| IVOD_ID |
161527 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161527 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
17 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-19T09:29:45+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-19T09:44:41+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:14:56 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ecb6f54fb5d604f05e99f91cead1aaea239b9191e0d12eea8b7b28ebcc841bb41d80c1a84178aff75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王義川 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:29:45 - 09:44:41 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、國家通訊傳播委員會代理主任委員、內政部警政署署長、中央選舉委員會、數位發展部、個人資料保護委員會籌備處及中華電信股份有限公司率所屬相關單位列席就「民眾反應收到罷免連署簡訊，顯非商業廣告目的利用，質疑個資洩漏而侵害人民權益」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【5月19日及21日兩天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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好 謝謝主席 我們請法務部副局長麻煩法務部然後這個中選會的代表跟數位部的代表 謝謝中選會 好 數法部委員長好還有調查局 對好 麻煩副局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
40.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
63.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
我先請教調查局的這個副局長先請教你的原因是因為你們的報告寫得最好這個把所謂的簡訊的分類寫得非常清楚簡訊的來源不是只有我們有手機號碼會收到各式各樣我們用網路購物獲到了也會收到簡訊各式各樣的這個分類 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
66.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
95.328 |
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那我先想要請教一下就是說這一個發送簡訊啊發送簡訊的人有問題還是提供提供這個這個電話給發送簡訊的單位如果違反各執法是哪一個哪一個有問題報言這個可能要看事實的個案來做認定好我現在假設假設今天召委排了這個題目啊就是說有人收到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
97.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
124.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
這個簡訊那請他來參與連署嘛假設是這樣那請他參與連署那一定是一定是這個電信公司收到有人給了他一個名冊或者叫電話然後就丟給了這個電信公司付了錢給電信公司那電信公司就傳給了這個不管是手機收到簡訊的人那如果違反個資法那發送訊號發送訊息的這個電信公司有沒有事 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
125.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
150.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那可能因為如果所有行為的分擔有翻譯的聯絡可能有共犯的問題但是像您講的這個狀況我們不知道他彼此之間聯繫的這個狀況所以還是要看個案的實際就是說我現在假設我有一千個電話號碼我就交給了假設叫中華電信我有一千個電話號碼我交給了中華電信請他幫我傳這些文字那中華電信有沒有事 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
151.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
178.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
中央電信他如果只是接受委託的話他可能在看起來是沒有犯罪的這個意圖也沒有跟他做一個犯罪行為分擔的這個狀況的話那從您講的這樣的表象看起來可能不會有犯罪的問題但是個案還是我們會如果有個案的犯罪我們還是提報到基金署好 這個我了解了第二個請這個法務部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
180.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
205.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我們在選舉前 或者是在罷免前我們都會收到 請踴躍投票會吧 應該會吧 請踴躍投票就是不管是誰傳來的 請踴躍投票那如果有人收到 請不要去投票如果有人收到 請去連署有人收到 請不要去連署 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
206.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
231.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
這四種嘛 只有我收到訊息 請去投票 請不要去投票 請參與連署 請不要參與連署這四件事情 如果按照這個各執法是損害個人 他人個人的利益的時候這四種文字 哪一種會損害到個人的利益 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
233.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
258.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
最主要是因為他有那個電話電話的通訊的一個一個號碼所以他那個簡訊才會發到這些這些民眾的手裡對那所以這個是這怎麼那個那個個人資料是怎麼來的這個可能還要再去做一個了解但是我想這個應該是屬於各自法的問題這個收集處理利用這是一個怎麼是收集的 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
258.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
279.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
怎麼去處理對 我知道 這收集來處理嘛處理完之後我傳一個訊息給你嘛那是我個人認為我的利益受損我就可以去告發還是怎麼樣他那個如果說當然如果說用戶來講他認為有受損他認為有合乎各支法的那個41條或等其他的相關的規定的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
281.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
307.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那當然可以去檢舉或者去做一個告發那這樣檢察官當然一辦案的就會依法來處理看來調查看會不會成立這個請中選會我剛剛提的那四個投票前有人通知你說請永樂投票或者是說這個反罷免的一方啊他說這個反正你們投票也不會超過25%啦請不要投票 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
309.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
333.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
或者現在還有在連署的請踴躍連署或者發一個訊息說請不要去連署這個中選會這四個你們管不管有沒有哪一個妨礙選舉包委員如果說是支持或反對罷免活動的話那我想這個都是罷免宣傳的一種態樣那除非說他那選舉呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
334.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
359.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
選舉也是一樣請不要投票這個我想這個請這個都是一種宣傳的一種行為都可以嗎像以前這個公投的時候啊就有人就什麼貼一個貼紙說請不要投就請不要投好所以這個對於這個訊息的內容基本上中選會不管我講了這四種你們不管 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
360.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
375.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
如果是宣傳的行為的話 支持或是不支持我想這個都是宣傳行為的一種好所以這個宣傳說請不要投票請去投票請參加罷免請不要罷免對中選會來說這四個都沒有問題如果是單純的宣傳行為應該是沒有違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
380.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
384.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
除非有人非法利用他人的資料來傳送那非法就請教部長我最近收到叫我去驗車的通知 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
403.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
414.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我當時去驗車的時候我留下資料的時候他也沒有說什麼五年後會聯絡我啊現在聯絡我的是好幾年前我去驗車的一個民間的代檢場啊他怎麼可以傳簡訊給我 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
420.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
441.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
可能就是那個代監場有那個客戶的一些的資料這是如何去蒐集當然我們這個就可以啦這個是在我們各執法裡面的規定像那個28條跟29條它裡面公務機關這個是應該是屬於29規公務機關違反本法規定自個人資料遭受不法蒐集處理利用其他 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
442.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
464.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
侵害當事人權利這個要負損害賠償責任但若證明無故意或過失不再直線所以這個有沒有這個還要做個案的做一個認定做一個認定那事實上整個一個太樣很多那這個是因為各自法的主管機關在一個解釋如何非法好 說起處理用這個要個人資料保護 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
466.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
472.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
籌備處好那我們就有沒有代表來這個數位部的代表籌備處來請問一下不好意思請問一下我們現在去餐廳訂位子打電話去今天晚上八點王先生試會對方問我說請問手機號碼我就留給他了他只有問這樣我就會留給他大部分都這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
496.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
498.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
過了一個月以後他傳了一個簡訊給我 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
501.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
528.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
說 欸 歡迎你再來吃啦 我們最近打五折我沒有答應他再傳給我啊這樣有沒有違反個資法是 因為一開始如果說是在定位的時候他可能會是有一個契約或類似契約的關係那這個時候依照個資法的規定他是可以蒐集必要的個人資料例如手機號碼但是 之後他如果要做行銷之用的話其實還是需要經過當事人的同意才能夠做這個行銷你在說什麼 這條就嚴重了 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
531.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
533.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這條這麼嚴重你今天講完之後這事情還蠻嚴重的我們打電話去餐廳他都問我電話號碼嘛這合理嘛我們好像覺得很合理啦因為我剛剛講說我不要給你電話 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
544.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
573.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
他說那我沒辦法讓你定位喔那我就留電話給你了那留了電話給你之後他也許時間到了我遲到5分鐘他會轉簡訊給我說你遲到你到底有沒有要來對不對過了一個月之後他給我行銷了嘛他給我行銷那給我行銷這個動作在你們現在的認定裡頭他也沒有徵得我同意嘛他就是在電話中我也沒有看那個熱熱等的文字嘛我們有時候去簽一大堆他叫我看一堆文字然後說什麼保護啊這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
574.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
582.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那現在他如果這種情形 他又傳給了消費者有人去檢舉說 我上次去吃完之後 他又傳簡訊給我 你們要怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
584.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
613.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
就依照目前以往不管是在法務部或是國發會或是我們現在籌備處的韓式的見解就是說當你在做行銷的時候因為它跟一開始它是接受定位的這樣的一個目的是有一點不太一樣的那因為它是不同的目的所以它其實是需要額外在經過當事人的同意說我願意讓你用我的電話號碼做行銷那如果說沒有這樣的一個同意的話基本上確實可能會有違反各自法的這個疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
614.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
621.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
唉唷,那這個事情就麻煩了,這個再請法務部或司法院,大家開一下會,因為這個會很普遍。 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
622.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
648.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
會很普遍啦 我們一般消費者就留電話給人家嘛那留了之後以後又收到如果我不開心了我可不可以去告發他說你又沒有徵得我同意你怎麼老是傳簡訊給我好 最後一個我們參加活動 愛情部長我們參加活動會留下很多的資料參加社團 坐遊覽車 保險 旅遊都會留下蠻多跟個人資訊有關的這個訊息啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
651.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
670.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那如果這一個剛剛講這個電信公司收到了一組電話號碼假設一千個電話號碼然後他就幫我傳了一個訊息可是這一千組的電話號碼我交給電信公司的時候就是這個委託人交給電信公司的時候其實他也不知道那一千組哪裡來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
672.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
688.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
因為一千組可能是攬攬攬攬攬一通就對了本來這個社團已經二十年了這個社團都有這些社員的名冊或各式各樣的社團的名冊那這個已經攬攬攬攬攬了很久之後大家也都一直傳一傳就沒有事啊結果呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
691.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
707.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這是有人告發 假設啦 假設他不知道為什麼 目的他告發說 欸 你怎麼有我的電話碼 你怎麼傳簡訊給我未必是跟政治有關啦 就是一般的這樣子那如果有人去告發了 那回頭去找這個提供電話的人啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
708.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
712.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
啊你如果有這個電話,你如果拿到中華電信給你傳訊,這個電話對對來這個承辦人可能說,這個電話我們社團已經二三十年了,就都這個電話啊結果這個提供的人,現在也許會出事嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
724.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
742.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這部分事實上因為提供說不定可能就是一個收集保有這些個人資料的最原始的那個或者是輾轉來的那剛才11條的話是個人資料的收集的特定目的消失所以本來譬如說我們為了旅行做一個名冊裡面有一些聯絡資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
743.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
771.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那如果說這個特定的目的當是為了旅遊或者某一個特定目的或者期限屆滿這個屆滿的時候那個當然收集處理的那一位當然就要依主動或依當事人之請求刪除停止處理或利用個人資料但是如果執行職或業務所必須或經當事人署名同意那不再執行所以這個還是要看那個要看個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
772.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
787.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
個案來處理有沒有同意或者有沒有那個個案的情形這個有一條界線啦你想說我常常收到我以前是台中嘛收到台中很多的市議員叫我沒感動的還有以前的議長祝我生日快樂我當然可能有留電話給他我名片有留電話給他可是我現在叫他不好啊我現在跟他不好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
797.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
826.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那他傳給我生日快樂我覺得你怎麼會有我的電話號碼他那個事實上據各自法也不是都是因為他第一條裡面就有規定這個因為他是做一個平衡他自己是為了規範個人資料的蒐集處理利用以避免人格而前受到侵害並促進個人資料的合理使用還有那個合理使用所以如果有些資料說祝你生日快樂我是認為是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
829.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
842.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
電話號碼是一個經營社會生活必要的工具就像我們這個連,這個都是屬於個人的所以這都是屬於個人資料的有些的一個範圍我舉這個例子只是說因為我們到處都會留下我們的電話號碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
852.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
875.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我們也常常收到簡訊我們也不知道那個簡訊是我在哪裡留下電話號碼而收到的簡訊所以個人的利益受損或者是他不當的利用這些資料的這一條界線可能也要有一個清楚讓民眾知道像剛剛提到說我去餐廳訂餐廳這間餐廳兩三個月架一個行銷方案給我 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
880.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
896.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
中間那條線搞不好有跨過去因為他也沒有我書面同意諸如此類的事情我覺得這個可能相關的單位找個機會給民眾一個共同的答案讓大家包括商家也可以有一個依詢以上 謝謝 |