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| 委員名稱 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1793.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1799.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
還沒有人來那就再等一下了 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1821.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1827.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
好,我們委員會要正式開會了,我們請媒體記者先領洗,好嗎?謝謝好,我們現在會議開始,我們請議事人員先宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1835.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1858.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議議事錄時間113年10月7日星期一上午9時1分至下午20時12分地點本院紅樓201會議室主席委員徐志傑等15人、練習委員蔓玉珍等26人、練習官員、社會發展部部長黃燕蘭等主席魯昭及委員明哲報告私下宣入上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1861.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1880.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
邀請數位發展部部長等進行專題報告．並備質詢本日會議由數位發展部部長黃燕楠等報告後藉由委員林國成等26人提出質詢軍經數位發展部部長黃燕楠等及相關人員分別予以答覆決定一報告及訊號完畢二為曾冠廷所提 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1881.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1892.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
書面質詢列入紀錄並刊登公報三委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請數位發展部等相關機關盡述以書面答覆散會宣讀完畢好,謝謝那等一下一失落我們等一下再確定那我先介紹一下今天列席的官員那我們首先歡迎交通部政務次長吳勝元吳次長,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1911.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1924.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
公共運輸及監理司司長林福山介紹綜合規劃司司長張垂龍陸政及道安司副司長蔡淑冰 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1927.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1938.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
鐵道局局長楊振軍運輸研究所所長林紀國國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司董事長杜威臺灣鐵路高速股份有限公司總經理鄭光遠 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1949.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1960.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信德主任秘書姚承安執行長林佩達主長吳繼春介紹在場委員李坤澤委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1970.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1996.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
本次會議邀請交通部、交通部鐵道局、交通部運輸研究所、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司及國家運輸安全調查委員會就《臺灣鐵道安全提升計畫》進行專題報告．並備質詢。那我們首先就是請這個列席機關來報告。我們首先請交通部武聖遠次長報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2012.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2040.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
主席、各位委員、各位女士、先生今天應邀到國營會來就臺鐵鐵道安全提升計畫進行專題報告進行各位委員來指教那臺北鐵道系統包括鐵路好規定的鐵路系統以及大眾法規規定的捷運其中捷運的部分是由地方政府來負責監督鐵路系統則由交通部為主管機關那由鐵道局來監督管理那就鐵路的部分來進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2042.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2046.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
第一在目前鐵道安全的水準的現況臺灣鐵路系統包括高鐵、台鐵、磷鐵、銅鐵分別由 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2052.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2078.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
總共我這四個鐵路那台鐵在1、2年的一般事故平均大概有42件那其中的主要的原因大概是出軌、火災以及平交道事故以及民眾入侵的傷亡事故那高鐵近三年並沒有重大的這個行車事故一般行車事故是一件那主要是一個維修時段的工程車的事故另外是車輛的一個故障它是一個急電工 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2079.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2094.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那運轉保安裝置的故障造成延誤那另外臨鐵的部分大概也中那行車事故有一件一般行車事故有七件臨鐵的 糖鐵的部分中那及一般行車事故各一件 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2095.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2111.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那就這個鐵路安全的監理的部分我們交通部以及鐵道局、慈禧的交通對各鐵路的一個安全監理大概分了兩個來做一個報告從制度面以及執行面在制度面的部分我們修正法規那111年到現在已經完成238條的這個鐵路法規的一個修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2114.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2132.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那主要就是明定這個監理機關為鐵道局的職權另外臨鐵的駕駛也須由鐵道局來檢定、給證提高這個危害重要的路段的一個八則強化行車人員的監理另外我們頒訂國家鐵路安全計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2134.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2157.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
交通部從111年開始推動國家鐵道安全計畫以旅客臨死亡為安全的政策方針以及目標我國的鐵路安全的指標以及目標值針對這個不符合的部分我們的要求提出原因的分析還有改善的措施並強化檢查等監理作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2159.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2182.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
另外我們推動安全管理系統就所謂的SMS江部運營所從108年持續來這個辦理安全管理系統相關研究計畫包括制度化的一個策略機動的推動的機制實務作業指引等以及安全的目標管理那江部在110年修正鐵路行政安全規則要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2183.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2208 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
鐵路應建制安全管理系統並且從今年113年來實施第4個我們建立志願報告系統那主要是提供鐵路的從業人員來志願報告的一個管道來主動發掘潛伏鐵道安全的安全性的一個危害因子來督促這個鐵道營運機構採取必要一個措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2208.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2215.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那這個這部分鐵道局已經在112年完成建制那目前總共接獲了27件的一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2218.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2241.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
在執行面的部分事故事件的檢討以及調查我們這是就鐵路運轉中的發生事故事件的進行檢討在113年已經進行了16件那定期不定期的檢查為了加強對這個鐵路的檢查深度以及頻率鐵道局這個引入檢查員的制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2244.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2255.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
111年就營運以及維修高風險的項目辦理主題市的檢查總共有13次就村水輸運以及其他個案辦理臨時檢查18次113年並就安全的關鍵項目實施例行檢查有24次 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2262.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2276.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
另外我們發布鐵路行車安全通報發現有不同不安全的風險立即發布鐵安公告那從111年到現在我們已經發布了12件那持續追蹤台鐵安全改革 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2278.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2287.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
建議403發生地震以後東部的鐵路安全問題我們就危險邊坡、橋樑還有監控措施召開會議來請臺鐵局來做一個改善措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2293.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2315.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
另外我們引進第三方的評鑑我們接近JRC日本的公司的一個經驗111年、112年委託第三方評鑑單位來辦理臺鐵安全管理系統的一個評鑑我們希望能夠透過外部的機制檢核臺鐵公司的安全改革的一個成效在安全改革的辦理情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2317.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2344.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
按今年的這個鐵路系統的事故的一個太陽將不應透過相關的調查以及檢查機制來持續督促鐵路機構來加強改善臺鐵在107年及111年發生兩次的重大的嚴格事故那我們就這個臺鐵的安全改革的半年這邊做一個進一步的說明第一個在他用所謂的五年安全計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2346.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2360.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
這五年來,臺鐵公司在113年的1月1日掛牌以後,即將確保安全列為第一要務,從調整組織一個編制、建立安全體系等這些面向在求精進,確保營業的穩定和安全性。 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2366.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2368.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
臺灣鐵道安全提升計畫目前幫你情況是以安全重點為核心工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2388.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2413.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
從112年9月開始立案那歷經臺鐵公司的第二次的安全管理委員會的一個會議還有第1屆董事會第7次的會議審議通過、決議照案進行第二個我們成立五年安全提升計畫的專業管理辦公室推動了這樣的一個團隊每兩個月召開一次會議並提報公司董事會安全管理委員會來審核 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2415.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2439.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我們持續優化安全管理系統在113年引進新的專業技術服務團隊的協助臺鐵SMS管理風險管理的一個程序並配合交通部推動公司的SMS的一個政策的目標辦理臺鐵安全管理系統的第三方評鑑來確認它推動SMS的一個有效性 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2440.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2464.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那在這個改善組織安全的架構董事會設定有一個所謂的安全管理委員會那另外設定一個營業安全處由總經理直接督導另外在分區的部分營運處加設一個安全科所以建立這樣的一個新的安全體系來強化營業安全基層的一個管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2468.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2495.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
目前辦理大概在安全管理的委員會已經召開兩次會議包括追認113的營運安全的計畫另外營運安全處每月以及定期安全檢討相關的會議總共累計已經達40次在這個營運安全處他也辦理行車安全檢測重大節日前的連續假期前的行車保安的一個查核目前總共辦了20次 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2498.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2518.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
強化安全策略一個作為第一個降低行車事故訂定臺鐵公司5年的行車事故的目標值從月113年起逐年降低到117年降低的這個件數達到50%另外113年的1月到7月因為天然的一個災損民眾侵入鐵路路線以及 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2525.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2543.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
為您達到目標,將會持續檢討改善。後續作為改善,透過5年的安全提升計畫執行引進安全管理系統及第三方評鑑,來建立臺鐵行車及企業安全文化,增加安全考核頻率, |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2545.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2571.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
在這個11月將擴大舉辦公司的行車安全跑安設備的檢查以及考核另外加速北回路段增設8處的阻隔設施告警系統以及西正線的搶通復原工作持續辦理漢本道衝車間在第二天次首班車發車以前先用維修公車來進行路線的刑檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2575.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2594.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
在零四零三花蓮強震以及豪大雨天災使得有些路段發生落石土石流這些部分我們辦理土石流的一個整治希望能夠增加民粹道那辦理這個和平到從德的一個改憲的一個評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2597.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2624.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
臺鐵公司每年定期對所有員工進行安全的一個知識以及緊急應變技能的一個培訓來強化安全的一個教育、訓練以及深化員工的一個安全意識最後結議這個鐵路安全運輸具有運輸大、班次密集、快速便捷的一個特性那將持續從自路面、設備面還有執行面來演繹精進安全作為具以強化、監理 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2628.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2638.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
提供旅客安全的鐵道的運輸服務一聲報告,敬請各位支持、指教。謝謝好,謝謝五次長的報告接下來請國家運輸安全調查委員會林信的主委報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2660.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2671.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
主席各位委員、各位理事、各位先生今天很榮幸應邀列席貴委員會就臺灣鐵道安全提升計畫進行報告請各位委員指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2672.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2695.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
運安會依組織法及運輸事故調查法執行重大運輸事故的調查以及提出運輸安全改善建議我們調查的範圍包括航空、水路、鐵道、公路那麼我們也透過系統的整合跟調查發掘可能噪音以及安全的風險提出改善建議避免類似事件再發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2696.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2726.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
現在就重大鐵道事故的調查的概況來做一個簡單的報告本會自108.8要成立到現在重大鐵道事故的立案共有30件那麼28件已經結案那麼這幾天我們也提出了221項的安全改善建議以下就現在調查中有關鐵道的重大運輸事故的事件做一個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2727.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2752.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
有關臺鐵列車臨角站正線出軌的這個事故啊那今年在2月12日就是臺鐵一個脾氣線的一個列車啊從八斗子站開往京同站那在早上10點54分的時候經過新北市臨角站發生出軌那麼這個事故沒有人傷亡可是呢他有發生這個整個四時列車的一個損害 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2754.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2783.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那麼這個案子已經在今年的8月發布事實資料的報告一定明年的6月會完成最終的調查報告那麼第二個事故是臺北新自強號列車在新河嶺隧道正線出軌的這個事故這個是在今年6月21日這個也是臺北自強號列車從花蓮縣的列車站出發開往新北市的樹林站大概下午4點50分的時候經過花蓮縣新河嶺隧道南口的時候他 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2783.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2787.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
臺灣鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司及國家運輸安全調查委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2799.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2826.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
本會在7月19日也發布了一個所謂調查期間的運輸安全通告請鐵道營運機關評估土石流、潛勢溪流可能影響鐵道橋樑之路段建立整備之監控及應變機制避免列車因撞擊屬實造成事故這個案子依據在今年11月發布事實資料報告明年的8月會完成最終的調查報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2827.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2855.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
有關安全改善建議的追蹤目前為止在鐵道部有221項的安全改善建議完成改善結案的有181項剩下40項各機關構仍在積極改善中其中以台鐵公司最多主要是施工安全管理列車的維修檢查列車的運轉調度還有平交道的安全防護等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2857.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2881.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
那麼關於調查期間安全通告本會在個案重大運輸事故調查的過程中如果發現對鐵路安全有立即影響的那麼我們都會誓死喊請相關機關採取預防的設施改善它的運輸安全至108年8月要成立基金我們總共有發布6項調查期間的運輸安全通告 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2883.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2909.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
請參閱其他有關鐵道安全的這個促進作為我們這一百一十年開始提升鐵道安全針對鐵道安全的重要議題邀請國內的專家學者、鐵道監理機關、營業機關都會進行經驗的分享共同討論不管是研討會、論壇會我們都會做一個平台讓大家能夠互相交流包括發揮他他商支持前車世界的目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2911.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2930.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
今年我們預定在11月1號在高雄市要舉辦所謂運輸安全的研討會議題包括鐵道的外務入侵之防範機制、集團氣候下天然災變鐵道預警的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2931.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2943.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
與鐵道虛擬世界的組織與防範特別邀請專家、學者、鐵道經理機關、營運機關等共同參與就鐵道事故的安全危害控管策略進行交流與討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2946.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2963.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
本會將持續辦理重大鐵道事務的調查作業﹐協助相關機關落實安全改善協議之執行﹐以及與集體機關營運機構共同就安全議題﹐及其事務的交流﹐以達成鐵道運輸安全的目標﹐以上報告進行執照。謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2972.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2999.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
好那現在進行詢答那先宣告以下事項詢答時間出席委員6加2分鐘列席委員4加1分鐘委員發言登記於10點30分截止各委員如有臨時提案請於10點前提出以便醫事人員會診暫定10點30分休息10分鐘中午原則上不休息那現在請登記第一位李坤澤委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3007.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3014.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
好,謝謝陳書悅召委,請一下吳聖元次長,杜薇董事長,鐵道局楊振軍局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3022.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3042.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
市長好因為極端氣候的肆虐我們臺灣也剛好是在地震帶上也是颱風路徑常常經過的一個國家所以說對於交通系統的韌性尤其是鐵道系統如何提升它的強韌的這個韌性來確保人民的 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3047.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3057.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
出行的安全以及交通系統的穩定性這是交通部重要的工作跟責任那我們對於強化交通系統的韌性 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3060.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3085.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
市長簡單說明一下目前的簡單的做法我想我先簡單報告一下針對我們以現在目前大概對台灣的結論氣候影響比較大大概就是在花蓮的北迴段的部分從上次地震以後地質非常的一個脆弱下大雨到一些所謂的土修上來我想針對這部分我們除了跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3086.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3109.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
會進行一些所謂的流域的一個聯訪機制跟上游的林業署、農村水保署我們進行還有公路局進行一些區域聯訪他得到的一些訊息能夠提供給我們知道這是一個預期的第二個我們底下我們的工程的部分我們做一些所謂的清淤還有包括我們可能會做一些所謂的排沙相含我們把它加大 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3110.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3114.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
市長這是從分兩個方面來簡單的一個詢問第一個我們是必須針對交通系統全面的韌性的加強來確保交通運輸的安全這是全面性的也不只是只有東部這一段 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3134.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3153.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
那東部這一段主要它是在河嶺跟崇德也就是台九線164.4K這個部分其實就是一個經常的土石流、泥流傾瀉而下造成公路系統以及鐵道系統的這種安全的 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3153.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3153.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
委員會長 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3176.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3198.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
臺鐵這一次有實施這個預警性的封閉這是一個很重要的安全的一個提升的方面但是更重要還是要強化我們相關的這些軌道的安全來做一個工程的改善跟提升來降低大自然災害對交通系統的這種衝擊來這個祝董事長簡單說明一下我們這個預警系統這一次實施的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3203.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3225.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
跟委員報告我們這一次所謂預警性的我們的停駛其實跟我們剛剛提到的我們的告警還有我們的監視都有關係那剛剛次長有提到就是聯防機制我們在上端上邊坡我們公路系統有發現異狀的時候我們下面鐵路系統就有在做準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3226.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3242.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那另外剛剛委員有提到很重要的就是這邊寫的4點有關於這個安全提升的這些各項目我們臺鐵公司我們已經都把它納到我們現在的5年精進的這個安全提升的一個計畫裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3243.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3266.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
杜董事長我們對於彎道改善及倒車、鋼軌更新這是一個很重要的基礎因為我們要減少軌道結構的老化來提升它這種基礎設施的安全性那入侵阻隔設施及告警系統的這個建制尤其是在高風險的這個路段必須要強化這些基本的設施那 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3268.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3291.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
邊坡的巡檢系統的精進必須要提升它的科技巡檢的這樣的一個能力花蓮地震災後的復原重建是很重要的要提高它的防災的一個能力面對自然災害我們必須要做到快速的預警還有及時的反應來降低這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3293.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3313.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
大自然災害對交通系統安全以及相關運輸安全的一個衝擊那我們現在提到我們在過去有很多安全的計畫杜董事長交通委員會我們過去我在20多年來在對台鐵的這個安全提升的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3314.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3333.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
這個是大家都看得到的我們看到我們有買很多的新車不管是乘機列車、區間列車或是支線車或是機車花了將近就要一千億然後我們也支持臺鐵相關的安全的提升計畫包括六年安全的 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3334.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3360.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
提升計畫或是小半徑彎曲的這個改善計畫電路智慧化的提升計畫以及軌道結構安全的提升計畫現在又有一個五年安全的提升計畫那這個部分其實我們有兩個問題第一個就是說五年安全的提升計畫就關係到SMS它的這個系統我們的建立 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3361.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3377.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
只是增加運輸工作沒有辦法去落實問題的意識還有安全的文化的建立這個等一下我們再來一一的說明還有會不會再延誤啊因為我們六年安全提升計畫就延誤了好久那相關的問題有沒有解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3378.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3401.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
那SNS我們先來講第一個安全的管理系統效果的一個評估那基層都在懷念以及我們的觀察認為SNS安全系統是一個重要的系統但是目前都是流於形式它只是增加基層員工的文書作業工作歸檔然後再加上行政程序緩鎖的確認機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3404.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3413.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
變成只是一種形式沒有辦法去針對問題因為員工也沒有參與啊農地做文書作業沒有辦法建立這種問題的意識跟安全文化來 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3414.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3443.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
杜董事長簡單說明一下我跟委員報告其實我們SMS不同於以往我們SMS我們現在是站在風險管控的角度來做所以當然這個裡面會有風險管控當然是很重要這樣我講就是它流於形式只是增加文書作業只是將工作歸檔然後增加再一次的確認機制的這樣一個繁瑣的程序而已你沒有辦法去建立這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3445.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3470.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
對於問題的解決還有安全文化的建立問題在這邊啦 董事長各位委員報告這一個剛剛講到從風險來開始其實分析每一個風險後面到最終的步驟就是怎麼樣去預防改善這個我們現在SMS的階段都已經把它建立起來那的確這個裡面會有一些文書的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3470.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3478.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
那我們的做法是把以往我們這些比較浮於形式的文書工作我們把它裁剪掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3479.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3501.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
這個必須要去審視內部的考評集合以及行政的管理系統我們要精簡過時還有無效的程序的另外納入員工參與安全決策的這個設計跟討論這個非常重要要建立平等的會議以及協商的機制要重視基層員工的這個意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3502.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3523.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
另外五年安全的提升計畫具體的時程表我們看到行車六年安全改善計畫我也都參與在其中整個預算還有整個政策的執行我們就看到這個多方的原因六年行車安全改善計畫就有兩度的展延 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3525.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3531.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
6年變成10年了真的要在交通委員會待的夠久才能看到你們這個實施的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3533.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3554.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
我看到我們兩度展演當然是有很多像環境的變遷或者是需求的變動甚至是政策的名義或者是招標困難當然我們也碰到零軌工程的這種施工造成延誤或者是疫情的衝擊等等但這個都不應該是成為理由 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3557.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3574.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
這個來杜董事長簡單說明一下是跟委員報告這個行車安全改善六年計畫我們預計就是今年我們會達成那所以接續這個計畫下去就我剛剛有提及的五年安全提升計畫是接續然後它是站在風險管控的角度來繼續來實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3576.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3600.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
那剛剛委員提到一個重點就是說五年安全提升計畫我們預期第一個五年計畫我們會在117年我們會來達成但是但是後面還會陸續有第二個第三個這個五年的計畫這個是我們公司現在目前我們提升安全的一個構想杜董事長也因為時間的關係我最後啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3601.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3628.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
針對五年安全的這個提升計畫我們應該要針對完善的安全體系也必須調整教育的訓練發展智慧鐵道、更新設施、設備等事道方面來全面推動相關的台鐵的交通安全的改善那五年安全提升計畫應該制定更具體的執行的時程這個次長我們針對月度或是季度必須要來檢視 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3630.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3659.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
每項任務都必須要進展如期是 這個委員指正的事我想後面剛剛提到的不管是每一頁或是每一季我想我們這個部分我們會來進行這個瞭解管控杜董事長我最後你也是一個老台鐵也長久為台鐵的發展跟這個永續的經營都一直在努力不過這幾年我一直覺得我們一直支持你買新車 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3660.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3660.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
臺鐵的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3679.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3695.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
民眾還是有疑慮對於台鐵的效率民眾還是不滿意對於相關安全系統的建立目前也是在於形勢對於真正能夠建立安全的機制還有一大段路要走 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3696.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3717.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
杜董事長最後讓你說明一下是 各位委員報告我們這個落差我們會很具體的我們落實的來執行那剛剛有講到五年安全提升計畫他會有這個很詳細的考核或跟被接受考核的這個在計畫裡面我們都有項列好 最後請次長再簡單補充說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3719.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3742.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
好 我想剛提到的我對這個台鐵目前當然它有很多事情要做包括它的硬體上建設的一個韌性的一個加強那還有一個剛那個委員所提到非常重要我個人認為很重要就是企業的安全文化這個形塑啊對台鐵是真的非常重要這個我一直在跟這個董事長還有他們管理階層一直在談 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3744.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3771.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
我們應該要有社會責任去把提供一個安全、優質的服務給民眾來使用這部分我想我們會持續再來跟這個臺鐵共同來努力自然安全力的督促是好 謝謝李崑禎委員好 謝謝那在許志堅委員發言之前我再補充介紹到場的委員首先我們歡迎林國成委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3774.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3774.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
許智傑委員許智傑委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3803.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3830.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
王主席,大家好,我們請次長還有臺鐵請五次長還有多維董事長五言好五次長好那個10月16電價調整新制那聽說後面就是漲價的那個原則跟狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3832.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3852.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
其實民眾還是有意見那我想請教一下就是漲價要怎麼漲那有沒有分比較平民化的跟比較弱勢的那要怎麼樣去處理我想我跟那個委員報告齁這個票價調漲我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3854.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3875.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
我們要必須考慮到整個運輸界的這樣一個整合、競合第二考慮到社會的經濟狀況還有對民眾影響的程度這幾個因素來進行考量那當然我們不希望說因為這樣的漲價帶頭對物價有所影響所以這個是目前台鐵我所知道台鐵目前正在 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3877.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3896.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
謹慎的做一個評估那目前他評估完之後會經過他董事會那再到報告部裡面來那比較細節的部分我是不是請董事長做一個簡單回應跟委員報告那個票價的合理化這一個我們其實上一次已經有送過董事會一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3896.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3923.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
但是董事會有退給這個經理單位因為裡面的資料還不夠齊備包括這些估算那另外還有就是委員剛剛有提到的就是對於社會以及弱勢的這個影響因為我們台鐵的輸運是短中長都有那我們上一次董事會呢退回來有一部分原因也是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3925.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3937.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
規劃覺得沒有全面性所以我們現在還在努力來做一個調整那臺鐵的電價跟全世界各國比較的狀況董事來這邊有沒有概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3945.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3953.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
其實可能大家都一直認為說台鐵其實它是真的算是用電的大戶啦因為車子開了全部要電力 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3954.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3977.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
那我所知道他們做了很多節能的一個工作包括像新車、新校的引進那另外那個比如說在開設的時候要求那個事件能夠不要所謂的急死急停類似像這種情況那他以前年12年的4月到今年的3月這個期間來 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3979.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4006.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
跟今年的4月到9月來比大概節省了9.1%我想它有很大的一個成效當然這中間也包括跟臺電的節電的小組跟他請教應該怎麼去節電我想這部分臺鐵會更深入針對這個節電的部分來做市長跟董事長我是要提一個建議你可不可以參考就是說第一個就是你比如說全世界的票價 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4007.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4027.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
一樣是20公里那你們可以去做一個比較啊那看台鐵是不是有比日本有比韓國還貴還是比較便宜這個就是一個客觀的參考嘛那第二個就是說我今天就是像台電前一陣子調整電價的時候他叫做精準調漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4029.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4052.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
我是覺得那個概念還不錯就是說你今天比較平民化的比較用電少的他是調著他幾乎是不調或是調得很小那當然用電大戶啦或者是就是真的是賺錢的你比如說企業還有中小企業跟那個大企業啊中小企業就是調比較少啊大企業調比較多 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4053.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4068.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
這個是當然用電或因為有太多不同的方向那比如說我們的台鐵調漲你第一個比較全世界各國一樣的這個公里數大概做一個概念上的比較你就會發現台鐵是比較貴還是比較便宜 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4069.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4089.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
那你要去說服人民說我要調漲票價的理由你就有個客觀的標準你就比較好參考所以這個是一個數目字我是覺得你們應該去了解一下那第二個就是說我今天在平快車或者是對號或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4090.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4113.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
自強舉光有什麼差別那我今天如果要做更好的可能調更多我今天如果要做最便宜的你就不要給我怎麼調或是調少一點類似這樣子的概念是不是在你們調整票價的時候可以去做思考不要讓人民其實我們先重視那個就是最弱勢的那一底層吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4114.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4126.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
那就是弱勢的底層如果他對他影響很大他就比較會受不了嘛那你如果比較坦白講比如說是富豪之類的那個你給他調整他也沒什麼多大的感覺啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4128.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4153.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
所以我是覺得就是說這兩個概念讓市長尤其是董事長思考一下要怎麼樣去調漲在現實的狀況跟世界各國做比較我勉強可以接受我們台鐵的調漲但是我調漲的時候有思考到弱勢要怎麼樣讓他不會影響太大我想這兩個概念是不是請台鐵可以思考一下好那另外就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4155.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4175.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
剛李昆澤立委提到的那個安全系統的問題事實上我們也一直在強調台鐵的安全那我在之前也聊過也跟質詢過就是我們的那個員工的福利啦那就是說你今天員工的福利跟安全這個部分你要怎麼樣去搭配 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4176.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4184.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
你又要馬而肥又要馬而不吃草我知道那個東部吼上一次我們有一次說招募7個人結果只有一個人來報名結果錄取0人照理講 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4189.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4214.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
在內公務機關,國營、企業,大家是趨之若鶩,台鐵是找不到人當然有的人會比較高鐵幣,現在屬性高鐵比較賺錢所以我們在轉型的過程當中,怎麼樣去精準調整不要影響到太多的平民弱勢但是你可以在你的盈餘上,或者是你其實多腳踏經營 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4216.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4222.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
其實像有很多捷運在做那個商辦啊、都更啊當然不能像那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4223.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4243.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
客批那樣子都更啦那個392變840那個比較誇張但是你是合理的合理的都更其實這個都是好的所以我是覺得就是說臺鐵可以再做一下思考那對員工的福利可以調漲的我知道現在那個現場檢察員跟盜班導師盜班師傅他們都有那個甲級證照喔就一個月而已三萬塊你找得到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4250.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4258.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
這一定找不到人,因為你要求管,後禮拜他當然是,你譬如說比較特別的,你其實要去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4259.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4282.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
做那個比較精準的就是去看看他的工作量跟他的技術、證照跟他的薪水的搭配這個部分也應該去做一下思考所以這個部分請那個我們台鐵公司也另外再特別的要求一下那最後還有一樣就是封山車站的BOT現在那個董事長有預計了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4285.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4299.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
我們還在努力中我們現在已經有開公告了依據11月底會結標我是建議董事長這件事希望你積極可以親自去 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4300.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4328.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
監督跟協助一下有有有因為其實當時的設計坦白講我們重視的是外部的改變那時候改變很漂亮我們也要求的很久啊終於有一個很大的改變所以蓋好之後坦白講我還覺得滿感謝台鐵也很用心也做這一部分也做得不錯啦但是我後來才知道內部的設計內部的設計真的還是不符一般的商場的使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4329.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4349.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
所以在內部的設計你們要做內部的怎麼樣的去改變或者是說讓人家覺得說一來會合啦商人來了結沒人會來啦所以當然這個就是說我知道這個有時候我們在POT很辛苦在圖利跟合理的利潤跟了結 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4351.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4372.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
這個中間要拿捏到什麼程度你才能夠找到好的BOT廠商來這邊做經營我希望說董事長這邊是不是可以親自的去把他監督要求不要說第二次再留標就很難看了是是我會來努力所以董事長第二次有沒有信心可以招標出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4373.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4400.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
因為現在我們第一個我們這一次招標我們招標的條件我們有做一些調整應該是吸引力會增加第二個我們也實際有去邀標訪商聽取他們的意見我想那個結果論那個第二次是11月底 對不對希望說董事長有信心能夠完成這件事這樣子沒問題吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4403.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4405.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
謝謝許智傑委員接下來邀請林國成委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4442.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4468.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
市長主席請吳政次請市長還有我們高鐵政總經理台鐵杜董事長還有我們國家國安會的運輸林主任委運安會林主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4479.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4505.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
好政事我想今天特別針對這些這個鐵道的一個安全的問題我必須要給幾位提醒一下人為的疏失比天災還可怕交通的安全會讓人民家破人亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4507.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4536.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
天災啊無法抵抗但是仍後是不可以原諒我想吳政志你同意我這種說法嗎同意好所以我們今天的主題就是很簡單就是我們鐵道的安全問題那現在鐵道裡面就只有兩個嘛一個台鐵一個高鐵嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4537.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4562.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
那當然今天我們也不是來指責臺鐵杜董事長我在看也剛剛改過從國營改為公司的經營型態那當然其目的就是要讓臺鐵有偷胎放股、基於安全的這些理念 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4563.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4586.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
所以剛才我們立委同仁都已經講得很清楚改為公司不是改一改隨便讓你們亂搞不是是要讓不但要有公司的信義還要有一些比較活潑的這些建設跟不要因為是政府機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4587.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4598.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
跟公司化當然是有所差別所以在這個部分是鼓勵臺鐵公司要有一番作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4599.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4617.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
那所以在這裡我特別要給政事啊當然因為政事管政策但是政策不支持我想臺鐵公司就無法去做大刀叩壺保護人民安全的這些鐵道運輸 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4618.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4637.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
所以我特別就要來請教我也非常重視從頭開始進來立法院我就一直在講監視器監視系統這個問題因為我們大家都知道不管是高鐵也好不管是台鐵也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4638.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4661.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
我們都要穿山夜領的所以這個山坡的監視非常重要可是我調過資料發現到一個問題也就是說台鐵跟高鐵來做比較的話杜董事長我們說實在的台鐵真的要改進雖然 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4663.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4681.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
高鐵他現在經營的就只有350公里來鄭總經理你們現在設置的這些DMC的天然災害警告系統你們設置多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4684.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4701.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
跟委員報告我們有各種的這個天然災害告醒系統譬如說有這個下雨的、有風的、那有地震的我知道我知道這個都包括在內啦是你們啊你們這裡啊我給你資料啦不要看啦你們啊350公里裝有320個的監視器 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4710.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4738.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
但是在這裡我這個要必須要肯定你們啦因為你們的速度快你們從頭開始經營就以高速快速的鐵路在經營所以在這個當然比較嚴謹可是我們台鐵來那個杜董我們所經營的1065公里但是我們的監視器有多少來董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4739.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4753.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
杜董目前我們就是邊坡告警的部分我們叫落實告警是26處對啦 太少了啦所以你看看喔他365公里他裝了320處 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4756.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4778.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
我們1165我們鑽了26處難怪到處土石流的時候到處有什麼災害的時候你們無法去確定所以我在這裡要鼓勵我們杜董我相信在這個部分就要我們吳政次來幫忙這一算多悲一點嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4780.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4800.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
好不好我這政治這個可以不可以去做這個部分這個決定沒問題我想我跟委員報告一下剛提到的台鐵現在26處是已經完成了大概現在還有23處在規劃進行中預計在明年的6月可以完成所以總共會19處但是這剛提到這兩個其實320跟26處兩個基準不太一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4804.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4805.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
臺灣鐵路股份有限公司及國家運輸安全調查委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4820.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4838.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
但是但是吳先生我們說實在的我今天請你上來主要還是在政策你要去支持是預算該編的還是要編啦一定我坦白講啦是台鐵一下子要當大人不要那麼簡單是因為歷史上有他的缺陷在 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4839.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4858.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
所以要馬上站起來當然這個部分真的還是要有政策去幫忙那當然杜董事長他想要做事那政策一定要幫他好 另外一個那個杜董事長我們平交道的死亡還是居高不上 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4861.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4876.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
這個問題出在哪邊來 平交道的改善前台灣省總共有260處請問現在我們花多少錢去改善那改善的成果是怎麼樣來 董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4877.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4902.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
目前我們所有在我們本線上的平交道我們都已經完成了這個障礙物偵測跟告警那所以目前也正在執行中所以如果說平交道有這個異物輕物平交道的範圍的話他是會主動告警司機員讓司機員我知道啦那個董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4903.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4915.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
那個吳政志我特別提供一個資料給你啦你很簡單改善改到9月18號到25號一個禮拜在斗六的地方還死兩個人那怎麼改善啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4916.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4939.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
所以吳正智 這是齁 這個部分是你來管轄所以我要拜託你 要去盯啊 是要去盯啊 不要只有給預算 那其他都沒有進展這樣的話 台鐵就永遠台鐵我還是拜託你 高鐵它的緊結制度的這些設置 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4941.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4952.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
臺鐵要多多學習要多多學習好那最後一個我特別要請教一下極端氣候你們現在如何面對來那個杜董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4954 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4981.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
極端氣候就像我們花蓮那邊花蓮那個地方欸動不動就山崩動不動就土磁流這個怎麼防止是針對極端氣候其實我們有做一個全面性的一個調查跟研究那包括邊坡包括這個溪流我們在這個我都知道啦你如何去防範啦這個我都知道所以有什麼新作法啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4982.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5006.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
對,所以針對這個極端氣候,包括我們在我們軌道位置的範圍內我們要增設阻隔,或者是我們要改善這個橋樑,或者是我們要再加強我們的這個道景杜董事長,華仁的人德站阿,他已經重復再重復,你們改進又不改進,一直沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5007.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5024.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
還有那個我們道安會我們林主委特別要去監督一下我相信你們有很多給他們建議如果真的他們都不改善你要跟吳政志講一下啊要大家去監督啊好不好好最後一個我們台鐵的漲價 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5027.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5045.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
其實沒有品質你漲一塊錢老百姓都不服氣所以我還要建議你們董事會要有公司經營之理念一定要有品質才有價錢所以你不要動不動啊就是說啊我虧損所以我要漲價 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5047.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5076.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
但是問題你沒有品質沒有安全你漲一塊錢我也不服氣啊不是嗎我坐你的車搞不好生命會不保欸所以這個杜董事長我希望你們好好的去討論一下最後我還在問一個問題我們新型的R20名的新車為什麼6月份剛交車10月份就出包來杜董 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5077.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5103.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
這一輛R206其實還沒有交他是在試車的這個情形之下他有一些故障那這個部分我們會責成我們的那個製造商好 針對這個問題因為時間的關係拜託你的那個說明疑問報告給我們交通委員會包括我在內好不好好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5115.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5118.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
謝謝,我們請陳書瑞召委謝謝主席,請主席邀請伍次長還有臺鐵公司杜威董事長還有鐵道局楊局長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5138.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5165.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
市長早安本席在這邊先來關心一下就是我們地方的鄉親期待很久的彰化鐵路高架化的進度我們知道彰化鐵路的高架在地方鄉親因期盼之下在2013年完成了初步的可行性的評估可是這樣一晃眼過了10年了現在已經2024年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5168.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5168.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
事由該務委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5184.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5204.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
我想鐵路高架過去確實它有一段時間有點因素就是基地的關係有點耽擱到原來的可行性是放在花壇但是後來中央縣政府他希望能夠放到大都但是對整個運轉是不利的所以後來再協調後來經過協調以後我們縮小花壇的一個基地的 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5208.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5213.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
臺灣鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5235.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5261.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
是,那就是說有關這個基檢段的選址就是已經確定了嗎?對,這已經確定了所以就是說這樣子有一個明確的進度那對這個軌道就是到底是三軌還是四軌這個部分呢?是不是也可以請次長說明一下?現在是這樣子,我想這個三軌四軌部分往後續再做一個更比較詳細的研修因為如果三軌道當然對用地影響比較少但是對調度還是會有一些些的影響我想我們會兩個去做一個權衡 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5265.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5266.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
所以到現在還沒有很確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5272.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5296.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
現在大概可能會用原則會比較朝向山軌比較朝向山軌來做啦我們希望是到底是山軌還是軌道現在還沒有確定的話這兩個剛講原來就是山軌跟市軌這兩個一直大概對因為會增加這個用地的取得啦那目前大概方向性會比較朝向山軌來走我想這部分我們後續會加速來做啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5298.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5323.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
是,那我們知道就是彰化縣彰化市可以說是一個古城就是在台灣的開發歷史上其實是開發很早所以彰化火車站所在的位置事實上是在一個比較繁華的這個市區這個舊城區所以整個彰化市人口密集所以它要在發展的空間事實上是有限的所以我們也是期待說 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5324.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5339.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
在我們彰化市鐵路高架的這個工程在進行的過程當中我們可以透過這個工程的一個設計讓我們彰化市也可以趁著這次的一個工程彰化市鐵路高架能夠有所 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5339.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5344.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
臺鐵在進行許多車站的更新的時候有這個新北市板橋車站的這個四鐵共購或者是新竹大車站計畫包括嘉義的大車站計畫還有這個高雄的奉承車站這個複合式的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5363.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5366.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
張嬅火車站目前朝向大車站複合式功能目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5376.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5401.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
我想車站高架之後他原來的基地遷到花壇跟二水那一大片的土地空下來我想台鐵一定可以配合完全來配合這個彰化縣政府的他的整個車站大計畫部分去做當然他權宜必須要確保我想這個部分應該沒什麼問題我不曉得那個杜董有沒有比較好那請杜董事長補充一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5404.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5427.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
就是後續那個彰化這個完成高架立體化以後的後續的這個開發規劃我想台鐵公司會充分來配合那當然我們站在公司的立場我們也希望公司能夠有最大的收益是就是杜董事長說充分配合所以主導權是在地方政府是嗎應該是共同來演繹 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5431.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5449.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
共同研議那就這部分目前有跟地方政府有這樣子的一個交流嗎就是目前還沒有還沒有就是針對剛剛講的說我們完成了立體化以後我們承諾出來的我們這個空間目前是還沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5449.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5466.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
是那就是說在立體化之後才來討論的話會不會就是比較晚了不會在立體化之後再來討論應該是同時吧就是說這個階段應該就是要同時就這個功能的需求去做相關的一個規劃規劃面的話會同時進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5470.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5496.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
好就是我們就是希望因為在整個彰化市如果你們有去過應該知道就是說在附近事實上真的就是比較熱鬧的一個街道區所以整個彰化市要在就是有多的空間來發展真的是比較困難所以我們也是期待說這個彰化鐵路高架的時候能夠就目前的這個彰化火車站區包括就是扇形車庫還有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5497.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5500.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
在地方很多鄉親有反應臺鐵的購票APP的購票很不友善因為他們自己操作APP購票的時候會要他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5524.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5539.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
持續的接著下一個操作的一個程序可是很多的長輩他們不會操作到最後呢就是有錄音檔要求他們要輸入相關的這個英文字馬結果他們也聽不懂英文 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5539.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5553.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
所以最後就是在這個購票的程序就會失敗然後就會尋求我們這個火車站的這個同仁來協助所以我覺得說針對這樣子的一個設計希望我們公司這邊要去做一個檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5554.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5574.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
因為讓我們鄉親在購票上能夠比較友善之外也可以減輕我們第一線的我們台鐵同仁的一個工作負擔不然他們面對第一線鄉親的這個就是協助或者是說抱怨我想會增加他們的一些工作壓力是不是杜董事長可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5574.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5593.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
是跟委員報告有關於我們這個訂票我們的驗證主要是要防機器人或其他的程式攻擊那的確對於長輩來講的話他如果不太善於操作的話他就必須要去用這個語音的方式來操作 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5593.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5617.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
那我們現在已經有在進行研究了我們怎麼樣在我們的網頁上定票的網頁上能夠再優化一下這個跟委員報告我們大概完成研究規劃以後我們應該在很快我們會發包來做改善那大概在明年第二季我們應該就可以上來 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5617.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5644.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
OK好謝謝杜董事長那我們今天委員會當然就是針對這個就是交就是有關鐵道安全的一個專題報告那當然我們這個硬體方面的安全很重要那個治安的安全也非常的重要那我們先就就是說目前有傳出說高鐵會員的點數遭到就是被盜用這個部分也顯露出我們的這個治安防護有出現的問題這部分是不是可以請 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5645.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5648.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
我們楊局長可以講一下還是我們鄭總經理要講委員好謝謝委員關心我們這個會員的這個點數在被倒了這個問題那事實上這個問題是主要是我們公司在主動發現我們的系統上那麼的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5670.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5688.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
委員的點數有被轉讓到一些人頭帳戶去兌換禮券這部分的話我們已經跟警方來告發主要是因為我們發現系統上有一種所謂的壯庫供給的部分就是說有一些旅客 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5689.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5719.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
有把他的帳號跟他的密碼那有一群人就用著在不同的系統包括高鐵公司包括PC Home那麼去找然後去尋求去找一些人頭然後來去用這個東西那這一部分的話我就覺得這一部分我們現在針對這個問題我們採取的方式就是說我們第一個我們在會跟會員主要你的這個會員資料裡面有這個登錄那麼我們就會用主動的email來告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5719.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5748.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
然後當然你就會知道這個我是不是被盜用了那同時我們要防範的話我們還做了另外一個工作很重要就是說我們在年底前用雙重驗證除了說跟旅客確認這個是你的號碼你的帳密密碼以外我們會再用one time password然後來確認這個還是你的那這樣的話我們能夠把這個會員被盜的這個部分完全解除 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5749.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5765.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
但是我要跟各位報告就是說跟委員報告就是說這在系統上並沒有外洩的這個問題好 謝謝委員那就是說有發生這樣子的一個會員點數被盜了那當然就是有顯露出我們治安 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5765.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5765.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
好,謝謝莊委 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5813.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5835.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
好,接下來邀請林俊憲委員質詢。好,本席邀請我們交通部五次長、鐵道局楊局長﹖請楊局長﹖還有我們台鐵的杜董事長﹖請杜薇董事長﹖還有我們高鐵的鄭總經理﹖請鄭總經理 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5840.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5856.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
委員好 次長好 次長我們今天來關心鐵道的安全台灣大概一個最危險的就是平交道我先請教杜局長我們台鐵為了改善鐵道的安全在2021年 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5862.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5888.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
我們3月決標了一個1424個平交道的遮斷機是 對不對號稱是智慧型的平交道遮斷機最先進的1424個嘛照理講應該要完成了嘛跟委員報告現在聽說完成驗收的只有3成沒有沒有報告委員現在是怎樣這個案子我們的合約的規定是在明年的7月 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5889.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5903.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
現在正在加緊的建置中那目前已經有做的聽說可以通過驗收的只有30%目前已經裝上去裝上去就是在使用的接近400具你有通過驗收嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5904.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5919.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
沒有,這個,這不是驗收這個是裝上去他就再使用了對,可以用可以用嗎?你不驗收你怎麼知道可不可以用?不是驗收是我們有去驗證他的功能都確保了才能有達到安全嗎?有 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5920.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5943.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
那這1424個裝上去希望可以改善我們平交道的一個建築安全是 對不對因為這是臺鐵第一次啊臺鐵自己寫規格全機國產化的對要全面更新鐵道這段機對這是國產化的這是國產化另外我想請教那臺南的鐵路地下化聽說要再延期 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5945.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5952.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
臺南鐵路地下化工程會延宕主要是因為挖出了所謂的那個遺跡 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5953.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5981.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
就是有一些地下的歷史文物是不是這樣又挖出了古蹟對跟我們報告確實這個臺南鐵路地下化受了影響其中一大部分是所謂的移植的關係就是文質的關係那現在已經處理差不多現在我們的後年就是在115年我們確定一定可以來通車這我想我們會掌握沒有問題臺南鐵路地下化工程車廠應該也很熟是 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5983.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6007.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
那因為挖出了大概20幾個遺址,遺跡啦,古跡啦,對不對?對那台南今年建成400年啦,因為地下隨便挖都會有古跡啦那遇到了我們就是解決嘛,只是希望這個速度效率上那現在因為挖出了古跡而停工多久啊?工期停工 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6009.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6035.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
跟委員報告我們整個沿線總共挖出來20處每一個地方受影響的程度不同最長的是到26個月26個月兩年停工兩年那現在全部復工了嗎?都可以復工了嗎?我們在8月底已經全數處理完畢最主要是東門路橋這個前後兩側那這個地方已經處理完畢然後現在全數的在進行工程的開發當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6036.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6056.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
也就是說挖出20處的遺址、古蹟等等,現在到8月處理完畢,現在復工了嗎?全面復工了,對不對?是的那因為你這樣子停工,應該有的停兩年,那也造成工程經費啊,因為計畫要修正啦,工程經費會大增啊我聽說你們現在預估經費會增加76億多,這部分有確定嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6059.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6079.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
是的,我們已經報山修計畫到行政院在今年7月的時候現在正在根據國安會意見修正當中經費有問題嗎?目前看起來應該經費並沒有重大問題所以會總經費由336億,臺南市的鐵路地下化市區的鐵路地下化工程由336億可能會增加到413億是的,413億 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6083.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6083.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
全線要到119 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6112.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6113.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
臺灣鐵路股份有限公司及國家運輸安全調查委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6127.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6145.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
希望能夠儘速、儘速能夠現在已經全線復工了希望能夠儘速完成這個臺南鐵路地交化對臺南的市區的整體發展以及交通安全這個是非常重要的但除了這個以外我們後面還有永康的鐵路地交化的延伸是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6146.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6150.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
另外還有一個就是新式的鐵路高架化這個部分目前呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6166.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6181.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
這個現在還在臺南市政府還沒有報到交通部這邊來那這個經費在交通部也已經同意了同意要執行這個計畫嘛臺南市政府送上來沒有還沒有我們希望臺南市政府也盡快把這個計畫修正確定後能夠送上來 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6181.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6201.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
所以你如果鐵路地下化從台南市區然後到永康再繼續延伸整個永康全線也鐵路地下化然後到新市它就開始高價了讓你市區永康和新市都不會再有鐵路平交道了也不會再有什麼路橋或地下寒凍等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6202.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6225.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
對於交通的改善,尤其是南科,你知道南科就在永康路的地方,就在新市,這也會有很大的改善。另外就是仁德,仁德的立體鐵路高架,這個地方也爭取多年,市政府應該也在做可能性評估,就是仁德的鐵路高架,還有上化車站的改建, |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6227.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6252.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
至於上化未來的鐵路就是說所謂的鐵路整體高架這可能是另外一個計畫但是說上化火車站因為現在前後站沒有路可以通了大家知道這南科全世界最重要的半導體生產基地上化火車站前後站沒有路了只能走地下道這個地方趕快改建好不好因為時間的關係請教一下高鐵的政總經理 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6255.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6260.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
委員好總經理大家知道臺南這幾年快速發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6262.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6289.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
尤其臺南除了南科以外現在包括沙崙科學園區幾乎很多我們國家重要的研究單位都進駐在這個地方那明天總統也會到沙崙去主持中研院南部分院的正式開幕現在AI生態園區也在陽明交大什麼綠能研究單位幾乎國家最重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6290.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6316.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
單位都進入在這裡那本期我們也爭取到了蘇華埠蘇華埠的治安院蘇華埠的社會產業發展署也會設在沙崙所以現在全台灣的車站高鐵站成長率最高的就台南站近站成長率全國第二只輸給南港但初站就是目的地是台南站的成長率也是全國最高 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6318.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6344.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
總經理知道這個數字吧?確實是有很大幅的成長很多人都到台南去了那你台南站的進出現在原來的設計我相信已經遠遠超乎你當時設計的這個站體了所以現在每次那個旅客到站進出都要排隊排很長因為你所有的上下月台只有一個小小的守護地 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6345.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6363.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
我不知道高鐵未來有沒有提早因應的一個規劃你像台中高鐵站有4個守護梯上下台南高鐵站只有小小一個可能當時你當年高鐵通車的時候也沒有把台南站當作什麼重點你知道吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6365.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6389.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
當年台南高鐵站設在什麼地方各位知道吧沙崙沙崙旁邊就是台南監獄啊什麼地方會設監獄就那個屏蔽道不能再屏蔽的地方才會設監獄高鐵站就設在旁邊啊但是也因為這樣啊讓現在台南站有高鐵有一個很大的發展腹地就是附近的土地非常非常大造成現在反而當時的 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6392.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6404.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
很偏僻的一個設置的取點得到地點現在反而造成後來有一個發展的大空間但現在競速站人口這麼多啦請問臺南高鐵站未來高鐵公司有沒有什麼樣的因應計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6405.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6432.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
委員報告確實我們人成長很多那事實上我們也因為這樣的需要我們在班次方面所以一直在增加尤其是這個所謂台南的直達車這部分我們就做了很多的增班對那至於手扶梯這個部分的話以目前來講確實在尖峰時代是比較擁擠不過目前看來還是可以用但是如果委員有這樣的一個建議的話我想我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6433.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6435.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
我們接下來邀請魯明哲召委諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6472.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6472.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
趙偉豪 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6491.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6509.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
這個其實因為正好這個上一屆立委的時候到這一屆有全程經歷到我們台鐵整個公司化的過程那我感覺就是公司化過程除了改變財政營運當時為主要的一個目標其實大家都說 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6510.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6531.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
要成立公司當時的小英總統說成立台鐵公司來改善行車安全那杜董事長也宣誓嘛安全安全安全安全那安全是不是公司化帶的你帶走了很多東西業務你帶走了有些留在交通部那到底的現在情況是怎麼樣首先來看看我們台鐵這個大體檢大體檢體檢都會做完嗎你們體檢做完沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6538.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6561.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
你們大體檢做完沒有因為這是從普悠瑪事件2018年10月份成立的政府宣誓的大體檢那體檢現在做完沒有因為你宣布還沒做完嘛現在還有安全改革17項沒有做完組織改革、營運改革總共兩項現在只有19項還沒有解除列管那可是在這個大體檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6564.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6582.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
2018年成立那時候是很感人的第一次院級的院級的政務政委來帶領跨部會然後成立這個85天之後就變成小體檢中體檢中體檢就丟給你們台鐵那時候台鐵還在交通部 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6583.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6607.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
現在今年1月1號你們就帶著走了由台鐵公司自己自己自己去成立那我是覺得你們現在還沒有解除列管因為很多是安全改革的這個部分董事長你說一下那個急迫性怎麼樣是跟委員報告其實不是這個是還沒有獲得交通部這個解除列管不是說沒有做 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6607.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6623.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
那我們現在所有144項總體檢的一個改善事項我們都有在推動那其中就有三項是屬於中長程的我們還在持續努力其他的我們都已經提報給交通部了 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6624.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6650.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
那這個其中就是這邊講的19項部裡面認為我們提供的這個資料或者是事證還不完全所以現在還在補充剛好好 次長因為要解除列管還是要送到我們交通部嘛對那交通部我覺得這個軌道的部分你是專家啦那這個還沒有解除列管的話就簡單你送的文件或者你改善措施沒有受到你們完整的認可嘛所以還沒有解除列管 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6650.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6677.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
那我想請教一下這個因為過去您是局長嘛 鐵道局局長現在接次長齁那你覺得對於解 144項解除列管120幾項喔也是不錯嘛解除列管是不是真的解決啦解除列管是不是解決問題啦就請教一下你覺得呢當然不是說做完以後解除就沒有問題齁後續所以在鐵道局在監理方面部分他一直 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6678.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6699.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
針對這些解除的過去曾經被列管的案件還做一些檢查重複的再去看一下有沒有再辦我想不是說我們解除以後就不再管了這些是因為我們認為他做了講得不夠清楚或做了沒有一個完整的具體的作為出來所以我們不同意他解除列管 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6699.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6715.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
所以我是覺得很多民眾也認為啦體檢總是要有一個期間2018年到現在整整10月20、20幾號就快6年滿6年了你的體檢還沒做完我也覺得真的交通部要好好下來督導一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6716.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6735.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
提點做好了比如說剛剛好多委員講過的這個安全管理系統你們導入嘛你們也報告好幾次那導入半天那今年我們這個應該去年年底嘛然後去請教請教有媒體去請教你們的員工啦抽冊啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6737.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6757.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
有蠻多對於什麼是SMS都搞不太清楚我覺得以前在企業搞ISO9000每一個員工都很重要不是他能夠在這個系統上面12大指標他能做什麼而是他必須知道他不要去犯錯那個他可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6758.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6760.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
明日號事件是真的還假的? |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6776.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6802.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
報告委員是真的是真的這個是跟委員報告這個是因為我們我們這個負責編組的我們的車號的同仁他電報看錯所以他在掛車廂的時候他漏掛了一截好這個林主委運安會林主委這個聽起來這個感覺小事不小心看錯報告了 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6803.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6828.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
你知道嗎 有點感覺 唉呦 看錯報告了 原來要飛747啊 我怎麼開了737來了 客人不夠在我覺得這個是一個 你覺得這是大事還是小事啊 林主委你是運安會嘛 你覺得這一件事情也與對於運輸安全實質的影響並沒有 沒有看到 可是員工的態度 或者員工訓練上面 你看出什麼問題來 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6830.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6831.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
市長,這個火車開出去了,不小心少掛一截 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6854.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6882.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
然後呢五星級的明日號一萬多才可以旅遊一趟真的五星級啊但是我們的表現啊是零星級的低級的錯誤真的很低級的錯誤那個杜董事長請問一下掃掛是哪一節是乘客艙還是沙發沒帶出去客廳艙還是還是那個吧台乘客艙客艙嘛所以說客人 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6884.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6896.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
沒有座位坐那等於說他們站著跑了幾站是吧到南港才把家掛出去對後來後來我們有做補救措施啦在南港把這個車廂再把他掛上然後才啟程 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6897.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6922.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
因為我覺得這個真的是很離譜啊我跟你講聽起來好笑然後但是覺得真的很低級的錯誤但是這種錯誤坦白講你知道嗎我牽了一隻牛出去吃草回家的時候我只是忘了帶牛回來那我覺得很低級啊發生什麼事情這麼大的一件事情居然會有這樣的一個情況那就請教一下這我看到兩大問題啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6923.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6930.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
第一大問題是到底多少人會參與這個每一天點車廂、掛車廂、數車廂這樣的工作第一個員工本身看單子 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6936.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6963.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
第二個檢察人司機員這是你們工會說的司機員我要開我普悠瑪我不要開到貨車啊要看一下到底到位沒有對不對第三個是列車長啊對不對列車長、司機員這麼多人第一個都失靈還有一些你SMS或者其他的導入、書面、黑板要寫一定要給別人看確認 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6965.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6983.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
到底發生什麼事你們原本設計這麼多的一個檢查措施結果列車長也沒搞沒有double check然後司機員也就這樣開走了所以我覺得這是一件很危險的一件事你現有的檢查制度出事了市長你覺得你說幹對 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6985.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7011.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
我今天很抱歉我真的很抱歉你剛聽說啊對我今天才知道這個事情那這個我想我確實剛聽起來感覺是不可思議啦那這個部分我想我們會再請那個台鐵針對剛講他整個的標準作業程序再來檢視看到底是哪一個環境錯了或是要再增加double check的一個功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7011.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7026.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
我跟你講現在第二個問題你剛剛講就是神經末梢不是末梢這也不是末梢了就整個鈍掉了你知道嗎昨天媒體在跟你講前天的事台鐵第一時間回覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7027.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7044.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
有沒有這件事我來查證我聽了這是第二個恐怖的事情就是說你double check現場檢查的機制居然沒有辦法這個事情確實做好第二個呢出問題了不管大事小事你居然沒有積極的回報的一個制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7045.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7046.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
跟委員報告 我知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7073.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7085.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
而且當下我們查證跟委員報告剛剛委員講的這一個疏失不是列車長或者是司機員我剛剛跟委員報告是我們的車號還有我們的這個吊車場的主管要負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7090.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7107.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
好那其他人都不用沒有人double check就掛錯就錯了你們未來機制會不會改變啊這個玩笑不要開啦是是是跟委員報告齁這個的確齁我們的double check跟整個機制齁我們會充分的檢討以後不發生這種事 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7109.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7136.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
這個因為我是覺得真的非常非常離譜而且那種五星級的明日日號結果明日日號真的是明天明天再來今天沒有今天車忘記掛了這個東西我是覺得真的是不行而且你們反應的機制像這種不光是這個事件的問題新聞性蠻大的交通部不知道我覺得你們距離公司化之後距離交通部真的是越來越遠這個最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7139.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7160.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
臺鐵的一個事故的一個比例大家期待的一個安全我們看到那個數字跟去年同期1到7月的比較總事故可能是有些是小的事故成長40%行車的異常成長也有40%重大事故從去年同期的0變成4你有什麼說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7162.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7182.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
各位報告這一個我們1到7月的包括事故還有這個異常的事件的數量的確有增加但是這有三個主要原因第一個就是今年的天災比較嚴重第二個就是我們車廂老舊我們的努力還不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7183.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7211.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
那第三個就是我們現在在推安全文化所以我們今年開始公司我們對於事故事件我們想列的這個項目有別於以往我們用重研的這個角度來列這個事故事件所以有多列好我最後再說不光是交通部我看全民包括所有委員都在關心公司化之後到底做了什麼改變我們希望你們要自力自強謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7213.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7213.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
黃建豪委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7234.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7242.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
好 謝謝主席 主席我們先請五次長跟我們高鐵公司政總經理請五次長還有政總經理委員好來 次長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7250.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7273.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
市長跟總經理我們首先要先提到上週這個高鐵雲林站國慶煙火疏散的問題我想這真的是一個非常誇張的一個事件我想問一下這個總經理過去高鐵有沒有輸運過這麼多人潮的經驗我們有這麼多的人潮的經驗但是在瞬間裡面呢一下子湧進三四千人這是第一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7275.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7302.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
我跟總經理說明我覺得這個事情是這樣因為我看了新聞看這個圖片的時間是9點04分但你們事後新聞稿說高鐵公司在8點45分就啟動了人潮管制但是我想過了20分鐘之後還是這個人潮那8點45分新聞稿8點45分說啟動人潮管制那晚上9點50分也就是一小時後就解除了相關管制這個人潮進入綠燈就表示說這個人潮的速度 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7303.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7311.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
當你們啟動管制你們表定是8點45到9點一小時後他就能夠解除表示他的人氣沒有多到這麼誇張嘛是一開始的管制有問題吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7313.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7335.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
跟委員報告那最主要是為什麼在那個時間裡面呢這麼多人都沒有進來因為我們在8點31分以後啊那麼到這個到一到9點12分才有車子所以這時候人潮就一直在進來那事實上我們在這次的這個煙火啊在散了以後啊煙火以後其實客人在8點20啊就 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7337.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7339.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
換句話說旅客就不需要一個一個驗票就讓旅客可以進去一直走 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7365.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7383.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
總經理這個是一次的教訓我想未來高鐵周邊不會只有這一次活動當然因為這次是雲林可能過去它的人潮沒這麼多我們看後續我們看之前去年網友有看到就是台中站我想台中每一次的週末每一次的連假像去年的這個是中秋連假 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7384.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7405.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
他排隊排到一路排到停車場他就啟動人潮管制啊他很早就啟動了因為他就是預期會有這麼多人嘛那像國慶業火也知道嘛國慶業火號稱會有30萬40幾萬人到現場所以高鐵公司理論上你也會清楚說當天就有這麼多人要離開那個地方所以我們希望經過這一次教訓未來啊我也拜託我們次長要督導一下就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7405.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7406.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
臺灣鐵路股份有限公司及國家運輸安全調查委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7425.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7442.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
是,我想這一次最主要是因為雲林的這個站區裡那個我們的車站裡面的空間太小了那我們啟動聯潮管制以後我們原則上是把800個人放在我們的月台上面然後在川塘省護衛區裡面大概有500個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7442.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7460.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
那剩下的這個人的話就整在我們的閘門以外了那大概有700個人換句話說我們的站體裡面車站裡面大概整有2000人所以到時候有3000多人到的時候我們就把這1000多人放在我們的這個站外但是站外那邊的話因為後面的人就一直進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7461.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7478.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
還好我們那時候就這個鐵警啊協助我們不要讓他進去所以站位也要管制啦因為我看警察也很辛苦嘛但是警察的這個機制也是比較晚啟動啦都是已經人潮已經擠到不行他們才進來管制所以還是希望說高鐵公司你們這個算是獲利很好不能只顧賺錢啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7479.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7497.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
因為大家都希望說要離開當然坐高鐵最方便嘛但是你就像雲林這一次我們辦所謂的國慶國慶煙火為什麼會辦在高鐵這個特定計畫局也是看上說這樣子輸入比較快大眾運輸在那邊輸入比較快所以我希望說這高鐵公司第一個你們是這個官方的第二個你有社會企業責任嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7498.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7503.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
未來你們在各戰區尤其在面臨到大型廉價大型活動的時候是不是這個機制要有一個檢討報告出來?你們這次有做檢討報告嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7522.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7545.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
我想這個委員謝謝你指導那事實上我要跟您報告就是說我們在這短短時間裡面我們開了12班12個加班12個這個車子那載運的大概有1萬人少所以呢這個整個機制是有的那只是說在短時間裡面人進來那所以我們就必須要把這個人放在這個站如果放到裡面以後怎麼辦以後會再次發生這類似的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7547.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7567.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
我認同你們的確開了加班車把漁業台上的人運走這沒問題但我的問題是那以後於瞬間有這麼多人潮的時候各站有沒有一個作業流程能夠去管制或怎麼樣什麼時候來啟動什麼時候請警察來協助什麼時候啟動這相關管制你們有相關的檢討嗎還是過了就算了以後再看情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7567.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7593.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
事實上我們當然會有檢討那事實上我們在這次裡面呢我們都有很完整的SOP譬如說我們支援的人力呢大概有100人以上那我們在各個地方在做這個部分有些已經買票了那就是安排他進來沒有買票了我們安排他進來那是後來的事情一開始就沒有嘛一開始就是有買票的、自由坐的、有票的全部都擠在門外有的人進得來有的人進不來我現在問的問題是說以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7595.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7620.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
類似這樣的問題,你們的機制有檢討報告嗎?還是看著辦?不是看著辦,我們事實上,我們就原有的這個這個機制啊,我們再強化它,來補強它我們希望說能夠,因為再更及時,跟這個鐵井的這邊的這個配合啊,我們會更及時好啦,總經理謝謝,總經理先請回座喔,市長這未來齁,真的不能再發生類似的這個事情啦,因為這次我想這是好月子 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7621.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7643.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
我是跟委員報告一下齁剛剛提到的這個其實我們要求高鐵公司要做檢討包括剛剛提到的站外的部分的動線我想這非常重要第二個剛剛也提到一個重點他9點12分才有8點多大概有人就散場跑去了所以這個駕開班車的那個時間點尤其可以再早一點假設啦我今天講我們回過頭來這個案子來講假設我8點50駕開一班車 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7649.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7649.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
臺鐵杜董上來 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7685.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7706.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
委員好董事長剛好今天討論的是我們鐵道安全那剛好上禮拜一個新的判決普悠瑪事故臺鐵跟司機各負50%的這個責任嘛但是我們看到議審的判決裡面當然是最新的判決說各負50%現在認定說司機有相關責任但是在議審的時候看到這個議審裡面提到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7708.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7735.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
這個駕駛員多次跟調度員、檢察員聯絡那發現通訊設備品質不良、人員裝不足那臺鐵內部的橫向聯繫直接指揮系統混亂臺鐵本身是組織失靈、系統失靈這是一審判決書提的那他二審裡面後面也覺得說駕駛員、駕駛員責任但是我們要先問的我們只能針對結構性問題討論嘛一審提到的這部分指揮系統混亂、橫向聯繫失靈這部分臺鐵公司也檢討了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7735.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7761.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
有,各位委員報告,這個事故發生以後我們有檢討,然後有做改進檢討的結論是什麼?就很多項啦,包括我們對於這個車上我們這個ATP的一個監視還有就是互相聯絡的方式還有就是我們車子,我們主風棒那個主音,主風棒的一個改善這個我們都有做這個檢討改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7763.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7771.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
我們這樣講當然不希望再發生事故那只是未來所以我們以後未來台鐵的駕駛他不用去負擔這個風險了是不是就是說他當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7773.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7797.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
這一次這個普悠瑪事故當時發生的時候是因為駕駛員他根本找不到他到底怎麼辦沒有人跟他講他怎麼辦他當然去做了一些動作所以導致他現在要負50%的責任我跟你說今天台鐵的駕駛員他未來是要承擔還要不要承擔這種系統性的風險還是你可以保證說未來我們台鐵駕駛員在開車的時候他去尋求管制去尋求資源的時候你們的橫向零星是沒問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7798.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7826.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
各位也知道這有兩部分我們一般來講執行我們這個列車乘務駕駛的他有他的規章制度這個他一定要遵守不像這一次我們普悠瑪似乎很不幸我們司機員沒有遵守他的沒有遵照他的規章制度他沒遵守現在法院判他50%另外50%公司的責任嘛對對對公司的責任就是第二部分第二部分的話現在我們進行的改善我們都應該算是已經都完成到位了 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7826.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7841.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
所以你可以保證說以後駕駛員在列車行駛過程中要求救的時候、要求助的時候不會再發生上這次的事情嗎?現在我們行控處都有新的SOP可以給他充分的資源因為為什麼要提到這個提到就要講到下面這一張啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7843.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7859.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
這個董事長這個一上來之後當然你們台鐵的管理層這個調薪成功但基層待遇沒有特別的這個影響沒有改變啦低薪改善要再等等啦所以我想這個為什麼因為我覺得這對基層員工來講是一個很大的這個影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7860.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7876.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
當然你們說這是為對標所謂國營事業其他國營事業但是我們看到其他都是一樣都是國營事業起薪來講這個台鐵相對來講他的起薪就是比較低那他又要負擔這麼他如果又要負擔這麼大的風險那我們也看到這兩天的新聞而已其他國營事業招考的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7878.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7897.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
錄取率非常非常低但我們台鐵的錄取率反而招考的人數反而不足所以這是一連串的結構問題我不知道台鐵公司現在公司化之後董事長你也調薪了那你對於這樣的底薪這種起薪這麼低面對的風險這麼高要怎麼辦後續我們再招考重新招考的話難道台鐵的這個員工的人數就能夠補滿嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7899.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7918.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
各位委員報告其實我們國營事業我們的薪水都是依照我們的規定、規矩來的那的確我們台鐵公司現在尤其是基層員工我們的薪水不如某些其他國營事業所以我們現在公司我們一定要 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7919.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7920.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
董事長最後一句話因為時間也到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7936.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7960.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
我也坦誠的覺得說你們的確應該要增加營業收入不管你在後面要調票價或是說你要做這個土地開發但是我們希望這個錢這個資金是能夠回饋到基層員工嘛你不要說真的不要管理層調薪水啦你的基層如果沒調薪水你的人你就一定不足人不足大家就想走走了之後經驗傳承出現問題那就很容易出現一連串結構性的問題嘛所以董事長你可以承諾說未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7961.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7962.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
接下來邀請廖先祥委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7988.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7991.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
謝謝主席,那有請我們的五次長跟我們的台鐵的董事長杜董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8010.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8020.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
國營好你好我延續著剛剛的黃建豪委員的提問同樣身為我們交通部國營事業臺鐵新進的從業人員起薪只有34221塊比不上我們中華郵政的41750元也更落後我們港務公司的47000多元 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8029.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8054.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
但是我們也可以看到的是現在台鐵從業人員要面臨的是很辛苦的工作環境以及高風險甚至裝備都很欠缺的情況那我想要請問一下公司化後我們基層的工薪資我們基層員工的薪資漲了多少請問一下我們的杜董事長各位報告我們基層員工有分兩塊有一塊是我們的留任人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8055.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8057.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
所以也就是說原本有保障的是沒漲嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8082.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8106.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
那現在新的新的你們調高的那個心理管理要點的話大概是對心理管理要點是我們從業人員將來這個續薪的依據啦那基本上跟我們這個留任人員是約略相當的但是但是他可以他有機會可以領取4.4個月的我們的考成獎金跟績效獎金董事長我想請問你們高成長了多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8107.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8135.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
我們高層包括我跟總經理還有我們所有員工在內我們都是依據我們國營事業的敘心的我知道你說辦法是有但是你漲了多少嘛40%嘛對不對可是我們基層的卻沒有漲那你想在這樣子的帶領之下基層沒有先漲高層先漲了那這樣子會不會影響基層的時期這是第一件事情沒關係我知道這是觀感問題這是領導觀感問題第二件事情就是想要請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8136.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8137.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
呃,我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8151.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8176.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
基層剛提到他是依照那個董事長總經理他們管理基層大概依照國營事業去做那現在剛針對於基層也就是所謂從業人員的部分就另外一塊的部分他針對他的底薪還有他的專業的屬性這些的職務的一個特性他就評定那他其實還有一些所謂的那市長就是我其實這邊就是只要未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8176.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8177.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
臺鐵未滿10年年資的員工常年在五城上下徘徊 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8205.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8221.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
好那其中又以移花東段最嚴重最高甚至來到56%所以不斷有這種資深的員工離職也會這樣趨勢在公司化之後有沒有再加重那要怎麼確保行車安全因為你的資深的都留不住啊薪資待遇不好啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8223.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8244.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
我想這部分主要大概剛剛董事長提到他在從這個營業收入的部分去增加那增加以後營業之後我想這個時候就是一個加薪的一個時機所以我要講的就是現在人員年資過短導致經驗無法傳承的工作環境自然影響到事故發生也是有這個影響的和運輸安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8245.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8258.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
那以運安會的這個鐵道安全報告中也顯示臺灣的平交道事故對比照統計定義相同的日本的JR居然長期高於日本的兩倍那你們認為有沒有改進的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8260.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8282.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
評價到的部分確實因為它是一個開放性的真的是有時候其實我們碰到有一些就是不遵守那些交通規則就硬要進去已經警示燈了炸人一下來他還是硬要闖過去這當然所以我們這個要在我們的電路計畫裡面有提到一些如果自由太久的兩三秒鐘的部分他會警示 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8283.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8309.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
我講這部分我們會再來進行對 次長我覺得是這樣當然你可以講出很多理由甚至怪這些人不看這個交通耗資但是實際的數字就是這樣所以我們希望次長我想你也覺得應該要改變所以我們希望可以實質的去討論如何真的改善在未來的數字可以下降那另外我也想要問一下我們可以看到整體台鐵的事件高居不下大概都是六七百件左右那我想要請問一下部長112年到底是幾件 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8313.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8340.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
一百一十二年的一百一十二年到底是幾件這裡一百一百零八年七百一十五件嘛一百零九年六百三十二件一百一十年七百零二件嘛一百一十一年六百六十一件那一百一十二年到底是幾件因為我剛剛有看到委員有寫但是我想要問說在台鐵公報年報上居然在一百一十二年刪除了此欄所以為什麼會這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8342.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8349.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
那我上網去查大概就只有分月報表有那為什麼年報沒有是有不想要讓大家看清楚這個數字嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8351.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8375.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
跟委員報告,我們沒有什麼好隱瞞的對,那這裡是疏漏嗎?不公開數字這是不是容我回去查一下跟委員報告好不好好,那請查完之後再跟我們講為什麼年報沒有我們沒有要隱瞞是,所以我只是提供這個給你看我相信這平坦講過去幾年也都公佈那為什麼112年沒有另外準點率的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8376.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8405.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
我們前任交通部長李孟彥雖然他的任期不長但是他有一項宣示就是說在台鐵今年一月轉型國營公司之後並且進行組織調整就是簡單來講他就是希望效率大大提高讓我們台鐵的準點率能夠從95%漲到97%我想請問這個目標是不是依然沒有改變目標沒有改變不過也要跟委員老實的報告因為今年的天災比較多那我們的準點率是有受到影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8406.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8421.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
是這部分呢我想當然是努力達成那不要亂開支票不過我想要講一件事情我們可以發現所謂的95%的準點率是指單一的這個列車抵達終點站的時候那實際抵達時間如果在表定的時間的一定範圍內就可以說為準點了那 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8423.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8450.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
對吧那換句話說中途停靠各站究竟是提早或者是延誤多久都不在這個所論上面那這就會造成民眾的體感或者印象上怎麼與統計數字有這麼大的差異那我想要講前面97%你們說統計的目標依然要努力的達成但是未來能不能夠把各站的統計點這各站點的統計數據也都納入參考這樣才可以知道真正的每一站你的準點率是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8452.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8467.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
是不是跟委員報告其實我們這個準點率是全應該是講說全國一致性的啦全國一致性的一個做法那你現在一致性是從出發點到就是末端點嗎但是我意思是說你中間的這個這個站點呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8468.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8494.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
因為計算方式是一樣跟委員報告計算方式一樣但是我們台鐵公司我們願意就剛剛委員講的方式我們也會去做統計然後我們來做作為我們改進的一個參考是啊因為這是證實民眾的感受嘛我也不是所有都在起點做末端下車啦中間我是臺中會上車會坐到哪裡這個部分應該也是要列入統計和參考是是是好謝謝謝謝好謝謝委員謝謝廖偉強委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8502.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8504.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
謝謝主席,我們有請我們交通部吳政次跟我們臺鐵公司杜董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8531.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8533.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
請吳次長還有杜威董事長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8539.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8564.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
市長早 董事長早那我想今天我們交通委員會針對台鐵的一個鐵道安全的部分我想前面幾位委員都提了很多的問題那本席這邊還是要再一次強調這個整個台鐵過去這個整個從以前台鐵局到現在改制到台鐵公司之後我想包含我們相關的部會也好包含我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8565.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8592.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
所有很多的社會都對於台鐵公司有很高的期待希望我們能夠藉由這一次改制能夠脫胎換骨但是我們現在看到不但現在我們的現任人員難以留任新人招考的狀況更是不理想像今年2月我們公司招考了936名的新進人員結果只有錄取了700多位尤其在電力、電務、電機這些專業人力的上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8595.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8614.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
出現不是不足的錄取就是零錄取的一些狀況那在薪資結構方面除了原本的薪資結構遠遠不如我們高鐵之外甚至連這個小夜勤的加班費高鐵從10月份開始申請一個人275塊三次發放但我們台鐵夜點費只有120塊這個不到一半然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8622.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8644.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
採請的狀況也不云不如人那尤其我們現在臺鐵公司的同仁有時候遇到這些刮風下雨還要冒著生命危險來搶救那包含我們的車長的一個備勤津貼、靈軌作業人員一些危險津貼跟這個第一線的這個主管津貼也許久未來調整那我想請教一下我們的次長跟董事長針對這樣子的一個薪資結構怎麼樣來做有效的調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8648.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8665.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
避免我們的這個競爭力能夠落後所以我簡單先說明然後再請杜董說比較細節的部分我想針對於臺鐵創業人員的這個薪資的部分除了基本薪資的考量以外還要考慮到他的職務的特性 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8666.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8686.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
還有他的專業的屬性去做一些評定的所謂的這樣的薪資當然還有一些所謂的包括他們現在祭出的記憶獎金的部分比如說你三節出勤我還會再給你記憶獎金那危險津貼其實也有我想這部分大概會努力去做那當然最重要的是要創造這個台鐵的營收 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8688.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8706.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
把他增加以後,他的有營餘,這樣的話他有辦法把營餘回饋到員工裡面來對,市長,這個我們都認同啦,但是客氣我們臺鐵自己的產業工會最近也發起這個全島連署,要求要加薪,這個事情董事長怎麼看這件事情? |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8707.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8731.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
是 我想剛剛市長也有跟委員說明就是我們這邊一定要先增加我們的課員就是我們本業的收入還有就是善用資產就是我們副業的收入必須要讓我們的營運收入來提升這樣子我們才有辦法回饋到這個我們整個這個待遇調整的一個項目上去 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8733.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8753.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
董事長這一點因為我們的人員的不足加上相關的調度的一個產生很大的一個問題所以我記得上一會期本席也有特別提過我們雖然現在我們的機場設在我們潮州西部幹線但是屏東的鄉親似乎沒有享受到這樣子一個便捷的交通措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8753.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8775.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
像我們的班次來講,屏東縣的區間車的班次有時候甚至要等到2個小時才有一班車這個非常離譜啦這個機場設在我們屏東結果我們卻不能享受這樣的一個優質的一個交通服務這部分是不是上一次會期的時候會有要求我們台鐵公司來做檢討那不曉得這個後續的處理狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8777.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8805.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
各位委員報告這個部分大概有兩個項目第一個就是我們有去檢視我們潮州以北一直到高雄台南地區這個班次應該是夠應該是夠那現在重點是潮州以南那這一段的確這個剛剛講Headway比較大那這個部分我們在今年6月的時候我們有增加開兩班車來縮減它的Headway |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8807.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8828.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
但是可能還不太夠了那我們現在的想法是說因為我們增開班次車上每一班車大概也就是三十幾位旅客啦我們有去看那我們現在的想法是說去看一下真正我們這一個區段的旅客他需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8829.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8829.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
比較密集的時間帶 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8859.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8880.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
好那另外我想大家關心的臺鐵票價的一個調漲問題那當然對於這個整個成本的考量也好還有我們整個營運的成本考量也好我想臺鐵目前針對這樣的有聽說已經有在董事會有做討論那目前有沒有進一步的一個進度可以跟國人說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8881.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8897.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
這個委員報告我們其實上一次第8次董事會已經有提報一個合理化的方案但是董事會認為不周延有退回經理部門再做更進一步比較周延的研究現在還在進行中 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8898.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8923.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
對,所以針對所謂的一個短程、中程、長程的一個票價的部分,是不是我們應該台鐵要提出一個比較有競爭性的一個方案?是,是,因為是要比較周圍對啊,你跟高鐵比好像也有點,跟這個捷運系統比好像也比不上,變成這個都不討好營運上也出現很大的問題,是不是應該做一個比較神聖的一個考量?是,這個是我們要努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8925.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8940.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
那請問一下次長針對台鐵這個票票價如果確定要調漲之後是不是應該針對不同的路線跟服務的等級要做一些靈活的一個運用甚至說我本期之前提過的 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8941.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8941.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
好,這沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8965.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8989.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
那另外我想針對這個屏東車站跟潮州車站都還是有出現漏雨的問題那我印像上次本席在上個會期提的時候董事長有承諾說這部分是不是已經有開始在做相關的一個工程的進行是跟委員報告像這個照片左邊這個現在不會發生了這個是我們站內那個集水盤 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8990.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9016.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
融量不夠,那我們已經加大像這一次這個颱風、豪雨這個地區沒有在漏了但是右邊那個就是我們不是右邊,就是我們月台上的月台上的因為他那個年代久了,Silicon比較有脆化因為那個是要高價作業的我們大概在10月底以前會來進行改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9017.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9046.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
董事長我想這個還是要抓住問題啦因為畢竟像我們屏東站跟朝鮮都大概時間都不到10年那出現這樣的一個狀況因為本席也是常客我幾乎很常去做我自己也發現這個很多的包含老人家也好很多的學生也好為了要生活等等很容易跌倒啦真的很危險啦所以我想在這個問題一定要加快期程這個不能再拖下去那我們也希望說把這個修正問題解決之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9047.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9048.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
謝謝徐副委員我們現在休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9709.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9715.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
好,現在繼續開會現在處理臨時提案請議事人員一併宣讀臨時提案一有鑒於東部資交通發展企113年5月尚未完成雙軌跡電氣化使外移票難求資問題仍未有效解決欲確提出最為不相關之漲票價 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9737.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9764.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
政策,原始建建交通部及國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司在花東鐵路電氣化及雙軌化尚未完成且今年度多次遭受颱風侵襲東部幹線中斷成為常態,民眾必須花費更多交通金錢與時間成本往返北部東部災區完成復原與完全修復之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9767.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9779.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
動掌臺鐵東部幹線之票價避免帶給東部民眾及外線式觀光客之衝擊提案人委員黃敬豪等 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9780.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9809.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
一時提案二大臺中山海環線計畫歷經十餘年。建請交通部考量提高專案補助大慶烏日鐵路高架化海線鐵路雙軌跡部分高架化經費以及請交通部加速相關計畫行政流程並進促審查並將後續執行狀況書面資料回覆本委員會、提案人何新淳等 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9814.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9834.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
臨時提案三未來終結局限綜合規劃基本設計、細部設計與補助款項、撥補等程序上有充分時間可以努力若臺中市政府進行局限延伸清水段的可行性研究一併納入局限捷運可全段一次施工完成有經費不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9836.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9858.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
交通部應全力予以協助提案人和心存等。因此提案4有近於臺中市烏日區2023年登記人口數突破8萬人已入之人口逐年增加高鐵臺中站旁設置大型觀光購物觀光商城已進入開工前至工程未來如購物觀光商城開幕後 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9859.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9877.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
交通人潮必然更趨繁忙而漸傾交通部評估國道1號與高鐵臺中站周邊偵射閘道之可能性．並與臺中市政府共同研議規劃改善臺中市高鐵站區周邊之交通提案人委員何新淳等 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9878.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9898.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
臨時提案五位競速規劃並建構臺中捷運路網線臺中市政府初步規劃重得豐原線且臺中市政府於今年8月初申請可行性研究補助資料含送交通部請交通部加速臺中捷運重得豐原線行政流程並 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9900.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9909.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
簡述、審查並以中央補助比例協助並將後續執行狀況書面資料回覆本委員會提案人何新淳等宣布完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9917.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9934.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
請杜董事長剛剛有跟委員報告我們建議最後倒數第三行的最右邊開始做一點修正那我念一下就是從東部災區那邊開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9937.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9965.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
東部災區河仁崇德間完成復原恢復雙線通車之前動漲台鐵東部幹線之票價避免帶給東部民眾及外縣市觀光客之衝擊斗點未來票價合理化方案應考量花東輸運特性調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9966.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9987.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
好謝謝杜董事長那針對杜董事長的剛剛的修正意見請問委員有沒有意見好沒有意見我們請那個臺鐵公司杜董事長再把書面給議事組這邊是請委員簽名再給議事組OK好謝謝好那照案就是修正通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9988.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
10016.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
好那針對臨時提案第二案請問各位委員及行政單位有無意見好我們請提案委員何欣淳委員好謝謝這個案子是我跟蔡啟昌委員共同提案因為我們共同在關心大台中這個山海環線的計畫那我記得上個會期有曾經問過這個我們局長局長有主動去跟台中市政府溝通就有關這個三線鐵路高架化延伸至烏日就大慶到烏日段還有海線 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
10017.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10045.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
的鐵路雙軌及部分的高架化以及新建甲後線的鐵路這三件事情我記得局長有說要跟台中市政府協調、協商那是不是可以做部分的調整跟拆解那我想可能有初步的一個共識那我現在只是提案希望再確認而且確保希望交通部能夠在這三件事上面可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10045.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10046.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
請蔡其山委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10073.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10086.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
這個案子我想楊局長跟部長、次長都到我辦公室去報告過那跟新屬委員共同提案其實主要就是說透過提案讓部裡面更加清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10088.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10112.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
我們臺中兩位委員的一個態度跟想法那主要分兩個段落嘛我想我們大家都知道第一個就是大慶段這個也談很久了那當時還是主要在於經費分配比例的問題所以這個部分呢一定要跟臺中市政府再一次的積極溝通中央願意出錢依照規定中央出該出的那如果市政府財政困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10114.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10139.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
中央依照規定裡面我們允許最大的補助款我覺得中央都應該來協助台中市但是當然我們如果要中央全出這個都是這個就是市政府不做這件事情的藉口這個我想沒有辦法這麼多年來就卡在這裡所以能夠出的我們盡量來幫忙這是第一個要確立的原則那第二個海線的部分因為我們當時我要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10140.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10165.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
要從環線裡面把海線的雙軌高架切割出來那雙軌化我們已經進行這個可言早就已經做一段時間了那這個問題不大但現在依照進度持續推動海線的雙軌化但是在大甲、清水、沙路三個段要高架化這個又要市政府做部分依照規定做部分的配合款 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10166.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10188.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
那這個盧市長從過去不願意到現在我聽你們的講法上他有鬆口那我的原則還是一樣如果地方政府的經費不足但他願意出但經費不夠我們中央依照規定可協助的部分我們還是要盡力來協助也就是說只要 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10189.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10218.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
中央可以協助我們臺中發展的部分我跟何欣淳的委員都覺得中央就要全力來幫忙啦那如果中央幫忙了地方政府不做那臺中市民自有論斷嘛我覺得我一向的立場都是如此那最後一件事情就是說時間的把握很重要為什麼因為我們中央直接自己做的海線的雙軌化我們按照時程在推動但如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10219.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10248.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
市政府沒有辦法配合那這時候會出現一個狀況就是先雙軌化好了再拆掉雙軌化再把它高價我想這個浪費公帑市民也不會接受所以我想這個兩個界面就是地方政府同意高價化願意支持經費中央的雙軌化中央來全面處理那這兩個界面之間要把它配合好這個就是上一次你們到我辦公室 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10248.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10260.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
我再三提醒的這個部分所以局長你可能要多多把握那新屬委員把他加以書面化所以我們會希望表示我們非常重視這樣的一個案子好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10262.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10278.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
好 那謝謝 針對臨時提案第二案我們交通部這邊是不是請次長還是楊局長好 跟兩位委員報告 這個提案我們沒有意見那完全遵照委員的指導來辦理那至於剛剛何委員跟蔡委員所關切的這個山線跟海線的高架的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10279.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10298.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
確實我們現在努力的在按照三個計畫做拆分然後經費的部分按照剛剛委員所指導的原則來進行那這個案子我們已經轉報到行政院那國安會有一些修正的意見現在正在由臺中市政府來做修正的報告我們後續會按照這個方向來努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10300.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10309.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
好 謝謝那臨時提案第二案行政單位沒有意見我們就照案通過那針對臨時提案第三案請問各位委員及行政單位有無意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10313.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10338.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
這也是我跟蔡啟昌委員共同的提案事實上蔡啟昌是清水在地的優秀立委我是清水的媳婦所以我們共同在推這個海線捷運能夠進入清水尤其我們現在看到局限的已經通過可行性評估原則通過現在台中市政府還在做修正調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10339.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10365.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
我們希望還在做修正調整的時候可以要求臺中市政府重視清水地區納入局限延伸的可行我跟蔡委員是希望我們中央在我們的專業還有技術面是不是可以跟臺中市政府再做進一步的溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10367.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10387.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
希望臺中市政府,所以我在這裡面寫若臺中市政府進行局限延伸清水段的可行性評估那我希望在中央地方大家一起合作那我們交通部應該全力的予以協助是這個提案的最主要的精神好,謝謝何信楚委員說明好,那我們請蔡吉山委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10388.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10404.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
我來做個補充這個我想交通部也從上一任部長到這一任部長你們都來我辦公室溝通過我的想法很簡單嘛這個就效益而言短短的3公里就可以到清水街上但卻只到清泉崗機場 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10406.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10434.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
這種專業規劃極不合理對海線的鄉親極不尊重所以我在委員會也質詢過本席如果覺得市政府這樣做的話本席對這個案子中央要來經費來支持我覺得我高度有意見這是一個不合理不合常規的一個規劃那我請從前任部長到這任部長我都請你們跟臺中市政府來進行溝通那你們也都去溝通了剛剛吳次長也跟我講有都去溝通了 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10435.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10450.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
那主要是這樣因為市政府已經將局限到清泉崗國際機場的可言送到中央也通過了所以市政府不願意再破壞原有送來的這個可言那我也本席也支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10451.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10474.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
那本席覺得應該同時這個時候市政府再發包一個案子就是延伸線的可言再發包一個案子那市政府如果經費不夠沒有問題我也跟兩個部長都溝通好了中央可言的預算這一條延伸的可言預算中央來支持中央來出就對了啦所以市政府現在的回覆是 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10477.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10482.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
局長說會報告給市長所以要請市長趕快來支持這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10485.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10512.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
中央都幫他爭取到可言的經費中央都願意出了因為可言趕快這個時候做到時候施工就可以一起啦就是說現在的局限過的可言加上延伸線過的可言如果兩個可言都過了那到時候因為施工還有一段很長的時間啊maybe十年吧以上那到時候就可以一起嘛那你這時候不把這個可言一併做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10513.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10536.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
那你要等民國幾年才要來做這個可言所以我覺得把握這個時間點不分藍綠啦為台中市民來做事這個才是最重要的阿我也爭取到了我跟新淳爭取到了中央可以來補助嘛所以我也很希望這個市政府啦真的這個以蒼生為念以海線的發展為念來支持這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10538.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10562.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
好 謝謝蔡啟昌委員那我們是不是請交通部這邊做回應是 我這邊跟委員報告齁我們對這個事情非常的慎重齁在上禮拜我找了那個台中市政府來開會那跟他說明確實延伸到清水我們有聽到很多民意我們請他再考量一下那剛才提到的這樣的費用交通部願意來幫忙來支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10563.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10589.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
那他上禮拜給我的給我的初步回應是說應該會去做所以對那這剛剛提到如果說同步去進行的時候未來如果同時核定那我就一起施工都沒有關係即使有差一點都沒有關係就是同步去可以完成可以做就趕快去做因為他畢竟他比較短啦他未來真的就有機會一次全部把它完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10589.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10599.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
OK對所以你聽到了初步回應是會做好那我們期待啦好不好那我們中央交通不一定要全力支持好不好這一定好謝謝謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10601.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10602.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
臺中高鐵站周遭交通狀況我上次在質詢的時候就有讓部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10629.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10643.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
市長還有大家都有聽到我們現在真的必須立刻來面對解決這個問題那當然有很多方法那我在這個提案裡面呢是這個交通部是不是可以來 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10644.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10665.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
平估看看國道1號跟高鐵台中站的連結這是一個正式達到之後當然還有其他平面道路該解決的也希望交通部跟台中市政府共同來研議規劃改善因為台中高鐵站人口 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10666.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10695.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
最多流量最多應該叫流量最多第二個他有國際展覽會館在那裡第三個他有一個未來的一個亞洲最大的一個大型觀光購物中心在那裡那現在已經在塞了那未來你可以看到三年後絕對會更塞那我們要未雨綢繆所以我希望交通部再更積極一點那來做各項的評估來找解方然後最重要的是要跟台中市政府也要做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10696.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10704.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
中央地方密切的溝通看怎麼樣去解決所以這個是我這個提案希望大家支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10712.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10735.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
是我請跟委員報告我想這個部分現在我們知道交通那個台中市政府他有在做所謂轉一站一些交通的事情這個我們都密切在保持配合那另外一個針對閘道國道一號政策閘道部因為閘道他有一些技術上的一些需求這沒關係這我想我們請我們的高工局我們來做一個評估這沒問題我們來評估看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10738.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10753.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
好 謝謝那針對臨時提案第4案交通部這邊沒有意見我們就照案通過好那接下來我們處理第5案那請問各位委員及行政單位有無意見我再補充說明一下好請行政委員這個也就同樣我跟蔡相偉關係這個臺中的軌道運輸的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10757.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10773.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
現在有綠線、藍線、橘線藍線還要再延伸到屯區橘線我們剛剛提案要延伸到清水綠線的線型有延伸往北到大坑往南到彰化還有另外一個屯區的環狀線就是大屏幕線 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10776.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10792.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
那我希望另外我們很多人在爭取包括不分黨派的委員大家就認為我們在崇德跟豐原線就三線我們在目前的這個臺中的捷運路網裡面我們缺了三線的這一塊這一線所以希望能夠規劃崇德豐原線那這個也邀請交通部是不是可以支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10803.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10821.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
這是這個提案最主要希望交通部能夠支持大台中的一個軌道捷運好不好好謝謝新淳委員那請問還有沒有其他委員要補充說明如果沒有我們請交通部這邊做回應是這邊我想遵照委員的指導這我們部分會全力來協助那交通部這邊沒有意見我們歷史提案第5案就照案通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10831.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10836.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
臨時提案處理完畢,如有委員對上述提案補簽,列入紀錄並刊登公報。 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10856.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10863.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
謝謝主席麻煩主席請五次長跟杜董事長請五次長還有杜葳董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10869.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10892.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
市長早安市長我想剛剛臨時提案我已經提過了但是剛剛我想說上台再來問你這個捷運局限你也跟市政府進行溝通那我也從中央爭取的預算來補助市政府讓局限可以從現行市政府規劃的清泉崗國際機場延伸到清水 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10893.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10913.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
那市政府也初步這個他們的局處首長也初步給你一個比較正向的答案那我想請問次長這件事情什麼時候可以定案也就是說臺中市的交通局給你一個正向的答案但是這個答案我要等到什麼時候才可以跟清水的鄉親跟海線的鄉親報告說 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10916.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10941.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
這件事情延伸線的可行性評估可以開始進行規劃的海線有希望捷運可以到了來所以我跟委員報告齁上禮拜我召開這個會議他們是他們交通局的副局長過來那我們也跟他提到說這一條延伸到清水有很大的民意這個需求希望能夠延伸這樣才算是比較完整對沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10942.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10962.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
已經到那邊到清水其實短短的幾公里而已我們一直跟他也這樣做一個建議但是今天是在地方事務所以我們跟他講說沒關係這個時候如果你要做一個研究我們跟他講說其實可以做一個研究那這個可信性研究那個費用部分交通部會全力來支持沒錯這個就是你們兩位部長答應我的 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10962.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10966.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
市長我的意思就是說我希望在今年的12月底之前我要看到市政府的申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10990.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10991.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
時間就是在走嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11014.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11031.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
你沒那麼快你可言我錢都要給你市政府你連申請的公文都不上來申請這條可言你市政府跟我講說你態度上想要延伸局限想要照我的意見延伸到清水那你這不是說謊話嗎這不是擺明的就是擺爛嗎所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11035.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11057.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
市長我不希望浪費時間,所以如果到今年年底市政府申請中央要補助他,請他都退船好,他還不可以走,你一定要讓本席知道,可以嗎?是,可以,沒問題。好,OK。那個今天啊,這個謝謝昭緯啊,特別安排啊,這個台鐵公司啊,這個安全的問題啊,這個本席啊,認真把它研究,其實台鐵齁,這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11060.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11071.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
在談那些漲價我也跟杜董事長溝通過服務品質跟安全是旅客對台鐵公司的要求所以如果大家把安全跟品質做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11072.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11091.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
要談漲價消費者接受的程度會比較高如果這個事情特別是安全都沒有做好你要跟人家談漲價有時候民眾這個接受程度很低那我看了一下那個我不知道董事長你們提這個臺鐵5年的安全提升方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11092.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11118.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
董事長這是應該是在你任內這個是你提的嘛從一百一百一十三年到一百一十七年啊這個五年安全提升方案是嗎對這是我們公司的政策對那我看了一下你這個這個方案齁總共叫五年啊那這五年的方案從一百一十三年開始到一百一十三年還沒有結束但我把你一到八月你們現在有的資料我看了一下齁這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11122.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11142.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
台鐵公司你們的五年提升計畫113年要求要比112年這個一般行車事故及行車異常事故件數要降低20%但是我把它看了一下113年看起來不但不會降低還會比112年升高 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11145.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11165.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
董事長你有沒有發現時間還沒有到但我跟你估算一下因為你的發生事故每一個月的平均值其實都相當平均啦所以換言之我現在已經10月了剩下要保存差不多3個月我跟你統計一下你今年不但不會降低你的報告是說今年開始要降低20%喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11167.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11196.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
第一年就要降低20%但是現在來檢驗你的報告的第一年不但不會降低還會升高欸董事長你有沒有發現這個問題是對阿什麼原因跟委員報告齁這個我們就是今年可能會無法達標這件事情大概有幾個因素第一個就是我們這個事故事件我們的統計我們是綜合可控跟不可控因素全部都在裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11196.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11218.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
今年老實講第一個最大的原因是今年的天災比較多一點所以我們整體的成績就變成建樹也往上拉第二個也不諱言就是我們現在老舊車輛這一部分我們去努力的還不夠所以這個也是有增加第三部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11219.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11236.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
就是我們因為要建立我們公司的安全文化所以我們以往在112年以前我們沒有列進來說它是算一個事故或是一個事件的這種這種情形我們在今年我們都把它列進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11237.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11260.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
因為要建立正確的觀念好好的去檢討那這大概是今年可能沒有辦法達標最主要的三個原因但是我們也有努力啦像今年我們的這個耗資系統我們的故障就下降那個同仁的人為因素這個部分也下降那個董事長如果要這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11262.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11282.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
你現在告訴我三個主要原因一個就是天災一個就是車子老舊第三個就是過去的指標太籠統現在用嚴謹的標準所以看起來你的比例就上升了那如果你要這樣做拜託一下啦這種五年安全提升方案你就重做啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11283.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11289.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
那個楊局長應該要監督你嘛這個提升方案應該是鐵道局要來監督你對不對你叫楊局長怎麼監督啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11294.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11320.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
就是說你五年改善計畫的第一年都已經不但沒有下降一般是說我們目標20啦結果天災啦什麼所以我只下降10%很抱歉你現在不是你現在是沒有下降還上升而且我看起來30%以上是跑不掉啦上升30%以上都跑不掉那你覺得不可控的因素叫天災那你應該把天災分出來嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11321.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11345.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
不然如果我做一個立法院我怎麼監督你我怎麼替人民的安全來監督你那個運安會在這裡他怎麼監督啊我按照你自己寫的標準都做不到還上升但是你現在跟我解釋說因為很多天災你天災你本來就應該要排除你要告訴我監督者或者你告訴鐵道局說那個天災放在這一邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11346.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11354.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
但是我其他人委的放這一邊所以鐵道局可以監督你立法院可以監督你代表消費者你的安全啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11355.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11377.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
我要求就這個嘛是是董事長這個不過分嘛是是市長可以嗎可以這沒問題這個至少你的方案我要看到新的你的五年安全提升的方案這你自己寫的第一年的出包啊現在在談安全這個這個大家可能在立法院站在監督者的角色我是不大能夠接受這就出現這個狀況嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11379.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11403.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
局長應該今年看起來如果到12月給你的報告你也是看不下去了對不對應該是很難達標對我也知道很難達標所以後面這幾年你要告訴我所以114年可以達標我也很懷疑所以這個應該局長次長重新要求臺鐵公司應該要好好的你就要做實事你就紮紮實實的去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11406.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11430.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
有一個KPI有一個指標我們可以監督你你也可以跟同仁大家一起來努力把這個指標達成不要都做假的啦就是每次都寫這種一大堆什麼改革方案什麼方案什麼方案結果最後都是做假的我們都做不夠好那另外你說老舊我看了一下今年的預算你們要把那個像那個台鐵整體購置汰換車輛的計畫本來113年就應該要完成了 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11435.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11464.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
看起來你們今天的預算要把它延到116年對不對是阿為什麼會113年該買完該貸換完的這個車輛要拖到116年為什麼這因為主要原因是因為前兩年的疫情齁這個車輛製造廠商齁他沒有辦法如期的把車子交給我們好所以確定是這樣子啦齁不是我們的行政效率很差啦齁不是是交貨廠商的問題阿這個有沒有罰則 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11466.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11494.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
這個就是也是要看他的真正的原因我覺得台鐵公司的權益你們要去捍衛啦好不好因為他的供應鏈什麼都有收到113年就要買鎖了現在還要主席已經站起來了啦其實我對安全你說那個明日號的車廂少掛一截我今天早上聽董事長跟次長的解釋我實在是不大能夠接受次長這個通報系統也要知道啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11496.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11524.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
少一截車廂沒管欸次長這個你們至少交通部應該有對於下屬所有從航空陸地到海洋從平路到軌道重大的事情應該要通報讓部長跟次長知道嘛你們才會知道而且更何況今天要來立法院還是題目叫做臺鐵的安全欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11525.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11544.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
一截車廂沒過,這像是說全家要出遊,去到目的地外頭才發現,怎麼會欠債一個這個邏輯就是這個樣子,這個很可怕,聽起來就很恐怖所以市長應該要早知道,這個事情你交通部要充分掌握,董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11557.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11571.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
我們總會不可能這麼重大事情只有一個同仁我們生死一切都取決於這個同仁那一天有沒有睡飽有沒有看清楚不可能嘛所以剛剛早上的回答本席聽完實在是替你們捏一把冷汗 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11573.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11576.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
還好他只是掃掛他沒有造成什麼生命財產的損失啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11578.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11603.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
不然你看這個是多離譜的案子嘛 對不對?是趕快掛一個車廂欸這很難想像至少對我來講我很難理解這個事情時間的關係啦我沒有辦法因為我準備了很多要安全跟你們好好的探討但因為已經超過太久的時間了但我還是強調啦台鐵齁沒有安全就談不了其他的事情啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11604.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11621.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
沒安全就其他都不用說嘛你看高鐵我也看了高鐵的報告他雖然還是有一些數字還是不是很漂亮啦但是基本上你看消費者在對高鐵的準點安全舒適度他的滿意度相對是高很多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11622.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11637.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
所以台鐵公司有一個方向在但是不能拿這樣比啦這樣比台鐵公司的員工同仁一定不能接受嘛因為兩家企業從文化成立的目的通的不一樣但是給你們公司化了你們現在也要談漲價我們也知道台鐵要永續 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11638.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11665.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
可是這些問題之前像你說要漲幅啊要漲35.6我對這個數字我也很有意見我有意見不是說不可以漲35.6是我想知道為什麼平均一定要35.6你經營有效率你的成本就會降低但是如果你經營沒效率你的成本很高而成本很高要轉嫁給所有的消費者 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11666.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11672.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
這個不合理所以我每次提這個我都希望你先蓋啦蓋到一個差不多啊我們這裡來講啊要怎麼去 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11674.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11698.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
所以本席不會是說未反對的反對說不可以,一定不可以漲,不可以漲台鐵的豆啊,沒有台鐵可以做啊但是要怎麼漲,我認為大家應該進入很細部的,大家好好來研究一下台鐵的效率達到一個程度了,你要轉嫁,適度轉嫁給消費者我覺得合理台鐵什麼都沒做,成本很高,為了不虧錢把高成本全部轉嫁,這個我反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11699.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11704.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
OK 喔 抱歉 主席啦 把你耽誤太多時間好 謝謝好 謝謝委員謝謝蔡行商委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11710.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11732.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
在這邊也要提醒交通部還有臺鐵公司因為我們知道在過去幾年就是因為兩次的重大臺鐵的行車事故才促使這個臺鐵公司化的一個時程所以對臺鐵的這個安全的問題是大家非常的重視的所以希望我們臺鐵公司要加緊這個就是要上緊發條謝謝那接下來我們邀請何欣淳委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11739.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11743.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
市長在進入我的質詢之前,其實大家在關心臺鐵公司化之後,其實公司文化、公司治理的文化跟員工 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11762.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11790.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
緩緩相扣所以我覺得這麼多委員其實都是關心而且是提醒我們都支持公司化那我們是希望在國人的期待之下臺鐵真的第一個文化要改第二個是我們內部的效率還有很多該做的事情也不能只有著眼於要不要漲價或是著眼於我只要有我臺鐵最多的這個土地的這個優化或是活化或是經營 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11791.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11804.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
不是只有這兩個選項第三個選項是我們自我的文化改革要求嘛對不對市長好不好那我第二個我要講的是剛剛我提案裡面的一件這個高鐵市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11808.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11834.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
臺中的高鐵站 這個流量 旅客的吞吐量是全國第二那我今天來 班班客滿 早上的班次 那節節車廂也都客滿那我現在就必須要講的是 第一個 我們既然已經有大數據知道說高鐵的臺中站是人流全國第二再來 我們又是三鐵共購 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11835.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11848.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
有捷運、有台鐵、有高鐵再來旁邊有國際展覽館未來會有全亞洲最大的購物觀光城Shopping中心那你看這個圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11850.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11873.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
很明顯就可以知道說第一個我們先怎麼檢討我們的交通紓解方案因為呢臺中高鐵案之前在中修連假曾經發生過這個排隊的人龍一直圈圈就一直排到外面去那呢花了好幾個小時才去化掉好現在呢我們有紓解的方案有 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11873.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11876.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
臺灣鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司及國家運輸安全提升計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11889.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11911.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
是怎麼樣去做紓解的配套措施在高鐵之外的平面道路又是如何跟地方政府來討論我們碰到廉價也好或者是有重大的觀光的活動也好我們跟地方政府又是如何來談人潮疏散跟我們輸運的配套 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11912.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11928.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
這兩件事嘛對不對那我先請教次長以台中的高鐵站為例喔台中高鐵站的這個進去跟出來的這個出入口的道路範圍到底是屬高鐵公司管還是台中市政府管 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11929.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11942.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
怎麼分工如果是以區域的部分是應該是臺中市政府所以現在臺中市政府他做一個轉營站的有在做規劃一個轉營站的一個交通的規劃可是市長臺中市政府跟我說是搞鐵公司管 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11944.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11959.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
如果是整個區域有一個進出來我現在你們全者要劃分清楚嘛才能夠談嘛以如果高鐵站站區內是在高鐵站的站區內的道路 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11961.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11981.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
站區內是屬於高鐵公司的那那個站區外要連結出去的平面道路臺中市政府對不對可是你知道嗎我不要講重大活動也不要講廉價你請同仁去看看高鐵臺中站在只要碰到五六日 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11982.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11997.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
他的一樓站區內的交通跟連結外面的平面道路我跟你講擁捨啊回賭到已經到74號上去啦你知道多長嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12000.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12017.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
問題是到現在我只是說週末而已喔還不是有重大的活動喔就已經是這樣子的湧射了我們現在難道沒有解方嗎這第一件事情第二件事情我為什麼一直提這個我上次也質詢過我擔憂啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12019.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12044.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
我現在連週末的這個泳社我都沒有辦法解決了我未來還會有一個全亞洲最大的shopping中心在旁邊你告訴我說臺中市政府跟那個shopping中心他們有這個交通的配套措施可是我擔憂我沒有辦法相信因為現在就在塞了那未來怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12046.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12074.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
市長有沒有想過這件事有的確實是剛剛講台中站確實是人流真的是最多那這邊進出鐵道因為它整個外面的周遭可以看得出來你看那個就中南港公路它把它就把它竄在那邊它沒辦法再放大除非是跑到對方去一個是國道1號嘛一個是74號東張嘛對不對那旁邊的平面道路呢基本上呢都不太大條 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12075.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12090.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
對,都很小,對,所以這部分我想我們大概分兩個部分,第一個當然我們會來進來跟這個台中市府來做一個協調,看怎麼去改善,第二個剛剛委員也提到說,我的是不是可以適合找到的問題,這部分我想我們也會責成我們的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12093.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12113.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
我提供給我們交通部是不是可以跟台中市政府大家來談談看第一個就國道1號的閘道這個剛剛說高工局可以來評估看看第二個我曾經邀請公路局也去考察過會勘過74號線是不是能夠再增設一個閘道第三支建台中市政府的 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12114.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12138.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
責任有一個計畫道路是可以延伸銜接永春東7路如果這三支建是在高鐵站外的一個中央跟地方大家可以一起合作去增加平面道路的疏解也好或者是高速公路的疏解、快速道路的疏解這是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12139.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12164.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
整個區域上可以解決的三支箭那至於高鐵站區內的跟臺中市政府平面道路的銜接的如何去讓交通疏散的配套措施更完善我覺得高鐵公司也要盡力點責任跟臺中市政府要好好的溝通總經理可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12169.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12174.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
總經理現在是週末的時候光是在站區內這個旅客要來接客的接旅客的那個你知道嗎從禮拜五、禮拜六、禮拜天幾乎通通都是塞塞塞回讀到74號上面去這個你有空可以去找個這個禮拜五的週末的時間去看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12198.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12217.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
因為這個人潮在5、6日確實是非常的擁擠所以現在5、6日就這樣子還沒有重大活動這個娛樂城還沒有完工現在就這樣子了所以我才會請交通部這邊是幫忙趕快要趕快想因為兩年後那個娛樂城要完工那你只有兩年的時間要找出解方而且要完工 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12224.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12233.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
那如果沒有在那之前找到解方而且能夠工程完工的話我敢跟你保證兩年後的高鐵附近會寸步難行 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12235.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12260.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
所以拜託要跟台中市政府一起來做這件事好不好來找解方好不好我們會配合交通部一起跟台中市政府來溝通高鐵公司有高鐵公司跟地方政府溝通的問題交通部請找台中市政府好好就這個區域裡面我們能做的我們中央地方一起來做好不好接下來最後的30秒剛剛提安有提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12261.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12274.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
臺中軌道規劃現在有綠線、藍線藍線還要延伸到太平那我們橘線的可行也已經原則同意那我們剛剛說橘線我們希望延伸到清水市長剛剛有說 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12276.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12295.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
看起來接受到的訊息是臺中市政府願意延伸清水這一段的可行案要提出來我們中央會補助對不對那我剛剛說我們缺了一個什麼三線所以呢臺中捷運崇德豐原線進入三線三層這很重要可行性評估臺中市政府送來了嗎請問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12298.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12305.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
臺鐵的山海環線剛剛我們在提案的時候次長還有局長都有說明過了我們希望能夠儘速的請交通部全力的來支持我們拚年底好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝委員好 謝謝何新淳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12326.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12348.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
好,接下來邀請廖先祥委員好,謝謝昭偉,慢慢邀請我們交通部五次長請五次長鐵道局楊局長還有台鐵杜董事長杜董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12361.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12368.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
一件小事先提就是我們台鐵的部分因為山頭大雨可能造成一些鐵路這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12370.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12371.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
吳次長,你有沒有去平溪玩過? |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12394.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12411.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
平溪我很早以前去過那你有沒有做過那件事情有有好來楊局長有沒有去平溪玩過高中的時候有沒有做過那件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12413.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12425.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
當初應該是從三雕領直接往上走啦沒有我不是講那個啦我是講那個放那個東西那個沒有啊沒有啊五次黨有過嘛有兩局黨沒有嘛董事長就不要講啦這個比較敏感 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12427.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12454.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
那其實這個就是一個現況啦他可能沒有符合我們的法令的規範但他已經是我們在地的一個觀光在地文化一個很重要的一個元素那我們現況就是去法令上我們去漠視他當然在實務上我知道台鐵有去做一些安全維護的措施啦那其實針對這樣子長期來地方的觀光文化的一個衍生的在地的一個文化啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12455.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12474.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
我們有沒有想過要從法律面去給他做一個改善讓他能夠因為他唯有合法我們政府機關才能夠去針對他去做一些合法的安全措施無論是硬體或者是我們的人員的調配我們才依法有據那這部分不曉得我們次長怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12476.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12491.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
從法令上來看的話剛剛提到因為大家涉及到很多管理的問題因為涉及安全的問題那這個確實可能要去深入探討因為這個地方如果這樣的開放其他可能會跟著怕因力來比照 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12492.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12516.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
那至於剛剛提到為什麼那時候會有因為那時候我的角色還不是在做不是在做鐵道的時候所以我要特別聲明一下那但是因為他這整個現在確實是現場有很多但是如果去我們去強制把他要求去做所謂的監理的部分我覺得對地方的觀光可能會造成一些是啦 它是一個現況 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12517.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12539.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
我們不負以它合法的地位但是我們也沒有想要去做強力的執法這就是現況那也導致我們沒有辦法去做更強的安全維護的措施是這樣子吧對我們也許再想看看從管理的方面看你有沒有辦法去做一些突破無論你管理怎麼樣它這個行為就是有違反現在的法令 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12540.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12557.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
所以說後續我可能也會提出一些法案的一些修法可能針對一些非電氣化路肩可能類似的情況的觀光需求的部分去法令上適度的把它放寬那同時我們也才能夠針對我們賦予他從事這些行為的時候我們去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12558.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12585.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
我們去做更強的一些安全回復措施我想現在其實台鐵很用心原則上那邊沒有出什麼事情都有專責人員在那邊做安全的提示但是我希望我們可以繼續這樣子下去我們也可以去做一些更好的改善好不好那另外這個有關閘門的部分請教一下現在就是有要在高雄有要做一個這個台鐵越台閘門的一個事辦計畫嗎是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12588.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12599.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
有,現在大概是目前應該是這兩天岳台門的部分應該在招標,招標嘛那剛剛我的報告跟標案有一點點延誤好,我們預計在15號結標 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12602.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12619.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
那這個就是單獨一個站體的招標而已還是說有後續擴充這是一個事辦的就是單純事辦沒有後續擴充對對後續擴充要等到這個事辦這個評估完了以後才有辦法定計畫好啦因為其實我也不知道的高雄的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12621.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12647.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
可能安全性怎麼樣當然我相信我們台鐵去挑他他可能會有他的特殊性啦但是如果說以講到我們臺灣我們台鐵各站的一個安全常上新聞的這個頻率啦比較常上新聞的我們汐止新北的汐歌火車站其實他還蠻常上新聞的啦就是我們無論是行走的這個通道的一個寬度還是可能拍照所引發的一個視覺的一個衝擊性啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12649.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12652.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
臺灣鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司：完整會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12676.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12678.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
臺灣鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司及國家運輸安全提升計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12699.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12706.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
在這邊承諾我就是細刻我這段可以在將來我們臺鐵在正式咱們上路之後是一個第一波的名單裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12707.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12732.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
各位委員報告細科沒有被選為示範是因為它的線型比較複雜它有彎道也有坡度那我們選擇高雄主要是因為它比較平直然後它是一個就是比較完善的這個月台的設備那包括高雄它已經是我們115公分月台高了 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12733.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12761.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
那有的車站他還沒有月台提高的話也不適合來做啦會二次施工那這個整個的這個矽科站未來要怎麼樣來設置這個月台門當然矽科站以這個安全的角度來看他應該是要排在前面那但是會不會排在第一個我是覺得應該還是要看我們事辦的一個結果來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12761.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12777.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
好我想因為就是我們台鐵現在有在做安全的維護了嘛那民眾或許沒有了解到剛剛董事長剛剛講的比如說這個彎道或是說斜坡的一些問題這個其實你講我當然能夠了解他或許跟一般的月台不一樣但也是因為這些問題導致了這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12780.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12798.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
這個車站它也有增加了一些其他的危險因子導致它更危險結果就變成說我們標準的車站能夠坐月台提升安全結果我們危險的車站因為它危險所以它不能設讓我們反而沒有來提升它的安全我想這個可能到時候民眾可能會比較沒有辦法接受這一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12799.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12818.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
所以說,針對一些特殊的一些車站還是要麻煩我們台鐵公司針對後續我們的安全來做一些相對應的一些作為好不好,再麻煩我們的台鐵公司也麻煩我們交通部能夠幫忙協助請定以上,謝謝好,謝謝委員好,謝謝廖先祥委員接下來邀請黃建平委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12836.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12843.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
主席我們請次長跟我們的鐵路局督董事長請吳次長還有杜威董事長委員好次長好、董事長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12856.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12880.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
零四零三地震之後整個蘇花公路我們北緯鐵路常常因為好大雨就中斷那現在只要禁忌要落後啦落後蘇花跟北緯就會預防性關閉那這個對於我們台東花蓮的交通嚴重的衝擊那台東的鄉親不然是他在說是不是我們災後我們可以透過努力趕快來振興這個交通觀光 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12881.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12901.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
就沒有想到10月份就來個山坨的颱風而且市長這次重創的地方是在臺東的南部南迴地區是這相信市長這邊應該有收到相關的訊息那我想太馬里車站還一度被土石油淹沒那南迴公路都中斷那整個交通停擺那其實在這個過程裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12902.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12912.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
我們並沒有看到總統、行政院長或副院長到臺東來勘災那不知道是臺東的山太高還是人太少我們在鄉親都這樣說是因為我們的牆壁比較小所以都沒人重視 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12914.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12937.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
那我想接下來我們跟交通部討論議題很多那未來很多事情在國會電檔上我們認為公開透明的來交換意見會比私下、私底下的私鄉收受會來得好市長那這樣只要為了台東好哪怕是一百個便當會本席都願意來參加我們也希望中央可以多多組合給我們台東我相信交通部應該不會反對吧不會不會反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12939.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12963.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
本席在這邊也提出幾點來跟交通部這邊來討論來希望全力來協助台東那第一個就是說29年沒有漲價的台鐵那台鐵董事會討論票價調漲那據聞會按照整個投資報酬率來做3到5%的這個調整那從台北到高雄以台北到高雄來看這個票價大概是現在全票是843那未來可能就會破千 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12964.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12965.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
臺灣鐵道安全提升計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12989.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12990.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13011.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13029.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
也要特別提到就是說如果因為北迴線中斷常常會造成兩個情況一個就是臺北往臺東的旅客卡在中間臺東往臺北的旅客卡在花蓮叫天天不應叫地地不靈你向南向北都不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13031.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13051.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
不知道是不是都沒有聽到這個聲音說需要立委來反映或是民眾來強烈抗議之後才會有因應措施那這個部分本席要求未來如果這個台鐵有突發性的狀況沒有辦法正常營運的時候交通部應該立即啟動緊急的調度像是飛機的部分或者是火車、公車透過南迴這一段來 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13054.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13074.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
輸導那讓我們的整個運作可以讓整個交通能夠更順暢這個部分是不是市長你是不是同意是是同意齁我想說明一下齁如果以台東來講他現在目前還有班機在飛啦齁那到時候我們看他的情況如果中斷北回中斷的時候他往北的部分我想我們看班機的情況我們來協調那個這個航空公司來加班機 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13075.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13100.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
第二個往南的部分繼續往高雄的部分這個公路的部分大概我們的公路局我想這個都可以來配合沒問題包括鐵路可以到這邊像上次我們甚至也協調高鐵公司我們在最後一班車後面的就是最後的那一班車再往後延時間能夠把這個台鐵的部分銜接上讓它安全回到這個臺北北部中部這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13101.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13118.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
市長在提醒花東只有一條鐵公路、台九線跟火車只要一段有中段就只能走另外一段那這個其實對花東來講是非常非常不公平那另外也再次來講一下這次災後整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13121.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13147.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
臺東的災禍我們看在之後大概經費會高達5億以上那這邊也要請交通部這邊來協助那這張照片給市長跟董事長看到這是我們在會館的時候看到的土石流衝到民宅的這個照片那甚至有一段是在這個太馬里南北坑他剛好是在橋墩這個照片那邊他整個橋墩裸露那民眾非常的擔心非常擔心 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13149 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13162.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
本席要針對這個部分要求交通部跟台鐵做兩點第一個就是針對台馬里南北坑這個鐵橋下方的這個土石流失情況立即來做安全性的評估然後來報告然後並啟動整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13164.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13167.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
臺東縣的財政情況並不是這麼的充裕,要給予我們全力的經費的資源。以上兩點,請問交通部是不是能夠做得到? |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13185.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13205.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
這個應該可以如果剛提到說鐵路橋那邊土石有流失的時候我們可以派人去看一下了解到底他的情況是怎麼樣因為其實一個橋墩底下他還有一些基狀在是當然去看啦我們我想這個安全是最重要的這部分我們一定可以來配合沒問題是齁其實經費部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13206.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13206.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
接下來邀請鄭天才委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13242.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13245.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
主席、各位委員有請次長、還有鐵道局局長、還有董事長、還有杜威董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13260.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13286.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
這個 次長好委員好你是鐵路的工程的專業不敢這個我們回想這個北回鐵路民國69年開通到現在就是今年因為04、03的大地震當天都還OK喔從民國69年一直到 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13287.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13316.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
零四零三大地震檢視之後都沒有問題是因為後面的颱風加上大概幾百次了幾百次的移震才造成現在的北迴鐵路河仁道崇德這一段所以這個部分就 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13317.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13342.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
鐵路的一個專業來講怎麼樣去解決這是一個我們等一下要去探討的部分我們先談這個國家鐵路安全計畫當然我們當初這個鐵路警交通部在測定的時候普悠瑪號、泰路格號這些問題所以希望旅客臨時 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13344.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13367.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
為安全政策的一個方針所以這個部分到底從這個開始執行到現在有沒有達成旅客臨死亡目前從111年來講旅客臨死亡的部分現在是有達成好我們繼續來努力我們現在接下來還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13369.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13394.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
相關的這些你們都會去因應這個我就不多談了因為時間的關係我們看這個剛才講的北回鐵路從德到何人當然公路的部分是一件事情這個蘇花安要趕快蘇花安要趕快這個就在蘇花安的範圍那鐵路的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13397.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13420.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
氣候變遷加上相關的這些地震的影響、颱風的影響造成這樣的一個情形所以就這個次長包括鐵道局不能把這個責任全部放在台鐵 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13423.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13451.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
我看這個報告啊今天的報告基本上都台鐵的鐵道局成立啊要肩負鐵道局的責任啊所以這個部分怎麼樣既然有多了一個鐵道局過去沒有啊北匯鐵路時代南匯鐵路時代沒有啊所以怎麼樣去強化去因應我看你們的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13452.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13476.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
報告裡面這都不是一個當然這都是現階段要做的啦現階段要做的怎麼樣去做一個長期的這裡面有提到長期的方案一定要推出來這個部分絕對是要交通部、鐵道局 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13478.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13504.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
共同的跟臺鐵公司共同去推動所以這個部份這個次長要不要說明一下是謝謝謝謝委員的一個提醒我想剛講的鐵道局的部份其實他也目前扮演這個很重要的角色譬如說他最近應該算是前年就引進所謂的檢查員的部份檢查員的部份以後他針對臺鐵到現場 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13508.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13527.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
更頻密增加、深度增加的一個情況去檢查他到底一些程序有沒有落實已經檢查很多次了那有發現一些問題那些問題一樣是把他列管來做我想這個只是在這我們之前的報告沒有把他顯示出來而已其實他們也做了蠻多事情的 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13528.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13550.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
那至於剛講從何人從的中間這個問題從上次零四零三之前大概都沒什麼問題但是從那次以後大地震以後包括後面剛提到一百多次的遺症造成整個土壤都已經鬆動所以只要一下雨就會下來那剛提到我們大概擬定幾個方案第一個當然就是短期現在麻將要做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13551.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13569.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
我可能去做一些輕鬆的一些動作那另外一個我們也跟導入所謂的流域管理的這樣的概念我們跟上游的農村水保署還有林業署以及公務局我們做一個區域聯防因為他那邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13570.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13598.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
臺鐵算是最下游上一部分也有問題然後我們這邊就可以及早知道那另外利用這個氣象署的QPES Plus這個部分來進行雨量的可能會對氣候的問題來做一個預測我想這部分這個都是我們要去做的那另外還有提到所謂的長期的部分和平到衝突這我們現在目前在進行改憲的一個評估因為確實那邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13600.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13616.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
因為既有的隧道已經有那中間又有幾個像那個和人站那些如果說改線就會牽涉到這和人站到底要怎麼處理的問題我想這部分我們大概預計在年底或一個初步的評估的報告出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13617.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13641.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
那如果後面我想順利後我們後面就開始要做進行可行性的這個規劃一直往下希望能得到一個算是比較長久的一個改善的一個方案一定要徹底提出長期就如同北回鐵路我剛剛講的民國69年到今年 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13643.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13644.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
接下來邀請羅志強委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13673.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13677.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
請五次長還有我們杜董事長請五次長還有杜董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13683.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13711.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
次長好委員好審計部報告指出臺鐵去年霧點次數超過143萬次發生率達20%那我有看到總質詢的時候部長回應吳宗憲委員說要求像臺鐵像高鐵那樣精準這才是大家想要的目標那我想請教一下次長臺鐵的準點率是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13712.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13726.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
現在因為如果扣除因為今年的天災比較多所以北緯那邊常常因為臺鐵我講的是那個高鐵高鐵準點率多少高鐵應該有9999.58那平均延誤時間大概是0.19分鐘那我想請教一下次長跟董事長你們有信心臺鐵做得到99.58然後平均延誤時間0.19分鐘嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13740.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13762.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
跟委員報告按照現在我們不理定的這個準點率的一個規定的話我們自己台鐵公司的目標99%我們是定在再過8年再過8年因為這的確需要那我想請教一下那明年的目標是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13763.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13768.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
明年是97.597.5謝謝你那按照鐵字節統計其實你們的準點率也都超過90%嘛對不對去年是到95.98%嘛對不對那請問部長為什麼你知道你們準點率可以超過95%嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13783.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13799.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
我這樣講因為你們的霧點計算是看結果不看過程所以是到達終點暫時霧點在5分鐘內就算準點那如果中間的霧點平平記錄上這裡是一般不算霧點的準點列車對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13801.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13822.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
目前是這樣就起點跟終點那絕大多數其實不是搭乘全程的乘客事實上如果是中間被吃掉時間都變成了黑數所以他就出現一個很弔詭的現象就是臺鐵這個民眾覺得整天都在誤點但是臺鐵自己覺得沒有誤點 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13823.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13846.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
那當然我也必須講啦高鐵是用相同的統計標準但高鐵你就看到到99.58就要說精準率就非常非常高所以如果你們要用同樣的這一套標準的話那也希望你就是真的做到跟高鐵一樣這是部長給台鐵的期待啦當然有難度但是請往這個方向努力去做可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13847.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13866.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
這是我們努力的目標另外次長今天來報告鐵道安全我有看報告內容當中沒有針對台鐵能力不足的問題檢討你覺得台鐵的能力問題對我們目前鐵路安全的影響是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13868.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13888.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
我想跟委員報告臺鐵其實在上半年已經有禁用到872個的量子啦下半年預計還要再722個這樣就補充進來大概1000多個我先這樣說啦那事實上我們看到幾個狀況比如說臺鐵新志強6月北上行經花蓮秀嶺 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13889.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13909.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
土石流導致列車出軌監視器在事故前就拍到土石流堵住隧道口卻因為值班人員去上廁所未注意到臺鐵產業工會就說其實這有人力不足的問題東部的公務段人員也說東部幹線一段再段人力荒導致修復速度趕不上損壞速度 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13910.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13936.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
那另外省紀部也在這個臺鐵安全改革執行請示裡面提到就是說臺鐵公司化後面臨了2000多名人力缺口但112年鐵路特考預計招考993人錄取887人實際報告數731人有156人錄取未報到所以也顯現出外部人對臺鐵展望欣欣不足這個部分還希望我們再繼續努力好不好是好以上謝謝好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13939.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13943.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
好謝謝羅志強委員那接下來邀請陳官廷委員那主席麻煩請次長請吳次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13964.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13990.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
市長好市長在我們嘉義縣有一個非常重要的一個交通的基礎建設就是民修鐵路高架化那它全長是8.92公里那總經費是173億左右的這個工程它未來會拆除三座路橋五處平交道跟一處地下道也就是說它是可以縫合都市促進都市發展改善我們交通跟優化環境的大好機會那我們辦公室上週詢問已經得到說鐵道局已經在9月13號 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13991.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
14016.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
提報經費審議報告到交通部去審查那是不是可以承諾加速這一個部內的經費審查的進度但我擔心說明年5月臨時軌的這一個工程開工到12月的主體開工工程可能會有所延遲各位報告我想行政程序的加速這個絕對沒有問題那至於我想我們明年會把握住明年5月臨時軌的開工還有年底的主體 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
14017.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
14017.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
臺灣鐵道安全提升計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
14033.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
14056.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
那除了這個這個進度因為我們其實不僅是在嘉義有類似這樣子的基礎建設臺中也有那臺中的這個鐵路高架後橋下的空間有很長的一段時間他的鐵就是鐵尾巴基本上是沒有妥善的去利用所以說這個可能會造成第一個就是資源浪費事容不佳等等的是不是可以協調確保這樣的狀況不會再發生到民雄 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
14060.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
14061.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
有沒有考量說在設置停車空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
14088.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
14113.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
那我一直強調停車空間其實我們上次有去會堪那跟這個交通部的都共同去會堪那有聽說共同會會考慮商店、文化設施或者是立美化但是現在我們對於停車空間是有很多地方鄉親在討論因為第一個就是航太園區已經要到時候完成之後會帶來新的人潮比如說到時候進入市區的話它會沒有足夠的空間是不是可以麻煩一併考慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
14113.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14115.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
市長這個部分就是縣市政府跟中央政府還是希望說中央政府也可以帶領一種領導的這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14131.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14134.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
請問行駛於高速道路上的超車道是哪一道? |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14150.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14174.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
就是最內側啦就是最內側可是現在最內側上面是梅山欸那所以說如果是要開往梅山的駕駛人會不會因為車道標示的方式因此開在最內的超車道造成動線堵塞甚至因此受罰但是他這個設計應該主要是說你先會譬如說這邊會先那個中埔會先到再來才是竹崎再來才是梅山所以一般他會慢慢的引導 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14176.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14202.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
市長謝謝我們是在假設說這樣子的引導方式是有用但是我們聽到很多不同的民眾來說常常會因為這樣子的車道而導致有點混淆就是怕說他們因為在其他國家的話通常就是一個車牌上面就會有相應的這樣的車道的標示所以我是希望還是有相關的改良在視覺設計上面那我再補充一個齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14203.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14223.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
這一個我們國道3號在我們嘉義的這個標示裡面有獨落我們阿里山的入口翻入鄉這個部分那現在在我們嘉義縣有四個交流道分別是梅山竹崎、中埔跟水上那我們訴求其實包含最近我們有重大的包含茶博會、柿子節都是在此區域 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14224.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14242.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
所以我們想說是不是可以在國道3號這幾個縣市的交流道徵射翻路的告示牌指引因為它未來這個翻路廂它不是只有一些重要的一些重要的慶典它可能都會在這個地方可是對於外地來的話我們是希望有徵射這樣視覺相關的指引那才會有與以來幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14244.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14263.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
那其實像查柏惠是在中埔鄉可是未來他也有可能會在其他的鄉鎮像是我們的這個販路鄉都是有可能的那隨著這個人次的增加我們這一次像40節還有什麼等等的綜合活動其實是有需要做這些標示的改善所以如同我剛才提到的從這一個內設車道跟這一個超車道 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14266.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14266.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
陳冠廷委員翁曉庭委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14291.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14298.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
老師主席好,然後這裡有請次長還有鐵道局的楊局長以及台鐵的董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14309.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14331.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
委員好市長好還有董事長、局長好我想這次這個交通委員會來召開臺灣鐵道安全提升計畫專題報告我覺得非常有意義本席非常重視就是鐵路安全的問題不管是高鐵還是台鐵都是如此那我們看一下那當然就是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14332.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14342.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
我們在探討就是安全的同時其實本市也很在乎在安全的基礎上我們應該要能夠做到就鐵路的準時不誤點 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14345.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14347.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
在審計部總決算報告當中有提出2023年臺鐵的霧點次數超過143萬次發生率高達20%尤其在台北、南港板橋、沙崙等車站發生霧點率更高 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14369.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14389.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
那麼這個我們新引進的這個EMU的3000型自強號也是經常發生霧點那霧點率更是高達50%那麼如果說我們來看看我們所要效法的這個日本這個國家那麼他們日本的火車平均的霧點時間是小於一分鐘的 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14390.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14391.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
請問就是你們有沒有什麼一個解決的方案對於霧點 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14420.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14446.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
我會改善誤點的情況誤點我想大概主要是第一個就是我們設備的妥善率剛剛提到我們過去我發現大概車輛比較老舊所以我們那時候老舊比較多大概就是舊的直強號還有局官號的部分那現在我們引進了E500的部分這個汽車頭以後我相信這個所以誤點是跟機器老舊設備老舊有關嗎其中其中一個部分而已我想其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14448.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14458.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
這個應該不見得是跟火車設備老舊有關這個整個人員的管理然後車子安排等等這些都是息息相關的本身希望說能夠正視這個問題否則的話我們其實很難跟其他的國家觀光客說我們的鐵路是準時的 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14467.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14468.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
下一頁接下來我們要講的就是說因為我們的火車霧點情況很嚴重可是對於霧點的補償和賠償的部分本席認為其實交通部應該還有鐵路局應該要來 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14483.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14505.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
檢討相關的補償的措施是不是要再改進啊那依照你們的晚點賠償規約裡面若是可規則於臺鐵的事故的話達45分鐘以上那麼才可以申請全額退費或者是可以免費搭乘若是不可規則的話則是要兩個小時以上那麼如果好來再下一頁那麼所以呢本席是認為說其實剛剛我們看到的那個強化 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14510.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14515.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
有關於賠償的這個措施其實蠻老舊的105年當時訂的其實是不是應該檢討一下未來呢應該要再縮短那個誤點的時間譬如說超過25分鐘30分鐘就應該要賠償了啦不可以說是這個延長這麼長的時間我覺得這是不合理的所以如果從強化乘客的權利保障來講的話那本席建議說你們可以去研議是不是除了退費和 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14537.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14540.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
免費搭乘之外對於車次誤點的賠償跟補償或許我們可以採取一個定額的賠償的方式而這可以更有效的去強化乘客的權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14550.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14550.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
另外還有一個問題就是對於開放站票 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14572.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14595.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
其實運安會他們在兩年前當時針對太魯閣事故的調查發現有發現就是站票的罹難的乘客的死亡率是高於坐票的死亡率的差不多有7倍之高那麼所以呢我這裡也希望就是臺鐵還有鐵路局這邊交通部是不是也可以去研議有關於站票的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14598.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14614.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
這個措施我們如果說同意可以開放站票那麼對於站票乘客的生命安全我們也是要顧到有沒有可能就是去規劃一個適當的站票的站立區或者是說也可以設置一些安全的保護措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14616.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14632.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
本期認為說這個是有必要的畢竟就是大家就是要考慮到運輸的便利性跟安全性要同時兼顧不能夠偏廢如果說只考慮到乘客的運輸的便利性可是卻忽略了安全性這是非常 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14632.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14633.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
這是不是可以請你們可以在這個兩個月內給本席一個你們的研議報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14648.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14674.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
這可以 不過要跟委員報告一下就是有關於站票的限制除了除了這個運人以外他也是關於我們車上坐在位子上旅客的食物的感受度所以目前台鐵公司呢我們是普悠瑪、太魯閣還有我們新型的EMU3000因為他的運人是夠的 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14675.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14691.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
所以我們目前都沒有考慮說要開放站票不過這個委員剛剛的交代我們會來做討論好的希望你們能夠演繹謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝翁小林委員接下來邀請黃國昌委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14702.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14710.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
謝謝主席﹖有請台鐵的董事長和運輸安貴的主委請杜薇董事長還有我們運輸安貴林主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14719.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14742.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
委員好 兩位好 時間的關係喔 直接切入這題喔2020年4月10號因為屏山巷的事件 屏交道的這段季 它沒有放水瓶結果沒有訊號給司機 沒有任何預警的作用結果造成了三節車廂出軌 直接撞上去 司機乘客四個人受傷為了處理這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14745.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14752.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
運安會做了一個調查報告這個調查報告是2021年運安會屏山巷交通事故調查報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14753.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14771.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
因為這個調查報告出來我們本來的平交道遮斷器沒有辦法發揮通知有障礙物入侵沒有放平所以我們台鐵開標採購遮斷器1424套目前這1424套耗費將近5億元目前裝設的進度如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14782.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14801.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
目前我們裝上去大概近400到392392嗎那按照本來應該什麼時候要裝設完成我們整個合約的規定應該是到明年的6月底裝設的完嗎目前的進度有沒有delay |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14802.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14825.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
目前的進度有delaydelay多久大概delay差不多有半年左右你再回去算一下啦,超過一年了啦我都幫你算完了delay是一回事啦現在更嚴重的事情是什麼現在更嚴重的事情是沒有達到水平定位的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14826.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14851.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
現在已經裝好的故障連連根本沒有辦法發揮警告的訊號給司機在目前已經裝好的情況之下以彰化跟花蓮來講我們回去看最先完成的是花蓮花蓮250套都裝完了然後彰化要裝650套現在只裝了102套就花蓮的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14855.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14871.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
故障連連目前出院過了沒有報告還沒有目前出院還沒有過我們這個跟驗收比較沒有關係就我們裝上去的時候我們會讓他有一個充分的測試因為上去就要開始使用目前裝好的部分你沒有辦法發揮這個預警的功能很危險等於是當初運安會所指責的 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14885.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14908.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
當這個平交道如果有車子卡著他沒有放下來結果竟然沒有訊號給司機員這真的是一件很危險的事情但我關心的事情是什麼花蓮、彰化現在裝設的352套發生了上百次的異常發生了上百次的異常以後大家就會很關心 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14910.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14931.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
說開什麼玩笑我們花了這麼多錢裝了這個東西結果沒有辦法發揮啊他應該有的功能現在到底啊該怎麼辦我為什麼說啊現在到底啊應該啊要怎麼辦來看一下我們看啊你們這個遮斷器施工進度檢討會議紀錄啊現在彰化600多要裝100才裝100多嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14938.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14965.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
要繼續裝駕駛的時候啊彰化電誤斷了說他們不想換啊太爛了太爛了彰化那邊的鄉親啊現在嚇得不得了啊看到花蓮的情況花蓮穿了250套現在出業的沒過故障連連到底可不可以發揮啊一開始花這麼多錢要保護安全這樣子啊的目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14967.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14982.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
針對目前現在這個平交道的遮斷器第一個嚴重的delaydelay過delay連裝好的部分有沒有辦法保障安全才是大家最關心的事嘛否則的話不會連台鐵自己髒化 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14983.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
15003.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
電路段的同仁都不想換這個部分董事長有沒有掌握有 有部分掌握不過剛剛委員提告訴我的這早上10點記者會我才說有聽到說有104那個經理部門是沒有跟我報那麼細那這個我會後我會趕快去了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
15004.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
15022.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
經理部門沒有跟你報這麼細喔對但是對整體來講的這個整個我們這段機的進度是有都有跟我做匯報第一個啦delay歸delay啦第二個是什麼為什麼會delay你前面在裝的部分驗來驗去喔來來來 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
15025.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
15050.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
我給董事長看一下你們施工進度檢討會議我們去要到資料了以後我們的同仁啊是一個一個核對啊一個一個核對啊現在花蓮出現了那麼嚴重的狀況所謂花蓮出現了那麼嚴重的狀況是今年1月有發生一次小客車又撞到那個平交道的桿子結果真的沒有響 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
15052.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
15075.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
這件事情董事長知道嗎這個事情我了解2024年1月14號我了解我了解因為這個事情所以又停工47天嘛那為什麼特別這件事情要挑出來講因為這個攸關每一個各平交道人車的安全也攸關我們每一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
15077.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
15103.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
鐵路行駛在軌道上面列車司機員跟乘客的安全所以絕對不能等閒視之今天我們花了5億元找了一家廠商不斷的故障不斷的遲延甚至花蓮裝完了今年1月有問題搞到現在在彰化段彰化段他們說如果一個平交道有3個以上的遮斷器他們不願意再繼續裝為什麼不願意再繼續裝有裝跟沒有裝一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
15106.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
15129.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
沒有辦法發揮這個運警的功能繼續裝要做什麼但說出了事誰要負責運安會來請教一下運安會的主委因為當初的事故調查報告是你們做的嘛要求要這樣的改善也是運安會說的嘛那台鐵才編了預算做這件事嘛今天我講的內容運安會有沒有掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
15130.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
15158.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
運安會在今年 每半年我們都會就會檢討那個安全感染性的列管他這個有關平台安全回復到現在還是在列管到現在還是在列管嘛對我請運安會跟台鐵這邊攜手合作啦是這樣下去喔 絕對不是辦法因為我真的不希望哪一天出了意外了以後不管是在花蓮還是在彰化因為現在裝作都有就是花蓮跟彰化嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
15160.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
15173.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
爛到彰化那邊的人都不想裝啦下一次如果有事故再出現在花蓮或者是在彰化造成無辜的民眾的死傷的話這個責任非常非常的重啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
15174.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15193.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
針對這件事情到底要怎麼處理主席站起來了我最後只有一個要求是不是可以請董事長是不是可以請董事長回去研議了以後這件事情到底要怎麼解決給所有交通委員會的委員還有我一份書面報告這樣可以嗎是可以需要多久我們兩週內好嗎兩週內好可以謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15196.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15198.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
主席謝謝麻煩請伍次長跟台鐵董事長請伍次長還有杜威董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15230.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15243.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
來 市長好市長知不知道工程會來盤點我們中央部會所有部會決議後現在執行的這個預算來講最後一名是哪一個部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15245.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15246.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
臺鐵68個站的耗資系統更新那當時2021年被 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15273.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15293.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
說叫做世紀大標案那時候可能也有很多的一個狀態就是說有6家廠商然後得標然後那時候有開標、招標、延宕等等的部分那不管2021年的一個事情嘛但到現在我想請教次長知不知道說這樣的一個標案現在延宕了多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15295.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15309.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
我知道這個是跟應該是西門子公司那原本預計什麼時候這一個整個標案會完成?不清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15314.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15338.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
115那現在要延到118115延到118已經預計延宕兩年了會不會在118如期如始完成不一定但是現在已經延宕兩年了所以才會本席開宗明義先講工程會在今年五月的時候發函給各部會其中給交通部就是因為你們有一個81億元的計畫延宕了20% |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15342.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15370.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
那我想請教到目前為止臺鐵董事長知道這個案件我們事工單位是不是我們的公務人員也跟你報告說為什麼會延宕那麼久很多原因嘛 什麼樣的原因大致上的原因就是疫情還有就是我們的這個得標的製造商西門子他對於這個整個合約的執行他有他一些跟我們不同的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15371.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15387.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
不同的看法對對就是我們是甲方他是乙方他有什麼不同看法那甲方要求他要做當時也應該我們的規格標案等等的設計出來乙方就要執行啊是那因為他的不同看法反而造成我們延宕兩年 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15388.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15416.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
這跟委員報告這兩年不是只有這一個不過剛剛講的這個西門子跟我們的這個履約的情形基本上我們是看到合約裡面的精神但是他有另外一種看法就是他是同胞的他認為同胞應該是中間有一些可以調整那這個這裡面的項目我這邊就不贅述但是我們現在正在積極的跟他協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15417.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15424.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
主要是廠商的問題佔大部分施工能力不足他自己承攬了之後他的施工能力其實是不足的所以說造成是說對於我們這邊沒有辦法有一個足夠的一個推進再來設計團隊說在西班牙長期溝通不良 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15447.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15471.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
以方的人已經得到我們的標然後結果他的設計團隊在西班牙然後居然我們要要求他來做這樣子整個號誌的一個串聯他沒有辦法溝通然後還有第三點他台籍團隊跟西班牙的管理人員內部還有溝通問題以及第四點團隊是捷運系統經驗者沒有台灣傳統鐵路經驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15474.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15501.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
事情大了我覺得這件事情在81億的耗資整個串聯系統是電子的串聯系統並且希望提高可靠度、安全度在2021年的時候做這個標案那時候6家來去標因為是外商大家都來標結果又有招標、結標、延標、延後公告到最後招標日期一延再延引發異議 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15502.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15521.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
到最後這一家廠商得標我們都不講說內部有沒有像什麼樣的一個狀況可是沒想到六家廠商照理講選出一家應該是我們認為說最合理最可靠的廠商結果兩年多過去了執行反而這家廠商是有長期溝通不良內部溝通問題還有原來他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15525.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15533.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
團隊是捷運系統經驗者跟我們臺鐵的68站電子號誌串聯的又不一樣那當初怎麼會選這樣的廠商?這跟委員報告齁這一個案子當初在這個就是投標齁投標的過程齁是我有看過那投資一半我現在在請教啦投資一半 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15555.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15561.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
能不能完成在2029年還有5年的時間如果說這個團隊持續這樣子我不知道算不算擺爛但是看得出來我們台鐵內部的同仁也覺得說這廠商問題很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15576.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15594.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
那還有市長我都不好意思講這有沒有陣風相關要調查不然當初怎麼會到最後是得標我們也期待國人應該把錢花在刀口上也期待說找到一個好的廠商但結果千挑萬選選到一家這家廠商結果他原來是捷運系統經驗者沒有台灣傳統鐵路經驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15597.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15625.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
我跟委員報告齁,裡面講的這些問題齁,其實像剛剛講的他的團隊齁,現在他應該有做一些改組,我瞭解有做一些改組,也就是說西班牙這個的設計團隊現在已經不要他做了,那找比較熟悉的比較好溝通,目前應該走朝正面的方向在走。那現在就是穿著西裝改積裝嗎?對,是台鐵工程是比較沒那麼容易,對。 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15627.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15649.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
市長我想我還是希望是說這個計畫當初大家都講到世紀大標案就是因為台鐵從過去到現在沒有一次整合性的81億然後全台灣的號誌要做一個改變如果說能夠改變能夠一體當然好但現在重點在於是說過了兩三年之後看到這樣的一些問題而延宕了兩年來我們再看下一張喔我就一併講這個是在我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15660.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15684.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
應該是在國發會上面的一個執行計畫交通部洋洋灑灑計畫執行率其中裡面很多計畫你看鐵道技術研究驗證中心計畫執行率差了12%你看延伸相關的一些計畫執行率都是有差2、30%甚至還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15686.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15711.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
你看最後新車安全平等精進計畫應該現在預計執行率50%結果是0%執行我覺得這樣子不要讓外界覺得說交通部變成是延宕部不要讓外界覺得說交通部的執行錢到位了要人給人要錢給錢要台鐵從局變成公司也變了招牌也掛了 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15713.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15736.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
但是該做的事情要拿出來要做安全要精進那還有剛剛的80億的這個標案本席會持續的來關心已經延宕了兩年還有裡面有沒有人謀不章的部分該啟動調查請也啟動調查那次長你剛剛也講了有滾動檢討是不是是不是可以在這個禮拜 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15737.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15762.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
給本席一份資料針對這一個部分現在有做什麼樣的一個因應檢討以及預計什麼時候2028年之前你們現在做什麼樣的一個計畫調整去能夠確保2028年、2029年能夠完成是不是可以兩個禮拜可以嗎兩個禮拜可以但是重點在於是說要讓我們了解說到底現在出了什麼樣的問題那如果說最嚴重的話廠商 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15763.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15774.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
我們除了罰款除了他如果說一直不配合我不知道看起來他是溝通不良他明明是乙方但怎麼那麼囂張還在西班牙團隊還要逼我們去換設計團隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15776.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15794.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
真的感覺很奇怪我想這個跟委員報告現在臺鐵為了這個他成立一個PMO的一個小組由總經理我印象中是兩個禮拜就開始會那我想後續這部分我想會再督促臺鐵能夠再加速我了解啊但是81億人民的納稅錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15797.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15798.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
接下來邀請楊瓊英委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15823.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15825.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
謝謝主席,楊瓊瑩發言,想邀請次長。請五次長。 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15836.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15836.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
臺中山海環線 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15866.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15885.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
之前為了一些預算要怎麼樣去分所以卡關了當然我們臺中市政府也提出了非常大的善意盧市長我們的目標共同目標也就是希望趕快拍板定案那終於在這個1月份的時候由行政院指示 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15886.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15900.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
指示交通部告訴我們地方說必須要將這個案子分為三個指向那在2月份的時候我們也一直積極趕快送上來到目前為止這三個指向第一個大慶烏日段 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15902.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15905.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
臺灣鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15923.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15945.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
因為唯一加上的假後線的鐵路如果這一段加上來就真的是整個山海環線才是真正的到位所以我也感謝我們新增的這個努力所成的假後線的鐵路我們總共是14.3公里那麼高架的車站也增加三個位置換句話說整個假後線串聯起來才是真正的才叫做山海環線 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15952.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15981.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
那所以本席要請教到目前為止我們是在這個三個指向當中三個指向當中包括了大慶烏日段以及這個海線的這個雙軌及高降化的這個部分呢那麼現在由我們台中市政府做最後的修正那這個進度是如此所以我們如果送上來的時候就請交通部要趕快協助讓行政院來拍本定案 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15981.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
16000.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
那在這個三項指向當中,假後段的部分現在進程如何呢?請做說明假後段應該還沒有送上來才對,還在台中市政府我們都已經送上來,為什麼還沒送上來?怎麼差這麼大?怎麼會差這麼大呢?怎麼會差這麼大?在113年的對不對?2月23號裡面都已經三個項目已經送上來了假後線 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
16011.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
16017.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
甲厚縣總共14.3公里高架車站新增3個車站碼本校請問進度如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
16019.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
16047.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
跟委員報告那當初其實本來整個是一個計畫後來拆分成三個計畫那其中山縣跟海縣的部分交通部審查委員會是已經通過你是在3月29號來轉成行政院來審議那現在就是行政院還有一些意見你行政院6月27號下來給我們我們非常臺中市政府團隊非常積極我們最後趕快修正完依照你們所指示的趕快修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
16048.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
16076.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
修正完之後我們會趕快再轉報到行政院那甲後線的部分在部裡面其實是還沒有共識我想這一部分我們後續會再來跟台中市政府這邊來討論嘿!潘朵拉先開欸怎麼會如此呢?什麼部裡面還沒有共識?怎麼會如此?山線跟海線的部分過去交通部的審查委員會是已經審查同意那甲後線的部分是還沒有通過相關的審查程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
16077.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
16077.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
16105.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
16114.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
14.3公里預算351.14億啊預算長度工程長度都出來了啊所以本期要問你啊進度到底是怎麼樣啊你的框架已經出來你今天告訴我你們還沒有共識怎麼可以這樣欺騙我們台中人啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
16133.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
16162.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
不是我跟委員報告齁應該本來這是一個計畫現在變成三線海線還有甲二線甲二線是這三個都混搭開對變成三個指向現在這兩個三線海線大家比較有共識嘛所以現在請那個他不是共識他是繼承政策什麼叫做共識因為自從對那個經費上大家有比較大的歧見那個是執行細節次長請你搞清楚好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
16163.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
16169.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
你交通部是政策耶我連長度都告訴你14.3公里耶三座高架的車站耶總經費351.14億耶照比例分配耶你的比例分配都出來了耶嘿 你今天跟我說你們沒有共識這這到底怎麼回事啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
16187.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
16207.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
中四我必須分攤的在甲殼段是53.2%海線的部分42.5%對不對三線延伸的部分是56.19你連中央地方分配的預算都已經比例分配出來了都已經有了你告訴我沒有共識那怎麼回事啊市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
16212.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
16230.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
我這樣講之前在談這個假後線主要是因為它的經濟就財務的可行性是不是可以那時候大家比較不一樣一見所以才把這三個全部就把它拆分對啊你已經拆分你就是要政策要去執行啊所以本期要問你進度啊請教進度請教進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
16234.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
16249.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
你今天如果沒有假貨線串聯你就不是真正的叫做山海環線嘛對不對這是在你的大政策裡頭你已經將預算路線都已經規劃下去啊那你為什麼不執行請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
16254.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
16276.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
我們一個結論這三個指向前面兩個你們6月29告訴我們西部要修正我們台中市政府儘快修正請你們趕快要協助第三個指向甲後線如果沒有串聯起來它不是山海環線嘛那你已經預估351.14億而且三個高架車站總長度14.3公里我請你趕快去追進度好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
16283.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
16303.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
趕快拒絕進度好不好好不好你不要讓我嚇一跳怎麼沒有共識你已經都出來一個政府怎麼一個政策出來竟然告訴我沒有共識怎麼可以如此我再一次強調假後線串聯起來才真正叫做山海環線山海環線再一個一分鐘給我謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
16304.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
16326.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
市長、局長在這邊喔現在改制為公司今年1月份我們目前為止我覺得很緊張所以拜託主席給我這個一點時間喔我們今年1月到7月台鐵公司改為公司化呢585件事故在你們的出入口貼了一個什麼安全憲章 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
16327.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
16348.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
你們貼了一個安全憲章你改自為公司你竟然增加了4成的一個事故接下來你們有一個5年安全提升計畫5年安全提升計畫市長你在這裡你督導的你們改自為公司竟然你的事故增加4成這種回事什麼原因?要不要去進去? |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
16353.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
16368.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
結果論你的事故增加了4成你怎麼樣告訴我們的社會大眾你改字為公司市長你不了解這個數字我看你一頭霧水我就告訴你本席告訴你這個數字1月到7月585件比去年同期增加4成你會不會緊張會不會憂心啊要怎麼因應要怎麼因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
16376.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
16403.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
我想這部分剛剛提到了他的這個事件確實是比過去增加事成很恐怖耶對怎麼因應我們後續我想我再會再跟臺聯你把因應方案給本席好不好因為你們後天10月16號電費增加你們會增加多少錢成本我們成本出估應該會增加3億增加3億那我告訴你一句話10月22號 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
16405.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
16414.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
又是你們要審查要不要漲票價錯誤的能源政策不能轉嫁到我們的消費者市長你要不要承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
16415.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
16433.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
你要不要承諾?可以喔!10月22不能漲電價!你說的可以喔!我告訴你喔!錯誤的能源政策不能變相到我們的消費者!你告訴我們10月22號你那個會議我們會先跟委員報告我們先從我們的節電的部分結合對!所以10月22號你不能漲電價!不能漲票價!對不對?你剛才答應我的!你答應我我謝謝你!對不對?市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
16442.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
16453.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
我剛講的 對了 電價的 電費的部分我們剛才先從節能的部分處理好 所以不能變價來漲到價 這個我想我們會來努力啦會來努力達成喔 謝謝好 謝謝楊瓊英委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
16461.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
16467.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
王宏威委員、王宏威委員、王宏威委員、王宏威委員不在現場張祺凱委員、張祺凱委員、張祺凱委員、張祺凱委員不在現場林佩祥委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
16476.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
16494.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
林佩祥委員、林佩祥委員、林佩祥委員不在現場。接下來,邀請高津樹梅委員、高津樹梅委員、高津樹梅委員、高津樹梅委員不在現場。接下來,邀請鍾嘉斌委員、鍾嘉斌委員、鍾嘉斌委員、鍾嘉斌委員不在現場。接下來,邀請蘇金全委員。 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
16495.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
16518.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員不在現場。接下來邀請蔡易瑜委員、蔡易瑜委員、蔡易瑜委員、蔡易瑜委員不在現場。接下來邀請游皓委員、游皓委員、游皓委員、游皓委員不在現場。接下來邀請林月琴委員、林月琴委員、林月琴委員、林月琴委員、林月琴委員不在現場。接下來邀請劉建國委員、 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
16520.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
16547.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
劉建國委員．劉建國委員．劉建國委員不在現場接下來邀請葉元之委員．葉元之委員．葉元之委員．葉元之委員不在現場今天登記質詢的委員均已發言完畢做以下的決定報告及詢答完畢委員尤浩、邱若驊、劉建國還有林沛翔委員所提書面質詢列入紀錄並刊登公報 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
16548.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
16559.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
委員以質詢中要求提供相關的書面資料或未及答覆的部分﹐請相關的機關技術以書面答覆本次會議到此結束﹐現在散會謝謝 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-10-14T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部、交通部鐵道局、交通部運輸研究所、國營臺灣鐵路股份有限公司、台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司及國家運輸安全調查委員會就「臺灣鐵道安全提升計畫」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:14 - 13:08:00 |
| IVOD_ID |
16166 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16166 |
| 日期 |
2024-10-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-23-5 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期交通委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-10-14T08:30:14+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-10-14T13:08:00+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |