| IVOD_ID |
161780 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161780 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
17 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-21T15:21:52+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-21T15:41:24+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:19:32 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e381da0d479eb7db3c3c949fed01fc5fe11a54d16b4ae569f45a94dd28b54b389a6adb080ab407945ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
翁曉玲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
15:21:52 - 15:41:24 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-21T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於總統府預算凍結項目共5案。
二、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於國家安全會議預算凍結項目共4案。
【5月19日及21日兩天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
9.028 |
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9.389 |
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首先先請何副秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
19.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
47.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
黃委員您好是何副秘你好這個因為今天早上我們考慮到就是國安會秘書長還有總統府秘書長沒有來所以我們早上就是先會議休息然後呢您在中間的時候是不是有接受媒體訪問講說我們如果今天總統府的預算案不解凍的話阿兵哥再兩星期就沒飯吃是嗎是的是你不覺得您這樣子說這個話 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
50.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
58.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
這個混淆是非啊我們今天要解凍的是什麼案子業務費裡面是跟阿兵哥的伙食費相同嗎我們是當時是凍結的是阿兵哥的伙食費嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
64.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
68.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
他是在我們的業務費裡面的其中一項一項什麼我快速跟是廚師費嘛在聘廚師的費用你們自己報告裡面顯示聘廚師的費用對不對他接下來的確會影響到他們的三餐的膳食 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
84.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
95.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
今天我們要解凍的是什麼費用是廚師的費用嘛 聘廚師的費用你們自己報告書上面寫得很清楚啊每個月差不多八萬多塊錢 聘廚師的費用這個跟伙食費不一樣啊您說話有沒有邏輯太跳躍了 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
105.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
114.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
我們伙食費沒有刪 沒有凍結就算是今天沒有廚師去煮飯給阿兵哥吃還是可以對外買水餃 買便當 買麥當勞吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
119.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
134.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
不會讓阿兵哥餓到肚子嘛對不對我們真的很擔心啦就是第一個包含水電費沒了然後他們的三餐全部其實我真的很不會煮飯我最會煮的就是維大利炸醬麵而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
136.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
156.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那廚師也好 他們要選材 洗材 然後還要清潔而且因為總統府跟其他的單位比較不一樣他負責國家中樞 這些元首 甚至像各個重要的官員是 何富密 您說的我都了解我也絕對是認為說 我們辛苦的憲兵弟兄們不可以讓他們餓肚子 不可以讓他們吃不好這完全都同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
164.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
182.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那今天的解凍說實在話也沒有什麼太大的困難因為當時本來就認為說這部分請你們要做專案報告可是我今天很不滿的是你怎麼可以對外放話說我們如果今天這個廚師這個費用不解凍阿B哥就會餓肚子兩星期 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
183.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
188.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
在兩星期阿兵哥就會餓肚子啊這是錯誤的這是一個造謠跟委員報告不僅僅阿兵哥會餓到肚子我們連一些僱員都會被解僱掉大概二十幾個人所以委員如果說我講話可以再 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
201.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
228.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
對的解凍這是兩回事我現在只是講說你接受媒體採訪的時候因為你又這麼有媒體經驗你怎麼會不知道說這句話的影響力是對所以我今天只是要糾正是對這只是我們今天要解凍的有許只是一個聘廚室的費用但是這跟阿兵哥的伙食費沒有關係請你不要在那邊造謠說又是我們藍白立委喔這是害阿兵哥又沒飯吃又讓他們餓肚子 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
229.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
232.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
真的讓他們餓肚子的是你們啦如果說這個沒有聘到廚師或是人家廚師辭職如果廚師辭職的話是不是阿民哥就會餓肚子呢不會嘛你們還是會想辦法買外賣啊我同意文委員的說法那但是很抱歉我來質詢台備詢之前我五六日我有問一下我們第一線的這些兄弟姊妹士官兵我說你們誰會煮飯 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
