| IVOD_ID |
162008 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/162008 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-28 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-20-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
14 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-28T11:36:32+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-28T11:49:50+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:18 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/75aba70f567c6f248067d98ef1b119f3afe3e41e2f2b0d3087f2bf784d93fc303c5bd6785be991ac5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
李坤城 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:36:32 - 11:49:50 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-28T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「國際金融業務條例」8案：
(一) 本院委員沈發惠等18人、委員鍾佳濱等17人分別擬具「國際金融業務條例第十三條、第二十二條之七及第二十二條之十六條文修正草案」等2案。
(二) 行政院函請審議、本院委員李坤城等20人、委員陳菁徽等16人、委員郭國文等19人、委員羅廷瑋等17人、委員陳玉珍等16人分別擬具「國際金融業務條例第二十二條之十六條文修正草案」等6案。【本院委員陳玉珍等16人提案如經院會復議，本次會議不予審查】
二、審查「證券投資人及期貨交易人保護法」9案：
(一) 行政院函請審議、本院委員鍾佳濱等20人、委員李坤城等19人、委員沈發惠等18人分別擬具「證券投資人及期貨交易人保護法部分條文修正草案」等4案。
(二) 本院委員林楚茵等17人、委員王鴻薇等19人、委員郭國文等18人、委員賴士葆等32人分別擬具「證券投資人及期貨交易人保護法第十條之一條文修正草案」等4案。【本院委員賴士葆等32人提案如經院會復議，本次會議不予審查】
(三) 本院委員林思銘等18人擬具「證券投資人及期貨交易人保護法第十條之一及第二十條條文修正草案」案。【本案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書】
【5月28日及29日二天一次會】） |
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主委好 這個上禮拜有關這個融資公司法的一個公聽會那與會學者專家當然有持正面的有持這個負面的 也不是負面啦就是說要立專法有不立專法都有但是與會的這個我們的立委同仁大概都是一致希望說能夠還是立專法啦那可是上禮拜是我們副主委過來那副主委他講得很清楚他就說不立專法我們就用金保法來規範這個融資助理公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
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那是不是我們金管會的態度就是我們先不立專法了就用金保法來規範是那個謝謝委員那個雖然上次沒有來啦我想他們傳達的意思大概就是我想趁這個機會簡短說一下立專法不是那個副主委的意思應該就是你的意思嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
47.336 |
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是是喔?那就是不立專法就對了不是不是我先跟委員講說其實很多人把專法就視為是一部獨立的法律叫專法但實際上立這種法律的目的是要來解決問題那假設說我們已經可以用這樣的一個法律的規範就可以解決這個問題的話我們是更簡便的立法我也講就是說那所以主委是說用金保法就可以來 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
74.67 |
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89.377 |
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處理目前的租賃公司的一些亂象就對了大部分的剛剛講是消費者爭議的部分我想這部分而且我再三強調很多人說這個監管不利各位想想看我們一般人認為我們金融機構的管理嚴不嚴 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
90.951 |
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118.62 |
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應該很嚴吧再來我們是把融資公司指定為是這個所謂我們管理的機構以後它除了金融管理的那一套要還要再加上我們針對特別融資公司的這些的規範所以我們也歡迎各界就是說假設你們所關心的消費者保護哪裡不夠我們現在法規還在預告程序中把那個比如說哪裡消費者保護我看有一些學者專家還是認為說如果光靠金保法還是不夠啊對 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
119.44 |
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139.042 |
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他那個講的不夠的意思就是說比如說這是一個很現實的問題他要把所有的融資公司的行為全部都要把他納管各位想我們台灣沒有一個專業的像比如日本的貸金公司我們是很多的公司他只做了這個貸款就會被納管那個加速連邊界都搞不清楚對不對到底誰是 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
140.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
163.755 |
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我們市場上看不到有一家公司叫融資公司專門只做融資的公司就是沒有所以我說其實我們要非常非常清楚的知道說我們這個專法到底要規範誰而不是為了專法而專法當然不是為了專法而專法啦大家覺得說專法能夠管的大概廣度跟密度都會比用這個金寶法 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
165.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
188.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那現在就是說那個金管會的態度就是說我們就先不立專法我們就先用新保法來做處理就對了然後分三階段來納管那我們想說第一個假設金管會主政B獎假設說按照一般專法的概念把那個所謂的號稱幾千家的公司全部納管我想這個很多人也提到在場我也聽很多學者講說未來監理的量能 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
189.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
214.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
你做得到嗎?再來就是你把這些全部把那些只要兼做到這個業務的人全部把他納管以管銀行的態度去管他你覺得他們大家很擔心他們也提到日本雖然他們一直舉貸金業法但是日本做了以後呢其實上有很多很多的問題啊所以我的意思是說這要審慎的思考但是我們很務實的在還沒有立專法之前金管會非常負責任的就認為我們可以來著力的趕快來著力那你現在不是還在請這個銀行公會在在這個討論說是不是要立專法 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
218.556 |
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247.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那是因為上次委理有要求我們要那他們的那他們的草案出來了嗎沒有他們的草案還在調整中然後我看他們應該就不用了吧因為你的態度已經確定了啊我覺得齁我覺得所謂的專法的概念大家不要執著於一部什麼叫法律我們重點是要把問題解決而且我們現在立即可行而且都還沒有做就批評說這個做不到雖然沒有這個融資公司的專法但是在金保法都已經要把這個融資公司所要這個專法所要管的東西都把它納進去了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
248.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
263.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
就是大家所關心的消費爭議的部分我覺得大家都可以在這公聽的時候你可以把你覺得哪裡不夠比如說剛剛講我們在過去看很多個案上面的問題其實上已經都已經被我們放在裡面而且都法律上是好那我就明確問那這樣子聽起來就 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
265.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
282.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
應該是今年就不會提專法就對了我覺得今年我們會先以那個金融消保法先來做我必須講假設以金管會的監理能量不可能再管這個幾千家的公司這個全世界沒有人這樣做的那主委態度就很清楚啦那我只是再舉齁這個監察院齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
284.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
306.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
他們四月份有個糾正案,不過他是糾正財政部的他就說他一直可以放款供公共銀行要放款給這些融資公司他是糾正財政部不過他最後也是有提到啦他希望說行政院確實評估訂定融資租賃公司的專法還有指定業務主管機關的可行性那當然這是監察院的糾正案裡面的裡面有提到啦供你們參考不過我看這個主委態度已經很明確啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
307.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
327.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那再跟我們講其實過去二三十年來當然大家都支持專法只是當時沒有想到可以用金保法來解決所以當然這個觀念在轉換的過程當中大家當然覺得說奇怪那為什麼金保法當初也不是要來管這個融資公司的啊當然但是各位想想看金保法是以金融業的標準喔現在我們講說他們現在是沒有管理假設 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
328.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
349.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
融資公司是以金融業的管理的規格來管理各位是不是覺得比較放心我是覺得大家仔細思考一下這個內容既然金管會態度有這麼明確了那我們就看分三階段第一階段上市的第二階段就是大概是有一千家左右吧然後大概可以這樣子大概管的家屬大概有幾成呢我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
351.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
371.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我們接下來第二階段會把金融機構轉投資的大概15家放進來接下來我們現在台北市租賃公會的我們會陸續把他納管那大概可以管到幾成?應該會差不多40家左右40家左右那全部所管的大概就40家左右其實我們講說他必須要先在公會我們才知道他的標的他沒有在公會就管不到了不是 比如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
371.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
393.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
不是管不到我們其他還有民法刑法還有一大堆消費者保護法在管理好像不是說這些無法可管只是沒有所謂的一部法律的管理就像你現在放高利貸民法還可以處理刑法還可以做並不是沒人管好那我現在就比較清楚知道那個主委的態度那剛才很多那個我們同仁有問到這個主學基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
394.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
416.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那是不是可以用這個發行這個公債來投資那我看這個主委昨天接受這個跟媒體查詢也提到說這個受險業的投資能夠改善資產負債的不匹配的問題所以你也蠻支持就是說主學基金可以用發行公債的方式來收受裁員那受險業 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
417.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
445.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
也有這個意願那如此呢就可以不用去買其他國家的公債也可以擴大對台幣投資也可以降低這個資產負債不匹配的狀況那我想請問一下那你怎麼吸引受險業來參加受險業他還是有固定的收益啊但是主權基金不一定喔沒有就是等於說我剛才講因為受險業的資金是有成本的就跟銀行的放款他是有成本的他有要給那個比如說存款人的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
446.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
468.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
利息還有它存放比的問題那壹樣授權公司它也一樣就是說假設我們看世界上主要這些保險大國他們在經營的時候呢通常比如像美國他們大部分的那個他們的授權公司的資產都會放在公債上面還有就是所謂的長期的公司債為什麼這麼做因為很簡單啊在台灣的比例很低啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
468.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
493.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
因為台灣主要我們債券市場規模沒有那麼大所以這是一個問題所以我們才會講說其實受險業一直希望在台灣能夠找到期間長 獲利穩定而且安全性高能夠跟他負債做匹配那主權基金有符合你剛才講這三個特性嗎這要看未來發行的條件那未來發行的什麼樣條件可以符合這三個你講的因為我們要吸引受險人回來台灣投資嘛對 當然就是剛才講說第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
494.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
513.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
比如說他的報酬率要能夠超過他自己的成本嘛那這部分我覺得這個就是我們未來要看而且其實台灣需要有這個長期穩定投資其實不只有壽險業我們很多我們自己的四大基金也有這個問題啊那你希望壽險業回來台灣投資主權基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
514.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
539.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我當然是鼓勵他們做因為為什麼就像我們最近大概在討論這些匯率利率的問題其實一個很很根本的原因就是說為什麼我們的台灣的台幣的負債沒辦法找到台幣的資產來做個對應如果這個對應就像比如美國他們賣美元保單投美元資產他就不會有匯率的問題對一樣可以維持穩定匯率日本的公司也是買他們自己的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
540.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
567.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
固定收益的商品他也就不會有匯率的問題那台灣因為資金多但是投資工具少所以過去長年以來就形成這個結果我們當然希望說有這個管道能夠逐步的扭轉這樣的趨勢對我們售險業的長治久安還是很重要的好那剛剛提到順著主委的話講就是最近台幣一直升值升到快29塊了然後所以呢售險業面臨六月資本市主率的難關那剛剛同仁有問過我再問一下售險官員 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
567.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
583.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
有建議說這個今年的這個資本市主力RBC它的填報仿造股票採半年日均價的概念匯率也採半年的日均價那主委的態度咧我剛也講過了日均價這個不是獨厚誰他本來就是一個中性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
584.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
604.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
比如在往下滑的時候你會感覺那個日均價對你有利但往上走的時候你就會覺得對你不利這本來就是一個就是但是唯一的差別就是說看單點跟看均價的概念是你是看長期還是看短期你看即時還是看趨勢RBC是用來衡量長期穩定經營的所以過去我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
605.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
625.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
股價的時候我們是用均價所以剛才講工會提這個問題尤其面對這樣一個波動的情況之下我們正在考慮這件事情所以也會接受他們的建議就是匯率才有均價的方式就對了對 這個部分我們在考慮要有數值上面的分析的影響我們會朝這個方向來思考都傾向支持就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
628.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
637.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那我最後再問一下如果台幣繼續升值的話這個會不會影響到說明年我們順利接軌這個新一代欠產能力的制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
638.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
663.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我想任何一個波動因為這是隨時要變動我們在就是因為剛好就剩下半年的時間我們當然往前看的話我們當然希望能夠平穩的過渡當然我們會盡量的朝這個方向對我就說了如果說台幣如果再繼續再升值我看這大概會是一個趨勢會不會影響這個我不敢預期本來台幣未來的波動本來就很大那如果說是繼續升值的這個方向來講的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
667.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
683.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這個部分我們就要看情況但是我們的制度是有期限的比如說我們的RBC到今年12月30號就會退場了就會成為歷史了這個退場之後我們未來看的指標是什麼新的我們所謂的新一代清償能力就是我們簡稱市場講TWICS |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
685.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
702.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
對 那我是指標啊你本來是不是看是我們是那個RBC嘛我們是看淨值嘛然後看這一個RBC不能低於200淨值不能低於2級低於3%嘛這是要求這個保險業你要有這個清償的能力那我再看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
703.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
720.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這個去年年底的這個就這個財報來看的話有兩家公司啦一家是三商美邦RBC才136.3那另外一家是新售是221那這兩家如果在六月份都還沒辦法達標勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
721.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
745.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
原則上我們是這樣我們制度的銜接我們是看長遠我打個比方假如說明年呢等於說你現在你要承接你現在有自備款我才會給你寬容給你貸款才逐年還所以要滿足一個自備款的要件就是舊的制度你要符合這個規定這是法律的規定我是說那有給他們喘息的空間嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
746.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
773.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
沒有 這個就是我們為了看整個的波動情形我剛才講過市場的管理 穩定為先因為我們要看長我說 我已經講過很多次最近這個匯率跟利率呢 都是特別是匯率 都是一個所謂的波動會計上面的評價而不是真的保險公司真的把錢拿回來那是財報上顯示的啦因為保險局 王局長有提到說給他們喘息到九月有這個 deadline 嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
773.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
788.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
這就要看那情況我們會針對這個半年我們應該怎麼樣讓它順利過渡正在思考這個問題好 以上先就教到如此謝謝謝謝李崑禎委員麻煩請李燕秀委員謝謝好 謝謝主委謝謝主席是不是請 |