| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8398b1826590a609c01349ae01fabb6716e636471cd401be6059d4d42a7fce21a4e0156b391606ab5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-10-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第2會期第5次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢。 二、10月18日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。 三、10月22日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 影片長度 |
30342 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:18 - 16:56:00 |
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發言會現在繼續開會先處理朝野黨團協商結論請議事人員宣讀立法院黨團協商結論時間113年10月21日星期一下午1時30分地點紅樓101會議室決定事項一請各黨團於11月6日星期三下午5時前將113年度中央政府總預算案 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1833.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1858.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
三、附屬單位預算營業及非營業部分之提案,送至財政委員會會診,遇時不再收案。 二、財政委員會收案後,交各該委員會整理、呼應相關提案後。 於11月8日下午10時前,提供各黨團及相關行政部門參考。 請行政部門先行向提案委員及黨團進行雙向說明,落實溝通以利後續進行密集協商。 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1859.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1872.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
主持人韓國瑜、江啟臣、協商代表傅坤琦、林世民、王宏輝、吳斯堯、蔡義渝、柯建銘、黃國昌、吳春成、麥玉珍宣讀完畢請問院會對以上朝野黨團協商結論有依 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1875.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1892.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
五一通過。113年10月21日朝野黨團協商結論經決定如下,請各黨團於11月6日下午50前將113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1894.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1914.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
預算營業及非營業部分之提案,送至財政委員會會長,欲時不再收案。 二、財政委員會收案後,交各該委員會整理復印相關提案後,於11月8日下午50前,提供各黨團及相關行政部門參考。 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1916.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1941.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
請行政部門先行向提案委員及黨團進行雙項說明、落實溝通,以利後續進行密集協商。法院會現在在議場二樓旁聽席的是新北市中山國小的同學,我們在此歡迎他們到立法院參訪。法院會現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1944.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1953.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢。今天繼續進行個人質詢、交通組織質詢。請賴委員瑞隆質詢。好,謝主席,請卓院長。請卓院長備詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1974.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2002.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
院長辛苦了 首先還是要談其實我認為總預算其實是憲政的問題是權力分立是責任政治的問題那行政跟立法應該本以自己的憲政權責來施政我認為這個才是國家之福那現在我們的憲法的規定跟預算法的規定其實都非常的清楚那這個院長後面這樣的僵局怎麼解決你怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2004.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2021.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
謝謝委員讓我再度有機會來說出我心裡從一開始到今天為止始終如一的一個想法只有一種想法就只能我在上一次的臉書的文章所說的其實行政院只有一個立場只有一個堅持 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2021.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2040.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
就是以後編列預算一定要按照憲法70條的精神,預算法93條的規定,如果立法院在審查預算的時候有增加稅出減少稅入,一定要徵詢行政院的意見,同時要指出資金、彌補資金的來源。 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2042.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2069.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
必要的時候還要進行必要的修法如果能夠進行這樣的程序兩院之間互相尊重毫無問題院長提出一個很關鍵性的問題啦就過去以來有的話通常也都是行政院其實是認可的也支持的所以才能夠進行但行政院有所疑慮要負這個政治責任的其實最後是行政院提出來任何那國家的資源有限下都一定要做一些適度一些調配跟整理 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2069.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2071.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
二、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2092.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2112.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
每個政黨都有機會成為執政黨,都有機會成為國會的多數黨,但是應該把這個行政和立法的權責確立清楚,我任何國家才能長治久安,院長同意這樣的看法嗎?完全沒錯,如果履行剛剛的程序,兩院之間互相尊重,絕對沒有問題。同時,大法官4-391號他寫得非常清楚,無論是審議、審查、審議或是法律案, |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2118.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2135.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
涉及施政計畫內容的變動或調整,就算你預算項目移動或追加,非常重要,亦導致政策成敗無所歸屬,責任政治難以確立,有違行政權、立法權分立。 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2137.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2162.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
應該各本所施之制衡原理,因為憲法所不許。 憲法391非常,四字391非常清楚寫到這一頁。所以這個其實非常清楚,現在院長所堅持的也不是只有你而已,其實堅持的是一套制度啦,不然這個東西,惡例一旦延續下去,每次都可以這樣做的話,那大概整個責任政治會混亂掉,同時間整個行政立法的體系又會整個混亂掉。此離開皆總而來。 是。 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2164.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2164.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
因為在10月11日韓院長跟我的 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2189.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2218.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
跟草原黨團的參與當中副院長也在場其實那天談的內容大家還好但出來之後都說破局破冷水其實那天我跟韓院長心中非常清楚協商即將開始所以隔週馬上有協商開始所以我在10月18日才寫了剛剛的那個文章但是就是大家對於所謂依法這兩個字各有解讀不同所以前天我才用這個更簡單的引語其實這個重點只有第三點 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2219.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2225.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
就是我們建議只要同意以後不會如此要求 只此一次下不為例 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2227.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2252.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這次我們可以加點費用來解決這個問題所以等於是也加一個梯子讓大家有個台階下來有個緩和的方式下來之後那就這一次僵局已經造成了我們就解這一次就好了但是未來的部分還是要回歸到整個憲政跟這一次用一個特例的方式去處理它這一次還要還是要回頭來補行預算法93條的規定徵詢行政的意見那我們會做必要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2252.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2252.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
委員ﷺ |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2268.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2272.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我認為其實不管是行政院特別是立法院都是要來解決問題啦,如果你只是要否決掉而已喔,這個你提出的方法我都不同意,那你釋憲我也不同意,那你所謂什麼所有的人這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2293.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2296.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
行政院提出這樣的方法,嘗試解決,那我還沒有看到朝野協商之間有沒有一個好的方法來討論。 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2312.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2328.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
但這是一種方法啦,另外裡面我看到了,院長裡面有提到啦,就所謂的仲裁,其實就是你講的,其實就是我們講的釋憲啦,釋憲也是另外一種方式嘛,就是你釋憲交由憲法法,你就要大法官來做最後的一個確定,那怎樣的,那最後的大法官的確定出來該怎麼辦就怎麼辦嘛, |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2330.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2352.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
大法官認為是立法院違憲立法院就退回這樣的方式如果大法官會作出行政院違憲的話那當然行政院也就接受這也是一種方式但是無論如何都不應該用這樣的方式卡住整個總預算應該讓總預算持續因為這個牽涉到現在不到差不多兩個多月的時間新的年度就開始了 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2352.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2376.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所有的縣市政府所有的重大的建設新興的建設都在等待這樣的預算我認為朝野政黨都不應該再持續拖下去了我認為只要馬上開始立法院的效率還是可以完成的還是可以在時間內完成這樣我們對人民的托付就會有所交代行政院就能夠在下個年度好好的推動現在整道施政報告當中所跟大院所報告的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2377.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2403.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
所以院長如果照你的的話就是以這一次的方式剛剛你提到這樣的方式來做處理嘛齁在追認後面的程序這樣處理那這個如果不可行的話那大概釋憲就是你的下一步可能的路我非常不願意阿真的我非常不願意不是個好的辦法不斷地必須提出釋憲不斷地提出釋憲不是個好的方法但是當行政立法陷入僵局陷入到對憲法的一個紛爭的時候那看來憲法法庭可能是最後適合的仲裁者沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2403.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2406.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
沒有一個執政團隊希望能夠用政治上的不穩定 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2432.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2456.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
來造成人民的困擾所以倒閣是憲法上面的規定但是是非常非常萬萬不得已的手段所以我昨天看到有些在野黨不斷的嗆聲這些的我認為這個都不是都是很不恰當的就是說你用這樣的方式無意以解決問題嘛憲政有憲政僵局的政治解決方案但是他不是最佳的方案我說總有一種方法可以行得通那我們要找哪一種方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2456.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2478.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
大家是要找那種方法而不是找其中最不可能的方法互相來指責那就不對了全台灣人民都在看我們也希望各政黨大家能夠發出智慧用最好的高度來解決這樣如果持續讓僵局下去而只是讓台灣國會台灣的政治陷入混亂的話我相信全民都在看大家都不會接受的沒錯我們也會很愧對來自 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2480.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2495.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
在看我們在這裡對話的所有的國人好 先講一下我要回到那個其實有一個是大林埔前村我要先談一下這個在2016年的時候其實林全院長代表這個政府跟那時候陳局長去做道歉然後啟動到現在18年經過6個院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2497.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2509.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
二、10月19日上午10時為國是論壇時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 二、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月19日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2518.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2518.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
請院長來協助加快 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2538.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2547.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
好的,我覺得當時代總統院長在擔任院長的任內,我們也對這個事情有所接觸跟了解,那後來經過幾年之後,環評,第一階段環評,環評已經決定了,那之後, |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2554.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2578.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
現在開始我想我們可以有更多的機會時間來看看是不是照這個時程進行或是當中還有什麼問題我們積極來處理從一開始的道歉到現在已經8年了代表政府道歉8年然後從核定第一本的已經5年了所以我覺得時間相當長了那希望加快包括登記的程序鄉親們都在等希望早點做出選擇那早點的去思考整個未來我也希望這一塊這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2580.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2590.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
院長能不能指派未來有個政委來指派來盯住這樣的業務因為它涉及到除了經濟部會有其他一些相關部會的跨局處業務我也希望將來有政委能夠協助好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2591.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2593.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
高雄這幾年其實也謝謝在政府的大力支持下不管南梓、橋頭、仁武、北高雄的產業園區 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2617.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2645.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
到比較南高雄的從臨海工業區、前鎮科技產業園區包括到亞洲新灣區甚至在機場都有很多的投入很多建設這要非常感謝行政院跟交通部的支持那我要回到一個點其實這些重大建設高鐵也是其一個重要一環那我上禮拜看到柯志恩委員再次的去模糊掉這個焦點我們要再次強調從2007年就在評估當時最早評估的是從左營到高雄對有機會到屏東去 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2646.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2655.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
大台北就三個站了,板橋、台北到南港,非常好的一個效果。 但是當時的時候在2010年10月17日,毛志國當任交通部長的時候, |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2656.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2659.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我只知道現在高雄車站是一個非常大 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2684.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2708.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
而且為了就是為了現在可能為了高鐵可能延伸過去做一個事前的準備啊那如果是這樣的話這句話當時為什麼存在而且高雄所以在歷史很清楚嗎歷史都留下了很清楚的紀錄當時如果交通部長支持的話其實這個案子就會進到高雄車站但是他已經想得很清楚到高雄車站甚至屏東不具可行性當你這樣一講下去的時候這個案子等於就是死掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2709.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2709.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
院長是這樣嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2729.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2729.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
二、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2747.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2747.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
二、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2768.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2773.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
部長跟我的想法就是年底之前收集地方的意見做一個整合那麼告訴地方我們想要做什麼樣的決定地方來共同支持目前我們還在收集像前幾天都多了一票 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2797.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2814.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
再來我請教一下除了高鐵之外機場也很重要特別是高雄機場也謝謝整個新的航廈計畫但現在這個新航廈第一期的預定要到2032年我認為太久我希望縮短到2030請加快相關的期程我們來努力加速好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2814.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2842.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
另外當然航班航點的部分還是要請這個持續來增加我們這幾年看到義後在桃園在臺北的松山的部分都恢復的相當的快但是高雄作為南台灣最重要的一個國際機場甚至於新南向的一個基地我們認為這個優勢沒有被發揮出來包括甚至在新南向的航班的部分增加速度也都不如預期我們也希望院長部長持續來要求來增加這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2843.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2867.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
這個航班航點跟整個機程,好不好?這個我們來努力。再要請教一下,因為華航有新購了一些客機,那我知道這些新購客機,原先多數規劃是要放在北部的,桃園的,但我認為,我也請部長能夠回去要求,好不好?這一定要有一定比例是放在高雄,讓高雄,不然現在高雄的客機相對是小,而且這個相對是老舊的,這個對營運上面都是相對上都是更辛苦的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2868.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2888.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
我希望相對一定比例的應該要放在高雄好不好這請院長部長能夠大力來支持讓高雄的這個飛機讓高雄的好謝謝賴委員好謝謝卓院長下一位請陳廷飛委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2909.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2915.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
謝副院長我們是不是請我們行政院卓榮泰院長卓院長請備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2924.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2952.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
陳委員好 院長好 院長我想跟你討論一下就是說我們現在整個安南區因為縣市合併之後其實過去安南區是原台南市的可能比較邊陲地帶可是現在因為台南縣市合併之後我們變成是一個非常重要交通路網的連接地帶所以我們現在我們過去到現在一直在爭取的 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2952.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2982.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
包括我們臺南都會區北外環道路基本上我們從第一期在蘇院長正式到我們現場去做會刊的時候我們就已經跟蘇院長報告跟當時候的行政院院長報告就是說我們應該在尾巴也就是進行到第4期的時候雖然這個是我們內政部國土署的那我為什麼在今天我要把它串聯起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2983.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2999.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
因為雖然它是國土署可是它重要的是連接到我們的國道所以它從國道包括我們的外環道可是我們現在的問題就是在於如何銜接到平面 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3000.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3012.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
在第4期尾巴的時候怎麼收尾我從第1期就開始提醒我們中央內政部一定好好做好這個相關的規劃現在已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3015.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3015.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3042.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3070.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
我覺得中央跟地方的溝通真的有問題因為中央都站在一個本位主義像所有的一些路線外環道路線你一定要借用高灘地不能夠跟民宅太為接近可是我們的水利署一直堅持說有通水斷面大家可以去看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3071.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3098.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
我們鹽水溪的高灘地它是非常非常的大一個落墩不會影響到所謂的通水斷面可是你今天如果太靠近民宅就會引發民宅的爭議那根本整個工程就進不了動不了然後到了尾巴要收尾你又把它接近整個社區請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3101.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3130.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
如果我住在那裡三、四十年我原本就是一個寧靜的社區結果你因為外環道居然把人家接到我們的社區道路居然是要變更我們的社區道路變成破除堤防你想 有誰會接受這就在我的選區 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3132.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3160.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
從安南區這一條外環道我們爭取非常久好不容易在我們民進黨執政的時候小英政府的時候我們看到的曙光大家很期待可是當你從永康要接進來的時候那邊因為民宅比較少大家意見不多當時候我就一直提醒當我們在爭取重大建設的時候因為我們在地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3162.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3181.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
我們很清楚問題會出在哪裡我們就已經跟包括內政部、行政院相關單位提醒再提醒結果現在還是面臨同樣的問題所以 院長因為今天是交通部 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3183.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3201.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
但是這一部分會有所謂牽扯性所以拜託院長指示一下我們是不是有一個平台請各部會請市政府研究對地方最有利的辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3202.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3231.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
不要一意孤行一意孤行之後你功成動不了又造成民怨這不是兩敗俱傷嗎所以這個部分再麻煩院長這是屬於我們北外環道我們爭取很辛苦捏我們要請出這條經費是很辛苦的結果大家有了經費之後拜託說先做未雨綢繆大家都不做到了最後現在卡在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3232.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3252.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
很可惜再來就是我們的國道吧唯一可能是全世界啦不要說全國啦全世界唯一條啦國道有紅綠燈的啦我們也是爭取很久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3253.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3281.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
也謝謝民進黨政府給了地方一個大改變所以這一條國道吧唯一一個紅綠燈這樣的一個奇蹟這樣的一個跡象已經要改變了所以在111年我們真的爭取很久從我上任之後我當民意代表今年17年從我第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3282.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3303.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
也擔任立委開始我們就一直在爭取這一條可是沒有辦法有正面回應還好民進黨政府上任之後聽到我們的聲音在111年5月20號行政院合定可行性評估報告高工局在111年8月展開綜合規劃作業然後在112年10月20號行政院合定建設計畫而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3311.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3325.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
在這個總建設經費總共是29.76億可是這是沒有包含聯絡到跟撤撤到我們這一次也有把聯絡到跟撤撤到再加進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3326.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3348.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
因為你沒有聯絡道跟車車道,一樣造成地方的問題,所以我們當時也在繼續爭取聯絡道跟車車道,所以在整個所有的再加上閘道的配合款,再加上我們主線道要維持雙向式車道,並且增設西出跟東路的閘道還有輔助車道, |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3350.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3376.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
還有要提供我們南133線進出國道8的功能所以這個整個預算都大為增加還好我們中央補助當然地方也有配合我們預計是在114年初要發包施工我們看到了我們看到現在在做一些細部的 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3378.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3397.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
所以我們要拜託 這不能拖 這絕對不能拖 因為我們南科的發展幾乎每天到開始上下班的時候 這個地方就是塞車路段 我每天幾乎都要經過 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3399.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3425.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
我們每天看到他塞車的時間是越來越長越來越長而且越來越提早因為大家怕塞車所以提早結果塞車的時間是越提早塞車的時間是越長表示這個不做已經不行了所以拜託現在預計114年初發包施工我們希望要趕快 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3426.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3433.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
所以我今天所講的都是現在非常重要牽扯到所有外環系統、交通網絡 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3435.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3459.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
我們扮演的角色越來越重要所以這個部分我們請部長這個部分一定要盯緊腳步這個我會盯緊我那天其實到現場去會刊的時候您的妹妹也在現場那我們也有請高工局所有的進度都要抓緊不要去延後因為我自己在走那一段的時候也看到紅綠燈的過程確實有造成一些塞車車子蠻多的這個部分確實要趕快改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3460.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3484.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
我覺得要爭取一個重大功成絕對不會是天上掉下來的禮物我們努力了很久一路來到現在努力很久終於現在看到了所有的一個重要的成果績效這個成果績效還沒開始只有看到一個規模 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3486.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3511.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
所以拜託在114年初一定要順利完成發包施工而且要盯緊所有的進度重點交違計畫我們的交違很重要因為這時間非常的長範圍非常的廣所以交違計畫所以在另外就是我們台61線 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3514.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3543.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
臺61線其實臺61線是接我們曾文溪橋一直到臺86臺86然後要再接我們南延到高雄這一條我們的一個快速道路的部分就是讓我們的臺61線西濱快速道路是一個可以往我們86還有往高雄來延伸這非常重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3544.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3572.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
所以我今天講的都整個外環道而且曾文熙橋是當時候就在這個地方2016年第一次林全院長在接受施政報告質詢我的質詢的時候我所提出來然後林全院長在這裡正式允諾而且開始啟動所有的相關環評環差因為我們這裡會接近整個生態 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3574.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3592.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
所以我們的環評環招做得特別的仔細不能影響生態的發展所以現在都完成了所以我們才會有曾文熙橋現在已經在動工了好我們動工之後就要進入到第二階段就是曾文熙橋怎麼連接到台86 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3593.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3610.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
然後再往高雄延伸這才是一個重要的外環脈絡所以我們在講的是現在可以做的不是遙遙無期的所以在現階段我們目前我看到一個資料我非常驚訝 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3613.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3638.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
我們的可行性評估報告公路局正義交通部113年10月18日的意見在修正當中主要的意見是說加計廣泛性經濟效益而且它的整個後裔本比只有1.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3641.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3645.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
他用這樣的說法,我怕到要死了。 那個標示不要做嗎?你的後裔本筆,緊,他用緊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3651.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3680.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
你知道文字 大家對於這個文字都很擔心他們裡面還會再做修正 這個委員不用太擔心這個部分我們會往前推進但現在比較大的問題其實是要跟地方就路廊的部分來取得共識這個部分是比較關鍵 也比較爭議的部分但其他的部分我覺得爭議性不大沒有 現在就是我們第一個階段是你交通部你們在公路局的整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3681.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3704.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
可行性評估你們要先確認,如果說可行性評估都在那邊空中在飛的,你叫我們地方要怎麼能夠心安?明年1月可行性評估大概在部的部分大概就能完成,公路局就能完成,以那個完成的版本去跟地方來談路廊的問題,我們來解決路廊的問題。部長你說的,明年1月這個可行性評估就會確認, |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3705.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3707.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
你這些文字對我們地方來講太可怕了 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3725.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3749.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
明年1月公路局就會送出來,然後跟地方來訪問路廊。 交通部這邊就要確認,這一條是一定要做的,你沒有確認我們地方動不了,然後因為我們對於整個廊道的部分,基本上你有四個版本,要拜託,因為這四個版本當中,有如何對於地方的發展效益最高。 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3750.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3750.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
對,沒錯。 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3770.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3787.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
所以我們希望在地方重要的階段當中我們不希望因為大家的不積極然後又看到這麼重要的一條從台61如果他可以直接接86起碼要先接台86 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3789.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3809.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
一定要先接台86它的效益才會高然後我們第二階才去延伸到高雄我覺得我們可以做二階的一個考量所以這個部分部長麻煩然後另外一個就是我們台南機場的部分台南機場現在在12月12號我們越南包機 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3810.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3811.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
好謝謝陳委員下一位我們請陳俊宇委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3856.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3875.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
好,謝謝大會主席、我們江副院長。那有請我們的卓院長。卓院長請備詢。議長午安。政委好。議長午安。辛苦了。辛苦了。這段時間為了我們綜藝省的部分,一定非常用心,帶領我們的行政團隊四處奔波。感謝你。 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3885.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3897.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
當然這個整個我們國家的政策還有我們相關的建設也都是延續性的那也特別感謝我們左院長對於我們整個這個重責大任的承攬 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3898.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3921.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
那我再次我也要謝謝我們在野黨幾位立委。 最近這段期間對於議員館的交通建設或是一些機閘聲音, 能夠進入同樣的想法,在向我們行政院來要求和拜託。 我也希望說未來在我們党運中大量的行政團隊, 能夠做回來為議員,我們來拚建設、聽官說。 拜託我們一定。 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3927.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3952.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
首先我想要請教議長就是對於宜蘭鐵路工業的部分目前我們所進行的是在六月12日通過環境的影響評估順利在9月2日我們的經費部分遞到中央的增援已經有遭遇目前進入的是綜合委員會部分我想要請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3953.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3960.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
議長就是說因為這年代的部分,我們有機會會報應來請出這個協定的結尾,我拜託議長就是針對這個部分,要盡量來幫我們倒三天。兩年來到底有發生什麼事嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3970.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3987.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
中規之後鐵道局還要送到交通部去審議,那如果其中順利的話,我想往後推的速度我們就可以掌握,那如果還有一些問題交通部應該積極去解決,交通部比較了解。我們盡量努力在兩年之內來動工。兩年內可以順利來動工? |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3990.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4010.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
委員一直在爭取一直在推動這件事那我們當然速度會加快那所以在我們部裡面的審議的程序我們加快那之後就會送給院那院那個合訂之後我們就會進入開始設計規劃的部分那兩年動工兩年內動工那我們有沒有一個期程大概什麼時候可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4010.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4023.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
掌握到他可以有一個完工的機會我們原本的計畫是希望在合定之後的10年之內要完工合定之後就是由政院合定之後我們希望趕10年之內可以趕快完成給宜蘭的鄉親 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4025.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4052.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
那我還是拜託我們部長跟院長我們如果假設在這過程裡面我們可以完善所有的相關配套那減少這個工程期間的這個交通黑暗期包括未來的這個高鐵延伸宜蘭我都希望能夠縮短期程能夠讓整個工程可以儘早來完工這個部分可能要請我們教導我們會設法來提升效率在地方上需要的盡快完成另外我們宜蘭往南 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4053.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4070.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
的一個交通路網最主要的應該就是蘇蛙公路了那在近期內看到這個風災還有地震的情況導致我們這個蘇蛙公路在崇德的那一段好像很明顯因為土石沖刷導致那個地方不管是道路或鐵路 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4071.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4085.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
經常都產生這個中斷的情況,那我們對於目前進行中的這個蘇花安跟蘇花改延伸到國道5號的部分,我想請教這個部分,部長我們目前進度到哪裡? |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4086.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4112.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
報告委員,我們蘇花庵的部分在10月15日國發會有召開會議,那也予以支持。所以之後我們公路局就會接續來辦理設計還有用地取得。我們希望在121年能夠完工,達到通車的階段。這是蘇花庵的部分。那國道5號接蘇花改的部分也剛好在今年的10月16日也得到了國發會的支持。 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4112.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4136.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
那我們也是一樣,一併跟蘇花安一樣,我們希望在民國121年能夠達到通車的階段。都是121年?對,我們都希望能夠努力在121年能夠達到通車的階段。這個我們期待啦,期待這個安全的道路盡早來完工。我相信是讓民眾通行更加安全無虞,也是我們政府這個利益良善的一個出發點。那另外就是針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4138.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4167.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
這個我們所建立的這個三小時的SOP輸運計畫,假設在這個路段又產生這個道路或是鐵路中斷的情況的時候,我們目前這個安排的情況是怎樣?這個部分跟委員報告齁,我們有分海、陸、空三個部分,那陸運的部分因為如果是蘇花的部分中斷,那我們就是往南,所以南回的這個鐵路的部分我們會加開班次,那另外再合併到高鐵的部分,高鐵也會加開班次,銜接我們南回, |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4168.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4194.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
接到西部的那一段所以高鐵跟台鐵的部分會合併來執行這個輸運的部分那另外就是針對空運的部分只要發生路廊中斷的狀況的時候我們的空運會馬上來爭取班機像上一次9月8號有一次中斷的時候那個時候天候的狀況可以我們馬上就正開班機來輸運我們比較急的旅客比較不急的我們大概就是走鐵路走南回 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4195.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4211.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
另外海運的部分其實到目前為止我們希望能夠快速的啟動但因為我們在那邊沒有所謂的固定的船班在所以都要跟那個媽祖來釣這個所謂的新台馬輪那釣新台馬輪過來大概也要一天到兩天的時間這個時間會稍微晚一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4213.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4240.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
