| IVOD_ID |
161382 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161382 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-3-22,23-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期教育及文化、交通委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期教育及文化、交通委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-14T13:20:30+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-14T13:29:14+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:08:44 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4f2e91488ef6971b286b09bd3d69e36aebe85dec65e1b640c717538999138866c299908bd24946c85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
謝龍介 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:20:30 - 13:29:14 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-14T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化、交通委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員葛如鈞等37人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案。
二、審查委員邱若華等17人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案。
三、審查委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案。
四、審查委員萬美玲等18人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案。
五、審查委員許宇甄等20人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案。
六、審查委員張嘉郡等21人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案。
七、審查委員林倩綺等23人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案。
(僅進行詢答)） |
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| gazette.lineno |
940 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
謝委員龍介：（13時20分）主席，吳主委請假，那就請副主委跟執行秘書以及蔡處長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：好，請相關官員備質詢，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
謝委員龍介：還有數發部次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
主席：好，數發部次長，謝謝。 |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
謝委員龍介：陳副主委，我請教你，現在我國超級電腦的計算力在世界的排名大概排在什麼位置？大約就可以了。 |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
陳副主任委員炳宇：16名，大概差不多第16名。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
謝委員龍介：第16名？你這麼有自信喔？ |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
陳副主任委員炳宇：第11名。 |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
謝委員龍介：11名是剛才人家說的，這個資料從哪裡來的？我跟你說，這8、9年來我們國家沒有投資嘛，沒有投資是要怎麼有好的排名，對不對？全世界最頂尖的前五名，你可不可以說給我聽一下，全世界最頂尖的前五名，美國在內，再來呢？ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
陳副主任委員炳宇：抱歉，我們查一下。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
謝委員龍介：要再查一下？你要研究AI…… |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
陳副主任委員炳宇：應該是美國、日本、中國…… |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
謝委員龍介：好，你說這三個就算你有概念了。卓院長說他是AI內閣，這樣看起來，從早上9點來聽到現在是變成「會害」的內閣。國家如果不投資，你沒有強大的算力，就不可能發展所謂的軍工業，就不要再說AI了，沒有穩定的能源，你怎麼可能去做這些投資？所以，為什麼黃仁勳會一次在美國就喊出5,000億美金的投資，為什麼對臺灣不能這麼大手筆，我想這是很清楚的。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][1] |
立法是這樣，剛開始這是一個基本法，因為吳主委也不在，我想應該你們有多次開會，尤其處長，你們也都有在參與。AI當然在未來的時間裡面可能會一日千里，所以法令要從寬，但是以我們東方人的文化，就是以人為本，我不知道你們有用這個概念去做基礎嗎？副主委，有嗎？還是處長？ |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
陳副主任委員炳宇：有，我們在討論AI基本法的時候，是有考慮這一點。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
謝委員龍介：有就對了，所以你並沒有不同的見解，就是以人為本這個見解是符合用人類做中心就對了，這個思維發展當然也比較符合我們東方文化。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][1] |
在這樣的情形下，整個AI模型的建立，投資的金額坦白說我們差人家很多，所以你說整個data的模型、數據的內涵、數量的基礎，你要怎麼跟大陸比？這不是長他人志氣滅自己威風，人家投資很多，人家是投資了很多，我們的投資很少。我不說是誰，就是我們的部會首長親自來跟我說的，他說我們臺灣有人才，我要請教你們兩位，我們的人才夠不夠？夠不夠？ |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
陳副主任委員炳宇：跟委員報告，AI人才一定都不夠的，絕對不夠。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
謝委員龍介：都不夠，所以你要說AI內閣，結果AI的人才不夠，那你們要怎麼成為一個AI的內閣？人才不夠，政府又捨不得投資，我跟你說，AI是一旦落伍了，不是只有表面上輸人家而已，是所有全面性的落伍，會全面性的跟不上，跟不上世界的潮流，跟不上世界的腳步。所以才有執政黨的委員說，你看你們現在多放假5日，大概就會被AI取代了你的工作，放假回來工作就沒有了。不要用這樣，對人民不需要這樣，國家要提升，要進步，要走在人民的前面，走在企業的前面。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][1] |
2019年日本公布了「以人為本的AI社會原則」；但是到了2,023年，他們有討論到電信法的部分，就是AI的深度偽造最後會演變，現在詐騙愈來愈進步，你進步的速度比詐騙集團還慢就慘了，這個國家就沉淪了。針對深度偽造造成詐騙的氾濫，這個你們在修法整理的過程中有研究嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
葉次長寧：有關於委員說到的詐騙的部分，部裡面的原則一向都是，固然詐騙集團會運用AI技術去詐騙，但是詐騙的防制也會運用AI的技術，所以不管是打詐的防制網還是AI技術的開發，我們都在努力進行當中。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
謝委員龍介：你們有要求他要標示形成內容的過程嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[19][0] |
葉次長寧：應該說我們打詐條例有特別要求網際網路的平臺業者，他的廣告如果使用人工智慧或深偽技術的話，他要標示。 |
| gazette.blocks[20][0] |
謝委員龍介：所以未來在AI基本法裡面，對於各行各業，因為詐騙不是單一行業，他是利用各行各業、利用政府網站、利用媒體、利用個人、利用名人，他都有可能利用。 |
| gazette.blocks[21][0] |
葉次長寧：對，所以我們在詐欺防制條例有特別的規定。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][0] |
謝委員龍介：本席跟你探討這個是因為立法沒有辦法……基本法沒有辦法寫得很齊全，但是這一部基本法要能夠面對未來一日千里的AI變化。 |
| gazette.blocks[22][1] |
對於我國超級電腦的計算力，我希望你給我一份詳細的報告，你不要再跟我說10名之內，那個我聽不下去，沒有投資你跟我說你可以跑到10名之內。我也不要在這裡說太多別人好聽的話，我們不足的地方我們自己要檢討，我們會支持你，我們支持你的預算、支持你立法的目的，是希望我們能跟得上別人。否則所有的AI產業，當他把大額資金都拿去國外投資的時候，你不要考慮到你跟我的問題而已，你要考慮到你的兒子跟孫子的問題跟他們的將來，好不好？ |
| gazette.blocks[23][0] |
陳副主任委員炳宇：好，我們會努力。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][0] |
主席：謝謝謝龍介委員的質詢，官員請回座。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][1] |
接下來請邱若華委員質詢，邱若華委員，邱若華委員不在。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][2] |
接下來請許宇甄委員質詢，許宇甄委員，許宇甄委員不在。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][3] |
接下來請廖先翔委員質詢，廖先翔委員，廖先翔委員不在。 |
| gazette.blocks[24][4] |
接下來請楊瓊瓔委員質詢。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
338 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
聯席會議-11-3-22,23-1 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
葛如鈞 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
羅廷瑋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
吳宗憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
洪孟楷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
柯志恩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
李昆澤 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
林俊憲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
陳素月 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
陳秀寳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
林宜瑾 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
葉元之 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
蔡其昌 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
劉書彬 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
萬美玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
張雅琳 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
郭昱晴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
何欣純 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
游顥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
徐富癸 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
吳沛憶 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
謝龍介 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
范雲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
林沛祥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[26] |
邱若華 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[27] |
廖先翔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[28] |
許宇甄 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[29] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
263 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2025-05-14 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1144802 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1144802_00005 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化、交通委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
一、審查委員葛如鈞等37人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案；二、審查委員邱若華等 17 人擬具
「人工智慧基本法草案」案；三、審查委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案；四、
審查委員萬美玲等18人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案；五、審查委員許宇甄等20人擬具「人工
智慧基本法草案」案；六、審查委員張嘉郡等21人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案；七、審查委
員林倩綺等23人擬具「人工智慧基本法草案」案 （僅進行詢答） |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1144802_00004 |