| IVOD_ID |
161394 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161394 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-3-19,20-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期經濟、財政兩委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期經濟、財政兩委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-14T14:57:17+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-14T15:11:15+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:13:58 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4f2e91488ef6971b7b86857a0940027aa35373469a84e2c3c28df25a7d39ced1ba19aca0d7bc67965ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
羅明才 |
| 委員發言時間 |
14:57:17 - 15:11:15 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-14T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期經濟、財政兩委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查：
一、行政院函請審議「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別條例草案」案。
二、本院國民黨黨團擬具「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民眾消費韌性特別條例草案」案。
三、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「因應國際情勢衝擊強化經濟社會韌性特別條例草案」案。
四、本院委員蔡易餘等18人擬具「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別條例草案」案。
五、本院委員王美惠等17人擬具「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別條例草案」案。
（第一案如未獲議事處來函則不予審查，第二至第五案業經各黨團簽署不復議同意書。）（詢答）
【5月14日及5月15日二天一次會】） |
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| gazette.lineno |
1735 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
羅委員明才：（14時57分）主席、各位委員、出列席官員，大家好。主席，請經濟部何次長、主計長、財政部阮次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請何次長、主計長、阮次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
羅委員明才：首先請教經濟部何次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
何次長晉滄：委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
羅委員明才：次長好。請問今天為什麼會有一個因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民眾消費韌性特別條例草案？為什麼會提出這樣的草案？ |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
何次長晉滄：我想當初是因為有美國對等關稅的衝擊，後來因為整個國際上的地緣政治，還有國內有一些社會的波動，也可能會對國內的整個經濟社會及國土安全的韌性都會造成相當的影響，所以行政院就考慮到經濟社會及國土安全相關的這些議題，就提出這樣的條例。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
羅委員明才：的確，士農工商、百工百業的窮苦人很多，大家都應該受到照顧，特別第一線的中小企業、微型企業也好，我們產業鏈的半導體、IC產業、ITC產業，都攸關我們臺灣未來發展至深且鉅。美國對大陸、對中國，本來上個禮拜是要課多少的關稅？ |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
何次長晉滄：145%。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
羅委員明才：現在呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
何次長晉滄：現在是30%，有90天的期間。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
羅委員明才：好，為什麼這個轉折會那麼大？145%，這是山雨欲來風滿樓，全世界整個都繃緊，很緊張，為什麼在日內瓦兩天時間就「啪」立刻調降那麼多？30%跟145%差了多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
何次長晉滄：我想兩個經濟體在談判的時候，彼此應該都有感受到雙方在解決這個問題上的誠意，所以美國有這樣的一個決定。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
羅委員明才：關於這個特別條例，當初設計的時候是站在什麼樣的基礎下，才列出四千多億…… |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
何次長晉滄：4,100億。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
羅委員明才：在什麼樣的環境之下，列出了4,100億？ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
何次長晉滄：當初我們針對經濟韌性的部分，是因為美國對臺灣課徵了32%的對等關稅。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
羅委員明才：現在是32%，假設下個月美方宣布因為臺灣的表現不錯，將關稅降為10%，這種情況有沒有可能發生？ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
何次長晉滄：我想也是不無可能。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
羅委員明才：那麼如果關稅真的降到10%，還會維持4,100億預算嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
何次長晉滄：因為這中間還涉及許多社會韌性和國土安全韌性的問題，所以…… |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
羅委員明才：好，謝謝。請陳主計長。這個特別條例照顧了很多人，比如說中小企業，還有呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：有中小企業，還有勞保、健保、老屋修繕。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
羅委員明才：甚至國防也被納入了。 |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：是，還有弱勢照顧。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
羅委員明才：弱勢照顧也有嗎？弱勢照顧的金額是多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[25][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：1,670億。 |
| gazette.blocks[26][0] |
羅委員明才：弱勢照顧要給誰？ |
| gazette.blocks[27][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：是針對弱勢族群提供關懷協助，在勞保基金方面是100億，健保是200億。其中台灣電力公司要撥補的金額是1,000億，高等教育人才的培育是200億。 |
| gazette.blocks[28][0] |
羅委員明才：但我們發現，整個條例看下來還是有一些族群沒被照顧到，比如說嬰兒有被照顧到嗎？媽媽們呢？或者社會上的邊緣人有沒有被照顧到？這些錢都是民脂民膏，應該要花在刀口上。特別是現在經濟不景氣，很多人都需要幫助。小學生需不需要照顧？念書的同學需不需要照顧？像臺北市租屋這麼貴，需不需要多照顧？去年稅收超徵5,280億，我們當然要優先照顧最需要的人。根據民調，有70%的民眾覺得自己應該被照顧，所以我主張要照顧更多真正需要幫助的人，比如，一人領1萬，讓這些沒有受到照顧的人能有一點小確幸，讓百工百業一人領1萬塊，快樂常相伴。除了大人能夠領到錢，讓小朋友也有希望一人領1萬，一人領1萬有這麼難嗎？您剛剛說台電要撥補1,000億，這1,000億不要拿人民的血汗錢來撥補嘛！中華民國有兩個最會賺錢的單位，請財政部阮次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[29][0] |
阮次長清華：您好。 |
| gazette.blocks[30][0] |
羅委員明才：大家一直對您的操盤功力非常肯定，覺得您武功高強。在過去九次國安基金的出手之下，大概有幾次是獲利超過百億元的，有沒有？ |
| gazette.blocks[31][0] |
阮次長清華：有，上一次就有超過100億。 |
| gazette.blocks[32][0] |
羅委員明才：100億，掌聲鼓勵！有沒有超過500億的？ |
| gazette.blocks[33][0] |
阮次長清華：沒有，因為規模沒有那麼大。 |
| gazette.blocks[34][0] |
羅委員明才：那麼這九次加起來大概有多少獲利？ |
| gazette.blocks[35][0] |
阮次長清華：我沒有算過，手上剛好沒帶相關資料。 |
| gazette.blocks[36][0] |
羅委員明才：第一次和第二次加一加就知道，大概超過2,000億以上。 |
| gazette.blocks[37][0] |
阮次長清華：應該沒有那麼多。 |
| gazette.blocks[38][0] |
羅委員明才：如果台電需要撥補，那你們就應該去找那些有賺錢的單位。如果再不懂，那應該去找央行。請問主計長，央行去年為國庫繳庫多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[39][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：2,000億。 |
| gazette.blocks[40][0] |
阮次長清華：去年是2,000億，我跟委員報告…… |
| gazette.blocks[41][0] |
羅委員明才：所以你應該去找央行，而不是對人民的血汗錢動腦筋，這筆錢是老百姓的啊！你應該讓台電自力更生，不要影響到大多數苦難的人民，有多少小朋友在期待這1萬塊你知道嗎？1萬塊可以買小朋友自己的文具用品，甚至對更小的嬰兒來說，能買到奶粉。對於爸爸媽媽沒有給零用錢的小朋友來說，他們至少可以買一包泡麵，在肚子餓的時候去福利社買個麵包。這是多麼卑微，但對這些人卻有很大的幫助。所以本席主張，錢應該要花在刀口上，一人領1萬，快樂常相伴；一人領1萬，大人小孩統統有希望。希望今天各單位列席的主管們，能夠玉成並大力支持。 |
| gazette.blocks[41][1] |
最後一個問題，我想請問經濟部，政府過去已經幾次撥補給台電了？金額是多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[42][0] |
何次長晉滄：有兩次是增資，總共是2,500億。還有一次是500億。 |
| gazette.blocks[43][0] |
羅委員明才：還有幾次？加起來總共多少？ |
| gazette.blocks[44][0] |
何次長晉滄：三次，加起來總共3,000億。 |
| gazette.blocks[45][0] |
羅委員明才：政府已經撥補台電3,000億了，假設這次再撥補1,000億給台電，你能不能保證電價不會再漲？撥補1,000億之後，今年電價不漲，那明年會不會再漲？如果撥補1,000億之後，台電可以自立自強、重振旗鼓，成為一個令人驕傲的台電，而不是每次都伸手向人民要錢。這次撥補1,000億，明年電價會不會漲？你不敢保證嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[46][0] |
何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，撥補1,000億也是工商團體大家的心聲，希望能夠做撥補。撥補這1,000億之後，電價到底能不能不漲？其實還是要回到電價審議會…… |
| gazette.blocks[47][0] |
羅委員明才：工商團體的心聲你們聽到了嗎？你們支持嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[48][0] |
何次長晉滄：對，他們是希望電價能夠穩定，不要再漲。 |
| gazette.blocks[49][0] |
羅委員明才：那很好，你聽到他們的心聲你就支持嘛！ |
| gazette.blocks[49][1] |
主計長，你有沒有聽到社會基層民眾需要這1萬塊的心聲？每個人就是領1萬，這是最卑微、最卑微的請求。給這些孤苦無依的基層民眾、社會邊緣人，還有社福團體現在最缺的就是這1萬塊的小確幸，這些聲音主計長你聽到了嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[50][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：這我沒有辦法做主，因為這必須要向上面…… |
| gazette.blocks[51][0] |
羅委員明才：但剛剛部長一聽就馬上做啊！為什麼你聽到了卻不做？70%的民眾都說他們很需要這1萬塊！普發現金1萬，大家都在等，其實這是還稅於民、還錢於民，這個錢不是你的錢，是去年稅收超徵的5,280億，我們去7-11買東西的時候有營業稅，日常生活中的消費都有稅的支出。取之於民，就該用之於民。 |
| gazette.blocks[52][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：報告委員，我們目前評估認為發現金不是最好的政策，所以才會用別政策來取代。 |
| gazette.blocks[53][0] |
羅委員明才：不是最好的政策，那為什麼以前有發過？ |
| gazette.blocks[54][0] |
陳主計長淑姿：那是以前，每一次的情況都不一樣。 |
| gazette.blocks[55][0] |
羅委員明才：所以昨是今非，每一次都不一樣？那就隨你講啊！那你為什麼不說這次很重要？你現在要花這些錢，就應該去找對的人要錢，不要拿人民的血汗錢，把所有該給人民的額度全部都拿去用了。剛剛很多委員講，國防部就按照編列的預算去做。既然這是特別條例，那就應該特別關心企業、關心所有的民眾。我希望你們回去好好思考這些問題。 |
| gazette.blocks[55][1] |
最後請問經濟部，端午節過後水價會不會漲？ |
| gazette.blocks[56][0] |
何次長晉滄：目前沒有調漲計畫。 |
| gazette.blocks[57][0] |
羅委員明才：今年會不會漲？ |
| gazette.blocks[58][0] |
何次長晉滄：目前沒有調漲計畫。 |
| gazette.blocks[59][0] |
羅委員明才：目前是指今天，那明天算不算目前？ |
| gazette.blocks[60][0] |
何次長晉滄：其實水價跟電價一樣，都有一個審議會機制，目前是沒有水價調漲的計畫。 |
| gazette.blocks[61][0] |
羅委員明才：不要再漲了，民眾受不了啊！物價飆漲但薪水都沒漲。除非你能讓全民的薪水都漲，你再去調整這些價格，好不好？我們希望錢要花在刀口上，不要一天到晚想著去消耗民眾的權益，而不是自己自食其力。你只要讓台電賺錢，就不會再漲電價，否則傷的還是人民！謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[62][0] |
主席：好，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[62][1] |
我們現在請王世堅委員詢答、王世堅委員、王世堅委員不在。 |
| gazette.blocks[62][2] |
現在請楊瓊瓔委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
154 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
聯席會議-11-3-19,20-1 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
張啓楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
呂玉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
陳俊宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
林思銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
黃珊珊 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
羅明才 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
葉元之 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
王正旭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[26] |
陳玉珍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[27] |
邱鎮軍 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[28] |
顏寬恒 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[29] |
翁曉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[30] |
蘇清泉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[31] |
王美惠 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[32] |
許宇甄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[33] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
41 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2025-05-14 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1144901 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1144901_00003 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第3會期經濟、財政兩委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
審查：一、行政院函請審議「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別條例草案」案；
二、本院國民黨黨團擬具「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民眾消費韌性特別條例草案」案；三、
本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「因應國際情勢衝擊強化經濟社會韌性特別條例草案」案；四、本院委
員蔡易餘等18人擬具「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別條例草案」案；五、本院
委員王美惠等17人擬具「因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全韌性特別條例草案」案（詢答） |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1144901_00002 |