所以目前我們也有在討論說有沒有要建立一個旅遊型態的平日就有的這個藍色公路的這個建制,如果有的話未來在海運的部分可以馬上接上來,那個輸運的速度會再更快一些,以上跟委員報告。好,謝謝,謝謝部長。我接續要問的就是藍色公路,那在1975年的時候,曾經我們有這個花蓮輪,往返這個基隆到花蓮, |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4241.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4269.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
那當時這一條路線也是非常的夯也造成許多這個民眾他可能有一種度假的形式的這種搭乘的心態那他當時他是船運比較慢他如果從花蓮開到基隆可能是7.5個小時也就是晚上開船之後民眾就上船就開始睡覺然後到基隆可能就是早上就可以去上班或去旅遊那當然現在的船隻的這個運輸的 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4270.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4287.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
速度應該也都提升了,那在之前也有這個利納倫的加入,那因為這個蘇花改完工之後,通車那減少這個通車的時間,那也降低這個相關的通行的安全之後,這利納倫就這個黯然的收場了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4292.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4319.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
現在就看起來假設我們現在蘇花改跟蘇花安工程還沒有完成之前剛剛誠如部長您所說的我們也有在規劃看能不能再增加一條這個藍色公路我希望說可不可以讓它變成是常態性可是這個有兩個原因兩個這個部分需要我們這個中央部會要去協助的就是有沒有辦法再縮短 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4319.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4330.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
行運的時間這個可能就是要選擇這個船隻他可能運輸的時間會比較快一點這是第一點減少運輸時間第二就是可能要降低這個票價的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4332.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4352.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
我希望說這個部分看能不能交通部去研議看看有機會的話把藍色公路再重新建置起來增加誘因讓民眾可以這個選擇搭乘海運的部分有沒有辦法報告委員我們這個航港局我有交代他們在9月18號有召開了藍色公路的這個可行性的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4353.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4353.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
蘇澳 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4382.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4394.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
蘇澳港的新建旅運中心也順利在6月30起用了那未來我們也希望說這一條藍色公路建置之後不管是我們國內的跳島旅遊還是我們現在目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4395.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4400.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
我相信這個藍色公路也可以相對的帶動宜蘭的相關的這個產業跟觀光的發展,所以請我們交通部這邊更加的積極的來辦理。另外就是我們這個宜蘭縣,宜蘭縣物產豐富。 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4421.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4445.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
這個自然的風景美不勝收這我相信在我們全台灣旅遊的這個廊帶上宜蘭縣應該是排名在前三名那我想我們有沒有機會可以來爭取宜蘭縣單獨申請這個國家級的風景區管理處全面來規劃推展宜蘭的這個觀光院長這個有沒有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4448.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4471.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
關光的事情當然全國各地好的地點還是要經過評估現在交通部夜館裡面已經有很多的風景區是不是要增設一套的評鑑的標準跟選擇的標準我們請交通部來跟委員商量一下怎麼來進行這部分可能就請 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4472.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4494.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
這部長我們會後再討論這個好了我希望說能夠在宜蘭縣單獨來成立一個風景區管理處的話我相信這個量人才能夠支應宜蘭縣相關的觀光需求現階段我想請教就是東北角風景區管理處那因為他所這個轄管的範圍太大了 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4498.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4507.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
他北起是我們新北的瑞芳南到宜蘭縣的南方澳的內埤海灣總面積是達到17,130公頃海岸線的長度是102.5公里所以他整個範圍這麼的寬資源有限 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4521.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4547.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
我是覺得說他在挹注在宜蘭的部分可能沒辦法支應讓整個宜蘭縣的需求都能夠滿足所以才會要求說看能不能單獨來申請那現在我們地方就是形成一個這個現階段的要求就是希望我們能夠南沿到這個宜蘭縣跟花蓮的這個交界口和平溪口和平溪的這個溪口 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4548.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4566.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
那部長這個部分有沒有可能?這個部分我們其實也在研議當中我們7月9號已經有委託專業的顧問公司在針對範圍擴大的部分來做檢討那我們曾經的政委也非常關心這個議題他也曾經到縣議去看那也有特別要求說我們這個難言的部分要盡量來努力來協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4567.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4592.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
協助宜蘭的觀光發展目前我們正在研究不過委員您剛剛所提到確實我們東北角的管理處的管轄範圍實在是非常的大一方面是資源的問題二方面其實處裡面的人也在跟我反映說人力不太夠這個部分我們正在努力所以我們雙方面來努力就是一方面我們正在規劃擴大範圍二方面針對人力的部分跟資源的部分我們也設法來補強 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4595.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4621.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
這部分也請我們部長幫忙另外就是因為東北角風景區管理處目前編制是58個元額我們行政院目前核定有15個元額有可能就是欲缺不補那會造成未來假設我們整個風景區管理處的轄管的範圍增大可是人員又不足的情況之下有可能在未來5年 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4623.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4650.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
會從58個人剩下40個人,那這個情況我們要怎麼因應?我們盡量來爭取緣額,這是一方面,二方面針對工作效率上有沒有什麼更可以優化或精進的部分,但是人力的緣額我們會努力來爭取。那另外我們宜蘭縣,我剛剛講我們的天然資源非常的豐富,那我們的山、海、還有野溪、還有海洋的部分, |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4652.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4672.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
伊蘭縣總共有19處的溫泉還有1處是全世界唯二、亞洲唯一的冷泉所以在伊蘭縣我們有這麼豐富的水資源可是我們沒辦法去好好的行銷在我們有時候我不曉得我們院長跟部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4673.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4685.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
出國的當下如果我們今天要去日本會不會去看行程說我們今天晚上這個行程裡面有沒有其中一個晚上可以在日本的哪一個地方可以好好的泡湯來這個休息一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4687.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4712.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
假設我們可以把這種概念加注在這個這個我們宜蘭縣推廣這個觀光的行銷上我要拜託我們交通部能不能協助來建構一個平台由我們中央的這個交通部這邊配合地方的縣政府還有這個還有原民會也要加入因為有一些野溪的這個溫泉是在這個原住民這個部落裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4713.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4740.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
那再加上地方的這些鄉鎮市公所把這個平臺架構好之後包括我們剛剛講的這些溫泉還有一些優質的這些觀光旅宿業那還有我們宜蘭縣有17處的這個休閒農業區再加上一些優質的這些這個農特產品還有美食的這個餐飲業我想這個平臺架構完成之後能夠提供給遊客 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4742.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4746.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
來到臺灣甚至要去宜蘭深度旅遊的時候有一個比較明確的選擇 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4748.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4773.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
我想這部分可不可以請交通部來協助一下好,沒有問題,我們請觀光署來跟地方政府來協調跟協商那包含那個委員剛剛所交代的園民會的部分我們找他們一起來討論還有地方的鄉鎮、市公所等等的大家來討論一下看這個平台怎麼建構那只要對觀光有利的我相信觀光署都會努力來推動我們希望說未來宜蘭縣市好山好水好氣頭好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4781.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4786.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
好,謝謝陳委員。接下來我們請黃婕委員質詢。好,謝謝主席。我們請院長跟陳部長。左院長還有陳部長請備詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4811.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4831.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
黃委員好好 院長好部長好首先請教一個我們所有高雄的委員都在問的問題就是這個高鐵進市區其實現在高雄人都非常非常關心尤其其實現在談論的路線有經過我的選區而且範圍非常大我相信部長也知道是 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4832.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4857.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
那當然前面其實大家都在提說高雄到底高鐵要不要進市區這個過去或許已經經歷過一個錯誤決策了就是在2010年大家都會拿出來的這個公文也就是時任在馬政府時期的交通部長毛志國以及葉匡神次長當時簽下的這張公文這張公文簽下去對於高雄人來說就是十幾年快20年的痛 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4859.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4872.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
這個是老高雄人的痛是因為當時其實高雄車站裡面已經預留高鐵的月台了那但是並沒有啟用也沒有開始工程嘛所以當時的錯誤決策導致這十幾年來大家都在討論說欸為什麼當時沒有進到市區導致現在還要重啟這樣的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4879.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4879.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
當時的討論是以左營為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4908.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4927.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
沒錯在這個可行性評估裡面我把全部的內容都讀完了那裡面其實把所有的方案做了一次比較那當時其實有提到說是因為左營的方案就工程技術面用地拆遷面其實都相較高雄方案來的容易一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4929.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4955.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
然後還有經費啦那可是呢所以我當時就其實高雄人都說喔那原來要走左營方案可是直到今年2月開始有一些新的聲音出來我不知道說是到後面已經開始進行技術上的更細緻的評估發現說左營方案其實不可行還是怎麼樣所以到了7月其實我跟李柏宇委員有請鐵道局來跟我們說明到底現在遇到什麼困難了 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4956.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4980.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
是不是真的要變成走高雄方案了呢?結果當時鐵道局跟我們說什麼?他說沒有啊,只有左營方案,從頭到尾就是左營方案。結果7月11日跟我們講完,7月20日交通部馬上轉頭跟媒體說我們在評估高雄方案。那我當時就覺得說,欸?我是被耍了嗎?我是被鐵道局騙了嗎?還是鐵道局跟我們欺瞞了什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4984.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4991.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
這中間短短9天到底為什麼這麼如此重大的決策有這麼大的轉折可不可以請部長告訴我們到底這個中間關鍵是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4995.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5020.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
其實我所知道那個過程當中有左營方案有高雄方案其實同時還有另外兩個方案過去的討論其實有好幾個方案在討論還有小港潮州以及燕潮方案對還有燕潮方案那有幾個方案都在討論當中還沒有到最後定案那當時為什麼鐵道局說只有這個左營方案這個我不曉得那個過程但我所知道的是其實四個方案都在討論當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5022.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5025.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
這個拜託你回去瞭解好不好我跟委員報告520之後很短的時間內李前部長曾經來報告過 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5032.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5061.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
高鐵南深到這個屏東這個方案提出的是4條線我想我也知道但是這個方案當中當時比較著重在左營跟高雄這兩個方案更北更南的那個他已經不考慮了那我們那時候給交通部的做法是說你要回到去到高雄跟當地的高雄市政府當地的民意代表地方人士在做廣泛的溝通因為這個變更算是 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5061.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5062.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
臨時提案委員．完整會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5072.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5099.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
好 謝謝院長的補充說明喔 喔 院長比部長還了解 請部長要回去加油了 這個我就是要再來詢問部長的喔 因為我這幾天都聽到說 交通部很認真的在跟地方收集意見 然後在跟地方做溝通 可是就我所知 至少我的選區 不管是市民 里長 議員 還是我本人 都沒有接到任何的溝通 請問你們是跟誰溝通 做了哪些溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5100.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5111.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
報告委員,我們跟市府有做溝通這是一方面,二方面其實我們會來舉辦三場的專家學者會議,包含地方的意見的收容的會議,我們在這個月就會來辦理,這個月就會來辦理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5114.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5140.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
當然在高雄辦,三場都會在高雄辦那當然也會邀請委員跟地方的包含民意代表也好或者是里長也好大家一起來商討一起來討論好那拜託這三場會議一定要公告讓所有的高雄市民知道因為我必須要跟部長報告這個時候其實你我走到地方每一場活動都會有人來跟我說到底高雄這個高鐵的方案要走哪一個路線怎麼走 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5141.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5141.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5163.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5164.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
我近期會請鐵道局趕快來跟委員報告這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5182.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5210.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
好謝謝部長我為什麼要在這邊特別提這件事情是因為前面我也講過這個脈絡了過去高雄其實承受非常多那在這20年來現在其實從2020年我看這個報告到現在我們高雄又有新的進展包括輕軌也完工了包括今年年底高雄車站的站體也要完工了然後這20年來台鐵地下化高雄承受的也夠多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5211.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5236.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
那如果我們在這個時候要進到市區是不是應該要跟大家做妥善的溝通包括說其實在這個可行性評估報告裡面我也細讀了在高雄方案其實有非常多要去克服的困難不只是技術上因為就我所知現在除了只有預留月台然後其實它有橫渡線的問題因為寬度不夠你可能要拉到戰後 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5237.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5265.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
那這是一個,然後包括裡面要拆遷的戶數,光是2020年要拆遷的戶數,目前就已經是69戶,那個是資料上的,現在是不是有新增,不知道。明蛙的範圍多廣,跟當時評估的報告比起來是如何,這個都要去細算,包括我們現在新站體完成了,現在有兩大棟,就在高雄車站,請部長一定要來看一下,到時候如果明蛙的範圍影響到這兩棟,是不是還要拆掉在 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5266.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5266.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
二、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5284.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5302.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
目前已經挖過的那個路段現在成為綠園道非常的漂亮我們也會要求說對綠園道的影響要縮到最小然後對交通的影響我們也希望能夠做半半施工的方式就是說影響一半不要整個把人家堵住這個部分我們會去處理再來因為淺頓工坊我們有討論過 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5303.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5303.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
請委員放心 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5320.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5345.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
謝謝部長說明因為這些務必要讓所有的市民放心因為我必須要說啦一個很大的前提高雄市民非常期待中央給予重大建設在高雄一定都是正向看待因為高雄人過去委屈很久所以現在如果高鐵願意進到市區或願意在高雄多設一站我相信沒有高雄人會反對但是中間包括說這個工期可行性評估報告裡面寫14年 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5347.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5356.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
14年喔高雄過去鐵路地下化已經20年那如果你現在又新增14年是不是又讓高雄人現在馬上 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5357.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5383.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
不知道要心情該是如何,非常的複雜,所以如果能包括剛剛說的,民挖範圍縮到最小,拆遷戶數縮到最小,然後包括用最大量的潛盾,然後可以讓民眾可以接受說在半漫施工的情況下,交通黑暗期非常短,即便接下來可能供期14年,我不知道,但是絕對不會影響到市民的生活,這個是不是部長可以在這邊承諾? |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5383.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5398.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
是 這個部分我們會盡量來努力影響最小的範圍之內來施工那過去我知道大家認為的那個黑暗期齁過去是那個鐵道地下化的整個過程那確實是整段都是民挖這是第一點第二點除了民挖之外因為他的鐵軌還在運行 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5400.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5417.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
好所以影響的範圍其實相對是大的那目前已經沒有鐵軌在運行了那我們再加上大量的潛墩的這個工法我相信這個影響會降到最小那我們會如果決定是高雄方案的話我們一定會跟高雄市民來承諾我們跟市政府這邊好好的配合影響大家生活最小的範圍之內來施工 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5419.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5444.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
好,謝謝部長的承諾,這個承諾非常重要,因為這個是高雄的百年大計,而且其實拉到高雄我相信也是有一部分的高雄人會覺得說這個可以均衡高雄南北的發展,而且對於產業的活絡、附近的商圈一定都是有幫助的,大家樂見,但是以上的這一些過去的大家經歷的痛,這一些承諾一定要由部長來盡力做到最大的協助。 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5445.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5462.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
好 謝謝 非常感謝那再來最後一個部分我要來跟院長請求喔因為其實我知道交通部算是非常的用心在最近高雄有一個好消息就是美聯航有來高雄設點那這個當然是一大進展可是還不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5463.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5482.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
還不夠是因為現在高雄的航班航點只有疫情前的七成那這個我相信大家都不夠滿意啦所以在這邊我也要跟拜託請部長回去努力一下也要跟院長在這邊請託是不是有機會讓高雄的航班不只是恢復到過去的 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5484.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5509.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
百分之百的水準甚至可以再超越為什麼我說可以再超越是因為高雄是非常有市場的因為其實目前高雄的這個航班的旅運量其實基本上都有7成5以上甚至是非日本東北亞這些都到9成以上班機是非常滿而且現在的轉機市場我相信大家也都有看到那過去在高雄其實都也非常有機會來做轉機市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5511.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5538.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
所以我希望的是不要放棄這個機會我相信現在華航、長榮、可能新宇都已經很積極的要投向轉機市場高雄有這個條件好不好 這個可不可以來努力一下報告委員 航班的部分我們正在努力目前恢復大概八成多啦但是航點確實只有七成那為什麼呢 因為大量取消的是對岸的航點對岸的航點這個部分大概就有一些政治上的因素我們沒有辦法跟對岸來溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5539.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5562.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
那另外的航點的部分我們正在努力因為委員們都很關心高雄幾乎每位委員都來談過沒錯我們希望能夠在飛一些長程的包含澳洲包含美國的這些航線我們正在努力當中那包含您在講的一些大型的這個航運的公司如果可以到高雄去拓展那當然更好那另外就是高雄可能機場可以作為東南亞的一個樞紐往東南亞的部分航線一個很重要的節點對這個部分我們會來努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5566.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5587.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
好那這個就期待我們交通部的好消息因為這個如果沒有你們來全力的協助我們也很難在這個市場上面有更多的拓展所以我希望說看什麼時候可以恢復到疫情前的這樣的航班航線航點然後也拓展新的點然後讓高雄成為新的轉機市場最棒的一個節點好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5588.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5616.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
好那最後還有一點時間我也來跟院長來建議一下因為其實現在大家談淨零碳排那我知道的是現在航空業非常積極的要來做永續的燃油那我知道說現在桃園機場跟松山機場都有要來嘗試加中油的永續的燃油那是不是也我們回去把這個建議帶回去那是不是有機會把這樣的永續燃油還有相關的永續的建設 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5617.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5632.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
因為其實現在小港機場也正在有一新的工程嘛那是不是都把淨零碳排的概念帶進去我們可以走得更前面讓這個機場蓋好以及接下來使用的新的航班都可以有永續燃油以及有淨零碳排相關的設施在裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5633.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5656.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
是的,航空的用油跟一般用油不一樣,它可以從回收的油品當中去做航空的用油。 那我們現在就是為了剛剛您說的要淨零碳排,要降低所有的使用量,所以這個部分過去合作的對象以及我們現在朝這個方向自己來看有沒有新的一個方向,這個是現在整個航空事業在努力的事情。 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5657.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5680.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
是,好,對,因為我知道的是目前其實我們有邀請中遊先幫我們幾個國籍的航空先試辦看看嘛,對,那我知道說目前如果連高雄的航班也都加入有沒有這樣的困難,或者是有沒有這樣的機會,如果可以的話是不是也請部長在這邊承諾接下來我們會讓高雄也來加入這個永續的行列? |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5680.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5696.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
是在技術產量品質都OK的情況之下我想都應該多多利用是我會請民航局趕快跟中油這邊來協調我們在高雄的這個機場的部分我們也來使用這個永續的燃油這個部分如果中油可以配合那民航局一定是樂觀其成 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5697.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5700.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
接下來就是我們消防機場的新的整個工程的規劃,因為現在要納入了任性機場。 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5732.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5744.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
謝謝黃委員、謝謝卓院長。委員李坤誠之質詢已書面提出,請行政院書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報。下一位請邱志偉委員質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5759.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5786.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
謝謝主席,有請行政院卓院長、交通部陳部長。卓院長、陳部長,備詢。邱委員好。院長,我最近參加一個佛學講座,聽師父在開示的時候,人生的過程,做人做事,都會碰到一些邪魔, |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5787.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5807.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
協謀,協謀協謀是指的人,有可能是指事。 心頭裂我聽,心居正,書高說一句話。 啊你說真的講過,心居正,則協謀不入。 是不是這樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5807.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5816.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
議會辦理依照憲法來執行,永遠是站在最正確的一邊。 所以,博弈有什麼想法? |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5816.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5816.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
是,我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5817.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5817.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5841.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5867.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
那這個問一下那個南非的問題,南非當然這不是第一例,過去有奈及利亞也是叫我們的辦事處從首都遷到其他城市那這南非他更惡劣,限期在10月底要遷出這個首都普魯克利亞那外交部里長昨天表達就是說我們不遷,這是行政院立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5869.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5891.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
我們不簽,那如果他們用強制性的手段,我們有沒有什麼任何反制的這個措施呢?當然我們支持第一線外館人員在現場所做的努力。我們也支持外交部在衡量國際情勢底下所做的決定。那無論如何這一段跟剛剛委員一開始那一段是一樣的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5892.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5918.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
對方如果違反國際上的常規常理,而且不顧國際的法規,那對我們做這種強制性的,我們當然要據理力爭。 據理力爭的不是一個場館一個點而已,是一個國家的主權跟尊嚴。 所以我們一定是大力的來維護我們的尊嚴。 但是應該對方是遭受到相當大的來自對岸的壓力。 這也看得出來在外交的競爭上面, |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5920.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5948.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
我們永遠是跟對岸在做這種的競爭所以我們要對自己的外交人員有足夠的支撐力我們有沒有召見他們的南非駐台代表或者是我們也反制用他們的方式來請他們也搬離他們住宿也搬離台北市目前這個還是由外交部在跟他們洽商當中那剛剛這個黃協委員提到就是小港機場定位那我們機場大部分的航線是東南亞跟東北亞 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5950.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5973.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
東南亞它是一個轉機的一個契機啦。 東南亞很多國家沒有直飛美國的航線。 所以現在聯合航空開闢高雄到東京,我覺得它是不夠。 國際航空要帶頭,特別陳部長可以請協調三家國際航空。 是。 你在,你可以用charter或在旺季的時候,暑假期間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5974.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5998.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
你可以大概開航3個月到4個月在夏季期間,空高雄直飛北美,這部分是可行的,因為它客源絕對沒有問題,因為東南亞轉機不是到,大部分是到桃園機場,但小港機場他們也可以選擇,而且航程更近,相對的機位也比較多。 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6002.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6029.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
所以我覺得這部分是不是從這個明年的夏天開始就請國際航空先試飛搞不好這個班班課滿因為南部啊雲林以南啊你如果可以選擇的話我會選擇是消防機場因為沒有航線不夠所以我沒辦法選擇我只能去消防機場所以我覺得這個部分應該是可行的是不是擬定一個時間表 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6031.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6060.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
從明年夏季開始,旺季時間從高雄來飛北美,甚至歐洲也可以。因為高雄沒有大型的這個飛機在飛,大半都是320、321啦。所以沒有像777或者A350那種大型航空,所以它的運量永遠不足。所以我覺得疫後已經到這邊兩年時間了,應該要超越疫前的這個水平。 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6061.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6083.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
因為高雄是一個正在崛起的城市,未來台積電、王剛沒來,都在高雄設廠。高科技我們變成全世界最重要半導體的一個生產聚落,都在高雄。所以這個國際化的航班是很重要。請院長也請部長能夠多加重視。這個國際航空的部分我們來溝通。另外電價,電價對我們交通產業, |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6090.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6116.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
會有一些成本的增加目前為止大概鐵路部分沒有漲當然會有增加但是就是我們自己吸收嘛鐵路不漲那捷運的部分包括各縣市的捷運都沒有調整計畫但未來如果電價在調整的時候會不會台鐵的部分捷運的部分沒有勢必你要運用正常會不會造成說這個票價會調漲未來有沒有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6123.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6141.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
這個長期來說未來的這個電價到底到什麼程度或者是會上漲下跌這個我們大概沒有辦法評估但是有一個部分就是說針對民眾的通勤的需求我們目前是用TPAS的部分來協助民眾在通勤的需求的面向上面讓他用最低的這個成本但是達到 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6142.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6144.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
因為我提到我地方的交通建設那台39就是高鐵橋下 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6172.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6197.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
高鐵橋下道路只到台南高鐵的沙崙你也知道嗎往南就沒有了我提案了5次然後質詢了大概15次那我覺得這部分一定要做從台南要直接走高鐵橋下到高雄仁武經過市區鹿竹、岡山、阿聯 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6202.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6218.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
這部分經過多年的爭取,這部分我希望說交通部在未來在預算執行面能夠全力支持,這點很重要。所以部長你有空去看一下。其實那段我看過,從台南要到高雄的這一段其實大家比較有共識。 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6219.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6221.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
一向交通建設你沒有六七年不會有眉目 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6247.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6265.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
你要完成大概10年,比方說岡山第二交通道,我努力了10年才獲得交通部的行政院員通過50億來批建第二交通道。所以一線交通建設,你從開始發想、從開始提案到完成10年以上。 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6266.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6291.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
所以台61線我覺得這是做一個為後代子孫有一個好的一個道路品質所以不能只做到曾文溪口你要往南一直接到高雄市區到南子當然要經過我的選區到海縣你也知道喔到延安米島到珠寨一到南馬溪這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6292.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6320.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
才能顯現出濱海國道的從北到南,從北是從巴黎,你不只到中文溪口你就不蓋,這不行,這部分再請部長,你有空對這個內容再講。目前我們正在可行性研究的過程,那剛剛陳平飛委員在質詢的時候我有回答過明年的1月大概可行性研究在部的部分會有一個共識,那共識出來我們會跟這個地方政府也就是台南政府,因為目前針對這個路線的部分台南 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6321.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6343.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
施政部還有一些想法,我們下去討論完之後大概就會再往前推進。那另外我要問一下院長,運動部,當然這已經是政策了,對不對?那這個南北平衡很重要,左訓中心, |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6344.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6345.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
主席主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6368.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6390.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
未來他會在哪個地方成為他最適合的服務國人的一個地點目前還在整個規劃當中我當然認為我甚至認為找一個有操場的地方讓他去也不錯讓他能夠去運動那左運中心他本身是有這些設施的這是一個想法那因為現在運動部的從構想規劃到現在我們有經過籌備小組跟諮詢小組 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6394.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6397.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
現有的基礎,包括氣候,包括這個城市的未來性,我是覺得國融是最好的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6415.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6440.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
我們會把委員的建議清清楚楚記載下來在討論的時候會很重視另外國家體育運動博物館我也曾經質詢過在陳建仁院長的時候這部分我也爭取很久但是文化部說這個也不是他們的未來體育部也說博物館好像是文化部管的 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6441.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6453.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
所以權責不分啦,所以我是希望我沒有國家級的體育運動博物館,所以這部分我也希望說,如果運動部成立的時候,也一併成立國家體育運動博物館, |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6454.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6471.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
我們在未來討論的時候那我也希望每個部會都能夠勇於認識把自己所該有的業館的範圍能夠為國人做更好的資訊提供跟服務那如果能夠朝這樣講也是把我們國家的整個體育運動的品質水平往上拉升 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6471.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6477.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
關於高雄捷運指線東西向串聯大學城這部分可行性研究能夠盡快核定這部分時間上有拖到所以這部分也請院長能夠重視這個指線現在的高雄捷運 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6501.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6527.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
大部分是南北向,紅線是南北向,但也有橘線是東西向,那是原來的市區,但原來縣區用北高雄也需要一個東西向,東西向這個子線這個是大家全民的期待,也能夠帶動這個北高雄的發展,可以連接北高雄跟東高雄,那這個區域就是未來半導體S狼帶的核心區了, |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6530.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6559.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
所以這部分我希望中央能夠大力支持是,當時的可行性研究中央補助了1680萬那現在可行性研究市政府在9月19號已經送到了交通部那我們現在正在審議的過程那委員很關心我們就來加速這個審議的過程能夠設一個支線到鵝阿寮紫關鵝阿寮因為他線都沒有往北沒有到我選區能夠設一個支線到鵝阿寮能夠帶動地方的發展這請交通部一併考慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6560.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6585.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
另外我還有一點時間我請教這個工程會陳主委就有關於院長有關於這個因為陳主委也是兼任政委是的那有些這個協調部分以政委來發揮會比較好一點就是說有些漁港比如說晴仁碼頭淡水有漁仁碼頭那加拿大協定也有一個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6588.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6608.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
請問馬頭但是過去高雄縣時代所批鑑那現在呢因為沒有持續的投入所以他沒有觀光元素然後又全職發文不明阿公這是惡劣於港惡劣於港是高雄市政府市政府才有有限但是我覺得這個應該變成這個工程會來督導工程會來督導讓這個情人碼頭能夠活化 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6614.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6640.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
那麼好的一個海岸的遊戲區但是沒有主管機關市政府他財源有限所以我這部分我是不是可以請院長再請主委針對情人碼頭如何活化以及漁業署跟觀光部跟觀光署怎麼去協調用觀光的資源帶動漁港觀光的發展這個很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6640.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6643.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
這部分怎麼去整合觀光署跟漁業署怎麼樣去帶動漁港觀光 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6657.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6657.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
謝謝邱委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6687.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6707.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
謝謝卓院長。報告委員會,現在在議場二樓旁聽席的是新竹縣竹東鎮南華社區發展協會的好朋友,我們在此歡迎他們到立法院參換,謝謝。下一位請魯明哲委員質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6726.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6734.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
委員,好 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6756.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6765.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
好,謝謝主席。有請我們行政院主委院長和我們交通部陳部長。好,謝謝兩位。我們直接進入議題。今天其實討論的不光是我們桃園非常重要的建設,也是全國民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6784.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6800.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
我們出入國境的一個門禁會特別感謝我們的這個當時的發言人現代的部長當時追隨院長在上任一個月6月21日就完成第一個願望最想看的是T3 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6802.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6823.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
三行價整個一個相關一個進度那天我也看到特別的報導你本身有三大期許第一個你希望他的進度進度能夠控制好希望在明年度我們的北登的一個廊下可以完成2027年可以我們的主體建築相關的運作能夠順利完工 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6824.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6846.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
那除了進度之外呢,也希望說軟硬體的施工單位都能夠跟上。最後一個我覺得你比較特別啦,一般的這個官員不太會講,你說希望啊,世界看到,因為這個建築,看到我們的,不光是宏偉的工程啊,而是看到我們台灣的一個文明啊,文明的細節。我覺得這個,這個很不錯。那現在, |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6850.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6878.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
這個院長你對於這個三行下相關的一個工作如期如資的完工有沒有信心啊?謝謝委員首先他整個設計是非常施工上非常難的所以他新建好之後他應該會成為一個世界的焦點所以我才希望有那個期許那明年四、五月份吧北廊道能夠先行使用雖然他整個暫停還沒有好 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6879.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6903.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
飛機降落之後可以用北廊道來進到我們現有的航廈裡面這個是應該可以如期做我現在比較擔心的是後續啊因為在這個呃包承包的工程上面有一些人力上的欠缺那我也有請陳部長一定要緊速的去把這些事情能夠完成也請淘汰公司能夠針對問題做有效的管控 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6905.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6925.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
那部長你有沒有信心阿,2027我們整個T3完工可以啟用,你有沒有信心?是,報告委員,我們北郎廳的部分沒有問題啦,那主體行下委員也一直都很關心,所以我們也特別有跟這個民航局也好,或是淘汰公司也好,一直在研商這個施工的過程遇到什麼樣的困難,我們正在努力的克服。 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6925.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6945.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
那我目前所知對運體建設的部分他們是有信心這個沒有問題但內部的這個裝潢的裝設的部分可能難度上會比較高不過我們目前為止我們的施工的期程都還在期程上面所以沒有延後那我們還是希望在2027年的下半年能夠準時如期如質來完工 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6946.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6968.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
好,事實上淘機這個一波三折啊,它的坦克路啊,事實上從2013年,我們當時就寫覺得一、二航廈不太夠,當時就覺得我們要做第三航廈。所以這麼早,已經十幾年前的2013年的時候,就已經把總顧問啊,標出去了,由荷蘭的機場的一個顧問公司啊, |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6968.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6968.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
臨時發言委員： |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6983.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6985.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
二、二、二、二、二、二、二、二、二、二、二、二、二、二、 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7004.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7018.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
所以我覺得這點點的 包括物價上漲 又要找預算 還有在今年初 又報了一個我們行李的X光機到底合不合格 廠商好不好的等等一個爭議啦 那我講了這麼多 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7020.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7021.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
三行下能順利運作的工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7038.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7061.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
目前齁他們給我的這個回報呃我們的工程 其實有有工程的部分延延到大概0.91個%這樣而已其實不多啦齁那未來發包的部分他們也跟我講說目前看起來都還蠻順利的所以沒有提出說有什麼樣子太大的微爆彈或許委員如果你有聽到的話再給我們提示一下那我要提一個齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7063.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7082.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
有可能是會爆彈,事實上媒體記者已經報了,已經說了嘛,那到底是什麼情況?我想首先請教一下部長,因為你在1月20,抱歉抱歉,9月26號,在交通委員會那天我主持會議,特別委員問到PMS,就這個系統, |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7083.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7108.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
因為決定採用試駕電巴的一個模式遇到了一些困難我不太清楚你查的怎麼樣但是這樣的一個電巴如果沒有做好因為人家轉機航廈不能走過去航廈看起來很近沒有辦法在路上走那都是高速公路沒有辦法所以要有串接連接的巴士因為航廈是用軌道的工程已經用了18、9年蠻順暢的那我們T2、T3呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7112.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7121.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
我們決定了不用軌道了我們要突破全世界最低我們就用自家電吧我們認為技術已經成熟了那這個的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7123.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7149.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
部長你之前已經一個月啦,你承諾一個月嘛,一個月了解問題,PMS到底出了什麼問題,現在解決狀況如何?他目前是這個樣子,就是說,廠商跟廠商之間,上包商跟下包商之間有些合約上面的問題啦,那他們目前正在解決當中,那他有可能不想用那個李立這間公司,陳昱不想用李立這間公司,但這個部分他們還在合約的協商當中,那我目前還在找看裡面有什麼問題, |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7150.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7159.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
並且要協助啦,重點是還在找是不是,好,可以算嗎?好,院長,院長你有沒有聽說發生什麼問題?這個自駕電吧,PMS喔,T2,T3的這樣的一個用自駕電吧的一個系統,標也標出去了,遇到什麼問題?你有沒有聽說啦?部長我可以回報?我沒有像部長這麼了解。 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7179.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7195.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
那我跟你講遇到什麼問題因為我覺得有急迫性當部長或是說院長你們覺得我們來研究處理在找問題的時候現在問題火已經燒起來你們有什麼時間去找你如果現在不解決它是2月19號開工的 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7197.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7219.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
第一期要交報告是NTP加180天,6個月,8月底,不是現在,現在已經10月了,在9月、8月、8月底就要陸續分包商設計報告要審查,所以現在,現在你知道嗎,在系統分包商就如你說的,哎喲有生意,還在吵架中啊,那這個東西, |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7221.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7243.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
這個到底發生了什麼事呢?我跟你講,本來是軌道工程,全世界我相信,院長、部長還有我們主委,世界各國走一走,大概用軌道工程的居多,串接的居多。那現在到底發生什麼事呢?自動電發其實本來是軌道的。在108年10月,當時林佳龍部長主持一個會議, |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7245.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7269.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
那我不講後面有沒有用意啊 因為這個沒有意義 我們談一個問題齁 組織一個會議 後面在整個會議結論中 壓了一個小字 請機場公司研究一下 在T3整體十幾個標案中間 有沒有其他的 除了主體工程之外 有沒有其他部分可以減省費用啊 那就 你這樣講就好了嘛 瓜葫 如 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7270.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7271.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
臨時發言委員：完整會議臨時發言委員：完整會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7289.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7302.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
自駕巴士這個模式來取代工程。 到了去年112年的12月就決標了,今年2月開始啟動了,所以現在已經大概動了7個多月。 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7304.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7330.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
到了NTP加270天9個月之後不好意思喔所有的審查都要告一段落只剩下一個多月了所以我們現在在研究什麼呢研究我們出體工程我們院長這麼費心就算缺工的問題應該我是覺得就算2027沒有完成2028也會完成可是如果你的在管制區內管制區內他不能出來他要到T1、T2 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7331.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7334.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
陳柱惠你自己上來 因為上次我在交友會我有質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7346.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7360.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
現在簡單來說嘛就是去年年底發生了什麼事呢決定自動電巴的時候去年年底招標嘛那三個團隊三組團隊來投標參與嘛然後誰來標到這17.5億17.45億的一個標案結果絕標了還不是絕標了那各位看到圖上第一組就是得標拿到獎盃的得標的廠商啊承應 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7372.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7391.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
陳韻好加上李立一個做車體主要做車體李立是做系統做系統第二組人沒有得標碼是華電加工研院做系統第三是秦威家六合那這個把他這個標案標出去了那到底對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7394.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7423.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
我那天跟你講的現在卡了已經事實上已經要交報告了系統商還在吵架這個到底是我們當時你知道嗎選人是怎麼選的我想採購法民國87年上路到現在這麼久了是不是法規有問題是不是系統不完備還是委員上場的評鑑制度有一點問題為什麼我們常常常常選到的都是不OK的廠商我覺得很怪你研究了有沒有一個報告法我們大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7428.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7441.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
陳韻是主保長,他用的是履歷的時機,就是系統的時機。 那麼得標之後,因為他們大概相關問題談不攏,所以陳韻是想用公園院的這個系的 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7442.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7442.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7468.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7482.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
最後,假設他到今年11月,他該完成的工作如果沒有完成,那就請淘汰公司依政府採購法,該怎麼處理就怎麼處理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7482.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7499.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
好部長,一年了解將近一個月,承運加上履歷一個做車一個做系統,因為光有車沒有辦法自駕,因為靈魂在這裡,靈魂哪裡該停,哪裡該開門,哪裡該怎麼樣,其實系統真的是一個靈魂,我們在軌道工程已經吃過很多虧了, |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7501.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7501.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7522.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7524.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
我記得早期聽到很多採購法的故事就是這樣玩的兄弟你也弄一標 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7550.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7566.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
老哥你去弄一標我們三個一起去標誰標到大家一起玩玩來玩去換來換去都可以全兄弟一起賺採購法訂完之後就是要杜絕這個的你這個某種程度不同組合 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7567.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7583.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
我的評鑑委員想一想,一家用日本的列車,假設喔,一家用韓國的,我們起經選擇,我們決定,假設要用日本的,請問你,你開工了,哎呦,抱歉啊,日本人換一換,換韓國的,可以這樣玩,可以這樣搞嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7584.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7598.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
你們評鑑 把評鑑當白癡吧評鑑了 最優 次優 如果這制度是有用的話 你不能這樣搞啊所以 陳昀跟李立 現在也沒有同意嘛 他們還是一個團隊嘛我跟你講 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7600.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7617.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
這個院長其實真的你這邊要注意一下因為各個部會都有這樣的一個情況那天我在交友會特別在講說奇怪了為什麼很多公共工程啊都有很多的渣男廠商啊就其實做不好但他說得很好你知道嗎說得很好然後這個也騙到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7618.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7620.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間。 三、10月18日下午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7642.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7661.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
針對這個標案的簡報,報告人類是誰﹖是陳韻的總經理﹖跟系統李立的李家盧這個執行長﹖也就是說我覺得合理啊,因為你光報告車體要怎麼做,不會跑沒有用啊,系統廠商,所以不是我們誰講哎呀那個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7663.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7688.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
裝螺絲令的分包商啊給他換一下沒有關係啊這系統廠商還上去打分數得標可能就他的一個原因但是我一個問題是說他的簡報第9月第9月那我就履願能力啊就是你為什麼要選我們陳韻、李立拍謝我告訴你我打遍江湖無敵手我做過台鐵的列控4.0而且感覺就是飽受好評 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7689.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7692.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
改善了臺鐵的這個行車安全多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7692.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7698.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
那餘裕簡報就是這樣的。 再來第二個第11月為什麼要選我李立? |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7698.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7709.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
因為我系統我學很多我在自駕車臺南的沙崙南科我們自駕載客營運覺得這都是我要加分的項目。 我這個要問院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7714.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7733.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
院長,列控4.0用在台鐵,臺南沙崙南科的自駕,你不會沒有聽過吧?被細節不用啊,做得好不好?還是現在有沒有開始營運啊?在你印象中啊?現在有沒有營運啊?應該是還沒有正式的,應該是試驗性的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7742.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7759.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
現在列共4.0在今年的4月台鐵那個部分台鐵是說他們已經驗收合格了對阿 你知道他在做什麼就是我要做的那在這個一個小塊做一個實驗做個實驗 啊實驗成功了他弄到台鐵 台鐵PASS你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7761.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7778.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
臺灣董事長怎麼說,他說對阿這個研究阿,但是CP值太貴了,所以他中間會撿幾項零件來繼續研究,就表示這個system,這個系統沒有被全部拿走了,他要拿這個系統去做下一個,你不是嚇死人嗎?簡單來說阿, |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7781.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7809.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
這都是現在的官員嘛齁,林信德主委在今年的4月,五個月前特別說了,行控4.0啊,其實剛完成POC啦,就是concept,還沒有進入POS跟POP啦,那還距離非常非常遠。可是你知道嗎,一個新產品或者一個新計畫,你一定要經過至少前兩個,前兩個,你拿去在外面印在名片上,我覺得那還算啦,就表示真的有點成果嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7810.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7828.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
那我覺得他講啊目前對於安全提升還沒有實質的效果因為根本沒有進一步的實驗照這樣現在看進一步實驗可能也不會找他嘛那臺南沙崙他作為作為這個機場PMS的優質旅業的條件我的天哪你知道這個評價是怎麼樣呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7830.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7859.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
他自駕因為在練習的時候沙河實驗啊在那邊的實驗都要一個人坐在那裡不敢讓他真正自駕那叫實驗一個人看著但是不准他動小手不准動腳也不要亂踩看這個車可不可以自己走結果啊他不敢小手亂帶小腳亂踢啊煞車油門啊人啊人為介入1288次啊那是不是自駕啊人為哎呦歪了轉一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7860.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7877.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
太快了 踩一下 這叫做全自駕嗎 天差地 所以委員 經濟部喔 實際成果不如預期 可是很糟糕齁 你知道嗎 他到政府標案裡面 因為履歷只是其一啦 拿著這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7880.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7891.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
政府也給他一個五千多萬一個七千多萬其實他用了他一包錢沒自己花拿出去變成他的履歷我覺得這個院長你覺得這個東西你未來要怎麼樣去把關啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7893.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7896.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
院長你聽到這樣的到目前為止後面還沒出來弄好你幹嘛做你會不會擔心 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7920.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7938.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
這樣得就是你趕快去做現在在吵架還在實驗你知道嗎當時講說要變過來每個學者講說技術成熟好像技術非常非常成熟結果得標之後是摸著石頭過河下一步水多生不知道趕快來救明天要開會了系統怎麼寫 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7941.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7963.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
這亂搞你敢不敢做,但是我跟你講,我們敢不敢做不重要,但是以他估的人次,以機場公司估多少人會做,他說初期一年大概6到700萬,如果成熟之後大概1000多萬個旅客在裡面,所以我們不能把旅客當白老鼠,那這個如果再這樣搞下去,我覺得這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7964.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7991.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
部長跟主委你們要認真幫院長介入因為院長話已經壓在這邊我們這整套出來要變成全世界看到我們文明的細節文明的細節而不是看到我們這麼粗心發生了這什麼回事那再來所以剛剛已經講了那李立跟公園院他兩個是什麼身份在一個標案裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7993.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8013.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
不能你凶我弟喔!你我的計劃在同一標案、同樣的條件、時間、同樣的委員做出了成績。你不知道哪裡比較差一點,但是抱歉,你就是第二名的系統廠商。我覺得丁玲她講得比較好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8013.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8042.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
那現在呢他們兩個是同案按照採購法不同的團隊投標的廠商如果可以這樣換來換去最後你回答我可以這樣的話標完隨便換我覺得你簡報你比較好來弄完了可以換來換去可以這樣搞來搞去的話我跟你講以後在地方政府什麼事情啊那就不得了因為你選我弟啊大家一起來嘛後面搞不好你得標我也來做我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8043.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8069.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
主委是要非常慎重雖然採購法適應記者第36條有規定可是你要換包商換其他的分包商當然你要優於或者訓明理由可是你要換一起跟你標的主辦機關同意就是淘氣公司要同意那目前所謂更換承包商只是承運公司對外的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8070.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8098.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
對待索爾裔建築媒體但是實際上並沒有做這樣的一個動作所以最終淘氣公司會做最後的決定目前淘氣公司還沒有所以報紙登李立還是工研院誰是分包三答案是李立嘛李立沒有問題嘛那我就覺得奇怪了那是要有人違法嗎我們再看一下2月份 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8100.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8107.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
陳韻德標正式開工2月19日﹖發生了什麼事情﹖他的系統承包商是上面紅色的李立﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8110.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8137.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
二月3、4、5、6、7五個半月沒有找他開過一次會沒有找他的系統商 你們我們剛剛都公認喔他的系統商還是李立喔 還是李立喔 沒找他開一次會好 那找誰開會啊 別家的姑娘比較漂亮一剛開始喔 他關你什麼採購法 我覺得陳昀真的莫名其妙你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8139.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8161.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
採購法,公園院也莫名其妙,我跟你講公園院經濟部投資的喔,你提供這麼多你看看喔,2月2號提供什麼,自駕技術的介紹,也就算了。 3月10號提供什麼,我教你現控技術。 22號現控技術,29號把他的傳家寶高清地圖的定位,跟承運簡報。 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8162.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8191.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
然後6月份再跟陳韻,她不是分包商耶!她是對手的分包商耶!然後讓你看,物件追蹤、安全驗證、運算,我覺得離譜到極致。她跟,不是她的承包商、分包商,開了10次會。我跟你講,我覺得,院長,你這個,我認為是已經違法,或者已經非常接近違法了。為什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8192.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8219.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
你怎麼可以找他我還沒有改你法令上你還不是這個的分包商對公務員員來講你的know-how就是你的價值這是你的know-how你不會說我還沒有提供給他鋼筋水泥你的know-how你整個搬給他你知道搬給他做什麼嗎因為承運每個禮拜都要跟機場公司跟世西開一次會每次會議中經常要不要問到系統你的進度在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8221.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8248.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
他沒有找履歷,資料從哪來的,你猜猜看好不好,可以這樣搞嗎?know-how是有價的喔,know-how是有價錢的喔,現控你給他,是政府人民的錢喔,經濟部給你這麼多研究的錢,你研究出來了,你沒有得標,你也沒有簽約,他也不會給你錢,機場公司也沒授權你,交通部也沒叫你去,經濟部也沒叫你去,你自己去跟他開了秘密會議10次。所以, |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8252.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8258.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
到底誰實質是神域的系統分包商?部長你看一下這張圖的話你覺得是誰? |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8260.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8263.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
你會來做什麼事你會來依法做什麼對不對依法簽約完整之後這前面叫什麼作弊前面要做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8290.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8290.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8310.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8335.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
部長他就目前還沒有簽約還沒有換分包商嘛對不對那機場公司你說這個陳韻找陳韻找施夏找他也就算了機場公司我不知道機場公司到底知不知道知道6月14號他就上門要換陳包商但他6月26號說我不同意嘛所以機場公司的立場說我不同意你現在的分包商既有分包商就離地這機場的態度嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8337.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8343.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
但不能假的嘛!很假!確定喔!來看一下機場公司的態度喔!話還沒講完喔!接著這個!機場公司在9月4號9月4號很近喔!我們剛剛從2月到8月喔!9月4號上個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8355.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8381.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
分包商說明辦理情形 承認報告我們未來的分包商會在陸續 因為什麼 八月剛講 八月底 八月28號嘛 已經開始囉六個月到囉 要陸續分包商要上來 給我們簡報 提供簡報給你審查這膽子多大 機場公司 9月4號欸 它不同意了欸 結果你看 那邊排什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8382.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8405.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
我他排10月2號這個自駕操作跟10月9號車輛巡航報告分包商專業分包商設計者是誰公園院然後機場公司公務的孫副總主持會議你不會說我不知道吧你這樣報告就這樣子我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8407.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8420.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
他們知道而且他們有提醒釋法性跟要符合採購法的部分你這個寫上去對不對要是機場公司你不能這樣搞啊有一次要開會的時候你又沒有同意所以我是覺得齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8422.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8447.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
現在整個的部分幾個危機第一個因為採購法告來告去弄來弄去可能會變一個爛攤子有可能你的硬體完成之後管制區沒有交通工具可以接駁你是不是要變成開巴士還是怎樣我不清楚但現在再看已經要交卷了再一個半月是要全部我都已經審查完畢了 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8448.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8472.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
到現在都還沒有,還在那邊搞,我不知道機場公司說沒有換,但是也接受這個報告,我覺得莫名其妙。那其實最後啊,因為時間也不夠啦,現在因為一堆的問題,9月5、3號開會的時候,這個沒有完成,那個沒有完成,那最可怕的是,他應該要提供的,提供的風險管理計畫。 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8474.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8474.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
三、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8483.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8484.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8504.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8513.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
火災的問題要解決所以目前提醒用電安全消防安全消防安全我們問了就直接給你看最後了 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8519.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8520.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
目前發生什麼事呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8520.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8533.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
消防安全,桃園機場有它自己的消防大隊,算是民營的組織,不是屬於消防組的,但是有160個人,它現在對電動巴士救災的器材只有 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8535.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8559.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
三塊滅火毯,當然啦,這個東西還要做很久嘛,可是滅火毯也沒有用啦,因為那是高價的嘛,它在天上嘛,你也沒辦法上去鋪啦齁。那除了這個之外,它還有最近弄了一些擋水板,那可能在軌道上面也沒有辦法用。所以在這樣的一個準備情況之下齁,我今天是提出來相關的一些問題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8561.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8563.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
主席主席主席主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8592.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8615.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
發言會現在在議場二樓旁聽席的是雲林縣臺溪婦女會的朋友,我們在此歡迎他們到立法院參訪。發言會交通組織質詢已詢答完畢,休息10分鐘,休息之後進行社會福利及衛生環境組織質詢,現在休息。 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9245.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9251.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
發言會現在繼續開會,進行社會福利及衛生環境組織質詢。請林委員配響質詢。請院長還有邱部長備詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9283.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9303.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
林委員好左院長、邱部長我記得我上一次在院會質詢的時候有提到的這個三班一戶比我記得今年總統大選的時候提到說希望能加到1比6那我想知道現在的進度怎麼樣好謝謝委員的關心 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9309.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9337.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
三班醫護比現在目前是今年公告的醫院三班的護病比標準是經過大家的一個研議我們預計兩年後要入法當然這個中間必須要跟醫護團體跟各級的醫院代表共同來協商才能夠三方能夠取得共識所以要等到兩年之後才能正式入法 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9339.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9365.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
現在我們當然就目前一直在督促所有的醫院來不管是白班、小夜班、大夜班都能夠達到我們現在需要的訂定的護病比並同時給他獎勵。好部長那我也順便再問一下我們全台灣其實都知道現在護士短缺的問題請問現在護士短缺請問你有什麼改善方案嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9366.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9379.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
現在是這樣子,如果說我們比較一頁的時候到現在,其實我們是增加了3萬095個衛護、醫護,在大家的努力之下,委員關心我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9381.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9391.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
行政院有很多措施,比較1月我們增加了3095人,在醫院這個部分就也增加了1513人,我們預計在明年能夠增加到7500人。 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9398.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9420.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
部長其實你你也知道我也知道這是遠遠不夠滿足不了需求的而老實說為什麼我這麼專關注這個問題因為我們現在臺灣已經正式進入所謂的超高齡社會這點你知道而且你也知道說本來國發會是明年才進入進入超高齡社會但是今年就我這邊資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9421.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9438.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
加益縣、台中市、南投縣、雲林縣、基隆市跟屏東縣就已經有20%以上那邊的人口超過65歲以上所以已經變成超高齡社會的時候那現在護士的失蹤就變得比以前更嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9439.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9447.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
老實說,2026年可能全台灣正式會進入超高齡社會,而因為就變成全台灣的人口裡面有21%,有21%的全台灣,2400萬人會是65歲以上的人口。 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9454.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9455.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
我想日本比我們更早 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9480.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9502.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
日本嘛好所以日本的話其實在日本我們大家是我們是我們希望說我們未來社會國家變成一個典範可是院長老實說有一句話我們都不想提叫生不如死但是生不如死我講的不是其他的就是單單純純對於高齡化社會來講如果不能健康舒適的生活那麼長壽 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9503.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9504.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
可是在社會來講 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9519.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9541.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
所謂的扶老比也就是65歲以下去照顧65歲以上的比例2014年我們全臺灣只有16.19%也就16%左右可是在今年就已經高達將近28%短短10年之間我們到達12%的人到65歲以上而且再來2027年可能將近到33% |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9543.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9553.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
所以這個問題就跟我們講說其實這個我們常常聽說少子化是國安危機但是高齡化的社會也是個國安危機喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9554.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9555.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
部長,您說是不是? |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9576.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9590.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
對,所以年齡的兩端年輕的跟高齡化是全世界現在的一個嚴重的問題跟趨勢所以我們在年輕的我們用0到6歲國家養盡量鼓勵大家生養那麼在高齡的時候我們從 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9591.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9592.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
八字亮表 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9612.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9634.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
其實我們依據監察院的調查報告在113年111年的時候就已經有將近53萬的老人家需要家庭看護而其實登錄我們服務體系的照護人員不到10萬人我們引進了外籍看護工30多年到目前22萬人來支撐整個家庭的需求但是說真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9635.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9646.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
很多人在我們身邊的親戚朋友都有遇到巴士量表這個關卡而且請問院長你知道因為巴士量表要申請外籍康復工衍生出來哪些問題嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9647.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9669.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
八字量表他的制度存在多年他現在是為了某一些特定的功能跟用途存在現在要申請一個看護我們有多元免評的方式其實八字量表只是當中多元免評多元當中一種條件他沒有八字量表還可以有其他的這個條件可以完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9678.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9691.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
我其實不是故意打斷,因為我覺得這件事我想問,剛剛邱部長有講到日本是極高齡社會的國家,那日本有沒有巴士量表?日本有沒有採用巴士量表? |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9698.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9723.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
還是請衛福部部長還是請勞工部部長請問日本有沒有使用巴士量表日本的如果說日本已經進入極高齡社會國家的話那事實上來講他們對長照我們也知道日本的長照系統長照照護比我們台灣好那請問日本他們怎麼使用巴士量表所以說是不是除了巴士量表之外有其他的方法來去鑑定說老人家需要照護呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9725.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9747.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
報告委員,其他國家不一定有巴氏量表,我剛剛跟委員報告的是巴氏量表現在的存在是為了某一些工人,比如他要申請一些在這個健康輔具上面他必須有一個資格認定等等,而且巴氏量表的存在對整個市場它有一點點平衡的作用,但是現在不需要巴氏量表,還是可以經過多元免評的其他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9748.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9774.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
條件能夠申請到僱傭這才是重點其實我這邊為什麼特地講這個因為老實說如果讓這個扶幼這個扶老比繼續往上爬的話說真的對我們國家競爭力對我們不要講別人對我們這一輩的人只會越來越辛苦而且我們知道這樣的社會是來的所以說既然外籍看護是長照系統最重要的重要人力我會建議說把他們適合的整合進入長照系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9776.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9798.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
因為老實講如果你分成兩個互信甚至互相排擠的話那其實對於說整個我們台灣未來遇到的國安危機沒有任何的幫助甚至這樣講我直接這樣講好了去年5月從25歲到64歲沒有就業的人就有287萬人其中因為照顧65歲的家人無法工作的人超過15萬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9799.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9807.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
所以我們會有很多新的方式跟制度像剛剛說的之外我們現在也會採用多元陪伴的方式讓需要照顧需要陪伴的人他可以更有彈性更激動的去得到一些必要的協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9827.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9851.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
是老實講我們都一直在講說高齡人口越來越多我剛剛提供的數據還是如果邱部長私底下跟院長你們也知道說這是很嚴重的危機因為臺灣的平均年齡只是往上 只會往上走可是生產人生產子的人越來越少那如果說高齡人口越來越多供需早就供應不足或者是這個看護的話那請問院長您知不知時80歲以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9854.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9879.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
甚至70到79歲患有癌症二期的人免除巴氏量表即可申請外籍看護員看護功能現在多元免評裡面的條件就可以他不一定要巴氏量表他是可以申請到看護的不過很多時候他們還是就是說還是需要巴氏量表的話如果說只是單純不一定需要巴氏量表巴氏量表是剛剛說過他可能要 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9880.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9898.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
去做某一種功能跟目的去申請一些補助如果沒有這些事情他完全不需要其實院長這就是為什麼巴士量表這個案這問題上他會讓他覺得很不舒服不管是長照機構還是醫生還是各方面這個巴士量表人家又戲稱為功德量表 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9899.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9907.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
一聲不開會被罵一聲開了也被罵然後如果說一堆狀況因為巴士量保一直衍生出來對於大家都很頭痛那如果說一定會過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9912.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9939.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
老實講我們有太多我們現在法令上看到所遇到的狀況是說單純的是說他們需要巴士量表那他們一定要巴士量表他們才能過關可是因為他們的狀況不是完全符合院長你剛剛講提這個多元的這個這個多元的狀況請部長答覆一下現在用吧好是的我想剛剛院長跟部長勞動部部長都有提到我們多元免評這個部分其實也通過了非常多的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9940.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9968.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
那我們其實在醫療界也曾經討論過巴氏量表要不要取消或者是怎麼樣調整這件事情那醫界的意見還是覺得有他的價值所以來篩檢一些但是他的年齡幾歲這個可以來討論這樣子你知道部長那我們就這樣講好了因為巴氏量表你知道如果成功申請巴氏量表從開始申請到成功申請到外勞動作要多久時間嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9971.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9989.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
六個月 三個月你去申請 三個月他就安排外勞過來 六個月的時間我自己有個朋友他在六個月的時間他媽媽出現狀況之後他六個月的時間他不能申請外勞 他每天花三千塊一年花了四十五萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9990.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9995.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
我們今年大概前三季的申請人數幾乎有一半是免用巴士量表就得到申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
10016.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
10038.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
另外一半可能他本身他符合這個巴斯亮表的規定,另外一半是不用,人數大概有6萬人左右,是不用巴斯亮表。 院長,這是我擔心的地方,因為... 我們已經全面在放寬,巴斯亮表有它存在的一些功能的目的。 為什麼我特意提80歲以上,為什麼我把它降低到70歲以上,為什麼是80歲以上,因為80歲以上在健康來講,在醫院,在醫療來講,是高風險族群。 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
10045.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10046.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
刊錄工供給面的顧慮跟他的分析請部長答覆一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10064.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10065.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
有關缺工的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10095.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10101.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
我們關區工的問題老實講我們現在有這麼多勞工但是老實說我們也很多外籍勞工在落跑 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10103.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10128.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
對吧,我們有差不多幾成,我記得當初跟我講三成還是更高,外籍勞工我們找了22萬人,不少人現在是找不到的,那變成是說外籍勞工的辛苦我們也知道,所以我剛剛有特地提到說,能不能把外籍看護工,不是用這個總平均薪資差不多2萬3每日工作10個小時來去做,而是直接把它納入長勞體系,讓他們待遇可以好一點, |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10129.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10145.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
讓他們可以願意在臺灣留久一點他們願意工作比較實際一點比較實在一點我覺得這是下一步如果巴士量表我還是認為巴士量表應該考慮說因為部長也好院長也好80歲離我們很近而且隨時都會搏鬥 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10147.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10169.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
一個跌倒本來很健康的人馬上就變失智有沒有可能有我身邊看到好多這種狀況那等到說你跌倒之後再急急忙忙去找一個外勞老實說他本來就需要他本來就有資格但是如果他如果沒有用如果老實說沒有人希望被如果沒有一個年長者會希望被人家看扶著跟老人一樣沒有人會希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10169.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10170.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
好,謝謝林委員,謝謝卓院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10202.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10218.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
下一位,請黃珊珊委員質詢。謝謝主席,我請左院長還有邱部長。請左院長、邱部長備詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10229.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10247.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
黃委員好 石院長好 部長好 我想請問兩位都滿65歲了嗎 當然 已經滿了 所以院長您打過疫苗了嗎 打過 打了 今年打了 有上半年打過 上半年打過 10月1號的流感疫苗跟新冠疫苗你打了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10248.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10253.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
新冠疫苗只有56萬人。 部長,發生了什麼事?為什麼差這麼大? |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10278.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10278.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10296.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10320.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
所以第一個宣導就是10月1號我就是所以太少人是不知道還是不敢打新冠疫苗首先講流感疫苗流感疫苗基本上大家都都願意打了願意打了好了部長院長我的問題是你這600萬劑要打的話如果你現在的宣導速度我覺得有點慢是不是可以再多 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10321.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10323.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
時間暫停,我請那個時間暫停,部長請回這個直接問院長好了,院長我現在很簡單的問一下齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10350.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10377.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
部長請回部長可以請回我簡單問一下賴清德總統說要推動亞洲金融科技創新中心這是非常重要的政策那看起來我們目前為止金融科技其實有在推但大部分是民間在推可是國內的金控公司對於轉投資所謂的新創其實從我們調他們的資料除了凱基金超過100億以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10379.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10400.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
其他幾乎興趣缺缺,總金額佔它的淨值不到5%,也就是說金融創新在金融業並不是那麼受歡迎。然後現在我們看到了,很多的單位都來向院長要錢,環境部要做綠色成長基金,然後文化部已經拿到文化創意產業的將近98億, |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10403.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10425.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
智慧、健康、國發基金要給他9月6號給他相關的也大概是百億的基金。 然後綠色成長的環境部現在又要提出一個百億基金。 四個百億基金我現在在這邊幫金管會請命。 院長是不是可以有第五支箭促成國內金融科技的杜教授。 比照這四大基金。 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10428.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10447.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
黃委員,您也呆過地方政府,您也知道... 因為這是國發基金裡面可以動用的錢,所以如果可以的話,部長已經跟你現在在申請,所以院長,金融科技發展我認為也是重要的,所以環境部這筆錢要不要得到,那金融科技是不是院長也考慮一下? |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10448.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10448.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
院長﹚ |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10477.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10482.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
這是基隆的協和電廠協和電廠在8月的臺電的官網在8月的時候還告訴我們基隆人說我們3號4號會在2024年的年底要除役 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10506.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10528.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
這是今年8月都還在這樣說可是最近我們再去問他現在的經濟部說臺電說新的燃氣組大概7年後會上線協和3號4號還是要繼續運轉所以現在部長你們知道他們要除役還是不除役目前按照規劃是要除役要除役那他現在還要再運轉那現在是到底誰在說謊 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10529.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10554.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
現在其實他是在緊急備用而已備用這就是我的問題了 院長這個協和電廠他是燒重油的他燒油每發一度電他是成本就要7塊半他賣一度電只拿回3塊也就是在協和電廠燃油每發一度電就賠4.5塊他去年一整年發了24.2億的電他賠了上百億請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10559.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10560.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
我們是管制他不能超過一定的時數是 所以這個部分我是覺得啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10589.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10617.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
如果要這樣子下去重點是這一句話今年520院長上任然後我們的經濟部長非常快速的接受媒體的專訪然後說了一句世界必推動沒有替代方案世界還在環評環評的過程還在討論現在還在不見在5月份的時候我們的經濟部長就直接說沒有替代方案然後環境部長跑出來說 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10619.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10642.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
我們堅守專業、嚴守立場。彭部長我很佩服你,你說了一句話,環境部不是經濟部的環保署,所以今天要問的是院長。一個還在環評階段的過程,經濟部可以這樣子隨意的說出沒有替代方案嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10643.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10645.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
環境部做好環境保護的各種評鑑的責任。 環境部的台電它的 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10658.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10660.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
萬一環評沒有過呢?萬一環評沒有過呢?萬一環評沒有過呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10660.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10662.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
院長,沒有替代方這件事情不應該是出自於行政首長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10674.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10693.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
而是我們要如何尊重環境部的專業審查,然後去找替代方案。 任何一個州長,為了他的業務,他必須要勇敢地去執行。 執行的過程當中,環境部所有的規定他都必須要遵守。好,重點是院長遵守環境部的環評委員的專業審查吧。 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10694.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10702.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
我們從過去到現在一直對於環評的過程是很重視的。所以萬一沒有過是不是要找替代方案? |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10702.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10708.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
院長你不要告訴我你的答案也是沒有替代方案。不要說萬一沒有過如果真的沒有過那協和電廠以後就沒有辦法發電了。你會不會找替代方案?現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10712.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10742.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
目前是還沒有想到任何的替代方案,因為現在還在努力環評的過程。所以院長,我希望的是您的部分一樣尊重專業。當然。再講一次,環境部不是經濟部的環保署。對,一直都不是。是,所以我很,我希望部長能夠堅守這個專業,尤其是如果真的沒有通過,我們真的要有替代方案,好嗎?院長。好,接下來部長請回,我請邱部長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10757.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10760.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
接下來大家都知道明年我們就是超高齡社會15年後老人會占30%25年後老人會占40% |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10788.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10809.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
這是一個非常非常快速老化的社會。 現在的長照相關的經費政府撥了每年八九百億。 院長也很認真把各部份的錢全部加進來大概有九百多億。 這是一件好事但是長照的經費長期來說它有一個很嚴重的問題是不夠不穩。 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10811.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10836.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
什麼叫不夠呢現在的支出從之前長照基金還算收入大於支出可是在這兩年已經開始你可以看到從106年開辦到現在113年已經少了40幾億然後今年明年預估的我們有支出要879億收入大概只有758億其他大概都要靠政府的挹注所以長照基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10837.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10848.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
即將日不復出,也就是在高度老化的情況下長照基金可能會越來越不穩,然後不穩的原因是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10848.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10856.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
院長這是最嚴重的問題,因為它來自於不確定醫政稅,不健康的菸酒稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10857.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10883.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
還有炒房的跟景氣有關的房地和遺稅這三樣東西來自所謂的不確定政府要靠有錢人或者是很多的遺產突然一個企業家過世我們才會有突然間大筆的遺贈稅所以這個金額你可以從幾億到幾百億不一定所以他是一個不穩定的財源第二個是不健康 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10885.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10910.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
菸酒稅是一個很不健康的稅,部長對吧?你很希望很多菸酒稅嗎?以衛福部的立場是菸酒稅越少越好對不對?是,所以你看,院長可以看到我們現在的菸酒稅它其實大概已經到頂了,兩百多億,而且在減少中,表示衛福部的宣導還是有些功效。這是好事,但是這個財稅、財源不穩。 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10913.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10942.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
第三個部分是房地合一稅從這個金額您可以看到從幾十億到現在112年房地合一稅高達500多億所以你會發現我們長照的錢購其實它是來自於一個投機炒作的錢這個錢跟景氣有關而且也是要碰運氣所以院長這幾樣稅源其實都不是太穩定這是我們認為長照到今天為止大家認為說好像還可以可是未來的幾年我們非常非常的憂心 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10943.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10972.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
另外就是,我不知道部長你覺得現在我們的長照涵蓋率跟我們做得好不好?部長,你要不告訴我,你現在覺得長照做得好不好?長照我們一定全力讓他不要遺漏任何一個需要長照但是,現在剛剛前面林培祥委員所說的外籍看護的部分其實他不在長照涵蓋率裡面他是靠著外籍勞工來分擔政府長照的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10973.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10997.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
接下去的65歲以上的人口目前按照衛福部的推估將來每10個人就1.3個人是失能依照這個推估的話到去年我們將近有86萬的失能者但是有十幾萬人其實是沒有來使用所謂的長照服務也就是說剛剛部長說的有人被漏掉了中間可能有一半一大半是用了外籍看護工 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10998.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
11027.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
所以部長今天我要討論的是長照保險在去年11月的民調家庭照顧者協會他們做的民調90%的民眾是願意自己先出一點點錢將來照顧自己多一點比照全民健保全民納保的概念80%的民眾贊成用全民健保的方式來推動長照保險而且現在坊間的商業保險也非常多的長照險 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
11028.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
11028.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
報告委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
11040.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11067.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
臺灣是比日本在更短的時間內進入到高齡社會,所以日本的例子我們當然可以來當參考,但是無法完全的補充。所以我知道我們要建立一個更好的制度,所以這是德國在1995年他們人口佔比15%的時候就推動了,日本是在2000年推動,當時的老年人是17,那更重要跟我們相近的2008年的南韓,他也推動長照寫。 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11068.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11096.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
而且現在目前為止全國的我們全世界大概投入在OECD國家平均投入長照費用經費的部分應該是在GDP1%1.7%臺灣只佔0.26%也就是我們政府的挹注其實不夠所以長照保險讓人民出一點讓政府出一點讓大家為了自己的未來都出一點這個是我們希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11097.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11115.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
部長你去考察過,你的想法是什麼?是,我想我們這幾年來,我想委員非常重視社區的一個力量,過去也幫忙非常多所以我們希望長照成為我們社區政府,最後我想我時間有限,跟院長一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11117.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11130.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
這個就是長照險應該是最基礎的上面你可以去買商業保險就像醫療險一樣接下去才是家庭互助最後才是自費市場但是沒有長照險的情況下現在就叫做長照杯哥現在就叫做 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11151.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11168.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
好,謝謝黃委員。謝謝卓院長。報告委員會,現在在議場二樓旁聽喜的是高雄市橋頭區環保促進會的朋友。我們這邊歡迎他們。下一位請陳昭志委員質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11183.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11187.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
謝謝主席 有請卓院長、邱部長委員長、邱部長請備選 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11196.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11222.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
陳委員好 院長好部長好 院長質詢期間總質詢期間辛苦你們了不會的 院長當初蔡政府要開放萊豬進口的時候當時有66%的民意因為食安的疑慮他是反對的但是因為那時候有國會的優勢所以還是闖過關了所以這個部分程度可以說明民進黨想推動什麼法案大概就會去過什麼樣的法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11222.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11250.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
那所謂的社會共識大概只有在這個不想推動什麼法案的時候就會一直講沒有社會共識沒有社會共識那為什麼我要這樣說呢以代孕法案來說三次國家的民調平均有六成的民眾是贊成的兩成的不反對就是有八成的民意基礎但是近日幾位民進黨立委在委員會質詢的時候還是說沒有共識所以我這裡要請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11251.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11256.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
如果要做最近的例子來看我覺得成立運動部的共識是很高的我們一直以這個當作 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11269.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11297.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
國會跟立法院以及全社會來做合作的一個很好的典範跟例子這是一個很高的共識那至於說當初美國萊豬的問題那是因為我們有科學的根據用國際的標準也保障大家安全的前提謝謝院長萊豬我也理解院長請看下一張投影片上的話對於生殖激凌有障礙的病人我們應該以更寬大包容性來幫助他們而非只是一味要求他們放棄生育權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11298.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11300.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
請問院長,您知道這段話出自何人嗎?那你認同這段話嗎?我基本上是認同的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11325.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11348.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
院長這是賴清德立委在2020年提出的代孕人工生殖法案這個草案的提案說明謝謝你剛好也是認同的但是很遺憾5年後2007年人工生殖法僅僅包含了捐精捐卵還是排除了代孕迄今20幾年那當時的賴清德立委現在已經是賴清德總統了今年國宴520 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11350.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11374.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
我親自向他再確認我說賴總統你還支持代孕嗎他告訴我他支持代孕的態度一直都沒有改變那當時在我旁邊還有好幾位立委包括這個貴黨的許智傑立委院長行政院是否該將代孕解禁了呢還是兩位你們要繼續打臉賴立委賴總統呢是不是該解禁了報告委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11376.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11395.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
總統有告訴過我當時國務院那天你們講話的那個場景,他也認為說在事實的情況底下,臺灣社會已經朝向更開放、更進步、更多元的時代,是可以研究的。 像人工生殖跟代理孕母這兩個議題, |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11396.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11397.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
請問院長您支持衛福部的版本嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11417.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11431.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
請貴婦先說明一下我要請教院長因為您的態度很重要因為我們還沒有送到行政院所以我先報告一下現在晚上我們已經在7月13日結束議告期我們有開了大概十幾次的專家會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11432.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11456.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
那以目前來講,我們還是能把那個代理硬碼放在裡面。因為院長知道總統的態度,這是非常重要。預計11月底或12月送到行政院。為什麼我覺得院長態度很重要,院長其實多年來每次衛福部都有提出代孕的修法,但是都被行政院性平衛的委員連署反對。 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11457.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11459.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
今年3月長期擔任性評會委員的黃淑英 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11481.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11509.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
在姓名會的會期會封殺代孕這個議程,他不讓代孕進入議程討論。他近期告訴人家說代孕是寄予別人的子宮。我很想回他,你有種、有本事、有膽,你就這樣等待器官捐贈的人說,你們在寄予別人的器官。院長我要講的是,運行行政院的姓名會那也長期聘了這幾位態度偏激、心理變態的委員呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11511.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11512.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
政府所有的各類的委員會裡面如果有 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11541.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11546.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
外界民間人士參與,我們都會廣泛多元的邀請各種聲音不同的代表。 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11572.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11600.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
姓平慧當然是院內的一個委員會一個組織那所有的決議行政院有自己政策上的目標跟決定因為你上次回答我是人民在當家我已經告訴你民意如此這個是有證據可考察的然後我可以告訴你一些內幕林全在當院長的時候這個姓平慧非常的囂張一直都很囂張的他很忍耐聽了幾個小時蘇院長的時候主持了一次以後他說不用再召開了 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11601.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11618.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
賴院長主持會曾經公開講說,你們記好你們的角色,你們是質疑委員。 院長你剛剛也提出了,這些人是質疑委員,不是決策委員。 是的是憲平會在統治台灣嗎?還是您在治理台灣?是賴總統在治理台灣? |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11618.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11620.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
院長我要你拿出魄力。 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11622.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11642.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
不要讓姓平慧爬到你的頭上去國家有國家的立場姓平慧不是太像我們機關那因為您是召集人嘛您是召集人部長您是委員喔如果人工生技法案這次再進到姓平慧他們又反對了那你們要不要捍衛部長您要不要捍衛你的版本院長您要不要捍衛政府的版本你要不要捍衛 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11644.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11673.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
我一定會說明我一定會說明我們版本的他的意義以及他考量以及到妹妹聚到照顧到兒童小孩的潛力照顧到母親你不捍衛你還當什麼部長對不對新民委員如果有過去的疑問我想我們會用現在的專業跟現在的發展來回覆希望能夠取得理解那麼有新發生的問題我們共同來討論一個解決的方式人類社會行為已經很久執政者有意為為自己的政策辯護嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11674.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11676.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
我已經告訴你有幾個變態的委員在裡面阿講了那些不像話的人 不像話的話阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11705.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11727.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
委員長,為代孕做辯護,我資料都幫您準備好了。衛生署、國健署共兩次公民會議,得到非常積極正面的結論,是積極正面,不是無比於我。國健署三次全國性民調,等一下我會給你看,壓倒性的支持。另外還有一份是,這個是民國88年,衛生署研究報告,主持人是婦產科全衛,他現在還在照顧病人,叫曾啟瑞教授。 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11728.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11737.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
主題是《代理運母國際現況分析》,研究結論是這樣的,長期以來我們從宗教、倫理、女權、法律各個觀點來不斷地爭辯,但是我們經常忽略主角本身。 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11738.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11757.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
委託夫妻和代理孕母夫妻禁止不等於不會發生禁止不等於不會發生尤其代理孕母她本質並非本質為惡的行為在禁止的情況下只會使當事人在沒有保障的情況下秘密進行代理孕母行為這對當事人跟他的子女都不會更有利的我也偷跑過啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11759.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11778.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
請記得這個是衛生署的研究計畫所出的結論。好,再下一張也是,民國99年衛生署還有個研究主題,世界各國代孕升值政策討論。結論很清楚,代孕增值已久,當初開始推動代孕的不孕者經歷這麼多年以難享有代孕政策開放的果實。這講的就是我啦,陳昭芝啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11780.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11797.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
即便但是今天通過我也沒辦法用但是但是我背後站著很多根據專家評估大概有數千人苦苦等待這個法案我們繼續看本研究的結論他說我國人民結婚年齡不斷延後不育人口逐漸增加十幾年前就是發現 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11798.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11811.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
大運需求與日俱增,開放大運已成為世界潮流,希望本研究的成果有助於大運法規的及早的訂定跟施行,讓博運附近能享有現代生殖科技帶來的喜悅。 院長這是99年,現在是83年,你對餒。 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11816.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11843.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
院長反對這30多年來,論述都一樣,只稱這是剝削女性這個物化子宮。 他們一直用臆測沒有發生的事情來扼殺真實存在的不孕夫妻的一線生機。 從衛生署到衛福部都研究了各國的政策。 他們去拿印度會發生事情來累推台灣。 我請教院長,你覺得我們國家的法規會比較走歐美的方向,歐美國家方向,還是去學習印度呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11844.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11851.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
您覺得您的政策我們要學習是進步但適合我國情的我們適合印度嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11852.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11876.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
我們是適合歐美國家還是印度?看什麼法規啊?有!我們還有可以向印度學習的,我還不知道有這件事情。印度的軟體就很進步。我要告訴院長,這份報告的協同主任叫做林志傑教授。他是非常優秀的法律學者,也是貴黨的同志。我很慶幸他成為本屆的信聽會委員。希望院長好好拜讀他的研究,也希望政府用科學、用法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11878.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11904.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
來擺脫那群有被害妄想症的女人,尤其自認為是女權主義者。 邱部長,衛福部的草案已經擬了一段時間,收集了一堆意見,你也承認它跟過去的想法都一樣,可是這幾十年來醫學在進步,民情更開放,反對著同一套論述,就是在浪費虛職有需求人的生命跟青春。 那叫什麼呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11904.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11905.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
把人家死不了啦! |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11908.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11930.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
當初人工生殖立法的時候﹖反對者說待遇要跟捐精捐卵脫鉤﹖他們得逞了﹖現在子宮有病民是被凌遲了20幾年﹖好,行政院、立法院如今都要重新再修法﹖這群反對者又說待遇要跟單身跟同志脫鉤﹖又來了! |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11934.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11937.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
憑什麼子宮有病變女性就要一再被欺壓? |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11937.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11938.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
一再被拋棄? |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11938.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11943.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
捐精捐耳的問題會比代孕輕微嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11943.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11948.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
單身同志產生的問題會比代孕夫妻更輕微嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11948.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11961.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
我要重複20年前 我有感而發我留下一段很無奈的話 如果再繼續阻擋代孕的話 我說那就是政府欺負人民 健康人欺負有病的人 有子宮的人欺負沒有子宮的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11963.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11987.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
部長你也說問題在重複嘛,你願意加速這個行政程序,您說過這樣的話在委員會執行的時候,院長您支持他的做法嗎?加速行政程序?當然支持,如果社會有共識一個好的公共政策,行政程序趕快推動,對大家好當然支持。請稍等,我們剛剛已經對社會共識的有一段時間的這個討論,社會共識是有一個問號的,好,但是我已經用科學證據告訴你,社會是有共識的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11988.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
12010.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
現在有一群團體跟民進黨立委被黃淑英們洗腦,喊著要脫鉤,我必須再說,無論是代孕、單身或同志,民眾黨跟我的版本是全韓瓜的喔!全韓瓜的喔!我先說前提,如果真的要脫鉤,也是代孕優先啊!為什麼?如同高雄常跟副常科教授、蘭國中教授近日所言, |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
12010.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12026.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
