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委員名稱 完整會議
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transcript.whisperx[0].start 1170.572
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transcript.whisperx[0].text 草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[1].start 1205.046
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transcript.whisperx[1].text 一、二、三、四一、二、三、四
transcript.whisperx[2].start 1235.799
transcript.whisperx[2].end 1239.441
transcript.whisperx[2].text 一、二、三、四。好了就這樣了會議要開始了
transcript.whisperx[3].start 1879.073
transcript.whisperx[3].end 1906.908
transcript.whisperx[3].text 好,我們請主任秘書報告出席人數。報告委員會出席委員9人,已足法定人數。好,我們現在開會,進行報告事項,請宣讀上次會議議事錄。立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議議事錄,時間113年10月9日星期三上午9時2分至下午1時53分,地點紅樓202會議室,出席委員蘇巧慧委員等14人,列席委員林倩琦委員等26人,
transcript.whisperx[4].start 1907.688
transcript.whisperx[4].end 1925.324
transcript.whisperx[4].text 草案 列席官員 客家委員會主任委員古秀菲及相關人員 財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長陳邦整及相關人員 原住民組委員會主任委員曾志勇及相關人員 文化部政務次長李敬慧及相關人員 教育部中生教育司司長梁學正及相關人員 主席徐昭吉委員新移
transcript.whisperx[5].start 1926.405
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transcript.whisperx[5].text 草案。報告事項一、宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定。二、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況並備質詢。三、邀請客家委員會主任委員員、駐民族委員會主任委員、文化部次長、教育部就臺灣臺語名詞是否符合國家語言定義,是否侵犯臺灣其他語言並存地位,及修正臺灣臺語政策進行專題報告並備質詢。
transcript.whisperx[6].start 1951.421
transcript.whisperx[6].end 1960.586
transcript.whisperx[6].text 草案案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[7].start 1971.091
transcript.whisperx[7].end 1989.62
transcript.whisperx[7].text 草案 決定。一、登記發言委員除不在場者外其餘均與發言完畢詢答結束。二、委員高晉、宿美、呂育林、蘇清泉、丁學忠及邱振軍等5人所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報。三、書面質詢及未及答覆部分請相關機關於一週內另以書面答覆並複製本會,通過臨時提案議案。
transcript.whisperx[8].start 1990.22
transcript.whisperx[8].end 2010.149
transcript.whisperx[8].text 其他事項,主席宣告,請各列席單位準備之書面報告應確實依開會通知單所定送達時間準時送達,並請準備口頭以及書面報告。宣讀完畢。好,請問各位委員,上次會議意思錄有無錯誤或遺漏?好,那我們意思錄確定。那我們繼續進行討論事項,請宣讀。
transcript.whisperx[9].start 2013.8
transcript.whisperx[9].end 2019.282
transcript.whisperx[9].text 草案案。五、繼續審查委員陳婷菲等17人、委員黃捷等17人、委員廖其昌等21人、委員分別擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[10].start 2029.625
transcript.whisperx[10].end 2048.198
transcript.whisperx[10].text 草案案。五、繼續審查委員廖先祥等18人擬具《消防法》第15條、第21條之二及第43條之一條文修正草案案。六、繼續審查委員吳啟明等19人擬具《消防法》第21條之一、第21條之二及第43條之一條文修正草案案。七、繼續審查臺灣民眾黨黨團擬具《消防法》第43條之一條文修正草案案。
transcript.whisperx[11].start 2048.778
transcript.whisperx[11].end 2062.983
transcript.whisperx[11].text 草案案。五、繼續審查委員范雲等21人擬具委員王美惠等23人擬具委員吳麗華等18人擬具委員張宏祿等26人擬具委員黃潔等16人擬具委員國民黨黨團分別擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員楊瓊英等20人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、繼續審查委員劉許廷等22人擬具委員洪孟楷等19人擬具
transcript.whisperx[12].start 2071.065
transcript.whisperx[12].end 2080.642
transcript.whisperx[12].text 草案案。」委員林思明等18人分別擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。審查委員邱若驊等20人擬具《消防法第43條之一條文修正草案案》案。宣讀完畢。
transcript.whisperx[13].start 2084.438
transcript.whisperx[13].end 2110.653
transcript.whisperx[13].text 本日審查之法案,頁經本會於113年6月26日第11屆第一會期第二十五次全體委員會議報告及詢答結束。那時候我們有決議,待行政院提案附委後,並按進行審查。緣此本次會議並按進行審查。好,那我們現在介紹在場委員及列席官員。我們在場的有
transcript.whisperx[14].start 2112.862
transcript.whisperx[14].end 2136.044
transcript.whisperx[14].text 劉許廷委員、洪孟凱委員、王美惠委員、黃潔委員、李柏毅委員。我們今天有來的是我們的內政部部長劉世芳、我們消防署署長蕭煥章
transcript.whisperx[15].start 2139.132
transcript.whisperx[15].end 2163.574
transcript.whisperx[15].text 那我們還有法務部的參事廖江憲我們的環境部化學署的副署長陳淑玲我們教育部資訊及教育科技師的專門委員廖雙慶還有我們勞動部職業安全衛生署的副署長林玉堂
transcript.whisperx[16].start 2166.135
transcript.whisperx[16].end 2193.011
transcript.whisperx[16].text 還有我們經濟部產業園區管理局的副局長劉季傳還有我們的衛生福利部醫師師的檢任技師呂念慈還有我們的情緒部人事管理師的副司長黃美媛還有行政院人事行政總署綜合規劃處的檢任視察孫成錦還有公務人員保障及培訓委員會保障處處長黃秀琴
transcript.whisperx[17].start 2198.652
transcript.whisperx[17].end 2213.209
transcript.whisperx[17].text 那我們就本日議程新增制審查法案我們先提請提案委員說明提案要旨每人3分鐘那我們依今天先來的順序那我們第一個我們請牛許廷
transcript.whisperx[18].start 2222.523
transcript.whisperx[18].end 2248.355
transcript.whisperx[18].text 好 謝謝主席 各位與會同仁 各位媒體先進 各位政府長官 大家早安 大家好今天來做這個消防法修法牛雪林版本的提案說明這個近年來 這個空工廠跟倉儲的火災不斷當然我們都知道這個存放化學跟危險物品的工廠它當然是危害性跟對消防人員的安全打擊最高的第一優先這點本席競表同意
transcript.whisperx[19].start 2249.47
transcript.whisperx[19].end 2267.802
transcript.whisperx[19].text 但是我們認為除了化學品這樣的一個工廠需要加強火災預防的配套措施之外具有一定規模以上的倉儲因為其火載量是一般工廠的4到5倍換言之它的易燃性跟造成的打擊可能不亞於存放危險物品的工廠
transcript.whisperx[20].start 2268.542
transcript.whisperx[20].end 2287.669
transcript.whisperx[20].text 所以這火災量很高啊所以即使大型倉儲不見得存放所謂的危險物品但是發生火災的時候常常是全面燃燒或是長時間的悶燒所造成的危害不亞於工廠火災不只是對於消防人員救災的這個耗損跟長時間的疲勞也因為長時間的悶燒或者是長時間的打火不易造成這個周邊社區嚴重的公害
transcript.whisperx[21].start 2297.233
transcript.whisperx[21].end 2322.75
transcript.whisperx[21].text 所以我認為這些社會成本都是我們修法的時候應該要考慮的事情我們如果談危險跟化學物品屏東的民洋大火就是標準的超量造成的消防人員不幸殉職而桃園蘆竹的美孚大火跟陽梅的家樂福大火都是因為長期的燜燒跟大規模的燜燒除了使消防人員疲於奔命之外府臭味的空氣污染也嚴重影響周邊居民的生活品質
transcript.whisperx[22].start 2323.65
transcript.whisperx[22].end 2339.453
transcript.whisperx[22].text 有鑒於此,為使一定規模以上的倉庫比照工廠來做納管,並且克與相關資訊透明的義務,以敦促企業重視自主風險管理,減少火災發生後社會付出的巨大成本。
transcript.whisperx[23].start 2340.455
transcript.whisperx[23].end 2355.893
transcript.whisperx[23].text 並遏止企業降低自身災害風險的責任轉嫁給社會承擔的這種惡質行為並強化消防人員職業安全衛生保障。本席提出《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。懇請各位委員同仁支持。
transcript.whisperx[24].start 2356.434
transcript.whisperx[24].end 2379.826
transcript.whisperx[24].text 在此也特別感謝行政院卓榮泰院長內政部劉世芳部長在上個禮拜本席的總質詢的時候已經當場答應倉儲的納管不只要從工廠管理輔導法處理也要在消防法的相關條文中做精進用雙軌並進的方式來確保消防安全也感謝消防署事前的積極溝通我們期待今天的修法過程順利圓滿以上
transcript.whisperx[25].start 2385.23
transcript.whisperx[25].end 2387.711
transcript.whisperx[25].text 條文修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員黃捷等17人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員黃捷等17人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。三、繼續審查委員黃捷等17人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員黃捷等17人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。三、繼續審查委員黃捷等17人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。三、繼續審查委員黃捷等17人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。三、繼續審查委員黃捷等17人擬
transcript.whisperx[26].start 2414.918
transcript.whisperx[26].end 2425.602
transcript.whisperx[26].text 草案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。八、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[27].start 2443.789
transcript.whisperx[27].end 2467.467
transcript.whisperx[27].text 因為其實過去在各式各樣的吹哨者保護相關的條款裡面都是讓吹哨者獨自要承擔這個糾正不法的之後的一些責任跟心理的壓力還有包括可能雇主的報復行為或者是職場上面的一些心理壓力所以我也希望透過這一次的修法可以讓主管機關成為吹哨者的後盾
transcript.whisperx[28].start 2467.987
transcript.whisperx[28].end 2489.549
transcript.whisperx[28].text 那也鼓勵吹哨者他可以勇於的站出來糾舉這些不法的事項這樣子整體的消防安全環境才會越來越好那在健康的部分其實有一些細節包括說我也要求消防機關必須要定期的對所屬消防人員進行健康檢查那我認為這個健康檢查是非常重要的
transcript.whisperx[29].start 2490.049
transcript.whisperx[29].end 2508.996
transcript.whisperx[29].text 那我也非常關注女性消防員的部分所以在女性消防員的相關條文我也要求在懷孕跟產後的兩年內可以依照醫師的建議來申請職務的調整來促進這個母性的健康那我認為對於女性的職場環境非常的重要
transcript.whisperx[30].start 2509.776
transcript.whisperx[30].end 2534.388
transcript.whisperx[30].text 那當然最後要感謝一下消防員的辛苦總是在第一線守護國人的生命財產安全那我也代表高雄人來感謝所有的消防員因為在這一次的三山徒兒颱風裡面各縣市的消防員都來到高雄救災以及支援非常感謝大家那我也希望藉這個機會我們來守護消防員來促進消防員的所有保障以上謝謝
transcript.whisperx[31].start 2539.946
transcript.whisperx[31].end 2542.352
transcript.whisperx[31].text 好,我們請洪夢凱委員那請洪夢凱委員我們連國民黨黨團提案一併說明
transcript.whisperx[32].start 2550.762
transcript.whisperx[32].end 2570.38
transcript.whisperx[32].text 好,感謝,再一次感謝今天內政委員會牌相關消防法的一個修法。近年來,消防人員救災殉職的案件頻傳,凸顯消防人員職業安全保障及機制還是有要加強的地方。因此,國民黨黨團提案建立消防人員職業安全衛生制度性的保障框架,以及
transcript.whisperx[33].start 2572.322
transcript.whisperx[33].end 2593.943
transcript.whisperx[33].text 維護消防人員執勤的時候的生命安全及身心健康並且藉由消防機關辦理互助共濟的事項以激勵消防及義勇消防人員的士氣及因應的緊急事件。本席另外有提案為了強化企業自主風險管理落實災害預防責任
transcript.whisperx[34].start 2596.105
transcript.whisperx[34].end 2617.268
transcript.whisperx[34].text 確保自由災人員的生命安全及避免衍生的社會成本與院版不同的重點內容。我想幾個部分一定要在提案說明再做一個確認。一、完善危險物品的場所工作者之接避保護的條款,增訂對吹哨者不利處分的法令效果無效。
transcript.whisperx[35].start 2618.008
transcript.whisperx[35].end 2640.346
transcript.whisperx[35].text 草案 法律的輔助以及減輕或免除其刑的規定。我想吹哨者保護法之前我們一直強調我們也希望能夠與時俱進那在吹哨者保護法還沒有辦法在我們現在來做一個具體的討論的時候我們也希望其他的相關法規能夠有吹哨者保護的相關的概念。二、擴大
transcript.whisperx[36].start 2641.947
transcript.whisperx[36].end 2656.058
transcript.whisperx[36].text 災害事故調查會之啟動要件納入災害搶救以外之其他情務,所導致消防員重傷死亡或暫時全失能的情況,應該啟動調查機制,落實調查權的立法宗旨。
transcript.whisperx[37].start 2657.165
transcript.whisperx[37].end 2686.665
transcript.whisperx[37].text 以及我們也希望確定反覆違規者按次處罰的規定及勒令停業或停止使用處分的要件以防止改善期間的無限制而導致與危害因此潛藏減少基層重複查核的工作負擔本期樂見內政委員會今天排審也想提醒今年已經有許多基層的公務員不幸的離開希望透過這些事件告訴政府
transcript.whisperx[38].start 2687.405
transcript.whisperx[38].end 2715.934
transcript.whisperx[38].text 公務員的僱主。即便是身為公務員仍需要職業安全衛生法的保障,如果刻意只是在消防法做改革,是切割跟稀釋政府的責任,這樣的惡性循環只會讓公務員的職安及權益持續惡化。要打破這樣的一個惡性循環,就必須考慮公務員納入相關的保障,希望執政在野共同的深思,持續的檢討。我們為公務同仁加油,我們為所有第一線的
transcript.whisperx[39].start 2716.314
transcript.whisperx[39].end 2738.037
transcript.whisperx[39].text 草案案件。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[40].start 2739.789
transcript.whisperx[40].end 2749.033
transcript.whisperx[40].text 草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[41].start 2767.853
transcript.whisperx[41].end 2769.517
transcript.whisperx[41].text 安全衛生法部分條文修正草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[42].start 2780.046
transcript.whisperx[42].end 2798.881
transcript.whisperx[42].text 審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具、「消防法部分條文修正草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具、「消防法部分條文修正草案案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具、「消防法部分條文修正草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具、「消防法部分條文修正草案案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具、「消防法部分條文修正草案案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具、「消防法部分條文修正草案案。八、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具、「消防法
transcript.whisperx[43].start 2808.968
transcript.whisperx[43].end 2828.103
transcript.whisperx[43].text 草案 提出修法建立消防人員的職業安全衛生制度性的保障及框架,完成消防人員的職業安全衛生保障的
transcript.whisperx[44].start 2828.956
transcript.whisperx[44].end 2840.125
transcript.whisperx[44].text 條文修正草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[45].start 2853.991
transcript.whisperx[45].end 2863.153
transcript.whisperx[45].text 草案第43條之一違反資訊權是消防法部分條文修正草案裏面進行最重要的管理,如若違反相關規定,有很可能造成更多的失望、疑惑和懲戒。也有37條、40條、42條消防設備違反
transcript.whisperx[46].start 2882.984
transcript.whisperx[46].end 2890.828
transcript.whisperx[46].text 草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[47].start 2902.885
transcript.whisperx[47].end 2915.71
transcript.whisperx[47].text 草案案。二、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具、「消防法部分條文修正草案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具、「消防法部分條文修正草案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[48].start 2936.612
transcript.whisperx[48].end 2953.897
transcript.whisperx[48].text 立席機關準備之書面報告請委員自行參閱並刊登公報。我們現在處理法案報告委員會現在進行法案審查請宣讀新增審查討論事項第1案及第7至18案之條文請宣讀
transcript.whisperx[49].start 2955.953
transcript.whisperx[49].end 2970.07
transcript.whisperx[49].text 本院內政委員會於113年6月26日召開第11屆第一會期第25次全體委員會議,審查討論事項所列第二至第七案。上述6案之條文已宣讀完畢,現在宣讀行政院提案及討論事項第8至第18案。
transcript.whisperx[50].start 2971.431
transcript.whisperx[50].end 2992.027
transcript.whisperx[50].text 草案。」第一條,行政院提案,於後段增訂並防護消防人員執行植物質安全及衛生其餘同線型條文。委員范雲等提案,同行政院提案並著作文自修正。委員王美惠等提案,委員伍麗華等提案,委員黃捷等16人提案,國民黨黨團提案,委員牛許廷等提案及委員林思敏等提案,均同行政院提案。
