| IVOD_ID |
162022 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162022 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-28 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-15-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第22次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
22 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期內政委員會第22次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-28T10:56:40+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-28T11:05:24+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:08:44 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/75aba70f567c6f24c8937d00a3b85f90d126c33bcaff1fd1a3426710e0a50eed5ac28ab4a5ca17635ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
牛煦庭 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:56:40 - 11:05:24 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-28T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：處理114年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算解凍案。） |
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謝謝主席 共秘書長有請好 請秘書長秘書長早安先跟你討論一下預算的事情因為地方制度法69條1項怎麼寫的我可能要查一下法條的條文趕快 趕快 活力支援一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
35.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
54.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
地制法第六條的規定是各上級政府為謀地方均衡發展對於財力較差的地方政府應佐予補助所以這就是為什麼大家都會講所謂的一般性補助款是屬於法定義務支出的原因因為法定義務支出你怎麼去算就是有明確的法源講你應該要做什麼對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
56.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
66.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
那你現在因為立法院的決議你要統三對不對然後你就說現在我們要拿一般性補助款來開檔這個是你們花了多長時間整理出來的最佳結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
68.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
88.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
授權統三就是你們要自己自行尊潔的概念嘛以往不管是國會的結構長什麼樣子誰執政誰在野都一樣所謂的授權統三不管金額大小其實就是以尊潔總開支作為核心戰略目標但是不希望傷筋動骨所以讓行政機關有一個調整的空間對不對這是我認知統三的意義嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
89.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
108.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
這次金額很大所以我今天要問你嘛金額很大是一個客觀的問題這我們不反對但問題是你金額很大的時候你也有很多種方式可以來處理嘛請問你們整個行政院院本部針對這個桶山這個燙手山芋你們提出了幾種方案你們跟大家說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
109.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
128.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
八號委員我們當初第一個時間就提出說事實上他是真的是自愛難行所以為什麼提出復議我們就希望說立法院可以重新再思考這樣的問題如果在復議這個部分可以做處理的話我今天不是在問你提出了什麼救濟手段你一定想最差嘛就是說如果復議被立法院否決你還是要面對這件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
129.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
144.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
但六百多億的那種三法你可以把所有各式各樣的統統統一遵截3%這是不是一種方法你可以盤點政府的各項計畫有哪些大型的專案晚兩年實施這兩年預算就遵截掉你是不是就可以遵截掉一大筆大筆的方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
145.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
169.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
你是不是也可以思考也許部分的計劃型補助款重新思考分配的額度我的意思是講統三這件事情其實你從行政機關的角度你本來就有很多的調度空間你說今天所有東西齊頭式是不是只要減3%不到大家結一說實是不是也是一種方法那我就問嘛你行政院到底想出了幾種方法然後最後為什麼決定是砍一般型補助款請你給大家一個清楚的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
170.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
193.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
報告委員我想因為我們中央總預算送到立法院後來的提案是好幾千個案子那每一個案子都是有針對性的這個來做刪或動那這麼幾千個案子處理下情況之下就是要刪掉三百多億對啊我今天沒有在問你這個三百多億我問你六百多億嘛因為統算是六百多億嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
196.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
205.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
經過這麼嚴格的審查完以後表示說其他的部分都有必要而且應該要去做包括國防什麼我們沒有辦法去處理這樣的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
208.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
236.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
所以說老實話以我們來講也是非常的無奈你的意思是說各方面都是其他一毛都不能尊潔你行政院想做的是一毛都不能尊潔但地方都可以尊潔你意思是這樣嗎如果這個金額事實上是我們可以調控的話那當然沒有問題但是這個金額實在是太大了六百多億所以我才問嘛你們在內部討論的時候有幾種方案嘛你有沒有討論過幾種方案還是根本從頭到尾就沒有方案你第一時間就直接想到一般性補助管你把他幹掉就算了我們今天想釐清的是這件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
237.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
261.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
當然是就是說最後我們還是要依照這個三讀的決議嘛你不要跟我跳針啊你到底有沒有別的方案嘛你有沒有討論過別的方案主席總署會說原理我不曉得他們有沒有想了很多案子但是跟行政院來討論的覺得這個還是不是最好的方法但是總是一個方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
265.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
276.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
報告委員就是說依照立法院審議刪減的數字就是總共要刪減2075億那這部分來講的話中央各機關其實已經大幅刪減了1439億那剩下636億這部分我們要再去立法院請我們自行刪減那我們在考慮的過程當中就考慮到說這裡面有 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
288.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
305.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
一些公共建設科技發展還有法律支出這些東西可能都必須要國防這些東西都必須要我講的是人事費那些東西啦那都必須要比較沒有再三減的空間所以就剩下機關專項的計畫跟基本運作的經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
307.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
332.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那這一部分如果在扣掉國防以外其實剛剛提過各機關要刪那個1439億裡面在這裡面他們其實已經被大幅刪減了18.5億如果這636億再分攤到這個科目來講各機關的基本運作經費可能就必須要大幅刪減到29%左右所以說考量到這一些因素以外所以說因為一般性補助款也是我們總預算的一環 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
333.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
351.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那補助款的概念就是中央在財政上有多少的餘裕然後我們看主要補助地方多少所以當初考量的部分就是說這一部分是只剩下這一部分有調印的一個空間所以說就去調整這個刪減這個一般性補助款以上說明我跟你講你現在做這樣子的一個政治決定對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
352.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
375.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
破壞的基本上是中央政府跟地方政府之間的互信關係嘛那是飲鴆止渴的一個概念嘛如果今天你真的講說很困難所以中央的部分做出了若干的尊潔實在暈不出來地方尊潔但受傷程度小一點你也經過了比較完整的權衡比如說相對財政弱勢的縣市政府我的補助三的比例比較少而不是一刀齊頭式的砍那今天正義不會這麼大 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
377.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
404.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
但今天你整個呈現出來端出來的菜就是非常粗糙嘛我今天就挑一個項目為了湊足六百多億我就一刀切也不管各個地方的發展需要也不管縣市政府的一個狀況跟努力你就這樣一刀切這真的是一個好的通商的模式嗎這當然人民自有公平啦大家後面這個題目還有的草大家就看著辦吧另外待會我們要討論預算解凍案你這個公民署長你上次我們凍結最大的理由就是因為你上次不來備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
404.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
425.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那剛剛你回答徐宇甄委員的時候你講說你都有說明嘛在這個地方我把他調出來看但你這個說明裡面你沒有講實話啊因為那個說明裡面第一個你有承認你明明就知道兩點過後延長開會時間嘛所以他會議恢復正常進行你自己也有回到現場對不對但你回到現場的時候因為趙委員不在你就跑了 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
426.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
444.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
然後你說大家都走了大家沒有走啊你好幾個處長當初還坐在下面本席那時候還一個一個點名稱讚表示他們很尊重立法院可是後來為什麼他們也走了這一段你要不要交代一下當初的確是會議的狀態其實不是那麼明確那沒有明確對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
447.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
472.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
會議狀態明不明確應該不是由你們來認定吧應該是立法院的委員會做決議來確定的對不對延長開會動議的時間延長開會時間動議通過他就延長開會時間到討論事項處理完畢為止所以這個會議是非常清楚的議事人員都可以作證不是由你們來認定的吧因為兩點的時候螢幕上打出來是說會議上會開始後來改過來因為當初在確認延長開會動議有沒有通過嘛結論是有通過啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
474.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
491.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
真的到後來要請你回來的時候已經是傍晚了你這三四個小時都可以因為兩點那個三分鐘沒有及時更新你就可以擺爛這樣不太對吧更重要你還沒回答我問題啊就是說為什麼那些你下面本來處長都回來都準備要備詢準備要詢答了結果現在他們突然走了呢是你的指示嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
491.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
506.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
沒有我沒有指示他們那他們為什麼突然離開還是他們也跟著你一樣看你不在大家就不在因為會議的狀況不明我就先離開了那後面確實有很多人講因為你收到奇怪的LINE有人傳訊息叫你可以回家你就回家了是吧沒有啦沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
506.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
521.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
沒有啦 那你為什麼不來備詢呢你如果要來備詢 搞不好五一根都不會凍結嘛可是你今天回答的時候報告也寫得不清楚 對不對你也沒有好好的針對這個問題來進行回答那怎麼解凍呢 對不對你自己思考一下 我們待會還有時間討論好不好好 謝謝 辛苦了 |