| IVOD_ID |
16155 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16155 |
| 日期 |
2024-10-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
黨團協商-2024100144 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
立法院朝野黨團協商 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
黨團協商 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院朝野黨團協商 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-10-08T10:00:00+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-10-08T11:35:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
01:35:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| video_url |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
2088.885 |
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2109.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
不好意思我們是不是在等五分鐘因為據瞭解國民黨黨團的成員也願意出席那如果五分鐘過後他們現在大概有記者會那結束之後如果時間太久我們就直接開始請大家再稍待五分鐘如果能夠三黨都到齊了是最好不過的謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
2418.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
2421.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
民眾黨團的歷史和政治糾葛．實現了國際社會的歷史和政治糾葛．實現了國際社會的歷史和政治糾葛 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
2444.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
2467.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
還有范雲我們現在是co-chair那民眾黨這邊就是吳春城委員那國民黨這個部分是黃元偉已經簽到了他當然有事先離開那可能羅志強委員稍後也會進來那在行政官員的部分我介紹一下今天有出席的這個行政官員第一位是 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
2471.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
2478.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
行政院外交國防法務處處長 顏慧欣行政院經貿談判辦公室副總談判代表 顏慧欣行政院經貿談判辦公室談判代表 劉祺進 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
2494.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
2496.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
衛生部國會市科長﹐廖文安科長﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2526.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2546.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
入委會綜合規劃處處長魯仲尼處長內政部警政署刑事警察局副局長林信雄副局長內政部警政署國際科研究員廖哲斌研究員 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2548.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2573.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
法務部國際及兩岸法律司檢察官 廖先志檢察官衛福部國際合作組參事監主任施金水交通部民用航空局副局長林俊良交通部航政司檢任記政楊博文經濟部國際貿易署副署長胡啟娟副署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2577.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2597.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
好謝謝那接下來就是我們的委員現在目前就是在場有六位委員好那我們今天協商的主題是因為民眾黨團針對近日澳洲及荷蘭他們等國會的相關的他的國會近日他們相繼以 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2598.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2608.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
今年7月IPEC組織的這個決議範本通過了聯大2758號決議文不涉台這樣的動議那民眾黨團希望能夠在院會做成決議重申我國認為聯大的2758號決議文不涉台的立場那是在國會外交上的一個重大突破那我們也非常感謝這麼多友台這個國家他們在這時釋出的善意但是我們自己的努力是 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2627.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2654.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
才是關鍵的這些努力也非常重要所以我們今天這個我看我跟在座的范雲立委我們是同為IPAC的co-chair那我們也都明白這些memberIPAC這些member他們也都期待我們自己別人伸出了善意那我們自己是不是應該有一些具體的回應跟作為那就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2655.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2674.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
所以民眾黨團的提案除了2758決議文的一個正確解讀之外那當然我們也希望能夠有機會邀請行政院長到立法院來跟我們報告台灣參與國際組織的目前的一些工作進度那因為這是本黨團的提案我是不是先請我們本黨的幹事長吳春成委員先發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2681.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2686.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
主席、各位幹事長、各位委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2693.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2715.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
今天就是我們台灣民眾黨的一個提議建請這個本院來做這個決議來做這個決議那這個決議我是不是還是念一下因為這是我代表台灣民眾黨來然後希望大家可以有共同的一個意見針對這個台灣主權然後現在聯合國的這些問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2719.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2742.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那大家有點共識那民眾黨的建議是我念一下兩岸之間的歷史和政治的糾葛．由來已久。中華民國在台灣經歷民主化的洗禮．實現了主權在民之原則．台灣的民主自由更獲得國際社會的肯認。 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2743.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2744.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
參與的空間．台灣人民亦應享有與他國國民．相同之國際參與的權利。 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2767.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2771.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
今年7月對中政策跨國議會聯盟在臺北召開的大會通過決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2780.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2802.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
1971年的聯合國第二七五八號決議處理的是中華人民共和國的外交地位並沒有裁定中華人民共和國擁有對台灣的主權也沒有對台灣未來參與聯合國或其他國際組織做出任何的認定 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2804.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2809.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
隨後澳大利亞及荷蘭國會相繼IPEC決議為範本．通過了聯大2758號決議．並不涉台之動議 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2816.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2835.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
這是我國國會外交上的重大突破我們樂見並感謝世界各國對台灣的支持我們也認知我國政府自身的努力才是真正的關鍵因此在此基礎上立法院要求行政部門一 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2837.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2849.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
積極地爭取有意義地參與各種國際組織．打開中華民國台灣之國際參與空間。在本會期．邀請行政院院長．針對台灣參與聯合國 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2852.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2880.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
世界衛生組織．國際民航組織．國際刑警組織．跨太平洋夥伴全面進步協定．等工作進度．在立法院進行專案的報告。那以上是台灣民眾黨的一個提案提出來今天做政黨協商是否有當敬請公決謝謝吳淳賢委員我先確認一下就是已經簽到的黃人委員有沒有書面資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2882.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2883.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
民眾黨主持的學生會議。 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2904.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2909.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
現在我們面對的情況大家就知道民進黨最早有個版本民眾黨有個版本針對2758決議各國的支持國民黨有個版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2918.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2940.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那當然就是說以我個人的解讀覺得國民黨版本是差異最大的那差異最大怎麼講就是我也並沒有並不代表說民眾黨跟民進黨版本很接近而是說國民黨的版本是偏離這一波國際上那在IPAD所發動的就是希望他的會員能夠在各國議會通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2944.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2968.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
支持台灣的決議：跟聯合國二七五八有關的決議偏離最遠的以我個人的看法我們民進黨的版本是最接近的那回來講一下我想因為可能大家對於這個iPad所在今年7月30號那除了我跟陳昭之委員共同被接受成為口雀而共同主席之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2968.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2988.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那在台灣的這個大會就是7月30號通過的這個model resolution到底內容有幾個部分那如果我們依照IPAD的決議理論上應該是我跟陳昭德委員要提出一個幾乎非常接近的這個決議那他到底是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2989.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
3006.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
他基本上有三個部分那第一個部分主要是在講說回顧2758號決議只有處理PRC因為中國跟PRC跟ROC太複雜我們就用英文講喔PRC是China在UN的唯一的正當代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
3007.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
3029.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那裡面有四個部分第一並未提及台灣第二並未處理台灣的政治地位第三並未建立PRC對台灣的主權第四台灣及台灣人民在對台灣及台灣人民在UN的參與是緘默的這是第一個部分回顧2758號決議文到底當時是在處理什麼第二個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
3030.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
3049.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
表達非常遺憾的兩點。第一點,PRC的代表持續扭曲2758決議文．用它來支持一中原則。第二點,PRC的代表扭曲歷史文件．將台灣改為中國之一省台灣。這是對PRC |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
3051.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
3068.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
：扭曲2758號決議文的遺憾：跟他們在國際做了事。第三點就是未來的解方要解決什麼?四個部分。第一,2758號決議並未建立國際法的一中原則,主要在處理PRC在UN代表China。 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
3068.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
3093.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
第二點沒有任何的法律阻止台灣在國際組織的參與第三點2758號決議文沒有涉及任何主權國家如何處理與台灣的關係第四點聯合國缺乏2350萬台灣人的有效參與這件事必須緊急被修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
3093.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
3115.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
所以是有這三個部分那回來看這三個部分是不是民進黨版本的最接近我個人的看法是這樣那國民黨的非常的偏離那剛剛為什麼我們要講台灣PRC那其實就是你都講中國是非常困擾的那我想這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
3116.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
3120.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
大家都知道當時二七五八號決議文只有講將蓋世 即是說蔣介石政權所以我希望那第一個國民黨能夠回到就是國際 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
3131.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
3147.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
現在支持台灣的這個民主浪潮那既然要處理2758號就已經有這麼多的國家這麼努力的在他們的國會就是動員然後一起來通過而且用非常高的比數那今天國民黨沒有任何一個代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
3147.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
3148.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
民眾黨的代表：民進黨的代表： |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
3167.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
3185.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
提案我覺得非常接近這個IPAD的部分就是因為我們最後一段是回到他的緊急的呼籲聯合國的這個部分因為他前面這麼的長不需要完全提及至少我們看到已經通過的荷蘭跟澳洲他的比較簡短版本那我希望民眾黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
3187.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
3216.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
能夠回到ipad這個model resolution那我也跟大家講一下那其實ipad有希望我跟招資委員來提案那我嘗試弄了一個整合的版本那民進黨這裡是非常自由的委員要提案我們邱瑩委員也有一個提案可是民眾黨方面好像沒有這個自由度那我的了解就是那個你們的總召好像很反對那當然實情是如何我沒有辦法具體的確認 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
3217.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
3239.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
確定我還是希望回到iPad的Model Revolution然後國民黨你的版本這麼的偏離是不是能夠回到世界民主國家如何的努力在議會裡面支持台灣的主要的精神跟主要的一個事實以上我就先發言到這,謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
3242.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
3267.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那感謝范議員就是還原當日IPEC決議的主要的精神跟內容我想其實兩個黨的差距沒有很大只是進一步的論述把那個所謂不涉台的部分再釐清得更清楚那我們現在歡迎國民黨葉元之委員參與今天的會議謝謝你那您是要先發言還是我繼續讓好那我就讓民進黨成員 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
3267.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
3290.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
是,我也覺得說李孟浩是不是因為我們民眾黨已經發言這是我們的提案學商沒關係,好,謝謝葉委員那就沈博洋委員就麻煩你第二個對他說沒關係,他說OK好,好 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
3296.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
3323.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我簡短講就好因為我們畢竟我們今天來的人比較多那我講兩件事情第一件事情就是因為各黨團的版本還有差異所以我們當然還是希望院長能夠直接來做這個整個三個的協商我覺得這是第一個那但是因為現在院長還沒招來協商所以我們就深入這個細節那因為民進黨跟民眾黨的版本稍微比較像那國民黨的版本如果民進黨的版本在這裡民眾黨大概在這裡國民黨大概在窗戶外面所以就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
3323.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
3345.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那個版本差距實在太大所以我覺得院長協商可能會蠻重要的但是我覺得2758它有一個重點從頭到尾2758它就是在譴責中國扭曲2758這件事所以其實全世界好像荷蘭、意大利、澳洲、美國他們聲明其實都很簡單他們就一句話他們在譴責中國就譴責中國在曲解就那麼簡單 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
3345.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
3374.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
所以如果說我們要接下這個球其實我們只要發一個簡單的聲明說我們也跟著世界各國譴責其實就一句話就可以結束當然我們可以把它寫得稍微比較完整一點因為畢竟是跟台灣有關所以我們可以把立場講得更清楚所以我在這邊針對民眾黨的版本我先說我對民眾黨版本的內容我沒有什麼太大的意見因為內容說這個2758號講了什麼我們希望我們的外交部能夠努力希望能夠打開國際空間這完全是正確的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
3375 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
3401.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
所以我現在是要把它擺在一個脈絡下就是國際情勢因為國際上現在每一個人都是在跟你講說譴責中國這一個、譴責中國、譴責中國但如果我們沒有把譴責中國這一個強調放在這個裡面這會變成那個那天我看樂樂法律有講一個比喻就是說就像我們現在大家在海灘上面結果有鯊魚來了現在每一個人都發聲就說有鯊魚來了、有鯊魚來了結果呢我們現在有結果我們自己出了一個版本說天氣那麼熱有沒有塗防曬油 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
3402.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
3426.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
那天氣熱要塗防曬油是完全正確的事情那理論上我們應該先把鯊魚擊退之後然後我們在這個沙灘上生存我們需要塗防曬油所以那國民黨的版本就更國民黨的版本就有點像是有鯊魚來了但我們也是鯊魚大概是這種感覺所以我覺得在這幾個主要的方向上如果不同的話我們很難達到一個共同的決議那我們民建黨的版本的第一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
3427.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
3446.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
第二點其實這兩個都是在堅決然後呢也是在跟世界各國站在一起說大家都說中國在扭曲2758我們也認為中國在扭曲2758其實一句話我覺得應該就可以結束那如果能夠把這個整合進去然後後面再去提到說所以我們的外交部應該做好什麼準備這聽起來我覺得就蠻合理的所以這大概是我的意見謝謝謝謝謝謝洪委員我知道您加了一個重點就是對於中國的我看好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
3457.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3469.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
你也提到剛剛說可能最後是院長先生但是我覺得我們今天的會議還是有意義的大家就是先做一個初步寫照歡迎羅志強委員出席今天的會議那因為剛剛民進黨委員已經發言了那已經有這個兩位民進黨的委員發言是不是羅委員還是葉委員你們要我們來交錯發言那羅委員請 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3482.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3496.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
抱歉因為前面有行程所以我不太確定前面講了什麼但我想說今天就是針對我們大家朝野一起來努力來開拓我們中華民國的外交空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3498.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3523.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
我覺得國民黨都非常樂觀其成更何況我們親愛的賴清德總統都已經願意拋棄過去的台獨神主牌直接就說中華民國是祖國這一點我們真的要給他掌聲所以我覺得將來尤其我們之前像在立法院我們朝野都共同對2758決議有很多的意見對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3526.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3531.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
那我覺得經過賴清德總統這麼所謂的提壺灌頂的大指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3532.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3554.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
那我們的意見就統一啦民進黨的提案跟國民黨可以完全一致這樣子國民黨提案就交給民進黨來提案我們也同意你們就把國民黨提案直接簽字至於賴慶哲總統的一個意見第一個就是什麼呢以中華民國為主體性我們重返聯合國打破2758的那個架構 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3556.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3561.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
一切所有問題就完全完美的解決了那另外賴清哲總統既然這麼愛中華民國那我覺得也給賴清哲總統我們有一個更好的一個實際上的一個祈勉就是我們在國民黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3572.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3575.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
我們在這個立法院關於2758決議的提案當中也很清楚的也很誠懇的來給賴清德總統兩個其免第一個就是賴總統既然這麼希望為中華民國來爭取國際空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3588.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3613.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
那麼就不要害怕2758決議學學馬英九總統突破2758決議的框架重返世界衛生大會跟重返國際民航組織那其實總統我相信一定非常勇敢也有勇氣也有擔當也有胸襟也有格局會做出保證在他這個任期之內就能夠讓中華民國重返這個世界衛生大會跟國際民航組織 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3616.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3635.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
如果馬總統的成績做不到,我建議可以更突破馬總統就直接按照民進黨現在這麼豐碩的外交成績和成果趕快聯合國所有成員國共同提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3636.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3655.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
打破2758決議：讓中華民國能夠重回國際組織那這樣子更是治本的做法而且這個做法就超越馬英九了所以請賴總統也承諾保證我賴清德非常的英明神武我一定可以在我卸任之前能夠把這個台灣把我們中華民國能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3660.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3677.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
成功的聯合國的成員國．打破2758的決議框架所以我真的樂觀期待我們擁戴中華民國為祖國的賴清德總統那能夠為我們中華民國的外交開創新業跟空間謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3680.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3695.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
謝謝羅委員您的重點還是其實大家還是有共同點就是讓我們國家能夠重回一個國際組織您強調的是用中華民國的這樣子一個名義重返聯合國那現在我們交錯來發言吳斯堯委員他舉手了 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3701.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3722.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
謝謝民眾黨陳昭智委員今天召開這個協商那我想對於我們要在立法院提出一個聯合的朝野共同聲明我想各黨依提案協商這就是一個好的開始那這也是回到我上一次坐在這裡提案希望立法院朝野來促成聯合聲明那一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3725.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3725.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
政治糾葛．的立法院黨團． |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3741.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3747.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
那面對2758號那不涉台要能夠撥亂反正啊我想IPAC他們有了一個剛剛范雲委員所為大家簡報的一個model resolution就是一個公版 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3756.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3775.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那這是讓IPAC的成員國回到該國的國會那也在國會裡頭促成跨黨派的國會議員的聯合主張所以第一他是有一個model一個公版一個參照也就是對於二七五八決議要重新正確的解讀那當然也包括清楚的說明在這個聲明當中提到過去中國扭曲的幾點錯誤 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3786.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3803.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
這些謬誤之處都點出來所以當台灣要回應台灣作為當事者台灣一定要有行動那我們對於這個國際的挺台抗中我們不能夠以讀不回 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3804.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3824.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
但是我們也不能以獨亂回所以我們今天朝野的責任在這裡我們要縱整出大家認同的而且符合台灣主流民意符合國際社會的期待也符合正確的歷史的認知的這些要項我們要以獨勝回 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3828.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3853.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
所以以獨勝回這件事情．是台灣中華民國立法院．的朝野委員共同的責任。我們也看到．不管是IPAC的共同主席．或者包括葛萊儀．這台灣長期瞭解台灣關係．兩岸關係的國際學者．也都不斷的提醒．台灣千萬不能以獨亂回的重要性．因為這會給國際社會錯誤的訊號 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3858.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3876.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
所以我們要如何有一個好的 完整的國會聯合聲明呢我想他應當有三個部分就是配合著剛剛IPAC的Model Resolution裡頭第一個一個國際脈絡歷史史實的背景說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3877.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3894.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
第二部分是針對聯合國2758號不涉台的正確解讀在台灣的觀點我們還是要重申那第三個就是我們的主張而台灣國會的聲明跟主張勢必是對國際發聲而對國際發聲的對象包括對中國 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3900.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3912.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
不要再用一中原則來錯誤捆綁2758號不涉台的決議所以對中國的立場是我們聯合聲明的一部分第二個就是對於國際的聲明我們呼籲聯合國的成員也呼籲聯合國一起來讓2758號決議撥亂反正所以對於國際的訊號對國際的發聲會是我們國會的聯合聲明的 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3929.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3937.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
重中之重當然民眾黨的版本裡頭有提到對內對台灣政府自己的自我要求那我覺得當然我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3940.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3962.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
立法監督行政也不是不能夠提出這個部分所以在聯合聲明的我說的第三部分他必須是對中國對國際對聯合國以及當然也可以對台灣自己國家的政府的要求所以有三大部分就應當來好好來看看我們現在三黨的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3962.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3963.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
社會的質疑的聲音： |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3990.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
4006.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
國民黨如剛剛羅志強委員的發言他非常的緬懷馬英九前總統沒有關係他是您的前老闆沒有問題然後呢國民黨的版本呢居然又要回到半世紀前的1972年國民黨的版本是要整個否定2758號決議文 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
4012.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
4038.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
所以這個跨越時空做上時空機的這種全盤否定2758號決議的不只跟IPAC的這個共同的理解跟做法是不同的也會造成我們剛剛說的你對國際社會釋放了什麼樣子的訊號我們不能以讀亂回所以要再次重申我們希望說既然是立法院的聯合聲明今天民進黨團我們非常用心誠懇的我們來了五位 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
4042.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
4043.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
4062.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
4070.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
接受：那勢必還是要讓韓國瑜院長主持的朝野協商。所以今天就內容上就是民眾黨的版本是對內訴求比較多那如果可以的話應當是我剛講對中國的訴求跟對聯合國的呼籲這個部分是民進黨版本一個很重要的精神 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
4082.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
4102.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
但是大方向上對於歷史的事實：對於2758號決議文不涉台的這些解釋跟導正那我想民進黨版本跟民眾黨版本是比較接近那對國民黨的版本要回到1972年以前的歷史時空我想這個是讓大家覺得是牛頭不對馬嘴 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
4104.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
4129.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
這個也實在我擔心這樣子的說法確實會釋放了一個錯誤的訊號給國際社會那也還是國民黨的委員們剛剛羅志強委員講了好多好多的賴清德我們今天是在國會回到主題我們在講的是2758號不設台的朝野共同的聯合聲明那一直講賴清德 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
4130.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
4151.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
就好奇怪講賴清德你講馬英九就算了沒有關係你喜歡講馬英九然後講了賴清德總統如何如何如果您這麼肯定賴清德總統在國慶晚會的說法那就應當起義來歸好好站在台灣的主體性為2758不涉台的決議文做出台灣正確的歷史作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
4154.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
4161.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
在邀請國民黨在發言之前因為剛剛紅委員您舉手了不然就是請你先發言再組第二次發言 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
4165.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
4188.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
其實第一個事情是我覺得第一個還是先謝謝今天陳昭志委員召集這場協商那我們也有感覺到陳昭志委員的誠意所以這也是今天民進黨我們其實也有很多關心這個議題的委員出席的一個原因但我只是覺得第一個我們今天在談這個258議題我自己是認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
4191.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
4217.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
這是一個這個本來台灣不同的政黨之間我們本來就存在著很多互相競爭的事情可是在這個議題上面我自己認為是應該要有一個團結尋求共識我覺得這是今天討論非常重要的事情可是這個尋求的共識的過程我自己也認為不能獲悉你我覺得這件事情是先講在前面 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
4217.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
4238.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
第二件事情是我們今天在這個地方討論這個議題有幾個很重要的原因其實我想不管是陳道智委員范雲委員范雲委員剛剛其實也做了剛剛IPAC的闡述很重要的一點是就這個當下國際社會跟很多民主國家的國會正在如雨後春筍般的 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
4240.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
4253.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
一一的表達他們的看法來挺台灣所以今天我們在這個地方有一個很重要的部分是我們是在回應國際的民主國家尤其是他們的國會 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
4255.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
4280.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
的挺台我們也應該要我們自己就是當事人我們應該要做出回應跟正面而清晰的訊息的表述這是我們今天為什麼在這個地方討論這個議題重要的議題的原因他不是憑空掉出了掉下來的不是哪個政黨要去做政治操作的話先講這件事情就是包括剛剛說了從澳洲荷蘭的國會都做出這樣的決議那我要強調 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
4282.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
4293.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
澳洲跟荷蘭的都是由國會來做出這樣的決議所以今天我們作為一個國會議員某個部分當我們要呼應國際的時候其實我們本來就是在討論一個以國會為主體的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
4299.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
4317.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
我們本來就是在處理一個以國會為主體的看法所以我其實不是很清楚知道為什麼剛剛羅志強委員剛才他的發言裡面都是馬英九都是賴清德請問馬英九跟賴清德總統馬英九前總統跟賴清德總統他們是現在的國會議員嗎?他們是現在台灣國會裡面中華民國國會裡面的黨團代表嗎?他們並不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
4327.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
4356.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
我們今天在呼應國際跟接軌國際就是以國會為主體的看法的聲明跟發聲其實這是我們今天在討論裡面非常非常重要的脈絡跟原因所以回到剛才說的我覺得有幾點必須先再闡明第一個到目前為止中華人民共和國持續的正在用2758號決議來扭曲來去向國際社會表達台灣是中國的一部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
4358.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
4386.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
進而在阻擋台灣社會的國際參與包括國際組織參與這個是當下的現在進行式我們必須看到這個當下的現在進行式它正在發生傷害正在發生如果我們認清這件事情的話那我們來討論我們的這個決議文我覺得裡面有幾個部分就是很重要的事情第一個要先指出到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
4387.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4390.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
中國目前的中華人民共和國是如何扭曲 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4392.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4417.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
他怎麼樣誤讀明明就不涉及台灣但他拿的這一份1971年的文本扭曲錯誤解讀刻意的錯誤解讀產生錯誤的訊息這一份決議文裡面應該要先指出他如何扭曲他為什麼這是扭曲我覺得這部分要先表明清楚這是第一件事情第二件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4418.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4426.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
當他正在扭曲跟傷害台灣的國際參與的時候難道我們不用面對他告訴他你這樣做是不對的你現在應該要停止甚至應該譴責他這樣子的作為他正在傷害啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4434.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4448.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
所以我們不是說有人在傷害我所以我們把防彈衣要求我們行政部門趕快把防彈衣穿起來不是吧應該要先要求正在傷害我們的人停止你的傷害行為跟錯誤的行為這也應該是我們在這個決議裡面要有的東西啊所以如果從這個角度來看的話我要說 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4455.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4479.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
現在目前裡面的決議的內容我想大家都清楚知道中國就是扭曲所以扭曲的方式應該放入裡面可是第二個我們應該要面向做壞事的人面向傷害台灣的人先要求他停止甚至要譴責他幹這些傷害台灣的行為也就是中華人民共和國 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4481.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4506.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
這就是需要放入我們決議文裡面的內容我今天在這邊我拋棄我們在談黨派的問題過去紛紛擾擾我們今天都不談那些事情因為現在在兩三個禮拜前我們也剛從荷蘭跟比利時回來在那邊很多的國會議員也對於我們清楚表達出我們對2758號決議文的看法他們也表達這樣子的期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4512.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4537.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
他們也表達這樣子的期待那大家也都知道所以如果以呼應國際的角度來說的話我自己覺得看到目前國民黨的版本的內容坦白說跟目前IPEC或者是幾個發聲挺台灣的民主國家的國會的意旨跟主旨是有落差的是不太一樣的主軸是不太一樣其實讀這個文藝就讀得出來的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4539.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4564.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
所以我們應該要呼應大家現在國際社會：對於二七五八號決議文的看法的主軸然後要譴責：要求中國停止現在他幹的壞事來傷害台灣我們希望今天的討論可以在這件事上面盡量尋求共識當然共識之前大家可以各自表述可是這個尋求共識的過程不應該獲悉尼 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4566.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4578.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
而且這就是以國會為主體的討論我們當然對這個馬英九總統他有他的看法可是我今天也不想討論馬英九總統怎樣今天那個總統他現在就不是國會議員以一個國會為主體的討論該怎樣是由現在三個黨團我們的看法來決定的事情就這麼簡單好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4589.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4605.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
謝謝我想這邊幾位委員也提到說我們今天為什麼這個三黨都有相關的提案源自於就是七月底的時候第一次在台灣舉行了這個IPEC會議我大概想很久以來大概沒有這麼多國家的 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4605.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4626.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
大概將近三十個國家：然後超過兩百位的國會議員到台灣來這個是蠻盛大的事情那當天他們做了一個這樣子的可是對台灣表示非常的友善給予我們溫暖的一個提案那也都獲得通過通過之後有一些會員國他們回到自己的國家也繼續因為這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4629.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4635.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
IPAC本身就是跨國國會議員的聯盟所以他們也回去也繼續具體的做了一些努力那這些努力都是針對台灣是善意的要給予我們兩千三百萬兩千三百五十萬的人民有一些更大的空間參與國際的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4654.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4676.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
這個是一個我認為有個人認為一個非常珍貴難得的機會所以我們才有這些三黨的提案但我今天努力我知道大家認為也許最後還是要經過韓院長來做一個協商不過我們還是努力在這個層次的會議上來提出我們的一個希望能夠找到我們的公約數好那在也許羅委員再度發言之前那就蔡育瑜委員好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4684.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4685.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
好多委員謝謝剛剛聽到我們民進黨的委員的發言我嚇了一跳 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4695.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4718.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
我說這個賴清德總統這麼尊貴的名字在國會竟然變成章字是章東西不能提啊我好驚訝我嚇死了馬總統你不能提就算了抱歉喔范雲委員你們發言我一句話都沒講當初鍾嘉賓就在這個會議室承諾過發言的時候不要插嘴 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4720.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4736.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
所以如果說今天有什麼要講話的話請主席才是啦請尊重我完整的發言權我還是要回頭講啊怎麼啦黨團協商是文字語啊不能講馬英九不能講賴清德賴清德是現在的總統欸代表我們中華民國欸那到底賴清德總統的意思很重要啊我言必聲賴總統有什麼不對呢我這麼愛賴總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4750.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4761.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
我是不是愛賴清德﹖我言必稱他﹖結果你們把他當章志﹖這樣子對賴清德總統不好啦﹖我覺得真的﹖對他不公平另外剛剛吳士堯委員說﹖不要以獨亂回啊﹖吳委員這句話真好你不要以獨亂回我們賴清德總統的話好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4774.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4792.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
我當然愛戴興德啊他是中華民國的總統啊我怎麼不愛他他從兩天前突然變成中華民國總統我從兩天前開始愛他我愛死他了他把台獨整個背叛掉這完全符合我的理念雖然我很尊敬台獨的主張但我個人是中華民國派 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4793.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4815.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
所以賴清德直接在我們的國慶晚會當場頒出了一宗憲法欸一宗憲法就你剛剛講的說不要講一宗原則他頒一宗憲法欸他跟他講從今天開始中華民國才是我們的祖國中華人民共和國不是我們的祖國我們要否棄這個中華人民共和國 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4817.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4831.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
具體的行動指針就出來了也許今天吳士耀委員速度慢沒跟上我們賴清德的旨意因為兩天前才改變沒有跟上我不能插嘴但是可以走動沒問題委員盡量走動 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4833.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4855.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
所以吳偉仁的動作慢半拍所以沒有跟上賴清德總統已經標示一中憲法了已經告訴大家我們就是中華民國就是祖國反映在2758決議上最好來秉持賴清德總統的這個精神抱歉來我貢獻我們今天賴清德總統最好的聲明 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4857.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4883.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
中華民國是主權獨立的國家．也是聯合國創始會員國聯合國大會2758決議．不公正排除中華民國的代表權及國際參與．長期以來造成國際上我國人民權益缺乏保障．國際參與邊緣化．以及至尊受損的孤兒困境。中華民國政府致死表達反對2758決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4885.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4886.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
我告訴你賴總統 這個聲明送給賴總統 僅成賴總統請賴總統轉交民進黨黨團 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4893.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4919.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
因為從兩天前開始我們就統一啦不要再講台灣共和國台灣共和國要給 可以啦台灣共和國民進黨代總統再改變一次也許兩天後再改變一次然後直接宣布台灣共和國台灣獨立那麼民進黨接下來再推用台灣共和國名義加入聯合國也是民政延順就歡迎代總統直接宣布台獨然後用台灣共和國名義加入聯合國民政延順 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4922.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4947.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
如果賴總統兩天前的祖國論是真心誠意的話那很好啊那今天中國國民黨已經寫好了一個反對2758的決議我們就是要用中華民國的身份來告訴大家中華人民共和國不是我們的祖國啊我們要用中華民國的身份堂堂正正的重返國際社會啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4948.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4969.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
所以我要跟我們吳士堯委員說跟剛剛不遵守2758馬上離席的侯生幻委員說我要跟大家講以獨不回是誰啊以獨亂回是誰啊以獨亂回就是已經慢半拍的吳士堯跟民進黨立法院黨團嘛情勢已經變更總統已經轉向總統已經擁抱中華民國了 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4972.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4992.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
民進黨黨團跟上腳步賴清德總統不是張誌不要說在國會電台竟然講賴清德總統竟然是一種罪我承擔不起啊拜託拜託請賴清德總統就直接宣布我就以中華民國的尊嚴跟身份反對2758決議充滿聯合國謝謝然後蔡委員好聽到很難聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
5001.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
5010.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
加公賴清德,不加公中國。事實上我們今天在討論的就是國會對於全世界民主國家包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
5011.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
5034.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
澳洲包括荷蘭在強調2758號決議文不涉台這件事情全世界的國會發出了正義之聲那我們台灣的國會應該要來響應這樣的聲明所以我們希望用國會的立場大家做出一個完整共同我們一致的一個理念響應國際上來支持台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
5035.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
5045.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
今天主席召開這樣的我們今天的協商問題重點就在這裡啊結果國民黨勒你們的決議就是來亂的剛剛講的那句那些話也是來亂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
5050.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
5056.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
跟賴清德主席在國慶晚會的演說有什麼關係嗎?2758號決議文是在1971年他的內容是什麼?我再唸一次給國民黨的代表聽一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
5067.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
5090.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
他的決定是恢復中華人民共和國一切權益．承認他的政府．代表中國在聯合國組織的唯一合法代表．並立即把蔣介石的代表．從他在聯合國組織．及其一切所屬．一切機構．中所非法佔據的席位上驅逐出去。這個就是2758號決議文的本文 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
5094.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
5119.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
大家都知道我們文字上的理解那過去就是被中國扭曲中國說這個就是一中原則這個就是中國否認台灣否認中華民國在國際上的一個代表性去讓中國這樣扭曲那可是他的本文裡面完全沒有講到中華民國也沒有講到台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
5121.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
5142.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
所以現在全世界開始去驚喜這件事過去可能大家都有中國的壓力阿中國這樣說大家最配合的說那可能過去了現在大家就漸漸發生中一切事實是怎樣那我們就把事實恢復那當澳洲當荷蘭的議員國會議員他們來發出這樣的聲音的時候我們台灣的國會不用有聲音嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
5149.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
5155.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
我們台灣國會：不用在這樣的情況之下：我們做出：我們呼應全世界 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
5156.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
5181.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
的一個共同聲明所以國民黨你們在反對2758號決議文你們卻不敢講到中國那講到底那你們為什麼不反對1949年的時候中國﹐中華人民共和國從中華民國分裂出去為什麼你們不反對你們跳出了台北啊你跳出來的不是中國啊你想要在中華民國大家分裂出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
5183.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
5187.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
1949年賴清德總統講的就是這樣的一段歷史啊!75歲以上的中國人為什麼要說中華民國是祖國?為什麼?就是中華人民共和國從中華民國分裂出去啊!這個你們國民黨最懂!因為當時沒有民眾黨!當時也沒有民進黨!那都臨步的! |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
5207.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
5234.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
阿你末日才來這裡找老闆：等全世界要停頓的時候：阿你就在那裡早點來早點去我看這樣今天：也沒什麼好開了是不是用韓院長來主持我們還是有誠心的呼應主席我們要有一個共同的決議文來響應全世界來支持台灣我們不能把我們國內政治上的分歧變成台灣走不出去的一個原因好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
5234.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
5248.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
我們都盡力在保護我們的家人跟台灣因為今天是民眾黨的提案那我想還是讓大家暢所欲言吳委員謝謝主席我想這個國民黨的委員不是來面對問題討論問題解決問題就是唯恐天下不亂就是來亂的在台灣的國會亂就算了我們不能夠放任台灣的國會 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
5261.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
5278.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
到世界上去做一個歐美亂來的生命那我想這個趙姿姐跟我們范雲委員都是IPAC的co-chair最了解IPAC在處理2758號決議不涉台的很多主張然後很多導正然後很多對世界發聲的這些聯合行動 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
5283.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
5287.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
那後續民進黨團我們跟民眾黨的這個內容上我想在本質上是比較接近我們也不會放棄持續的溝通對話那整合出一個符合台灣主流民意符合正確的史觀也符合國際社會挺台抗中的共同集體行動這是我們不會放棄努力那後續既然是立法院的聯合聲明我們就是近代韓院長所主持的那各黨的對話 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
5313.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
5314.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
國民黨的代表：可能也聽不下羅志強的說法：可能也就走了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
5328.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
5334.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
那既然還是這個朝野協商：我們今天來的：有Culture的：那個IPEC的Culture：有我們的黨團的黨編：我們都代表黨團的立場那我們也希望後續在協商的時候：各黨黨團的立場：黨編們要負責任的好好來發言那謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
5346.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5365.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
謝謝各位的發言因為我們知道其他就是兩黨也會有後續的一些黨體但本來我是希望能夠是不是先有一個版本讓韓院長能夠做協商那可不可能用民眾黨的這個版本先去進行當然本來是iPad的公版如果大家可以接受這是也是一個指標那個主席我們不然聽完 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5375.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5382.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
三個版本,因為各黨都有,也不要遺漏任何一個版本,那三個版本一起交院長的協商。 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5391.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5410.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
2758決議是非常嚴肅的事情民進黨不要好像你們提的案子就是你們就是來主張案子別人提的案子就會來亂剛剛基本上 欸欸欸 又來雖然齁 又來了又來去跟宗嘉賓講去跟宗嘉賓講 宗嘉賓當場答應我不會插話的好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5414.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5431.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
中嘉賓當場答應我講不贏就走啦我懂啦講不贏就走沒關係我還是跟主席講程序一樣要完備今天對於中華民國來講我們的立場向來一貫啊我們今天的主權獨立國家就是中華民國啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5432.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5461.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
那很抱歉啊賴清德總統在兩天前也肯認了這個主張這個立場啊那民進黨到現在委託的問題也不敢回答那請問你要重返你要不管是加入聯合國重返聯合國你的名義是什麼你是台灣共和國呢還是中華民國呢顯然目前這世界上沒有台灣共和國這個國家那如果有台灣共和國這個國家我覺得也沒問題啊那賴清德總統你就去主張台灣獨立嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5463.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5489.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
但在沒有台灣共和國這個國家的時候 你要以什麼樣的主體身份來重返聯合國呢?最好的狀況當然就是中華民國嘛所以中華民國從頭到尾就是反對2758決議剛剛雖然蔡議員想說聽我的話聽不下去 他的話我很認真聽啦他剛剛講一個重點嘛2758決議裡面既沒有提到中華民國四個字 也沒有提到台灣兩個字啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5490.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5517.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
說換言之：照民進黨的邏輯：既然2758決議不涉台：那也不涉中華民國啊不是嗎這差異語的主張啊那不涉台我當然說民進黨要主張用台灣共和國因為不涉台嘛用台灣共和國進去那你耐心的你就有本事宣布台灣獨立嘛不要當龜孫子宣布台灣獨立就可以台灣共和國民意加入聯合國但如果你沒這個膽量宣布台灣獨立的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5519.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5541.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
那我就問民進黨阿我們現在國家國民的主體不就兩天前耐心的講著中華民國阿那你不用中華民國重返聯合國你用什麼名稱名義重返聯合國你講個告訴我阿更重要的是唉不要作秀啦你今天提2758決議我剛剛就講了兩個承諾都不敢答應嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5542.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5564.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
你今天真的要讓我們中華民國或是民進黨新興念的台灣共和國有一個國際參與空間你不是在這邊啦你民進黨這麼厲害每天大外宣你去把聯合國的所有成員國將在聯合國大會提案啊提案兩個提案嘛第一個打破2758決議啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5566.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5582.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
第二個聯合國直接宣布就以台灣共和國的名義讓賴清德進到聯合國啊這兩條路你講第三條路給我聽嘛沒有這一條路結果下了全部走光光還有那個賴 我覺得胡適堯最好笑 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5583.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5599.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
我講賴清德他竟然是那麼痛恨賴清德什麼時候變張字張東西啊賴清德是國家元首兩天前宣誓效忠中華民國終於誕生了兩天前的新中華民國總統我當然尊敬他我言必稱他難道不對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5601.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5607.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
提出建設性的方案國民黨的提案最好作為共同聲明剛剛好對 我覺得民眾黨提案也不錯啦也不錯啦但民進黨的提案根本就是來亂的真正來亂的就是民進黨 以上好 謝謝羅委員那我再說明一下我們本黨所用的名詞是中華民國台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5619.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5634.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
那這樣的話本案今天沒有辦法取得三黨的共識不過大家也是把心裡的話都表達出來那謝謝那我們這個案子我們就交到交請韓院長來進行協商那謝謝大家謝謝行政官員的出席那我們散會謝謝 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-10-08T10:30:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院朝野黨團協商（事由：本院台灣民眾黨黨團，建請院會作成決議：「兩岸之間的歷史和政治糾葛，由來已久。中華民國在台灣歷經民主化之洗禮，實現了主權在民之原則，台灣的民主自由更獲得國際社會的肯認。也因此，台灣的國際處境，近年來獲得了諸多國際關注。基於聯合國憲章所揭櫫之原則，台灣本應獲得更多國際參與之空間，台灣人民亦應享有與他國國民相同之國際參與權利。今年7月，『對中政策跨國議會聯盟』（IPAC）在台北召開的大會，通過決議『1971年的聯合國第2758號決議處理的是中華人民共和國的外交地位，並沒有裁定中華人民共和國擁有對台灣的主權，也沒有對台灣未來參與聯合國或其他國際組織做出任何認定。』隨後，澳大利亞及荷蘭國會，相繼以IPAC決議為範本，通過聯大2758號決議並不涉台之動議。這是我國國會外交上的重大突破，我們樂見並感謝世界各國對台灣的支持。我們也認知，我國政府自身的努力才是真正的關鍵。因此，在此基礎上，立法院要求行政部門：一、積極爭取有意義地參與各種國際組織，打開中華民國台灣之國際參與空間。二、在本會期，邀請行政院院長針對台灣參與『聯合國』（UN）、『世界衛生組織』（WHO）、『國際民航組織』（ICAO）、『國際刑警組織』（ICPO）、『跨太平洋夥伴全面進步協定』（CPTPP）等工作進度，在立法院進行專案報告。」是否有當？請公決案。） |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:00:00 - 11:35:00 |