transcript.whisperx[51].start 2993.348
transcript.whisperx[51].end 3014.098
transcript.whisperx[51].text 第9條國民黨黨團提案,第三項修正為,第一項第二款一定規模以上之場所,一直依第6條第一項所定各類場所,消防安全設備設置標準,設置消防安全設備之各類場所,但僅設置滅火器、標示設備或緊急照明燈等非系統式消防安全設備之場所不在此限,其餘同現行條文。
transcript.whisperx[52].start 3015.379
transcript.whisperx[52].end 3033.56
transcript.whisperx[52].text 第15條,行政院提案將第三項前段之行為人修正為工作者,第六項後段之得以實收罰還總金額收入之一定比例提充獎金獎勵舉發人修正為應以實收罰還總金額收入之一定比例提充獎金獎勵舉發人其與同現行條文。
transcript.whisperx[53].start 3034.321
transcript.whisperx[53].end 3055.388
transcript.whisperx[53].text 草案、委員范雲等提案、委員王美惠等提案、同行政院提案、委員張宏祿等提案,刪除第5項後段簡新文字其餘同行政院提案。國民黨黨團提案增訂第6項、第7項、第8項分別為單位主管、雇主為前項行為之一者無效,舉發人因第5項規定受有不利處分者,主管機關應提供
transcript.whisperx[54].start 3056.288
transcript.whisperx[54].end 3083.385
transcript.whisperx[54].text 草案 必要之法律輔助,舉發人因其介入行為有犯刑法特別刑法之妨害秘密罪或背信罪者,減輕或免除其刑。原第六七項一列第九十項其餘同行政院提案。委員牛許廷等提案,第三項前段之職務涉及第一項鎖定場所之行為人或經營家用液化石油器零售事業者,以下檢測零售業者、用戶及其員工等文字修正為人民或團體。
transcript.whisperx[55].start 3084.446
transcript.whisperx[55].end 3098.494
transcript.whisperx[55].text 草案案。三、繼續審查委員陳亭妃等17人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員陳亭妃等17人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。三、繼續審查委員陳亭妃等17人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員陳亭妃等17人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、繼續審查委員陳亭妃等17人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員陳亭妃等17人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、繼續審查委員陳
transcript.whisperx[56].start 3111.522
transcript.whisperx[56].end 3132.187
transcript.whisperx[56].text 草案 第6項前段修正為第3項舉發之內容相關主管機關應於60日內完成查證並一列第8項,原第7項一列第9項其餘同行政院提案。第15條之6國民黨黨團提案第一項序文前段之儲存及處理公共危險物品修正為儲存或處理公共危險物品其餘同現行條文。
transcript.whisperx[57].start 3133.467
transcript.whisperx[57].end 3159.157
transcript.whisperx[57].text 草案。第16條,國民黨黨團提案,前段致各級消防機關修正為各級消防機關購其與同線性條文。委員林思敏等提案,同國民黨黨團提案。第21條之一,行政院提案,工廠儲存化學品之倉庫及儲存場所之管理權人應依下列規定辦理,依平時備制化學品種類數量位置平面配置土籍搶救必要資訊,並於火災發生時立即提供消防指揮人員該等資訊,
transcript.whisperx[58].start 3160.638
transcript.whisperx[58].end 3178.558
transcript.whisperx[58].text 二、火災發生時指派專人至現場協助救災。委員范雲等提案、委員王美惠等提案均同行政院提案。委員伍麗華等提案,序文修正為《工廠儲存化學品質實驗室倉庫及儲存場所至管理權人火災時工廠至管理權人應依下列規定辦理》,其餘同行政院提案。
transcript.whisperx[59].start 3179.339
transcript.whisperx[59].end 3194.718
transcript.whisperx[59].text 草案。」委員張宏祿等提案,增訂第二項,前項第一款之必要資訊應定其上傳至中央主管機關指定之網路平臺,其上傳時程及相關辦法由中央主管機關擬定之,其餘同行政院提案。國民黨黨團提案,增訂並修正為,第21條之一,
transcript.whisperx[60].start 3195.959
transcript.whisperx[60].end 3219.314
transcript.whisperx[60].text 公廠儲存化學品或一定規模以上之倉庫及公共危險物品室內儲存場所之管理權人依下列規定辦理,依平時備制並申報化學品或儲存物品之種類、數量、位置、平面配置圖及搶救必要資訊,並於火災發生時立即提供消防指揮人員。二、平時建立中機械業者資訊,於火災發生時主動調度救災所需中機械協助搶救,並支付所有必要費用。
transcript.whisperx[61].start 3220.134
transcript.whisperx[61].end 3234.814
transcript.whisperx[61].text 草案。三、火災發生時指派知情專人立即至現場協助救災,其知情專人由中央主管機關公告或訂定相關標準。場所之管理權人不能或未及依前向第二款調度時,主管機關得代為調度,並應向其求償相關必要費用。
transcript.whisperx[62].start 3235.655
transcript.whisperx[62].end 3262.066
transcript.whisperx[62].text 第一項一定規模以上倉庫之認定標準由中央主管機關定之。第一項第一款化學品或儲存物品之認定申報內容格式頻率方式保存資訊公開工商機密保護方式及其他應遵行事項之辦法由中央主管機關定之。委員牛許廷等提案第一項第一款最後增加該等資訊文字。第三款修正為三火災發生時指派專人至現場協助救災。其餘通國民黨黨團提案。
transcript.whisperx[63].start 3263.366
transcript.whisperx[63].end 3287.798
transcript.whisperx[63].text 草案。」委員洪孟楷等提案,同國民黨黨團提案。委員林思敏等提案,工廠儲存化學品或儲存一定規模之公共危險物品之場所管理權人應依下列規定辦理,依依與內部僱用設置有防火管理人證照之專職負責人,平時備制並定期申報化學品或儲存物品之種類數量備制平面配置圖及搶救必要資訊,並於火災發生時立即提供消防指揮人員。
transcript.whisperx[64].start 3288.558
transcript.whisperx[64].end 3302.754
transcript.whisperx[64].text 草案。二、火災發生時指派場所內部專職負責人或指派知情專人立即至現場協助救災。第一項一定規模之公共危險物品之認定標準由中央主管機關定之。第一項第一款之申報內容時程與方式等規定由中央主管機關定之。
transcript.whisperx[65].start 3303.735
transcript.whisperx[65].end 3317.046
transcript.whisperx[65].text 草案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。八、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[66].start 3327.895
transcript.whisperx[66].end 3353.898
transcript.whisperx[66].text 草案。」委員范雲等提案、委員王美惠等提案、委員張宏祿等提案及委員林思敏等提案均同行政院提案。委員伍麗華等提案第一項於倉庫前增加實驗室其餘同行政院提案。國民黨黨團提案第一項前段修正為儲存化學品之倉庫及公共危險物品室內儲存場所之管理全人其餘同行政院提案。委員牛許廷等提案同國民黨黨團提案。增訂第三章之一章名
transcript.whisperx[67].start 3354.699
transcript.whisperx[67].end 3379.453
transcript.whisperx[67].text 行政院提案、消防人員安全衛生防護委員范雲等提案、委員王美惠等提案、委員吳麗華等提案、委員黃捷等16人提案、國民黨黨團提案、委員牛旭廷等提案及委員林思敏等提案、張明君同行政院提案。增訂第25條之一,行政院提案,中央主管機關為預防消防人員基於其身份或職務活動所可能引起之生命、身體及健康危害,因聆聘消防機關代表公務人員協會
transcript.whisperx[68].start 3380.774
transcript.whisperx[68].end 3402.895
transcript.whisperx[68].text 代表及學者專家組成消防人員職務安全衛生諮詢會 諮詢會委員任意性別比例不得少於三分之一。諮詢會應就消防人員之職務安全衛生政策、安全衛生管理系統、安全衛生防護設備及措施等事項提供建議。諮詢會之組成任務、委員之資格條件、聆聘方式及其他相關事項之辦法由中央主管機關定之。
transcript.whisperx[69].start 3403.536
transcript.whisperx[69].end 3432.64
transcript.whisperx[69].text 草案、委員范雲等提案第一項與學者專家後增加及基層消防團體代表其餘同行政院提案。委員王美惠等提案同行政院提案並著作文字修正。委員伍麗華等提案第一項之公務人員協會代表修正為公務人員協會消防人員代表。第二項前段修正為諮詢會應由不同地區成員組成其餘同行政院提案。委員黃捷等16人提案第一項及第三項之聆聘文字修正為聘請並著作文字修正其餘同行政院提案。
transcript.whisperx[70].start 3433.46
transcript.whisperx[70].end 3455.876
transcript.whisperx[70].text 國民黨黨團提案、委員柳旭婷等提案、同行政院提案、委員林思明等提案、同委員范雲等提案。增訂第25條之二,行政院提案,各級消防機關應設安全衛生專責單位及治專責人員,但預算元額數未滿200人者,得僅治安全衛生專責人員。各級消防機關應執行下列事項,依建制消防人員安全衛生管理系統。
transcript.whisperx[71].start 3456.536
transcript.whisperx[71].end 3485.003
transcript.whisperx[71].text 草案。二、提供所屬消防人員執行職務必要之安全衛生防護設備及措施,各級消防機關應將前項各款事項公告周知所屬消防人員。委員范雲等提案,委員伍麗華等提案及委員牛旭廷等提案,均同行政院提案。委員王美惠等提案,第一項前段修正為各級消防機關應涉安全衛生專責單位及人員,第三項修正為前項各款事項各級消防機關應公告周知所屬消防人員,其餘同行政院提案。
transcript.whisperx[72].start 3485.823
transcript.whisperx[72].end 3501.295
transcript.whisperx[72].text 草案案。」委員黃捷等16人提案同委員王美惠等提案。國民黨黨團提案第一項第三項前段及第二項序文之各級消防機關修正為各級消防機關購其餘同行政院提案。委員林思敏等提案同國民黨黨團提案並著作文字修正。
transcript.whisperx[73].start 3501.975
transcript.whisperx[73].end 3506.76
transcript.whisperx[73].text 草案。」案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[74].start 3524.995
transcript.whisperx[74].end 3545.617
transcript.whisperx[74].text 國民黨黨團提案及委員紅蒙凱等提案第25條之一。前段之各級消防機關修正為各級消防機關構,中段增加任意性別比例不得低於三分之一文字,其餘同行政院提案。委員劉許廷等提案,中段增加任意性別比例不得低於三分之一文字,其餘同行政院提案。委員林思敏等提案,同國民黨黨團提案。
transcript.whisperx[75].start 3547.319
transcript.whisperx[75].end 3566.707
transcript.whisperx[75].text 草案 。行政院提案各級消防機關應辦理下列事項並報請中央主管機關備查。一、定期統計及評估消防人員安全衛生管理系統之建置成效。二、消防人員因其工作場所、作業活動或其他職業上原因引發疾病傷害失能或死亡之事故及時通報並作成調查記錄。
transcript.whisperx[76].start 3568.797
transcript.whisperx[76].end 3594.254
transcript.whisperx[76].text 草案。」委員范雲等提案,委員牛旭婷等提案,同行政院提案。委員王美惠等提案,委員黃捷等16人提案,同行政院提案,並著作文字修正。委員伍麗華等提案,續文修正為應定期辦理。第一款增加安全衛生防護設備等措施,其餘同行政院提案。國民黨黨團提案,續文前段之各級消防機關修正為各級消防機關購,其餘同行政院提案。委員林思敏等提案,同國民黨黨團提案。
transcript.whisperx[77].start 3595.655
transcript.whisperx[77].end 3617.24
transcript.whisperx[77].text 草案、增訂第25條之五行政院提案,中央主管機關獲其委託之團體機關構籍學校得查核各級消防機關消防人員安全衛生管理系統之建制情形,並由中央主管機關公告查核結果。前項查核結果績效良好者,中央主管機關得予獎勵及公開表揚,執行不利者得令其改善及提出懲處建議。
transcript.whisperx[78].start 3619.44
transcript.whisperx[78].end 3638.426
transcript.whisperx[78].text 草案 委員范雲等提案、委員吳立華等提案、委員劉許廷等提案、同行政院提案、委員王美惠等提案、委員黃捷等16人提案、同行政院提案並著作文字修正。五、國民黨黨團提案第一項中斷之各級消防機關修正為各級消防機關構,其餘同行政院提案。六、委員林思敏等提案同國民黨黨團提案並著作文字修正。
transcript.whisperx[79].start 3639.766
transcript.whisperx[79].end 3657.217
transcript.whisperx[79].text 草案 。行政院提案,各級消防機關對於所屬消防人員得定期實施特定項目之健康檢查,必要時並得實施臨時健康檢查,其檢查之項目及方式由中央主管機關會商、衛生環保等相關機關定之。消防人員有接受前項健康檢查之義務,
transcript.whisperx[80].start 3658.558
transcript.whisperx[80].end 3673.33
transcript.whisperx[80].text 草案 第一項健康檢查應由中央衛生主管機關評鑑和各自區域醫院或醫學中心為之。健康檢查記錄應由各級消防機關予以保存,並負擔健康檢查費用。實施臨時健康檢查時,各級消防機關應提供救災作業經歷資料與意願,
transcript.whisperx[81].start 3675.111
transcript.whisperx[81].end 3690.789
transcript.whisperx[81].text 草案案。」各級消防機關對於所屬消防人員健康檢查的結果應通報中央主管機關備查,以作為與其職務相關疾病預防之必要應用。委員范雲等提案同行政院提案,委員王美惠等提案,第二項修正為前項健康檢查,消防人員有接受之義務,
transcript.whisperx[82].start 3691.67
transcript.whisperx[82].end 3711.548
transcript.whisperx[82].text 草案。第三項前段之區域醫院或醫學中心修正為區域及以上醫院。第四項前段修正為各級消防機關對於健康檢查及結果。其餘同行政院提案。委員伍麗華等提案。第一項得定期實施特定項目之健康檢查修正為應定期實施特定項目之健康檢查。其餘同行政院提案。
transcript.whisperx[83].start 3712.268
transcript.whisperx[83].end 3735.707
transcript.whisperx[83].text 草案、委員黃捷等16人提案、第一項同委員伍麗華等提案、其餘同委員王美惠等提案。國民黨黨團提案第一項、第三項、第四項之各級消防機關修正為各級消防機關構。第一項之得定期實施特定項目之健康檢查修正為應定期實施特定項目之健康檢查。第四項末段疾病預防文字修正為健康管理措施其餘同行政院提案。
transcript.whisperx[84].start 3736.408
transcript.whisperx[84].end 3750.785
transcript.whisperx[84].text 草案、委員牛許廷等提案。第一項、第三項、第四項之各級消防機關構修正為各級消防機關其餘同國民黨黨團提案。委員林思明等提案。第一項、第三項之各級消防機關修正為各級消防機關構其餘同行政院提案。
transcript.whisperx[85].start 3751.906
transcript.whisperx[85].end 3757.089
transcript.whisperx[85].text 草案。」案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[86].start 3772.697
transcript.whisperx[86].end 3794.156
transcript.whisperx[86].text 草案、委員范雲等提案、委員吳立華等提案、委員牛許廷等提案、同行政院提案、委員王美惠等提案、委員黃捷等16人提案、同行政院提案並著作文字修正。國民黨黨團提案第一項前段之各級消防機關修正為各級消防機關狗,第二項後段修正為由中央主管機關會商考試員及勞動部定之,其餘同行政院提案。
transcript.whisperx[87].start 3794.957
transcript.whisperx[87].end 3805.692
transcript.whisperx[87].text 草案。」委員洪孟楷等提案第25條至2同國民黨黨團提案。委員林思敏等提案第一項前段至各級消防機關修正為各級消防機關苟其餘同行政院提案。
transcript.whisperx[88].start 3807.441
transcript.whisperx[88].end 3813.344
transcript.whisperx[88].text 草案案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[89].start 3827.93
transcript.whisperx[89].end 3846.765
transcript.whisperx[89].text 草案案。」委員黃捷等16人提案,增訂第二項,各級消防機關對於女性認成中會分免後未滿二年之消防人員處應提供適當之環境安全衛生防護設備及措施外,並因依醫生適性評估建議採取勤務調整或必要之健康保護措施。其餘同行政院提案。
transcript.whisperx[90].start 3847.846
transcript.whisperx[90].end 3873.588
transcript.whisperx[90].text 草案。」國民黨黨團提案,前段之各級消防機關修正為各級消防機關構,中段修正為懷孕及生產後未滿2年,其餘同行政院提案,委員林思明等提案,各級消防機關構因考量消防人員性別、年齡、身心障礙、女性認證、終極生產後未滿2年等因素之特殊需要,提供適當之環境、安全衛生防護設備及措施之特殊需要,
transcript.whisperx[91].start 3874.068
transcript.whisperx[91].end 3880.49
transcript.whisperx[91].text 提供適當之環境安全衛生防護設備及措施必要時應採取勤務調整或健康保護之措施。
transcript.whisperx[92].start 3883.89
transcript.whisperx[92].end 3910.666
transcript.whisperx[92].text 行政院提案各級政府辦理消防人員正安全衛生防護設備措施及健康檢查所需經費應優先編列預算之應。委員范雲等提案委員吳立華等提案國民黨黨團提案委員牛許廷等提案及委員林思明林思明等提案均同行政院提案委員王美惠等提案委員黃捷等16人提案刪除最莫居之之應二字其餘同行政院提案。增訂第25條之十委員范雲等提案
transcript.whisperx[93].start 3911.667
transcript.whisperx[93].end 3930.112
transcript.whisperx[93].text 草案。消防人員發現所屬消防機關有違反第25條之二、第25條之三、第25條之四、第25條之七及第25條之八者,得向主管機關申訴。消防機關不得對前向申訴之消防人員予以不利之行政處分、不合理之管理措施或有關工作條件之處置。
transcript.whisperx[94].start 3931.132
transcript.whisperx[94].end 3955.878
transcript.whisperx[94].text 草案。第二十七條之一,國民黨黨團提案第一項中段修正為因災害搶救或其他消防勤務致發生死亡、重傷或戰時權失能事故之原因,其餘同現行條文,委員洪孟楷等提案同國民黨黨團提案。委員林思敏等提案第一項之戰時權失能修正為失能,第二項前段之製作事故原因調查報告修正為製作並公告事故原因調查報告,其餘同國民黨黨團提案。
transcript.whisperx[95].start 3957.418
transcript.whisperx[95].end 3977.753
transcript.whisperx[95].text 第28條行政院提案第一項後段增加及其他相關事項文字增訂第三項參加第一項義勇消防組織人員之安全衛生防護事項得准用第25條之二第二項及第25條之四規定其餘同現行條文委員范雲等提案委員王美惠等提案委員黃捷等16人提案均同行政院提案
transcript.whisperx[96].start 3978.473
transcript.whisperx[96].end 3999.634
transcript.whisperx[96].text 審查委員吳立華等提案第一項於服勤後增加安全衛生防護設備文字其餘同行政院提案。國民黨黨團提案第三項末段增加第25條之6第一項規定其餘同行政院提案。委員牛許廷等提案第三項末段增加第25條之6第一項及第三項規定其餘同行政院提案。委員林思明等提案同國民黨黨團提案。
transcript.whisperx[97].start 4001.115
transcript.whisperx[97].end 4017.697
transcript.whisperx[97].text 第35條行政院提案,場所之管理權人有下列情形之一,於發生火災時致人與死者處1年以上7年以下有期徒刑,得病科信貸幣100萬元以上500萬元以下罰金,致重傷者處6月以上5年以下有期徒刑,得病科信貸幣50萬元以上250萬元以下罰金。
transcript.whisperx[98].start 4019.599
transcript.whisperx[98].end 4041.246
transcript.whisperx[98].text 草案案。一、第六條第一項鎖定標準,應設置消防安全設備之供營業使用場所,為依規定設置或維護消防安全設備。二、第六條第四項鎖定應設置住宅用火災警報器之場所,為依規定設置或維護住宅用火災警報器。十三條第一項鎖定一定規模以上之建築物,為訂定
transcript.whisperx[99].start 4042.106
transcript.whisperx[99].end 4059.168
transcript.whisperx[99].text 消防防護計劃或施工中消防防護計劃或為一個該計劃執行有關避難引導必要之業務。四、第15條第一項所定達管質量公共危險物品之製造、儲存或處理場所,未符合同條第二項所定辦法中有關設置或維護場所之位置、構造或設備規定。
transcript.whisperx[100].start 4060.45
transcript.whisperx[100].end 4086.697
transcript.whisperx[100].text 草案。五、第15條之六第一項所定製造儲存及處理公共危險物品和技達管制量30倍以上場所,為訂定消防防災計劃或為以消防防災計劃執行有關避難引導必要之業務。委員范雲等提案、委員王美惠等提案、委員牛許廷等提案、軍統行政院提案。國民黨黨團提案第五款儲存及處理公共危險物品修正為儲存或處理公共危險物品。增訂第六款即第七款
transcript.whisperx[101].start 4087.785
transcript.whisperx[101].end 4104.408
transcript.whisperx[101].text 草案 第21條之一第一項第一款所定於為立即提供消防指揮人員該等書面或雲端資訊或提供資訊內容虛偽不實者。七、第二十一條之一第一項第三款所定為指派知情專人至現場協助救災。其餘同行政院提案
transcript.whisperx[102].start 4104.889
transcript.whisperx[102].end 4131.821
transcript.whisperx[102].text 草案、委員侯孟楷等提案同國民黨黨團提案。五、繼續審查委員林思明等提案序文之法進額度分別修正為新台幣100萬元以上、1000萬元以下及新台幣50萬元以上、500萬元以下,增訂第6款、第7款。六、第二十一條之一第一項第一款所定為立即提供消防指揮人員相關之必要且正確之資訊。七、第二十一條之一第一項第二款所定場所職務內部專職負責人或未指派知情專人
transcript.whisperx[103].start 4133.081
transcript.whisperx[103].end 4158.465
transcript.whisperx[103].text 立即致現場協助救災。」其餘同行政院提案。第三十七條,行政院提案刪除第一項第一款第二款前段,依第六條第一項所定標準應設置消防安全設備,文字其餘同現行條文。委員范雲等提案第一項第一款罰還上限修正為該場所年營業額一定比例以下罰還,裁罰金額倍數表由中央主管機關令定之。其餘同行政院提案。
transcript.whisperx[104].start 4159.265
transcript.whisperx[104].end 4185.214
transcript.whisperx[104].text 草案。」委員王美惠等提案,第一項第一款罰還修正為新台幣2萬元以上、100萬元以下,第二款罰還修正為新台幣2萬元以上、100萬元以下,第三項罰還修正為新台幣1萬元以上、30萬元以下,其餘同行政院提案。國民黨黨團提案第二項中段增加其清潔重大禍金處罰三次後人為改善者文字,並將得修正為因,其餘同行政院提案。
transcript.whisperx[105].start 4185.934
transcript.whisperx[105].end 4205.147
transcript.whisperx[105].text 草案、委員牛許廷等提案、同行政院提案、委員洪孟凱等提案、同國民黨黨團提案、委員林思明等提案。第一項第一款罰還修正為新台幣5萬元以上、50萬元以下。第二款罰還修正為新台幣3萬元以上、30萬元以下罰還。第一項第一款、第二款之限期改善文字修正為
transcript.whisperx[106].start 4206.348
transcript.whisperx[106].end 4233.771
transcript.whisperx[106].text 草案 修正為於30日內改善。第二項後段修正為借其人不改善者得按次處罰。請截重大者應於30日以下之停業或停止其使用之處分。其餘同行政院提案。第40條行政院提案增訂第二項,一定規模以上之建築物發生火災時管理權人違反第13條第4項規定,為依消防防護計劃執行有關防火管理上必要之業務,處新台幣2萬元以上30萬元以下罰還。
transcript.whisperx[107].start 4236.476
transcript.whisperx[107].end 4254.63
transcript.whisperx[107].text 草案。第二項一列第三項,第三項一列第四項,並著作文字修正其餘同線性條文。委員范雲等提案,第一項、第二項及第三項續文之法環上限修正為該場所年一、二額一定比例以下法環,裁罰金額及倍數表由中央主管機關另訂之,其餘同行政院提案。
transcript.whisperx[108].start 4255.31
transcript.whisperx[108].end 4279.632
transcript.whisperx[108].text 草案。」委員王美惠等提案第一項第二項罰還分別修正為新台幣2萬元以上100萬元以下第三項罰還修正為新台幣2萬元以上30萬元以下其餘同行政院提案國民黨黨團提案第一項之並得勒令管理權人停工修正為應勒令管理權人提供第四項中段增加其情節重大或經處罰三次後人為改善者文字並將得修正為應其餘同行政院提案
transcript.whisperx[109].start 4280.333
transcript.whisperx[109].end 4304.665
transcript.whisperx[109].text 草案、委員牛許廷等提案同行政院提案、委員洪孟楷等提案同國民黨黨團提案、委員林思明等提案第一項、第二項、第三項罰還修正為新台幣5萬元以上、100萬元以下。第三項續文之限期改善文字修正為於30日內改善。第四項後段修正為借其人不改善者得按次處罰,請結重大者應於30日以下之停業或停止其使用之處分。
transcript.whisperx[110].start 4305.385
transcript.whisperx[110].end 4330.378
transcript.whisperx[110].text 其與同行政院提案。第42條行政院提案第15條第一項所定達管質量公共危險物品及可燃性高壓器體質製造儲存或處理場所其儲存、處理或搬運未符合同條第二項所定辦法中有關安全管理規定者處其管理權人或行為人心態比2萬元以上30萬元以下罰還。第15條第一項所定達管質量公共危險物品及可燃性高壓器體質製造儲存或處理場所
transcript.whisperx[111].start 4331.098
transcript.whisperx[111].end 4352.657
transcript.whisperx[111].text 草案、其未自構造或設備未符合同條第二項鎖定辦法中有關設置標準規定者處其管理權人信貸比2萬元以上、150萬元以下罰還。依前二項規定處罰還後,經通知限期改善皆其人為改善者得安次處罰,並得予以30日以下之停驗或停止其使用之處分。第15條之6第一項規定之管理權人未責由保安監督人
transcript.whisperx[112].start 4353.197
transcript.whisperx[112].end 4374.746
transcript.whisperx[112].text 庭定消防防災計劃處新台幣2萬元以上30萬元以下罰還,並通知限期改善,藉其為改善者得按次處罰。製造儲存及處理公共危險物品和濟達管質量30倍以上場所發生火災時,管理學人違反第15條之6第一項規定,為依消防防災計劃執行有關危險物品管理必要之業務處新台幣2萬元以上30萬元以下罰還。
transcript.whisperx[113].start 4376.047
transcript.whisperx[113].end 4392.241
transcript.whisperx[113].text 草案 委員范雲等提案。第一項、第二項、第四項及第五項之法環上限修正為該場所年一、二一定比例以下法環、財發金額及倍數表中央主管機關令定之。第三項後段修正為並得予以停業或停止其使用之處分至其改善完畢為止。其餘同行政院提案。
transcript.whisperx[114].start 4393.001
transcript.whisperx[114].end 4421.429
transcript.whisperx[114].text 草案。」委員王美惠等提案,第一項法環修正為新台幣2萬元以上、100萬元以下,第二項法環修正為新台幣2萬元以上、500萬元以下,第四項、第五項法環修正為新台幣2萬元以上、100萬元以下,其餘同行政院提案。國民黨黨團提案,第一項法環修正為新台幣3萬元以上、30萬元以下,第二項法環修正為新台幣3萬元以上、150萬元以下,第三項中段增加,其情節重大或經處罰三次後仍未改善者文字,並將得修正為因。
transcript.whisperx[115].start 4422.129
transcript.whisperx[115].end 4441.7
transcript.whisperx[115].text 草案 違反第15條第5項規定者處新台幣2萬元以上、30萬元以下罰還。原第4項、第5項一列第5項、第6項並將罰還修正為新台幣3萬元以上、150萬元以下。其餘同行政院提案。委員牛許廷等提案同行政院提案。委員侯孟楷等提案同國民黨黨團提案。
transcript.whisperx[116].start 4442.841
transcript.whisperx[116].end 4470.753
transcript.whisperx[116].text 草案。」委員林思敏等提案第一、二、四、五項後段修正為處其管理權人或行為人新台幣10萬元以上、300萬元或該場所上一會計年度營業銷售金額之40%以下之罰還。第三項修正為一前二項規定處罰還後,經通知於30日內改善借其人為改善者得按次處罰,請結重大者並得予以停業或停止其使用之處分,至其改善完畢為止。其餘同行政院提案
transcript.whisperx[117].start 4471.513
transcript.whisperx[117].end 4487.603
transcript.whisperx[117].text 草案。」第四十二條之一國民黨黨團提案將序文末段之德連續處罰修正為德案次處罰其餘同現行條文。第四十二條之三行政院提案刪除第一項第六款未則由保安監督人訂定消防防災計劃等文字其餘同現行條文。
transcript.whisperx[118].start 4488.524
transcript.whisperx[118].end 4511.657
transcript.whisperx[118].text 草案、委員范雲等提案、委員劉許廷等提案、同行政院提案、委員王美惠等提案第一項法環修正為新台幣2萬元以上30萬元以下其餘同行政院提案。國民黨黨團提案將第一項第6款後段之或自主檢查修正為即自主檢查其餘同行政院提案。委員洪孟凱等提案及委員林思敏等提案同國民黨黨團提案。第43條國民黨黨團提案第一項同現行條文增訂第二項
transcript.whisperx[119].start 4515.839
transcript.whisperx[119].end 4530.699
transcript.whisperx[119].text 拒絕一第27條之一所為調閱提供資料或文件者處新台幣6000元以上10萬元以下罰還。委員楊瓊英等提案罰還修正為新台幣6萬元以上100萬元以下其餘通現行條文。委員洪孟凱等提案通國民黨黨團提案。
transcript.whisperx[120].start 4532.421
transcript.whisperx[120].end 4554.097
transcript.whisperx[120].text 第43條之一行政院提案,第一項修正違反第21條之一第一款規定,場所之管理權人平時未備置化學品種類數量未置平面配置圖或搶救必要資訊或與火災發生所未立即提供消防指揮人員該等資訊或提供資訊內容需為不實者,處管理權人心態並3萬元以上3百萬元以下罰還。
transcript.whisperx[121].start 4554.998
transcript.whisperx[121].end 4580.334
transcript.whisperx[121].text 草案、將第二項工廠修正為場所,並將罰款修正為新台幣50萬元以上、1000萬元以下。增訂第三項,第二十一條之二第一項規定之場所管理權人對於具有危害性之化學品違反該項規定位於該場所明顯位置設置危害風險標示板或危害風險有變動時未及時更新或設置標示板違反同條第二項公告有關等級、內容、顏色、大小或設置位置之規定者
transcript.whisperx[122].start 4580.934
transcript.whisperx[122].end 4597.679
transcript.whisperx[122].text 草案 處管理權人信貸幣2萬元以上、150萬元以下罰還,其餘同現行條文。委員范雲等提案第一項、第二項罰還上限修正為該工廠年營業額一定比例以下之罰還,裁罰金額及倍數表中央主管機關令定之。第二項後段增加若於發生火災時
transcript.whisperx[123].start 4599.019
transcript.whisperx[123].end 4617.496
transcript.whisperx[123].text 草案 並致人與死者處1年以上7年以下有期徒刑。其餘同行政院提案委員王美惠等提案第一項法環修正為新台幣3萬元以上1000萬元以下第二項法環修正為新台幣50萬元以上2000萬元以下第三項法環修正為新台幣2萬元以上500萬元以下其餘同行政院提案
transcript.whisperx[124].start 4618.317
transcript.whisperx[124].end 4645.497
transcript.whisperx[124].text 草案。」委員張宏祿等提案第一項前段修正委違反第21條之一第一項規定者其餘同行政院提案。國民黨黨團提案第43條之一違反第21條之一第一款規定場所致管理權人平時未備置化學品或儲存物品之種類數量未置平面配置圖或搶救必要資訊或與火災發生時未立即提供消防指揮人員該等資訊或提供資訊內容需為不實者處管理權人新台幣3萬元以上3百萬元以下罰還。
transcript.whisperx[125].start 4646.698
transcript.whisperx[125].end 4675.026
transcript.whisperx[125].text 草案 違反第二十一條之一第二款規定場所之管理權人平時為建立重機械業者資訊或與火災發生時待遇調度重機械者處管理權人薪台幣二萬元以上二百萬元以下罰還違反第二十一條之一第三款規定場所之管理權人與火災發生時為指派知情專人之現場協助救災處管理權人薪台幣五十萬元以上一千萬元以下罰還前三項經主管機關認定有情節重大者得處場所上一會計年度年
transcript.whisperx[126].start 4676.01
transcript.whisperx[126].end 4697.449
transcript.whisperx[126].text 上一會計年度銷售金額10%以下罰環不受前三項罰環金額限制。前項場所上一會計年度銷售金額之計算請結重大之認定罰環計算之辦法由中央主管機關定之。第二十一條之二第一項規定之場所管理權人對於具有危害性之化學品公共危險物品違反該項規定位於該場所明顯位置設置
transcript.whisperx[127].start 4698.45
transcript.whisperx[127].end 4723.961
transcript.whisperx[127].text 危害風險標示板或危害風險有變動時未及時更新或設置標示板違反同條第二項公告有關等級、內容、顏色、大小或設置位置之規定者處管理權人新台幣2萬元以上、150萬元以下罰還。依第一項、第二項或第六項規定處罰還者並通知限期改善,藉其人為改善者按次處罰。其情節重大或經處罰三次後人為改善者應於90日以下之停業或停止其使用之處分。
transcript.whisperx[128].start 4724.841
transcript.whisperx[128].end 4744.14
transcript.whisperx[128].text 委員甯許亭等提案第43條之一違反第21條之一第一款規定,場所之管理權人平時未配置化學品或儲存物品之種類數量未至平面配置圖或搶救必要資訊未依規定申報或與火災發生時未立即提供消防指揮人員該等資訊或提供資訊內容需為不實者。
transcript.whisperx[129].start 4744.76
transcript.whisperx[129].end 4769.413
transcript.whisperx[129].text 草案 處管理權人新台幣3萬元以上300萬元以下罰還違反第21條之一第2款規定場所之管理權人平時未建立重機械業者資訊或與火災發生時待遇調度重機械者處管理權人新台幣2萬元以上200萬元以下罰還違反第21條之一第3款規定場所之管理權人與火災發生時未指派專人至現場協助救災處管理權人新台幣50萬元以上1000萬元以下罰還
transcript.whisperx[130].start 4770.533
transcript.whisperx[130].end 4789.383
transcript.whisperx[130].text 第21條之二第一項規定之場所管理權人對於具有危害性之化學品違反該項規定位於該場所明顯位置設置危害風險標示板或危害風險有變動時為即時更新或設置標示板違反同條第二項公告有關等級內容顏色大小或設置位置之規定者處管理權人信貸幣2萬元以上150萬元以下罰還
transcript.whisperx[131].start 4791.684
transcript.whisperx[131].end 4814.237
transcript.whisperx[131].text 一、第一項、第二項或第四項規定處罰還者並通知現其改善,藉其人為改善者按次處罰並得於90日以下之停業或停止其使用之處分。委員楊瓊英等提案第一項罰還修正為新台幣30萬元以上600萬元以下,第二項罰還修正為新台幣500萬元以上1500萬元以下,其餘同現行條文。委員洪孟楷等提案同國民黨黨團提案。
transcript.whisperx[132].start 4816.38
transcript.whisperx[132].end 4832.455
transcript.whisperx[132].text 委員邱若驊等提案第一項法環修正為新台幣3萬元以上120萬元以下第二項法環修正為新台幣50萬元以上150萬元以下其餘同線型條文。委員林思敏等提案第43條之一違反第21條之一第一款規定長所致管理權人
transcript.whisperx[133].start 4833.075
transcript.whisperx[133].end 4856.208
transcript.whisperx[133].text 平時未備置化學品或儲存物品之種類、數量、未置平面配置圖或搶救必要資訊或與火災發生時未立即提供消防指揮人員該等資訊或提供資訊內容需為不實者處管理權人新台幣10萬元以上300萬元或該場所上一塊近年度營業銷售金額至40%以下之罰還。違反第21條之一第一項第二款規定場所之管理權人與火災發生時
transcript.whisperx[134].start 4857.228
transcript.whisperx[134].end 4875.658
transcript.whisperx[134].text 草案 為指派場所內部專職負責人或知情專人之現場協助救災處管理權人新台幣50萬元以上、1000萬元或該場所上億塊金年度營業銷售金額40%以下之罰款若於發生火災時因違反前二項規定而致人與死者因處一年以上、七年以下有期徒刑
transcript.whisperx[135].start 4876.258
transcript.whisperx[135].end 4897.579
transcript.whisperx[135].text 第21條之二第一項規定之場所管理權人對於具有危害性之化學品公共危險物品違反該項規定位於該場所明顯位置設置危害風險標示板或危害風險有變動時未及時更新或設置標示板違反同條第二項公告有關等級內容顏色大小或設置位置之規定者處管理權人新台幣5萬元以上150萬元以下之罰還
transcript.whisperx[136].start 4898.92
transcript.whisperx[136].end 4913.503
transcript.whisperx[136].text 草案。」案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。三、繼續審查委員
transcript.whisperx[137].start 4929.066
transcript.whisperx[137].end 4950.027
transcript.whisperx[137].text 草案。」委員范雲等提案,增加第三款。三、為一第25條之八規定考量特殊需要並提供所屬消防人員適當之環境安全衛生防護設備及措施,其餘同行政院提案。委員王美惠等提案,虛文增加或改善不完全等文字,並將法環修正為新台幣3萬元以上100萬元以下,其餘同行政院提案。
transcript.whisperx[138].start 4950.647
transcript.whisperx[138].end 4971.042
transcript.whisperx[138].text 草案、委員伍立華等提案、同行政院提案、委員黃捷等16人提案、序文增加或改善不完全等文字、其餘同行政院提案並著作文字修正。五、國民黨黨團提案序文前段至各級消防機關修正為各級消防機關構、其餘同行政院提案。六、委員林思敏等提案增訂第三款同委員范雲等提案、其餘同國民黨黨團提案。
transcript.whisperx[139].start 4972.663
transcript.whisperx[139].end 4988.796
transcript.whisperx[139].text 草案。」案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。三、繼續審查委員
transcript.whisperx[140].start 5005.712
transcript.whisperx[140].end 5020.951
transcript.whisperx[140].text 修正動議第28條第一項後段扶擒及其他相關事項之辦法。
transcript.whisperx[141].start 5023.891
transcript.whisperx[141].end 5042.93
transcript.whisperx[141].text 第3項參加第一項義勇消防組織人員之安全衛生防護事項的準用第25條之二、第二項、第三項、第25條之四、第25條之六之規定其餘同行政院提案提案人委員王美惠等3人修正動議二、第15條第4項
transcript.whisperx[142].start 5048.763
transcript.whisperx[142].end 5062.035
transcript.whisperx[142].text 草案 修正為直轄事先是主管機關接貨前項舉發應為必要之調查並於60日內將處理情形以書面通知舉發人。五、六。
transcript.whisperx[143].start 5063.319
transcript.whisperx[143].end 5084.469
transcript.whisperx[143].text 草案。第六項修正為第三項舉發人之單位主管僱主不得因其舉發行為而予以解僱降調減薪損害其依法令契約或習慣上所應享有之權益或其他不利之處分。第七項舉發人之單位主管僱主為前項行為之一者無效。其餘同行政院提案。第21條之一
transcript.whisperx[144].start 5090.29
transcript.whisperx[144].end 5100.494
transcript.whisperx[144].text 草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[145].start 5111.954
transcript.whisperx[145].end 5130.845
transcript.whisperx[145].text 草案。」第二項,序文修正為各級消防機關應執行下列事項並落實性別平等原則,其餘同行政院提案。第二十五條之六,增訂第二項,第二項,刪除第二項,
transcript.whisperx[146].start 5134.606
transcript.whisperx[146].end 5152.393
transcript.whisperx[146].text 刪除第二項,原來的第三四項一列為第二三項,其餘同行政院提案,提案人委員蘇巧慧等4人,宣讀完畢。好,那我們現在進行協商。
transcript.whisperx[147].start 5178.083
transcript.whisperx[147].end 5202.988
transcript.whisperx[147].text 草案案件。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員
transcript.whisperx[148].start 5204.209
transcript.whisperx[148].end 5217.378
transcript.whisperx[148].text 沒有?好,那造型這面板通過?沒有那第9條國民黨團的提案大家有沒有意見?
transcript.whisperx[149].start 5232.867
transcript.whisperx[149].end 5236.388
transcript.whisperx[149].text 那個消防署簡單說明一下
transcript.whisperx[150].start 5253.746
transcript.whisperx[150].end 5253.846
transcript.whisperx[150].text 草案。
transcript.whisperx[151].start 5276.77
transcript.whisperx[151].end 5285.78
transcript.whisperx[151].text 所以就不要修正就對了?建築委員條文是。照原條文是不是?對。好,那大家有沒有意見?不修正。好,那就不以修訂。好,來,那我們現在帶來第15條。好,黃捷委員。
transcript.whisperx[152].start 5294.517
transcript.whisperx[152].end 5313.674
transcript.whisperx[152].text 好 謝謝那因為第15條裡面當然很感謝院版有把我原本建議的一些缺少者保護的條款都有採納進去包括說給予這個舉發人一個法律的協助那我還是希望表達一下意見啦就是有一部分沒有被採納的
transcript.whisperx[153].start 5314.835
transcript.whisperx[153].end 5317.217
transcript.whisperx[153].text 草案案件 回報部分條文修正草案件 回報部分條文修正草案件 回報部分條文修正草案件
transcript.whisperx[154].start 5338.297
transcript.whisperx[154].end 5364.368
transcript.whisperx[154].text 那如果沒有辦法的話那還是希望消防署可以一步一步來啦越來越進步那我覺得這個吹哨者保護的最進步的這個精神應該要是這樣子那其實在我們勞基法74條裡面也有類似的條款了就是要在60天內書面回覆舉發人所以我也希望說未來這個吹哨者保護可以做得更好以上建議謝謝
transcript.whisperx[155].start 5368.518
transcript.whisperx[155].end 5395.592
transcript.whisperx[155].text 我看一下我們裡面幾位委員提案的方向以及現在行政院所提出來的方向基本上是同意有危險物品公共危險物品的這些場所的員工可以向主管機關來舉發這些危險物品他可能存放的安全
transcript.whisperx[156].start 5396.152
transcript.whisperx[156].end 5418.201
transcript.whisperx[156].text 草案 等機制,我們表示同意。當然其他委員也有提出更高規格的這些方案等等的。那我也比較支持說我們先朝向可以執行而且不會妨礙到安全又有進步的這個方案來處理。以上。好,謝謝。那消防組要不要說一下。
transcript.whisperx[157].start 5425.992
transcript.whisperx[157].end 5451.398
transcript.whisperx[157].text 感謝委員會對請願支持那我們吹哨者在這一次的立法例算是很新的一個做法那很感謝黃委員這邊黃委員支持我們建議是先有這個精神那成竹委員所提到逐步來強化它的內容那先讓這個制度能夠先推動那後續我們再來推動以後如果說還需要再做精進我們再做進一步的精進謝謝
transcript.whisperx[158].start 5454.565
transcript.whisperx[158].end 5457.442
transcript.whisperx[158].text 好,那這樣各位委員...噢噢,劉雪凌
transcript.whisperx[159].start 5462.782
transcript.whisperx[159].end 5488.835
transcript.whisperx[159].text 好 謝謝主席針對第15條當然要討論所謂的接避者保護的部分當然院版寫的是比較寬鬆當然我們從在黨歷程來講我們當然希望它這個強度可以高一點院版裡面主張就是說應該是由相關的法規來做規範所以希望維持院版的條文不過我提醒一下比如說我舉個例子比如說水汙染防治法39條之一講說這些
transcript.whisperx[160].start 5494.438
transcript.whisperx[160].end 5510.468
transcript.whisperx[160].text 水污染防治吹哨者 行使管理權之人為前項規定所為之解雇、降調、減薪或其他不利處分者無效。也就是說在針對這種水污染吹哨者保護
transcript.whisperx[161].start 5511.348
transcript.whisperx[161].end 5530.135
transcript.whisperx[161].text 的相關條文,在這裡面其實也是有做這個敘述,空污防治法也是一樣,所以說個別的行政法中你如果去訂立相關的規定的話,其實沒有問題,不會說是這是司法,這個司法,我想是私人的司法的問題,所以就沒有辦法處理,我覺得不會有這個問題,是不是來做一下參考,我們把強度拉高一點以上。
transcript.whisperx[162].start 5533.325
transcript.whisperx[162].end 5546.776
transcript.whisperx[162].text 好,那這樣子各位委員,我們是不是照行政院版先通過吧?等一下等一下等一下,你總要回應啊,不然咧?好,那請他回應。
transcript.whisperx[163].start 5550.776
transcript.whisperx[163].end 5558.401
transcript.whisperx[163].text 草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[164].start 5577.573
transcript.whisperx[164].end 5599.415
transcript.whisperx[164].text 我比較建議是不是能夠朝向我們先能夠執行以後那如果說真的要執行在更強的強度因為消防法修正去年才修正過那今年是馬上做修正那如果說真的在執行上面有這樣的需求或者有什麼自然來行的地方是不是容許我們有一些經驗值以後再來做一個增進跟強化
transcript.whisperx[165].start 5602.595
transcript.whisperx[165].end 5621.443
transcript.whisperx[165].text 我現在的問題就是這樣嘛就是說你現在的法條裡面只有寫說舉發人的單位主管僱主不得因為舉發行為予以解雇調職跟不利處分嘛就是你只能講不行嘛那會不會只是淪為所謂的道德勸說他如果真的這樣做的時候相關來講要付的代價跟一些跟一些是什麼事要做清楚的交代要不然我們很難確定萬一大家
transcript.whisperx[166].start 5622.923
transcript.whisperx[166].end 5632.553
transcript.whisperx[166].text 草案 法條講是這樣講,但這些人還是這樣處理,讓吹哨者保護這一段沒有辦法被落實,那怎麼辦呢?總要有一些說法吧,好不好?是不是再思考一下?請部長
transcript.whisperx[167].start 5638.257
transcript.whisperx[167].end 5662.065
transcript.whisperx[167].text 我來回應一下劉委員的部分其實在我們吹哨者保護條款裡面最重要在消防法的精神就是要確保消防的這樣的業務不要被這個所謂的僱主或是不肖的僱主有所隱瞞所以我們當然是以這個單位主管的不得已舉發行為與解僱調職或其他不利的處分但是我們在第二項第三項裡面最重要就是說如果查證屬實的話呢
transcript.whisperx[168].start 5663.545
transcript.whisperx[168].end 5678.067
transcript.whisperx[168].text 草案 處以罰緩,然後要罰緩的總收入的一定比例要提充獎金來獎勵舉發人。也就是說在我們的立場上面當然是保護吹哨者之外同樣的在我們的消防法的精神是要確保
transcript.whisperx[169].start 5679.128
transcript.whisperx[169].end 5702.171
transcript.whisperx[169].text 這些所謂的液化石油器、零售業者他們的消防安全所以我們是基於消防安全的立場來保護這個營業場所或者是銷售場所裡面不要有任何火災發生那如果說有任何其他的這項行為假設說這個舉發人或者是他可能是工作的關係會被其他的解雇的事實的話在我們的消防法裡面有保護的條款
transcript.whisperx[170].start 5703.092
transcript.whisperx[170].end 5707.874
transcript.whisperx[170].text 草案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[171].start 5729.623
transcript.whisperx[171].end 5729.744
transcript.whisperx[171].text 草案案。
transcript.whisperx[172].start 5743.447
transcript.whisperx[172].end 5769.418
transcript.whisperx[172].text 涉嫌部長說明不過這個事情就是說只是講法不一樣強度不一樣而已嘛你按照行政院的講法就是不可以這樣那不可以這樣那你可能有若干的罰則或什麼但我們擔心強度不夠那按照比如說國民黨黨版的版本去寫說解雇降調減薪不力處分無效其實也不會增加消防單位的負擔啊因為他只是講只是在法條明令有一個依據說這個事情你要用這樣的處分方式來處理這些吹哨者是無效的
transcript.whisperx[173].start 5769.938
transcript.whisperx[173].end 5770.598
transcript.whisperx[173].text 案。三、繼續審查委員黃捷等17人擬具
transcript.whisperx[174].start 5793.243
transcript.whisperx[174].end 5813.594
transcript.whisperx[174].text 但今天法條審查數量很多這個我本席也理解啦如果在這部分沒有辦法達成共識的保留的話我想我是可以接受的好不好請主席裁示我覺得這個沒有特別需要保留啦我覺得讓他們在立法說明裡面說得清楚一點就好了啦好不好好不好
transcript.whisperx[175].start 5825.891
transcript.whisperx[175].end 5848.207
transcript.whisperx[175].text 紅委員要說嗎主席現在我們是針對政院版跟我們各黨團和委員版本這邊第15條在做討論嘛是不是那我其實剛剛在講的時候開宗明義我已經講了這是吹哨者相關的條例啦那其實最重點就在於是說我們也希望是
transcript.whisperx[176].start 5850.048
transcript.whisperx[176].end 5875.005
transcript.whisperx[176].text 內部的人可以來去先去做舉發或是說先去做一個防範未來嗎那現階段來講看起來政院的一個部分並沒有含瓜的那麼的一個詳實所以我們也希望我們也希望是提供然後還有就主管機關如果說舉發的部分的話也要提供必要的一個法律協助或者是說能夠有一些相關的一個配套嗎
transcript.whisperx[177].start 5876.158
transcript.whisperx[177].end 5902.251
transcript.whisperx[177].text 那在目前這次政院版裡面都沒有寫到都沒有把它給精進或是說完整的一個地方啊是不是能夠 因為我覺得很多委員都有這樣子一個立法精神跟相關的版本所以我想我們的共識也都是希望能夠用更安全或者是說其實重點在於是說真的犯罪的人或是違規的人要被揪出來啊
transcript.whisperx[178].start 5902.751
transcript.whisperx[178].end 5922.996
transcript.whisperx[178].text 我覺得這才是我們的核心價值跟概念那怎麼樣去做讓犯罪的人違規的人他的一個犯行跟惡意被不管是內部員工不管是外部瞭解的人來去把他給踢爆而不要說造成災害發生的時候要我們的消防弟兄去以身試法或是以身
transcript.whisperx[179].start 5924.66
transcript.whisperx[179].end 5925.702
transcript.whisperx[179].text 草案案件事齋 。
transcript.whisperx[180].start 5936.974
transcript.whisperx[180].end 5937.034
transcript.whisperx[180].text 草案。
transcript.whisperx[181].start 5955.566
transcript.whisperx[181].end 5957.528
transcript.whisperx[181].text 草案案件。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[182].start 5982.961
transcript.whisperx[182].end 5984.807
transcript.whisperx[182].text 草案案件。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[183].start 5989.318
transcript.whisperx[183].end 6016.264
transcript.whisperx[183].text 也是由勞工發現事業單位違反勞基法規定的時候得向僱主、主管機關、檢察機構申訴。第二項部分是僱主不得因勞工的申訴而以解僱降調減薪,損害其依法令或契約習慣上的應享有權益或其他不利之處分。第三項是有規定到僱主為前項行為之一者無效。
transcript.whisperx[184].start 6017.144
transcript.whisperx[184].end 6039.652
transcript.whisperx[184].text 這個事目前在勞動基層法有作專案的規定,是要報告。好,還有沒有委員喔?對啊。好好好。好,許委員。
transcript.whisperx[185].start 6042.4
transcript.whisperx[185].end 6067.577
transcript.whisperx[185].text 本席也有提第15條的修正動議那這個精神也是如同剛剛洪孟楷委員還有前面委員所說的我們現在如果這個吹哨者他沒有本席提案是希望如果經查證屬實但有犯刑法特別刑法之妨礙秘密罪或背信罪者免除其刑
transcript.whisperx[186].start 6068.399
transcript.whisperx[186].end 6084.992
transcript.whisperx[186].text 原因就是說如果你還是給他輕罪他們會不敢不敢他還是不敢揭露還是不敢揭發所以我們希望是可以免除其刑那最重要就是如同剛剛前面委員所說就是能夠真正
transcript.whisperx[187].start 6086.38
transcript.whisperx[187].end 6090.283
transcript.whisperx[187].text 草案案件事宜。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具、「消防法部分條文修正草案案件事宜。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[188].start 6113.168
transcript.whisperx[188].end 6113.208
transcript.whisperx[188].text 草案。
transcript.whisperx[189].start 6143.348
transcript.whisperx[189].end 6161.926
transcript.whisperx[189].text 草案 第4項 以及在第5項第6項的部分也有做一些增加或調整那其實我就不再贅述文字的部分了啦但是我跟大家說明一下其實是行政院版的原條文呢在
transcript.whisperx[190].start 6165.768
transcript.whisperx[190].end 6184.813
transcript.whisperx[190].text 舉發人之單位主管、僱主不得因其舉發行為而予解僱、調職或其他不利之處分。」行政院的版本是寫這樣比較簡單的文字但是呢我認為因為其實最會發生爭議的還有最會讓大家希望能夠看清楚的其實正是在這一條不利處分的部分
transcript.whisperx[191].start 6185.333
transcript.whisperx[191].end 6208.732
transcript.whisperx[191].text 所以我參照了勞基法74條第二項的部分以及第三項的部分甚至是第四項如果有這些主管機關檢查機構於第一接獲申訴之後因為必要之調查必須60日內將處理行為以書面通知勞工等相關勞基法的規定在適當的位置呢修正進今天的要大家討論第15條這個
transcript.whisperx[192].start 6211.914
transcript.whisperx[192].end 6230.27
transcript.whisperx[192].text 把不利處分具體明文化。」那他的標準是參照勞基法文字也是跟勞基法是一致的那這個部分呢我是希望讓這個措施可以更清楚讓雙方的權益更有獲得保障所以請大家參考好還有沒有人要發言
transcript.whisperx[193].start 6237.662
transcript.whisperx[193].end 6250.127
transcript.whisperx[193].text 我覺得好像大家跟消防署的看法好像大家齁 我想現在只有兩個一個是保留等一下再回來 一個是我們兩分鐘大家趕快溝通一下好不好好不好來 紅委員
transcript.whisperx[194].start 6257.509
transcript.whisperx[194].end 6273.731
transcript.whisperx[194].text 稍微我再講一下啦因為我覺得說我們在聚焦啦那個幾位委員有提出的那個修正齁就是說在修正動議裡面包括說剛剛喬惠委員講嘛就是60天以內要書面通知其實我覺得這個這個精神跟概念我覺得是予尊重啊
transcript.whisperx[195].start 6274.229
transcript.whisperx[195].end 6296.399
transcript.whisperx[195].text 那也完整啊所以說這個我沒有反對那但是後面的部分還是牽扯到是說吹哨者的一個保護以及給予必要的一些協助的部分在勞基法74條食品安全衛生管理法水污染防治法空氣防污染防治法也都有明文規定雇主秋後算帳的一個規定嘛
transcript.whisperx[196].start 6297.259
transcript.whisperx[196].end 6316.832
transcript.whisperx[196].text 那明定舉發人的單位主管或是雇主報復的不利待遇那來去做一個相關的一個保護所以其實其他法條也有類似的立法精神就是保障吹哨者那我們知道是說既然勞基法可以食品安全衛生可以水污染可以空氣污染可以那為什麼消防法不行
transcript.whisperx[197].start 6317.994
transcript.whisperx[197].end 6325.257
transcript.whisperx[197].text 二、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[198].start 6336.016
transcript.whisperx[198].end 6361.982
transcript.whisperx[198].text 所大家追根究底的主因。」就是我們當發生火災的時候其實第一線的消防同仁他很急想要去救災但是他根本不知道說到底裡面放了什麼東西那因為不知道裡面放了什麼東西那消防弟兄又有這個使命感又有責任心所以他往前衝的情況下造成不可挽回的憾事所以我們才會希望是說透過這次的修法裡面把這樣的憾事的狀況降到底那降到底
transcript.whisperx[199].start 6363.602
transcript.whisperx[199].end 6363.802
transcript.whisperx[199].text 條文修正草案案。
transcript.whisperx[200].start 6394.483
transcript.whisperx[200].end 6420.74
transcript.whisperx[200].text 所以我這樣子講完我還是認為是說消防署或是說內政部既然身為這個消防法的一個主管機關你應該是要支持我們給你法源讓你能夠去鼓勵這些場所不要放置這些高危險的東西然後保障我們消防弟兄的安全嘛如果說這樣講完的話我真的希望因為我不知道說這樣子何不妥之有
transcript.whisperx[201].start 6421.872
transcript.whisperx[201].end 6435.471
transcript.whisperx[201].text 那其他法規都可以衛福部規範的下面的這些法規或環境部下面的法規都可以放的時候為什麼內政部沒有辦法放如果說沒有辦法確定的話我覺得就直接保留了啦
transcript.whisperx[202].start 6436.533
transcript.whisperx[202].end 6439.636
transcript.whisperx[202].text 草案案件。三、繼續審查委員黃捷等17人擬具
transcript.whisperx[203].start 6465.513
transcript.whisperx[203].end 6466.364
transcript.whisperx[203].text 怎麼部長也要說嗎?
transcript.whisperx[204].start 7502.662
transcript.whisperx[204].end 7531.966
transcript.whisperx[204].text 草案案件。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[205].start 7535.908
transcript.whisperx[205].end 7561.142
transcript.whisperx[205].text 我跟你講其實大家的方向都一樣都是要保護吹噪者那只是在這個文字上要如何去做我覺得我們有一個共同的方向就是保護吹噪這是剛剛大家溝通的一個共同的想法那文字要怎麼寫我覺得消防署跟我們各位大家想一下我們這一條
transcript.whisperx[206].start 7563.763
transcript.whisperx[206].end 7570.245
transcript.whisperx[206].text 草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[207].start 7600.267
transcript.whisperx[207].end 7603.69
transcript.whisperx[207].text 草案。主席,我們請署長講一下好不好?好,署長
transcript.whisperx[208].start 7617.87
transcript.whisperx[208].end 7638.966
transcript.whisperx[208].text 是感謝委員會而第15條之六原來消防原來的行政院的原來條文他是講說製造儲存或及處理場所這三種東西這三個場所累積的量達到30倍就算我要運用保安監督人跟執行安全管理的相關事項那國民黨團建議的這個條文是製造
transcript.whisperx[209].start 7643.689
transcript.whisperx[209].end 7668.676
transcript.whisperx[209].text 一項儲存一項或者是處理的公共無線型物品場所這三個個別達到30倍才需要做保安監督我們建議是說我們原來的條文是三種只要累計這個場所合計量達到30倍我們就需要來做這方面的安全管理我們比較嚴格原來的條文比較嚴格
transcript.whisperx[210].start 7671.388
transcript.whisperx[210].end 7678.439
transcript.whisperx[210].text 來 其他那個 署長是你說的這樣是不是現行的比我們現在要修的還更嚴格更嚴格 對對喔是
transcript.whisperx[211].start 7683.678
transcript.whisperx[211].end 7710.978
transcript.whisperx[211].text 來 各位還有沒有其他看法那是不是建議採比較嚴格的版本好對我不知道 聽聽大家那其他呢如果是一級的話應該是比較就是總共加起來只要打管制量的30倍就算了就是它的門檻比較低其實就比較容易必須要用比較嚴格的條文來強化這個危險管理那我認為應該是要嚴格比較好啦
transcript.whisperx[212].start 7717.079
transcript.whisperx[212].end 7731.075
transcript.whisperx[212].text 國民黨團的委員有沒有我覺得應該只是文字解釋不同的問題啦因為我覺得精神上應該也是吧因為製造儲存或處理
transcript.whisperx[213].start 7732.136
transcript.whisperx[213].end 7745.951
transcript.whisperx[213].text 那個消防署再說明一下好不好以你們如果事務上執行的法條的解釋會是什麼樣的方式目前這個已經現行條文已經在執行了這個工廠裡面有製造的有處理的在同一個工廠統統都會涵蓋嘛合體起來達到30天我們就算
transcript.whisperx[214].start 7749.275
transcript.whisperx[214].end 7764.123
transcript.whisperx[214].text 草案案件。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。八、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[215].start 7780.893
transcript.whisperx[215].end 7781.855
transcript.whisperx[215].text 還是消防組說明一下
transcript.whisperx[216].start 7791.775
transcript.whisperx[216].end 7817.712
transcript.whisperx[216].text 感謝委員這麼關心第16條原來各縣市消防局、港務消防隊港務消防隊是機構我們特收隊也是機構那港務消防隊跟特收隊任務屬性不太一樣就是目前的消防體系裡面就是有各縣市消防局、港務消防隊跟特收隊三個型態那港務消防隊跟特收隊是機構
transcript.whisperx[217].start 7819.033
transcript.whisperx[217].end 7834.939
transcript.whisperx[217].text 但是特收隊的任務是消防署指揮中心這邊有任務我們才會派遣他出勤所以特收隊他是沒有特別要成立指揮中心的這個需要跟任務性都是由消防署的指揮中心來派遣
transcript.whisperx[218].start 7835.399
transcript.whisperx[218].end 7853.016
transcript.whisperx[218].text 所以是不是容許就是我們原來機制就是各縣消防局一定有指揮中心那港務消防隊也有指揮中心那特授隊這個部分我們要去列可能在目前人力跟編制上面真的有它的困難性是不是容許我們原來的機制繼續讓它運作不要架構
transcript.whisperx[219].start 7861.035
transcript.whisperx[219].end 7861.295
transcript.whisperx[219].text 草案案。
transcript.whisperx[220].start 7874.912
transcript.whisperx[220].end 7878.995
transcript.whisperx[220].text 草案案件。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[221].start 7907.407
transcript.whisperx[221].end 7934.452
transcript.whisperx[221].text 好謝謝主席各位委員針對第21條之一本席這邊的特別修正動議的主要想表達的是平時相對於火災發生時平時的配置不一定是即時就是火災發生時正確的平面配置所以本席在修正動議裡面是提到要因即時修正
transcript.whisperx[222].start 7935.572
transcript.whisperx[222].end 7944.837
transcript.whisperx[222].text 二、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[223].start 7950.82
transcript.whisperx[223].end 7972.696
transcript.whisperx[223].text 與火災發生時主動調度救災所需機械協助搶救。」本席是好奇這個管理權人他有能力主動調度救災所需重機械嗎?所以這一對所以這一塊本席是等於是修正動議是建議刪除那所以大概這兩點謝謝
transcript.whisperx[224].start 7975.131
transcript.whisperx[224].end 7979.834
transcript.whisperx[224].text 二、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具、「消防法部分條文修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[225].start 7991.48
transcript.whisperx[225].end 8017.687
transcript.whisperx[225].text 增加上面兩項平常除了必須要設置它的平面圖以外而且火災發生時要專人到現場救災以外這兩個跟原版是一樣的但是我們希望增加定期上傳到中央主管機關的指定的網路平台那這個定期的跟相關的辦法由中央主管機關定定之好 謝謝然後吳清明委
transcript.whisperx[226].start 8021.334
transcript.whisperx[226].end 8038.98
transcript.whisperx[226].text 一百零八年我就有提過修法通過的消防法必須保障第一線的消防人員刪遣退避錢資訊錢還有調查錢之前發生了屏東的名陽大火造成很多我們消防人員的傷亡
transcript.whisperx[227].start 8039.74
transcript.whisperx[227].end 8041.142
transcript.whisperx[227].text 草案案。三、繼續審查委員黃捷等17人擬具
transcript.whisperx[228].start 8055.842
transcript.whisperx[228].end 8068.819
transcript.whisperx[228].text 那我現在增加的就是儲存化學品只倉庫儲存場所之管理管理全人應以下類的規定辦理謝謝黃委員
transcript.whisperx[229].start 8075.083
transcript.whisperx[229].end 8102.469
transcript.whisperx[229].text 好 那這一條其實非常重要因為是在民洋大火之後其實我們上個會期也通過公服法的修法那其實上個會期我有提案那在消防法裡面關於消防員的資訊權到底要怎麼保障我原本的內容是也有跟其實跟紅綠朝偉的意思差不多就是應該要定期更新這個相關的圖資而且應該要上傳到某一個地方是可以馬上取得最新的形式
transcript.whisperx[230].start 8103.129
transcript.whisperx[230].end 8118.017
transcript.whisperx[230].text 那當然我有看內政部給我們的意見他是說就是接下來的資訊形式會在哪裡不一定是書面或雲端那現行的條文反而更有彈性那這樣的說法我也認同只是說這個精神一定要在就是
transcript.whisperx[231].start 8120.398
transcript.whisperx[231].end 8142.011
transcript.whisperx[231].text 這個資訊一定要放在某個地方而且是最新的讓消防員資訊詮釋獲得最完整的保障我相信這個意旨一定要放進去所以我希望到時候的文字即便沒有明確的寫說雲端或是書面那你至少這樣相關的文字要保留以上建議 謝謝好 還有沒有委員那消防組說一下
transcript.whisperx[232].start 8143.072
transcript.whisperx[232].end 8171.578
transcript.whisperx[232].text 感謝委員對第15條21條之一的關心事實上資訊的取得也是部長上任以後特別交代要怎麼整合資訊所以在後續的建設裡面我們指揮中心依舊指揮中心的系統裡面的整合這個整合包括建築物的資訊就國土署的資訊建築資訊還有化學雲那化學雲資訊就像剛剛黃委員所提到化學雲資訊目前已經有各部會的資訊的結合
transcript.whisperx[233].start 8173.338
transcript.whisperx[233].end 8201.669
transcript.whisperx[233].text 公務法要求多久更新?環境部、勞動部等部會分別針對所列管場所的危險物品上管更新也有一定的頻次。這些資訊完全都是在化學雲的雲端,所以剛才委員所關心的資訊取得區塊目前正在操作運作,而且陸續在實務上的操作也呈現出來。
transcript.whisperx[234].start 8202.389
transcript.whisperx[234].end 8203.369
transcript.whisperx[234].text 草案案件事宜提供。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[235].start 8222.757
transcript.whisperx[235].end 8231.485
transcript.whisperx[235].text 草案案件事宜提供。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[236].start 8250.422
transcript.whisperx[236].end 8253.666
transcript.whisperx[236].text 草案案件。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具、「消防法部分條文修正草案案件。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[237].start 8265.658
transcript.whisperx[237].end 8270.961
transcript.whisperx[237].text 草案案件事宜和消防法部分條文修正草案案件事宜和消防法部分條文修正草案案件事宜和消防法部分條文修正
transcript.whisperx[238].start 8290.612
transcript.whisperx[238].end 8308.495
transcript.whisperx[238].text 稍微我再補充一下剛剛各位委員還有包括我們有看到所提案的一共大概17項的提案針對21條之一大家都有非常慎重的討論所以我們把各位委員所關心的部分把它綜合成一個書面上的部分讓大家來參考一下
transcript.whisperx[239].start 8309.936
transcript.whisperx[239].end 8335.885
transcript.whisperx[239].text 我們的國會組應該有發給各位委員的手上我跟大家唸一下就是第21條之一把工廠與儲存一定規模以上化學品之倉庫實驗室及儲存場所之管理權人應依下列規定辦理一、平時配置化學品種類數量位置平面配置圖及搶救必要資訊並於火災發生時立即提供消防指揮人員該等資訊
transcript.whisperx[240].start 8337.245
transcript.whisperx[240].end 8340.471
transcript.whisperx[240].text 二、火災發生時只派專人至現場協助救災。
transcript.whisperx[241].start 8342.15
transcript.whisperx[241].end 8367.327
transcript.whisperx[241].text 前項一定規模以上化學品質倉庫實驗室及儲存場所由中央主管機關匯商目的事業主管機關公告之。那跟各位委員在補充報告就是說我們把那個包括那個劉委員提到桃園的這個狀況尤其是倉庫的部分把它放在這一條裡面但是倉庫的主管機關不一定是只有消防署還有包括經濟部
transcript.whisperx[242].start 8368.388
transcript.whisperx[242].end 8383.684
transcript.whisperx[242].text 那實驗室的部分的話呢也有一些委員關心尤其是大學的實驗室包括說我們認為像中科院或是公研院或是中研院也有那這一部分的主管機關在教育部所以我們把它放到裡面去一起放進去來主管
transcript.whisperx[243].start 8384.324
transcript.whisperx[243].end 8387.605
transcript.whisperx[243].text 案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[244].start 8408.713
transcript.whisperx[244].end 8419.16
transcript.whisperx[244].text 還有儲存場所包括跟其他相關的儲存種類有關的這個主管機關一起來匯商,把它全部包含進去在我們的這一條裡面,那提供給大家參考以上。
transcript.whisperx[245].start 8422.666
transcript.whisperx[245].end 8439.845
transcript.whisperx[245].text 謝謝主席喔我想內政部可能有誤解一下本席的意思啦如果早上有聽提案說明的話應該很清楚啦就我們講這個會有這樣的起心動念第一個要美孚倉儲嘛對不對第二個叫家樂福大火請問按照你現在內政部提出來的版本家樂福倉儲跟美孚倉儲他是存放化學物品之倉庫嗎不是吧
transcript.whisperx[246].start 8442.228
transcript.whisperx[246].end 8442.348
transcript.whisperx[246].text 草案事項》案。
transcript.whisperx[247].start 8459.64
transcript.whisperx[247].end 8470.329
transcript.whisperx[247].text 還有一定規模以上的大型倉儲你應該也要逐步來列入消防法的守備範圍裡面那我同意部長剛剛講就是說公服法要做一些規範當然要嘛當初總諮詢的時候你也講是雙軌並進嘛所以在這裡的時候我們是不是講說要把所謂叫一定規模以上的倉庫啦
transcript.whisperx[248].start 8476.474
transcript.whisperx[248].end 8477.494
transcript.whisperx[248].text 草案案件。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[249].start 8505.566
transcript.whisperx[249].end 8506.149
transcript.whisperx[249].text 實驗室及儲存場所
transcript.whisperx[250].start 8512.537
transcript.whisperx[250].end 8541.346
transcript.whisperx[250].text 不是啊,你現在寫的就是一定規模以上的話,我要把一定,我現在講的不是存放化學品的倉庫啦,是一般易燃物的倉庫你要再管嘛。是的,你先看一下,儲存化學品之倉庫頓號,實驗室及儲存場所,不是儲存化學品的儲存場所,你再看一下。儲存場所就是你說的啦。儲存場所就是你說的啦。不是不是不是。家樂福就是儲存場所啦。沒有吧,不不不,這個誤會大了,等一下。
transcript.whisperx[251].start 8543.805
transcript.whisperx[251].end 8552.561
transcript.whisperx[251].text 來來來等一下我我不好意思喔各位欸許瑋你要我我的還我還沒發言他他找的時候我可以發言嗎
transcript.whisperx[252].start 8554.107
transcript.whisperx[252].end 8582.167
transcript.whisperx[252].text 草案案案件。這個麻煩部長還有署長剛剛本席提的修正動議可能你們沒有聽懂在這個第一項我們特別強調平時備制化學品種類數量位置平面配置圖及搶救必要資訊後面要加病因及時修正其實意思就是隨時更新因為你平時配置的
transcript.whisperx[253].start 8582.927
transcript.whisperx[253].end 8607.632
transcript.whisperx[253].text 可能你一開始你有這樣的一個資訊但如果沒有寫即時更新或是併應即時修正這段話的話你可能到火災的時候提供這個它不會是現場最新的本席的意思是這樣所以是不是可以看文字你們覺得要怎麼樣本席建議的是應即時修正或是你寫應隨時更新
transcript.whisperx[254].start 8612.293
transcript.whisperx[254].end 8630.794
transcript.whisperx[254].text 而不是一開始的那個後面都有變化都沒更新不行這一塊我特別強調各位委員我覺得啦這21條之一大家的看法其實我也都認同我覺得我們這一條
transcript.whisperx[255].start 8632.421
transcript.whisperx[255].end 8653.599
transcript.whisperx[255].text 你這個消防署你剛剛的這一個阿齁其實大家都還不大能夠圓滿接受啦齁我跟你講你們你們再去修改一下齁阿跟大家溝通一下不然我們在這邊浪費太多時間了齁這一條你們趕快去處理然後呢我們現在趕快繞一道21條之二好不好好
transcript.whisperx[256].start 8664.137
transcript.whisperx[256].end 8690.044
transcript.whisperx[256].text 來,21條之二各位有沒有什麼意見沒有意見我們就照院板通過好,那我們現在第三章之一張明
transcript.whisperx[257].start 8692.405
transcript.whisperx[257].end 8710.139
transcript.whisperx[257].text 這個大家有沒有什麼意見啊?應該沒有吧?我們是照行政院提案張明通過啦好不好?那再來25條之一來,各位委員來,徐委員針對第25條之一本席有幾項修正動議
transcript.whisperx[258].start 8721.911
transcript.whisperx[258].end 8744.027
transcript.whisperx[258].text 這個有關諮詢委員任一性別比例不得少於三分之一這個沒有意見但後面消防機關代表消防機關代表還有各級消防機關限職非主管人員為限那這個諮詢會的委員
transcript.whisperx[259].start 8747.5
transcript.whisperx[259].end 8774.315
transcript.whisperx[259].text 草案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具、「消防法部分條文修正草案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具、「消防法部分條文修正草案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具、「消防法部分條文修正草案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具、「消防法部分條文修正草案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具、「消防法部分條文修正草案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具、「消防法部分條文修正草案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具、「消防
transcript.whisperx[260].start 8777.213
transcript.whisperx[260].end 8796.121
transcript.whisperx[260].text 因為第一線的因為你既然是諮詢會嘛諮詢會你應該是但剛剛也有人來溝通說一定要主管機關的一定要主管那如果主管這就很好笑比如說我消防署我或消防局
transcript.whisperx[261].start 8797.281
transcript.whisperx[261].end 8825.295
transcript.whisperx[261].text 我諮詢會又是我自己又去當諮詢會委員那我自己諮詢提供諮詢給我自己那你應該是要找其他人嘛你諮詢會你要的是一些諮詢的意見而且應該他是一個參考意見所以這個部分本席修正以限職非主管人員為限好 來消防組說明一下
transcript.whisperx[262].start 8827.847
transcript.whisperx[262].end 8851.568
transcript.whisperx[262].text 我還沒講完不好意思還有就是說在我們這個法條裡我們看到有的地方寫植物安全衛生政策有的地方就寫安全衛生就是說植物安全衛生跟安全衛生有植物跟沒植物因為你要不要統一一下那個用詞這第二點這個本席的意見好謝謝
transcript.whisperx[263].start 8860.376
transcript.whisperx[263].end 8888.455
transcript.whisperx[263].text 感謝委員槌尋第一個部分跟委員回報就是這個諮詢會是中央主管機關要成立的諮詢會那諮詢會的成立我們在第5點第4項諮詢會的組成任務委員會的資格條件臨片方法其他注意事項由中央主管機關定制是不是容許就是說跟委員所關注的要繼承代表會主管這個人員是不是從我們這個地方來處理
transcript.whisperx[264].start 8889.676
transcript.whisperx[264].end 8891.837
transcript.whisperx[264].text 草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案 條文修正草案
transcript.whisperx[265].start 8909.271
transcript.whisperx[265].end 8925.924
transcript.whisperx[265].text 所以你們的意思就是說一定要有主管就對了不一定要主管就是人選我們從這個資格條件這個地方來處理我們因為諮詢會怎麼組成在第4項裡面我們要由中央主管機關訂資嘛
transcript.whisperx[266].start 8927.725
transcript.whisperx[266].end 8928.306
transcript.whisperx[266].text 案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[267].start 8953.147
transcript.whisperx[267].end 8975.053
transcript.whisperx[267].text 我們要看他有沒有這個認知跟能力因為主管人員進去我覺得很好笑就是我們消防署要有一個諮詢會諮詢的人又是我們自己行政機關的主管去那等於我自己去成立諮詢會再提供諮詢給我本席對這個的意見是看到這個了解委員的意見
transcript.whisperx[268].start 8976.693
transcript.whisperx[268].end 9003.572
transcript.whisperx[268].text 主席再來就是因為剛剛有特別提到公務人員協會代表本席是不是特別提一下因為現在並沒有公務人員協會代表有已經有了現在已經有了已經有了對各縣市都有好幾個縣市都有了那有很多沒有吧至少8個以上的縣市已經成立了對你看所以在這邊我順便講地方政府對你公務人員協會代表
transcript.whisperx[269].start 9004.673
transcript.whisperx[269].end 9029.911
transcript.whisperx[269].text 我們署長說8個以上那我們有20個縣市你8個以上一定還有一些沒有嘛所以本席在這裡不好意思我本席特別先講這個有關實施的施行的這個不好意思再47條我有特別講自公佈日後6個月內施行就是針對你沒有公務人員協會沒有這個協會那你法條通過以後
transcript.whisperx[270].start 9034.634
transcript.whisperx[270].end 9056.756
transcript.whisperx[270].text 那你沒有這個協會你至少還要有時間給他去去成立或者是去運作好所以因為你剛剛特別提到公務員協會所以我在這邊也特別提好就這樣當然到47條的時候我們還會還會再討論就是我在47條加上說你延後就是6個月內施行啊
transcript.whisperx[271].start 9058.956
transcript.whisperx[271].end 9062.202
transcript.whisperx[271].text 就是因為你現在還是有很多沒有公務人員協會沒有這個協會阿
transcript.whisperx[272].start 9072.241
transcript.whisperx[272].end 9097.012
transcript.whisperx[272].text 委員提醒的非主管主管這個我們就是在我答應委員就是說在訂定這個管理辦法的時候我們來注意這個區塊的組成那中央的諮詢會這人數絕對不會全國都有人數是有限制本席請教一下我們內政部有沒有公務人員協會我們消防署有沒有公務人員協會
transcript.whisperx[273].start 9098.427
transcript.whisperx[273].end 9122.352
transcript.whisperx[273].text 那如果內政部消防署都沒有公務人員協會那你要怎麼產生?中華民國公務人員協會這已經成立了台北新北我看是不是保訓會這邊你這個公務人員協會指的是中方的還是中央的?是不是部長說誰因為署長他們比較清楚我們協會到底有多少幾個協會
transcript.whisperx[274].start 9127.461
transcript.whisperx[274].end 9140.399
transcript.whisperx[274].text 公務人員保障協會共結感冒主席報告委員我們中國協會目前中央已經成立20個然後地方的話有成立15個那已經有成立全國公務人員協會了
transcript.whisperx[275].start 9141.693
transcript.whisperx[275].end 9143.334
transcript.whisperx[275].text 條文修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[276].start 9158.749
transcript.whisperx[276].end 9159.45
transcript.whisperx[276].text 公務人員協會代表
transcript.whisperx[277].start 9179.989
transcript.whisperx[277].end 9203.844
transcript.whisperx[277].text 就不一定是消防相關的公務人員協會了沒有,如果是地方他有成立一個縣市公務人協會那縣市公務人協會是他們所屬的各縣市政府的那個公務人員都可以參加那一定也包含消防人員對,地方的是這樣那我剛剛是問中央你內政部跟消防署沒有公務人員協會啊對,目前內政部還沒成立消防署也沒有吧
transcript.whisperx[278].start 9204.548
transcript.whisperx[278].end 9222.399
transcript.whisperx[278].text 我們就有部會成績目前是後面是會扣除所以這邊公務人員協會代表到底是你就是反正地方的也可以中央的也可以的意思那就看他們當初那個諮詢會的組成規定是怎麼樣我現在就在談諮詢會因為這文字這樣寫在這裡嘛
transcript.whisperx[279].start 9229.576
transcript.whisperx[279].end 9245.728
transcript.whisperx[279].text 徐委員的意思是現在很多還沒有那他的代表如何產生但未來應該各縣市各種會慢慢都會成立啦你們講的是這個所以如果都會慢慢成立其實在法律對他們要保障我認為也是好的
transcript.whisperx[280].start 9245.828
transcript.whisperx[280].end 9246.889
transcript.whisperx[280].text 草案案件。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[281].start 9276.087
transcript.whisperx[281].end 9303.49
transcript.whisperx[281].text 一般的公務人員有機關的公務人員但也有消防公務人員那可是我們現在在討論的是消防人員職業安全衛生諮詢會他還是定義在消防人員所以我覺得比較我們大家都要把一次修好一點而且也比較不會有疑慮或說其他的一個旁支我認為是說是不是公務人員協會的這一個代表部分把他給寫清楚他是消防消防公務人員
transcript.whisperx[282].start 9304.531
transcript.whisperx[282].end 9308.818
transcript.whisperx[282].text 那這樣子其實避免這個爭議嘛因為你後面院版25條之一
transcript.whisperx[283].start 9311.011
transcript.whisperx[283].end 9336.621
transcript.whisperx[283].text 組成任務委員資格條件由中央主管機關定之。」你還是中央主管定之嘛那我相信你們的一個定之的方向也一定是希望公務人員協會朝消防人員來嘛那如果說這樣的話我們就是在25條之1的法源裡面我們就把它寫清楚因為這對應什麼對應25條之3本席有提案我們25條之3裡面就有要求是說要有基層消防人員所以其實現在討論的東西就是
transcript.whisperx[284].start 9338.502
transcript.whisperx[284].end 9340.463
transcript.whisperx[284].text 條文修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[285].start 9360.373
transcript.whisperx[285].end 9361.634
transcript.whisperx[285].text 草案案件事務委員委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會
transcript.whisperx[286].start 9392.78
transcript.whisperx[286].end 9413.589
transcript.whisperx[286].text 25條之二,大家有沒有意見?條文我看都是一樣的啦,好不好?那我們就照...照行政院版通過好不好?來,25條之三25條之三好像...
transcript.whisperx[287].start 9420.1
transcript.whisperx[287].end 9448.49
transcript.whisperx[287].text 沒有什麼差別好不好?我們就照院版通過啦好不好?那個...哈?怎樣?誰?什麼?性別的部分這個25條之3我肯定我先肯定是說這個院版的版本裡面有寫說至少一人為消防基層人員啦代表這個基層人員的心聲一定要聽到啦那一樣就是說我這邊有在提出的版本是說要求任意性別平等不得低於三分之一啦
transcript.whisperx[288].start 9449.17
transcript.whisperx[288].end 9452.093
transcript.whisperx[288].text 消防法部分條文修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員黃捷等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[289].start 9464.187
transcript.whisperx[289].end 9469.79
transcript.whisperx[289].text 條文修正草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[290].start 9489.599
transcript.whisperx[290].end 9490.119
transcript.whisperx[290].text 案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[291].start 9508.652
transcript.whisperx[291].end 9523.482
transcript.whisperx[291].text 我的主張啊,因為我覺得你在現場的,這種你如果納進去後面的問題會很大的喔,是不是大家考慮一下,我主張不要納進去。
transcript.whisperx[292].start 9526.946
transcript.whisperx[292].end 9545.363
transcript.whisperx[292].text 李委員原則上我對國民黨這個提案對於性別提出來不是表示肯定但是聽到剛剛消防署有講到現在消防署的人力的比例是9比1男女性別比例是9比1那這一方面是不是大家協調斟酌一下
transcript.whisperx[293].start 9562.448
transcript.whisperx[293].end 9587.908
transcript.whisperx[293].text 因為這個小組是基層要組成的是沒錯對基層要成立的這個跟剛剛我們有委員提到什麼輪班那是完全不一樣啊這是小組嘛也是要讓這個消防員這邊提出小組然後來討論相關的一個事宜嘛縣是第一縣同仁是沒有錯所以說署長你剛剛有提到一個就是說因為現在的比例相對來講是91嘛是不是所以說才會有人也會
transcript.whisperx[294].start 9588.829
transcript.whisperx[294].end 9589.67
transcript.whisperx[294].text 條文修正草案案。
transcript.whisperx[295].start 9618.829
transcript.whisperx[295].end 9639.091
transcript.whisperx[295].text 按照公務人員安全及衛生防護辦法四條一項規定各機關指定適當人員並得聘請相關專家學者組成安全及衛生防護小組所以說考量消防署在現實上執行當然理想狀態百分之百是基層而且有外勤經驗的人員這當然是最好的狀況但是有沒有機會來做一下平衡也就是說在部分裡面
transcript.whisperx[296].start 9640.612
transcript.whisperx[296].end 9655.705
transcript.whisperx[296].text 這個其實是政府機關的裁量權限也就是說用外部的學者專家提供點不同的意見那這個相對來講你要找女性的成員就相對來講就比較容易所以是不是用這樣的方式來做處理因為你自己本來院版的條文都只有寫只有一人為消防基層人員
transcript.whisperx[297].start 9656.766
transcript.whisperx[297].end 9657.306
transcript.whisperx[297].text 草案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[298].start 9675.293
transcript.whisperx[298].end 9678.097
transcript.whisperx[298].text 任意性別必須受到保障。
transcript.whisperx[299].start 9691.395
transcript.whisperx[299].end 9706.471
transcript.whisperx[299].text 署長我們如果就是性別單一性別需受保護我們不要訂三分之一啦這樣就是有保障女性嘛不然你女性三分之一全部都人都在那裡了
transcript.whisperx[300].start 9707.768
transcript.whisperx[300].end 9732.142
transcript.whisperx[300].text 來徐瑋本席這邊針對25條之3這個消防基層比例人員至少一個太少是不是可以比例不得低於五分之一這樣可以嗎因為你至少有一位很奇怪你是不是不得低於至少五分之一是消防基層人員這是本席提案的修正動議謝謝
transcript.whisperx[301].start 9735.407
transcript.whisperx[301].end 9754.506
transcript.whisperx[301].text 感謝委員,如果說是用這個角度來處理,我們可能會比較有空間,不要說用單一性別,就是基層同仁一定要……這是兩件事,對性別有意見的委員,等於這可以討論,跟他們來溝通,粉席是針對基層的消防委員。
transcript.whisperx[302].start 9757.329
transcript.whisperx[302].end 9765.112
transcript.whisperx[302].text 還是回答你而已,這回答你的啦。主席,現在這沒感覺啦,剛才那個三分之一先下去處理啦。是不是可以...因為當然我們是要補充路線的,但是你說你如果寒暄三分之一是不是你有困難度還是什麼,你說清楚怎麼去補充這裡的路線啊。
transcript.whisperx[303].start 9785.871
transcript.whisperx[303].end 9789.994
transcript.whisperx[303].text 審查委員長蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、繼續審查委員長蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[304].start 9811.104
transcript.whisperx[304].end 9813.646
transcript.whisperx[304].text 草案案件 。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[305].start 9835.282
transcript.whisperx[305].end 9844.426
transcript.whisperx[305].text 草案案件事宜提出。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[306].start 9863.234
transcript.whisperx[306].end 9887.675
transcript.whisperx[306].text 目前的計劃從明年開始執行目前我們正在處理這個區塊讓職業安全、國外的經驗制度演進到我們體系裡面來那這個對消防體系來講也是在學習所以怎麼樣把這個體系能夠做得好、建置得好讓它走得下去不要怕到因為我們之前有事辦就縣市就認為說我們要求太多反正是怕到的這是我們困難點謝謝主席
transcript.whisperx[307].start 9891.311
transcript.whisperx[307].end 9908.894
transcript.whisperx[307].text 就針對這個任意性別比例不得低於三分之一本席想請教現在這應該包含所有消防機關相關的公務人員吧並不是指第一線的吧對對對對就是消防局嘛其實消防局應該有很多
transcript.whisperx[308].start 9909.835
transcript.whisperx[308].end 9917.443
transcript.whisperx[308].text 也應該有不少女性的公務人員或者是相關人員,所以並不是指第一線的消防員。
transcript.whisperx[309].start 9927.033
transcript.whisperx[309].end 9954.373
transcript.whisperx[309].text 有主計人士當然會有,但是主計人士這些對我們的安全防護是不是能夠真的提供我們外勤需要的安全防護的角度,這是我們考慮的地方。就是一定要委員部說這個定下去後要能夠真的要去讓對他們是有幫助的,那同仁才會接受到這樣的想法跟建議,這是我們目前操作以後討論過以後大概有這樣的一個困境的問題。因為性別三分之一,
transcript.whisperx[310].start 9955.414
transcript.whisperx[310].end 9972.46
transcript.whisperx[310].text 他雖然第一線的經驗可能沒有但他可能可以反映很多相關的意見所以這一塊我的意思是說你也可以這樣思考最後這個比例當然以修法的提案的委員跟您這邊協調只是
transcript.whisperx[311].start 9974.505
transcript.whisperx[311].end 9998.895
transcript.whisperx[311].text 你公務單位三分之一女性現在我覺得各個單位女性其實都不少委員如果允許的話我們就是在立法說明裡面先不要列在條文裡面立法說明就是說我們朝向單一性別比率的方式達到三分之一這個方式不要強制去要求讓他縣市在執行上面有他的談刑來來來
transcript.whisperx[312].start 10000.576
transcript.whisperx[312].end 10026.922
transcript.whisperx[312].text 我覺得大家說的都有道理啦我還是強調啦這個是很重要的法案我們也不要輕率去去把它決定好不好我們還是溝通啦好不好我們往下走好不好不然我們條文太多了好不好來那我們25條之四來各位看起來
transcript.whisperx[313].start 10029.841
transcript.whisperx[313].end 10057.12
transcript.whisperx[313].text 看起來都差不多,各位有沒有意見?沒有,那就照院辦通過。來,25條之五。好像也都差不多。主席沒有意見。好像也都差不多。好吧,那就照院辦通過。25條之六。他人又不炸了。
transcript.whisperx[314].start 10063.417
transcript.whisperx[314].end 10071.243
transcript.whisperx[314].text 來25條之6也是差不多啦好那我們是不是照原本通過來25條之7蛤
transcript.whisperx[315].start 10075.543
transcript.whisperx[315].end 10104.084
transcript.whisperx[315].text 那個好像過去如果大家都一致的是不是主席可以才是照案通過而不是才是照行政院版通過因為如果大家都一樣表示大家提案的沒有啦我們這邊我們內政委員會都是照這樣都是講照行政院版我沒有自己發明的你可以去查我沒有但是奇怪過去我們是照案通過不不不不一樣不一樣不一樣不一樣不一樣
transcript.whisperx[316].start 10105.25
transcript.whisperx[316].end 10108.312
transcript.whisperx[316].text 來我們25條之七各位有沒有意見沒有齁那就照原本通過來25條之八黃委員好這個剛剛其實消防署有來跟我溝通過了那也會把我的建議採納進去嗎是這樣子嗎
transcript.whisperx[317].start 10133.874
transcript.whisperx[317].end 10141.112
transcript.whisperx[317].text 那還是說你們有新的文字嗎還是說就照現在你們現在的文字如果有的話是不是請消防署再補充說明一下
transcript.whisperx[318].start 10142.219
transcript.whisperx[318].end 10165.648
transcript.whisperx[318].text 是很感謝委員這個條文我們委員都很關心女性黃捷委員還有好幾位委員都特別對女性前面也講到女性通證的關心那我們是嘗試這個條文是用這樣的方式來處理就是我報告一下什麼嘗試報告一下第25條是把各級消防機關應考量消防人員性別
transcript.whisperx[319].start 10166.488
transcript.whisperx[319].end 10181.038
transcript.whisperx[319].text 草案00身心狀況等因素這特殊需要提供適當之環境安全衛生防護設備及措施。這是第一項。第二項就是各級消防機關對於女性認成中
transcript.whisperx[320].start 10181.758
transcript.whisperx[320].end 10198.765
transcript.whisperx[320].text 或分娩後未滿兩年是消防人員,屬應提供適當之環境安全衛生防護設備及措施外,並應依醫師適性評估建議,採取勤務調整或必要之
transcript.whisperx[321].start 10199.565
transcript.whisperx[321].end 10203.327
transcript.whisperx[321].text 草案 健康保護措施 。」主席是不是文字印的讓大家看看
transcript.whisperx[322].start 10222.978
transcript.whisperx[322].end 10224.26
transcript.whisperx[322].text 草案案件。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[323].start 10238.249
transcript.whisperx[323].end 10257.854
transcript.whisperx[323].text 草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具、「消防法部分條文修正草案案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[324].start 10270.172
transcript.whisperx[324].end 10274.793
transcript.whisperx[324].text 草案案件事宜提供
transcript.whisperx[325].start 10289.696
transcript.whisperx[325].end 10292.34
transcript.whisperx[325].text 草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[326].start 10307.703
transcript.whisperx[326].end 10322.975
transcript.whisperx[326].text 案。二、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具 «消防法部分條文修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[327].start 10339.723
transcript.whisperx[327].end 10355.607
transcript.whisperx[327].text 應該都差不多了齁,來,好,那我們照行政院通過來,那我們25條之10這個范雲委員嘛范雲委員沒有,他人不在現場,我們就不予討論了好不好來,我們27條我們27條之1
transcript.whisperx[328].start 10364.491
transcript.whisperx[328].end 10367.936
transcript.whisperx[328].text 草案案。二、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[329].start 10384.315
transcript.whisperx[329].end 10389.637
transcript.whisperx[329].text 二十七條之一,院版沒有修正,這是現行條文,但是我們看到是說從2019年通過災害事故調查委員會,調查會那就是要針對這個傷亡的調查
transcript.whisperx[330].start 10401.562
transcript.whisperx[330].end 10419.961
transcript.whisperx[330].text 那因為目前在於是說只有災害搶救的死亡或重傷事故才起調查但其實消防人員的情誤包羅萬象啊不只是有災害搶救還有緊急救護消防安全火災調查以及預防等等相關所以說本期才會把
transcript.whisperx[331].start 10421.408
transcript.whisperx[331].end 10439.221
transcript.whisperx[331].text 其他情務不只是災害搶救只要應該是說我們如果說消防弟兄在出勤的執勤公務的時候執勤勤務的時候而導致發生死亡重傷或者是暫時全失能的事故應該要啟動這個相關的調查會那其實這都是捕獲網啦
transcript.whisperx[332].start 10440.422
transcript.whisperx[332].end 10456.361
transcript.whisperx[332].text 所以我想大家就一起支持因為我們都不希望這些事情發生其實這個事情我們都不希望發生不希望有死亡不希望有重傷不希望有戰時全失能但如果說真的有這樣的狀況的話把他含瓜再進去好不好以上謝謝來消防署
transcript.whisperx[333].start 10460.011
transcript.whisperx[333].end 10474.983
transcript.whisperx[333].text 很感謝委員關心而事故的經驗跟教訓跟累積這是我們現在重視的重點也就是消防治安的重點為什麼會發生事情每一件發生事情我們一定會進入了解跟調查跟檢討
transcript.whisperx[334].start 10476.124
transcript.whisperx[334].end 10491.972
transcript.whisperx[334].text 所以包括目前發生的near miss包括輕傷包括住院重傷訓練死亡或者是救災罹難這些都是在現況裡面我們訂定一個消防機關事故調查分級分層機制的實行計畫
transcript.whisperx[335].start 10494.633
transcript.whisperx[335].end 10497.615
transcript.whisperx[335].text 條文修正草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[336].start 10514.608
transcript.whisperx[336].end 10537.365
transcript.whisperx[336].text 所以原來只有中央主管機關調查這樣的精神那我們院裡面部裡面也參考委員的一個意見嘗試你出說從中央也要成立這樣的一個調查機制縣市不是說發生事情都是中央的事情縣市也要成立調查機制
transcript.whisperx[337].start 10537.825
transcript.whisperx[337].end 10552.723
transcript.whisperx[337].text 也就是把我們分級分成四個機制的這種想法融入後續的包括治安的推動的這個精神納入後續的一個經驗累積那這些經驗累積就是每一年委員會這邊有要求我們要成
transcript.whisperx[338].start 10554.125
transcript.whisperx[338].end 10562.069
transcript.whisperx[338].text 草案案件簽署。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[339].start 10579.377
transcript.whisperx[339].end 10580.938
transcript.whisperx[339].text 草案案件的重大處理。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[340].start 10598.171
transcript.whisperx[340].end 10603.653
transcript.whisperx[340].text 草案案件。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案案件。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[341].start 10620.299
transcript.whisperx[341].end 10623.34
transcript.whisperx[341].text 案。二、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[342].start 10645.505
transcript.whisperx[342].end 10661.028
transcript.whisperx[342].text 不不不部長您先請坐我跟你講這個署長我們來立法院其實也很久了立法院我們在審條文在審什麼的立法院的格式
transcript.whisperx[343].start 10662.196
transcript.whisperx[343].end 10689.732
transcript.whisperx[343].text 我們的消防署竟然都還不知道嗎?你們給我們的格式是不對的捏所以我覺得這個我們先不討論這立法院我們還是有立法院的尊嚴在我覺得你們去把它更改好你們的修正我們才來討論好不好來我們先各位委員不好意思我們這個就先這樣好不好那我們先往28條走好不好
transcript.whisperx[344].start 10695.924
transcript.whisperx[344].end 10711.348
transcript.whisperx[344].text 來,王委員主席,我有修正動議,來賓這條本身是覺得要維護既消泡溫下地的管理,我覺得這要明目規定在既消來賓適用於25條紀律及
transcript.whisperx[345].start 10715.885
transcript.whisperx[345].end 10722.671
transcript.whisperx[345].text 草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具、「消防法部分條文修正草案案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[346].start 10738.7
transcript.whisperx[346].end 10762.707
transcript.whisperx[346].text 二、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[347].start 10763.379
transcript.whisperx[347].end 10784.88
transcript.whisperx[347].text 草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。八、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[348].start 10787.645
transcript.whisperx[348].end 10801.993
transcript.whisperx[348].text 感謝委員我們在草案這個領略這個條文的時候一開始是針對主要針對消防經驗在開會過程當中疫消而且別提醒疫消也是我們救災經驗所以在裡面的條文裡面就是
transcript.whisperx[349].start 10803.314
transcript.whisperx[349].end 10804.554
transcript.whisperx[349].text 案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[350].start 10824.6
transcript.whisperx[350].end 10829.125
transcript.whisperx[350].text 草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[351].start 10850.09
transcript.whisperx[351].end 10879.234
transcript.whisperx[351].text 這個部分我們是用德來做這方面的處理就是因為這邊的經費還是由地方政府來處理這個區塊我們讓這個機制讓它能夠運作的下去在條文裡面來做處理當然中央的經費我們可以來補助的地方我們用消防法的精神來做補助那同樣地方政府他應該也要有這方面的精神來做處理所以這個是中央地方共同要來處理的地方
transcript.whisperx[352].start 10879.654
transcript.whisperx[352].end 10893.488
transcript.whisperx[352].text 那這個條文主要的內容跟想法可能很多部分是要地方政府來處理的地方那我們很支持很贊同對異消同仁的一個保障跟確保那這個部分不能由中央來處理嗎
transcript.whisperx[353].start 10897.731
transcript.whisperx[353].end 10916.469
transcript.whisperx[353].text 因為我們現在都是我們通過然後讓地方買單其實這個地方的財政現在相對的困難所以我們是用德的方式來處理就一步一步來啦就是地方政府像有些地方政府他的財政狀況比較理想的狀況他對於印銷的保障就比較多一點
transcript.whisperx[354].start 10917.369
transcript.whisperx[354].end 10933.201
transcript.whisperx[354].text 財政狀況好的我相信他們對預銷的保障本來就多了啦現在當然是只針對財政狀況不好他們可能就是沒有那樣的經費才需要中央的幫忙所以這個部分是不是可以納入跟消防人員同等的這個好不好我們再來就中央的預算
transcript.whisperx[355].start 10934.002
transcript.whisperx[355].end 10936.183
transcript.whisperx[355].text 草案案件事宜提出。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[356].start 10963.256
transcript.whisperx[356].end 10964.838
transcript.whisperx[356].text 草案的修正要怎麼處理?
transcript.whisperx[357].start 10982.726
transcript.whisperx[357].end 10998.143
transcript.whisperx[357].text 主席、署長、各位委員大家好針對第28條第2項本席28條第3項本席是支持就是讓我們所有疫消的人員他的福利保障更多更安全防護可是我本席針對第28條第1項
transcript.whisperx[358].start 11001.667
transcript.whisperx[358].end 11028.185
transcript.whisperx[358].text 他有新增文字是其他相關事項本席認為這個這個東西因為因為義消他們都是處於這個義務性的而且是處於就是對這個社會有愛心想要幫助警消的同仁的服務去做一些救災的工作所以我認為他所所有的這個服務的項目應該明定清楚不應該增加這個叫做其其其其他相關事項因為沒有明定所以我是不是先請教署長何謂
transcript.whisperx[359].start 11029.406
transcript.whisperx[359].end 11054.281
transcript.whisperx[359].text 及其他相關事項。」就是過去這些文字我相信訂的非常的明確何謂是及其他相關事項我相信要讓所有逸霄的好朋友知道說未來增加這些文字以後他們有沒有需要付出相關的什麼義務還有就是為什麼之前不修現在要修這一條是不是過去逸霄的工作有遇到相關的困難
transcript.whisperx[360].start 11056.062
transcript.whisperx[360].end 11072.927
transcript.whisperx[360].text 當然最近大家常討論賴清德總統的全社會防衛任性的這個東西我也想請署長報告一下是不是跟賴清德總統的全社會防衛任性有關所以你們才修增加這樣的文字以上請回答
transcript.whisperx[361].start 11073.78
transcript.whisperx[361].end 11079.282
transcript.whisperx[361].text 草案案件。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[362].start 11101.032
transcript.whisperx[362].end 11125.63
transcript.whisperx[362].text 副宣的出勤、他去扶勤、出勤或其他勤務在路上出狀況這些都是我們在原來可能沒有在這個管理辦法裡面所列到的所以我們把這些可能之前上面出的狀況的一些保障能夠在這個地方列進去這是首先跟委員報告那這樣的列進去以後相對於對異消人員的訓練、裝備、器材
transcript.whisperx[363].start 11129.292
transcript.whisperx[363].end 11158.226
transcript.whisperx[363].text 草案案件相對我們也做這方面的檢討跟調整當然中央政府有做檢討調整以後地方政府他也對於他縣市所所服勤的疫消人員因為我們現在疫消人員不是傳統的打火疫消可能無人機的操作可能山域的救援、水域的救援都是在目前的疫消的廣義的疫消人員的一個服勤裡面甚至我們連後勤的疫消也是我們目前在
transcript.whisperx[364].start 11158.746
transcript.whisperx[364].end 11161.127
transcript.whisperx[364].text 草案案件事宜提供。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[365].start 11191.236
transcript.whisperx[365].end 11208.335
transcript.whisperx[365].text 不好意思署長你解釋的很詳細可是我本席聽不太懂就是說過去的文字跟你現在剛講的文字的服務範圍本席認為是一樣的所以是不是有沒有增加這樣的文字的必要我覺得是打一個問號那我還剛有請教一個問題是比較這個當然是比較
transcript.whisperx[366].start 11213.08
transcript.whisperx[366].end 11215.801
transcript.whisperx[366].text 草案案件。三、繼續審查委員陳亭妃等17人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員陳亭妃等17人擬具
transcript.whisperx[367].start 11242.782
transcript.whisperx[367].end 11260.274
transcript.whisperx[367].text 條文修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[368].start 11268.939
transcript.whisperx[368].end 11270.421
transcript.whisperx[368].text 草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[369].start 11276.072
transcript.whisperx[369].end 11303.568
transcript.whisperx[369].text 他的不是傳統的打火易消所以增加的那可能增加的情境遇到的狀況可能都會不一樣那針對不一樣的狀況我們在服務金辦法裡面必須要讓他能夠列入在辦法裡面的服務金項目這是我們起信動念那這些列進去以後真的出狀況以後後面對易消的裝備器材訓練甚至後面真的出狀況的一個保障這些事能夠列進去
transcript.whisperx[370].start 11304.088
transcript.whisperx[370].end 11326.334
transcript.whisperx[370].text 我們期待是能夠列進去那當然這個跟總統所宣示的全社會任性防護這個是兩回事啦一開始我就報告我們的疫消人員不管是什麼疫消就是只要人命災害現場需要疫消消防人員出勤我們一定會出勤而且執行救災救援的任務
transcript.whisperx[371].start 11329.332
transcript.whisperx[371].end 11357.108
transcript.whisperx[371].text 好 各位我們討論很久其實大家都有共識我們就是有他們有修正的就在這邊啦齁來 張偉我還是要跟署長拜託啦齁這一條的修正齁因為我還是要個別提到齁就是這條其實相對應來是相當的完整啦就是您剛剛講的編組訓練演習扶勤就是所有我們義消還有救護人員甚至未來
transcript.whisperx[372].start 11358.129
transcript.whisperx[372].end 11364.594
transcript.whisperx[372].text 草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[373].start 11388.16
transcript.whisperx[373].end 11416.757
transcript.whisperx[373].text 是,跟委員報告,剛才就是,原來是傳統打火易消,那現在是增加空拍、無人機的易消,有後勤的易消,有水域的易消,有山域的易消,這個都是原來的易消範圍在擴大,所以山域的易消有山域易消的山域的救援裝備,水域有水域的救援裝備器材。署長這以前就有在做啦,我是說以前跟現在到底是哪一些不一樣的,你要讓他們增加其他相關事項。
transcript.whisperx[374].start 11418.049
transcript.whisperx[374].end 11419.01
transcript.whisperx[374].text 草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[375].start 11437.09
transcript.whisperx[375].end 11437.31
transcript.whisperx[375].text 草案案。
transcript.whisperx[376].start 11461.833
transcript.whisperx[376].end 11489.676
transcript.whisperx[376].text 是不是建議署長趕快跟張委員做個溝通在國民黨團的提案以及其他委員的提案裡面其實都有把其他相關事項放進來那是為了讓未來如果遇到相關的補助需求的時候萬一沒有規範在這個法條裡面的時候有一個空間可以處理那請消防署就這一點來跟張委員說明清楚
transcript.whisperx[377].start 11491.317
transcript.whisperx[377].end 11505.54
transcript.whisperx[377].text 來我處理一下齁張志倫委員反對齁那我們先保留阿你跟他們溝通齁要看張志倫委員他反對的理由是什麼好不好那我們趕快進去下齁第35條好不好來35條各位有沒有意見其實都差不多啦差不多沒有意見好林委員
transcript.whisperx[378].start 11524.717
transcript.whisperx[378].end 11548.425
transcript.whisperx[378].text 謝謝主席啊這個大部分的委員版本跟政院版本的差異大概就是多了5、6、7嘛對不對製造30倍以上的場所這個沒有問題第6跟第7啦21條一項之一一項一款這我們剛剛因為跟21條有關啦所以為立即提供書面或雲端資訊或者是所謂的被製作的不完整的虛偽不實則應該列入罰則
transcript.whisperx[379].start 11550.475
transcript.whisperx[379].end 11573.027
transcript.whisperx[379].text 那或者是未指派知情專人至現場協助救災者也應該列入法則,我覺得這不會不合理啊?討論一下好不好?很感謝委員的一個垂詢,正在第6款跟第7款我們在跟法務單位,因為這個條文是刑事法
transcript.whisperx[380].start 11574.315
transcript.whisperx[380].end 11578.817
transcript.whisperx[380].text 草案 刑事法 判刑問題 法務部意見針對罪行要具體法定與具體行為。
transcript.whisperx[381].start 11594.564
transcript.whisperx[381].end 11612.604
transcript.whisperx[381].text 當然委員很關心這樣的情形我們在相對的條文裡面也有一些行政處罰的措施是不是在這個地方我們可以不再處理第6款跟第7款的內容由其他行政處罰的一個行政措施來執行
transcript.whisperx[382].start 11615.01
transcript.whisperx[382].end 11635.072
transcript.whisperx[382].text 其實在這個第六款跟第七款委員提案的版本裡面其實都講得蠻清楚嘛他不是只是講說他寫得很清楚嘛就是沒有立即提供嘛然後第二個叫做應該要有知情的專人協助救災他完全不派嘛所以他的因果關係其實非常清楚嘛既然因果關係非常清楚而且也易於究責的話那是不是就應該要加重處罰嘛
transcript.whisperx[383].start 11636.013
transcript.whisperx[383].end 11661.546
transcript.whisperx[383].text 你本來政院的在書面上回應是講說沒有辦法確認跟自災有沒有必然關係寫了一大堆但是現在很清楚法條竟然有講我們現在要讓資訊權對不對讓救災人清楚的得知資訊然後第二個就是說這個包含事前的提供資料還有現場的指派專人其實都是快速的提供資訊嘛那這兩項其實是很明確的嘛你在每一場救災的時候都可以很清楚的知道到底有沒有派人有沒有提供資訊這是很清楚的
transcript.whisperx[384].start 11661.866
transcript.whisperx[384].end 11662.707
transcript.whisperx[384].text 案。三、繼續審查委員黃捷等17人擬具
transcript.whisperx[385].start 11684.147
transcript.whisperx[385].end 11704.34
transcript.whisperx[385].text 是保護部給我們指導一下就是委員身家的第6款跟第7款這樣子的事情什麼的我覺得齁我聽聽也是有道理啦反正我們有道理的我們都先說明先到時候溝通、協調好不好好來那我們35條就先這樣我們來37條來各位委員有沒有意見
transcript.whisperx[386].start 11720.704
transcript.whisperx[386].end 11739.198
transcript.whisperx[386].text 草案的強度有問題嗎?草案的強度有問題嗎?對啦。草案的強度有問題嗎?對啦。草案的強度有問題嗎?對啦。草案的強度有問題嗎?對啦。草案的強度有問題嗎?對啦。草案的強度有問題嗎?對啦。草案的強度有問題嗎?對啦。草案的強度有問題嗎?對啦。草案的強度有問題嗎?對啦。草案的強度有問題嗎?對啦。草案的強度有問題嗎?對啦。草案的強度有問題嗎?對啦。草案的強度有問題嗎?對啦。草案的強度有問題嗎?對啦。草案的強度有問題嗎?對啦。草案的強度有問題嗎?對啦。草案的強度
transcript.whisperx[387].start 11748.585
transcript.whisperx[387].end 11750.446
transcript.whisperx[387].text 條文修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[388].start 11769.653
transcript.whisperx[388].end 11788.884
transcript.whisperx[388].text 很感謝委員關心我們原來條文是只要這個情形不管是第一次第二次他就可以來做這樣的比較營業的停業處分或停止使用那委員這樣的條文是說一定要達到三次才能夠要求
transcript.whisperx[389].start 11789.932
transcript.whisperx[389].end 11807.832
transcript.whisperx[389].text 那是不是可以給縣市就原來我第一次如果是真的情形嚴重或第二次情形嚴重我就直接處理了不用等到第三次是不是可以用這樣子那不是寫說要等到第三次那是指貨因為你正院版的正院版的叫做這個前項規定處罰然後通知縣級改善者
transcript.whisperx[390].start 11808.573
transcript.whisperx[390].end 11819.602
transcript.whisperx[390].text 審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[391].start 11835.814
transcript.whisperx[391].end 11863.885
transcript.whisperx[391].text 所以我覺得應該是還OK啦是不是是跟委員報告齁因為我們的列管場所包括集合住宅一般的集合住宅那一般集合住宅像有些場所他的管理委員會沒有存在或者是他沒有辦法出這個錢那如果說我們強制三次集合住宅要停止使用我們是考慮到多層面的問題才會建議委員會這邊能夠考量這個因素啦當然灑出去後就一體適用囉
transcript.whisperx[392].start 11865.365
transcript.whisperx[392].end 11867.847
transcript.whisperx[392].text 三、繼續審查委員黃捷等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[393].start 11895.362
transcript.whisperx[393].end 11905.028
transcript.whisperx[393].text 40條其實看起來沒有特別啦不知道各位有沒有意見好沒有意見40條到行政院板通過來42條40條42條
transcript.whisperx[394].start 11918.669
transcript.whisperx[394].end 11933.062
transcript.whisperx[394].text 事實上我覺得違規造成火災更容易發生很多救災的不方便我覺得這個法則本身是覺得要再提高42條好那個署長
transcript.whisperx[395].start 11943.637
transcript.whisperx[395].end 11962.074
transcript.whisperx[395].text 我們在討論這個條文的時候已經把這個額度升高已經升高到相當的程度那是不是要再往上調因為我們的處罰的對象就剛剛有報告很多的類型那處罰的行為有很有輕的有重的有非常重的
transcript.whisperx[396].start 11962.714
transcript.whisperx[396].end 11973.1
transcript.whisperx[396].text 有不同的情形。對啦,本席就是跟你說,因為去年兩萬嘛,我沒來你擔嘛。但是有的想過,有的想過,那個時候,你們說最高30萬齁。本席是覺得你們要調整為100萬齁,這樣才有一個好主作用啦。
transcript.whisperx[397].start 11988.011
transcript.whisperx[397].end 12016.552
transcript.whisperx[397].text 條文修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員陳亭妃等17人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員陳亭妃等17人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。三、繼續審查委員陳亭妃等17人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員陳亭妃等17人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、繼續審查委員陳亭妃等17人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員陳亭妃等17人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、繼續�
transcript.whisperx[398].start 12018.938
transcript.whisperx[398].end 12046.793
transcript.whisperx[398].text 條文修正草案案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。五、繼續�
transcript.whisperx[399].start 12058.943
transcript.whisperx[399].end 12059.383
transcript.whisperx[399].text 也是跟剛剛的一樣來 署長
transcript.whisperx[400].start 12068.798
transcript.whisperx[400].end 12093.047
transcript.whisperx[400].text 我們原來的條文是建議原來的條文就是負責人及行為人處罰1萬到5萬然後病得命期性改善那技術改善得點去處罰當然委員會這邊有建議就是用暗刺然後或的話我們原來是負責人跟行為人都可以處罰
transcript.whisperx[401].start 12094.187
transcript.whisperx[401].end 12109.293
transcript.whisperx[401].text 草案案件。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。七、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。八、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[402].start 12123.018
transcript.whisperx[402].end 12124.738
transcript.whisperx[402].text 草案案件事宣告。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[403].start 12143.342
transcript.whisperx[403].end 12143.422
transcript.whisperx[403].text 草案。
transcript.whisperx[404].start 12162.564
transcript.whisperx[404].end 12163.284
transcript.whisperx[404].text 主席跟委員說明
transcript.whisperx[405].start 12185.947
transcript.whisperx[405].end 12186.047
transcript.whisperx[405].text 草案。
transcript.whisperx[406].start 12209.827
transcript.whisperx[406].end 12216.69
transcript.whisperx[406].text 案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具、「消防法部分條文修正草案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[407].start 12238.78
transcript.whisperx[407].end 12242.282
transcript.whisperx[407].text 審查委員蔡其昌等22人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等22人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等22人擬具
transcript.whisperx[408].start 12261.88
transcript.whisperx[408].end 12277.404
transcript.whisperx[408].text 是 感謝委員對於這個是採取狀況的一個活在調查的一個狀況的一個處理那第二項是針對災調會的一個狀況就災調會處理他不提供調閱或提供文字資料要處罰6000到10萬元以下罰款
transcript.whisperx[409].start 12280.725
transcript.whisperx[409].end 12285.149
transcript.whisperx[409].text 消防法部分條文修正草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[410].start 12305.208
transcript.whisperx[410].end 12313.433
transcript.whisperx[410].text 草案案件事宜提供。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[411].start 12330.444
transcript.whisperx[411].end 12350.775
transcript.whisperx[411].text 之前在調查的時候有一些機關可能有一些保留但是後來都還是有提供我想這個是我們目前操作的信息部門報告主席因為這一條我們是根據這個剛剛第27條之一的這個有沒有組成災害事故調查會的那個部分因為既然剛剛那條保留是不是應該這條也是跟著那個聯動好不好
transcript.whisperx[412].start 12351.575
transcript.whisperx[412].end 12380.069
transcript.whisperx[412].text 沒錯我先說明一下立場說明一下啦就是說這個委員版的意思大概就是講說是拒絕調閱提供資料才罰嘛阿你講說這個他有些時候沒有資料阿沒有資料就不是拒絕阿是他真的沒有嘛那他不會有裁罰的問題嘛是明知其有然後要求你提供因為我們剛剛前面消防法討論很多的機制就是說應該要備制應該要什麼所以很多人應該是要有的理應要有而他沒有那當然就應該要罰嘛可是他如果真的沒有或是不在消防法的守備範圍之內本來就不會罰
transcript.whisperx[413].start 12380.689
transcript.whisperx[413].end 12397.902
transcript.whisperx[413].text 所以我是覺得針對委員的這個條文並不會有所影響反而更完整以上反正我覺得如果跟剛剛的這個有聯動你們想清楚跟委員溝通清楚好不好好謝謝委員那我們現在來事實三條之一來各位有沒有意見
transcript.whisperx[414].start 12410.274
transcript.whisperx[414].end 12413.236
transcript.whisperx[414].text 這跟21條1連動嘛對啊21條1沒有定論之前43條1沒辦法修嘛對啊好不好我覺得這乾一包啦好不好21條1跟43條1一起嘛好那43條之2
transcript.whisperx[415].start 12438.447
transcript.whisperx[415].end 12451.731
transcript.whisperx[415].text 其實43條之二是條文都一樣啦雖然有連但條文都一樣啦嘿啦我們就照照圓版通過啦好不好好好來43條之二照圓版通過來46條46條之一46條之一
transcript.whisperx[416].start 12470.009
transcript.whisperx[416].end 12489.893
transcript.whisperx[416].text 這消防署說明一下,你們會不會自在難行或怎麼樣?原來警察人員一條邊的時候是有定共計辦法但是這個共計辦法福利互助政策這個部分是因為跟中央公務員福利互助辦法
transcript.whisperx[417].start 12490.953
transcript.whisperx[417].end 12494.156
transcript.whisperx[417].text 消防法部分條文修正草案案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[418].start 12508.507
transcript.whisperx[418].end 12513.989
transcript.whisperx[418].text 草案案件。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。
transcript.whisperx[419].start 12534.621
transcript.whisperx[419].end 12559.017
transcript.whisperx[419].text 警察的部分已經廢止了所以確實不太好處理我追問我釐清一下因為我們除了講消防人員之外當然消防人員屬於公務體系所以他有一個公務體系的一些福利保障辦法但我們有講到義勇消防人員本來是可以准用的如果是從義勇消防這個角度出發他有沒有這樣的機制或這樣的可能去做所謂的互助共濟事項我請消防署提供一下意見跟說明我們釐清一下這個問題謝謝
transcript.whisperx[420].start 12561.259
transcript.whisperx[420].end 12562.82
transcript.whisperx[420].text 草案案件。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[421].start 12590.538
transcript.whisperx[421].end 12592.939
transcript.whisperx[421].text 草案案件事務委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會
transcript.whisperx[422].start 12621.175
transcript.whisperx[422].end 12643.441
transcript.whisperx[422].text 那這部分我們請消防署提供一下資料因為我們本意是要希望這個權益升級嘛那你講你的自愛難行跟實務上有些狀況先做一個說明跟說帖萬一人家問起來的時候我們總要可以說明好不好那所以不予修訂那我們就不堅持好不好好 那我們就不予修訂好不好不予鎮定不予鎮定好 那再來47條47條應該沒有什麼問題吧我們就47條應該就照
transcript.whisperx[423].start 12651.783
transcript.whisperx[423].end 12658.665
transcript.whisperx[423].text 四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具《消防法部分條文修正草案》案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[424].start 12681.559
transcript.whisperx[424].end 12682.84
transcript.whisperx[424].text 草案案。
transcript.whisperx[425].start 12697.73
transcript.whisperx[425].end 12720.004
transcript.whisperx[425].text 來 各位委員還有這個消防署其實我們今天保留的條文啊非常多條而且我認為也非常的重要這一個字不一樣那個影響的非常大所以我在這邊徵求各位還有消防署這些東西你明天我們還要開會來不來得及給我們
transcript.whisperx[426].start 12727.798
transcript.whisperx[426].end 12736.85
transcript.whisperx[426].text 我只問你明天來不來得及你就照我的回答就好啦我們再跟委員是不是容許給我們一些時間跟委員溝通你要多久
transcript.whisperx[427].start 12743.831
transcript.whisperx[427].end 12747.113
transcript.whisperx[427].text 案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具、「消防法部分條文修正草案案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[428].start 12788.799
transcript.whisperx[428].end 12793.721
transcript.whisperx[428].text 董事長,因為有很多問題大家會考慮當中,在剛才保留這樣,你有沒有辦法在這兩星期去溝通清楚嗎?
transcript.whisperx[429].start 12802.83
transcript.whisperx[429].end 12804.251
transcript.whisperx[429].text 條文修正草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
transcript.whisperx[430].start 12822.324
transcript.whisperx[430].end 12833.089
transcript.whisperx[430].text 明天繼續開是最好啦但以今天的狀況來講我們也必須要講你明天開應該也是對嘛吼這也是沒有結果所以我們我們也不要
transcript.whisperx[431].start 12835.086
transcript.whisperx[431].end 12855.45
transcript.whisperx[431].text 那個啦我們也要給消防署壓力啦反正我就下下禮拜再排啦對不對那總不能他說一個月我們給他一個月啊對不對齁所以我們就下下禮拜再排啦我不知道各位委員這樣子我的這樣子決定大家贊不贊成贊成就下下禮拜排啊看你們啊
transcript.whisperx[432].start 12864.189
transcript.whisperx[432].end 12867.158
transcript.whisperx[432].text 我看你們要禮拜一還是禮拜三禮拜四我都尊重大家啊
transcript.whisperx[433].start 12870.52
transcript.whisperx[433].end 12895.153
transcript.whisperx[433].text 好啦齁 那所以我們大家都有共識我們就這樣子好不好好好好我們委員會我請教一下這個是我們的幕僚單位會不會準備一個因為現在有很多條文已經有共識的他們會重新整理過精簡的版本嘛對對會重新整理過我們就不用再那麼複雜了就還保留的來討論而已好 謝謝我剛剛也有請教他們也是要時間處理啦好 謝謝趙委員
transcript.whisperx[434].start 12899.44
transcript.whisperx[434].end 12917.21
transcript.whisperx[434].text 草案案第3、第4、第5、第6案。因為今天補上,我都公佈不會審理這個委員的修正動作。接下來學商學問,我覺得針對我們今天有交行政案通過的也要唸一下,保留哪幾條唸一下好不好?
transcript.whisperx[435].start 12919.983
transcript.whisperx[435].end 12938.474
transcript.whisperx[435].text 那各位委員那我們現在啊齁我們先因為剛剛有一些委員有提新的修正動議我們還是把它唸一下讓消防署可以在這一個禮拜之內去處理啦阿但是你不唸他就沒辦法處理啊好不好齁那我正確的話我們就唸一下好不好
transcript.whisperx[436].start 12938.914
transcript.whisperx[436].end 12939.695
transcript.whisperx[436].text 我們現在補宣讀修正動議3456
transcript.whisperx[437].start 12955.174
transcript.whisperx[437].end 12982.081
transcript.whisperx[437].text 草案。」案。修正動議三、第十五條,第八項修正為,舉發人因其揭露行為經查證屬實但有犯刑法特別刑法之妨害秘密罪或背信罪者免出棄刑。其餘同國民黨黨團提案。第二十一條之一,第一款修正為,平時備制化學品種類數量位置平面配置圖及搶救必要資訊,並因即時修正或在發生時應立即提供消防指揮人員該等資訊。其餘同行政院提案。
transcript.whisperx[438].start 12983.281
transcript.whisperx[438].end 12992.088
transcript.whisperx[438].text 草案 第25條之一第二項後段增訂消防機關代表以各級消防機關非限職非主管人員違憲其餘同行政院提案。
transcript.whisperx[439].start 12993.649
transcript.whisperx[439].end 13013.875
transcript.whisperx[439].text 第25條之3後段修正為且消防基層人員比例不得低於五分之一其餘同國民黨黨團提案。第47條增訂第二項本法中華民國全年、全月、全日之修正條文自公佈日後6個月內施行其餘同現行條文提案人委員徐信穎等3人。
transcript.whisperx[440].start 13014.918
transcript.whisperx[440].end 13031.004
transcript.whisperx[440].text 修正動議4,第21條之一,第一項第一款前段增加平時與警衛室或有人經常駐守且獨立於主要建築物外之其他相類處所或經消防機關指定之處所。
transcript.whisperx[441].start 13032.364
transcript.whisperx[441].end 13046.556
transcript.whisperx[441].text 第三款修正委火災發生時指派經中央主管機關公告之息火災預防資訊之專人立即至現場協助救災經指派之人不能立即到場者應急令行指派他人。其餘同委員牛許廷等人提案。
transcript.whisperx[442].start 13048.43
transcript.whisperx[442].end 13065.077
transcript.whisperx[442].text 第43條之一第1、2、3項違反第21條之一第一項第一款規定之文字修正為違反第21條之一第一款文字修正為違反第21條之一第一項第一款規定
transcript.whisperx[443].start 13066.397
transcript.whisperx[443].end 13091.845
transcript.whisperx[443].text 增訂第4項經管理權人依第21條之一第1項第3款指派規定指派之人無正當理由未立即到場或待遇協助救災者處該被指派之人新台幣20萬元以上50萬元以下罰還。原第4項第5項一列第5項第6項其餘同委員牛許亭等提案提案人委員牛許亭等3人
transcript.whisperx[444].start 13094.382
transcript.whisperx[444].end 13121.101
transcript.whisperx[444].text 動議五、第二十八條第一項刪除及其他相關事項等文字。第三項修正為參加第一項義勇消防組織人員之安全衛生防護事項得准用第二十五條之二第二項及第二十五條之四規定及第二十五條之六第一項規定。其餘同行政院提案提案人委員張志倫等四人修正動議六
transcript.whisperx[445].start 13123.137
transcript.whisperx[445].end 13149.455
transcript.whisperx[445].text 第21條之一,工廠儲存化學品或一定規模以上之倉庫及公共危險物品室內儲存場所之管理權人因下列規定辦理一,平時備制並上網申報化學品或儲存物品之種類、數量、位置、平面配置圖及搶救必要資訊,並與火災發生時可供消防指揮人員與網上查閱。二、平時建立重機械業者資訊與火災發生時主動調度救災所需重機械協助搶救,
transcript.whisperx[446].start 13149.935
transcript.whisperx[446].end 13179.159
transcript.whisperx[446].text 草案 並支付所有必要費用。三、火災發生時指派知情專人立即至現場協助救災。其一知情專人由中央主管機關公告或訂定相關標準。場所之管理權人不能或未及依前項第二款調度時主管機關得代為調度並依項其求償相關必要費用。第一項一定規模以上倉庫之認定標準由中央主管機關定之。第一項第一款化學品或儲存物品之認定申報方式格式頻率方式保存
transcript.whisperx[447].start 13180.099
transcript.whisperx[447].end 13207.813
transcript.whisperx[447].text 資訊公開工商機密保護方式及其他應遵行事向之辦法由中央主管機關定之。提案人委員徐玉珍等3人宣讀完畢。好那我們現在宣讀協商結論消防法部分條文修正草案第一條照行政院版本通過第9條不予修訂維持現行版本
transcript.whisperx[448].start 13209.045
transcript.whisperx[448].end 13230.917
transcript.whisperx[448].text 第15條保留。第15條之六不予修訂維持現行條文。第16條不予修訂維持現行條文。第21條之一保留。第21條之二照行政院版本通過。增訂第三章章名照行政院版通過。第25條之一保留。
transcript.whisperx[449].start 13233.871
transcript.whisperx[449].end 13258.919
transcript.whisperx[449].text 第25條之二造行政院版本通過第25條之三保留第25條之四造行政院版本通過第25條之五造行政院版本通過第25條之六造行政院版本通過第25條之七造行政院版本通過第25條之八保留第25條之九造行政院版本通過
transcript.whisperx[450].start 13262.025
transcript.whisperx[450].end 13283.329
transcript.whisperx[450].text 第25條之10不予增訂。第27條之1保留。第28條、第35條、第37條保留。第40條照行政院版本通過。第42條、第42條之1保留。第42條之3照行政院版本通過。第43條保留。第43條之1保留。第43條之2照行政院版本通過。
transcript.whisperx[451].start 13291.887
transcript.whisperx[451].end 13318.881
transcript.whisperx[451].text 草案。第46條之一,不予增訂。第47條,照行政院版本通過。以上。不好意思齁,剛剛25條之八後來這個消防署有給我們他們修正通過了。大家有沒有意見?如果沒有意見這一條,就是黃捷委員他的那個保障女性消防人員的這個
transcript.whisperx[452].start 13322.545
transcript.whisperx[452].end 13347.976
transcript.whisperx[452].text 這個懷孕認診的還有42條之一是不是也照這個修正通過還有42條之一就是那個牛軒亭委員說暗刺的那一個所以這兩條我現在在徵求如果這兩條也都修正通過了我們就不保留了沒有那兩條剛剛說過了對阿我再次確認
transcript.whisperx[453].start 13349.622
transcript.whisperx[453].end 13371.447
transcript.whisperx[453].text 因為我們剛剛是都沒有意見但是他們的書面現在來所以我還是要徵求跟大家如果沒有意見這兩條就按照修正通過好不好就不用保留請問各位委員相關條文有協商結論照剛才宣讀的協商結論通過請問有異議
transcript.whisperx[454].start 13377.449
transcript.whisperx[454].end 13377.689
transcript.whisperx[454].text 審查委員
transcript.whisperx[455].start 13399.957
transcript.whisperx[455].end 13401.079
transcript.whisperx[455].text 草案案件事項 。三、繼續審查委員
transcript.whisperx[456].start 13413.499
transcript.whisperx[456].end 13437.402
transcript.whisperx[456].text 草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。五、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。六、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具:「消防法部分條文修正草案。
transcript.whisperx[457].start 13442.447
transcript.whisperx[457].end 13444.932
transcript.whisperx[457].text 草案案。三、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具
會議時間 2024-10-16T09:00:00+08:00
會議名稱 立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議(事由:一、審查行政院函請審議「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。二、繼續審查委員陳亭妃等17人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。三、繼續審查委員黃捷等17人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。四、繼續審查委員蔡其昌等21人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。五、繼續審查委員廖先翔等18人擬具「消防法第十五條、第二十一條之二及第四十三條之一條文修正草案」案。六、繼續審查委員吳琪銘等19人擬具「消防法第二十一條之一、第二十一條之二及第四十三條之一條文修正草案」案。七、繼續審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「消防法第四十三條之一條文修正草案」案。八、審查委員范雲等21人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。九、審查委員王美惠等23人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。十、審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等18人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。十一、審查委員張宏陸等26人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。十二、審查委員黃捷等16人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。十三、審查國民黨黨團擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。十四、審查委員楊瓊瓔等20人擬具「消防法第四十三條及第四十三條之一條文修正草案」案。十五、審查委員牛煦庭等22人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。十六、審查委員洪孟楷等19人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。十七、審查委員林思銘等18人擬具「消防法部分條文修正草案」案。十八、審查委員邱若華等20人擬具「消防法第四十三條之一條文修正草案」案。【第十七、十八案如經復議則不予審查。】 【10月16日、17日二天一次會】)
委員發言時間 08:31:17 - 12:15:00
IVOD_ID 16175
IVOD_URL https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16175
日期 2024-10-16
會議資料.會議代碼 委員會-11-2-15-5
會議資料.屆 11
會議資料.會期 2
會議資料.會次 5
會議資料.種類 委員會
會議資料.委員會代碼[0] 15
會議資料.標題 第11屆第2會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議
影片種類 Full
開始時間 2024-10-16T08:31:17+08:00
結束時間 2024-10-16T12:15:00+08:00
支援功能[0] ai-transcript