但已經奮鬥20幾年來來回回太久了但議題發展得比較成熟而同性伴侶跟單身是這幾年來出現的社會議題如果擔心後案延遲前案 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12027.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12052.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
要優先的是藍教授講,不是我講的齁,也是在以病人的需求為優先,要儘速通過這個讓不孕女性可以用代孕,因為所謂的代孕就是子宮有病變嘛,那至於單身同性這是一個比較社會性的議題嘛,所以藍教授一直是說先病人的需求再來談社會,當然同步最好,他提出了這樣的論點,您接受嗎?一個醫師照顧病人那麼多的醫師。 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12053.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12068.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
我當然會尊重專業醫師的看法病人嘛病人99年你來看看病長你從政一輩子你也就任何意見的平台都可以操作但是我給你的是科學性的民調國家民調這是民國99年國建署的民調當時15年前就分別有53.5的人或60.3的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12074.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12102.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
他支持因為子宮有問題而進行待遇前面是夫妻後面是女性他們就這樣問那基本上當時就是超過了就是是多數多數支持好102年國建署非常小心謹慎又做了第二次民調結果顯示有68%的民眾他不贊成繼續完全禁止因為當時是當時是禁止的有85%的民眾贊成在有配套情況下開放待遇給有需要的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12103.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12108.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
那我們現在修法不就是在想辦法建立制度擬定配套嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12108.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12116.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
院長,當時這個政界有85%的支持,這是你國建署自己做的呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12116.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12118.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
12年前的民調現在會倒退路嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12118.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12121.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
現在的民情是更開放喔,會倒退路嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12121.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12121.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
不會嘛! |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12124.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12143.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
國建署實在太認真了,104年又做了第三次民調,這次題目跟直接問有人認為台灣應該完全禁止代孕,無論任何情況任何配套都不允許代孕但有人認為說,如果政府制定配套,允許某些人在特定條件規範下去委託代孕,請問你比較贊成哪一方? |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12144.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12173.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
結果有52%的人支持部分開放待遇,66%贊成完全開放,也就是我剛剛談的6成的人支持台灣有待遇制度,還有18%的民眾認為他沒有意見,他可以接受,他沒有意見。 院長這是一個進步的法案加上80%的民意接受度,我不知道你們在猶豫什麼。 院長進步法案加8成的民意支持,你們在猶豫什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12175.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12199.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
還有以前是人權問題嘛現在是國安務議議題阿民進黨執政後2016年當時出征20萬人阿那現在每年降1萬阿去年13萬阿今年是農年阿去年的前8個月跟今年前8個月比院長你知道還少多少人嗎農年喔還比去年少你知道少多少人嗎你知道嗎我辦公室每天貼阿少3000人對今年要守住13萬很困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12201.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12225.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
委員長你不擔心王國滅種嗎?當然擔心啊!所以我們開了好幾次人口對策會議啊!但是不怕生、想養的人就是要趕快幫助他啊!我們鼓勵你出生的時候一年四十幾萬喔!現在是十幾萬喔!好,我再強調一次,我的版本是包含代孕、單身跟所有同志,我主張全部納入。那但是為什麼以黃淑英為首這種脫鉤論?憑什麼代孕要被脫鉤?要被延後、要被處理?其實就是不準啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12227.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12227.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
有辦過公民會議嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12227.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12229.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
有辦過全國性民調嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12229.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12230.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
如果都沒有,相比之下為什麼待遇要被脫鉤? |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12230.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12230.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
為什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12245.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12270.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
如果衛福部最後的版本送出來沒有待遇,或是完整人工生殖法案,走不出行政院大門,要被姓評會再來擋住,我必須很遺憾地說,院長,那你就是讓台灣有姓評會在統治喔!你們就是打臉賴清德立委、賴清德總統喔!如果事情發生,我就在這邊跟你申請,我今天要跟你申請,我要成為姓評會委員,我有資格嗎?你認為我有資格嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12271.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12298.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
大院委員不需要成為性平衛會的委員都可以向行政院表現...沒有沒有,我要擔任性平衛委員,我有資格嗎?資格遠遠超過,但是不需要,你不需要成為性平衛...為什麼我告訴你我有資格?因為你的師父,謝長廷院長在2005年到2006年就聘我為性平衛委員我後來因為議員太滿了...你以前是國會議員,就不需要成為性平衛委員當時叫婦權會,我已經擔任過,我當然有資格但是我希望性平衛好好做事,不要找一些心理變態的人在裡面搞 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12300.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12323.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
部長現在下來我想跟你,不過我還是要先請教院長,好,我們回到醫療體系,我覺得衛福部在執壞球在打假球,為什麼這樣講呢?整個醫療體系有一些重大的問題,每個人終身都會受到醫療照顧,都會有求於醫療這個服務,但是也不能因此相悅嘛,因為醫療改革越好越進步,那我們每個人都會受惠,那從某個角度來看為什麼我會講出這麼嚴重的話,這個打假球執壞球, |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12328.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12337.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
我想請教院長,您對分級醫療了解嗎?大概有概念嗎?是,推行了很多年,但是並沒有落實。分級醫療,好,我們來看一下賴總統的態度。應該要落實大家醫的制度,也就是轉整分級醫療能夠更加的落實。 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12355.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12384.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
謝謝,我們先停,因為他那邊講了很多話,他不只講一次,分級醫療,好,然後再來看下一張圖,柏中這是你餒,柏中這是你餒,你看你現在復仇零次餒,我當然想2018年推動分級醫療,現在淪為口號,現在分級醫療大崩壞餒,為什麼大崩壞我等一下把數字給你看,你都講給我,分級醫療,賴總統也要分級醫療,那個院長,我請你看這張圖,別人不告訴你真相,我告訴你真相。 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12385.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12405.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
左邊這張圖是健保開辦1995年,醫學中心13家,區醫院48家,地區醫院有568家,這是一個非常穩健的正三角形的醫療架構,非常穩但是健保執行20幾年之後,你看長成這個樣子,醫學中心越來越多,區醫院大型區醫院越來越多,但是地區醫院縮少到 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12407.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12435.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
三百一十三家幾乎腰斬好今年的醫院這個評鑑公布了醫學中心有二十六家我來告訴院長院長二十六家醫學中心都在做軍備競賽所謂的重大醫療設備全世界都說臺灣是密度最高的地方動輒幾億幾十億的這個是非常奇怪的現象然後民眾會往這裡跑然後收費也非常高昂沒有一個國家是這樣搞的 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12437.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12463.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
我這樣說,部長你好像心裡有數,如果繼續補考的話,未來的架構變什麼,請院長看最右邊這個圖。到底最後我們的醫療架構會變成一個倒三角形還是這個散狀?總之它的底部就是萎縮了。那後遺症是什麼?受害追求的民眾不會清楚,但是意見都心知肚明。邱部長你一定知道啦,我想請教院長,院長你覺得罪魁禍首是誰呢?禍首? |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12465.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12489.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
我跟委員報告我過去在議會或立法院的時代我比較接觸最多的是基層醫療協會如果這個轉診制度的落實起來的話基層醫療也會很堅強到社區裡面的診所也會很堅強基層醫療一定是支持我們分級醫療的做法為什麼我說衛福部要首當其衝因為你是主的單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12489.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12490.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
那民眾往這邊跑 蛤 怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12513.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12541.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
現在的狀況是這樣,你擋得住嗎?要成立一個醫學中心,必須它有相當的人口,一定的條件。兩百萬人?對,兩百萬的人口以上。所以,我們只要12家就好了,現在我們26家,好嗎?院長,謝謝你也理解這個醫療網計畫的規範。院長,賴總統努力推動健康台灣,也召開過很多的研討會跟這個活動,變了60億,欸60億不是小數目,因為癌症病有推,努力好多年,好不容易拿到50億的那個今年拿到,明年拿到50億的癌症心藥基金。 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12541.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12564.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
那我目前收到健康臺灣的這個草案計畫裡面只寫的四個範疇優化醫療工作條件規劃多元人才培育導入智慧科技醫療社會責任醫療永續我想從大方向大院長簡單講您覺得這個經費怎麼分配你會集中在某一些醫院嗎就是我大概先了解您的初步想法這是大院長的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12566.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12589.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
健康臺灣是從選舉前一個大型論壇集合大家的意見之後,形成一個最後的深耕計畫,那深耕計畫當然要透過衛福部去執行下去,這幾次沒有執行,你必須透過衛福部去執行下去。 我知道現在沒有細節,因為我也收不到,所以衛福部有沒有思考過,是不是要協助我剛剛講,我先讓你看那個分級醫療已經長得很畸形了嘛, |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12589.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12613.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
那你是不是要有相當以上,譬如說一半的經費是拿來支持地區醫院、基層、甚至社區藥局有更多的資源去聘優秀的醫事人員?就是你要照顧社區醫院跟基層啊,讓它下面的底部要很穩啊,要很穩啊。委員長可以往這個方向?我報告一下,真的很感謝您關心健康台灣生產計畫。 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12614.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12631.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
這個就是仿照我們頂大計,就是說頂尖大學五年五百億的一個計畫,能夠螺製更多的人才我那個有爭議喔,你到底要在精英大學還是普遍的大學來支持?這種概念之下來引導,但是這個經會請放心,第一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12635.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12664.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
我跟那個委員一樣,我從小到大,就是到現在完全沒有改變,就是支持分級醫療,雙向轉整,加強primary health care,這是WHO的趨勢。你看我所有的論述,幾百篇論述,絕對都是想辦法要達到讓人民能夠得到一個最accessible的一個狀況。然後那個在深耕計畫裡面,即使你放心, |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12664.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12681.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
我們用盡了腦筋,它重要的是要有創新模式,希望過去的弊病,包括比如說基層醫療沒有辦法發揮戰力,我們有一個模式讓它戰力。我剛剛是請廖院長大方向,但是那個四項範疇,優化醫療更多條件,就是說會納入哪些醫事員如何優化,你是加薪還是互併比? |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12689.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12718.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
這個賴總統承諾兩年內要互併筆要入法欸互併筆我們有一個什麼樣的KPI對不對這是第一個目標一個對優化工作條件嘛規劃多這個多元人才培育台灣業績需要什麼我想院長您也可以部長一定要知道的院長你知道傳統科別內外負荷跟重症科是相對不足的五官科比較沒有壓力的五官科是很搶手的啊那你這個計畫能不能解決這個問題有要也要也要我們缺的 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12719.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12721.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
社會責任跟醫療永續,要談永續就要想好怎麼幫醫院減碳 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12739.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12757.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
有包括這個部份有包括這個部份能源管理醫療廢棄物,現在醫療廢棄物就跑出暢生宿,今天我沒有空處理你是不是已經有這個方針跟指引讓醫院有一個方向走?你很忙欸部長,很多事要做欸,這個計畫說很多事要做 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12759.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12764.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
發言委員,我們第一個就四大範疇裡面的各個計畫重點,我們最近已經草擬出來,然後它的經費分配會相當的平均,特別會折衷在 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12785.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12786.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
賴總統當時也說政府要講清楚解決什麼問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12812.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12813.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
臨時提案委員：完整會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12829.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12854.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
我們大概希望在一個日之內公布他的一個怎麼扣計劃哪個單位是可以扣計劃就開始要來接受大家的申請我們再來看醫院評鑑這是你現在的副手林次長講話2016年他講以下都是他講的話當年6千億的健保總和醫院佔了4千億許多醫院為了讓5月的評鑑成績好看 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12855.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12880.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
拿到較多的總額分配﹚下令醫護人員在評鑑期間要禁止休息、休假、禁休﹚他還說﹚如果評鑑真的在改善醫療品質﹚那請問篩報的急診﹚過來的醫護是在哪個平行世界﹚負責評鑑的醫策會﹚許多成員都是醫院的總董監事﹚醫院評鑑每期平時改善醫療品質﹚實則是藉由玩高裝檢﹚高設備﹚高裝檢設備﹚瓜分上千億的健保大餅﹚林靜怡還要求當時的衛福部長蔣秉煌﹚ |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12882.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12891.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
立刻停止該年的評鑑。 院長,我要問的是院長。 院長你講,你講得夠不道理?他講得有沒有道理?那是你的政務官。 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12892.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12920.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
如果他是在立法委員任內看到這些問題表示他是有仔細在觀察也設身有這樣的體驗那他現在身為政務人員他應該有責任跟能力去面對這個問題解決這個問題不是換位置換腦袋啊不是換位置換腦袋只是去做啊右邊這張圖是護理師們穿的粉裝護理師們右邊寫這個標題寫平建前的暴風雨凝靜我們可以帶我們護理師在平建前要很忙很多作業要做到底平建有沒有某個程度的造假 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12921.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12928.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
我們認為議界心知肚明請問邱部長你覺得評鑑能夠改善醫療品質嗎?就這句話你覺得評鑑可以改善醫療品質嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12930.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12958.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
我覺得評審一定會改善醫療品質跟安全好那就暫停那就請你跟這個林氏好好溝通他認為塞鮑爾急診過了的醫護是在哪個世界啊如果評審真的可以改善醫療品質這也不過他自己講的啊但是評審有他一定的限制他就是打各個他的項目也是全國的相關的專家想領濟出來的項目評審委員考察委員也都是我們獨高望重的前輩已經很努力了 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12961.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12986.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
三立新聞也講了,反正醫師在這評鑑做很多不實的紀錄等等等,批院學生是陋習,所以我現在要求一個很重要,我要求醫策會在每回醫院評鑑的時候不能只公布分數跟榜單,我要求一份總評報告,這個總評報告對於整體醫療的分析跟影響,包括各級醫院發展的變化,民眾就醫行為的可能改變以及可能財務衝擊。 院長您覺得我這個要求合理嗎?醫院評鑑花那麼多資源,不能只有榜單跟名單。 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12987.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12987.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
最後我們時間到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13023.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13023.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
好,謝謝陳委員好,謝謝卓院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13033.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13048.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
發言會上午質詢到此為止,本次會議未有委員提出臨時提案,就不進行臨時提案之處理。 下午2時30分繼續開會,進行社會福利及衛生環境組織質詢,現在休息。 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
21591.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
21606.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
現在我們繼續開會我們在議場二樓旁聽的是新北市素仁家商的同學歡迎大家歡迎我們現在進行社會福利及衛生環境組織質詢我們首先請林益君委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
21643.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
21643.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
林委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
21665.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
21684.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
院長你親自身兼我們花蓮的0403地震的專案小組的召集人請問目前投入花蓮0403震災復原重建方案的重建經費大約是285.5億那是來自哪裡呢?我們當時從震災基金會以及其他的預算上面來挪資出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
21685.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
21707.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
是從公務預算和特種基金和第二預備金對不對?好那再請問院長對於非屬公務預算項目可以支應的部分是由哪一個單位負責支應呢?非屬公務預算是不是由政災基金會負責?如果是政災基金會有一筆預算是在做一些補助救濟等等是有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
21710.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
21737.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
我再請教部長,部長,這張基金會是行政院在民國90年動用第二預備金成立的對吧?它是不是屬於衛福部轄下的公社財團法人,是嗎?是的,是。這張基金會的到底是誰可以管呢?誰可以監督和了解這個單位的上緩經費的使用情況呢?是不是衛福部? |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
21738.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
21747.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
當然衛福部要去去那個省省的來使用嘛那應該行政院在督導 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
21748.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
21769.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
那為什麼我們從04、03地震開始我們就不斷的在發文為了政災基金會的權責還有請相關部會提供一些資料但是大家都回文互踢皮球然後大家都說跟他們沒有關係都不是他們主管的我覺得這真的是太離譜了啦所以我想請教衛福部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
21769.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
21798.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
政災基金會長期是以政績災民的主要的業務在莫拉克的風災還有高雄的美濃的地震還有八仙的城暴這些重大災害中都曾經協助災民所以今年我們主要的專案執行是針對0403的花蓮政災募款專案受到行政院的協調辦理專案的募款將全數是用在災民的災害援助還有緊急醫療收容安置 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
21799.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
21826.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
復原重建的四大項目是不是這樣?是的但是我們花蓮災民都在反映災情到現在已經半年了但是他們對所有相關的資訊都還是一無所知包括經費要到哪裡申請還有申請的資訊完全不清楚常常到處問到處陳情才知道還有重點是從花蓮發生04、03開始到現在已經半年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
21826.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
21848.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
結果正在基金會的官方的網站上面要查詢這整個募款專案的執行的捐款的使用的整個流向竟然什麼資訊都查不到甚至想要查這個基金會還有其他年度和重大的災害的募款執行的賬目細節裡面的資訊也不是非常的清楚也是不是很透明這樣是不是有點太離譜了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
21850.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
21861.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
而且衛福部身為政災基金會的主管機關那是不是太不負責任了難道是因為現在董事長是前部長是政務委員所以不敢管嗎是這個樣子嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
21862.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
21879.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
委員我覺得我建議正在基金會後面用這幾個字來形容對在裡面工作的人實在是不當不宜了他們都很辛苦在做如果當中有一些或少數或多少個案目前在 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
21880.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
21892.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
整個政宅基金會或是整個我們這個重建辦公室執行過程當中有效率不及的地方請委員告訴我們,我們一一的來處理。 因為政宅基金會也是針對災害嘛。 但是政宅基金會這樣的對他們是我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
21894.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
21894.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
韓國瑜 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
21912.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
21924.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
而且針對這次04、03的地震重現的捐款,政災基金會到底有哪些補助的計畫、項目還有申請的程序,是不是全部要全部的透明的公開呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
21925.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
21925.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
對,報告委員,0403的花蓮鎮災 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
21948.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
21968.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
正在收到的這個捐款募款大概有16億那目前這個將全數用在災民的救援那緊急醫療等等上面那不是誰說了算一定有一套的標準我們從各項的補助傷亡的補助等等都有一定的標準不是誰說了算這是一個制度上的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
21968.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
21985.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
對,但是我們想要了解這個細節嘛,對不對?因為你們都還是不是讓很清楚的公開透明的讓大家知道人民的捐款用在什麼地方而且還有一點就是花蓮人需要救災需要救命政府不是說沒錢,不然就是經費不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
21986.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
22001.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
本席有發現,我們知道政災就像剛才院長說的是非常的辛苦沒錯,但是為什麼一個單純的負責政災救災的基金會,主管的薪水可以爽領高薪,年薪超過幾百萬,而且是執行長他的月薪就超過10萬元了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
22003.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
22025.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
這樣就連現在進口的超市雞蛋﹐發生弊案的續產會﹐他們一級的單位主管平均月薪﹐也沒有超過10萬元以上啊﹐這對災民是多麼諷刺啊﹐那院長部長﹐你們對震災基金會竟然這樣大剌剌的﹐用政府﹐用大家捐款的上款﹐用災民的救命錢﹐用災難前在爽領高薪﹐這樣會公平嗎﹐這樣合理嗎﹐這樣的社會觀感會好嗎﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
22030.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
22056.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
那不是養肥貓,怎麼樣才是養肥貓啊?這幾位你所說的執行長,他的敘心不是今天發生,也不是上個禮拜發生,長期以來他有一套的人事禁用的方式,也有一套敘心的標準,這個在政府裡面都有,所以他不是說特別養了哪一個人,你特別把他稱作肥貓,我是非常不願意用這樣的字眼來形容。 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
22057.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
22057.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
二、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、46、47、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
22076.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
22106.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
尤其在這裡工作人員是不公平的因為我是覺得依照他領這樣的薪水但是他所做的事情我想院長也知道當時到花蓮去的時候我也說你們那網站上面根本任何一個資料都查不到嘛當然在我們的陸續的干涉監督之下你們也陸續的公佈了但是現在整個情況還是不夠的公開透明所以針對這個我想院長你是臨時理責花蓮地震的來清楚的向社會來公佈 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
22108.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
22121.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
制度應該公佈那補助給誰若干隱私的部分應該要保障如果這樣的情況底下應該要把資訊做必要程度的公開這個也是政財基金會本身獲自公信力的一個方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
22122.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
22148.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
人民捐的善款真的是需要直接全部專款專用而且要用在花蓮災民的身上是不是應該要明確公開給花蓮災民和全國捐款的民眾知道呢所以我覺得說這個可能是你們要回去再監督一下因為畢竟我剛才也講了嘛爽領高薪還是要做好自己的工作啊好謝謝希望委員都可以鼓勵該檢討的地方我們一定檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
22149.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
22161.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
希望院長和部長務必要重新檢視勸募條件還有監管的機制,這樣以免避免大家愛心遭到不合理還有不法的濫用,這樣以後大家才能相信政府好不好?好的,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
22174.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
22192.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
小小病自我要療的概念落實到大病到醫院小症狀到藥局的分級醫療概念在國外自我照護本來就是一個很廣泛而且非常正確的觀念了民眾在身體不舒服的時候只要到附近的社區藥局透過藥師的協助購買成藥還有指示用藥緩解症狀或評估是否就醫 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
22197.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
22215.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
其實這也是這幾年,隨著我們先進國家的推廣的國民健康政策,所以在保障用藥安全的前提下,推動自我照護的觀念對健保而言,更是減少醫療費用的支出,並節省了需要費時的就醫看診的社會成本。 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
22216.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
22242.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
其實這個是現在國際醫療的趨勢已經把自我要聊列為重要的衛生的政策所以我看了根據健保署的統計只要國人減少一次就醫的情況一年可以省下378億點大約可以為健保省下340億元那國人只要願意稍微改變一下觀念就可以為自身的健康 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
22242.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
22270.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
自己共同負責對於節省珍貴的健保支援也是有顯著的幫助那當國家在想辦法來拯救這個健保的時候通常有時候會用搶人民荷包的感覺漲健保費在拯救的整個健保但是自我造福我覺得是根本解決健保體質的解方之一所以我覺得我們應該學習先進國家推廣國民健康政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
22270.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
22274.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
提升自我照護的觀念那部長你同意嗎?嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
22277.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
22303.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
報告委員我非常同意我們一定要推廣self care這種自我照顧這種風氣這也是世界的潮流那政府在這方面也一直努力在推展同時也協助在自我照顧當中總是要有資源當然有包括我們的不管是試癌篩檢、成人健檢還有很多社區的一個服務都是在自我照顧裡面幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
22305.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
22324.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
我們民眾來給他self care 剛才部長講說那是我們政府要推動沒錯我查了一個資料10年前衛福部就已經發了一個新聞稿說103年的時候要強力推動自我要了結果10年了現在一點成果也沒有那部長我相信你上台之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
22324.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
22324.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
﹚主席﹚ |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
22354.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
22358.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
復用事後避孕藥的時間是不是越快越好呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
22379.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
22383.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
對,剛剛講的指示用藥、處方用藥這個方向我想一直在溝通跟前進這個我想委員也應該很清楚那任何一個藥物的使用一定都要跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
22401.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
22402.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
臨時提案委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
22421 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
22439.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
請問一下,如果緊急病醫藥現在還要到醫療院所去開,然後醫療院所又放假又休整,那無法拿藥,那民眾平日要下班時間還是額外的請假,那才能取到這個用藥,那對民眾來說其實是非常的不方便的,無法及時順利的解決民眾需要用藥急迫性的問題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
22440.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
22448.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
所以衛福部是不是要來檢討藥品轉類的問題呢?而且根據我了解指示藥品及成藥製藥小組就曾經開過這個會然後來討論過將緊急事後必用藥從醫生處方轉類為指示用藥但是根據本席了解這一個會議中有做成了會議結論 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
22459.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
22481.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
但是為什麼食藥署10月19號被問卻說跟媒體講說醫師團體等專家評估暫無共識呢那請問部長為什麼我們衛福部的政策擱到現在還沒有共識呢為什麼現在還沒共識啊還是早就有共識還是根本就是你們衛福部裡面的高層有人不同意呢拜託部長你身為醫生啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
22482.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
22500.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
一則人心拜託千萬不要讓女性生育的自主權被剝奪了政府現在都在營造友善的生育環境怎麼讓女性安心且自由選擇何時懷孕這應該是政府的重要責任可以盡快召開會議討論嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
22502.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
22528.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
好,因為這個涉及的層面比較廣泛,社會各界意見也比較分歧,所以我們會趕快再持續來溝通。對啊,你先看一下嘛,現在先進國家幾乎都是變成指示用藥啦,而且他們將緊急事後冰藥,這種是沒有,就是已經是非常安全的藥品了。這早就要轉成指示用藥了嘛,怎麼還要到診所去開呢?診所都休息,這個又有 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
22529.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
22542.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
急迫性的我覺得這個齁應該是真的是要回去研議一下是的我們會趕快持續來溝通部長你可以一個月內開會討論嗎請衛福部務必要給本席一個正面的答案我們盡快討論盡快開會討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
22545.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
22546.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
因為現在醫藥分業還是在藕斷絲綠 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
22578.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
22601.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
好 謝謝謝謝林益君委員的質詢 謝謝主任長及相關部會首長的備詢 謝謝現在我們在二樓是遠從彰化縣方苑鄉來我們立法院參觀新寶國民小學的同學歡迎啊我們國家未來的主人翁加油接下來我們請登記第5號羅廷偉委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
22613.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
22620.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
好,謝謝院長。有請左院長。麻煩再請左院長備選。邱部長,謝謝。麻煩請衛福部長備選。陸委員好。院長好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
22629.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
22648.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
院長 勞動部說月薪3.1萬屬於低薪 全國約有120萬的勞工 針對低薪 院長這週要開會討論我今天手邊就有些資料 可以跟院長就教一下另外我要先補充 有41.9萬的人失業 8月的失業率已經提升到3.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
22650.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
22671.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
十一個月新高而且是連續三個月。 青年失業已經大於平均中高年的失業率是五倍。 這一點我要跟大家來討論一件事情。 今天我要提供一個資料來讓全國的青年來知道如何搶救低薪48000的工作只要辦這張。 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
22673.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
22692.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
找工作辦民進黨黨政,辦這張就有辦法找到4萬8的工作。 院長,針對食藥署人事案,你說倘若任用的資格不符標準,絕對是違法,以及如果跟首長有近親關係,絕對要避免,你有沒有說過? |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
22692.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
22692.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
是的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
22693.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
22720.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
請問一下這一個回覆是你要給全民的回覆嗎?衛福部給我的回函跟院長上週五給本席回答的根本是做的一套做的又不一套兩者啊我看到真的讓我覺得你們到底有沒有內部溝通啊你跟賴清德黨主席一樣是不是都是講一套做一套衛福部承認誠信祭司來自藥廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
22722.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
22737.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
更表示只要不處理二等輕的業務內容藥證就沒有關係你不覺得太扯嗎?已經證實他就是藥廠的孩子現在告訴我不處理二等輕就沒關係請問一下他來自藥廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
22739.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
22768.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
他的爸爸如果有藥廠的關係其他的朋友是藥廠有藥證的需求跟他爸爸請託他的孩子在藥廠藥證裡面就處理這樣的業務他會不會有協助?第二對於沒有這個藥廠的孩子在食藥署裡面的這些藥廠公平嗎?所以你給我的回函說只要這個孩子他不處理二等輕以內的業務就沒有關係是這樣嗎?你的標準有這麼低? |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
22769.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
22779.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
發言委員我想我們有您的來訓的隨行的時候我們有完全去了解到你提的這幾個部長回答我這是不是你的回函 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
22781.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
22806.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
你可以認同只要不處理二等親他藥廠的孩子就可以在裡面處理藥證嗎?因為你提的這一位其實在大概103年的以前就在工作我現在就抓出問題你認同嗎?當時他進來的時候不好意思時間有限我只問你認同嗎?不是在掌管這樣的業務啦院長你可以認同嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
22809.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
22836.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
回答不出來不是沒有掌管他主來我再聽第2個案例第5個案例你聽聽看因為部長所說的他在任用的時候他並沒有這樣的身份但是他現在是不是應該避嫌對對對民進黨現在在主以淪陷都不用避嫌嗎我認為部長要去了解一下他現在就在這個位置上面對整個業務的推動是不是會讓人家有不必要的想像就是有不必要的想像嗎如果是這樣的話他的爸爸是江蘇藥廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
22837.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
22866.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
江蘇藥廠的主要負責人之一還是國內的廠商之一來,第二個更扯林興副審查員他的學經歷完全不符合資格院長你知道這件事嗎?徵才資格裡面寫得清清楚楚要醫學、藥學相關的背景碩士學位你們任用給我的回函寫什麼?因為他有20年的國會經驗可以代替 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
22867.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
22886.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
這就是認證了我當時所說的你們任用的是所謂的綠色委員的助理來當副審查員到現在你還給我亂扯20年的國會經驗可以抵過所謂的碩士學位醫學背景我現在告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
22886.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
22907.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
只要有任何人只要他在醫院從事行政、書務甚至是20年以上的打掃經驗是不是就能夠跟醫學相關背景的這些年輕人來找同一份工作你會不會覺得你的回答太扯這就是因為民進黨黨政給了他這個四萬八的工作嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
22909.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
22937.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
抱歉這個是黨政無關那你回答我為什麼20年的國會經驗可以在你的徵才資格沒有寫最後所謂的綠燈大開直接讓他任用好 報告委員這位是我有去問一下任用的署他們當成張彩的時候當然是要選擇最適當的那這位後來這位因為他滿有經驗因為這位就是想要跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
22940.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
22958.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
你講話真的很心虛啊 部長你為了一個民進黨的助理講話越來越扯 我覺得你有人事壓力 既然已經調查完畢 本席來看院長你有沒有跟本席手上掌握的資料是一致的 第一個 請問一下 民進黨立委關說這個案子有沒有問過李明新主秘 有沒有問過 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
22960.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
22967.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
院長部長有沒有問過回答我有就沒有不好意思請問那個有立委官說這個人事案有沒有問過 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
22969.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
22996.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
我完全不知道,因為那個你說李明欣這案的那個已經在103年之前的,是106年前。 李姓副審查員是在今年6月24號所開出的人事任用徵才資格,是在你上任之後,你還在跟我扯103年。對對對,那你說的副審查員那一位那個是的確是。關切這個人事案的是不是劉姓跟陳姓立委?我完全不知道有任何委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
22998.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
23003.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
臨時副審查員在面試的時候有一位非公職身份的人呆在現場督導這一場面試那個人是誰?知不知道? |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
23019.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
23044.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
因為他的資料越來越多,你再不承認。在他工作的那個署,那就有那一邊接,我這一邊沒有接。 也不知道。完全不知道。院長,第三個最後一個問題,回答我。七科組組長許昭凱,面試完以後都資格不符。為什麼現在有人更改了這個許組長的批示? |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
23047.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
23067.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
回答我,為什麼在面試官已經批示資格不符,現在去更改了這個批示?就是有這個現象,我告訴你,資格不符已經很明確,你現在還給我回函說20年的國會經驗可以頂替一切。 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
23068.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
23078.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
你對得起全國人民?你對得起全國青年嗎?失業率越來越高,青年求職不易,我們要的是一個公平公正公開的一個,有這麼難嗎?院長、部長回我回答我,你要再壓血無聲了,全國百姓都在看。 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
23089.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
23115.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
本須要延續的很簡單社會的弱勢沒有良好背景家庭的孩子在求職上能夠有一個公平不要輸在起跑點告訴全國百姓青年認真讀書也有機會逃避但是今年認真讀書符合相關徵才資格就因為忘記辦理黨證他輸在了起跑點變成這一場求職的陪讀合理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
23119.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
23123.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
院長,你已經鴉雀無聲很久了,回答我好不好? |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
23124.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
23150.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
上次委員有垂詢到這樣的議題當時我是說請衛福部是不是在一個禮拜你要給你給你答覆他給你的答覆如果成為你手中所說的是這樣的內容那與事實是否有出入或是相符我要請部長再重新調查重新瞭解那這個調查我們會持續追蹤後續相關的事務不僅要答覆給委員也要讓我清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
23151.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
23177.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
另外我要請問輸出役的問題 上次我有提到三、五 院長7月9號到現在已經100多天了 有將近215萬袋的輸出役已經進入到各個醫療機構 我想問你生理食鹽水非屬必要藥品 所以就醫藥事法第55條 藥物樣品正品管理第二條第7款所稱的 申請公共安全公共衛生重大災害使用者 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
23178.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
23180.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
公共安全、公共衛生、重大災害 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
23200.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
23227.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
無從選擇啊都是相同的重要的事情啊都是相同重要我要跟院長說啊這個其實就是答不出來不好意思三者全無啊我們要看到到底為什麼三者全無公共安全重大災害都不對啊公共衛生是指申請預防整治如寄生蟲感染傳染性疾病等公共衛生需要請問這有傳染病嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
23227.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
23253.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
公共安全、公共衛生怎麼可能是公共衛生呢?輸出疫在臺灣有傳染性的疾病嗎?重大災害是什麼災害?委員給這三個選項設定前提那當然會有輕重緩急之分如果沒有設定前提當然是重要的我給你最新的報告食藥署給我的答案這三個都不是是類推適用三者都不成立啊所以呢他們成立了一個新的說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
23254.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
23270.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
叫做類推適用,你們換了一個更扯的說法,原本依據藥事法第55條,現在類推適用是藥事法第27-2,必要藥品的短缺通報等登錄及專案核准製造輸入的一個辦法來做一個辦理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
23271.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
23287.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
來做一個依據。 院長藥品只有分必要藥品跟非必要藥品,但你們自創了一個法律用語,臨床上具急迫必要性,所以類推適用藥事法27條之二。 院長什麼是類推適用?部長答覆一下,你們的答覆是什麼內容? |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
23289.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
23303.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
我首先跟委員報告,那個適用是法性,其實在相關的法令裡面,我們也經過相關法律的人士是沒有問題的。來,你們7月9日我質詢完,7月10日開記者會,要打我的臉。 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
23306.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
23332.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
告訴大家是用前面三個公共安全、公共衛生或者是動大災害。好,現在私底下給我回函。食藥署並沒有官方的宣布並沒有發新聞稿跟社會大眾來報告,只有回復本席。全台灣只有食藥署跟我知道。是怕被大眾質疑你們現在改用了類推適用嗎?院長,類推適用只是適用於法律的漏洞。 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
23334.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
23358.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
存在的時候,院長我想問你,請問藥師法有漏洞嗎?是在哪一條?55條?27條之2?還是39條?部長你可以救他。好,呃,發言委員,我們是用一條60,應該是62條。你又在胡扯,你又在胡扯! |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
23359.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
23387.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
你根本都在胡扯嘛!藥事法竟然將藥品分為必要藥品跟非必要藥品其中在衛福部明令公告的必要藥品當中清單裡面內的必要藥品就是在無法繼續製造輸入或不足供應的時候才可以現在其製造或輸入才可以排除第39條的一個限制適用藥事法規定27條之二第三項我們現在衛福部所訂定的一個辦法之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
23388.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
23404.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
而非必要藥品則不容許例外。 不容許例外你們7月10號的記者會食藥署告訴大家生理食鹽水非必要之藥品不容許例外阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
23405.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
23432.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
所以非屬必要藥品的清單生理食鹽水當然更不容許例外的產生我們的法就有明確有意的去做區分了各自來排除用來保障人民的安全當然非法律漏洞的時候自不得類推適用現在哪裡有漏洞所以我要送給院長三個扯無法源依據扯改類推適用扯不挺本土廠扯 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
23434.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
23456.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
你們那一天還跟我講更扯的是什麼沒有藥害基金的賠償使用生理食鹽水如果產生生命安全之疑慮要做什麼消保法來求償你以為今天用生理食鹽水是在逛百貨公司喔有沒有基點有沒有滿千送百消保法 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
23458.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
23458.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
講這什麼話? |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
23458.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
23475.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
院長你能夠同意用生理食鹽水產生問題嚴重影響到人民、國人安全的時候用消防法嗎?是的 這個生理食鹽水是特定的需求的時候才會使用當然跟一般的消費是不一樣的那基於健康的這個要求我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
23476.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
23501.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
有一定程度的要求他的安全是絕對必要的。藥害基金確定不賠,食藥署確定說要用消保法,太扯了。最後剩1分鐘我要告訴你,不挺本土廠。我們去查過台灣大總製藥、越南大總製藥、日本大總製藥,為什麼你們不給台灣大總製藥來處理?第一,你們給予的健保支付的相對應根本不夠價格。 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
23503.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
23505.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
我記者會再繼續跟你追 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
23555.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
23571.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
好好 謝謝羅廷偉委員質詢 謝謝卓院長、相關部會所長備詢 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
23576.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
23600.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
跟議會報告,現在在我們二樓議場旁聽貴賓席是美國國會助理訪問團,參加我們議會訪問團,歡迎大家。接下來登記第6號範圍委員,這質詢已書面提出,請行政院書面答覆,並列入紀錄刊登公報。在接下來我們請登記第7位李燕秀委員質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
23607.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
23607.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
主席李文豪議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
23633.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
23651.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
院長你從民意代表出身,你非常知道工會對於我們業務的推動,在職災在各方面其實都協助我們很多,但是歷經了很多年,其實包括我們的基本工資跟電價的調整,還有包括消費者物價指數每一年都在調整增加,所以我在這邊我要跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
23652.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
23665.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
委員長再次爭取,就是說有關於我們行政補助費對於各項工會的補助,未來是不是有機會再調整,甚至有機會我們聯動物價的有機會我們重新每一次視我們財務狀況進行檢討。 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
23668.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
23689.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
我了解勞動部有在做這樣的研議,那可能在往後的年度。我知道是後年,因為我推動了好多年,我知道部長有承諾各公會說是後年,但是如果今年財政狀況許可,我們在省預算或多或少追加減預備金,多多少少補助一些,我們可不可以放在討論研議的範圍之內? |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
23691.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
23696.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
第二個問題,小子女化的問題,每一個孩子都是寶,我們不僅要鼓勵父母多生,生出來的部分值如何照顧得更好,是重點。 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
23718.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
23735.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
院長我有幾個數據我們現在嬰兒的死亡率創14年新高然後包括新生兒的死亡率今年是15年的新高我們就要去探究問題是為什麼這當然有不同的問題包括我們現在女性的平均生育年齡是32.44歲就大家早晚結婚還是生的晚 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
23740.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
23756.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
三個婦女裡面生小孩第一胎生小孩三個裡面有一個是超過35歲也就是高齡產婦每一位高齡產婦其實就增加早產的風險那所以我要再一次爭取院長我不知道你知不知道這個數據就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
23757.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
23776.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
早產兒新生兒6個月所需的平均花費高達11.4萬元, 遠高於逐月的每一個胎兒, 逐月生產38週生產,前6個月大概只需要2.8萬元, 所以很多早產兒的婦女還有早產兒基金會, |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
23777.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
23805.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
前一陣子不斷的到立法院來做跟各黨派做溝通所以我希望在少子女化我們整個項目就是說不只我們怎麼建幼兒園或者是其他的層面我希望對於非藥物的早產兒的營養品用品我們是不是可以討論放在少子女化的那個整個政策基金裡面去思考這一塊去照顧早產兒的這個相關的一些營養品跟用品部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
23806.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
23826.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
委員的考量出發點絕對是正確的那實務上現在怎麼來做包括他的花費啦以及現在我們這一塊到底可以說過去從來沒有納入過但是這一塊我們可不可以放在討論的政策裡面研議包括去補助他們家庭的早產兒家庭的定額照貨津貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
23829.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
23830.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
有關這一塊我們還特別來研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
23859.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
23883.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
足月額跟不足月額前6個月照顧金被差至少5倍以上。我最後一個問題,包括現在早產兒的鐵的添加物現在全球是缺貨,這個問題什麼時候可以解決?部長,院長可能不知道,你要知道啊,現在早產兒的母乳添加劑現在全球缺貨,那現在缺貨的問題什麼時候可以給答案? |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
23885.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
23910.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
早產而需要模擬添加劑,現在這個部分缺貨。 國際因素缺貨,怎麼樣去調度這些,因為現在是缺貨的狀況,我提醒你。我再來了解國內的狀況,其實我們在缺藥相關的一個平台是功能非常的好,如果有任何的反應。 現在還是沒有,所以我現在告訴你現在沒有,趕快去調度處理,三天之後告訴我。 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
23911.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
23935.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
最後一個問題,院長我長期在關注你周遭朋友一定很多人得過胚狀性皰疹,上個會期我已經問過了,但是沒有給我具體的答案。我覺得這件事情,我知道財政的狀況有限,但是這個是很多高風險族群,三高也好,我們試財務經費來去做補助,我一直在爭取,現在有一些縣市對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
23936.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
23961.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
高危險群有可能得帶狀性炮子毀裝的高危險群他們有一些補助有一些縣市因為財務狀況不好並沒有做所以我一直希望中央我們就是中央帶頭來補助這件事情至於是不是三高或者是低收入戶或者是低三高又是低收入戶我們再來做我們可以分階段來做但是如果政府在第一時間釋出一些善意至少照顧到 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
23963.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
23983.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
經濟上有困難但是又是高危險群如果經費許可我們可以來試試看但是如果連到底什麼樣的狀況需要多少的經費你們連那個表都沒做出來我們怎麼去做進一步的討論評估所以院長我們可不可以趕快做這件事情好謝謝委員現在在很多公費疫苗的施打方面是還沒有把 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
23983.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
23984.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
臨時提案委員：完整會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
24003.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
24004.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
接下來我要問幾個問題這是今天中午出來熱騰騰的民調我要請教院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
24030.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
24050.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
在TVBS今天下午有一份民調出來討論到總統就這個國慶的演說之後的民調有百分之將近49的民眾滿意賴總統的演說但是也有百分之41的民眾不支持國慶的演說賴總統是強調要團結臺灣但是從民調看起來是兩極化院長你認為問題點在哪裡部長你可以請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
24058.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
24072.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
如果看這樣的民調我現在我最有興趣的需要去看看那21%跟20%到底不滿意的重點在哪裡希望能夠找出來為什麼大家不滿意 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
24073.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
24073.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
另外在兩岸關係上的表現 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
24090.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
24114.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
只有39%滿意,有47%對於賴總統的兩岸關係是不滿意的,比在就職演說那天的演說其實又掉了兩個百分點,也就是說有越來越多的群眾對於賴總統處理的兩岸關係是不滿意的,這是我第一個問題。 第二個問題,我聽到羅文嘉副董事長說要跟對岸談二六共識, |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
24116.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
24134.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
請問院長,26共識,你的26共識,你心目中的26共識是什麼?26是馬祖的一個地點。對,我知道,但是你的26共識內容是什麼?不要九二共識,26共識尊重…形式上是剛剛那樣講的,那我覺得他講這話的意思是認為說, |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
24136.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
24165.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
九二共識那個我們認為不存在的共識 那沒關係那二六共識內容是什麼沒關係你覺得不存在的 那你的二六共識是什麼 九二共識那個不存在的即使他認為有共識的人那也是二三十年之前的問題現在兩岸國際有新的局勢跟新的發展應該要有新的機會讓新的領導人跟新的兩岸事務的關係能夠來討論 現在已經是新的領導人就是新的領導人但是大家對於賴總統兩岸關係是越來越不滿意所以院長你覺得根本的問題在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
24166.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
24180.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
兩岸關係,我想總統一直堅持臺灣的主權跟國家的安全,這一點應該沒有人反對,但是他認為中華民國跟中華人民共和國互不隸屬,這個是有人反對啊?反對的理由倒是很奇怪。 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
24185.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
24202.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
因為不滿意的人越來越多,從這個數據上,從TVBS,不是我李燕秀的數據,是TVBS數據出來,越來越多人不滿意。就是說,我想要知道,院長你覺得根本的問題在哪裡,那如何解決?羅文嘉提出來的二六共識,你覺得有沒有能力解決這個問題? |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
24204.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
24214.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
雖然我手上現在沒有數據,但是我很有把握的請委員多看幾家的民調數據,再來綜合,光看一家難免偏失。好,我尊重。最後一個問題就是賴總統在國慶提到的祖國論,賴總統強調說 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
24222.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
24238.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
那天他談的祖國論有57%的民眾支持但是你們非常熟悉的顧寬敏的夫人王美秀女士說她請問賴總統這個國家的歷史是從什麼時候開始也就是深綠獨派的很多人還是對於賴總統對於國家的歷史是從什麼時候開始是有意見的所以我要請問院長就是說你們如何去處理這個深綠獨派的反彈 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
24249.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
24274.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
身為中華民國臺灣的總統 取得就是國家跟人民的最大公約數難免會有人對他的當時的講話 會有不同的意見所以不需要去理他不是不需要去理他把他當宿交就繼續往前走我們繼續做這樣的論述 那麼去跟其他不同意見或是還沒有接受的國人能夠做更多的說明 比方你剛剛第一題我就希望我能找出 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
24275.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
24276.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
謝謝,我們也真的非常期待。 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
24298.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
24301.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
財源財源確實是在這一次預算審查當中的重中之重。 這一次我們看到勞保基金在114年編了1400 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
24320.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
24343.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
一千三百億,雖然說勞保撥補和部長說就是改革,但是對你來說他也不見得是反正撥補就是撥補,總而言之勞保基金我們撥了一千三百億,那另外在我們的台電的部分,今年編了一千億,那明年又要給一千億,所以就是持續的送上大紅包,這兩個政策無論對於台電的撥補,對於勞保基金的撥補, |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
24347.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
24360.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
其實金額都不算小對不對算多嘛部長點頭嘛對不對這個事情呢聽到在邱部長的耳朵裡面我們的健保今年只撥336億哇 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
24365.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
24379.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
那是健保、財務健全的那一部分,健保我們還有很多,還有整個加起來是500多億,甚至再加上公務預算一路等於110億,數字更大。336億健全財務的部分。 今年你編列336億的預算,要去撥補健保,但是實質的健保的內容,院長你看我後面的表就知道了, |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
24391.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
24415.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
三百三十六億當中有一部分一百一十億本來就是政府依法要補足編列百分之三十六政府應該負擔百分之三十六比例的健保經費三百三十六億是這樣子然後有一百一十億是吃健保豆腐然後另外一百三十四億是原來欠健保另外十億是菸捐所以你們現在只是把錢再撥還給菸捐所以我覺得我為什麼是這樣講 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
24419.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
24435.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
因為看到台電可以撥補一千億,看到勞保可以撥補一千三百億,在健保的部分,在很多醫界的眼中,大家就會覺得說,那台電不能倒,那難道健保就能倒嗎?那另外, |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
24436.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
24465.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
我要提到賴總統在今年成立的三大委員會當中他說他要替國家發展擬定戰略和民間的一些對話跟目標這三大委員會也會成為我們世界的解方替國家擬定戰略政策這三大目標當中有一個就是健康台灣所以在我看來健康台灣一手舉著健康台灣在另一隻手就是踐踏我們的健保對很多醫界來說臺電不能倒 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
24466.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
24487.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
但是健保就是要持續吃我的豆腐,那特別是我現在最後一分鐘。 委員今年的健保費用已經高達9200多億了。 9200多億。 今年就是336億,所以賴總統說今年不要再談點子,要看價值,但是在我看來賴總統的價值就是持續的這樣一一借作功德。 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
24489.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
24508.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
持續的叫醫界做功德,叫護理人員做功德,在我眼睛看起來就是這樣子。所以報告之前有撥補240億,當時賴清德還沒選之前,撥補240億放在健保的準備金裡面,直接撥到健保基金,從準備金撥到基金,所以我要請問院長, |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
24509.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
24511.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
委員推論嚴重的錯誤,我們會給你順序的數字再向您報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
24531.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
24546.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
謝謝李嫣秀文質詢。謝謝卓院長相關部會所長的備詢。接下來登記第8號洪森漢委員之質詢以書面提出,請行政院書面答覆,並列入紀錄刊登公報。再接下來登記第9號,請王世堅委員質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
24564.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
24592.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
謝謝院長。我請行政院卓院長。麻煩請卓院長再次備詢。黃委員好。卓院長,又見面了。我今天第二段的質詢是要跟你談一些,那麼雖然比較細微,但是其實是 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
24594.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
24621.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
更重要的所以我們今天就很和緩的來討論我想我們幾十年來我們台灣最大的一個特點也是我們國家的一個優點就是我們國家的醫療品質跟這個服務價格那如果我簡單用四個字形容 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
24622.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
24648.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
我們臺灣的醫療品質跟價格相比叫做價廉物美那這價廉物美其實是長期以來建立在我們國家醫護人員他們有很多權益的犧牲尤其是跟先進的國家相比 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
24649.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
24649.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
所以就提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
24677.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
24704.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
我們每位委員都會提到這個點值啦那點值當然該是多少我們國家再來細算這當然是沒問題可是這個點值的部分我覺得基層醫療的點值最重要因為基層醫療相較於其他的醫學中心、區域醫院、地區醫院而言 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
24706.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
24714.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
他們的平均的成本都比較高甚至成本都遠高於醫學中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
24716.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
24738.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
我舉例,比方說基層醫療診所,第一點他們有任何業外收入,他不像大型醫院有業外收入,地下室可以停車,有停車場,有那麼多空間為了要造福病患跟病患家屬,所以他們可以出租,做美食中心,做賣醫療器具的場所等等等等。 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
24739.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
24766.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
那這些業外收入很多那大型醫院尤其醫學中心採購的藥量體那麼大他們的折扣相對也比較大第三個比方說他們一些基本的成本護理人員的成本藥師的成本他們相對平均下來會比較低那基層醫療診所這些負擔都非常非常的重 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
24767.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
24794.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
結果我看了一下我們這個基層醫療診所的點子竟然竟然連這幾年連0.9都不到0.9都不到當然所以醫界現在尤其是基層醫療診所他們是頗有怨言當然吐了怨言以後他們事後也都會吞下來可是可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
24796.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
24808.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
長期以往這是非常不公平的一位醫生從他學生學生的過程他要高於其他各 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
24809.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
24809.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
二、3、4、5、6、7、8、9、10、11、12、12、13、14、15、16、17、18、19、20、21、22、23、24、25、26、27、28、29、30、31、32、33、34、35、36、37、40、40、41、42、43、44、45、46、47、48、49、49、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、50、 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
24837.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
24850.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
故然不是在你們手上去放行的可是過去歷屆幾位院長竟然放任這些醫學中心、大型醫院他們到基層去 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
24851.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
24870.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
假藉著這個醫學中心的名號那去設置診所去設置大量的基層診所你看到處在臺北市到處看的時候那一棵大樹之下那個符號之下欸它是個診所夠膽他去開設分院我們還沒話講 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
24872.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
24892.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
分院他要買土地蓋房舍,要購買檢驗機具等等,成本他也不花,他為什麼設診所?除了成本低以外,對他們而言他們就像把牛肉湯撐水一樣,他要來分食基層醫療的點子。 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
24895.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
24914.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
院長我希望在你任內這些通通不要再放行了 不要再任由這些大型 尤其是財團醫院在各縣市在各地方去廣設基層診所 因為這是非常不公平的 他們就是要來瓜分基層醫療的點子 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
24919.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
24944.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
這個會造成時時在做基層醫療的醫師們那非常非常大的痛苦傷心所以這一點能不能做到因為照說你都會區本來就不該你要設那你應該到偏鄉偏鄉醫療的地方去設不是這樣嗎結果台北市核准的通通是這些大型大型的財團醫院 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
24946.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
24962.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
這一點是不是院長你可以承諾這一個部分要做檢討好不好好謝謝委員用了相當長的時間闡述基層醫療在台灣現在整個醫療體系上他的弱勢我個人認為不只基層醫療連地區醫院進行上都是困難的 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
24963.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
24992.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
那過去我在議會在立法院的時代我接觸最多的就是基層醫療協會現在也是如此我深深知道他們的需求他們所面臨的困境那麼台如果是以都會區來講又是一個治療醫療資源比較充沛的地方更不應該更不應該這樣去做來自醫界們你看他那個他們那個心聲多痛苦我就舉罕病就好罕病我們全國有兩萬一千八百位 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
24994.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
25008.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
每年需要將近百億,今年預估要超過一百,大概一百零八億需要的耗費,但是這也完全符合我們全體國人共同要救治他們的心願。 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
25009.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
25034.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
結果在1屆的聲音你看他就是要求政府說要不然把罕病這一塊從健保這個拿出來不要加入點子單獨來計算那大家很沉痛的心情才會這麼講那我是認為千萬不要碰罕病這個部分這個部分本來我們全體國人都願意也很樂意這個部分應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
25038.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
25042.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
今年我們罕病用藥還給他加了一些經費預算希望能夠加到20億 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
25044.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
25045.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
韓病有加? |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
25045.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
25066.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
有,有加,韓病用藥,有加20億。 包括我們除了健保完全的加進去以外,行政院這一個部分,公益證都20億。我們洗腎有9萬7千人啦,那現在歐美日國家他們有進步,有進步的醫療啦,那可以再加洗腎,再加洗腎又可以免掉患者他們周遮勞頓。 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
25068.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
25090.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
那又可以讓他們洗腎時間長一點減少這個逆滲透的身體不舒服那麼這些非常這個重要結果光這個我們一屆提案來給我們那個健保這邊審專家會議都通過了現在在等所謂共同擬定會議一等 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
25093.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
25120.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
要是也不知何年何日才要通過 我覺得這個部分 院長是不是你交代部長這個部分查查看到底怎麼回事好不好公會那邊跟部裡面應該現在還在保持接觸當中我最近才得到這個訊息接觸了幾年了還在接觸我說就明年的明年這個計算的這個內容還在接觸當中希望說在你的手上在你的任內這個部分就能夠通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
25121.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
25128.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
我請部長趕快去計算清楚跟他們就業務上來詳細的規劃一下那麼我們也很樂意來看到就是說這個身心障礙權益保護法 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
25136.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
25163.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
說實在話這17年沒修了在你的手上總算這有修了但是這個修啊我整個法把它看過以後我發現我們對於自立生活身障者他們自立生活的部分還是沒有任何的著墨沒有任何的提升啦那麼身心障礙者這個所有的長照大概我們現在平均算在一天給他們大概連 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
25166.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
25190.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
連長照連智力生活照護每天不得超過6個小時的這一部分的補助啦但是這個部分啦那個剛剛講到這個效應以後那個院長這個部分我特別要針對長照師講的話我今天要質詢的部分齁我等了他三個禮拜啦資料都還沒來 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
25191.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
25206.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
我問他說,這個輔具啊,我們對生長者的輔具,生長者的輔具有科技輔具、一般輔具,那真正生長者在使用,他必須兩者並用。 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
25208.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
25234.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
但是長期以來我們對身障者的補助在這一個部分通通做掉身障者說你只能擇醫我一再的問那為什麼要擇醫同樣一個費用你讓他買兩種輔具或者有哪幾種科技輔具哪些一般輔具你有沒有這相關的資料因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
25235.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
25254.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
生長者真的跟家屬去買啦,到時候來申報,又不過,這個也不能過,那個也不能過,所以我就要常教師說,你答覆我為什麼不能兩者共用,兩者都買。 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
25255.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
25273.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
只要在你總額總金額內啊不是嗎然後我要他答覆我說申請那麼困難那你乾脆告訴我們有哪些輔具哪些廠牌可用等了三個禮拜他連甩都不甩啦天啊我們在立法院問 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
25275.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
25293.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
他都這種態度啦那他是如何面對現在身障者包括需要長照的老年獨居老人者他們來接洽會是多麼的困難所以也因為這樣我特別要求就是說是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
25294.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
25321.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
我們針對需要長照的以及身障者我們應該開政府應該研究一個統一窗口我舉個例齁為什麼他們的需求需要統一窗口來面對比方說我如果是個身障者我今天要去學校就學我接洽的必須跟教育部教育部再跟地方教育局聯絡那來幫助我 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
25322.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
25345.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
好了 我要去工作 我要就業 需要勞動部 勞動部在支援地方的勞工局所以到底我的需求就這一些啊 那我需要長照的部分 當然那就來啦就社家署 就是我們衛福部社家署 我們一個身障者一天 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
25347.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
25373.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
要做的就學就業長照那需要跟這麼多不同單位洽詢洽詢通過他們的核准以後再去找機構來派人力天吶我覺得這樣子這樣子的程序過於冗長那麼對於真正需要幫助的比方說獨居老人比方說身障者 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
25373.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
25402.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
完全毫無便利可言所以是不是院長應該下命令下去研究我們是不是統籌一個統單一窗口跟需要的身障者還有老人朋友們那麼跟他們做一個接洽才對委員剛剛所說的狀況我深覺得是不合理也不應該啦請回覆應該立刻從制度上馬上去 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
25403.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
25411.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
定定一套方式一般國人都應該簡正辨明何況是對身障者我們更應該有這個方向去走 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
25412.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
25433.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
我們現在的照顧制度很多,但如果落實這個才重要。 馬上提出一個方式,馬上去執行。 乾脆我們就訂一個額度,一個金額裡面,那它多少要用在長照,多少它是要用在自立生活,還有自立生活我們至少,院長,至少從最基本的喘息服務, |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
25434.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
25437.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
委員您提的這些不是未來長照3.0非常重要的重點我們會去推 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
25458.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
25486.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
那個部長剛好你提啦你手下的這個健保署長照師社家署社家署服務態度精神最好啦健保署齁是還OK啦最糟糕的就這個長照師我希望你回去丟根粉筆叫他在那裡面罰債好不好我們會改善謝謝我們來檢討謝謝王世堅委員的質詢令人感動謝謝左院長、各部會市長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
25489.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
25503.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
接下來我們登記第10號、第11號盧憲宜委員、邱若驊委員之諮詢。 均以書面提出,請行政院書面答覆,並列入記錄刊登公報。 再接下來請登記第12號葉元智委員諮詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
25524.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
25534.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
委員長好麻煩請卓院長謝謝麻煩再請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
25546.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
25560.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
院長好,想跟院長先報告一件事情,我不知道院長你了不了解,現在我們很多病人在急診室,如果他在急診室需要治療之後,需要住院的話,在急診室的時間越來越長了,你有注意到這個現象嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
25561.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
25562.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
三、10月18日上午1時50分為處理臨時提案時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
25578.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
25604.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
有的在急診沒有床位,急診的病患是就地治療,還有的是他在輪椅上面電擊,急診室塞爆,沒有心跳才被發現。其實這個是不只是對醫療品質是很大的傷害,而且我覺得對病人也非常不尊重。但這個問題之前我們也反映給衛福部很多次,完全都沒有得到任何的改善。我先舉幾個數據給你看,第一個, |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
25606.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
25616.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
先講一個我們現在在國旅大概平均我們平均國旅大概是一個人出去玩大概就是1.45天可是你知道我們現在在急診 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
25618.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
25622.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
在113年的上半年就已經有19213位他在急診室待48小時以上我這個數字只有48小時的可能還有72小時的 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
25639.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
25654.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、七、八、九、十、九、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、三、四、五、十、一、二、十、一、二、十、一、二、十、一、二、十、一、二、十、一、二、十、一、二、十、一、二、十、一、二、十、一、二、十、一、二、十、一、二、十、一、二、十、一、二、十、一、二、十、一、二、十、一、二、十、一、二、十、一、二、十、一、二、十、一、二、十、一、二、十、一、二、十、一、二、十、一、二、十、一、二、十、一、二、十、一、二、十、一、二、 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
25660.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
25678.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
有一些醫院,特別是臺大醫院,臺大醫院超過48小時的案件比例已經到了20%,五分之一啊。新北土城醫院也是20%,也是五分之一。這個狀況這麼嚴重,那難道是因為病人變多,沒有病床嗎?並不是。 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
25679.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
25697.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
並不是,實際上是有病床,但是沒辦法開,我們再來看一個數據,叫做這個叫佔床率,佔床率就是指說,他的醫院當初許可這麼多床,可是實際上他實際開的床是多少,你可以看,比如說有些比較低的,像國泰只有56.42,還有一些是60幾%的, |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
25701.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
25727.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
我沒有全部把它列出來啦齁但是實際上佔床率大概要7成多才算正常那我不知道院長你知不知道這個狀況他有床喔但是沒有開然後所以很多人就擠在急診室沒有辦法上去病床然後就會出現我們剛剛講的急診室非常多人的狀況院長你知道這個情況嗎應該是人力不足造成人力不足那確實是人力不足啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
25728.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
25736.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
對,我有看到,那人力不足怎麼辦,因為這個院長,沒有用啊,現在就是沒有解決啊,因為這事已經發生好幾個月,然後狀況越來越嚴重,我在未還委員會我也質詢過啊,當時希望, |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
25747.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
25749.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
是的,我如果談護理人力的話,我們非常可以說是 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
25776.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
25797.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
行政院用12個策略來努力...部長你那個12個策略如果有用的話這個情況不會越來越嚴重如果我們比較一頁的話我們在10月的時候其實已經增加了3095個五位的護理師在一頁增加了1513...這種數字沒有辦法解決這個問題啦我覺得問題是存在拿數字出來但是問題還是存在就沒有辦法解決沒有面對問題嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
25805.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
25821.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
那現在護理師確實他們也有很多他們的所謂的抱怨嘛,譬如說他們覺得薪資不夠,然後還有就是比如說沒有因應護病比來調整床宿的配置,這個是護理師他們所提出來的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
25821.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
25837.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
那我覺得這個最後可能也會歸因到一個問題啦就是現在的健保點值就是比較低嘛你現在一點大概本來應該要1.1元但是實際上現在可能是一點只有0.6元所以可以看得出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
25838.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
25840.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
一、二、三、四、五、六、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、八、七、 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
25853.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
25879.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
遵守立法院的主決議1點0.95元很多人講說你們為什麼都在幫醫生講話都在幫護士講話確實我們幫醫生講話幫護士講話因為他們非常辛苦更重要的是我們在幫病人講話我們整體來說是要提升醫療品質不是說在不是在幫哪一個族群講話所以光是健保點子這個沒有編到一點0.95元我覺得真的行政院真的有點對不起所有這麼多的民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
25881.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
25904.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
部長一直講說我們推出了多少對策多少方案可是實際上他就是沒有解決問題啊所以是不是可以針對這個問題真的認真的去了解到底怎麼把人力補足否則為什麼就是沒有護理師然後護理師現在職業率非常低護理師職業率有時候都不到六成欸就是我們有那麼多護理師但他們不願意在醫院上班到底問題是發生在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
25907.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
25919.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
我想這個護理留任這個部分有很多複雜的意思我們一個一個會多努力來解決那至於急診的用賽這個部分可能跟醫療體系也有關係比如說你去問台大醫院的院長他絕對說他 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
25921.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
25922.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
現在不是在精神喊話,我們一起來努力,現在問題就在這邊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
25945.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
25945.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
法務部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
25973.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
25992.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
報告委員,我們去年就今年第1屆第2屆其實平均臨時在醫院或在那個大概都有到0.9,所以這個部分可能要澄清一下。 第二個就是其實在明年的健保這個部分,其實行政院也給我們最大的,有史以來最高的成長力,以及 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
25994.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
26014.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
所以到達5.5所以這個部分就已經到達9200億以上這是破有史以來最高的已經非常盡力所以可見1.0.9都不夠啦一定要到1.1元啦但是因為行政院不願意嘛所以主決議是0.95這不是願不願意我們既要維持點值 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
26016.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
26041.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
並行總額那總額跟點子這樣算起來如果1.1元的話那總額制度就完全破壞掉了我不是認為說不應該我們會願意朝1.1元去前進去邁進但是這個總額制度的保障我們還要設計跟精細的設計因為這個點數的問題其實上個會議大家都寫上過了其實三長都簽字了那時候衛福部有派代表那現在又講另外一套我尊重了好不好那謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
26043.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
26067.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
那下一個問題我想問一下因為今天環境部也在問一個近鄰的問題因為我今天有媒體有報導就是外國媒體有專訪院長院長有提到說為了滿足AI的產業的發展所以對採用新的能源技術非常開放然後第二點是說只要台灣內部對於核能安全有共識的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
26068.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
26092.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
以及處理核廢料的問題有好的方向及保障那院長覺得採用這個新能源所謂的新核能你是願意接受的嗎應該是這樣有沒有誤解你的意思新的核能技術請問一下什麼叫新核能技術就是說跟傳統現在我們的舊的核能電廠的技術是截然不同的我早上有幾個例子燃油車跟氣電跟電動車比如說什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
26095.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
26124.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
我早上舉個例子,燃油車跟電動車就完全不同的新技術。未來新的技術的進步,現在世界各國都在極力的開發當中。哪一個開發當中,它未來的商業模式...你那有講跟沒講一樣啊。新的就是相對於舊的,我當然知道啊。但是因為你說新的能源技術,因為你是院長嘛,所以你講的話一定就有前瞻性,你有研究過嘛。請問一下什麼是新核能技術? |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
26125.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
26132.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
比方說2030年之後可能比爾蓋茲他手上正在研究的那個所謂快中指 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
26132.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
26156.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
有可能成功,可能成功,我們現在還不知道,有可能成功,有可能成為一個商業模式,成本這整個過程我們都可以的話,我們當然願意去開放討論,甚至用一種新的方式來運用。那你講這個有講跟沒講有什麼差別?我講沒講有講跟沒講,你有什麼意義?第二個,你說只要台灣內部對於核能安全有共識, |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
26157.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
26174.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
還有處理核廢料我覺得你講這句話感覺很像你在大樹底下跟人家聊天你知道嗎或是你是局外人我們講過很多次了這個是一個先決的條件因為你是行政院長按照憲法規定您是最高行政首長 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
26175.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
26202.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
河廢料的問題是你要解決的問題欸河能安全問題是你要解決的問題你怎麼可能說在接受媒體訪問的時候欸只要河能安全可以解決或河廢料可以解決我就採用河廢料好像這個事不關己你在台北新北市你知道河廢料的處理新北市政府也要協助嗎有啊所以他現在乾式儲存槽已經蓋已經放了嘛但是院長你知不知道為什麼他當時乾式儲存槽不太願意放你知道為什麼嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
26205.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
26215.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
是因為新北市非常害怕到時候臺電把核廢料永久放在新北市的乾式儲存槽裡面所以我現在問你一個問題因為當時臺電包括經濟部有訂定一個核廢料的永久儲存的期程 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
26227.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
26241.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
這個表格也幫你找到了在2018年到2028年我們要完成候選場址的評選跟核定就是說我們要找一個永久儲存場所以以新北市的立場來講只要你找到永久的儲存場 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
26241.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
26262.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
不管是在哪裡啦,你只要認真去找嘛,就像我們現在經濟部長不在,但是他很多想法嘛,電不夠可以到菲律賓把電運回來,也許核廢料也可以往各種方式去處理,但現在的問題是我們的方案定在那邊,2018到2028要完成,但是現在沒有任何的進展。 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
26263.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
26280.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
包括我上次在委員會的時候我問相關的部會 還沒有社會共識不是沒有社會共識是因為他沒有在動作如果有一天說選擇在新北市大家也不會同意啊社會共識因為你們當時就把核廢料講得很恐怖嘛讓大家非常恐懼嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
26281.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
26282.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
我們對核能要有專業的了解及知識。 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
26298.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
26323.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
目前以我們的對話來講 報告委員 核能本身是沒有罪過的 但是我們不要把它認為它是可以解決問題的萬靈丹 以來的新核能也許就沒有現在的問題了但是你在缺電的時候 核電就是一個非常穩定而且成本很低的供電方式啊 所以這才會 這個議題還會一直被討論嘛後端的處理又是大家非常的嫌弊 我只要提醒院長啦 就是院長你有責任去處理核廢料 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
26323.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
26330.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
第三個因為院長你那時候在那個好像前兩天吧我不知道你是肚子餓了還是剛吃完飯你就在臉書發文就用那個點菜來比喻總預算那後面還有講到說如果這個餐廳他如果覺得我是一個奧客的話就把我趕出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
26353.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
26368.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
就被人家解讀成倒閣那早上的時候也有委員問你倒閣啦你好像是說倒閣是不得已的方法我只要問一個問題倒閣是內閣制國家的一個制度對吧我們有不信任投票那你知不知道倒閣是為了解決什麼問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
26369.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
26389.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
為了解決將局對不對,將局嘛,然後為什麼要倒閣,因為要訴求最新的民意來決定到底誰是對的嘛,現在在野黨覺得要依法編列預算,行政院認為不能依法編列預算,有幾個,沒有依照禁法補償條例嘛,沒有依照主決議嘛,你們就不想這樣做,沒有依照預算法91條, |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
26394.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
26420.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
然後呢,現在呢兩邊有爭議,那我們讓民眾來決定,所以解散國會,大家重選,選出來藍白的立委,不只是6層,8層,然後院長結束了,解決問題了嗎?沒有,因為總統賴清德繼續提另外一個人當行政院長,比如說提名陳時中當行政院長,陳時中繼續不依法編列預算,那我想請問一下,倒閣這件事情解決了哪一個僵局? |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
26421.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
26424.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
我希望大家能夠各退一步來解決事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
26461.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
26480.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
謝謝葉元芝委員的質詢,謝謝卓院長、相關部會首長的備詢。接下來,我們第13號何新淳委員之質詢以書面提出,請行政院書面答覆,並列入記錄刊登公報。再接下來請登記第14號徐欣怡委員質詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
26495.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
26508.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
謝謝主席 本席有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備選徐委員好 院長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
26510.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
26528.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
本席今天想要為我們國家的主人翁孩子們、家長還有老人家來請命首先有非常有趣的一個數據我們台灣曾經是全球生育率最高 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
26529.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
26546.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
但是在去年不知道院長是否知道去年降到歷史新低我們是全球生育率最低那總生育率呢去年降到0.865人也就是一位婦女 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
26548.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
26564.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
這個升0.865位。那今年是龍年,照理說,我想院長應該知道,過去50年,包含我跟我弟弟,我們那時候出生的年代,過去50年只要碰到龍年, |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
26566.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
26583.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
龍子龍女的人口是暴增的。 今年龍年到今年前7個月,我們的全台出生人數是74,298人,比去年兔年同期還少了2,621人。 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
26586.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
26608.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
所以這個關鍵就在養小孩的成本太高了所以我們國人辛苦不敢生所以今天本席要替家長來請命在請命之前我們也發現到在陳水扁總統執政的那8年我們台灣的年出生的人口從30.5萬大跌到19.8萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
26614.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
26620.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
在馬英九總統執政的那8年 這個我們年出生的人口數從19.8萬回升到破20 20.8萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
26627.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
26645.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
我們蔡英文總統執政的8年再從20.8萬大跌到13.5萬所以首先本席想請教這個卓院長賴清德總統的這4年有想要搶救出生率嗎有或沒有就好請檢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
26647.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
26660.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
有,但是相當的困難。有,很好。那本席在這邊獻策。首先想請問院長,您覺得養一個小孩子,從出生到他22歲大學畢業成年, |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
26663.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
26692.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
正常養我所謂的正常養就是你可以這個去做月子中心也可以送托嬰中心或保母托嬰給小孩子補習然後正常的公立學校不一定要念私立那一路念上來當然大學看他考得上私立或公立這樣子您就出生到22歲您覺得要準備的生養育基金平均大概要多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
26694.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
26708.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
我如果大膽的說一個數字,我覺得要一千萬。您的一千萬算是養得比較好。以平均來說,大概是624萬到800萬。800萬是納入通膨,一千萬以上的是養得比較好的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
26718.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
26728.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
那接著呢在這個yes123求職網的調查他發現我們平均預估就是一個家庭的總收入 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
26730.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
26751.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
總的月收入就一個月的收入呢,你如果要養一個小孩,我家庭的總收入大概要11.1萬,可是呢現在的每個月平均的經常性薪資一個人是4.6萬,所以如果父母雙薪家庭這樣子大概平均是9.2, |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
26754.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
26772.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
所以我們這樣看到就算是雙薪家庭他也有半數以上達不到11.1萬所以以上本席講了這麼多包含衛福部自己做的全國兒童生活狀況調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
26773.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
26801.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
就發現假設我家裡有一個0到6歲兒童的家庭我們的家庭大概有一半以上大概就一半50%可以達到收支平衡那有兩成以上是家庭入不敷出所以綜合以上所述我們如果想要鼓勵我們國人生育現在有很多年輕人他是 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
26803.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
26807.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
一半以上他都覺得這個收支沒辦法平衡將近一半這個是衛福部自己做的那我一定確定入不敷出就有兩成所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
26829.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
26854.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
在這個衛福部也在最近有一個調查就是家長到底希望政府幫助什麼就是要提高育兒津貼還有提高兒童的醫療補助因為小孩子容易生病就怕生病要花費很大再來就是增設公立或公設民營的托育機構或幼兒園 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
26855.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
26856.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
26886.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
26901.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
公立、準公托、公用、還有非營利以及準公用都能夠讓他們一律免費。 那私立的我們來補助他最少一萬元。 院長可以嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
26902.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
26922.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
報告委員 就委員剛剛所說的雙薪家庭或是在台北市他沒有辦法很輕易的撫養一個小孩所以我們現在用的是不是只有台北市喔 我覺得任何縣市雙薪家庭 台北市狀況比較更嚴重啦沒有沒有其實我們這個各地都很嚴重所以現在政府用的是比較多的社會投資家庭支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
26922.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
26923.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
對,我知道,我知道。 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
26943.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
26969.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
本席所提的因為我們知道賴總統上任您擔任院長我們這個有再增加一些但是那些不足以鼓勵他們生育所以本席在這邊就是請命我們公立準公立還有這個非營利這個所有的公幼公托希望可以免費私立的補助一萬元以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
26970.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
26974.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
我們希望院長你好好思考,接著接著,我剩下一半的時間。 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
26987.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
27013.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
國家的財政能力我們會想辦法來讓國家更發展。接著接著我們就是一直出生率一直低嘛所以院長您知道嗎明年我們臺灣就進入了超高齡的社會所以超高齡社會就是每五個人裡面就有一位是65歲以上的老人也就65歲以上的人口佔了20%以上那所以呢本席在這裡先 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
27015.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
27043.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
這個特別的針對這個超高齡社會我相信院長跟部長都認同您會老我也會老大家都會老所以我們應該要超前部署所以我們現在長照3.0有很多要好好的來落實這個在後面剩下的時間本席會特別提但是在提之前本席還要特別提常見法我們過去是長照法 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
27044.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
27069.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
長健法就是長期健康的照顧法,而不是每個人人老了都要倒下來受人照顧,還有長壽健康照顧法,就是所謂長健法的精神。請問院長,您如果年紀大了以後,您最希望的是什麼?您去想一個老人家年紀大了,他最希望什麼?能夠自己治理自己的生活,不要影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
27076.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
27088.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
對,所以他希望他身心健康,而且他活得有品質,可以自理,有尊嚴,不會說我失智失能要人家照顧,這個是可以預防剩餘治療的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
27089.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
27102.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
二、三、四、五、六、七、八、八、九、十、九、十一、二、三、四、五、六、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二、十一、二 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
27106.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
27130.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
臺灣大概您也知道我們2022年國人的不健康餘命是7.41年也就是說臥病在床到走要臥7年可是人家丹麥7天那我們就要想辦法怎麼樣讓他們活得健康這一塊我們希望我們行政院可以超前部署來做有關長照3.0的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
27132.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
27151.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
長照3.0我們現在正在實施但是也碰到了諸多的問題首先第一個我們長照的發展基金我們看到114年的預算明年一年大概就會差短120.8億 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
27155.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
27173.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
我們現在長照基金大概剩下1406億所以我們可以預見10年之內長照基金大概就會破產了所以針對這一塊我們中央政府有沒有什麼對策 有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
27174.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
27182.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
我們現在要擴張到長照3.0我們必須要找新的裁員讓他更充裕新的裁員是什麼?有考慮長照保險法嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
27186.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
27212.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
世界各國有很多國家有在用實行之後的成效不見得完全都是滿分的也有在調整的我剛剛有委員提到我們也曾經答覆過現在世界各國先進的做法我們都可以來參考學習但是要符合我們的國情跟國人的需要我們在長沙3.0從家庭社區到機構到醫療到社福整套是做起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
27213.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
27215.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
長照保險法應該也可以考慮,只是看怎麼實施的比較好吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
27234.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
27244.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
有在考慮這個草案嗎?行政院?我們有收集國外的經驗來做比較。那目前還在研擬階段。這個可能部長會更清楚現在的進度吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[720].start |
27245.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].end |
27246.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].text |
當然﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[721].start |
27271.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].end |
27280.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].text |
人力的問題有一個就是世界各國先進國家做得非常好的叫做時間銀行這點我不知道院長有聽過嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[722].start |
27282.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].end |
27303.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].text |
我可以把自己的時間先去做一個服務存起來。 存起來未來對所以這一塊我們中央政府現在有開始在部署著手進行嗎因為這個由政府來做會更好不然的話現在就本席知道有些民間某個縣市做但是很有可能他這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].start |
27306.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].end |
27332.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].text |
比如說他80歲以前,他剛好都住在南部,可是他80歲以後,兒子、媳婦叫他到台北跟他住,他就來台北。如果只有南部有在實施,他這個時間銀行的存摺裡面也有時間。但是如果不是全國性都有在適用的話,那他到了北部他可能就不能用。所以這個中央政府能不能超前部署來進行。 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].start |
27334.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].end |
27334.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].text |
是的﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[725].start |
27355.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].end |
27381.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].text |
我們希望我們能夠看到政府早點來做,因為這個從規劃到執行也需要一些時間。那接著,有關長照3.0在地方有製造中心,有喘息服務,還有關懷據點。本席在這裡要特別為偏鄉地區來請面。很多偏鄉地區人力不足,那我們給的這個共餐費用遠遠不足。 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].start |
27381.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].end |
27397.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].text |
好譬如現在營養午餐平均一餐都有50塊可是如果我們這個偏鄉地區他老人有100人可是那個費用沒有彈性也不能專案補助他們的一個人的共餐費用降到18.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].start |
27398.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].end |
27409.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].text |
這個真的是非常非常對不合理所以本席希望能夠有針對偏鄉來專案補助特別是我們也發現在我們衛福部的4916個關懷據點中 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].start |
27430.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].end |
27430.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].text |
休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].start |
28070.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].end |
28071.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].text |
謝謝主席。有請衛福部邱太元部長。麻煩請衛福部備詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].start |
28104.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].end |
28117.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].text |
委員好部長好部長我們社會救助法準備要來修法可是衛福部的這個版本被公民團體打了不及格的這個分數也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].start |
28119.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].end |
28136.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].text |
這跟民間的期待其實有很大的落差。 現在這個社救盟甚至是用9個沒有來抨擊衛福部的草案。 拿9個沒有,例如第一個虛擬收入沒有廢除。 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].start |
28137.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].end |
28156.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].text |
第二、家戶合計沒有放寬。 第三、就業支持沒有變化。 第四、貧窮陷阱沒有解除。 再來還有新住民家庭沒有被重視等等。 民團甚至是形容衛福部的草案版本充滿了這個舊價值。 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].start |
28158.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].end |
28176.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].text |
那因為時間的關係本席只針對新住民的部分跟部長來做一個討論我們來看看這釋救法是如何對一些需要救助的新住民造成了哪一些困擾跟困境那針對這個救助法它裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].start |
28180.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].end |
28198.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].text |
有要求,民眾申請低收或是中低收入戶資格的時候,計算財力人口的範圍除了申請人之外,包含配偶跟申請人一親等之直系血親,這個含當的就是說父母親。 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].start |
28199.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].end |
28225.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].text |
也就是說父母親要含在這個財力人口的這個計算範圍那本席在2020年上任之後呢陸陸續續接獲我們新著名朋友陳晴表示在申請低收獲中低收入戶的時候他們會被地方政府的承辦要求必須要提供原國籍父母雙親的戶籍及稅籍資料財稅資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].start |
28228.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].end |
28254.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].text |
那當然我們有知道說絕大部分新住民的雙親其實是居住在外國要跨海取得這些資料其實是非常的困難跟繁瑣而且每一年都要來做申請那當然過去從2011年開始其實內政部就開始有韓式那之後衛福部其實也都有陸陸續續做了韓式也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].start |
28255.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].end |
28278.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].text |
請承辦人員依據《社會救助法》第5條第3項第9款,也就是我們所謂的539條款,如果因其他情形、特殊未履行撫養義務至申請人生活現隱困境,然後請地方的主管機關仿視評估與申請人最佳利益作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].start |
28279.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].end |
28296.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].text |
考量認定已不列入因計算人口為宜可是很可惜的是就像是含釋了這麼多次每一次這些新住民在申請低收費中低收的這個資格的時候呢都會被地方的承辦你設計法第5條第1項 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].start |
28298.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].end |
28318.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].text |
第二款異親等職業血親一定要他們到國外去申請他們父母親的這個財稅資料才有辦法替他們辦理請問部長這個要怎麼處理呢地方的這個解釋自我解釋常常讓這個新住民求助我們請問部長這要怎麼來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].start |
28320.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].end |
28348.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].text |
好 謝謝委員 那我們講社會救治法他修正我現在修法的重點是以經濟安全脫貧自利及社會投資為核心當然我們要擴大照顧弱勢那所以剛剛所以現在目前本來已經在行政院這邊做討論後來發現有很多需要在討論的所以就回到部會來做討論那我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].start |
28349.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].end |
28375.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].text |
這幾...其中有幾個重點在人極合一這個部分也會做更多的處理。我相信...在人極合一這部分會最多...最多...更多的處理。所以...所以那個...所以那個...所以那個...所以那個... 也就是說外國部也認為說自己的版本其實是不好的對不對?你原先提出來的這個其實是有問題的對不對?那沒關係...沒關係我們...那個...委員所提的齁...我想我們現在在研...在研修當中我們會把這樣的困難來解決。 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].start |
28377.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].end |
28399.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].text |
對,因為說實在的為什麼這次的版本會讓民團如此的不以為然,其實說真的很多需要照顧的,需要解套的,其實在這次的設救法裡面我們都沒有看到。那除了新住民剛剛我們所提到就是說要申請國外父母親的這個財稅資料之外呢,那還有要注意一點就是說未入籍新住民。 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].start |
28399.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].end |
28424.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].text |
像這個未入籍的新住民如果他是沒有小孩子的這個監護權他是連這個資格都沒有他連申請的資格都沒有只能夠尋求新住民發展基金的資源的這個協助那如果有小孩子有監護權的話呢就是依照這個社救法第5條第2項向地方政府申請特殊情形個案判定 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].start |
28425.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].end |
28425.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].text |
我想我們一定會來解決這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].start |
28444.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].end |
28469.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].text |
會解決這個問題, 連同這個未入籍的新住民的這個部分, 我們會明確的把它來入法嘛, 因為我們發現說有很多法條可能就是字義不清楚, 所以到了地方的時候呢, 承辦永遠都是以自己的意思來做解讀, 所以在第一線的時候, 這些人就被打掉了, 這需要協助的這些新住民, 弱勢的新住民, 他們就被打掉了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].start |
28469.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].end |
28492.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].text |
所以這個部分的話韓市在韓市十幾年來一再的韓市還是沒有辦法解決,我想部長如果是說這部分已經討論很久了,我就在上一屆的時候就不斷的跟衛福部在討論這個問題,可是呢一直都沒有辦法解決,好不容易現在我們社會救助法要來大修,那是不是也把新住民的這些部分都考量進去呢?部長能夠做到承諾嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[747].start |
28495.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].end |
28521.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].text |
我想如果社會救助法所規定的對象,我們一定要給他最周全、最安全、最方便、最便利的一個...市長你這樣子的講法非常的空洞,我是想說就跟著新住民的這部分我們要如何協助?其實很多需要救助的新住民都排除在我們的法律之外...如果不符合條件,我們一定克服所有的困難去解決嘛,那如果必要需要在法律上有所... |
| transcript.whisperx[748].start |
28523.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].end |
28528.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].text |
所以本期今天跟你提的這些你們都會在這個未來的話因為這個法案這個草案其實大家都這麼的認為說不及格 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].start |
28542.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].end |
28542.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].text |
會加入討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].start |
28566.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].end |
28593.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].text |
各位討論,那像我們新的這個設計法其實大家都希望說有一個新的修正後的版本出來請問我們有時間表嗎?這個會期會有新的版本出來嗎?有很多亮點,我想我們一定有很多亮點,就是說未來會有很多的亮點嗎?是這樣子嗎?對,包括怎麼樣脫貧當然剛剛提到的這個部分的一個只要是對象裡面我們一定 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].start |
28594.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].end |
28621.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].text |
讓他很順暢的得到補助,而且不要造成不方便另外在新的社會救助法的過享裡面也有那種就是有緩衝期,比如說我們3加1你可以去工作,你在工作的時候不會把你的補助取消等4年以後,等你讓他存有一桶金 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].start |
28622.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].end |
28637.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].text |
副長,我們期待,好不好?主要是本席剛才提的問題,我希望說在這次的設計法的修法當中能夠得到解決。那再來還有,希望就是說剛才本席所提的能夠明確入法。再來呢,本席要跟你討論的就是有關這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].start |
28638.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].end |
28638.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].text |
臨時提案委員：完整會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].start |
28657.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].end |
28679.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].text |
可是另外有30萬人呢他是持這個短期跟長期居留呢目前這個新住民有30萬也就是說這30萬人是還沒有入籍的那這30萬的這新住民之所以沒有入我國的國籍除了有個人的意願那也有入籍的年限未到甚至還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].start |
28679.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].end |
28679.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].start |
28710.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].end |
28726.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].text |
臺灣人的配偶,臺灣小孩的爸爸或者是媽媽,他們在臺灣生活、工作、繳稅,履行國民的這個義務,可是他們跟臺灣人一樣,他們會年老,然後會失智、會失能, |
| transcript.whisperx[757].start |
28727.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].end |
28728.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].text |
臨時提案委員：完整會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].start |
28754.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].end |
28755.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].text |
三十萬如果已經取得中華民國國籍大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].start |
28782.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].end |
28793.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].text |
就是不分族群我們一定提供長照服務嘛。 是,現在針對的是另外30萬未入籍的部分。 另外30萬只要他在臺灣基礎,我想我們政府一定給他 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].start |
28795.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].end |
28800.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].text |
有各種方式或利用其他的法律來給他最好的一個法保障嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[761].start |
28800.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].end |
28821.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].text |
其他的法律是怎樣的法律呢?因為這部分易議部長您讓很多新住民其實看到了曙光也讓民團肯定那當然是個一個多月不能只是嘴巴說說而已喔這個還要去做規劃的到底這30萬未涉及的新住民我們有沒有要規劃讓他們就是列入這個長照服務當中請問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].start |
28823.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].end |
28847.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].text |
我想要列入這個長照的體系可能比較知識體大但是他應該享有的醫療關懷者或者是類似就長照這樣的服務我們用醫療大概是沒有問題因為我們有健保可是長照的部分呢長照的部分當初您也說這個部分我們會會會會會盡速研議先跟委員報告現在的進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].start |
28848.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].end |
28871.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].text |
那部長給你一個建議今年我們剛修完了人才專法第21條之一也就是讓年長為臺灣付出與取得永居的外國人才也能享有身心障礙及長照的服務人才專法今年修了那更何況是本席剛剛所提到的這些長年在 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].start |
28871.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].end |
28873.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].text |
我們來演繹所以之後有再認真考慮嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[765].start |
28896.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].end |
28906.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].text |
我想基於我們政府照顧所有的人民的一個立場,不管他的國籍,我相信這個都是應該要去考量。 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].start |
28911.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].end |
28911.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].text |
臨時提案委員：完整會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].start |
28940.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].end |
28967.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].text |
暫最大宗。 可是在上個星期就有報導指出, 因為疫情的關係, 股災、升息或是打房等等政策, 房地合一稅已經連續走跌, 房市下半年開始交易持續是量縮的, 所以本席擔心長照基金的財源收入是否未來將會出現這個缺口, 尤其是前陣子家庭照顧者, |
| transcript.whisperx[768].start |
28968.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].end |
28980.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].text |
總會也提出了警告,2028年長照基金即將要來耗盡,請問部長對未來長照基金這部分呢,我們這裁員,開拓其他的裁員有沒有進一步的規劃? |
| transcript.whisperx[769].start |
28981.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].end |
28998.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].text |
我們要如何來增加這個財源,更何況我們未來可能會把這30萬位涉及的新住民也要納入長照的這個照顧當中,我們要如何維持長照基金的運作呢?報告委員,剛剛今天行打的時候,我們院長有指示,我們會尋求財源。 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].start |
29000.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].end |
29003.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].text |
所以你們會有 行政部門會有信心就是說長照基金會持續維持 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].start |
29033.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].end |
29060.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].text |
謝謝羅美玲委員的質詢,謝謝衛福部邱部長的備詢。接下來請登記第16號,劉建國委員質詢。謝謝主席,有請院長還有邱部長。麻煩請卓院長備詢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].start |
29072.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].end |
29095.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].text |
劉委員好。 院長好。 院長辛苦。 院長跟部長請看這一個報導。 長照杯葛、兵戶、士、士之戶改判12年。 那我想剛剛羅委員特別提到,臺灣已經要進到2025的超高齡這個樣社會。 那進到超高齡社會的最大的一個挑戰,我是從施政的這個角度去看齊。 所以像這個報導,會不會越來越加劇? |
| transcript.whisperx[773].start |
29095.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].end |
29096.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].text |
然後情況會不會越來越複雜? |
| transcript.whisperx[774].start |
29102.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].end |
29118.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].text |
為什麼?因為曾經邱部長跟我當同事的時候,我一直在強調,一個家庭一人失智,全家喪志。那個是很煎熬的,從要去到底是不是失智症,要確診之前,其實就有一段很難理解的過程。 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].start |
29121.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].end |
29149.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].text |
到了他的花瓶的初期到中期到末期坦白講那個整個照顧階段是完全不一樣的一個樣態所以我才會特別從施政角度要來跟院長跟部長做討論那部長再看下面這個資料我們之前這一個臺灣施政協會在2022年推估2026年65歲以上的施政人口會來到36萬那我們衛務部今年已經推估65歲的施政人口已經達到35萬了 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].start |
29150.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].end |
29165.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].text |
然後同時臺灣施政協會在2022年推估施政總人口數2026年是37萬但今年的推估臺灣施政總人口數就已經來到37萬也就是說提早到兩年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].start |
29167.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].end |
29185.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].text |
兩年就到來了,這代表臺灣施政的人口數急劇的在上升當中。然後這個部分我對照一個資料可能要給院長跟部長能夠理解說,這個事情如果我們不加以去做處理的話,可能要付出的社會成本跟代價會更多。 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].start |
29186.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].end |
29212.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].text |
國際施政協會我是在10多年前就跟他們這個執行長那是一個法國人特別到立院來來拜會當時的未婉那時候我當召委然後他們這個相當有權威就在9月21號公布2024全球施政報告其中對臺灣部分參與調查臺灣照顧者對於社區中有足夠的施施者支持的服務認同比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].start |
29212.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].end |
29237.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].text |
才4乘8,不到一半,然後同時一般民眾認同率才有3乘2,很低啦,這是坦白講是不及格的。然後這些數據如果根據施政防治照護政策綱領暨行動方案的2.0,也就是2018到2025的這個執行上,又出現了非常嚴重問題,尤其在去年112年,在院長跟部長都還沒有到任之前,我們是併了70億,結果僅執行42億,執行率6乘1。 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].start |
29242.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].end |
29268.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].text |
那其實這七項裡面可以看到有一項編的特別多,執行特別糟糕請院長跟部長特別關注,因為我的時間有限自己編的,竟然執行率糟糕到這種程度是不是因為這個樣子才能讓這個國際的施政協會在整個調查報告中顯示這樣的數據出來所以我是希望只要這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].start |
29269.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].end |
29297.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].text |
政府對這個施政的預防及照顧沒有做好,真的會讓臺灣付出更大的這樣的一個成本,甚至於照顧的人力跟經費都會持續的一直在往上增加,這個我們一定要因應,所以我在這邊要具體的拜託,為什麼要特別跟院長拜託,施政的3.0,這個行動方案3.0要提早,一定要提早,我相信長照3.0我們總統就已經喊出來了, |
| transcript.whisperx[782].start |
29298.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].end |
29328.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].text |
那施政的照顧現在2.0執行率是這個狀態所以我們應該立即盤整2.0相關的缺失改正然後3.0要即刻上路所以這邊是不是可以具體建議部長可以折承要求因為他這個當時是跨部會的一個行動方案所以是不是請院長跟部長能不能在這一周內訂出這個要嚴厲的3.0的這個工作期程然後盡快的 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].start |
29328.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].end |
29355.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].text |
用缺塊數讓3.0版本可以上路。跟委員報告我想剛剛您那個數字我也非常的震驚只有32的滿意那是不是我們還有機會因為這是今年的預算在執行趕快來看看今年預算在執行過程當中到底出了哪些問題不要在明年重複這樣的問題我想這個檢討必須要先做那至於新的3.0方案衛部是不是手上已經有在研立或是我們盡快來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].start |
29356.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].end |
29379.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].text |
現在總統都一直在講長照3.0嘛那其實上長照3.0是至今還沒有正式要上路喔未來對未來一定要上路嘛對不對但是總統已經在很多公開場合講到長照3.0坦白講我覺得總統是在在擔心啦那甚至也要待快一點嘛所以有時候有時候一個階段一個階段但是我們的應變速度要更快嘛所以這個3.0是不是請院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].start |
29379.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].end |
29385.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].text |
長照3.0我們是有積極在研究那現在手上的是不是最後的定案可能還要有一點時間但是如果這個草案的構想能夠先給委員參考也請委員指教這個是可以的 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].start |
29399.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].end |
29411.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].text |
針對施政這個部分,施政行動方案的3.0,我們現在是2.0嘛,雖然還有一年的時間,但是我覺得可以提早來討論,來修正,來研議,讓3.0可以盡快上路,可以吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[787].start |
29412.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].end |
29432.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].text |
報告委員,我們在這個方案裡面,我們特別在持續加強,跟長照3.0一樣,在長照跟醫療的結合,發展失智精準的照顧,這個就已經有點進階了,我想可以顯示到您所說的3.0,希望能夠擴大跟精準。 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].start |
29433.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].end |
29435.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].text |
臺灣的醫療品質、照護體系是全球有目共睹,但是在偏遠地區 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].start |
29458.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].end |
29468.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].text |
可敬信跟醫療量能,他還是遠不及都會區。 蔡前總統在任內推動優化偏鄉醫療經濟計畫,從2019年到2023年編列是9.5億,但最後僅執行3億,我不曉得這什麼原因。 第二期計畫是2024到2027再編列63.7億,要來提升整體偏鄉的醫療品質,確保偏鄉民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].start |
29482.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].end |
29509.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].text |
叫一樣的保惠要得到一樣同等的照顧我相信這大家都是要積極努力打編這個目標但是我們根據這個全民健康保險的牙醫門診的總額若是鄉鎮的醫療服務提升獎勵計畫有209個鄉鎮市區提出申請那全國對比368個鄉鎮市區我們將近有一半以上缺牙醫一半以上缺牙醫這個情況是 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].start |
29511.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].end |
29533.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].text |
這是非常恐怖啦,院長跟部長在看我圖表二,你可以看到我的母縣口吳鄉跟二輪鄉有將近兩萬五千的人口上下,通通沒有牙醫診所。通通沒有牙醫診所,很久的一段時間一直到現在,我覺得這樣對偏鄉的百姓而言真的是很不公平,不對待啦齁。 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].start |
29533.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].end |
29536.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].text |
那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那...那... |
| transcript.whisperx[793].start |
29563.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].end |
29587.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].text |
那我們這個期程的計畫在第二期2024是今年喔一直到2027喔我們又變了63.7億那院長可以跟部長再看那個細項從幾個單位裡面從幾個單位裡面衛福部的醫事師是在110年度就有執行退會有執行但110年度有相關的在衛福部轄下的各師 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].start |
29588.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].end |
29601.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].text |
可能都沒有辦法去執行,而且114年度的預算是第二次多,到時候這樣的預算被擋的,沒辦法執行。我們要怎麼應應?要怎麼處理? |
| transcript.whisperx[795].start |
29601.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].end |
29601.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].text |
院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].start |
29604.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].end |
29628.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].text |
請委員支持我們還是非常積極的在努力希望透過各種的溝通方式也提出不同的折衷的方法希望能夠在大院草野協商能夠獲得圓滿的進展這個也非常謝謝韓院長一直在主持這樣的協商會議我們希望能夠有會獲得好的一個結果跟發展我覺得院長很努力這個我都很清楚但是現在面對到這個問題對不對都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].start |
29631.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].end |
29632.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].text |
我認為不至於啦我們還在努力我認為不至於 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].start |
29651.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].end |
29675.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].text |
院長你答應我不至於喔OK好那我們就看114年度他的第二期他的第二期是要如期來實施喔好謝謝院長好那第三題是這樣這個少子化我相信院長也非常在意跟部長也非常在意嘛齁那這是一個國安問題到了院長你今年要面對到一個藍體今年是龍年 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].start |
29676.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].end |
29689.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].text |
像台灣的在整個這樣的一個習慣裡面,跟生孩子的狀態,農業是生的最多的時候。但院長你可以看,現在很糟糕,105年是15萬,111年是13.8萬,112年是13.5萬,那今年113年,又剛好院長來當院長,怎麼辦?他有可能沒有辦法破13萬。 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].start |
29698.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].end |
29724.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].text |
為什麼這麼說?我們現在最樂觀的估計是13.2是13.2 最樂觀的估計到9月底是97733這數字很恐怖啊高拐啦 氣燦燦啦我們剩下兩個月初而已喔我們要再有3200多個新生兒才有辦法13萬不是13.2萬喔所以能夠通緯 院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].start |
29728.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].end |
29736.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].text |
我不曉得你怎麼這麼有信心可以來到13.2萬這是我們國發會在人口政策報告當中一個比較樂觀的 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].start |
29738.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].end |
29755.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].text |
分析跟預估其實現在到年底之前我也不可能把這個數字再做什麼樣的努力我們都沒有辦法我們希望明年我們能夠維持住這樣的數字然後再慢慢的設法來提升很多面向都要處理不是從單一個面向去做處理就可以讓這個聲譽提高我這邊有一個因為時間的關係給院長跟部長做一個參考他們目前是晚婚晚生 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].start |
29766.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].end |
29769.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].text |
現在有幾個地方政府,台北、桃園、新竹、苗栗開始有在補助這個動亂。 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].start |
29777.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].end |
29804.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].text |
國務部現在在研議醫療性的動亂服務我們要讓年輕的癌症病友在他整個治療過程不影響的情況之下萬一有這個機會可以有這個機會身體比較恢復健康他還保有生育的這個機會那我要這具體要求部長是不是擴大一點這樣的動亂的服務的門開大一點有些女性的好花的重大疾病應該都可以列入在這個參考範圍裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].start |
29806.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].end |
29835.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].text |
那動亂的服務是差不多10到15萬左右還不包含他未來這個保存的這個經費那地方政府現在已經在實施的坦白講國安的少數話就國安問題嘛國安問題是中央要承擔起來那地方要把它列作地方知識事項當然我們樂觀其成不過因為補助沒有到位這幾個縣市我們去做調查相關的補助申請幾乎是零啦幾乎是零 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].start |
29836.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].end |
29852.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].text |
10到15萬地方政府補助3萬這麼大的一個距離落差我要請院長是不是可以思考因為國安的問題就是我們中央必須要承擔起來那衛生部也有在研議是不是可以更擴大的一個範圍然後院長來支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].start |
29853.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].end |
29853.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].start |
29878.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].end |
29890.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].text |
就請一個月能不能把這個經會還有原意相關的辦法可以提出來。好的,沒問題。這個是很有意義的事情。好,謝謝。最後一題,剩下一分多充。 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].start |
29893.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].end |
29913.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].text |
賴總統一直在強調,民進黨是以照顧弱勢的族群起來的一個政黨,所以越弱勢我們更應該越照顧,更應該越注意。給院長跟部長看這個,根據衛福部112年度的低收跟中低收入戶的生活狀況調查報告,112年中低收入戶既有106609戶,較107年是減少了2448戶,但低收卻是 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].start |
29922.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].end |
29924.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].text |
在144292戶較107也是增加281戶所以減少2448戶的中低收入戶是脫貧了還是變為低收入戶這個部長知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].start |
29940.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].end |
29961.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].text |
部長不清楚這個要做交叉比對啦齁我現在目的要提供給部長跟院長做參考為什麼這邊會增加這麼多這邊會減少這麼多到底是什麼狀況我這邊有相關的一些報告這些低收跟中低收拖困的方法以政府提高補助他們覺得比較好的方法是還是政府提高補助33.41啦齁判執理長大就業是17.68不知用何種方法是22.73好現在問題來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].start |
29969.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].end |
29976.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].text |
如果一再的用經費去做補助,我相信政府可能在處理上會有一些知識節節問題。 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].start |
30032.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].end |
30052.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].text |
好,謝謝,謝謝,謝謝劉建國委員的質詢,謝謝卓院長及部會所長的備詢,謝謝。 抱怨會﹖本會期至9月20日起﹖對行政院院長施政報告進行質詢,已於今天詢答完畢。 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].start |
30054.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].end |
30080.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].text |
謝謝卓院長及各部會列席的首長列席答詢在質詢結束前我們再請卓院長對立法院同仁及國人同胞發表感言主席各位委員先進 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].start |
30081.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].end |
30102.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].text |
大院第11屆第2會期對本院施政報告的總諮詢在今天圓滿的結束。 要特別向韓院長、江副院長及各位委員先進表達最大的感謝。 在此期間,諸多委員對行政院提出非常多的建言。 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].start |
30103.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].end |
30130.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].text |
無論從各方面來看,都是未來國家要繼續推動進步,行政院要繼續改革,甚至我們在捍衛國家主權、國家安全上所必要的正確方向。 行政院一定會審慎的研議、參酌,未來適度的把它落實在相關的政策方面。 國家的政策需要有正向的推動力量。 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].start |
30131.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].end |
30160.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].text |
總預算的問題更需要大家集思廣益共同來解決。 行政院已經提出了折衷的方案,我們希望基於互相的尊重, 基於立法行政兩院互相尊重預算權以及審議權的這種兩相平衡之下, 我們願意希望大家共同遵守憲法70條的憲政原理精神, |
| transcript.whisperx[818].start |
30161.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].end |
30187.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].text |
預算法91條裡面的原則規定跟它的必要程序將來成為我們在審查預算法案相關的時候成為我們共同而且是唯一的遵守憲法遵守法令的限制這個我們願意希望能夠在這個原則底下一定可以找到共同解決的方式隨著這個總諮詢的結束 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].start |
30189.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].end |
30215.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].text |
大院也將進入到法案審查的階段。 針對下週邀請行政院來進行能源配比以及電價政策的專案報告,我已經要求相關部會整理、詳盡、完善的一個報告向大院來提出。 我更期待下週開始,我們真的能夠緊速的進入到審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].start |
30217.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].end |
30244.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].text |
明年度中央政府總預算前瞻基礎建設第5期特別預算以及追加預算還有勞動部組織法以及通常會委員的人事同意權等等的 攸關我國未來發展的重大法案最後要再次的表示感謝謝謝立法委員各位先進也謝謝立法院各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].start |
30245.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].end |
30271.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].text |
工作同仁,更謝謝韓院長、江副院長在這期中的辛勞。 我也希望接下來的朝野協商能夠順利而圓滿地展開而取得大家共同可以接受的結果。 我充滿了信心,也我有充滿信心國家才能往後走。 我相信政治是為人民解決問題,是為國家帶來進步跟發展。 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].start |
30275.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].end |
30293.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].text |
還是那句話只有團結的臺灣才是最好的臺灣謝謝大家祝大家身體健康萬事如意兩院互動非常的順利謝謝各位謝謝卓院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].start |
30295.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].end |
30306.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].text |
的感言,現在我們做以下決定。一、將各委員發言記錄及書面答詢函送行政院,請就未答覆部分予以書面答覆。 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].start |
30306.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].end |
30331.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].text |
二、已提出之書面質詢尚未刊登公報者一律補刊。 現在我們繼續處理復議案。本院民進黨黨團針對第4次會議報告事項第9案、第16、17、18案之決定提出復議請公決案。 現做以下決定,另定其處理。 報院會本次會議進行到此為止。 現在散會。 |
| IVOD_ID |
16190 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16190 |
| 日期 |
2024-10-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-2-5 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期第5次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-10-22T08:30:18+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-10-22T16:56:00+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |