| IVOD_ID |
161447 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161447 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-20-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
12 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-15T11:50:50+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-15T12:02:34+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:44 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fcea13637980d1819208c8ff40a61002139dba296d6b924fd866399efa143b9786617f26213d19805ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鍾佳濱 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:50:50 - 12:02:34 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理中華民國114年度中央政府總預算決議有關財政部主管預算凍結書面報告案62案、有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案4案及有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案18案。【報告事項】
二、處理中華民國114年度中央政府總預算決議有關財政部主管預算凍結專案報告案17案及有關行政院主計總處預算凍結專案報告案1案。【討論事項】
【5月14日及15日二天一次會】） |
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| gazette.lineno |
789 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：（11時50分）主席、在場委員先進、列席的政府機關首長、官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生，有請財政部莊部長，也請賦稅署的宋署長，還有法制處姚處長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請莊部長、宋署長、姚處長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
莊部長翠雲：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：部長好，署長好，還有處長好。部長，我先把最近大家最急的拿來問，就是房屋稅，剛剛好幾位委員都問過了，我先請教一下，你看一看這幾個報紙上寫的亂象，剛剛有李彥秀委員問到，獨立權狀的車位被另外課稅，事前你們有發現這個情況嗎？沒有想過？ |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
莊部長翠雲：我們知道這個情況，但是我們沒有想到，新北市做了這樣…… |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：所以是地方政府自己的認定造成的？ |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
莊部長翠雲：對，他說將請財政部函釋，我們財政部主動來做函釋。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：另外參與都更，把房屋信託給銀行，結果名下信託房產數量很龐大，委託人雖然是自住，但是稅率還是不太一樣，你們有沒有發現這個情況？ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
莊部長翠雲：他信託還是自住的話，還是自住啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：有沒有發現有這個情況？好，慢慢來，問題狀況很多。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
莊部長翠雲：我們再了解一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：因為新制上路總有陣痛期。人家說房屋稅2.0出包，兩大放寬，因為5月開徵，結果你們提到臺北市因為資料轉換錯誤，然後影響約5萬戶，那你們兩大放寬放寬了什麼？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
莊部長翠雲：兩大放寬第一個就是自住的部分要去設戶籍，過往沒有這樣的要求，所以有一些民眾因為原來是自住，就覺得奇怪怎麼收到稅單，所以這個部分，我們把設戶籍的時間往後延，讓他可以到6月2號寬緩。還有一個出租的部分，因為出租的部分稅率是給比較低，所以放寬房東申報出租的時間。 |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：自住的指定跟出租的申報，好，問一個問題，馬上考你們。可能宋署長在鄉下，父母還有房子跟農地，我舉例：這個宋署長可能會了解，三兄弟的爸爸媽媽住鄉下的農地，上面蓋有農舍，三兄弟長大之後，老大陪爸爸媽媽照顧，農舍老舊，大哥花錢把它整個翻修，但是因為農地跟農舍必須同一所有權人，農地是老爸的，農舍大哥花錢蓋好了，也是登記在老爸名下，後來老爸走了，三兄弟繼承，土地共有持分，那不用講，房子也是共有持分，每個兄弟各持分三分之一，但是大哥住在這裡，戶籍在這裡，老二、老三不在這裡，今年的房屋稅，稅務人員說因為你只自有三分之一，所以你的房屋稅自住優惠只能用三分之一，假設原來是一萬八，你可能有六千塊，降成五千塊，你覺得這樣合理嗎？怎麼解決？署長。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
莊部長翠雲：請署長來說明。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
宋署長秀玲：報告委員，因為委員所描述的案例，基本上是採分別共有的方式，就持分共有，那持分共有當然就房屋所有人是就他持分的部分的房屋稅，如果他是自住，來享受優惠稅率。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：好，那問一下，如果情況發生在你家裡，另外兩兄弟的房屋，他會幫你繳這兩個人的房屋稅嗎？大哥全家都住那裡，房屋稅單收到以後，大哥就把它繳掉了，另外，老二、老三也不會說，大哥，那個三分之二是我們的，房屋稅我們要繳，會不會？不會嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
宋署長秀玲：這個是他們要協調的問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：不，我覺得不能用這樣的說法，這顯然違背了一般社會民眾的認知，而且我問他，稅務機關怎麼回答？他說這樣如果你要符合自用住宅，就請老二、老三把戶籍遷回來，你們三個兄弟房屋共有，三個人的持分都可以減免，是不是這樣做？是要這樣做嗎？這就是你們的解方嘛，部長點頭嘛。人家說看字讀書，按照使用的條文界定，你是要就持有的部分來予以優惠嘛，但是使用是多人共有、一人使用，他有沒有做其他使用？有沒有閒置不使用？來，我們看一下，房屋2.0的目的是針對有多屋者加稅，還是持有多屋閒置者加稅？ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
莊部長翠雲：第一個是尤其閒置者。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：不是多屋嘛，你多屋只要有使用…… |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
莊部長翠雲：但多屋超過一定戶數也會加稅。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：對，就是說不是你有很多房子，我要多課你的稅，是你有很多房子還閒置不拿來使用，是以不使用作為對象，不是對持有很多。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
莊部長翠雲：自住跟非自住也是有區隔。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：對，如果你是出租，我們也歡迎你把它出租出去，不要是投資客持有很多的空屋，自己不住也不讓人家住，也不出租，這是我們要的目的，對不對？打囤房打的是什麼？是囤的行為，不是打房的數量，是不是這樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
莊部長翠雲：數量跟囤有關係。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：加重持有多戶且未有效運用者，這是我們那一年的……很清楚，是不是這樣？加重持有多戶且未有效運用，那有沒有有效運用呢？如果只有單一且供自住，我們減輕，從1.2變成1.0，鼓勵釋出，只要你出租，我們也讓你優惠，對不對？第三個，如果繼承為共有的時候，處分跟利用難以區分，你們也講到了，不能有效利用，跟購屋者不同，我們要不要對非自願持有共有者的稅負？你們就寫了嘛！你們當年修改的時候就訂了嘛！那為什麼不做？ |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
莊部長翠雲：有啊…… |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：那我說的那個狀況符不符合？ |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
莊部長翠雲：不過，我想這樣子，委員的提醒我們會都把它蒐集起來，我們能夠直接函釋就趕快函釋，那有一些地方政府的一些狀況，我們會邀集地方政府來開會，看有沒有需要檢討改進的部分，我們會再持續做這樣的精進，各種狀況都有。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：部長，打火要急呀！等到火把房子都燒光了，救火車才到，人家不感謝你了啦！昨天我們在這個委員會處理了保險法，保險法當中，因為要保人為債務人，債權的強制執行解約抵債的部分，過去這兩、三年製造了很多民怨，昨天我們跟保險局、金管會把它解決了。當時司法院也發布過指引，告訴執行法院什麼樣的保單先暫時不要執行，等著修法。請問這些狀況有需要再對房屋稅法來進行處理嗎？還是只要一個統一的指引就可以？ |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
莊部長翠雲：我想這個部分，我們先不要動法律，在法律不動的情況下，在下面來做調整。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：同意！多久可以弄一個指引？ |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
莊部長翠雲：要不要做成指引，我們先把函釋能趕快出去的先出去。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：函釋，我覺得這樣子啦，部長，要更積極一點，當時司法院就趕快發了個函釋，不是一個函釋，是一個指引，這個指引把很多狀況都涵蓋進去，當然你們現在沒有指引，各地的課徵狀況不同，我希望你趕快制定全國一致的指引。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
莊部長翠雲：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：現在問題來了，接下來他今年的稅怎麼報？不是到6月2號為止，是不是你們應該開始想說，如果根據這個指引，他已經把稅報了，但是新的指引公布之後，稅是可以退的，那你們是不是可以多退少補，還是明年的時候再來處理？因為這個涉及到人民的權利，因為法是因為你的函釋、指引才生效嗎？沒有，我本來根據你的指引，不用繳那麼多房屋稅的，我今年已經繳完了，你明年要不要退？總不能叫他去打行政訴訟吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
莊部長翠雲：我想該退的當然要退。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：所以今天給你一個機會，明確的跟全國的房屋持有人說明，今年的房屋稅亂象其實是陣痛期間，新舊轉型，我們有些始料未及，連立法者我都跟我的選民道歉，我說你們兄弟多人共有、一人使用的情況，我們那時候的確沒有想到，但是現在這個問題，我說一、請你們發布一個統一的指引，在一定期限內，可以做到嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
莊部長翠雲：全國一致的指引這部分，我們會先趕快就個別去做，然後指引也會做。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：第二、指引出來之後，涉及今年的權利義務，是不是在明年可以對他做一個補償？ |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
莊部長翠雲：您說…… |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：明年的時候，明年還是要繳房屋稅啊！他如果今年多繳了，明年就少繳嘛。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
莊部長翠雲：至於怎麼退我們再來討論。 |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：一併在指引公布的時候，告訴全部的房屋所有權人，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
莊部長翠雲：對，我們會跟稅捐機關來做處理。 |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：好，很好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[46][1] |
來，我們看下一頁，接下來就是統一發票。今天我們在談預算的刪減跟凍結，統一發票被刪了18.5億，沒有辦法恢復了，所以1到4月本來雲端發票要多一個獎項500元，只維持245萬組，你們有說維持現在的獎別跟組數，將視給獎的情況滾動式檢討，經過1到4月，5到6月以後有沒有多餘的經費可以來滾動式檢討，增加組數？有沒有辦法？有沒有檢討了？ |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
莊部長翠雲：我想跟委員報告一下，因為統一發票雖然跟去年的組數一樣，可是因為營業稅的收入增加，所以我們希望可以再增加組數，但因為經費被刪了以後，結果增加的組數不如原來的預期，那就相對影響到中獎率，至於調整什麼組數，這要看還有跟…… |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：我是問你們有沒有滾動檢討啦，有滾動檢討，如果有機會補給大家，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
莊部長翠雲：當然要滾動檢討。 |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：第二個像國產署的經費被刪了快1億，增加了國產署手上所持有土地登革熱的風險，其實國產署每年要用很多心力去維持這些國有土地，避免造成地方的登革熱，是不是這樣？現在這預算被刪減了，對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
莊部長翠雲：對，刪減當然會影響到施政的量能。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：所以今天我們的預算有一個解凍，解凍後我希望財政部做一件事情，包括所有單位，解凍後如果恢復了這個錢，就你們剩下來的7個月，恢復解凍後的錢是還足以支應你們原來計畫的，趕快告訴大家，恢復支用，那前面已經損失掉的，因為凍結的時候你前面幾個月受影響，前面如果受影響的部分，因為解凍而恢復了，可不可以去檢討？如果可以恢復的趕快恢復，有些過了就沒辦法恢復了，比如說中獎，1到5月你們開獎組數就那麼少，就算解凍了組數可以增加，也沒有辦法提供過去5個月的中獎率，這沒辦法的，對不對？有辦法的可不可以幫忙檢討改進？ |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
莊部長翠雲：解凍以後我們當然去積極執行，但刪除的部分就沒有辦法再恢復原來的量能。 |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：是的，所以我說分刪除的跟解凍的，刪除的你們滾動式檢討，解凍的你們往後生效的過程當中，檢視有沒有機會填補前面因為凍結而造成的損失，你們予以彌補權益的不足，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
莊部長翠雲：好，我們積極推動。 |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：結論，希望你們在一個月內召集各地方稅務機關，擬具訂定房屋稅課徵統一指引，還有後續繳納辦法的方案，一個月提出來。 |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
莊部長翠雲：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
鍾委員佳濱：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
莊部長翠雲：謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
主席：謝謝鍾佳濱委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[60][1] |
接下來請黃珊珊委員。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
588 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-3-20-12 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
吳秉叡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
顏寬恒 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
林思銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
羅明才 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
葉元之 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
王世堅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
陳玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
521 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2025-05-15 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1144901 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1144901_00008 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、處理中華民國114年度中央政府總預算決議有關財政部主管預算凍結書面報告案 62案、有關
審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案4案及有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案18案；二、處理
中華民國114年度中央政府總預算決議有關財政部主管預算凍結專案報告案 17案及有關行政院主
計總處預算凍結專案報告案1案 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1144901_00007 |