| video_url |
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| 會議時間 |
2024-10-18T12:10:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第129屆經費稽核委員會第3次會議（事由：一、選舉召集委員
二、宣讀上次會議議事錄
三、報告本院113年度預算執行情形（截至113年9月止）） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 影片長度 |
3960 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:55:00 - 13:01:00 |
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主席 |
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80.944 |
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81.745 |
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主席 |
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120.909 |
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121.695 |
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主席 |
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204.045 |
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205.193 |
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主席 |
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263.933 |
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264.923 |
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響鐘 |
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1023.982 |
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主席 |
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1799.442 |
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主席 |
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報告委員會初席委員已足法定人數請初席委員推舉臨時會議主席 |
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1957.694 |
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1965.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
謝謝秘書長謝謝我們立法院的各位同仁還有我們在現場的委員麻煩要提供一個名稱還有誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1994.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2016.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
好 謝謝那本席首先先跟大家介紹一下那個已經到場的委員齁那徐以貞委員陳一貞委員王美惠委員張雅琳委員張委員剛在齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2021.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2022.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
張雅玲委員：沈博洋委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2050.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2051.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
翁曉琳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2063.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2073.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
主席在這裡宣布我們今天開會的議程最主要是要選舉召集委員本129屆經費稽核委員會一、立法院經費稽核委員會組織章程規定第4條 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2081.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2101.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
本會會期應該選召集委員三人依照慣例是委員互推那我們就決定召集委員輪值的一個辦法跟順序那依序是哪一位委員然後接序是哪一位委員第三才是哪一位委員那請先讀上一次會議議事記錄不好意思又客串的 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2110.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2121.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
現在我們希望互推每一個政黨都是推一席我們先請國民黨你們互推一席徐宜貞委員接下來就是民眾黨代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2139.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2140.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
民進黨委員在互推一席 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2167.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2193.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我不能連任所以我推那個沈伯陽委員不曉得那個就是好 謝謝是好那請三位委員三位委員就是我們的沈伯陽委員還有徐一貞委員還有張熙楷委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2195.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2215.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那張熙蓋委員不在現場是不是徐一貞委員跟沈博洋委員你們兩個就是互推就是說順序就是那個輪值的順序就是在下一次的會議是由這一次的會議開始了就由你們那個哪一位來主持你們兩位 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2219.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2236.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
好,那就是沈博洋委員那接續就是徐宇貞委員那第三是張錫楷委員好那接下來那你唸完就換我唸好,沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2248.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2250.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
好謝謝大家那請宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第129屆經費稽核委員會第二次會議議事錄時間113年6月21日星期五中午12時10分至13時26分地點本院群閑樓101會議室 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2271.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2290.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
初席委員翁曉琳委員等6人請假委員徐宇貞委員等3人列席人員張副秘書長玉榮等14人祥千道部主席賴會員委員紀錄黃秋彥一、報告事項一、宣讀上次會議議事錄決定一、議事錄確定二、 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2290.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2311.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
一、民主進部黨立法院黨團113年5月30日來函推派賴慧如委員擔任第129屆上半年會期經費稽核委員會召集委員二、本院113年度預算執行情形報告截至113年5月止決定準與被查二、 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2314.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2324.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
臨時動議．張雅琳委員提．立法院院會開會時．並未配置簡報筆．不利委員自行操作之需求．建請徵購院會問政所需配備．決議請資訊處及總務處嚴處．二． |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2329.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2344.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
本院導覽只有一種簡報模式為考量學生及兒童參觀立法院之需求建議應提供適合兒童理解是簡報版本及士林相關介紹的文宣介紹品 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2346.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2363.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
決議請秘書處嚴處三、現為AI數位時代委本院提供給委員的資訊工具的選擇未能跟上潮流建議考量提供雲端儲存空間遠距工作的工具如Notion等以符合委員問證需求決議請資訊處嚴處二、 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2367.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2395.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
翁曉琳委員提一、立法院目前有關公費助理均以專職專任聘用似乎不落學校的靈活運用請研議未來是否在委員公費助理人事費用的額度內可以聘請專兼任或是部分工時的助理人員使得人員的聘用更具有彈性決議請人事處研議並於一個月內提出報告給本院委員本會委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2396.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2420.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
二、現在已進入AI時代（立法院AI數位環境部分是不足的建議未來因編列AI導入訓練費用研發AI智慧宣讀法案做文字記錄並進行智慧國會研究案從技術與管理層面思考如何提升相關數位環境讓立法院成為智慧的國會決議請資訊處及議事處研議於下次會議提出計劃案 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2424.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2440.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
三、目前只有委員會舉辦的公聽會邀請專家學者才可以支領出席費而立法委員問政或研擬法案也是需要邀請專家學者提供諮詢及建議為協助委員問政需求請研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2442.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2468.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
委員如邀請專家學者就法案諮詢等事項在一定額度內致領出息費之可行性決議請主計處研議三、賴會委員提中興大樓電梯近期異常狀況頻傳也發生委員被困的情形為避免引起恐慌請總務處將目前電梯現有的狀況資料完整提供給中興大樓及本會委員參考決議照案通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2471.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2492.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
四、內會委員．張其楷委員．歐小林委員提為顧及所有搭乘中心大樓電梯人員安全需徹底解決電梯易礦頻傳的問題請儘速評估電梯內部新舊整合需要多少時間或者考量全面更新並研擬最妥適的解決方案決議請總務處嚴處宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2498.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2507.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
好 那請問各位委員有沒有錯誤或遺漏之處吳小林委員請現在還在確定還在確定議事錄對 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2512.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2515.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
議事錄沒問題的話議事錄確定齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2540.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2540.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
請主席處的許處長進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2562.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2582.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
主席各位委員大家好以下緊就立法院113年度截至9月份指預算執行情形報告本院為國家最高立法機關為持續推展任務各項經費收支均因實際需要按相關規定核實辦理以有效支援委員議案審查工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2583.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2593.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
有關113年度截至9月份指（預算執行情形（請強附表一蓋礦表附表二明細表緊究稅率類經費類項目重點內容說明如後一稅率類113年度稅率類預算共編列10713000元截至9月份指累計分配數10295000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2607.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2607.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
二、經費類（ |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2622.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2627.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
113年度經費類．區分一般行政．委員問政業務等9個業務計劃共編列預算36億4713萬3000元截至9月份指累計分配數26億8247萬6000元累計實質數24億5198萬5000元執行率91.41%主要區分下列三大項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2648.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2668.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
一、委員問政專項經費本項目包括委員稅費及公費公費助理、國會交流事務委員會館、問政相關業務及黨團補助等6個工作計畫項目共編列委員、問政及選民服務等相關經費14億6935萬9千元截至9月份止累計分配數11億4089萬7千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2675.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2704.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
累計實質數十億七千七百九十六萬六千元執行率百分之九十四點四八主要包括委員稅供費及選民服務費供費助理籌集及加班費等人事費九億三千三百八十八萬元委員研究室住宿會館水電通訊費團體保險辦公室務費交通費及國會交流等業務費一億三千三百九十四萬六千元黨團補助費一千零一十四萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2705.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2722.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
二、議事行政支援經費本項目包括一般行政、議事業務、立法諮詢業務、國會圖書業務、公報業務及第一未經等6個工作計劃項目共編列議事行政支援及職工人員維持等相關經費19亿9512萬4千元截至9月份止累計分配數14亿8610萬5千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2730.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2744.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
累計實質數13億7124萬2千元執行率92.27%主要包括職工信奉保險及退休租金等人事費9億9890萬5千元面區水電通訊費資訊服務費辦公房舍及公務車輛養護國會頻道委託轉播等業務費3億4255萬8千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2755.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2776.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
土書資料庫購置等設備費2828萬6千元退休職工三節慰問金及年節特別照護金等獎補助費149萬3千元三、一般建築及設備經費本項目包括營建工程、交通及運輸設備及其他設備等三個工作計劃項目共編列1億8265萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2779.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2794.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
包括本院委員住宿會館整修委員公務用車輛汰換各項資訊應用系統開發及軟硬體設備構置汰換數位影音儲存資料庫及數位印刷機等案截至9月份止累計分配數5547萬4千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2798.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2806.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
累計實質數277萬7千元執行率5.01%主要系113年度會議設錄影設備更新案等兩案已完成驗收課證辦理後續相關請款作業另113年度會議錄影數位影音儲存系統擴充案等案正積極辦理中致影響預算執行進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2822.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2839.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
三、節育以上系本院113年度截至9月份執至預算執行情形（均依業務實際需要及規定程序本準節原則何時檢討辦理整體預算執行上稱正常緊究重點內容而要報告敬請指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2860.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2863.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
那先請問在場委員對於剛剛這一個許處長竟將報告這個預算執行的情形報告有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2878.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2886.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
沒有的話那我們決定立法院113年度截至9月份為止的預算執行報告準予被查然後接下來我們就進入臨時動議請問對 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2892.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2909.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
在臨時動議可以因為他有一個表格是之前對你上一次臨時動議的回覆那對於這些回覆有再進一步的意見就現在都可以提是好我想要針對我上次在開會的時候我有提案對於這個立法院是不是可以延聘專接讓還有部分工時人員那這個相關的承辦處事 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2914.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2935.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
已經有做回覆其實當時有到我辦公室來跟我報告可是我還是認為說是不是可以研議一個修法的方案畢竟我們立法委員我們是聘的是公費助理也是利用立法院裡面的資源事實上的確是有需要有彈性 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2937.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2937.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
委員會委員會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2958.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2959.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
立法院的公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2986.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2999.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
在網頁上面沒有一個徵才公告的藍位我們現在聘請立法委員的公費助理都必須要自己花錢去刊登什麼104或11人力銀行但是其實很多的機關他們基本上都會有設置一個本機關的徵才啟示 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3008.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3008.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
好 謝謝那其實是兩件那我們先請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3040.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3056.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
好 因為剛剛是在前面的那個時候要介紹不過我們先介紹一下我覺得這個也是我們補助一下程序好那我們介紹一下本院這個周秘書長 萬來大家都認識然後我們的張副秘書長玉榮他請教有黃顧問代理有這個黃泉忠顧問代理 謝謝然後我們秘書處的孔處長秉潔 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3071.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3080.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
謝謝我們的國際事務處林處長陳副義事處高處主百祥公報處的蘇處長顯新總務處廖處長窘智資訊處鄭處長回賓法治局郭局長明正預算中心黃主任曹金 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3099.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3127.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
國會圖書館林館長瑞文中南部中心邱主任俊隆益政博物館嚴館長乙亮人事處的黃處長瑞月還有剛剛大家都已經聽到的主計處的許處長靜江那剛剛因為等於是有兩個臨時動議那第一個部分還是跟這一個人事處有關所以我們是不是請黃處長瑞月先做一個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3130.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3132.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
他的兩個結束以後他還有一個統一徵財公告那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3143.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3168.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
各位委員 民主黨 大家午安有關翁曉琳 翁委員提出來這個案子我們上一次也依照那個決議提了書面報告給本會的委員當然如同委員剛剛所提到的這是一個比較彈性的做法因為本院雖然組織法沒有明定一定要專職專任來任用可是我們歷年來都是用專職跟專任來任用 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3170.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3184.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
在回應那個法院跟檢調單位有關助理費用的那個爭議相關爭議的時候我們也都是以專職專任來回復這樣委員那如果說要把它修訂比較彈性的那是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3185.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3205.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
會有一些問題那當然是不是說我們可以參酌那個就是地方民意代表那個資給費用的補助條例第6條的規定他們在今年有修法就把它那個日新制明定在那個條文裡面那這樣也要委員達成共識啊那有修相關的法案那我們當然就會依照配合來辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3209.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3212.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
法治局也說明一下看這個要怎麼解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3242.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3243.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
有關這個提案的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3248.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3269.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
在立法院大概20幾年有關這個內規的提案通常都是由各黨團提案然後因為這個是簽到全院委員聘請公會助理的業務的事情這個通常都是由各黨團有公視各黨團提案然後由院長來照理一下因為這個簽到各個委員他聘請公會助理要不要彈性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3271.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3271.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3294.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3316.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
委員聘請公會助理我們一開始人事局會跟委員報告委員就是這個公會助理的雇主我們法治局有研究德國的立法律有研究日本的立法律有研究美國的立法律我們這個公會助理的制度是承襲美國公會助理的制度可是當我們再去看的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3317.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3340.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
美國的眾議院德國的眾議員他們在聘請公衛助理的時候他們很少去簽那個招因為公衛助理然後聘請公衛助理的問題然後那些眾議員被因為涉貪賭的事情然後被起訴他的根本原因是在哪裡是在美國的德國的刑法他明文規定說中央級的民意代表這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3341.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3369.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
委員、眾議員他不屬於他們德國刑法的公務員的定義範圍這個是一個根本要解決的問題如果說沒有這樣子做一個徹底的解決的話我想每個委員都會有親身到說像美國眾議員他只做一個規定不能聘請三星等範圍之內的親屬當助理可是我們台灣的立法院沒有這樣子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3371.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3378.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
根本性的問題我是覺得要針對新法第10條公務員的定義來做 因為我們新法第10條在94年 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3381.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3404.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
修正之後就沒有那個可是我覺得把立法院把它說定義是公務員的定義限制在公務員的定義這個造成將來的所有的那個立法院會不自覺你聘請自己的老婆自己的小孩自己的三親等的話就會被剪掉這個是很不合理的在此這樣建議說 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3406.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3431.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
主要彈性醫療 我是建議說 這個是不是要修新法定案我們有做一份報告 我試一下再給各位做參考 這樣可不可以好 謝謝法局的說明我有一個問題想請教那個法制局長 所以就是說麻煩請那個局長之後可以將你們的研修報告也送一份給我們然後另外一個部分 我剛剛本來是要講什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3434.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3461.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
統一增產公告嗎?還是同一件事?統一增產公告還沒有回你的意思就是說反正我們不是決議說一算我們要去提案修法修兩個一個立法院組織法嘛公費助理也可以用那個就是說part-time的這種部分工時的嘛比較彈性有時候會用到部分工時然後第二個就是公務員的那個定義那個就這兩個那個就是各黨團自己的對對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3463.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3487.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
我剛想到的地方就是說因為剛剛是處長還有局長這邊講說我們立法委員好像形式上像是公費助理的雇主但是事實上在我們現在公務預算上面來講我們並不是啊我們雇主還是以立法院為主我們每個立法委員我們又不能夠開統編 可以嗎不是不是 就是助理 那個立法委員就是公費助理的雇主 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3488.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3511.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
立法委員就是公費助理的僱主那所以理論上全應該全部都要進我們的進我們這裡我們再發可是事實上現在並不是這樣啊對我們跟那個地方不太一樣是後來像那個我們就幫委員辦理我們還是編列一定的預算給委員那請問所以我們每個立法委員理論上都應該有一個僱主編號譬如說是像是什麼事業單位有嗎我們有統編嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3513.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3537.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
現在就不要講說回歸到地方議會而是就現行的法規來講我們就不是雇主你們概念上認為我們是雇主可是實際上我們就不是雇主啊我們所有的薪水都是由你們去付是是這個請秘書長說明秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3540.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3561.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
那個三十二條規定是很清楚啦因為這個背景當時是在八十二年前是全部是由聯事室來作業啦那當時是恰好是有些助理比如說那時候張俊雄委員的助理那個大概七條委員大概知道在劉聰偉院長的辦公室外面啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3561.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3588.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
買一鍋召喚在抗議所以後來就改成這一個在88年就改成這個條文那就固執就是由委員來聘用那從82年當時開始那時候秘書長是社生戶他就把它切了但是沒有法制的當時還沒有立這個法所以在無法修的時候就變成32條所以這為什麼這固執的概念是由你聘用的不是由立法院來聘用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3589.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3603.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
這個概念在這個地方所以你的僱主是立法委員公衛助理的職主就是立法委員所以就變成說你的名單報到聯事處來聯事處幫你做一些行政作業而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3603.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3629.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
不是立法院來聘說你要哪一個助理我立法院派給你 不是所以要從三兆條那個精神去看那固執當然是立法委員是這樣來看所以可能公園人家看三兆條可能在實際的在我是把當時的整個背景來說明因為這邊當時是在民國八十二年是抗爭的包括馬永成那學弟馬永成也在那邊抗爭阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3630.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3652.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
如果說是按照秘書長的說法的話我建議是不是以後我們每個委員就有一個自己的預算書就是要分別因為我們現在所有的助理的費用不是都是編載立法院的統一的預算他也不是所以從外觀上面來看大家會認為立法院是雇主而不是立法委員個人是雇主如果我們是雇主的話我們當然有很大的彈性 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3656.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3682.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
現在我們等於是只是有這個彈性自由空間我們可以自己去聘公費助理但形式上還是立法院給的薪水然後我們勞健保各方面都是立法院做你們不能那個概念說我們只是服務立法委員一些行政作業在整個公務預算上面來講小林委員的意思就是說要讓他比較法治化應該是正面的思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3684.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3684.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
主席主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3698.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3720.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
委員好不好意思跟委員報告一下其實每個委員他就是公費助理的雇主是沒有問題只是說委員你有這樣子的疑惑嘛但其實最以前的狀態其實就是您剛剛說的那樣沒錯就是應該要每一個委員他是一個勞健保字號然後各自去承辦但是我們之前225位委員太多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3721.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3721.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
委員﹚ |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3738.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3761.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
辛苦就是因為每個辦公室都要去做這些勞健保的事務的時候是非常麻煩的所以統一由立法院幫大家辦理但是委員還是他有自由聘用人的權益所以其實那個聘書是委員跟公費助理簽的並不是助理跟立法院簽的所以委員您可以看一下其實您在聘用助理的時候都是有跟助理簽聘用契約的 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3762.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3788.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
所以其實是他並不是跟立法院簽契約的這樣子那至於說為什麼說就是由立法院統一辦理其實這是很久以前演變過來的過程就是說如果東西都給每個委員承辦的時候其實是造成委員辦公室很大的負擔所以才轉由立法院幫大家統一辦理這樣然後還有第二件事情是委員您剛剛說就是其實錢應該要統一給委員去做發放其實一開始也是這樣子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3789.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3804.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
就是我們在很久以前就是公費助理的薪水錢是給委員在由委員去發放的但是就有很多弊案就是發生非常多就是用人頭啊或是什麼爭議所以才變成說我們直接匯到助體的戶頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3806.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3817.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
但是那個直接化住的戶頭也是經由委員同意的就是委員會告訴我們說每個人是多少錢我們依照委員給我們的資料才去發給下面的所以其實這個主導權也還是在委員身上的 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3821.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3836.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
因為我自己過去我在勞動部訴願會我擔任很多年的委員如果說是從雇主的定義來看的話你們剛剛說除了立法委員是雇主之外我認為從勞基法的角度來講立法院是雇主的責任也跑不掉喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3837.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3840.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
有重屬性,金錢是你們發的所以我認為這個事情其實是要徹底解決如果說按照你們剛剛的說法立法委員就是立法委員助理的雇主那我們當然有很大的彈性然後我們可以聘臨時人員聘兼職人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3854.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3855.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
謝謝王委員 民主黨說要補充一下 我想說再補充一下脈絡 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3877.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3899.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
當然再整個讓公委瞭解一下你那個助理的加班會還是由你報來的我這樣再補充一下不是立法院給你的加班會是還是由你報來他們才在撥給你所以為什麼現在剛才法術局長一直在強調的原因是花生問題藏在哪個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3900.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3919.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
市長,因為我在院裡已經發生過太多了,太多事,包括現在的高原的事都還要有這個問題在。那原因在哪裡?就因為固執在你,所以會有這個爭端,所以才剛才法制局長才會提出他的想法給各位做參考啦。 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3920.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3932.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
那如果說以剛才你所提的僱主以加班會然後我們的312條規定還是由立法委員從那邊報來我們聯思處才作業而已並不是說聯思處來幫你做這個加班會的問題是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3936.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3956.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
小林委員的意思就是說讓他回歸到正常的法制化因為這閉端呢就是不管怎麼樣都有可能有閉端這個制度跟那個制度都有可能發生他還是指法制化那因為主席應該是結論就是請他們要他們有做報告嘛那延期的報告送到大家看一下阿如果我們委員會要修法我們就自己大家就來提案修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3956.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3958.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
主計處有需要嗎?有沒有想要多補充一點?科目的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3978.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4001.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
報告主席各位委員有關那個預算的部分因為立法院也是屬於中央政府各機關的其中一員所以我們是編單位預算所以剛剛委員有提到說是不是每個委員都有一本預算的話就我們目前的情形來講我們還是要以立法院這個單位去編列相關的預算然後依照也是中央政府各機關在預算編制的各項的標準或者是一些規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4002.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4009.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
然後統一編列以後才會有行政院那邊來彙製成中央政府總預算案以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4026.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4051.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
主席委員有關那個徵材的部分的話目前的話是各個委員的話是在自己的全球資訊網的網頁去PO那個訊息沒有統一的會診如果說委員中的需求的話我們倒是可以去做一個版情的設計也是各委員自己來登打然後我們統一會診在全球資訊網這邊來公告整個會後我們再去研議整個做法的話來開發相關的程式以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4054.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4059.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
我首先要表揚總務處小智廖處長我在颱風天的時候到立法院來工作還看到他在巡視我們的院區颱風風雨交加的時候很認真這先表揚一下第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4083.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4105.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
對阿 做得好我們講喔那第二個第二個我看到桌上有一份這個委員用車時數這個齁我覺得這個齁這是之前的這個那時候有通過我覺得這東西不要公告這次當然是吳佩玉委員雖然是不同黨派但是因為每位委員齁像台北市的委員或是其他選秀用的時間不一定是怎麼樣我反而是覺得說 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4106.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4121.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
總務處 這是應該是總務處的嘛是應該去檢討一下在以我們現在的車跟人的情況下比如說可能進的選區委員他可能覺得他自己車比較方便遠的選區委員可能需要的就會比較多中南部也都情況不一樣第一個我是提議這個以後就不要再公告了 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4122.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4133.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
像今天的午會這個就不要公告因為這個我們可以決議這以前我當過稽核委員那第二個部分就是說是不是統計一下這個時數是對委員來講比如說可能有時候這個月忙那個月不忙你們在調度上面有沒有可能不是說用每個月或是用兩個月或是怎麼樣你在人事車人的調度上再符合勞基法又可以的話時間上怎麼樣彈性可以讓大家來做調整比如說有時候這個月很忙比如像七、八月可能就很不忙但因為你們還有人的 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4150.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4151.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
整個檢討一下齁 你檢討一下你們的人和車夠不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4176.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4185.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
那關於公告這一個齁 因為這個以前也是因為有 也是在這邊然後因為是委員說要公告所以才會變成所以我現在是提議我們決議嘛齁那這件事情比較簡單 等一下討論就好但是是不是先請總務處說明剛剛陳昀正委員的這個提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4194.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4224.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
主席各位委員謝謝委員的提問那這個關於派車時數是因為本院有113位委員但是我們平常只有51部車而且扣掉5部車要備請因此一天能派車的台數只有46台那因為委員的用車的這個頻率大部分都蠻頻繁那受限於這些我們的駕駛同仁他的勞基法的加班上限所以有一個公式算出來之後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4224.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4249.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
大概用80小時當過去的約定數但是實際上可能會因為這個時數調整有差我們其實對於委員的時數並沒有用車時數的限制所以當我們有時數有額度同仁還有加班額度的話我們都會盡量配合委員的需求所以沒有時數限制的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4249.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4272.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
有沒有週休二日只能派一天的限制另外週休二日是因為在假日我們的駕駛同仁上班他有一例一休的加班上限問題所以我們透過內規過去就有規定過因為如果我們六日都開放委員同時都可以申請那我們的駕駛人員是不夠因應大家的派車的 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4273.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4300.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
我覺得是這樣子你回去算一下現在也已經這麼多年了比如說像我知道很多臺北市選區的文他們自己新北雙北有時候他們根本都都不需要用車子那自己也有車子在他們的選區自己跑嘛有很多這樣的事情所以你還是按照去年已經好多年來的看到底的情形是怎麼樣有沒有可能這些內規有一些內規的這個改變還是先讓你們回去研究嘛看實際上怎麼樣是要比較有彈性嘛那大家也比較方便 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4301.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4329.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
那這個東西我覺得公告這個東西是有點比較侮辱委員這委員這個也不會故意要去那個 對不對所有這種以後就不要公告了那這個沒有問題如果大家沒有什麼意見的話我們之後就不再公告這一個那剛剛七開委員你是新的案子還是還是同一件事對對我也贊成以後就不要公告了你像吳佩儀吳委員就這個剛好這兩個也有重要事情嘛我建議以後就確實不要不要再公告了好不好好這個取消那另外我比較注重的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4330.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4355.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
等一下,是同一件事情嘛,因為等一下楊林文有一個提案首先我還是要表揚一下我們的秘書處啦因為上次我看到有非常多的小孩來參加參觀立法院可是我們之前的一些介紹對於小孩來說並不是那麼友善那所以後來這個秘書處有討論一個新的版本而且他們其實有辦了一些導覽講座去觀摩學習所以我覺得這個部分是要肯定一下秘書處啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4359.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4379.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
謝謝 謝謝針對兒少的面向讓他們可以更能夠理解國會到底在怎麼運作這樣那不過有一個新增提案啊最主要就是說因為其實也會有一些無障輪椅的使用者他們會來到立法院然後他們在參觀這個動線上面最主要就是會從立法院的大門口中山南路進來然後後來他們就會去檢報室看影片然後去參觀議場 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4380.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4394.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
我發現我們的檢報室門口還是有一個高低差所以變成是說在可是我們的無障礙廁所裡面其實是可以做一個小斜坡所以我在說我們是不是在檢報室前面那個路口也可以做一個小斜坡讓他們比較好進入因為那是他們行經的動線嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4395.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4425.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
那第二個部分就是說因為在議場的部分我們現在是沒有這個電梯嘛所以他必須使用這個升降梯可是其實我們都會請民眾上二樓那就變成說如果有比較多的這個無障礙使用者要使用這個的時候這個時間因為我們可能安排導覽時間只有5到10分鐘可是他光排隊這個時間可能就會讓他來不及去看到所以是不是可以針對他們在如果有這些無障礙使用者來的時候我們是不是在這個流程上在二樓的時間停留上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4425.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4426.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
可以來做一些延長對 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4439.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4445.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
謝謝委員謝謝張委員的提案那因為委員關心這個議題我們也十分重視那特別我們昨天也全院也去巡過一次針對各項使用者的需求那我們除了也張貼各種公告之外那委員所提的幾個地方我們會再研議除此之外也會進行全院再次的盤點那針對這個很多地方我們還會提供彈性就是活動式的生匠坡道 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4469.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4479.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
議員． |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4481.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4506.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
既然會全面一起檢視的時候那我在想說我們是不是可以在無障礙廁所裡面如果有空間的話是不是可以增加一個照護床因為他們有一些比較長有些小孩雖然長大身體長大了但是他們其實沒有辦法自理的他也是需要換尿布那當然換尿布的話用嬰兒的這個換尿布台其實對他們來說太小了所以如果有空間的話我們還是希望是不是可以爭取一個照護床來給他們做更換謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4507.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4507.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4539.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4563.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
我理解那個可能經費上面那我只是說如果在我們經費還沒有到位之前我們把時間延長因為我們現在如果這5到10分鐘他在排隊他根本來不及上去然後他可能上去他就下來了對對對是好 這個我們配合辦理是那停留時間的部分那就不用再說明就是像剛剛講的這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4564.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4567.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
謝謝委員再來請旗開委員因為快一點我簡單提不見得要馬上解決好不好就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4575.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4598.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
事實上那個委員的六日派車我知道就是有加班的問題一律一休不過再想一下因為平常事實上很多委員平常可能沒有要用車可是六日有時候你只有卡一天難度真的很高我再想再想一下看有沒有今天不見得要馬上提出今天不要再回答了因為時間很有限那可能負責的想一下好不好好不好想一下那事情就是在中興大樓點推 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4599.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4623.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
每一部會議都有講這個嘛那個廖處長我看你有做那個報告了那最重要就是要落實啦盡快好不好每天在上上下下那個真的另外一個就是會館的問題我自己是沒有住啦不過很多委員住的委員都在蔓延可能我在品質上可能要想辦法再下禮拜會員一直在講說下禮拜我們去會館一下一會兒我們去看一下那一會兒回來我們再討論一下不過請大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4626.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4641.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
我先補充一下因為剛剛賴委員也有一個書面一模一樣就是說我也幫他講一下第一個就是中西大樓電梯大家都很關心然後再來就是會館 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4642.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4642.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4658.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4683.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
主席不好意思我是那個剛才因為賴委員有講他有講到您說運動休閒的空間那我這邊提也是跟這個有點接近的啦就除了運動空間以外我們那個立法院是沒有不能說盥洗室有啦有那個警衛的盥洗室但是如果有休閒跟未來有運動空間的話這個部分是有它的必要性目前比較直接的是有些委員騎自行車來嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4684.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4701.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
但現在基本上可能也卡在這個盥洗式的問題所以大家也不好做處理啦所以也是因為運動空間、休眠空間那我這邊也提這樣一個建議跟提醒好 謝謝好 謝謝憲熙委員 那這個這個廖處長想說他再回應一下 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4704.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4723.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
感謝委員關心這些空間的問題目前我們的電梯的採購已經把前面的規劃設計的標案做完了我們也向行政院申請第二預備金等行政院合撥給我們我們的後面的標案的文件都做好了他給我們的錢的當天我們就可以上網招標了 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4724.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4746.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
第二,在委員的住宿空間的部分我們目前有兩個館一個是台北會館,一個是大安會館那大安會館目前正在施工中那最近我們也都聽取了各位委員的修正的意見那我們今天下午也會進行再做盤點那下週會邀請委員我們再次進行場刊我們希望未來提供給各位委員更好的一個住宿環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4747.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4764.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
此外就是剛剛我們委員提到的相關的一些空間那例如說以這個盥洗空間的話我們目前在中西大樓的樓下青島醫館的這個後面我們都有盥洗的空間那如果不足的部分我們再就現有的空間再進行檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4766.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4773.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
中醫大樓樓下有盥洗室只是一般人沒有走下去看那他有一間在B1停車場那裡停車場是在更下面 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4781.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4795.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
在中興大樓地下樓就有盥洗室所以委員可以多下去 我們可以帶你們下去看一下然後青島醫館也有 青島醫館的盥洗室比較新 比較大 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4797.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4823.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
對,對,對,就是在電梯附近,不是不是,就是在樓下只是一般人很少走到那個地方看到但他有慣喜事那青島醫館也有慣喜事這個部分給各位參考那因為我們的院區的空間有限那如果有需要我們再盤點一些空間來進行修繕那提供給各位的需求,以上謝謝處長,好,那林委員請 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4825.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4849.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
既然我們在盤點空間的話我有一個小小的建議就是我們去其他國家的時候他們的國會的紀念品店都非常漂亮而且非常精美然後其實是可以讓大家參觀的人可以帶回去收藏我覺得這個也是很不錯所以如果我們有這個空間盤點出來我們是不是可以也準備一個紀念品店然後同時我們做更多的紀念品年輕化的一個設計讓更多來參觀的人也可以把這個東西帶回去這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4850.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4850.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
秘書處正在上網招標 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4872.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4883.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
上禮拜已經又在公告上網11月會決標我們也歡迎各種優質的廠商來立法院來設置具有國會尊嚴的紀念品中心提供更好的服務謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4900.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4902.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
你不用的東西就放著,我來收你那個速度好快 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4920.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4921.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
主席主席主席 |
| IVOD_ID |
16185 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16185 |
| 日期 |
2024-10-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-129-30-3 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
0 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
30 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第129屆經費稽核委員會第3次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-10-18T11:55:00+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-10-18T13:01:00+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |