| IVOD_ID |
161411 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161411 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-20-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
12 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-15T09:48:01+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-15T10:00:03+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:12:02 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/fcea13637980d1814c74812e42622959139dba296d6b924ff0cc24d356c57dbc5dd0e9801976862b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
賴士葆 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:48:01 - 10:00:03 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理中華民國114年度中央政府總預算決議有關財政部主管預算凍結書面報告案62案、有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案4案及有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案18案。【報告事項】
二、處理中華民國114年度中央政府總預算決議有關財政部主管預算凍結專案報告案17案及有關行政院主計總處預算凍結專案報告案1案。【討論事項】
【5月14日及15日二天一次會】） |
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| gazette.lineno |
277 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
賴委員士葆：（9時48分）謝謝主席以及各位先進，我們有請財政部莊部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請莊部長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
莊部長翠雲：委員早。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
賴委員士葆：部長早。我怎麼感覺好一段時間沒有看到你。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
賴委員士葆：因為都出國去啊！去菲律賓完就去米蘭。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
莊部長翠雲：正好有國際的會議。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
賴委員士葆：對啊！這段時間都出國。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
莊部長翠雲：他們那個時間是排定的。 |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
賴委員士葆：出國為國家做事，做得有意義是OK的啦！我們來看，你去米蘭開了亞銀的年會，名稱叫做什麼？「Taipei,China」，請賴清德總統眼睛睜大一點，「Taipei,China」，我們還是創始國耶！它的年費只要100萬美金，奇怪，我們怎麼還特別交200萬美金，規定只要100萬美金，他這樣子歧視我們、矮化我們，請問你有沒有抗議？ |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
莊部長翠雲：當然…… |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
賴委員士葆：你有沒有抗議？ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
莊部長翠雲：當然我們一定抗議，第一個，在跟新總裁今年…… |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
賴委員士葆：請問你開會的時候旁邊有沒有一個牌子「under protest」？ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
莊部長翠雲：這個部分我們都有發表聲明，而且跟總裁會面的…… |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
賴委員士葆：你沒有……那個牌子掛那裡啊！要抗議啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
莊部長翠雲：第一個，我們在大會裡面做聲明的時候有明確表達，我想這個更讓所有參與的會員都能夠聽到我們的不滿，同時會後也有部分的會員國來表達…… |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
賴委員士葆：我問你，它這樣子歧視我們、矮化我們，為什麼還要繳200萬？是怎樣啦？ |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
莊部長翠雲：我想對於亞銀的部分，實質上…… |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
賴委員士葆：請問200萬交了沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
莊部長翠雲：名稱沒能夠改，我們當然…… |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
賴委員士葆：請問200萬交了沒有，我問你，200萬交了沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
莊部長翠雲：目前來說，第一個，200萬被刪了100萬，然後又被部分凍結，所以目前並沒有交，事實上這個部分我們是參與有關信託基金的部分…… |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
賴委員士葆：交100萬就可以了啦，它對我們這麼不好！ |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
莊部長翠雲：而對於亞銀的部分我們重在實質的參與，跟相關的會員國互相交流，而且善盡社會…… |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
賴委員士葆：我們時間有限，請你簡短。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
莊部長翠雲：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
賴委員士葆：現在你total要交多少錢？ |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
莊部長翠雲：total？ |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
賴委員士葆：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
莊部長翠雲：沒有啊，這個部分就是一年而已，就是我們捐助…… |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
賴委員士葆：對，交100萬還是200萬？ |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
莊部長翠雲：被砍了，只剩100萬。 |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
賴委員士葆：只剩100萬？ |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
莊部長翠雲：對。 |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
賴委員士葆：好，100萬可以啦，交100萬就好了。4月底你也跑去菲律賓renew它的租稅協定，避免雙重課稅，這件事對吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
莊部長翠雲：關於這個部分，我們持續跟各國簽署相關的協定來避免雙重課稅，我們都持續在努力當中，對各個國家我們都一直在努力。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
賴委員士葆：我講的這個對不對？我現在問你，我講的這個對不對？ |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
莊部長翠雲：當然，這個部分確實如同委員所說的。 |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
賴委員士葆：你已經去過啦，這不是什麼機密嘛。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
莊部長翠雲：對，去過了，但是後續還是要做相關的…… |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
賴委員士葆：你去過了，回來…… |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
莊部長翠雲：生效程序還要完成。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
賴委員士葆：去過了回來就要讓大家知道，這是好事啊！你怎麼會怕？是怎麼樣？ |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
莊部長翠雲：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
賴委員士葆：不是，我的問題你沒有回答，我說這是好事，你怎麼回來不敲鑼打鼓一下？ |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
莊部長翠雲：我也跟委員報告，簽署之後還有後面的生效程序，我們希望這個案子能夠成，因此跟菲方有一些默契，在生效之前…… |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以不能太高調？ |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
莊部長翠雲：對，生效之前我們彼此低調處理。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
賴委員士葆：什麼時候生效？ |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
莊部長翠雲：這個部分我想他們的國會會做安排。 |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
賴委員士葆：今年上半年可以生效吧？ |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，這個部分涉及其他國家的國會安排，我們不在這裡說。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
賴委員士葆：好，我們不追問這個，新南向有18個國家，但是目前我們只有簽8個國家，其他10國什麼時候可以簽好？新南向、新南向，講得這麼重要！ |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
莊部長翠雲：對於跟其他國家簽署租稅協定，我們都持續努力，雖然是8個國家，但是跟我們有貿易的金額，事實上占的比例是相當高的。 |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
賴委員士葆：多高？ |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
莊部長翠雲：投資率90%，對新南向國家…… |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以其他不簽沒關係啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
莊部長翠雲：也不能這樣講。 |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
賴委員士葆：多簽啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
莊部長翠雲：我們還會繼續努力。 |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
賴委員士葆：多簽啦！這個很重要！ |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
莊部長翠雲：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[63][0] |
賴委員士葆：請主計長一起，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[64][0] |
莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員支持，不過我們旅費被砍了百分之六十多。 |
| gazette.blocks[65][0] |
賴委員士葆：你先不要走，兩位長官一起。繼續問一下最近大家關心的一個題目──阿拉斯加。因為最近這兩天美國的財政部長貝森特說臺灣有非常好的提案，「呵咾甲會觸舌」，有夠讚啦！大家就很想知道是什麼，我猜就是這個，就是阿拉斯加，我們要跟它買天然氣，現在開始要買，昨天經濟部次長已經證實簽了MOU，我們每一年要從阿拉斯加多買600萬噸的天然氣，但是那個天然氣是從北極那邊下來的，從北極下來到阿拉斯加的港口總共是一千兩百多公里，這個管線要440億美金。川普總統要韓國、日本跟臺灣三個國家買單，日本、韓國到目前為止還沒答應，他們沒有說不答應，但是都還在考慮。我們已經簽MOU了，我們就說：「Yes,I do！沒有問題，だいじょうぶ」，所以美國當然高興啊！這個不是公司欸，你說我投資美國的公司，有賺錢我可以拿盈餘回來，拿股利回來，但這不是欸，這是美國的基礎建設，等於是我們白白替它蓋，要花多少錢？如果我們算三分之一，就是150億美金。 |
| gazette.blocks[65][1] |
我請教主計長，你有錢嗎？你有150億美金可以替他們蓋、拉這條管線？主計長，有沒有這個錢？4,500億新臺幣左右。 |
| gazette.blocks[66][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：像這種液化天然氣的東西，一般是由營業單位來吸收，就是看它的需求多少…… |
| gazette.blocks[67][0] |
賴委員士葆：所以由中油吸收？中油已經賠錢賠成這樣了，它還要吸收？ |
| gazette.blocks[68][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：所以我們還是應該要衡量一下，看是哪一個單位的需求。 |
| gazette.blocks[69][0] |
賴委員士葆：我再跟兩位長官強調，它不是公司，今天如果是公司，我們就投資，未來它如果有賺錢，我可以分一點回來，這個可以考慮，但這個不是，這是白白替它蓋，就送給它了，從北極圈拉下來到阿拉斯加的港口，然後再從港口運到臺灣，我們另外再買600萬公噸的天然氣。這部分買就買，稍微平衡臺美的貿易順差、逆差，這個沒有人反對，可是這一段管線，老實講，我們現在沒有錢，老百姓會怎麼想？你都不給我1人1萬塊，你們計較得要命，美國爸爸要了4,500億，你就給它了，就變這個樣子，不管誰出的，就算是中油出，也是國家的錢，對不對？中油出也是國家的錢啊！主計長，所以你說營業單位……財政部，你知道這個事情嗎？財政部長知道嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[70][0] |
莊部長翠雲：詳細的狀況我沒有接收到。 |
| gazette.blocks[71][0] |
賴委員士葆：你沒進入狀況就對了。這個只有兩個方法，歲計賸餘或者是舉債嘛，舉債替美國蓋它的基礎建設，這個不是「盤仔」什麼才是「盤仔」？只因為它是美國爸爸，所以就無條件一定要替它蓋，就變成這樣子，你們現在來講就是斤斤計較。部長，你可以先回去了。 |
| gazette.blocks[71][1] |
我最後跟主計長有一點對話，我要跟你講的就是，你斤斤計較，一直在講一百個理由、一千個理由，不給我們發現金。你可以看第一季的GDP，有夠讚！成長5.37%，第二季5%，這個是因為大家怕關稅的問題，所以提早出貨，第三季以後不知道。平均薪資4.7萬，是你們最近公布的，對不對？四萬七千多，最近公布的，請問中位數多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[72][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：三萬八千多。 |
| gazette.blocks[73][0] |
賴委員士葆：3萬8,900元，各位，這個才是實際的，平均薪資這樣，就變成是我們小老百姓可能沒有收入、是低收入戶，但他跟首富、臺灣最有錢的人加起來平均是4.7萬，結果我告訴你，有三分之二的勞工領不到平均薪資。同樣地，我們有一個國富普查，國家財富的統計，上個月底4月29日公布平均每一戶是1,889萬。各位好好看，你家裡有沒有1,889萬？其實中位數是多少？中位數才八百多萬而已，所以我現在要強調的結論就是，我們的平均薪資是4.7萬，你們剛公布的，可是中位數是3.8萬。我們的國富統計，平均一戶將近1,900萬，可是中位數只有800萬左右。主計總處能不能答應以後這兩個數字同時公布，不要只公布一個？ |
| gazette.blocks[74][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：我們是每四年公布一次。 |
| gazette.blocks[75][0] |
賴委員士葆：不是，你要同時公布。你還在講國富，我現在在講工資啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[76][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：工資喔？ |
| gazette.blocks[77][0] |
賴委員士葆：對啦！ |
| gazette.blocks[78][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：工資是每個月…… |
| gazette.blocks[79][0] |
賴委員士葆：同時公布這兩個數字，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[80][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：是。 |
| gazette.blocks[81][0] |
賴委員士葆：否則你說我們經濟有夠讚，經濟發展有多讚，「呵咾甲會觸舌」，說是4.7萬，結果中位數是3.8萬，中位數才有意義，中位數才是老百姓的感覺，否則會想說「夭壽」喔！為什麼我領這麼少？人家是4.7萬，我才3.9萬而已，3.9萬還比中位數高。 |
| gazette.blocks[82][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：報告委員，我們現在中位數也是每個月都公布。 |
| gazette.blocks[83][0] |
賴委員士葆：要公布，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[84][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：有。 |
| gazette.blocks[85][0] |
賴委員士葆：那個國富統計也是一樣，差很多，你看，每一戶是1,900萬，結果中位數才800萬，差有夠多，要讓老百姓知道實情，好不好？謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[86][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：好。 |
| gazette.blocks[87][0] |
主席：謝謝賴召委。接著請郭國文委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
588 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-3-20-12 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
賴惠員 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
吳秉叡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
顏寬恒 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
林思銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
羅明才 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
黃國昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
葉元之 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
王世堅 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
陳玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
521 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2025-05-15 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1144901 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1144901_00008 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、處理中華民國114年度中央政府總預算決議有關財政部主管預算凍結書面報告案 62案、有關
審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案4案及有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案18案；二、處理
中華民國114年度中央政府總預算決議有關財政部主管預算凍結專案報告案 17案及有關行政院主
計總處預算凍結專案報告案1案 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1144901_00007 |