| IVOD_ID |
161776 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161776 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
17 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-21T14:41:44+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-21T14:54:47+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:03 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e381da0d479eb7dbb37841f60e56830ee11a54d16b4ae569d83485c555d55c9f047be7cfaf59973b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳宗憲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
14:41:44 - 14:54:47 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-21T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於總統府預算凍結項目共5案。
二、處理114年度中央政府總預算關於國家安全會議預算凍結項目共4案。
【5月19日及21日兩天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
2.199 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
好 現在請吳宗憲委員質詢所以我們麻煩兩位複密好 那首先我先謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
20.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
46.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
何富密至少在前一天還有跟我提到說要來要討論這個秘書長沒辦法到的事情那至於國安會的秘書長就是也都不來我也不是我覺得這不是一個處理事情的方式更何況我早上其實有在講組織法第8條寫得很清楚國安會就是要向立法院負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
49.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
68.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
秘書長總是不來而且不來也都不聯絡那我要跟大家報告一下到現在此刻為止其實兩位秘書長也都沒有一通電話過來過那我想說預算這個東西啊民進黨以及很多親鳥已經拿這個東西已經大做文章半年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
69.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
77.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
中間更有非常多造謠 後來被打臉澄清的事情那已經玩了半年的東西 然後之前我們又遇到 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
79.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
102.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
坊間的傳說以及公務體系內的傳說說卓榮泰要求大家不要把解凍案送來送到立法院那後來突然間又叫大家把解凍案送來那今天總統府的解凍案送過來其實我也是很善意的趕快排進來我們希望幫大家解凍因為我知道總統府的預算裡面還有包括更多跟總統府 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
103.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
123.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
有關的譬如說憲兵的一些費用的支出或一些必要的水電支出所以我很誠意的希望趕快排進來來幫大家解決這個問題結果我們排了以後總府秘書長也不願意來然後國安會的秘書長也不願意來那我也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
124.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
147.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
很誠意的跟兩位副秘書長在早上也報告了而且我其實昨天就有講了啦就說那你今天如果真的有藥物不能來那是不是可以來一個小時就好比如說九點開始然後你十點開始請假那你至少來一個小時有些委員需要問問題的可以問得到那也不行啊然後再來就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
148.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
164.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那我說好 那療癒秘書長何時有空我們會議可以專門為你排你有空的時候麻煩你來 也不來那這個就不是你因公無法道了我想這個就是不會送來就對了啦看你不好不會送來啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
164.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
191.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我覺得就是這樣那至少我剛剛為什麼說感謝何副秘書長這何副秘書長還有那個嫌秘書長的意思還先來我們好好的溝通了一下那吳釗燮秘書長是連甩都不甩我們那如果對於說預算解凍這個事情這個是你們要用的預算然後我們這麼誠意的幫你排了然後你還是愛來不來我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
192.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
214.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這做法就不對 那我剛剛所論述的每一件事實都是這兩天發生的事實那我也只能說 立法院 市長法治委員會已經用盡了所有的善意 希望好好的處理預算但是我們面對的是 他就是不甩你然後對外就說我的錢都被卡死 我無法施政 藍白爛三 爛凍結預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
216.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
243.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那我希望全國人民看清楚這些嘴臉你連來都不來我告訴你法條的依據你應該到立法院來要該來負責你給我回一句說憲政慣例我不用來那你憲政慣例是憲政的哪一條慣例你請你告訴我你到今天也都還不告訴我那這樣以後我面對民意代表我的邏輯就是憲政慣例啊我為什麼甩你所以原來當官是這樣在當的 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
246.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
267.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我希望說全民看清楚吧我想請教一下何副秘書長因為總統有提到說要來提一個國安情勢的簡報他昨天也有提到說希望政黨合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
267.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
287.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那我們當然第一個講到矛盾的點是 你一邊說要政黨合作 另外一方面你又在那邊支持大罷免然後一直在歡呼這件事情 那我想請教你一下那既然他說要政黨合作 那又提了一個國安情勢報告那請問一下 他要的這個國安情勢報告的內容到底是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
288.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
308.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我想跟委員報告現在所有的幕僚作業正在進行當中因為是昨天才正式的對外公布那因為我想各位委員都很專業也許大家針對他想要看到的報告或是哪個方面我們這邊都可以互相的溝通並且後續可以再讓幕僚作業來製作來產出那是抱歉是 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
312.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
326.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
沒有啦 因為我想 就是 好吧 那現在是幕僚還在處理啦但是我想要提的一個就是 我雖然說到政壇才一年多但我覺得政治的真諦是在於溝通跟協調我想這個大家都不會否認 而不是說造謠跟抹紅 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
328.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
350.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
但這段時間我看到的就是講不贏你 法治上講不贏你就給你扣紅帽子就扣你說你是中共同路人或什麼這種東西這段時間我們每天都在遇到那我也只能就是說跟複密報告一個點就是其實總統身為民進黨黨主席他也是國家的總統那他有權利去任命這些行政院院長還有大法官所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
351.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
378.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我至少到目前為止我只有聽到總統說他希望在執政跟在野大家好好的團結合作和諧的來從事國政可是並沒有看到一個實際的作為那我看到的只是司法上面的一些雙標以及施政上面的一些雙標甚至就我剛剛講到的他一方面說你刪我預算你爛凍結我預算但是我們排了解凍案就秘書長又不來 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
379.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
396.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
然後我們卑微的 不要說卑微啦我沒有講說 我說配合你的時間你什麼時間有空 我什麼時間都可以為你而開晚上12點也可以 但是他還是不來我說真的 我當召委 我今天訂的這個議程我連一通電話我都沒接到這兩位偉大的秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
397.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
424.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我們今天好歹我是民意代表但我連一通兩位的電話我都沒有接到今天早上麻煩複密然後跟秘書長聯繫但我到現在我什麼資訊都沒有就空等了那麼久但是我們今天是在為兩位所帶領的機關在想辦法幫你解凍要拿預算給你用結果你卻這樣子處理這個是我沒有辦法理解的地方啦當然我也覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
426.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
455.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
秘書長爛這東西不能讓基層的這些憲兵等等的這些人來吃苦或是讓總統府的公務員吃苦我們不捨得讓這些基層因為長官的爛而必須要吃苦所以很多時候我們不得不去救一些預算部分我們只能說很多苦我們就吞下來你今天不學我們我們就吞下來但我沒有辦法說讓那些士官兵在那裡然後連飯都沒得吃 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
456.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
484.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
然後冷氣沒得開然後像那個何富密跟我說他熱到都要中暑其實我都捨不得 捨不得何富密受這樣的苦但我也是很不屑不恥秘書長們做這種事情就因為他不屑民意機關這就是賴總統 賴政府執政之下帶領的這些高官們就是看不起不屑民意機關我們還叫做民主國家嗎這是我自己心中的一個感觸啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
489.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
509.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我覺得之前賴總統有提到的那個賴17點以及我們這次他所希望做到的這個國安情勢簡報我們還是希望一件事情因為共敵案發生了這麼久我們還是搞不太清楚整個方向那但是這個東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
511.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
534.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我們國家安全受到危害的時候其實不管每個人民或是立委們都很擔心這個事情所以我還是一個具體的建議啦我希望說檢報的內容能夠跟我們說明幾個點就是我希望第一個跟我們說明到底是發生了什麼事情還有什麼時候開始的那第二個就是說到底是這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
535.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
552.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
敵對的勢力是誰 機敏資料持有人 金手人 這個怎麼查核還有滲透的原因還有為什麼選擇這些人下手我想這個在我簡報上面都有還有最後你要怎麼解決這個問題尤其怎麼解決才是最重要因為我們不能容認國家在被 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
554.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
581.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
某些勢力不管是來自於境外或境內的人他去滲透國家的安全去破壞國家安全我想說這幾個東西要麻煩你們在將來的那個簡報裡面能夠都把這個東西能夠提起來能夠讓我們理解一下更何況這些共諜其實我們發現他們都還有在繳民進黨的黨費他其實就還是民進黨的黨員是發生事情之後才被開除的所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
582.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
608.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我覺得當然我可以理解一個點就像上市櫃公司一樣大家要去查你的商業機密他當然要從那些技術人員那邊去滲透他不會去滲透外面的散戶所以這些人很大量的存在執政黨或者是執政黨的輔會黨團等等或是中央機關這個我可以理解這個是邏輯上是合邏輯的但是你應該還是要找出一個方法去解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
610.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
618.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這還是要找一個方法去解決而不能放任這些人就繼續在裡面去侵害我們這個國家所以我想總統他真正要交代的 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
620.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
646.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
這共諜到底是怎麼樣這些人怎麼養成的而不是跟我們說我去搞了一個急難救助金就可以因為我覺得狀況不會是這麼low不會是他欠幾個錢他就會出賣靈魂給某些敵人我想不是這樣好 如果這個人可以用錢來打動的話你的敵人永遠可以出比你更高的價碼去鎖定那幾個特定人這絕對不是立了一個什麼急難救助金就可以解決問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
648.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
675.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我不相信是這樣啦我相信如果你們認為的敵人是中國大陸的話以民進黨現在認定的敵人是中國大陸中國大陸絕對有辦法出更高的價碼去買通其他人所以這不是解決問題的方式請大家能夠真的找出問題來解決如果你是有心解決如果你不是把國家安全只是當作政治籌碼在那邊做政治攻擊的話如果你真心要解決國家安全受侵害的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
676.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
703.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
請拿出正確的方式來做然後機要人員的查核是不是可以告訴我們過去問題出在哪裡那將來你怎麼改正因為這次有發生機要人員的問題然後發生長期都沒有被安全查核那這到底是包出在哪裡那有沒有需要立法院協助修法這也是麻煩你們能夠告訴我們一下否則啊 區區幾千塊美金幾萬塊你就把國家安全都出賣了 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
703.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
732.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那我們也希望喔政府在查緝共諜的時候能夠像查辦國民黨涉犯的幽靈連署一樣到處大搜索大約談然後到處申請羈押我希望辦共諜能有像辦國民黨的這樣的決心跟這樣的力道哪怕是二分之一的力道也可以啦好好的辦共諜啦真正在讓這個國家陷於危險的是這些共諜啦真正是這些人啦而不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
733.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
762.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我跟你講啦 違照文書我從以前到現在我都說是違法的我從來沒有說過它合法但它跟國家安全比起來共諜這麼嚴重你為什麼不好好的辦所以我還是希望國家能夠重視我們國家安全出了問題這件事情而不要在那邊講一些風涼話叫做沒有被滲透的才是真正有問題這種話都出來好那再麻煩那個何富密這邊能夠協助然後另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
764.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
783.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
官會這邊真的要麻煩您跟秘書長提醒一下請他去看一下官會的組織法不然請他找他友好的立委把官會組織法第八條修掉如果第八條沒有修掉的時候請依法行政麻煩你們請依法行政 |