻你要他們轉就是逼迫他們老年轉業 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
9155.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
9180.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
就是提高公糧收購的補助主要就是在照顧這些比較弱勢的農民他們沒有成本去做溫室他們也沒有技術去種一些新的作物他們只會種到所以我不能理解說為什麼農業部他的主旨應該是要照顧農民而不是去講求績效講求理想他一再的去講一級二轉三加三 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
9180.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
9184.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
你就站出來嘛否則農業部就站出來說我就是不願意照顧這些農民我就是不願意照顧這些老農不要再找理由講說什麼財政紀律法違反財政紀律法那過去長的那兩次都是違法的囉陳水扁的時代長的時候是違法嗎馬英九時代長的時候是違法嗎為什麼農業部不願意去面對說他只要願意把它編列下去再更甚 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
9209.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
9231.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
他說這個一級二轉三加三兩個計算起來說實在以他的計算公式差了大概五十億吧但是以真正的計算方式其實應該不用五十億可能二十億、三十億那就是他不願意嘛那否則就卓院長大聲站出來就說我不願意支持公糧收購價格提高不要再講一些這個虛無縹緲的理由謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
9237.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
9238.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
主席,感謝院長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
9251.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
9256.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
的用意是什麼?就是因為我們這個政法局長（這個介紹有關了（還有我們公衆記者（這個企劃課現在有關了（以及我們的政法有點數（現在有關了（這都經過了我們立法院（大院統計的一個案其實我 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
9276.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
9280.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
當然,之前,經常遇到一些我們的農民市長,他們一直知道說,我們立法院已經通過五項這個公職人員修改的介紹,為什麼我們的行政院副委員用於什麼?因為大家在哀,哀說 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
9296.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
9302.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
整項議案、農業議案、工廠議案．誰都去,公職人員十三年就起位起來對他們來說,他們的修例堅固我們現在是希望說﹐可以透過政府單位﹐和我們這裡的辛苦的農民﹐和最基層的農民﹐讓他們有一碗飯好吃﹐未來透過國土計劃﹐再進行下去我們有關農地﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
9324.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
9324.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
國民黨黨團提議．國民黨黨團提議． |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
9339.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
9343.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
關乎大家的中心基金（我們來讓我們的農民（可以有更好的一個高中（讓他們有更好的一個修律（讓他們有辦法看到說（我們真正政府單位對他們（的真正的照顧（不要說只要依我們分的觀來說（我們就才會將近六成（的土地都是在掙扎（他們是要付這全國的（這個素材（這個入息（ |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
9367.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
9372.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
有一個提供、有一個大款（所以為什麼我們的藥金來提這個案（我們不是說我們要來表現什麼（我們是實際說（我們有夠有一個事務啊（我們要做的是什麼（是要做好人群（不是來為人送天（不是來阻礙到一切（醫生謝謝丁薛忠委員的發言（接下來張吉凱委員請發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
9394.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
9411.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
今天我們坐在這邊是因為民進黨政府違法在先不照顧該照顧的農民、原住民跟依附人員現在是誰卡住了總預算?不就是民進黨違法在先嗎?這剛好啊!這以前民進黨常常贏的啊!這送回去程序委員會啊!該補的補好啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
9421.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
9422.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
民進黨沒有一個人舉手反對欸那是113個立法院共同的決定欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
9449.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
9469.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
你現在吃西瓜不然要反省嗎?你沒有反對,你用現在反對什麼意思?地質的都要補,農業部本來不就是應該照顧最基層、最善良、最弱勢的農民嗎?那我現在變成都不站出來的,你反對嗎?你補什麼?什麼一集二?二轉三加三?農民說聽不到啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
9470.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
9477.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
而且根本就是舊的酒去裝在新瓶裏面（還是舊的酒啊!你五十幾噸都沒人給你… 農民都沒愛啊!你不要拿出來!草生的東西都拿出來!啊農民那你辛苦!十三年沒有條!政客現在說什麼?那是一分錢!沒錢!辛苦八噸!賺的錢都還不過去包一個紅白包一包! |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
9496.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
9500.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
一分多沒用半年一起做有時候還賺不到兩千塊你怎麼忍心這樣欺負農民呢第一個從法律面來講立法院過的你該編了而且有慣例啊剛剛家俊講了調過兩次了嘛美國一百年那個一公斤調高三塊錢就是立法院通過之後行政部分就編了嘛你為什麼把這個慣例要推翻掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
9525.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
9538.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
我這個民進黨真的反對不要兩手這個手法啦你們就公開出來從總統行政院長到立法院黨團講清楚你們就是覺得農民不該領這個錢十三年沒調啦為什麼不調呢工資也漲了物價也漲了軍工價都調薪調了五次了勞工的基本工資已經調了幾次了憑什麼最弱勢的農民不照顧呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
9551.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
9562.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
我這個民進黨如果繼續反對 那你們就公開出來講你們反對這個農民 姑娘說過是不能調的要不然的話 拜託一下依照立法院通過的 當初你們沒有一個人反對好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
9564.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
9586.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
趕快趕快通過這個法不是是你民進黨把預算卡住了你們趕快把它補好而且方法太多了把它補齊要把追加預算馬上就可以解決問題預算就趕快審要不然的話造成所有人民的福利跟建設停擺的不是在野黨是民進黨把預算卡住了謝謝謝謝張啟凱委員的發言紅色漢 中嘉賓委員要針對公良發言哈欠 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
9595.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
9618.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
其實針對公糧收購的價格或者是照顧農民的這個議題其實我想現在農業部是做足了非常多的準備那當然大家剛才都講到一計二轉三加三那事實上民進黨團其實也請教了很多農業界、食物界的專家確實都認為所謂公糧收購價格直接提高五塊的這個做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
9619.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
9647.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
看起來好像農民有受益可是幾乎絕大多數的專家都提醒這個做法的副作用很多為什麼行政部門或農業部對於這個做法一直存在著覺得需要再多討論的狀態就是因為擔憂到這個做法後續的副作用我們作為一個負責任的政治人物不能只看短不看長 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
9649.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
9670.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
我要再說一次一個負責任的政治人物不能只看短不看長所以這是為什麼也很多專業界的朋友告訴我們也許一級二轉三加三有可以再優化的空間如何做的可以讓農民更有感這件事情朝野可以一起來監督行政部門 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
9671.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
9680.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
但這是一個比較長期建立可長可久的機制相對是比較健康的機制我還是必須要講這是第一點第二點 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
9681.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
9710.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
我們都希望照顧農民而且都希望大力的照顧農民紅委員你請教的是專家不是農民欸欸欸對不起欸那個要發言請特定學校主席啊好請繼續紅委員請繼續我們也請教了農民也請教了專業界也請教了食物界的食物的工作者每個農民都是食物工作者我們也請教都請教了齁那大家也清楚我們是立法委員當時在立法院做成這個決議的形式其實是用一個主決議的形式 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
9711.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
9734.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
其實我們都心裡都非常清楚這個組決議的形式如果禁制要求增加預算的話這些事情跟在憲法裡面釋字264的釋字是有高度的違憲的疑慮的當初沒有意見的意思我必須說這個我們事後還是必須來回 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
9736.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
9750.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
我們事後還是必須來檢討它在法制上面的釋法性的這個層次但我就實質面來講這個決議我們並不能夠說今天只要行政部門不照著這個決議來做這些事情就叫做違法剛剛齊凱委員一直說 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
9754.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
9777.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
沒有按照當初的這個決議做就叫做違法行政部門違法我想這個敘述恐怕是有蠻大的問題所以我最後我再一次的review這個問題我們今天在這場協商很重要的關鍵是我們要一起來尋找怎麼樣子能夠讓我們的總預算往前走的共識我想這部分韓院長很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
9778.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
9804.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
所以我們在這裡面是想辦法求同存異 排除障礙 排除我們的總預算能夠往前進入到審查 包括附委我們一起來解決 把這個結給解開這是我們今天在這個地方 非常非常重要的目的所以我自己是希望 今天單案針對怎麼照顧農民的問題我們大家可以各自表述 這部分我們都尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
9805.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
9826.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
大家可以各自表述我們都尊重大家一起來尋找對農民好的方法大家一起來講我們這都尊重不用誰去否定誰但我今天要說的事情是我們還是希望在我們今天這場協商裡面我們可以回到原本的總預算的這個問題我知道這韓院長也是非常非常關注這件事情以上 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
9826.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
9835.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
謝謝我們鍾嘉賓委員發言,請好,謝謝院長,因為剛剛看到說公糧收購也是我們預算協商聽起來,要說佛羅圭這裡是代表農民,我們屏東也是農業館所以我想,來這裡能代表農民的不是在座幾位娘啦首先大家要有一個了解,對於他們,是我們台灣黨的祖母裡面的同大民族 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
9852.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9864.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
一百十五萬黨但是不是所有的農民都選中了現在選中的農民不是大家可以交公牛大家都以為是提款、公牛、收工就是在照顧農民、照顧中農錯了 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9867.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9889.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
目前有一個數字,全部高公牛的兩萬三千的,以高公牛為主的五萬五千戶,但是高牛熊的,部分高牛熊為主的五萬,全部高牛熊的十萬,所以說啊,公牛熊剛才的介紹,你說是要照顧到手的農民,不是,是照顧到農,現在是照顧到農,所以說我們看,這個建設,這幾年來做什麼結構,我們的牛是生產,牛米是貴賓的, |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9897.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9898.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
二、國民黨團提議．國民黨團提議．國民黨團提議．國民黨團提議 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9922.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9934.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
但是你說紐鄉介紹留管．有兩公聘兩角地．他們兩角地就把你請進去．埋研究時代起三課．民職請到一位．結果我們的民用．我們的紐鄉的介紹．存19課．結果做什麼問題．三個問題．第一． |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9941.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9953.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
三、外商糾結））一、立法院首項要由豬牛村內做營養午餐）大家要看得到嗎?兩、用賣的米、用好的米）第三、用人頭去糕公牛）這些東西事實上存在）大家報章顯顯的資料調查都有）所以說不要再批評事實啦）不要說首項介紹條款在照顧農民）不是,是照顧中農）照顧有辦法糕公牛的中農）這些人是接受） |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9968.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9973.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
這沒有事實所以說真的在農業關我們關那些什麼預算我們關那些是現在給各位我們的大委員動調的我們的農產水利50億的預算智商環防45億我們的農業基金29億農營用電差價補助24億 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9986.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
10001.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
所以要提醒各位你現在條件這幾項可以增加多少預算要增加一百四百兩這一百四百兩要照顧農民不好意思我們平東關我們需要治山還洪需要冷鏈需要電池的差異步驟以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
10004.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
10032.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
好,謝謝農業縣的立法委員、張家俊委員、丁學忠委員、鍾嘉斌委員跟張祺凱委員共同關心我們農民稻谷收購但是我還是要回到我們今天我們黨團協商對不起,中央政府總預算我們主旋律裡面請各位委員能夠一人發言大家表達心意好不好好,在這裡我嘗試各黨團幹部還有剛才所有原住民委員的發言我嘗試做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
10034.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
10039.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
結論就教予各位黨團幹部跟各位原住民的委員同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
10040.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
10064.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
大家有意見的話可以修正若沒有意見的話我來宣讀給大家聽聽看一、跟大家說明行政院對立法院負責這次憲法規定有關禁法補償爭議涉及已由總統名利公佈施行之法律該法律明定之法定義務之初行政院在其編列之預算案中卻沒有依法律編列的爭議 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
10066.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
10095.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
二、席內就此若沒有正式回應（這牽扯到兩院未來的互動機制和民主的運作（是知識體大三、由於我們已經協商多次（目前因為少編兩萬元（因此在這裡我們多次的黨團協商（主計長所提的解決方案（各黨團仍有不同看法由於預算案之編制依預算法及本院總預算案審查程序等相關規定必須 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
10097.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
10113.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
必須經過行政院院長、主席長還有財政部部長來立法院進行編制報告並備諮詢我們是不是應該讓行政院有一個正式回應的機會是,我們定一個時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
10115.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
10142.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
二、邀請行政院長率同財主單位來立法院進行編制情況．情形再由本院委員會進行有關諮詢．詢答完畢之後．我們再依各黨團的提議．交由院會處理．來進行本案的後續處理五、目前有一個草稿馬上發到各黨團幹部手上．請各黨團幹部來 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
10145.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
10146.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
仔細閱覽一下來念一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
10158.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
10186.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
一、竹記長所提補足原住民進法補償預算處理之解決方案本案由原民會辦理進法補償相關事宜實際執行經費若有不敷可由原住民民族綜合發展基金先行之印再於後續年度編列預算歸還動之第二預備金或追加預算等方式辦理相關預算事宜 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
10187.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
10212.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
二、各黨團同意11月1日 及11月5日 邀請行政院長、主計長、財政部長、國家發展委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告《114年度中央政府總預算案》及《中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案》 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
10214.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
10223.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
編制經過並備質詢（質詢人數由國民黨團推派16位（民進黨團推派16位（臺灣民眾黨團推派3位進行（質詢順序依例授權議事處辦理（名單請於10月31日星期四中午12點前送至議事處會診（當次會議不處理臨時提案（ |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
10241.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
10267.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
三、上開報告應就原住民進法補償、公糧收購及健保點子等預算編制情況並與報告四、有關行政院涵請審議之114年度中央政府總預算案（含附屬單位預算及綜計表．營業及非營業部分．中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第5期特別預算案．列入11月1日星期五院會報告事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
10270.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
10285.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
五、請財政委員會10月31日星期四下午5點前將總預算案審查日程及分配表送交議事處,以立11月1日星期五院會之報告以上,協商結論這5點前,各黨團幹部有沒有寶貴意見請發言一、首先請吳思瑤幹事長發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
10291.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
10315.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
謝謝院長試圖來做總預算的解決方案來提出一些結論但是既然是協商結論我們要非常慎重因為這都會攸關我們是不是在一個正確的處理程序以及對於立委對審議預算期間或者是修法期間那行使的這個預算審議權是不是有過當來嚴重侵害到行政權的問題都要一併處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
10321.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
10334.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
我先跟院長講兩件事我先從您的第二大點裡頭就是舊程序面來講如果說各黨同意要進行安排進入預算的質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
10337.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
10361.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
以往例,您的時間應當是11月1日、5日當然時間大家可以來討論要各部會來,您這邊我們這次有四個預算案但是有三個預算案要報告一個是總預算,一個是前瞻建設然後其實還有一個台電的追加預算所以本黨從第一次這個會期的第一次協商我們就希望是三個預算案都能夠排時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
10362.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
10389.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
這是第一件事情當然如果院長覺得說我們要總預算加前瞻先來這我們大家來談但是以往例過去每一次在開議預算會期在協商決定總預算報告的時程以及附委審查的時程應當都會在報告時間定下來之後也會很清楚的來明定各黨的發言人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
10390.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
10407.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
以及關鍵字在這裡（尋答結束交付審查（各黨團同意不提出複議（這個不是我今天提出來（這是例次每一次預算會期進行預算的報告案 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
10408.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
10429.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
必然的程序這是過去以來的程序沒有變過換言之今天是不是請求院長第二點的部分如果要具體排入這個預算的審查期程第一個我們還是希望爭取台電追加減的預算因為這一次是三個預算案一次要報告要把它放進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
10430.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
10454.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
二、巡達結束後．復委交付審查．各黨團不再提復議．這是必然的回過頭來也要徵得院長的理解跟說明其實針對今天決定事項的第一項主計長所提針對禁法補償的這件事情的解決方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
10456.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
10459.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
主要是來自於對於《憲法》、《預算法》、《財政紀律法》、《財化法》相關規定的認知不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
10477.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
10500.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
但是立法委員也要依法行政韓國瑜院長領導的立法院也要依法來進行所以說是不是能夠在第一項裡頭也應當把行政部門非常在意也是多次的提出來的就是立法委員所提法律案大幅增加稅出或減少稅入者應先徵詢行政機關意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
10503.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
10519.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
並指明彌補資金來源．因此行政立法基於互相尊重．我們共同來補正建行上開的必要程序我覺得有這個前提．然後才會有針對原住民進法補償．這個新年度114年怎麼邊轉 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
10521.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
10521.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
10537.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
10537.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
10558.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
10582.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
預算解決的方案那第二點希望循過去的往例謝謝院長協助讓總預算如果能夠進入排審、循答那他必然也會在循答結束後交付委員會審查各黨團不再提復議這個是必要的程序謝謝民進黨團幹事長吳思堯的發言接下來我們請國民黨團林思堯署長請發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
10586.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
10594.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
林士明署長請發言謝謝院長對於這個協商結論我們針對第一點第一點對於主席長的意見雖然寫在第一點但是實際上我們各黨團認為達成協商的一個共識所以我們希望在第一點的最後加上幾個文字就是說各黨團尚無共識這是第一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
10612.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
10616.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
第二點對於11月1日和11月5日邀請院長來做預算編制的報告基本上我們是沒有意見推派人數也沒有意見,諮詢順序由授權議事處辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
10633.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
10636.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
但是我們對於說該不是要幹事長講說要把台電的預算一併來納入這個部分我想因為我們是不同意我想這個是兩回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
10645.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
10657.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
另外所不得再提附議,我想這部分也是我們愛南接受的。我們還沒有達成共識,還沒有達成共識,我們還沒有達成共識,那是說,選答完畢之後,當然我們沒有所謂的就直接交付審查的問題, |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
10669.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
10694.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
我想我們還是要經過我們聽了我們行政院長對預算編制的情形之後那我們再來決定是不是還要交付委員會來審查那其他就這個其他幾個事項我想大概我們是沒有什麼意見的所以我就是做這樣的表示以上謝謝好請台灣民眾黨發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
10699.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
10725.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
謝謝院長理解院長希望事情往前推進的苦心只是我剛剛看到那個書面剛剛院長在台上其實我覺得念了一段蠻鄭重的文字對於到目前為止所為什麼發生這些爭議您算是一個蠻中立的立場所做的一個客觀的描述那個客觀的描述是不是也應該把它放在前面 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
10727.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
10751.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
因為可能在不同的黨團在這件事情上面的看法完全不一樣民進黨黨團站在的是行政院的立場但立法院我們站的立場是立法院的立場什麼是立法院的立場今天又走到這一步事情的根源要講清楚就是行政院沒有依法編列預算嘛事情就這麼簡單 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
10754.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
10779.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
禁法補償條例是不是現在三讀有效通過的法律?是啊這個是一個客觀的法秩序行政院沒有依法編列預算要立法院怎麼進入實質的審議程序這才是問題的根源第二個部分是院長的苦心心要往前推進先請他來報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
10781.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
10809.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
報告你這個預算到底是怎麼編的嗎?特別是針對禁法補償、公糧收購還有健保點子嗎?這一定要給立法院一個清楚的回應所以我基本上就是說對於院長希望往前推進這件事情我了解你的苦心所以我也不願意再添加太多的前提讓你推進的苦心越來越困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
10811.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
10826.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
對那不過我覺得你前面齁剛剛在台上我相信你應該是有準備一個正式的稿子啦你所做的那個宣告我覺得如果合宜的話也可以把它放在協商的結論文字當中OK民進黨團請二人發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
10836.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10836.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
林蔡書記長好謝謝院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10842.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10866.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
那針對剛剛院長所裁示的這一個是你的協商結論那剛剛事實上國民黨有希望加注那這個民眾黨黃總召也有說有希望文字那我們民進黨所堅持的就是國家不管是行政、立法他在編列財政的時候財政紀律是一個很重要的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10866.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10882.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
所以我們還是希望．可以加注說．未來立法委員所提的法案．它大幅增加稅出或減少收入者．應先徵詢行政機關意見．並指明資金來源．行政立法互相尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10883.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10909.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
然後我們可以共同來補正進行上開的必要程序這個是我們堅持可以在第一段裡面也加入民進黨團有這樣的一個立場因為國民黨剛剛有說各黨團尚無共識所以如果國民黨要加這樣的文字那把民進黨的這個文字放在第一段那應該也沒有關係否則我還有第二個建議就是說因為我們第三段就有講到 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10909.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10928.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
上開報告應就原住民進法補償、公糧收購及健保點子等預算編制處理情形並與報告那既然第三段已經講到了要並與報告那我們是不是在這個協商結論我們就不用第一段我們直接就把第二段 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10929.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10952.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
當作是我們大家共同要讓總預算可以往前一步的一個初步的一個共識但是就這一個院長所排定的這樣的一個日期我們還是希望國民黨可以說至少在我們這個地方可以口頭上就好可以說同意說我們審查後讓他交付委員會審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10955.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10964.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
要放文字否則我覺得打開天窗說亮話你們這樣只是做了讓大家去推派然後去做質詢之後那你們繼續去不讓它復違這樣也還是騙人的我們總預算還是會卡住所以我覺得至少在這個地方我們還是希望國民黨、民眾黨你們可以把 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10978.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10991.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
讓他交付委員會這件事情（也把它並入文字裡面（作為協商結論（那讓我們至少有信心（我們接下來（可以好好的來進行我們明年度的總預算的審查了（謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10995.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10999.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
好 謝謝謝謝院長用心良苦希望在我們現在其實焦灼滿久而且民進黨團也一直在強調說要趕快能夠有一些進程能進入審查所做的努力在這邊先感謝院長至於就是在文字的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
11022.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
11037.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
現在看起來其實如果大家基本的共識都是希望讓我們中央政府總預算的審查能夠往前一步的話那我必須講大家就不要在文字上還要想來佔一點點便宜或者說我們口頭來承諾說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
11047.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
11048.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
11072.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
11078.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
所以基本上在國民黨團來說的話其實剛才呼應一下剛才黃總召所說的就是剛才院長所講的文字我覺得我們可以把它放到我們最後的這個協商結論裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
11089.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
11095.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
這就是第一段的部分我覺得大家是可以來做一些商量因為目前確實他並沒有什麼樣的共識但是在這邊我們還是會比較堅持就是大家願意共進一步因為事實上以目前來說確實行政院並沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
11110.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
11123.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
提出一個合理（而且讓我們原住民（朋友或者是農民（跟醫護人員安心的一個解決的方案（那在這樣的狀況之下（那麼我們願意讓行政院院長團隊（能夠再來做一些報告（就是也是有一些補考的機會（然後大家再來做溝通協商（ |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
11135.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
11151.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
所以這都是在野黨其實都已經釋出最高最高的善意其實老師說了包含剛才我們三位的這個這個包含我們嘉峻委員、學中委員還有那個齊凱委員所提的 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
11153.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
11156.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
老實講啊那個蔡書記長其實當時你在選舉的政見我不曉得你是不是忘記你選舉公報的政見其實我們這幾位委員也是實踐 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
11168.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
11170.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
當時你在選舉公報裏的政見所以我們很希望的是能夠讓整個的這個進程往前走一些但是我們仍然有一些原則的問題我們再給行政院一些時間我們這樣是可以齊頭並行 對不對這樣齊頭並行這就是院長的用心良苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
11191.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
11195.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
我們一直交錯在這邊,我們在一直開會,然後大家各說各話那其實完全也不符合民進黨團的想法嘛,不是一直希望說我們能進入報告,能進入審查如果今天的報告,我們經過報告之後,有助於這個審查的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
11211.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
11217.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
自然就會往前走啦不要對自己這樣的沒有信心啦不要對行政院這麼樣沒有信心所以基本上我覺得剛才所提到的一些協商結論大體上我們都是支持的那我們也希望民進黨團說到做到既然希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
11231.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
11231.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
基本上﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
11255.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
11279.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
我臺灣民眾黨團體會到院長的苦心你需要往前邁進嘛先讓他來報告嘛說清楚那三件事情到底要怎麼處理嘛那往前邁進少一點其他的要件我們基本上都尊重院長在這個範圍裡面一個裁決的空間那其他的話我就先不要再講了 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
11284.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
11300.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
現在各黨團已經二輪發言完畢我知道,但是我誠懇的建議大家都可以感覺到我用心良苦對不對我們針對這個協商結論同意簽字還是不同意簽字我這裡有 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
11301.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
11316.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
同意簽字簽字我們就這樣的處理不同意簽字我們要約約還有最後的發言也許大家越來越接近了我提醒一下嘛就大家還是聚焦在這裡那不管是其他就暫時好請吳思瑤委員三次發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
11317.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
11319.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
第一點乾脆都不要寫了第一點乾脆都不要寫了 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
11340.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
11345.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
然後第二點呢（針對時程的部分（我要再次強調（過去歷次在協商總預算的 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
11353.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
11359.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
有關公職人員選舉法部分條文修正草案．公職人員選舉法部分條文修正草案．公職人員選舉法部分條文修正草案．公職人員選舉法部分條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
11381.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
11394.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
報告完畢（然後交付審查（然後各黨同意不提附議（沒關係（這個東西（我也同意往前推一步（先進行報告（也沒有關係關係（但是（大家不要忘了（社會都在看（如果（大家希望能夠（真的讓它推進（就是後續（不要再卡審查的時間（不落文字（我也（我們也可以勉強接受（但是（ |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
11410.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
11439.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
但是不要用這種話術我們希望大家是真心推進就是真的推進而不是先進行詢答之後在野黨的委員繼續卡預算不讓他交付審查大家君子我們的前提我們認為報告完依過去的慣例就是會交付審查所以如果未來在野黨委員在那個報告完之後還黨我希望不要發生這樣的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
11440.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
11464.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
所以這是我們最終大家compromise我們都希望總預算不要再擋的這個前提那針對禁法補償如果要落第一段的文字那我們有我們堅持的就是這不是誰的政黨意見這是國家應當捍衛的憲政精神所以對於禁法補償的處理跟這個前提大家如果沒有共識那第一點可以不要寫我們今天就是讓總預算前進 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
11466.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
11480.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
然後後面有個向開報告就這幾項事情的編傳情形就是第三點確實是可以在報告當中請行政部門再說服他們的各個方案說服給在野黨的委員聽我們也認同這是我們真的覺得誠心誠意就是交付總預算的諮詢然後希望未來順利的交付審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
11491.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
11507.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
那一位剛剛有點到蔡易瑜委員我覺得這是人家的這個個人生意的問題那剛剛有點名 紅衛委員有攻擊到他 讓他回應一下嘛我主席來做決定嘛好不好各位黨團幹部有兩點報告第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
11507.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
11521.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
等下針對我們中央政府總預算．行政院長．帥柴族單位來報告完畢之後．我們立法院處理的情況．我們會請高處長講一、兩個．我們過去發生的．真實的一個案例．第二,蔡議員．蔡書記長提出權宜問題．我要徵詢國民黨跟臺灣民眾黨團．他說,請 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
11526.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
11549.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
他剛剛是直接點名我,希望我回應啊沒有沒有沒有,我想再補充一下,因為剛才施堯他對地點有意見沒有,大家現在就直接講一講啦,我們也不再休想講了我簡單回應一下沒有,我們先讓他發言啊我知道我知道,大家都有很多話要講 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
11552.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
11579.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
第一點我是覺得說留著也無妨第一點留著無妨就是說第一點是主席長他的意見主席長的意見我覺得我們還是要把他顯示出來這是我們在整個協商過程中主席長講的意見所以第一點你要希望保留對 因為各黨團沒有達成共識我們就是這個據實把它顯示出來所以這一點我是覺得沒有必要拿掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
11581.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
11582.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
黃國昌總統舉手請三次發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
11588.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
11607.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
因為我覺得院長就大家規則講好就講好就三個黨團的流發言不要有哪一個黨團有其他奇奇怪怪的特權那我再肯定一次院長希望往前推進的苦心那只是在詮釋上面的時候民進黨黨團的詮釋剛剛他們的黨團代表有說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
11612.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
11634.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
我們的詮釋是什麼我們的詮釋是行政院院長你好好的來報告報告你這個總預算怎麼會編成這個樣子三讀通過的法律你為什麼沒有編預算我希望聽行政院院長親自來跟全國人民解釋他把立法院三讀通過的東西當什麼所以不要再說在野黨在卡預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
11636.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
11642.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
這卡預算的是誰?這卡預算的是卓榮泰啊!為什麼我說卓榮泰在卡預算?你沒有依法編列預算嘛! |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
11645.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
11673.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
我希望不要發生這樣子的事情我真的希望不要發生這樣的事情請卓永泰好好地編預算你好好的編預算 立法院就好好審這有什麼問題呢解零還需細零人嘛對不對民進黨可以有民進黨的解釋有他們的立場各個黨團都有各個黨團的立場每個人一次輪流發言很公平誰也不用有特權以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
11673.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
11674.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
好 我們休息十分鐘 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
12032.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
12059.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
謝謝各位黨團幹部請坐好嗎來我們因為這個謝謝啊現在已經時間很晚了進行將近三個小時了那現在我們把立法院黨團協商結論今天整個協商結論從五條刪除第一條濃縮成四條在各位的手上我想我就不再念了因為都已經在手上大家已經念過了大家如果沒有意見我們現在就來簽字好嗎好 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
12061.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
12075.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
我來簽字也請各黨團幹部我們一起來簽字好嗎好另外一點這個選罷法的因為時間的關係我們就擇期再議好請大家簽字 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
12080.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
12094.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
如果各位黨團幹部都同意簽字之後我們今天會議我們特別謝謝主席長還有各位列席的官員非常感謝你們今天下午寶貴的一個下午也謝謝各位黨團幹部那我們就散會 |
| IVOD_ID |
16210 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16210 |
| 日期 |
2024-10-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
黨團協商-2024102370 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
黨團協商 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院朝野黨團協商 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-10-24T14:30:14+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-10-24T17:54:00+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |