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| 委員名稱 |
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發言會現在繼續開會進行施政報告之質詢今天進行個人質詢、內政組織質詢請麥委員、郁真質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1838.176 |
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1858.012 |
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質詢台,那個麥委員,質詢台,請看到副院長太緊張放輕鬆沒關係好 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1862.406 |
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1875.855 |
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謝謝副院長我們副院長主持會議和我們的韓院長主持會議都讓人都會稱呼我們是委員這就是我們院長跟副院長主持的風範 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1877.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1899.986 |
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不像昨天我去經濟委員會的民進黨昭偉 邱志偉完全不同昨天我去經濟委員會質詢的時候邱志偉當任會議主持直接交賣陣上台作為主持會議的格調真的高下立判了好 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1901.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1907.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
蔓委員好請教一下我們卓院長不在籍投票的態度如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1928.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1950.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
不再投票當然要讓每個國民能夠行使政治的權利公民的權利應該廣泛的來討論實施的可能但應該要克服的是很多技術上現在存在的一些困難如果我們能夠克服技術上的困難也克服政治上的障礙我認為可以往前去做更多的思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1951.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1978.279 |
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以你的計畫我們共同去努力來去克服但是技術上跟政治上的障礙還是蠻多的但是我們要努力來想想有沒有好的方法謝謝 謝謝我們卓院長一陣在3個會期以在野黨就是強力推動下好不容易通過了新住民基本法也落實柯文哲對新住民的承諾唯一 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1979.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1999.528 |
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美中不足的地方就是只有專職中央三級行政機關當初我們陳建源院長一句話三級機關已滿不把賴總統的政見當一回事我也委曲求全爭取到了中央三級機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2001.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2018.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
內政部長劉世芳部長也說三期機關已經滿了但是很幸運這一屆我們的卓院長很有魄力商任馬上就把體育署升格為體育部 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2019.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2019.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2036.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2043.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
首先向委員報告體育署升格這個不是這樣的講法這是一個全新的體育部 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2062.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2076.662 |
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體育部不是由體育署來升格的所以他是一個完全新概念新組織新的政策新的策略新的面對國人的一個全新的體育部所以體育署並沒有升格的問題那體育部 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2077.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2077.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
請部長說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2098.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2126.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
謝謝麥委員的關心我想我完全沒有打假球我們在好幾次的這個對談當中都有跟麥委員報告我們根據行政院的組織架構跟中央行政機關基準法的檢討方向確實沒有錯現在署的這樣子的一個成績已經有達到70上限所以我們必須要等這個上限通出來之後馬上可以填補進去成立我們的新住民的這個發展署 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2127.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2151.688 |
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這個不管是行政院的政務委員或者是我們現在在處理這個有關於未來的新住民的發展方向我們的常務次長吳唐安他們都兩周以內都是進行在處理未來有關新住民發展署的一個整個的方向而且我們分成6個重要的任務指標包括原額架構或是未來的發展等等都有包含在內跟麥委員做報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2154.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2179.044 |
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好謝謝所以說我們不是升格是直接成立對不對全新的體育部對所以這個我們大家都認同大家也希望說這個部就是即將要成立是最好的所以跟滿的滿邊還有滿也沒有什麼差別我的意思就是說要不要做而已 |
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2179.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2201.693 |
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所以在我們的奧運過後我們卓院長就是指示下就是要中央行政機關組織基本法可見當初不是滿編可以去修改所以而不是政府我的用意就是重不重視要不要做這個問題所以說我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2206.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2218.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
賴清德總統在選舉的時候提出照顧新住民五大政見這個是其中之一而已所以我們成立一個專職機構也是總統府我們總統的政見 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2223.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2237.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
所以我們希望說他跟我們新住民承諾也不是詐騙的不要騙我們新住民的感情我們是主推五大政見其中之一希望就是未來真的去 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2238.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2266.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
成立新住民發展署因為呢我當一天立委我一直盯著這個五大政見我們賴總統就是要跟我們承諾一定要做到沒有的話我每天就會盯著我們就會盯著這件事情希望他的五大政見我們卓院長你要重視也要說執行我們賴總統的政見這個就是要請院長要 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2267.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2273.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
總統在選舉期間提出的政見都會是現在政府必須全面檢視要推動的國家政策之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2291.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2311.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那當然國家政策的推動他雖然全面的檢視他的執行跟實施也是要循序漸進那現在這個都已經那剛剛部長已經說明清楚了都有計畫但什麼時候能夠去實現這樣的一個政策也跟委員想像的過程一樣那這個還要做一些努力我剛剛說過 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2312.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2339.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
體育部升格之後還有很多的體育的教育跟學校相關的設施的維護跟設施的建設都必須要有現在的單位來做處理我們現在思考如何維持現在教育部的工作及未來體育及運動發展部的工作這兩者之間要如何做一個很清楚的界面同時要有相當多的互相的跨部會的配合這個部分還在處理當中所以現在我們在中央組織基礎部 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2340.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2341.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
新住民的專責機構的機關的處理已經有他的構想循序漸進推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2358.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2360.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
金管會統計在8月29號到9月4號每日平均我們的民眾被詐騙4億1千 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2389.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2403.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
五百一十三萬元 行政院在5月9號也通過打炸新市法說要完善打炸防護網 使打炸更有成效 讓人民的財產 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2405.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2432.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
保護的最有保障請問的成效在哪裡但是呢我們在10月3號全國放颱風架但是呢全國放颱風架我們是被詐騙只有2億這個代表什麼原因我們警政署有沒有去調查原因放颱風架是全國應用網路的是最高峰的 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2432.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2433.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
這才是我們想要了解的 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2446.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2469.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
好 謝謝委員關心詐騙的事情日前也有委員在關心隨行過這個詐騙的數字那內政部 劉部長他有非常詳實的數字的說明報告我請部長來說明是 謝謝麥委員的關心委員都非常清楚打詐是法在立法院朝野政黨的努力之下我們在7月底公佈出去以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2470.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2485.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
打詐新司法對於我們在處理打詐其實成效非常的多您現在引用的數據是8月份跟7月份的比較但是如果你用打詐儀表版每天所發生的打詐的受理次數跟受理的這個財損數的話你會發現它是在下降的 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2488.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2516.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那當然你剛剛有提到說在颱風天啊颱風天大家都在家裡面用比較多的網路那這個網路的部分呢我們跟數位發展部也好或是跟我們的金管會都會互相結合會推出比較好的執法譬如說網路的這個平台業者要怎麼樣規範他如果他有收受跟這些違法的這個網路平台業者的廣告的時候呢嚴格來講他必須要接受比較大的這個懲罰或者甚至要下架的處分 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2518.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2539.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
執政部會警政署要怎麼樣去做這個部分我們都是有規劃有一個規則但是我在關心的是說我們警政署在2016年有成立打詐中心2022年也有成立就是我們的打詐國家隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2541.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2569.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
2023年我們也成立打架的辦公室還有今年也成立瓜布會的打架中心所以我們就是一直在做打架越打越架所以就希望說我們要用好的方式我們要研議要研究說為什麼疫情的時間我們是減少了不是說我們5月份成立我們就8月份一天就被騙那麼多 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2570.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2570.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
委員： |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2586.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2613.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
政績：預算：內容也沒有改部門：改：回頭這樣的兩億的數據跑到哪裡去還有我們行政院目前提出來的就是新世代打詐詐欺涉獵行動網01.5版根本沒有顯示效果真是真的沒有好的落實但是現在打詐網又說2點 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2617.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2629.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
2.0何時可以出爐就是我們一直改變但是詐騙越來越多所以我們就是要演繹要如何做更好才能保護我們人民不要被詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2631.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2653.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
跟委員補充報告一下在2023年之前我們警政署在計算有關於打炸的這個案件數的時候是一案就算一件但是現在我們的方式是一案如果涉及多人的話就變成是多件也就是計算的標準不一樣所以你會看到好像數目是增加非常的多再來給我們詳細的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2656.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2684.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
我現在就是要跟您解釋一下然後最重要就是我們打造新審法我想要請問第3個就是消因為時間有限因為警消人力的缺口他們也一直希望我們來協助就是何時可以補齊就關於就是我們各種樣式的專案如就是掃黑啊機槍啊機毒啊打架交通安全的執法專案還有一些就是我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2686.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2686.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
議員主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2709.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2716.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
是 報告委員那個有關於警消的缺口的部分我們警政署在113年會預計增加1300人那消防署的部分謝謝考試院幫忙我們現在已經要禁用949人那在一定程度上面可以彌補現在的缺口好 謝謝我們的部長再來書面可以給我 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2738.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2767.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
最後因為我時間有限所以我就是最後我在這邊呼應我們的執政黨不管我們來自哪裡在什麼領地我們永遠都是媽媽心目中的寶貝每一個人的生命財產都是很重要如果我們要對別人說我們要全力捍衛中華民國首先請提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2767.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2769.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
好,謝謝麥委員,謝謝卓院長下一位請沈伯陽委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2805.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2813.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
有沒有聲音有有謝謝副院長那有請院長跟那個部長謝謝那個左院長還有劉部長謝謝兩位請 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2825.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2844.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
森委員好院長好我今天的問題大概只有兩個因為我想說總質詢的時間並沒有所謂問幾個大方向因為第一個題目是跟內政部比較有關所以可能會請市方部長來回答第二個問題可能會跟部會的協調比較有關所以可能會請院長第一個問題是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2848.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2876.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
就是因為這個新聞的關係我們都可以一直看到就是這個全社會這個防衛任性就現在這個總統府已經召開了這個第一次的會議但因為有一個這個所謂40萬名利一直被強調我昨天在國防外交委員會其實也非常多的委員來造謠就是說對於這個40萬名利的解釋跟我們心目中講的不太一樣不斷的去提到說這是民兵又或者說是不是要上戰場等等之類的一個論述 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2878.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2894.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
但是我們先不管說這一方面的謠言到底長什麼樣子因為畢竟媒體鋪天蓋地在這邊的報導其實是非常的誤導那我總覺得這邊有幾個細項我想問一下第一個就是大概在2022年左右就是我們的管主委那時候也是立法委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2894.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2918.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
他在質詢的時候其實那時候有提到他說這個民力的部分當時是51萬51萬結果現在降到大概47也就是民力有減少所以也就是說當我們講到40萬這個民防人力的時候看起來好像是比過往的人更減少了那我不知道是說計算的標準是現在不一樣了還是說的確我們的民防人力有減少的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2920.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2935 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
謝謝沈委員的關心我非常清楚這個總統府所召開的全社會防衛任性一共有五大分組那內政部所負責的是屬於可治民利這一組那所以在內政部的管轄內我們一定要根據我們的法律上的授權 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2935.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2964.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
我們現在所根據的法律授權來自於民防法災害防救法還有這個替代役管理條例那如果可以再延伸的話可以跟警察法跟消防法一起來折算所以呢我們按照這樣子的方式包括民防的這個民力的這個整編的部分的落在警消為主所以我們算出來大概基本上再加上一部分是屬於志願團體的像志工團體這一些我們志工團體所酌算的比較不多也就是說他如果平常只有上課兩小時四小時我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2965.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2990.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
沒有把它算在內所以真正則算出來大概是落在40萬到41萬左右所以這個是我們很正確的一個說法提供給這個省委員參考確實的反而是人力上的一個減少那剛剛這個部長有提到法規其實我覺得法規還是最重要的畢竟法規本身就有規定有多少然後或者說是什麼樣的編組是在這個民防體系裡面所以我這邊有整理這個中央主管機關我們最主要這四種不同的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2991.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3017.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
民防防護團﹚架構圖﹚裡面的人數﹚這個下面全部都是民防團隊編組演習扶勤支援軍事勤務辦法這個是第9條這個是17、18、19條這個是21條其實這都是非常清楚的事情所以我不是很清楚為什麼說在這個不管是在媒體上面或者說我們有些立法委員一直沒有去看法條所以他們完全不知道說這個民防人力到底在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3018.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3035.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
是 報告省委員我相信很多人他們大概有點斷章取義根據民防法裡面或是根據我們全社會防衛這個韌性裡面所標示的最重要的一件事情就是維持我們台灣的社會穩定也就是說我們這麼多的這個民力的部分維持台灣的社會穩定或是包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3036.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3062.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
嚇嚇的包括衛福交通或者是經濟農業等等臺灣社會的穩定是我們目前最大的一個需要做的任務編組尤其我們知道天災才是目前臺灣所面對到的最大的一個挑戰那維持臺灣社會穩定還有維持政府的正常運作然後第三個是支援軍事勤務這些都在我們通過多年的民防法裡面第二條寫得非常的清楚所以內政部是按照民防法裡面的規範一步一步往前推進的 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3063.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3064.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
那我這邊想要確定一件事情就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3090.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3118.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
因為按照權動署這樣的一個架構﹖他的一個綱領﹖他有八大計畫﹖他的右下角這邊有交通動員準備方案﹖然後有這個跟教育部比較有關的一些﹖精神動員﹖財力動員﹖等等之類的這一些動員的人﹖多少其實也是算﹖人力﹖但我不是很確定的事情就是﹖當我們在講這個40萬的時候﹖我們也把這個交通的﹖或者說今天跟這個科技動員的﹖可能速發的那些人有算進來﹖還是沒有算進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3121.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3144.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
我跟委員補充一下第一個您現在所說的動員準備綱領這個部分應該是全民防衛動員就是全動法裡面全動法的主政機關是國防部但是有一部分是內政部來配合的就有點像您剛所說你再問到有關科技的部分有關交通的部分有關衛生的部分在於我們全社會防衛任性的話它就是屬於特種防護團 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3145.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3174.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
也就是我們常常在提到如果是關鍵基礎設施比如說可能是台電的電廠或是中油的油廠或者是中華電信等等這些單位那他們這些單位呢就要根據我們的需求提出專業的訓練成立特種防護團來做有關防護的工作那就是跟我跟剛剛跟您報告的一樣在平時的時候呢他就是維持他們自己本身的運作的正常然後跟外界要提供電提供油然後提供那個有關電信的溝通這個交通等等這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3174.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3175.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3190.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3215.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
感謝因為現在目前來講這幾個的進度我是在各部會的時候去問說這個目前的進度到什麼地方那當然我會想知道說譬如說右上角這個部分因為是內政部主責其實40萬目前的計算比較多是還是在內政部這一個就右上角這一個部分那關於這個內政部因為在2023年的時候已經有開始在盤點民防人力然後接下來可能會有一些教育上的一些這個課程的一個改寫 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3215.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3230.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
還包含在最後一行這一個這邊可能有點擋到就是替代役的這一個人力的動員我去年我這還沒有進來立法院之前我有去幫替代役上過課所以呢但是這個上面這兩個目前的進度為何我可能之後在內政委員會的時候再來詢問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3231.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3256.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
因為這個部分我覺得麻煩的地方是因為現在預算要編但因為預算編了之後有可能是譬如說我們針對這個的訓練我們編大量的預算但也有可能我們不需要大量的預算它可能只是課程的變更因為原來的課程可能我們也知道可能有時候是跟這個民防沒有什麼太大的關係那如果是課程內容的修改它可能不一定需要那麼大的一個預算擺在那一邊所以關於這個細項我可能到內政委員會的時候再來詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3257.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3257.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3280.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3292.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
教育部退場機制以後給內政部納管我們會把大部分替代役的訓練放在中州學院來幫忙處理這部分比較多會落在訓練跟教材的經費我想這也非常重要目前為止我們主要的功能分成兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3299.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3323.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
致安維護組以及消防應變組這兩項才是目前我們臺灣社會上非常急需的部分所以未來不管是訓練也好或是教材也好或是一部分的設備我們都要希望透過114年的預算把它補充這樣子比較快速可以進入我們臺灣的全社會防衛任性裡面也協助現在的警消或是一警一消做一部分的工作上面的支援 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3324.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3340.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
謝謝部長因為我認為這個訓練跟教材的這個改變很重要那希望錢能夠花在島口上那接下來我想問一下就是第二個問題這可能最主要是要問院長的就是中國威脅的問題那這邊呢中國威脅呢這個我在這一個最近呢我們針對中國的威脅把它分成幾個主要的面向 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3341.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3364.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
包含軍事威脅﹑社會上的滲透﹑輿論的影響﹑左上角所謂的經濟的影響﹑政治整複的滲透還包含法律戰﹑外交戰等等之類的在這邊我發現在台灣的法規在盤點的時候我們發現我們對於經濟安保這個部分經濟安全這個部分保護的是稍微比較少一點我們經濟部隊產業當然也是比較保護 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3367.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3386.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
2019 年日本已經從經濟安保法有一系列的法律不斷的通過這個部分我們就會對於中國有關的滲透可能應對的不一定那麼得當我先從幾個小例子開始這個例子其實非常的小這個例子是有人在網路上分享他是說他這個新兵他要去當兵的這個路上 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3387.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3412.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
結果看到遊覽車上面在放解放軍為共產主義奮鬥終生我們去稍微想了一下這件事情到底會怎麼發生第一個如果是國防部直接包的車發生當然我們要問國防部說他在包車的時候到底有沒有去注意這件事情但他也有可能只是單純比如說新兵他們自己有輔委輔委自己去找遊覽車遊覽車來載他們可能是要往來高鐵站 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3416.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3416.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
民政局：國防部 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3446.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3446.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3475.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3494.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
經濟安全已經是總統在和平四大支柱裡面的一項當然就是現在國家會積極的來維護國家安全重要的一環那很多的威脅有形的無形的我覺得無形的威脅文化上的威脅更是每天每時在進行的 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3494.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3516.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
像剛剛委員所提到這個案例我們知道他是在9月23號臺中市政府在載送一些經典朋友們這個義南的一個車輛上面現在的說明是說司機自行但是我是認為這個就是一個警覺心跟習慣性的問題剛剛委員也非常的清楚說我們又有法律的嚴肅的這個看這個問題也許 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3518.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3518.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
委員會長 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3536.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3557.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
行為人的行為注意的太陽我們可以在契約之外的精神或契約裡面的適合的文字來做一些說明而不是用直接的裁判我想我們可以繼續這樣的努力但是總之這種努力是全面但是總還會有一些漏洞中央跟地方要合力來填補這些漏洞才能完全執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3559.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3575.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
這個案例是臺中市政府的兵役徵集就我們所知道他大概是用外面的遊覽車把服兵役的年輕人送到軍營裡面去所以國防部還沒有接收的時候是前半截是臺中市政府的兵役徵集 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3577.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3577.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
﹚發言委員： |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3594.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3613.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
謝謝因為對我來講就是說它不一定是對方惡意一定要做什麼滲透的問題但一旦是我們在契約上面或者說我們並沒有去規範的時候它本來就有這個空間可以去做但是剛剛院長跟部長都有提到它是地方政府地方政府來做這件事情的時候我們有時候根本就沒有辦法管到地方政府它要怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3614.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3614.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
在今年大概3月質詢的時候就有提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3630.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3647.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
那時候剛好也是在跟這個海委會在質詢的過程提到說他們可能在觀光方面可能在產業方面故意繞過我們的中央政府去跟地方談那等於用共產黨典型的模式用地方來包圍中央你今天中央不跟我好我地方來跟我好 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3647.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3649.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
臺灣的民意代表及相關業者主動繞開民進黨政府和中國直接交流 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3673.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3701.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
這下面這一段呢中國與金門開始積極尋找新的合作點來想辦法規避民進黨帶來的兩岸關係的不穩定因素啦那再來呢就是呢這個之前的陸委會其實已經提過了說照理說如果今天兩岸條例第5條的規範涉及公權力的事項沒有經過授權是不能夠簽署任何相關的協議嘛什麼等等之類的但因為中國在國外現在做的方式很多譬如說他們之前呢我先把報告台的案例譬如說之前就發生過美國特定的州他就直接在討論說 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3702.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3703.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
關於兩岸事務都是中央的職權 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3757.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3765.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
好,謝謝沈委員好,謝謝卓院長下一位請廖先祥委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3787.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3790.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
謝謝副院長那一樣邀請我們的卓院長請卓院長備詢廖委員好院長好院長其實我最近收到了一個糾紛案有一個政府單位採購一包米 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3811.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3840.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
那這個政府單位收到的時候發現這包米裡面有兩包有兩粒米黑了那壞了因此採購人員選擇不簽收但是這個商家也不寄一包沒有問題的米過來現在就這樣在這邊請問院長是建議這個採購單位的採購人員睜一隻眼閉一隻眼把這包有問題的米收下來還是請這個商家的老闆寄一包新的過來 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3842.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3854.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
買賣一種契約在民法上的契約雙方出賣人這一方他必須要有對瑕疵擔保的責任任何的瑕疵都應該要做適當的這個回復原狀或是彌補 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3857.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3883.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
我想這個是法律上的要求一個東西它有一個完整性不能說可能有大部分是好的少部分有問題的那就要硬要人家吞進去對不對那我想院長應該非常清楚我舉這個例子我就是要提我們的總預算案那我們這次的總預算案您認為是立法院二一杯葛嗎我覺得立法院是對行政院所 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3885.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3913.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
提出的理由還不甚了解我們希望之後繼續的溝通所以您到過了這麼久的時間院長還不了解我們立法院可能包括國民黨民進黨抱歉啦國民黨民眾黨還有無黨籍的委員沒有將總預算賦為的原因您還沒有到現在為止沒有來了解我是說大院不了解行政院這是編列預算的原因所以我們會繼續溝通是立法院不了解行政院編列的原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3914.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3944.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
那這個立法院的立場 院長應該非常清楚主要有三點一個法律案一個法律案的問題就是原住民的禁法補償條例這個東西是法律案那還有兩個立法院的主決議那就是這個健保點值每點0.9還有另外一個是公糧收購價的問題這兩個是立法院的主決議好 我們先撇開立法院的主決議不講立法院的主決議畢竟不是法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3944.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3952.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
那針對這個立法院通過的中華民國的法律那立法院好像有一些疑義是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3953.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3974.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
是的,委員我們也應該了解﹖如果用一個法律﹖就要求行政院編足預算﹖將來立法院通過了更多更多的法律﹖行政院就必須編列更多更多的預算﹖這個就打破了行政院制定編列預算﹖立法院審議預算的這樣常規﹖也是憲法賦予兩院共同的決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3978.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3979.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
我們行政院114年編列的總預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4003.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4021.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
所編列的每一塊錢都是立法院通過的法律我們行政院依照這個法律來編列總預算他才有他的釋法性但是今天我們行政院似乎特別的針對了原住民進法補償條例的這條法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4024.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4033.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
好像選擇性的執法阿綠的制定跟完成他可以請行政院去執行某一個政策這個政策如何執行時間計畫預算應該讓行政院來處理委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4039.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4053.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
大院是監督阿所以院長認為說可能這6萬塊太急了明年來不及編如果一個計畫預算都是由立法院提出立法院本身再來監督那就違反了兩院如果說院長認為這個美工請6萬塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4056.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4081.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
可能我們法律案通過 總統公布之後的時候我們的總預算已經變得差不多了我們很難去挪我們以後想辦法去怎麼把它補足包括您剛剛可能有些人說用基金階制印往後年度可能再把它補足等等的立法院是這樣的心態嗎還是說認為只要行政院通過了法律只要跟這個單價跟金額有關的都不應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4082.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4091.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
我說法律本身可以要求行政院執行某一種政策但是這個政策的執行的過程行政院必須提出整套的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4092.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4118.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
他必須也衡量所有所有部會在編列預算以國家政策推動的整體性要走我就跟部長報告像這一次除了原住民進法補償條例還有其他許多的法律立法院通過的法律都有明定在法律中明定政府應該編列的法律預算的金額單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4119.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4127.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
立法院國家的法律還有有沒有經過協商人民要不要遵守的問題以後沒有經過協商通過了法律人民可以不遵守嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4136.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4150.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
所謂協商不是形式上的協商是我們對共同推動的實施法律總統公布就是法律了還有尊不尊守的問題啊沒有問題我們來看一下其他市長的法律我們到下一張這個就剛剛講的啦 下一張這個可能主決議啦 總統講的話也不是法律啦或許挑不了這個民眾自有公平啦 沒關係下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4166.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4179.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
這個也是立法院通過的一個法律有機農業獎勵補助辦法跟原住民進法補償條例非常的類似有面積單位每公頃有錢6萬、24萬、8萬請問一下有機農業獎勵及補貼辦法行政院有沒有編組 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4185.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4210.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
我覺得這個要經過行政立法兩院之間來協調就某一個政策同意在一定的時程或編築一定的預算像我們這樣在執行在進法補償這件事情顯然不是如此我們在草野協商的過程當中提出說如果編到4萬塊行政院是可以接受的但是在那個過程就沒有辦法這樣執行如果每個法律都是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4212.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4237.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
這樣對行政院的壓力是等於形成對國人國家財務紀律最大的壓力所以依照院長的講法我們的政府面對法律可以選擇性的一個執行不是選擇性我們行政院面對中華民國的法律可以看得順眼的就執行看不順眼的我就不遵守嗎委員請不要用選擇性這兩個字如果你用選擇性我就在說不要用壓迫性 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4239.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4249.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
這是法律阿這是法律吧這是立法院通過的法律總統頒布吧我們不要用選擇性我也不要用這個字眼這是互相協調的如果協調到一個我們認為財政的負擔底下可以而且它符合 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4260.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4283.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
循序漸進的增加可以從3萬塊一下跳到6萬塊哪一個國家的補貼政策是有這樣的目前我們的行政院到目前為止沒有釋出善意的來跟立法會公布說就像我剛剛一開始講的或許總統頒布的時候我們行政院明年的總預算已經編的差不多了我們很難去挪這個可能20多億的一個10多億20多億的預算進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4285.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4295.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
那可以來跟我們立法院協商說明年度或許很難上路我們用其他辦法來補足那往後年度我們逐漸把它上路那目前的情況就是將在這邊阿 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4296.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4318.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
我們行政院就什麼都不做啊整天在那邊這個錢只有好啦我不要講一些政治性的攻擊的話啦那目前就是兩院沒有直接溝通嘛不要認為這個錢少這個代表的意義就是兩院之間有沒有遵照整個預算編列制定跟審議的兩院的權力分立來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4318.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4331.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
我們在乎的是我們的行政院有沒有依法編列預算所以以後任何立法院通過的法律沒有經過行政院的認可這個法律就沒有辦法生效嗎以後立法院沒有經過 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4339.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4362.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
協商照院長講立法院通過的法律在通過前沒有跟立法院協商獲得共識這個法律就不用生效嗎從此以往所有的法律都是兩院協商過的哇這個立法院太侵權了吧沒有行政院同意的沒有經過協商行政院認可的法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4363.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4380.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
行政院可以不遵守律法院飛掉了啦難怪之前很多人說律法院是行政院的立法局律法院經過了法律居然要行政院同意有什麼奇怪的道理啊協商是立法院內部草野的協商協商是一個過程啊協商的結果是要順行政院的意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4382.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4382.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
我執政之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4412.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4427.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
可能上任的第一天就是克遵中華民國的憲法遵守中華民國的法律我講這個是行政部門最基本最基本的責任當然不浪費公帑啊所以我們對所有的預算都會這個原住民進發補償條例對院長是浪費公帑是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4432.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4435.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
違反國家財政紀律違反國家財政紀律的編法就是讓我們在這種狀況底下去施衡整個預算的編列 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4448.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4467.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
好,下一頁這個也是啦,就舉個例啦,就是剛剛補充一下啦,這個也是舉個例啦,交通部加速擴大吸引國際公安課,獎助辦法,境外獎勵每人五千也明定啦,明定金額啦,下一頁老農津貼也一樣啦,明定金額啦,那可能院長認為說這個沒有經過 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4471.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4476.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
有經過行政院的同意立法院的文化就是這樣子如果說立法院通過我原提的法律案會增加行政院預算的話可能都是不太恰當的 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4499.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4521.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
委員可以提一個法案希望行政院做哪些政策但這個政策如何執行計畫預算都要行政院來編列執行完之後接受委員的監督 這樣才是兩院的制衡我懂 我懂 我懂但是我們的總統好像不是這麼認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4523.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4547.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
民國9月7年3月14號國民年金法部份台灣修正法案提案人柯建民、賴清德、葉怡菁第52條之一新增項目新增項目這個分完這是生育給付特別規定就是可能在國民年金在生育的部分特別增加了一些預算增加預算的部分就是一定是國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4548.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4573.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
要增編預算在院長的眼裡這可能有點違反兩院的願績後來有沒有通過那下一頁請問委員後來有沒有通過訂獎勵再生能源發電條例這個也是提案人非常多藍綠都有藍綠都有包括我們的賴清德總統這個也是每電收購多少元也是要求國家增編預算後來有沒有通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4573.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4601.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
財政能源條例現在不是被罵得很慘嗎?有沒有通過財政能源條例應該有,現在在上路吧買了一天不就用這個那就是行政兩位互相,兩位協調的結果可是剛剛院長說我們立法委員提的預算增加國家編列的預算我有點的大舌頭不好意思剛剛院長說我們立法委員提的法律案如果會增加國家預算的話這個東西可能不太恰當 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4601.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4619.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
我都說要經過兩院的協調才可以總統都一直在這麼做啊經常斷了我一句話,這樣不好,這樣會造成大家的誤會這個金額更高了,97年7月8號當然是民主進步黨立法院黨團提案,但這時候可能我們的賴清德總統是黨團幹部,一樣有提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4625.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4643.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
可能那時候有一些金融風暴那希望政府增編一些經費政府擴大公共投資經費上限583億元那其中也有一些個人的細項包括本人4千元、撫養親屬美人4千元也是有一個預算的規模 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4644.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4660.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
跟一個單價的問題好像在院長的眼裡都不是那麼的恰當那如果要通過都要請政院我們這一代政治人物不要用故意這種的方式來誤解大家我沒有說立法院不能提這個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4661.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4662.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
總預算將局賴統統目前神隱除了在媒體上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4683.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4701.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
發一些言打打嘴砲嘴在野糖之外用情緒勒索的治水預算設服預算綁架衛浴法邊的預算之外總統好像有一些正事沒做啦中華民國憲法第44條這個院與院之間的紛爭除本憲法規定外的召集各位院長委員情緒性的發言解決不了實質問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4709.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4716.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
好,謝謝廖委員下一位我們請葉元之委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4755.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4755.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
請卓院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4767.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4784.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
市長好我想說先針對我們板橋有一個地方人是非常關心的一個都市計畫跟院長澄清因為這個都市計畫已經拖非常久了當初新北市政府第一次是102年的時候送到內政部後來因為退回公展又整合地方意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4785.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4802.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
所以整合了8年,110年再送到內政部這就是我們的福州都市計畫那110年送到內政部之後呢,內政部在111年的2月開了第一次的都委會的專案小組然後因為覺得8年過太久了,所以要退回 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4803.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4823.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
叫新北市政府再次公展再整合地方意見然後新北市政府112年10月又報內政部那目前呢又開了兩次的專案小組一次是在今年5月7號另外一次是9月26號那我特別利用我們總質詢的時間跟院長講是因為這個都市計畫真的很久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4823.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4850.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
那也經歷了蔡總統時代歷任行政院長過去有行政院長跟內政部長到了我們那個地方都被地方的里長問這個都市計畫結果都打不出來結果地方人士就覺得說政府好像很不重視這個都市計畫所以我今天特別利用這個機會來跟院長當面跟你報告希望說你也來關心這個案子因為這個福州都市計畫大概對我們地方發展很重要第一個它是 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4851.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4875.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
有非常多的都市更新的規劃第二個它也有幫助到我們太阪輕軌的興建因為太阪輕軌的部分道路必須要經過區段徵收然後還有就是這個都市計畫一直沒有通過導致於我們地方有很多污水下水道也沒有辦法興建那當然這個都市計畫通過之後對於中央的社會住宅的興建也有相關的配合因為也提撥5%的地 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4877.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4893.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
注入此類還有安全的問題所以我在這邊希望院長可以承諾因為實在拖太久了能不能我們設定一個階段性的目標在明年中的時候可以讓專案小組的可以送出 送到大會去 不知道可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4894.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4897.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
因為拖太久了所以每一次專案小組都在前行提要你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4917.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4926.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
我先說明一下我的一些問題因為每一次專案小組都在前進提要都在講說之前發生這個案子是怎樣怎樣怎樣為什麼 因為是在拖太久 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4927.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4945.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
所以這個又浪費了非常多的時間然後每一次專案小組跟專案小組中間又隔非常久你看上一次是5月7號後來就排了9月26號5月7號之前又更是新北市政府是半年前就提報內政部半年之後才安排專案小組這其實都是浪費時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4946.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4966.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
然後再來就是一次專協組所提出來的結論我看到也是覺得非常的 我不太能接受因為他說叫新北市政府再提供有一些路段牌圍區段徵收的原則到底是什麼然後他說叫新北市政府去調查那個福州當地的現況以及違章工廠使用情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4966.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4995.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
這些東西這些資料早就有了結果你隔了這麼久開的專案小組還叫人家在做早就做的事情這就把這個都市計畫的審議變成一種作文比賽感覺好像就沒有很想要這個都市計畫通過所以我就是在這邊請院長關心請部長關心我現在還沒講完請院長關心請部長關心這個拖很久是我們地方的期待趕快設定一個階段性的目標我們希望明年中的時候把它送出大會 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4995.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5012.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
然後你每一次會的中間的間隔短一點然後不要一直前情回顧然後也不會不要一直要求地方作文比賽那這是我們地方期待我知道院長過去也是也做過立委也是民進黨有出生我們都接地氣 懂民心部長也是 不知道可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5013.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5013.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
院長可以嗎可以嗎 院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5043.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5050.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
就是明年中我們設定一個階段性的目標嘛我們是有階段性的目標在往前推動沒有錯阿盡量啦好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5051.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5076.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
你現在就唸資料而已啊你也沒有了解我們的案子啊你也沒去開會啊但是你有剛有提到污水下水道的部分啊我也要跟你講污水下水道是因為要經過區段徵收因為污水下水道要經過一些公有土地嘛那邊就卡住了嘛經過區段徵收重劃之後就可以興建金北市政府在10月1號的時候已經提送了這個整個設計報告因為我還有其他議題你在那邊唸資料就等於有點浪費我的時間沒有我已經跟你講我們現在的實際進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5078.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5081.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
我們可以請內政部把這個開會的時間把它弄得緊密一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5108.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5108.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
請你下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5136.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5160.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
好謝謝院長接下來齁我想跟請教一下剛剛國防部發布了一個非常重要的一個話題就是10月10號的時候中共要射火箭這個事情你知道嗎他現在已經發布國防部已經發布了這個很長一段階段他都在台灣的不是啦我問你剛剛的事情啦剛剛發布了啦說已經要射火箭要經過會通過台灣啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5163.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5190.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
這可能是不是之前講的國安單位掌握的聯合利劍B當時就已經說了可能會發射中程導彈沒有錯我希望他的演習是針對他自己所瑕有效範圍內做他自己軍事的演練對這種防害到區域安全印太地區安全跟穩定的動作希望中國能夠有所節制你在這邊呼籲他節制他就會節制嗎不會所以你的因應作為是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5191.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5216.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
我們做好自己的準備什麼啊就是所有的過程我們要請軍方單位能夠詳細的瞭解甚至監控瞭解不會對人民造成任何的威脅因為有關於中共聯合利劍逼這個計畫已經講了兩三天了那你現在是說要請國防部瞭解我記得事先都沒有掌握狀況嗎一直有瞭解一直有瞭解那你現在掌握的狀況是怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5218.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5247.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
很多事情我不便在這裏說不便中 那我們因應作為可以說嗎因應作為就是就以前現在這個不只是聯合利建B他過去有很多的演練啊我們都持續在了解當然是這樣 院長我現在是針對非常具體的問題在問你我現在針對非常具體的問題在問你那你告訴我SOP現在我們要做什麼然後全國台灣民眾要注意什麼那政府的作為是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5247.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5249.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
民眾想要知道因為軍演這個事情是很嚴重的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5266.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5268.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
國安部發布這個訊息就是向國人表達我們對所有的狀況都非常的掌握清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5294.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5321.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
我說說在國慶當中我們辦好國內的國慶我們的因應作為就是他發射他的導彈然後我們來辦我們的國慶這兩個不同的事情嘛他發射他導彈我也要吃飯啊我今天也來總質詢啊我們等一下該怎樣待怎樣這是一回事嘛我現在講的是針對他發射導彈我們的因應作為是什麼我們的因應作為不是辦國慶國慶是本來我們就要做的事因應作為是什麼當天是國慶所以我們也一定提高我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5322.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5322.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
聽我講還知道的 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5345.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5345.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
發言委員：完整會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5368.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5395.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
也有可能是目前沒有因應作為 你要去開會討論也有可能那總統府會不會召開國安會議 你應該也不曉得嘛 對不對總統要不要召開國安會議 總統自會有他的判斷即使不召開形式上的國安會議 在國慶這一個階段當中對國家安全的回顧一定是提高警告那院長 那我就來問一個 您可能會知道東西的因為你禮拜五中午的時候要跟韓院長吃和解飯嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5396.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5397.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
議員長 您期待達到什麼效果? |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5420.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5433.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
我們期待國家繼續往前走預算能夠互相瞭解因為剛剛我聽你跟廖謙祥的答詢你覺得現在卡在立法院不了解您的立場對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5435.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5463.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
是嗎?你剛剛是認為都是立法院的錯嗎?你都認為這是立法院的錯那在和解犯的時候你會這樣子教訓立法院嗎?說都是你們不了解我們啦還有立法院怎麼可以隨便通過法律呢?叫我們來執行你們的預算呢?你會這樣教訓?像剛剛這樣子去教訓那個副總召還是教訓那個韓院長嗎?怎麼會用教訓?那你會用什麼方式跟他溝通?怎麼會用教訓?那會用什麼方式溝通?我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5464.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5468.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
院長你會講到說 哎呀治水預算一刻不能等啊 所以你們總預算趕快復違啊 你會講出這種話嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5487.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5515.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
我心裡這麼想但是我認為 心裡這麼想現在的治水預算因為颱風風災所造成的一些災害要重建的治水預算不是早就在你的手裡了嗎這不是去年通過的嗎是今年度的對 今年度嘛所以一顆不能等講的是明年是不是所以你跟大家講一顆不能等講的是明年是不是明年的預算一顆不能等那這樣啦 院長一顆不能等以後治水預算都不要送來立法院了啦你直接行政院簽一簽馬上通過了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5516.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5527.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
民主國家行政院長竟然會講出這種獨裁的話 我也是非常訝異民主國家行政院長竟然會講出這種獨裁的話 我也是非常訝異民主國家行政院長竟然會講出這種獨裁的話 我也是非常訝異民主國家行政院長竟然會講出這種獨裁的話 我也是非常訝異 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5541.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5550.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
明天總計算省到幾月幾號當然希望今年度能夠完成啊今年度是不是到12月31號對嘛所以現在你一直講一刻不能等好像是現在立刻要通過一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5554.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5565.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
到12月30號你跟大家講說明年的治水預算一刻不能等請大家這一天通過我贊成但是現在還有三個月的時間你說一刻不能等所以這個就是話術在電視上這樣講話說明年的治水預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5574.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5600.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
今年治水預算早就在你手上了嘛現在大家省的是明年的嘛那你說一刻不能等好像現在就要通過一樣今年12月31號通過就可以嘛院長我跟你講既然啦要和解飯要吃飯大家不要吵架嘛你講出這種治水預算一刻不能等大家就生氣了這個吃飯打不到效果我只願我那個和解飯因為我沒辦法去吃啦我是建議說建議有些話不要講好然後再來齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5604.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5605.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
蔣委員沒有辦法溝通我講的是明年度550億 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5622.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5644.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
現在搞得好像是原住民在擋治水預算但是我的原住民朋友啊他說這個淨法補償條例從3萬到6萬這個東西這個不是恩己欸這不是福利欸這個是應該給原住民的補償欸要不然這樣子啊你讓他土地使用嘛讓他可以開發他賺到的錢絕對超過一年6萬塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5645.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5670.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
可是國家叫他不要開發因為水土保持要給他補償變成一種恩惠政府已經對你們很好了啦你不要吵啦包括那個原住民主委講說原住民的預算今年已經比去年多變了12%哇賽要原住民感恩戴德喔把他們當作什麼啊重點是這是補償這是正義這個不是恩己不是恩惠我希望原住民主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5674.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5675.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
謝謝葉委員謝謝卓院長下一位請黃仁委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5699 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5702.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
黃偉豪我們先看一下這三張影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5722.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5741.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
這是我們蔡英文包含賴清的總統還有我們卓院長這是你們戳穿了這個衣服就表示你認同我們在台灣原住民是一家人是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5743.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5767.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
我上次好像跟委員說過你看你的著裝的衣服有多帥我說原住民朋友曾經是臺灣這塊土地上唯一的主人那現在我們所有的人民都是臺灣這個國家共同的主人院長你看一下沒錯原住民的榮耀對不對你認同嘛那既然認同我們區區的一個預算而且不是違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5769.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5790.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
通過是經過了72位跨黨派而且是三讀通過是憲法保障那既然這樣的話行政院也應該尊重我們區區的一個禁法補償的這一些預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5791.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5806.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
那當然你們現在又有認為要補充或者是園民會要從這個原住民的綜合發展基金要挪用如果挪用的話我們原住民的發展基金已經破產 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5807.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5834.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
沒有任何再提供給我們全國國人包含他的福利的這些基金包含貸款基金以上的各項的福利基金已經沒有錢來對我們原住民的國人怎麼交代所以現在三兆兩千多億的預算我們去這個14億為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5837.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5854.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
你們著穿了這個衣服也彰顯了對世界對國際認同我們台灣的原住民就是主人那既然這樣的話我們待會我們要討論的是福利政策教育土地 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5855.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5869.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
那禁法補償是國人最關心我們當然也感謝過去的立法委員包含現任的立法委員的努力當然我也要對我們國人要交代為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5870.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5899.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
因為現在很多國人包含原住民在誤解誤會說我們在擋這個總預算不是是退回總預算重新檢討再把我們的預算是不是可以編列出來因為原住民事務裡面不是那麼煩雜只是追求了一個對原住民的尊重對原住民的尊重今天我們禁法補償既然你們禁止開法 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5900.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5906.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
委員對原住民朋友的關心我們當然非常清楚我當然比不上你 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5928.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5955.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
但是我們會透過各種的機會去了解原住民朋友的文化需求生活我們希望大家融為一體這絕對也請委員不用懷疑開國以來到現在我們不是一個實用品也不是試用品我們是一個核心的價值原住民在台灣這一塊土地我們站起來在歷史角度我們絕對跟國際來發聲 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5958.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5979.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
因為我們是真正的台灣主人可是我們國家有沒有真正對原住民的角度一旦選舉總統選舉穿著原住民的衣服我是原住民的孩子但是選舉之後呢背後裡面沒有真正的給原住民的尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5979.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5984.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
我跟委員報告歷年來有人民會成立以來今年的預算是最多的一次我們還編了28.16億 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6009.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6009.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
金華補償 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6029.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6053.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
那還不夠補還不夠給就是如果是一公頃要一公頃是6萬還不夠給的話當然我們就按歷年來的往歷循例由基金來做這個基金裡面是不能挪用的嘛這是違法的嘛那如果說到時候再挪用已經106年106年112年已經挪用到多少67億 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6055.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6079.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
你再用挪用14億在補貼這個金髮補償的時候是已經破產而且是違法如果基金他已經不過用了那我想我們會請求會拜託主席總書是不是再給他再挹注進來讓這個基金能夠繼續的維持我希望依法行政 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6081.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6106.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
我希望尊重我們立法院三讀通過這樣的議題行政院應該要尊重我們在過去裡面民進黨他們所提案的三讀通過的不就是依法行政不是通過了預算來追加甚至在這個預算法第79條可以追加預算就是依法行政就好了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6107.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6134.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
沒有違法也不會減少3兆2000多億的預算只是把裡面用在這個預算裡面應該尊重立法院的三度通過這才是一個真正尊重原住民我們並沒有違法報告委員您所提的就是一個整個預算的程序無論是年度預算或是追加預算您所提的剛剛所談的都是一個程序的問題我所在意的也是程序的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6135.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6164.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
未來競發補償怎麼處理我現在心中沒有定案但是如果多倫就循預算程序來處理不可以談從2000年以後我們成立了多少對原住民朋友生活融在一起的各種政策跟部會當然希望加強所以這件事情是黨派的問題你這個說詞我希望你加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6165.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6192.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
這件問題不是黨派的問題是原則性的問題如果明年增加到更多那行政院也要再照編嗎不會吧所以今年也應該循序這種方式來協調才對我很願意跟大家談現在很多國人都誤會退回預算不是在黨預算好不好 麻煩你重視我們每一個委員所提出來的不是討伐 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6192.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6216.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
是講道理我們今天講道理我們今天區區的一個14億但是對原住民的來講他是一個很大很大的一個福利政策因為這就是一個補償他們的缺失那這個不就是一個照顧國人的角色你穿著這個衣服不就是對我們原住民是肯定 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6217.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6219.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
委員一直在責怪我們行政院為什麼不尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6238.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6239.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
另外就是在過去蔡英文承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6264.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6290.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
在原住民的自治法原住民的土地法及海域法原住民的語言及發展原住民的語言發展法2017年公布原住民的自治及原住民的土地及海域尚未送到立法院但是我已經在本院本席已經在第1個會期已經提送我也希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6290.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6318.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
行政院裡面有自己的版本土地法跟海域法那另外我現在講的是內政部長我們講的是國土計劃法現在全國紛紛擾擾而且在對你們國土計劃法的不諒解很多縣市為什麼不送審到我們立法院給內政部原因在哪裡在送審的話我們土地法就判死了 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6319.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6346.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
看是什麼把所有的地方的農地變為國有國一國二國三農一農二農三的限制因地制宜沒有在想你們只是希望你們在執行這個任務要完成可是有沒有想到各縣市裡面在都市發展的前提之下都沒有真正的考量因地制宜的角色第一個我想問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6349.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6369.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
國土計劃法對原住民的土地產生了什麼樣的影響以下有6個問題要就教院長包含內政部長包含人民會主委第一個原住民傳統領域及傳統海域問題如何解決第二國土計劃法及原住民的傳統領域劃分 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6372.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6395.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
的問題如何解決．第3國土功能分區．劃設後原住民土地還能調整嗎．第4國土計劃法通過後．原住民的土地是否．無法自治．第5國土功能分區．分裂．可以蓋原住民傳統文化建築．可以嗎．第6 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6397.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6415.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
國土計劃會影響既有照領補助以禁法補償的資格請問你有沒有想到這6點你一下跳躍了我們延期法延期法憲法保障也就是你們民進黨總統陳水扁當時認同我們原住民的延期法 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6416.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6432.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
所以才有今天我們保障我們原住民的土地包含傳統領域但是你現在用國土計畫跳過了我們原住民的土地法還有海域法請問你有什麼樣對我們全國國人交代請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6434.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6449.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
國土計畫法我跟委員報告其實這個法對原住民是有利的為什麼講呢因為你國土計畫法通過之後有一些原住民的土地管理規則會讓我們的土地等一下我請部長內政部長先回答我這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6451.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6474.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
謝謝委員的指教我想我的想法跟原民會主委非常的相像我們的國土計劃法如果能夠順利通過的話對於原住民現在的土地保障反而會更多元以現在原住民的朋友們最關心的就是說在原住民的聚落保留地裡面這個房子的合法化的問題我想黃委員非常的清楚現在大概有14萬棟全台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6476.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6495.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
我希望我希望完成的要保障原住民的土地法但是我希望你們也提出你們行政院版的第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6496.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6496.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
為什麽? |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6519.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6549.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
因為你們沒有周遣的考量所以你不要因為你們要去執法執行然後罔顧民意這些要多聽聽各縣市的聲音當初在選舉的時候你們已經 原民會 內政部已經在廣外的來宣達說我們要在土地法裡面要趕快上路但是這幾個月來你看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6550.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6562.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
你看看全國的鄉親對政府的隱憂你們到底有沒有聽聽老百姓的聲音希望國土計畫法 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6562.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6581.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
延後而且我們認同我們已經有提案希望展延6年把所有的土地法而且要因地制宜考量他們的生計跟土地的開發包含地方的發展還有產業你們都要考量可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6582.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6584.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
你們可以行密監禁 行密監禁但是以大體來講的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6599.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6619.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
應該要展延6年嘛所以針對原住民的話你們許密限制嘛沒有叫你中斷阿沒有叫你中斷阿原住民本來是要保障的嘛但是其他的議題你們要真正的要考量地方的發展我們一定保障原住民的部分好 謝謝黃委員 謝謝卓院長下一位請紐許廷委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6639.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6647.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
好,謝謝主席,行政院長內政部長有請來請院長還有內政部長備詢委員好院長早安我們就直接進入主題今天時間比較短,15分鐘而已我想請問一下,您會親自主持行政院大部分的院會對不對? |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6670.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6686.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
這個會找各地的縣市政府一起開會對不對那桃園市政府其實很常在行政院院會的時候去提到針對倉儲跟危險物品的納管談消防的議題請問院長知不知道背後的原因跟故事是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6687.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6700.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
之前有發生過大火的事件大家認為很需要就一個管制品必須要做一個有效的一個安全上的維護那機場大火院長有印象嗎競鵬競鵬是工廠的還有勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6704.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6706.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
是2022年3月10號的美孚倉儲大火 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6721.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6735.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
這把大火是桃園人心中永遠的痛因為它帶來的公害跟後面的損失是不計其數的不只是美孚的大火2022年4天過後3月14號在陽梅的家樂福同樣也是倉儲 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6737.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6766.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
發生了大火的事件大火的事件倉儲大火也不只是發生在桃園到2023年8月1號去年的時候這個林口的PC Home它一樣是倉儲的大火每一次這個火災的規模都很大救災的成本也非常高那證明了倉儲是火災的熱點是公害的溫床更是消防人員救災的巨大負擔院長跟部長應該不會反對這樣的說法這幾把大火應該我講了大家就有印象對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6767.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6782.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
同意對不對好這個院長可能會想說這個突然之間在這邊提兩年前發生的美孚大火為什麼要就案重提啊這我要跟院長講講故事啊院長你知不知道或部長知不知道美孚大火的公害影響多少人 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6785.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6806.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
對相當的多因為他燃燒的這個肉類他燃燒的時間非常的長他影響的人數數萬人甚至到十萬人之普因為那個臭味基本上北桃園的市民都聞到了部長曾經聞過火場的味道嗎我知道我有去過那個其實是蠻可怕的所以火災不只是消防人員的損傷而已他其實也是公害的來源 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6808.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6831.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
今天不只是這個救災的問題我要跟院長跟部長講的是有一小群人他們叫美孚大火公害自救會因為這場大火發生之後後來我們發現政府其實沒有什麼樣的法源依據去裁罰相關的廠商公害造成的損失到最後由市民自行承擔有一小群人看不過去只好抱團自救自己組了自救會 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6832.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6852.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
然後去跟美孚這個廠商打官司如果看來這叫做小蝦米對大鯨魚小市民站大財團他們希望透過市民站出來的力量一方面他們要為自己討一口公道討一點公道二方面更重要的是我曾經在擔任議員的時候我曾經進行協助的時候他們就拜託我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6854.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6874.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
希望透過他們站出來打官司的這個行為希望讓各級政府重視這樣子倉促的大火悲劇不能再重演那個時候我是桃園市的議員後來我跟順利他也在我們同一個選區在我們蘆竹南崁地區我現在是桃園第一選區的選區民意代表受人之托、中人之勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6875.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6875.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
是的 這個身為民意代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6892.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6895.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
解決問題對不對所以這個方向目前這樣回答本席還算是非常滿意的我們希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6912.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6940.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
這樣子的大火悲劇不重演政府能夠重視並且進行制度上的調整今天是內政組的質詢所以我們馬上立法院也正在排審消防法所以我們還是回到救災的角度來討論這樣的事情回到防災救災的主軸請問院長部長要支援也可以我剛剛有講桃園的兩個大火一個是美孚一個是家樂福家樂福的大火救災的時間多久動員了多少資源兩位有概念嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6941.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6957.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
抱歉我不清楚我知道非常多但是您非常關心有關消防人員或者是附近居民的安全我們也都非常的清楚好吧誠實也是上冊但我會希望有一個這個數字好我就把數字公布給兩位看就在時間40個小時20分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6960.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6961.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
那美孚呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6975.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7002.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
要不要估一下這樣子的數字幾天吧我記得七天主要是悶燒悶燒對不對我告訴兩位不止七天啦美孚大火救災啦就實際上在壓制火勢的時間161個小時差不多是七天左右可是因為悶燒因為復燃因為他的倉儲的結構讓救災的難度提升所以這復燃悶燒變得大家束手無策後來出動了這個大鋼牙這些相關的機具 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7003.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7031.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
各式各樣的車次576輛次整個悶燒的時間21天超過500個小時一場火災動員的消防人力2163人次這數字應該滿驚人的吧 院長請問這個消防弟兄辛苦不辛苦非常辛苦我們應不應該從制度跟等等的角度去避免這樣的事情再次發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7033.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7036.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
如果從源頭能夠來避免這個事情就會減少他們的勤務量 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7037.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7065.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
好 那麼這兩場倉儲大火為什麼這麼的勞民傷財我們就直接講因為倉儲的火載量這我曾經在內政委員會質詢的時候消防組長答得非常快所謂的火載量就是單位面積可燃物完全燃燒的時候產生的熱能就是它易不易燃它容不容易引起火災倉儲的易燃的火載量不只不低於工廠甚至高於工廠甚多有四倍五倍不止 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7065.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7092.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
所以剛剛開頭的時候我跟兩位在在在質詢的時候兩位第一個想到的火災想到的是桃園的進棚工業大火想到的是屏東的名陽大火這是工廠對不對但是倉儲的易燃的性質跟燃燒的強度其實是不低於這樣工廠的一個狀況那院長請問現在倉儲的部分存放物流倉庫冷鏈倉庫等等他們有沒有在消防的裡面被正式的納管 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7093.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7121.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
我們曾經在院會裡面正式報告也討論過這一個事情所以我們也對於這個管制的方式有請內政部、消防署能夠跟地方政府也要加強的合作配合來處理這個事情你這樣講說加強配合然後應該要做對我們都知道應該要做嘛剛剛我講了不管是基於為這個小市民來做代言或者是從救災人力的節省跟預防的角度來說我們這邊都有非常好的共識對不對就是我們應該要做這件事情但現在做了沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7122.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7122.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
現在清不清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7137.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7154.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
我可不可以補充一下跟委員報告一下就消防員救災的角度來看在那個工廠管理輔導法以及我們消防法裡面要注意的是有關他這個工廠在儲存這些物資的時候是否有確實申報尤其我們有關於這個危險物質的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7154.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7172.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
這一點我們從消防署的角度上面已經有加強也就是說出去救災的消防人員他們出去救災的時候馬上就知道說他的工廠裡面到底儲放什麼樣的物質這是最重要的一點再來一點就是說第一個倉儲跟工廠的所在地或是公司的所在地有時候是距離比較遙遠 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7173.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7188.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
所以他的防火或者他的滅火措施被忽略掉那這一點我們會從工廠管理輔導法跟我們消防法一起來補足會跟縣市政府來努力來改善現在我們認為會發生比較大的火警甚至造成比較大的傷亡的部分做改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7188.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7210.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
回答得不錯但差了點勇氣其實我希望從院長裡面就直面問題就以現行的機制來講其實這個納管也好申報也好都還有若干的改進之處其實是不夠的包含我們現在的倉儲其實定位是不明確的我跟你講工廠很明確工廠有一套所謂剛剛部長也講了叫做工廠管理輔導法裡面有消防的設備配置等等一些配套措施但是倉儲 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7211.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7228.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
有在工廠管理輔導法裡面嗎?其實是沒有的嘛對不對?那麼以我們目前現在消防法的規範：也沒有任何的條文去提到倉儲的部分應該要怎麼處理不過報告委員我們的消防署呢非常的認真就是說只要他有申報的話呢有任何火災的狀況呢站在我們的立場一定都會是遲緣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7230.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7250.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
當然是遲緣我們現在講的是我心裡總是看到火災的時候我總是感念消防弟兄的付出甚至看到他們犧牲的時候我是非常傷痛的但是我們之所以去強調這個事情就是防災要重於救災我們如果前期的配套措施做得好前期的制度設計的是好的預防於前其實就是幫第一線要進去打火的弟兄減輕負擔可是現行的規制裡面倉儲 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7254.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7280.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
也好這個部分的工廠甚至在申報的部分他其實是不夠確實的我現在看到行政院提出的消防法的版本裡面這個本席當然就有提自己的版本原因是什麼呢因為在行政院消防法的兩個問題第一個倉儲依然是被一個定位不明確的角度針對工廠他當然做了若干的修正針對消防員的權益也做了若干的努力這些本席都看在眼裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7280.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7305.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
但是倉儲還是被漏掉了那本期的選區發生這麼重要的事情桃園市政府也在院會裡面屢次提及這件事情的重要但我在消防行政院院版的消防法裡面並沒有看到相關條文的修正所以我今天一定要用總諮詢的時間來跟院長跟部長做釐清原因就在這個地方本期提出的意見來就教於這個兩位這個倉儲當然應該要納管本期的主張是 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7307.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7308.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
我為什麼要把一定規模以上的倉庫來做納入呢當然是因為先異後難嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7327.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7343.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
規模大的它造成的影響災損等等的強度是比較高的那我甚至在裡面也有一定的授權條款就是說哪一些倉庫哪一些類型可以讓中央主管機關來擬定這樣子我們就可以針對不同型態的比如你放倉儲裡面存放的東西其實五花八門啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7343.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7358.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
他存的是易燃的油阿化學品阿這個紡織的棉布阿紙尿褲阿紙類品比如說林口PC Home的倉儲袋裡面都是衛生紙對不對那燒起來也是一發不可收拾那不能因為他是倉儲而不是工廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7359.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7378.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
然後就在這個地方被漏掉本期覺得這是非常奇怪的所以在我們的版本裡面就提要備制並且申報這我講什麼叫備制什麼叫申報也是第二個問題就是我們在行政院目前消防法的版本裡面我們只看到了備制備制的意思就是我這個工廠的負責人我只要準備好說我裡面有些什麼就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7378.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7401.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
但是我的準備不見得要讓政府知道啊我的備制萬一放在工廠的抽屜裡面大火燒起來他就在火場裡面的時候那備制變成這個流於表面我是覺得滿可惜的所以本席在這邊是主張啊不只是要備制也應該要申報對不對你要讓內政部讓消防弟兄非常清楚的了解可能發生火警的地方他的狀態是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7402.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7402.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7432.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7435.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
公共安全及職業安全衛生的危害僅以場所管制 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7449.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7472.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
並期望業者主動申報顯緣木求魚這就是我想法條有若干缺失可以改善的地方因為你只是期待他申報他不申報的時候到時候消防員就殉職了我們非常非常不希望看到這樣子的悲劇繼續重演這個沒有預防於前造成的後果我想是難以承載的輕叫做經濟損失 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7473.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7498.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
中呢叫做公害平傳啦重的話他會出人命犧牲消防弟兄所以我希望在消防法修法的過程之中行政院可以更開放的態度接納不同的意見我剛剛聽總質詢這樣一路談下來其實我們的溝通是非常順暢的這個部長跟院長也用非常開放的心態接受了倉儲納管這樣子的一個概念這樣的概念我們在修法的時候我們可以一樣用這樣子的心態來討論嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7499.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7524.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
也謝謝委員希望能夠支持消防法趕快刪讀通過我們當然支持前面有一段沒有修就是因為我們這很重要的版本還沒有進來但進來之後我想我今天講院長我這樣目前為止講都還算很講道理謝謝委員的提醒如果現行送來的修法過程文字當中還不夠周圓我們共同來努力用最高標準的安全部長剛剛有提到雙軌併星所以消防法要修公服法也要修納進倉儲 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7527.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7529.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
納進倉儲這是確定是我們行政院接下來推動的方向嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7531.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7532.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
時間跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7566.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7572.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
好,謝謝牛委員,也謝謝卓院長發言會休息10分鐘,休息之後繼續進行質詢,現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
8249.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
8277.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
國安委員會現在繼續開會 請王委員育敏質詢謝謝主席 我們是不是有請卓院長請卓院長備選王委員好 院長好 院長請問你就任到現在有沒有去過阿里山 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
8278.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
8291.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
有一次小火車搭到鐵路不能通的地方有去過嗎有去過那你有跟當地的居民聊過天嗎那天主要是看鐵道修復的狀況所以沒有扣嗎比較沒有 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
8293.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
8314.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
你在你的施政報告裡面有提到說你每天最重要的工作你都是把人放在第一優先對不對我有觀察到你這次的施政報告你試圖帶入比較有溫度的你就是把人到每一個場域你看到的人的感受都放進去基本上我非常肯定這一點因為執政其實就是要為人民服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
8316.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
8332.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
接下來我就要請教你這次的國土計劃法就是他明年4月要上路的這件事情其實很多的農民特別是在農業縣農民都非常的焦慮他們的焦慮感他們的心聲你有感受到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
8333.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8350.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
我們有充分感受到所以我們是請農業部跟內政部積極跟大家來說明是不是有不了解的地方試圖能夠讓大家了解之後這個法是不是能夠順利的推動對我跟部長我跟院長報告到目前為止農民的焦慮沒有解除 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8351.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8363.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
我最近才上到阿里山山上跟山上的農民在晚上的時間大家坐下來聊天我認真的聽他們的心聲我現在也要把他們的心聲講給院長聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8365.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8381.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
他們非常的焦慮有的人他其實是已經很早就上山去開墾在那邊工作他很擔心這個法通過之後他熱愛的這個土地他以後沒有辦法在那邊工作有的人在那邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8382.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8397.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
主先留給他們的茶農土地但是兄弟分一分之後土地沒有多少了但是我現場很感動的是有一個青農他的兒子大學二年級他也來現場他反映他的心聲他假日他現在在幫他爸爸工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8398.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8398.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
國土計畫法 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8421.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8448.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
大筆一揮說我們這邊是大面積的崩塌但是他說他在那邊幾十年從來沒有崩塌過但是他被化為是這樣的地方然後一直廣告一直宣傳說他是大規模崩塌地人家都嚇得不敢來阿里山這樣一個地方是國際觀光著名的地標我們都希望爭取國際觀光客來可以上到阿里山阿里山的產業阿里山的高山茶我不曉得院長有沒有喝過應該有吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8449.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8466.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
非常好 國際馳名 國人也非常熱愛他現在還有阿里山的咖啡你有喝過嗎 有 有喝過嗎 量太少了對 量太少所以 農民他們的焦慮是他們想要在這片土地他們在山上有的很久了他們想要認真的繼續工作繼續經營繼續把 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8470.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8470.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
國土計劃法 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8493.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8509.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
但是這一點即使嘉義縣政府開過了說明會嘉義縣政府也已經把這個分區圖送給中央了但是當地你可以看到所有的農民山上的農民一片的焦慮感問題通通都沒有解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8511.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8530.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
在這樣的情況底下我們要怎麼上路請問一下部長這樣要怎麼上路報告委員我跟您補充一下第一個農一農二的劃法跟現在的區域計劃法完全一模一樣然後再加上一個阿里山如果現在是一個觀光風景區的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8531.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8558.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
嘉義縣政府跟我們討論過我們也許可以按照一個阿里山鄉鄉村地區整體規劃也就是把它變成是個鄉階計劃法的方式來推動剛剛你講的民宿也好或是有關阿里山的這些小商店家都把卡蘭農說在裡面變成是個很好的一個地標來發展而不是外界所說的你化成國土計劃法就不能用然後農地都完全不能繼承是完全相反的我想有些人呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8559.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8573.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
信息不太明確所以我們很願意再去阿里山鄉跟他們溝通我要跟你說的是農民當天就跟我反映他說縣政府這個答應他們就是說不會化成國一結果送上來你看這張圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8576.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8589.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
這張圖整個阿里山地區國藝就是深綠色這一片幾乎通通都是那天晚上鄉親他們那麼焦慮的座談就是政府嘴巴答應我的跟實質送出來的其實是不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8590.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8606.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
多數地方都被劃為國一了他們知道的情況是這樣他們自己也會去打聽他說原來答應我這個土地不會是國一的也都變成國一了他說不會結果通通劃成國一而且在你們現在的辦法裡面你知道你們的土是怎麼劃出來的嗎你們是用套土 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8608.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8631.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
鄉親還告訴我的是說都沒有來實際的場勘沒有一個實際找專業人士來探勘就說我的土地說是國一就是國一而且他說縣府就是用資料套土嘛你們就是大筆一揮而且不到兩公頃的地方不是國一的也可以畫為國一為了畫起來的圖更好看更完整 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8632.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8655.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
我要告訴部長我要告訴院長的是說財產涉及到每一個人民他最在乎的事情但這些事情我們絕對不可以便宜行事也不可以非常粗糙粗暴的就直接套土的方式然後就判定他的土地是屬於什麼農民是可以被溝通的也是可以被說服的 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8656.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8680.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
那我很感動的是他們是熱愛那個地方想要好好經營他不是想要去徒利變賣土地什麼的國益這邊很多的農民他們的情況他們是想要好好留在原地耕作好好保護這塊土地他們也知道水保的重要但是他說可不可以給我們一條路在兼顧保育水保跟他們的產業發展之間 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8681.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8684.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
給他們一個路可以走可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8696.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8722.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
沒有到現場會刊也表示說功能分區圖送上來的時候我們還沒有完全審查完成審查作業的情況之下如果我們農民有這些意見我們會接到這個意見馬上要去進行就是說是不是真的是國土保育需要的如果你沒有隨便亂畫我們也不希望用這種比較粗糙的方式處理功能分區圖所以我剛有跟委員報告現在縣政府跟我們在處理有關的阿里山鄉的鄉村地區的整體作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8723.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8738.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
就是要回復剛剛所說的這些阿里山的居民們他們對這方面的疑慮那我們願意的很誠懇來回答這個問題因為我們相信在阿里山鄉的這些朋友們他們不是為了炒作農地也不是財團炒作都是祖先留下來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8738.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8766.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
而且他們更了解現場的狀況如果他願意把現場的狀況告訴我們讓我們來套疊現在我們所知道的地質上的變化如果沒有真正是屬於潛在危險區或是環境敏感區的話他不應該用這樣比較粗糙的方式全部一塊就把它劃進去那部長我就問你你這個補救措施是要怎麼個做法因為我到9月份去到現場的時候根本也沒有這樣的座談也沒有這樣的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8767.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8782.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
