| IVOD_ID |
161564 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161564 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
17 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-19T12:17:25+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-19T12:35:28+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:18:03 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ecb6f54fb5d604f060df51bc086ce8c4239b9191e0d12eea46e8f406cf3b0734ee4908f1f42fde8f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王鴻薇 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:17:25 - 12:35:28 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員、內政部警政署署長、中央選舉委員會、數位發展部、個人資料保護委員會籌備處及中華電信股份有限公司率所屬相關單位列席就「民眾反應收到罷免連署簡訊，顯非商業廣告目的利用，質疑個資洩漏而侵害人民權益」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【5月19日及21日兩天一次會】） |
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好謝謝主席我請司法院副秘書長 麻煩副秘書長 法務部政部長 政部長NCC主委 NCC主委代理主委 代理主委還有中華電信副總好 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
35.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
54.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
其實今天我們主要是談在這個簡訊就是霸團組織顯然是已經很精準的針對了地區發了這個相關的簡訊那這個簡訊到底有沒有違反相關的個資法那麼根據自由時報的報導 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
56.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
84.387 |
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自由時報報導引述司法院說有違法可以提起救濟那司法院說近期各地進行的公職人員罷免案目前尚處於罷免選罷法規定的提議或連署間段民眾收到罷免連署簡訊可能涉及違反各自法那我想請問一下我們的副秘書長請問一下到底有沒有違反各自法 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
94.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
107.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
請說這個部分我們剛剛在報告中有說就是還是要看到看他的整個那個程序因為司法這個最後事實上是在那個尾端所以要看那個個案所呈現的這些狀況才能夠做就按照這個我這個解訊內容給你看啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
108.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
136.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
好 給你看 因為它這個是有它有鎖定區域嘛它不會到台北來讓我去憑證去去簽聯署書啊它也不會讓我去新店簽聯署書啊那它的發送是有鎖定在它的選區這樣有沒有違反各自法那個報告委員 這剛才不管是哪一端 但是最後這個行為有沒有違反各自法 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
138.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
141.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
各自有被受到保護嗎?那自由時報是假新聞嗎?他說霸團簡訊可能涉嫌違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
160.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
170.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
所以你現在不敢講了好 你不敢講了 請問一下那個 法務部正部長像這個行為有沒有違反各自法 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
172.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
193.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
這個行為有沒有 這要做個案的認定那是個資法有沒有 那個處罰是要違反那個第六條還有第十五條 第十六條 第十九跟第二十條就是說對違反那個個資的 因為個資的收集處理利用都有法定的一個嚴格的標準嘛那你違反的話 這個如果說有人違反的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
196.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
200.512 |
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這個我的意思就是說他可以很精準的在這個區域裡面發送給這個區域的 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
205.082 |
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229.281 |
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這個就是簡訊發送給這個區域的受眾那這沒有各自外洩的問題嗎就是我們就看個人資料的定義個人資料保護法上的個人資料的定義好部長我要問那個自然人還有一些什麼呢比如說出生年日身分證號碼電話號碼等等可以直接間接識別該個人的資料也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
230.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
242.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
如果單純的一個電話號碼我們也沒辦法知道這個是誰的如果說那個簡訊說麻煩你來支持這樣才有違反個資法這個就是很明確的個人資料如果他只有一個單純電話沒辦法去辨識這到底是誰的電話無法辨識這個要往前無法辨識無法辨識他有沒有違反個資可能在這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
257.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
276.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
可能這要再往前去推是不是有沒有提供那部長我請問一下像這個案例因為民眾都很緊張那我們會針對這有沒有違反各司法來做調查嗎只要有人來告訴告發那個訴訟人員228告訴我們就來查到底有沒有違反各司法 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
276.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
286.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
好 那我想請問一下 因為像我是被罷免人 我們很多委員是被罷免人那 假使被罷免人 這是罷團發送的嘛那假使被罷免人 針對這個區域 也發送這樣的簡訊就說 哎呀 拜託 你要出來投票 要投不同意罷免 請問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
299.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
308.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
要不要辦所以我有很擔心的事啊因為現在都是辦藍不辦綠嘛所以我們擔心的是罷團這樣子都沒問題司法院也說看個案然後法務部也說看個案然後等到呢等到被罷免人也同樣的狀況也同樣的去買簡訊的時候那可能這不一樣嘛這不是說讓你去連署嘛就是拜託你投票啊請你投票不同意罷免啊哇 就有事了 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
328.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
329.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
因為你們這雙標是很厲害的啊這個如果各支法如果說這個街道檢修各支法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
336.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
358.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
的問題的話 那是屬於接到簡訊的人接到簡訊的人 他是被害人嘛對 民眾就告發啦民眾怎麼沒有告發咧你看他還提供簡訊給大家 對不對看看有沒有成立 他怎麼樣的一個到底是怎麼個人資料的外洩的一個問題所以啊 部長 會不會雙標啊不會雙標啦 這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
362.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
373.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這個辦案本來就是依照證據來認定犯罪事實沒有證據因為你們雙標很厲害啊沒有沒有 這個委員我們不能夠這樣直接就給他貼這個雙標這個我們要維持一個純淨的一個辦案空間有證據就辦嘛 那我們會辦與不辦之間在於你們嘛來 那個我想請問一下NCC因為有關於簡訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
387.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
413.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
集中在特殊條件這個是在這個簡訊這些商業行為非常普遍比如說因為其實一般商業用的更廣啊比如說有些建商我做一個建案我就是要有些特殊的有些特殊我就是鎖定在這個區域的或者是呢比如說一些投資理財的當然投資理財 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
416.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
440.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
詐騙簡訊最多嘛所以呢現在我知道你們有一個防止詐騙有關於這些簡訊就是這些電信資料的管理的指引嘛有沒有有嘛對不對那這個這個當然它原來的出發點是防止詐騙因為詐騙行為太多所以你們這個指引請問一下上路了沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
442.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
466.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
112年就上路了持續在修正當中商業簡訊如果有網址連結有電話號碼還有短碼部分我們都會來封阻除非他經過驗證符合正當實驗會第100單請問一下在指引裡面他如果去限定他的特殊條件我剛講他的特殊條件別說他必須我限定在桃園 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
468.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
495.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
地區我限定在台北市或台北市的哪幾個區域或者我限定在他比如說他有過投資行為類似這種商業化的這種簡訊請問一下如果在這些的就是販賣簡訊院就是幫企業去那個投放這簡訊這個在不在你們指引的這個管理的範圍裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
496.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
516.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
不在但是在原來的我們地形化區也有要求還有各自法本身也有要求它是你要提供LBS服務必須要用戶同意才可以提供才可以提供對就是經過合法或使用者同意那我請問一下因為這個事件呢今天有那個什麼請問一下你們說呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
520.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
547.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
因為調查了解三家行動通信業者都沒有提供簡訊發送門號清單及基地台區域廣播技術LBS給簡訊代發業者就是說我們的三大電信業者都沒有提供那我請問一下這些簡訊代發業者的資料拿來的那就要問簡訊代發業者手上的資料其他公司是如何提供資料給他如何他可以把它歸類對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
548.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
559.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那就請教公司的資訊來源就不知道怎麼來源來來來 我請中華電信喔因為他們是你的客戶嘛來是 林副總是 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
561.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
584.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
因為你們是上游嘛中游就是這些簡訊代發業者所以你們沒有給他們他們資料哪來的怎麼生出來的其實他們的資料我們大概無從去了解無從要求無從理解不知道他怎麼來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
585.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
606.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
他自己可以生成出來跟委員報告每一家公司他在經營相關的業務都有他的神通廣大他應該都要依照各自保護法來做相關的我就是問你嘛既然他是你的客戶你沒有給他這個資料那他資料哪來的怎麼從天上掉下來還是從地底下竄上來 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
609.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
618.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
哪來的 不知道電信公司在這個案裡面就是純粹的網路通訊傳送的這個角色都不知道好 那請問一下 NCC 主管機關請問一下 按照我們的電信業者說我們要給他們但是簡訊代發業者卻有這些資料你們查過沒 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
630.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
658.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我們的職權範圍 措用法的職權範圍內就是電信業者這部分我們調查過兩次行政調查那簡單再跟委員回報 剛剛說有兩個層次 第一個層次是用戶同意LPS 第二個層次是A傳給B傳給C C是電信公司最後傳給使用者 B是簡訊大發業者A最上一端的行銷公司 他為什麼會有資料要由這個行銷公司來說明 他要負這個法律責任 他這要怎麼取得是合法還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
659.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
685.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那所以這個調查責任是不是在NCC不是不在NCC在哪裡啊在它對應的相關的主管機關它對應主管機關是什麼它是行銷公司目前初步應該是經濟部經濟部齁經濟部應該包商包海齁那因為它違法個資法的問題最近法務部大量在查違反個資法的問題啊那所以請問一下部長法務部部長這該不該你們查 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
689.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
703.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
反正那個有涉及到犯罪的 有經過告訴高發等等的 那當然我們會啟動調查那不管 不用說什麼個資啦 如果說還有什麼其他的犯罪 包括像這種可能涉及到法案秘密的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
705.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
706.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
過去有查過嗎這個我沒有統計的資料怎麼會沒有查過這麼多詐騙很多詐騙就是透過簡訊的詐騙我剛剛講說簡訊簡訊的問題我剛剛講說簡訊這些所發的簡訊有 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
727.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
741.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
被設定特殊條件並不是在選舉啊其實過去選舉我直接說我們也常常有很多的政治人物啊就是到了中秋節啊過年啊他也會發送簡訊嘛給你拜年啊什麼之類的 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
742.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
762.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那在一般的商業行為裡面也非常多那最氾濫的確實就是詐騙因為最害怕的就是詐騙嘛所以照理說你們應該早就針對這一些因為防詐騙早就應該啟動相關的調查怎麼會到現在都告訴我好像沒有人在管啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
763.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
765.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
而且你不知道他的資料哪裡來的那部長根據你們過去的調查因為我剛剛講說詐騙最多根據你們過去的調查這些典訊代發業者如果有這些特殊條件他的資料哪裡來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
787.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
792.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
因為NC說他只查電訊業者電訊業者說我們沒有啊我們沒有提供啊所以你都不知道犯罪集團的問題當他變成詐騙詐騙行為這麼多的時候他已經不是個案他變通案啊請問他資料哪裡來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
804.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
809.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
這個要每個犯罪的你也不知道這個每個犯罪類型疑問都三不知我不是疑問三不知這個我沒辦法跟你講說到底是哪個案件是從哪裡來的所以這個有些是有些廣告頭髮商有些是脫波的人是給的嘛那有些是要怎麼收集的就是最原始的那個那個前端的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
824.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
834.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
是誰收集處理他把這些賣掉所以呢我在這邊不要為了cover這件事情來部長不要著急喔我要講的就是說不要為了cover這件事情這個事實上在簡訊就是這些商業簡訊裡面已經非常慣常慣常的這些資料就是他常常是用特殊因為他要精準行銷嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
851.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
856.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
因為它不能海量發送 海量發送實在太貴了它要精準行銷所以這個照理講 尤其我們詐騙這麼多你們早就應該去整理出它的樣態啊 怎麼到現在什麼都不知道好 我這邊只有兩個要求第一個要求 像這樣子如果你們確定它是有違反各司法之嫌那你們該調查就要調查不要為了去cover哪些集團 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
880.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
883.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
第二個 請你不要辦藍不辦綠不要辦藍不辦綠我們同樣的同樣到時候 罷團可以用被罷免的人也同樣可以用 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
897.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
920.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
是不是 應該是這樣的一個標準所以我要講的就是說該調查要調查第二個 在調查的時候就請你不要再雙標了我知道你今天下午要開一個記者會我都不曉得你們到底要有什麼樣的資訊記者會是要告訴大家我們這一年司法來的豐功偉業就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
921.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
925.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
關了一個在野黨的主席對不對然後抄了八個在野黨的黨部關了多少的人家黨部的主委逃掉多少的經濟的重要的這些經濟犯我不曉得你今天下午是不是要公布這些啦當民意對於司法的公信力滿意度這麼低的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
949.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
964.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
請你們拿出真正的民眾關心的這個證物而不是在繼續的為政治服務我不是關心幾個案件我們是關心所有的被害人我不是關心幾個案件我們關心的可多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
964.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
969.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
所以剛才因為有限時間關係像剛剛羅志強委員所提的反正我們呢我們黨團也已經提出相關的這個法案的修正也希望法務部能夠採納能夠回應13萬多人在網路上大家的一個期待這個情況我相信這部分我們就已經在修法了我們會更者的情況能夠更加保護我們的這些的 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
991.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1019.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
兒少 我們絕對不能允許這些的剛才那個主席有跟我們講 我們那個包括是不是真的要殺人 或者是一個致死的是不是在一個家庭我們都在研究如果0月7歲以下0月7歲以下兒童致死是不是應該可以處以死刑 或者無期徒刑因為剛才有講喔你淫虐這麼小的小孩你就知道一定對他造成非常大的傷害委員 我的愛心 我對同情 我絕對不會輸給你的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1022.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1043.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
我們今天在講法耶你不是在跟我選舉啊這個不是部長你不需要這麼多的政治語言這不是政治語言因為對這些兒童我們真的是天理這些的殘害真是天理燃容所以 淩孽幼童就是我說七歲以下七歲以下的淩孽幼童 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1045.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1055.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
這個其實不是叫過失啊這就是故意了嘛 這個沒有過失啊 這個絕對不是故意的喔好 所以我們 因為我們這個 可能委員不知道那個起訴的法條他會召開公聽會 排公聽會到時候也會審查相關法案希望法務部拿出最大最大的誠意的支持這個委員妳放心 這部分我們會用 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1067.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1073.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
以最周全的保護的一個方式我想這個是回憶名義啦我們一定會回憶名義這個請委員放心那我想這個對兒童少年的一個保護我們一定要不遺餘力那我們也謝謝委員帶他一起來來推動好謝謝 |