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| 委員名稱 |
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二、請主任秘書報告出席人數。報告委員會出席委員14人以主法定人數。好,現在我們來開會,進行報告事項,請宣讀上次會議議事錄。 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1888.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1892.551 |
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立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第3次全體委員會議議事錄時間113年10月7日星期一上午9時至下午1時56分地點紅龍202會議室出席委員蘇巧慧委員等14人列席委員李坤成委員等25人 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1903.965 |
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1925.777 |
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列席官員．內政部部長劉世芳及相關人員．法務部參事廖江縣．財政部國庫署副組長李信芬及相關人員．衛生福利部社會救助及社公司司長蘇昭儒及相關人員．文化部文化資產局綜合規劃組專門委員紀嘉琳及相關人員．行政院主計總處公務預算處檢任視察李培元．主席徐昭及委員新迎 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1926.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1944.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定討論事項一、殯葬管理條例審查委員丁學忠等16人、委員張家俊等29人、委員劉建國等16人、委員徐玉珍等18人、委員羅廷偉等17人及委員伍麗華等16人分別擬具殯葬管理條例第21條之一條為修正草案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1945.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1970.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
討論事項和並詢答委員張家俊等20人質詢由內政部部長劉世芳及相關人員答覆說明登記發言委員除不在場者外其餘均已發言完畢詢答結束委員高金、宿梅、傅坤啟所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報書面質詢及未及答覆部分請相關機關於一周內另以書面答覆並複製本會決議以上個案均另定期繼續審查條文修正動議及附帶決議均已宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1971.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1992.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
二、都市計劃法 審查委員廖偉祥等17人﹑委員楊瓊英等16人﹑委員黃建豪等19人﹑委員王玉明等17人及委員徐巧興等19人﹑分別擬據都市計劃法第83條之一條文修正草案案。審查委員林沛祥等20人﹑擬據都市計劃法第85條條文修正草案案。審查委員廖先祥等16人﹑擬據都市計劃法第19條及第82條條文修正草案案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1995.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2018.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
其審查委員羅廷慧等20人女居都市計劃法第83條之一條文修正草案案決議以上個案均令定期繼續審查條文未宣讀通過臨時提案二案其他事項通過臨時動議一案主席宣告本案預計於兩個月內再次排案處理故相關經費請內政部儘量於一個半月內協調相關部會及地方政府辦理宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2022.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2028.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
請問各位委員,上次會議議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏?無錯誤,議事錄確定繼續進行本日議程報告事項,請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2036.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2038.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
語言並存地位．及修正台灣台語政策進行專題報告．並備質詢。宣讀完畢。 |
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2065.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2082.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
本日議程所列報告事項合併詢答現在本席介紹在場委員以及列席的官員我們在場的委員我們有蘇巧慧委員李博義委員張志倫委員 |
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2090.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2117.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那我們在場的官員有我們客家委員會的主任委員古秀菲主委還有副主任委員范佐明副主委還有我們原住民族委員會主任委員曾志勇主委以及文化部政務次長李敬惠次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2121.069 |
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2138.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
好,我們今天還有財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長陳邦枕好,我們接著介紹客委會的主任秘書廖玉佩好,綜合規劃處處長陳瑞榮語言發展處處長孫瑜清 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2150.216 |
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2174.683 |
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產業經濟處處長江志成義文傳播處處長廖美玲客家文化發展中心主任何金良祕書室主任雷耀龍主計室主任林秀春人事室主任劉立貞 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2177.591 |
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2197.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
政風室主任 朱志明我們財團法人客家公共傳播基金會的總經理 莊盛宏原民會的教育文化處副處長 邱文龍原民會經濟發展處副處長 高文斌綜合規劃處專門委員 曾新中 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2208.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2236.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
社會福利處處長羅賀木路公共建設處檢任記政孟宗傑土地管理處代理處長張信良振豐市主任許碩珠文化部人文及出版司司長楊庭真 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2241.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2266.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
教育部中生教育司司長梁學正教育部國民及學前教育署國中小組的副組長蕭益智我們在場的委員黃建斌委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2268.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2275.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
在我們部會首長報告之前本席要在此嚴正的譴責今天列席的各部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2276.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2305.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我不知道各位是不是有看到我們開會通知單備註二請列席機關準備書面報告於113年10月7日中午12時前送120份至本會及盡送各出席委員辦公室一份這樣的一個說明我們內政委員會是10月1號就發文請列席的各部會10月7日下班前 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2307.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2321.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
中午12點以前能夠送書面報告我們這次排的這個會議議程安排比立法院各委員會都更提早也讓大家有更從容寬裕的準備時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2323.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2348.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所以本期希望我們盡早通知行政機關方便行政機關準備答詢內容所以我們也希望行政機關能夠正向的回應能夠在指定的時間內把報告送達立法院讓我們各委員的辦公室能夠充分的準備質詢也讓各委員辦公室的助理他們不用熬夜加班 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2350.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2376.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我們今天列席的部會、客委會還有客家傳播基金會、教育部都是到昨天中午才送達報告昨天是10月8號我們是10月7號要送達結果大家都10月8號才送達文化部更是昨天下午2點31分才送到 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2377.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2390.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那我們原名會是到昨天下午5點才送到那如果我們提早通知開會那各部會也還是拖延到最後一刻才送達書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2392.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2393.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2410.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2437.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
整個很不好的這種互動的示範所以本人擔任主席我一定都會儘早排定議程我們也會儘早的來通知行政機關所以下次如果部會在無視指定送達報告的時間故意延宕本席會要求各該部會追究責任要請大家注意好 那我們接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2439.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2444.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我們請客委會古秀菲主委來報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2458.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2484.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
主席、各位委員、各位同事 大家早安接下來我再做右報告及答詢 全程就用客語來做報告主席、國會委員 太閣後聲明 貴委員會邀請我到邀請客家委員會主管人若夫提出報告 非常永恆 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2486.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2492.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
三、貼佩、感謝國會委員、關心客家事務的發展：：以及對本府擁有推動的支持。四、本府委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2506.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2518.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
負責行為、採用客家文化、推動客家企業發展．強化客家青年的公共參與．屬面的報告請參考．以後就請你來做報告。三、我們應延續出權主流化的精神．在傳承客家．為了補充客家出權．文化圈及實體圈． |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2533.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2544.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
繼續來推動國家客家發展計劃：一二十四年到一二十七年：年修也要促進出流法的核心精神：來發揮客家的行政效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2545.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2560.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
三、提供客家用口記來提供學法．來懲罰共學的意識．是否符合所謂的口記．二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2570.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2570.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
密密密密密密密密密密密 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2579.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2601.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
行為最新的新聞報道和詞彙的教學。三、今年九月底,我們國防協會在看討中央的行動書籍的檔案做到用、合法、實在顯現。做到用講的,也做到用講的。今年九月已經提供民眾來使用了。四、我們看到… 主委主委,不好意思。 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2608.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2609.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2635 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2649.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
所以沒有提供我們口頭報告的書面 因為一般有我想大家不是第一次來立法院的一樣的內容 那我們改進一下那我要跟著你跳因為太長了 這個報告太長 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2660.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2677.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我在這裡說明我想各業務單位應該行政單位應該不是第一次來立法院立法院我們一般業務報告之外我們還會有口頭報告的順便報告方便委員們在你口頭報告的時候很快看一下你今天主要報告的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2677.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2679.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2695.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2700.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
財團法人客家公共傳播基金會就有口頭的業務報告有提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2713.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2715.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
三、推動東洋行業導用法學習,提供不僅行業生涯學校﹑行業屬意教育﹑推頒全行業優異研。 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2729.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2739.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我們每年每年一度促使,甚至於要成立行業社會強調的職業中心等等,也要透過各種各樣的方法來本身的做法提高場地度,同時來學習合法和客家文化 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2749.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2757.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2778.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2785.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
三、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2802.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2823.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
三、經營我們國泰及百力園市合作．推動客家文化發展計劃．以及推辦百貢政府展．都經營為自中共的成立五百一十七年的百貢政府展．中共替老年家和生育的窮客參與．多2.1億次 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2828.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2838.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
我們處理、種植、生育的意外．我們也侵犯、搶眼、供給世衛參與．我們同客委員、教育部、營運委員．共同來攀離海外搶眼、語言．引以的服務羊．以及攀離我們客家搶聲念、國際世衛訪問託． |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2853.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2867.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
也要在本、前面、在後上世界作為培養、過激光：透過跟國際事務、跨文化的交流：以及資源服務：來達到也要的功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2868.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2874.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
三、臺灣台語、文化部次長、教育部次長、教育部次長、教育部次長、教育部次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2892.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2893.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
三、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2906.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2928.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
三、臺灣大廈的黑色品牌哈佛．在行業、一般民間的社會．一般市民的身份地度．提供、研究、發展、創新、散品．及興業、廉潔．及培養和處理的人才．來參加國際賽事．還有明年參與客家的美食展． |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2934.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2960.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
盤利及民事秘書：希望臺灣也要設立董事做的本．及限顧有影響。第三點,我們推動企業的經濟發展．企業的建設．我們今年還提供推動的也要合作審法交流中心．所謂合作審法交流中心．我們提供跟傳統的分通中心、圖書館． |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2962.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2979.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
沿途重合、情緒、環境等等各種技能．結合之下．大致已適合所有人體和生活的環境．與繁殖及客家生活的文化交流重塑 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2981.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2985.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
三、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3008.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3020.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
其他創業與民間部隊組織合作做股東委婦工作。三、為教本提訪在地的協會叛逆。四、都在透過建築、藝術、設計等等﹐以客家族的歷史來展現出來。五、 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3037.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3053.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
我們在藝術推進方面：我們推工也在各種文化提升：也客家人應同提供童話劇：也在提防殺棄的樣子：也在傳統戲劇的演出：也在比賽：也在表演等等： |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3060.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3074.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
一不出本提供沙灘及民間政府和學校．來創造多元藝術文化表現．包括會請客家和其新高國的運動．及合唱比賽等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3075.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3099.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
在臺灣農業生育方面：我們可以提倡客家的品牌：有的品牌透過跟無窮用的進業團隊來合作：在養殖、在開發、在作品、過去高容量的查檢：以及集合在跟客家天司、客家傳播基金會、農友合作的基金會 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3101.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3105.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
透過它的進一步發展．去開發新的體制．公司體制．在作品中．會透過宋家．和OTT的養殖營．串流平台．來打印注入的媒體． |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3117.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3118.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
三、客家旅行委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3131.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3146.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
合作及合法在我們主流社會內呈現．包括在日本的奧運．我們也提出一個行事的法律．就是我們的線索模結式也在奧運的法律．在北太空．我們強化出權保護管的功能． |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3156.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3173.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
過去以來,都以下我們一直推動文字保存及研究調查的工作。我們繼續修飾客家文物及文獻,都已滿貫重,已經有一萬五千兩千。 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3175.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3180.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
官場的電廠要簽署有920件,總共有12,000件除了電廠研究調查以外﹐我們也正合併要調查一整個律程法保護管的交流功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3193.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3205.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
要交流：不僅是國內的交流：是國際的交流：持續來到日本及立民族學博物館：做國際的交流的展覽 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3206.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3212.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
除了在國際的保管資源的交流展覽以外：我們也正合會採取的執念：曾經實施提念提供客家文化：就在根據所有研究調查的勝過： |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3227.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3249.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
內間應提防的沙團．及鄉鎮公所合作．及團體合作．以推出、衝突、提言．合作歷史、文化及信任．透過用客家文化為主．以開發、發展．及繁建教育的課程．提供客家文化提言及教育法律． |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3251.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3258.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
二、我們對於公共的、強硬的、隱私的、創新的：企業的、國際的、民意的：客家的面相：若落實賴總統：客家六件的政策：以及我們的威樂也會成立：客家強硬諮詢委員會：希望作為黨黨合成的：上院：若奔擴導人：若隱私客家 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3279.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3281.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3304.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3307.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
主委請客家委員會主委聯同我們今天專題報告的來可以接續報告,謝謝好,森盟主席、森盟國會議員、金委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3328.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3334.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
內政委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3359.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3366.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
二、客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3381.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3404.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
在國家語言正體內講,在1909年﹐文化部就完成業務語言調查在1910年﹐五年十四日﹐在波行政院審查,審查透過﹐文化部在1910年﹐主修改替白人國家語言發展編譯 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3407.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3412.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
後來添添的國家語言整體發展方案。根據之前的調查﹐各種語言的名稱﹐或因爲歷史的變化﹐語言使用的習慣﹐來擅長導用的名字﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3429.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3432.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
若倒用的名字都有其存在的價值及意義若遵從國促權對於其該名稱的認定． |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3439.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3450.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
以及來批准各國民間的學術資料：一共有28種國家語言的稱呼。三、國家語言發展整體方案由文化部、教育部、人民費及本費來共同執行。二項方面應援有321億。 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3466.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3471.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
針對國家語言書面使用的規範：行政院提121年8月22日已經有內涵：內本所有的國普費：未來也在國家語言發展的其他書面：該參考國家語言整體發展方案的書面 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3488.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3492.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3515.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3536.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
兩位經濟文化部的調查．部分人說設計好路法為台語．名的設計案本非尊重各族群對於設計語言的稱呼．但是也尊重所有族群人對於其他族群人的稱呼 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3538.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3548.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
主張客家族群臣服、喉嚨族群．那些表現到臺灣保養、獨眼的價值。一百一十三年﹐六年二十 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3554.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3561.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
文化部也有訪問：來見識全面也要適用國家語言的名稱：所以頭先講的有限來適用以外：還有可以參照適用建議的語言：要建議語言有幾多種：包括臺灣台語、臺語、臺灣面南語：臺灣漢語、漢語等等： |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3583.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3605.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
各種名稱：在內：各機關：也可依時求同語言的反應：來適用各個語言發展法所列的各種書面建議用意。故所亦可以講：是一個開放的態度：就不為意可以使用每一種語言：每一種語言都可以使用： |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3611.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3622.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
所以讓語言的名稱有它的歷史性、文化性：最近有叛逆歸多重的規格語言論壇：我們為修飾國防的意見、納入、政策的參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3629.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3641.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
最後：客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3653.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3658.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3676.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3702.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
國族群的語言文化要從相互尊崇及理解和共同來發展．經過從其的共同、理解、爭取與共識．其他國家可以來正視與語言傳承的危機．正合國族群的理論、特價來互相合作．來振興推動本土語言的復振 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3703.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3721.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
感謝各位委員、每一位委員各位對客家事務的關心：繼續來支持本市推動各方的客家事務：以送報告向各位委員職高、聖母、安之社、羅蘭、杜恰好,謝謝谷主委接下來請原民會曾主委志勇報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3741.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3760.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
主席、各位委員還有我們客家還有研閩會各位同仁大家早安以下就本會對這個專案這個專題報告做一個最簡要的比較簡要的報告那麼在 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3762.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3789.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
2017年我們的臺灣的原住民族語言的這個發展法他在6月14號公布來施行那麼這一條法開宗明義就講希望能夠更多的保障原住民的語言然後希望徹底的翻轉了這個臺灣原住民的語言的一個確定性那麼它可以說是 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3790.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3808.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
成為第一個就是說確定臺灣原住民語言是國家的語言的一個法例然後一直到了2019年之後又制定了這個國家語言發展法那麼這個國家語言發展法更確定了就是說更多的這個這個機會更多的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3814.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3833.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
更徹底的規定了臺灣原住民的這個語言要運用、怎麼樣運用、怎麼樣來實行那特別是在2022年制定了這個國家語言的這個發展方案在這個發展方案它更是預注了更多的這個經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3834.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3847.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
在原住民族的這個保存原住民族的語言還有在擴大原住民族的這個活動方面給很多的機會還有在原住民族語言的這個族語認證還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3850.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3875.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
對原住民族語言的這個友好環境比如說對這個希望各原住民鄉的這個代表會也好鄉公所也好他們的書寫甚至以代表會的這個環境可以用口譯來直接來進行這個用自己的族語直接來開會甚至以公民的書寫都能夠得到很多很多的幫忙最後在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3882.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3905.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
這個對這個臺灣台語這個議題來講我想我們各族群在這個方面我們相信各族都有各族的歷史性跟文化性而且這個這樣的一個議題也是透過我們行政院召開邀請很多的會議做的一個決定那麼一樣的在嚴明會的立場我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3906.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3922.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
對這樣的一個議題是競表尊重因為各族有各族的歷史性而且還有它的文化性至於它要怎麼樣被稱作什麼樣的語言在原住民的立場來講我們是尊重以上報告 謝謝好 謝謝曾主委接下來請文化部李政務次長進會報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3937.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3963.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
主席、各位委員、各位先進、大家好今天很榮幸應大院內政委員會之邀．就臺灣台語 名詞是否符合國家語言定義．是否侵犯台灣其他語言並存地位．及修正台灣台語政策提出報告並備詢在此代表文化部．感謝各位委員對文化施政的鼎力協助與支持以下報告內容敬請各位委員指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3964.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3987.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
語言是文化的靈魂．語言也承載了文化．失去了語言．也就失去了文化．過去不當的國語運動政策．導致了多數的本土語言．面臨了不同程度的傳承危機．為了挽救語言傳承的危機．同時也因應國際上人權理念．推動語言文化權的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3988.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4004.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
在大院的支持下：在108年我國公布實施《國家語言發展法》依照《國家語言發展法》第三條規定國家語言細指臺灣各固有族群使用之自然語言及臺灣手語 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4006.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4032.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
臺灣各固有族群．就指的是既存於臺灣且包含各離島地區．並受國家統治管轄之傳統族群先做以上的說明本部依照《國家語言發展法》規定．在109年首次辦理了面臨傳承危機國家語言的調查透過室內電話及手機的訪問方式．共完成了大概7萬份的一個有效樣本 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4033.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4056.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
會政調查結果及相關語言學術資料在110年提出了《國家語言發展報告》說明國家語言的現況跟發展歸納了面臨傳承危機國家語言的種類以及提出相關的附贈措施根據這份語發報告目前各國家語言的種類包括有聽覺型的語言有6種包括了華語、臺灣原住民語言 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4062.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4081.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
臺灣平埔族群語言、臺灣客語、臺灣台語、馬族語．還有一個是視覺型的語言．是臺灣手語．並經研究單位比對聯合國語言的活力指標．除了華語之外．我們其他的國家語言都屬於面臨傳承危機的國家語言． |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4082.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4092.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
為了使政府機關能夠順利推動相關的語言附贈工作：我們在這份報告裡面提出了關於口語名稱：還有書面建議用語等兩種建議名稱 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4095.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4121.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
名稱的部分：我們彙整了各種民間自稱：還有學術的資料：共歸納出有7類28種的國家語言稱謂：那這個部分：就尊重各界在口語上：可以自由使用那書面建議用語：就族群和諧：還有尊重多元文化發展的角度：我們用並列的方式提出了這個：面臨傳承危機語言的一些書面建議用語 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4122.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4137.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
依照國際人權標準．還有聯合國的各項決議．還有主流國家近年來主要的採取做法．都建議應該所謂的民從主人．尊重使用者的自稱的原則．以表示對該族群基本人權的尊重． |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4138.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4154.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
有關臺灣台語命名的理念．依照本部的語言調查．因為大部分使用這個語言的使用者．他們的認同80%都自稱為臺語．可是又基於兼顧各族群．不想被排除在臺灣語言之外． |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4156.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4172.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
還有尊重各族群對語言的自稱這兩項原則：所以本部在《國家語言發展報告》上面就提出了總共用並列的方式有6類12種的語言名稱那同時行政院在111年8月22日合訂了《國家語言發展報告》 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4177.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4193.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
並含釋為展現國家語言推動的一致性．未來國家語言發展報告或其他文書資料．應參酌國家語言整體發展方案書面用語有關的規範．優先使用臺灣原住民族語言．臺灣客語、臺灣台語．馬族語及臺灣手語 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4198.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4216.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
後來經過行政院再繼續持續召開機關的研商會議：又補充了書面建議用語的使用原則：應該先尊重既定法令的用語名稱：比如《客家基本法》、《原住民族語言發展法》所使用之客語及原住民族語言 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4217.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4241.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
那所指的優先使用：是指的在同一文件中為求一致及整體性：這可以參照我們剛剛所提的第一組的書面建議用語那可視各機關人可視實際的需求：還有語言的環境：斟酌選擇使用國家語言發展報告中所列的各種書面建議用語 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4242.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4268.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
臺灣台語的命名是將臺語視為一個專有名詞：而非指涉臺灣的所有語言。臺灣台語是國家語言之一：它的地位跟其他的包括臺灣原住民族語言、臺灣平埔族語言：臺灣客語或是馬族語、臺灣手語都是同樣的地位：並沒有侵犯臺灣其他語言並存的一個意圖。那本部要再次的強調 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4269.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4296.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
臺灣台語、臺灣客語這等等都是國家語言發展法所保障的面臨傳承危機的國家語言同時我們也為了回應金門的鄉親他們希望能夠脫離臺語的範疇他們有提出希望能夠用金門話來自稱這個部分我們也會予以尊重在月底的語發大會當中提出這樣一個建議然後再討論能不能定案 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4297.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4322.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
本部將本於《國家語言發展法》主管機關的職責．協同各目的事業主管機關及地方縣市政府．秉持多元、平等、保存、發展之理念．全力支持語言的復振．語言傳承及發展．還有族群溝通與交流．懇請各位委員持續的鼎力支持．並給予指教謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4328.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4331.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
其他單位的報告請委員們自行參閱並刊登公報現在進行詢答委員質詢前原例作幾點宣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4340.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4364.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
第一每位委員發言時間本會委員5分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘非本會委員5分鐘上午12點截止發言登記臨時提案截止提出時間11點與本會委員詢答完畢後處理請問各位同仁有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4368.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4387.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
現在沒有意見 那現在進行詢答我們請登記第一位的蘇巧慧委員發言好 謝謝主席 我們請客委會谷主委好 請谷主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4392.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4394.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
主委,你好主委,你好主委,你好 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4422.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4439.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
再來我們再輸用華語．這樣不知道主委覺得可以嗎?報告委員還有主席．我接下來因為委員的要求．我用法語看主席采詩好,可以我是這樣想．確實這是因為歷史的關係你看我現在全程使用臺語．我也是可以只是我們剛剛在討論另外一條．一時間有點羞怕感 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4449.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4473.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
但我覺得語言最重要的就是要能夠使用並且活用所以其實今天我還是想跟主委來討論一下的其實是我們對客語的政府如何、狀況如何首先我想請問主委像您能夠這麼流利的使用客家話必定是從小就有學習嘛那如果你認為現在的孩子現在的孩子 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4475.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4487.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
到底是在非客家莊長大的客家人有客家血統的客家人比較會說客語還是在客莊長大的非客莊人比較會使用台語這是客語 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4488.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4492.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
目前我又講客語了沒關係啦其實我剛剛發現我都聽得懂還蠻妙的我試試看用客語啦好啊好啊在客庄裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4507.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4512.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
事實上是這樣 為什麼 因為就是語言的關係我認為我自己本身 主委剛剛您的客語發言將近八成以上是能夠理解的狀況其實也是因為我有屏東這樣生長環境的過程我們在屏東有使用客語的習慣我的父母 我的父親因為工作的關係 客語非常流利 所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4530.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4533.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
我們在家裡也會這樣使用所以環境對一個人的學習語言其實才是最重要的所以我也看到其實是客委會在這段時間以來其實多年以來我們國家的政策就是一直在塑造家庭以外的客語環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4547.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4574.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
所以不管是課與生根服務計劃﹑課與沉浸式教學計劃﹑課與生活學校計劃等等都是在塑造環境沒有錯吧對不對主委那我想請問一下這個課與生根服務計劃你們現在的重點會是在你們的誘因啊或者是成效你自己的評價如何我想這樣就是課與生根服務計劃是我們跟縣市政府跟新船師一起合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4574.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4581.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
是跟縣市政府嘛對不對是所以說縣市政府舉辦起來會不太一樣好那您再說簡要的說一下簡要的說就是透過新傳師跟孩子孩子的課與生跟服務計畫對對要新傳師開課 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4592.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4614.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
開課要有孩子來學所以這個其實是有基礎長期以來在培養孩子的對,所以其實你們做了很多但我剛剛給你看就是您在說的這個課語班的部分我們發現這幾年以三年為例就好了課語班的開設學員是增加的表示有興趣的人是多的可是我們要怎麼檢核他們到底會不會講呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4616.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4638.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
需不需要來看看說這個班到底有沒有效呢那我想來想去能夠通過的一個方法是什麼就是有沒有去參加課語認證並且有沒有通過嘛所以我們再來看參加班學習班的人數增加可是去報考課語認證的人呢其實是下降的而且是今年是參加的課語考證的人數是近三年來一個新低這樣的狀況所以你對這樣的現象有什麼樣的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4646.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4665.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
學習的人數成長但考照的人數下降因為考試還是有難度我覺得最重要的其實還是誘因你要不要原民會主委在旁邊問一下我們原民會的學生、原住民族的學生學生去考族語認證的有多少?幾成? |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4668.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4675.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
將近九成吧九成嘛 因為如果沒有去考他還會一直寄通知單來問你要不要考啊因為我孩子就是這樣啊對啊 那客家孩子有這樣要求要通過客語認證嗎沒有 沒有嘛那為什麼要這樣子呢因為 主委可以 原民會主委謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4684.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4704.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
所以為什麼會這樣就是考到這個證照到底有沒有作用這個證照之後到底可以帶來什麼效益會決定了這一張證照到底有沒有人想去考講白了就是這樣因為事實上準備考試是一件很重要的事情如果我們今天在這裡跟大家說客委會的所有的這個服務同仁要通過客語認證 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4706.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4720.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
而且要是中、高級才能夠來客人會服務我相信這個考照的人數一定大幅增加所以剛剛我看到客人會同仁其實站起來的時候都是用客語回答非常感謝都以身作則都是會使用母語的 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4721.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4742.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
那再講更實際一點啦因為剛剛的這種法規一定不會通過因為大家一定會說這會影響到工作權等等好 那我如果這樣講我剛剛在跟李柏毅委員開玩笑啊那你如果立法委員要代表你的選區裡面有客家中的立法委員要求要會客語才能夠有參選資格這個大家一定去考啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4742.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4756.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
那也不要說這麼嚴重啦那如果我們用鼓勵性質我們不要用懲罰性質我們用鼓勵性質的啦所有要參選立法委員的候選人如果會講客語初選加10%要不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4757.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4773.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
要靠嗎?一定靠的啊!集隊靠的啊!你看我們每個人都一定會講啊!各位SUPERBOMB會給表演三個好朋友來：立法院、蘇卡菲、森文特卡、拜託特卡!超級會的!每一個人都會啊!對不對?所以這就是有用、需要用嘛! |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4774.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4797.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
所以我檢視了您今天的業務報告裡面其實在有用的部分我希望能夠再加強因為我的時間只有一部分所以我是提升第一個它的有用的程度不管是在考照、證照之後的有用或者是客語的有用是最重要的這樣非客家人也一定會去學第二個我也想跟主委分享主委,你有問過年輕人為什麼他們現在都在學泰語、韓語 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4800.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4815.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
一個潮流對啊 潮流嘛 就追星嘛我小時候也要學日文啊我還用波波夢在拼日文啊我也不知道我在唱什麼但是我就會想學啊所以是追星所以你能不能夠創造客家的民心你現在在影視圈有你說打造客劇 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4816.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4832.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
好,可是我覺得啦,我支持有客劇但我認為這個歌曲的影響力更是無遠弗屆當年有羅時鋒,所以現在所有的人都會生黑暗講那前幾年有羅文玉,所以大家又都抓了一句有寒來溜,是寶了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4835.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4848.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
因為這個就是歌曲的魅力所以一個明星可以帶動的是更多尤其是歌曲類的所以我認為你在預算的分配上面其實可以是打造客語明星的部分可以再加強最後我還是覺得是從小親近是最好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4851.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4867.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
親近的意思是就算我這一時間一時片刻沒有把它學起來但我就是有這個基礎我就是有這個根底我其實再重新拾回來這個母語的技能其實是很容易的所以我再一次我已經在這裡多次的強調我認為客委會在補助客家社團的時候如果這些社團是有辦親子活動的應該要大力給予補助讓孩子從小能夠親近我認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4878.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4895.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
這是比你在學校開更多的班或者是你在這邊那邊做任何的計畫你寫了這篇通篇我認為就只有三件三個點是讓我們的母語能夠重新活在這個社會上最好的三個原則就是有用、夠潮 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4898.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4918.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
從小清淨就是這三點所以未來我也會秉持這三個原則再跟客委會做更多的討論我想客委會存在的目的就是維繫傳承客家文化所以我希望能夠從語言開始好,感謝委員,再同意要勸發這三點請客委會參考非常清楚易懂,謝謝好,謝謝蘇巧慧委員接下來請張志倫委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4935.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4942.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
主席好各位委員各位官員大家早安是不是有請我們谷主委請谷主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4948.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4967.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
主委好上次我們見面是在新北市的藝名祭主委特別有到新北市來關心所有客家的族群本席在這邊先對您表示感謝也對您最近有來立法院很親特別來跟所有委員分享一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4969.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4995.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
客家委員會尤其主委新的這個114年度整體的預算有些來說明本席在這邊對你致上敬意感謝委員英國也很愛英國的座位接下來本席要來請教這個主委的部分就是說第一個要請教主委就是現在我們這個客委會有一個叫做客家文化重點發展區的部分那客家文化重點發展區是根據客家基本法第6條的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4997.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5000.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5017.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5046.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
網站還是一些媒體上有特別來去排名就是說客家人全臺灣最愛涉及的區域的排行前10名的一個部分那這邊本席要跟這個主委報告的是這前排名天20名的部分有10名我們這邊有打勾有10個打勾的區域現在就是因為他的人口沒有到達三分之一可是他的人數是多的所以已經佔了二分之一的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5047.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5052.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5068.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5087.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
全這個鄉鎮區的比例．可是沒有以人數的多寡．來做一個相關的這個．可以照顧更多我們的客家族群．是不是我想說．這個部分是不是請這個主委．未來這個標準的部分．有沒有機會來做一個調整．以人數的方面來做調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5088.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5092.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
感謝委員 從前發展期那是所有的傳統、學衆的期位因為它更失蹤 故所謂的從前發展期沒有錯 委員說的沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5106.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5111.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
學年、事業、不同的學種的所在、國度的：但是以分散：所以藝術委員會主事客家：分散的客家：,針對分散的客家：,我們目前為止：：無法討起天意與不同的學種：,目前是沒有的：,但是我們在政策當中：,對不同學種的學年： |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5129.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5132.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
我們要去適用到政策運用的下渡藥品：沒錯,各位同仁,我們要注意到目前我們所使用的方法就是透過學校、砂塘及客家的鄉親去接觸內藏語言文化的法通藥物、傳承藥物提供阿天那間的地圖是甚麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5154.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5171.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
主委不好意思那我要針對接下來第二個問題齁我大概理解您的說法齁就是說第一個就是說以這個客家人聚集多的那第二個當然本席希望說人數多的你也要來考慮喔是不是多來照顧因為我要疊到第二個問題的部分就是說因為它這個如果是 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5173.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5179.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5193.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5220.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
所以本席也是希望說臺北市、新北市應該也要來多設一些這些博工這個發展區因為博工發展區有非常多的好處不僅有親子之間的一個互動我相信對文化語言的傳承就像剛剛巧慧委員講的大家要更親密因為像我本身我小時候其實那時候我在學校沒有講台語可是我的阿嬤常常跟我講說就是叫我要學閩南話要學台語這樣才能跟她溝通拿點零用錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5221.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5222.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5239.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5242.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
感謝委員 委員說到這點 目前我們有在討論要在國台上判例包括不可以在三十八以上的客家提起 要感謝委員的建議主委 謝謝 我大概理解您的意思 我們就一起共同起來努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5256.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5258.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5285.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5293.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
客家的輸入法以及後端資源的資料庫：大概花了客委會多少的經費：以及現在的使用人數、下載人數大概是多少? |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5315.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5344.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
差不多有三千五百三下載當然沒有多所以我們要做那個宣傳跟那個APP要宣傳出日本他當然要了解好 謝謝所以我要跟主委報告的就是說第一個這個已經花七年的時間了不管是一開始APP建立跟後面的資料庫是花了很多的人力跟物力跟心力跟納稅錢那現在下載的人數還不夠多那本席這邊可以提供你兩個小小的建議讓你來參考第一個是它的輸入法 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5344.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5372.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
其實不是那麼容易去轉換如果你現在使用這個我經過一些使用者給我的建議現在使用這個輸入法以後基本上它只能一直用客語的這個輸入法去輸入它沒有辦法切換成其他種語言連英文都沒辦法去輸入所以使用者上是有點點的不是那麼的方便第二個它好像過去有個叫錄音功能的現在的我自己本身很多使用者也回覆我說現在錄音功能是無法使用的那個使用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5373.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5395.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
的那個功能好像是壞掉的所以拜託主委這邊就是已經花了那麼多時間人力物力這邊這個APP的部分一定要再精進一下好不好好感謝委員提供意見好謝謝我對我對客家委員會主委高度的評價現在我現在是不是可以請這個原委會的曾主委感謝委員好請曾主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5399.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5423.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
主委好不好意思主委請你上台時間的關係我是第一次有機會站在質詢台跟你請教現在大家都知道現在這個行政院114年度的總預算現在是在這個立法院院會被退回的這個情況主委應該非常了解這個情形最大徵提的點當然就是進法補償條例三讀通過可是這個這個委員會沒有編列應該的預算那我先請教主委時間的關係第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5429.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5441.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
這個主委認為這個禁法補償每公頃應該補助三讀通過的應該補助6萬元的部分每公頃補助6萬元的部分就你主委本身也是這個原住民的代表你認為是否應當 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5442.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5459.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
我跟委員報告這個計劃補償是一下子從3萬變6萬請問你覺得該不該列到6萬因為你族委原住民的身份你覺得應不應該補償我是認為應該逐步啦現在3萬變4萬你的逐步是什麼逐步因為原來是從2萬然後變3萬我是說三族通過從6萬漲到3萬漲到6萬你覺得應該補助到多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5469.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5489.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
現在就是說我們希望就是我們預算有編到4萬那其他的部分我想我們是狀況啦好那我再請教一下齁當然昨天的總質詢喔卓院長特別在質詢的時候他突然脫口而出啦我相信應該是口誤啊他認為編到6萬塊是浪費工奴那你的想法跟他一致嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5490.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5505.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
不是啦 不是浪費公帑所以你覺得卓院長是口誤是不是應該是 因為不是說還是說這是你私下跟他講好的 覺得這也是浪費公帑不是不是 就說是一下子變到從3萬一下子到6萬不是浪費公帑 就說這個是不是一下子進得太 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5506.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5532.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
太多了太快了這樣子在最後一個問題請教星期五大家都知道新聞有講要吃和解飯那請問一下就人民會的立場你們現在退回後有沒有準備要重編這個禁法補償的這個預算你們有沒有再準備了不然禮拜五吃飯要談什麼因為我們可以視狀況在基金的部分來看怎麼樣來做所以說你是不是可以你現在這邊可不可以提供你現在想的解決方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5533.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5561.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
我現在只能說就是我們已經有編到4萬那至於怎麼樣那基金這邊是狀況所以你現在沒有任何的想法沒有任何的解決方案嗎是現在是就有一個沒有任何解決方案我們公務跟基金一起來看怎麼樣來用但是我現在就是預算是編到4萬嘛那基金是是狀況可是法令三讀通過是編到6萬所以你還是堅持現在的預算的編列不打算任何的調整也不打算溝通基金是狀況嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5562.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5582.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
是什麼狀況就是兩邊就是看怎麼樣也是看就是怎麼樣來怎麼樣來談怎麼樣來弄看後面我們已經有編到4萬塊基金是狀況這樣來調度所以沒有任何新的解決方案從預算被退回以後到現在沒有新的解決方案是是是好那以上好謝謝你謝謝好謝謝張志倫委員接下來請李博義委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5598.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5601.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
來請谷主委好 請主委谷主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5605.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5628.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
主委好在高雄市議會跟你質詢的時候我們沒有用過客家話今天帶著耳機來讓你用客語來回應我的這些質詢感謝委員謝謝我剛才其實一直在看這個我們一直想到一個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5630.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5650.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
我們其實橋委會針對海外僑胞其實不斷的有在各個海外比如說美國或者是澳洲那甚至歐洲那不斷的跟這些我們橋界有一些互動那有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5653.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5673.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
我自己小學的同學他們在國中的時候移民到澳洲但是我小學曾經跟他們回到他們的客家莊就是屏東某一個客家莊他們家的教育其實對我的同學非常非常注重客語 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5675.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5682.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
所以我這一代我的同學他40幾歲了但是他移民到澳洲之後澳見了他的小孩 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5682.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5706.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
他小孩現在是連國語都講得很吃力現在是我們連臺灣話也講得很吃力更不要說客語所以在這邊也想要建議客委會這邊是不是能主動的來跟我們僑委會這邊有一些聯繫如果僑委會在各個在尤其是在海外有相關的交流活動的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5706.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5724.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
我們是不是客委會也可以派員去這個對海外尤其是客家子弟來講我覺得是一個非常溫暖那甚至可以跟他們交流看看他們的下一代有沒有機會有沒有機會再學習客語來主委你有沒有這樣的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5724.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5729.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
好,感謝委員的建議,沒錯,要在海外天衣推或天衣推．要在韓國南學習．要在韓國南學習．要在韓國南學習．要在韓國南學習．要在韓國南學習．對,對,例如 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5749.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5772.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
臺灣也辦一些活動在他們最常回來臺灣的時間讓他們有學習客語的機會感謝委員提供意見我們也要奉勸我們能夠支持在客家基本法裡面我們規範什麼叫客家人臺灣現在我們這樣概括的來算的話客家民族應該有466萬人口佔 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5776.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5800.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
臺灣人口接近百分之二十我以高雄市為例高雄市佔客家人口最…客家比例最高的當然是美農但是客家人口最多的卻是鳳山也就是剛才蘇巧慧委員在講的如果說會講客語的話初選的部分要不要加10%也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5801.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5829.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
如果這個地區的客家人口多那我們要推廣相關的客家包含這個地區的公務人員是不是要有相關的這些會客語的這些人口當然包含語言的評鑑等等的這些我想這是科委會接下來要繼續努力的方向跟目標那接下來我請這個原民會主委感謝委員的支持感謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5838.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5861.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
謝謝請曾主委我可以不用戴耳機了好像比較輕鬆剛剛感覺好像在講外國話這個是我必須要檢討的客家話不好那其實現在主委是你有使用過CHAT GPT嗎還沒他這是一個現在年輕人最喜歡最慣用的一個APP這個APP我剛剛問他 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5862.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5880.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
你會不會講臺灣原住民語他講的說他會齁他大概有五種阿美語、泰雅語、布農語、排灣語、魯凱語那要怎麼學習我就問他我如果要學習阿美語我有什麼方法齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5881.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5906.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
哇,他列了好多種,我覺得可能會答得比主委還要厲害喔他說,參加語言課程、各地原住民、文化中心、社區大學、語言APP、網上資源等等的他有一共列了六、七種給我那其中有講到的就是我們原民會推出來的臺灣原住民語言學習APP |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5910.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5930.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
對,這個APP的使用上我們還是希望可以在這個尤其是園鄉我們的原住民的小朋友們的這個推廣程度我覺得園民會還是可以做相關的這些推廣尤其有一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5932.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5947.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
你要推廣這個APP你也要在原鄉裡面的這個相關的這些網路的設備跟地方政府要有相關的合作要去推廣進你有APP可是原民的小朋友有沒有辦法使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5947.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5965.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
他有沒有IPAD可以使用他IPAD有沒有網路可以使用這個其實都是建議原民會可以多把資源放在這一些小孩身上主委你有沒有這樣的機會我們願意這樣子來做啦有一些預算原民會增加的這一些預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5966.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5983.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
其實我們都希望它可以擴大給更多的原民來使用而不是單就一項比如說禁法補償條例提高當然很好但是提高整個提高的這些預算的額度到底普發 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5986.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5999.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
給進法的人還是說可以更廣泛的來推廣原民的相關的業務我覺得這是原民會主委你必須要去正視這一個問題尤其這個禮拜五可能是朝野 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5999.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6020.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
要針對進法補償條例這個預算來做相關的協商的時候主委你應該要有一套你的想法可以好好的讓我們這一場朝野讓明年度的總預算可以順利的來進行是有沒有想法好有有沒有想法有有 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6020.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6046.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
因為多出來的預算假如多出來我們可以做很多事情除了語言還有是不是對原住民的特別是像今年的奧運六面獎牌原住民就拿了三面那我們想說是不是這樣的部分我們也願意分攤一點體育部就是我們專對原住民的選手來看怎麼樣來從小來培養來運作這也是一個辦法很好好 主委請你加油謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6060.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6061.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
麥玉珍委員主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6081.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6092.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
好 謝謝我們主委因為我媽媽也是客家人每次去到她的村莊 別人阿嬤 你說我女兒在喊人對 所以問我 你說我女兒在喊人對 所以常常都會聽到這句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6099.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6117 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
所以今天我們要想來跟主委請教一下我們7月份我們的楷米颱風創造的我們的就是客家莊我們客家委員會就成立的 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6118.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6123.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
災害救助服務辦公室希望大家可以來諮詢、來申請補助但是這次我們的颱風來的時候我們就找不到說我們的客委會這邊針對這次的災情 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6136.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6137.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
行政委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6148.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6150.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
有朋友再問,要請教一下。蓋米颱風落在世界營業更嚴重,所以我們馬上就成立要服務轉先,要轉先用合法服務天使、民眾一體所擁有的尊重的項目,包括農村、有的原住民, |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6174.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6178.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
應適的部署等等提供質詢．改天是填表格。故所謂我們提宗師有助．此我們看到．他沒有提撇在審理中．因爲宗師有要經驗．不過我們內地也在討論．要繼續以後的格式．有要填言在下．要來成立要負負準先 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6202.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6209.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
感謝馬委員和民眾的支持,我們願意以英國語記書做夢雖然是沒有成立,但是現在的災情也進步很多地方所以很嚴重,所以希望如果沒有成立,但是可以這樣比照辦理的話,也是對我們的收債戶有更大的幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6232.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6247.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
二、客語是我們國家重要語言之一很可惜我沒有跟媽媽學到因為從小到大都跟阿嬤住在一起所以就講廣東話 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6248.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6275.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
所以這個部分在我們上一屆客家語言發展法：最後沒有三讀通過但我知道客家委員會一直在客語推廣都很努力今年客委會增加2000萬預算在客語上文化的宣傳希望進一步保障人民使用語言的權利也提高客語使用力 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6276.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6280.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
請問我們明年再可以如何推廣．讓我們更有一步的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6285.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6294.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
感謝麥委員 莫名聰有一年六十幾年一百五年有四十六趴一百一十年只有三十八趴：所以其實以那說下來：所以我們要透過各種方法：包括教育的方法：包括法律的方法：也提供地方政府合作：沙團的合作等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6313.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6317.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
最主要還是語言的意識,語言的意識要培養,即使語言的意識,但語言的創意也有可能,學習、語言留下來,所以培養語言意識,目前我們在創意做的,我們用的培養也有方法,也按我們目前的權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6339.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6360.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
所以我們也希望就是因為說人不親土親嘛因為語言上有溝通有聽到的話大家都覺得這個是很棒但是在另外我注意到就明年就是我們的實施的目標在跨海就是在國外因為我有去在越南也有很多客家他們也有成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6361.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6388.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
一個客家協會所以他們是在國外是有成立但是在國外成立是只是自己成立而已沒有立案所以在台灣這邊有沒有認同他們這個組織也可以協助他們的話是最好因為他們是在那邊是自己組織但是政府不准立案所以在台灣這邊如果能協助的話是這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6389.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6414.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
就是請我們主委多多要去幫忙所以看要怎麼樣在各個國家他們是組成一個組織的但是要如何去協助他們在地也可以推廣因為每個人都說要回來台灣來交流這個是有限但是在地他們去推廣的話才是真正的保留我們的文化這個部分所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6418.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6425.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
下一代的推廣才能叫做傳承,這樣主委有認同嗎?我認同貓鼻眼的說法所以最後想要請問一下,因為我們最近 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6434.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6450.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
很多在網路上都會看到說有一個新聞很多就是利用我們的客委會裡面的一些推廣的文化、民意希望在裡面工作還有在這樣子的當講師所以就盜用這樣子的照片、影片在網路就是成立很多的粉絲團 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6458.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6465.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
還有就是要怎麼樣去應聘這樣的詐騙手法現在有很多不知道這個主委你有沒有知道因為這樣對我們的長輩也好對我們想要把這樣的去學習或者想要把這個文化自己傳統的去推廣的時候就會被拿來這些資料拿來做詐騙這個主委你有知道這件事情嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6487.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6490.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
我們在國土詐騙的廣告宣傳之中,我們會反詐騙。我們在國土宣傳之中,要跟大家說,我們要提供委員會提到,我們會為委員會做一個專門反詐騙的宣傳,比如說有可能我們要罵鬆, |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6514.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6515.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
內政委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6541.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6561.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
好,謝謝主委,因為我們是客家人,我們都分辨不出來了專業的分辨,其他人就更分辨不出來所以說我們希望就是我們的主委這邊看有什麼怎麼樣去讓大家知道怎麼去分辨這個是真的是我們的委員會來去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6563.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6579.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
招財或者是廣告的招募人才但是要讓人家知道說這個是詐騙的這個部分我覺得是我們要要爭嚴議要怎麼樣嚴格的去讓更多人知道才不會被騷騙感謝委員的提倡感謝好 謝謝好 謝謝麥玉珍委員接下來請黃建斌委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6596.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6600.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
跟委員會報告 張宏祿委員詢答完後 休息5分鐘好 謝謝主席 我們有請顏銘慧主委好 請曾主委委員好 主委好 接拍接拍好 接拍主委 上週主委應該是從帛琉回來 去參加國慶是上週 上上週 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6626.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6627.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6640.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6642.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6667.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6694.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
主委因為忍在國外參加活動：沒有辦法回來協助本席了解相信也很期待部會能夠到現場來協助本席在這個禮拜五會邀請相關的部會去災區來勘災我想這個攸關特別是在我們原住民地區的災或復原的工作這個部分主委請您務必來參加可以嗎?可以謝謝主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6695.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6716.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
OK 接下來我們要請教主委就是最近也吵得沸沸揚揚每次本席回到選區很多主委都問我就是進發補助這一塊我相信主委應該也聽到很多這樣的聲音那陳英委員跟主任長在施政總事選的時候討論到這個進發補償問題院長也公開說行政院會負責的依照過去的承諾編列支補貼4萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6722.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6727.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
所以原民會會必須去再做內部的調解嗎?這個意思就是說不足的部分你原民會要自己想辦法嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6728.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6755.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
那你作為原住民的大家長我想主委應該要想好出國前就想好這個方法才對不過後來目前得知是要從原住民綜合發展基金來挪用那過去很多立委都提到原住民綜合發展基金長期來短促的問題那如果再持續的撥補進法補償的話恐怕沒有多久基金就用完所以進法補償是經過三讀的法定預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6756.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6782.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
他是要補償主人的土地不能使用所以給的經費那原住民綜合發展基金是為了要促進我們原住民經濟發展要協助主人在發展經濟這一塊這兩個是不同的東西是不能拿來作為補償的用途所以這邊本席強烈建議主委應該是持續向中央來繼續爭取那另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6783.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6785.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
對你們而言,什麼叫做臺語? |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6800.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6801.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
各位主委,你覺得什麼是台語? |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6822.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6843.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
在歷史上歷史風的演變還有牙齒目前失言提到說 台語、台語跟厚羅發、閩南語那是窮一種指向、窮一種語言謝謝兩位主委的回答其實這問題很簡單也不用太緊張也不用太政治化去看它本是認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6845.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6866.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
臺語就是臺灣的語言像原住民語有那麼多種有百萬、有PUMA、有AMIS有那麼多的語言客家話也有很多我認為它都是屬於臺灣的語言台灣是一個多元的社會臺灣是一個多元共融的社會我想不管是臺語、閩南語、客家語、原住民語都可以叫做臺語兩位主委是不是很懂這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6869.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6879.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
好路法、學法、原住民法全部在臺灣的國家語言、無問題的國家語言發展、國家語言法﹐其實就在香港的TV帝國。所以那個,有位主席有什麼回答我嚇一跳,我嚇到對不對。 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6888.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6915.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
因為其實本席在擔任鄉長的時候其實曾經看到現場親歷過這個畫面是有鄉親跟原住民說阿你要講台語嗎?然後那個原住民非常生氣地說什麼叫做台語?台灣語言叫做台語?我講的話也叫做台語才對所以我才會這樣問各位啦所以我想臺灣現在已經經過這麼多年族群融合的時候我想不只是我們講的民、男、婦叫做台語應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6917.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6942.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
所有這塊土地上的語言都能夠叫做臺語．所以也要請兩位主委．有時候真的要去爭取一下．要慎重考慮使用．不然是有可能會造成族群的對立的那臺灣經過臺灣這48個年來．經過長期的這個．族群上的．互相的競爭也好鬥爭也好．好不容易走到這一塊．不需要為語言來增加第二次的對立． |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6943.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6971.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
那謝謝兩位主委那我想在這邊再請這個客會主委主委那個客會要落實在總統的這個客家六支箭有公共、國際、飲食、青年創生這是非常宏大的國家希望工程本席也看到客會做很多推廣客語的活動像你們的podcast然後還有在不同平台像IG、臉書甚至在兒童舞台舞台劇都做很多努力還有客家大戲我這個台東鄉親非常喜歡 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6973.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6992.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
本席在6月13日 客會書面質詢時提到30歲以下 客語能力認證的通過率會達到6成主要原因是為什麼 客會的說明是說因為12到30歲 民眾在聽、說、讀、寫的能力約3成以下可能是因為12到30歲的人已處於語言學習階段總體來說 30歲以下民眾聽、說的能力較為不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7002.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7003.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7024.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7025.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
主委,其實本市覺得還有一個原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7052.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7055.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7078.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7100.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
目前能夠流利使用客語的人口大概集中在50歲以上的族群大概是93%那現在7、8是青年那很少很少我想真的能夠有這樣的客語背景真的不多那推廣的老師非常非常的重要所以在這邊是不是請主委跟相關的單位來從根本來解決失智的問題然後來推廣我們客家語 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7102.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7119.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
委員說的沒錯,我們認同提供合法真實的語言,形成實、形成就夠,我們就努力去增加它的量,用方法看法方法,我們就想方法謝謝主委,主委,那本期最後再跟兩位主委再次說明,臺灣是一個台灣的正社會 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7122.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7141.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
本席是閩南人．我的太太是阿美族．我的大嫂是客家人．所以在這個大家庭裡面．每個人講的話．這塊土地上的語言．都是屬於臺灣的語言．那謝謝兩位主委．那也謝謝主席感謝 感謝委員好 謝謝黃建斌委員好 接下來請張宏祿召委請兩位主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7153.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7179.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
請谷主委、曾主委主委我想請問一下我們現在是不是有一個推動客庄小招牌甚至無招牌運動那它是不是在新竹關西做示範 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7180.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7185.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
沒錯,因為董事正中有支持：所以就開始推動那你覺得效果如何目前來講,效果還不太好：因為要全面性：很困難因為要跟店家交通：所以要花很多時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7201.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7215.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
我個人是認為啦要推動保存一個文化保存一個語言或什麼的用一個小招牌或無招牌我真的覺得有很大的效果嗎主委你認為呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7218.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7223.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
他要跟語言沒有很相關：但以整個總體的景觀、體力、環境：整個本人的心態、感覺：所以其實景觀也是我們所存有的一部分：至於語言,我們有另外的方式來判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7239.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7258.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
招牌什麼的我覺得那個是地方的特色而已那個應該是縣市政府去做的工作然後縣市首長他要怎麼發展他要什麼那是他的工作啊對不對我覺得這倒不是一個很重要的一個我們要去 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7258.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7265.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
用、花這一筆錢然後去做這個吧?你認為?我們真的要去檢討,檢討可能是要運用的,要進行就是說,客家的其實語言文化還有要整個總統的就委員說的,縣市政府、鄉鎮公所念義的祖母,我們可以去檢討,去討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7281.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7303.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
好 你可以再思考一下那為什麼請兩位主委一起上其實我覺得我們不管客委會或雲民會我們這幾年來不管是電視台、電台或什麼的都辦了很多活動做了很多那有剛剛很多委員也在講什麼語言或什麼的 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7306.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7323.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
臺灣有很多的地方其實客家人跟原住民他們是生活在同一個地區的同一個區塊的對不對 有沒有 有沒有 有啦齁比如說你們認為哪裡有 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7325.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7325.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
我不是要考試我是要那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7342.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7359.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
你剛剛說的東勢、董事、然後跟谷關那邊就是客家人跟原住民都蠻多的地方那你們有沒有想過你們有客家電視台、有原住民電視台有什麼的 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7360.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7384.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
這個是活生生的這是現存的那我們要保留文化要脫離廣語言你們有沒有想過合作就以東勢谷關這邊我們去弄一個小影集或弄一個小劇場用一個集集的這一種然後去一個故事然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7387.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7390.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
讓大家來瞭解：你們有沒有：你覺得這樣子可不可以：那是一個貴厚的教訓：因為：無論是土著名的總部、男部：都有：年初年跟婚姻：穿著那個衣服：因人的互動關係：互為主體的那種：我認為貴厚的一個建議：目前合理費也有做：它的歷史： |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7413.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7421.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
書寫：書寫因為語言講的和節目：我覺得節目的風向：其實我認為是一個很好的提議這個是很活生生的只要編劇編得好或什麼的我覺得這個會引起共鳴然後呢：也會帶動地方的觀光總比你去做個招牌好吧我個人是這樣認為啦那個原民會主委你認為呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7439.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7459.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
是 因為我們也會有一點合作就是跟原客這邊有合作那希望未來的合作就剛剛那個委員講的其實譬如像屏東現在內埔鄉啊 屏東市都是也有原住民也有客家也有這個講台語都有都在一起很自然 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7460.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7486.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
我當然知道很自然我剛說的你們去合作你們有那麼多的資源對不對你也可以我說的你也可以有好幾個這個連續的你比如說我剛講的東勢谷關這是一個然後你新竹都市的郊區三層的都市化的其實有很多題材有很多可以去做啦我的意思是這樣我說你認不認同認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7488.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7490.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
謝謝張宏祿委員 我們現在休息5分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7528.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7531.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7561.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7570.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7588.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7609.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7614.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7621.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7657.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7661.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7681.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7701.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
8255.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
8258.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
我們繼續開會接下來請徐宇貞委員謝謝主席我們是不是請客委會股主委還有原民會曾主委以及我們文化部的李次長以及教育部的梁司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
8279.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8283.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
好,請谷主委、曾主委、李次長還有梁次長、梁司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8290.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8311.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
主委、我們的次長、市長大家好今天我想主要我們召委安排專報主要是針對這次臺灣台語所引起的爭議所以造成了很多不同的族群大家對於這個語言的問題有各種不同的看法那因為對於國家語言的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8312.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8338.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
法制定主要就是為了推廣多元的語言希望能夠讓我們的母語能夠完整的保留而且希望能夠多多的推廣那語言的發展非常的重要所以說很多的這個文化的傳承我想谷主委也常常都提到說很希望說客家的語言能夠好的發展也是未來明年的這個不然今年明年的重點但是呢今天建議的地方就是文化部跟教育部把臺灣閩南語更名為臺灣台語 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8340.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8363.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
但是因為臺灣台語又很容易讓大家認為臺語到底代表的是真正的臺語還是臺灣的語言所以造成客家族群有蠻大的反彈所以我想請教一下文化部的李次長這一次針對這樣子推動的政策引起蠻大的爭議請問你有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8364.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8386.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
跟委員報告這個語言名稱的問題在我們111年的語發報告裡面就有正式的提出那這個語發報告要經過行政院的核定其實也經過非常多次的各部會之間還有各員團體之間的一個溝通跟協商所以名稱最後定為臺灣台語 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8387.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8411.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
把台語當作是一個專有名詞 台語做一個專有名詞：就是原來的閩南語：它並不是叫做臺灣：對：它不等於是臺灣的語言的簡稱：對：但是呢現在為什麼客家的族群：不要把它作為簡稱：會反彈這麼大：他就覺得這樣子其實：會讓人家覺得臺語可能就是臺灣的語言：那不然就是臺灣的語言最重要的一個部分：對,我們溝通的不夠：所以說造成 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8412.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8439.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
我們再來努力溝通所以包括說教育部的梁司長您現在幫因為我有聽到就是說你們是建議優先使用就臺灣台語或臺灣原住民語、臺灣客家語這個部分是優先使用可是我看你們的網站都已經改成臺灣台語我們在查詢的時候都已經改成這樣跟委員報告那其實教育部主要是因為根據行政院在剛才所講的111年的8月20號的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8442.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8469.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
語法的決議還有大概在文化部就是我們語言的一個專責機關他們在今年的6月20號給教育部就是希望優先使用 他們寫的是優先使用嗎?是 並不是說一定要嗎?那為什麼你們的這個查詢的網站我看全部都已經更改成臺灣台語因為他建議是在書寫上面書面的書寫上面要用優先來使用這一些不是只有臺灣台語包括臺灣客語等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8470.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8485.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
所以教育部就是根據整個行政院的政策跟國家語言的一個我已經不太理解就是說為什麼要加上臺灣這兩個字因為我們都在臺灣那不管是臺語、原住民語、客家語 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8486.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8502.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
本來都是我們現在使用的語言那加上臺語就不會這個嗎因為我覺得看到因為我們很多都特別提到要推廣語言就是針對一些比較有傳承危機的母語希望能夠來推動那加了臺灣這兩個字就不會有傳承危機了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8508.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8522.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
是教育部還是文化部?是文化部就是因為剛剛講呆役他作為一個專有名詞之後我們擔心有的族群朋友會覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8524.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8552.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
好像被排除在臺灣之外所以我們就會提出在名稱上面大家都是臺灣的語言目前看起來好像加了臺灣這兩個字之後反而引起更大的反彈剛剛有特別提到就是可能針對客家族群現在的反彈是最大那請問一下谷主委針對這個部分您會怎麼來去您是不是覺得這樣子是不是適當然後會不會覺得這樣反而會讓客家族群會覺得說我們自己的語言沒有受到尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8552.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8558.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
我希望我們能夠了解客家作為一個所屬的族群是要本應黨的道、共的道、尊崇所以客家族群 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8568.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8569.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
社會社會社會社會社會社會社會社會 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8593.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8594.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
我們目前還是在合併會在城府公安也在閩南語合併 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8610.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8614.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
臺灣的合法行為．以這個部分還是希望．建議用語．是不是主委．針對這些客家的族群．能夠好好的跟他們溝通．因為目前看起來．加了臺灣這兩個字．既然引起這麼大的爭議的話．那臺灣臺語、臺灣原住民．臺灣客語、臺灣這樣． |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8637.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8640.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
我們就在臺灣為什麼還要這樣子來去做這樣子我覺得有一個很大的問題應該要讀書出窮應該要去唐人的書書出窮的上院啦也要有準聰莫不錯 我也認同好 謝謝主委那曾主委你的看法呢 針對這個原住民的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8655.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8671.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
原住民如果這樣講的話應該是最早來到臺灣應該是臺灣最早的語言那曾主委的看法呢我們因為這個是很自然的我們都是給尊重各族群因為原住民我們也是臺灣原住民就是多尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8672.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8701.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
對 我是覺得就是加這個臺灣之後會造成這麼大的一個爭議跟困擾是不是應該我覺得教育部這邊也要再這個審視一下那另外就是我請原民會曾主委就是針對我們的這個禁法補償的經費因為就原民會沒有辦法補足這個足額的預算所導致的那請問一下原民會在編列這些預算的時候有沒有積極那個谷主委還有其他幾位可以請你們先回座 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8702.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8729 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
在編列這些預算的時候有沒有極力的向行政院爭取跟委員報告我們今年編28.16億已經是歷年來編最多的一次那麼一直以來淨華補償的這個經費本席請教的是你有沒有積極的向行政院爭取應該是要這個淨華補償的條例有有那如果你有積極爭取的話請問是誰不同意這個原民會除了編取這一個相關的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8732.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8759.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
因為我們就是說希望爭取就是主席總書這邊也來幫忙那如果是這個可以試狀況我們的歷年來我們的預算跟基金本來就是對等的來支應這一筆可是你現在基金目前大概只剩不到10億已經短出了67億所以你的基金其實基本上也是不夠的金額如果因為總的基金來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8760.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8768.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
還夠啦 還夠支應這個 如果是市政課金來的話支出夠 問題是基金請問的用途一般我們基金的用途是用在社會福利啊、經濟發展根本就沒有進法補償的這個科目啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8772.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8801.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
那要怎麼使用我們的收支保管還有這個運用的辦法確實有是可以來用來是哪一條是哪一條對第6應該是第5條可以用在進法補償的條例對而且歷年來已經大概有7、8年都是這樣那是不是會後請這個主委把相關的這個內容給我因為其實請曾主委要多站在我們原民的立場多想一想如果這個現在就不同意您編列這筆預算的是有誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8802.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8831.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
你也可以大聲說出來我們國民黨團一定做你的後盾謝謝那這部分可能麻煩一下因為現在這個禁防綁條例已經三讀通過本來就應該要編列預算那這也是這次為什麼我們會退回程序委員會不是刪除而是退回主要就是因為這本來就是應該要編列在預算裡面的支出那為什麼不編列進去如果你有很大的壓力你說這個行政院有誰不同意那我想國民黨團會做你的後盾謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8838.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8840.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
理事長,看這幾文件的重要性 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8868.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8888.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
來 主委 主委 也感謝你久接以來本席有跟你說到自己是對客家的經費的需要﹐也看到你們每天有的倒灑工 有的斷網﹐感謝 但在這個過程當中 我認為還不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8895.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8896.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
主席,您是否覺得還需要在嘉義市的客戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8903.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8913.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
活動?有需要再補充什麼嗎?來 主委來感謝委員 松枝委員有質詢：我的部分：也有跟我的同事說請我們多多替港藝師來攀客家的法庭：也要我們因為英國的照顧：就要照顧我們全台灣客家的部分：在港藝師部分：我們要努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8931.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8938.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
主委 謝謝因為我覺得大家互相尊重今天我們要講的就是我有我的語言你有你的語言因為我從小的環境都是差不多講台語這個台語當中聽到出來說一直對待一個地方是南部的孩子還是北部的孩子 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8960.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8981.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
會代表而已,沒有什麼排義所以說,我們會覺得說在這裡面今天有討論說我們要如何如何語言做得好所以在文化之平的時候我認為有一些雖然尊重不尊重但你要所有的族群的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8987.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
9008.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
大家都會活化開我相信今天不是跟客家委員會：我們的原住民：也需要去保存他們的語言所以在這裏面我們的文化這邊說實在你每一個族群每一個語言來消失的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
9011.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
9015.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
有錢要補充的：所以說在剛才姐姐的委員跟你們提問的時候你們未來要怎麼去可以做好來加正式 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
9026.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
9035.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
謝謝委員的提問我現在想要做委員的時間先向委員報告一件事因為文化部所主管的是國家語言發展法這個方案在這個方案之下我們現在要保存面臨事端危機的這個是最重要的面臨的危機對因為有客議、原住民議還有臺議因為客議跟原住民議都有主管的機關在提倡、在保存 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
9055.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
9063.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
臺語、馬祖語、臺灣邱語這三項國家語言．同樣面臨集團的危機．亦沒有專門的單位來提供這個時針．所以文化部在行促時．我們要主管法定意外．我們要同時推測．包括馬祖語、臺語、臺灣邱語 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
9076.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
9087.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
所以在推測的時候當然文化部這幾年在行政院的幾次之下有編五年、三百億、總統四個部會到底來推測這個部署的意見文化部在做的時候我們客家鄉親就一直誤會說你們文化部怎麼可以單獨做台語而已我要跟大家報告文化部不是單獨做台語而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
9097.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
9099.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
9119.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9132.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
若要擁有臺語：擁有我們的母語：都要有一個較好的環境：不是只有在教室內而已：所以要對家庭：要讓他回家看電視：或是聽到公報：或是他在APP內：有更多更多的母語：所產生的這些：文化藝術的活動：這是文化部所來：會跟我們客委會：原住民委員會：及其他的管理政府到底來拍拚： |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9146.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9153.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
我是覺得要做更生動的像我們的讀書館裡面你如果去設一個可以跟任何的族群的語言的時候我覺得很好了讀書館包括小孩也好包括小孩也好都可以去那個地方所以未來的時候我覺得你們也要加強尤其我們的主委本身要自己探討的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9176.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9199.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
我們不管在語言的裡面是要有適用到、有外泊的地方有時候你跟我說像我們自己兩萬多個的客位但是實在說的沒有幾個你是要如何去鼓勵他們說我們的語言不是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9204.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9205.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
這是一個代表：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：：� |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9225.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9231.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
不是真的要追蹤一年、兩年、再再來我相信不是這樣是要有好客出來剛才我們的委員也說了為什麼現在人們要去學日記為什麼要去學韓語就是有一個覺得可以帶動他本身生活 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9249.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9253.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
有可能會錯誤,所以在這個風雲中,我們正式跟主委要改進,因為每一個族群、每一個議員,我們都要 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9262.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9267.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
不準,像台語、台語．我們當局以來就覺得說．台語的說就順順啊．台語、台語．不然你如果說閩南語．那台語怎麼說?正是．來,這句要怎麼說,來?蠻然義．蠻然義啦．這樣是不是也還不順嘛．是當局以來大家都說． |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9288.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9299.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
這位媒體很感興趣的都說台語的質詢,如果台語不準確他絕對不會說,這位媒體很感興趣的都會說,閩南語,他不會說這樣吧所以這個議案,你我互相,要大家加油,不準確,以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9315.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9319.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
好,謝謝王美惠委員接下來請黃婕委員好,謝謝主席,我們請文化部次長好,請李次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9344.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9363.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
好 次長好可不可以先請教一下因為我們今天討論這個其實是我們國家語言發展法以來就是針對台灣的很多重要的母語都都是平等尊重那我們發展的精神是什麼因為我其實有看到說我們在國家語言發展法裡面的書面用語 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9365.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9393.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
有一些文字那我們目前有列出哪一些書面用語呢在語法報告裡面的書面用語是針對有濱林傳承危機的所以總共有6個種類然後大概有12種那其中像譬如說客語它就是可以臺灣客語或客語那原住民語或者臺灣原住民語言大概都會有這樣子的一些並列那在臺語的部分就比較特殊它就是臺灣台語 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9394.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9397.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
臺語跟臺灣閩南語我們在書面建議用語上這個名稱有3個種類然後這種6類12種語言其實就供各個行政機關在書面用語的時候是情境來使用那當然我們有推薦優先使用第一類組就是包括了臺灣原住民語言 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9416.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9438.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
原住民族語言還有臺灣平埔族語言、臺灣客語、臺灣台語跟臺灣手語還有馬族語這幾個。這是最推薦的第一類族的實用語言。是。好。謝謝次長的說明。其實我要講的就是因為其實今天我們的議程的內容有問到說這個臺灣台語是不是有侵犯到其他臺灣語言的地位。 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9438.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9461.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
那我想應該答案很明確啦在我們國家語言發展法裡面就是要尊重所有我們臺灣使用的母語大家都是族群平等然後尊重所有多元包容那我也希望說因為這些都是我們臺灣人自己的語言那文化部要扛起這個責任讓所有的語言都可以好好的被保留傳承並且繼續發展好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9464.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9483.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
那如果真的有特殊有特別有哪一個語言團體或是使用哪一個族群的語言的使用者覺得說我們文化部做的不夠或者是覺得被排擠或是感受上覺得不被尊重那確實這個就是我們文化部應該要繼續努力的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9484.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9510.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
好 謝謝委員的指導我們會繼續努力好 謝謝那再來我請教一下這個臺語家庭的部分因為 不好意思還是次長對 先不要回座因為在文化部2022年有公告我們國家語言發展整體方案那這個方案接下來會延續到115年那我有看到你們的專案報告那我真的覺得算是蠻肯定的包括說現在你們還有做一些臺語配音的動漫 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9511.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9537.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
像是派對卡口名稱還有這個spy family都是我很喜歡的動畫那你們嘗試著用臺語配音我覺得這個都是很好的嘗試讓他跟大家平常接觸的文化去做交流讓一般民眾可以更多的接觸這是跨世代非常好的溝通那我想知道的是因為其實你們的目標是要在2026年選拔跟獎勵出4萬戶的臺語家庭那我想知道的是你們離這個目標還有多遠 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9541.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9554.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
謝謝委員的提問然後也跟委員報告臺語家庭這個計畫我們從去年擬定這個方案之後其實一直在推動當中那麼我們目前有規劃出會分成兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9556.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9583.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
階段來做第一種我們稱之為臺語學習家庭也就是他目前他不需要有任何臺語的能力可是他有心想要來報名參加我們臺語學習家庭的這樣子的一個策略的話我們就會先幫他登錄了以後會給贈送他一個臺語學習包讓他能夠在家裡有兩代以上看他們依照他們的年紀需求來選擇他們需要的一些讀本或者是繪本 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9584.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9608.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
如果說有一些家庭他已經有相當的臺語能力了那他也我們是希望鼓勵這些家庭尤其應該都是50歲以上他可能可以使用臺語的希望鼓勵這樣他要往下一代傳承下去能夠帶領他的年輕的這一代那這一類的我們會把它稱之為所謂的文化家庭那這個文化家庭我們除了一樣也會給他一些獎勵這種臺語的 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9610.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9626.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
他可能要更進一步學習的需要的繪本之外我們也希望鼓勵這些文化家庭具有臺語溝通能力的家庭他們能夠站出來更協助部門協助行政部門來推動臺語那這個計畫整個計畫我們在10月底的時候會公告然後會開始讓大家來做這個登錄那預計在逐年的就是到115年2026年的時候能夠達到我們的KPI就是4萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9639.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9639.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
臺語實驗學校 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9663.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9692.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
就在明年要掛牌了那我不知道說次長知道這個消息嗎我們高雄首先做了但是呢我希望的是因為其實中央也有相對應的政策那是不是接下來這個臺語實驗學校的這樣的計畫跟美意可以在各個縣市來遍地開花呢那當然我們高雄實驗所做當然有我們的用意因為其實高雄是臺灣算是百萬人口以上使用臺語最多的一個城市 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9692.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9712.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
所以我們也很希望說高雄可以扛起這個把台語的傳承做好這樣的角色那這是我們高雄的目標但是我希望文化部也應該要就是像我們高雄這麼的積極所以我不知道說我們現在有沒有一些政策是可以對應這個實驗學校另外我也要說因為剛好谷竹也在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9713.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9717.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9739.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9756.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
的確我是從公視台語台的新聞裡面得知這個訊息說我們高雄市即將要推出台語實驗小學那我記得當初這個新聞下面就非常多的我們關心台語傳承的朋友們就留言說多希望不要只有高雄有 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9756.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9782.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
應該要怎麼樣全國性的來推動那這件事情我們會持續再跟教育部這邊來討論怎麼樣在我們體制之內然後盡量的可以用一種所謂全臺語的授課其實真的臺語要走出除了生活以外要能夠跟知識能夠連結在一起的時候這個語言才能夠存活下來這部分文化部會持續的跟客委會還有原民會然後還有跟我們其他教育部一起來努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9783.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9794.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
我希望審預算的時候也可以我還會繼續問然後我會希望你們有更具體的一個方向說我們用了哪些預算來支持地方做這件事好 謝謝次長謝謝委員 謝謝謝謝黃婕委員那我們接下來請徐巧興委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9813.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9816.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
謝謝主席,那我們請谷主委。請谷主委。你好,所以非常關心這個客家委員會的預算,那也希望能夠替我們的客家族群爭取更多的預算,包含是在文化上面以及語言上面。 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9839.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9840.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9856.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9870.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
所以聽跟說都只會一點點而已那我覺得這是非常遺憾跟可惜的這也代表我們長期對於客家化在臺北市來說是給我們的學生、給我們的孩子是絕對不夠的 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9871.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9899.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
我們可以來看一下對於客委會補助各縣市的這個數據來說呢臺北市的補助金額跟平均補助的金額是全國最低的那當然我們在這個大型的有客家族群的縣市是最高這個我們是無庸置疑也絕對支持但是呢我們可以看到臺北市我們客家人口數也非常的多但我們的補助總金額呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9899.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9920.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
平均下來每一個客家人只平均補助到7塊錢而已臺北市有非常多很優秀的這個客家的文化包含是我們的藝名記等等的但我們的補助是全國最低那所以呢包含是語言包含是文化我覺得這是非常可惜的一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9921.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9940.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
所以近5年全國補助總額56億多．客家人口數460萬人左右．平均每個客家人受惠1212元．但是對比最多的苗栗縣13億．當然客家人口數多．可是我們平均分配到7塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9941.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9956.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
那相比其他的縣市．還真的是比較少了一些．想要先請教一下．那未來在臺北市的補助部份．有沒有提高的機會跟可能性?感謝齊委員若是法官．我又失敗了．在日本的臺北市．在部署的範圍之內．尊重對臺北市．沒有部署的．在臺北市的策略一定好 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9971.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9999.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
雖然說臺北市做不到輔助：但是我們也提供其他方法來輔助本臺北市：比方說像在學校：行議、行議的教學：教育Q：臺北市政府教育Q：有跟我們審查：我們有輔助：所以也要跟地方合作：地方政府合作：地方恩怨意提出來：地方恩怨意提出來：我們就會支持：包括我們也跟臺北市政府說：也還有行議家庭： |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
10001.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
10002.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
10026.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
10030.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
因為這是一個全臺北市的客家民眾能夠共同參與的一個活動那當然我知道全臺灣的疫名祭活動今年度的經費都有減少的狀況並不是只有臺北市發生可是我們希望的是全臺灣的疫名祭的 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
10045.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
10059.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
經費都能夠提高不只是臺北市的提高大家都一起提高包含臺北市也提高後來在我們的不斷徐宇珍委員的爭取之下臺北市的金額有稍微提高了可是呢我想要問的是為什麼各縣市的藝名祭的活動的經費要逐年減少這也相對應到我們剛剛講的客家語言的臺灣台語為什麼客家族群會這麼的反彈很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
10072.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
10094.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
一方面也是因為很多客家的經費：大家感覺到了：最近的這個藝名季的活動：客家經費的預算：好像開始慢慢地遞減：又再加上文化部的這個臺灣語：臺灣台語的訂定：當然會讓客家族群感到非常的恐慌：感到心生不滿想請問谷主委：在藝名季的活動編列上面： |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
10094.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
10105.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
不只是為我們臺北市爭取臺北市當然要爭取但是臺北市跟其他縣市的移民祭的活動是否未來能夠在補助的金額上面向上提升跟委員報告移民祭的法庭新竹菸200萬那最高的所以一般來說對其他所有的菸絲的法庭的補償目前也要移民祭200萬以前都能夠到400萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
10125.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
10127.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
10148.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10170.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
新竹也能夠提高、臺北也能夠提高那都提高的狀況下面﹐客家族群他們就不會感到相對剝奪感對於包含是所謂要不要定定臺灣、臺語這樣子的事情﹐就不會有敏感、就不會有衝突﹐他們就會覺得被尊重我相信新竹的客家族群、苗栗的客家族群﹐都會有同樣的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10170.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10193.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
所以拜託我們客委會在相關的預算跟經費上面不只是針對特定的縣市當所有縣市包含是這麼重要的疫名季我們的預算跟經費都能夠往上提的時候我知道您剛剛說因為新竹最高200萬所以其他縣市不會再比它更高了這我可以理解但當新竹如果能夠是500萬的時候那其他縣市就可以是300萬啊那所以說我們希望的是共同針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10200.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10210.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
苗栗新竹台北所有的客家的預算我們要提高那對於苗栗客家的鄉親不只是苗栗因為我自己苗栗人才這樣講客家的鄉親來說當在講這些臺灣台語什麼臺灣客語等等這些詞彙的時候才不會引發各族群的衝突跟緊張這也是一種解決的辦法所以希望我們的谷主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10229.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10242.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
身為客委會的主委：一定要跟中央全力去爭取我們客家族群的預算：不只是議名季：還包括其他的客家預算拜託主委沈某感謝美燕明年醫生有選中：雖然有選中：但是醫生是固定的暗杜團體,每個團體都說我們不出特色但是醫生有憾所以還是要看醫生審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10258.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10283.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
總預算是有限的但是你們一定要向他爭取更多否則怎麼會以前大家可以申請到400萬現在最高上限是200萬呢我們主席一定對這個事情是最清楚的是不是這幾年的疫名季所有縣市的經費都是減少的情況以前可以有這麼多現在沒有辦法有這麼多那就是經費縮減了我們只是希望能夠回到原本的情況而已嘛謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10288.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10302.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
主委,徐委員說的,你是代表客家族群的主委,客家委員跟那麼多委員都不斷地在聽點,你應該要代表來爭取客家預算多一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10306.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10307.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
有行政院會議的時候你就要表達 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10326.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10328.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
謝謝主席 客家委員會主委有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10355.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10355.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
好,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10385.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10406.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
主委早安感謝你委員安總好這今天有討論到這個所謂的臺灣台語的專案報告那當然嘛就是這個客家族群多少有感受到一些相對剝奪感客家人也是臺灣人嘛對不對那為什麼合絡語對不對被認為是就可以叫做臺灣台語那這個客家語它難道不是臺灣台語嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10408.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10415.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
臺灣台語的名稱對日本時代都一樣 都可以這樣說我們可以尊重說好話的人說話的人自己也要發聲但是像我和那些客家人所說的所屬人要本人聽到我們的聲音跟本人看得到 也要尊重我們的意見所以站在我們的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10435.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10437.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
來講,有的台語我們在講喉嚨話：所以我們非常強硬地去尊重有的在評定,台灣的國家語言在評定 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10447.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10464.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
我只是提醒這個我們主委就是畢竟你是客家等於是代表就是客家等於是最高的機關首長那這代表既然有些客家鄉親尤其在基層他的感受是受傷的必要的時候你要表達一下你的立場當然你可以講你也你知道複雜嘛在這整個這個行政體系裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10466.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10488.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
動輒得救但是既然客家基層相繼有一些想法這我希望各位主委要守住自己的本位要勇於表達這是第一個那當然我們今天如果只談論名稱我覺得太可惜了因為比起名稱更重要的應該是環境我舉一個例子比如說新加坡這個主委知道新加坡的國定國家語言是哪一種語言嗎英文 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10489.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10505.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
其實不是 是馬來語喔是馬來語喔那它的官方語言你剛剛有講到就是英語、華語、馬來語、印度、塔米爾語這四種都是它所謂的官方語言但它國家 國定國家語言是馬來語然後它的官方文書實際上使用就是英文所以說 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10505.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10532.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
不管你的國家什麼國家語言啊或者是官方語言怎麼來做定位最後大家實際使用的習慣還是不一樣的結果所以流通的頻率是比較重要的新加坡也遇到跟我們一樣的問題啊大家都講華語講英語他們的華語英語使用比例高可是相對來講他們馬來語使用比例就降低所以說這個才是我們應該要認真面對的目標好那根據這個國家語言整體發展方案這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10533.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10549.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
主委知道我們這個叫做三代流失率啊,客家語的三代流失率的數字大概是多少嗎?呃,抱歉,現在我,三、三代我不在,但是我在我們明年流失的比例差不多1.7左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10553.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10565.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
每年流失嘛 他的三代流失意思是說本來可以交給爸爸媽媽跟兒子女兒然後再跟孫子輩這樣去交流 那個流失比例按照國家語言整理發展方案資料其實高達72.15% 72.15% 這個數字其實是蠻驚人的 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10571.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10593.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
那很多時候啊大家討論語言的時候除了討論流通性之外它也有文化資產的價值但那個通常都是到了很後面比如說我們今天也許談論部分比如原住民族的族語它已經幾乎要沒有了但它是很重要的文化資產所以今天文化部也來對不對那客語的角色就臺語大概三代流失比例大概是五成七啦客語到七成二原住民各族的族語已經到高達九成那 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10595.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10611.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
當流失的比例很高那大家就會轉用文化資產保存的心態來做政策的規劃那我現在請問主委我們現在客家語的部分面對一個流失比例很高的一個情況之下我們現在是要扭轉它流通的困境還是要乾脆就用文化資產保存的心態來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10612.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10635.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
當然 紐約議員所說的英國的前面的答案 應該要在那裡流通 增加 不能在那裡作為一個市的部署 除了部署還要流通當然還是要拼流通對不對 沒錯沒錯那現在拼流通的部分的時候 有沒有具體的政策目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10636.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10651.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
你可以講剛剛主委顯然有一套主委自己的數字就是說每一年流失1.7%對不對那明年的目標是多少後年到後年是多少有沒有辦法把它從流失變成不再流失然後甚至變成使用人數增加客委會有沒有規劃一個相關這樣的政策的數據跟KPI |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10654.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10654.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
文化部主任委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10669.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10680.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
多管齊下的所有方法都要做包括媒體、宣傳、教育、法律等等﹐要加捏、擬言、擁捏。本土教堂提醒要擬言的提為本土教堂認為有合法、說合法、有用、有好、提供意識 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10699.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10711.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
提高意識讓大家覺得講客語是一個很OK的事情不會覺得很奇怪然後也鼓勵各個家庭嘛像家庭這一部分其實主委就做得不錯嘛就我的了解你有兩位這個寶貝兒子對不對你在家裡是不是都用客語跟他們溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10712.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10730.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
對嘛 對不對那他們講客語應該講得也不錯但我就要問主委啦除了他們跟媽媽聊天講話的時候用客語交談之外你有沒有問過他們就是說當出去外面的時候還有沒有什麼機會可以用客家語言跟其他的人他同學也好或者是他身邊的人交流有沒有一些這樣你沒有討論過這樣的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10732.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10743.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
有確實會受到影響：但一旦有很多行為：例如我剛才說的合法：即是說以創合在客家的法律時期：一人就有幾費使用：故所謂合費：是攀陷人家的角色：角色跟人家的環境衝突出來：人家是人家最主要的：人家要做：人家太的環境要做： |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10756.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10782.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
這個我非常同意就是說打造一個適宜客語的環境這是很重要的但是我希望今天的質詢可以問出一個具體的目標嘛比如說你當然很多計畫比如說剛剛主委也有提到比如說客語能力認證啊資料庫對不對媒體啊辦辦活動什麼這都很好我們也都會支持但問題是這些活動辦下去之後這些政策落實下去之後怎麼樣把那個1.7%要變成多少主委心裡有沒有一個目標嘛定一個目標嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10782.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10803.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
我們的目標是先點下去,先點下去,不再落下去,也要提一個目標,目標就是做到擁有法律、輕鬆、提高大概要多少的時間,現在是每一年1.7就是-1.7嘛,越來越少對不對,什麼時候可以回到0,不再流失,有沒有一個時間,比如說你抓一個3年或5年完成這個目標,有嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10813.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10829.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
我們希望這個每一年大家都要檢討我覺得每一年要有細的目標啦你有一個五年十年的大目標但每一年細的目標我們希望在預算審查之後可以清楚的交代讓我們可以追蹤 可以嗎好 感謝紐委員的建議還有各位基體的建議感謝好 謝謝主委 謝謝感謝好 謝謝紐委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10843.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10860.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
好,接下來我們請徐新穎委員諮詢。好,謝謝主席。本席請客委會谷主委還有文化部李次長。谷主委李次長有請。 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10866.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10890.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
你好你好剛剛我們牛委員已經問了我也是要問就是說我們客語是不是臺語嗎那我已經聽到谷主委的答案了你說要互相尊重對啊那既然互相尊重為什麼臺語就是閩南語就是Holo Voi |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10891.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10897.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
臺語、臺灣語言、臺語也是包含的各種語言所以這一個同樣問題請理事長檢答謝謝委員的提問再次跟委員說明臺語現在目前是被定位為一個專有名詞就是臺語好 謝謝 請暫停 請暫停 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10917.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10929.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
所以為什麼特別定義臺語是屬於閩南語或是所謂的holloway那你竟然在我們的國家語言發展報告特別提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10937.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10957.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
是你們制定的國家語言發展報告提醒由於多數國家語言已經面臨傳承的危機所以若再加上語言名稱的爭議恐造成這些語言互相執軸更加速彼此消亡的速度 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10957.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10980.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
所以既然是為了母語的傳承政府施政就不應該引起恐慌更改名稱的急迫性並不是優先選項然後還造成族群之間的衝擊本席要在這邊強烈的代表我們客家鄉親、客家族群表達強烈的抗議 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10982.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
11007.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
所以這個部分我們希望大家互相尊重當然定位名稱就是剛剛講的自稱我們民從主人的這個概念上也有很多的臺語的團體跟使用臺語的民眾他們希望他們的名稱能夠被定義下來他希望被定義但是這個定義 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
11009.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
11035.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
這就好比如果說中文的他希望定義我中文就是國語或是我客家人希望定義台語也就是客語那這個就會造成互相自軸而且族群之間的這種對立政府施政不應該如此那我同步我也要特別對我們客委會主委提 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
11036.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
11053.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
你是身為代表我們客家族群的這個最高的行政官員就是在我們客家客委會擔任主委要替客家鄉親講話互相尊重我們當然互相尊重所以其實我從小我媽媽講台語 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
11055.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
11058.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
11072.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
11089.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
我小時候台語就是閩南語講得不是很好的時候我阿金也阿姑也會講阿你那台語說不認同所以民間我們台語閩南語我們大概有這樣的俗稱沒有錯但是你在國等於政府你這樣強制的剛剛在很多的這個答詢裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
11093.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
11111.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
你這樣強制的把直接臺語就定義你是這個閩南語其實這個是真的是很不恰當的所以我們要代表客家族群特別的來抗議好 接下來三號人員會的老主委在講啊你給客家的、客家委員會的主委啊暗度的客家的鄉親 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
11119.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
11141.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
臺語就能動不滿你對嗎?所以你要強烈的跟我們行政院：還有你跟文化部也要強烈的來溝通因為溝通,那些客家本身的民主好少啊但是我們的立場你要站穩 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
11143.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11146.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
其實我們兩個名稱都是建議所以我們就用我們的公法、社法在寫兩個名稱所以兩個名稱在說我們目前因為是你怎麼在說話啦?怎麼在說話?臺灣台語要用的名稱怎麼在說話? |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11172.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11200.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
我想每一個群體每一個群體都要一起主宗我們年輕人要沙啡我們就分手你講的我就是全部地客家鄉親基督也地啊但是總得這個名稱上絕對不可以這樣好我接著要講也請次長在如果你這樣定義下去其實我們發現有的時候在私下甚至在學校同學之間 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11201.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11223.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
他說 你是臺灣人 那不可以說台語那不能說的台語是什麼台語是什麼台語所以你會造成族群之間的一個衝突嘛所以我們真的希望這個一定要審慎而且剛剛我看很多委員也覺得大家要互相尊重本席在這邊還要表達 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11225.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11242.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
我們我相信李次長、谷主委還有本席本身我們小時候小時候我們說的國語我們認為的國家語言我們的國語我們一定那時候就是認為就是所謂的現在說的華文中文 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11243.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11272.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
但是後來就是因為族群大家要平等不能把客語、臺語叫做方言不是,都是國家語言所以我們認同我們也尊重但是你不能現在對臺灣人我現在臺語我就是閩南語我就是喉嚨話不行啦我也是半個喉嚨人啊就說喉嚨話我媽媽也是我一半協議也是這樣所以基於族群 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11273.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11296.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
平等還有我們特別提到在這個過去我們國家語言發展的會議上北區、東區的會議本席這邊的資料客家族群的抗議聲音你們都無視然後就這樣通過然後文化部這一次客家鄉親最氣憤的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11300.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11309.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
在這個原本多年以來的閩南語語言能力認證考試現在全部改成臺灣台語認證考試 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11312.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11337.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
那這個所有的族群大家都有意見我相信原住民語原住民的委員原住民族的這些原住民的我們的同國人還有我們客家族群甚至很多剛剛黃建斌委員他也代表著說閩南語的族群大家都不認同這種定義所以我們希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11338.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11345.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
能夠大家互相尊重。請文化部不要專斷專行。然後,我們請客委會一定要為客家鄉親發聲。臺港在你們的安保不滿,你們日常的創意,你們永遠都在面對你們的客家鄉親。臺港說你們的餐廳、廚房都在用,你們推廟室的客家鄉親,你們聽到嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11367.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11367.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
社盟委員會有強臺客 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11370.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11377.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
在內討論這件事：同臺價的上映：你的立場是臺價會負重贖罪：我的立場是臺價會負重贖罪：我就是贖罪基調：基調做不成本：客家人愛意結不行：原住民愛意結不行：你如果全部是臺灣的國家語言：作為少數的臺灣： |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11399.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11406.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
臺灣的語言也會有合作．所以主委你的立場還不對還不夠所以我們大家不滿我代表的就是客家鄉親 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11419.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11424.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
臺灣不要窮人的喪音：我們就探討了：我們就為全國和臺灣一起討論不是討論：你要堅定立場好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11434.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11462.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
不好意思謝謝委員再給我一分鐘其實像剛剛委員所提到的在107年之前我們這整個臺灣社會對於國語的定義事實上就像我們現在說的這個語言是所謂的華語更精確來講可能就是當年的北京話然後也做了一些轉換可是在語言發展法之後我們現在對國語的定義它不再是國家語言的縮寫我們現在定義所有的臺灣固有族群使用的都是國家語言 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11465.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11488.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
所以台灣語言、台語不能夠只是閩南語我在這邊我要特別強調民進黨你過去你一直在爭取族群的融合你說轉型正義結果現在民進黨執政了然後就多數暴力多數霸凌少數我們不可諱言 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11490.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11513.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
所謂的閩南語的現在在台灣也算多數是最多數所以你既然掌握了權力結果你的族群平等竟然做出這樣讓大家痛心我要在這裡替少數的族群講話那既然如此按照你國語的這種定義你台語就要一樣的邏輯思維來定義才對 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11516.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11538.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
所以你不能台語讀後閩南語臺灣語言、臺語是我們共同生活在臺灣包含馬族語也是、原住民語也是甚至臺灣手語、客語、華語、閩南語都是這個HoloWave全部都是好不好好啦謝謝好謝謝徐欣盈委員下一位我們請林倩琦委員諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11557.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11569.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
謝謝主席還有各位立院同仁和相關部會的夥伴大家好那我是不是可以先請文化部次長好 請李次長好 次長好那今天就你們所謂這個引起大家恐慌的這個規定我來這邊跟您做個意見交流下一頁 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11584.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11598.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
延續剛才徐昭偉所講的更改名稱的急迫性跟引起民眾恐慌這個區塊我想跟您先請教依據國家語言發展法 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11599.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11621.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
然後你們有了這些規定那我想請教一下下面有一個臺灣手語是臺灣聽障語人世間使用的手勢及視覺表現出來的自然語言那下一張 謝謝我想請教一下那全世界在通用的手語跟臺灣手語的差別您可以跟我指教一下嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11623.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11645.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
抱歉委員這個不是我的專業我無法回答或者我們可以再提供請專業人士再提供資料那我想請專業人士會後有機會讓我們了解而且這是視覺語言你們可能不要用一個公文就了事所以我想要知道的是請問我們通用的手語跟台灣手語的差別在哪裡那接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11647.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11668.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
你們剛才這邊有談到台灣的語言發展法我相信你們很熟所以這邊談到的這個自然語言、台灣手語那請問你講了台灣的範圍當你我們在講世界通用的手語台灣用的手語那請問台澎金馬的手語算不算台灣澎金馬的手語又跟台灣的手語差在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11672.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11697.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
這個部分我們當然是要用臺灣來泛指牌棚金馬這四個區域所通用的手語我們都稱之為臺灣手語那因為這些人沒有辦法發言所以如果你在臺、台、台語這件事情上引起這麼多的爭議那請問這些無法發言的用手語的人他要怎麼跟你講我剛才講的這些東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11698.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11716.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
那是你覺得泛指啊但是你在講臺灣的時候我們看到的只有所謂的臺灣那大家空間的想像就臺灣島嘛 對吧在名稱的這個議題上我們一直都有跟廳長或農人協會他們多段的溝通是跟他們溝通以後他們決定的要用這個名詞在用的差別是什麼嘛這個部分今天請你回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11723.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11729.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
或是會後提供資料,好嗎?好。然後也做個參考。然後接下來我想請教一下,請問這個台,什麼意思?呃,我不懂委員的,您要詢問的。啊,那你告訴我下面一個台是什麼意思? |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11740.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11754.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
目前我們通常會就是剛剛那個臺字的簡寫那在你們的第7頁嘛第4個引起大家恐慌的臺灣台語第一個臺是我們講的繁體字的臺嘛第二個臺是簡體字的臺嘛那請問我為什麼要用簡體字的臺來代表臺灣我的問題有兩個第一個臺灣然後再來臺語請問這兩個臺的差別在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11763.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11768.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
所以你還沒有跟大家討論臺語就是一個專有名詞了嘛那剛才大家各界在討論的臺語難道就只有你們所講的閩南語嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11781.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11783.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11802.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11830.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
那你們已經列了第4點臺灣台語請告訴我這個臺跟那個臺的差別所以你如果說是專有名詞在我們都還沒有共同認同這個臺的時候它已經是你們認為的臺啊那我一直很confuse這個臺跟另外一個臺有什麼差別好接下來齁來再往下來那個次長要不要試唸一下RexRix不知道你說Rix嗎齁然後接下來這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11833.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11836.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
文化部次長講的我這講的其實是另外一個更大的議題然後接下來下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11859.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11859.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11881.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11903.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
你怎麼會被他們都帶著走我們羅馬拼音不是這麼唸的呀所以次長我要指出來的問題是上個會期你以為我在質詢原名相關的議題所以你唸都不敢唸那我想請問一下原住民的系統是用哪種系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11905.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11934.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
語言的系統?羅馬拼音好,那臺語呢?你講的閩南語呢?我們目前在教育部裡面有四種表達方式有四種表達方式嗎?所以你,來,剛才那一頁你是不是唸一勾啊勾,對不對?然後主委,其實我們羅馬拼音是一桌一桌啊中間就有很大的差異這是我要指出來的問題你在語言教學的系統,你準備好了沒有?我跟你學的系統是很接近的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11935.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11950.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
所以我要學族語的時候呢還很大的障礙所以教學系統這個系統的完整性、多樣性不是你們講說今天我要這樣子做就可以做的啊大家很多困難啊所以我延續剛才我們召委講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11951.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11965.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
那你們臺語已經先界定它成專文有名詞再往下齁那請問那我們臺灣原住民語齁請問臺灣原住民族語言跟臺灣平普族群語言是什麼意思一個是民族語言然後一個是族群語言 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11966.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11983.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
你可以告訴我他們的差別在哪裡嗎這個部分是原住民委員會建議我們用這樣子來定名的你是主政的這個單位他們這樣子講你難道沒有研究到我剛才講的那麼多議題嗎好接下來請問你說得出來台灣這16組嗎好時間關係我們不要講了一下那這16組如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11993.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
12018.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
你把閩南語當成是一個語言叫臺語那請問我是不是你如果一定要把臺灣關上去臺灣澳美族語、臺灣泰雅族語、臺灣葛馬蘭族語、臺灣卡拉卡拉夫我們為什麼難道你們覺得我們的人少就可以把我們全部概括叫做原住民語嗎那大家知道我們有這麼多族嗎你們在解決問題的時候常常把我們當成同一族在處理跟解決原鄉不一樣、都會不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
12020.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
12043.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
語言的概念上是不是也應該思考：而且如果是如同部長講的冰違語言：哪些語言更冰違：所以不要引起我們恐慌好不好大家說說看你把它檯面上 檯面化而且很單一的一個取向我們民族情感是被多大的傷害謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
12055.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
12056.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
客家委員會主任委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
12079.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
12082.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
主委今天針對我們的客家語言我們從111年8月22號我們國家語言的發展報告我們參與國家語言的整體發展方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
12099.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
12122.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
現在我們的臺灣原住民語言、臺灣的客語、臺灣的台語跟名為台語、馬祖語還有臺灣的索語我們也知道我們針對說客家語言在這幾年會推動並不是很理想因為本市在這邊我也看到因為在我的選區 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
12124.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
12141.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
我用台語在我的選區我們的客家人比例是外來人口是最高所以外來人口最高很多我的選區裡面你說年輕一輩他們都也不會去講什麼客語有說台語 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
12145.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
12149.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
12162.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
12177.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
那是不是因為現在已經科技時代是不是可以用AI的翻譯這樣年輕人吸引年輕人我看這個比例應該還會再提高一點是不是請指揮來做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
12178.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
12182.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
感謝吳委員,我個人與吳委員的說法,就是現在香港人用手機運用、縮短、方便,所以我們應該利用手機內建、擬人、帶業來 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
12194.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
12199.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
因此,我們經營經營的有一個內通：有一個內通就是行言的信義法：接下來就提到委員講的,我們當然會有一個翻譯：跟合法的翻譯的內通會出來：從日調都在提供本 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
12214.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12218.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
所謂的學生和聖人：其實這方面做的是學習：也是為了行業：你從神法：比方說語言：教學：也在創造內容：做到的運用：所以客家的流動：其實這部分我們呢：你從神法提供：但根據從委員的說法：我們要求也在現時的沙非的變化：來做改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12244.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12261.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
好的 因為我們說我們現在說中文的人士還是比較多再來就是最大的族群就是我們台灣人台灣人的比例要再來到31.7但是在我們客語的比例是1.5%這比例還是偏低但是我說過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12267.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12293.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
我都是這樣說你說要讓他們去講客語就是我們現在的年齡層差不多60歲以上但是你在年輕的一輩在外面我們跟他們在一起的話很多人在講客家語言所以說這是未來我們要推廣你說到底要推廣你一定要有誘因包括說你一個客語的認證你認證 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12295.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12316.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
下來你這認證有什麼作用?有什麼福利?什麼誘因?人家會說想要去扣這認證所以說你要針對這一點,因為我們一些社團我來補助你,補助你,你要有多少的認證,我們才符合我們的資格 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12316.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12319.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12332.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12344.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
是否在誘因的部分我們要去訴求你說補助的部分就是來你這個社團你在推廣你有多少的認證我們就拿這個成績來給予補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12348.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12348.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
三、感謝委員會主任委員會主任委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12368.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12370.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12396.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12422.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
委員好 主委好 主委 再次的感謝你在我們三峽的客家園區旁邊我們的原住民部落現在已經都定案了但是他這個方面 我們的原住民這個園區我們有去會刊但是你要去廣納他這個裡面的建制一定要把它作為完善一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12423.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12436.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
會開放給我們社區的民眾他們都來參與我們投入這些錢才有用是 也希望這個附近的這個基金也都能夠用得上用得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12439.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12453.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
對,對,對,因為那個地方也環境,地理環境是非常的符合我們原住民還有我們的一些廣泛的民眾他們來使用,包含我們裡的他們的活動都可以廣納進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12454.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12477.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
因為在三峽在北大那個地方其實也沒有什麼一個很寬闊還有我們的園區裡面可以讓他們來做不管是舞蹈任何老人的活動這我們都要極力的開放給他們來一起參與好不好好謝謝辛苦你了謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12482.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12491.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
謝謝吳祈明委員我們現在來處理臨時提案共一案請宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12494.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12521.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
經查,原住民族委員會曾志勇主任委員於今年9月26日至10月3日以總統特使身份赴帛琉共和國出席該國獨立30周年相關慶典祭系列活動為履行國會監督之職責,臺灣民眾黨團於2024年10月1日行文請原住民族委員會提供曾志勇主任委員赴帛琉共和國之完整形成列表為原住民族委員會僅於2024年10月8日提供外交部兩份新聞稿 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12522.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12549.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
具不提供完整行程列表．亦無任何正式書面說明．無法提供之依據．執意隱匿規避監督．為避免政府預算遭濫用．請原住民族委員會、恰外交部．與一周內江曾志勇主任委員．赴柏流共和國之完整行程列表．及行程支出明細送交內政委員會．以落實國會監督。宣讀完畢臨時提案照案通過請問各位委員有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12550.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12552.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
請張宏祿召委請麥克風提供麥克風不好意思 主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12571.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12593.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
我對這個內容提供我沒有意見但我覺得有一些文字我們是不是修一下比如說那個那個什麼拒不提供完整行程列表什麼我覺得這這應該把它換了因為那是要外交部提供也不是原民會啊我覺得不需要這樣啦那另外再來就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12594.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12609.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
那個列表形成支出名氣送交內委會但以機密文件處理因為我覺得這也是涉外的關係我覺得還是要有點保密我們不是不給委員看但要有機密的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12612.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12629.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
就本席的了解這個好像他們雙方已經有互相溝通協調過這個原民會主委好像也沒意見也簽名了那所以這個部分是不是如果原民會主委都沒有意見的話那我們請麥議政委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12630.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12633.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12654.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12664.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
我們的主委的行程要給我們他也同意所以說這個是我們已經達成共識了所以這個是沒有問題的以上報告本席這邊這個當然這個主委你確定齁你說一下你確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12677.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12700.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
私押 你確定 但是委員私押 你要不要確定不要亂講話 我哪有私押 這個不是私底下開玩笑的我不能這樣講 我反對你這樣講我們私底下開玩笑 你看我現在是在開會 你不能這樣說我私押 這樣不對喔我是委員 我是委員 我請他說明是我的權利啊什麼叫我私押 不可以這樣講啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12702.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12718.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
來請曾主委我們會洽外交部這個行程來提供但是前面這個是不是就不要我們沒有拒絕啦就是我們因為我是以特使的身份出去的是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12719.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12730.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
不要再特使這兩個字了啦曾主委我知道你是特使啦好不好可是人家的獨立慶典是10月1號你幾號去的啊你告訴大家你幾號去的啊你26號就去了你知道嗎而且26號你們同行的也有副主委啊人家1號才國慶你26號那麼早去你要幹嘛你閉掉總質詢我還沒有請你講話 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12747.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12757.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
你要避掉總質詢是不是你避掉總質詢是要避掉進訪補償最大的問題嗎這是第一個第二個我還查了班機 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12758.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12760.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12777.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12781.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
趕快盤點把你們覺得禁法補償、自愛難行、不足的部分再提供給行政院院長來參考你連這個你都不願意,你26號就去了你心中還有主計長在心裡面跟你講的話嗎?我可以講話嗎?還沒,我還沒請你講,對不起 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12799.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12816.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
更何況今天臨時提案上面講具不提供完整的行程列表我早就請原民會提供給我了你們就是具不提供啊這句話有哪一點不對再來請原住民族委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12818.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12845.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
洽外交部於一周內將曾志勇主委赴帛琉共和國的完整行程列表及行程支出明信送交內政委員會以落實國會監督這你也同意的文字修正嗎你還有什麼意見謝謝你可以說話了我說我說前面這個我們願意洽這個外交部但是重點是我今天不是以顏明慧的主委出去的我是以這個特審的身份出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12845.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12869.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
而且我再跟委員說明他整個他是獨立30週年的系列的活動好啦我懂啦好啦我懂我懂我懂我懂我懂我懂你是特使你知不知道伯列總統那幾天在哪裡啊在台灣你特什麼使啊你就直接提供你們為什麼提早去跟誰去花了多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12870.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12874.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
有不能提供的嗎 這時候機密可言好了啦 你很大 你是總統的特使好不好我沒有說很大啦我知道啦 你一直要強調你是特使嘛我現在就請問你 你們找去幹什麼伯樂總統還在台灣 你們找去幹什麼是他們預先就安排一些國務部的拜訪預先 預先 你已經有副主委去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12891.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12895.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
你已經有副主委去了25號主計長25號主計長在我的辦公室已經請你趕快請問一下到現在你提供了沒有你的副主委在那裡你也去那裡你覺得這樣OK嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12909.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12920.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
我不是以原民會主委的身份契的嘛那你現在是什麼身份我當時是以這個身份契那金髮補償是不是你主委的業務是啊對啊那為什麼主計處叫你25號趕快提供你也沒提供26號的總質詢你就避掉你這個不是避是什麼我沒有避掉這種事情開始比較大是不是原民會的金髮補償預算你根本就不放在心裡是嗎我沒有不放在心裡啊那很好趕快提是 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12940.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12940.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
主席、各位委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12987.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12998.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
好 這個有請文化部的次長還有教育部好 請文化部李次長、教育部梁司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
13003.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
13031.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
委員好次長好這個原住民族語言發展法是根據民國94年通過的原住民族基本法我當時是擔任延民會常務副主委送到行政院當時的行政院文件會也在草擬國家語言發展法送到行政院討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
13034.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
13059.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
討論的結果因為這個認為說就定一個國家語言發展法就好 言明會的語言發展法先不要但是行政院當初沒有辦法完成是因為就是因為閩南語這個用詞當時有很多的主張說要用臺語 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
13062.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
13091.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
有人不喜歡用閩南語就是因為這個部分整個國家語言發展法當時沒有通過為什麼會有意見原住民族有意見客家委員會客家人有意見不能讀獲閩南語稱為臺語大家一般民間說了沒有關係但是你要成為法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
13092.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
13118.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
成為一個國家的用詞就要尊重各個族群你這樣是撕裂了臺灣的族群這個你可能不知道當時的言由是這樣好我當立委之後我當時就跟當時的文建會主委後來的文化部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
13120.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
13148.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
前任的那個馬英九任內那個學者龍應台我說國家語言發展法因為閩南語、臺語的用詞被擱置那我們原住民族語言發展法先上路後來換成這個鄭麗君部長現在的副院長我也跟他協調他同意所以原住民族語言發展法就上路 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
13149.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
13175.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
第一條的第一句話原住民族語言是國家語言這是我唯一的提出來的條文當時文化部有意見連延民會的主任委員已降保也有意見我堅持後來通過了所以才有後來國家語言發展法我跟鄭麗君部長溝通協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
13177.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
13203.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
才有現在的條文國家語言一律平等國民使用國家語言不應受歧視或限制台灣的國家語言台灣的都是國家語言是這樣來的固有族群的語言都是國家語言那你現在脫度你用什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
13205.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
13227.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
國家語言發展法的第幾條然後施行細則他是要針對濱嶺的族群的語言你閩南語有濱嶺嗎你用這樣的一個你整個報告根據國家語言發展法第幾條然後施行細則第幾條然後我就把閩南語稱為臺灣台語 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
13233.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
13260.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
每一個只要中文聽得懂的人臺灣語言的簡稱就是臺語這還用變嗎臺灣語言的簡稱就是臺語一般民間講習慣沒有關係但是你要成為一個國家的正式的用詞當時我剛剛講了歷史背景當時陳水扁總統任內 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
13262.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
13282.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
國家語言發展法沒有辦法通過就是因為不要撕裂族群不要硬強推閩南語成為臺灣台語的用詞所以 文化部啊我們臺灣的族群還要這樣去撕裂嗎教育部你們更可惡為什麼說可惡 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
13295.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13323.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
你們的閩南語言的認證說費標準是不是已經修正了?什麼時候修正了?今年修正幾月幾號?不知道九月三十號你們依行政程序法公告、議告 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13324.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13342.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
要把閩南語語言認證的說廢標準這是法規命令啊這是法規啊你根據一個文化部行政合定的一個用詞你要去修法律、法規它是法規啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13348.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13376.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
你預告期間我問你那個同仁你協助協助說明預告期間有沒有原住民族跟客家族群建議你詢問你不可以不可以把閩南語修正為臺灣台語有沒有有吧有沒有正式的公文 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13379.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13407.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
什麼叫陳情本席依據依據行政程序法的依告有意見的不是陳情的用此錯誤你回去去跟那個法務部瞭解一下什麼叫行政程序法什麼叫依告那個不是要陳情的對於法規命令有意見的可以提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13408.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13437.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
你們理都不理啊完全不理完全不理直接就公發布是不是這樣你們又把那個各各你們又把各族群包括立法委員最起碼我有正式的發文啊我有正式發文啊原住民族很多族群有提出意見客家也有你們完全 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13440.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13467.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
所以表示你對法規還是不了解要請你們那個教育部的法規會好好地指導今天這是法規違反國家語言發展法違反國家語言一律平等不應受歧視這個就是歧視 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13471.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13499.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
文化部這不是那麼單純的為什麼要去撕裂族群客家委員會、原住民族委員會也不積極所以這個部分我希望今天教育部來的成績非常低了你們回去好好的報告報告給部長 以上 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13501.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13527.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
謝謝委員好 謝謝鄭天才委員接下來我們請楊瓊英委員謝謝主席 楊瓊英發言 邀請我們主委、客委會主委還有教育部、文化部 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13528.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13533.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
請谷主委、文化部理事長、教育部梁司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13534.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13560.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
是 我想我們本席我們一併討論是一個尊重平權的一個概念那這個我們原本就有我們的法規在2019年的時候公告的國家語言發展法第三條明確的規定國家語言是指臺灣各固有族群使用之自然語言及臺灣手語 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13561.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13564.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13584.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13610.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
來讓他通過那請問在預告當中有人提出不一樣的見解你們怎麼做處置請做說明報告委員當然在預告當中如果有一些意見的表達我們就是會去做回覆做回覆怎麼樣不理之我就是要瞞幹我就要這麼走說明說為什麼會這樣做的理由為什麼這麼做的理由人家是不認同的難道我們這個政府就是你要想做什麼就做什麼嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13612.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13622.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
這不是一般的政策這是法律定定之你來一個預告人家有意見你仍舊告訴他我為什麼要這麼做你有沒有考慮到我們的族群裡頭他認不認同臺灣這麼好的一個國家竟然連這一個都要把它撕裂這是怎麼回事啊怎麼的一個邏輯 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13639.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13649.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
你們麻煩的做再請教三位當人民看到你們在9月30號如此的作為他們的吶喊你們聽到了沒你們聽到了沒你們做好感想請做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13653.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13665.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
請做說明我們有反映在文化部的國家語言範圍內就有增加客家的從詞所以我們有反映他的問題我們希望以後多多交通我們有反映他的事情還是依照你們的作為來 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13679.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13706.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
你聽到人民在那喊人民不一樣的意見 你在心裡做個感想謝謝委員提問 我想各個族群的情感都是政府需要去面對然後需要去安撫那這一些覺得有受傷的部分 文化部會持續在法令主管機關那邊多做的溝通我真的暈倒了 行政部門你自己還承認是有受傷 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13708.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13724.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
你整個我四個字送你啊獨尊霸權這不是國家語言法的初衷不是這樣子的你已經看到是有受傷你還去安撫我明明不需要你安撫啊為什麼要安撫 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13726.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13739.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
這種邏輯太奇怪了到底是聽命誰敢這麼大膽的做這種事情去撕裂我們所有的族群台灣最珍貴的民主自由族群融合 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13740.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13758.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
平權概念這是臺灣最寶貴的為什麼連你行政部門在執行都認為有傷害你還要去安撫這為什麼會如此的作為呢這麼貿然作為呢難怪我送你四個字叫做獨尊霸權我不知道是誰去做這樣的決定人民的吶喊這麼大聲族群吶喊這麼大聲 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13771.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13796.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
你們各司本職應當要提出你們的論點告訴政府一個政府是必須要橫向去聯繫去討論去探求明末怎麼樣讓我們的國家能夠更加的安定人民更加的有尊嚴這是我們必須要做的所以你們審慎去思維像這樣的一個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13798.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13821.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
不只是獨尊霸權你還是扶老霸權從這兩三個月來地方所發出的抗議他們非常的卑微的一個要求我們只要求族群平等、語言平等這是我們所要求的而且是政府必須要做的你們再審慎為之再去討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13825.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13839.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
你怎麼樣安撫這一道傷口已經在傷口上灑鹽這不是我們所要看的所以你們審慎的將我們所發言的內容人民的心聲你要審慎為之 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13841.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13847.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13860.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13885.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
相對於105年你提升了0.5 增加了14萬但是我們來看本市非常重視我們的客語想盡了一切辦法我們不管唱歌啊跳舞啊引起大家的注意引起大家的興趣我一直努力的在推動我們的客語那所以因此我們看到講客家語言的人主委反而是減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13886.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13891.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
你相對105年會聽的到現在從64.3%到現在56.4%會說的像剛剛我聽得懂但是我沒有辦法講所以我還在精進會說的從105年46.8%到現在38.3%你降低了8.5% |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13912.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13921.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
你使勁的告每一任的主委都告訴我你們要各方面洪荒之力全部下但是給我們的結果論是往下滑要怎麼做 請教主委感謝永議員沒錯 要二議員復正一定困難要困難真是要靠臺客的天數我認為合理非在各方面各兩位各個層次都 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13942.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13951.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
與我們的遺孫、幼兒體育所有方面﹐我們為法規度、精神體育的部分﹐再來,我們會透過內討﹐由年及年 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13956.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13969.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
字典內綁起內,即是說手把手,人人說手把手,一個一個帶,主要都會為港語語言的意識提供,即使像這樣,像這樣沒有語言意識,還是會影點,所以最主要還是語言的意識。 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13976.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13989.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
主委你現在回覆到這裡都是照原本的照本宣課你沒有提出你的方案你冷靜去想一想我們在地方上在辦的時候我們甚至以家庭式在辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13990.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
14007.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
家庭式的歌唱家庭式的故事戲劇為什麼要這麼做我們希望一代傳一代一代傳一代讓家庭式更加的團結然後去發揚光大 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
14007.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
14018.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
你要去想方法而不是依照你目前你花了這麼多錢你一樣是下滑而且速度這麼恐怖就已經在下滑了8.5%了你竟然還來搞了一個這個這個讓人家沒有辦法接受的族群撕裂 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
14026.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
14043.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
太離譜了,所以主委我把這個功課給你,你要怎麼樣去推展,你把方案去想一想,多久時間給本席,你們的進行方案。我們繼續在兩禮拜那一本議案跟所有的報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
14044.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
14071.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
教育、家庭、要服務、請人家去推薦的,這樣可以提供體驗好,你把這個時間點給我最後一個議題我再給你,105年你所謂的臺三線這個克中浪漫大道治理平台到了109年你再擴大所謂的369治理平台那你也橫跨了18個部會跟地方政府組成的客家政策國家隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
14073.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
14096.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
這也可以顯示政府對於客家政策的決心推動﹑給予高度的支持但是突然來了一個語言的撕裂﹑讓我們心很痛但是我還是勉勵﹑鼓勵政府必須好好去做我們的世界客家博覽會﹑去年66天有一萬一千人 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
14100.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
14127.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
我們非常地歡喜希望能夠再精進那麼在接下來你客委會對於整個推動客家語言的復振那麼文藝復興跟客家經濟的發展這些客家事務你要怎麼樣去創造在臺灣友善的社會環境我想這是主委你必要做的那你把精進方案給本席大概多久時間 告知本席請用 兩禮拜會提供好 你把它精進 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
14130.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
14150.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
最後本席還要再勉勵法令定制行政命令來一個預告民眾抗議民眾已經提出不一樣的論點你們各司本職的要勇於講出你們的心聲要不然 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
14151.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
14174.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
你們今天擔任的這麼重要的職務竟然是作為筷子手讓族群撕裂這是對不起我們的人民的所以我在這邊嚴肅的告知必須好好的去思維要怎麼樣讓我們的族群能夠有平權的這樣子的一個方陣這才是國家之福好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
14175.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
14182.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
所謂的語言都在臺灣的國家語言我們建議不侵犯民意的都不侵犯不可能啦!就已經族群撕裂了還叫人家不要不可能啦!主委你好好去思考啦!謝謝我們不為議議的問題有選擇性的建議用法 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
14204.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
14211.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
主委要站穩正確的立場來謝謝楊瓊瑩委員接下來請張雅琳委員謝謝主席那我們有請文化部次長跟客委會主委請李次長以及谷主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
14236.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
14262.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
我想其實我自己是在厚隆出生厚隆其實是一個台語的它是海線我們其實講台語為主但是因為其實在我們那個地方如果你還要升學你到高中以後你大部分都要去苗栗市去升學其實大部分人到那邊都要講客語所以我小時候每次只要進到了苗栗市我都覺得好像到了另外一個世界因為我們要切換那個語言 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
14263.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
14291.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
所以我自己其實聽得懂大概六七成的客語因為在那個環境之下讓我有那個我覺得那個算是優勢啦我可以講台語也可以聽得懂客語這樣子所以對我來說這兩種都是臺灣非常重要而且非常珍貴的本土語言那也都是大多數人在那個地方生活的人會使用到的一個生活語言所以也是許多人的一個母語那長期以來其實我非常關注這個母語政策尤其是本土語言的附贈 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
14293.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
14313.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
所以我剛剛聽到說我們其他的委員說今天在講這件事情是一個撕裂其實我是覺得蠻心痛的啦因為我認為我們今天做這件事情並不是在做一個撕裂的動作怎麼說呢?我自己看到《國家語言發展法》的第三條裡面其實它是怎麼說的?它是台灣各固有族群使用的自然語言及台灣手語 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
14314.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
14335.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
所以這個法律文字其實展現了一個包容性就是固有的一個使用的自然語言就是我剛剛講的一個狀況那同時在國家語言發展報告裡面它其實在口語名稱還有書面建議名稱都有講尊重各族群對其名稱之認定及彙整各種民間自稱及學術資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
14336.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
14358.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
促進來族群和諧尊重多元文化的發展所以我想在我們的整體報告裡面其實都一直在強調一件事情就是民粹族人的概念這個族群怎麼去認定他自己我們都尊重那這個國家語言發展法提供了一個建議我想這個是客委會跟次長應該都認同我這樣子的說法跟解讀 對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
14361.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
14368.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
那同時我自己會認為其實台灣不管是任何一個語言我們本土也遇到最強大的一個問題其實是華語獨霸 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
14373.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
14388.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
華語獨霸是華語的這個過去這麼多年來的一個文化的侵蝕從教育、從文化各個面向造成了我們母語現在處在這樣子的狀況從臺灣台語來看我們其實只有689萬人而且這是2020年的資料客語更少只有32萬9千人所以其實我們應該是要團結 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
14396.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
14413.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
而不是在這邊一直持續的撕裂好像今天做這件事情就是撕裂族群我剛剛實在是有點聽不下去母語面對的狀況最大再強調一次就是華語霸權所以我們應該怎麼樣的來去積極從各個面向來去強調我們相關的母語的政策本土語言的推廣 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
14415.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14432.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
那我自己看了齁就是當時我們在講氧氣這個字在台語其實是跟隨著日語當時的發音喔就是伸手那我想問一下齁就是我們其實因為語言會與時俱進嘛齁我們加上台灣台語其實是想要強調一個所謂的本土化嘛對嗎我想問請教次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14436.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14453.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
其實臺灣台語當然就是剛剛講是因為固有族群在這個地方自然發展出來的所以因為我們曾經有荷蘭統治或者是有日本統治然後到國民時期所以這個語言它其實已經涵蓋了非常多種不同語言的來源而產生的 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14454.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14474.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
對 所以其實呢我們今天強調這個所謂的臺灣、臺語或是什麼之類的其實都是在強調一個屬於我們本土發展的一個脈絡嘛那我想請教客委會主委我們的客語有沒有隨著日本時代或是荷蘭時代等等而流變產生的客語的語言用詞上面有融入本土化的色彩呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14474.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14481.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
有,合法的共用、歸導的用語或用外來語、外來語或其他族群的語言、歸導的變化都是有影響嘛,對不對?都有說到外來語的影響那我想就是說,我們這個當時台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14490.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14507.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
因為在日本統治時期其實是積極的吸取西方的知識所以有很多的這些語言都使用了這個日語那我也想問一下因為其實台語字典是有在跟隨著與時俱進來興編但是我看客語字典我去查我們現在台灣最夯的半導體 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14509.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14532.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
可是我們客語字典裡面呢我找不到半導體的搜尋結果那在我們114年的客委會的預算裡面也沒有針對這些新創詞彙來去做相關的研發我認為這會是一個很大的問題因為隨著我們的客語的孩子長大他要去吸取新知的時候他到底要怎麼學他又要回到華語霸權的狀態之下所以我想請主委來說明一下這針對這樣子的新詞的編列我們的規劃是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14536.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14539.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
呃,針對它的詞彼,我們有邀請專家學長：無顧聽的來討論：當然,以為還是會加用法語：也在其他語言的稱呼來做：以為會出家翻譯：也要為經過專家學長來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14555.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14567.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
對,但是我現在已經討論了很多,聽起來已經討論了很多,那我們到底進度呢?因為總不可能一直討論之後還是沒有更新嗎?現在內同的部分我們在檢討,在做更新的工作,所以編譯的部分我們還是有做,有確定,一旦確定我們就會公佈 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14578.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14580.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
大概是預估的一個時辰呢?可不可以... 咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦?咦? |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14614.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14630.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
好謝謝張雅琳委員好接下來請葉元之委員請原民會曾主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14633.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14660.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
昨天主委好昨天在總諮詢的時候因為我後來時間到了所以有一些事情本來想跟你就教了剛好今天你有來我就延續昨天的話題我先問一下原住民委員會成立的目的是什麼是不是要照顧原住民是是吧對那當原住民被欺負的時候主委是不是應該提身而出應該吧應該應該吧你知道現在我們我們新北市很多原住民朋友包括有一些民意代表跟我反映說原住民現在已經被污名化 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14661.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14663.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14677.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14691.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
但是他們現在就說好像現在還沒有審完就是已經擋了預算了導致於很多原住民就被誤會以為說是原住民的關係還害得其他人沒有這些社福預算那身為主委的你聽到這個你不會覺得很生氣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14693.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14717.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
這個就是不是原住民的原因這是一個就是原住民的進化補償的關係所以這個就沒有辦法繼續省沒有繼續省但是那個預算今年的當然還在持續使用啊明年的預算是可以省到12月31號嘛到目前為止是沒有影響的嘛對吧但是很多人就以為說已經有影響了嘛所以就把這個氣出在原住民身上嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14718.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14736.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
那主委我覺得如果身為原住民的主委應該要去幫忙消毒這是第一件事情第二件事情很多原住民講說主委您身為原住民好像是站在政黨的立場沒有照顧原住民特別是這一次禁法補償條例本來應該是一公頃到要補助到六萬塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14737.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14752.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
那我看到你的說法是說你們在今年的原住民的預算已經比去年多12%感覺就是說我們已經對你很照顧了啦原住民我們已經很照顧了啦已經多照顧12%了啦你們還想怎麼樣你這樣的回答會讓人家有這種感覺你知道嗎沒有我說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14756.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14767.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
明年的預算跟今年比成長了12%這是事實問題是你這樣回答並沒有解決競爬補償條例掃編的問題反而會讓人家誤會說好像主委你認為12%就夠了而且更何況多的12%主要是用在哪裡競爬補償是多了8.16%那剩下4%8.16億7%左右7%左右那剩下幾% |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14784.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14813.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
剩下5%用在哪?用在譬如說用在教育、文化的部分還有這個對演的部分因為你現在講的那12%有一部分是跟競爬補償它的性質是不一樣的嘛是競爬補償的意思是說因為現在非常多原住民他要土地他要土地嘛是土地的所有權人嘛所以你禁止他們去砍伐因為可能要維持地景地貌可能是要怕破壞水土所以禁止他砍伐的補償 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14815.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14839.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
所以這個性質跟你所謂編的像其他的福利或各方面是不一樣的嘛所以原住民的朋友講說要不然這樣子你不要我禁止砍伐我也不配合禁止砍伐那你也不用給我補償我可以利用那個土地賺更多啊現在很多原住民是這樣講啊所以你用增加12%去回應競爬補償這個事情是風馬牛不相干的事啊所以我建議你不要再用這樣的話術了因為這樣子原住民聽了更生氣 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14840.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14854.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
更何況我來自新北市我本身不是原住民但我們新北市有一個烏來區烏來區裡面他受影響的是就是有500他有571.5公頃是進髮補償的土地大概有1656筆然後大概影響大概368人那這些人他們會覺得說為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14865.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14890.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
你不給我補償 你給我的補償是這樣然後不願意幫我調高 又要我禁止嘛所以這個對他們來說他們就會有這樣的一個剝削感啦所以我是覺得你不要講那個12不要再講12%然後再來就是6萬塊錢的部分6萬塊為什麼現在3萬調到6萬其實原住民朋友他也有算一個算一個這個算法出來嘛比如說平地區枯水期的補助每公頃是5萬嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14892.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14911.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
那你竟把補償已經幾十年沒有補償把過去沒有補償部分假設多多少少給點利息多給個一萬 剩六萬塊其實也是合理的所以我不知道為什麼主任你認為不合理然後你對於昨天卓榮泰院長講說如果這樣從三萬直接跳到六萬是浪費公帑你怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14912.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14922.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
不是浪費公帑就是一下子一個預算一下子成長沒有沒有浪費公帑是卓院長講的不是你講的我知道是卓院長講的對因為我在現場聽到那你覺得浪費公帑你怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14924.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14952.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
你針對他講的所以你認為他講錯嗎因為你認為他講錯嗎你覺得應該是說編太快而不是浪費公帑嗎好啦謝謝那個主委你到最後總算有道德勇氣講說院長講錯了不是浪費公帑應該是你認為循序漸進4萬到6萬慢慢來而不是說用在原住民身上是浪費啦好那你可能利用你們的內閣會議的時候跟院長提醒一下就不要講話一句話就傷了我們原住民的心啦好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14957.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14978.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
好,謝謝葉原汁委員。接下來請吳佩奕委員。謝謝主席。我請文化部理事長。好,請理事長。委員好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14978.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14993.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
四長好首先我要感謝因為文化部一直很支持流行音樂那不只文化部燕京現場也有客委會、園民會也都在支持我們用我們自己母語創作的流行音樂我非常感謝因為每一年我們在萬華有舉辦一個萬華大鬧熱的音樂祭很多的歌手例如說像客語歌手邱淑蟬然後嘻哈歌手雅痞春麵樂隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
15001.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
15020.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
那像原住民歌手引力高祿 Abus 都有來到我們萬華來演出當然還有很多是華語創作歌手非常感謝而且我覺得這樣的活動非常的有意義就在我們萬華的臺北第一條街貴陽街青山宮前面我們在地的長輩都跟我講說很少很少看到這麼多的年輕人湧入 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
15021.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
15021.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
臺灣台語 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
15052.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
15053.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
我從小到大,我爸爸媽媽說台語,但我都聽不懂 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
15068.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
15074.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
我是為我自己出來選舉開始我才從零開始學起我是怎樣用的我都先用華語寫好稿子然後呢用LINE傳給我媽媽拜託她唸一遍用台語唸一次給我聽然後錄音給我我用白的因為我的選區在中央網站區我們網站有很多的選票每天吃平安餐會都要說 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
15094.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
15099.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
所以我們現在討論的是我們臺灣所有族群所使用自自然語,也就是我們的母語都面臨了冰危的狀況,也就是傳承像我這一代,如果我的母語我沒有把它學起來我學一代要怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
15112.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
15142.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
所以我們現在在討論的是一個我們的母語面臨冰危的情況所以說今年6月的時候我在教委會質詢因為我知道我們的國家語言發展法2018年制定行政院的國家語言整體發展方案2022年開始來落實那文化部說率先了開始把我們所有建議要優先使用的名稱在一些公文件裡面先開始來使用但是呢教育部卻沒有同步 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
15142.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
15163.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
我覺得我們國家政治很重要的是一致性這是原則我們不能各部會大家各做各的所以我請我們教育部趕快要用我們行政院整體方案包括了我們網路上面的詞典的使用名稱包括我們的公文件使用名稱要以一致性的原則來落實我們國家語言整體發展方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
15164.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
15184.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
那對我來說我覺得就是一件事為什麼剛剛我說我們為什麼我們所有的既固有族群所使用的自然語都面臨冰危的狀況就是因為過去的國語所謂的國語只有一種語言就叫做華語對於其他的語言被打壓成次等的方言 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
15185.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
15205.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
所以何止是傷心．過去在威權時代．何止是傷．對於其他族群的語言使用者來說．不只是傷心．何止是撕裂．是打壓到殘廢．又殘又廢．所以我們必須要趕快來去保存．推動發展我們的母語那謝謝次長．接下來我要請我們客委會主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
15214.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
15235.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
語言的傳承非常重要我注意到課委會有一個沉浸式幼兒園的方案我們現在用補助的方式來補助幼兒園我們有三種包括沉浸式幼兒園也有全課語的幼兒園能不能請主委來向我們說明一下目前全課語幼兒園或是沉浸式幼兒園我們怎麼樣來教孩子來使用課語目前怎麼執行的 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
15236.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
15239.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
這方面 其實最主要是信心信心 要會講 要懂得講他講的話 他會帶著聲音來學所以他的反應 整個反應就會像特班一樣 所謂的很堂堂的合法 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
15253.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
15258.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
所以重點是那種形容詞所以整頁演說的形容詞都要說,不能說的形容詞都要學,要演奏、要支持演奏、支持、不能說的形容詞,要學、要說也要有方法,例如說要形容詞要問聖人說聖人要用來說,所以聖人要有神出感,說我講什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
15279.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
15303.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
我覺得這非常好因為母語的學習就是要從小開始我們的誠信是客語的幼兒園就是說園林使用50%的你們的資料目前全台灣是77間那麼全客語的幼兒園也就是說百分之百教學都使用客語的目前全台灣有7間那我們目前預算的投入客會我看是4000萬那今年你們邊境來 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
15305.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
15310.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
最佳、再增加了兩千萬：也就是未來我們會擴大來辦理：是不是?沒錯：因為你對韓社、越社越合：不予接觸、不予合：那些效果最好：所以我們要再支持：也再創始有意合合法的結團： |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
15325.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
15333.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
沒錯,全客語的幼兒園全台灣只有8間,我覺得不夠一定支持你們擴大辦理,再努力來推行所以說我剛講的這2000萬在預算裡面這叫做新興預算所以我也要拜託所有我們支持客語發展的委員們 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
15341.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
15369.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
大家一定要來支持我們的總預算因為今年總預算沒有過只能沿用去年度的我們沒有辦法再擴大辦理這個很重要所以主委你也要努力的來跟所有的委員溝通我們希望我們的客語幼兒園可以再繼續的擴大辦理努力的把我們的孩子不管是哪一個族群的孩子從小就可以來好好的學習他的母語好不好好 感謝五委員﹑也感謝所有的委員的支持感謝好 謝謝 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
15372.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
15373.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
吳培宇委員陳培宇委員禮次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
15395.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
15406.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
市長好,請問你會講台語嗎?好,會啊。應該是會啦。是。他剛才配音,他很認真,講台語給大家聽。他跟我們說,他是很怕病,出來社會後開始餓。我要跟市長報告,我小時候,阿公阿嬤也是教我講台語。但是,我去到後來,我一天覺得,我如果講台語,我就要被騙到門口。 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
15419.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
15419.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
我確實經驗過這個生命歷程 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
15434.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
15445.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
甚至在我不想掛狗牌我跟老師抗議的時候老師說那你就罰錢啊你只要在班上不小心講到台語你就要罰錢我班上也有客家話的同學講客家話也被罰錢罰不出錢怎麼辦我就被叫去門口刷牙 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
15449.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
15467.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
所以我跟次長報告我牙齒現在非常好但是我一點都不想感謝這個獨尊華語的政策所以如果今天有任何的臺灣族群認為自己的母語受到侵蝕、受到壓迫我非常認同張雅琳委員說的它其實是獨尊華語 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
15468.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15494.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
非常多年的政策底下導致於全臺灣所有的母語包含剛剛的原住民委員談的事情所有的母語都遭到壓抑這是我個人在整個語言發展臺灣語言發展史上的認知不知道次長你覺得我說的對不對是的就是所以我們之所以去修訂國家語言發展法就是希望能夠彌補然後調整我們過去錯誤的語言政策上留下來的這樣的一個遺憾 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15494.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15503.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
我從早上聽到現在沒有一個委員提起這件事情我要提醒所有的黨籍立委我們在1972年甚至還韓令電視台每天播出的台語節目不得多於一個小時甚至還有當時的國民黨文工會進而要求台視要審查劇本 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15511.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15527.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
在當時的劇本審查不過底下還有很多台語的節目就被停播如果大家想一想小時候的記憶就會知道為什麼今天所有的母語族群要共同來面對國家語言發展法這件事情如同主委說如果你覺得我剛剛說明是對的那我們來看一下來下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15529.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15557.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
這個是臺語文創園區辦的所有跟臺語有關的活動包含從禁歌開始如果大家記憶可及我們小時候多少禁歌多少禁書都是跟語言有關而且都是因為來自於我們每一個人的母語這是臺語的部分再來下一張在客委會的支持下非常多年的預算甚至有專業的主管機關專責的主管機關我們看到有客家文化體驗活動客家小旅行客家語言的學習活動客家美食的推廣活動下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15558.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15576.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
在原民會主管機關的支持底下：我們有非常多原住民族語言的活動、演唱會：包含剛才佩儀跟雅琳委員都說了：我想要問次長：在這個共同的論述底下：文化部如何看待不同的母語：在這個情況：目前大家這個對立的情況：次長你怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15579.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15596.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
我們剛剛講就是今天台灣的本土語言會遭受到目前都瀕臨失傳的傳承的危機是因為過去的不當的語言政策所以我們現在修改了一個最大的原則就是所有的固有語言都是稱為國家語言 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15597.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15617.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
所以國語這個詞就不再是最屬於華語所以我剛剛都說華語嘛 對不對你有發現我都說華語也就是如果各位認真去研究國家語言發展法會發現我們不再說國語了以前獨尊華語的情況下彷彿臺灣這個國家只能有一種語言所有的母語我要再次強調所有的母語都被壓抑都被打壓 對嗎我阿公阿嬤 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15625.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15637.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
我們來往下看下一頁所有人都有提到所有的語言社群都有權利以自己的語言來稱呼自己我想我就不再舉例次長你一定非常清楚來看下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15637.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15664.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
所以我自己真的認為臺語是臺專有名詞並不是代表全臺灣的臺語這件事情我要為所有在臺灣這個土地上講著自己母語的人發聲我沒有只想要為所謂講臺語的族群發聲我認為所有的母語都必須受到尊重而且受到重視並且在相關部會主管機關的協助之下用力的推廣用力的讓他講得更多講得更好我們來看下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15665.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15688.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
但是大家很好奇臺灣台語這個詞怎麼來相關的新聞其實曾桂海醫師當年有提到甚至呢看下一頁當時的客委會的主委其實他也是客家人可是他也認同這個寫法所以我想要說的是其實如果硬要扯回閩南語這件事情其實在學理上還有非常多還需要討論的事情我想我時間有限我就不再說可是在臺灣的民眾的調查當中大部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15689.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15705.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
百分之八十五的臺灣民眾認為自己使用臺語一詞只有百分之十五的民眾使用閩南語一詞這個我覺得要再次強調所以我認為這件事情完全沒有這個問題好下一頁但是我要提醒大家它是什麼時候被改的1960年代以後我給大家看一個證據來下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15708.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15726.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
這個書是在1954年臺灣省國語推行委員會編印當時蔣中正先生他就寫這個課本是他審定過的叫做臺語方音符號課本跟注音臺語上面還有蔣中正三個字我要提醒忘記這段歷史的所有在臺灣這塊土地上的人當時臺語這個是就已經存在在臺灣這個土地上所以對我來說下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15734.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15761.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
我認為台灣台語符合國家語言的精神而且它同時沒有排擠到壓抑到其他的語言但是也要再次拜託文化部包含客委會跟主委會我們在台灣所有母語的推廣上跟資源挹注上我們都要更加用力不管是在學校在日常的生活在飲食的推廣在旅行上我相信讓所有的母語蓬勃同步的發展不要再只是獨尊華語應該是我們接下來非常重要的行政目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15763.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15765.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15791.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15804.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
主席,有請文化部、教育部來,請李次長,還有梁司長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15805.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15828.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
教育部在7月中旬預告要將閩南語語言能力認證考試規費收費標準改名為臺灣台語語言能力認證考試收費標準引發了一些討論但是目前看起來教育部是不為所動所以9月30日如預告所示要把閩南語改為臺灣台語 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15831.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15859.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
最近我剛好看到有很多網友對於台語有關的議題有點困惑那我想聽聽兩位對於這些網友的意見的看法有一位網友在PTT發文說他到廈門他被嚇到了為什麼呢廈門人台語之標準沒有奇怪口音說得比自己台北同學還要好讓他以為他在台灣這是一位網友的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15860.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15862.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
中國人想學台語讓他很不舒服 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15871.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15899.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
尤其中國的音樂節目裡面竟然也唱臺語歌曲使用我們的文化符號讓他很不爽覺得被冒犯了那也有網友說對於馬來西亞的朋友會說臺語的問候語三字經他十分訝異他說原來臺灣的這個問候語已經發揚到世界各地去那我想要請教一下我們的理事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15900.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15929.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
你覺得為什麼廈門人的台語會說得這麼好啊?這怎麼回事啊?廈門人應該是擅長說他們的廈門話。廈門人用的就是閩南語啊。就是閩南語。你有沒有去過廈門?沒有,抱歉。對嘛,我去過。真的,就是那網友講的。你們都覺得我在台灣嗎?會有這種時空感,你知道嗎?因為他的閩南語跟台灣的閩南語是同源的啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15931.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15955.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
應該這樣說,如果是一個比較善於常用臺語的人員來講,到了廈門去應該還是可以聽得出來廈門話跟臺語之間的差距。你這樣跟我講口音當然,我跟你講宜蘭跟這個,跟那個高雄口音就不一樣啊,當然口音有些微差距啊,你不能用這口音的些微差距跟我講就是說,沒有關係啦,我覺得,次長,我現在請教你下一個問題啊,啊中國人怎麼可以唱台語歌? |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15957.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15983.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
這個由中國他們來決定你會不會覺得被冒犯我沒有被覺得如果廈門人唱閩南語歌你會不會覺得被冒犯當然不會你對於閩南的一些民眾他講閩南語跟台灣現在我們用的閩南語就是同源第三個我要問馬來西亞的朋友也會說所謂的臺語你會壓抑嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15986.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
16005.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
不會啊不會嘛因為也是同源啊都是閩南語啊我們現在通稱的臺語是福建省閩江以南通用的語言是從明清時期從閩南地區移出去的人都會講閩南語啦那閩南人講、臺灣人講、新馬的華人也講 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
16008.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
16036.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
所以全球各地說閩南語的人都能溝通無外那閩南語保留中原古音甚至被認證為所謂古漢語跟活化石傳承古老的和樂文化當然我也理解為什麼今天教育部要這麼做因為跟一貫的所謂的去中化的系列是有一些關聯可是基本上你還是要去看看所謂的淵源跟歷史 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
16037.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
16053.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
那你把所謂的閩南語把它改成所謂的臺灣台語把它所謂的塑造成所謂的有些人就會認為說你這樣的一個做法你反而變成像高安會造成前面很多人的困擾他覺得為什麼中國人會說台灣話 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
16055.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
16076.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
其實中國人說的是閩南話跟台灣人說閩南話是同樣的道理那當然文化部以所謂的專屬表徵化為名義訂出所謂的臺灣台語、臺灣客語、臺灣原住民語這些名稱實際上某種程度你只是把所謂的本來簡單的事情變得更繁複了 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
16076.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
16093.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
事實上我剛剛我看前面那個陳培瑞也講確實阿在台灣很多的民眾使用閩南語的民眾他有時候講就是方便起見通稱他就用台語了可是當你這麼定的時候就出現一個問題第一個請問日本人會說他講的是日本日語嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
16095.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
16125.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
就日語嘛英國會講它是英國英語嗎德國會講它是德國德語嗎自英國獨立的美國也不會講它是美國美語啊它只有美式英語這樣的說法而已那也就是說今天說實在話本來齁在所謂的意義上不是講通稱意義上的台語它其實包含了閩南語在臺灣用的閩南語也包含了所謂的原住民語也包含了客家語言 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
16125.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
16129.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
二、邀請圖權級委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
16151.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
16179.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
好 謝謝主席 那麻煩請我們谷主委好 谷主委土平先生主委 我請問那針對我們今天閩南語改臺灣台語這部分文化部說他們的書面用語命名考量是要堅固不想排除在臺灣語言之外和尊重各族群對語言的自稱 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
16180.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
16205.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
那針對這部分他說他們有針對國人對語言的稱呼做了調查才把各種國家的語言定為現在公布的名稱那我想請教主委那我們客委會有沒有針對客家族群做調查詢問他們是否認為閩南語佔了臺語這個名稱之後有沒有讓他覺得自己被排除被擠壓 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
16206.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
16214.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
我想這樣在名稱的部分在國土每天的名錄、檔案、國土的意見無窮用就不僅好路出窮好路出窮也不是鐵板一塊的地方也有無窮用的意見客家出窮什麼窮用的地方有無窮用的意見所以在這樣立場之下我們是尊崇所有人對於講法做法其實在合理費內講 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
16235.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
16243.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
因爲要不適應、要堅持、一定要用法：所以我們都會建議用法：建議用法由我們客家、客家委員會來聽說：我可以講科羅法：不是講一些其他語言：所以在名稱當中,我們可以選擇選擇比如說,多多說的臺灣台語、臺語：臺灣的明南語 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
16262.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
16264.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
二、邀請客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
16282.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
16302.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
因為我們要討論的很多基層的客家鄉親的聲音他們很擔心客語的傳承那行政院跟文化部這樣子的面面他們一直跟我們反映包含其實原住民也是一樣他說認為這個就是欺負弱勢對於弱勢的客家人、原住民 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
16302.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
16326.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
這一部分 他們認為 如果這樣子去命名久而久之﹐會認為臺澎金馬的主流語言就是臺灣台語所以 要拜託我們客委會主委 要拜託拿出客家精神、人間精神要為我們 你是我們客委會的主委 你要為客家族群發聲我們今天不是打壓 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
16327.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
16337.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
任何一個族群．不是打壓任何一個語言．但是我們是希望能夠堅持國家語言．各族群的平等平權．你會否負責?阿雄,沒有錯．就是．不關在科羅花、荷花．也在原住民的花．各種的花．就在臺灣的國家語言．也要是沒問題的．所以要平等．才可以國家語言發達法律． |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
16356.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
16372.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
最主要的目的所以在這裡拜託因為你是我們客委會的主委我希望我們客委會發展客家這個母語是非常重要的一環那如果用這個臺灣台語居然那麼多的客家鄉親有這種疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
16374.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
16393.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
那我們客委會主委是我們客家鄉親的大家長應該站在客家鄉親的立場要為客家鄉親來發聲所以這部分希望我們客委會主委一定要拿出老人家的精神針對我們客家族群的權益一定要站出來為大家發聲 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
16394.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
16395.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
請文化部理事長請理事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
16411.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
16430.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
理事長我剛剛聽我們楊崇英委員詢問到所以針對你說閩南語改臺灣台語你說其實你們行政單位也知道這樣做基本上會造成傷害對不對因為我剛剛有聽到我不是這樣我是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
16430.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
16455.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
如果委員各界有這樣的反應有鄉親覺得這個命名有受到傷害的時候作為行政單位我們有那個責任要多做說明、多做溝通那其實事實上今天會開這個會議其實就是因為很多我們的客家鄉親、原民一些比較弱勢的族群他們就提出那麼大的反彈所以今天才會針對這個會議來做討論那我們是認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
16460.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
16485.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
基本上現在以現行來講並沒有造成什麼樣的問題我不知道為什麼我們現在我們文化部要去操作這個意識形態要去撕裂族群破壞我們彼此之間的團結現在一直以來大家都很和諧我不知道我們文化部這樣做到底有什麼意義還是文化部找不到更有意義的事情來做嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
16485.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
16512.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
市長跟委員報告當然也是臺語團體臺語鄉親不斷的希望我們要在名稱上面給予臺語一個正式地位所以我們才去訂定所謂的書面建議用語那我問你你說因為堅持用臺灣台語把閩南話改成臺灣台語是因為你們調查結果的多數尊重使用者自稱對不對是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
16512.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
16528.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
好 那我們同一個調查報告我們也看到那你們在調查國語之後講國語他們說稱為國語是使用者最多他們也認為國語是他們覺得最好的名稱那為什麼你們要把國語改成華語 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
16529.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
16554.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
跟委員報告我們並沒有去變更國語或華語這個名詞：不是你說閩南語改成臺灣台語是因為尊重使用者自稱嗎那我看到你們調查報告他們說稱為國語也是他們覺得最多最好為什麼你這個要改成華語所以我們沒有改成華語這個詞我們沒有任何的公文去要求行政單位將國語改成華語沒有還有好 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
16556.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
16568.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
那針對福州話、閩東話、閩北話他們也說比講麻族語還多也就是說稱麻族語是少的可是為什麼你們又建議要把它改成麻族語 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
16570.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
16597.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
這個部分是跟連江縣政府有做了一個溝通我們請連江縣政府告訴我們他們希望用什麼樣的語言來做自稱那你剛剛又說尊重尊重多數使用者認為尊重哪一個名稱是最好你說閩南語是因為說他用臺灣台語所以說他們說使用者自稱使用最多那一樣國語最多你要用華語那說福州話、閩東話、閩北話 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
16599.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
16618.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
講說用這個來代表性的又最多你又把它改成馬族語所以我們是希望不要多重標準不要為了想做的事情為了自己圓一個謊去定一個標準說因為是這樣那別的你又不用這個標準同樣的事情不同的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
16619.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
16634.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
所以我們在這邊真的是希望 文化部找一些有意義的事情來做不要一直操作意識形態 撕裂族群 破壞團結現在現行大家都非常和諧 整個族群都相安無事 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
16635.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
16652.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
為什麼要去造成族群的對立造成台灣民眾彼此之間為了這個語言的去爭鬥我覺得希望文化部針對這部分審慎評估來仔細來考量我們真的希望族群、國家語言平等、平權拜託拜託好 謝謝委員的指導 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
16658.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
16676.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
謝謝圖權級委員接下來請張家俊委員、張家俊委員、張家俊委員不在請鍾嘉斌委員、鍾嘉斌委員、鍾嘉斌委員不在請鄭振前委員、鄭振前委員、鄭振前委員不在請高金素梅委員、高金素梅委員、高金素梅委員不在請徐富奎委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
16687.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
16692.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
謝謝主席,我們有請客家委員會的副主委好,請副主委齊立彥主委好,各位粉絲我們從客家的字體尤其我們在這裡主委做過平等、高雄、台南的主委對我們南部的責任了解在這個過程中,我相信 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
16715.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
16716.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
二、客家委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
16734.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
16757.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
我們有業和法：也有我們的盤法：那個文化的底蘊也是站在後面：但是,我沒有看到這樣：客委會針對那個部分：來做臺立的一個推廣：我們有看到那個南北：那個客家文化：沒對待的一個情形：我們想,未來學位費： |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
16757.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
16761.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
尤其是陸續的部分,有哪些想法：來做文化的保存：還有產業的發展：請主委委員會負責。感謝市委員：莫不錯：在北部過去幾年：一定的鬧捏：浪漫退三線等等：我們還未去集合：提名的客家的企業： |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
16783.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
16784.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
財政委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
16808.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
16809.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
立法院議員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會主任委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
16826.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
16843.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
主委,如果我們看到我們剛才提到的那些浪漫台三線明年拖延到的錢甚至如常態性有補助我們平常沒有我們要去煎炮、沉淀、再去沖藥、供應的文化有法律變成常態性的經費補助的來源嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
16845.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
16856.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
目前那些都有支持但是不老闆啦國土委員都內政去緊批當然希望一度一候但是緊批還是有限就提議要依存地盤我請你來支持提防傑勤法庭所以要拜託主委我們客家文化因為行業面的鄉鎮地盤要有國土的 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
16876.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
16885.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
人體、文化、軟體的建設的部分：就放在大壁了：像我們一樣：就客家的藝文訓練團體：我們邊讀讀演唱會處理表演：但是我們一樣可能：包含客會會那篇安排上面：沒有那麼細緻：我們拼動在客家鄉鎮：有時間我們會判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
16900.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
16927.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
每部份的判決去作證：但若是老人家：若沒有方便：文化部再提訪：看我們呢：客家的節目：由法律我們來展示說：我們屏東北的：客家鄉鎮：未來鄉鎮：可以有：每年有一個常態性的：法律：可以來判斷：我們：跟提訪來討論：可以運用的來現場：可以陸續提起的：希克的表演：可以我們去：討論：進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
16930.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
16957.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
因為美麗鄉鎮有美麗鄉鎮牧群的特色尤其我們要在國土服務方面才能講、環境才能但是我們用在地藝的特色包含我們家族有小家古厝安好環境用以做亞洲文化的巡演甚至鼓勵亞洲鄉上的鼓勵其他地方做產業的發展、文化的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
16957.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
16961.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
亦到我們客戶會有沒有進一步的措施開來﹔天使亦到,好想念 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
16963.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
16970.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
由我們接下来,我會針對考試的提名的量,包括提到委員說的服務,是否有人願意以六一來做服務的贊助希望,也要說有人希望提供演出表演等等,我會來支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
16989.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
17002.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
兩位拜託主委、同學、院政府、客戶處：也是您的娘家：將會被批准、被判斷：有任何的提防：可以設法提防：作出處理主席再借我30秒 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
17004.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
17013.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
最後我希望臺灣國土委員會講到學法的推廣問題：因為若是看到國土學生要參與課語檢定：檢定是一個過程：檢定學法並從不標講：將這部分的課文用於從日常生活：從學校端用於推廣到課家的語言：讓更普遍性 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
17034.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
17056.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
議員講到重點,通過以後沒聽話講：所以我們現在合理化的政策：就是要將環境打造出來：本擴大於有擴大地方：作為使用者的意願：包括根本就像我們的答詢：我們也要用合法本套的可能度：提到說其實從那裡重合在其他地方：也要重合在哪裡：這是我們要打造出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
17060.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
17070.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
尤其在陸下要通過老人家就要考試講學法．包括要通過同學講講．到生育方面要通過學長講講．這樣繼續有那個語言的專長可以發揮．謝謝主委．平常針對六隊的建設會麻煩主委．台立的添宿．感謝齊委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
17084.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
17094.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
好,謝謝徐富奎委員接下來請丁薛忠委員、丁薛忠委員、丁薛忠委員不在、林楚英委員、林楚英委員、林楚英委員不在請伍麗華委員謝謝主席,有請圓明會主委好,請曾主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
17112.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
17138.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
委員好主委您好您是我過去的長官那我對您算是很熟悉了解我今天其實本來是要來講國家語言發展中心的設置那我等一下再問我在辦公室我發現今天這一場雖然園民會不是主場但是不分園和立委都還是很關注禁法補償的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
17139.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
17168.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
那其實我在院會總質詢大概 原民立委也都關心這一題那我不是不關心而是我覺得我過去三年前就開始質詢這個議題那很感謝大家的一個合作讓這樣的一個法案能夠修正通過那我覺得這一案就結束了可是我很憂心因為我們很多最近以來重要的原住民議題消失了 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
17169.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
17190.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
大家不斷的關注我認為這個假議題所以我很希望我們原民會能夠講清楚那這對我來講明明也沒有違法明明也發得出來但是為什麼會搞得大家這樣會聲會影、沸沸揚揚、鬼影重重 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
17191.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
17209.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
我就搞不清楚那上次主委您很棒在大家吵得沸沸揚揚的時候您有用你個人的臉書來跟大家做保證所以呢聲音就擬平了一些但是呢看起來大家還是繼續炒作 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
17211.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
17231.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
我是希望原民會能夠用公文一次說清楚也不要讓地方的這些鄉鎮長不斷地來問像我自己我都覺得我好可憐我這幾個月到全國參加各種活動鄉運也好、豐年祭也好、收穫祭也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
17233.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
17245.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
大家都要我被迫 要我表態耶我也很乾脆啊 我都有錄影存證啊他們問我都說 保證如果明年9月以後發不出來 少一毛錢 吳立華不選了主委 您懂得我的決心嗎對我來講 我們來看嘛這個我都三年前就開始質詢啦經法補償使用重發基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
17261.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
17286.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
當然合法我過去有問過三年前就問過為什麼合法因為重發基金的收支保管及運用辦法寫得很清楚限制原住民族利用原住民族土地回饋或補償支出這個法條是什麼時候修正出來的馬英九時代96年11月30因為這是辦法行政院修正通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
17288.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
17313.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
我們再來看一下到底合不合法這個公文我也問過我三年前就問過這個是主計總署發給原民會的公文寫得很清楚主計總署說循例維持公共預算及原民基金各辦負擔的方式辦理該基金如確有財務不敷在與協處 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
17315.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
17340.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
這個也是主計總署當時要開始發放禁法補償告訴你們的所以我就不理解這麼簡單一分鐘可以講完的事情難道不能發公文給大家嗎我倒是很想知道因為資料都在你們那邊但是我始終不敢質詢問這些問題因為我怕失焦我們都心知肚明 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
17342.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
17362.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
五點二萬筆我們的這些可憐的普羅大眾他只有零點二分有的人只有一公頃他能領多少錢但是你應該很清楚我做過原民處長接你的位置我看過有一個人是領一百二十二公頃欸而且我去查過不是原住民借名登記欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
17371.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
17387.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
這種事情我們原民會應該要擔負起來所以我希望說我就講到這裡我希望這個趕快擬平不要用那些亂七八糟的說法最難抗拒的說法就是兩分真八分假很多人善用話術也不是全部謊話 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
17400.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
17413.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
但是這種三分真七分假我們到底要怎麼樣去拆穿很麻煩但是我始終相信邪不勝正好嗎那我要關心一下那個文化部 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
17419.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
17443.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
文化部是我們的次長次長您好再給一分鐘就好因為我知道國家語言發展中心設置條例已經在6月就是行政院通過已經送立法院了雖然還沒有排審但是我有一些問題想要關心我第一個想要關心的就是按照這個設置條例的條文它有它的任務業務範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
17445.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
17461.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
我們原民會我們之前也已經有一個原住民族語言研究發展基金會的設置條例我們也有它的業務範圍、它的任務那對照起來講一句實在話跌床駕屋啦所以我就是想關心第一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
17463.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
17482.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
這種疊墻家屋的情形．未來兩個單位要怎麼樣的來合作這邊跟委員做說明所以如果委員可以再回到上一頁的話我們可以清楚的看到這樣在語言的語料、史料收集這一部分我們有特別強調以後語發中心做的是跨語言 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
17483.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
17495.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
而不是單一語言：如果是單一語言：像原住民的42種語言的話：它仍然屬於原住民語言研究發展基金會去處理：可是這個語發中心會處理的：比如說整個漢語系統：或是南島語系系統：它是用一個跨語言的方式去處理它那像在跟這邊有提到說：所謂的推廣使用的時候：我們在語發中心的提醒是受託辦理：因為時間的關係：所以我順著要講的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
17514.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
17532.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
經費因為我希望未來中心的經費分配上會不會因為有原語會然後你們會減少比例因為我剛剛聽我們的次長您說的時候感覺上你們是按照語言別分開嘛那未來在經費配比上 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
17535.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
17549.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
這個中心的經費應該跟各個客委會或原民會原本的經費沒有干涉會另外獨立編列經費也會另外獨立分配給他們就由這個中心來執行啊這個就是我擔心的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
17551.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
17573.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
又是跌床駕屋那意思就是說在我們文化部設置的國家語言發展中心是獨立又要一組原住民的人才在裡面嗎對 所以這個部分我們在月底的語發大會裡面就希望能夠進一步討論這個就是我要先提醒的我不希望因為有了原語會文化部將來 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
17575.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
17596.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
會覺得反正原民會你們有你們的原語會我們的任務是分開的按照語言別的你們有你們的獨立的經費我們的經費是獨立的除非你也聘了一組原住民的語言專家進到我們的國家語言設置中心次長您了解我的意思嗎那最後第三個我關切的就是說我們只有看到研究典藏 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
17599.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
17627.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
任務沒有推廣發展但是語言復正跟傳承才是我們設置這個中心的最重要任務所以我覺得我沒有看到推廣發展的部分都是在典藏典藏研究所以我希望目前草案看不到這樣相關的業務資訊那我希望說我們應該要加強語言環境的友善至少我舉一個簡單的例子就是今年有將近兩萬人去 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
17628.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
17643.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
自己回復族名但是無論去外交部的你會看到雖然我的身份證有族語跟我的那個並列但是外交部就是堅持用漢語拼音只保留他的漢名或者我們到戶政事務所 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
17644.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
17662.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
他的表單還是堅持只留他的漢字像這個都是語言發展設置中心應該要去關切觸及的一個範圍所以我在這個地方特別做這樣的提醒希望文化部在我們審查的時候一定要堅持同意嗎?好,謝謝市長,謝謝主席好,謝謝伍麗華委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
17668.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
17682.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
二、邀請邱志偉委員、邱志偉委員、邱志偉委員不在、何新淳委員、何新淳委員、何新淳委員不在、蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員不在、請洪孟凱委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
17691.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
17712.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
主席謝謝是不是主席可以請文化部次長還有我們客委會跟園民會的主委請李次長、谷主委還有曾主委李次長我先請教因為今天文化部次長表示臺灣台語沒有侵犯臺灣其他語言並存的地位的意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
17713.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
17732.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
但看到教育部把這個閩南語語言認證變成是臺灣台語然後又看到說監察委員要調查各大車站內臺語廣播腔調不一致跟發音錯誤的問題我們想要請教一下這代表什麼代表現在是臺灣台語只容許一種臺灣台語的發音存在嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
17734.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
17748.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
監察院的這個調查並不是文化部這邊去投訴票所以這我們也尊重監察院、監察委員他們的職責可是對文化部來講我們沒有要推動所謂的單一的腔調 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
17749.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
17775.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
沒有推動台語腔調因為各地方的腔調其實也是我們所謂的臺語的優美之處或是說特色之處像我來自我的老家在南投我一聽到有一些是大公這個台語的時候我就一聽我就知道說他應該就是從中部過來那當然問題在於是說在保存臺語文化的一個部分現在把它證明變成是臺灣台語到底有沒有尊重到我們臺灣其他的語言 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
17777.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
17800.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
包括說客語包括我們的原住民很多的語言這也是大家會大家會覺得奇怪的地方啊是跟委員報告因為語言的名稱的部分我們是依照國際的慣例或者是國際組織來講語言的名稱由使用該語言的人他們自稱為習慣好所以我們經過調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
17802.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
17825.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
使用台語的族群他們慣用有85%的人慣用台語這個詞來自稱他們的語言所以我們在建議的書面用語上就把這個名稱放下去可是在口語上不論是大家習慣用什麼樣的方式來自稱這個我們都沒有問題啊台語本來大家都講台語但是台語是什麼的簡稱 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
17826.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
17851.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
臺語是臺灣米蘭語的簡稱可是你今天是把臺灣米蘭語的簡稱之後然後你又在前面再加入臺灣兩個字變成是臺灣台語這樣就變成是臺語它就是一個專有名詞那專有名詞不就代表是說會讓大家就誤認為是說只有臺語代表整個臺灣上面2350萬人所講的語言那這樣是不是就無形當中就把我們的客語就把我們的原住民的語言給忽視了呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
17852.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
17881.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
而且更重要你剛有提到沒有這個意思可是外界就會有這樣的狀況啊所以我們需要多張說明市長那我就請教你剛講的是說這個是我們共同使用語言的狀況我也都是用臺語啊但是我認知的臺語就是臺灣米蘭語然後就是韓國我們所使用的一個範圍嘛那如果要用臺灣台語請教今天有一個外國人來到台灣他想要問欸你們現在講的語言是什麼那我請教臺灣台語的英文要怎麼翻 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
17883.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
17899.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
臺灣台語臺灣台語是的但如果說是你要怎麼解釋呢就台語是一個語言的名稱這個名稱就叫台語就像我們對很多任何一個物品你給它一個名稱以後它就是一個專有名詞 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
17899.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
17927.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
所以它現在還是變成是你會變成是它是英去翻這樣的意思你就是創一個新的詞是的 對不對我們就不用所謂的以前可能會用Taiwanese來代表台語可是在英文稱呼上面其實文化部有客尊一個希望能夠尊重國家語言所以我們在英文名稱上就很清楚的標示就是台語所以這樣子你就是在創另外一個新的名詞但這樣新的名詞是不是就讓外國人有可能誤會 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
17928.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
17950.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
我們臺灣上面這塊土地上面大家講的語言會沒有其他的語言來我再請教一下來我再請教一下我們的客戶會主委主委剛聽這樣子的講法我想雖然你們今天上午都已經講過就互相尊重了但說實在話 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
17953.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
17978.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
因為我的選區不管是淡水、山芝也有很多的客家鄉親甚至之前新北市有差不多兩萬的客家鄉親其實是從淡水這邊來做一個發跡的所以我們也想問如果說今天臺灣台語它這樣確立了那這樣子臺語就變成是一個專有名詞那會無形當中會讓其他的國際友人也會認為是說臺灣這塊土地上面好像沒有其他的語言存在 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
17979.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
17990.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
英語是這樣說的,就屬於維尼語言：主委你是要本席也帶上這個翻譯還是說,我其實是聽不懂客語的,不好意思用國語,用華語 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
17996.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
18017.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
包括客語、原住民語、臺語這個都是國家語言那現在這個書面上呢它是優先建議,它只是建議所以我們在客委會來說並沒有一定要使用這個或那個那就客家人的立場來說稱呼臺語或閩南語都叫做Holo法 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
18021.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
18036.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
所以我們是用我們的主體我們由我們的主體來說他稱我現在講的是說文化部用這樣子的定義以你站在客委會主委的一個角度來講有沒有客家鄉親跟你反映 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
18036.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
18060.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
有 那客家鄉親跟你反映你怎麼做是 客家鄉親那個時候的反映我們建議說那我們再請文化部一起再來開國家語言的會議增加了三場的客語的會議 客家語言的會議所以在這個會議當中大家有充分的在討論當然 那文化部有接受你的建議嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
18062.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
18081.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
應該是這麼說啦我覺得在這個階段其實我們是尊重每一個人的每一個族群的說法那這樣子才有可能展現出我們多元包容的這個特質這個也是台灣很美好很重要的一個特質因為不同嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
18082.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
18100.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
主委就是因為本席尊重多元包容的特質也因此才會覺得說為什麼本來無疑是何處惹塵來突然間文化部要在今年我不知道是不是滿足某些人的政治意識形態這個你也不用回答啦這個你也不用幫忙文化部回答啦但我意思是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
18101.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
18121.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
不知道是滿足某些人的特定政治意識形態：也因此突然間要做這樣的一個改名的動作變成是臺灣台語好像獨尊了之後反而造成我們其他語言的一個部分那當然原住民委員會的主委你有沒有反應我們的族人有沒有跟你講是說如果臺灣台語這樣定下來的話好像會獨尊一方 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
18122.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
18147.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
我不是說都尊重我知道你們今天已經大帽子扣下來我相信你們兩個委員會說實在話本身在中央部會也是比較弱勢的委員會所以你們也許也不敢有意見但我現在問的是你們的族人我現在給你一個機會讓你在國會殿堂上幫你們族人講話 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
18149.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
18178.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
連這樣子都不敢幫族人講話還是表達你們族人的心聲族人聽到說要變成臺灣台語的時候都沒有任何意見族人的心聲是因為我們自己就稱自己是原住民跟我們就尊重臺語他怎麼講就怎麼樣來尊重所以今天講臺灣台語他可能喊瓜了就變成是好像臺灣在臺灣是講台語的那我們原住民的話反而變成是比較沒有被重視到了我們不會有這樣感覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
18179.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
18204.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
就是原住民本來就是就是單獨的是一個原住民那尊重其他的族群啊?對,說實在話本席也有原住民的朋友也有原住民的親戚我覺得在國會殿堂上面還是要幫各族群為什麼要成立客委會為什麼要成立原住民委員會還是要為特定的委員會的人士來做發聲 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
18206.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
18225.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
不是說一個政治意識形態可以把我們台灣變成是一言堂如果說台灣真的變一言堂的話我覺得這樣子會非常可悲台灣的美、台灣的好就是多元、包容、文化、特色而不是政治意識形態掛帥把我們過去認知的全部都一筆抹殺謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
18232.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
18233.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
黃國昌委員邀請原民會曾主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
18258.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
18281.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
委員好曾主委您好行政院院長佐隆泰在總質詢的說我們政府用錢不可以浪費公帑變預算不可以浪費公帑執行預算可不可以浪費公帑可以嗎不能浪費公帑不能浪費公帑嗎 非常好不好意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
18285.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
18292.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
人民會前主委花了145萬的公帑出個人成果專刊60頁都是他個人活動的照片這是一個浪費公帑 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
18303.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
18320.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
跟委員報告齁除了這些照片他還是有一些這個那個時候的一些成果我們你有看過內容嗎我有大概看過他裡面有成果的部分跟園民會自己本身的成果專刊兩者之間的內容你有沒有比較過是有比較過他是他就是這個這裡面有之前園民會的專刊沒有的內容嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
18333.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
18344.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
有嗎?這樣有沒有浪費公帑?有沒有浪費公帑都不敢回答喔?我要給你清楚的表明啊! |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
18356.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
18381.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
這百分之一百是浪費公帑啦拿納稅人的錢做個人自我宣傳可以這樣幹喔我上一次質詢的時候我已經請你們原民會的同仁講清楚喔在預算書裡面編在哪一個向下去支出這筆錢的因為我找不到嘛因為我找不到嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
18382.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
18408.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
他們後來隨便跟我講了一個名目叫做推動原住民族政策法規制度處理族群關係及本會嚴考業務之規劃與執行所需經費向下但問題是這個向下全部喔只有139萬那我就看不懂了啊剛我念了那一長串了這麼多的工作要做 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
18409.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
18435.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
結果編了139萬那這個卻花了145萬出他個人的寫真集不好意思我就直接這樣講出他個人的寫真集那其他的錢從哪裡來我剛講那一長串的向下全部的錢拿來用在這裡都還不夠還要從別的地方挪是不是可以請主委承諾我一個禮拜之內 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
18436.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
18452.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
這個專刊從哪一些向下撥過來的說清楚講明白一個禮拜之內書面回覆因為這個會期是預算會期嘛我看到你們今年的預算書又有我剛剛講的那一長串 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
18456.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
18481.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
文字一模一樣推動原住民族政策法規制度處理族群關係及本會研考業務費用規劃質詢所需經費今年增加了去年是一百三十四萬今年增加到一百六十二萬來 主委今年你們預算書裡面啊剛我念的那一長串的向下的一百六十二萬你會不會拿來出這個不會絕對不會嘛絕對不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
18484.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
18504.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
那奇怪了那你們去年在做這件事情的時候我剛講的那一長串的東西顯然沒有這個業務需求嘛因為所有的錢拿去給主委出個人專刊都不夠了哪有錢做其他的事啊那代表了這個經費不是很需要啊怎麼今年又變了162萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
18506.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
18528.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
我們要做就是整個會裡面不會出個人的,或者是這個就出個人的啊!我不會再出個人的了你不會再出個人的嗎?不會不會好,非常好喔來來,我們再往下看今天喔,司法法制跟內政聯席會啊我們審查先停一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
18531.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
18558.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
奇怪這個是這個是沒有電那個我先跟主委溝通一個問題可能你上任沒多久但我覺得行政跟立法彼此之前我們黨團發文給你所知就請你提供資料我們發文給你所知客客氣氣的問你你去帛琉的行程結果你們發兩張新聞稿回我們黨團 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
18560.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
18589.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
搞到今天我必須要透過臨時提案的方式請你交你的行程出來沒有需要搞成這個樣子吧主委你認不認同認同你回去問一下會裡的人好不好好當初是誰決定發兩張新聞稿給我的好我們是立法委員我用黨團的名義去所知欸結果你發兩份新聞稿給我們今天我本來在考慮是不是要提前責案 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
18590.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
18610.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
我真的在考慮要不要提前責案請主委回去了解清楚啊原民會哪一個同仁對於我發文去所知決定發兩個新聞稿給我把我當成媒體記者一模一樣給我一個書面報告可以嗎?好,可以,好 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
18611.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
18624.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
今天上面在審查你們9月公布替用族群的名單因為有原住民的委員要求有幾職要把他改成無幾職那你照理來講有族群名單這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
18630.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
18653.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
有族群委員這件事情感覺起來是對原住民好啊竟然有原住民的委員提案要從有幾職改成無幾職啊所以這個提案我就非常聚精會神的去看16個16個16個替用委員一年需要多少經費 主委知不知道大概2200萬左右2200萬一個人一年要多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
18661.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
18689.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
他一個月大概是八萬嘛一年大概就是一百萬左右不只啦你把那個細目啊把它全部弄出來啊我算過啦包括一些什麼有的沒有的補貼啦加班費啦所有的東西加起來十六個人兩千兩百萬一個人一年一百三十五萬嘛我一百三十五萬一年一百三十五萬喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
18690.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
18712.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
哇 這個工作即使在公務體系裡面應該也是很好的工作嘛主委我這樣說沒有錯吧是待遇應該是非常好嘛是所以我就很關心嘛阿你們這些聘用委員到底是怎麼選出來的嘛我們先把基本的事實釐清啦這些聘用委員第一個不是選舉出來的對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
18715.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
18743.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
第二、也不是國家考試出來的對不對第三、也不是原民會自己辦的考試出來的對不對我看了這個林聘辦法我看了這個林聘辦法這個條件很寬鬆啦大概只要是熱心族群服務或深愛原住民事務深欲卓著就有資格了這個辦法是你們定的嘛那後面又講喔後面又講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
18746.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
18775.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
委員之臨提必要的時候可以召開審查委員會審議嗎那你在提這些人的時候你有召開審查委員會嗎不是就是我們把所有他們所有可以自己推也可以自己推薦自己也可以團體來推薦沒有關係啦我只問你有召開審查委員會議嗎7月的時候有來做一個審就說一個初審所以沒有我們臺灣是法治國家你認同吧是 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
18775.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
18800.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
那既然是法治國家就要依法行政嘛那既然要依法行政你不是有一個林聘要點嗎林聘要點說必要的時候要開審查會議嘛那我的問題很簡單你有沒有開這個審查會議有還是沒有在七月的時候七月五號的時候有開呢開了多久就是把所有的資料整理一下我是問開了多久我不是問你整理哪些資料開了多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
18802.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
18829.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
那個旁邊的同仁喔請你在旁邊這個會議你有沒有參加差不多是一小時這個會議你有沒有參加我沒有參加但是我是有看這些資料等一下等一下等一下你說這個審查委員會你沒有參加喔我有把資料先看等一下等一下我先評一下這個會議你有沒有參加你有參加還是沒有參加我沒有參加你連這個會議都沒有參加喔但是所有的資料我都看過 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
18831.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
18856.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
哇我的天啊好好好所有的資料都看過嘛那一天審查委員會的時候的會議資料這15個人履歷表有沒有交上來15個人的履歷表有對有交還沒有交全部都有啊 履歷表都有沒有啊16個啊No 沒有我今天上午上面問你們副主委你們副主委跟我說他有參加這個審查會 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
18858.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
18885.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
那我就問他第一個問題審查會有哪些書面資料他講不出來那我就認了一下欸奇怪欸這審查會很重要欸要好好審查嘛一個人一年一百三十五萬欸十五個人審一個小時欸非常神速啊我聽到這個效率我大驚失色啊我就進一步追問那請問有哪些審查資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
18887.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
18914.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
他認在那裡然後我問他說那請問有履歷表嗎他跟我說沒有然後我問他說那有什麼審查資料他說有一份名單他說有一份名單然後上面有這15個人的名字我的老天啊主委你按照這個這個這個林聘要點啊上面的規定所開的審查會議啊連履歷表都沒有啊只有名單啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
18916.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
18941.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
主委你知不知道這件事啊還是你上面有給指令好好審查結果被你指派要審查的人根本在渾水摸魚情況到底是怎麼樣因為我剛才知道原來你沒有參加這個審查會議嗎因為所有他們的這個履歷表就是有投進來的履歷表我都有看過啦奇怪你有看過那些審查委員都沒看所以那個審查會議是在過水嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
18944.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
18962.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
那奇怪 如果不是在過水 主委你可不可以跟大家解釋一下那他們那天開的審查會議 連履歷表都沒有 是在幹什麼因為這是你們副主委當面跟我講的啦你們旁邊那位處長 剛在上面的時候 你也有參與討論嘛你全部都有聽到嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
18964.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
18991.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
他就是這樣跟我講的啊我大驚失色啊我想說哇一年一百三十五萬待遇這麼好的職位在開審查會議的時候一張座只有人命連履歷表都沒有這太憨了不好意思我不應該用那個不好意思我不太確定你是不是可以聽得懂臺灣台語所以我換另外一個話講就是說你會不會覺得太扯了 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
18992.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
19019.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
你以主委的高度告訴全體國人你會不會覺得太扯了因為這幾個人的這個履歷表我都有看過他們就是說整個整理起來這些人全部都是你挑的嗎不是我不是我挑的不是我全部不是我挑的不是你挑那是誰挑的就是我這個還要提報上去報上去這個是業長我先提一下這15個人裡面有沒有不是你提報的人有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
19022.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
19033.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
這裡面有不是你提報的人喔來來來你跟大家講一下這15個委員有哪些不是你提報的人那等於是什麼行政院院長跳過你他自己選喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
19034.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
19051.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
是嗎因為我們提報不會說一個組如果說一個組如果很多就是很多人他們的這個推薦的幾件的人很多那我們就不會只有提報一個人對啦所以這裡面是不是都在你的提報名單裡還是裡面有人不是你提報的 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
19053.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
19082.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
有人不是我提報的那個會後再請主委跟大家用書面回覆我這15個人裡面有哪些不在你的提報名單上這樣可以嗎可以一個禮拜之內交上來可以嗎好這個事情為什麼重要因為原民會組織法怎麼規定的原民會組織法是要由主委提報給行政院院長任命那你今天解開大家的疑惑啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
19083.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
19111.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
原來裡面有委員不是你主委提報的欸等於是行政院院長跳過你欸塞他自己想要的人欸行政院院長可以幹這種事喔這個是嚴重喔請你回去徹查裡面有哪些人不是你提報的結果竟然是我們行政院院長任命的記得喔一個禮拜之內喔你在國會殿堂說裡面有人不是你提報的嘛好來我們來進一步看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
19112.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
19132.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
這裡面的人有立委的助理有立委的執行長還有在幫民進黨一個特定的村在當聯絡人的充滿了一片綠油油、愁容的色彩還有參選、落選的那你這好康啊人是怎麼選的 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
19138.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
19158.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
喂!這好康啊!各位委員報告,這個 嚴明會成立28年以來本來就有這樣的一個這個族群委員一直都是這樣一直都是拿來酬庸的一直都是拿來養莊養角的,是嗎?老今天齁,我不跟你談藍綠啦國民黨執政幹這種事情我照樣批判啦民進黨執政幹這種事情主委你認同嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
19167.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
19193.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
你認同嗎?你以主委的高度你認同嗎?你認不認同?你也不認同嗎?好!好好的回去檢討這個制度你作為原民會的主委你今天有勇氣在國會殿堂裡面拉出你的高度現任的原民會主委也不認同我們的原民會聘用委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
19195.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
19223.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
給民進黨政府拿來這樣酬庸之用你這句話講得好有道德勇氣我給你一個讚這些人到底是怎麼選出來的我接下來一定會往下追查我一定會要行政院院長卓榮泰給大家一個交代時間的關係我雖然後面沒委員但我也不好意思耽誤所有的官員陪我在這邊繼續問你徐委員召委的時間我也要尊重好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
19228.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
19247.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
謝謝黃國昌委員登記發言的委員除不在場者其餘均已發言完畢,詢答結束委員高金素梅、呂玉玲、蘇清泉、丁學忠、邱振軍所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
19249.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
19274.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
書面質詢和未及答覆部分．請相關單位於一週內．以書面答覆並複製本會最後主席再次強調．請各列席單位書面報告．應確實依開會通知單．所定送達時間準時送達．並請準備口頭以及書面報告各位列席單位大家辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
19276.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
19279.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
本日會議到此結束 現在散會 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-10-09T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第2會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、邀請客家委員會主任委員、原住民族委員會主任委員、文化部次長、教育部，就「臺灣台語 」名詞是否符合「國家語言」定義？ 是否侵犯台灣其他語言併存地位？及修正「臺灣台語」政策進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:36 - 13:54:00 |
| IVOD_ID |
16160 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16160 |
| 日期 |
2024-10-09 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-2-15-4 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期內政委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-10-09T08:31:36+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-10-09T13:54:00+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |