| IVOD_ID |
16196 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16196 |
| 日期 |
2024-10-23 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-23-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第2會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-10-23T08:32:01+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-10-23T13:55:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
05:22:59 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/f826c2e4afc302dd910ea1e62573b11e4f06006d1739c8706059d4d42a7fce2132510a495b97b3a65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-10-23T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長杜微及文化部就「臺鐵如何精進服務品質、落實轉型治理、加速資產活化、強化文資保存及提升鐵道美學與功能」進行專題報告，並備質詢。二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就「我國軌道建設執行概況」進行專題報告，並備質詢。三、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男、數位發展部資通安全署署長及國防部就「國防部財產申報作業誤失之問題檢討、應處作為、風險管控及後續強化資安保護」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【10月23日及24日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:32:01 - 13:55:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
318.142 |
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進行專題報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
455.377 |
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455.438 |
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進行專題報告。 |
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1472.5 |
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1473.507 |
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議題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1688.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1696.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
好,謝謝大家,我們現在開始開會初期委員已達法定人數,現在開始開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1702.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1724.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第6次全體委員會議議事錄時間113年10月16日星期三上午9時1分至中午12時19分下午20至35時10分地點本院紅樓201會議室出席為李坤哲等14人列席為林德福等37人列席官交通部部長陳世凱等主席曾召集委員數月 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1725.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1752.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
報告思想,宣讀上次會議議事錄,決定議事錄確定。邀請交通部部長陳世凱,練習報告業務概觀,並備質詢。本人會議由交通部部長陳世凱報告後,藉由委員李昆哲等30人提出質詢。均經交通部部長陳世凱及相關人員分別予以答覆決定。一、報告集群完畢。二、文憂浩等6人手提書面質詢均列入記錄並刊登公報。三、委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料。 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1753.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1779.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
或未及答覆部分,請交通部盡速以書面答覆通過臨時提案二項散會宣布完畢好,我們議事錄等一下再確定我們現在介紹在場列席的人員首先是我們交通部陳世凱部長來,掌聲歡迎一下,早上給他打個氣來,公共運輸監理師林福山司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1782.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1788.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
路政及檔案司黃應貴司長秘書處黃定環處長臺鐵公司杜威董事長鐵道局楊振軍局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1803.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1828.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
今天特別先說明一下因為昨天我們有交交友會的委員針對於高雄跟馬祖之間的航班因為有這個油料車及保險的一些問題有急迫性所以我們雖然議題上面跟民航沒有關但是我們還是緊急請了民航局來掌聲歡迎一下民航局局長何淑萍局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1829.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1857.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
也謝謝局長跟中油公司今天緊急來針對委員的問題等一下來做一個回答接下來我陸續介紹文化部文資局張宥創主秘謝謝我們中油公司羅富同副總謝謝今天播空參加接下來我們數位部黃燕南部長黃部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1862.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1889.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
術衛政府司王承明司長資通安全署謝翠娟署長今天也謝謝國防部來到我們交通委員會國防部楊基榮常事以及國防部的政風室王振國主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1891.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1908.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
黃主任通信電子資訊參謀次長是資安及網站整備處張克勤副處長以及我們軍事情報局鄧敦仁執行長好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1912.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1930.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
好本次會議就臺鐵如何精進服務品質、落實轉型治理、加速資產活化、強化文資保存及鐵道美學與功能及我國軌道建設執行概況 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1931.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1938.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
第三個議題是國防部財產申報作業募資的問題檢討應處作為風險管理及後續強化資安保護進行專題報告我們現在就請列席機關號來報告首先請交通部陳世凱部長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1960.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1984.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
主席、各位委員、各位女士先生交通部作為全國交通行政以及交通事業的主管機關是以民眾的服務作為中心點人本交通作為交通部施政的願景並且以安全、效率、品質以及綠色等四大面向作為施政的主軸臺鐵公司在今年的一到九月 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1985.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1994.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
累計客運人數達到1.76億人次較去年的同期增加了1700萬人次客運收入達到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1996.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2024.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
一百二十九點八五億元較去年的同期增加了七點三六億元儘管面臨震災以及風災的考驗以及影響臺鐵公司仍然充分展現全體員工的努力以及展開新氣象的企圖心提升運能以及運量臺鐵公司將以確保安全以及提升服務品質作為首要的任務推動五年安全提升計劃降低人員失誤率 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2025.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2046.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
提升設備妥善率以及完善組織安全的體系以實現永續經營與幸福企業的目標並且推動ESG永續經營邁向黃金十年軌道建設執行的方面因為軌道運輸具有安全可靠節能減碳、運量大 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2047.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2070.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
引導空間發展潛力大以及產業關聯效果強等等的優勢。交通部希望藉由強化軌道與公路系統的整合與分工打造有序無縫的軌道運輸環境、健全全城、城際的軌道服務系統以及穩固都會軌道基礎等軌道運輸政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2071.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2090.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
完善便利便捷安全的環島鐵路網並且促進區域均衡發展由鐵道局持續協助推動建構具有產業機會、安全可靠、悠遊易行、永續營運以及具有觀光魅力的綠色軌道運輸系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2093.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2119.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
以下就由臺鐵公司杜董事長以及鐵道局楊局長分別報告臺鐵如何精進服務品質、落實轉型治理、加強資產活化、強化文資保存提升鐵道美學與功能以及行車安全以及我國軌道建設執行概況進行各位委員指教謝謝那是不是請我們杜董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2131.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2151.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
主席、各位委員、各位女士先生今天應邀致貴委員會就《臺鐵如何精進服務品質、落實轉型治理、加速資產活化、強化文資保存及提升鐵道美學與功能》進行專題報告 敬請各位委員指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2153.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2168.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
關於精進服務品質的方面首先我們到今年的9月為止我們的客運時機每天我們實際輸運的旅客人數來到64.2萬人較去年同期增加10.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2169.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2193.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
另外我們每日的平均客運收入也有4739萬元增加5.62%那這個增長以外另外我們還積極推動行政院通勤月票及社福卡讓民眾以及大眾運輸的使用意願能夠持續的提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2194.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2218.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
在運能的方面我們EMU900型我們通勤電車已經全速交車上線那我們的3000型的晨季的電聯車在今年的8月也完成交車預計在年底之前可以全速投入所以我們區間的運能較之前有增加了35%那我們晨季的運能 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2221.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2231.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
有增加到40%那我們持續投入目前的包括R200的柴電機車頭以及E500的電力機車頭我們持續汰換舊車那預計E500在年底可以交車數量那我們到115年全數投入以後我們乘計輸運的運能可以再增加20% |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2248.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2273.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
在車站、場站服務的部分我們全線我們車站的432台自動售票機我們在今年全部開放支援行動支付讓這個付款更便利那7月1號我們也跟一無卡來合作來開放APP的B層車所以旅客可以在線上來進行加值 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2273.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2274.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就 «我國軌道建設執行概況》進 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2294.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2314.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那這個也有效的來吸引客源那另外九月我們啟用了我們驗票機的QR Code的驗證這樣旅客使用票證的時候就不需要經過刺卡通道來付費那另外我們全部車站一共有766座的公車評鑑 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2318.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2337.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
其中只有一座公廁我們正在爭取做特優其他的765座公廁都已經獲得特優的品項這個我們會持續的來維持鐵道觀光方面截至9月底我們一共在今年開行了1167團搭乘人數也有達到13萬6千多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2342.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2359.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那在10月以後我們有加開我們各式的包括總統花車的觀光列車來振興花東的一個觀光旅遊另外我們也開放明日跟兩鐵旅遊的半價優惠來吸引客源 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2360.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2378.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
在車型跟便當服務的方面我們到9月30日我們所有對號列車的座椅的整金我們都換新形式那另外提供30款以上的我們的特色便當 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2379.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2383.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我們今年便當的業績也較去年成長14.83%我們在今年6月辦理的鐵路便當節參觀人數跟營收也創下新高 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2395.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2423.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
準點率的部分因為今年有碰到這個比較多一點的天災包括地震、風災等等路線有中斷所以整體的列車準點率沒有達到我們原先設定97%的目標但是扣除天災以後的不可抗力以後我們的準點率有維持在97.13這個我們要需要繼續持續的來做非常大的努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2424.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2452.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那未來工作服務的重點就包括我們在今年第4季要持續的要把準點率來提升那明年我們的準點率仍然定為97.5%那另外就是有69個車站開始要全面的來偵測我們新的自動閘門以及優化跟閘門搭配的電子驗票機 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2453.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2481.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那全線車站的這個列車資訊顯示系統我們現在也在積極的在邀標那我們預計要用3年半的時間來全部於更新那還有就是車上車長使用的PDA漲電那有要增加這個漲電上面多元支付的一個功能所以未來旅客在車上補票也可以使用信用卡跟行動支付 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2481.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2497.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
另外,剛剛提到的公測的特有比例我們要達到百分之百那在今年底我們會公告來這個合作廠商我們要推出我們臺鐵假期的這個鐵道旅遊的服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2498.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2516.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
便當還有我們這個其他的副業的這個推動我們也希望能夠有所長進那還有一點很重要就是我們人員服務的效能包括我們的形象這個我們會持續的努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2519.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2541.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
在公司治理方面轉型治理一直是今年我們公司成立第一年一個最重要的工作在公司治理的部分我們成立董事會以後我們有特別加強董事會的一個效能包括成立安全管理委員會及資產開發委員會這兩個常設組織 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2545.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2571.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
那協助董事會那截至目前為止這個我們公司治理都有按照我們既定的時程在推動那另外就是公司的目標管理我們依據我們年度營業計畫的目標管理的機制我們有總經理擔任整個推動的召集人那我們有六大責任中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2572.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2585.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
分別設有KPI跟PDCA運作的模式,照這個模式確保達成目標。在人力禁用方面,從過往臺鐵局的鐵路特考模式轉變為僱用從業人員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2594.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2611.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
今年我們在年底之前我們還會招募第二批從業人員一共有722人裡面有包含100個是專任司機員的名額在教育訓練方面我們推動訓練標準化教材 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2612.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2625.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
數位化、教學分區化跟師資專業化四個項目,這個我們分別都有達到我們既定的一個目標明年我們會持續推動,讓我們的訓練能量持續的加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2628.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2644.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
未來工作的重點在轉型治理的工作重點包括我們強化我們內機跟內控的機制這個在昨天董事會已經通過了新的辦法另外還有就是在115年我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2649.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2665.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
智慧雲平台跟資產管理系統這兩個智慧型的系統預計會上線另外我們也成立鐵道學院在明年我們會優先跟國內好的大專院校來做合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2666.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2693.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
改善我們的教育的場域長期我們會在富岡基地成立學院包括我們的實習場等等設施我們預計在明年跟後年持續努力包括探足機標籤的取得還有組織溫室空氣體的盤查另外就是在115年我們會提出我們的ESG的永續報告書 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2694.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2716.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
在資產活化方面今年成績也還不錯那在今年截至目前為止我們扣除掉一次性處役收份因為我們成立公司以後我們基本上是不會做出賣土地資產的事那我們的租金收入來到23.6億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2718.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2736.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
那較去年同期的租金收入有成長8.86%而且這個是我們有移轉部分資產給常債基金這個先前我們能取得的租金這個都不在內所以這個成長是可以看到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2737.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2755.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
所以我們在未來我們的資產活化我們包括加速開發以及我們多元活化各種資產這個活化開發的方式我們會持續努力那在今年跟明年我們會推動10處車站跟周邊地區的一個開發案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2758.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2781.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
另外,透過土地開發來活絡在地商機提升彼此品牌力與附屬事業的收益。在強化文資保存方面,我們有成立專責推動的機構。在我們公司內部有企劃處以及文資科。另外,我們還有成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2782.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2799.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
跨公司內部各單位的文化保存跟活用小組這個都有定期開會來做一個目標的達成這裡包括盤點保存還有活化利用這兩個很重要的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2801.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2819.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
包括我們有99處的文化資產還有2523項的鐵路文物這個我們都有依照法規以及我們實際的需求來做保存來做運用那未來工作重點目標呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2820.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2844.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
我們在明年會完成我們的管理維護計畫還有我們的巡查那在115年我們會推動這個鐵路文化保存及活用發展計畫那這是一個涵蓋整體規劃跟影像建立的這兩個部分提升我們臺鐵文化資產的保存跟活化的一個價值 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2847.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2865.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
在提升鐵道美學與功能的方面我們有成立專家諮詢的審議小組這是由9位我們國內專家學者來組成的一共有4個主要的項目包括車站 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2866.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2889.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
包括車輛、包括網路的行銷還有企業形象我們透過這個小組對我們整個這四大項目來進行專業評估跟指導我們都有嚴謹的一個審議的流程確保美學理念能夠有效的來落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2890.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2916.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
建立品牌美學現在已經有新竹、嘉義、英哥等等車站都有進行微改造這個年代也對於服務品質的提升有很大的注意另外在車輛的部分包括剛剛講到的城際列車跟區間列車也都有所展現還有就是我們臺鐵公司我們包括TR LOGO還有臺鐵夢工廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2917.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2919.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就 «我國軌道建設執行概況》進 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2935.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2949.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
來完成支線觀光列車形象建立另外在明年我們會完成瑞芳站的改善工程這也是跟我們美學改造很有關聯 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2951.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2958.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
有提升旅營空間及景觀。最後,預計持續努力在117年,集集支線的7個車站都會完成基礎設施改善計畫,配合田中支線啟用展現集集的效能。 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2973.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2989.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
我們臺鐵公司是以確保安全跟提升服務為首要任務持續努力針對剛剛講到的精進服務品質、落實轉型治理、加速資產活化、強化文資保存 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2990.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3011.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
提升鐵道美學的功能等等的項目我們會更加的努力來提供我們好的乘車品質跟旅客的服務體驗也有助於持續來推動未來整個公司ESG的永續經營邁向黃金十年以上是報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3013.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3039.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
好 謝謝杜董事長那接下來交通部的一個報告因為我們全國的軌道執行的建設這本已經整理蠻好了針對於整個臺灣的北、中、南、東包括了這個高鐵甚至台鐵、捷運都有一個大綱式的一個進度報告那這個部分我們待會會看委員的一個需求直接透過質詢再來詢問細節的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3043.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3047.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
好接下來報告我們請數位部黃部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3057.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3083.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
主席、各位委員先進有關媒體揭露機關業務執行師含文附件包括機敏資料自有資料過多揭露疑慮議題本部治安署持續關注治安威脅趨勢及治安事件的根因適時會提供機關治安防護的重點建議並於各式治安宣導會議及治安月報中適時宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3086.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3102.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
提醒各機關注意辦理此次案件如為機關業務執行使人員的疏漏應該要加強人員機敏資料的保護意識詳細的說明我再請治安署來補充這我主席請治安署主席各位先進 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3112.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3119.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
有關機關執行財產申報的疏失、航文附件包含機敏資料,以至於過多資料揭露的疑義,僅報告如下。本部專屬 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3123.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3143.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
進起延期資料外洩的那個真事件的根因大概有四個第一個是詹人員的意識不足或者是一般操作人員的意識不足第二是不當操作或者是上架沒有遮蔽個資或者是錯字把資料放在沒限制存取的公開區域等那這些樣態我們都會在 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3146.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3174.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
安排資安宣導會議或資安月報中事實的宣導然後提醒各機關要注意辦理那這一次的事件其實是業務人員在執行的時候的疏漏那麼我們是建議說可以加強人員機敏性的資料保護的意識的訓練那同仁在執行業務時或者是傳輸資料不管他是使用系統或者是電子郵件來傳輸應該要先研判夾帶的附件是否具有機敏性 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3175.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3189.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
並且採取相對應的處置措施,比如說最小化揭露,還有如果它是機敏性的資料,應該要適當的加密或者是說存取的控制跟加密的傳輸等等。那本部 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3192.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3212.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
而資通安全署也將持續關注資安威脅的趨勢,適時提供機關資安防護的重點建議,而且我們每年會辦理資通安全的巡迴研討會,宣傳最新的資安防護重點及訊息,也會協助各個機關的負責資通安全業務的人員去提升他整個資通安全管理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3213.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3232.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
技能跟認知那我們也會定期彙整各機關資安事件的樣態還有相對的防護建議公開在資安署的網站還有資安月報專區提供各個機關可以參考以強化國家整體的自動安全防護能量報告完畢謝謝好謝謝我們數位部跟資安署那接下來我們請國防部楊俊榮次長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3244.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3263.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
那待會文化部的資料就請委員參閱主席、各位委員今日受邀就財產申報作業務實質問題檢討應處作為風險管控及後續強化資安保護實施專題報告以下僅就本案相關的檢討及風險管控的應處作為進行說明第一個部分問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3275.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3291.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
檢討本部的政控室依據國軍人員財產申報作業實施規定辦理今年度財產申報及授權作業將因辦理財產申報人員名冊循軍網的公文系統以電子發文含送本部轄管的單位來收辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3293.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3309.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
為因承辦的同仁未將附件中機敏人員名冊予以取革及個別處理。附因核稿人員未以詳查而隨文發出作業程序有所疏漏,衍生了資料可能外流的疑慮。二、本案的應處與風險管控 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3312.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3335.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
第一個,啟動了回收公文降低風險的影響本部政公司在接貨反應後立即啟動風險管控的相關作為在第一時間就要求了各收文的單位循公文的系統流程辦理線上的退文並全數收回刪除該份電子公文降低機敏人員資料外流的風險第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3336.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3345.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
檢視所有的名冊,無涉財產資料。經檢視該名冊的內容,僅含服務機關、職稱、姓名、申報年度等資訊,並未包含個人存款、不動產、投資等財產申報的資料。第三,軍網實體隔離尚無治安的風險。該份電子公文雖然採軍網公文系統傳送,內部傳輸的環境與全球資訊網 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3365.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3383.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
實體隔離,為為確保資安的顧慮,能檢視公文系統有無異常情勢,避禁尚無資訊安全風險的顧慮。第四、成立專案小組進行複式查核,為確認該公文未儲存於系統內,遭不當利用,衍生違安問題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3384.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3404.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
處以相關人員確認已刪除該公文外﹐並那邊、通識室等相關單位成立專案小組﹐針對電子公文回收、刪除進行複式查核跟確認。三、有關後續的策進作為。第一項,檢討本案吸引人為因素疏忽公文處理欠當。 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3405.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3428.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
以及各級核稿人員未能詳實的稽查及審核所致,除進行內部文書審核流程的檢討及落實機密名冊區隔分類做法,並依利用此案例來加強宣導及教育訓練,強化公文處理保密的素養,防範列案。二、秉持了資安管控的原則,此行強化公文系統運維,加強資訊安全意識訓練, |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3434.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3445.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
來維護國軍資訊整體的安全。第三、目前本案實施行政調查當中,同時檢討相關人員及業務主管的疏則,並函告廉政署。報告完畢,恭請指導。 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3452.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3466.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
好我們現在進行詢答先宣告以下事項詢答時間初期委員6加2分鐘列席委員4加1分鐘委員發言登記於10點30分截止本會委員除外 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3467.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3484.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
第三、各委員如有臨時提案區10點前提出以便議事人員會診第四、暫定10點30分休息10分鐘第五、中午原則上不休息現在我們就請登記第一位李昆哲委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3493.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3499.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
謝謝召委請一下陳部長還有周威董事長、楊振鈞局長楊局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3504.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3528.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
部長您好,今天討論的議題早晚安排的是相關臺鐵的服務品質以及資產管理、文化的保存以及相關的鐵道美學等等這些重要的議題其實我們討論到臺鐵,現在每天平均大概有64萬人次搭乘臺鐵 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3529.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3558.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
是一個重要的大眾運輸工具那你認為臺鐵最重要的責任跟工作到底是什麼來說明一下我覺得臺鐵最重要的是安全的確保所有旅客的安全確保這是第一要務那第二當然我們服務的提升也是很重要服務我想64萬人次的旅客我們要給安全準點的這樣的一個重要的責任工作是我們交通部最重要的一個工作那 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3558.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3587.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
我們現在看到臺鐵相關的這些在過去部長應該清楚臺鐵過去有運、工、積、電四個單位那這四個單位在過去的都是各行其事各自獨立運作其實雖然是同一個臺鐵局但是運、工、積、電杜薇董事長是老臺鐵也很清楚整個是有相當大的問題四大角頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3588.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3608.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
我們不好處理啦那現在公司化之後杜葳董事長努力要做初步的一個整合但是這個整合我認為啊績效還是不好啦那我請教一下部長我們現在對於臺鐵相關的這些安全工作的整合你目前的態度跟原則是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3609.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3636.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
當然運供基電四個系統對於整體的安全是相當的重要過去的運行的過程當中整合的不夠好那現在他們透過智慧鐵道的雲的這個平台的建置還有其他的系統正在建置當中希望能夠做到更好的整合那像委員所說的沒有錯目前的進度可能不夠好那這個部分我也請杜葳董事長要努力來加強部長跟杜董事長我要提醒你們我們過去啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3636.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3654.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
有相當多的安全計畫6年行車安全計畫然後電路智慧化的提升計畫小半徑彎曲的一個改善計畫還有軌道安全的結構的這樣安全計畫現在又多了一個5年的安全計畫計畫不斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3658.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3674.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
然後我們現在說要成立相關的安全管理的推動小組我請教一下杜董事長我們在上次重大的災難之後有成立了營運安全處現在又要成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3675.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3694.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
安全的管理推動小組來說明一下這個機制到底是要怎麼運作是跟委員報告其實剛剛委員提到我們運工機電的整合這件事情我們就是把他們全部納到安全管理推動小組裡面來由總經理直接的來檢視來訂目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3698.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3713.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
讓他們完成那這個其中的整合是有相關聯的那剛剛提到的運安處就是這個推動小組的幕僚單位他要幫總經理跟整個小組做好規劃然後要言語考核要達標 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3715.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3743.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
那他最主要還是根據SNS還有相關的安全管理系統那對於這些跨部門他們相關的運作來訂立一個目標而已嘛是那個我跟委員報告就是SNS裡面有一個很重要的重點是風險管控以往我們都是各行其事是沒有錯啦但是我們公司成立以後我們的風險管控就改了我們現在每一個風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3745.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3770.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
發生的原因以及推到最後面我們要去管控它的改善計畫都包含運供、機電各部門的配合所以在安全管理推動小組裡面會對我們所有的風險管控就是檢視、考核在修正在之前有營運安全處的成立現在又成立了安全管理推動小組 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3773.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3800.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
計畫不斷小組不斷但是它實際的功效杜董事長在公司化之後必須要拿出具體的一個成績那現在提到智慧鐵道平臺雲智慧鐵道雲的這個平臺好像最近才發包嗎好像還沒有上線嗎還沒有已經發包了10月份發包10月份發包謝謝部長那什麼時候可以預計上線運作呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3801.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3814.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
我們跟委員報告我們預計初步的在明年的下半年我們會有幾個主系統可以連上來那全部第一階段的一個連線就上線了我們預計是在115年的上半年 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3818.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3838.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
相關的智慧鐵道員這個平台他主要是來做一個各系統的一個界面的整合能夠讓相關的訊息能夠讓相關的這樣的一個資訊信號能夠做一個整合這是一個很重要的向前邁進一大步這個杜董事長要加強的去落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3839.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3854.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
我們現在看到第三代CTC就是中央行車控制系統這是我們很期待的一個新的系統的建制目前這個功能以及相關的建制期程杜董事長說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3854.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3871.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
來跟委員報告,CTC這個部分我們現在已經報計畫上來了那只要院合訂以後,我們會趕快的來做一個發包的動作那這個CTC裡面,它的所有功能是結合於平台的 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3872.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3895.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
那也就是說未來現場各方各面的資料都可以透過雲平台傳到CTC那CTC的控制員、調度員就可以獲得第一手的資訊這是很重要的我認為這第三代的CTC中央行車控制系統必須加緊建置而且如期如止的要來完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3896.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3911.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
杜董事長我請教一下我們講到安全的管理我們例如以平交道的管理來做一個說法平交道它有遮斷器有這樣的相關的義務入侵的偵測以及相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3912.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3941.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
CMT就是這樣的一個集體監測的這樣一個系統或是錄影監測的系統那如何去做好這個平交道的安全管理以這個來做例子你們現在目前的做法是什麼是,現在平交道的安全管理其實我們平交道上的設備應該已經建區齊全了只是這些設備它的資訊以及它的功能就是還需要做即時的傳輸跟整合 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3941.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3970.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
那舉這個平交道的例子比如說我們的錄影監視系統那現在調度員看不到那未來透過雲平台每一個平交道的畫面調度員都可以立即的調出來來審視那平交道的這個機構如果說他有這個衰退或者是他有這個異常現象的現在我們的人是要看到表徵發生以後才跑到現場去 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3971.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3991.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
這個部長都要落實的去督促每天有64萬人次人搭乘臺鐵安全是我們最重要的責任那最後的時間我們對臺鐵員工的待遇這個我知道最近部長跟杜董事長積極的要推動相關的員工福利的一個提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3993.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4014.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
在過去啊臺鐵的這個新人的離職率非常的高因為啊他們認為臺鐵啊待遇不夠好然後工作也非常辛苦所以他變成一個我講的非常沒不禮貌就是有點騎驢找馬我先考上臺鐵我再來考其他的單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4016.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4038.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
臺鐵變成一個人力培訓中心大家都離職率都非常高尤其是臺鐵那我們看到臺鐵公司人員的離退情形是很嚴重我們到113年就是6月30日為止申請優退禮的人數是達到1399人那如果再加上 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4039.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4056.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
一百一十三年符合退休年齡的人數到一百一十三年底合計退役的人數會達到一千五百四十三人這個部分我們在之前我有 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4056.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4084.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
跟杜董事長我們有努力有成功為臺鐵員工來增加他們營運獎金並入專業佳績而且也增加了危險津貼那現在我們有什麼更進一步的對於臺鐵的員工我們必須要盡到我們照顧的責任要調高從業人員的薪資或是爭取危險的佳績以及夜點費或是地域佳績有什麼更進一步的 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4085.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4102.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
報告委員在這段時間您也花了很多時間跟我討論然後我們也花了一些時間跟臺鐵公司來討論尤其是從業人員的部分從業人員是新進的人員那他們過去的薪資跟原本留任的人員確實是有一定的差距 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4102.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4124.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
那這個部分我們正在努力當中那也應該很快的時間會讓大家看到成果這段時間不管是交通部我們內部的討論或者是到人事總處那邊的討論我們都已經完成了很快的院那邊如果只要核定下來對於從業人員的加薪就會如委員所期待的會有一定的進度會出現那媒體也有報導 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4125.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4143.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
那針對他們的基本底薪的部分大概會增加三千多塊左右啦會增加到大概新聘人員大概一進來大概就三萬六以上的這個薪資那當然還是不夠還有很多該加給的部分我們持續在努力那整套的計畫那個杜董事長這邊杜董事長來簡單再補充一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4145.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4163.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
是,剛剛部長指示的這個我們努力以外其實對公司來講我們要留才也是最重要的工作就是讓員工對公司有信心所以我們對於安全跟服務這兩大區塊我們必須要有所進步 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4164.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4192.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
那這個是當然反過來講還是要公司全體員工一致的向心努力才能達成那之前我也有報告過就是在這兩塊有進步的前提之下我們才能吸引客源我們才能夠善用資產那我們如果營業收入因而增加的話那我們調整待遇或者是增加員工福利才有機會做更好的一個發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4192.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4200.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
好我今天講的重點就是照顧員工的一個福利啦要提升照顧員工的基本生活及權益最後最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4201.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4227.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
部長我們對於高雄的黃線捷運那因為相關的物價上漲總經費增加非常的多那在9月交通部也召開過相關的捷運委員會的一個審查那希望能夠加速相關的行政程序啦另外還有紫線捷運可行性評估也送到交通部了也要加緊相關的行政程序之前委員也有來參加審查委員會那這個部分我們來加速謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4232.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4248.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
好 謝謝李昆哲委員那我們先來確認一下上次會議的議事錄在座各位委員對於上次會議的議事錄有沒有意見沒有好 沒有意見那我們議事錄確定接下來有請林國成委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4257.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4263.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
主席請我們交通部陳部長陳部長來我們臺鐵公司杜董事長杜董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4272.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4287.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
好部長董事長早委員早我想這樣啦因為我們交通委員會針對臺鐵當然期待也算蠻高的啦那當然今天有一些有關的一個單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4288.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4313.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
也通通來包括什麼文化、鐵道文化等等這些那就代表什麼就代表本委員會的委員確實對於臺鐵公司整個改造是非常重視的那第一個本席比較重視的是安全還有品質 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4314.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4336.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
所以這兩者之間有了品質才有漲價的空間有了安全、理克才有信心去做臺鐵所以以我個人所了解從基層到現在為止我一直在鼓勵杜董事長還有我們臺鐵所有的員工 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4337.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4360.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
也就是改為民營化、國營公司化的時候確確實實有很多的空間是真的董事長跟董事會就可以去做決定那我這裡有兩個問題就必須要請教我們杜董事長第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4362.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4378.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
到底我們現在3000型的新的自強號你們有沒有發現到現在交車的時候現在到底他這個新車種這3000型的新車種 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4382.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4398.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
你認為它的設計因為我們大家知道車體是日本的但是內裝是我們台灣的那所以在這裡你有沒有去發現到這個新車型的當中當然是我們的噱頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4399.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4412.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
也是我們改變形象的第一關那你認為杜董事長你有沒有去發現到三千型的這些新制強號他有什麼缺點沒有你們有沒有去發現 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4414.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4435.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
跟委員報告其實三千型自強號有剛剛委員講的這種方式也是我們推動國產化中間的一環那的確這個車子進來其實它整體表現以我的經驗是不錯的但是呢的確也有一些細節是有待改善的 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4437.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4463.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
舉例呢我看看你們有沒有自己有沒有發現是是是比如說這個三線型它的座椅因為當初在設計的時候我們是以防火安全性為前提那再過來就是服衣美學所以座椅的部分可能在旅客舒適度跟使用便利度方面還有進步的空間好 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4464.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4475.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
杜總長我這裡所接到的我們的客戶所承坐以後他的感受第一個他的座椅根本不舒服啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4477.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4497.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
不要談美學人工基本的這些人工美學都不足所以這個部分我想建議杜董事長你們既然有改造小組這些東西更小的東西做到零缺點就等於你們的品質是提升的 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4499.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4507.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
連這些座椅最基本的都沒有辦法改進你說你改進品質你要漲價我可以跟你講部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4509.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4534.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
老百姓絕對反彈。第一個,咒語的問題,既然是我們台灣做的,那為什麼會做成這樣?欸,台灣各項的品質啊,不亞於任何一個國家啦,所以為什麼會做成這樣?所以,杜董事長,這個要記起來。是。第二個,欸,充電器,既然有這個水準,你把它藏在底下幹什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4535.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4563.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
沒有人看到我要插這個插頭的時候我還要低下來那個起來的時候打到椅子受傷的時候本來是一個很好的插頭你為什麼要害他受傷呢這個也是設計不良設計不良另外一個最簡單的既然可以放杯子裡面你設計那麼小幹什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4565.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4580.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
你設計那麼小幹什麼連一瓶飲料都沒有辦法放進去啊那個有設計跟沒有設計差多少這個難道說我們都不知道嗎所以飲用這麼多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4583.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4608.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
車體進來是我們要創新的一種讓人家感覺我是有新車不是說坐我台鐵都坐那個古老古潮的車這是很好的但是為什麼這麼簡單的小問題你們都沒有去發現報告委員您所提示的這個剛好也是我自己曾做的經驗當時我有跟杜董事長討論那也確實要做改進是不是請杜董事長可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4609.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4625.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
跟委員報告剛剛委員講的這三個包括座椅的舒適度的改善還有衝動座移設都董事長來你不要占用我的時間我提供給你們就是把它列入你們列入檢討的一份我們已經在改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4626.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4646.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
所以這些東西所以我們說實在民意代表本來發現問題就提供給你們做參考但是就是要看你們做與不做這個問題但是我不希望我個人在整個政界在執行的時候我提供給你你沒有給我答案 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4647.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4673.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
請你放心下一次有機會我們會拜託召委還在排那那個時候我講話就不太客氣所以杜董你把它列下來雖然小問題但是因為小問題解決就沒有大問題所以就沒有大問題所以小問題解決自然品質就會上來所以我要給杜董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4674.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4702.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
也要拜託我們部長你是一個年輕有為所以我希望跟別人不一樣小問題立委所指正的東西就是你們改進的方向嘛所以我希望我們臺鐵是要借進日本的機會到現在為止臺鐵只有一個做的讓我感覺到非常歷史悠久、認念不忘的就是你們的便當 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4703.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4724.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
你們的便當但是你們的便當你們為什麼會這樣你們跟日本是連結起來的他改進你們也進步那我們進步他也改進這樣的起來這種東西到現在為止人家是肯定的有沒有辦法我們臺鐵公司能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4725.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4726.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4742.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4762.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
官某捷運所以這幾點我也要拜託部長要去監督杜董事長你要拿出你的魄力另外一個這個跟部長就有關部長上任以後我很欽佩的就是你到臺中車站的時候第一個也就是我們安全閘門的問題臺鐵現在都沒有捷運有了高鐵有 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4767.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4785.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
幾乎是我們歷史悠久的台鐵我們是國營欸你們都不重視這種這種那個那個安全道這些問題嗎所以部長來那要做還是不做這個我們在10月份會做決標第一個這個適用的這個月台的 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4786.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4814.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
月臺門會在高雄來試辦那我們希望在明年底之前先做好先做好第一個那如果因為我們的臺鐵系統比較複雜一些它的閘門的每一臺車的門的位置都不一樣所以那閘門會比較特殊一點那這個部分我們先試辦如果高雄試辦的成效不錯那我們就會開始爭取預算我們希望在人比較人潮比較多的月臺我們優先來施作這個沒有啦六都裡面你像 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4815.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4833.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
你像臺中啊臺北啊這是人口比較密集的地方啊說實在話這個要盡快做可是有一點喔部長我跟你投訴我看來看去你們沒有預算有啦1.5億的預算是高雄的那個試用的這個月台門 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4834.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4848.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
那它可以做好之後我們就會再爭取新的預算如果做得好的話我們會爭取我們是適用的部分有編列有有有我們編在那個一般建築一般建築所以我看沒有專案的編列預算我還是很仔細 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4849.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4871.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
去注意一下你是編列到一般的建築裡面是不是是是是所以這個要特別我們115年會有一個專案的處理好啦部長我相信啦因為你發現問題就已經把老百姓所需要的東西你已經看到安全非常重要所以我們一年啊我們一年啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4872.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4901.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
是跌下去那個鐵道欸死了不少人欸這個要特別小心所以我還是要鼓勵杜董事長還有請求我們這個陳部長要有潛力的去監督讓用一年三年五年把臺鐵偷胎放骨這樣大家才會對交通部對臺鐵有信心好不好好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4904.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4905.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
臺鐵十大酷刑、鐵板椅子、跪著插USB |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4923.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4940.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
那請杜董事長拜託啦那個當年是哪些人做的因為我現在對於這些的廠商我真的非常有興趣得標能力非常高怎麼會設計這種出來能夠把那個得標資訊整理一下給我們交通委員會謝謝好接下來請許智傑委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4950.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4955.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
謝謝主席,我們請部長跟民航局長交通部部長,來陳部長何局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4969.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4995.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
謝謝部長先跟部長報告我們高碼航線很謝謝民航局跟交通部的辛苦現在也已經開始11月6號要首航起飛我們的市長包括馬祖的縣長也會飛過來陪我們市長一起從高雄飛到馬祖那天是一個應該是一個蠻熱鬧的一個慶祝的活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4999.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5004.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
那當然我在想事情會想比較遠啦就是說飛一個月之後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5007.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5031.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
報告委員我們現在會爭取說我們現在先用包機復航的方式因為在20年前很像也有試過那之後飛了半年之後那個航運量不足所以就關了那我們現在也希望再試一次看看就是說試試看如果說需求量有我們未來固定的航班就會有我先請教部長一個政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5032.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5046.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
我們當部長當然要想得比較長遠,一個政策如果事半的時間是一個月,歡歡喜喜的慶祝一個月,落落落落的收場,這樣子對我們部長的顏面何在? |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5049.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5078.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
所以我的意思就是說其實我昨天也有開一個協調會跟陳雪生委員還有李坤哲委員我們也開一個協調會就是到底後續要如何能延續下去所以我大概先簡單跟部長報告就是說希望部長想辦法啦因為昨天是沒有人有想到辦法那就是說我們分短中長期啦長期我們當然是希望能夠變成固定航班 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5079.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5103.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
那短期呢是這一個月我實在是嚇死了一個月我今天如果去風光的開幕風光的做過去就一個月就沒了我不知道怎麼跟鄉親交代您說的這個很重要所以中期我是覺得我要跟部長報告跟要求啦你至少要半年嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5104.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5121.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
或者是說你試用期間我們一個人員進來試用期間也三個月那我們進來試一個月然後後續有一餐沒一餐的還不知道在哪裡所以是不是可以請部長跟民航局長或者是跟哪一些相關單位去協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5122.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5148.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
昨天我是協調不出一個具體的方案啦那我希望說部長跟局長可以把這個方案協調好至少我不容許一個月就停飛啦這個部長你會容許嗎報告委員齁您昨天開完協調會之後我們大概知道內容啦齁那我們也去找出一些問題例如說現在加油上面的問題我知道有很多的問題這個必須要先克服是的那這個克服之後委員希望讓他時間再拉長 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5149.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5158.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
這個我會請民航局,因為目前補助的費用我們是朝觀光方面,觀光署那邊用補助的方式來包機。沒關係啦,我先跟部長做一個簡單的概念,就是我的觀念很簡單,我不容許一個月就停了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5165.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5182.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
了解那相關的單位有很多的需要去克服的問題包括我去拜訪華信我跟中友聯絡事實上我也知道有很多困難這個我都很了解只是昨天還找不到方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5183.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5197.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
因為當然最後的方案還是錢的問題如何能夠大家妥適的分配可以完成所以我只是要跟部長強調這一點我不容許一個月就停了 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5199.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5216.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
這個人民的情感情何以堪我相信部長也不會說我一個交通部長我一個政策下去我一個月事辦他就停了這個當部長應該也不會接受吧我們如果有的問題可以解決延長的部分我們會照委員的要求我們會來延長看怎麼延長 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5217.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5241.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
對啦,所以希望部長可以承諾啦不要一個月就停啦好不好好,就照委員的意思,但我就說那個油的問題我們解決我們後續不會讓它只有一個月對,我知道困難,因為我也問了很多的單位,困難點我知道在哪裡但是需要部長有這個魄力去處理,要不然真的會贏效大方我們民進黨這次靠業工做一個月就停了 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5242.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5263.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
這是一個綠色執政品質保證,我們一定要顯現出那個魄力跟長遠的規劃。但是如果是我做部長,我如果賠一個月的錢,我不要賠。你懂我意思嗎?所以我覺得這是當部長可能比較辛苦的地方,希望讓部長跟局長想辦法。好,這個我們來努力。好,謝謝。好,那個臺鐵 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5272.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5302.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
上一次部長在你不在那我有跟部長報告說那個我鳳山車站的招標現在又把那個截止日期延長一個月嘛對不對是是那有信心嗎有那個我們現在還另外還同時還在積極的有信心我現在我其實也只是希望一個答案啦就是我一直在擔心那那個董事長有信心嗎有我有信心完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5303.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5308.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
實際上我們高雄高鐵延伸到高雄車站是我們高雄人的希望也是高雄人的痛如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5329.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5353.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
吳敦義當市長毛志國當部長那個時候可以直接規劃的話我們今天不用痛兩次那我們鐵路地下化痛一次現在又要痛一次事實上我們真的是很不捨那當然就是說如果長痛跟短痛我們要選擇最後還是短痛再接受10年的話那規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5355.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5383.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
要怎麼樣去減少傷害我想南高雄的人大部分的人都希望可以拉到高雄站但是就在那周遭的居民很害怕我要被挖10年所以這個部分是不是交通部跟鐵道局有一個大概預計的規劃決定了沒有報告委員目前高鐵延伸屏東的案子目前是兩個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5384.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5408.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
我們還沒有到最後決定大概在年底我們希望在年底收攏大家的意見之後能夠做決定那兩個方案其實都在評估那如果是高雄案的話我很清楚說高雄的鄉親跟委員們其實都有在反映很擔心的那個黑暗期的10年又再恢復一次啦那我要跟委員報告就是說上一次的這個鐵道的地下化的過程當中是大量的民挖 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5409.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5432.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
然後再加上原本的軌道還在運行當中所以那影響的面積其實相當的大對交通的影響也相當大未來當然現在鐵軌已經下去了嘛我們一定會用大量的這個潛盾的模式減少民挖不會說完全沒民挖但減少民挖那大量潛盾再來就是說對於綠岩道我知道現在鐵軌下地之後有很多的綠岩道我們盡量減少破壞 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5434.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5460.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
那另外交通方面的影響我們也會用辦辦施工的方式讓交通的影響能夠降低那這個部分也都在做規劃跟討論當中幾乎已經快定案了嘛 對不對那我再提醒一下就是說我們高雄、鳳山、屏東事實上一起思考啦如果說一定是到高雄車站的話那鳳山、屏東一起思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5461.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5480.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
那最後就是說如果在過去那個聽說那個什麼上面我們那個蓋得很漂亮的那個建築還有轉運站會被拆掉那個應該是一個誤解跟誤會啦現在我們要蓋的那個天棚跟那個轉運站的整個上面很漂亮的建築物大家期待很久那個完全沒有影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5480.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5480.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
我們南高雄的很誠懇的、很期盼 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5509.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5537.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
高鐵可以到高雄站甚至鳳山站那住附近的很痛是希望說交通部盡量去減少傷害那最後就是說事實上交通部應該再考慮到就是說我今天如果到高雄站的話我跟周遭的所有的商圈等等的連結應該要做一個整體的包括交通就整體的做一個診病的思考不要只是說我通過了以後其他都是你們的事我通過到那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5538.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5539.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
接下來有請林沛翔委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5578.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5587.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
謝謝主席有請陳部長還有那個交通部陳部長鐵道局楊局長跟我們台鐵的杜董事長杜董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5596.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5623.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
呃部長我記得沒有錯的話這個應該是週末的時候既然有強降雨那在於暖暖車站那邊發生說鐵那個軌道就直接被這個淹死的豪大豪大雨給淹沒那這個造成是說當地的這個旁邊在他們這些neighboring community就是旁邊鄰近的住戶還有整個鐵還有整個北回鐵路尤其在暖暖端這邊我記得沒有錯北回鐵路是暖暖端是必須 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5624.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5640.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
畢竟知道那變成是說這個雖然很快就雨就散掉了但是畢竟來講這整個癱瘓了整個北匯鐵路系統那我就想請問說那現在那個狀況目前要怎麼樣去把它改善目前短期間怎麼把它改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5641.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5664.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
短時強降雨其實我覺得極端氣候之後時常會遇到所以過去有一些過去有一些不太會淹的地方可能現在都會淹那過去淹水頻率低的地方現在可能也會變高所以對於那個車站的排水的短期的改善目前臺鐵已經在做準備那也已經在做計畫準備要做短期的這個排水的改善那這個部分大概是一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5665.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5683.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
其實我這邊要提議一件事以前曾經就有委員提過有關暖暖車站的鐵路外移因為現在這個平交道嚴格講起來是剛好在暖暖市暖暖的市區的中心那為什麼我會再重新提這個案子的原因是說一方面這個能夠把這個我們現在遇到的淹水問題能夠徹底解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5687.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5716.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
那第二個來講的話對於北迴鐵路我知道現在以如果從路面上來如果從圖面上來看的話暖暖鐵道鐵道如果能夠外移成功那會對於整個北迴鐵路可以所謂的截彎取直可以對於整個的北迴鐵路的量能跟班次能夠做增加那嚴格講起來對我們的整個北迴鐵路的整個鐵路的這capacity量能是有很大很常駐的很常駐的發展的那第三個也是因為暖暖市區暖暖區現在因為這個溢出效應這方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5717.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5734.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
這個都會去溢出效應的結果因為不管是在基隆市現在房價都在漲房價都在漲建案也在蓋但是生活機能的增加是要靠都市計畫是要靠有關空地出來才能把那邊不管是醫院、學校還是各方面的機能 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5734.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5752.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
所以變成是說如果能夠鐵路能夠外移到我記得是趙淵遠路的話會對於這個我們整個暖暖基隆市暖暖市區這邊的幫助會相當大那不知道部長可不可以幫協助說這方面先做個可行性研究看是否能夠能夠把這鐵路外移這件事情把它整整 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5753.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5781.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
您在建議的如果對北迴線來講的話是一個安全比較好的狀態底下我剛有說過如果在極端氣候之下那個地方時常在淹水那我們短期的這個排水的部分做完之後如果成效不好的話那確實是有可能需要去討論到有沒有要改線或改道的部分那這個部分因為是蠻大的議題委員您交代那我們先內部先來做討論一下研議一下看有沒有這樣的可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5782.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5808.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
委員剛剛有說過過去很像有討論過這個議題那我們也會調出說過去討論這個議題的過程當中遇到哪些困難點那我們一起來拿出來討論我記得20年前劉恩雄委員跟徐少平委員都曾經一起討論過這個議題所以說這個議題後來不知道為什麼事情嚴格了但是現在遇到極端氣候同樣的地方又發生同樣的事情所以我覺得這個案子我會建議說真的拿出來好好討論一下我們拿出來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5810.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5826.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
好那那第二個是有關實事題最近除了這個暖暖這個鐵路淹水之外其實上個禮拜五那國道1號在暖暖交通道附近火燒車昨天那又遇到說在國道1號北國道1號南下遇到火 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5828.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5842.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
我遇到貨櫃車、跑馬故障昨天晚上又遇到說北上的時候遇到很我人在9026我人在南港三三館所以我那時候可能直接跟公路局的公務員科長直接有點抱怨 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5843.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5865.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
那可是我同時之間我有收到其他四條線也是一個半小時上不了車的狀況甚至在今天早上在汐止大同路上面的火災都造成說直接的汐止大同路上面的火災造成我剛剛九點半的時候這邊這個這個這個用車才才疏解所以連續連續兩天我們就是三次尖峰十三的大塞車 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5866.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5887.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
那變成說昨天晚上 禮拜五晚上也是大塞車變成全國都報道 變成說這基隆市到臺北上班的通勤族在國道客運上面這個塞車已經是一個很悲哀的常態其實這一點都不應該笑 可是我有點無奈變成是說 我想請問一下針對國道客運有沒有所謂的SOP有沒有所謂的那個臨時應變的機制可以讓國道客運再把 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5892.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5916.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
臺北的這些站點全部載完該站的乘客之後直接到直接回基隆可是不用經過本來預定的路線假使國營現在是直報也就是說每小時不到10公里的時速那是不是可以直接走三高當我們看從1968還是從其他的建設系統看到三高其實是暢通的是可以疏散的是不是有這個機制那如何能夠啟動 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5918.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5938.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
報告委員您說的這個機制我覺得相當重要像國道5號它也有國道客運那當它擁塞的時候我有問我們公路局的同仁有沒有這樣子的SOP可以讓他不要走國道5號我們走其他的線因為對旅客來說我上站的地方有辦法上我要下站的地方有辦法下就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5938.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5956.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
但中間經過國道這個部分他不會很介意啦當然希望可以快但當不能快的時候如果需要轉道的部分可不可以那我們的同仁跟我回應是可以的這個沒有問題那基隆確實我們這段時間有看到那個交流道攤方啦或者是火燒車等等的問題有時候國道1號確實不能走了 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5958.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5987.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
那這個也牽扯到路權的問題那客運他不會主動說想要轉道那但因為有這個路權的限制但如果我們有一套的SOP建立起來跟地方政府也好跟客運業者也好講好如果國道1號很擁塞的狀況底下可不可以繞到其他的地方上站點跟下站點一樣那國道的部分我們可以用一個臨時路權的方案那這個部分委員您交代我們來研究這個部分應該是可行可以做得到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5987.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6016.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
我覺得這上面來講的就是不只是公路局還有高工局這兩邊要互相能夠一起演繹這個事因為當下高工局發現說這邊路上那個高速公路上面已經發生事故已經擁捨到不行了甚至在尖峰時段已經影響到整個通勤交通的時候那這時候緊急應變機制要早點出來所以早出來的話我認為說其實不會有人是會介意多繞點路可是大家都不喜歡塞車因為塞車不知道什麼時候能解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6017.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6034.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
而且尤其是在臺北在等車的人他們看到車子沒有來他們期待在那邊等車已經很辛苦了可是在那邊等著車子卻不知道什麼時候來他們的怒氣跟怨氣是直接對於不管是誰不管是地方政府還是中央政府他們直接怒氣是直接衝著 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6034.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6062.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
衝著我們公部門的不作為而來的那這公部門也沒有辦法遲遲的跟他們解釋當下也無法解釋清楚你不可能在這個收購百貨前面跟他們講說現在在塞車因為現在我也不知道怎麼去做這件事情但是他們會期待說不要等一個小時半在臺北只好等著塞車回基隆這點是我必須要跟部長說這邊請部長這邊要大力大力去推動這個案子是這個部分我們來跟客運業者大家來協調一個臨時應變的基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6064.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6077.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
還有另外一個就是也是我今天針對今天早上這個大同路戲那個戲子大同路火災所想到的我記得上個會期好像有提過說要把國一從五堵這邊要拓寬對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6078.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6095.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
五堵到五堵到七堵這邊要拓寬的案子這個可能要請這個那個部長之後日後要追蹤一下那我期待說我回去幫那邊縣長辦個會館因為目前看起來不管什麼時段從那個汐止到五堵這邊永遠是塞車的 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6096.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6122.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
市中原市拆車除非半夜不然從北上五堵西直到五堵這邊天天在拆車甚至有人跟我提過說能不能直接開放路間直接遍地三條線那當然是對安全來講是很大的很大的危險但是我會覺得說這個案子這個拓寬的案子我記得上個會期就有委員提到這個事情那我覺得這個案子的話請交通部這邊給我們一個報告甚至跟我們講騎乘那怎麼樣去做會更好一點好不好好謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6128.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6132.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
好,謝謝林佩祥委員。接下來有請何新淳委員發言。呃,謝謝主席,還有我們盧昭偉。呃,我們請那個陳世凱部長。好,交通部陳部長。部長好。哎,委員好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6154.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6179.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
在進入這個臺鐵的諮詢之前還是在提醒在拜託對我們臺中清泉鋼機場的國際航線你要全力來支持要增加這個一定會支持一定支持跟民航局、核軍隊有特別交代一定要支持好那我們希望在近期內可以看到那接著我要問臺我們的軌道部長來自臺中所以對 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6180.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6208.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
台中捷運路網非常清楚那我們現在呢台中捷運已經落後台北30年了這個昨天市府自己講的那我們現在要拼這個全線推進全線開工那這個需要很大很大中央的支持我現在先整理出來這個部長應該也非常熟悉大屏幕的屯區的環狀線現在台中市政府可行性研究在修正當中那藍線呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6210.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6234.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
已經核定那基本設計現在交通部正在審議那藍線還有一個延伸太平屯區的是我們縣政府對不起臺中市政府可行性研究也還在修正當中那中央也支持我知道我們過去那個李部長也很支持局限呢我們呢已經呢基本原則同意同意那現在可行性研究要修正修正報告這個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6237.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6254.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
十月一號交通部已經收到那現在正在審議當中那還有兩條線就是局線的延伸清水我們希望台中市政府可以提出這個可行性的一個評估那我們中央來補助這個部分補助沒有問題現在等台中市政府提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6255.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6275.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
那我們還爭取一個崇德豐原縣那台中市政府已經提出中央已經合訂了1170萬來辦理所謂的可行性研究我們會補助1170萬這個你們已經合訂了啦各位部長上次有承諾那也真的馬上說到做到了所以非常感謝那當然綠線的延伸這個我們也繼續在推動當中那我現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6280.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6294.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
基本上就是要請部長支持一件事因為之前的李孟業、李部長有支持我在7月8號有考察我們臺中的捷運路網那時候在我們的臺中火車站裡面那裡有一個藍線跟橘線會交叉 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6295.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6310.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
交叉的轉乘站目前我們是在甘城離台中市的火車站這個平台大概動線有380公尺所以我們那一次考察的時候有認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6311.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6335.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
方向決議距離的動線這個380公尺希望把它縮短不管用什麼方式我相信這個是專業上技術上一定做得到的因為我們可以預期預期未來這個臺中市捷運入網成型之後這裡的一個轉運的樞紐還有這個人潮一定是非常多的所以我接著就要問一下部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6337.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6352.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
我剛剛提到了現在的捷運藍線、橘線是在台中車站的甘城交會那距離380公尺非常不方便那甘城之後我們在7月8號的那一次考察我們不管藍綠的立委 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6354.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6371.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
還有了很多的市議員有提出一個建議那個建議就是在現行規劃於臺中車站甘城的那個站交會之外我們有沒有可能在增設一站是比較連結這個臺鐵的火車站比較近距離的 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6376.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6402.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
那這個部分我現在就要問說之前的李孟彥部長他支持共戰那希望解決這個問題那現在呢我碰到一個當時候考察時候也提到大車站計畫裡面我們曾經有一個臺鐵的都更那這個都更現在目前的進度呢因為從107年就提出來了對目前正在進行這個都更的過程那這個過程應該是在臺鐵局長要不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6407.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6411.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
這個因為上一次會刊跟委員報告上一次會刊那個就是我們上次交通委員會去考察啦我記得不分藍綠的委員都到了那考察現場委員應該清楚就是說本來我們這個都更的規劃都已經完成了要提報可是因為現在那個預計那個車站會往南移嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6435.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6451.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
那所以說他那個不是往南移喔那個方案有好幾個方案喔我還記得7月8號考察的現場除了現在既有的規劃的方案ABC之外我們又有一個公司提出另外一個方案是說甘城不動 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6452.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6480.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
不移因為你們早就公告早就已經讓地方知道說那裡會有一個甘城站那我們現在是希望解決380公尺的距離那這個動線我們希望這個廊道不是戶外可以呢戶外跟室內兼顧那室內呢考量成本我們有好幾個方案其中一個方案是什麼我們有沒有可能再增設一站捷運的捷運站 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6482.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6485.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
離台中車站比較近的捷運站再增設一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6487.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6511.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
主那次的考察是我主持的所以我記得很清楚所以我們現在希望是不分藍綠的委員的共識我們要解決這一個大平台380公尺的這一個距離如何能夠把它化為是安全舒適而且是未來真的達到轉運效果的那那個方案是什麼那牽涉到你的都更啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6512.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6526.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
那個應該跟委包應該這樣齁就是說在那個可言裡面他如果把這個方案定下來以後我們就可以馬上來推動報告委員其實台中市政府如果把方案定說要經過台鐵的那一塊地台鐵 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6528.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6547.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
臺鐵會來配合那如果臺中市政府提出交通部一定支持因為這個真的對兩站的那個距離的拉近相當有幫助那這個部分會照委員您所建議的方案來進行但要由臺中市政府他們來提但是我現在碰到一個問題啊總不能大家等來等過去啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6548.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6570.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
你說你要等臺中市政府那臺中市政府說啊臺鐵的這個都跟怎樣所以兩方我記得在7月8號的考察那個會議現場我們也有要求臺鐵跟臺中市政府能夠組成一個溝通平臺定期的來討論這一件事情那到底有沒有組成有沒有談過啊之前有談過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6573.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6589.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
之前沒有談到現在還沒有談過從7月8號到現在現在10月中旬了您今天提到這件事我們趕快要求鐵道局也好臺鐵公司也好主動的去找臺中市政府來討論這件事是嗎是要快速來解決這個問題我再拜託部長拜託我們董事長拜託局長、楊局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6594.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6607.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
這個真的要兩方面中央地方大家一起合作不要說誰在等誰不要等來等去你看從7月8號的考察到現在10月中旬了單來單過去本來說要建立一個溝通平台要成立一個專案小組也好或者是溝通平台也好要定期的來開會溝通結果到現在等了三個多月了也還沒等到原來連第一次都還沒有我現在是拜託好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6624.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6638.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
我們主動去建立這個溝通平台我們定期的跟台中市政府來溝通我們希望台中市政府趕快確定是不是在甘城之外可以增設這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6641.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6659.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
結運站然後呢把這個距離380公尺的這個從結運的這個藍線跟橘線的這個交匯處到中間的這個客運的轉運站到我們火車站這380公尺的這個距離我們真的要想出一個最好的方法來解決嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6661.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6689.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
那以現在的科技以現在的專業我相信一定做得到的所以拜託主動跟臺中市政府溝通因為一旦這個增設的這個站體有確定你們的都更才有可能確定嘛那你雙方都確定的時候才可以進行招商你的資產才可以活化你這個大火車站的計畫才能夠完整嘛你要知道我們臺中的城區要 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6691.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6717.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
發展就是靠你們啦拜託啦主動一點好不好我們一起努力是我要求他們主動而且快速的去跟台中市政府是是是是這樣子我們才能夠帶動台中城區的發展好不好部長拜託那什麼時候可以給我消息你們什麼時候要主動盡快給委員書盡快你先你現在今天會後就趕快定時間好不好會後直接去找找你報告好不好好謝謝好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6721.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6741.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
好,謝謝何新春委員,現在請魯明哲委員上臺好,謝謝主席,有請我們數位部黃部長國防部楊基隆、楊次長,謝謝委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6749.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6769.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
好 這個部長還有我們國防部次長謝謝次長今天撥空過來那因為最近你剛剛也做了一個簡報國防部包括因為財產申報有一些不該留出來的名冊留到了不該的位置那現在這個問題但是對數位部來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6772.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6801.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
這是我們兩年前你現在成立你也兩歲了成立數位部大家的一個期待我們一直在想到底有沒有做到做到多少事實上這兩年來各個機關政府機關那民間的都不算了很多的資料外洩一室一室外流這等等的這個事件一直不斷那直到了我們最近這個國安部這個問題那我先請次長說明一下好不好就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6802.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6819.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
財產申報然後把這個很多的高層國防部各單位的應該要申報的人員顯然都是蠻高層的作為一個附件這個整包送出啊那送發的對象有多少人多少單位Mail給多少人 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6820.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6842.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
跟委員報告一下這個送發的對象就有28個單位28個單位嗎28個單位對28個單位因為他送發的途徑是經由我們軍網的軍網這個軍網的這個系統來做公文做電子公文的傳輸OK是軍網那你28個單位都在同一個基地嗎全台灣各地嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6844.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6872.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
對,也不是說全臺灣問題,就是在大概……都是走你們,全臺灣走你們的軍網?是,是,走我們的軍網。好,那第二個呢,發生這個問題的時候,你做了一個很重要的動作,叫回收。是。回收的意義是什麼?一個Mail出去,這樣啦,我們常常自己PO文啦,我們不管走什麼網,LINE不小心PO出去了。像我們沛翔委員有時候,誒,不該弄的照片,假設被我看到了,他收回沒有用,你知道嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6873.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6899.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
或他突然罵我一句收回沒有我不太懂啊這個處理的方式當然你收回不再擴張那可是其實對於有一些機密資料要外洩的時候你送到單位兩個最主要的問題收件人那邊可不可能收件的單位他已經看到不管通過截圖或者任何一個方式然後甚至他存留 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6900.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6918.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
他搞不好有時候好意不好意有時候我們發覺常常消息漏出去是好意你知道嗎你看我跟怎麼樣怎麼樣這個什麼事情所以這第一個我覺得某種程度的危險資安的危險是已經造成了部長你覺得我講的對不對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6919.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6938.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
他現在收回他現在你你現在在收回的部分其實如果人家該要留存的或者你的軍網我們真的希望他是百分之百安全啦一方面是在網路上可能被截走第二方面是在接收端可能會被傳出去你們這樣的這樣好吧市長你先講你會不會擔心啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6940.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6958.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
市長你會不會擔心跟委員報告我們這份公文首先回答委員第一個問題就是這份公文我剛剛報告過就是說軍網這樣傳輸但是都在我們內部的環境裡面那我們內部的環境它是有實體隔離的所以它不會隨隨便便就外流到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6960.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6985.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
一般的民間或公務機關去。這都在我們軍網裡面傳輸。那這個傳輸出去之後,剛剛您問的,說怎麼回收?通常它再回到我們的這個伺服器來。對,我知道啦。它收件人如果存入另外一個檔案或怎麼樣,它已經存了。不管是用PDF、DOC檔案,它要存就存了啦。你也沒辦法控制。最重要說,這麼神秘,我怎麼會知道? |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6987.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7008.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
這麼神秘軍網完全不洩漏我們28個單位都是很棒不會有媒體知道不會有外界知道你自己去想但是我覺得擔心一件事因為你剛剛講說感覺好像問題不大其實我覺得我是蠻憂心的因為在這次我們最近我們看現在戰爭形態變化太大我們看以巴這個戰士 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7010.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7010.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長進行專題報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7039.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7040.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
所以除外除了國防部之外還有誰? |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7074.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7093.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
所以你們過去兩年任何的一個作為我們問了半天所很多的問題你們要做的一個防護都進不了國防部因為國防部給你們所建立一個資安不管一個新的想法觀念因為唐豐部長講的太多了全國最新的一個潮流進不了國防部嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7094.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7120.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
沒有 報告委員我們跟國防部雖然治安法沒有納管國防部但是國防部是我們情資協防的體系之一所以我們會有任何的攻擊情資我們會給國防部參考那國防部如果收集到攻擊情資他也會跟我們交流所以他是整體的國家的整體治安聯防的體系之一我們是有密切的合作只是說沒有納管他其實我覺得我第二個憂心就在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7122.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7137.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
因為我們希望我們國防部一切都很棒資安你也是第一名你比數位部還要強所有的先進的知識所有的跟數位現在的所有的攻擊你隨時都掌握這是我的期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7139.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7154.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
可是國軍內部我們現在的一個狀況是希望委員你都最好都不要什麼問這個也不要問那個也不要知道你那個知道的事你可能就可能泄密你可能就是不挺台灣可是問題就是我們就像我是最挺你們啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7155.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7182.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
國安部我們盡量不去問你們國軍辛苦啦!挺了半天我覺得你們內部這麼專業到什麼樣一個程度我們也看到我們數位部這兩年直接導入零信任的機制結果確實沒有國安部嘛!包括自行導入的機關也沒有寫到國安部國安部在你們的數位部成立之後我們原本希望對於全國所謂私安就是國安 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7183.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7210.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
司安就是國安但是國防更是國安啊所以你司安做好了你國防完完全全沒有辦法去納入或者把你們新建的一些制度把它進入導入的話我是覺得你的零信任制度原來到了國防部變成零接觸你跟他沒有接觸你的新的方法反正你也不用來看當然可能因為一些保密的一個機制啦所以這時候就會有兩個要件第一個你國防部自己要 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7211.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7213.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
二、邀請交通部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵道局局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7235.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7236.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
今年單純是委員員的疏失 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7264.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7291.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
人員變了嗎人員也是新人所以新的主管加新人可是問題是你知道這個部分因為治安你們自己去做可是對我來講我們外人後面看到了如果你們比一些公司的管制制度叫做double check或者系統幫你check系統發覺他有一些系統我不知道你會發展到這個地步如果沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7292.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7302.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
你要存...請問一下是只有一個人的書師還有上級的主管有幾層去...這個資料出去經過了幾層人合格總共有五個人所以五個人都不知道沒看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7308.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7322.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
所以我可以這樣講說這件事情發生除了基層的我們都以為只有基層的人不小心小指一按所以這個部分以你們制度至少不管怎麼樣的不管電子簽或書面簽網上簽有簽到你嘛對不對是 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7327.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7354.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
好吧我今天其實請數位部來我們是希望數位部在資訊方面在資安方面甚至署長來要給你們很大的幫忙但是我覺得如果你們零接觸只是資訊的分享那我們現在只能期待你內部有非常好的管理機制但顯然現在是看到沒有所以次長可能要跟部長說我覺得這不是個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7355.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7374.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
一夜之秋到底還有任何一個情況在現在的一個戰爭模式上面我真的是希望你們要好好保護國軍這些的不管是將領一級的一個主管尤其我們的情報人員我覺得這個部分你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7376.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7405.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
不能這樣我覺得太疏忽了你做個結論好不好是是謝謝委員剛剛的指導我在這邊再跟委員報告一遍的確啦這個是我們承辦人員還有這個合適主管他的疏忽他並沒有去把這個電子公務裡面有關於這個附件這名冊的附件把它做個區隔所以有些部分比較機敏的人員他的他包含在這個名冊裡面那因為這個名冊本身他也只是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7407.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7431.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
職務、職稱跟姓名他並沒有涉及到其他有關於個人的這些事市長不要再這樣講啦不要再這樣講我跟委員做說明跟委員做說明說另外一個這是真的就是純粹是這個人為疏忽這個我們我們必須要去檢討那這個資安上我們也去檢視一下在資安上我們是沒有問題現在國防部這個資安要求都是非常高的市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7432.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7433.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
有專業人士在這裡你們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7454.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7472.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
不涉及機密的情況我覺得事實上要跟你們的友軍專業單位做密切的交流最後我想請問一下最後我們政風你是政風處長嗎政風是主任主任嘛主任主任那你簽這個完之後你再上層簽給誰啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7475.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7476.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
好 謝謝盧銘哲委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7514.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7516.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
好接下來有請陳樹葉召委發言好謝謝主席請主席邀請陳部長還有杜葳董交通部陳部長杜董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7538.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7561.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
部長早 委員好那就是針對今天我們就是這個臺鐵公司如何精進服務品質等等的這個議題那我們剛剛有看到就是說我們臺鐵公司董事長也有做這個報告就是大概針對幾個方向就是人員的待遇問題還有行車安全準點率還有行車投入 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7561.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7562.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
長站服務、鐵道觀光等。 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7577.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7600.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
起信會做調整我覺得這是一個好消息我想這個對於臺鐵公司的人員的服務的士氣應該是會有所鼓勵的那當然還是很多人在關心有關的這個初期獎金、夜點費還有這個危險津貼等等那這些是不是可以請部長再說明一下這個部分有沒有可能做調整那什麼時候會做調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7603.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7628.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
這次我們做的調整是基礎的底薪從業人員的部分我們先把它拉高那其他的部分我們陸續會來推進其他的部分我會一步一步來推進我知道臺鐵的員工們大家對於這方面的期待其實蠻高但是說實在的這個薪水的調整公司化之後我們一直在討論那我們目前先落實第一步把從業人員的這個薪水先拉高 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7628.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7651.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
跟我們的流用人員大家拉的比較接近一些才不會說同工不同酬的狀況我們希望這個部分先拉高那其他的部分我們跟臺鐵的董事長還在討論當中那這個部分我的態度其實很清楚我們從基層的員工的加薪開始努力基層先加之後再考慮高層的部分所以基層的部分我們會先努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7652.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7670.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
本席這邊是很肯定我們部長這邊這樣子的一個做法我們也知道臺鐵這個服務就是交通服務當然就是以人為主體所以你要讓這個臺鐵的員工有服務的熱忱才能夠提升這個品質我覺得這是最基本的 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7670.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7695.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
因為我們要讓這個臺鐵的員工讓他們在就是工作因為他們的工作負擔壓力還有工時這樣的考量下要平衡就是要對等就是他們的報酬跟他們的付出要能夠平衡我想這樣子才能夠讓他們有這個服務的熱忱然後相對的才能夠提升這個品質我想這個是最基本的所以這個是很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7696.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7704.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
其次再來就是其實你要提升這個服務品質我覺得安全是最重要的安全是最重要對那我們也看到就是說我們為了要提升臺鐵的這個安全所以我們在這個2020年也有啟動了一個這個標案就是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7714.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7733.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
臺鐵電務智慧化提升計畫耗制連鎖系統更新統包工程我想這個工程的目的就是希望提升這個準點率還有這個安全可是這樣子的一個標案目前進度大落後這個標案不曉得部長清楚嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7733.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7748.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
而這個我清楚目前他們報給我的資訊到現在為止他們落後大概37%左右進度上確實是落後相當多那跟西門子之間的這個溝通的過程當中也確實相當辛苦臺鐵也組成了這個專案的小組 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7750.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7776.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
隨時在跟這個西門子在做這個工程上的溝通不過也跟委員報告就是說目前我們整個安全的這個系統的部分不會因為這個工程的延宕而有所影響因為現在目前安全的系統都還是正常運行當中只不過這個系統我們是希望未來更先進化更強化那這個部分後續的部分我們會繼續來追我們希望進度能夠趕快追上那跟西門子之間的溝通的落差能夠趕快補上 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7777.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7806.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
是那進度落後部長去了解原因在哪裡嗎?為什麼會進度落後?我覺得有幾個方面一方面就是說當時的飆商他的能力這是一個方面第二個方面是甲乙雙方也就是業主跟得標的廠商之間對於合約的這個認知的落差其實花了蠻多時間在溝通然後還有就是說西門子也就是得標的廠商他們在臺灣這邊的這個工作人員的量能 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7807.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7828.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
似乎是不足的那這個部分確實是有問題是就是說除了部長講的這些問題之外啊那本席所了解的就是說其中有一個我覺得這是一個很重要可能也是很嚴重的問題就是設計規範的問題我了解到的訊息好像是說我們臺鐵要求的對方不願意做有這種情形嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7829.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7848.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
他們給我的報告是有這種情形有時候是不願意那有時候是說他沒這個材料但是當時的設計就是照這個設計影響到這個整個完成之後的安全性的問題所以我覺得這個部分我想可能就是所有問題之中最嚴重的一個點吧是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7849.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7873.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
我們所有的進行都要合法合規而且要合乎當時的契約那即便是裡面有些零件或許現在沒有生產或者是無法使用那也要必須要用臺鐵能夠接受而且是可用的零件我們才會答應他那這個部分其實臺鐵他們有專案在處理對,所以有能力善後嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7875.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7897.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
該委員報告我們在努力剛剛委員提到一點很重要就是說我們還是以安全為前提今天我們照合約走也許大家的認知有點落差但是他提出來的案子解決的案子我們一定想審一定是安全的我們才會接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7898.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7917.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
對我們就是說在整個這個標案裡面就是安全為前提嗎那也不能說為了進度的問題然後有所退讓我想還是要以這個行車安全最終的一個考量是那我們也希望就是說部長這邊應該就是要積極的來督促臺鐵來解決這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7922.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7938.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
臺鐵有一個美學小組在各縣市的車站包括臺南車站、新竹車站還有英哥車站都在進行美學工程的改造計畫那我想請教一下在彰化縣有沒有這樣子的一個改造計畫我們請杜董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7939.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7964.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
有有那個像現在我們二水站就是我們美學那個小組裡面就是有設審議有在進行的一個車站改造的計畫是那個二水車站也是集齊線的起點那它的歷史也超過百年了就是在日治時期建造的所以目前也登錄為限定的一個古蹟所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7966.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7983.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
以目前來講那這個支線就是也是一個觀光一個很重要的一個觀光的重點的支線那二水也是一個很漂亮的一個小鎮那我們也希望就是說透過這個二水車站的一個改造能夠帶動地方的一個觀光的一個發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7984.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8000.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
因為這邊蠻漂亮的部長如果有空可以來走一走因為他在過年的時候過年的時候那個花季啊就是那個櫻花盛開的時候那邊那個觀光客蠻多的那提到二水車站本席就要再講一下這個田中車站 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8002.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8030.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
這田中車站我覺得讓地方的民眾真的很失望就是說我們的這個工程一直延宕延宕到現在然後毫無進度所以就是說去年在馬拉松舉辦的時候我們就很多民眾就是針對那個施工的鐵架的問題就是說會影響到那個外觀因為有國際觀光客來可是到今年又過了一年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8030.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8048.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
我不曉得現在的狀況到底如何我們希望能夠再跟我們報告舊田中車站的裝修跟整理的工程我們現在已經在招標當中現在公告目標是希望在年底之前能夠決標跟開工 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8051.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8076.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
開工之後我們也希望就是說在這個工程的進度一定要掌握不要延宕因為之前為了一個電梯的一個工程就延宕那麼多年了然後也造成外面的那個就是行人那個坡道那個行走的空間都受到很大的影響我覺得這個對整個地方讓地方的民眾包括旅客對我們臺鐵的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8079.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8080.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
臺鐵轉型為公司化之後,面臨未來營運績效問題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8100.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8100.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
臺鐵公司有蠻多的進帳 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8130.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8144.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
是,因為我看到的這是我看到的資料好像說整體營收有突破了一億元就是截至去年底那所以本席在這邊就有一個想法就是說事實上我們最近都在關注說臺鐵的那個車票要不要漲價這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8147.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8149.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
一般通勤的票價 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8176.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8184.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
我覺得可能就盡量不要不要有調漲的這樣子的一個方向了。部長您覺得呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8185.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8208.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
報告委員我們還是希望在通勤面上面對民眾的影響要降到最低所以即便要討論票價我們也希望在票價上面對於通勤的民眾通勤需求的民眾影響降到最低這個部分我一定會確保是好那台鐵的全新的觀光列車就是這個海豐號跟山南號就是11月就要上路了嘛是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8210.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8221.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
對,海豐號是年底年底?年底是11月還是12月?12月12月那山南號呢?山南號應該是在明年的第一季 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8222.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8244.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
第一季,那山南號目前要停靠的站都還沒有規劃嗎?目前因為我們這次跟那個熊獅來做合作夥伴那現在海豐號的路線應該就是走我們的海線那山南號的話,初步的規劃是到花東的山線山南號是花東,西部幹線沒有走嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8245.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8269.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
對但是要跟委員報告因為我們山南海豐比較特別因為我們這個車子他不是走固定區段的所以他過了半年一年以後都會有所調整就是我們環島路網各地區都會看到他們的身影所以如果說要到二水來我們後續規劃可以現在就把它規劃好 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8271.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8286.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
本席希望未來規劃的行駛路線要把我們彰化縣尤其是二水要放進去因為我們彰化縣其實還有很多的觀光的資源跟潛力那當然就是要大家資源一起配合謝謝謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8292.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8302.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
好,謝謝陳書業、趙偉做一下宣告,待會發言到徐富奎委員發言完畢之後休息10分鐘接下來有請林俊憲委員發言感謝主席,本時邀請我們交通部陳部長交通部陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8322.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8331.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
部長我也好今天跟你談一下我們台南市的捷運這個目前的直轄市六都裡面只有台南市沒有捷運 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8332.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8353.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
臺南的捷運規劃從賴總統擔任臺南市長的時候就開始了那在經過這幾年黃市長的努力那目前我們還有一些需要交通部能夠盡速幫忙支持的其中在前任部長的時候我有特別跟他爭取到臺南捷運黃線黃色這條線的2500萬規劃的經費因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8361.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8386.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
因為在整個的捷運路網裡面我們才發現人口第二大的安南區它目前人口是台南市的行政區裡面第二多的它竟然沒有捷運所以我們需要做一條黃色的線從大概南區北區的交界點經過北區到安南區它主要在安南區然後一直到新市南科 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8387.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8412.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
讓南科的在南科工作的人他可以有更多的交通選擇那也希望可以讓南科的效應能夠擴散到其他的區域來那這個部分因為是從零開始所以他的規劃經費2500萬那當時前部長有答應那因為現在部長來了我希望前部長能夠這個部分來給台南市支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8413.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8426.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
報告委員這是您當時爭取的那之前的部長有答應那當然政策上是要延續的這個是沒有問題不過這個案子到現在台南市政府還沒有送過來交通部那如果送過來我們會趕快來研議協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8428.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8456.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
他不是沒有他只是要跟你要經費他要去做規劃他現在是還沒有他要申請的部分還沒有你錢給他以後他才做一個案子送進來可是他申請的部分還沒有申請我們等他來申請的部分會來申請那第二個臺南捷運還有一條紅線那這個紅線就是這幾天高雄也在提起的高雄市那邊也在提的就是南部兩都啦臺南跟高雄的捷運有沒有串聯 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8457.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8478.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
那怎麼個串聯法?在哪裡串聯?那這條紅線就是台南到高雄的捷運小站那現在決定的台南高雄捷運結合在什麼地方呢?在仁德的嘉南藥理大學 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8479.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8502.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
加藥這一站、嘉南苗栗大學這個地方的歌詠的捷運照告者但是他要換車啦因為高雄的捷運系統跟台南不一樣所以高雄的捷運跟台南捷運在仁德的嘉南藥理大學這裡來轉成然後我們開一條紅線從仁德一直到接到台南市的東區 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8505.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8531.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
那這條紅線目前已經送來交通部了那請交通部能夠加快速度來審議因為這裡用這條線甚至可以延伸到那個高鐵站去如果你再打成藍線的話甚至可以到南科所以這個已經送到交通部九月剛送到那這個部分我們來加速審議好 都先保證另外有一條藍線藍線的延長線 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8534.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8534.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
或稱為深藍線。 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8548.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8572.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
明年底或後年初大概就可以動工了,但是最快速度就是藍線。藍線現在還有一個深藍線的延長線,它怎麼延長呢?它就是對林地、仁德轉運站,經過林地歸林,尾站到官廟、國中,到官廟,也就是串聯藍關線。那部長你知道現在藍關線是台南未來發展很重要的一個區塊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8574.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8575.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
因為高鐵特區的里歸人像總統、賴總統前兩個禮拜就到 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8581.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8602.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
歸人高鐵的砂輪去主持中研院南部分院的啟用典禮現在大概國家可以很多幾乎所有的重要的單位都往歸人砂輪這個地方來所以這條捷運的延長線就很重要就是臨時歸零到關廟,未曾在關廟過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8606.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8627.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
深南線往南到台南高鐵站,在差不多臨北的中山路,它有一個交叉,這裏看起來變成淺南線,在仁德的中山路一定要有交叉,一條往南延伸到台南高鐵站,這裏,臨北中山路,在這裏還有隔地站,所以你等下隔地站回來, |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8629.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8643.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
結印線到仁德你可以再轉過來到仁德然後轉仙人線你甚至可以到南科啦到南科因為往南道到高鐵站那現在的可見性研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8644.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8670.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
已經送到交通部,也送到交通部了是現在加交通部,進速來跟我們審議好嗎?這個我們加速加柏林趕快來支持啦臺南已經起步比較晚了六都就只有臺南沒有捷運那現在整體入房的已經成型了希望交通部加快速度要給台南機器好,這個我們來加速好,那另外我也本席也邀請我們臺鐵臺鐵道局 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8674.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8676.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
台鐵財務吃緊現在票價又不給你漲但台鐵有一個生意最好收入非常穩定持續每年都大賺錢的就是賣便當 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8699.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8699.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
臺鐵賣便當 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8712.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8722.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
我感覺都很好吃都很好吃要注意那個杜局長你要注意齁現在有人反映他臺鐵的便當菜色是不是質量的問題啦還有我們賣便當的同仁齁先不可以稍微這樣這樣笑頭笑臉多啦可能生意太好齁所以賣便當賣到臉色都很難看 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8731.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8739.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
這我會故意這個服務也要改善因為這個對你來講非常重要臺鐵去年賣了快要900萬個便當這不簡單全台灣最大型的便當店就是台鐵你去年賺多少錢你知道嗎?收了7億多便當收到7億多賺一個2300萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8755.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8781.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
但這樣的利潤我不知道是不是合理啦你的存利率只有17%啦是你看便當賣了7億多我們有比較親民的價位親民的價位是良心價還是說你成本沒有管控啦我不知道啦但是今年獲利會更驚人啦今年1到9月啊臺鐵已經就賣了700萬個便當比2022年全年都多啦那今年我看這個營業額絕對會破7億啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8784.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8799.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
那賺的錢今年一到九月賺的錢已經比去年2023年全年都還要多所以我們這個生意已經變成台鐵一個特色那其實可以更加的活化來推廣了我給你參考一下日本 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8800.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8815.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
日本甚至做到每一個站都有特賣的便當東京、公道口每一個站都有搞特色出來其實臺鐵是臺灣最重要的縱貫交通線之一你曾經跟各縣市合作過你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8816.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8833.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
那部長你知道嗎?我們國館期齁東北都有特色的農漁產品嘛那辦一個各縣市的便當節齁那臺鐵辦了以後就好像沒什麼就那幾天而已啦其實你可以對,他們是以活動的方式啦這樣比較可惜 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8833.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8836.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營鐵道局局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8856.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8857.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
二、邀請交通部鐵路股份有限公司董事長進 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8880.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8906.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
那今年我不知道怎麼樣臺南市就沒有參加了今年又一個鐵路便當節了我是覺得臺鐵應該要只有各地方政府那地方政府來來來臺鐵也幫你促銷嘛對不對因為臺鐵便當節吸引很大的注意也可以結合臺南400年一起來辦一個活動之後看可不可以繼續延續下去甚至可以延伸到各縣市區好不好希望臺鐵已經有這樣一個基礎能夠更認真好好的來賣便當好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8916.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
8928.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
臺鐵時代其實是有一些公益性質啦你看你的票其實你跟其他國家比起來臺灣的大眾運輸票價都非常非常的良心價啦那你只好自己去找裁員啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
8931.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
8953.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
這是我一個建議啦好感謝部長剛剛那個捷運黃線的這個可研究經費我們已經合訂了已經合訂了80萬對啦補充報告剛剛訊息沒有完部長你有聽到嗎我特別感謝這有分兩年合訂嗎有分兩年補助這2500萬已經有著落了當然一部分是市政府配合款嘛好謝謝部長好謝謝市長好謝謝局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
8958.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
8974.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
好 謝謝林委員接下來有請徐副國務委員發言謝謝主席 有請我們陳部長還有我們鐵道局楊局長楊局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
8986.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9002.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
部長、局長早安今天本期用很沉重的心情站在這個地方要來質詢我想最近這個高鐵的這個難免的議題這個不管是在我們立法院也好還有高雄市議會也好費費揚揚 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9004.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9029.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
那我要請教部長的是從我印象最深刻現在我們總統府的潘茂安秘書長在2005年擔任立委的任內就開始在追蹤所謂的高鐵南延屏東這個案子一直到2019年我們蘇貞昌前院長正式核定了這個高鐵南延屏東而且路線也都確定了為什麼到目前我們還在討論這個路線的問題難道有什麼狀況嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9034.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9061.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
請部長回答其實過去最早我聽到的是有6個方案後來變成4個方案那最近我們收斂成是兩個方案在討論就是高雄案跟左營案那漸漸收斂我們還是希望照李前部長他當時的宣示我們在年底之前交通部要來公告說要走哪一個方案要來決定這件事情所以年底的這個計畫不會延宕我們年底一定會來確定路線 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9062.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9084.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
部長本席還是要提醒這個剛剛我聽到林俊憲委員說臺南沒有捷運這聽起來我很心酸的啦我們屏東沒有捷運也沒有高鐵有機場也不能用我們陸海空的交通真的完全完全都在西部縣是完全非常的一個落後啦部長你覺得這樣正常不然我們付資金來改善一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9086.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9102.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
我們現在作為執政黨當然要負責任來解決屏東的行的問題過去幾十年甚至是幾百年屏東的交通的建設確實是落後到其他縣市非常非常多尤其跟西部的其他都市比起來那這個部分我們加緊腳步加緊腳步 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9104.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9128.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
部長我想本席對你很有信心尤其你上任之後我們也聊了很多關於屏東這個交通建設的事情那我也相信部長一直都有包含我們的鐵路的運輸軌道建設也好包含我們屏南快速道路包含高捷的一個進度我想部長跟我們局長大家都有在掌握但是我們期待的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9129.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9144.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
不管哪一條方案,我們都支持趕快定案、趕快動工,這才是屏東人的期待。沒錯。不要給我們汙聞民話說,今天高雄被拆房子是因為屏東造成的,這個對屏東人來講扛不起這個責任啊,部長。是。 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9146.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9159.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
這個部分我們會努力啦對社會的說明也好對地方的說明也好剛才在講的兩個方案不管是走左營案或者是走高雄案其實對地方還是會有一些影響那這個影響我們會來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9161.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9168.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
部長我記得上個會期我們王國材前部長我就問過這個問題那時候我們的啟程是2019年我們那時候開始啟動2029年要完工動開始我們的運行結果現在已經2024年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9178.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9197.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
到現在連路線在哪裡就還沒確定這是要怎麼對屏東人做交代是啦 不能讓屏東的鄉親覺得這個案子一直在拖或者是說一直說沒有做啦所以交通部既定的立場就是我們希望在年底一定要定案對於路線的部分要做定案這樣才能夠進入下一步 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9198.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9198.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
的進度。 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9223.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9227.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
二、若高雄市受影響部分也希望我們部裡面積極來溝通。我們有責任要來溝通。 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9243.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9270.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
另外我想第二個問題就是我們屏東這邊我們的高捷紅線有延伸到我們所謂的臨邊道東港這個路線那因為之前我們有知道我們在大概在高雄端有這個一線到底的一個問題那高雄市好像比較堅持這個方案那另外就是針對這個林園市化貢業區這部分的這個到底要是要高價化還是要走前段這部分不曉得目前有沒有比較最新的一個進度還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9272.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9289.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
我們現在齁這個系統還是希望他走高價輕軌的方式如果用高價輕軌的方式可能是比較適合屏東這一端那目前可行性研究正在進行當中那也送到鐵道局了鐵道局在審查那我是不是請鐵道局長來回應一下好跟完報告齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9291.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9305.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
這個案子屏東縣政府最近有送回來但是因為這個就是林園這一段在高雄跟在屏東這個地方高架的這個部分石化廠這個議題我們要持續來跟屏東縣政府跟高雄市政府來溝通協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9308.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9328.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
能不能再加快施展這個我們一定加速來辦理尤其我想這個這也要跟部長請命因為其實對我們來講我們當然希望一車道理但是這牽扯到這個經費分攤的部分變動觀念再講比較困難如果我們交通部可以來多幫忙一點有沒有辦法克服這個一車道理這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9331.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9350.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
一車到底要溝通,因為屏東縣政府有他的想法,然後高雄市政府有他的想法,這兩邊的想法我們在中間當然會協助來溝通。對,部長所以本市都一直很擔心,尤其剛剛高鐵那個案子,回過頭來我再講那個案子,你如果今天進高雄市,好,現在我紅磅也在拖啦, |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9352.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9370.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
在進行評估之後會不會時間越拖越長我們都擔心這個問題因為有新的方案出來就會有新的討論就會有很多的想法地方有很多的意見時間真的不能等所以我們會加速溝通而且要落實溝通讓地方上大家能夠理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9371.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9385.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
這個方案或那個方案哪一個方案比較好那對民眾的影響我們也會盡量降到最低大家擔心的部分我們會盡量去跟民眾說明我們如何用工程的方式或者是用交違的方式來降低民眾的影響跟擔心 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9386.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9408.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
部長那第三個就針對我們下禮拜一我們有排交通委員會的考察會看一下恆春機場那恆春機場其實是一個很重要的一個尤其對我們這個整個墾丁恆春的觀光是一個很重要那之前我知道縣政府一直有在啟動所謂一個包機也好一些計畫但是有牽扯到跟軍方的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9408.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9423.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
一切的問題還有一個所謂的一個洛杉磅的一個天后因素那這部分有沒有機會能夠重新再做這樣一個評估,要不然這放在那邊、趴在那邊也不可以討論怎麼樣做一個活化的一個規劃是這個機場一直都在那個地方那我們部內也在討論說機場整體的活化的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9426.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9450.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
那天候的問題其實我們用技術上可不可以再精進一點那雖然幅度不一定有辦法做到很確很落實或者很大但是我們在技術上或者是科技的層面上怎麼讓克服這個天候的問題這一方面二方面其實包機的補助的部分我們也在思考看有沒有辦法再做更多的這個優惠方案來促銷來讓包機能夠進來墾丁這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9452.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9470.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
對,尤其你看我們對整個我們東南亞,如果說我們可以直接包機直接到鳳春機場,我們可以在地這樣子做一個整個南台灣的一個旅遊,我相信很有賣點啦。是。這也節省很多的交通時間,因為現在很多,我們很多的這個亞洲的國家的旅客都必須飛到桃園,還坐高鐵就來,浪費很多時間的啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9473.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9496.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
這部分我們再來努力啦,那拜師傅請部長我們也來講一下怎麼樣來協助我們這個肯定的觀光業能夠繼續的蓬勃發展啊好不好好好好謝謝好謝謝委員好謝謝許委員好因為我們蔡理事長委員已經等了蠻久的我們先請蔡理事長委員發言,發言完再休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9502.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9512.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
好特別謝謝主席請交通部陳部長跟交通部陳部長杜董事長臺鐵公司杜董事長好謝謝兩位早我看了一下臺鐵公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9529.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9546.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
這個營業項目的收支概況也就是我們簡單講臺鐵公司的財務狀況這個看起來今年那個杜董事長應該你們的預估是虧淨利是虧74億是嗎是明年還是虧明年還是那杜董事長這個財務狀況裡面你認為虧損主要來自於哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9556.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9575.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
虧損如果是以帳面價值來看就是會計帳來看的話主要的原因是我們的折舊很龐大那折舊的話邏輯上如果折舊攤體是一定要的那如果以這樣來看最主要這個折舊還是來自於這個運輸的這個本業 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9581.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9590.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
其他的臺鐵包括土地資產的開發包括像便當這種商品的其他部門的營業狀況是怎麼樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9592.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9618.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
其他部門的營業狀況就比較沒有比較沒有那個折舊的影響不是他是虧損還是他是虧損還是獲利獲利土地開發也獲利土地開發也獲利所有商品也獲利商品也獲利那只有本業虧損其他的都賺錢大體上是這樣那還有什麼部門你覺得有機會可以賺錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9620.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9647.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
我們主要有機會可以賺錢的其實都有啦但是主要可以不受折舊影響來賺錢的話如果可以切開看的話是資產開發應該沒有人不算折舊啦那這個公司大概太好經營了折舊一定要算嘛那本席只是覺得說是不是因為我臺鐵公司這個其實我主要問部長是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9648.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9651.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
明年會虧74億,明年預估虧87億每一個部門的KPI,每一個部門的營業目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9665.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9691.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
你有請同仁們提出嗎?有那這些虧87億都是你覺得合理每一個部門提出之後你覺得合理所以你估算出這個數字嘛對不對?那本席是不是要求你把每一個部門怎麼算?可不可以給本席?可以因為對臺鐵公司來講立法院就像公司的監察人 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9692.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9708.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
我們很想知道每一個部門他怎麼去看待明年的營業就你現在是公司啦公司邏輯上不要再吃大鍋飯嘛所以每一個部門都應該有目標嘛那有一個目標我們以目標的方式來監督 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9709.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9731.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
我覺得這個才對臺鐵公司合理不然立法院來大家只挑一個地點挑一個點就開始罵開始批評那明年又換新的我認為這沒有辦法系統性的監督臺鐵所以我覺得應該你有一個KPI讓我來看我明年我就按照你的KPI我來追蹤來要求這些目標可不可以達成我認為這樣對臺鐵的監理才是第二個有一些東西雖然賺錢董事長你會不會覺得他賺太少 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9739.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9750.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
譬如說我舉個例子我剛剛林俊鑫好像也有提到便當我們去年賺去年營業額是7億多對不對去年賺了多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9752.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9779.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
一億多七億賺一億啦好那十幾八十幾八對對對你比較起其他的餐飲就跟我們類型類似的來講你的營業利率其實有比較有比贏過人家嗎沒有沒有還是沒有嗎所以這個就是我覺得說如果我們覺得跟我們的同業比我們的營業利率相對低那我們就應該有精進的空間表示說 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9780.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9802.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
我們的營業額7億不錯但是我們一定是管銷費用或者什麼費用比人家高所以我們才會我們的營業利益才會比別人低嘛就這個邏輯你懂嗎所以應該我們用這樣的方式讓台鐵公司一個部門一個部門來檢討像土地的開發我覺得台鐵土地很多嘛我們應該想辦法來檢討嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9804.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9822.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
那我們不只土地他不是在做不是純粹我們在講土地的這個炒作啦開發不是這個而是土地怎麼樣運營跟管理那包括你的廠站也是一樣我剛剛也聽到那個數月委員在提他的惡靈車站很重要對不對他也是古蹟啊對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9823.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
9852.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
本席的日南火車站我也過去一直跟你們爭取從觀光局也要錢來修護這個古蹟日南車站的周邊然後我講了很多年臺鐵公司終於同意我爭取了大概接近我看五、六千萬有啦要把古蹟的本體開始要進行維護對不對那董事長這些古蹟本體這麼多的車站不久之後只要它沒被拆掉的它通通是古蹟 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
9853.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
9881.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
那臺鐵公司花錢去修理比如說我一個日南車站周邊不要算因為周邊是從我從觀光局要來的嘛觀光署要來的但是本體你就要花五六千萬去整修了那整修完之後啊你等於說對你來講你是投入資產的的運委或者投入資產的這個這個這個活化嘛那怎麼獲利就投入了之後這些車站投入獲利除了對古蹟的保存 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
9882.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
9905.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
你是公司欸你不是交通部欸交通部連交通部連國貨會都要跟你算那個那個回收啊回報率啊那你的你作為公司你對於這些投入你更應該這樣計算嘛所以臺鐵公司應該同時在修復古蹟的同時你應該去試想我怎麼運為我的古蹟可以讓我臺鐵公司有現金流進啦要有再利用的計畫對 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
9906.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
9922.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
所以我一直很擔心我到現在為止我都沒有看嘛每一個人都在問他的古蹟什麼時候修復我也是一樣啊對不對日南車站留標4次了嘛今天要開第5次標嘛對已經開了留標了嗎沒有有一家有標了那我們下個月就會完成評選好OK |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
9924.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
9938.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
不要再流標了啦同仁都很辛苦每次同仁回復辦公室都說同仁很努力了我從來沒有否定你們的努力啦但是喔努力沒有效果就說有心無力啦這是悲劇嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
9939.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
9966.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
就有心有力要把問題解決啦所以不是講通人很努力我也知道通人很努力但沒方法事情沒辦法完成只有心有心我想要把它做得好但沒有能力把它完成嘛所以有心無力有力無心都不行都解決不了問題啦所以回過頭來我希望看到的是臺鐵怎麼去活化就是你的股機去整修花那麼多錢每一個站你都要去修每一個站都要去維護 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
9968.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
9990.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
他對臺鐵公司未來的營收的幫忙是什麼我隨便舉個例子比如說你們現在開始改那個叫海豐號啊把舉光號改成去把它裝扮了海豐號叫什麼還有個叫什麼藍啊山藍號對不對對啊那這些要跑哪裡我是不知道啦但是我馬上想到的是我每次要去看這些古蹟 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
9991.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10016.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
其實沒有一台很棒的車子比如說在假日開禮拜六禮拜天你們也去打造一台這個臺鐵的什麼號專門營跑古蹟的就你在禮拜六禮拜天就載我跑海線的古蹟嘛因為你禮拜六禮拜天你的主力的運輸一定是相對遊客少嘛因為上班上學的沒有嘛所以這時候你就有你有古蹟你就可以去做嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10017.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10044.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
那你的古蹟的這個車子你想一個很響亮的名字取一個號把舉光號去改裝嘛你用舉光號去開大家覺得旅遊的樂趣沒有啦你把它重新改裝過後大家都覺得很好啦再來你的古蹟立法院不會審你的票價啊你的古蹟號要收多少錢我立法院不會說不行我在乎的是每天民眾要上下班上下雪那個票價你要漲價我就先問你績效改了沒 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10045.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10066.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
可是你否遊客否旅遊的你定很高那個就是市場機制嘛那個就是市場機制所以這個就是我一直在提的方法我沒有看到你的這些站我很贊成你去維護這些站我很支持我不是反對喔可是這個站跟這個公司的關係是什麼這個你要去想嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10067.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10068.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10082.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10107.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
真的能從包括你自己從民間挖到挖角把臺鐵公司起始回生你要有突破點就你上任董事長之後你的突破點是什麼讓大家耳目一新覺得這個杜董事長從過去公務人員現在變公司的董事長哇那臺鐵真的是不一樣了你這時候要談你不管要調幾趴大家會問說我這人才這樣會不會調太久 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10111.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10124.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
同仁讓大家有目標去拼拼完了我們有成績我們就加薪讓大家有動力立法院也挺得大家都很開心大家覺得不一樣了臺鐵公司是一個全新的公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10125.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10154.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
所以老生產產都是在談這些東西啦但是董事長就是你一定要很清楚那個方向每一個部門的方向是什麼他有可能可以再發揮創意是什麼過去臺鐵公司的任務不在此沒有公司之前不在此他就是讓火車可以跑不要上班不要遲到上學不要遲到正常運轉臺鐵公司就做好啦他還有什麼事情便當賣不賣不重要啦對不對沒有規定臺鐵一定要賣便當啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10155.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10182.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
那便當可以光便當你現在不是思考便當你要思考我怎麼樣可以讓我的飲食部門營收飆一倍從7億變14億對不對剛剛有人有緣有題啊各種各式各樣的啊你臺鐵現在便當叫全國統一版你也可以第二個版本叫地方版每一個地方又有屬於地方的特色這個就是你的創意讓你的營收可以翻倍的基礎嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10184.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10211.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
所以我建議這個是你參考一下啦因為畢竟你是董事長不是我是董事長所以這些問題一個公司就是公司啦我把你改字叫公司我很支持讓臺鐵變成公司公司就是公司而公司的方向是什麼公司角色是什麼跟過去公務同仁不大一樣所以我的意思是要這樣來思考臺鐵才會有未來好不好好 謝謝謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10215.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10215.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
議員會議結束 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10247.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10251.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營鐵道局局長陳世凱、國營鐵道局局長陳世凱、國營鐵道局局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10255.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10269.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營鐵道局局長陳世凱、國營鐵道局局長陳世凱、國營鐵道局局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10276.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10291.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
二、邀請交通部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10305.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10320.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
二、邀請交通部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10323.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10328.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
有限公司董事長有限公司董事長有限公司董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10347.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10354.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
二、邀請交通部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵道局局長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵道局局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10364.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10373.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
二、邀請交通部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營鐵道局局長陳世凱、國營鐵道局局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10381.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10389.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
二、邀請交通部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長進行專題報告。三、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10404.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10430.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
二、邀請交通部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10432.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10439.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
二、邀請交通部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營鐵道局局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10443.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10454.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10468.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10475.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長。三、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10502.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10504.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長進行專題報告。三、邀請交通部鐵道局局長進行專題報告。四、邀請交通部鐵道局局長進行專題報告。五、邀請交通部鐵道局局長進行專題報告。六、邀請交通部鐵道局局長進行專題報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10516.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10532.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
二、邀請交通部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10537.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10550.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
二、邀請交通部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10559.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10587.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10603.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10614.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
二、邀請交通部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10619.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10637.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
二、邀請交通部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營鐵道局局長陳世凱、國營鐵道局局長陳世凱、國營鐵道局局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10649.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10671.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
二、邀請交通部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10675.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10691.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
二、邀請交通部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營鐵道局局長陳世凱、國營鐵道局局長陳世凱、國營鐵道局局長陳世凱、國營鐵道局局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10693.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10705.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10709.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10731.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就、「我國軌道建設執行概況、強化文資保存及提升鐵道美學與功能。」進二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就、「我國軌道建設執行概況、強化文資保存及提升鐵道美學與功能。」進三、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就、「我國軌道建設執行概況、強化文資保存及提升鐵道美學與功能。」進四、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就、「我國軌道建設執行概況、強化文資保存及提升鐵道美學與功能。」進五、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就、「我國軌道建設執行概況、強化文 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10737.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
10753.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長有限公司董事長有限公司董事長有限公司董事長有限公司董事長有限公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
10763.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
10765.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營鐵道局局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
10785.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
10804.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
二、邀請交通部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵道局局長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵道局局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
10819.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
10834.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
先爭取一下我們那個交通部待會中午要不要休息啊?那那個數位部勒?你建議怎麼樣?有沒有低血糖?沒有齁?那個國防部勒? |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
10835.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
10837.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
接下來有請廖先祥委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
10863.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
10864.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
交通部陳部長、杜董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
10875.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
10898.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
部長好、董事長好那其實以我們交通部管的幾個國內的運輸業那高鐵、臺鐵還有客運這應該三大宗那這幾年其實它的運量高鐵其實是穩定的在爬升嘛對不對那我們臺鐵雖然我們的報告比去年還好但是其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
10899.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
10902.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
二、邀請交通部鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
10921.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
10923.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
部長這三個這麼大的一個國內客運的一個運輸體我醞釀這樣子的變化那對你有怎樣的啟示? |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
10930.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
10959.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
其實我覺得民眾在使用這個運輸的運具的過程當中大家的習慣是在改變似乎大家對於軌道的這個運輸是比較有信心或者是比較喜歡搭乘尤其這幾年我們的高鐵的這個服務的運量一直在提升當中那我自己搭高鐵長期在搭我看到的是幾乎班班客滿那非常多的人那確實我們也感受到說因為疫情的過程當中有一些民眾他的交通運具變成自己買車的也不少 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
10959.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
10971.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
那變成他的公路運輸的過程當中他就有可能會放棄公共的客運那變成自己的公路運輸我想提一下跟部長討論就是說其實高鐵是所有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
10972.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11000.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
交通這三樣裡面費用最高的那客運其實也是動漲了非常久的時間沒什麼調漲就其實相對來他是非常低的結果他的運量反而是萎縮的那單價高的高鐵他反而運量是增加的那就代表說價格只是影響到國人使用鐵道軌道運輸大眾運輸的一個其中的一項的考慮的因子而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11001.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11004.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
所以搭乘的速度、品質才是 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11005.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11032.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
國人要不要選擇搭乘大眾運輸的一個非常大的主要原因就像如果說國道科運你一直動漲假設當然你最近有說可能會調整你一直動漲你不讓他提升你讓他嫖嫁回到那邊他的服務品質沒辦法提升的時候跟我們可能要推廣大眾運輸的一個方向反而是背道而馳的我們雖然說我們可能是想要保障一些弱勢等等的但是其實有時候弱勢這個東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11034.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11061.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
並不單單是我們交通部的責任他應該是被納到社會福利的一環應該是衛福部或是地方政府的社會局、社會處他才是主要去做一些補助的一個單位我們應該除了一些比較弱勢的民眾要考慮之外我們應該要去考慮所有有可能是我們大眾運輸工具使用者的客群來怎麼樣滿足他提升他們搭乘的誘因所以說 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11061.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11074.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
我要討論的其實是臺鐵的一個票價說真的我個人其實在這邊也一再的重申我的立場我真的不反對我們臺鐵去提升票價我在乎的是臺鐵能夠在調升票價的同時能夠提升給我們旅客 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11079.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11100.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
提升不管是我們準點率、班次的服務效能或是搭乘的舒適度我覺得這才是絕大多數搭乘大眾運輸的民眾最關心的一個課題今天不曉得針對班次的載客量因為我上次有在這邊說過我有一次要來開會的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11102.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11102.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
臺鐵有沒有再提升運能的計畫? |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11117.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11137.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
剛剛委員報告有齁因為我們現在還在持續投入新車我們的新車都是大編組的所以運能是還可以再提升所以目前有一些可能還是四列的編組然後未來可能會投入八輛的編組那最近一起可能會再有這樣子的編組改這個時機點會大概在哪邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11141.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11157.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
改正的時機點應該是在明年年中的時候明年年中因為我們現在E500進來時是初期而已是我們大概正常上限運轉大概到明年年中跟下半年就會比較正常可以正常的輪替 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11158.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11184.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
好那如果說以明年底跟今年底來做比較的話那我們這個就講都會區啊都會區可能北北基桃這樣子的一個乘風見風時刻的我們的載客的量那可以提升多少大概10%左右可以再提升10%的運了好那就拜託我們臺鐵準準時啦因為我們常常在交車的時候常常不一定是你們的問題啦常常都晚常常都晚 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11184.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11199.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
那另外就是另外跟兩位討論一下就是說我們鼓勵國人國旅但是討論國旅的時候我們也鼓勵我們的國人要多多使用我們的大眾運輸包括我們的鐵道嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11201.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11228.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
我們的鐵道在過去可能大家只是把它當作一個運輸工具的一個部分而已那其實在很多知名的景點、國外一些好的一個地方其實在旅途的過程中其實它已經就是已經在進入了它的一個旅程當中了比如說我們要去迪士尼玩迪士尼專門列車你一進去就有這個沉浸感了嘛對不對或者是說我們去日本的京都他們的嵐山 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11229.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11230.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11247.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11262.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
觀光列車的一個計畫那原定好像要在明年上路嗎?不曉得相關的啟程是怎麼樣?因為我剛剛委員提到的山南跟海豐號好像都延了兩三年才上路啦那關於我們支線的觀光列車的一個進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11262.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11290.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
是跟委員報告這個不太一樣山南海豐是我們的觀光型的列車是那那個剛剛委員提到的支線它也是一種觀光型的列車但是它還兼附我們一般支線的輸運是所以不太一樣是那上線的騎乘我們現在的這個進程因為那是臺鐵臺車臺車在製造我們正在跟它緊密配合我們現在預估是要到115年 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11292.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11316.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
因為最近的新聞看好像我瀏覽一下新聞啦最近的新聞原本是說明年中啦第一輛可能可以交那現在又延到2025要延到20262026的應該是第一季或第二季第一季第二季那我們首輛投入的一個列車你會選擇在哪一條支線會先來現在還沒有定還沒有定喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11316.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11344.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
因為其實我們所有的支線應該是以平溪線的一個運量來最高應該是最高的啦那在疫情前搭乘人士應該都是破百萬的都是其他支線好幾倍那我在這邊也拜託是不是我們當然時間就拜託台車台車那邊儘快那我也希望說第一輛列車可以讓我們來投入到我們的平溪線營運一部分是它的一個效益會最大 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11345.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11350.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
二、邀請交通部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營鐵路股份有限公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11370.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11388.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
於年提升的部分。那另外一個就是這個觀光支線列車的一個相關的一個進程跟進度以及比較細部的規劃好不好謝謝部長謝謝董事長謝謝委員好謝謝亮委員好接下來有請邱若驊委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11398.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11404.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
好謝謝主席主席請杜董事長好臺鐵杜董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11410.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11424.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
董事長早我們先來看根據臺鐵公司的資料提供臺鐵公司所營運的軌道路網共計1072.3公里為全國第一那載客量也從110年的1億5493萬人次成長到110年的1億7025萬人次 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11430.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11453.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
那112年在客量高達兩億一千九百三十一萬人次那一到七月也累積了一億三千六百二十九點五萬人次那代表臺鐵是我國國人重要的公共運輸工具臺鐵行程安全至關重要在此本席要就叫董事長我們先來看臺鐵列車故事故障不斷那臺鐵的積極周圍是是請播放 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11470.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11494.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
我們可以看到旅客從一輛列車從區間車下來之後到另外一輛這是發生在今年9月5號臺鐵3078車次的影片原3078車次發生故障民眾必須從另外一班列車轉到另外轉到對向越台的另外一班那還有民眾因為趕轉列車而跌倒那我們再來看另外一部影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11507.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11522.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
今年9月11日臺鐵161號車次發生的問題由於自強號都是長途的旅客所以影片中我們可以看到旅客帶著大包小包民眾在轉車的時候造成列車污點進而影響班次 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11524.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11538.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
臺鐵提供的資料臺鐵近3年的列車故障班次都在200件以上造成霧點的時間都超過1萬分鐘以上影響的旅客日平均是高達379人次列車主要故障原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11539.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11563.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
可以看到是因為列車煞車系統作動異常還有電車線、供電設備保護切斷等等那其中區間車它的故障次數最多那再來是自強號、則以PP自強號的故障次數最高那最新型的EMU3000故障車數也有逐年增加的趨勢那今年1到8月光是區間車故障次數就達74次了過往3年都超過100次區間車是我國 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11566.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11586.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
的上班族主要通行工具之一,請問董事長如何降低區間車的故障次數?有關於區間車的部分,我們現在900型的新車都投進來都還很正常那我們有發生故障的這種車種,大部分都是比較舊式的500型跟600型 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11588.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11608.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
我這邊就要請教問題是要如何降低是是是就是500型我們已經有做過動力改造所以500型的部分動力改造過後剩下我們下一階段的工作就是包括它的車門還有一些其他的次系統的一個再改進 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11609.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11625.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
那這個部分我們現在正在進行那另外還有就是那個600型600型跟500型是屬於同一類車型的那本席這邊要提到自強號的故障次數有52次、舉光號35次這是從今年1月到8月的統計嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11626.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11645.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
那列車故障的原因多為機械故障這是臺鐵公司所提供的那造成平凡故障的原因是什麼是因為人員操作不當還是維修的流程出了問題這跟委員報告這兩個包括我們的推拉式PP還有我們的舉光號這個它大部分的故障都是因為它的車頭機車頭那機車頭這兩類車真的是比較老舊一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
11652.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
11675.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
那EMU37是最新的車型近年那最近也有逐漸升高的趨勢那臺鐵有針對這個問題做出改善嗎?有做通盤的檢討嗎?有,三間型它故障次數並不是很多那主要是因為新車型我們對它它車型裡面的Fail to Safe的這個機制我們要求也比較嚴格 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
11676.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
11681.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
那這個日立廠商有做這個深入的研究就他已經有發現過的這個問題都有在做改進 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
11686.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
11702.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
希望董事長這邊可以改善希望臺鐵繼續努力這邊也要請部長這邊來督促臺鐵公司因為這攸關我們國人上班族每天通勤的因為部長也有提到希望把影響降到最低希望這邊部長來督促臺鐵董事長我們這邊再來看到債務人員遭受攻擊的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
11708.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
11729.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
今年4月3號在臺鐵在臺鐵高雄站就有發生那8月7號在臺鐵大林站也有發生9月20號在臺鐵羅東站也有發生那當然還有其他很多的例子啊本期這邊就不一一舉例了那為什麼臺鐵站務人員遭受攻擊或是遭受民眾辱罵的事件不斷發生呢臺鐵這邊有沒有來做改進 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
11730.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
11753.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
是是是,這個我們有去看紀錄,類似的情形我們在112年以前每一年發生的件數大概是兩件左右那今年的確比較多一點,那我們去分析大部分都是乘務人員跟我們這個車站的戰務人員我們這邊可以提供戰務人員還有,戰務人員有什麼樣的協助? |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
11754.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
11776.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
有有,政務人員如果碰到這種情形第一時間當然我們會去車站或者是警方會去支援那第二個就是在事後如果我們的這個人員他有需要他認為他要提出這個告訴或者是對他自己的一個法律的一個保障我們這個會積極去協助他 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
11778.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
11797.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
董事長本身認為這些都沒有辦法有效保護第一線的戰務人員那臺鐵公司有沒有考慮過就是研議讓我們的列車人員、戰務人員都配掛迷路棋?這個我們有在研議的我們有在研議因為我們現階段是在看就是因為我們是公司嘛我們在法規面是不是適當 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
11798.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
11823.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
然後這個另外就是我們也要徵詢一下我們同仁的他們的意見是不是適合用公發的方式那初期我們會在車上已經演繹多久了請教董事長有一個多月了一個多月那再請董事長提供書面資料給本席的辦公室好的好的那我們接下來看到臺鐵的投票問題董事長您知道他是誰嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
11827.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
11831.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
11853.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
11881.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
在臺鐵投票的紀錄那投票對臺鐵公司一定是重大的損失是董事長對於投票的問題您要怎麼來解決是其實跟委員報告我們現在有發生投票或者是他有越級乘車這種情形跟以往比較不一樣因為現在我們在密集的地區我們立體化的車站變得比較多所以他要經過這個我們鐵路的古道來投票現在是不太會發生的 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
11882.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
11905.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
所以現在我們 董事長 逃票的這個行為不但造成臺鐵損失也影響社會風氣啊 是那臺鐵有沒有演繹有啊 我們對於逃票的這個行為我們還是會加強來做預防包括車站跟車廂 那有沒有要來修改相關的法規法規我們是只能遵循鐵路法是 只能遵循鐵路法 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
11906.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
11919.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
董事長本席的建議是應該跟鐵道局還有法務部警政署做跨部會的演繹畢竟這個對於社會風氣都有很嚴重的影響好 這個我們來考慮OK 好 以上 謝謝好 謝謝委員好 謝謝邱委員接下來有請陳雪生委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
11946.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
11973.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
好 謝謝趙偉是不是請交通部陳部長陳部長還有民航局局長民航局何局長還有那個中游羅副總好 羅副總部長早安委員早這個年輕有為希望您魄力的展現是多給我們交通多做點事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
11974.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
11988.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
那我今天在執行重點大概是馬祖到高雄航線大概是配合馬祖的南竿機場94年1月14日啟用那麼那時候馬祖高雄航線已經起飛了 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
11991.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12011.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
後來到11月只飛了11個月就停飛了,為什麼?因為人員不足、流量等等。載客率不如預期。對,到現在103年,20年停飛了。所以相較台北飛高雄屏東航線, |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12013.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12038.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
飛花蓮航線都是個位數,他們還是用固定航班在飛當然現在高雄可能停止了那麼我們在11月14號在高雄現場議長我還有我們高雄市陳其邁市長還有四位交通委員會的委員都歷齡了參加這個記者會那麼這個記者會也非常成功 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12041.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12067.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
昨天10月22號我們又開了跟許智傑委員我們共同主持了一個協調會為什麼?因為11月6號交通委員會到馬祖考察就在當天我選定那個時間就是高雄跟馬祖航線要復航那麼這是用包機的方式只有10趟只有10趟那這10趟包機 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12070.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12089.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
用官方的名義,官方署給了一百萬,那連江縣政府動資第二預備金花了五百萬也就是說這六百萬飛了十趟以後,然後怎麼辦?所以現在我們交通委員會很多委員很關心這個問題,為什麼?你一旦復航,然後飛了十趟以後又把它停止 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12091.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12112.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
這個我們鄉親會罵死了我們鄉親會罵死了我想這一條路不只是交通的一個連結也是行的便利你中央政府本來就有責任你在各縣市做高鐵成本多高啊所以這麼花一點點小錢而且我們的石斑已經全部滿載了所謂滿載是50個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12116.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12140.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
一般飛機因為它省油的問題,這裡面扯到中油了所以我講不只是中央政府的責任,更多是一條情感的橋樑我們對許多在南部在外地的鄉親來說,每一次回家的路都是充滿了思念跟期待的一個旅程這條航線就讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12142.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12171.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
這一份思念不再被這個距離所阻礙特別對於那些在南部在馬祖打拼的這些朋友也有軍人也有一些我們工程上協助我們的人因為回家的路不要再漫長了家庭的團聚也不再遙遠所以讓回家的路能夠變得更近、更便捷、更順暢那昨天協商會裡面有個問題這十班飛完以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12172.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12198.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
民航局是不是在這十班的時間、一個月的時間做前置作業?後面是不是繼續要飛?昨天開完會以後,我跟我們縣長討論我們縣政府的錢是東支第二預備金各位曉得,馬祖的財政狀況急劇是第五,非常艱困所以在這樣的情形之下,他可能沒有錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12199.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12217.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
所以我拜託昨天民航局跟中央也不敢給我一個確切的承諾所以今天部長來我拜託部長是不是督促民航局我希望能夠負起中央對各縣市政府尤其偏遠離島 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12219.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12246.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
一個交通的責任、一個行人的權利、便利,能夠負起一個完整的責任來。目前的問題大概是滿載可以坐70個人,現在扯到加油了。馬祖沒有加油站,有加油站,但是沒有加飛機的油。你要在那邊成立加油站,要有油罐車,還有一個油料的特別責任保險。 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12248.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12265.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
特別責任保險那我中游等一下我再來問他我是請教部長就是說這10班飛完以後能不能把它變為轉換為固定航班報告委員您當時在爭取這個航班的抱機非常用心也非常努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12265.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12286.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
那所以那個觀光署也特別以觀光的角度促進觀光的角度我們也有100萬來補助那民航局也相當努力趕快把這個航班能夠促成所以有10個10次的來回10次的來回那現在的問題是在於說臺北跟台中飛往南港 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12287.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12311.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
他沒有加油的問題因為距離相對近300多公里對300多公里但是高雄相對遠一點航程時間接近多了一倍的航程時間國內航程最長的一條線所以就會有加油的問題那目前的困難點是遇到加油的部分需要中油來協助如果我們的飛機飛到那邊有的加油的話我覺得這個航線的價值性可能會再更高一些是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12311.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12340.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
那我知道委員在爭取之前的這10趟航班已經非常不容易但是確實如果你只飛10次的包機但是我現在看這個數據看起來包機的承載率還可以7成以上但是大部分是觀光所以我們大概也會朝觀光的推廣的角度繼續希望討論能不能再延長部長我打斷一下你的話目前我們馬祖防衛司令部住在高雄的人阿兵哥大概有800人左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12341.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12368.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
他們每個禮拜放假有130個人所以現在有很多的士官所以這個部分就不算在居民有可能算在觀光裡面那個他們給我的數據可能觀光裡面包含的這些阿兵哥因為沒有設籍在那邊就不算居民那所以我覺得確實委員您在爭取的這個我們來努力啦中油如果可以把油的部分來做改變或者是讓我們更方便的話我們請民航局這邊我們來做研議就是朝延長的方向來做研議時間很有限 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12370.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12390.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
這十班的飛機意味著只有一個月多一點所以我拜託是不是請民航局負起主導的責任要協調中油怎麼樣把油管車送到那邊去然後加油的技術人員起碼要做一個培訓把這個任務完成五階段已經過關了 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12393.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12417.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
那對民航局而言沒有什麼問題剛才部長一直把這個風向導向觀光民航導向觀光觀光署能夠補助這個錢嗎?沒辦法這個錢一定要從民航作業基金裡面虧損的部分還有我昨天也告訴華信公司每一班飛機每個航線都要虧損你們都要爭取補助嗎?你們可以自給自足啊因為70個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12420.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12426.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
跟50個人意味著什麼?現在票價是3960塊包機的票價如果能夠承載70個人的話這個票價有機會降到3200塊而且華信可以打平 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12438.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12456.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
所以把它成為固定航班民航局不一定要從民航作業機裡面支出非常大的一個數額所以我還是拜託何局長你回去趕快研究一下因為11月6號啟動以後只有一個月的時間這一個月的時間你要做一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12458.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12485.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
前置作業讓把它轉換成固定航班而且督促華信、華信航空華信航空目前飛馬組是賺錢的要不要請何局長回應一下要非常謝謝委員在這一條航線的推動上我想剛剛委員講的要我們協調我們一定盡全力來協調包含中油的加油問題或者是華信這邊公司的態度因為要申請定期航班要華信那這個部分我們盡力來協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12486.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12514.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
那主要還是加油因為剛剛我也有提到70個位置只賣50個位置的話其他損益良品其實在整個運作上不是那麼有效率所以如果加油問題可以解決我覺得這條航線的局長現在不是互退責任的時候不能互退中油他現在講說油罐車跟那個保險是馬油你馬祖那邊是馬油當時我時任縣長的時候啊中油說我們在公司化了馬祖油品公司要獨立出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12515.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12536.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
我是忍痛把他認養,認養這個兒子你現在中油怎麼可以講說,那不是我家的兒子你在全台灣的各港口機場是你們中油的責任,然後你們就給油罐車 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12538.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12561.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
就給這個加油的保險那現在馬油不是,那我們把馬祖油品公司,我也不管啦我看你中央政府要不要派馬祖不要加油嗎?你中油沒有責任嗎?難道會請台塑過去,台塑會聽這個指令嗎?不可能你中油勢必要在馬祖成立中油公司你們如果要這樣做的話,那我就我就把油停掉把油停掉我來請問行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12562.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12585.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
你中油公司在幹什麼?你中油公司要派人來然後我要申請個油罐車你說只借到12月底三個月沒關係你買新的給我啊你買個新的油罐車給我啊你不能說全台灣的這些加油公司都是你兒子馬阿祖的油品公司可能是外面領養的還是小三生的你不能這樣處理啊是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12586.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12602.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
所以羅副總你回答我一下油的問題是委員好有關於航油車這個部分實際上在這邊跟委員報告整個這個作業我們已經都ready好油櫃也準備好原本我們是9月份就要運到我們的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12603.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
12628.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
沒有原本的問題啊,我這個事情已經寫到半年還不止了那現在就是說,我們原本只是跟委員在討論這個包機部分嘛那回頭如果固定航班,因為現在整個我們會在整體再來評估看看如果我們一定會往促成這方面來進行我請問如果是固定航班的話,你油罐車要不要給我們?還有你的油的保險要不要處理? |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
12628.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
12654.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
如果能夠不影響我現在在高雄的機場這個部分一定全力支持油罐車的影響高雄機場什麼關係不是小港機場沒有加油的問題啊不是馬路有加油的問題啊所以我這個航遊車是從高雄機場的這個這邊借過去的啦那如果不要影響到他那邊一定來往這方面你們借油罐車給我啊我已經勉強接受了按照規矩你們買個新的油罐車給我 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
12656.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
12671.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
我已經很忍耐了,是不是?我已經很忍耐,不然你買個新的給我啊。你說馬祖油品公司不是你們的兒子的話,那我就請我們聯商線路把油品公司撤掉。請問,中油你們派個公司到馬祖來? |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
12672.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
12697.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
然後馬祖這些輪船、飛機、車輛都不要加油嗎這是中華民國政府是中央政府要負責的剛才我也跟部長開宗明義的講行的便利、交通的便捷、整個的連結你台灣這邊有高鐵、有捷運、有什麼花了幾百億、幾千億、幾兆你馬祖這個小小一個事情是不是你連高雄 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
12699.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
12715.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
各位數非花蓮各位數你的造飛都固定航線你馬祖為什麼給我停掉我等了20年了現在的觀光人口從以前的每年10萬人已經到40幾萬人了不一樣了所以中油到 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
12717.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
12731.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
民航局開會你們不要再推山阻石喔你們再推來推去我就找中油好不好你不能說油罐車我借給你借到12月底沒關係啊你借到12月底你買個新的給我你買一台新的油罐車給我你說這技術人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
12732.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
12750.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
我們都忍耐到說我們願意派個人去裡面培訓因為加飛機的汽油跟加汽車的汽油是不一樣的狀況是不是這裡面有保險,保險要幾千萬你叫連央縣政府把房子賣掉來繳這個錢嗎?怎麼可能?好不好,羅副總你回去研究,一個禮拜之內給我答覆,可以嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
12753.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
12776.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
那何局長這邊我就拜託部長,部長也交代啦好不好你不能十半飛機停掉啊,我想早上我不曉得許智傑委員還有李昆仁委員有沒有諮詢到這一點他們很關心啊,這個才是實質的關心既然在我們這個立法院的交通委員會有那麼多的藍綠的委員在關心這條航線我拜託部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
12777.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
12803.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
你年輕有為你有魄力,希望你這個第一槍把他打響,把這個事情不要停掉你停掉的話,我們馬祖的群眾、馬祖的民眾也好,還有軍人軍人為什麼許智傑委員還有李昆哲委員那麼關心?他們是高雄的子弟,800個人住在高雄屏東他回家的路有一些現在是市官役了,轉任市官役,他們戶口都遷到馬祖去 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
12804.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
12812.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
如果把油料問題解決那邊可以加油就可以滿載70個人票價不要到3900多塊可以降到3200 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
12814.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
12837.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
而且你在票價審議委員會的時候,3200應該滑進就可以吸收了所以也不需要你動用民航作業基金部長你覺得我這樣講法有道理嗎?我們朝這個方向來努力朝這個方向,我希望能夠說到做到好不好?部長我也拜託你,你非常年輕而且非常有魄力我希望你幫我完成這件事情,還有羅副總你回去 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
12838.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
12846.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
因為董事長今天列席在經濟委員會他沒辦法親自來所以羅副總我想你也是底下的技術官僚你幫我協助這問題有關這你舊的運過來借我們用沒關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
12851.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
12879.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
你不能說給我限到12底啊12月底的話那你買對不起你買一台新的給我不然的話我斷然措施請林鄉縣政府把郵品公司把它切斷切斷以後你們中油公司要派派中油公司到分公司到馬祖來要進駐馬祖然後所有的責任你們要去負責你願意這樣做嗎你划不來嘛對不對現在就這個一個加油的問題能夠幫我們解決就不是很好的事情嗎好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
12881.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
12885.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
所以剛才部長說朝觀光儲備部分去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
12886.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
12905.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
那不是正道那都是臨時性的請我們民航局我們現在的包機先這樣處理我想請民航局主動的很積極的去主導這件事情這才是正道好不好部長好謝謝部長謝謝羅副總謝謝何局長好不好我們謝謝組長謝謝趙偉謝謝好謝謝陳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
12914.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
12915.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
有請郭國文委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
12942.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
12946.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
謝謝主席有請陳世凱部長跟黃英貴市長好陳部長市長部長好委員好部長那個來自台南有些台南的交通問題來跟您談討一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
12959.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
12977.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
大概好幾次的民調數字顯示出來臺南的交通問題是所有的市民最頭痛同時也是最期待不論是住在臺南或是來到臺南的人都有感受到臺南的交通相對其他的城市發展或其他的面向而言相對落後了 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
12978.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
12994.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
那是有相對落後大概幾個面向可以來做思考我想第一個就是說我們從公路運輸的部分公路運輸的部分其實你我們如果從設備面或管理面兩個角度來看的話最後的結果就是那個造勢的情況造勢率其實一直居高不下 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
12995.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13018.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
那A1的部分的發生其實讓人家都非常的心痛特別是少子化的這種狀況那本席在這一個南科區的當中常常有A1的事件那都是國家的人才也是父母的心中寶貝但是問題是這個交通系統的部分政府也投入一些的部分但是有一些方向我想說就跟本部長跟市長來做探討 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13019.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13034.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
因為在整個交通系統來說他會因應整個南科的變化變化最主要南科的部分呢大部分人都住在高速公路以西也就是舊的舊城區那邊那你又要跑到高速公路以東的南科來上班 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13035.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13057.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
南科現在的就業人口數大概9萬,接下來就大概10萬所以所有新增人口當中造成整個運輸流量的一個擁擠但是偏偏這種擁擠的部分你沒有辦法解決當然你也想要一直投入在這部分也就是開闢了所謂的北外環道路北外環道路當然是正確的一個方向但是現階段因為交通的問題或房價的因素這些人已經有往北 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13062.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13084.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
行政區當中人口數成長最多就是西港區本席就是要跟你探討這個部分應該因應整個區域的發展跟需求來進行公路運輸的一個規劃我就請教部長跟市長的部分是不是應該朝向這個部分除了內政部的一些跨西大橋是屬於生活圈道路之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13085.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13092.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
我們交通部的公路運輸系統在整個往南科向北蔓延的情況底下到底有沒有這樣的思維?部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13094.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13115.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
報告委員您所提到的這些我們也認為是相當的重要所以現在其實我們也結合台南市政府大家一起在研商跟研討說要怎麼樣去解決這樣型的方面的問題那各方面不管是公路或者是鐵路各方面在努力那委員您今天關注的是公路的部分部長我先打算一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13115.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13137.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
因為呢地方政府通常是比較沒有錢啊那貧窮又限制了想像所以呢我們事實上現在有個35億元就是說有珍貴西港大橋底下的一個道路系統還有包括國發展立體化的一個工程這個都是好事情但是這不夠譬如講最近討論最多的是加科到南科的道路加科到南科的道路你們居然把重點放在嘉義到新穎 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13139.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13159.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
加科其實還沒有成型耶真正的成型是南科耶我剛剛說的由南往北就是南科的效應所以真正需要把高鐵橋下道路開闢的其實是南科往西營這一段這段的一個起初報告那個研究報告其實在2009年的時候就有報告出來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13160.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13184.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
2009年喔2009年到現在是連動都沒有動喔整個南科的發展這個一二十年來已經是產值最多了部長我慎重的提醒你這個部分應該去思考南科到加科的部分南半段的需求遠遠大過於北半段的需求南科的產值跟實質的效用遠遠大過於未來的這個加科的想像啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13185.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13212.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
這是ING正在發生的可是每次去呢都有不同的理由公路局都來說不同的理由每次會刊之後說要進度也沒有任何具體的進度我請部長把這些公路運輸應該發展的路徑師就在你旁邊做一個因應南科發展一個整體的規劃出來以你的高度來跟地方政府協助而不是由地方政府來跟你提出需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13213.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13232.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
您所提到這個高鐵橋下的這個對沒有錯就是呃台37線台39台3737吧那個南部這邊是39對對對沒關係啦重點那那這個部分當然我們現在會積極來推動啦您剛剛有提到一個問題的關鍵點是在於說我們一直在等待地方政府跟我們提 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13233.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13247.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
那現在或許我們換一個角度因為對於整個國家的發展來講臺南是相當的重要那所以我們可能由我們交通部主動來跟地方政府我們一起來協商然後把可行性評估把它做好對可行性研究把它做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13248.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13251.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
麻煩部長主動積極,因為部長其實也相當主動積極,就像鐵路運輸的部分,鐵路運輸的部分,兩個站體,一個山化站體,一個是農田站體的這個部分,牽扯到未來的整個捷運公共的一個相關的問題, |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13263.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13266.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長有限公司董事長有限公司董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13289.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13311.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
那最後我還是要耽誤主席一點時間因為整個最關鍵的問題是六都當中現在唯一沒有捷運的就是臺南就臺南那核定的第一期的南線初步的路網的部分是涵蓋於整個高鐵的周遭這個部分這不是錯誤的這是基本的這個路網是需要可是第一個部分就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13312.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13328.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
藍線的綠線的一個延伸的一個深綠線他結合了整個高鐵跟南科這兩個最重要的發展引擎這個部分我不曉得為什麼地方政府跟你溝通這麼久連這個可行性評估計畫都拖延了這麼久的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13330.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13359.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
花了已經兩三年了難道是放任他們自己去深綠線確實是現在最重要的我們有私下都討論過對那這個部分確實我們鐵道局是不是也來協助一下市政府對我們協助一下市政府讓他趕快送出來也就是臺南的捷運在六都整個西海岸地區當中有沒有可能後發先知後發先知方式不是一定要複製copy因為啊要融入一些聯合開發的一個可能性是 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13360.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13389.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
我們有土地來源的單位有國有財產署啊有台糖嘛還有軍方嘛這些可能性把綜合架構說下去他剛開始的評估怎麼可能說他綜合規範效益是低於低於1以下呢不太可能的事情嘛那個陸正思或者是那個部長因為主席已經站起來了我實在不方便佔用太多時間這個部分麻煩你們好好規劃一下我剩下沒有問完的我改天再來請教你好不好我們再跟委員報告好謝謝主席謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13394.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13398.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
好,謝謝國委員接下來有請王育民委員發言謝謝主席,我們是不是有請陳部長交通部陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13415.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13442.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
部長好部長你上任到現在有沒有去過嘉義縣到目前為止還沒到目前我還沒去過所以嘉義縣一直是很需要受到關心的城市因為連部長到目前為止都還沒有去過那今天呢我就要幫水上的鄉親等待10年的鐵路高架化來爭取希望陳部長可以加速水上鐵路高架化的可行性評估跟進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13443.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13461.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
我來跟部長報告一下為什麼這件事這麼的重要事實上嘉義縣在去年就是年底的時候蔡英文總統她有出席到這個民雄高價化的動土典禮那這個圖請這個部長看一下民雄是嘉義縣的第一大鄉鎮 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13462.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13491.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
那他也爭取了很久現在好不容易剛開始動工這個鐵路高價化那你看到他這條鐵路從北到南他一路會經過嘉義市嘉義市也已經高價化他的下一站就是水上水上是嘉義縣第二大人口那他現在整個嘉義縣的發展包括台積電要進駐到嘉義我們整個國家的無人機的發展基地也要進到嘉義縣所以嘉義縣他在蓬勃的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13492.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
13515.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
那他所有土地的利用跟運用就變得非常的重要那像這個蔡總統講的他說鐵路高價化他可以去縫合原本鐵路兩旁的這個土地所以這件事情今天你們的整個軌道建設報告可以看到很多縣市都在推這個高價化你從台中出來你也可以看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
13515.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
13541.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
台中高價化之後底下這個廊道整個綠化變成公共空間其實真的是一個很值得去推動的但是嘉義縣這邊的爭取顯得非常的困難那我要特別謝謝前部長就是李孟彥部長他其實在交通委員會的安排底下8月14號他有到嘉義當地考察那原本這個爭取水上鐵路高價化這件事情呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
13543.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
13563.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
因為一直被打回票所以後來嘉義他們提了一個大平台但是那個大平台計畫前部長李孟彥部長看了都覺得不可行所以他當場他其實就有允諾就是要爭取整個鐵路高架化重新再評估那這件事情我不曉得在業務交接過程當中部長這個業務有沒有交接過來 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
13566.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
13596.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
如果當時李部長有答應要這麼做我們大概就會朝這個方向那我這邊所瞭解的是目前地方政府也還正在針對到底是要高價或者是大平台的部分他們還在做研議那研議的過程當然我們也會協助他們好這個地方的議員跟鄉親的意見就是要高價化最原始就是高價化是因為被你們打回票了才發展出一個大平台但是因為前部長李孟彥部長到現場看了之後他也覺得這個大平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
13596.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
13625.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
很怪不太可行所以他當場就有裁示我相信你們應該有相關會議記錄但是你們在今天的這個報告的第6頁還在寫水上大平台顯然你們都沒有更新也沒有接軌所以這個部分是不是部長你可以允諾就是今天回去之後你是不是可以去跟嘉義縣政府積極的來研議就是讓水上高高價化鐵路高價化的這件事情呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
13625.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
13643.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
可以重新評估再開始因為每一個階段他的這個評估都是不一樣的所以像過去在台中爭取這個捷運的時候也是本來說不可以的後來其實因為整個發展太快速了所以有一些線其實也都新開出來這個你也非常清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
13644.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
13660.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
那嘉埃縣也是有這樣的情況他正在積極的發展他在起飛第二大的鄉鎮水上鄉他需要鐵路高架化請部長待會去研議好不好這個部分我們積極來跟地方政府來協商好看到底要怎麼樣定案我們來努力好謝謝部長謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝王委員接下來有請陳廷飛委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
13677.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
13680.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
謝謝主席,我們請部長交通部陳部長部長,我們現在在臺南鐵路地下化的進度如何? |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
13699.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
13720.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
我們的鐵路地下化目前應該是在我這邊的資料是興建當中啦當然興建當中啦那預計呢預計什麼時候目前已經到80%左右的這個進度那大概什麼時候可以委員是希望知道什麼時候可以完工對不對當然你現在我現在趕快要壓日期嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
13721.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
13743.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
押日期你們到底什麼時候讓我們可以看到我們的鐵路地下化等到那麼久了而且也都地方爭議心臟一路走過來到底什麼時候可以完成可以通車第一階段通車我們第一階段現在目標115年年底115年年底兩年後哇還這麼久 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
13744.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
13766.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
因為我們這一個在東門路橋的文資移購在8月底才剛剛全部處理完所以你們現在基本上都delay了嗎?有點delay嗎?我們期程是有修正所以這個delay其實看到的是所有地方對於這些工程完全的受到所謂的一個交通不方便 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
13767.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
13789.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
所以我覺得我們應該要快一點把它能夠加速雖然這個是非戰之隊因為文資文資的問題沒有辦法不停下來這確實在這一段鐵路地下化的過程當中我們必須要尊重一些這個文資的一些過程處理可是我覺得要沒錯但是我們要趕快當停下來還是要把時間補進來那台南舊車站的規劃呢因為是古蹟啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
13798.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
13823.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
是古蹟目前很多台南的鄉親確實在反反應那個古蹟之前圍了很久沒錯沒錯大家眼睛都在看啦對確實圍了非常久來是不是田 請台鐵他跟委員報告齁因為古蹟車站嘛齁那現在的進度是已經有配合設計展齁做一個微改造齁那包括外觀跟內部有一個初步的一個裝修齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
13824.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
13838.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
那未來包括明年我們會配合市府站前廣場的一個改善計畫我們會做這個站前廣場的一個配合改善再把 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
13839.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
13862.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
車站的門面做一個美化在明年什麼時候我知道現在地方政府都在收集地方的資料跟意見就是說在戰前改建廣場的改建這是我們小時候大家共同的記憶是這很重要那個我們會配合市府那邊的這個設計對那預計多久預計多久在這個戰前的我們會比較早進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
13866.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
13889.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
對,比較早進行是大家預計大概在明年的下半年要下半年對為什麼要下半年因為還要去設計一下我覺得速度要快啦因為其實那是我的選區啦我每天幾乎都要經過所以在這樣的狀況之下我們所看到的每次的危機不進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
13892.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
13921.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
這會讓人民信心指數下降所以我們希望快一點然後當你在施工的時候配套交尾一定要做好這個麻煩再來就是我們的這個第一期藍線延伸線的這個部分這個我要問部長我們2024年8月13號交通部已經審查通過我們的可行性研究審查通過部裡面而已喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
13922.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
13923.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
行政院打算什麼時候要通過? |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
13929.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
13952.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
有信心他什麼時候可以通過因為他會有一些意見意見之後要你們修正他目前的修正齁剛送過來在9月底的時候送過來交通部了那現在鐵道局正在演繹當中他演繹送來交通部我們會趕快趕快來加進所以你們認為預計什麼時候在行政院這個區塊你們會有信心把它通過因為你們有看過他的意見嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
13954.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
13972.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
他9月底給你們的意見你們很清楚啦這些意見你到底可不可以去做處理是可不可以修正是這很清楚啊你不要是來來去去然後送過去然後行政院又送回來那來來去去光這個公文的旅行就已經影響到我們的時間啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
13973.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
13989.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
現在是這樣就是他修正市政府已經送過來了是我們在我們在演商當中演繹當中我們當然會希望說不要再來來回回是一次就能夠解決啦一次叫來把所有的問題都討論好對沒錯然後送給行政院因為他已經把所有意見給你了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
13990.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14017.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
是我們希望送過去的這個版本新的修正版本送過去可以趕快讓它你們什麼時候要送送到把地方政府跟你們的修正意見送給行政院我們在一個月以內會從交通部送到行政院一個月以內現在是那交通部的部分我們會來那個行政院的部分我們也會來拜託他們速度加快11月中會送行政院11月底11月底11月底11月底11月底那就一個多月喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14017.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14044.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
呃...今天是23號嗎?對啊!就一個多月囉!下個月的23號左右好不好?好!下個月23號你一定要送出喔!是!因為為什麼這個藍線的延伸線會很重要因為它可以加乘藍線的效果對!它的經濟效益跟交通效益因為它連接的會是往所謂的高鐵台南站跟轉運站去做結合 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14044.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14063.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
這是非常重要的因為其實捷運站可以是不是成功是他有沒有符合整個交通網絡的一個對他沒有網絡入網完成他會變成有缺口有缺口達成性就不高 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14065.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14093.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
所以這個重要性是它的延伸線會加成藍線的效果所以為什麼我們一直在追就是這一點點所以拜託部長我們相約11月23號11月23一定要送出去然後呢是我們交通部跟我們地方政府把所有的問題都理清了然後送給行政院不要來來回回一次兩次那就 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14094.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14115.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
看得到我們交通部的能力囉這個再拜託我們希望我們這個藍線延伸線趕快經通過可行性行政院的可行性評估這樣子的話那才有下一步啊你可行性沒有通過下一步根本都不用講就遙遙無期了再拜託謝謝好謝謝委員好謝謝陳委員接下來有請陳清輝委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14130.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14133.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
主席好我想請部長好交通部陳部長好部長交通部跟台鐵為了今年開始要推動到116年的這個維修計畫特地在去年就超前部署這個計畫真的超長你也知道執行台鐵所需 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14157.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14176.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
鐵路基礎建設及車輛之建設重製重構維修經費辦法結果我跟行政院求證交通部一直到今年的6月20才送行政院審核這個是去年就應該要做的專案然後今年已經快要結束了可是怎麼會拖到6月20號才審核 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14178.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14206.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
是我們6月份送到行政院去審核那沒有錯就像委員上面所說的現在行政院應該還沒有核定吧這個部分還沒有核定還在院那邊對那是113年到116年對一個計畫那您延宕的這個問題是出在哪裡呢就是在審議的過程中呢有一些這個項目還有費用還有它的用途需要做一個進一步的說明跟澄清 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14207.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14224.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
好這邊我再舉另外幾個例子因為民眾也會非常的擔心像這個是鐵路行車安全改善6年計劃原本109年就要執行完展延到111年又展延到113年你們今年做得完嗎做得完 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14225.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14248.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
所以今年沒有要再展延了沒有那今年本席也會在年底前跟您要一份這個結案報告好嗎好可以沒問題那另外還有一個這個臺鐵整體購置及汰換車輛的計畫原本是今年也要把該買的買一買該換的都換掉然後又嚴重的延宕展延到116年才做得完 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14248.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14256.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
這個我們有報修正計畫因為跟委員報告的確因為疫情跟供應鏈的影響有一些車種他交車有點延誤 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14259.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14288.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
所以您覺得對116年換完是有信心的?可以現在交車都恢復正常因為國人的安全都掛在這上面嘛最後這個臺鐵電務智慧化提升計畫也是說113年要完成現在又多要求三年是嗎?跟委員報告本來是到115啦現在我們也是有報一個修正計畫要延到118年 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14290.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14311.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
所以116變到118部長部長您看他幾乎每一個計畫都延宕的非常的嚴重好像延案都變成台鐵的常態了那你在任內可以確保他剛講的這些日期的執行預算執行率都不會再低於預估的期程嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14312.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14333.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
報告委員我接任交通部長之後瞭解臺鐵的狀況確實我發現他的計畫非常的多計畫真的非常非常多那如果沒有看資料大概名字也念不出來計畫非常多那再來就是說確實很多計畫都有延宕的現象那我們現在一個案一個案正在檢討當中就是說當時為何延宕 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14334.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14356.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
那我們為什麼要了解為何延宕因為我們希望未來不要再延宕就是我們現在已經展延了展延之後不要再展延了這個部分我們來確保但是我們剛才聽到116又到118啦對這個修正計畫推過來就是118那這個案子其實我也了解啦那也有跟他們討論過說怎麼去預防說未來還要再延宕的問題這個部分我們正在處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14357.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14372.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
好 謝謝那最後當然我是從高雄來的嘛所以當然也有非常多鄉親我也知道您總諮詢這幾天有被問到這個問題請問今年年底是不是您就可以決定進高雄市區的這個方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14372.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14388.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
今年年底我們會在左營方案跟高雄方案選定一個方案來做好決定因為卓院長有信誓旦旦在總質詢的時候說如果你已經決定要採高雄案的話現在要趕快做才可以省一筆錢請問這個計算的依據是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14391.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
14412.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
因為我們現在看到很多的交通建設越晚啟動它的成本越高那也看到有一些包含桃園包含其他地方的這個修正計畫提報過來都看到物價指數在提高然後那個勞工的那個薪資也提高所以你們年底前就會給我們好消息就一定要決定我們會決定方案對年底前一定要決定方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
14413.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
14432.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
本席在這邊也想跟您說我也是支持高鐵進高雄站的但是到時候現在居民還有我們的選民們他們很關心的就是你這個交通維持計畫大家擔心說你一旦宣布可不可以就開始啟動未來他們因應這個交通黑暗期的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
14433.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
14450.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
當我們選定方案之後未來的因應就要馬上跟地方政府來討論這個部分我們會依委員的要求盡快來跟地方政府來討論未來的整個維護計畫所以大家也很期待參加您的這個說明會是好 謝謝好 謝謝陳委員接下來請徐巧卿委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
14470.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
14474.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
謝謝主席,我們請那個陳部長好,交通部陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
14482.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
14511.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
部長好我們想要很直接的來詢問就是關於其實這幾次交通委員會質詢大家都很關心的這個臺鐵耗製系統的更新工程那這個工程因為它的這個項目然後還有它的金額非常高高達81億供期從110年7月到115年的8月那等於是擁有5年的時間然後來做這樣子的整體的更新耗製那請問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
14511.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
14532.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
我們這個案子目前已經付出去的有多少的經費?跟委員報告我們在合約成立的時候付了22億的預付款那另外還有就是西門子他的那個記軸器到貨的時候到貨的時候有付了一部分對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
14534.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
14544.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
那但是呢我想要問一下就是說這個這個標誌的標號的工程啊目前進度就你們來說呢落後的比例現在高達了35%高達35%為什麼會有這樣的情形發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
14550.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
14568.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
部長請回答目前他們給我的進度是落後了差不多百分之您寫的是35他們給我是37應該其實差不多落後的原因我覺得有幾項第一個就是說當時在標案的過程當中西門子他當然就得標了但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
14569.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
14597.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
標完之後他們對於整個合約的這個想法跟概念的認知跟臺鐵確實是有落差這是一項第二項是西門子目前在履約的過程當中我認為他們的能力上面包含他的人力上面確實是有落差的那這個部分臺鐵也覺得蠻困擾所以也組成了專案小組一直在跟他們溝通也一直在跟他們協商那我們希望說後續的進度能夠追得上 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
14598.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
14625.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
這個上一次在這個洪孟楷委員在交通委員會的時候有質詢過但是我必須講哦在因為這個議題呢我雖然第一次在交通委員會問可是呢我跟你們所知蠻多次的第一次問你們的時候呢這個當然不是陳部長的任內啦那得到的回覆是說因為COVID-19所以計劃落後進度落後要扮演展演但問題是呢我們從這整個進度來看呢疫情指揮中心在2023年的112年5月1號就已經解閉 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
14627.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
14628.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長進行專題報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
14648.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
14673.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
那我們再來看一下落後進度的部分到底是如何的來 這個呢 交通號致連鎖系統更新工程的進度圖項目10裡面是宜蘭蘇澳新站預定開始的時間是2023年的4月預計完工的時間是2023年5月請問部長2023年5月離現在已經整整一年多了現在目前完工了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
14675.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
14686.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
報告委員還沒有還沒有那原因是什麼呢這個就是剛剛有提到就是西門子他沒有辦法來執行沒有辦法執行那所以說呢現在個施工廠兩手一攤還要另外發包你看喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
14693.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
14708.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
立約商於今年9月份的PMO會議明確指示沒有辦法配合新馬灣道改善工程所以現在要再另外發包處理那原計2023年5月22號要完工現在還要另外發包那請問狀況是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
14711.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
14729.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
這跟委員報告就是說另外發包是因為我們至少我們這邊臺鐵公司這邊比較了解現況所以我們這個部分我們會另外發一個包去處理但是但是這一個包的費用我們會跟西門子拿好 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
14729.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
14746.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
那因為時間的關係我再把最後的幾張powerpoint講完我相信這個你們都清楚但是我想要告訴的是社會大眾說這一個81億的工程裡面到底有多少是落後的情況來下一張湖口示範站一樣進度嚴重落後再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
14748.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
14766.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
這個也是一樣依照合約應該要暫停計價那工期我們也不知道延長到什麼時候所以這個案子從一開始開標就有日系跟歐系是否可以符合的爭議又有因為評分外流的投訴到工程會的事情到了今天進度仍然是嚴重的落後 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
14767.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
14782.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
又要轉延又要暫停競價又有新趕工的進度對於這個工程的得標過程感到非常多的疑慮現在說要延到118年會不會連我們賴總統任期第一個任期最晚這4年都沒有辦法有 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
14782.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
14805.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
最好的進度部長最後你回答一下這整個81億的大計畫處處都是落後請問應該要如何處置他們現在有提出修正的計畫工程還會再往後延延到什麼時候現在延到118年嘛那我們延到118年這個不能再落後我們現在要確保是再延這一次不能再落後所以至少118年之前要完成好謝謝謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
14809.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
14809.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
黃國昌委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
14831.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
14852.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
謝謝主席是不是麻煩有請交通部的部長以及臺鐵股份有限公司的杜董事長杜董事長兩位好第一個交通部在疫情的期間推廣一個虛擬實境觀光海陸慢行這個計畫花了9000萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
14860.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
14877.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
這個就花了九千萬花了九千萬目前交通部認為這個效果好不好當時是因為疫情的過程這個我了解對就是因為疫情所以採用虛擬觀光嗎是啊沒有錯對那虛擬觀光效果好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
14878.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
14903.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
現在大家應該疫情過了大家都去現場不太會用虛擬的啦我指的是在那段時間當中的效果好不好花九千萬值不值得這個就是我問題的核心啊我知道這不是你任內發生的所以我沒有要甩鍋給你的意思啦部長不用太過緊張但我們花納稅人的錢做事情我們總是要實事求是嘛做不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
14904.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
14930.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
承認做不好我們檢討改進以後不要再犯這個是我覺得應該要有的基本態度沒錯所以在這個情況下我真的要拜託交通部就像我上一次質詢觀光署辦的那個活動一樣這太誇張了丟了九千萬下去丟了九千萬下去結果還是限制型招標 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
14931.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
14959.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
當得標的人是跟民進黨關係特別好的杜益謹你聽過吧杜益謹我聽過對嘛那大家就會開始質疑嘛是能力好還是關係好嘛但我覺得空泛的去質疑能力好還是關係好關係好沒有道理所以我們要看成效嘛來我給部長報告一下好請委員指教來海陸慢行啊是 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
14961.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
14988.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
說做了12支片子這個Youtube訂閱117個人部長你有沒有看到下面關染次數有394次148次208次76次73次這個不是今天早上上片的兩年前上片的這個成效我如果用慘不忍睹來形容部長你同不同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
14988.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15016.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
是報告委員我不曉得他這個除了YT上面上架之外有沒有在其他的平台不曉得還有那如果有的話就要整個中整期來看我等一下會馬上一個一個檢驗我們既然花了錢花了9000萬有網站嘛有YT嘛有FB嘛各個社群平台都上我是一個實事求是的人我們就一樣一樣來看好那可在其他的地方成效卓著也不一定 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15018.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15043.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
但以YT來講我個人看的是上架兩年以後這個觀看次數幾十次到兩三百次我大概只有四個字形容慘不能賭錢不能這樣花這是我的立場然後呢他們說晚上他們說有一個網站有收羅各式各樣的人我先假設啦都沒有找人來灌這個有一萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15045.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15072.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
四千六百個用戶上線一萬四千六百個用戶平均每一個用戶體驗一次多少錢大概八千塊吧這個cost benefit我們花納稅的錢去推廣光光目的絕對正當絕對是好事啦但我只有質疑一件事啊錢是不是應該要這樣花第二個我要問的事情是委員會真的覺得很怪 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15073.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15102.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
就我們大家就實事求是把事情做好評估成效的時候也不要好像要遮醜我為什麼要遮醜媒體報導10月16號的報導去質疑這個花這九千萬到底是在幹嘛結果你知道嗎結果10月18號的時候臉書跟IG就關了這個臉書跟IG的所有權使用權應該是我們交通部的吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15104.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15121.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
這是我們花錢設的欸阿誰把他關阿部長可以回去瞭解一下好 這個我回去瞭解你回去瞭解一下是誰把他關阿好阿這個很怪嘛你派人家批評批評完了以後發現臉書有1064名追蹤IG有1249名粉絲比YT好一點阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15129.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15157.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
可是報告委員他們給我一個數據啦這個部分我還是要回去再查證他們說API的訪問次數達到6800多萬那網頁的瀏覽次數達到4億2000多萬這個數據我回去會再查證我今天提出來我覺得效應要好好的盯請你回去好好的查證因為你如果講的那個數字是真的10月16號這個媒體報導交通部叫大力駁斥善不假訊息啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15158.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15177.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
他上面寫的是一萬四千六百個用戶上線啊一萬四千六百個用戶上線搞虛擬觀光那我就會算啊除以九千萬大概平均一個用戶多少錢嘛是匯後的部分剛剛今天問到的問題沒有答案的匯後部長一個禮拜之內順便回覆可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15178.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15196.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
這個部分應該可以不好意思那個主席我可以借用一分鐘嗎很快請那個臺鐵局的不好意思臺鐵股份有限公司的董事長那個董事長我上次在關心那個平交道遮斷器的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15197.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15219.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
這個事情很嚴重嘛牽涉到列車的安全行人的安全經過評價報的安全那我知道你很重視啊因為我知道董事長好像過去我質詢完了以後過去這幾天四個電務段的同仁都早來開會了嘛是是嗎是那你們開會檢討完以後現在的結論是什麼覺得很安全要繼續裝嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15221.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15244.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
是跟委員報告齁那個我們也有陸續提供資料給委員齁包括我們上一次講兩週內要提不是沒有因為時間的關係所以就給我結論就是你開完會的結論是覺得這家公司做得很安全叫髒話的不要再抗拒了我們繼續裝嗎不是我們現在的做法就是因為我們有去檢視了齁該這家公司他發生的問題那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15246.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15272.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
我們要求他改善的這個整個過程我們都有去檢視那現在的確他改善以後是收斂的收到很低所以這個部分我們會特別注意好第二個我聽說你們還要再給這家公司另外開一個1.9億的標案讓他改善電源真的還假的啊因為我聽到的時候我很震驚啊我前面給你那麼多錢事情沒做好搞得不安全要延宕已經很誇張啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
15274.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
15300.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
聽說那家公司獅子大開口啊說要再開個1.9億的特別標案給他們改善電源系統有沒有這件事跟委員報告齁如果有這個案子的話我們絕對公開招標所以你的意思是說有這個案子就對了是不是有這個案子有有有這個案子他如果是公開招標應該就不一定是原本的那個廠商吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
15301.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
15328.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
就是搭配現有我們臺鐵的電源改善嘛跟那個機座改善該改善的改善該花的錢花該改善的改善該花的錢花但是廠商拿的錢事情沒做好就要他做到好為止如果做不好該解約解約該請求賠償該請求賠償這件事情董事長可不可以承諾我是可以可以好謝謝好謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
15331.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
15350.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
好,謝謝黃委員接下來有請吳立華委員發言謝謝主席,有請交通部長交通部陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
15352.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
15376.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
今天我們素發部長又來,素為部長部長好我109年進入到立法院就接到一個小型露營場合法化這樣的一個陳情訴求那陪伴了兩年做了公聽會做了質詢非常感謝交通部終於在109年的11月願意做主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
15378.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
15381.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就 «我國軌道建設執行概況》進二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
15394.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
15417.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
目前違法竟然是91%也就是說當初去處理小型露營場合法化是為了要讓他們合法納管這是為著我們消費者以及業主的權益可是我們來看一下它分兩階段第一階段是處理用地的問題有1440家去申請第一階段核准了461家 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
15422.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
15444.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
第二階段是跟錢的問題有關因為為了要去符合法規結果呢最後通過的有40家我不用問一看就知道這樣的一個成效應該是不髒啊非常的不好那我們來分析一下原因我要講第一階段是用地的部分部長你聽聽看好 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
15446.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
15469.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
國土保安用地、土石溜潛勢區、環境敏感區區有19項都會被輔導退場那這樣子幹嘛要小型露營場合法化我舉個最簡單的例子原住民很多幾乎都在國土保安用地跟土石溜潛勢區但是大家就想不通我們部落就在那邊建造都可以拿到為什麼那個樹地 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
15471.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
15491.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
可以蓋房子沒有辦法蓋帳棚那這樣子幹嘛要推動小型露營場合法化如何保障消費者的權益所以我常常講是不是我們應該也要去產分級的管理不是這樣子一律把它進建那第二個原因什麼原因哇 索費不支欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
15492.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
15510.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
因為您知道嗎?你看他們要面對環敏地區他的一個規費就6000塊然後他要去取得那些建築執照每一年安全結構就要2萬那再來水土保持這些從減益的30到60萬不等 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
15511.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
15530.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
明年起又有水污法所以他們現在都要處理花一筆污水處理廠的錢都還沒有含工程費用可能就要花掉一百萬他們也願意但是請看一下部長我們的露營廠的作業辦法好不容易編了好幾千萬要去輔導 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
15531.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
15547.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
明明交通部在111年的4月質詢的時候會議記錄也都有說過在輔導充足入法之前不會去違法取締可是他們只要一申請那些人來就先給他收一個違規取締 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
15549.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
15563.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
那這樣子到底怎麼辦所以呢是不是這個要點應該要予以修改那我再給你看一個案例這個人呢他寫LINE給我他說他為了符合第一階段第二階段他已經花130萬了結果最後又卡在什麼呢連我的砧板都要拆我要再多花二三十萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
15569.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
15592.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
他說是農業局不同意所以一堆又是中央地方政府不同調部會之間不同調好因為時間的關係零零總總我舉一個還有一個不同調的問題我們來看一下這個關於我們的露營場的範圍位於環敏地區的認定明明112年4月13號會議記錄協調會是寫著說 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
15598.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
15617.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
只要營衛設施、衛生設施管理師不得位於環境敏感地區可是隔了4個月跟地方政府會議我們交通部竟然退讓欸因為桃園市政府苗栗、新竹南投這些縣市強烈主張通通 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
15618.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
15645.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
都不行那這樣子到底要怎麼推動我都不曉得了所以我是希望說關於這些我剛剛講的帳篷啊、砧板啊這種可以隨時移動的到底要怎麼認定它位於什麼地方要怎麼認定我覺得錢大家我聽起來大家都願意花錢合法花那也需要尋求政府的幫助我自己會找原民會但是我覺得法規的部分的鬆綁 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
15646.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
15659.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
要不然沒有辦法推動我覺得是給我們的老百姓看笑話所以我在這個地方就是請部長幾個訴求像是我們原住民族土地使用管制規則這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
15662.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
15685.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
我們的國土計劃法明年上路有開放一個空間讓我們另以法律定資那我們也要推動高山農業農業部那邊我幾度質詢農業部長都尊重會配合我們國土計劃法下的原住民族土地使用管制規則我覺得這個空間我也要問交通部長願不願意來支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
15687.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
15712.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
好,報告委員,這個部分我們當然也尊重原住民的這個土地的使用那這個部分我們也會找原民會大家來溝通再結商好,那我希望說院長,我在總諮詢的時候,包括國土計畫法院長有承諾說要找一個政委召開跨部落的會議協調其他的合法化事宜那我希望說在今年底前召開,而且要複製本席可以嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
15713.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
15731.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
好,好,沒問題那謝謝齁那我在這個部分就後續我會繼續的來持續關注那也希望那個辦法要點的部分希望觀光局要趕快的來處理然後盡速的發文,可以嗎?好,我請觀光署盡速來處理好,謝謝部長齁,謝謝主席好,謝謝吳立華委員接下來有請林月琴委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
15751.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
15753.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
有請部長交通部陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
15761.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
15790.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
部長好 朋友好我今天要談的事實上是我們的高齡者交通安全好 下一頁不過要談之前先來談一下無照駕駛我上個會期呢諮詢過三次了也開過記者會了因為平均每一年大概7萬人然後最近內湖的是未成年然後三死兩傷那這樣的一個傷亡呢一個死亡事實上是1600萬的成本受傷是181萬成本所以這樣下起來大概我們的社會成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
15791.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
15814.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
將近千億所以想問希望部長在這個會期是不是對於扣車連帶處罰儘快的有一個對策下一頁這次我主要還是要來談就是我們的高齡就是說今年其實發生了多起的高齡包含我們立法院的提過高齡換照議題的賴世保委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
15817.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
15846.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
還有我們的彰化的姐弟案和文化大學便當店女老闆的案子裡邊都是高齡駕駛的肇事產生的傷害當然這是個別當事人是不是具有駕駛能力還有或者是這都要經過專業的檢測來判斷不過我們還是要去想到是已經進入到超高齡社會明年度所以這高齡化趨勢跟延伸的交通問題所以想問部長你們有沒有掌握高齡的 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
15846.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
15849.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
臺鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
15875.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
15876.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長進行專題報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
15897.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
15898.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
15914.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
15934.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
至今事實上還是沒有納管當初106年的時候說75歲以上就不要管了那110年交通部就已經知道這個問題有21%有駕車需求有沒有調查這83歲以上的那大概10萬4千人難怪今年度高齡的一個駕駛造成別人的傷害事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
15935.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
15940.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
主動關懷、鼓勵有用嗎?這是交通部自己寫的我透過鼓勵關懷,關懷這些人他就是有駕車需求啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
15961.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
15989.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
是我們的關懷是這樣子我們關懷看他們的家人可不可以協助他行的需求這第一個第二個看可不可以如果可以協助他的話可不可以把駕照給繳回就是希望他能夠不要開車但如果真的有需求那也還真的沒有辦法因為今天高齡就已經造成他人的傷亡也有可能造成自己傷亡來下一頁75歲以上超高齡的駕駛的交通事故也是持續 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
15990.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
16006.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
你再興致之後還是持續成長而且6年間成長一倍受傷人數也成長了4成所以我覺得江部不能對這種漏洞視而不見因為我們明年就即將進入到超高齡的社會所以我覺得來下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
16007.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
16009.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
16024.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
16025.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
16045.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
16069.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
三十一點九二%空死率事實上是二十五點九三我覺得要拿出一些對策來了下一頁所以我在這邊大概提醒交通部是不是兩週內是不是可以給我提供這樣的一個第一個交通部是不是應該針對超高齡的駕駛人納入高齡駕駛的管理制度主動了解長者的需求那第二個交通部應該要去提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
16070.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
16096.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
所謂的車輛安全裝置的補助甚至建立主動繳回的駕照的獎勵補助機制比照我們的日韓這些國家所以就是鼓勵所謂的企業團體像其他國家會有購物的折扣你繳回來的時候有購物的折扣甚至老花眼鏡、助聽器、電動車都有一些折扣甚至銀行的優惠利率可不可以去談這些東西甚至讓保險業加入那最後就是交通部 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
16097.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
16103.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
應持續針對偏鄉公共運輸供給普及率及使用彈性提供補助以上麻煩兩周 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
16120.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
16126.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
好 謝謝林委員接下來有請林倩琦委員發言謝謝主席我這邊有請交通部長及相關的單位好 交通部陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
16144.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
16147.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
16163.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
16181.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
好 部長您好我們上個禮拜見過在上個禮拜的總質詢本席其實跟您提到今天不僅是討論交通議題本席對於整個交通議題背後的永續發展非常的重視那希望這次質詢我們可以就這個部分做個討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
16182.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
16208.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
不過首先我要先幫元香來請命也就是我這個暑假在豐年季的時候我們鄉親就跟我談到台九縣現在一個戰備跑道部落這邊有一些反彈那裡面當然很多原因所以現在就是這個戰備跑道我知道國防部目前還在談但是很重要的是我必須要知道目前的進度因為部落對於這個部分是非常的激烈的有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
16209.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
16233.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
所以我們期待這個戰備跑道不會就在沒有好好的溝通大家都有認同度的情況下然後被建置了那你們知道在縱谷有你們那個戰機的這個回音是非常吵人的所以本席又是學音樂的所以對聲音非常的敏感所以非常深刻的可以同理在地的鄉親這樣一個訴求所以請國防部給我們一個回應而且讓我們隨時知道你們的進度好不好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
16239.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
16266.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
好那接下來就是在我們今天談文資嘛所以臺鐵其實在這個很多的車站都具有文資的一個背景或者是有文資的身份那目前有一座這個舊台鐵舊基隆的車站那它在這個月臺及雕花的這個區塊在最近臺鐵針對這個部分要做一些修整 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
16266.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
16292.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
但引發在地居民一些反彈那我不知道這個部長您有沒有去了解而且您是不是對於鐵柱雕花的棚架有一些了解是我對這個鐵柱雕花的棚架的了解是它已經是一個100多年的建築那有很多的這個網路上的朋友在講說這個很像那個門司港九州的門司港的那個車站它上面的那個那個棚架是很類似的那我也跟他謝謝那我相信您應該知道它的價值 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
16293.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
16317.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
所以臺鐵我後面要講的是你們其實應該也跟文化部這邊有一些交流大概現在從上次鐵道博物館一直到未來延伸出來在這樣整個的文物館的建設系統裡面其實你們應該非常緊密的在開會結果還會出現這樣的問題可能有點遺憾我們那個棚架有一部分已經在鐵道博物館了有拆除的部分已經在鐵道博物館收藏 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
16318.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
16318.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
文化資產法與鐵道 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
16337.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
16345.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
臺鐵有臺鐵文化保存及活用小組你們會定期的開會所以剛才本席在一開始覺得怎麼現在還會出現這個以前文資剛開始在推動時候的這個狀況是有點蠻難思議的 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
16351.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
16369.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
但是這個部分本席其實今天要講的阿里山鐵道雖然你們現在在這個主管單位農業部是佔很大的一個比例不過裡面有一些移購跟他現有的一些財產是跟你們有關的所以待會兩件事情本席第一個是要談有形文化資產跟無形文化資產的一個連結那臺鐵 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
16373.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
16374.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
16405.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
16416.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
連結這個山上跟部落的這樣一個系統是就觀光的角度這個確實是應該要連結起來然後也跟部落做一個商討那未來應該怎麼發展對觀光的推動會有幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
16417.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
16444.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
所以這邊我就是你們的觀光推動小組的功能應該要再更積極一點那大家不要互推責任因為就如上次我跟部長這邊講常常你說這不是我的業務那不是我的業務但是當我們今天談舊鐵道還有文資這樣一個概念全台我們不可能在整個清朝時期然後一直到這個日本政府時期一直到現在我們的鐵道其實是佔了臺灣很大一個比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
16445.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
16465.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
所以在文化資產方面的各種等級都必須在被考量但是阿里山鐵道有一個跟你們有關係的部分是那個車廂現在大家都在做測試但是安全係數是一個很嚴重的問題這個安全係數上過去的生鐵是在木頭現在生鐵要在旅客那我們知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
16466.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
16485.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
那個升鐵經常出了一些狀況那這個狀況你們有真正去檢測到安全係數的問題嗎?包括車輛的速度、載重、外部環境、氣候、地質本席就知道大概在上個月又有一個出軌的事件又有一個出軌事件還好那時候沒有人在車上 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
16487.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
16513.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
所以本席把這個問題給反映是是是但是那個車廂是你們的啊現在是的那我要講的一個重點就是同樣的概念雖然他現在這個林保署已經把它承接下來但是過去在鐵道的工程這個部分不是說你一承接大家就可以處理這整個系統的界面啊所以這為什麼是本席今天在這邊特別提出來因為如果有什麼狀況我們懷疑的還是鐵道是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
16517.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
16535.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
最後就是國土計畫法已經要上路了這個是文化部新平溪煤礦博物館是台灣現在唯一僅存的一個煤礦相關的園區裡面當然也有軌道本席常去每去一次就覺得我好像走在未來的歷史當中我們不知道它的軌道該怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
16536.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
16559.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
然後最重要的是現在國土計劃法要上路了那它就面臨到整個煤礦遺址的存續那這個部分軌道當然跟這個交通部的交通有關你們不要跟我講業務範圍但是很重要的是那文化的這個區塊文化部不知道你們對這個部分目前怎麼看待文化部今天應該有代表有啊主秘不是應該有來嗎對 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
16565.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
16589.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
時間關係我也不要佔用太多那主委我跟您這邊提出這樣一個問題那也請你們給本席一個報告好不好那剛才本席提了幾個議題跟問題那希望交通部這邊從交通部的高度給本席所提的永續的一個推動很具體的一個報告回應那兩個禮拜可以嗎?可以喔?好好謝謝謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
16594.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
16599.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
好 謝謝林委員 接下來有請洪孟楷委員發言好 主席謝謝 麻煩請陳部長交通部陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
16614.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
16631.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
好 部長好部長本席跟我們交委以及很多委員都很關心這個假車牌的事件是尤其假車牌現在非常氾濫那今天又看到一個新的新聞他說扣牌沒有監管買原車牌假牌啪啪走 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
16632.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
16654.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
這什麼樣的情況就是說他牌可能被扣了扣完之後他就直接上網去訂一樣的號碼那因為一樣的號碼如果說被警方查到的時候車型一樣這個車主行照什麼都一樣很有可能就被雲木混珠混過了那但是他其實是被扣牌的是所以這就變成是一個漏洞對 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
16655.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
16670.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
好 那我們看其中這個媒體他就有下一頁其中媒體他就有去訪問他講說其實如果說我們現在全台灣有ETC也有很多的一個繳費的地方各縣市警局打擊犯罪也都有側排辨識的監視器系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
16672.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
16674.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就 «我國軌道建設執行概況》進二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
16692.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
16709.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
假車牌的狀況給揪出來部長您覺得勒?我覺得這個方法是可以進入討論那這個部分我們也可以來跟這個執法單位現在執法單位是內政部警政署那這個部分我們來跟他們溝通ETC高速公路上面的ETC應該是廠商吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
16710.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
16728.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
在高工局高工局啊主要的資料會來自於交通部但有個問題就是說個資的部分會不會有影響到這個我們來研究一下好如果在不影響的狀況底下我們來跟執法單位也好或者是所謂的ETC的ETEC有裝停車場的或者高速公路上面的我們來討論這個可能性應該這麼說 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
16730.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
16752.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
今天有很多的車牌他可能有重複的我之前也聽過警界的朋友跟我講他講是說其實他們也有系統是針對假設這一個車牌號碼他出現在台北但是同時間也出現在高雄他就不可能說一個車牌號碼出在兩個地方那就一定是有一個車牌是假的 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
16752.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
16773.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
那他就會把它列為是警示的號碼那一樣的道理嘛現在的做法其實有這樣做而且現在抓到的假車牌大部分就是這個樣子在高速公路上面跑的來那我們上一頁所以部長就應該不會存在說如果說他已經被扣管沒有監管然後他再買原車牌來趴趴走的問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
16774.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
16793.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
照理講你不應該出現這個狀況所以我只點出來因為假車牌方方面面包括說你們要講是說要新的車牌要防偽但是你只有明年上市的車牌防偽可是你現有的車牌沒有防偽那還是一樣沒有辦法控管到90%現有在市面上的車牌嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
16793.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
16817.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
以及道路處罰條例我們是不是應該加重刑責是不是應該沒路車輛等等的我們都應該討論但我是說至少看到問題我們要來處理問題所以部長這可以研議什麼時候能夠告訴國人說你們有進一步的一個動作我們盡快跟執法單位來研議看未來的執法面時間會來研議看要怎麼樣讓它執法的落實更好那我們是不是兩個禮拜開個會可以吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
16818.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
16842.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
跟委員報告一下是不是給公務局一個月的時間因為跟這個委員報告這裡面包括跨機關包括這個一個月內研理相關的辦法用科技的方式來減輕我們警務同仁的一個業務量但是又能夠抓出來假車牌好嗎讓這個公務那個公路局他們趕快去找執法單位好跟警政署來協商開會好 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
16843.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
16859.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
路政司、公路局、高工局可能都需要好不好來再來請教部長有沒有注意到萬聖節要到了那今天早上北捷有個新聞他講說拒絕泰暴路血腥恐怖者的服裝上大眾運輸工具 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
16860.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
16877.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
我覺得這個在其他民主國家也有類似我印象中日本然後韓國他幾個部分第一造成恐慌啊譬如說他如果說這個都滿臉是血啦什麼可能會讓人家誤會恐慌大眾運輸那有一些是他的衣服相對來講太暴露 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
16878.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
16890.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
所以說北捷已經先喊了說大眾運輸如果說萬聖節變裝的話太暴露血腥恐怖者要拒絕在那如果說你還硬要進來的話最高罰7500塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
16892.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
16909.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
那我想請教交通部身為主管機關臺鐵、高鐵以及我們相關單位有沒有要做相關的一個不然有可能他從外縣市做高鐵來臺北可以然後就下了轉成決定不行這樣也有點奇怪啊大眾運輸應該就是要一體啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
16911.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
16937.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
部長您的看法呢委員您提醒的這個我也覺得蠻重要的如果真的太過血腥或者太過暴露或者是大家看了會不舒服的畫面在萬聖節的過程有時候會發生那在公共運輸的運具上面也會造成大家的困擾尤其有時候在之前有發生過一些比較不幸的事件大家會害怕是的我覺得這個確實是應該要討論所以在高鐵跟台鐵的部分我會請他們來研究這個問題因為萬聖節要到了如果我印象沒錯應該是這禮拜嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
16939.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
16952.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
是所以我們就趕快來研議這個問題而且可能還是要有一個標準不然的話我覺得上有政策下有對策到之後我們第一線的同仁可能也會很難認定到底你的標準是標準還是什麼部分是 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
16953.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
16970.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
大家認定的部分應該會差不多啦我們也會跟北捷來討論也參考北捷的經驗他的經驗跟他的標準現在北捷已經說了就是他要開罰巨債那其他的大眾運輸我也希望是說我們國家不要說一國多製的概念最後部長一分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
16972.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
16989.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
之前葉元智委員有質詢關於太阪輕軌那本席一方面泰山一方面葉元智委員是板橋所以他其實橫跨我跟葉元智委員的選區那我們也都非常的關心尤其我也知道新北市府他送了三次給我們鐵道局但是都被推薦 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
16990.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
17001.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
那你也承諾說一個月內會召集相關會議包括新北市政府共同來開會我覺得中央要嚴格把關沒有問題但是一次把問題講清楚比如說ABCDEFG讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
17003.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
17023.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
執行單位他們一次把這些疑點釐清再送上來不要說今天講ABC送來然後我退回明天講CD送來我退回一次把它給釐清所以這一個月開會現在開會了嗎報告委員他們的報告還沒有送過來那上次葉元之委員講到現在應該一個月了嗎還沒到 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
17025.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
17051.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
上一次議員之委員講是說你們一個月內找新北市府的共同來把那個疑點一次講我們已經在約集會議了已經約了是不是部長本期也拜託因為除了太阪輕軌被退三次以外巴黎輕軌也有被退建還有我們包括本期選區裡面我們也希望能夠爭取林口歸山的這個跨縣市的輕軌 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
17053.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
17071.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
那未來這是不是能夠都比照辦理相關的這種流程我要說要求的是鐵道局一次把疑點給釐清讓地方政府能夠去補相關的一個資料不要說這一次挑三個下一次挑四個那永遠都是在攻防往返啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
17072.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
17095.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
我們一個案一個案來討論但是輕軌建設我們一起努力好不好因為這個真的是不只是市民的期待也是跨縣市的期待也是生活圈更繁榮交通的一個期待好不好部長知道禮拜五你要來本席的淡江大橋來看這個上次我看那邊有一次這是第二次對所以歡迎部長來淡水謝謝謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
17100.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
17104.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
好 謝謝洪委員接下來有請楊瓊英委員發言謝謝主席 楊瓊英發言 邀請部長數位部嗎那個交通部交通部陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
17130.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
17155.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
部長好那省紀部呢日前他有發布了一個2023年臺鐵霧點的次數的一個統計有超過了143萬次那發生的這個發生率呢是達到了兩成多20.4%那所以在這樣的情況之下呢我們看到霧點機率甚至比2022年還要高 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
17157.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
17158.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
17168.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
17190.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
有高於50%所以顯現我們霧點偏高的情況是有需要做檢討的但是當提出了這樣子臺鐵是說部長您注意聽他是說現行國際標準為列車到達終點站要延誤5分鐘以內才被列為準點列車 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
17192.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
17213.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
但是省紀部以誤點延誤的超過一分鐘來計算所以如此的這樣的一個情況本需要請教部長也就是你認為我們臺鐵這樣的一個情況是不是我們應該要滾動式的檢討去改善它的誤點率請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
17214.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
17234.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
報告委員您所講的這個數據在我上任的第一天臺鐵就跟我說霧點綠的這個時間在國際上是算五分鐘那我第一個感受也會跟您一樣會覺得那也算五分鐘所以我也特別問了說有哪些國家是認定是五分鐘結果我問起來應該是大部分的國家都是絕大部分的國家都是以五分鐘作為霧點綠的計算所以會跟審計部的數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
17236.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
17264.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
有點不太一樣因為他們的目前今年的準點率如果扣掉天災的話應該有到97點多但委員跟你們報告我第一天上任搭臺鐵到台中那一天剛好延遲了5分鐘下車媒體們問的第一個問題就是說部長請問你搭的臺鐵那個延遲5分鐘你什麼感受那我就說嗯那個以他們給我的數據這還算在準點率裡面那天其實是4分鐘不是5分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
17264.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
17294.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
那還是算在準點率裡面但我覺得臺鐵還可以再加強因為現在大家搭高鐵搭得很習慣高鐵的時間非常的精準我希望它可以前進到跟高鐵一樣的水準部長還好你一個但還要再加強當然要還好你講這一句不然前面聽的我心驚驚因為我再要給你一個數字政府一直鼓勵我們再減碳那麼政府要鼓勵民眾搭乘這個大眾交通工具呢那推行T-pass |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
17294.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
17321.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
那政策上錄到現在我們大概有768.8萬人士在加值購買這個通勤月票對不對這是我們政府鼓勵人家的那如果污點那麼高機率那麼高那跟政府的美意他就要打折啦所以你剛才說的我們拿出這個議題民眾是希望讓他能夠便利能夠準時在這樣的一個情況之下我們還是有滾動式檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
17323.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
17328.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
的空間,對不對?那你們去檢討好不好?那多久時間可以告訴本席呢?你們去檢討你們的方案,你給社會大眾知道你關於T-PASS的就有將近要800萬人,你要讓他們安心啊!好,你什麼時候可以告訴本席?多久時間告訴本席?你的方案怎麼去精準? |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
17348.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
17352.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
是我們我們沒關係你告訴我時間部長多久時間兩週內兩個禮拜內將我們怎麼樣霧點的距離降低怎麼樣這個時間可以整點的方案精進兩個禮拜內給本席以讓我們大眾運輸的這些乘客他都能夠放心這是政府應當要做的兩個禮拜 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
17370.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
17387.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
那接下來本席要請教15歲少年那麼開車出車禍了造成三個人死亡這個讓各界大家都引起這個關注未成年無照駕駛的數量平均每一年有多少件部長你看4.3萬件 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
17390.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
17418.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
那麼我們臺灣現有的罰則那麼僅有罰款、扣車牌那對於整個經濟條件的優異的犯罪者他的懲罰效果是非常的薄弱的而且發生這樣的事情引起社會的嘩然我相信部長你也非常的難過那難過之餘我們政府有什麼樣的因應方案每一年有四萬三千件這最近這五年來的一個統計 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
17419.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
17440.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
讓我們很憂心所以本席要請教如果以目前的處理方式它是這麼的薄弱那請教部長你是不是認同我國可以無照駕駛的這個法則有檢討的空間有沒有檢討的空間報告委員法則的部分在去年有加重過一次但是現在社會還希望它再繼續加重所以是不是有檢討的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
17443.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
17450.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
有檢討的空間然後接下來本席要具體跟你建議你應該可以參考日本的做法他加入什麼角質 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
17454.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
17481.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
輔導措施來降低無照駕駛的發生率這個非常重要因為你再怎麼樣提高它還是發生所以在這樣的情況之下你必須要加入其他的元素參考其他世界各國本局具體建議我提出的是日本的方式加入了腳趾跟輔導措施預防重瘀治療去告訴他們無照你不能開車那麼其他國家還有其他的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
17481.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
17499.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
你是不是成立一個專案將世界各國無照駕駛的方案怎麼去要去圍堵罰車也好那麼你去做一個專案好嗎這個非常重要多久時間可以告訴我們社會大眾我們來研究一下各國的方案那你大概多久時間可以告訴本席 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
17500.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
17520.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
一個月的時間好不好一個月內你將世界各國我就已經提出日本給你做參考他們甚至連綠房都加入了我們必須要如此做就正如你說的我們去年提高他還是一樣這樣子生命誠可貴這不行的好不好一個月內提出這個監禁方案最後一個議題大客車國道大型車的事故頻繁 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
17525.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
17541.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
他不只是生命安全的一個風險他也是財產的一個損失那麼受影響在國道上面車流也會增加我們的社會成本我們經常一整排又停在那邊動彈不擇在這樣的情況之下本席給你數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
17542.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
17562.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
截至今年10月17號開始,我們國道已經發生54件死亡的車禍,大型載重車如大貨車、連結車17件。它的占比是32%,造勢原因是什麼?分心疲勞駕駛,有11件。它這樣子的一個分心疲勞駕駛是占了65%。 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
17565.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
17581.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
部長你看到這個數字心驚膽跳啊所以在這樣的一個情況之下本市長要請教你交通部應該具體的去有對策來降低我們國道的這個事故你要怎麼做啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
17581.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
17610.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
針對這個議題我們最近也有關注到所以我們有特別請高工局跟公路局針對大型車輛的這個運行的過程當中在監理的手段我們可以做什麼樣的工作可以來減少這樣的可能性發生所以目前已經正在討論當中尤其分心疲勞駕駛這一點非常重要佔了65%所以你就精進這個方案也是給社會大眾了解那多久時間可以告訴本席呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
17610.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
17611.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
王宏威委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
17630.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
17657.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
葉元芝委員葉元芝葉元芝委員不在張家俊委員張家俊張家俊委員不在接下來有請蔡易瑜委員發言謝謝主席那是有請我們部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
17658.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
17659.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
交通部陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
17670.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
17689.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
部長,想跟你聊一個,雖然是陳情案,不過你過去也是民意代表出身嘛那民意代表在遇到陳情的時候,跟部會溝通難免都會遇到部會有堅持,那我們在陳情的內容跟部會沒有辦法達到很好的一個共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
17689.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
17712.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
那我要舉的這一個就是實質上在去年發生的就是去年在這個南下112年10月的時候就南下68K的地方有一個地方那個國道1啦還要有那個測速照相然後公五密集的有很多大型車輛連結超速 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
17714.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
17741.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
那超速當然是因為警政署他們的這個測速照相機拍攝起來是超速的但是這些連結車都舉出了他們自己車內的叫做大餅這類大餅就是行車紀錄器這個大餅的行車紀錄器他就是他的速度有跑到哪邊他就會做如實的一個刻畫來可不可以跟著我的那一頁對他就會有如實的這個刻畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
17742.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
17754.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
那後來他的這個行車記錄器呈現的是沒有超速的沒超速結果他就去調GPS調GPS可能是調這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
17758.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
17786.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
ETC或者是吊GPS那後來也都從他的一個間接的一個距離來看起來也不應該有超速因為不是個案,累積起來不差很多所以我就定義大家人口口的然後含交通部警政署的警政署堅持他們的測速照相機沒有問題可是交通部對於自己測試合格的這個行車紀錄器就是大餅 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
17788.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
17793.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
你們卻沒辦法堅持說你們的勤勞技術是一定百分之百準確 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
17794.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
17823.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
這樣就不對了如果這個連結車沒有去加裝這個行車紀錄器的話你們是會處罰一萬兩千元以上兩萬四千元以下你要求這都一定要增還不然會處罰可是這個行車器在於說他一旦他被抓到測速的時候抓到超速的時候他要拿出來去證明說他沒有超速你大家說這不採用以警政署的為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
17824.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
17826.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
咦,這樣一看起來,你們交通部真沒錢欸,怎麼這樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
17828.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
17854.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
來是報告委員我自己這樣聽起來我會覺得對交通部這邊來說應該要對自己的這個記錄器上面的數字要有信心畢竟我們是用這個在監管跟監理大型的車輛的這個所謂用大餅來監管他們的車速跟他們的行車的狀況所以交通部自己本身當然要對這方面的數據要有信心這樣聽起來我是認為說交通部應該要堅持這方面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
17855.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
17877.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
對部長我跟你說這個大餅就是齁為了連結車如果發生事故嘛對不對然後要來證明說確確你有沒有危險駕駛所以這個如果要來證明駕駛人有犯罪的時候哇他是有證據力的喔是啊沒錯阿現在倒過來喔駕駛人要來證明我沒有違規的時候哇沒有證據力是 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
17878.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
17901.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
我覺得這好納悶而且我還有找我們那個標準局來講標準局也說他很有信心如果是他們標準局檢驗過的行車註書區不會有問題所以這個就存在兩個可能一個就是測速照相機有問題一個就是行車註書有問題因為兩個數據差很多嘛那所以我們左用我國軌道建設執行概況他們左拿ETC當然ETC因為它是間接 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
17903.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
17904.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長就 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
17934.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
17961.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
交通部就在大便這個不採納為什麼這個報告委員我覺得這樣聽起來我也認為不合理啦所以讓我回去跟他們瞭解一下為什麼會對自己的數據是部長你可以回去瞭解可是他們會給你一個答案我叫他們去打行政訴訟哇我跟你說很抱歉行政訴訟這些價值人也打輸了也打輸了也打輸了他們就是認為說因為你們自己不堅持你們的大餅有證據力啊是是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
17962.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
17985.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
這個部分我是不是跟委員報一下確實警察機關弄的測速雷達跟這個行車紀錄器這兩個這個速度計算各有精度的一個這個要求那剛剛委員也提到就是說那如果說是在國道上面的話那至少還有一個ETC區間的這個速率可以來那ETC也是證明駕駛人比較合理啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
17985.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
18007.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
對阿在於這個就是說交通違規的處理基本上大概有兩道這個程序第一道先這一個申訴那申訴的這個部分是由處罰機關來對監理所所以你們來這個處理那目前處罰機關的一個處理就是比較相信行政機關相信這一個行政機關的部分那第二道申訴沒有辦法過的時候你講這句話我就不接受阿你相信的是誰的行政機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
18008.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
18026.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
你們相信的是內政部的行政機關你們是不相信你們自己交通部的行政機關我現在就在生氣這一點你知道嗎我剛剛跟委員報告是還沒講完我說第二道就是打這個行政訴訟那其實像這樣子的東西器材精準度的東西應該在第一道申訴制度就要把它處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
18027.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
18029.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
二、邀請交通部鐵道局局長陳世凱、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
18058.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
18074.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
有來的差不多十幾個,但是在一個賴的群組的自救會有六十幾個這些職業駕駛人基本上,他們都很辛苦,因為他們都刮眉毛他白天還要來立法院陳情,基本上是把他們要休息的時間都消化掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
18075.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
18102.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
但是你也知道現在駕駛人他一旦超速違規對於職業駕駛人來傷害多大甚至有很多企業就說你有你有這樣超速違規一定會替你記點記點下去他就落久的時間他就不能開車我覺得這個議題有檢討的空間這個傷害性是非常的大這裡有檢討的空間對然後我現在很氣憤的就是說當我在協調的時候交通部對於自己的技術的準確性是不堅持的 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].start |
18103.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].end |
18123.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].text |
所以棄守這一塊直接說那都以車速照相為主這個絕對有檢討的空間啦所以我回去之後會請公路局他們來檢討這件事情建立一個新的處理的機制如果當兩邊的數據不一樣的時候該怎麼處理大家來建立一個機制OK好那對部長那希望這件事再面對一下好謝謝謝謝好謝謝蔡委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].start |
18130.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].end |
18159.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].text |
交通部我來針對這個是真的要好好研究一下因為剛剛蔡委員特別說因為那個大餅上面說什麼日期上面沒有可是現在電腦科技發展到這麼多你怎麼會讓一個駕駛你這個餅放進去就上面就要標註日期是哪一個人開的應該要有一些不是沒有日期他是說他的準確性不夠準確性不夠那就交通部好好研究一下到底準不準 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].start |
18170.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].end |
18183.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].text |
好好研究給蔡委員跟關心的這個架勢一個答案接下來請邱志偉委員、邱志偉委員發言不在蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員不在賴士寶委員、賴士寶委員不在接下來有請陳佩瑜委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].start |
18200.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].end |
18205.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].text |
好謝謝主席那有請臺鐵董事長謝謝好臺鐵杜董事長好委員好董事長午安快速跟您請教基隆這兩天的案子好那你們已經有說了不會拆會原地保留但是我想要從個案來談通案因為我知道臺鐵自己在重規處底下有成立文資科 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].start |
18227.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].end |
18253.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].text |
那在你們2022的新聞裡面也有提到說你們會為請很多專家學者甚至結合臺鐵各地的志工盤點相關的文化資產可是屢次只要看到臺鐵跟文資的事情幾乎是有一個新聞事件你們就回應一個新聞事件可是以我縱規這幾年來其實臺鐵對於文資保存這件事情其實我必須說非常的消極 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].start |
18254.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].end |
18280.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].text |
就算我們現在有了所謂的鐵舶籌備原處它都是跟文化部有關但是臺鐵自己對於現在狹下不管是硬體或是書面資料或者是很多大家對於文資的想像說實話我相信這可能是在臺鐵轉型之後還來不及立刻面對的議題但是時間一直在走這個文資的困境我想董事長你一定心裡面也知道不能等 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].start |
18281.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].end |
18293.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].text |
因為說實話他可能瞬間沒有了就沒有了但是如果每次只是新聞事件以後被罵完那我會覺得很可惜所以董事長你可不可以在有限的時間裡面給我們一個比較全面的承諾對於現在文資科他要嘛是因為層級太低或者是因為法規範的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].start |
18300.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].end |
18315.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].text |
或是因為預算不足的問題到底是什麼樣的問題讓臺鐵在文資處理上現在是處於這個狀態那日後我們到底可以怎麼做讓臺鐵的文資這件事情真的可以日後變成臺鐵非常重要的一個亮點 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].start |
18316.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].end |
18336.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].text |
是那跟委員報告齁其實這個案子來講的話齁他沒有在我們文資科跟企劃處的狹內我知道因為他不在你們的文資名單上對對對那在文資名單上的我們都會依照我們文資科成立的我們還有訂定很多的辦法來去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].start |
18337.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].end |
18349.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].text |
那這個個案來跟委員報告這個個案是其實原來基隆站的第一跟第二月台等一下那個董事長因為我時間有限我們不要耽誤其他委員的時間我都說我沒有要從這個個案來看我要從個案談通案 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].start |
18352.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].end |
18370.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].text |
日後臺鐵對於文資保存的態度一個是您所說的他已經在文資的名單上我相信你們會積極的去維護跟保存並且結合專家學者我都相信你們是有這個認知也會有這個態度但是我要談的像基隆這件事情就是因為他不在文資名單上 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].start |
18371.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].end |
18395.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].text |
但是他在很多專家學者的眼中他是重要的文資那臺鐵對這件事情的態度所以我剛問是因為文資科目前的層級太低導致於他預算不足人力不足或是法規範不足導致於他沒有辦法好好的做文資還是因為我們大家對於文資的態度認知不同還是說這件事情可能根本不在臺鐵這幾年的重要業務內容當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].start |
18397.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].end |
18414.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].text |
跟委員報告齁 這個容我講完齁 那個 這個兩個月台基隆兩個月台的這個這個雨棚齁 其實在前面的過程我們都有找這個文化局或者是文資局相關單位專家學者辦過會刊的 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].start |
18415.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].end |
18430.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].text |
那這個原先有的這些跨數的這個雨棚現在有一部分已經被拆下來保存在基隆市府那邊有一部分被拆下來保留在鐵博館那邊剩下這五塊剩下這五塊在後面 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].start |
18434.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].end |
18456.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].text |
我們還是很慎重我們有去找文資單位來認定說它是不具文化價值所以才會不在我們文資科或者是企劃處的轄管內那這個部分也跟委員報告了那後面我們如果有這種類似這種就是很有紀念保存價值的東西我們會擴大範圍就是我們還是會慎重以對 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].start |
18460.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].end |
18479.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].text |
然後盡量能夠在前置作業的時候能夠找到更好的方式來對它做個鑑定看是不是要納到我們的文資保護的這個範圍裡面來執行我剛剛也說我們我們其實在質詢前我們做過功課我們知道你們有文資科我們也知道你們開始列相關名單 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].start |
18480.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].end |
18503.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].text |
但是我覺得尷尬就是像這樣不在你們名單當中但是也有很多人認為他是有文資價值的如同你剛剛說的你們的所謂全面盤點要開展嗎而這個盤點除了在名單上不在名單上的要不要開始收集大家的意見而一旦收集了意見你們也要開始去採認又要跟縣市地方政府合作所以我剛剛其實有明白的問你們是不是因為預算不夠的問題還是人力不夠的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].start |
18505.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].end |
18527.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].text |
還是因為相關行政的層級太低導致於董事長您在推行相關業務的時候其實是有遇到困難的我的意思是說立法院絕對支持臺鐵做這樣的事情除了在營業項目然後增加營業額之外讓大家看到臺鐵是一個有能力賺錢的公司但是我們也不要忘記臺灣鐵路文化有非常非常多 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].start |
18527.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].end |
18538.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].text |
有特色的而且有記憶亮點的事情需要被保存所以我才想請教董事長你如何更全面性的看待這個事情今天我們需要您公開的承諾跟說明這件事情好那各位人報告剛剛講到有關於專責的人力這個我們現在公司已經有在禁用我們的從業人員其實我們禁用從業人員其實我們公司很有靈活度的現在在文資課的同仁就不是以前鐵路特考進來的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].start |
18557.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].end |
18580.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].text |
這裏面有很高學歷而且是專長的我非常開心聽到這個第二個就是預算預算我們公司成立今年開始我們對於文資這個處理的預算我們都有編到我們的一般建築就是我們自己的預算裏面但是我們還有另外一個規劃就是我盤點好以後我們在115年我們會有一個整體計劃我們打算要 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].start |
18585.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].end |
18604.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].text |
就是跟文化部那邊來做一個合作把整個計畫把它做出來那也希望文化部那邊能提供我們協助好 所以聽起來你們會人力上有增補新的人力並且董事長你的承諾是專業的人力那你們有沒有考慮日後跟專家學者在115這個計畫進行之前辦相關的公聽會或座談會 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].start |
18607.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].end |
18631.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].text |
因為我剛說一定有很多文資在你們的政策視野中是不在你的想像中但是在專家學者眼中他是有意義的他需要被保留跟需要被討論的是 那個你訂這個計畫是有的好 那我們辦公室也會再持續追蹤我覺得你今天 董事長今天態度非常正向我們也希望後續相關文資議題的討論我們臺鐵可以一直走在這個方向上好 是好 謝謝董事長 謝謝主席 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].start |
18634.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].end |
18653.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].text |
好,謝謝陳委員接下來有請鍾嘉斌委員、鍾嘉斌、鍾嘉斌委員不在鄭振前委員、鄭振前、鄭振前委員不在高金素梅委員、高金素梅、高金素梅委員不在接下來有請劉建國委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].start |
18661.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].end |
18678.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].text |
好 謝謝主席剛剛聽陳委員在這個垂詢杜董事長聽了還蠻高興的就臺鐵的文資嘛那我就先請杜董事長部長先休息一下那也請部長聽聽我跟杜董事長的這樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].start |
18686.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].end |
18705.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].text |
臺鐵局變成臺鐵公司之後,董事長有在文資這一塊確實有做了一個蠻大幅度的調整,來招聘更多的這些更專業、更好的這些人才,來針對臺鐵相關的文資保存歷史建物,來做這樣的一個處理。當然還是要文化部來做協助。那我再請教一下, |
| transcript.whisperx[745].start |
18707.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].end |
18726.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].text |
我現在有看到這個古蹟臺南站在修繕臺鐵是預計要11月底絕標嗎?那個11月底絕標是臺南市政府的文資局他協助我們做現況調查的也有臺南市政府、地方政府去協助你們做現況的調查調查的調查對不對?那斗蘭,歷史進入斗蘭火車站勒? |
| transcript.whisperx[746].start |
18735.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].end |
18744.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].text |
我要提醒我要提醒董事長齁這個是政前部長現在的正副院長林前部長齁加農兄都有到過地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].start |
18745.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].end |
18769.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].text |
是對那個跟委員報告齁斗南委員剛剛提到的是那個舊站是啊那是舊站啊現在就不用修了我們現在齁有有編列那個修復的經費了我們預計在七千萬七千萬嗎對我們預計在明年的四月明年四月對來公告發包公告發包所以你們系社什麼時候完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].start |
18774.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].end |
18776.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].text |
我特別提到是在鄭前部長的時候就已經到這個地方來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].start |
18790.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].end |
18791.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].text |
臺鐵在整個歷史建物在整個文化資產的一個維護裡面然後進而把它變成一個亮點 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].start |
18807.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].end |
18822.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].text |
那甚至後來林前部長在另外王前部長也都有在到這地方我們希望這地方串聯整個倉庫的這個整修甚至可以變成一個鐵道文化園區 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].start |
18824.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].end |
18846.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].text |
圖顯整個台鐵對這個地方的重視而且它不只倉庫聯動的倉庫不只這個舊站體還有一個新站體嘛對不對然後周遭還有蠻多是台鐵的土地所以這個地方要變成一個台鐵的這個陡嵐的鐵道文化園區文化部也支持那我們台鐵局現在的第一步的作為是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].start |
18848.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].end |
18872.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].text |
各位委員報告據我的了解現在除了我們這個斗南那個舊站的整修以外其實周遭包括剛剛委員講的倉庫還有一些土地現在應該比較多是屬於那個市政府縣政府的縣政府的所以要成立一個比較大範圍的那個文化園區的一個規劃這個我們應該要跟縣政府一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].start |
18876.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].end |
18891.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].text |
努力啦呃 沒關係啦呃 就規劃的方面 董事長好 那 那到底規劃的第一步有踏出去了嗎也也 不然 不然就這麼講嘛齁你們的第一步是什麼就簡單 明確答我就好了嘿 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].start |
18892.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].end |
18915.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].text |
這第一步的話當然是要去規劃一下他的範圍啊有了嗎?有規劃了嗎?還沒有,目前還沒有對嘛?對嘛?對,就從鄭前部長現在這位院長一直到林建永部長一直到王國宅部長連王國宅部長都有去我記得當時的杜學長也有去過對不對?我們最後那個地方是屬於你們台北局的 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].start |
18916.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].end |
18942.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].text |
我們希望走到那一個樓上新站的二樓看過去的那個很大倉庫那也是台鐵局的右邊的土地也是台鐵局的火車站的正對面好像寶雅租的那塊周遭的土地也都是台鐵局的那個腹地何其之大對 那我們經歷過一個文化部長兩個前部長你們到現在規劃的地步都還沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].start |
18944.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].end |
18964.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].text |
好,這個跟委員報告,這個我回去再趕快我們來進行我們的一個研議啦好了,辦公局長,一個月內給我們一個第一步的計畫好不好第一步,我只要求第一步的計畫,就跨出去的計畫就好初步的一個評估的一個做法啦,設想一個月內嘛,可以吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].start |
18965.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].end |
18982.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].text |
那就代表剛剛杜董事長在答覆陳委員的確實你在這個地方有做調整我相信臺鐵今天要高鐵啦齁要跟高鐵讓消費者有所區別啦齁坦白講臺鐵一定要利用這些文資啦這些文資利用得越精緻啦越到位啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].start |
18983.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].end |
18984.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].text |
臺鐵越花光花熱 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].start |
19000.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].end |
19021.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].text |
謝謝陳部長這個我們交通部署有報告是這樣臺鐵建設三輪分別110年有5次、113年有3次重大的形成事故那113年一般事故平均42件一場事件平均發生是600餘件那脫落起來就是一般加一場就是642件坦白講平均一天就17.51.75的事故 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].start |
19024.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].end |
19039.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].text |
我部長部長對這大大小小事故要怎麼如何進行這個檢討這個數字確實是國人看起來不會很滿意所以今天的報告的第一個重點就是說確保安全的部分要先做好第二才是提升服務品質的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].start |
19040.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].end |
19066.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].text |
所以這個部分其實我看臺鐵有相當多的計畫在處理安全的這個議題那不過我認為橫向的聯繫跟橫向的這個討論可能還不太足夠那這個部分我們正在整合當中安全的部分很多的計畫都在推行有點跌窗架屋然後很多的計畫都有點延宕這個部分我們一項一項拿出來正在檢討跟討論那再來就是它的橫向的部分安全的橫向聯繫的部分幾個系統該怎麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].start |
19069.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].end |
19088.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].text |
連繫起來這個我們也在努力跟他們討論當中好,那個細項很多啦時間關係沒辦法討論對不對,太多了642件,大致上的歸類我也沒有說部長要在這邊討論但部長知道今年的1月到7月這個一般加異常事故已經累積幾件了 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].start |
19089.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].end |
19094.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].text |
不想知道嗎委員您上面有寫551件551件你看他到1到7月就已經551件現在已經10月了我們手上沒有89的資料顯然已經超越112年的沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].start |
19107.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].end |
19126.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].text |
我們認為它的穩定性確實是要加強尤其在公司化之後我們是希望公司化之後效率要提升那如果公司化之後效率又更低那當然是不好那幾個方面要處理一方面就是我剛剛在講的那些計畫要好好的進行第二其實我有發現說臺鐵在近一兩年裡面人才的流失是個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].start |
19127.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].end |
19142.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].text |
所以這個部分我們也正在努力留才的部分怎麼樣讓他的薪資能提高怎麼樣讓他的工作環境能夠更好讓人才能夠留下來因為臺鐵很多都是技術面的問題那如果人才流動的很快速的話其實對於技術面的保留是不好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].start |
19142.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].end |
19162.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].text |
所以部長知道這是一個核心的問題嘛連監察院都有針對台鐵安全改革執行的這個審核通知事項有去揭露三缺嘛我們台鐵有三缺嘛對不對這三缺很清楚缺信心、缺能力、缺法制然後我知道目前為止借領退休有200多位 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].start |
19163.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].end |
19191.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].text |
然後特考上的因故位卻者又一百五十幾位這補不進來補不到位然後到時候可能會面臨將近兩千餘人的空缺跟委員報告不是這樣的不是這樣我們估計從公司成立一直到今年的年底我們大約會有包含那個在1月1號優退的包含那個我們在今年的年底大概會有15 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].start |
19192.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].end |
19208.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].text |
一、五、四、三人來調走或者是退休或者就是離開但是我們從去年的特考一直延續到今年的從業人員考試我們一共進用了一、六、二、三人 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].start |
19209.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].end |
19227.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].text |
所以人力上是夠的而且我們在年底之前我們還會再禁用722人人力上確定是夠的所以監察院的報告是有問題但是剛剛有一個重點就是新進來的人我們要怎麼樣能夠讓他留得住 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].start |
19228.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].end |
19229.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].text |
臺鐵的員工都很辛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].start |
19244.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].end |
19265.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].text |
董事長就是有義務要照顧好他們對不對所以這個缺信心在經常在報告裡面放在第一項這是很恐怖一件事情是不是這些事情我們也不希望一般加那個異常事故會再一直的往上提升改制之後反而說還比去年還更多這個是不是請部長這邊折騰一個月內一個檢討修正報告給我們做參考好不好好謝謝謝謝部長謝謝董事長謝謝主席謝謝好謝謝劉委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].start |
19276.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].end |
19300.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].text |
好接下來有請徐欣盈委員徐欣盈徐欣盈委員不在李坤澄委員李坤澄李坤澄委員不在好目前登記質詢委員經與發言完畢做以下決定第一報告及詢答完畢第二委員郵號黃建豪 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].start |
19304.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].end |
19317.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].text |
前期林建祺所提書面執行列入記錄並刊登公報。第三、委員於執行中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆的部分,請相關機關競訴與書面答覆。 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].start |
19320.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].end |
19336.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].text |
謝謝今天所有列席的各個部門現在休息明天早上9點繼續開會明天早上9點部長還是會來嗎?陳部長那黃部長辛苦了我一直推薦結果大家沒有問不能怪我謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].start |
19354.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].end |
19354.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].text |
主席 |