他們就告訴我,就是縣府已經把功能分區土送上來,他們就是國宜,這是送上來的焦慮我跟委員報告,在董事群開始的第一天,到現在很多委員都關心過國土計畫法這個事情那第一天蔡議員也提過這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8785.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8808.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
所以我特別去了解現在嘉義縣政府在辦理一個剛剛部長說的阿里山鄉村地區整體規劃作業目前縣政府嘉義縣政府在按照各地的需求應該是有計劃在這裡做一個各地因地制宜的使用的管制規則況且功能圖送上來之後內政部還要做第二次的審查我覺得這個我們會更嚴謹的進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8811.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8837.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
對現在你們最大的問題是其實細膩度是完全不夠的因為急著明年的4月要上路包括其實這個部長你們自己該完成的執法你們現在還有8項只是完成預告都還沒有經過你們的法規會的審議預告就是表示已經經過我們法規會審議只有一項是屬於這個土地管制上面需要做罰則的部分我認為罰則的部分盡量往後延所以只有一項還沒有處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8837.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8865.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
所以你這個還沒有都完成你的程序啊公告需要長達60天以上的時間是啊所以你們現在這個執法都還沒有正式完成所有的公告之前就急著上路我要問一個問題是到目前為止22個縣市首長裡面有哪幾位首長是支持國土計劃法在明年4月如期上路我們現在送到內政部來的是一共有13個縣市政府是啊對 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8866.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8886.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
所以沒有送上來的送上來就代表他認同嗎?其實包括嘉義縣的翁章良縣長他真的認同嗎?他之前他在上半年的時候他曾經有發表一個談話他希望國土計畫法要延期上路他送上來是送上來了但是你真的認為送上來的縣市首長 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8886.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8914.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
他們希望這個國土計畫把明年如期上戶我想翁縣長他的本意是希望說我們有完整的配套措施那這個完整的配套措施現在就還沒有啊 除了內政部跟農業部都要能夠一起來進行那這一點我們會努力來改進所以我覺得這件事情真的可以再好好的去跟鄉親溝通院長我要告訴你的就是說這個人真的是很重要就是像嘉義縣這樣的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8915.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8928.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
他多數其實就是被劃在國土保育區但是如果說因為這樣子他就沒有辦法生計產業無法發展我覺得這樣也是不對的我們應該可以在保育跟生計跟產業發展之間 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8930.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8930.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
委員： |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8949.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8949.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
國家必須有 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8968.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8968.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8991.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8991.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
我希望這個法要暫緩實施先溝通再上路 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
9013.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
9038.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
第2個是不是可以請部長你到第一線去聽聽鄉親真正的意見到目前為止我想你得到的都是間接式的傳達上來到目前為止你有到第一線去開過任何一場公聽會真的聽到農民第一線的心聲嗎我們大概是跟一些團體然後跟縣市政府一起開會在中部地區有開過有沒有跟農民面對面的農會有 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
9042.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
9056.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
我真的強烈建議部長你可以到第一線去你聽到的就會是最真實的聲音如果你願意到嘉義縣來的話本席也願意陪你一起來聽這些農民的聲音你看你的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
9057.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
9057.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
是的 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
9074.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
9100.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
那接下來呢我要再問一個是關於這個一樣是國土的問題但是是不一樣的情景我們現在在推動這個光電是如火如土但是一方面我們重視國土保育但是對於光電業者呢我們其實是毫不設防他們好像想怎麼蓋愛怎麼蓋通通都沒有問題甚至這個部長你是不是有Quota的壓力你連你的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
9102.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9119.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
你自己所掌管的國家公園你一開始都還要去大量鋪設這個光電板是不是報告委員這個完全錯誤第一個我們現在國家公園有管理中心就是在國家公園裡面但是他們在重建或是建造的過程當中他們用的是燃油發電機 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9120.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9142.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
那這些對於國家公園來講我們要求的是碳排所以我要求國家公園的管理中心自己本身的房舍或者是民宿的那些地方未來他們就是要用太陽能發電減少到處設立一些電線桿要從我們的台灣的平地上面輸送電到上面去只是這樣而已沒有其他的任何計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9145.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9160.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
我們7、8個國家公園所產生的碳排量總共就3000多噸而已所以其實並不多我想外界做太擴大的解釋對於未來我們在國家公園的管理上反而是很大的困擾因為你們這樣子連環團都跳出來講話沒有沒有環團是支持我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9164.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9182.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
好所以這個部分我希望這個要有把關的機制另外一個我要跟院長也是人民要跟院長請命這個在嘉愛縣有一個地方叫大埔大埔這個地方我想兩位可能還沒有機會上到這麼遠的地方曾文水庫有部分就是在大埔下 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9182.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9209.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
那大埔的居民現在也是一樣很困擾就是在他們熱愛這片土地上面的光電業者進來了然後不需要經過他們的同意然後這些光電板愛怎麼鋪設就怎麼鋪設愛怎麼蓋就怎麼蓋他蓋到連這個當地的議員議會都做成決議要求光電業者要停工可是有沒有效 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9210.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9230.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
沒有強制力沒有效他繼續施工繼續蓋然後呢這個議員帶著鄉親到現場去抗議到嘉義縣政府去抗議有沒有效沒有效縣長說那就是請光電業者跟這個居民就是多溝通那你知道他蓋到什麼樣的情況嗎這個圖讓這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9233.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9258.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
院長跟部長看一下這是人民的苦就是它的光電板布滿了這個學校跟老人活動中心的旁邊你看到的這個建築物這個建築物裡面就是有在供餐但是老人的食堂然後它旁邊通通都是光電板它不是在屋頂發電它是旁邊布滿了光電板 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9259.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9277.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
居民非常的無力然後抗議然後通通都沒有用那這一個業者呢我想可能他也是仿照這個臺南有個弊案小二甲弊案這個院長應該非常清楚當時他就是規避嘛他就是一塊一塊這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9278.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9291.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
那聽說這案也是就是他就是不同的以為是在自己家屋頂就是蓋光電板所以沒有問題不需要太多審查結果這個化整為領的模式一個一個進來就變成是這樣子一大片 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9292.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9318.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
那這個也沒有環境評估它的光害你可以看到嘛這麼大片它不是在屋頂喔它是在比較低的地方這陽光一照射產生的光害這也沒有辦法管然後現在極端氣候那個產生的熱鬧現在整個的熱氣上來也沒有辦法管請問這個怎麼辦人民怎麼辦人民要跟誰求助地方政府看起來沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9319.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9319.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
國務委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9342.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9360.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
跟各地的地方政府也要合作 針對一些不法那這件看起來他就算不是不法 也是不當的問題那怎麼辦呢這是嚴重的不當啊然後我覺得老百姓真的很苦欸求助縣府也沒有用欸縣議會都已經要求他停工了也約束不了 那我們中央 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9361.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9362.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
中央有哪一個部會可以受理人民的陳情 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9378.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9389.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
我現在是有一個平台這個平台雖然是犯罪的平台不是犯罪阿我說有一個受理犯罪的平台那另外就是說我們也希望地方政府能夠負起責任比如說我那天到台南我就發覺說 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9391.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9391.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
院長我就問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9413.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9438.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
像這樣子的一個情況我看到幾個問題第一個光天夜人他的設置他完全不需要居民的同意以我剛剛給你看的這張圖那個就是看起來很離譜但是他完全不需要當地居民的同意他只要有辦法取得用地他就可以蓋那這個怎麼辦雲林縣縣長我記得他也曾經反映過就是說現在的評估裡面都不需要有居民同意的這一項 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9439.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9465.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
那結果人民就束手無策啊因為不需要經過我們同意啊光電業者只要有辦法取得土地他愛怎麼蓋就怎麼蓋所以我覺得這個部分應該要讓居民有同意權了第二個民生聚落當中學校醫院老人長照中心這附近可以這樣子嗎就是如入無人之境然後鋪滿了光電板嗎這個部分完全沒有去設這個整個光電板面積的上限 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9465.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9493.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
這完全是不符合比例嘛我們當時鼓勵設置光電是在空曠的大範圍的而且不是在農業用地上面的大量鋪設這一種已經是社區式的民宅它還不是在每一個人住家上面的屋頂它不是屋頂啊它是在旁邊的空地上面鋪滿了這樣的一個光電板這樣子可以嗎第三個人民就是沒有求助的管道中央目前為止我看不到任何一個部會可以受理人民的陳情啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9494.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9513.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
經濟部不用講他是跟光電業者一起的他們要共同開發的那還有哪一個部會可以受理人民像這樣子求助無門欸院長我希望你回去之後你是不是可以去研議開會討論一下如果地方還有這種爭議人民求助無門的你應該要指定一個部會指定一個窗口來受理這樣的案件吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9514.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9514.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
這一個案子呢我希望這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9544.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9565.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
部長跟院長真的要好好正式處理剛剛上午我有聽到這個院長在回答委員質詢說其實一塊錢都不能浪費我也很同意但是一塊錢都不能浪費在內政部審理的計畫當中我就看到了這個疑似有圖利的情況這個要好好的嚴查嚴辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9567.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9575.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
我先請教這個部長你的內政部永續提升人行安全計畫你現在總共 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9577.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9602.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
就是送出來的計劃有幾案你知道嗎全國各縣市相當的多但是我們通過的沒有那麼多因為現在只有剩下下半年的時間而已對 送了262案你只通過175案高達27億然後你這個是全國競爭型的你這一個人行安全計劃你是要有急迫性的要優先補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9604.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9609.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
然後卓院長你要建立一個以人為本的交通環境我們就來看接下來這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9610.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9635.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
這個案子呢 這個表格上面這10件的案子當中 有一件喔它是道路改善工程計劃 你們核定了1500萬其他所有的案子都是通學步道 都是國中國小或是人行道的改善其中有一案呢 通過了1500萬 它是道路改善工程計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9636.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9656.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
我讓兩位看一下這個圖他要改善什麼樣的道路呢這個是在嘉義縣水上鄉這個道路呢大家看到這個圖他有一間私人的殯儀館正在興建當中他要改善的這個道路呢旁邊都沒有住家也沒有學校 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9657.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9677.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
然後這個旁邊這個實照圖也沒有商圈更不是都市計畫區之內那這個地方我實地有去看了一下我最近常常在跑家有些我有去看你不要說行人車輛都很少然後就是有一間興建中的私人的殯儀館 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9679.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9708.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
那不知道他的急迫性在哪裡這個是這個是以人為本基本上要有一些行人吧對不對看起來這個是非常偏僻的一個地方然後重點是你們在審查會議的時候審查委員的意見這個兩位請一下現地人車流量低交通量低 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9710.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9735.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
表示說沒什麼人也沒什麼車他說建議考量人行通道的連續性因為看起來他沒有這個不是連續性的行人通道委員更說基於都市計劃區外周邊土地使用非居民的居住地 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9736.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9737.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
最後一個委員這個很關鍵本案似乎是以道路拓寬為主要目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9767.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9783.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
請教院長如果一個案子是以道路拓寬為主要目的當地不是都市計劃區內也不是學校也沒有人行然後有一個興建中的殯儀館這個案子為什麼可以通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9784.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9807.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
報告委員我想您提到的這個部分我們來審查我們來查一下因為計劃審查的過程當中通常我們會委託學者專家那他所提的這個案件送到我們內政部的國土署在審查的過程當中為什麼最後是核定1500萬您剛有提到黨土牆其實在人行道的安全上面黨土牆確實是有必要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9808.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9818.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
但是他如果是以道路拓寬為主要目的的話可能跟你剛所說的是競爭型的計畫完全是不太相關讓我們有時間來查一下再跟委員來報告好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9819.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9845.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
我希望院長可以回答一下 院長你這樣聽完沒有覺得你說一塊錢都不應該浪費吧那一塊錢都不應該去圖利私人的業者那這個案子你這樣子 如果你是審查委員的話聽到審查委員講的這麼多連計畫的名稱跟原來要改善這個人行安全通通都無關他計畫就大剌剌的寫著道路改善工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9846.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9873.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
那這樣的案子夾雜的上來在審查會議當中如果你作為會議主席你會讓這樣的案子過嗎是 謝謝委員 審查委員當然是秉於專業來看交通的設施他也提出很多意見當事者有一定有提出他的需求我想還是請內政部去了解一下審查的過程甚至地方政府為何提出這樣的一個需求他的真正的用意目的到底在哪裡我們要了解之後才讓這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9875.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9904.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
補助能夠有效或是做其他的考慮的執行但是一定要聽聽當事者的地方政府提出這個需求跟理由你不覺得這個當中有很大的弊端的存在嗎怎麼會這麼的奇怪呢其他的案子都很正常改善通學步道我想這個是也是落實你說以人為本嗎真的有人潮的我們才在做這件事嗎但是沒有的為什麼可以送上這樣的一個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9904.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9915.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
而且還通過了那你要不要查院長我問你你要不要去徹查我會請內政部完全充分了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9917.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9945.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
要調查吧要調查要好好的調查吧我在一頁提供你一個資訊參考這一個殯儀館現在在興建當中過去它其實在地方上有一些爭議它是山坡地保育地變更為殯葬用地而且它很巧妙的規避了這一個一萬平方公尺需要還平的規定就9989平方公尺 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9946.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9974.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
那這當中當然還涉及了這個過去這個企業呢他其實曾經停業然後又變成另外一家公司然後過去在另外一家企業的時候有當時時任立委的子女還在裡面擔任董事這個在地方上面大家議論紛紛那我不知道這一件事情跟這一家殯儀館到底有沒有關係但是我們再回放我們去看剛剛給大家看的那個圖就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9976.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
10001.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
這個實景圖就是長這樣子了就是這個可能你們要好好去調查到底這當中有沒有什麼相關聯因為真的是路上就是沒有住家跟商圈沒有行人跟車流那它就不是在都市計畫那它改善的路段為什麼這個是人行安全不懂沒有人在行走的為什麼是改善人行安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
10002.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
10019.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
那我們真的就只有看到一家的私人殯儀館還在興建當中那這當中不曉得有沒有任何的關係所以今天利用總質詢我想因為院長在我也希望把這樣的情況就是讓院長你可以了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
10019.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
10046.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
那你有說過一塊錢都不應該浪費嘛那我認為一塊錢也都不應該去圖利私人如果有圖利的行為這是絕對不允許的因為以剛剛講的這些計劃當中送來的那麼多案子262案只通過175案我不知道這當中還有多少人家是真正要改善人行道 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
10047.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10075.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
行人安全的計畫被排除在外結果你們通過了一件是這種跟這個八竿子打不著的是道路拓寬計畫的案子夾雜在裡面而且經費還高達1500萬這件案子 院長你是不是承諾你真的會好好去調查你讓人民知道真相到底是什麼好不好會請內政部好好去瞭解這個事情瞭解之後馬上向委員說明好 我希望這個院長好好把事情來龍去脈調查清楚我們也不允許這樣的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10076.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10083.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
好,謝謝王委員、謝謝卓院長下一位我們請王世堅委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10121.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10145.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
主席我請卓院長請卓院長備詢副委員好卓院長好辛苦了隔了三個多月我知道這三個多月你應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10146.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10174.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
也對我們行政院的願務應該是策略許多我在開場之前我一樣先送你一項禮物那麼對你做一些期許我要送你一個我們認識台灣我們台灣的拼圖我希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10175.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10201.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
你能夠以大愛大公無私的精神把我們全國全台灣22縣市拼在一起拼在一起我們應該團結和諧互助互愛在古書上面老子有一句話大方無語呀 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10204.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10231.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
真正大的形狀是沒有角落的也就是說我們看待我們自己國家我們不能讓我們國家有任何陰暗的角落最高的政治道德就是應該為我們2300萬人民不分藍綠白不分他的信仰 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10232.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10255.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
那我們要團結在一起這就是你身為最高行政首長你最首要的任務所以我送這個圖案的意義就是祈勉你要忍辱負重 任重道遠 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10267.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10267.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10293.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10320.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
我們這幾天看到的不管是電視、廣播、網路最大的一項我們政府的宣傳現在我們集中在打詐事法通過了我們要一致的打詐可是我看到的成績我實在是很不客氣的講 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10322.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10350.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
政府打詐越打越詐天啊我們前年111年2萬9千件的詐欺金額財產損失73億到去年啊院長去年高達3萬8千件已經增高到88億元今年更慘 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10352.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10373.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
今年尤其是我們宣告了好不容易7月份通過了打詐專法結果呢打詐專法通過以後這些詐騙集團集體的向我們政府公權力挑釁宣戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10375.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10401.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
今年7月打在中法通過以後今年7月光是詐騙金額高達110億不打緊8月更高又提升27億137億天啊光是喔光是今年7月一個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10402.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10416.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
就抵去年一整年當然也贏過前年一整年8月更是給我們政府重重一擊不打緊 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10418.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10434.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
委員我先說明一下我不敢否認說打砸的事件還是很多但是數字的差距是我們在計算呈現出來的標準是不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10435.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10464.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
這個部分 呃 劉部長在先前的答詢也答詢過我請劉部長再說明一次委員跟你報告一下我們以前在算打詐的案 把他當成刑案譬如說現在在打詐呢 可能有一群人十幾二十個人的話是算一個案但是現在呢 我們在院長的指示之下呢不能夠用這樣的方式只要一案一個人就算一個案一案十個人就算十個案那金額怎麼講對 但是金額怎麼辦案數增加 我知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10464.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10491.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
我認為這就像火災一樣你們把認定的標準又放任官這個是好 這個是對另外在165報進來的時候就是報案人他的主觀上認定他損失多少金額我們就把它列進去這就是為什麼每天打詐儀表板都可以定時來公布這個打詐的案數跟打詐的財損數但是真正的部分要等我們變成全班刑案的時候來質詢我講到打詐儀表板齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10492.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10517.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
我講到165我講到這個我就想到速發布這個速發布我簡單五個字飯桶速發布我不曉得他在幹什麼打詐的事情完全繞到警政署的手上人家警政署至少有做點事你剛剛講的165那就是只有警政署警政署做的院長你知道嗎警政署啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10518.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10529.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
布置這165APP防詐的專網人家只花一千萬前幾天啊數位部搞了半天 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10531.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10556.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
千呼萬喚使出來他搞一個APP花6千萬不打緊喔他那個6千萬的APP大家可以去看你現在上網馬上看看他上面的評語是怎麼樣花6千萬結果下面臭罵連連滿意分數5分來講他只有2.8分然後現在速發部 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10558.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10569.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
做不了任何事情他每年就增加預算光這一點喔 院長那個部長你先等一下我先問一下院長對抒發部你要怎麼處理你覺得他們這樣做對嗎謝謝委員提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10571.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10572.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10595.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10612.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
這個平台上網的時間 延後到年底希望再做改善我今天題外話講他啦 為什麼 因為他實在太飯多他明年的預算87億 比今年增加21%阿這也就算了 他那個APP你待會去看 他 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10614.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10624.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
五天前上線這五天來負評如潮他的負評大概哪一些呢人家說找不到通報功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10626.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10652.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
說介面差啦說使用中國的用語中共那邊的用語優化這個他都帶用中共那邊的用語再來呢通知後沒有結果這是最糟糕你看看人家警政署的165至少那個165的功能我那個院長你看一下我畫面上會放165的功能啦這麼多 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10654.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10673.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
這麼多花一千萬這個飯桶數位部花六倍的錢下面負評如潮所以 院長我希望說你今天就下令他齁乾脆撤掉算啦全民就當作說這些錢丟到水裡面普通一生 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10675.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10675.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
負責跟國外 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10702.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10713.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
這些網路平台FB Google Line 所有這些的聯繫是由速發部他老兄一點能力都沒有 什麼都沒幹 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10715.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10743.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
結果事實上我們很多可以用的比如說我們有跟臺日交流協會有做一個司法合作備忘錄他可以好好運用嗎他不我們跟美國也有臺美互助臺美司法互助已經20年的歷史他不懂那他可以好好來問警政署好好談一談所以我在想 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10745.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10751.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
時間到了 不用給他機會啦 直接 要不然就直接由內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10752.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10778.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
由警政署直接藉由臺美司法互助藉由臺日我們之間的交流司法的合作那最有牽連的合作備忘錄啊我們趕緊跟他們來談說這樣這樣重大這些詐騙案如何讓LINE讓Google讓Facebook他們願意交通喔太多現在還設置的這些平台什麼Name這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10781.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10784.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
主席是不是停一下我喝個水好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10813.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10813.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
對很好有這句答覆我覺得這樣就 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10841.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10867.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
我覺得很夠好我們的警察我用三句話形容老苦功高出生入死薪水過低那個院長部長你知道嗎今年光是到8月份的到前天的統計我們已經有8位警察自殺身亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10868.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10889.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
那這5年來不連這8位時候我們有51件通報警察自殺但是有31位警察不幸身亡那我們查過這不幸身亡的警察裡面只有6位曾接受過 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10890.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10910.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
所做的心理諮商也就是說我們那個心理諮商的覆蓋率太低了我們在努力改善檢討當中那我覺得這跟待遇非常有關現在你知道嗎 院長部長我們數十天大夜班的員工齊心 新進人員齊心4萬億 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10913.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10941.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
我們做了五年的警察平均他們的薪水五萬二現在廣告說有啦警察招生廣告說薪水有六萬但是那個是含其他比如說首都都會加急吼還有含加班費等等那所以我總而言之一句話這個結果會導致什麼導致我們現在警察的人數嚴重不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10942.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10968.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
到去年底我們全國總共缺了五千位警察所以院長部長這一點我們要積極下去做好不好那我最後一個問題因為昨天凌晨在社子島又發生一個火災那個火災還不算大型的結果燒死一位民眾有五位嗆傷 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10970.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10988.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
那那個慘況如果院長部長你們稍微看了這個報導就曉得社子島已經夠慘了在那邊容留的租戶都還是透過社會局媒介過來社會最底層的三五千塊五六千塊這樣子的租金所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10989.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
11006.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
院長部長我要說的就是說我們要趕快積極開發社職導在台北市政府尋求各方專家民眾的意見之後那麼這個案子就是低密度的生態社職導開發 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
11009.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
11039.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
院長我也獲得部長的首肯部長也為了這個案子也去主動拜訪了這個蔣萬元市長那我認為這是我們再朝再也合作一個很好的案子開發了社子島還給社子島民眾一個公道同時也會帶動周邊社子葫蘆島南港地區的發展所以這個事情是迫在眉睫應該立刻開發好不好是 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
11044.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
11061.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
好,謝謝,謝謝王委員,謝謝卓院長下一位我們請高津素美委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
11074.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
11082.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
謝謝蔣主席 有請卓院長還有曾主委請卓院長一行還有原民會主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
11088.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
11088.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
能夠在這裡講話就不是獨裁 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
11115.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
11133.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
您剛剛的回應是獨裁我們這裡是民主殿堂所有在這邊選出來的立法委員都是代表民意代表多數決就是民主好嗎我現在回到我30分鐘的質詢院長我們來看一下一段影片這是你的備詢你說的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
11135.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
11145.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
三萬元的淨化補償補貼如果能夠提升循序漸進的先編列為四萬行政院是可以接受的我們可以衡量所以我們這次是編了預算編了四萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
11147.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
11168.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
好 院長我看您的背景我深深覺得你對原住民的權益的漠視甚至我可以說你是帶著殖民思維我還記得上次就是6月7號總質詢我在這邊跟你的對話你總是提到禁法補償是政府對原住民的照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11169.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11189.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
所以你會編列4萬塊是可以的編列6萬塊算太多你這樣子的說法我並不意外院長我在這邊提醒您你應該非常的清楚因為你是法律系畢業的照顧這兩個字是政府的援助補償 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11192.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11209.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
是對於政府合法行為造成人民權利的損害所作為的補償措施這兩個的性質是完全不一樣的所以院長您知道嗎進法補償是針對什麼樣的損害做補償的呢我們在行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11216.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11221.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
行動101策略當中我們說現在行政院兩項大的政策就是照顧跟發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11223.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11227.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
原住民保留地禁法補償是補償原住民在憲法上我們的生存權還有財產權的損害 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11252.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11276.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
因為我們的政府禁止原住民使用我們的民族已經開墾在這塊土地上開墾千年以上的土地而我們現在的政府對我們的族人沒有辦法再度的農耕維生而我們的補償額度僅僅只能夠維持最基本的生計 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11277.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11296.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
我們的政府用法律用最強力的手段剝奪了我們原住民的生存權我們不卑不亢我們僅僅要求最低限度的補償這會太過分嗎 院長您休息一下我接著要問一下曾主委曾主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11301.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11328.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
我請問一下 行政院或者民進黨一直不斷的對外放話說禁法補償這個法律是違憲的你是不是認同禁法補償是因為限制了原住民使用自己的土地這是一種補償對啊 我問你啦民進黨團還有一些人對外放話原住民禁法補償是違憲你是不是認同這句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11331.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11344.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
在這裡我要警告行政院還有民進黨團尤其是柯建民委員如果你們堅持違憲的話請問一下蔡英文執政8年的期間進法補償是違憲嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11347.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11364.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
還是說你們覺得這一次的修法才是違憲如果你們堅持這一次的修法是違憲法那就更可笑了 院長你說4萬塊是合憲 6萬塊是違憲我還是想請問一下 6萬塊真的很多嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11365.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11366.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
政府為了照顧老年的農民生活 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11394.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11415.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
沒有任何的條件之下我們的農民每個月就可以領取8,110塊每年是97,320塊而我們原住民被限制了我們用來謀生的土地即便我們的這次修法之後平均每個月我們才可以領到5000塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11418.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11442.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
我們來看一下113年全國最低的生活費每個月是多少一萬四千兩百三十我們原住民僅僅要求這個金額的三分之一居然還被院長您嫌多我不理解我的主任更不理解院長您可以休息一下我要請教主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11444.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11451.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
主委主計長9月25號來到我辦公室跟我說明是主委你沒有積極爭取這導致競爬補償沒有編足 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11454.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11456.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
我跟委員報告第一個就是說每一個特別是我們原住民的立委我每一個立委都有去說明過 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11485.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11486.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
國慶日是10月1號吧? |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11503.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11528.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
你是幾號去的?你26號你就去了你躲避了禮拜五在這邊的總質詢而我幫你查過了禮拜六是可以有非帛琉的班機26號到1號還有那麼多的時間更何況更何況你的前面的副主委也跟你一起去 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11529.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11550.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
主委你不要在這邊在這邊再拿這個來做唐山我現在先請教主委我先請教主委人民會單位的預算是不是僅僅編列4萬塊的額度而剩餘的2萬塊額度你是不是準備要從原住民綜合發展基金中來編列 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11556.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11579.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
我沒有問你這個我是說你是不是這個不足的兩萬塊你要從原住民的綜合發展基金裡面來挪用 是嗎是不是好 既然這樣我就問你最基本的問題你知道原住民綜合發展基金的法源依據是什麼嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11583.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11610.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
法源依據是什麼 沒關係你不要浪費我的時間我給你答案 你照念一遍就好預算法第4條第一項第二款第4目凡經過付出仍可收回的不是用於營業者為作業基金對不對那基金可以作為什麼用途 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11612.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11639.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
可以作為什麼用途沒關係你不知道也給你答案來看一下他可以做什麼用途你唸一下原住民族基本法第18條辦理原住民經濟發展業務、輔導事業機構、住宅還有興辦、租售、建構以及修繕業務這是我們基金可以做的有哪一個有講到禁法補償 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11641.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11654.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
主委啊你連基金的法源依據還有用途能夠作為什麼你都不知道你是怎麼樣幫族人來把關這個預算啊我跟你們報告你不要再回答了你連這兩個法律你都不知道謝謝指教院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11660.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11677.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
6月份我在這裡對您的總質詢 您說 修法過程當中就應該要合理的討論而民進黨也提到 《經法補償條例》是在野黨多數暴力的產物現在我來為您理清一下整個修法的脈絡 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11679.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11707.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
這一屆第1會期我擔任了內政的召委就在4月17號內政跟經濟來審查進法補償條例的聯席會議當中你們的行政機關是這麼說的來我們看一下法務部的報告有關援助民主權益保障這事涉主管機關與大院的職權跟決定本部競表尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11709.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11724.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
農業部的報告說什麼呢 研議提高淨法補償金還有擴大淨法的區域範圍對於維護森林還有自然保育的資源是有正面效益的 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11725.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11746.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
而你們的主計總署在備詢的時候更回答委員的質詢說如果修法通過的話其本身就是屬於依法律所必須編列的支出在編預算的時候他會依照法所通過的規定來編列相關的經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11750.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11770.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
行政機關表達支持：不分黨派的立法委員也都提案：蘇巧慧委員她甚至還提出什麼你知道嗎提出禁法補償金調到7萬塊她也樂觀其成這些在所有的會議記錄是都可以查詢的喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11771.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11784.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
審查結論甚至還從善如流的按照民進黨立法委員吳立華委員他提出的額度來通過這難道是多數暴力嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11785.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11809.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
5月2號政黨協商裡面大家對於禁法補償增加到6萬塊也都表達贊同而這些民進黨的立法委員的連署還有委員當時的發言都是贊成修法的這難道也是在野黨多數的暴力嗎好啦即便在6月24號總統公佈了 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11812.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11814.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
謝謝委員剛剛這一段的陳述證明這不是黨派問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11834.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11858.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
朝野立委不是黨派問題不是顏色問題是守不守法的問題是是非對錯的問題不是立法行政兩院院計分立的問題行政院制定編列預算立法院審議預算制定編列的權限是在行政院立法委員的權限也可以提案好啦好啦院長院長院長我提醒你齁我提醒你我提醒你 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11863.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11867.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
委員你經常把最重要的那一段漏掉沒有錯所以委員都漏掉最重要的那一段造成人們的誤解我沒有誤解啊 是你說的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11883.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11904.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
立法跟行政院要互相尊重我們的分際﹖如果有任何意見的話﹖如果有意見不同的話﹖立法院是多數決﹖只要是經過民主議程表決通過的﹖就是法律﹖委員你一年如果提12萬會要接受嗎?你一年如果你提12萬行政院要接受嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11910.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11912.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
提不提復議案是你行政院決定的也是你的法定職權 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11933.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11944.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
我再說一次在整個立法當中行政機關的正面看法還有民進黨委員在審查的時候的支持我們都可以看到它的必要性跟合理性 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11945.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11966.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
目前唯一阻擋的就是說話不算話的賴皮政府 三讀通過總統的法律 院長 你知道嗎 你是第一個公然違抗總統的行政院我剛剛都已經說了 合法的過程是非常合法的 也沒有所謂的多數暴力 我現在請教一下委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11967.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11971.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
原住民禁法補償條例修正通過的時候 原民會你們是不是有向行政院提報52億元的需求經費 要編列在原民會的單位預算內 有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11987.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
12011.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
我們希望是這樣子好謝謝也就是說從一開始你們原委會就知道經費應該要編列在原民會單位預算內而不是在基金之內所以呢所需要的額度是52億元原民會你要52億行政院只給你28億短缺了24億按照9月25號主計長到我辦公室他說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
12012.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
12040.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
你人民會應該要捍衛法律然後立即發函給行政院然後向行政院長爭取編列足額的經費請問一下主委人民會現在有再一次向行政院爭取嗎有還是沒有我們一直都跟主計總書這裡有沒有再發函給我們行政院長你還要爭取不足的部分 有沒有好 謝謝我現在要再問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
12043.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
12072.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
如果你要從原住民族綜合發展基金撥付的話我就現在就從基金的基本使用再問你你知道原住民綜合發展基金的法源依據嗎剛剛已經問過你了你現在再回答對我知道知道是什麼就是目前的原住民的這個綜合基金的狀況我了解不是狀況我說法源依據剛剛已經問過你了來來助理再給他一次答案有就是作業基金凡經付出仍可回收 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
12073.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
12079.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
原住民族綜合發展基金有哪一些業務是屬於付出然後可以收回的 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
12087.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
12088.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
原住民的貸款 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
12109.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
12112.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
發給族人之後有不足的地方就是不足的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
12125.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
12154.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
我們會請求這個6萬塊發給族人族人拿了這個6萬塊還要還給你的基金嗎不是嘛對不對他就拿走放在口袋了嘛請問一下這有符合基金要可付出仍可收回的性質嗎既然我們金髮補章出去了他是不可以償還的啊這是代表什麼代表你的圓明會的綜合發展基金是不可以這麼用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
12154.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12154.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
第1 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12176.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12195.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
你跟行政院要52億行政院給你28億還少了24億主委你說基金仍然有17億可以調動17-24是多少7億來答案給你不足的部分不足的部分請問你要怎麼補 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12196.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12211.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
我跟委員報告好我們要精算你也說不了什麼你看一下這是你原民會今年給我的基金預算書明年114年度你的基金只剩下10億可以用你知道嗎第二個我再問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12214.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12231.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
這17億淨費裡面你說要從綜合發展基金出去嗎而且你說你要編17億是不是包含明年微小貸款的額度所以當微小貸款的經費全部都放在淨法補償上難道明年度的微小貸款你就不辦了嗎這個你必須跟主任說清楚喔這不會影響這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12235.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12262.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
進化補償我跟委員講最快也是明年的這個時候才發放我現在跟你講的是114年度的綜合發展基金你在講什麼啊主委你到底有沒有進入狀況啊從整個的基金來調度啊第三個再問你更簡單的問題如果你真的要違法用基金撥付進化補償的費用按照你說基金有17億可以用但是你的預算書非常的清楚說 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12263.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12290.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
明年也就是114年的你們的綜合發展基金短處多少你知道嗎?67億多你就知道啊短處已經快破產啦你知道嗎主委我真的覺得你滿離譜的尤其是在今年第一屆新竹縣原住民運動會上面你跟著廣大大眾說什麼我們原住民是人也是鬼 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12291.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12294.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
請問一下你現在是人還是鬼現在是人還是鬼你現在是人還是鬼 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12306.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12332.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
我更記得上個會期你在業務報告裡面跟我說你說爭取園民會的預算是足為很重要的業務可是我發現你向行政院爭取經費你不敢基金是什麼你也搞不清楚可是他給你足夠了嗎還不夠啊然後基金是什麼你也搞不清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12332.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12356.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
基金現在要面臨破產了你也不知道主委你是要做怎麼樣一個盡責的主委啊你說禁法補償明年會如其發你相信你自己說的話嗎我告訴你我是不相信啦除了你睜眼說瞎話之外我們來看一下審查禁法補償條例的時候法務部說什麼會尊重立法院的權責 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12358.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12375.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
農業部說什麼對國土保育有正面的效益主計整處更說什麼他說會依法編列不到兩個月喔你們現在告訴我們說編列預算有困難這個是讓我們的族人怎麼相信你們民進黨的鬼話 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12376.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12403.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
立法程序我們有充分的溝通院長說他只能先給4萬塊甚至只願意給4萬塊然後我剛剛裡面告訴你舉了這麼多的例子我們的基金也確實是沒有辦法挪用到撥付進法補償不管是他的破產不管是他的法律可是行政院你們真的還是要硬幹啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12404.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12405.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
這個論點唯一成立的前提是 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12425.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12437.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
原民會的預算是給足的按照原住民的人口來計算我們原住民的人口數在現在全國的人總數是2.59%應該要有811億的預算而我們現在只分配到多少0.39%也就是122億 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12445.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12473.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
即使再加上民進黨你們不斷的對外講說其他部會用在原住民的身上我也幫你整合了也只有178億這兩個加起來300億連828.8億的一半都不到然後我再告訴你一個事情原住民族地區的行政單位的成績他只有鄉鎮市區的成績 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12474.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12498.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
他們根本也沒有辦法分配所謂的專屬的統籌分配稅款原住民地區的鄉鎮市區我們僅僅只能夠依靠原民會的補助款在生存啊院長你給原住民原民會穿小鞋也就罷了我認為這雙鞋還是嬰兒鞋你對外還有說什麼立法院不能夠增加預算的方式來通過法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12499.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12523.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
但是你看一下你們的柯總召在96年他曾經提出老年農民福利津貼暫時條例的修正案要求老農津貼從每個月五千塊要調高到六千塊然後又在100年的時候再次引民進黨團提修正案從每個月的六千塊調到七千塊我們可以看到他每一次的修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12524.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12539.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
施出將近90億請問民進黨可以高精素沒在這邊提案而且是按照民主程序三讀總統公佈的法律你 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12541.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12567.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
這不是標準的綠能我不能嗎好還沒還沒我會有時間跟你說我再舉一個例子進法補償條例同一天有三讀通過叫做地方民意代表費用支給以及村里長事務補助費的補助條例來看這也是行政院裡面提出版本喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12567.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12579.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
在立法院修正通過內政部現在已經補足了5億8千多萬的相關預算現在不僅僅是綠能我不能更是擺明的欺負原住民然後你又再講 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12580.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12604.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
任何增加新的預計算要有新的財源我們來看一下105年禁法補償通過的時候的附帶決議說什麼如果需要提高禁法補償的金額必須要由開增碳稅來支應112年通過氣候變遷因應法我們的環境部按照這個法的第32條設立了溫室氣體管理基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12610.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12625.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
原住民有為政府守護7萬公頃的碳會的原住民經法補償的私有林地同時原民會也有11萬公頃的公有林地 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12626.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12641.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
溫室氣體管理基金這不就是財源嗎院長你知道最大的問題是什麼嗎是你根本視而不見甚至114年度的稅入稅出的剩餘是209億元你依舊視而不見 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12647.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12667.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
114年也就是明年度的預算總共多少3兆以上這樣子的行政團隊要告訴我的族人說24億我找不到財源真的實在是天大的笑話我講白了你不是讓原住民穿嬰兒鞋您是要讓原住民赤腳走路 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12668.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12682.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
我覺得這是赤裸裸的殖民思想賴政府是我從政23年來我看到最踐踏立法院最欺負原住民的獨裁政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12683.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12707.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
委員所說的完全不是事實我知道委員會把這一段質詢放在影片跟你的主持人說但是你當中有很多斷章取義錯誤的立法院是公開透明的現在已經非常多人在看即時的轉播了那我要報告委員我們的長照我們的健保我們的勞健保難道沒有用在原住民身上嗎有啊有啊所以你剛剛的數字是覺得不對是啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12708.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12714.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
所以我現在要告訴我現在要告訴你我現在我沒有錯誤我沒有錯誤我告訴你們更離譜的是講什麼其他部會放在原住民的身上有178億原住民是話外知名嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12727.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12753.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
你們撲在原住民的道路上其他人難道不走嗎不要在這邊荒謬的亂講話了啦院長請你保持你的高度請你保持你的高度我現在對非常好非常好所以要一一全部要一視同仁所以不要把原住民當作話外之民所以立法院三讀通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12755.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12777.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
總統公告的法院請你守法有這麼困難嗎最後最後最後最後我要用德國牧師尼莫勒的一首詩作為我今天總質詢的結束當納稅逮捕共產黨人的時候我保持沉默我又不是共產黨人 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12779.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12803.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
當他們關押社民黨人的時候我保持沉默我又不是社民黨人當他們逮捕工會人員的時候我保持沉默我又不是工會的人員當他們逮捕我的時候已經沒有人能為我說話了我含著眼淚哽咽地在這邊告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12805.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12834.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
我非常感謝民眾黨團、國民黨團能夠頂住你們的胡說八道能夠頂住所謂側翼的攻擊還在這裡捍衛立法委員的尊嚴捍衛台灣的民主法治所以我要講的是現在民進黨在這裡膽敢欺負台灣的主人您剛剛說的原住民族 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12835.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12836.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12851.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12852.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
發言委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12878.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12887.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
上午質詢到此為止本次會議未有委員提出臨時提案就不進行臨時提案之處理下午2點30分繼續開會進行內政組之質詢現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
21598.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
21599.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
主席有請海洋委員會主委海洋委員會主委請備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
21635.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
21636.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
關主委好 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
21637.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
21665.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
昨天下午蘭嶼相公所有舉辦一個直播也就是關於我們巴貝多吉有一個說明會對 擱淺的事情那我後來就詢問我們環保也就是衛環的環境部的官員他說這不是他們管轄的事情說是屬於海洋委員會他說沒有成立危機應變小組所以他們不便介入我想說你這件事情的後續你的作為是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
21666.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
21669.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
因為他們非常擔心漏油的事件希望這個污染防治能夠比較影響他們明年飛魚季的一個捕獲 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
21692.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
21694.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
你知道當初的船員是誰來救他們 或者是誰給他們提供物資或者是食材嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
21710.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
21737.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
這次是空勤總隊的飛機載著我們海巡的吊掛小隊然後把19個人吊掛救回來救回來以後因為這艘船它擱淺那擱淺以後就斷掉了那好在就是說它斷的這個地方不是遊艙的地方沒有關係那我的意思就是說後續的污染的事情盡量能夠預防因為蘭嶼是我們最珍貴的一個旅遊的地點 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
21738.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
21750.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
我們非常非常的憂心那也非常非常的努力都做到生日半夜好謝謝那有請行政院長麻煩請行政院主委院長備詢院長好主委員好曾主委你知道明天有23位主任要到辦公室找我嗎我知道是關於 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
21768.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
21793.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
關於什麼事情?應該是康納康納夫族的族群委員的事情當然不是只有康納康納夫的成員有表達強烈的不滿那希望你心裡面能夠接受因為他們提出的這些心裡面的人選是他們開過會他們認為這些人是最適合擔任族群委員的人選可是原民會完全漠視他們的提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
21795.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
21803.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
各位報告不是說漠視他們的提案因為整個的這個族人這麼多的優秀的人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
21806.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
21826.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
因為我知道民進黨是執政黨所以我很客氣的提了兩個推薦可是你們也沒有提出你們的想法也沒有提出你們拒絕的理由也沒有把優劣或者說你們禁用的人是因為是什麼樣的原因而禁用也沒有給本席一個答案 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
21827.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
21852.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
我會跟委員報告提出來的這個人選我們沒有什麼黨派的這個考慮希望他能夠為族人多做一點事情這兩個族群找我提供的名單都是他們內部的族群裡面去開過會認為這個人最適合我們才會提報上去我們不可能隨便找一個路人甲來提報啊所以我的意思是說你當時用了A你應該告訴我這A是 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
21852.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
21858.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
行政院長我這邊要提醒的就是我們原住民主健康法在112年5月26號三讀通過也在6月21號公佈他要有一個專責單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
21878.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
21897.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
管理我們原住民主健康那我是一直希望他能夠在施及或處及的一個等級而不是在現行的在一個科裡面希望你把這件事情放在心裡面因為今天不是質詢我們衛福部可是原住民主健康的問題應該跟原民會有關係所以我這邊提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
21897.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
21898.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
委員長施政報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
21916.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
21936.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
當然我今天的主題還是在進法補償但因為很多委員都提過不過我還是要再提我的論述我們台灣的地形的關係那目前我先考一個問題好了主委你知道我們森林覆蓋是多少幾萬公頃嗎森林覆蓋台灣的森林覆蓋的範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
21940.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
21961.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
大概是210萬公頃,將近六成,也就是我們台灣大概都是在這樣的範圍,原名會有11萬,我們原住民的是大概7.2萬左右,如果今年會增加到7.7,也就是18萬,在所有森林裡面210萬裡面的18萬公頃也沒有很多, |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
21965.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
21986.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
對 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
21987.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
22012.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
因為當初舊好茶要辦到新好茶的時候很多老人家說不能辦到新好茶因為那是以前是湖泊那是因為我們幾千年生活在這個土地的一個智慧結果沒有多久它不是整個都滅村了嗎現在已經遷到你那裡舊好茶的命運就是因為我們後來的政府沒有去採納我們原住民的智慧啊不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
22014.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
22042.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
才會一而再再而三的遷徙一直到現在的李娜理好那我們一再而三的講進法補償就是他是補償不是補助他的原則是這樣不是嗎是好那我們從2015年說兩萬塊一公頃好我來調高到三萬塊那我知道主委院長一直一直在說你願意接受四萬塊那請問你的四萬塊的論調是什麼你的基礎是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
22043.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
22069.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
謝謝委員任何的補償補助跟福利的措施都一樣都應該朝合理的方向去進展但是應該考量到國家的財政能夠循序漸進我們很難期待一步到位我知道再多的補償對原住民的這種精神或是領域或是文化或是生活上都無法達成百分之百但我們希望能夠盡最大之力我想知道你認為4萬塊的理由是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
22072.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
22099.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
我認為循序漸進﹚可以達到﹚慢慢的﹚達到那樣的一個境界跟地步當初我們在﹚還在委員會的時候﹚在討論的時候﹚我有提出一個論述﹚我等一下﹚待會會說那我們先從探會開始講好了探會我們昨天有公布也就是10月7號我們環境部有公布我們探會是一公頓300塊可是我在看文獻的時候有一個文獻叫做World Bank也就是世界銀行的 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
22099.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
22126.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
他在5月29號就已經公告我們的碳匯的錢是9塊美金也就是說他比我們提早好幾個月知道說我們的匯率是多少那我們還要等環境部來公佈嗎他9塊錢就算了但我們當然是可以接受從低到高可是我們比大陸還低北京是15塊然後最高的是我們要跟最高的比的話是烏拉圭是167塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
22128.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
22153.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
你烏拉圭是高度開發國家嗎?不是所以我的意思是說你們在﹖無論在計算這個費用﹖或者是說做這個評比的時候你們都沒有原住民的一個委員在裡面我知道3月13號有公佈21名的審議委員﹖碳費的審議委員﹖裡面沒有一個專家﹖學者﹖或者是人民團體是原住民代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
22154.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
22183.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
那燙費這麼一個重要的事情我希望明年度的一個委員裡面能夠採納一個原住民的專家學者可以嗎 院長我會跟環境部本部長來研究如果讓現在如果有疏忽的意見能夠趕緊納進去那麼未來在組織在人員在調整的過程當中我們能夠多多聽聽各位各方的聲音從剛剛那個圖表是說世界上各國的一個燙費的 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
22186.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
22209.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
規範從幾塊錢到一百多塊多也就是參加幾十倍也就是說這個市場還是一個新興的市場那我們從一個圖表來看2015年到2019年才短短的四年時間已經翻了好幾倍它的平均值也就是說如果我們就講進法補償為什麼會doubling或者說為什麼會有這樣子一個趨勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
22210.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
22239.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
是以前低估了現在我們是不過是讓他能夠恢復到正常的一個所謂的補償那為什麼呢從以下幾個論述來看第一個他還是在生計的時候尋求生計的時候森林作為一個生活場域的時候他可以占了一般就是落後國家比如說新巴威啦或者是一些他上面所表列的國家他森林可以負擔他40%以上的生活條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
22240.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
22268.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
好 第二個也就是說如果它是商機的時候如果一個企業家他認為這個森林它覆蓋了很多也許它裡面有很多珍貴的藥材或者說它可以從裡面竊取很多生物的物質或者是說去做一些研發它的價值可以從好 可以從裡面沒有關係可是它可以到9177塊每公頃的美金也就是說這是它的商機的部分那如果說就間接的一個間接的所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
22270.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
22295.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
價值的話如果他是一個水域的保護或者說水質的一個品質保證的話他大概可以落在800多塊或者200多塊這樣的一個區塊這是一公頃美金的一個價格這是水域或者是供水的一個value那如果就CO2二氧化碳的一個碳的存底來看的話下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
22297.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
22325.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
他大概就落在一公頃是兩千美金這是2001年的一個研究也就是說我們長期低估了碳底存在這個森林的這個市場這樣的一個價值所以我們一直都沒有認為說這個森林的保護是多麼重要可是現在這是一個世界的一個所謂的趨勢大家要去知道說原來這個它的價值是在這裡因為它是有維護我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
22327.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
22353.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
這個生態阿或者是說避免暖化這些一個他的優厚的力量所以他的價格是這樣阿如果說他是原始領2830阿如果是變成後來變成轉農作的話會變成790然後permanent如果變成農業的話變成630阿如果是牧場會變成630630對那意思說如果他是沒有沒有耕作的話他大概都在2000塊左右的一個價值 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
22355.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
22384.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
那我是上次我們在委員會討論的時候是提了這個論述最後一個就是在他圖表就是他所謂的option value就是說有些國家是進步到說他已經有些力能的概念或者說他有環保的意識他認為他可以付5美金來維持巴西的森林他用這樣的概念去算的話其實這個所謂的間接的價值也存在 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
22385.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
22412.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
所以他這個價值呢有可以到5塊錢可以到12塊美金所以他的total在最後一頁你看他有所謂的當然不要講伐木當然有他的價值可是伐木的價值如果一存在的話那個所謂的climate的benefit就沒有了所以也就是說你這邊是1000然後這樣加加種種加上他的一些休氣啊加上一些他的生物多樣性啊或者是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
22413.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
22439.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
我們剛所說的間接價值的話遠遠超過這兩千塊美金所以我的意思就是說其實當初我們在講這個森林的這個價值的時候是一個多元的一個概念他是個生態的概念那我們已經走到這個地步我們不可能再走回頭路再去找那個所謂的按照這個國家的那個合理的推算然後應該是到達四萬塊因為我希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
22440.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
22463.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
院長你有個概念就是說我們是希望能夠補足以前沒有補足到的而且你知道進化補償是105年才開始那105年以前呢我們一直都是這個森林的主人是這個土地的主人我們沒有說我們要求那麼多我們是從現在開始先補足而且我們這次的修法的重點是每兩年調整一次不是你講的明天就調到12萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
22464.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
22491.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
而且是按照物價指數在做調整也就是說這次一次到位以後這兩年以後再說如果經濟水準沒有到那個地方也不可能再調漲我們的如果你有仔細看我們的法律是那樣子來修正的所以你可以尊重我們的想法或者說已經通過的法律保護森林喔剩下一分鐘我要講一個重點最重要我認為今天最重要的我先考下主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
22493.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
22497.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
盧凱族、排灣族的乞丐怎麼說?盧凱族、排灣族的乞丐怎麼說?盧凱族、排灣族的乞丐怎麼說? |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
22523.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
22548.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
所以我們的世界觀裏面我們的想法裏面沒有去求別人希望你能夠再三的而三的去想一下你自己的思維可以嗎是謝謝謝謝委員謝謝盧縣議委員的質詢也謝謝左院長香港部會首長的備詢本會接下來登記第11號邱毅英委員第12號吳佩奕委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
22552.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
22563.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
兩位委員質詢均以書面提出請行政院書面答覆並列入記錄刊登公報接下來我們請登記第13位王美惠委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
22580.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
22586.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
主席,我們這裡的院長請補充麻煩卓院長請備詢我們內政部長麻煩內政部,劉部長請備詢跟陸委員王委員好院長你好,補充好 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
22602.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
22623.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
本社在今天這頓當中先提點來跟您討論一個10月7日﹐有香港人在我們西門町﹐來舉辦活動﹐在這個活動的時候﹐有款對中國的國旗﹐因為不知道怎樣﹐還要雄勇一隊紅阿牧﹐來揶揄﹐跟這隊紅阿牧﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
22630.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
22632.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
指導當天都有看到報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
22644.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
22672.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
警政單位也做了必要的處分我們知道說他在西門町鬧事之後我們的移民署跟臺北市警局馬上就做處理也在當天的時候到君悅飯店裡面把相關的書面文件提供給他請他要離開因為我們發現說他到臺灣來的目的跟他原來所申請的項目不符合 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
22672.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
22692.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
所以在當天的時候呢就臺北市警局還有移民署就做了處理第二天就請他回去中國我第二天就請他回去中國這樣算上來我們中華民國的臺灣有夠優先的也對人很客氣的這如果發生在中國的時候就不是這樣了你有看到我們李明澤去到中國 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
22701.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
22706.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
當然他要來的時間可能我們沒那麼簡單可以讓他來 因為已經註記了 表示他在台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
22731.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
22740.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
做到議員來講的目的不一樣我絕對要禁止議員來講他主席的時候他要來的時候他就是因為探親嘛他若有在台灣嘛結果沒理由若調查起來他若有一次已經回到他祖國的中國了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
22756.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
22779.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
所以補充在這裏面我們的審核是不是有帶有缺點的你看他們哪有登記以來沒有住在台灣這塊土地他沒有經常住在台灣喔中華民國喔但是他是11屆來到台灣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
22785.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
22794.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
結果他們來發聲的事是十幾千人﹖他們若有回應他們祖國的心﹖是七個回應的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
22796.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
22818.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
跟委員報告我們現在對中國大陸人士來台的這個探親的這個簽證的核准的期間都是6個月專業人士也是6個月商務人士也是6個月這個6個月就是說我發證給你這個6個月內有效您剛剛提到的很重要就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
22819.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
22820.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
他申請的時候他母親在,但是他來探親的時候母親不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
22839.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
22841.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
對啦 我覺得不是出境而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
22863.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
22875.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
因為他這個對台灣的應用很大的你看人們在那裡的飯碗中,他們兩個阿嬤在那裡亂我也是在那裡批論,那這塊現地,大陸那時候、中國那時候,那要整個頭髮洗什麼來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
22886.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
22907.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
委員我們是自由民主法治的國家我們不像中國大陸但是您提到的對於簽證核發的管理我們要加強包括用抽查等等機制這才是問題啦他要探親的時候是因為他老婆嘛我們的保證的時候他的中間他老婆已經回去我講幾次了啦已經回去他祖國啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
22911.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
22912.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
因為我認為這個未來因為我們現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
22931.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
22933.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
22954.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
22959.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
在這個規定當中 我也覺得這個打造這個規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
22977.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
22997.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
院長有需要,要如何修法,我相信無分第一檔,無分你是北部的立委,還是南部的立委,都運到這個大廈來發表,院長弟弟歡迎來賓,我們同過修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
22999.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
23012.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
你在5月10日的時候,你有說過什麼你覺得一件?這個打仗的問題你也知道我們武打企業裡面,重要的打仗是要防衛的要防衛啦,因為因為你有說到,想要拚的,也沒辦法拚啦已經拚的,也會抓到啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
23024.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
23025.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
委員長 抱歉委員長抱歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
23052.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
23076.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
王委員回答一下7月底我們通過這個打詐新司法後對我們內政部經濟事務所負責的大部都在第一算所以我們現在大量在做宣傳有關165的部分然後我們今天新公布的這個打詐儀表板9月份打詐的這個案件數跟財損數跟8月份比起來已經下降很多下降很多15%15%15%沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
23081.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
23084.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
昨天施政報告：第11屆第2會期第3次會議：第3次會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
23101.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
23105.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
我就是要補充跟院長說我看了一天走一條路 我覺得說 咦?這六個 被騙兩個月啦這六喔 十五喔 騙五個月啦 院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
23129.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
23155.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
你這樣看就知道你會怕嗎當然會啦當然會嘛這個議票版就是要讓大家知道說現在這個情形在社會上很嚴重因為這個受理的表現跟過去我們說表現出來是不一樣的計算跟統計的措施啦現在我們有新的標準但是照這個標準轉來去打現在打詐釋法通過議號我們在法律我們有工具我們透過科技 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
23157.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
23165.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
來偵辦,我們透過跨國合作來偵辦,很多夢幻在走但是我知道,事情要不會很好?事情要不會很好?對,一定要再努力因為本席在這裡說,他剛才這段時間本席剛才有15分鐘,一定說10分鐘在這個過程當中,我們本席15分鐘說完的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
23181.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
23194.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
我們的詐騙集團﹐在75分鐘內﹐就騙獎金要450萬所以﹐院長﹐不怪本席若你說﹐說你會怕嗎?真的 我覺得 你說﹐跟部長都一樣的我們希望若受你做政客﹐剛才院長說的﹐是發詐﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
23208.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
23215.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
做不健康﹚現在做健康﹚還是以前的統計﹚不一樣﹚因為我覺得以前的款﹚ |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
23220.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
23247.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
議員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
23248.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
23249.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
發言委員：完整會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
23267.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
23267.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
23284.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
23290.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
每天公布的數字,但是你真正進入要刑案再辦的時候就會變成我們下面所說的公布的數字,所以不太一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
23303.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
23303.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
院長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
23324.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
23339.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
委員是委員代表：因為北省所看好的：就是說我錢不便宜：不管你幾隻好：一百隻好：一千隻好：我最溫暖的就是我錢要怎樣：這才是重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
23346.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
23358.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
你說破案破10件、100件﹖對學生、學生﹖老師、體育的人都沒做問題你如果他的職業不便宜﹖最無能力能做100件﹖他一定會被這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
23364.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
23368.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
委員有兩種感 委員報告 第一項就是攔阻 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
23380.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
23393.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
有很多人要去ATM 或是要去銀行 要去指教詐騙集團的警察﹑銀行的人 會在那裡被封鎖那就表示錢沒了不起 這是一種方式另外一種就是 你已經進入警察機關 或是法務部在進展的過程當中你還要等到所有警察機構在後 你才可以要求說這件事可以退還給你而這個程序呢 我們的法務部 跟其他相關的單位 都有一個執法在進行當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
23409.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
23427.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
因為我知道實話當中﹐是北省院長﹐因為我覺得我們要有問題站出來﹐我們要有辦法改善去﹐大廈可以做得好﹐讓他們走﹐像你說的說﹐騙得到也騙不到了﹐要拿起來﹐在這兩天我覺得大廈的事情﹐你我都要繼續加油﹐是 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
23435.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
23435.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
23446.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
23461.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
為了人民的福利,我相信部長和院長和在座的,包括我們的院長、韓院長也好,都很高興未來這個議程,要怎麼去處理,比較好因為我身為嘉義市,我也要嘉義市的補助的議程,跟建設的議程 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
23471.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
23474.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
謝謝王美惠委員質詢：謝謝卓院長跟相關部會所長的備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
23500.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
23507.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
報告委員會現在在旁聽席上二樓貴賓室來自於美國國會助理訪問團我們掌聲歡迎接下來我們請登記第14號馬文君委員質詢馬文君議員 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
23531.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
23535.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
謝謝主席麻煩請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢麻煩委員好院長午安院長在今天內政的這個諮詢裡面其實可能也有非常多近期大家關切的部分就是總統要成立一個全社會 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
23560.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
23584.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
防衛任性委員會那這當中特別要培養40萬的可視民力我想要請教這40萬是怎麼計算出來了它包含哪些人或者哪些團體好 謝謝民力的部分它包含的團體相當多比方它有義勇警察大隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
23585.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
23585.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
議員：完整會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
23613.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
23623.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
發生危險的時候他還能夠救援這些人命跟人的生命重要的問題但在穩定整個社會的秩序跟自然的問題協助這些工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
23625.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
23649.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
議員長這聽起來其實是有點虛幻因為其實我們剛剛提到的所有的一些民訪團體比如說義警義消民訪還有義交等等其實這些本來他們在現在他們的工作就是協情所有相關的一些單位的協情其實他們本來就在做而且做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
23650.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
23650.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
施政報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
23680.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
23699.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
可是另外還有一些新的到底是什麼有還有什麼新的嗎首先很感謝委員提到的剛剛這些個團體包括民間的慈善的工作隊長我們討論新的部分好不好第一個我們要感謝他們但是就是要把他們的工作再整合起來做有系統的整合起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
23700.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
23728.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
而不是段段落落的區區段段這樣一段一段來做整合起來整個名利才能夠去做有效的運用我們現在請教另外一個就是我剛剛說的除了剛剛這幾個因為40萬的可是名利除了我們剛剛院長提到的因為你可能還漏掉了就是我們的替代役那替代役裡面他就佔了絕大部分大概26萬多了那還有沒有什麼其他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
23729.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
23748.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
你說的NGO團體NGO團體到目前為止我們的計算基礎大概在3萬到4萬左右那這NGO的團體我們也希望它可以未來有碰到這個大規模的災害的時候可以跟我們的政府的一些力量一起結合舉例來說有哪些NGO團體 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
23749.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
23751.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
他們過去現在有在做嗎所以其實你們提到的都是現在已經存在的這些相關的組織跟團體那平常其實他們就已經做得非常好 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
23774.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
23796.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
此計是所有全世界公認﹖他不管在任何的紀律各方面﹖還有效率其實都非常的好﹖甚至他並不需要政府再去多做其他的規範﹖其實反而會綁手綁腳﹖因為我在裡面還有看到就是有黑熊的部分﹖黑熊學院也在我們裡面﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
23797.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
23815.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
黑熊學院他們是民間團體自己在訓練他們自己的民間的力量那我們是這樣子就是包括像慈濟或是黑熊這些的未來是要那邊就是說如果我們到所以他們未來都會在我們這個可是名利裡面是不是也會屬於其中一環但是是志願性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
23817.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
23845.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
因為現在所有都是志願性的對 志工團體都是志願性的對 因為你在所以這是平時是由內政部來做統整民間團體由民間力量自己來做協助跟訓練但是我們剛剛所提到的如果你是一警一消或甚至替代役的訓練的話那內政部就按照法律來做訓練這些訓練會比較有規模譬如說我們要做EMT的訓練部長 這個他們本來就在做對 但是我們希望能夠再精進 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
23846.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
23867.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
消防也是因為你還是做初級的我們現在看到你們做的只是初級的救護訓練然後消防的部分其實他們也都有其實我聽到地方的那個教訓 招訓算是去年開始有一些像這樣的協情單位他們去年開始可能有接受去年是一天今年是兩天 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
23868.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
23895.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
那他們受的一個訓練大概就是檢傷醫的救護然後還有操作無人機可是他們有很多都已經60歲了因為現在年輕人我們少子化其實年輕的並不多不像以前其實要參加疫消都還要排隊那現在其實在招募的過程其實不像過去那麼多了可是他們在訓練大概就訓練這些有一些他們說 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
23897.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
23897.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
23922.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
23922.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
內政部委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
23939.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
23939.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
在這裡不好意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
23967.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
23967.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
23990.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
23990.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
24012.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
24013.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
委員我需要再說明一下我想不是這樣子第一個現在的國軍他們在救災當中只是支援調度組 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
24030.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
24054.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
真正有災害發生的時候第一個都是警消在第一線馳援但是支援調度組包括很多機具或者是其他後續的這些清消的工作當然協助 部長沒關係因為你講的這個我就說他們平常已經在做火災發生的當下當然是消防疫消他們會去那疫警當然在整個一個一些維護上面協助警力這些本來就在做我剛剛也講到說你說的救災的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
24056.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
24078.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
去看看高雄這次發生的時候﹖他調動一千多人﹖一千多名軍人﹖即使在營區也發生這樣的風災的一些情況之下﹖他們還是去做這些救援﹖其實沒有運用到其他的人力﹖我們現在要說的我先簡單的再請教一下﹖因為剛剛念的這些可是民力﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
24079.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
24094.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
他們有亦警亦消就是這些民防團體他們在一般來說因為我們現在少子化尤其像我們現在的教招教招一般來說他的時間現在拉長然後他的頻率越來越高 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
24094.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
24095.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
24113.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
24116.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
報告委員 有關招訊的兩個部分在內政部所處理是替代役 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
24141.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
24159.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
替代議的部長我要請教的是因為不要講天那個我們都知道那個我們都知道已經存在的不用再解釋我現在要講的是因為你剛剛成立這個委員會那這個委員會裡面你又要那邊有40萬的可是名利那這些可是名利裡面扣掉比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
24160.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
24160.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
委員： |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
24175.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
24176.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
後備軍人由國防部負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
24198.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
24220.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
那他是誰呢我跟委員再解釋一下部長你先不要講話那請教院長如果我們這個那邊的委員會我們現在要知道如果因為像義消、義警他們平常做了很多的社會服務的工作他們已經在做了他們是不需要被叫招的現在有人在傳那我們加入黑熊 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
24222.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
24239.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
是不是我們就不需要叫招 這個變成他可以逃避叫招的一個管道可不可以 這個可不可以 院長請在這裡明確的讓大家知道這完全沒有辦法重疊跟取代每一個不同的團體他都有他的主管機關會負責他平常的業務 這個都不會受影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
24240.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
24257.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
那或許我們在地方大型的演練的時候會有一些基本上的訓練但是這還沒有做到細部的計畫那為什麼要有40萬的名利因為大型災害來臨的時候可能在很多的地點可能在交通受阻的地方可能要出現非常緊急的救援 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
24261.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
24270.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
南投縣曾經發生921大地震在這麼大的一個天然災害裡面其實大家的互助那個已經是每個人都動起來當然我們知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
24272.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
24272.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
法定人數不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
24297.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
24297.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
目前不會增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
24328.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
24353.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
每年招訓的元額大概是26萬也就是說我們現在在徵招的時候在動員實施的時候你如果在徵招期間對於徵招勤務還有軍需生產的人力是召集退伍以後8年內的後備軍人大概就是76萬人如果再加上我們的常備部隊25萬人左右大概可以用的就是100萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
24354.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
24372.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
就是在作戰的時候就是這一百萬人是可以用的因為我們為什麼要特別提出來是過去沒有像這樣子說把混在一起因為剛剛你的那個可是名利的就是這個委員會裡面其實他他的有些工作項目是跟軍 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
24374.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
24393.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
這個我們在動員實施階段﹚軍方的這些任務其實是有些是重疊的﹚所以到時候可能會發生有一些混亂的一個狀況﹚我想請教的是如果暫時部隊耗損的時候補充人力要從哪裡來 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
24396.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
24408.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
這個40萬的名利基本上他不會參與剛剛說的那樣的一個活動跟那樣的任務他主要是在訓練他從事剛剛說的協助收容緊急救援以及次序維護 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
24410.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
24432.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
副長因為我為什麼特別提到就是說因為現在大家會覺得你好像準備的是戰爭的狀況所以我特別提出來是剛剛那40萬人裡面其實是跟我們的戰爭就是我們在沒有就是跟我們的後備體系可能會被納到包括我們常備部隊一起要參與作戰的如果他在梯隊耗損以後其實通常會從這些人 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
24433.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
24435.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
謝謝馬文君委員的質詢謝謝卓院長相關部會所長的備詢報告委員會接下來登記第15號李寅泰化委員請質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
24467.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
24470.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
林委員好在正式質詢之前要希望得到我們行政院的權力支持這次短短兩個月內我們高雄市遭受楷米跟三坨颱風的重擊榮與災損 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
24495.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
24497.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
風速達到一定的程度 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
24525.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
24548.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
那麼全品項的救災這個是農業部早有的這個計畫當中在補助的措施當中那這一次包括跟上一次我們這一次到屏東他也是這樣子在處理那至於說免現勘的部分現在農業部他有一個APP的照相的平台你總是要有一個依據你把它拍的傳上去傳上去讓他說真的是這個地方有這個地點有這樣的損害 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
24553.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
24574.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
好 院長 若您這樣已經承諾 我想地方政府各個城市跟鄉鄉政事公所他就知道 他只要提供照片免抗災就可以來做認定的一個依據但是這邊有一個善意的提醒 在4月3號我們的花蓮地震補助花東的農產品的運輸 我們的媒體政策上叫做全部補助蛋 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
24575.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
24600.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
實質上每副補助的額度卻限100箱的這個交通補助所以在這邊只是善意的提醒避免政府的這樣的美意在執行到最末端的時候是榮民的感受跟政策間出現落差的遺憾好今天質詢的是消失的兒童郵寄權益別讓兒童郵寄權益成為台灣缺少的一塊拼圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
24600.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
24624.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
在這邊兒童權益為普世價值政府不應該置身事外而且本身本國的法令是形成混亂的現況也讓院長知道以及我們現在特色遊景場的困境有三具體建議有三好兒童權益的為普世價值政府不該置身事外每年也就是下個月11月20號就是國際兒童人權日在聯合國兒童權利的這個兒童 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
24627.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
24648.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
權利公約當中我們的第31條就講到兒童享有休息休閒的權利有從事適合其年齡的遊戲娛樂活動的權利以及自己參加文化生活藝術的生活的權利好本國2014年通過兒童權利公約實施法落實的做法是兩個現況 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
24650.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
24678.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
各縣市政府各行其事我們的中央卻沒有主政的統籌機關好2015年民間發起黃我特色公園2022年民間團體說了希望許孩子一個永續的遊戲城市六都的候選人都承諾了但目前各縣市的做法是怎麼樣呢第一個裁員不同第二個主管機關不同在各縣市政府室外的公園遊戲場是公務局 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
24679.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
24695.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
市內親子館是社會群各局處在公共建設當中是可以興建自己的親子遊樂場看到中央我們特色公園中央主管的機關是誰這邊一定要讓院長知道了 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
24697.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
24712.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
衛福部社家署訂定遊戲場設施規範內政部國土署負責闢建公園綠地教育部國教署補助學校遊戲場建置經濟部水利署負責合併公園設置 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
24714.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
24729.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
那產巴署要負責輔導本土的遊具業者我們特色公園主管機關是誰呢目前是多頭馬車那我地方政府要向哪一個部會來申請呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
24730.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
24758.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
好我們有這個特色公園有三個困境第一個遮蔽不足高溫難耐這個遮陽設施是不足兒童啊是容易曬傷燙傷的而且呢公園的遮蔽不應該只有仰賴現有的樹木也應該要考慮到棚架帆布以及提供水源降溫好我們的地方政府的裁員部族就把這樣的遮陽設施納入了下一期的維護經費間接的就排擠到什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
24759.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
24788.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
部到公設體建設施的修繕預算好我們來看鋪面材質影響場地的溫度同等的日照設施自然草地跟人工草皮的溫度就可以達30度了好我們的特色公園困境二空間不足挑戰低挑戰性是低的特色公園的用地是取得不易除了發會聚資引進的外國特色郵據來改善現有公園各縣市政府是少有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
24788.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
24812.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
用置地重劃取得公園用地﹚再用標授地備備來蓋遊戲場這樣的案例是少所以我們地方人投入的資源說不多的所以在這邊本席呼籲我們行政院中央應該要重視跟主打好我們再看這個有空間不足當中講的油罐罐頭油去充斥各公園 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
24813.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
24829.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
雖然安全但是特色不足不好玩的公園就如同閒置的公共設施好第一個全國一封翁的蓋特色公園已經大同小異的國外郵據如鳥巢四秋間那遙遙馬出現了罐頭郵據2.0 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
24833.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
24860.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
感覺就是同一本的廠商目錄挑出來的並不能向國外結合在地景觀跟人文特色發展鄉鎮特色的遊戲場第二個也因為我們太過度於依賴國外進口遊具要維修的時候就必須等待國外的零件缺乏國內產業鏈的這個連結好 第三個我們的數量不足好玩的公園是人潮洶湧 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
24861.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
24874.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
不好玩的公園是乏人問津所以我們身為爸爸媽媽的現在是跨縣制為孩子找尋特色公園也印證了供需失衡比如我們屏東車城 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
24876.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
24893.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
的洋蔥大福遊樂場高雄時代公園的遊樂場臺南港濱公歷史公園的遊樂場都是地方政府千萬級的打造但後續的維護費用是非常的高昂導致地方政府無法再興建新的同等級的遊樂場 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
24894.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
24916.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
好我這個再講到身心障礙者我們的選項更少了輪椅族能玩的設施是不多的即使公園我採用共榮式的設計只要一走出遊樂場那我周遭的無障礙設施是未見改善我興建公園的美意減半所以本席也主張應該逐年撿到各公園各公園的這個遊戲場的共榮設施 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
24920.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
24940.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
實現所有人一起玩具體建議有三這要請院長明確的答覆第一個 中央應確立主管機關到這個主管機關怎麼樣的重要呢因為是澈澈公園的主管機關他要來跟衛福部教育部內政部主計總處各單位來成立跨部會的專責 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
24941.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
24970.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
院長您願不願意來認定兒童遊戲空間的國家總體目標如果我們行政院真的面對少子化當中我們也願意把兒童遊戲空間當作國家總體目標預算計劃我們通通就要出來了而且也要列為國家重點施政方向這是第一個等一下請院長來回應第二個我們除了室外之外室內也應該設置親子遊樂空間而且要結合右腳 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
24971.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
24971.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
委員： |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
24988.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
24999.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
運動中心﹚立體停車場﹚休閒校舍﹚活動中心﹚辦公大樓﹚輔導地方政府多目標使用﹚讓促餐業者榮記獎勵﹚讓他們願意回饋公共特色遊樂場﹚室內親子館的相關設施﹚擴大兒童遊戲場域 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
25009.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
25023.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
針對室內的部分以及相關我們的公共建設 院部也有這樣的一個獎勵第三個 油具國產化跟公園特色化我們要讓罐頭油具不腐爛 國產油具帶動智慧製造 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
25025.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
25030.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
智慧製造的特色就是少量多養所以請產業發展署將郵據國產化視為產業轉型的重點主責輔導國內的金屬構建房部塑膠地電建築景觀等產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
25041.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
25068.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
發展特色遊戲場的解決方案提供國內多樣客製化的選擇降低進口的依賴同時帶動我們產業製造脈絡智慧化高質化協助公園結合地方特色提升兒童權益這三項我們一一來看院長您要怎麼樣的來承諾中央對於特色主管機關的部會是哪一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
25068.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
25074.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
好委員報告社區裡面的公園或是校園裡的或是公園裡的 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
25075.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
25103.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
他現在都是由他的場域所在地的目的事業主管機關那如果要把它統一一個地方效率是不是會更高呢在公園裡面的如果要衛福來管在學校裡面的值得考慮我們可以來考量這個事情是如何產生一個更高的效率同時就有很多是地方政府去維護 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
25105.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
25107.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
特色公園不應該納入國家總體目標不應該納為國家重點的施施方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
25120.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
25137.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
為了小孩子能夠有一個好的環境 院長您可以把這個問題帶回去 到你不需要在現在就馬上否決因為你這是矛盾 我說我們來想一個更高效率的方式至少你要回應本席 你要交給哪一個人或哪一個單位先來做研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
25139.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
25161.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
還是要內政部跟教育部跟衛福部分別來討論一個就好 哪一個一個就好 那我請政委來負責好不好哪一個政委如果這樣我請陳時中政委來負責好 陳時中 陳政委 好 謝謝好 第二個我們在這個室外的兒童遊憩場域之外有室內的部分您認不認同呢 如果你認同在陳時中政委他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
25162.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
25175.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
這樣的一個協調這個評估的當中他就會納入包括我的各個公共建設我如果有促成的隆基獎勵讓他能讓業者來回饋公共特色的遊戲場包括室內的遊戲場你的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
25178.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
25178.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
內政部討論： |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
25194.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
25216.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
我要擴增我政府不用花太多的預算可是我卻能夠在公共建設導入的時候我就可以拿到我的公共設施這就是本席希望的在減少政府的負擔之下您願不願意也納入評估呢當然可以我請內政部來評估是由陳時中政委同樣這個方案來評估這個問題還是要內政部先來評估我們再送交政委來討論好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
25222.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
25246.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
所以你這個是可以分開執行是嗎是只要內政部就可以來針對這個促參的部分就可以先來評估是嗎我想我這一件部分這個部分我可以請內政部來評估怎麼樣跟這個隆基獎勵等等那這樣的話是不是一個月內就可以給本席這樣的回應了好我請謝謝好第三個我們郵據國產化公園特色化 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
25247.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
25248.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
經濟部的產發署就是在協助國內廠商你願不願意將主責這樣一個新增的業務給經濟部產發署呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
25273.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
25288.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
可以的 產發組本身就是從事這樣的業務的謝謝院長你很明確的願意將我們的特色公園在很清楚的明確回應本席包括我們的國產化包括我們室內的增加透過相關的容積獎率的評估也願意在主則當中先 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
25293.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
25317.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
做評估由我們陳時中政委好謝謝院長你很明確的對我們兒童權益的重視也願意把它當作國家總體目標這件事情我想要再問一次院長你認不認為兒童遊戲空間是國家的總體目標這是第一個兒童遊戲空間應不應該納為國家重點施政請回答這兩個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
25319.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
25331.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
兒童遊戲空間是國家可以發展的重要的政策之一這個我當然同意您願不願意把兒童遊戲空間的預算計畫演練為國家重點施政呢我們會在 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
25334.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
25358.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
施政的過程當中會把他納進去整個施政當中的一環因為這是新生項目 院長其實這是過往我們政府沒有特別去重視所以希望在卓院長的人頂這個就是我們對於全台然後人民的所有的下一代他的遊戲權我們在卓院長的內閣當中很明確的一個施政的一個重點亮點好 謝謝院長謝謝 謝謝 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
25361.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
25375.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
謝謝林代化委員的質詢：謝謝卓院長的備詢報院會內政組織質詢已詢答完畢我們現在休息10分鐘休息之後進行外交及國防組織質詢現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
25989.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
26006.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
現在我們繼續開會進行外交及國防組織質詢第一位沈博洋委員質詢以書面提出請行政院以書面答覆並列入記錄刊登公報接下來我們請黃仁委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
26020.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
26049.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
有請我們部長 國防部部長麻煩請國防部部長備選是 黃偉豪部長好國軍是不是螺絲鬆了今天下午兩點半在清泉崗 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
26052.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
26078.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
防空 空軍防空器這個指揮部中心裡面發生了一個死亡案件這個是在信念的過程裡面子彈貫穿了下耳子彈從下耳裡面貫穿了這個臉結果後來送醫之後送醫不治死亡了 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
26079.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
26101.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
在信念的過程我曾經待過那個單位我們在以前叫空軍防砲的一個信念營那個地方我們曾經受信的時候非常嚴格不管在任志作戰包含信念基礎的基本動作都非常嚴格 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
26102.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
26108.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
現在反觀現在你看看我們很多的這些自殺案件軍中裡面的這些狀況包含剛剛發生的 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
26114.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
26143.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
發生了是不是信念的問題還是鬆懈了造成士官兵的死亡今天父母好不容易把孩子送給到國金裡面來為國家效力但是在信念的過程包含教育信念這個非常嚴謹又嚴格的事情今天我想請教國金 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
26151.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
26160.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
跟委員報告我剛剛也是接到司令跟我報告就這個部分當然我感到也非常沉痛 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
26161.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
26190.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
那發生這樣不幸的意外那現在有關進一步的這個因為這個是在打靶訓練的過程當中發生的當然啦那有關這個整個過程是如何那他們現在正在調閱這個監視錄影帶那正在釐清事實當中那等事實釐清之後再跟我委員來做一個進一步的報告那我想我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
26191.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
26193.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
就整個打靶訓練的過程當中的嚴謹度,我們會透過這些事件進一步檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
26202.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
26227.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
所以今天我們講的我們常常講說我們在這一次裡面的國防預算是最高6400多億買武器縱然是對我們國際的戰力戰備絕對有效但是現在的士兵的換算包含要自願意的現在已經減少的將近6成以上因為他們不願意當兵 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
26228.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
26251.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
為什麼他寧可說我寧可在社會上工作我也不願意去擔兵那現在自願意的少之又少甚至他義務的也不願意去冒這個風險但是他必須要盡國家之義務那往往產生了什麼在訓練的過程包含這些紀律 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
26252.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
26252.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
麻煩請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
26281.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
26281.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
我們現在講的是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
26295.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
26296.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
主國論的問題主國論問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
26325.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
26335.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
現在談論這個祖國論我們賴總統拋出了這個祖國論的論調我們看一下大陸到現在為什麼沒有任何反應 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
26337.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
26363.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
沒有任何反應倒是我們不具名的國安據說國安高層透過管道放這個消息警告國人那大陸準備還台經驗到底是誰在地協力者那另外就是這顯然有自導自演的一個現象那今天討論這個祖國論 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
26365.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
26382.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
對岸沒有任何反應我再請教雙數國慶即將來臨我們今天期待我們賴總統在對國人跟國際的這一些論述的話是不是又挑起 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
26383.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
26405.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
這個祖國人挑起兩岸之間的神經那院長你回答一下希望也能夠賴總統聽到國人的期盼是希望和諧兩岸之間的和平而不是挑起待會我要問部長談非論來你回答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
26406.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
26430.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
報告委員總統過幾天在雙十國慶上面的講話當然不是我現在預先就能夠知道要講什麼話的但是從前一個晚上10月5號晚上國慶晚會上總統說中華民國是我們的祖國這句話邏輯一定沒有錯而且從歷史的事實看來中華民國存在113年這個歷史也沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
26434.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
26462.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
他的結論是中華民國跟中華人民共和國互不隸屬這個結論也沒有錯其實這個都是挑起了兩岸的神經講本國就好了嘛為什麼一定要講祖國論對不對我們很多在祖國論是他們的對岸的議題不是我們台灣中華民國的國家裡面所講的祖國論當然為什麼一定要 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
26463.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
26466.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
沒有自導自演的這個狀況因為除了我剛剛講的三個沒有錯之外我們也希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
26489.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
26489.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
國際危機組織 你有沒有聽過這個組織 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
26518.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
26543.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
國際危機組織他是非營利的單位他是站在一個國際中立的論述講出了一段話講什麼話就是在報告說賴總統當選之後大陸已軟化的作詞有意是賴政府更容易表達出改善兩岸關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
26545.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
26564.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
的意向但是賴總統以強硬的立場應對北京加劇了緊張的局勢國慶會自委約束但國際危機組織的報告裡面卻告訴了我們台灣的政客卻挑釁或升高其勢請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
26567.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
26593.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
這個就是國際危機組織裡面所表達的因為在國際間他是認同這個國際危機組織的這個非營利的單位所表達的論述所以這個就是一個很明白的站在一個中立但是對我們國內來講我們常常會講一些意識形態的議題那部長你的看法勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
26595.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
26615.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
我想總統的態度應該也都是在維持台海整個乃至於整個印太區域和平的這個觀點來從事相關的一個論述我們沒有無意要挑釁那跟委員報告我想您也可以看到每天共機擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
26617.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
26637.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
進行軍事的恫嚇來越過中線洗澡然後軍艦在我們台海的周邊來環繞這個部分進行這樣挑釁迫害台海乃至印太的區域和平包括在南海跟東海這個都看得出來是中國在做我們沒有在製造這個挑釁的作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
26638.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
26664.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
我想賴總統描述的也是一個客觀的事實也沒有再做任何挑釁的我想一個我站在一個比較中肯的角度來看來分享給院長國防部長第一個我們在過去裡面請問一下我們會常常有這樣的一個這個他們的潛艦在繞近到近向到我們12海裡有嗎在過去沒有為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
26665.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
26677.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
因為我們的論述沒有去挑釁可是現在的論述一直在挑釁然後我們自己國人下阻自己的國人然後自己緊張那祖國論是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
26678.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
26703.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
國安高層裏面的放話來嚇阻我們國人這就是一個很多的一些異象很多的脈絡才會產生今天為什麼有很多的共青裏面的潛艦一直繞台繞台原因在哪裡就是因為我們今天的論述一直在挑釁論述一直在挑釁我們今天講的另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
26705.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
26724.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
我想一直在挑釁的是中國,中國每天都在以軍事兵力的洗腦在挑釁我們武力犯台是過去我們一直不會說武力犯台,也沒有人去承認,也沒有人去否認,但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
26726.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
26751.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
台灣有些高層就是一直主張挑釁的論述所以產生今天為什麼會我們兩岸之間的緊張的局勢都會產生原因就在這裡第二個關於全社會防疫韌性政策好這韌性政策裡面就會有什麼有五大的涵蓋五大的主軸第一個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
26752.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
26753.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
好今天我們如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
26781.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
26810.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
在真正動全員動力然後40萬名令如果再以按照今天的報告的結果有將近七成都不同意這七成不同意的話怎麼辦你如果你這論述你要召集這個所謂的這個全社會防衛任性委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
26811.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
26812.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
跟委員報告齁我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
26839.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
26862.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
要維持一個韌性的台灣要能夠防備任何的緊急事態的一個發生我們一定要強調我們全社會的一個韌性所以這個重點是在我們要強調整個全社會的一個韌性這樣的韌性越強我們才有辦法讓這個中國一直表示不放棄以武力併吞台灣的這個企圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
26864.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
26884.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
透過我們這個韌性透過我們國軍的自我防衛的能力的決心一直在加強之後才能夠有效的嚇阻中國不敢輕易的冒進那我想這個全民防衛這個全社會防衛韌性委員會的目的也就是在目標就是在國家面臨災害或緊急狀況的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
26886.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
26899.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
他可以維持整個政府跟社會核心功能的持續運作這是很重要的一個任性台灣的建設的項目之一那如果說大家沒有辦法維持這樣的一個任性 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
26901.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
26920.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
我們就沒有辦法能夠足夠的產生一個嚇阻力量那你剛剛的命題我要說的是那有超過8成5以上的人都主張要維持現狀那維持現狀在中國看起來我想他也是不能他也是一種挑釁 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
26921.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
26943.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
他就是不能夠接受第一個我剛剛前面所談的國軍的螺絲現在在鬆懈了如果我們今天把國軍的戰備戰力我們的國軍的信念有數的話請問我們還有民兵嗎我們以前有召集過啊召集令一個禮拜 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
26997.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
26998.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
徐巧興委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
27029.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
27031.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
謝謝 謝謝院長 那我們有請這個 請開門等一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
27059.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
27059.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
麻煩請卓院長備選 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
27090.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
27117.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
徐委員好院長好我第一個想問的是國家級警報在2024年1月9號大選前曾經發布過那時候還把衛星寫成飛彈造成了人民的恐慌這一次在雙十國慶的前夕不僅不知名的國安高層放了消息告訴大家大陸準備要進行還台的軍演 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
27118.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
27124.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
國防部也發了新聞稿說明對方將在雙十國慶發布會經過我國ADIZ的衛星那請問這次會發布國家急警報嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
27129.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
27147.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
先跟我們報告您說的第一次在1月份的那個警報確實在用詞上不夠精準是我想各個相關的單位也做過事後的檢討那已經有相當的改進我想未來這種事情不至於發生那至於說現在在國慶之前在台灣海峽上面確實 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
27149.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
27171.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
這段時間以來都有一些大大小小的各種在中國海空軍的演習是真的那我們也充分掌握各種動向我還是認為對國家的安全沒有妨礙對人民的安心我們要讓人民感覺到我們在國慶日當天因為目前國防部已經發布了這個知道了10月10號的時候會有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
27172.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
27177.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
我們現在所獲得的情緒理解它是就由西艙發射之後往西太平洋的方向飛行那會經過我們台灣防空的識別區 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
27195.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
27207.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
但在經過我們這裡的時候應該已經高度已經卡門線了沒有預計發布就對了但是我們仍然會應用各種的行政手段來掌握整個彈道的方向這下要問的是顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
27215.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
27242.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
剛才您已經證實在清泉崗基地發生的這個悲劇是有一名士兵身亡令人感到遺憾但是這個過程也非常的懸疑到目前為止都沒有辦法確認該員重槍的原因是什麼是自槍是操作不當還是被榴彈打到所以我想請部長現場替我們說明空軍執行T91步槍的打靶射擊從打靶到輕槍的SOP是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
27244.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
27256.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
我想細節的這個部分我現在也沒有辦法能夠詳細的回答為什麼不能詳細的回答因為你問的是等於是打靶的流程的一個SOP對啊 您當貨幣嗎對 那我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
27260.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
27261.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
我問的是T91鋪槍的打靶射擊從打靶到輕槍的SOP |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
27284.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
27288.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
您是新任的部長,但是這些SOP您應該要了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
27299.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
27324.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
因為呢我給您一些時間因為您不是軍人部長出身但是我必須也很坦誠的告訴你這是一個國防部長應該最基本要了解的然後國軍向我反映今天有國軍向我反映他說每一次打靶的時候他都很害怕因為輕槍的人第一很多人沒有按照程序來 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
27325.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
27346.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
打彈時安全軍官以為處理好了結果槍枝還是故障有時候是檢查的人有問題有時候根本就是槍枝故障有問題所以這邊要特別跟部長來拜託調查的時候請不要只推給士兵說他不清楚流程自己疏失 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
27347.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
27367.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
人既然是非自然死亡我認為也應該請檢調一起進來查核而且這不是單一士兵的擔憂是許多軍人都有的共同恐懼國防部應該要全面的改善跟檢討打打槍支以及槍支檢查的SOP部長可以做到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
27367.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
27384.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
是我想委員的指教是對的我想我下去之後根據這個事件我會要求全面的釐清相關事情這個不幸事件發生的經過那整個您剛剛提到的整個SOP他有沒有做到那應有的SOP是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
27385.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
27405.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
那我一清之後再跟委員做一個詳細的報告好那接下來呢兩位也都請留步首先我們要來請教的是這個PDA總統的提用權也就是美國免費的提供臺灣軍事援助那我們是不用出錢的本來是美式一裝這個院長應該也非常的清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
27407.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
27421.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
去年7月底美國白宮首度宣布要動用PDA美國總統提用權對台灣軍事價值提供3.45億美元也就是110億台幣的裝備這聽起來非常的美好 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
27425.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
27453.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
但是呢在今年的9月11號美國白宮呢他們也在這個國防部的檢查總長發出的針對美國國防部用的這個總統提用權提供給臺灣裝備之追蹤監察評估報告裡面說明了這些PDA裝備沒有進行有效的品質管理你可以看到上面發布的單位是美國的Inspector General那請問一下我先問一下卓院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
27454.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
27464.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
您有看過這份報告嗎 院長 詳細報告的內容沒有全部看到 但知道這個過程那部長請問您有看過這份報告嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
27466.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
27494.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
他們有跟我做過相關的簡報OK做簡報好那既然是這樣的話齁那我先問一下院長齁因為這題是院長的要確認一下院長對國政是否瞭解那請部長先稍等一下這3.45億的PDA項目目前有多少抵達台灣了這個應該是要問部長要先問你等一下會問他這個我真的你不確定這個我不會每天去問多少進度在這裡好那個部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
27496.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
27501.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
我問的是多少比例已經來到臺灣了?3.45億的第一批我們正在跟美國的國安部互相協調我們在跟美國的國安部在協調3.45億的第一批100%已經抵達臺灣了報告裡面都有寫 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
27523.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
27538.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
報告裡面都有寫來我們看一下那你一定就也不知道3.451裡面的第一批貨送往臺灣的時間點在什麼時候吧因為前面一個問題你都不知道了後面一個問題顯然你也不知道沒關係那我直接告訴大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
27539.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
27560.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
頭兩架飛機飛來台灣是在去年的12月底左右那這個騎乘是去年的12月底一路到今年的3月中這是第一批美國的PDA他開始提供台灣軍軍事的支援從去年的12月到今年的3月中左右的這一段時間那一共就是110億元的軍事協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
27564.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
27584.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
但是我們從去年底到3月中左右收到的第一批PDA的軍備卻是長這樣我們看一下各種發霉或是受潮的情況請問國防部是在審的時候知道PDA的軍備我們所收到的有這樣子受損跟發霉的損壞這件事情的 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
27585.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
27585.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
請問如何處理? |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
27610.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
27638.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
檢診之後就要去檢查這些防彈背心跟您提到的這些彈藥本身還是不是堪用我們最後檢診的結果還是堪用不過我們在程序上我們認為這個程序就是說它在交運的這個程序的過程當中有這樣的疏失我們還是要求要改善好的 了解我們看一下那個站板的圖片好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
27639.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
27664.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
讓這個部長那個對他是這樣子一箱一箱運進來的你可以看到這個圖片他是這樣一箱一箱運進來的那因為那個底下一個一個的站板我們用那個站板來做計算的話他這個一塊一塊的站板他就是一箱一箱的運那請問一下以這個站板的數量來做計算的話請問國防部知道有多少的比例是有受潮的情況嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
27666.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
27667.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
可是他是一個公開的報告呀 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
27696.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
27712.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
對那這一個部分呢只是在其中的我只能告訴你就是說67%我不想浪費時間了我現在所說的東西都不是秘密他是公開在網路上可以看到的美國公開的報告67%的 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
27716.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
27734.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
這樣子運過來的產品它都是受潮的我們接下來繼續看如果您講的是黃蛋背信的話黃蛋背信我們接受原證的這個項目有好幾萬到十幾萬件不等只有4000餘件是受潮發明的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
27736.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
27761.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
這個我想黃彈背信的部分是這樣子彈的部分大概您提到了大概是就是說有些是期限的問題但是我跟您提就是說傳統的彈藥是批號彈藥裡面它並其實並沒有期限問題所以它還是要經過檢診之後算是堪不堪用經過檢診之後還是可以堪用所以最重要的是抗彈板的部分你們要確定絕對不能再用了 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
27761.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
27782.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
因為呢 其實像防彈衣 抗彈板 子彈跟搬用機槍的部分都很多有受潮 損毀 發霉跟包裝不良的用品所以它被局部公開了接下來 國軍確實花了數週整理烘乾跟庫存受損的軍品我想請問 我們國軍針對這一批受損的 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
27786.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
27813.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
PDA裝備我們有沒有花經費來做處理處置跟委員報告我想我們已經我剛剛已經已經有透露一些我們接受了一些狀況了但是我不想我不覺得我應該要再進一步就每一項的品項跟跟委員在不是每一項就是整體而言我現在要說明的就是剛剛已經說了是少量的狀況有 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
27814.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
27828.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
那我們少量狀況那經過跟美方反映那也共同來檢診之後我們認為是可以堪用的那這個本身就是應用我們自己本身的很少量嗎美國國防部光是他們自己在回收這一批東西花了2405個小時花了62萬美金 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
27833.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
27856.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
也花了另外11萬美金去更換105個防彈板跟3件戰術背心然後這是還沒有運到台灣的部分那我們台灣也花了好幾個禮拜針對受潮發媒的PDA裝備進行拆包乾燥跟盤點而且根據報告裡面來說我們國軍是有出資的我想請問我們花了多少錢在 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
27857.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
27863.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
免費的最貴的這件事情上面是用自動支了哪一筆的預算來做相關的盤整 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
27865.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
27887.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
我覺得我要跟委員報告我們接受的您剛也提到了這個公開的資料顯示它這是110億的一個這麼大的一個款項接受的這個項目跟時間我們認為是屬於機密不宜公開那其中有四千餘件是受潮發明的這個狀況我們本身應用我們自己既有的這個維持的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
27891.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
27895.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
那請問這些受潮損壞的東西會被計算在第一批的3.45億美元的PDA扣打裡面嗎?沒有沒有 有些不堪用退回去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
27913.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
27915.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
跟委員報告我不曉得您的資訊的來源是哪裡紫色的那一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
27927.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
27953.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
我剛已經告訴你了是Inspector General他們美國的檢察院的這公開的報告我剛也問你們有沒有看過一位告訴我說有向林檢報過一位告訴我說你們知情然後知道有這樣子的一個說明我所有剛剛提出的每一個內容每一個都是從報告裡面的公開資訊你們不要自己沒有看報告的細節跟內容然後就說這個是秘密 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
27954.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
27977.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
這沒有在網路上都能夠查得到的事情那這是我接收到的狀況也沒有錯阿來自於美方的報告也沒有錯阿好最後我時間真的很不夠最後看一下最後一張好不好是我們都是提到已經交易的部分來看最後一張這上面都是寫到我們接收的狀況他是根據來到台灣的PDA做的整個調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
27984.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
27996.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
最後我們向你們所知我們在驗貨的時候我們是由美方押運人員與國防部負責簽收報關及出關作業但在他們的調查裡面是 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
28010.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
28011.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
主席有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備選 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
28041.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
28061.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
議員長首先我要真的在這個正式的國會典當當中表達我們博軍在這次救災當中的權力資源尤其在重創高雄的兩個月內的颱風在這邊我深深的一鞠躬感謝第二個也針對剛才所發生的事故我們士兵在訓練當中貫穿臉部 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
28065.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
28084.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
而死亡本席在這邊希望得到院長兩個承諾第一個趕快的加速調查原因第二個後端的撫恤我想這也是我們現在的家屬最難過的時候所以部長您怎麼來看這本席的這兩個的訴求 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
28086.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
28115.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
報告委員除了剛剛部長在這裡﹖就初步手上資料答覆之外﹖我們會請空軍指令部﹖會做統一的調查跟說明﹖這個一定給家屬﹖也給社會一個清楚的交代﹖同時用這個事件﹖對貴來軍方﹖在打靶訓練過程當中﹖如何做得更安全﹖那當然是一個重要的課題﹖我們會嚴肅的面對在撫恤的部分 院面在這邊也做個﹖在之後的報告公開的這個公告的時候﹖也做個說明了 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
28116.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
28145.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
復續的部分復續復續我們當然這個我們當然會按照規定來然後我們來從優來復續好從優復續好本期這個正式質詢這個孤軍後裔回國國家的承諾不能再延遲第一個我針對亞西亞的孤兒孤軍的援取做個說明第二個孤軍在國外的狀況跟國內在辦理國際上的困境最後本期有具體的要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
28145.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
28162.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
人權作家博洋在議遇書中有提到一群被遺忘的人他們戰死便與草木同袖他們戰勝仍是天地不容這一群人他認定他是中華民國的國籍可是他卻不能回歸中華民國這個祖國 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
28166.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
28185.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
雅夏姑兒追溯到1949年國共內戰勢力後﹐隨後在當地也成立了一支非常特殊的軍事力量﹐當初策隊來台11300多人﹐在當地的社會當中是受到歧視跟排擠的﹐ |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
28187.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
28215.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
這個在當地當中也沒有辦法有他的身份所以他們所面對的困境就是在在當地當中的教學醫療是嚴重受到限制的因為他沒有正式的身份證而也因為沒有身份證缺乏合法的工作機會後後裔其後裔的家庭是生活貧困的依賴低薪或不穩定的工作在就業困難導致經濟困境在當地當中就會是社會地位邊緣化 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
28216.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
28234.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
到我們國內來的時候目前有列管在案包括他後裔總共有16萬人但是還未處理的我相信國防部這邊也應該有列管有將近1萬多人所以本席現在是針對這1萬多個 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
28236.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
28253.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
沒有國籍在臺灣的人來發聲臺灣長期透過喬生回國生學教育吸引的海外所以我們的泰緬的喬生來臺所以這一群人很多是以學生的身份居留來臺過期之後他們就 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
28256.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
28281.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
回不去因為在那邊沒有身分證所以他也不能回去所以在他這邊他又因為這個學期也到所以變成了黑戶的困境所以在政府有曾經啟動3次的啟動專案最後一次所遺留下來的出谷也有超過1萬人根據監察院的報告為了因應這個制裁 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
28282.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
28306.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
太免的裝案我們曾經最後一次的開放只有兩天2008年的7月15號到16就兩天結果登記875人那這個案件涉及的政府機關很多國防部、僑委會、外交部、內政部的副政司、移民署所以光是機關依法要求說你要有出身證明 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
28307.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
28325.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
這件事情就這麼一個初步的一個政見非常的困難那時候的緬甸局勢是因內戰而動盪不安而且當時是有排華是幾乎是消滅式的排華在逃亡過程當中不可能有這些身份證的遺留 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
28326.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
28343.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
而且就人權的角度許多在泰民地區並未擁有國籍在台灣他又以非法身份拘留他們並不是惡意要規劃為台灣人民而是他們自己認定我就是中華人民共和國就是中華人民的我們台灣的這個國家的國人 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
28347.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
28366.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
好 這個也因為政府在戰亂當中國家開出的支票至今未兌現國家開出了什麼這個假撤退 真留守所以這群人說好啦我們這個不管是在蔣介石時代或者蔣經國時代我們就要撤退但是還是讓他們真正的留守在當地 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
28366.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
28389.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
所以真的是大概60%的人就是為國犧牲僅有3%的人能夠回到台灣對於他們身為台灣人民對於在國家認同的路上是非常艱辛的所以在我們孤軍的第一代已經逐漸的去世了第二代也接受在當地當中也接受中華民國的傳統教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
28397.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
28421.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
那包括呢在這個孤軍後裔啊他們都形容自己像流浪狗一樣只因為他沒有身份跟拘留證也沒有辦法享有健保在台灣他們的窘境是什麼從事黑工工資也常常被剝削例如工地的出工的日薪是1800他們卻只能拿到800塊那在也不敢向業主反映也因為怕被檢舉生病的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
28421.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
28426.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
在我們台灣當中已經形成的一個區域的特色比如新北市的中華新街地區桃園中正新村眷村文化中橫的博旺社區高雄的美容金工社區 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
28449.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
28467.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
但是在相關他們沒有規劃國籍的後裔其實都散在這些區域當中好那這個一樣的故事兩樣其實在本辦所接觸的各個案例當中我就舉一個最明顯的一對兄妹同父同母妹妹是喬生的身份回國所以他獲得中華人 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
28469.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
28497.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
獲得中華民國公民的身份就是我們臺灣籍而哥哥就是以外籍的身份來就讀他是沒有辦法取得公民的身份那所以直到只能被遣返回去之後他就以外配的身份留在臺灣那現在也可以取得中華民國身份證可是他不願意因為他如果現在申請的話他的資格叫做外配可是這一位陳情人他說 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
28498.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
28498.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
議員長施政報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
28516.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
28516.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].start |
28538.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].end |
28553.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].text |
是的 在學生時代也看過《抑鬱》這本書啦當時也是看到熱血沸騰 非常感動那我所知道在112年我們做過一次的處理 行政做過一次處理那個結論其中一項就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].start |
28555.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].end |
28568.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].text |
這是當時所做的決定已經是最終的處理所以比照97年的決議來做處理依照移民法 讓這些人進來所以本席才講說你願不願意評估評估啟動第4次我們現在看看第3次所做的這個決定為什麼是最終決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].start |
28577.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].end |
28599.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].text |
小委會這邊有比較清楚﹖所以你願意﹖那如果說之後有新的狀況發生﹖那足以再讓我們啟動的話﹖現在本期就告訴你這個資料啦﹖還有1萬多人啊﹖1萬多人無國籍啊﹖來在台灣他現在就成為黑富王﹖他現在上班工作就是黑富王﹖拿著薪資少﹖就醫沒有權力﹖就學沒有權力﹖ |
| transcript.whisperx[723].start |
28602.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].end |
28617.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].text |
那能不能依照112年所做的決定就是依照97年所做的決議依照這個移民法來做相關的處理院長我還是這樣您願不願把這邊還是交入評估因為他跨部會您主責一個政委 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].start |
28617.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].end |
28636.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].text |
那我們認真的評估這樣的一個第4次或者也就是說你院長在任願意就是呢做事這樣的黑戶繼續在台灣生存讓他自生自滅沒有國籍沒有身分證沒有就醫權竟然我們容許台灣人權的國家容許這樣的狀況在台灣發繼續 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].start |
28638.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].end |
28639.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].text |
委員 因為我們沒有看到這一萬多人的真實資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].start |
28654.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].end |
28671.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].text |
那因為最後一次的專案處理到現在97年的原則都還是有效的那你願不願意做評估呢都還是有效我們都可以先了解這一萬多人的具體資料如果照委員現在所述那可能他現在叫做非法拘留的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].start |
28673.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].end |
28675.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].text |
我只讓你評估,我沒有叫你一定要承諾本席喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].start |
28694.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].end |
28709.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].text |
對於一個人權的國家我們怎麼可以容許我們自己認定為台灣人的一個國人他們回歸自己台灣的祖國竟然我們還做事是不是願意啟動第4次評估呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].start |
28709.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].end |
28710.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].text |
跟委員報告事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].start |
28739.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].end |
28765.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].text |
這個國軍後裔證明他是第一部好 院長您願不願意啟動這樣第4次的專案 評估這個評估就是我們收集資料再跟委員請教還是秘書長還是你要讓國防部來做主責 我也沒意見但絕對不要是僑委會 對不起我沒有 僑委會國防部跟內政部 我們來手上的資料再跟委員請教 把委員的資料提供主軸單位是誰 我不想聯絡那麼多部會 主軸單位是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].start |
28767.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].end |
28793.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].text |
我們是不是如果是移民法我們請內政部內政部移民署做主責來跟委員把資料收集資料我們來對對看需要往後走我們就繼續看怎麼方式來處理所以你還不願意啟動第4次的評估先收集資料嗎這個就是一個過程我想院長您既然是國家的行政院長請你把格局拿高我本人實在很難忍受 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].start |
28794.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].end |
28809.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].text |
我本期不能忍受一個人權自由民主的國家我們還容許有黑富在台灣而且他們重新就是認定我就是台灣人我要取得中華民國的國籍本期這個是人權民主的價值 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].start |
28811.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].end |
28822.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].text |
委員我們不曉得這一萬多人已經在臺灣居留多久而且如果他們是在97年以前就進來的那表示你是要代替院長做這個評估嗎好 院長請回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].start |
28827.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].end |
28843.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].text |
我剛跟委員報告過了我們請內政部把所有的資料所以你不願意做第4個評估先做收集資料這就是一個過程嘛就從這樣開始那如果這個資料收集出來確實這麼多人在這依照現在的法律依照現在的法律沒有辦法處理我們會進行以下的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].start |
28843.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].end |
28859.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].text |
好 那兩個月內 完成資料的收整 也請委員提供好的 兩個月內 請內政部來收整這樣的資料 好 以上謝謝謝謝委員謝謝林黛化委員的質詢 謝謝卓院長跟相關部會所長的備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].start |
28865.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].end |
28894.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].text |
辦委會本日排定質詢的委員均已經質詢完畢謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長的列席答詢現在做以下決定下次會議進行經濟組織質詢我們現在繼續處理復議案本院民進黨黨團針對第二次會議報告事項第三案及第四案之決定提出復議請公決案現做以下決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].start |
28894.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].end |
28899.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].text |
我們另定其處理報言會本次會議進行到此為止我們現在散會 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-10-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第2會期第3次會議（事由：對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢） |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:15 - 16:35:00 |
| IVOD_ID |
16154 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16154 |
| 日期 |
2024-10-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-2-3 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
2 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第2會期第3次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-10-08T08:30:15+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-10-08T16:35:00+08:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |