IVOD_ID |
161336 |
IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161336 |
日期 |
2025-05-14 |
會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-35-13 |
會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
會議資料.屆 |
11 |
會議資料.會期 |
3 |
會議資料.會次 |
13 |
會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第13次全體委員會議 |
影片種類 |
Clip |
開始時間 |
2025-05-14T10:49:23+08:00 |
結束時間 |
2025-05-14T10:59:39+08:00 |
影片長度 |
00:10:16 |
支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4f2e91488ef6971b231ede045c933afed304acf7f12681bdab8e08a4c8c91792ec9b031307793c685ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
委員名稱 |
黃國昌 |
委員發言時間 |
10:49:23 - 10:59:39 |
會議時間 |
2025-05-14T09:00:00+08:00 |
會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第13次全體委員會議(事由:處理院會交付114年度中央政府總預算決議,國防部主管預算凍結案等54案。(詳如附件)) |
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知安就是國安,我相信這個應該是大家目前的共識 |
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今年3月的時候有查獲一家深瑞電子之前是說什麼安控國家隊結果做了丟人現眼的事情說是台灣的安控國家隊結果在賣中國貼牌貨把中國的監視器改標成MIP據相關的資訊國防部的軍事要塞、關鍵基礎設施通通都淪陷了 |
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4月的時候國家資通安全研究院也做了通報他不僅僅是賣中國的貼牌貨他的監視器主機竟然有連線到中國的行為那這個事情就大條了第一個賣中國貼牌貨第二個他的監視器主機連線到中國然後竟然說是我們台灣的安控國家隊 |
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那這個事情因為很嚴重所以我在總質詢的時候我有質詢卓榮泰院長那院長當時我在總質詢的時候可能對於過去這兩個月所發生這樣的事情沒有什麼掌握那也沒有關係那我就給院長時間那院長說他兩個禮拜會要求所有相關的部會來去清查最後的結果回來 |
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我等到上個禮拜五兩週的時間到了因為負責統合的是速發部速發部要把資訊回傳回來速發部回傳的是說他們目前統計有3400項這樣子的產品用在各個不同的部會當中那3400項這個數字當然是讓人看了非常的擔心那不過 |
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他上面的三千四百項其實不包括國防部跟經濟部他說國防部還在整理資料請問一下部長目前整理資料的情況跟進度到什麼地方總指示 |
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網友好通知是報告首先先跟委員講一下這個東西是我們在治安健檢的時候主動發現的沒有關係跟回報的事情所以你們如果是很早就發現的話應該資料找就好了對所以我們統部國軍總共有954部是有這個但是都屬於單機跟脫離網域的它是獨立作業的這是我們清查完的全國軍有954部那你什麼時候知道有954部是5月2號 |
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對,那為什麼上個禮拜不回我資料我們現在已檢查,我們立刻回覆不是啊,我覺得很奇怪啊這個是左榮泰做的承諾啊我總質詢也沒為難他兩個禮拜也是左榮泰說的那我也願意給左榮泰時間啊啊,速發部回給我的是說你們國防部資料還沒有準備好然後你今天跟我講說原來你5月2號東西都好了那很奇怪,那你們東西都好了為什麼不給我 |
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所以我們下去檢討那你們現在這900多部現在打算怎麼辦因為它屬於單機我們現在都禁止它使用了那因為它沒有跟民網連線它屬於獨立的網域沒有啦 我們一樣一樣來啦現在你先不要牽涉到連線上面的問題啦依照國防部的規範可以買中國的貼牌貨嗎不可以 |
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所以我現在才問你要怎麼處理我們現在有精進的作為精進的作為是未來現在這900多部要怎麼處理我們已經停用了 全部都完全停用只要停用就算了我們會檢討當初為什麼會有因為這個還是要在說明原來是我們自己發現的是啦 900多部你要不要跟廠商求償跟他主張要他負法律責任這個是最基本的吧 |
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你未來當然要改善嘛現在我是針對你這900多部你說有安全的疑慮先停用我同意但是這900多部要納稅人買單嗎這是我的問題這個責任總要追究吧我有沒有說錯沒有部長那個再麻煩部長督導一下相關的法律責任該追究要追究啦因為發生這樣的事情還是納稅人買單這樣不對吧 |
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我們會去檢視一下相關的合約然後來進行依合約來進行好 看怎麼處置等你們方便的時候回覆給我我也不壓時間 這樣可以嗎好 再來就是因為這種事情一而再再而三的發生我老實講 我非常驚訝 |
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也蠻困擾的因為我又接到檢舉說我們的資通訊產品就禁用中國製的東西然後呢但是我接到檢舉我一定去求證我一定求證我不會有人給我檢舉我的就算了所以我四月的時候跑去龍門營區按照他檢舉的資料我去了現場我去了現場看那個交換器 |
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這個是我在現場看那個機器跟拍的照片大剌剌的就寫Made in China那我就覺得很奇怪這是我們政府早就宣示的政策而且這個機子是最近才裝的那怎麼會大剌剌的上面貼著Made in China那我們還是讓他放在我們國軍的營區當中呢 |
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378.481 |
transcript.whisperx[14].text |
因為我那天看完了以後我有跟那個我們營區的弟弟兄說說這個事情可能要跟國防部反映一下因為你們應該要有一個標準的作業程序吧今天在你們所提出來的書面報告當中書面報告你們說要在營區裝智慧型警戒案執行規劃報告這個報告寫的都不錯啊 |
transcript.whisperx[15].start |
384.003 |
transcript.whisperx[15].end |
412.674 |
transcript.whisperx[15].text |
說你們一定不會用然後有省監人員攝影機不會用絕對不允許但現實的狀況就不是這樣啊部長這件事情你有掌握嗎他沒有通報上來我是不是請常務長好來是包委我簡單報告一下這個案子他兩個缺失第一個單位是以小額採購而且他沒有呈報到市民部來審核那這個的確是我們要再檢討精進的一個地方 |
transcript.whisperx[16].start |
415.545 |
transcript.whisperx[16].end |
432.434 |
transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我這樣說好了啦因為其實我那天去農民營區的時候跟那些弟兄有面對面的溝通嘛其實我覺得那些弟兄其實蠻認真也蠻負責的啦所以我腦袋我一直在想說他們應該不是故意的他們應該不是故意的 |
transcript.whisperx[17].start |
433.234 |
transcript.whisperx[17].end |
459.975 |
transcript.whisperx[17].text |
可能是採購的人員東西送來的時候在SOP的程序上面連看都沒看一下這個東西到底是哪裡做的因為他真的大剌剌的就寫Made in China結果我那天在這個影區看的時候我看到這一台因為我在找檢舉人的檢舉機器在哪裡我看完這一台了以後我到辦公室裡面又看到一台更大台的 |
transcript.whisperx[18].start |
461.038 |
transcript.whisperx[18].end |
479.227 |
transcript.whisperx[18].text |
又看到一排更大的牌那上面一樣是用簡體字寫那用簡體字寫我看了這個就是說這個貼牌只限於用在中國的區域那我一看就知道這中國字啦那我就問營區的弟兄說這東西哪裡來的他說是第六軍團從上面發下來的 |
transcript.whisperx[19].start |
482.27 |
transcript.whisperx[19].end |
489.459 |
transcript.whisperx[19].text |
不是他們買的這個事情他們有通報嗎這個是他們小兒採購沒有沒有他們那天 |
transcript.whisperx[20].start |
491.96 |
transcript.whisperx[20].end |
516.232 |
transcript.whisperx[20].text |
他們那上面一張你看的是他們自己想採購這個不是他們採購的這個他說是第六軍團發下來所以我後來才發文去問第六軍團所以你們怎麼會發這個東西給人家所以後面您查的六個採購暗號那六個採購暗號另外我們查的就是剛才您委員所指導的那個深瑞的那個那個監視器的主機的部分 |
transcript.whisperx[21].start |
517.011 |
transcript.whisperx[21].end |
534.84 |
transcript.whisperx[21].text |
沒有啦現在就這個已經不是深瑞這是這不是深瑞的監視器這個是交換器網路交換器是是是龍門營區的四個網路交換器是這個不是深瑞的這個是中國製的你有沒有看一下造物片有有四顆對那我現在的問題一模一樣 |
transcript.whisperx[22].start |
535.76 |
transcript.whisperx[22].end |
559.839 |
transcript.whisperx[22].text |
他們說這不是他們買的是第六軍團發的現在問題很簡單第六軍團怎麼會上面的單位發給我們基層的單位直接發中國製的交換器給他們因為你如果說基層的弟兄採購人員訓練不足SOP沒有建立好有一些疏失這個我都可以理解但東西是從上面發下來的問題就嚴重了 |
transcript.whisperx[23].start |
561.226 |
transcript.whisperx[23].end |
579.537 |
transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我這樣說有沒有錯這個我要下去再了解一下因為當初我的了解是是他們採小額採購然後沒有循序不是啦 那個是上一台這一台不是這樣那個書面報告他們有回給我再麻煩你們回去了解一下好不好因為 |
transcript.whisperx[24].start |
580.714 |
transcript.whisperx[24].end |
595.792 |
transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我相信政府做這樣的宣示,政策上面做這樣的宣示,大家都支持啊但問題是在執行面上面,從去年到今年一件又一件,一件又一件的爆發那顯然在執行面上面出了非常大的問題嘛部長我這樣說對吧 |
transcript.whisperx[25].start |
599.629 |
transcript.whisperx[25].end |
614.504 |
transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我想我們會再來做一個執行面上面的一個徹底的這個檢討好 那你們執行面上面到底要怎麼樣徹底的檢討這件事情你們方便的時候給我一個書面報告可以嗎是好 謝謝 |