| IVOD_ID |
161135 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161135 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-26-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
10 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-08T13:54:30+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-08T14:14:02+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:19:32 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/26c557d936b203c12f18b6b44bc8d768bf088656e97d3403c59ceea3ce0d89f70ca9a1ea8bb929be5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳瑩 |
| 委員發言時間 |
13:54:30 - 14:14:02 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請衛生福利部部長就「長照2.0執行情形檢討及3.0未來規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、邀請衛生福利部部長就「澳洲進口豬腳驗出含萊克多巴胺，如何加強肉品食安查驗，讓民眾放心」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【專題報告綜合詢答】） |
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謝謝主席 麻煩先請部長跟呂次長部長好 次長好我上個月到成功的時候我在路邊吃海產結果有一個阿公突然走到我前面然後他袖子捲起來我以為他要打我 嚇一跳結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
38.126 |
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他是露出他手腕上面的手錶然後很得意的把他老婆也叫來說他們就是上次我在就是之前我在2022年有幫這個智慧手環計畫有在花園封兵事辦我們有爭取嘛那2023年我又在幫台東的這個成功和長兵的長者在爭取這個智慧手環的部分那現在目前也都在實施當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
68.591 |
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剛好這對老夫妻他們是其實女兒一個嫁到台北一個嫁到澳洲剛好放假可能回來掃墓也跟我講說因為有智慧手環他們真的很放心他們住在偏鄉生活的這些長輩們真的幫助非常的大 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
95.084 |
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121.812 |
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所以這樣的一個照顧長者的計畫在偏鄉是相當重要的那麼在去年12月5號衛環委員會也已經要求衛福部要規劃臺東花蓮全縣來辦理智慧手環的計畫的時候部長有特別指示說要在一個月內完成評估那我後來也在預算審查的時候提案要求今年要公告辦理那部長你知道現在的進度嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
125.026 |
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首先我覺得這樣 剛剛那個照片非常的感人真的 那也覺得這樣的一個成效 很敬佩委員這樣來推動真的是照顧了偏鄉老人 那怎麼樣來把它擴大是我們一直在思考的那這是不是義福會副執行長我再鄭重提醒一下 部長你上次就是我們是在12月5號的未還委員會 那今天已經幾月幾號了 |
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156.414 |
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181.069 |
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今年已經5月8號那整整已經過了半年又三天了那要不要講一下你們的進度我們衣服回來報告一下首先的確這個委員非常關心這個成功和長兵這個我們的叫做事辦的這個計畫難怪這個委員名義這麼高這個非常這個受到民眾的這個愛戴 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
182.386 |
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204.215 |
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我覺得這些話都不重要我比較關心他們什麼時候有手環可以帶對那這個計畫就是剛剛我提有特別講到這是一個試辦的計畫我們從去年1月開始做做到現在才做一年三個月那這個為什麼叫試辦呢因為這個計畫目前我們是跟長照師爭取3500萬的經費來做到目前為止才收案大概將近1200個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
205.876 |
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222.593 |
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那在實施上的確還是有一些民眾剛剛這兩位民眾是非常滿意可是也有一些民眾他是就是他覺得這個科技的這個部分他可能不太會使用他可能去種田的時候不方便帶著啦或者說帶很久都忘了充電啊什麼有這些這樣的問題這些是很小的問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
225.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
245.357 |
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我也有跟台東部立醫院的院長我們都有下箱後來有下箱去宣導嘛其實這個都小問題啊是是是但是宣導不知道怎麼用宣導一下而已台東王院長也有告訴我們說他這個事辦計畫他兩年完成就到今年底完成的時候會有一個完整的評估報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
246.078 |
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271.287 |
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那所以我們想說既然是你現在是在打部長的臉嗎因為部長有跟我講說就是你們一個月內完成評估你現在上來講兩年這樣誰說了算啊因為我們確實有進去開始評估就是說這個台東縣這個超過65歲的老人就有4萬多人那現在將近1100萬人就花了3500萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
272.908 |
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296.995 |
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不好意思 你講到這個 講到重點了 錢我們台東人的命比較不值錢 是嗎當然不是 當然不是 只是說政府經費一定要編預算 預先編才會有經費出來嘛那你臨時要生出這麼多錢 有時候不太容易這樣子啊我看你很不會說話部長還是次長 你要不要救他一下 我完全聽不下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
299.366 |
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312.893 |
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就是所以你結論什麼是我們不要辦呢還是怎麼樣不是我們繼續把這個吃飯計畫把它完整評估完整然後再來那如果兩年後還有人不會用我們這個計畫就來取消是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
314.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
340.494 |
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你在評估的過程當中你發現問題你們有沒有立刻去解決你們有沒有嘗試著去解決發現問題我們再來修正啊 譬如說今天我去我下鄉去看的時候我都有發現說因為你們如果假如是老人家不會使用他是因為講一下你沒有去講啊那畫中那麼多的部落你不會請說有族語的人去講一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
341.374 |
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366.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
去示範一下我那天去了那幾個部落那文件站講一下大家就都會了啊那表示在試用帶這麼久的過程當中你們都沒有好好去講去教嘛啊老人家多花一點時間講慢一點給他重複個兩三次也沒有關係啊但是這過程你們有沒有做呢我覺得這個要檢討的好像是你們自己耶不是檢討那些老人會不會用耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
366.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
390.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
不是我的意思是說我們現在光做這1200人台中醫院就已經請了9位專門的人力額外多請9個人來負責輔導幫忙這些民眾來使用就是讓這個民眾在使用上可以更順利所以我們有逐步在改善那因為一開始是不是拜託我們再給我們一點時間我們再努力一下這樣子市長有沒有要補充什麼你負責督導這個業務 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
393.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
405.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
還是應該部長來直接做裁示好我想那個就趕快去檢討那個在推動當中不能說到最後才檢討部長我先跟你講實際的狀況啦在從去年12月 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
411.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
425.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
5號我質詢完而且您才是之後呢截至一直到昨天這整整幾個月當中我不知道你們衛福部總共聚集在一起針對本期這個要求討論了多少次 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
426.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
442.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
有嗎 這個簡單問題醫護會也把這個當成很重要你們很抗拒 我得到的訊息是你們非常抗拒啊就像當初在一開始最初在示範的時候也是大家踢皮球嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
443.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
465.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
啊踢來踢去後來是那個後來是薛部長就指示嘛指示就清楚了所以我不知道這過程現在是不是還有說誰人力不足然後誰錢不夠然後想要又踢給誰有沒有別人來做啊不然你不是一個月你有拍板定案說誰負責就好了做不下去就可能能力有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
466.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
491.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這個是麻煩衣服會在負責衣服會的示範計畫現在是部立台東醫院在推那也增加了有9位人力在那邊我想我們即刻檢討部長我覺得你可能不是很清楚因為主要這個計畫當然戴手錶是簡單的事但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
493.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
507.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
有狀況的時候訊息通報了那中間的這個接收的這個單位他必須要立刻去通知來急救的單位那這個中間這個單位他必須要24小時所以他們聘了9個人24小時的在輪 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
511.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
532.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那當然衣服會不會擔心我現在全線花蓮台東辦下去之後我這九個人我要擴大到多少人第一個人力他們會擔心再來這個錢是不是要增加那這個部分其實我覺得都有可以替大家省錢省人力的方法你們有沒有好好去想一想 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
533.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
558.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我們是不是可以配合保全 是不是可以配合村里長是不是可以配合造福源有的可以在晚上分擔一點 有的白天分擔一點都也沒有講到重點 沒有去動腦筋去想說只有說我們內部人不夠 錢不夠就是不夠我才要在這裡提出這樣的計畫難道我們在花東的這些老人家 人命就比較不值錢嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
559.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
580.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
你知道全縣這樣辦理起來如果我是獨居的或者是就是說單獨的那種老夫老妻沒有子女照顧的優先這種來處理的話全部全縣加起來才多少錢欸可能五億不到欸你花三億救台東救花蓮這些老人家很貴嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
583.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
598.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我們怕人家那個月台掉下去都可以花那麼多錢去做一個那個那個什麼柵欄什麼連垂下來了啊我們這個可以救更多人這個錢為什麼不花那個比例換算起來就比月台那個還便宜是的你們這樣拖時間真的沒道理耶一轉眼半年又過去了不好意思啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
607.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
632.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我想每一條生命不管它是在都市偏鄉都是我們應該要非常愛惜重視的所以不會特別而且我們一定我們在醫界其實也是在偏鄉點子都保障的而且有額外的那個所以都是那個一定是關心的那所以這個部分我們馬上來檢討那個哪個地方推動有障礙 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
632.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
650.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
一個好的計畫也是要去克服很多的困難那克服的就是一種經驗就是一種累積智慧那也許是一個很就形成一個好的模式我們應該往正面來來處理部長那個我再提示一件事就是說這個經費在因為畢竟 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
655.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
684.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我們參考一下啦2023年薛部長當時的財事後來這個是以長照基金來辦理那當初那個封兵的他是用那個花東基金來辦理那因為這個是照顧長者其實也跟長照有關係所以用長照基金也是非常的合理所以這個部分你們也可以朝這個方向去延續去努力我們馬上來給你跟委員報告我請示召委啊因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
685.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
714.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
黑起來太不像話 用掉我太多時間我本來還有一題有沒有要讓我問這樣子蛤食藥署的我要說萊克多巴胺 點一下 你要讓我問嗎幾分鐘我也是說不完好啦 我講一個重要的概念那 昭緯先請坐 我怕你太辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
717.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
732.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
好 我們就講快一點那因為現在講這個也感謝昭緯安排這個澳洲豬肉檢測萊克多巴胺這樣的題目那我想就是說這個議題它最終的核心價值到底是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
734.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
753.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那因為我們其實大家都可以不同有不同的想法但是本席是認為說這是要凸顯一個我們大家可以接受的健康風險的一個概念因為我們訂了一個0.01ppm的檢測標準那我相信這是衛福部跟食藥署很慎重考慮之後的可接受風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
754.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
774.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那江署長也公開對媒體表示說每天吃健康也無虞那我相信說江署長的專業一定是有所依據才會發表這麼有信心的喊話那問題的重點是在於民眾還是會擔心那如果有零減豬的豬肉大家肯定還是會優先去購買 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
776.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
801.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那我這樣講沒錯啦好那可接受的健康風險可分為說主觀的跟客觀可以接受的那衛福部當你們訂出0.01ppm的檢測標準的時候對民眾而言它就是一個客觀的可接受的健康風險但是呢健康是無價的那健康當然他們是不可替代所以人民最重要的資產這不是你政府說安全我們大家就可以放心的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
802.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
821.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
那對於這些有害健康的這個任何風險任何理性的民眾都不會願意去承擔嘛那台灣民眾他們比較在意的就是說我們大家最在意的是一個零減出的這個健康風險的一個概念嘛也就是說主觀可接受的這個健康風險其實對很多民眾來講他是零 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
823.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
845.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那孫署長我這樣講也沒錯嘛那到底這也就是為什麼說這個議題明明有的時候就沒有超標你們也都放行了可是還是要你們來立法院做專報嘛然後接受每一位委員對你們的質詢啊我想大家都很想知道說對於這些檢測出來的豬肉即使是放行了 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
846.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
861.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
那它的流向流向何去何從大家都不希望買到這批豬肉所以你們回答各界的這個態度不要只是告訴民眾說這些豬肉是多麼的合乎標準多麼的無害因為如果你們是這樣的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
862.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
879.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
這個可能有的這個健康的這些風險你們就是在強迫民眾要拋棄這個民眾自己主觀的這些疑慮然後選擇相信你們自認客觀的專業那我想就是說大家在不同的世界 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
880.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
906.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
不同的語言也就如同這個署長說剛剛署長的這個很一個專業的金句啦客觀又專業的金句就是萊豬殘留量合格每天吃也健康無虞嘛所以同樣的道理對於這個學術文獻上的報告有助於這個民眾他實質來提升的健康效益的食品民眾都有意願想要購買來使用那你們卻是要用這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
907.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
927.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
就是說落伍的天花板標準去認定這些不實誇張宣稱涉及這個醫療效能然後讓我們民眾還有這些業者無所適從嘛那你們就是 這很像是過去那種戒嚴時代對於這個新聞歌曲的政治審查一樣只要提到這個主觀的這些健康效應你們就認為說 啊 嚇我一跳 怎麼嚇壞咧 這種宣傳 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
931.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
946.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
所以沒有辦法容忍大家對於保健食品的主觀感受我今天是特別點出這些也沒有要跟你們做一些專業上的爭論因為這不同世界不同語言嘛那我現在就是說其實一般民眾不是醫療專業的人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
948.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
974.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
沒有能力沒有那個意圖去宣稱涉及醫療效能這些言論除非說你們對於自己的這個醫療專業是很沒有信心的所以你們不能接受民眾的民眾這些主觀可接受的這些風險是零然後也沒有辦法去接受民眾有權利去購買然後可以提升自己的健康狀態的任何食品也不能接受說民眾可以表達自己使用保健食品的這些心得嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
975.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
993.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
所以我希望透過今天這樣子的這個討論是凸顯你們說可能有比較有正向幫助健康保健食品然後人民使用後產生主觀的這個健康意識其實是被箝制的啦我要點出這些而且不被不被允許被討論那好結論 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
997.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1026.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
之前質詢你們有就是說也有認同本席也願意就是說在這個那時候質詢完兩個月內食品宣傳廣告認定的這個準則你們要修改那我也知道在如火如荼的進行當中那現在就是說那新的準則修訂好之前法規的命令是個過渡時期那過渡時期那你們現在接下來是要用哪個標準去執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1027.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1033.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那新的標準出來 近期或之前被裁罰的可不可以申請退回 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1034.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1058.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
這邊先跟委員進一步的報告謝謝委員進來的一些指導特別對於保健食品的功能性的持續的確我們在署內做了非常非常大幅度的一些去討論希望在範圍之內能把它的語句更精準更能夠回到功能性食品上面的能夠標示所以往這邊走是我們持續在努力的 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1059.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1088.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
至於說裁罰這個部分因為是因為司法性我們是雖然說目前一定是所謂的輔導先行的概念那但是在裁罰部分已經有裁罰的部分可能都在地方的衛生局裡面那你們有沒有辦法在很短期內比如一週內呢你們把你們的那個正面表列那些認定準則啊就是那個比如說得使用的詞句還有得敘述的生理功能的詞句或 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1089.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1115.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
類似詞句的這個類似詞句你們可以都把它列出來嗎因為這好像文字獄一樣中文好像就時間上面我覺得能不能允許多給我們一點時間我覺得因為做一些改變需要稍微更精準一點點的時間那我們會我們盡快有任何的進度都來跟委員這邊跟進一步的一些交流跟溝通我們會所以等一下我確認一下所以你現在是輔導先行嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1116.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1142.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
這個輔導先行是一直以來我們都是輔導先行的那就是說你們以那個新的準則的這個方向去做輔導先行其實是現在的準則也是都是輔導一路輔導先行的好那沒有辦法把類似詞句那個把它詳細列出來我們會盡快的跟委員這邊我們確立之後比較能夠聚焦之後跟委員這邊做完整的好所以未來還有類似詞句這樣的字眼嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1144.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1168.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
呃這些詞句上其實都會有一些修飾之後符合能夠去那你們還是要把它列出來因為我還是回到就是人不一樣的時候你的類似標準就會不一樣就會回到署長用的上次在回答我的質詢的時候用抽象這兩個字但抽象在你罰的時候要明確所以你不能再抽象下去好不好謝謝委員謝謝謝謝陳委員 |