255.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
266.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
他們都說現在什麼時代一定要會煮飯嗎就是阿民哥的伙食是一定要要自己有廚師去煮飯嗎對不對好啦這個何鳳敏我不要再跟你討論這個細節齁那麼我只是要希望你能夠為這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
272.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
289.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
至少要说明白不是砍的是伙食费而是厨师费对不对我希望待会的这个媒体也可以做更正报道就澄清了事实澄清的报道但是他们真的说他们又要战哨然后又要晒太阳他们下 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
290.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
299.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
哪一個軍人弟兄不是這樣所以我們才要調高軍人待遇啊你們又反對這個民進黨的委員又反對反對給這個軍人待遇調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
307.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
325.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
所以民進黨很多的邏輯是非常奇怪的接下來我要問的就是說有關於你們講說因為業務被刪所以可能會影響到總統府的媒體新聞的宣傳等等我在這裡我想請問這次總統他接受了幾個媒體的採訪 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
328.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
339.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
是總統府有沒有付這個受訪的費用不管是閩迪選讀日本經濟新聞還有財訊這個部分就我所知沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
341.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
359.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這是沒有確定沒有我們之後下一年度看的時候看到你們的經費報這其實是有像過去蔡英文總統在選舉的時候我還記得是接受博恩夜夜秀的訪問本來以為說博恩夜夜秀是單純去邀訪 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
360.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
380.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
等到事後才發現這也是付費的啊所以你們確定嗎這三個節目是沒有付任何的費用給媒體那如果是這樣的話那就代表說其實媒體對於總統府的這個各項的業務啊採訪這些都是很有興趣那你們其實真的可以節省這筆費用嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
381.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
404.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
你們媒體新聞宣傳費可以節省起來反正這麼多的媒體都對總統府很有興趣對總統的八眼也很有興趣以後應該要多邀他們來做免費報導我覺得這一方面也是節省功效不是嗎我跟委員報告一下其實帶我長大的我自己是單親家庭啦帶我長大的是一個身心障礙的哥哥我自己的 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
406.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
430.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這個表格那我想台灣為什麼會讓全世界尊重我們因為我們在總統在說話的時候不管是聽障的朋友還是如何我們都有手語的翻譯我們不要漏了不要漏了任何一個人那此外其實台灣受到全世界的尊重跟喜愛我們有多國的翻譯都在這一筆的預算裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
430.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
455.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
所以另外一個部分 何富密您講的我知道但是我覺得您又岔題了這也是我很佩服您的地方我剛剛其實問就是說是總統接受媒體訪問總統府有沒有付錢沒有 那沒有就非常好那就代表說總統的發言還有總統府的公關做得很好媒體都願意來免費報導那這樣我也鼓勵你們未來可以朝這個方向去做可是我們的直播怎麼辦呢有關於這個緊急危難的部分我們的翻譯怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
460.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
484.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
你們可以把你們要去做媒體更換費用我們也不可能長期的找志工來這樣子真的會口語的翻譯好那接下來我要這個修語老師也我也我真的不會修語這個部分的費用解凍我們待會會再談拜託謝謝支持接下來我還會再講就是說有關於緊急危難未問金的部分看起來你們是如果這個費用沒有解凍國務教費裡面這個我們現在是動多少是 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
490.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
505.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
動了一千萬如果沒有動的話總統是連緊急危難的補助金慰問金都發不出來是嗎是的我跟委員報告一下請問一下總統現在一個月領多少薪水像最近的這個車禍的事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
507.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
518.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
總統其實到現場他也不接受媒體的訪問所以總統心有餘而力不足因為他沒有那個錢可以先支出緊急危難的慰問金是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
521.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
537.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
就我所知他有時候會自己掏腰包啦至少我現在沒有聽到總統有自己掏腰包付支付緊急危難慰問金的情況我們只有看到中央政府不斷地講我們如果說扣了國務機要費那總統就沒有辦法用我們的公帑去支付緊急危難的慰問金 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
545.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
553.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
其實他不僅僅緊急為難 包含一些軍警我想請教一下 總統每個月現在支領是多少薪水100萬嗎70萬要精準喔 要精準喔 來 請回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
564.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
576.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
因為我們今年有調薪3%嘛 公教人員有調薪3%那總統副總統的薪水我們依照內政部配合公教人員調薪3%他答覆給我們的是546,970台加特資費呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
579.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
593.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
沒有特殊費啊做得好 就是國際藥費嘛 對對對就是一個月五六十萬嘛 還加年終獎金等等我們這樣講好了表達一個心意 表達一個慰問金就算是這個國際藥費暫時凍結總統連這點小錢都不願意出嗎他連這樣的一個慰問的這個慰問的這個費用 請問委員我可以回答嗎對 他可以先暫待啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
605.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
624.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我覺得今天講的好像是總統只要是沒有這筆錢他連一般的社會的慰問緊急危難這些都沒有辦法做我覺得這是總統的心意就算是我們現在立法委員我們沒有編任何的什麼緊急危難的這個費用我遇到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
625.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
637.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
有需要幫忙的人需要去救助的我自己還是會用我的薪水去我會花自己的錢去救助 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
638.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
666.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
所以我認為說總統府不要把這些事情拿來講說因為這個錢如果不解凍的話會影響到委員可以給我30秒我30秒快速回應其實每一年總統府都會跟我們的弱勢團體採購水果或者手工皂手工餅乾這些讓這些社福團體他們能夠被看到而且有時候募款很辛苦的時候他們可以去做到第二件事情跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
668.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
682.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
你可以上網自己搜尋其實賴總統以前真的都把他的薪水有捐給很多不同的社福團體但是他為善不欲人知所以並沒有特別的去做PR或者是做這些公關的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
693.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
717.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
今天是副秘書長來我想您今天大概從早到現在大概也受到了很多的炮火其實大家不是對您不滿大家主要是對吳釗燮秘書長不滿真的是藐視國會明明按照我們現在組織法國安會就是有要到立法院來備詢而且接受立法院的監督可是你們可以這麼多次都不來坦白說看起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
718.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
725.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
吳釗信秘書長也不太在乎國安會的這個預算到底要不要解凍那因為剛剛涉及到一個事情所以我在這裡我要講就是剛剛說政務人員待遇為什麼我們只凍十萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
730.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
742.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我要講的是當時的提案是因為我們有發現國安會在政務人員待遇今年的編列費用比去年高達多出15.85%這是超出過去的這個幅度 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
748.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
753.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
而且依照公務人員的加薪每年加3%3%也加不到15.85%所以我們提出來這個問題請你們做專案報告後來這個本來是凍結100萬後來談談說好吧現在這樣的話只凍了10萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
764.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
785.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
是這樣的緣由不是王一川委員說的他那時候還沒有進來所以我就說委員要用功啦要去質詢的時候也要先看看人家之前的提案是什麼不要在那邊亂造謠那接下來還有一個部分就是有關於國安會這邊講的說要我們對於這個諮詢研究業務費用希望國安會要提出專案報告你們現在列的這是什麼這是叫專案報告兩頁叫專案報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
793.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
802.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
徐副秘書長您的報告的概念跟我們做報告的概念是完全不一樣這加起來可能都還不到兩千字這就叫做報告報告委員這個內容主要是 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
808.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
813.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
因為當時黃國昌委員問的是我們那個經費是怎麼使用那我們就是把用人別國別還有旅行的次數把它報告出來所以你們去了哪些國家做了什麼樣研究做了什麼調查難道我們沒有權利知道嗎難道人民不應該知道說到底官會每年編了這麼多的錢是用到哪裡了 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
832.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
857.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
你們怎麼知道說你們是不是到日本去看黑熊或是到什麼冰島去看極光我們不可能去冰島看極光啦所以你要告訴我你們要去哪裡我已經講了我們這裡面都有專案每個專案去哪些但是委員我跟您說去哪些國家我們沒辦法講這是因為我們國安人員出去通常是不露出的 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
857.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
864.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
這是基於雙方的一個不相同的問題我也知道這可能涉及到一些機密但是你不要忘記我們立法院也可以開秘密會議我們可以不需要公開讓所有的媒體讓所有的民眾看這個直播但是我們立法院可以召開秘密會議你們也可以提密件報告在國防外交委員會都有這麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
882.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
902.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
所以你們沒有道理說不讓我們立法委員知道你們今天到底去哪裡開會否則我們很合理的懷疑為什麼不敢講對不對連監察院都可以說他們編列外國參旅費是到日本去看黑熊那國安會議到底你們做了些什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
903.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
915.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
總是可以跟我們個別委員 或是我們就裝開一個小的群組讓我們大概知道 我們也不需要知道具體名下的名所以這個叫專案報告這是一個不合格的專案報告啊所以我們只能這樣寫 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
920.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
943.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
我寫的沒有不跟您講請教主席如果說今天我們認為這個專案報告裡面的內容應該要更清楚那麼國安會認為說這可能社交機密我們是不是可以開一個秘密會議呢就是我們純粹委員這邊然後這樣才能夠知道他們的專案報告內容什麼否則的話我們今天怎麼可能會讓你們這個案子過 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
946.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
949.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
就預算的部分他這裡我們不是講說就他的研究諮詢業務當時的研究諮詢業務說三個月內提出專案報告並經同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
961.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
978.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
有沒有這個可能性因為我問了一下我們本委員會以前從來沒有過這樣的前例啦是沒有這樣的前例但是不代表說不可以開嘛在我們法規上面有禁止說司法法治委員會不可以開命令會議嗎對否則我覺得這未來就是一個漏洞啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
979.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
999.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
對 國安會每年的預算送給我們審查就我們竟然沒有辦法知道說他們到底用到哪裡去了只有一個總頭頭的一個經費幾千萬上億是總頭頭 我有分區域 有分次數這我都有報告那我怎麼知道你寫的是對還是不對我們都有經過會計和審核我們不可能撒謊啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1001.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1026.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
現在連光雲撒謊這個大法官都認為沒有處罰啦所以我根本不知道你們到底有沒有撒謊啦我們經過會計程序怎麼可能撒謊呢我想我們立法院重要的職責基本上就是監督警政機關我們也很希望了解到底業務機關做了什麼事情這個可以作為你們日後要增加預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1027.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1041.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
或是在兵力預算的時候就我們大家就比較清楚否則的話現在以你們這樣子的一個報告方式我們根本不知道你們到底去開了什麼會議做了什麼考察然後只是說依照地區然後什麼來區分 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1043.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1056.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
任何一個機關的報告都不可能這樣子寫報告委員我們不是去考察我們都是去開會沒有考察這種東西是 所以去開會會議總要有個名稱吧有名稱但是沒辦法講報告委員沒辦法在這裡講我是跟您說實話所以我才說這可能可以涉及到密會或是你們有密件的方式來提供給我們知道送密件的方式是其他委員會也都有過的不是說沒有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1072.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1085.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
對 我們如果看了密件 未來我們洩漏機密這個是要負責任的 負刑責的每個委員都很清楚我們的法律責任是什麼可是你們不能因此而規避掉你們的責任我們沒有規避 報告委員我們沒有規避 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1086.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1104.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
我可以把你們的報告我直接可以貼臉書然後請社會大眾來公平看看我們是不是同意國安會這樣的專案報告可以讓他解凍預算因為我今天耽誤太多時間雖然我還準備了很多題目不過就是謝謝昭緯給我這樣的時間就是說剛剛有提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1109.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1117.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
秘會的部分 因為以前沒有前例啦 那今天會後的話我們會研究一下那當然法規沒有禁止 這個是我要在這邊先跟各位報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1120.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1145.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
那那個剛剛就是有關翁委員所提到的就是火石費的部分因為剛剛我們那個國防外交委員會的委員有特別請我在這邊跟大家說明一下就是因為國軍的官兵薪資裡面是由官兵向那個單位繳納納入火石團採買所以總統府的預算如果被凍結憲兵 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1148.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1171.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
就是211營它的伙食它是無關的所以說這是剛剛那個國防委員會的委員給我們的就是說今天的業務費如果沒有解凍的話其實跟官兵沒有錢吃飯是兩回事這是剛剛國防委員會那當然這部分再請大家了解一下好 謝謝那我們下一位請陳美鳳 |