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video_url https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fc75bc8616f11b328790a0be61fea14818c04c64b87e30630aac3640d079538d285ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8
會議時間 2024-10-17T09:00:00+08:00
會議名稱 立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議(事由:邀請法務部部長率所屬單位主管列席報告業務概況及立法計畫,並備質詢。)
委員名稱 完整會議
影片長度 10530
委員發言時間 08:30:30 - 11:26:00
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transcript.whisperx[0].start 1778.496
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transcript.whisperx[0].text 報告委員會出席委員9人以足法定人數請主席宣布開會好現在開會進行報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第4次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國113年10月14日星期一上午9時至12時23分地點本院紅樓302會議室出席委員黃委員國昌等11人
transcript.whisperx[1].start 1804.665
transcript.whisperx[1].end 1824.165
transcript.whisperx[1].text 列席委員.委員如均等10人.列席官員.行政院人事.行政總處人事長蘇俊榮等人.主席.中召集委員嘉賓報告事項.宣讀上次會議事錄決定確定.而邀請行政院人事.行政總處人事長.及相關部會列席就政府機關導入AI提升效能.進行專題報告並備質詢
transcript.whisperx[2].start 1826.047
transcript.whisperx[2].end 1838.042
transcript.whisperx[2].text 本次會委員黃國昌等16人提出質詢委員謝龍介等2人提出書面質詢決定一報告及詢答完畢二委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關警訴送交個別委員及本會宣讀完畢
transcript.whisperx[3].start 1840.37
transcript.whisperx[3].end 1855.466
transcript.whisperx[3].text 好 我們稍後進行議事錄的確認接著介紹到場委員及應邀列席的官員先介紹在場委員 我們歡迎黃委員國昌謝謝接著介紹應邀列席官員首先歡迎鄭明謙部長
transcript.whisperx[4].start 1856.667
transcript.whisperx[4].end 1861.089
transcript.whisperx[4].text 其餘未及介紹的列席代表請參與名單不在主意介紹並列入公報記錄
transcript.whisperx[5].start 1886.906
transcript.whisperx[5].end 1889.008
transcript.whisperx[5].text 主席、各位委員、各位女士先生、各位同仁、大家早安
transcript.whisperx[6].start 1909.622
transcript.whisperx[6].end 1930.6
transcript.whisperx[6].text 那今日應貴委員會邀請率法務部團隊進行業務報告深感榮幸,竟代表本部全體同仁對大院委員先進的指導支持致最崇高的敬意跟謝意以下則要來報告進行指教那近期重要的業務辦理的情形第一是落實無大
transcript.whisperx[7].start 1932.001
transcript.whisperx[7].end 1940.108
transcript.whisperx[7].text 的政策維護社會安全那大便審議通過打詐新司法加速提升打詐量能監警調強力
transcript.whisperx[8].start 1941.62
transcript.whisperx[8].end 1963.167
transcript.whisperx[8].text 執行打詐專案,嚴懲詐欺犯罪,落實推動並修正反毒策略,前提棄毒預防災犯防止新興毒品氾濫,執行掃黑速貪行動專案,打擊綠能貪毒犯罪,強力查緝危害棄安犯罪因憲法法庭判決就此行為限縮性和限性解釋,盡速依法檢討及配合相關機關
transcript.whisperx[9].start 1964.427
transcript.whisperx[9].end 1980.175
transcript.whisperx[9].text 修正不符合先判一職的法規最高檢察署亦將依法嚴謹審核實現社會正義及保障社會安全第二就是深化司法改革打造司法友善的環境強化政務驗證效力及完整性
transcript.whisperx[10].start 1980.7
transcript.whisperx[10].end 1998.229
transcript.whisperx[10].text 推動成立國家司法科學研究院以電腦斷層掃描提升法醫相驗解剖品質進用檢察官助理等充實法務體系專業能力推動戒避者保護法製作業深化思改前進校園成效第三接軌國際
transcript.whisperx[11].start 2000.17
transcript.whisperx[11].end 2019.02
transcript.whisperx[11].text 聯政趨勢建構聯政合作平台強化國際聯政交流落實反貪污公約國際審查結論性意見提升貪污案件成效及定罪例研修小兒貪污案件法律適用規定提升機關採購食安企業服務等聯政平台透明度及成效落實公職
transcript.whisperx[12].start 2020.06
transcript.whisperx[12].end 2041.87
transcript.whisperx[12].text 人員財產申報.第4推動多元人權交易.完備現代法制.透過辦理影展稀縮人生.貿閉軌.自撥人權搜查課等活動.多元行銷人權政策.推動轉型爭議法制法.研修民法離分.法制父母承接權等規定.成立監護制度等
transcript.whisperx[13].start 2043.424
transcript.whisperx[13].end 2065.637
transcript.whisperx[13].text 第5、3、6預證管理科技化強化矯正人權推動建制矯正機關科技安全法提供收容人便捷購物服務爭取經濟不利環境不利處境的收容人現金補助提升精神疾病醫療專區收置量能等強化保護服務完善
transcript.whisperx[14].start 2066.817
transcript.whisperx[14].end 2089.692
transcript.whisperx[14].text 溫暖有感的柔性司法持續擴大更生事業群網絡提供更生人工作收入與勞動條件保障推動以被害人家庭為中心及強調尊嚴同理之保護服務第7推動科技化措施提升行政執行績效推動執行法拍千里眼計畫打造公開透明
transcript.whisperx[15].start 2091.192
transcript.whisperx[15].end 2111.441
transcript.whisperx[15].text 的聯合拍賣環境跨境合作提升拍賣效能及便門的服務的一個品質第8強化司法互助網絡深化犯罪調查周圍強化國際司法互助交流根據進行兩岸共打犯罪及司法互助參與各式國際的司法會議
transcript.whisperx[16].start 2113.649
transcript.whisperx[16].end 2130.834
transcript.whisperx[16].text 第9推動智慧資訊系統提升資安防護韌性打造AI友善之無障礙偵查挺環境推動被害人行事訴訟資訊獲知平台雙語查證服務受信任外遇監民選導入系統化作業等
transcript.whisperx[17].start 2131.923
transcript.whisperx[17].end 2150.672
transcript.whisperx[17].text 未來的施政重點有1更新推動武打基因政策執行競評專案打擊妨礙綠能的一個產類發展相關的犯罪共創幸福家園2貫徹司法改革工程合理化檢察官工作負擔完善規劃司法精神兵員
transcript.whisperx[18].start 2151.392
transcript.whisperx[18].end 2169.781
transcript.whisperx[18].text 以AI提升效能.進行聯合國防貪污公約.來舉辦第二屆的透明經濟獎.維護國家公務機密.是接軌國際人權規範.推動轉型正義平復司法及行政部法.與強化國際司法合作.打擊跨國洗錢犯罪組織
transcript.whisperx[19].start 2171.122
transcript.whisperx[19].end 2187.689
transcript.whisperx[19].text 第6 AI輔助議政管理多元基訊強化授信護規資源連結第7整合資源推動社區處理完善被害人權利保障制度第8 AI提升行政執行績效跨域合作執行各項專頁本部會依照
transcript.whisperx[20].start 2190.17
transcript.whisperx[20].end 2190.951
transcript.whisperx[20].text 請各位委員持續督促指教。謝謝
transcript.whisperx[21].start 2222.785
transcript.whisperx[21].end 2233.391
transcript.whisperx[21].text 現在機關代表報告完畢相關書面報告內容請各位參閱並列入公報記錄現在開始進行詢答本會委員詢答時間為8分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘非本會委員詢答時間為5分鐘並不再延長上午10時30分截止發言登記請登記第一位黃委員國昌發言
transcript.whisperx[22].start 2261.244
transcript.whisperx[22].end 2262.167
transcript.whisperx[22].text 謝謝主席有請部長請鄭部長
transcript.whisperx[23].start 2272.572
transcript.whisperx[23].end 2291.907
transcript.whisperx[23].text 委員早部長早有一件事情先在質詢以前拜託法務部以及新北檢的同仁注意就是最近一段時間在新北市三重分局、屠城分局兩位非常優秀年輕的派出所所長
transcript.whisperx[24].start 2292.848
transcript.whisperx[24].end 2316.151
transcript.whisperx[24].text 因為獨獨駕都往生了留下小朋友那時候去看他們家人的時候大家心裡都非常難過獨駕這個問題一定要重視在你今天的報告裡面你們有說獨品要溯源追查那個部長對於獨駕那兩位的獨品上源現在追到什麼程度有沒有掌握
transcript.whisperx[25].start 2317.55
transcript.whisperx[25].end 2341.199
transcript.whisperx[25].text 這部分檢察官在持續在追查中我相信檢察官絕對不會放棄任何的線索溯源、刨根把這些上游給抓出來溯源、刨根我們一定支持但我希望不是只有法務部書面的文字要認為具體的行動那這件事情我會持續追蹤下去抓出毒品的上游是最重要的事情謝謝委員
transcript.whisperx[26].start 2344
transcript.whisperx[26].end 2356.007
transcript.whisperx[26].text 2017年全國司改會議的時候一個非常重要的議題是社會上對於所謂的偵查大公開或偵查亂公開
transcript.whisperx[27].start 2358.149
transcript.whisperx[27].end 2378.167
transcript.whisperx[27].text 深惡痛絕施改國是會議的時候也做成了一些決議結果沒想到到2024年的現在竟然有記者可以大剌剌的說他經營減掉至少7年經營減掉7年到底是誰被經營了消息來源200%可以信賴結果我們的臺北地檢署
transcript.whisperx[28].start 2384.492
transcript.whisperx[28].end 2408.671
transcript.whisperx[28].text 9月9號的時候說要立案9月16號的時候就說查無不法這件事情部長有沒有掌握有關你這個媒體記者就這樣的一個發言那我想這部分北檢剛剛委員提到臺北地檢署在今年9月9日已經分案來做一個調查所以9月16號就結案了是嗎
transcript.whisperx[29].start 2413.634
transcript.whisperx[29].end 2432.84
transcript.whisperx[29].text 這個案件還沒有結案這個案件還在偵查中那很奇怪喔如果這個案件還沒有結案的話怎麼9月16號臺北地檢署就做結論了說沒有人洩密對這些媒體的一些的報導那我想根據那個那個偵查
transcript.whisperx[30].start 2433.496
transcript.whisperx[30].end 2440.843
transcript.whisperx[30].text 9月16日的時候臺北地檢署的新聞稿是他們沒有人洩密那你卻說偵查還沒有結束所以情況到底是怎麼樣社會上面普遍的認知是北檢9月16日的結案
transcript.whisperx[31].start 2459.388
transcript.whisperx[31].end 2483.759
transcript.whisperx[31].text 這個還沒有結案這個還在偵查中這跟委員報告這個作為辦法的第8條第8條的第一項的第7款對報導的如果說有內容跟事實不符影響的一個社會的一個看法跟影響這些被害人的一個權利等等這部分這個是有澄清的必要所以做事實的澄清
transcript.whisperx[32].start 2484.919
transcript.whisperx[32].end 2512.518
transcript.whisperx[32].text 我想做事實澄清這些媒體做這麼久的報導請先停一下你自己再回去看一下他的新聞稿看到底是結束了還是只是澄清但我要問的請教部長的一件事情是說我們按照有關於法務部加強檢查機關、廉政機關遵守偵查不公開的事實方案這個是北檢自己查自己就可以的嗎?這個我想根據那個
transcript.whisperx[33].start 2513.767
transcript.whisperx[33].end 2534.295
transcript.whisperx[33].text 這個北檢是有一個當然這個有分案來處理但是我想這個北檢對任何媒體的報導有關的新聞會有一個檢討小組那高檢署呢高檢署都要審得上級的機關有一個督導督導齁那這部分高檢是有在督導了解的嗎來啦我們直接看啊這不是督導嘛
transcript.whisperx[34].start 2535.492
transcript.whisperx[34].end 2557.296
transcript.whisperx[34].text 我剛把這個實施方案2018年你們法務部自己公開的全部都把它點出來了來請部長看一下第11點上級的檢察署檢察長或檢察總長應主動派員追查這件事有在做嗎這個我沒有請高檢來調查不用你請高檢調查
transcript.whisperx[35].start 2560.438
transcript.whisperx[35].end 2560.718
transcript.whisperx[35].text 這個高檢有調查中
transcript.whisperx[36].start 2587.442
transcript.whisperx[36].end 2603.164
transcript.whisperx[36].text 這個高檢有主動派人追查什麼時候立案的這個是在媒體的有關這個案件當日就那時候就即時就有做一個行政調查也是同樣9月9日調查完了嗎
transcript.whisperx[37].start 2604.488
transcript.whisperx[37].end 2608.552
transcript.whisperx[37].text 這個9月跟委員做一個澄清齁這個不是在9月9號發新聞稿這是在9月16號發新聞稿我知道啦
transcript.whisperx[38].start 2625.069
transcript.whisperx[38].end 2645.709
transcript.whisperx[38].text 等一下等一下等一下等一下等一下等一下部長請你針對問題回答你看一下臺北地檢署的新聞稿我兩篇都貼出來了第一個是9月9號剛我說過了左邊是9月9號右邊是9月16號剛剛你跟大家澄清了嘛9月16號都還沒有結案到目前為止還在調查是嗎
transcript.whisperx[39].start 2646.817
transcript.whisperx[39].end 2648.858
transcript.whisperx[39].text 我們看一下齁基層檢察官最近反映的心聲是什麼基層檢察官說請法務部開課
transcript.whisperx[40].start 2677.116
transcript.whisperx[40].end 2697.043
transcript.whisperx[40].text 要如何學會被媒體經營的課程可以請被經營多年的學長們擔任講座這個檢察官的心聲部長有沒有聽到這個我不清楚我現在就直接跟你報告這個是基層檢察官在檢察官論壇上面貼的法務部有要考慮開這個課嗎這個我們是對發言人我們才會做發言人的一個教育訓練
transcript.whisperx[41].start 2705.336
transcript.whisperx[41].end 2729.367
transcript.whisperx[41].text 他在諷刺你們啊看不出來喔要如何學會被媒體經營這麼多年啊再往下看請部長多聽聽基層檢察官的心聲你到今天才知道我覺得我有點震驚啊孰難想像啊沒有關係啊不管你是不是真的今天才知道基層檢察官說啊對於解媒一體的亂象
transcript.whisperx[42].start 2731.073
transcript.whisperx[42].end 2755.289
transcript.whisperx[42].text 這不是記者寫的這是檢察官寫的對檢每一體的亂象沒有積極作為將檢方的名氣踩在地上終將成為歷史罪人啊部長覺得這個檢察官沉痛的呼籲有沒有道理我們都會要求我們所屬的來落實偵查不公開那我相信我們會這樣做我們的同仁會這樣處理
transcript.whisperx[43].start 2756.428
transcript.whisperx[43].end 2770.191
transcript.whisperx[43].text 好來看一下之前啊我在司法法制委員會問過兩次了問過兩次了我帶秘密證人去北檢作證結果消息洩漏給進州刊跑獨家當陳歐珀洗地
transcript.whisperx[44].start 2771.621
transcript.whisperx[44].end 2788.781
transcript.whisperx[44].text 我之前沒有公職的時候我用我自己的時間跟精力去追查弊案結果向北檢檢舉結果被竟然被寫出來說檢舉的人是我依照偵查不公開作業辦法這個是可以公開的資訊嗎
transcript.whisperx[45].start 2790.73
transcript.whisperx[45].end 2815.308
transcript.whisperx[45].text 這個已經做行政調查完畢了那這個也是陳報高檢署北檢陳報高檢署那也在陳報最高檢已經簽結了那我想這個這份的調查是這個是的確是有某週刊有做這樣的一個報導但是這個是絕對不是北檢的洩漏出去的所以不是北檢洩漏出去的沒有然後
transcript.whisperx[46].start 2817.782
transcript.whisperx[46].end 2830.413
transcript.whisperx[46].text 後面這個案子是我檢舉的也不是北檢洩漏的這兩個案子你全部都已經偵查完畢了都簽結了這個在最高檢已經函付最高檢什麼時候結果可以給我這個已經簽結了對啊我說什麼時候結果可以通知我被害人不是我嗎那個我再請最高檢來我來看一下齁
transcript.whisperx[47].start 2844.486
transcript.whisperx[47].end 2861.643
transcript.whisperx[47].text 檢查總長痛心疾首這是我上次質詢的時候形態詔所講的痛心疾首完了然後呢痛心疾首完了然後呢然後現在北檢簽結查無不法跟絕大多數的案子啊一模一樣來我們看一下
transcript.whisperx[48].start 2862.941
transcript.whisperx[48].end 2890.178
transcript.whisperx[48].text 司法國是會議改革的方案對違反偵查不公開的規定要從制度面防堵泄密的漏洞也會與法務部研議如何嚴加追究泄密人員的責任這個是司法國是會議的結論我們再往下看法務部改革的方案加強所屬檢查調查及連任機關遵守偵查不公開原則實施方案草案
transcript.whisperx[49].start 2892.23
transcript.whisperx[49].end 2906.981
transcript.whisperx[49].text 要嚴肅的追究責任過去這7年過去這7年針對有關於涉及偵查不公開到目前為止有哪一個案子是成案有哪些人的責任被追究過去這7年因為只有兩種可能性
transcript.whisperx[50].start 2916.354
transcript.whisperx[50].end 2929.365
transcript.whisperx[50].text 一個是 連檢察官都被誤導啦說有檢媒議題啊 踐踏檢察官的名氣啊那個檢察官 在檢察官論壇講這種話是胡說八道根本沒有這樣的事那如果 在另外一方面從斯坦國事會議 做成了這樣的結論到現在7年嘛
transcript.whisperx[51].start 2943.991
transcript.whisperx[51].end 2965.809
transcript.whisperx[51].text 要研議方案要嚴肅追究責任到目前為止7年辦了什麼案子這個跟委員報告齁這個有處分了15人處分了哪15人會後名單可以給我嗎你處分的層級是檢察官還是書記官還是調查員是偵查輔助機關的人員所以不是檢察官嘛也不是調查員嘛
transcript.whisperx[52].start 2974.798
transcript.whisperx[52].end 2995.595
transcript.whisperx[52].text 來我們再往下看你們現在啊偵查不公開的檢討報告葛市長這樣子啊部長請您看一下對於這樣子報告的內容跟成效滿不滿意這個是今年才開始來做一個統計的那我們會去年就有了啦在法務部的網站上面通通都有啦
transcript.whisperx[53].start 2996.81
transcript.whisperx[53].end 3010.659
transcript.whisperx[53].text 臺北地檢署的網站通通都有啦之前的表格更簡單啦你們今年把它改成這個樣子我就問部長嘛對這樣子報告的格式跟內容還有成效滿不滿意我們現在還在14週
transcript.whisperx[54].start 3016.886
transcript.whisperx[54].end 3026.652
transcript.whisperx[54].text 對阿所以我問你阿對這個報告的格式跟內容還有成效你滿不滿意上次的格式我認為更能反映我們現在的一個需求那我們會持續的一個檢討
transcript.whisperx[55].start 3028.015
transcript.whisperx[55].end 3045.622
transcript.whisperx[55].text 我最後齁主席站起來了我只跟院長拜託一件事啊思改國社會議的結論過了7年了以後你實施的結果長成這個樣子啊長成這個樣子啊是不是有符合當初思改國社會議啊決議的內容對於這樣子的成效
transcript.whisperx[56].start 3049.163
transcript.whisperx[56].end 3074.66
transcript.whisperx[56].text 對於這樣子的成效到底大家滿不滿意能不能夠接受今天不是只有少數一兩個人在講連基層檢察官都看不下去啊自己出來砲轟啊上面所屬的長官沒有實際上面的具體作為啊我相信我們的同仁會遵守偵查不公開的一個規定我們也會嚴格的要求你講這個都是空話嘛
transcript.whisperx[57].start 3075.489
transcript.whisperx[57].end 3083.713
transcript.whisperx[57].text 我實際上面具體的案子你有哪一件辦出來我只有一個簡單的問題阿我實際上面具體檢舉的案子有哪一個辦出來全部都是簽結阿全部都是查無不法阿現在受處費的人數是零阿
transcript.whisperx[58].start 3099.714
transcript.whisperx[58].end 3123.126
transcript.whisperx[58].text 請部長把黃委員所要求的內容關於他部分的要做一個具體的回覆。謝謝黃委員、謝謝曾部長。那麼接下來在下次質詢之前,由於議事錄先前已經宣讀完畢,尚未確定。現在先確定議事錄,請問各位上次會議議事錄有錯誤或遺漏?如果沒有的話,我們議事錄就確定。那接下來我們繼續邀請陳委員進於質詢。
transcript.whisperx[59].start 3136.755
transcript.whisperx[59].end 3143.409
transcript.whisperx[59].text 委員早好謝謝主席部長還有我們各位所長大家早那好
transcript.whisperx[60].start 3145.114
transcript.whisperx[60].end 3164.428
transcript.whisperx[60].text 部長從今天的報告看來大部分還是延續性的政策在持續進進那所以我想就法務部既有的這個業務推動的情形結合幾個議題來跟部長做討論首先是有關我們司法醫療體系的健全我們在上會期也曾經有討論過當時因為這個監護處分人脫逃的事件讓我們法務部對於相關缺失進行
transcript.whisperx[61].start 3173.774
transcript.whisperx[61].end 3200.552
transcript.whisperx[61].text 過這個檢討也為了健全社會的安全網這個保安處分的處所和這個轉嫌機構也必須要競速完善那在近期更因為這個憲判對於金帳的判決讓司法精神醫療再次受到矚目那司法精神病房是由我們法務部及衛福部編列預算共同在各地進行建置從這個合定的完工期程來看
transcript.whisperx[62].start 3201.552
transcript.whisperx[62].end 3223.016
transcript.whisperx[62].text 這個月底應該要有3個地方的這個病房建置完成所以我想請教部長目前這個東部還有北部的病房是否也能如期來完成並開始收治跟委員報告這個北部跟東部都已經完成建置了都已經在收治了收治這些
transcript.whisperx[63].start 3223.911
transcript.whisperx[63].end 3226.734
transcript.whisperx[63].text 安全維護設施的設置和介護人員的規劃培訓應該是由我們法務部來主責
transcript.whisperx[64].start 3239.301
transcript.whisperx[64].end 3262.472
transcript.whisperx[64].text 由於這個司法精神病房還有這個醫療將醫院的部分將陸續完工收治的病床數也會相應的增加那相關的這個管理措施還有人力規劃都需要提前來準備來完備收治的作業那我想再請教部長就是目前在人力規劃和培訓上能否充分的因應我們收治的需求
transcript.whisperx[65].start 3263.232
transcript.whisperx[65].end 3287.062
transcript.whisperx[65].text 好謝謝委員那目前那個司法精神病房的安全維護的人員我們都有辦理那個一個勤務的一個訓練那另外在北中南東這個司法精神的一個病房這部分我們這部分的保全人員就是人力目前是充足的
transcript.whisperx[66].start 3288.086
transcript.whisperx[66].end 3306.606
transcript.whisperx[66].text 人力沒問題人力這部分是沒問題好那對於從這個前年底就開始收治的南部醫院是似乎因為缺乏編制介護人員導致他必須以外聘保全的方式來因應但可能因為工作危險性較高
transcript.whisperx[67].start 3307.647
transcript.whisperx[67].end 3311.469
transcript.whisperx[67].text 這部分的確這個保全的在對介護這些收容人的確是要比較多的一個
transcript.whisperx[68].start 3337.426
transcript.whisperx[68].end 3363.54
transcript.whisperx[68].text 專注力跟專注的時間的確是高於一般的保全的工作那這造成流動力比較高那這部分我們再分析整個原因我們再做一個檢討那作為對加強對這些的訓練以及對這些的一個專業的一個培訓我想這邊可以讓這些的流動力能夠降低能夠充分的維護這些司法精神病患的這個介乎的一個問題
transcript.whisperx[69].start 3364.46
transcript.whisperx[69].end 3386.406
transcript.whisperx[69].text 好 那這個安全維護的部分務必要準備齊全之外對於這個設置專責的司法精神病房我們也期待他能夠發揮更大的這個效果能夠給予我們監護處分人適當的這個安置和治療那也希望完全杜絕這個脫逃的情形再次發生
transcript.whisperx[70].start 3386.786
transcript.whisperx[70].end 3387.206
transcript.whisperx[70].text 跟委員報告
transcript.whisperx[71].start 3412.997
transcript.whisperx[71].end 3438.803
transcript.whisperx[71].text 檢察機關跟司法警察機關的聯繫是非常的密切那尤其對這些有簽約的醫院的這些受監護處分人的這些的安全維護我們都會跟警方做密切的一個聯繫合作那有關委員關心的就是定期拍照這個問題我們在保安處分執行法這部分我們內陸修法的所以在這邊再做一個研議
transcript.whisperx[72].start 3439.563
transcript.whisperx[72].end 3458.935
transcript.whisperx[72].text 所以目前還沒有就對了目前還沒有那我們會嚴厲在這邊在在保安處分執行法這邊是不是來做一個一個修法我們再在嚴厲中這部分我們再嚴議看看那司法精神醫院和這個病房的建置我想不管是在法界還是醫界或大眾都期待很久了
transcript.whisperx[73].start 3459.395
transcript.whisperx[73].end 3486.087
transcript.whisperx[73].text 希望我們法務部能夠和衛福部競速將相關的設施和措施都準備到位並持續的精進這部分再請部長跟同仁繼續努力再來我想跟部長您探討的是法務部在柔性司法中也有提及到有關社會勞動的制度社會勞動作為6個月以下輕罪的替代方案
transcript.whisperx[74].start 3487.389
transcript.whisperx[74].end 3504.235
transcript.whisperx[74].text 若能完善制度並加以推動相信對於緩解監獄超收達成教化功能和社會公益能創造三贏的局面我想請教部長對於社會勞動制度目前實施的成效如何評估
transcript.whisperx[75].start 3509.353
transcript.whisperx[75].end 3524.39
transcript.whisperx[75].text 社會勞動服務的確是可以減少短期自由行的流弊在就業這邊可以兼顧但實質上的消費的確是減少短期自由行的流弊避免標籤化
transcript.whisperx[76].start 3526.112
transcript.whisperx[76].end 3543.534
transcript.whisperx[76].text 那第二就是矯正資源的分配可以更合理化那再來就可以避免增加這個矯正的一個預算經費減少國家的財政負擔另外最重要還可以紓解監獄超收擁擠安全的我想這是一個直接可以看到的一個效益
transcript.whisperx[77].start 3545.776
transcript.whisperx[77].end 3574.357
transcript.whisperx[77].text 好但是從這幾年我們這個社勞案件逐漸上升的趨勢來看可能會遭遇到一些問題看到我們法務部所提供的資料在今年1到8月就已經執行完成10353件那審計部也曾提到這個審核意見有部分這個地檢署管理這個社勞案件的官戶佐理員可能因為案件量的
transcript.whisperx[78].start 3575.077
transcript.whisperx[78].end 3589.699
transcript.whisperx[78].text 增加難以負荷導致離職率偏高而且目前這個空缺未能補期所以直接導致人員這個調度上的困難那這部分法務部應該要如何來因應
transcript.whisperx[79].start 3590.78
transcript.whisperx[79].end 3614.147
transcript.whisperx[79].text 這部分我想仍少示範我們也知道這個佐立委員的待遇也是比較偏低那跟其他的這些比較前我們認為還有調整的空間所以我們在114年預計要調新幅度要調整7%讓這些我們關乎佐立委員能夠久任那我想這是我們努力在做這一部分
transcript.whisperx[80].start 3618.073
transcript.whisperx[80].end 3635.138
transcript.whisperx[80].text 社勞合作執行機關方面本席曾經接到機關首長反映社勞人員可能因為請假或缺席未到導致執行人力陰道跟時道的情況有落差在人力派遣的管理上
transcript.whisperx[81].start 3635.418
transcript.whisperx[81].end 3635.438
transcript.whisperx[81].text 謝謝委員
transcript.whisperx[82].start 3655.802
transcript.whisperx[82].end 3682.955
transcript.whisperx[82].text 就是我們在簽到退這一部分齁我們應用科技的一個設備目前我們是可以用不定時的用手機或者通訊軟體來來查證這個社勞人他的簽到退的情形那如果說我們可以可以更精進的話我們再評估齁是不是個引進那個AI的輔助電子簽到的一個方式齁那目前大概是因為整個一個執行的機構那邊未必一定有
transcript.whisperx[83].start 3683.575
transcript.whisperx[83].end 3683.995
transcript.whisperx[83].text 另外我再請教部長有關這個
transcript.whisperx[84].start 3708.582
transcript.whisperx[84].end 3736.977
transcript.whisperx[84].text 上司煙彈對於社會所造成的這個危害那近期我們看到這個上司煙彈等新興的毒品在社會中不斷的蔓延不但這個吸食的人口越來越多也發現許多起這種毒價這個吸毒之後駕駛汽車了所造成的這種死傷這個悲劇那我們也看到8月份法務部和行政院已經將這個上司煙彈列為這個三級毒品但這個毒品
transcript.whisperx[85].start 3737.637
transcript.whisperx[85].end 3737.857
transcript.whisperx[85].text 我想...呃...
transcript.whisperx[86].start 3753.826
transcript.whisperx[86].end 3773.766
transcript.whisperx[86].text 這部分我們會跨部會來做一個合作那有關你這個藥防肚這些上次煙彈進入校園我想我們會在在那個安居氣毒專案跟校園青春的專案我們把它列入查緝的重點尤其這一藥頭我們會會強力的一個守盪防止這進入校園另外我們在
transcript.whisperx[87].start 3774.326
transcript.whisperx[87].end 3789.961
transcript.whisperx[87].text 校園委員會全力來做一個宣導認識這些毒品的危害讓這些學生避免因為因為有一些像用電子煙的或其他的呈現而不小心去使用到這些的一個毒品那個謝謝委員的關心我們這邊會來會來努力來做
transcript.whisperx[88].start 3791.823
transcript.whisperx[88].end 3810.064
transcript.whisperx[88].text 那對於這個新興毒品和這個毒價所造成的死傷讓社會大眾都感到非常的痛心那先前我們也看到警政署長曾表示過建議中央提高此類這個新興毒品的這個刑度那對此我想請教部長未來有沒有可能對於這個部分來做相關的修法規劃
transcript.whisperx[89].start 3811.225
transcript.whisperx[89].end 3824.097
transcript.whisperx[89].text 我想這個整個社會的一個反應跟包括整個一個我們團隊的一個反應意見是不是可以提高或做一個管制我們會我們會有讀品的一個讀審會來做一個進行的一個審議
transcript.whisperx[90].start 3827.7
transcript.whisperx[90].end 3834.504
transcript.whisperx[90].text 打擊毒品我相信是我們法務部和相關部會一直以來都是積極努力的一個目標然後我也希望說這個法務部跟相關部會可以持續精進防治毒品濫用的情形也可以減少對社會
transcript.whisperx[91].start 3853.84
transcript.whisperx[91].end 3881.902
transcript.whisperx[91].text 所造成的相關傷害以上請我們法務部跟各部會所長積極努力好 謝謝好 謝謝陳委員 謝謝鄭部長接下來有請吳委員私謠質詢部長你可以先休息一下好 謝謝主席那部長喝口水還是辛苦大家
transcript.whisperx[92].start 3883.41
transcript.whisperx[92].end 3883.71
transcript.whisperx[92].text 上午9點35分
transcript.whisperx[93].start 3899.83
transcript.whisperx[93].end 3918.508
transcript.whisperx[93].text 在過25分鐘﹐我們即將要跟朝野各黨團﹐包括韓國瑜院長﹐召集了協商﹐終於希望能夠針對總預算案﹐能不能夠成功地突破僵局﹐能夠赴為審查。稍後的協商﹐我想社會都在看﹐全民都在等。
transcript.whisperx[94].start 3919.349
transcript.whisperx[94].end 3924.395
transcript.whisperx[94].text 那我也整理了一下在總預算其實沒有辦法審查預算法54條的規範之下呢新興的計畫新增的預算沒有辦法執行所以total來到2050億
transcript.whisperx[95].start 3934.947
transcript.whisperx[95].end 3953.568
transcript.whisperx[95].text 所以這2050億方方面面攸關照顧人民福祉臺灣的建設要進步能不能夠來化解我們稍後會有答案但是呢下一頁就您所執掌的法務部主管的相關預算受影響的有哪些
transcript.whisperx[96].start 3954.971
transcript.whisperx[96].end 3969.615
transcript.whisperx[96].text 這部分總共有跟委員報告那法務部影響的這部分有新興計畫的有總共有11項包括法醫研究所的強化法醫鑑識能量的科技計畫矯正屬的有矯正機關科技安全網建置計畫以及矯正機關
transcript.whisperx[97].start 3973.136
transcript.whisperx[97].end 3974.557
transcript.whisperx[97].text 總共有11項,我整理出來大概數額會是11.26億
transcript.whisperx[98].start 3997.947
transcript.whisperx[98].end 4023.726
transcript.whisperx[98].text 他會focus在我們上會期剛剛完成的打詐司法裡頭打詐的新興的工具使用的升級所以呢打詐升級的預算被擋了那也包括你剛剛講的強化法醫鑑識的量能這些讓我們強化基層工作人員讓他辦案更專業也能夠減輕我們一直在司法法制委員會大家都說要為司法人員減壓
transcript.whisperx[99].start 4025.647
transcript.whisperx[99].end 4044.008
transcript.whisperx[99].text 這些科學化的信心工具要導入被擋了那當然我們一直不足的矯正經費也受了影響所以我這裡整理的11.26億元這段時間你們有沒有強化跟朝野的委員做說明呼籲倡議
transcript.whisperx[100].start 4046.533
transcript.whisperx[100].end 4075.279
transcript.whisperx[100].text 每一分每一秒每一毛都是必要之用的計畫項目不是嗎是我們這部分我們有請我們及本部及所屬就有這新新的這個計畫我們就是要拜託委員來多一個支持因為這的確很重要像調查局有些科技辦案的這些要整個一個新的一個犯罪手法的一個查緝的這些的追緝的這些尤其是網路犯罪
transcript.whisperx[101].start 4075.959
transcript.whisperx[101].end 4078.344
transcript.whisperx[101].text 委員們不要在質詢的時候要求看到打炸的成果然後擋打炸的預算
transcript.whisperx[102].start 4088.345
transcript.whisperx[102].end 4105.501
transcript.whisperx[102].text 委員們不要在法制委員會每次都為司法人員的權益大聲疾呼要照顧司法人員減壓然後預算砍了也不要委員們每次在這裡說我們對於改善我們的監獄預鎖這個看守所所有的
transcript.whisperx[103].start 4107.308
transcript.whisperx[103].end 4119.727
transcript.whisperx[103].text 這些矯正相關的作業要升級要更人道要跟上國際的人權思維結果預算都沒丁沒當我再次期待稍後的
transcript.whisperx[104].start 4120.99
transcript.whisperx[104].end 4130.821
transcript.whisperx[104].text 朝野協商我們可以讓該做的事情每一分每一毫都要用在刀口上唯有透過實質的審查才能夠對預算的編列跟執行的計畫進行嚴格的把關跟審視而不是擋著不審擋著擺爛擋著來癱瘓國家
transcript.whisperx[105].start 4142.847
transcript.whisperx[105].end 4164.839
transcript.whisperx[105].text 那我接下來下一頁我接下來講的預政改革跟預算也大有相關其實我們對於這個收容人不管是在監獄或是看守所整個環境的改善我知道你們逐步在做有5所包括監獄跟看守所有的是擴建有的是興建但是總體來說下一頁
transcript.whisperx[106].start 4168.591
transcript.whisperx[106].end 4189.583
transcript.whisperx[106].text 兩公約我們簽署的相關對於受刑人的人道處理尊重其天賦人格尊嚴之處喻等等兩公約這個是過去馬英九政府簽署我們認為要跟上國際所以回歸兩公約的規範下一頁
transcript.whisperx[107].start 4192.864
transcript.whisperx[107].end 4207.802
transcript.whisperx[107].text 我就問您 矯正單位的收容情況我們從2016 17開始推動一人一床開始編列預算來提升提高收容我這裡的數據我就直接
transcript.whisperx[108].start 4210.064
transcript.whisperx[108].end 4215.186
transcript.whisperx[108].text 來詢問合定收容的人數是60552實際收容是58889位看似沒有超收是真的嗎部長數字會說話
transcript.whisperx[109].start 4227.993
transcript.whisperx[109].end 4251.632
transcript.whisperx[109].text 這是總數嗎總數是沒有超收啦齁但是個別的監所這個是收容是不一樣所以我們要勇敢面對問題解決問題我想這是一個老問題我要藉由今天的質詢還有後續我們審查總預算的時候好好來把關嚴格檢視下一頁我就以地區來分我的辦公室這段時間花了非常多的時間就全台灣的矯正機關每一所每一處
transcript.whisperx[110].start 4253.713
transcript.whisperx[110].end 4269.991
transcript.whisperx[110].text 去瞭解去調查大台北桃竹苗地區15個收容矯正機關當中有10所是超收的平均超收都是兩成多三成多第一名就是臺北看守所他超收率是39.93%就是四成區別下一個
transcript.whisperx[111].start 4275.629
transcript.whisperx[111].end 4284.493
transcript.whisperx[111].text 中張頭地區8所當中6所超收,它的平均超收最高的是南投看守所,超收是28.9
transcript.whisperx[112].start 4287.051
transcript.whisperx[112].end 4310.009
transcript.whisperx[112].text 其餘大概加起來也都是10多%的超收率喔下一頁雲嘉南9所中有3所超收超收最高的是臺南看守所達到17.44%下一頁高屏地區7所矯正機關當中5所超收超收率最高的是高雄第二監獄17.5%下一頁
transcript.whisperx[113].start 4313.712
transcript.whisperx[113].end 4339.603
transcript.whisperx[113].text 移花東10所矯正機關3所超收李島當然收容人數比較少是唯一一個沒有超收的區域我以區域別來做這樣子的分析這些資訊部長都有掌握嘛對不對我大概的分析是正確的吧好下一頁如果以所有的項目別我就以超收間數來計算
transcript.whisperx[114].start 4341.804
transcript.whisperx[114].end 4363.696
transcript.whisperx[114].text 整體臺灣的矯正機關53%超收超收前五名我列在最右邊的表格第一名是臺北看守所第二名桃園監獄第三南投看守所第四新竹看守所第五苗栗看守所而總體來說看守所的超收比監獄更嚴重
transcript.whisperx[115].start 4366.678
transcript.whisperx[115].end 4389.865
transcript.whisperx[115].text 而女性的女子監獄或是女子看守所她的人權待遇是更差的因為她都是百分之百超收的請把這些數據我希望今天的質詢之後你們可以提供完整的進一步資訊跟檢視的計畫跟給本席我們在討論預算的時候我們好好來找出方法來解決它下一頁
transcript.whisperx[116].start 4390.905
transcript.whisperx[116].end 4412.403
transcript.whisperx[116].text 那我以你們開始推動的一人一床推動到現在還是有五成沒有達標當中就是看守所的進度最糟部長這些問題下一頁怎麼解決需要預算嘛需要預算也需要有計畫
transcript.whisperx[117].start 4413.944
transcript.whisperx[117].end 4427.199
transcript.whisperx[117].text 這個是因為監所的一個一個聽設的一個部署我們現在是在積極的辦理來擴增建築那這邊我們也是預算這部分能夠能夠能夠能夠省順利
transcript.whisperx[118].start 4428.379
transcript.whisperx[118].end 4443.297
transcript.whisperx[118].text 那這部分跟委員報告我們那個也是在努力那其實是我們現在的一個一人一船已經達到八成了有到八成嗎八成三了最新的數據那給我update最新的數據好嗎好那我們再提供最新的數據
transcript.whisperx[119].start 4443.677
transcript.whisperx[119].end 4471.01
transcript.whisperx[119].text 好我時間要到了我先跟您卸題一下我認為制度的修正是需要的剛剛講的是執行它有難度預算是不是足夠空間是不是擴建興建都還需要再大力的來規劃但是就規定來講法務部頒布的各監獄收容受刑人的這個基準表2001年規定的它對於每一個收容人的居住空間法定
transcript.whisperx[120].start 4471.81
transcript.whisperx[120].end 4486.555
transcript.whisperx[120].text 是0.7平你知道這個數字嗎是如果比歐洲理事會他們是多人房單人房都有不同的配置都是我們的好幾倍
transcript.whisperx[121].start 4487.395
transcript.whisperx[121].end 4487.695
transcript.whisperx[121].text 最後一頁
transcript.whisperx[122].start 4514.31
transcript.whisperx[122].end 4520.058
transcript.whisperx[122].text 前夜這邊是我也整理出來的您剛講我們這幾年投入了
transcript.whisperx[123].start 4521.552
transcript.whisperx[123].end 4545.448
transcript.whisperx[123].text 經費去進行監獄的興建或擴建目前完工啟用的有臺北監獄宜蘭監獄但是這兩個完工擴建的他還是超收換言之你已經花了錢沒有改到位他還是面臨超收這是當初規劃的問題呢還是在收容的部分沒有辦法去做一個管理
transcript.whisperx[124].start 4548.337
transcript.whisperx[124].end 4571.916
transcript.whisperx[124].text 雲林第二監獄已經完工啟用了他一樣也是非常滿的他增加了1360個收容名額那我們看還有兩個新興計畫是八德外醫監跟彰化看守所當中五處要改善矯正機關的人道的這個空間改善只有一所是看守所就是彰化看守所
transcript.whisperx[125].start 4572.887
transcript.whisperx[125].end 4587.234
transcript.whisperx[125].text 那你看巴德跟彰化目前還在執行中總的來看這五個裡面即便完工了他還是超收然後北部我剛剛給你看各區的分佈圖北區的
transcript.whisperx[126].start 4590.14
transcript.whisperx[126].end 4605.228
transcript.whisperx[126].text 超收狀況是最嚴重可是你整個擴建政策沒有因地制宜換言之需要去解決的那些最急的最不人道的那些區域你反而沒有啟動擴建的計畫我時間到了後續再討論預算的時候我希望針對這些矯正機關擴建新建的計畫你們能夠在審議預算的時候清楚的來跟國會來報告這樣好嗎
transcript.whisperx[127].start 4616.554
transcript.whisperx[127].end 4623.279
transcript.whisperx[127].text 總預算再過15分鐘的協商希望能夠順利 全民都在看 一起加油 謝謝部長謝謝委員 謝謝吳委員 謝謝鄭部長接下來有請沈委員發會質詢
transcript.whisperx[128].start 4658.625
transcript.whisperx[128].end 4679.575
transcript.whisperx[128].text 主席我們是不是請部長有請鄭部長委員早部長早我想今天這個本席大概很仔細的看了我們這個法務部的書面的業務報告就大概兩個問題來跟這個部長來請教
transcript.whisperx[129].start 4684.062
transcript.whisperx[129].end 4703.913
transcript.whisperx[129].text 第一個就是有關我們在106年9月的司改國事會議裡面那時候有決議那時候的司改國事會議的一個決議就是應該設立國家級的司法科學委員會當然有很多理由最主要是這個
transcript.whisperx[130].start 4705.454
transcript.whisperx[130].end 4715.808
transcript.whisperx[130].text 強化司法發現真實之能力減少冤議這是當時我們四改國事會議的正式結論從106年到現在今年民國113年
transcript.whisperx[131].start 4724.26
transcript.whisperx[131].end 4732.385
transcript.whisperx[131].text 這個過程裡面我們這個當時司改會所所大家所做成的決議認為應該設立國家級的司法科學委員會這樣子的一個結論經過這麼多年了齁我們現在在你們的這個業務報告裡面看到齁這個國家級的司法科學
transcript.whisperx[132].start 4746.428
transcript.whisperx[132].end 4764.006
transcript.whisperx[132].text 委員會現在經過多年的研討跟這個研究你們的研議之後現在變成要設立在以現在的這個法醫研究所的改制做這個國家司法科學研究院
transcript.whisperx[133].start 4765.726
transcript.whisperx[133].end 4791.226
transcript.whisperx[133].text 對不對部長現在是不是這個方向是朝這個方向來努力目前在研究所在規劃進行中我知道現在我有整理這個整個變化的過程如何一個司改國事會議的結論從一個國家級的國家級的司法科學委員會到現在變成法務部這個所屬法務部所屬的一個
transcript.whisperx[134].start 4793.209
transcript.whisperx[134].end 4811.687
transcript.whisperx[134].text 國家司法科學研究院的一個司法科學研究院這樣子的變化過程在106年施改國事會議提出這個結論之後我看我們法務部在107年108年那時候就開始研議舉辦了多次的這個這個可行性跟這個籌備會議那時候一開始還叫籌備會議是朝這個國家級的的這個司法科學委員會的這個這個方向來籌備
transcript.whisperx[135].start 4819.485
transcript.whisperx[135].end 4836.57
transcript.whisperx[135].text 但是這樣子從107年之後經過4年到110年之後我們開始由法醫研究所來開始研議法醫研究所的改制這把整個國家級把它降到我們法務部所屬的這個法醫研究所的改制
transcript.whisperx[136].start 4837.403
transcript.whisperx[136].end 4857.892
transcript.whisperx[136].text 那到這個110這個是110年喔又經過一年之後法院研究所把他們改制的建議報告給部長到112年我們法務部就把他報到行政院了就變成把原本司改國事會議裡面認為應該是一個國家級的獨立機關最後的研議的結果是法務部
transcript.whisperx[137].start 4858.993
transcript.whisperx[137].end 4879.863
transcript.whisperx[137].text 下屬由法域研究院來改制的一個這個能不能請部長說明一下這樣子的政策轉折一直到我知道現在你們在112年報行政院把這個組織草案把這個組織法草案報行政院之後又回來修改修改之後在在今年的
transcript.whisperx[138].start 4881.038
transcript.whisperx[138].end 4907.192
transcript.whisperx[138].text 的8月才沒多久之前8月你們又已經修改後的草案送行政院了對不對是這部分這個比較詳細的一個轉折我是不是可以請那個法醫研究所侯所長來跟委員來做一個這個法醫研究所的他們他們也很用心的來說就法醫研究所如何改制讓法醫研究所從現在的功能裡面他能夠去擴大到這個相關領域但是
transcript.whisperx[139].start 4907.972
transcript.whisperx[139].end 4929.022
transcript.whisperx[139].text 我為什麼認為不是由法醫研究所來回答因為這個是政策選擇這個不是他們的法醫研究所他們認為他們自己怎麼樣改制之後對這個比較有用而是說我們的這個司改國事委員會很清楚講的是一個獨立的國家司法鑑定機關到現在變成法務部下屬的那這個
transcript.whisperx[140].start 4930.294
transcript.whisperx[140].end 4955.277
transcript.whisperx[140].text 我想這個還是最後還是一個政策的選擇而不是法醫研究所他們的研究啦他們的研究整本我都看完了啦研究的相當的詳細但是畢竟他就是他法醫研究所他不可能說研究的出來結果讓自己變成一個國家級的獨立單位這個是不可能的他是他們的研議方向就是在法務部體制之下如何讓法醫研究所去擴充他的職能讓他能夠
transcript.whisperx[141].start 4957.721
transcript.whisperx[141].end 4983.409
transcript.whisperx[141].text 稍微的程度去涵蓋司法國是會議所講的那些統籌國家的這個這個司法科技只是這個方向而已所以還是政策還是我們部長這邊要來清楚談這個我們現在國家的這個司法科學那時候為什麼司改國是會會做這樣的結論我們現在這是各個機關大家各個不同的這個司法科學的單位
transcript.whisperx[142].start 4985.1
transcript.whisperx[142].end 5010.89
transcript.whisperx[142].text 分散在各個機關包括我們這個法務部下面的法醫研究所我們調查局裡面的監視科學處警政署自己刑事警察局裡面有有這個刑事警察局的監視中心國防部有國防部的監視中心海洋委員會有海洋委員會的監視中心這個都各個單位所做出來的監視它並沒有一個國家級的一個認證並沒有一個國家級的認證這是那時候為什麼
transcript.whisperx[143].start 5014.111
transcript.whisperx[143].end 5029.945
transcript.whisperx[143].text 為什麼司改國是會議認為說我們現在需要這樣子一個國家級同籌各個這個司法科學單位的一個機構啊但是你們最後的結果你們現在所做出來的結果就是還是這些單位都仍然存在你們自己還是一個這些單位其中的一個單位
transcript.whisperx[144].start 5031.856
transcript.whisperx[144].end 5053.502
transcript.whisperx[144].text 這個跟原本的這個司改會的結論恐怕是天差地遠我再用美國的例子美國他們設置了一個司法科學領域委員會叫OSAC他們把它分成整個司法科學分成七大領域我們這七大領域裡面我看我們這個七大領域現在分散在各個單位
transcript.whisperx[145].start 5054.562
transcript.whisperx[145].end 5082.949
transcript.whisperx[145].text 我們有關生物的部分﹚法醫研究所﹚刑事警察局﹚調查局還有六都的這些刑事監視中心我們有關物理及形態分析分散在刑事警察局﹚六都的刑事監視中心﹚海巡署﹚還有國防部我們的現場勘查在刑事警察局﹚六都刑事監視中心﹚國防部回物跡證在調查局﹚在刑事警察局﹚法醫學在法醫研究所
transcript.whisperx[146].start 5084.313
transcript.whisperx[146].end 5102.923
transcript.whisperx[146].text 數位跟媒體在調查局、刑事警察局、國防部這七大領域我們幾乎每一個領域都分散在各個不同的機構這樣子部長這樣子我們怎麼樣用這個法醫研究所的改制來取代這個獨立性的
transcript.whisperx[147].start 5105.439
transcript.whisperx[147].end 5131.772
transcript.whisperx[147].text 獨立性的這個司法委員會這個部長能不能說明這邊我也希望有建立一個國家級的就是在外界是在行政院的這個一個外界然後把剛剛委員提到的散落在各個機關的這些的但是現在你們所做出來的不是啊經過這麼多年106年到現在113年跟委員報告就是本來就是有嚴厲就是設在行政院但是因為行政院他的委員會他那個已經
transcript.whisperx[148].start 5133.356
transcript.whisperx[148].end 5133.757
transcript.whisperx[148].text 市長要補充嗎?
transcript.whisperx[149].start 5143.22
transcript.whisperx[149].end 5170.89
transcript.whisperx[149].text 我看你一直愈來愈遇事跟委員報告其實這個是一個政策上的選擇在行政院當時在討論的時候到底是要一階段來達成這個目標還是分階段二階段來達成目標所以在政策上的選擇上行政院決定用二階段來達成這個目標第一階段就是我們現在法務部所提出來的版本先設在法務部的一個委員會接下來下一個階段之後才成為一個行政院級的這一個但你們設在法務部之下
transcript.whisperx[150].start 5172.219
transcript.whisperx[150].end 5178.841
transcript.whisperx[150].text 立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第1屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第2會期司法及法制委員會第2會期
transcript.whisperx[151].start 5200.652
transcript.whisperx[151].end 5221.405
transcript.whisperx[151].text 學青政務組變成生物認證中心,就把組改成中心,增加一個綜合規劃中心,跟新設一個司法科學研究教育中心,大概就這樣子,沒有改變啊?沒有,這個委員會的組成,即使未來是法務部的三級機關,它還是由一個委員會來,審議委員會獨立存在
transcript.whisperx[152].start 5223.286
transcript.whisperx[152].end 5231.89
transcript.whisperx[152].text 這個我現在就可以討論這個審議委員會了齁你們把這個審議委員會你所謂獨立存在並不是獨立存在於這個國家架構沒有錯但是它是獨立運作它是在這個國家科學委員會
transcript.whisperx[153].start 5238.693
transcript.whisperx[153].end 5244.556
transcript.whisperx[153].text 國家科學院的院長下面他的成績還在這個國家科學院院長下面把原本應該獨立於國家獨立的機關拉到法務部下面的研究這個研究院的下面
transcript.whisperx[154].start 5255.576
transcript.whisperx[154].end 5279.929
transcript.whisperx[154].text 這個要如何這個要他他他所扮演職能他要怎麼樣具有公信力去做這個有關實驗室啊人員資格的認證有關這個司法科學教育司法科學政策全部都由他負責啊來跟我們報告像我們現在獨評審議委員會他也在法務部底下但是他的所屬的成員都是外界獨立的客觀公正人士來擔任獨立的審議委員會來審議他的獨立性客觀性也不容挑戰
transcript.whisperx[155].start 5280.549
transcript.whisperx[155].end 5295.261
transcript.whisperx[155].text 所以沒有做未來制度設計上你不能這樣講啦你不能說啊因為我們找的人都很公正所以他就是會是獨立機關這種東西一個國家體制的設計當然有他的道理為什麼他要是獨立機關為什麼他現在在法務部下面的研究院研究院下面的委員會
transcript.whisperx[156].start 5296.022
transcript.whisperx[156].end 5310.355
transcript.whisperx[156].text 那成績差那麼多國家級的研究院的確是個目標但是我們現在剛有跟委員報告政策上我們先用二階段來實施第一階段先設在法務部我沒有看到二階段從106年到113年我只看到整個政策從獨立機關一直演變到三級機關然後把那個委員會放在三級機關之下
transcript.whisperx[157].start 5321.328
transcript.whisperx[157].end 5346.34
transcript.whisperx[157].text 我沒有看到所謂第二階段在哪裡啊當然是我們設在我們法務部底下之後未來評估是不是設在行政院未來評估從106年一直評估到現在113年你如果說世改國資會議是去年開的你現在在說還在未來要評估我還相信你你現在已經106年延誼到113年最後提出來的草案你說啊這個是二階段裡面的一個階段這個我看
transcript.whisperx[158].start 5347.472
transcript.whisperx[158].end 5347.812
transcript.whisperx[158].text 接下來請羅委員至強質詢
transcript.whisperx[159].start 5384.559
transcript.whisperx[159].end 5391.124
transcript.whisperx[159].text 法務部跟廉政署可以說是政府的法律守門人也是政風跟廉潔的守門人嘛 對不對
transcript.whisperx[160].start 5411.368
transcript.whisperx[160].end 5412.149
transcript.whisperx[160].text 主席
transcript.whisperx[161].start 5428.9
transcript.whisperx[161].end 5447.919
transcript.whisperx[161].text 我們的政府在推動2025非核家園為了推動這個目標所以全速的推動綠能可是當我們在發展綠能的時候經濟部他有一個擔憂他怕台灣變成外商套利的這個對象所以在比方說一些風場的開發案上
transcript.whisperx[162].start 5449.821
transcript.whisperx[162].end 5465.157
transcript.whisperx[162].text 他要求開發商一旦接了這個封廠的開發案事故要遵守規定不可以超過股權的50%說你後來接到政府的封廠你接下來事故不可以超過50%那如果你超過
transcript.whisperx[163].start 5466.158
transcript.whisperx[163].end 5487.491
transcript.whisperx[163].text 他就是甚至可以重罰甚至會跟經濟部跟能源局簽訂的離岸風電開發契約會自動失效你覺得我們今天政府設一個所謂的發起人號開發商這個得到政府的這個所謂的風場開發的許可之後不能夠事故到50%以下你覺得這個設規定合理嗎
transcript.whisperx[164].start 5490.592
transcript.whisperx[164].end 5490.612
transcript.whisperx[164].text 經濟部長
transcript.whisperx[165].start 5509.249
transcript.whisperx[165].end 5529.808
transcript.whisperx[165].text 就是我用西施來標結果最後把這個權利賣給東施沒錯吧因為他如果今天我今天是以羅志強身份來標案對不對結果到最後標到案子之後呢結果就把這個標案的權利讓給張三你覺得政府可以允許這種事情嗎
transcript.whisperx[166].start 5531.141
transcript.whisperx[166].end 5553.775
transcript.whisperx[166].text 可不可以部長你應該看過很多政府標案的問題吧對不對署長你也有問署長好了你覺得這樣好嗎我們會請我們的政風注意這個狀況我告訴你不好啦所以經濟部這個規定是合理的問題就來了我想請教您你知道我們在2017年有一家公司叫達德
transcript.whisperx[167].start 5555.509
transcript.whisperx[167].end 5561.353
transcript.whisperx[167].text 他就是獲得我們經濟部號來許可建制允能風力發電廠
transcript.whisperx[168].start 5563.035
transcript.whisperx[168].end 5563.696
transcript.whisperx[168].text 我請問一下署長這個有什麼問題啊
transcript.whisperx[169].start 5592.745
transcript.whisperx[169].end 5618.055
transcript.whisperx[169].text 那我們對這個案件的部分就是說我會請我們政風再瞭解一下詳細的部分非常好非常好這是你回答我待會要問的問題經濟部原來說不可以事故到50%以下這家公司很厲害欸一路就事故到從100到0而且中間都是誰核准的你知道嗎都誰核准的這誰核准的事故是誰來核准的經濟部啊
transcript.whisperx[170].start 5621.171
transcript.whisperx[170].end 5639.543
transcript.whisperx[170].text 經濟部自己設了50%的原則結果讓達德一路四股四道變成是零那我想這中間到底有什麼問題您總知道像這風場動輒利益就上百億吧是很大的因為政府給的短購價格很高嘛這第一個問題我們經濟部長昨天答應過我囉
transcript.whisperx[171].start 5642.225
transcript.whisperx[171].end 5652.27
transcript.whisperx[171].text 他說這個問題為什麼出現這個問題有沒有涉及土利的問題有沒有涉及一些政風的問題他要移交給政風跟檢調我請問部長你有收到了嗎我不會收到這些個案的那個檢舉的話那個會到檢察官嗎來請問廉政署呢你會得到這個訊息嗎目前沒有
transcript.whisperx[172].start 5666.516
transcript.whisperx[172].end 5692.488
transcript.whisperx[172].text 如果接到請你好好地去了解好嗎第二個問題更大了經濟部說不能到50%以下結果一路的準但經濟部也是中間也突然良心發現他中間有一天當達德從48要再去調整要去試骨試到25的時候經濟部也受不了了他說你這樣子不對啊
transcript.whisperx[173].start 5693.499
transcript.whisperx[173].end 5708.363
transcript.whisperx[173].text 你如果這樣做我跟你講我現在直接告訴你你在你拿到電業執照錢你不准再去變更你的股權如果你變更股權我就要罰你了就重罰前面講重罰罰第一個19.2億的這個懲罰性違約金罰第二個更重
transcript.whisperx[174].start 5714.965
transcript.whisperx[174].end 5725.797
transcript.whisperx[174].text 因為我剛剛講 短購價格比我們一般的那個電力成本要高政府是給一個算特許的利益所以政府本來給予允能風場每度電視要用5.8元來買結果經濟部在這個 裡面就會議當中說 如果你再動你違約的話
transcript.whisperx[175].start 5733.985
transcript.whisperx[175].end 5756.268
transcript.whisperx[175].text 我就取消你這給你的短購的這個利益本來5.8塊錢跟你買每度電我改成2.13元跟你買每度電中間差價3.67元然後呢算起來因為他每年可以發22.4億度電5年下來你知道可以總共如果是按迴避成本處罰要處罰多少錢你知道嗎
transcript.whisperx[176].start 5757.555
transcript.whisperx[176].end 5765.419
transcript.whisperx[176].text 數學有點複雜3.67乘以5乘以22.4億411億元第一個是發19.2億元第二是處罰迴避成本將近400億元你知道最後我們經濟部發多少嗎?發3.5億元那我想請問這麼重大的所謂的違反當時經濟部原則的一個做法
transcript.whisperx[177].start 5787.533
transcript.whisperx[177].end 5800.449
transcript.whisperx[177].text 那經濟部本來的裁罰在白紙黑字的那個會議記錄上都說你再變動股權我就要祭出這個處罰了結果我最後達得變成0經濟部最後罰3.5億該罰不罰算不算圖利的一種請問署長
transcript.whisperx[178].start 5809.155
transcript.whisperx[178].end 5836.129
transcript.whisperx[178].text 該罰不罰也是圖利的一種部長最近我們的檢察官辦圖利辦得很辛苦啦對不對也很努力在辦圖利這件事情是經濟部長答應我啦他說要移送到檢察機關移送政風我真的這邊拜託我們的法務部拜託我們檢察官甚至廉政署
transcript.whisperx[179].start 5837.13
transcript.whisperx[179].end 5843.839
transcript.whisperx[179].text 不用等經濟部移送部長雖然很有誠意要移送你們可不可以主動來辦一下聯政署
transcript.whisperx[180].start 5845.182
transcript.whisperx[180].end 5867.758
transcript.whisperx[180].text 可以齁 答應了對不對拜託幫我們好好查清楚政府治理到底出了什麼問題為什麼經濟部明明講不可以事故50%以下結果這家公司可以一路從100趴趴趴趴趴到最後變成0那經濟部中間都已經說你如果再動我要罰你了結果到最後高高舉起400億輕輕放下3.5億
transcript.whisperx[181].start 5871.122
transcript.whisperx[181].end 5888.479
transcript.whisperx[181].text 這中間這麼大的一個所謂的變化那是中間有沒有土地的問題這些都拜託我們這個部長跟署長好好瞭解一下好不好我們來瞭解下一個問題我想請教部長為什麼要有掙扎不公開的設計
transcript.whisperx[182].start 5892.774
transcript.whisperx[182].end 5906.763
transcript.whisperx[182].text 為什麼要偵查不公開我那天跟你聊天的時候我有一個主張你有聽到了對不對我說我們行事訴訟法不要規定偵查不公開啦乾脆改成偵查大公開你贊不贊成直接再行訴法修偵查大公開你贊不贊成你贊不贊成我們還是要落實那個對啊你反對我也反對我是開玩笑的啊專業協會委員就知道我要問什麼
transcript.whisperx[183].start 5919.673
transcript.whisperx[183].end 5946.754
transcript.whisperx[183].text 我在虧你啦沒錯吧請問我們現在偵查不公開這個規定跟偵查大公開到底差別在哪裡我看不懂阿我看不出來阿我隨便舉個例子齁2019年到2023年齁偵查不公開案件檢討數7255件平均一年1450件部長你知道今年上半年檢查機關齁所謂列為檢討案件有多少件嗎今年上半年喔
transcript.whisperx[184].start 5948.558
transcript.whisperx[184].end 5953.165
transcript.whisperx[184].text 檢討的就檢討391件今年上半年齁總共列入要檢討是2035件
transcript.whisperx[185].start 5956.445
transcript.whisperx[185].end 5961.25
transcript.whisperx[185].text 新聞上到處都是偵查公開的訊息阿
transcript.whisperx[186].start 5979.272
transcript.whisperx[186].end 6003.179
transcript.whisperx[186].text 我跟部長說雖然時間不夠啦那我待會後希望您再針對這部分再告訴我你到底解決辦法是什麼但是我要特別強調一件事情我跟部長你也交流你們也覺得你們冤枉嘛不一定是檢察官嘛對不對我相信我們的辦案團隊可是跟部長跟你講我舉個例子我舉很快就講了你講那個論點已經跟我講300遍大概有了
transcript.whisperx[187].start 6004.275
transcript.whisperx[187].end 6032.002
transcript.whisperx[187].text 我也沒說我也沒證據因為我不是檢察官我沒辦案的那個工具我也不知道是不是檢察官洩漏可是我舉個例子今天偵查犯罪是檢察官的職責吧是不是他偵查主題對不對是吧沒錯吧你這個需要任務5秒不需要啦今天我如果跟你講說哇靠不得了我們這個今年上半年有2000多件竊盜案啊
transcript.whisperx[188].start 6033.806
transcript.whisperx[188].end 6048.23
transcript.whisperx[188].text 然後部長說這不是檢察官偷的你覺得這個交代的過去嗎2000多件竊竊案算不算是犯罪案件然後你跟我講你一個都沒抓到是因為這不是檢察官幹的你可以這樣講嗎我告訴你這個比喻非常貼近我今天直接跟你我就問你嘛來來來我跟問部長
transcript.whisperx[189].start 6060.216
transcript.whisperx[189].end 6085.238
transcript.whisperx[189].text 今天偵查不公開 是不是鐵針針的犯罪事實 天天在我們的報紙電視上上演這個媒體這些有報導的 這些報導的源頭在哪裡 這個不能夠說是不是從那個 不是欸 這個媒體報導的不是真實的這些 我要跟部長說 你要這麼違反這個所謂的我們大家能夠看到的眼見為憑的東西 我也佩服你
transcript.whisperx[190].start 6086.363
transcript.whisperx[190].end 6092.068
transcript.whisperx[190].text 今天就這麼多的洩密案在你眼前然後你最後跟我講一句說這不是檢察官洩的就當沒事了
transcript.whisperx[191].start 6093.174
transcript.whisperx[191].end 6117.854
transcript.whisperx[191].text 犯罪偵查我就請問嘛 那麼多泄密案在前面 你們有沒有去偵辦嘛 有沒有約談了誰 有啦 柯文哲案有啦 但是只有柯文哲案嗎 只有那位記者而已嗎好啦 我要主席都站起來 我也不為難主席啦 拜託齁不是啊 我要拜託您啦 真的 你自己列的新聞就那麼多 你辦出來績效是如何 難怪大家對偵查不公開不滿意 謝謝
transcript.whisperx[192].start 6119.808
transcript.whisperx[192].end 6121.369
transcript.whisperx[192].text 謝謝羅委員 謝謝部長 署長接下來請莊委員瑞雄質詢請政部長委員早
transcript.whisperx[193].start 6149.13
transcript.whisperx[193].end 6161.417
transcript.whisperx[193].text 不讓早我想首先我來針對一個時事題來就教一下你的看法是怎麼樣我今天看早上的一個質詢裡面大家幾乎在細節裡面
transcript.whisperx[194].start 6163.273
transcript.whisperx[194].end 6187.245
transcript.whisperx[194].text 那針對我看昨天媒體大家有看到了美國戰略跟國際問題研究中心發布關於這個中國反分裂國家法這個明年20週年那他們可能就是說他們要去修法去修法以後為以後使用武力統一台灣提供一個合法性我不曉得站在法務部你的立場裡面你的看法裡面這個到底我們是應該去修改國內法
transcript.whisperx[195].start 6193.234
transcript.whisperx[195].end 6193.494
transcript.whisperx[195].text 的確是反這個
transcript.whisperx[196].start 6218.548
transcript.whisperx[196].end 6234.037
transcript.whisperx[196].text 這個反分類國家法這部分的確是有造成我們臺灣我們我國人民的一些的這些的恐懼當然會那我想委員關心這問題這是非常重要的一個國安的一個問題
transcript.whisperx[197].start 6237.139
transcript.whisperx[197].end 6258.917
transcript.whisperx[197].text 這部分我們是贊成如果說有制定新法的必要的話當然以我們本部來講只能用國際法的觀念這部分詳細的是不是可以請調查局長來做一個答案可以啊我反而倒會認為說你至少法務部針對這一些你會認為說那是老共強得要死我們也不用去擬他
transcript.whisperx[198].start 6259.818
transcript.whisperx[198].end 6276.384
transcript.whisperx[198].text 你看昨天外交部發言人毛寧被問到這個問題的時候日本的記者就問他嘛他就直接講這個是中國的內政任何國家都不能干涉他的講法就非常強悍啦要比強悍他就叫做後懼小朋友我以為部長你會講得很強你知道嗎至少像面對這種問題不能說法務部都沒有關係阿好像就會覺得說沒辦法
transcript.whisperx[199].start 6286.562
transcript.whisperx[199].end 6287.464
transcript.whisperx[199].text 法務部這題幾乎都是缺席的我認為這不對
transcript.whisperx[200].start 6302.14
transcript.whisperx[200].end 6324.685
transcript.whisperx[200].text 我認為不對,你至少有很多智庫嘛,法務部裡面有很多專家嘛,既就法務部你還可以單槓一個,你適度的一個發言,這可以很有安定民心的一個作用啊,這不只是總統的成績,這也不是只有這個整個行政院的成績啊,你小小的一個中國的外交部的一個發言人,然後你就出來給你指三道四啦。
transcript.whisperx[201].start 6325.526
transcript.whisperx[201].end 6326.087
transcript.whisperx[201].text 法定人數不足
transcript.whisperx[202].start 6342.685
transcript.whisperx[202].end 6343.105
transcript.whisperx[202].text 這個聲音都太微弱
transcript.whisperx[203].start 6360.476
transcript.whisperx[203].end 6360.496
transcript.whisperx[203].text 王國興議員
transcript.whisperx[204].start 6380.594
transcript.whisperx[204].end 6393.764
transcript.whisperx[204].text 昨天剛好我也在外交國安委員會備詢那這部分我有跟沈伯陽委員也有做過討論那他也有提到說其實我們應該要在外犯罪的部分應該要有一個修法的一個表達
transcript.whisperx[205].start 6398.735
transcript.whisperx[205].end 6416.276
transcript.whisperx[205].text 你的態度是什麼?我們當然是非常的不同意啊,對啊,非常不同意中國這樣子的一個做法你不能跟人家說不同意啊,你不能跟人家說不同意啊,我認為這個在國會殿堂上這樣打都不及格啦然後你說不同意,你不同意那民眾說啊?法務部在司法委員裡面說不同意捏,這樣就好了?
transcript.whisperx[206].start 6419.045
transcript.whisperx[206].end 6420.186
transcript.whisperx[206].text 我是覺得這樣太過於微弱了 請回來我要來今天正入
transcript.whisperx[207].start 6438.86
transcript.whisperx[207].end 6439.06
transcript.whisperx[207].text 委員會主席
transcript.whisperx[208].start 6459.509
transcript.whisperx[208].end 6485.7
transcript.whisperx[208].text 這樣的一個討論有助於我們整個實質修法的一個建議在我們憲法第78條裡面去講司法院本來就是解釋憲法跟統一解釋法律跟命令所以大法官會議這樣的一個判決不要去談拘束力的當然一定會有拘束力所以我要請教部長的就是說就變成說我們大家在討論討論就是說如何針對整個程序讓它更完備
transcript.whisperx[209].start 6487.847
transcript.whisperx[209].end 6490.889
transcript.whisperx[209].text 立法院第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會第5次全體委員會
transcript.whisperx[210].start 6508.862
transcript.whisperx[210].end 6532.87
transcript.whisperx[210].text 14歲以下的那些你根本你也沒辦法自己安排那甚至於啊說你到如果說我們憲法的我們刑法的一個規定如果說14歲以上不到18歲他認為他的罪責能力就比較低甚至於80歲以上或者精神障礙甚至於陰陽或心智缺陷辨識能力在行為時他降低的時候這些都不得
transcript.whisperx[211].start 6533.67
transcript.whisperx[211].end 6549.58
transcript.whisperx[211].text 去處以極刑所以都要去減輕那至法律效果來講目前是減輕可是法律實務上我相信也沒有人會認為說未滿18歲或者說這一些看起來心智比較減弱的人去把他處以極刑就是死刑但是這次修法來看的話我不曉得針對憲判制這樣第8號提出來第7點部長你的看法未來整個修法的方向你會怎麼看
transcript.whisperx[212].start 6560
transcript.whisperx[212].end 6575.651
transcript.whisperx[212].text 這部分齁我們有提出那個根據這個憲法憲判意旨我們有就刑法63條做一個提出的一個修正的一個草案因為這個也是跟的也是配合那個憲法現在刑法19條的那當然啦那當然啦所以你現在就是說那個刑法63條那你從哪裡放進去
transcript.whisperx[213].start 6582.188
transcript.whisperx[213].end 6589.433
transcript.whisperx[213].text 本來我一直在想說你那個19條第二項後段本來是得檢清其刑嘛那些得你做一個修改我也不認為我們社會大眾會認為說這個就是在廢死了我們也不是什麼樣的狀況什麼樣的一個犯罪行為全部都會處罰到死刑或者無期徒刑那像這一種很明顯的在罪責
transcript.whisperx[214].start 6607.765
transcript.whisperx[214].end 6621.222
transcript.whisperx[214].text 他根本就不足以來在他行為階段的時候去辨識他在做這件事情的時候,或者判斷能力跟一般的正常人不一樣,他去做這樣一個犯罪行為的時候,你說要被處罰到那裡,那就是我們民間常常說的,就是笑的在他旁邊啦,就是笑的在那邊
transcript.whisperx[215].start 6626.71
transcript.whisperx[215].end 6627.651
transcript.whisperx[215].text 那我另外要來就教
transcript.whisperx[216].start 6653.673
transcript.whisperx[216].end 6674.284
transcript.whisperx[216].text 這個就是一個大問題了我們國家司法科學研究院組織法的一個進度跟建議我一直都認為立法院裡面當然在修法必須要去回應民意但是我們也必須要去謹慎牽一法而動全身在高度專業跟民意之間你必須要去做一個平衡
transcript.whisperx[217].start 6674.904
transcript.whisperx[217].end 6696.05
transcript.whisperx[217].text 我相信部長這邊應該也去看到了你們的業務報告要推動國家司法科學研究院在今年8月的時候就已經送行政院去審查以目前來看的話你這個組織法跟現行法務部法醫研究所你們到底有什麼具體的差別嗎我是不希望他只是換湯不換藥你的方向
transcript.whisperx[218].start 6704.887
transcript.whisperx[218].end 6722.772
transcript.whisperx[218].text 謝謝委員的關心那基本上就是說差距完全是不一樣的怎麼說呢我們如果升格為國家司法科學研究院的話我們會負責國家司法科學的一個政策的擬定還有這個
transcript.whisperx[219].start 6725.029
transcript.whisperx[219].end 6727.831
transcript.whisperx[219].text 我比較擔心的是當事人的防禦權的問題我們都很清楚
transcript.whisperx[220].start 6749.127
transcript.whisperx[220].end 6771.352
transcript.whisperx[220].text 在一個審判庭上齁所有沒有在審判庭揭示的證據除了那些例外以外全部都是傳聞喔那你這個如果升格以後提升上來以後他變成是一個權威的一個鑑定機構那你現在鑑定人除非雙方同意當事人同意或者那另外兩項例外不用倒庭
transcript.whisperx[221].start 6774.07
transcript.whisperx[221].end 6799.827
transcript.whisperx[221].text 我現在很擔心的是說你把它當成是一個我們修法完以後把它提升到整個國家司法科學研究院那你這個鑑定出來機關的名義出去那又變成形成傳聞法則的一個例外這樣到時候如果說你的這個鑑定過程裡面有出現問題的話
transcript.whisperx[222].start 6801.51
transcript.whisperx[222].end 6805.534
transcript.whisperx[222].text 司法研究院作出的一個鑑定報告是機關出去喔阿人不用倒庭這樣哪通這樣通嗎報委沒有這個問題阿為什麼沒有這個問題
transcript.whisperx[223].start 6823.798
transcript.whisperx[223].end 6838.19
transcript.whisperx[223].text 刑事訴訟法偵查審判的時候還是要由檢察官法官來指揮檢察官法官如果認為有必要還是可以傳鑑定人到場來作證我們上次在修去年在修刑事訴訟法這個地方就出現漏洞
transcript.whisperx[224].start 6841.285
transcript.whisperx[224].end 6857.592
transcript.whisperx[224].text 我們當初是在講說你那個例外是在講當事人民事同意還有依法執掌類型像譬如說內政部刑事警察局法務部調查局衛部司官署還是說主管機關認定的醫院實驗室團體符合這一些都不用出庭
transcript.whisperx[225].start 6860.009
transcript.whisperx[225].end 6860.81
transcript.whisperx[225].text 會不會有妨礙到當事人在訴訟上攻防有舉他的權益的問題
transcript.whisperx[226].start 6875.583
transcript.whisperx[226].end 6895.551
transcript.whisperx[226].text 法委沒有這個問題,原則上有政績能力,但是必要的時候,當事人、被告或律師還是可以來請求傳喚你講的那個是法院,如果案子我在審,當然我可以把鑑定人
transcript.whisperx[227].start 6896.551
transcript.whisperx[227].end 6922.8
transcript.whisperx[227].text 請到法院上來接受兩照或者是訴訟辯護人的他的一個他之間的一個結論嘛那當然可以那如果他不要呢他就直接跟你這樣講咧來來市長跟我們報告齁即使在機關鑑定的狀況下我們現行法規範還是可以請求他到院來說明跟這個相關鑑定的要到院說明他並沒有排除鑑定的到院說明可是因為我們有創設例外啊因為訴訟法現在有
transcript.whisperx[228].start 6924.401
transcript.whisperx[228].end 6940.641
transcript.whisperx[228].text 即使機關鑑定他現在多了一個他必須要拒明跟拒絕吧而且必須要到法院來說明他有規定我現在比較擔心的就是說對於不利益的一個鑑定喔那我們刑事訴訟裡面這樣的一個規定裡面那法官他也有可能我相信權威啊
transcript.whisperx[229].start 6941.93
transcript.whisperx[229].end 6952.232
transcript.whisperx[229].text 他沒有免除這個鑑定的道庭說明的義務未來還是要說明所以我是比較擔心不會造成這種狀況好謝謝謝謝莊委員謝謝部長次長跟接下來待會在鍾嘉斌委員質詢完畢我們休息10分鐘接下來有請吳委員中線質詢
transcript.whisperx[230].start 6973.251
transcript.whisperx[230].end 6976.015
transcript.whisperx[230].text 有請鄭部長委員好部長早
transcript.whisperx[231].start 6988.947
transcript.whisperx[231].end 7010.962
transcript.whisperx[231].text 今天主要還是就你們這次業務報告的有關憲法法庭死刑判決的核心解釋這部分去討論那我想說我們今天就不要聚焦在很混亂的地方而聚焦在精神心智缺陷或是精神障礙不得判處死刑就我們都很清楚這一次大法官其實
transcript.whisperx[232].start 7012.484
transcript.whisperx[232].end 7036.681
transcript.whisperx[232].text 這次大法官他的判決其實我個人認為這是一個完全宿愛裁判的一個憲判那他對於這個精神障礙的部分他從行為時、審判時跟執行時他設了三個關卡那這個都是以前沒有的概念那因為以前我們只知道刑法19條是以行為時為判斷基礎那這次大法官他直接又下了一大堆
transcript.whisperx[233].start 7038.387
transcript.whisperx[233].end 7063.846
transcript.whisperx[233].text 根本我覺得以前就從來沒想過的東西在裡面那這個處處其實很簡單嘛這就是實質廢死啦這就實質廢死這不用在那邊跟我們在那邊玩文字遊戲說這不叫實質廢死然後講了一大堆五四三的那個都在騙國人那部長你知不知道這次大法官有點名三個死刑犯就他們審理的時候有無金帳有無自我辯護的能力不得判死這個部長知道吧
transcript.whisperx[234].start 7065.112
transcript.whisperx[234].end 7068.176
transcript.whisperx[234].text 現行法律有規定審判時不得判死嗎?
transcript.whisperx[235].start 7086.072
transcript.whisperx[235].end 7086.773
transcript.whisperx[235].text 當初殺了他的媽媽、婆婆、先生的林于如
transcript.whisperx[236].start 7119.221
transcript.whisperx[236].end 7132.434
transcript.whisperx[236].text 大法官認為他審判的時候有精神障礙導致自我辨識能力不足不能判死刑而且兩年內要修法那這個東西他的律師說智能不足這個部長你知道是怎麼回事嗎
transcript.whisperx[237].start 7134.958
transcript.whisperx[237].end 7143.915
transcript.whisperx[237].text 這個是一個個案的話我不清楚他這個這個個案的智能不足的好那我跟你講齁這個他所謂個案的智能不足就是他在某一次
transcript.whisperx[238].start 7145.637
transcript.whisperx[238].end 7167.973
transcript.whisperx[238].text 審理的時候法官給他做智力測驗,測定他只有57那這個理由來當作不能判死刑的理由我這覺得是蠻離譜的啦因為你要知道一個智商110的人他要演成自己是57很容易那你57要演成110是很難那如果這樣子的話這種智能鑑定就可以當作是一個理由
transcript.whisperx[239].start 7168.954
transcript.whisperx[239].end 7175.344
transcript.whisperx[239].text 我只要做智力測驗我每一題都寫錯就好啦那我智力可能只剩下30啊所以我我真的覺得這個是
transcript.whisperx[240].start 7177.591
transcript.whisperx[240].end 7205.021
transcript.whisperx[240].text 大法官他的這些想法齁我也只能說看為觀止啦那大法官其實就是為這37個死刑犯在那邊秀喵喵要盡量的保護他們那像李玉如這個案子他在三省也有做延遲辯論所以他的程序完備那程序完備的時候大法官就幫他找一個理由說他曾經有救省能力有問題智力只有57然後這樣子來去做這樣子的對法務部的要求齁那我
transcript.whisperx[241].start 7206.581
transcript.whisperx[241].end 7225.151
transcript.whisperx[241].text 我個人完全不認同,我也希望說部長能夠稍微了解一下這個案子因為你們自己業務報告這個案件現在這個死刑犯的這些,確定死刑犯的這些現在是一憲判一職,現在就是要有總長來審核
transcript.whisperx[242].start 7228.238
transcript.whisperx[242].end 7230.039
transcript.whisperx[242].text 一個人在行為時他懂得用藥去處理他自己的先生
transcript.whisperx[243].start 7244.944
transcript.whisperx[243].end 7267.498
transcript.whisperx[243].text 那那個藥是什麼藥要去哪裡買我都不知道了結果他竟然知道他也知道要還賭債知道要詐領保險金知道要預謀殺人知道希望檢察官趕快給他的証明書這些他都清清楚楚他甚至比很多代書都還要厲害了比很多律師都還要懂了結果大家認為說他救省能力有問題這個就是我要點出來現在實務上面
transcript.whisperx[244].start 7269.287
transcript.whisperx[244].end 7298.165
transcript.whisperx[244].text 會遇到的一個問題就是當事人只要在庭上裝瘋賣傻在那邊填寫錯誤的智力測驗的答案那今天他就可以逃過死刑那這是我對於現在大法官的認定出來我的見解啦那當然我也是看看總長以後會怎麼做決策我們會去等著看嘛就大家來看看總長會怎麼做決定啦所以只以智力測驗就可以認定有無精神障礙心智缺陷我真的是完全的不認同
transcript.whisperx[245].start 7299.807
transcript.whisperx[245].end 7329.006
transcript.whisperx[245].text 那這個根本就是加上了以前法律19條以外根本就沒有這樣的規範嘛那加這個規範的目的是什麼我也不懂啦所以大法官現在變成是繼承法官的太上皇像林玉如的案子總共有19位法官審過結果就幾個大法官他最後做出來的先判決推翻了他們以前的死刑確定判決這我看到的整個程序走到今天就是這個樣子所以呢是不是大法官自己在違憲
transcript.whisperx[246].start 7330.287
transcript.whisperx[246].end 7330.848
transcript.whisperx[246].text 我自己的感覺是這樣
transcript.whisperx[247].start 7350.781
transcript.whisperx[247].end 7370.163
transcript.whisperx[247].text 我後來發現很多民眾把大法官跟法官混在一起了其實法官是法官大法官是大法官大法官是執政者任命的根本跟一般普通法院的法官不一樣很多人民搞錯了很多政治人物就故意在誤導人民這個方向那我的感覺是這樣今天執政者要這些大法官出來去幹盡他們想要幹的壞事
transcript.whisperx[248].start 7371.445
transcript.whisperx[248].end 7372.606
transcript.whisperx[248].text 法定人數不足
transcript.whisperx[249].start 7394.707
transcript.whisperx[249].end 7406.66
transcript.whisperx[249].text 不得執行實行這個變成你們都要去跟著這套法官這樣走嘛你們也沒有其他的辦法對不對然後我在 沒關係部長
transcript.whisperx[250].start 7408.544
transcript.whisperx[250].end 7435.187
transcript.whisperx[250].text 而且這次大法官的憲判制他對於修復式的正義 隻字未提他只在幫死刑犯逃脫死刑但是對於被害人我們這麼多年司法署上面一直講求的修復式正義大法官卻隻字未提他從來沒有去管過這一塊所以我真的不懂這大法官他到底心裡想的是什麼是為這些王八蛋政客在服務嗎部長我上次問過你
transcript.whisperx[251].start 7437.23
transcript.whisperx[251].end 7460.28
transcript.whisperx[251].text 非常上述成功之後回到普通法院審理回到普通法院審理之後就有無罪推定所以我們就把它當作這一群人都是無罪的人去做無罪推定那我也再三的跟你說除非除非有法官敢違法的下羈押的裁定不然這些人就要放出去欸你101條跟101條刑訴101條跟101條之一哪一些東西可以羈押清清楚楚
transcript.whisperx[252].start 7466.263
transcript.whisperx[252].end 7490.655
transcript.whisperx[252].text 所以法官要怎麼樣做違法的裁定呢?譬如說林玉如好了,智商57他出去要怎麼篡政?智商57有篡政的能力嗎?有逃亡的能力嗎?所以到底要怎麼樣認定一個智商57的人他出去有篡政逃亡之餘那請問一下法官要如何能夠違法的裁定機啊?那法官只要不裁定機啊,這37個人就有可能會出去啊
transcript.whisperx[253].start 7491.255
transcript.whisperx[253].end 7518.676
transcript.whisperx[253].text 甚至我們上次有講到了 羈押3個月 延押12個月延押12個月期滿了只有15個月根本就來不及審判完畢嘛那如果你還要再送精神鑑定或這些廢死團體幫他申請一次兩次的精神鑑定那就超過15個月啦那這些人是不是要放出來所以我在這邊要跟所有的人講這些人就是有可能其中一部分會被放出來會回歸到社會那部裡面有什麼做法
transcript.whisperx[254].start 7521.189
transcript.whisperx[254].end 7550.595
transcript.whisperx[254].text 那個先判第8號的判決意旨有提醒有提醒這個撤銷的這個最高法院會撤銷判決他那個要做注意羈押的問題重新的計算這個羈押的期間部長不要講這些廢話這個委員關心的是不是會放的問題我想這個個案我對案情是不是有沒有101條或101條之一的情形這個我沒辦法去做一個判斷但是我們檢查該做的我們會要求我們就會促請法官去
transcript.whisperx[255].start 7551.475
transcript.whisperx[255].end 7554.777
transcript.whisperx[255].text 我相信法官有他的智慧會去審酌這個被告應該羈押的理由
transcript.whisperx[256].start 7567.583
transcript.whisperx[256].end 7591.019
transcript.whisperx[256].text 不是因為部長不要繞圈子嘛我們都很內行刑訴訟法這個這些人就可能不被押或超過羈押的期限而被放出來回歸到社會只要有一個人回歸到社會部長這個對目前的執政黨已經對您都是重大的傷害我在這邊只能這樣子跟你說反正你跟我繞圈子我也聽不到我問了兩個禮拜我還是聽不到我要的答案那就算了齁
transcript.whisperx[257].start 7591.88
transcript.whisperx[257].end 7615.056
transcript.whisperx[257].text 然後我再來跟你們報告一件事情從鐵路殺警案一審無罪二審有罪整個精神鑑定是天翻地覆看起來就是精神鑑定跟DNA的鑑定不一樣DNA鑑定準確率非常高但精神鑑定常常翻來覆去那會不會變成是很多團體把你精神鑑定到反正有一天要出到他的答案就可以所以
transcript.whisperx[258].start 7615.794
transcript.whisperx[258].end 7616.074
transcript.whisperx[258].text 好最後齁
transcript.whisperx[259].start 7638.332
transcript.whisperx[259].end 7658.06
transcript.whisperx[259].text 我認為啦就是因為我們對於羈押的要件我們都很清楚嘛所以這37個死刑犯最後回到普通法院無罪推定之後確實很有可能法官根本無法羈押因為與法不合嘛那與法不合的情況下這37個很快就放出來或是超過羈押的期間就放出來
transcript.whisperx[260].start 7658.72
transcript.whisperx[260].end 7668.135
transcript.whisperx[260].text 所以一定要詳實的告訴這個社會部長你上一次在巡打的時候謝謝你很有勇氣的告訴我們說確實沒有把握他們能夠繼續壓著
transcript.whisperx[261].start 7670.798
transcript.whisperx[261].end 7698.552
transcript.whisperx[261].text 謝謝你至少你上次是有勇氣啦因為這個時機啊這是屬於法對這個是事實而不是上次吳思堯那樣子胡說八道那邊政客亂帶風向我想我們檢察會盡量做我們檢察官職責的權利去做我們職責的事情謝謝謝謝部長我想說委員你也是當過檢察我們能夠做我們會全力說我想窮勢一列力量不讓這些人走入市場部長為什麼我對這次那麼生氣是因為我真的很重視社會治安因為我覺得這是所有人都希望的我們都不希望有一個殺人犯
transcript.whisperx[262].start 7699.568
transcript.whisperx[262].end 7725.179
transcript.whisperx[262].text 回到社會然後如果你住同一個社區你坐電梯會跟他一起坐你心裡會不會害怕我今天在想的只是這個東西所以我是跟部長報告一件事情在我心中齁我覺得政客齁為的是下一次選舉政治家為的是下一代的幸福然後我很謝謝部長上次有勇氣把話說出來這些人確實有可能將來會回歸到社會
transcript.whisperx[263].start 7726.854
transcript.whisperx[263].end 7747.791
transcript.whisperx[263].text 我是希望說我覺得所有的官員們跟大法官都不要都不要像這些法盲的政客一樣在那邊在那邊裝傻在那邊講出與法不合的事實這是我的期待所以我上次也說在場其實有非常多法官假官的學長們我如果今天我在法律的部分我有講錯都歡迎來批評我
transcript.whisperx[264].start 7749.412
transcript.whisperx[264].end 7769.108
transcript.whisperx[264].text 但是我今天就是要在這邊要告訴大家這37個死刑犯真的有部分人很快的會回歸到社會這個我不贊成這種的說法我對法官要有信心我想這個是三審定讞的三審定讞的而且憲判一十八號也提醒這個法官要注意其他的問題而且他給人要重新計算部長
transcript.whisperx[265].start 7769.568
transcript.whisperx[265].end 7770.028
transcript.whisperx[265].text 法定人數不足
transcript.whisperx[266].start 7785.114
transcript.whisperx[266].end 7806.623
transcript.whisperx[266].text 他對於羈押的要件這些人不符合啊所以當我們對法官有信心他一把下裁定就是不能押嘛那你也只能這樣講嘛我沒有懲辦這個個案所以我不能講但是我想我們會要求檢察官去窮一切的力量去建立法官羈押
transcript.whisperx[267].start 7807.463
transcript.whisperx[267].end 7811.667
transcript.whisperx[267].text 部長你講的沒錯就是你能做的以及現在檢察官能做所以這個問題的話你講的都沒錯部長你講的完全正確
transcript.whisperx[268].start 7823.378
transcript.whisperx[268].end 7846.597
transcript.whisperx[268].text 確實你可以請檢察官 積極的請法官裁定羈押但我這邊要告訴部長的是 法官依法 如果真的依法處理的話我如果是這些3、7個人的律師 我就跟你打 他就不符合羈押的要件嘛這個問題喔 我想說由司法院陳辦法官來回答這個問題 這個會比較比我還...好 部長 OK 你這樣的回答我接受 但是我就是要告訴你 他們就是可能不押 就這麼簡單
transcript.whisperx[269].start 7848.157
transcript.whisperx[269].end 7863.476
transcript.whisperx[269].text 他就是可能不押否則你跟我講他們符合什麼逃亡之餘符合什麼篡政之餘如果這個都沒有那也沒有那個關了20幾年也沒有反復實施之餘請問一下你可以創設新的法律來叫法官裁定羈押嗎
transcript.whisperx[270].start 7864.477
transcript.whisperx[270].end 7867.059
transcript.whisperx[270].text 這不是智慧的問題這是法律的問題我國是法治國家部長檢察官們是聰明人我是笨蛋嗎我沒有辦法看懂法律嗎你今天講了什麼話
transcript.whisperx[271].start 7885.39
transcript.whisperx[271].end 7906.306
transcript.whisperx[271].text 我不懂你這什麼意思嘛我剛已經說了你講的話我能夠認同就是你可以請檢察官積極的去向法官審理羈押但是我在這裡也告訴你依據我國現行刑事訴訟法的規定法官要押的理由在哪裡我真的還是想不到我問了超過20個我的同學的法官他們也說依照現行法就是沒有辦法押
transcript.whisperx[272].start 7908.22
transcript.whisperx[272].end 7908.68
transcript.whisperx[272].text 我可以接受你這句話
transcript.whisperx[273].start 7928.738
transcript.whisperx[273].end 7930.14
transcript.whisperx[273].text 致以法官那部份我想法官有他的智慧
transcript.whisperx[274].start 7964.602
transcript.whisperx[274].end 7990.661
transcript.whisperx[274].text 好,下一位我們請鍾嘉斌委員發言主席、財政委員、先進列席政務集團所長、官員、會長、工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生那麼有請我們的鄭部長還有我兩司的孟司長好,孟司長稍微好等一下
transcript.whisperx[275].start 7992.52
transcript.whisperx[275].end 8020.448
transcript.whisperx[275].text 好部長好師長好來部長那個我昨天齁司法法制委員會安排考察你知道吧部長我們去看屏東地院和屏東地檢那麼我們是希望未來能夠留住司法人才為屏東鄉親服務不管是法官還是檢察官我們要考量他們的居住需求而且未來的司法園區能夠考量到便民可能像包括行政執行署他們這些相關的機構都能納進來請問你知不知這樣的做法
transcript.whisperx[276].start 8022.626
transcript.whisperx[276].end 8046.9
transcript.whisperx[276].text 委員對我們非常的感謝委員的對我們的支持好謝謝那後續請你要指派專人我希望包括跟行政執行署還有國產署還有司法院都會邀請他們那當然最重要的就是要敦請我們屏東縣政府一起來共同參與希望部長來用力推動好不好謝謝來我們來看一下來請問部長有沒有看到這個新聞
transcript.whisperx[277].start 8047.84
transcript.whisperx[277].end 8061.735
transcript.whisperx[277].text 外國人在外國犯了罪逃到台灣要如何論罪?這個新聞說有個西班牙裔的他義大利色詐騙來到台灣之後呢身份就接入了後來您知道台灣要怎麼處理嗎?你有知道這個新聞嗎?這個有這樣的一個新聞那他怎麼處理?
transcript.whisperx[278].start 8067.583
transcript.whisperx[278].end 8093.935
transcript.whisperx[278].text 這個移民署移民署有說什麼移民署有在限期出境要驅逐出境就是有10月10號有通知他到岸說是要在台灣把他抓起來審理還是引渡回學去西班牙還是義大利還是要驅逐出境現在是要求出境那台灣跟西班牙義大利國際刑事組織有沒有互助條約我們怎麼樣掌握這些國際通緝犯在台的動向這個我是請市長的回答
transcript.whisperx[279].start 8094.343
transcript.whisperx[279].end 8094.363
transcript.whisperx[279].text 市長簡單講
transcript.whisperx[280].start 8112.449
transcript.whisperx[280].end 8113.169
transcript.whisperx[280].text 台灣人在台灣涉案之後跑到日本去
transcript.whisperx[281].start 8140.788
transcript.whisperx[281].end 8148.402
transcript.whisperx[281].text 怎麼辦?我們有一個2023年有台日有簽訂司法合作備忘錄可以視訊詢問還是可以引渡回台?
transcript.whisperx[282].start 8150.134
transcript.whisperx[282].end 8178.081
transcript.whisperx[282].text 有關台日的這個合作備忘錄是在法律的一些相關的資料交換上面有這樣的一個所以跟涉案人的部分沒有關聯還不達到來我們往下看現在就規定啦聽說有一個涉及到目前這個檢聯正在調查中的案子的關係人呢可能是證人可能要傳喚他已經跑到日本去了那麼結果呢這個人在日本日本政府可以怎麼處理他他可以一直躲在日本嗎
transcript.whisperx[283].start 8180.843
transcript.whisperx[283].end 8203.91
transcript.whisperx[283].text 先不要問司長了,部長你覺得咧?但是媒體說除非遭驅逐出境,因為台日沒有簽司法附註,沒有辦法遣返,是不是這樣子?是這樣子嗎?所以只要這個人沒有違反日本的法律就可以繼續停留在日本,我們無奈他何,對不對?是不是這樣子?在日本沒有違法,日本就不會驅逐他出境嗎?有沒有?
transcript.whisperx[284].start 8205.489
transcript.whisperx[284].end 8231.457
transcript.whisperx[284].text 其實過往這種例子我們的警方都會設法透過比如說國際刑警組織或者是跟日本的這個警方透過警方的這個合作關係然後希望他們能夠怎麼樣他在日本沒有犯法日本警方奈他何其實我們很多在第三國犯罪的這些台灣的在台灣犯罪他在日本沒有犯罪你怎麼到日本警方把他送出來這個部分
transcript.whisperx[285].start 8235.236
transcript.whisperx[285].end 8257.157
transcript.whisperx[285].text 部長知道原因了齁往下看所以其實這個是互助啦相對的台灣人在外國犯罪我們可不可以把他引渡回國我們也看到一些我們當然是反對毒品的販運但是的確我們看到一些個案有些台灣的年輕人在泰國在東南亞這些國家是對毒品管制很嚴格的他幫人家帶登機箱被抓到了關在泰國的監獄裡面
transcript.whisperx[286].start 8258.53
transcript.whisperx[286].end 8268.473
transcript.whisperx[286].text 你覺得這樣的臺灣的人法務部會希望將國人引渡回臺來臺灣接受這個論罪判刑甚至接受我們的剿制嗎那我想這個引渡也就是回國來接受是嗎那這些泰國有沒有沒有嘛越南有沒有
transcript.whisperx[287].start 8281.857
transcript.whisperx[287].end 8298.712
transcript.whisperx[287].text 委員我們跟泰國跟越南都沒有簽署任何引渡的條約都沒有也沒有任何的互助嗎所以如果國人因為在其他國家像泰國或越南不慎犯了當地的重罪他大概就注定要在那邊關一輩子很可能是這樣嗎是不是這樣
transcript.whisperx[288].start 8299.738
transcript.whisperx[288].end 8324.772
transcript.whisperx[288].text 您現在是說如果他在那邊當地犯罪被判刑被入監復刑的那個是涉及到受刑人移交的問題是那怎麼移交我們有沒有也是有司法互助的範圍嗎我們有受刑人移交法有受刑人移交部長那就是我今天要問的往下我們的結論小潔請是不是積極推動我們國兩司的國際的司法互助防止嫌犯出國也能夠順利不管是引渡還是移交回國內來處刑來執行可不可以
transcript.whisperx[289].start 8328.032
transcript.whisperx[289].end 8352.048
transcript.whisperx[289].text 願不願意自己來處理我們會自己來處理好來我們往下看來部長最近有一些社會新聞未照車牌很多人被害你覺得為什麼什麼樣的案件會未照車牌舉個例子以前看警匪騙歹徒作案之前搶銀行都是先偷髒車偷了車髒車做完案燒掉對不對是不是這樣子為什麼要用髒車犯罪
transcript.whisperx[290].start 8353.269
transcript.whisperx[290].end 8353.409
transcript.whisperx[290].text 委員會主席
transcript.whisperx[291].start 8373.68
transcript.whisperx[291].end 8374.541
transcript.whisperx[291].text 法定人數不足
transcript.whisperx[292].start 8396.789
transcript.whisperx[292].end 8420.384
transcript.whisperx[292].text 我有去報私嘛是不是這樣子我有去報私那基本上大概作案就跟我無關了嘛而且我報私之後警方會幫忙查這個是髒車歹徒拿去作案可能容易被抓到所以往下看現在這個偽造車牌呢就是因為車主不知道沒有人去報案車子也沒有掛也沒有報私所以呢他繼續用這個車輛的去作案製造的斷點是不是這樣是
transcript.whisperx[293].start 8421.445
transcript.whisperx[293].end 8447.076
transcript.whisperx[293].text 那他這段時間的交通回歸都算誰的算原車主的那車主怎麼辦吃罰單然後呢要去監理站要去撤銷要去舉證然後呢還要換車牌部長你知道嗎換車牌要不要錢要這又跑這些行政作業要不要時間要然後呢這個民眾無辜的民眾呢被人家調查他舉證說那個車子不是我的要不要花工夫要那部長怎麼辦
transcript.whisperx[294].start 8449.395
transcript.whisperx[294].end 8463.164
transcript.whisperx[294].text 你知道衛照車牌有多重嗎?有多重的罪嗎?新法212它是一年以下局域跟九千的罰金一年以下所以就知道了吧偷車拿髒車去翻案跟衛照車牌哪個罪比較重?
transcript.whisperx[295].start 8465.874
transcript.whisperx[295].end 8491.899
transcript.whisperx[295].text 當然是偷車去追比較重啊衛照車牌什麼但是這是民國17年修正通過的當時說考量到什麼基於謀生意識便利這是民國17年的法律啊民國113年欸衛照車牌算不算衛照公文書特種文書那為什麼衛照特種文書是重罪啊那為什麼只有判一年以下因為刑法212條嘛
transcript.whisperx[296].start 8493.971
transcript.whisperx[296].end 8497.987
transcript.whisperx[296].text 他把他排除在衛照特種文書之外部長要不要修法
transcript.whisperx[297].start 8498.992
transcript.whisperx[297].end 8525.873
transcript.whisperx[297].text 這部分我們已經納入那個行修小組的會議那個在11月份下個月就會開會你們怎麼方向修法方向是把它排除視同偽造文書還是不是偽造文書但是加重其刑他有兩種的一個方式立法的方式一種是在直接在212來修法因為一種就是比照附照條例附集法再倒交條例新增特別的那要罰多少要怎麼處罰怎麼量刑
transcript.whisperx[298].start 8528.257
transcript.whisperx[298].end 8546.458
transcript.whisperx[298].text 那這部分還在研修小組再做一個討論那不會是一年以下吧偷車要多少年?竊盜罪幾年?竊盜罪幾年?竊盜罪是五年以下五年以下嘛所以我就不要去偷張車了嘛我未照車牌就好了嘛一年以下嘛方向是多少?加重到幾年?市長請說
transcript.whisperx[299].start 8548.547
transcript.whisperx[299].end 8576.597
transcript.whisperx[299].text 報告委員這個212的議題本來在這個15號就是前天的行修小組要討論對但因為我們討論的方向有兩種一個就是212把它廢除掉並到就直接用公文書的刑度來處罰另外一種方向就212加重刑度的一個方式那因為15號來不及討論會下個月就排進去我們行修小組好下個月部長本席有提案啦齁部長那你覺得
transcript.whisperx[300].start 8577.639
transcript.whisperx[300].end 8604.266
transcript.whisperx[300].text 要加重處刑吧?要不要?這個應該可以要調整心情但是我不只要求這個還要怎樣?還要補償什麼?受害人受害人不是犯罪受害人喔被偽造車牌車主他花的這些時間這些困擾要不要補償他?怎麼補償?偽造車牌的人能夠補償這個車牌的原車主嗎?你們有沒有一個犯罪被害人的一個基金?請問一下我的車牌被人家偽造了我花那麼多功夫
transcript.whisperx[301].start 8605.185
transcript.whisperx[301].end 8605.745
transcript.whisperx[301].text 法定人數不足
transcript.whisperx[302].start 8633.676
transcript.whisperx[302].end 8650.492
transcript.whisperx[302].text 這個案子很簡單嘛法官看一看你要民事訴訟啊那就賠多少啊大概有個數字啊你們難道要逼著我們法院跟這個車牌的車主被害人去走這個途徑嗎有沒有辦法在我們的法制上予以一個通案的設定讓他很簡易的就可以得到補償部長有沒有可能考慮一下
transcript.whisperx[303].start 8655.714
transcript.whisperx[303].end 8667.322
transcript.whisperx[303].text 我們可以研議可以研議好我們希望偽造車牌這幾年基礎越演越烈都跟詐騙有關以前偷車拿張車去犯案都是暴力犯罪
transcript.whisperx[304].start 8668.476
transcript.whisperx[304].end 8669.277
transcript.whisperx[304].text 法定人數不足
transcript.whisperx[305].start 8691.277
transcript.whisperx[305].end 8713.749
transcript.whisperx[305].text 那現在這麼多如果不及時的修法遏止會有越來越多不只是詐騙案還有很多車牌被偽造的車主他有很大的損失是不是就是說我們考量一下要補償這些受害人好不好演繹一下是可以嗎好我們先演繹好謝謝好那我們就現在依照先前的宣告休息10分鐘
transcript.whisperx[306].start 9323.203
transcript.whisperx[306].end 9326.366
transcript.whisperx[306].text 好 我們繼續開會 現在有請翁委員小林質詢有請鄭部長有請鄭部長
transcript.whisperx[307].start 9347.538
transcript.whisperx[307].end 9356.015
transcript.whisperx[307].text 首先請教部長,您上星期的國慶日,您有去參加總統府前的國慶大會嗎?有。您當時坐在哪?
transcript.whisperx[308].start 9357.027
transcript.whisperx[308].end 9362.969
transcript.whisperx[308].text 我想請問一下您當天與貪汙犯陳水扁同台您的內心感受是如何?
transcript.whisperx[309].start 9381.548
transcript.whisperx[309].end 9408.854
transcript.whisperx[309].text 這份我是沒有注意到你沒有注意到?陳水扁當天是參加國慶大典但是我沒有去看他坐在哪裡所以您不知道他會要參加國慶是有這個訊息說會參加國慶所以這個事情你有同意嗎?所以他事前有向矯正署臺中監獄有申請核准可以參加國慶大會嗎?
transcript.whisperx[310].start 9410.654
transcript.whisperx[310].end 9419.993
transcript.whisperx[310].text 這部分是台中建立在做一個處理那矯正署不知道嗎那我是不是請矯正署來待會回答今天周署長有來是不是
transcript.whisperx[311].start 9425.578
transcript.whisperx[311].end 9444.575
transcript.whisperx[311].text 他每個月都會派人過去探視那針對國慶這個陳水扁他本身在9月24號的時候台中間有特別叮嚀他有這個相關活動務必要事先來報告
transcript.whisperx[312].start 9446.036
transcript.whisperx[312].end 9459.224
transcript.whisperx[312].text 那在9號那時候還沒有那台中建議在9號10月9號的時候有主動掌握了那個陳水扁要出席我們10月10號的國慶大典
transcript.whisperx[313].start 9461.545
transcript.whisperx[313].end 9476.032
transcript.whisperx[313].text 那所以那個我們臺中監獄也有派專人到場說證來那即初步的了解因為這是慶籌會國慶籌備委員會的一個邀請卡而且總統府也有專人打電話給陳水扁先生要這個慶祝國家的幸福好簡單來說就是因為呢上面的這個總統說要邀陳水扁
transcript.whisperx[314].start 9491.88
transcript.whisperx[314].end 9501.548
transcript.whisperx[314].text 臺中監獄雖然前一天就掌握了資訊可是沒有辦法還只能夠陪同去蒐證然後也沒有說是直接告訴陳水扁你不能夠參加國慶大會我必須要講這件事情
transcript.whisperx[315].start 9516.052
transcript.whisperx[315].end 9544.077
transcript.whisperx[315].text 在本席的這個眼裡我認為他就是一個司法的這個最大的一個恥辱當天陳水扁坐在這個VVIP的這個貴賓席上面後面是司法院院長然後部長您也是在這個另外可能不是正中間的主席台旁邊的貴賓席您怎麼可能會不知道陳水扁會參加國慶大典
transcript.whisperx[316].start 9545.779
transcript.whisperx[316].end 9561.025
transcript.whisperx[316].text 一個貪汙犯跟我們現在的司法機關的最重要的兩位首長同台很狠的將司法尊嚴踩在腳下這不是司法最大的挫敗跟恥辱嗎我必須說
transcript.whisperx[317].start 9567.145
transcript.whisperx[317].end 9568.866
transcript.whisperx[317].text 報告委員可以容我回答嗎?
transcript.whisperx[318].start 9582.325
transcript.whisperx[318].end 9605.474
transcript.whisperx[318].text 請說你委員報告這次陳水扁出席國慶大典他是由慶酬會來邀請的而且是經過慶酬會有慶酬會的角色但是你們可以不同意是不是過去你們這個有同意過嗎好我們看一下下一頁基本上對於陳水扁
transcript.whisperx[319].start 9609.435
transcript.whisperx[319].end 9635.721
transcript.whisperx[319].text 他已經保外就醫將近10年現在已經延長了39次了我不知道臺中監獄這10年來對於陳水扁的表現是視若無睹嗎他可以主持廣播節目他可以代理他的女兒去當訴訟的律師然後呢參加各式各樣的活動然後甚至還參加國慶大典
transcript.whisperx[320].start 9638.168
transcript.whisperx[320].end 9665.935
transcript.whisperx[320].text 在陳水扁的眼裡,他會認為說你們會不同意嗎?你們過去都沒有修正嗎?有,報告委員,我們臺中建議會依照我們保外意志的審核基準跟管理辦法來做相關的修正所以呢,修正之後的結果呢?陳水扁的這些行為符合你們自己所定的這個審核基準的辦法嗎?
transcript.whisperx[321].start 9667.233
transcript.whisperx[321].end 9685.086
transcript.whisperx[321].text 他是日常生活所必須嗎?參加國慶大典是他日常生活所必須嗎?擔任他的女兒的訴訟代理人是主持廣播節目是跟他生活有關嗎?是,臺中建議會參考高雄義大跟高雄長庚醫院的遺囑
transcript.whisperx[322].start 9687.108
transcript.whisperx[322].end 9705.81
transcript.whisperx[322].text 包括他的出遊黃遊去山他是醫主上面認為對他的治療是有正面意義的好所以呢治療到現在10年了確實是頗有成效他是完全恢復正常這樣的情況之下為什麼他可以不重返回到監獄裡面去服刑
transcript.whisperx[323].start 9707.389
transcript.whisperx[323].end 9731.449
transcript.whisperx[323].text 全國人民都在看都在看你法務部怎麼做報告委員陳水扁的身心狀況他還是有必要再做職能治療的他不是說已經我一直說他未來出獄之後他還要這個工作嗎事實證明他的職能恢復的很好啊還幫他的女兒去當訴訟律師啊
transcript.whisperx[324].start 9733.641
transcript.whisperx[324].end 9755.2
transcript.whisperx[324].text 主長您今天說這句話您都不覺得慚愧嗎?你曉得現在保外就醫的受刑人在保外就醫的期間他的死亡率有多高?你知道嗎?我們常常看到新聞保外就醫的受刑人可能短短一兩個月的時間可能就往生了
transcript.whisperx[325].start 9757.094
transcript.whisperx[325].end 9758.715
transcript.whisperx[325].text 報告委員我們委員應該有收到我們的數據我們累積今年總共有499位在外面保外遺址那今年累積到9月份有129人死了
transcript.whisperx[326].start 9781.567
transcript.whisperx[326].end 9803.744
transcript.whisperx[326].text 我希望矯正署、法務部這裡你們可以把保外就醫的這個受刑人他們出獄的治療的期間還有什麼時候回去以及他的死亡是出獄他的保外就醫在外面多久的時間之內他就是就往生你們要把這些數據全部講得清清楚楚
transcript.whisperx[327].start 9804.994
transcript.whisperx[327].end 9824.827
transcript.whisperx[327].text 本席昨天研究了這張表我看了很久我後來今天重新計算我告訴你大概就是像是人權促進會講的啦出去一半以上五六成的這個保衛就醫的受刑人都會往生而且事實上本來就是他如果不是很嚴重的疾病你戒護就醫就可以了啊
transcript.whisperx[328].start 9828.769
transcript.whisperx[328].end 9838.913
transcript.whisperx[328].text 講證書臺中監獄乃至於這個政部長我真的希望你們能夠把司法的公平正義隨時要放在心裡放在你們的腦海裡啊今天為什麼陳水扁的這個事情會讓可能慶仇會也忘記了也淡忘了全社會的人都淡忘了他是一個貪污犯他被判刑20年
transcript.whisperx[329].start 9855.117
transcript.whisperx[329].end 9873.2
transcript.whisperx[329].text 為什麼到現在法院可以停審這麼久而我們的檢察官也沒有主動的向法院提起說要繼續審判這個停止事件 停審的事件那個臺北地檢署有多次的發函
transcript.whisperx[330].start 9874.605
transcript.whisperx[330].end 9880.408
transcript.whisperx[330].text 盾請法院要開始麻煩請把這個數據給我至少以後我不會誤會說地檢署失職這是很嚴重的問題我們刑法裡面其實都有處罰濫權不起訴或不處罰或不執行處罰的罪那這個相關的數據我就在跟我們在書面今天講到這個事情其實我真的認為全台灣的人民都在看
transcript.whisperx[331].start 9904.485
transcript.whisperx[331].end 9930.753
transcript.whisperx[331].text 我已經不止一次的從我擔任立法委員以來我就一直很在意這個事情為什麼 如果說是認為陳水扁他之前當過總統那現在都民進黨執政已經前面8年接下來未來4年那念在過去的情分上總統就給他特赦啊 我也沒有意見啊但是在沒有特赦的情況之下為什麼可以容許一個
transcript.whisperx[332].start 9933.391
transcript.whisperx[332].end 9940.236
transcript.whisperx[332].text 這個保外就醫長達10年的這個受刑人貪污犯:可以參加各式各樣的活動慶典說不過去了大法官他這個做了死刑合憲的有條件合憲設了那麼多的門檻這已經引起了這個民情的重憤我相信陳水扁的事情同樣也是
transcript.whisperx[333].start 9957.714
transcript.whisperx[333].end 9970.197
transcript.whisperx[333].text 你知道網絡上面怎麼講嗎10月10號是我們的國慶日沒有錯全部的人都很開心都要慶祝這個國慶日但同時也是司法的這個司法支持日啊很難想像這樣的一個這麼明顯的一個受刑人貪污犯竟然可以後面做的事司法院院長還有法務部部長情何以堪
transcript.whisperx[334].start 9988.578
transcript.whisperx[334].end 10013.351
transcript.whisperx[334].text 好我本來還有準備另外一題不過沒關係我就等到下一次我希望法務部還有矯正署你們可以呢將這個保外就醫的受刑人就是如同你們是表格上面所寫的再多增加幾個類這個這個項目他保外就醫的每平均大家的時間是多少然後多少的時間之內就會往生
transcript.whisperx[335].start 10015.01
transcript.whisperx[335].end 10035.016
transcript.whisperx[335].text 對很多的數據資料都要公開要讓民眾瞭解你們到底做了些什麼每一次他的核准為什麼他可以核准他都可以在外面活動這些資訊難道不應該公開嗎麻煩你們一個月之內給我一份報告好謝謝好那麼請部長會後提供好謝謝我們歐委員謝謝部長謝謝署長接下來請紅委員孟凱諮詢
transcript.whisperx[336].start 10046.728
transcript.whisperx[336].end 10067.753
transcript.whisperx[336].text 主席謝謝麻煩請部長有請正部長剛剛是角政署署長是不是一起好不好周署長來我本來沒有打算要問這題啦但是因為剛剛翁小連委員這樣子詢問那署長特別回復說也有建議說這個受刑人陳水扁說不要出席這個國慶大典是不是
transcript.whisperx[337].start 10068.834
transcript.whisperx[337].end 10070.617
transcript.whisperx[337].text 陳水扁受刑人每天主持節目
transcript.whisperx[338].start 10082.028
transcript.whisperx[338].end 10107.833
transcript.whisperx[338].text 我之前在司法法制委員會的時候我就已經有質詢過了那我甚至那個時候我講是說我們連民進黨籍的立法委員高雄、台南想要拚2026市長的也全部都輪番上陣去上他的一個政論節目去上他的專訪所以他從他四步不受訪變成是他現在主動訪問別人了有沒有 台中監獄這邊有沒有曾經提過說要求他不能做這樣的行為
transcript.whisperx[339].start 10108.633
transcript.whisperx[339].end 10129.246
transcript.whisperx[339].text 報告委員 這個部分台中建議都有掌握陳薛扁有事先報告 要邀請哪位所以他事先報告就可以通過這跟事部跟之前事部的關係是完全背道而馳你當時的事部有沒有一組的一個佐證
transcript.whisperx[340].start 10130.026
transcript.whisperx[340].end 10130.647
transcript.whisperx[340].text 所以你現在收證的結果怎麼樣?
transcript.whisperx[341].start 10151.085
transcript.whisperx[341].end 10165.765
transcript.whisperx[341].text 現在就是讓他每一個要選舉的人都上他的專訪然後暢所欲言然後網路上都可以看到這是醫學奇蹟了已經台灣司法的奇蹟醫學的奇蹟
transcript.whisperx[342].start 10168.41
transcript.whisperx[342].end 10168.99
transcript.whisperx[342].text 法務部很重要
transcript.whisperx[343].start 10198.486
transcript.whisperx[343].end 10223.188
transcript.whisperx[343].text 法務部很重要那其中本席有看到上一次我也提到就是說針對這個毒品氾濫的部分尤其是毒價也造成我們新北的這個所長的一個不幸往生的狀況那其中我們現在看到是說喪失毒品確實已經有在8月份的時候先列為三級毒品了那但是我們要問兩個部分一個
transcript.whisperx[344].start 10224.369
transcript.whisperx[344].end 10247.865
transcript.whisperx[344].text 新興毒品掌握的狀況到底我們有沒有超前部署因為這個過去這個所謂的上司毒品啊已經快一年的時間沒有去做一個納管所以說現在才緊急八月份便列為三級毒品那從列毒品拖了一年大家講是說這是不是有帶多一個狀況那另外
transcript.whisperx[345].start 10249.284
transcript.whisperx[345].end 10251.907
transcript.whisperx[345].text 這麼容易取得的這樣新興毒品僅列3級你覺得夠嗎?
transcript.whisperx[346].start 10255.247
transcript.whisperx[346].end 10255.887
transcript.whisperx[346].text 請要說明好不好
transcript.whisperx[347].start 10286.468
transcript.whisperx[347].end 10303.536
transcript.whisperx[347].text 關於新興毒品,其實法務部有一套監測機制,它設在一個檢測平台,它是向未來監測,所以如果有一些新興毒品還沒有列入我們毒品來管制的話,我們透過監測機制達到一定程度的話,就會回到我們的毒品審議委會
transcript.whisperx[348].start 10304.036
transcript.whisperx[348].end 10322.073
transcript.whisperx[348].text 本席有看到而過去本席也知道有這樣的一個機制但現在我想請教全世界每年都會有這個所謂的毒品報告聯合國出的目前2024年聯合國所出全世界的毒品有多少跟委員報告這個NPS就是全世界的毒品報告事實上也是我們的監測機制的範圍
transcript.whisperx[349].start 10323.815
transcript.whisperx[349].end 10324.936
transcript.whisperx[349].text 司法及法制委員會議
transcript.whisperx[350].start 10342.506
transcript.whisperx[350].end 10367.502
transcript.whisperx[350].text 跟委員報告最新列的我們都列入了除非他是在上次毒品委會之後又再重新列的要不然目前為止新新的我們都把它列了來回來部長部長本期為什麼會提到這樣子因為我特別也去查了我們法務部的相關的新聞在2020年的時候有針對新新毒品的部分一口氣認列了299項毒品達到我們現在管制的638項毒品那
transcript.whisperx[351].start 10371.545
transcript.whisperx[351].end 10388.752
transcript.whisperx[351].text 目前有可能因為這是2020年的資料所以有可能2020到現在2024有陸續增加但當時我們的資料查到是臺灣總共列管了600多項的一個毒品可是全世界的這個聯合國的這個報告他其實是高達1000將近200項
transcript.whisperx[352].start 10391.093
transcript.whisperx[352].end 10414.388
transcript.whisperx[352].text 所以換言之還是一半當然不是說因為有一些毒品它有可能是只有在某些國家流行或氾濫可是我現在提醒的就是說因為這個上濕毒品的狀態就是一樣嘛就之前我們沒有把它列管進去而造成說它可能有部分的一個空窗期那當然我們已經在8月的時候已經把它列為三級毒品了可是本席要講的是
transcript.whisperx[353].start 10415.588
transcript.whisperx[353].end 10442.457
transcript.whisperx[353].text 這樣子的一個機制有沒有能夠蓋精進或調整的空間尤其我們看到之前的新聞報導是有講是說法醫研究院研究所購買標準品的預算只有區區300萬我不知道現在有沒有增加那如果說只是幾百萬如果說只是因為研究所沒有錢沒有多餘的預算去購買毒品導致於說我們沒有對照組實驗組比較組而造成我們沒有辦法列管的話
transcript.whisperx[354].start 10444.418
transcript.whisperx[354].end 10447.081
transcript.whisperx[354].text 幾百萬的預算部分是不是應該要來做加強?
transcript.whisperx[355].start 10449.065
transcript.whisperx[355].end 10455.489
transcript.whisperx[355].text 邀請蔡易瑜委員、蔡易瑜、蔡易瑜委員不在邀請羅明才委員、羅明才、羅明才不在邀請林思明委員、林思明、林思明委員不在邀請鄭振前委員、鄭振前、鄭振前委員不在
transcript.whisperx[356].start 10477.122
transcript.whisperx[356].end 10502.33
transcript.whisperx[356].text 有請楊瓊英委員,楊瓊英委員不在有請陳冠廷委員,陳冠廷委員不在有請傅坤祺委員,傅坤祺委員不在有請賴世寶委員,賴世寶委員不在所有登記發言委員均已發言完畢,詢答結束委員諮詢時,要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關盡速送交個別委員及本會
transcript.whisperx[357].start 10505.578
transcript.whisperx[357].end 10514.19
transcript.whisperx[357].text 委員謝榮介所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報並請相關機關以書面答覆本次會議進行到此結束現在散會謝謝大家
IVOD_ID 16182
IVOD_URL https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16182
日期 2024-10-17
會議資料.會議代碼 委員會-11-2-36-5
會議資料.屆 11
會議資料.會期 2
會議資料.會次 5
會議資料.種類 委員會
會議資料.委員會代碼[0] 36
會議資料.標題 第11屆第2會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議
影片種類 Full
開始時間 2024-10-17T08:30:30+08:00
結束時間 2024-10-17T11:26:00+08:00
支援功能[0] ai-transcript