| IVOD_ID |
16103 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16103 |
| 日期 |
2024-07-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
黨團協商-2024071514 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
立法院朝野黨團協商 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
黨團協商 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院朝野黨團協商 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2024-07-15T14:37:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2024-07-15T19:15:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:37:01 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/cbbd4ed0b5fcd3a0427ab58cc0b95e2df7e113b2fc1ff1b228aaa308df9ea37368503d14942884b85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2024-07-15T15:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院黨團協商（事由：研商有關「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」、「證券交易法第十四條條文修正草案」、「本院國民黨黨團，建請院會作成決議『立即解除人民組團赴大陸觀光之限制，並優先開放大陸觀光客循小三通赴金馬澎三離島縣旅遊觀光，請公決案。』」、「花東快速公路建設特別條例草案」、「中華民國刑法第二百八十六條條文修正草案」等五案（國民黨黨團提議）） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
14:37:59 - 19:15:00 |
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5.942 |
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7.209 |
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公路建設特別條例草案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
19.855 |
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49.815 |
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公路建設特別條例草案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
49.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
58.191 |
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公路建設特別條例草案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
87.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
102.709 |
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公園公園公園公園公園 |
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119.912 |
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123.131 |
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公路建設特別條例草案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
157.005 |
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183.345 |
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公園公園公園公園公園公園 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
185.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
214.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
公路建設特別條例草案 、中華民國公路建設特別條例草案 、中華民國公路 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
217.568 |
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220.85 |
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公路建設特別條例草案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
246.715 |
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252.322 |
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公園公園公園公園 |
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290.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
302.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
公路建設特別條例草案。」、「中華民國公路建設特別條例草案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
318.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
337.238 |
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公路建設特別條例草案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
353.639 |
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361.227 |
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公園公園公園公園公園 |
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362.995 |
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376.3 |
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公路建設特別條例草案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
376.766 |
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386.379 |
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公園公園公園公園公園 |
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399.087 |
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420.14 |
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公園公園公園公園公園公園 |
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429.48 |
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451.231 |
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公園公園公園公園公園公園 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
462.005 |
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474.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
公園公園公園公園公園公園公園 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
495.06 |
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515.205 |
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公園公園公園公園公園公園 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
526.083 |
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536.956 |
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公園公園公園公園 |
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567.961 |
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581.558 |
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公路建設特別條例草案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
595.472 |
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599.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
公園公園公園公園 |
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613.985 |
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643.433 |
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公路建設特別條例草案。」、「中華民國公路建設特別條例草案。」、 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
655.526 |
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657.508 |
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公園公園公園公園公園公園公園 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
687.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
692.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
公園公園公園公園公園公園公園 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
711.271 |
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720.01 |
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公路建設特別條例草案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
735.879 |
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759.832 |
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公路建設特別條例草案。」、「中華民國公路建設特別條例草案。」、「中華民國公路建設特別條例草案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
765.23 |
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793.245 |
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公路建設特別條例草案。」、「中華民國公路建設特別條例草案。」、「中華民國公路建設特別條例草案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
821.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
824.861 |
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公園公園公園公園 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
850.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
852.885 |
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公路建設特別條例草案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
874.445 |
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902.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
公園公園公園公園 |
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926.22 |
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942.586 |
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公路建設特別條例草案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
982.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
987.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
公園公園公園公園公園公園公園 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
1015.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
1032.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
公路建設特別條例草案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
1045.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
1074.457 |
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公路建設特別條例草案。」、「中華民國公路建設特別條例草案。」、「中華民國公路建設特別條例草案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
1118.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
1139.658 |
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公路建設特別條例草案。」、「中華民國公路建設特別條例草案。」、 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
1155.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
1160.793 |
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公園公園公園公園 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
1204.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
1215.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
公園公園公園公園 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
1222.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
1233.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
公園公園公園公園 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
1254.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
1261.758 |
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公路建設特別條例草案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
1330.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
1339.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
那議事組通知一下那個還有兩個民進黨團到了還有民眾黨團現在幹部一個都沒到通知一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
1361.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
1384.226 |
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好謝謝各位黨團幹部請坐各位列席的委員請坐時間已經到了我先介紹一下今天蒞臨的行政部門的閣員以及官員我們首先我們非常歡迎衛生福利部的邱部長歡迎您社會保險司的劉司長歡迎您法規會的陳參事歡迎您 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
1389.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
1397.074 |
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中央健康保險署的石署長,歡迎您。歡迎您。行政組織總署的陳副組織長,歡迎您。國家發展委員會人力發展處的阮專門委員,歡迎您。歡迎您。 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
1405.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1421.471 |
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跟各位黨團幹部報告也跟各位列席的委員報告我們現在訂好是三點鐘開始但是已經三點零一分了所以我們現在議事人員在跟還有台灣民眾黨團還沒有黨團幹不到我們再聯繫一下然後再跟大家報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1512.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1532.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
跟所有黨團幹部還有委員報告台灣民眾黨他們來電話大概晚五到十分鐘回到現場不好意思請大家再等一下也跟邱部長還有各位官員說一聲抱歉那大概台灣民眾黨要剛剛來電話通知大概晚十分鐘左右不好意思請大家輕鬆一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1838.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1861.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
歡迎陳導致委員,歡迎請坐。你們黨團幹部正在路上啊?他們不會過來?阿翔哥你怎麼把我們抹紅成那個樣子?也沒說到道歉?他們黨團幹部確定不來嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1866.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1879.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
教職委員確定黨團幹部不來的所以目前只有我會出席那韓院長您才是我可不可以發言那草野協商你沒有黨團幹部他當然有授權給我Bios我 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1892.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1918.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
那個好 因為那個山山山山可能我可以請他嘗試過來但是我們黨真的希望吳委員您可以幫我們做個道歉因為你把我們抹紅的太嚴重了而且我陳昭之不能讓你抹紅的那個麻煩我們把那個門口先不好意思各位外面新聞界好朋友我們現在為了開會能夠專心我們把門稅管制一下 謝謝好 周志偉謝謝 您稍微等一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1920.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1948.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
各位黨團幹部現在台灣民眾黨黨團幹部沒有到現場這個對朝野協商來說是不具法定效力那能不能分我們分兩個步驟第一個請陳昭州委員再跟你黨團幹部最前面來一位這是第一個請聯絡第二個咧在等待過程我們不能一味的這樣等下去我們還是請黨團還有很多熱心的委員也到了現場加邱部長還有衛福部很多官員都在我們可以先把意見來表達 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1950.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1957.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
那也許等一下他們會有黨團幹部到現場來會有新的契機發生我們再說那首先 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1961.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1983.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
現在跟大家報告一下現在我們併案協商的是全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案共五案我們以併案審查已經完整三案分別是王育敏十九位委員、蘇清泉等二十八位委員及國民黨團分別凝聚全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案進覆二讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1985.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2001.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
兩案,一,謝一鳳二十一位委員,二,楊瓊英二十六位委員,分別凝聚全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案。」現在主要爭議點就在於是否需法律明定 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2003.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2030.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
醫療服務總點數每點費用下限問題。」這是一個爭議點那介紹完各位已經介紹完列席的我們邱部長及各位官員那現在三本草案審查及協商的進度一社會福利及衛生環境委員會於今年五月二日完成審查二於五月十五日六月十九及七月五日進行黨團協商但是並沒有完成協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2032.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2047.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
4.我們現在開始進行協商5.我們繼續還要接著討論附帶決議6.全民健康保險法第...好這個到這裡我想我們主要的爭議點能不能請我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2050.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2078.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
王玉明我召集委員您先發言好嗎?謝謝院長我陳希信院長謝謝院長等一下等一下稍等一下先問陳希我請王玉明總召集委員因為民進黨民進黨黨團當然根本沒有來陳召集委員來離島他們應該面目有授權有授權嘛山山已經走過來了反正到最後沒有關係最後簽名一夥在最後的事情所以應該是沒有所謂說不計效率的問題啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2079.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2080.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
公路建設特別條例草案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2099.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2100.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2111.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2113.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
其實也舉辦過這個公聽會就是讓各方去表達這樣的一個意見那這個事情為什麼一定非修法不可呢主要其實是現在的衛福部他的己父他並沒有保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2129.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2146.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
建保點子並沒有保障。」所以他是非常浮動的前陣子我上次已經講過臺北市醫師公會跟新北市醫師公會都詢問給立法院了他說最近這個案件數就是流感上升加上COVID之後他們的點子下降到只有0.8幾 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2149.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2150.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
公路建設特別條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2169.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2187.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
總額成長是有限的。」所以在這樣的情況底下他們都很痛苦醫界是很痛苦就是說一個不確定的這樣的一個健保點子所以醫界他現在的訴求其實非常明白就三件事情第一個就是要保障健保點子前一陣子包括台大醫院 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2187.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2200.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
跟榮總、北榮兩位院長他們都有開一個記者會那他們出來之後他說他們只要求要保障健保點值那臺大院院長說最好是0.92到0.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2203.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2222.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
這個是最有權威的兩大醫院的院長他們的訴求還是希望要保障健保點子這樣子他們實質在運作上面才不會說這個心裡非常的浮動不知道今年這個多做了之後這些醫療然後又被這個整個健保署就倒扣回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2223.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2223.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2245.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
2247.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
公路建設特別條例草案 中華民國公路建設特別條例草案 中華民國公路建設特別條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
2271.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
2297.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
我們保障了這個健保點值讓醫院有充分的這個營運的費用之後他們可以為醫事人員加薪我想這個是非常重要的大家每次在這一些疾病疫情的時候都會說我們一線的醫護真的非常的辛苦他們非常的血汗但是事情過了之後就忘了所以大家還記得嗎賴清德總統他在去年 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
2298.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
2310.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
要選舉的時候11月他自己說幫醫護人員請命他要求他要求當時的行政院你要撥補預算然後他要求當時的健保點子你要給到1.1元 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
2313.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
2343.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
這次當時賴清德總統選舉之前他說他要幫醫護人員請命然後還要求行政院要增加預算那我想今天國民黨黨團包括蘇清泉委員跟我所提出來的這個版本就是希望我們可以明確保障這個醫院他們醫事人員這麼辛苦在第一線維護大家的健康那我們應該要確保醫院是要永續的運作那整個政府有責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
2343.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
2370.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
基部給醫院的健保點子應該要有一定的保障而不是像現在這樣子浮動的所以我希望這個法案其實是為了醫療人員為了他們的第一線也為了整個醫療院所的永續醫療院所永續才有健保的永續所以希望透過這次的修法的討論我們真的可以做到三點保障保障健保點子提高健保總成長率為醫事人員加薪這三件事謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
2374.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
2387.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
謝謝我們召集委員、王育民委員講得非常的清楚啊。現在我們三個團團發言完畢之後就請邱部長請準備發言。我們首先請國民黨團林思明委員首副請發言。然後請柯總召、吳思堯委員請準備。 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
2390.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
2407.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
謝謝院長、各位黨團幹部、各位委員以及我們衛福部邱部長我想這個健保點值這件事情我們在上次的協商其實大家也談了蠻久了我想衛福部也有充分表達衛福部的意見但是我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
2408.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
2429.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
我們還是基於說我們整個未來醫療品質的提升以及讓我們的醫護人員有更好的一個待遇那讓我們台灣的醫療環境能夠更好我們還是認為健保的點只要有保底如果你沒有保底的話我想這些這個不管是醫療院所或者我們醫護呢大家都很擔心 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
2430.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
2458.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
每天就是更操勞但是我應該獲得的報酬那個醫院端因為他的這個獲得的這個健保的一個分擔分配到的金額不夠造成整個醫療院所他們沒有辦法給他們加薪所以他們真的是叫做血汗醫護很辛苦所以我還是希望衛福部你要提出如果你認為說這個法不應該修但你要怎麼做到目前為止我們完全看不到衛福部的一個很積極的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
2460.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
2460.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案． |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
2489.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
2510.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
內席人員這問題在上次我們談了很久也談很透徹那所講的不外乎國民黨所講法不外乎沒有超過上次講的第一個就是說王一鳴委員剛才講到一個事情說你開過公聽會結論就是說非修法不可 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
2512.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
2527.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
我們今天談要修法的時候也並非那個條文二十六十二條然後表決通過然後就是要照這樣做因為市民有問這樣修一個點子一塊錢的話是要三千億的 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
2530.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
2557.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
安保費額不增加的話那這件事其實是破產嘛所以我們今天要講一個就是說選舉的時候的一些證件和說法並非我知道那時候火雨嘛應該是火雨嘛1.1塊錢嘛大家都很高興沒有你等一下你聽我講完我們把很多事理清啊大家不知道會不會那有很多人理清在談事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
2560.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
2579.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
所以當然一屆也都很高興一屆也都是我的朋友也是在座各位的朋友他們的現在意見所碰到困難幫到團體也看過韓院長我也看過也看過我想也看過邱部長在選前的時候我們也跟他常常碰面這是一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
2581.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
2608.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
但是我相信每一屆人都會想說,我們能夠滿足所有的需求吧,可以加薪啊,點資料保障啊,什麼都來。但是我們要看這個整個健保稅,健保它本來這個總額本來又一來一直增加嘛,現在已經總額已經二十年嘛,那現在已經到八千七百多億嘛,明年想九千多億了,今年應該會到九千多億。所以要了解說,這是財富的問題嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
2611.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
2639.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
不是單一個解決方式就要修了就結關我想也不是這麼回事大家都想去解決這個問題我覺得我們應該理性來談這是第一點第二點就是保障點子我想每一個人都希望說能夠給你保障當然最好能夠加薪這個都是坦白講藝術人員的辛苦大家也知道每一個行業都有他的辛苦的一面 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
2641.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
2662.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
我的講法就是說第一個不存在所謂我們比較不贊成所謂非修法不可啦這是第一個修法也不是立法院立法委員提一個法修然後國家會一心多意我想這個在大概了解這種這種在香港程序上面也不合不合了 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
2663.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
2672.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
至於在總統在選舉的時候講的他只是說所謂的他也講他自己很痛苦嘛他只是說以1.1塊錢為目標啦他沒有講這麼實嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
2678.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
2704.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
他是異界出身的,他很清楚嘛。然後009以一塊錢為目標,這是一種大家的期許嘛。他沒有說一定要收一塊錢。所以我們今天肯定就是說,不過剛才市民委員講一個不需要要如何做,我自己也來講,沒關係。這個還比較實際,那你不懂大家來討論一下嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
2706.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
2721.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
長短期、中期、長期應該怎麼做?政府所謂的健康投資要怎麼做?有些東西包括不應該塞進健保的應該拿出來吧?包括36%裡面我們要把它講清楚嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
2725.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
2748.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
所以我看法就是說我們盡量朝一個理性的方式來談談那單一直線的講法我想可能不大適合謝謝柯建民總召的發言跟各位黨團幹部還有委員報告我們第一輪先各黨團幹部發言完畢之後馬上開放各位委員都可以自由發言那現在國民黨團發言完民進黨團也發言現在請黃珊珊幹事長請發言那我們先黨團幹部發言因為現在還有吳思瑤在準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
2760.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
2770.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
建保長期投資太少,這是不爭的事實,包括醫療投資也是如此,我們在OECD國家百分比是不到70,在前一次我也一再強調。 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
2772.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
2790.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
因為這樣的狀況下我們給付的扭曲非常的嚴重我自己在生態健保所當專家委員甚至召集人長達將近三十年我以癌症來做舉例全世界沒有一個國家對癌症的給付是只有他的適應症的三分之一不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
2790.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
2792.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
公路建設特別條例草案 中華民國公路建設特別條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
2814.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
2832.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
提出那該做什麼呢?」只有說不做什麼那該做什麼始終都沒有提也沒有提出修正案也沒有提出配套做法這是不負責任的那本黨在這個之前這個在委員會我們就提出三項的附帶決議我先把它講一次然後我要求等會我會要求這個包括執政黨或是說衛福部這邊要提出這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
2838.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
2844.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
優先次序跟執行的時程。第一個,我們的三項附帶決議,就是點植保障的範疇優先用於提升醫事人員的薪酬待遇,當然包括很重要的護理師,確保醫護的待遇能夠獲得改善。第二個,針對這個指示要依法退出健保給付擬定時程表,健保署不要再帶頭違法,不然有本事就把這個法律改掉,應該要回歸 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
2863.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
2874.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
建保藥保大病校,病症民眾自己照顧。」因為眼前的健保,就是小病保得滿,大病有大缺口,非常的嚴重,集中那個南韓症,又有非常大的缺口。第三個,逐步設定合理的要價差的這個界線,現在沒有個官員敢提要價差。剛剛提到了兩千多億的這個藥費,事實上有七百億是要價差。 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
2887.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
2891.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
七百為什麼有這個要價差呢因為這長期這個醫這個專業服務費不足所以讓逼迫醫院跟醫師去以藥養醫靠其他的方式來做這個彌補我們希望讓醫療院所正正當當的賺錢他們用醫療來專業來服務照顧大家他們有權利得到正正當當的這個一個正好的正常的收入所以我以下提出幾點我也希望健保署那個衛福部這邊能夠理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
2913.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
2921.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
等下我希望能夠有清楚的這個時程或是優先次序的確認然後這個提出我們這個民眾黨想法那因為我們的主席他也是在議界非常的長久他也理解我們知道純粹的點子還不還不足以改善現在的健保的這個扭曲的困境第一個當然講的是只是要不給付因為根據目前第51條除非你把它修正那這個論點是在於 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
2938.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
2939.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
2963.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
2967.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
七百億的要價差但是全台灣四百家醫療院所溢價能力完全不同所以大醫院是大者恆大強者恆強我們整個醫療結構是扭曲的那專業服務費的調升這是非常重要剛剛我也提到你想連醫師看一個診都兩百多塊錢謊論其他的醫療人員那剛剛我提到醫院的一定比率要用於改善醫護的待遇 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
2991.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
2997.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
然後不要認為我們台灣是醫療第一好嗎我們台灣輸太多了這是民眾所不理解的除了看病方便他們把健保的滿意度打成90%90分以上事實上他們不知道我們癌症的存活率我們的新生兒死亡率我們的糖尿病的這個合併症死亡率我們的平均壽命都遠遠落後很多國家包括鄰近的國家都在末段班 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3015.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3017.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
第六個就是醫療科技的評估一定要好好處理要把確定錢花在刀口上但是怎麼來評估我們現在還留在非常落後的階段沒有升級沒有進階一直留在2007年的算法就是加減的算法 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3032.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3052.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
沒有辦法把真正的醫療費用改善國人的品質包括讓孩子回到學校上課包括讓成年人回到職場工作增加生產力包括如何減輕家庭的負擔包括如何減少長照醫資源的使用這個都是衛福部衛福部改名就是因為它有衛生福利部而不再是純粹的衛生署以上這幾點 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3056.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3074.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
配套措施或是做法我希望今天能夠得到得到這個衛福部這邊有一個優先次序的跟時程的一個初步的資料那這個以上表達民眾黨的意見謝謝主席謝謝陳昭之委員發言然後請吳思耀委員發言然後接著請邱部長準備請 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3077.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3091.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
好 謝謝主席這個題目我們也透過不管是委員會的審查或者是協商上一次我都充分對話那我想民進黨團絕對是支持國家來增加對於健康醫療的投資這沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3092.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3116.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
我們也絕對是全力來想方設法一起來改良醫護工作環境然後改善他們的福祉這也是我們要共同努力那當然很重要的民進黨團也決力決定也一定全力來改革健保制度這都是我們一定要做的事情但是現在回到這個法案的命題是要讓典值第一個保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3117.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3140.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
然後第二個要入法那當然在制度面我們也多次的論述如果典值的入法那就形同讓健保總額支付的制度它會被打破那健保的永續運作堪慮甚至會引發城鄉差距失衡的一個副作用在制度面我們也多所的談及那在法制面還是要提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3141.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3159.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
立委提案來增加政府的支出這對於預算法以及財政紀律法裡頭都有所焊隔所以法制面還是要請委員們多所斟酌財務面當然我們都知道如果保障點值0.95要增加705億 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3161.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3175.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
1.1元要1155億,更嚴峻的是,我們現在的安全準備可能明年114年就一次用慶了,所以說現行的費率如果5.17%就不足之應的話,可能113年底對人民要來調賬保費,這可能會是連帶的影響,這個事情姿勢體大。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3185.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3187.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3213.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3240.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
將健保支付的這個公衛預算由公務預算來支應等等其實有很多的配套都會盡可能達到對於點值0.92往以上的提高嗎這個都是他們在行政作為就不入法不修法的處理我希望等一下大家能夠讓行政部門多一點說明那最後一點呢是我也要補充剛剛玉敏委員也都提到我也關照到台大醫院跟榮總院長對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3242.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3263.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
修法的這個說法。」那我手上拿的這個是聯合報聯合報是說健保點值入法保障1.1元臺大院長吳明賢是不贊成他有他的觀點然後這個是中央社的報導臺大醫院跟北榮的院長兩個龍頭都表態不贊成健保點值 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3263.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3279.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
每點一元。」這個是新聞也是他們的說法那我可以再進入他們的完整的一個論述就是說像吳明璇院長也提到如果說修法來保障點值一點一元的話恐怕會導致醫界充量過度醫療 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
3282.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
3294.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
沒有辦法這是人性所致。」所以說這樣子入法的方式真的值得去審酌而且就會造成健保制度設計另一個層面嚴重的問題那當然榮總院長陳威名 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
3297.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
3318.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
他也看法跟吳明賢院長、臺大院長想法一致那當然如何以保久然後行政作為再努力往上調這是醫界都努力也都樂見其成的事但是兩個醫院的龍頭臺大跟榮總是不支持用入法的方式來保障點值1.1元 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
3319.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
3319.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
公路建設特別條例草案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
3335.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
3363.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
他也一再的再次強調也還原他當初的說法那當然總統也強力責成行政部門要用各種的行政作為然後來提高我們健保的這個點值來讓醫界確實能夠緩解一些壓力所以我很希望我們很理性的坐在這裡討論這個問題如果能夠行政部門就靠你們的功力趕快拿出你們完整的配套然後充分的說明然後來說服在野黨的委員大家的目標都一致 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
3364.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
3382.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
來協助醫界然後提升我們的醫療投資我們的目標是一致的但是不入法不用入法的方式是說服大家我們一樣能夠做到反而真的入法可能造成了其他的副作用這個制度的崩壞這不是我們能夠負得起的一個後果也不是大家所樂見的謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
3385.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
3412.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
我想我們大家都非常期待邱部長等一下來做出說明部長你有三種身份你當醫生又當立法委員現在又是衛福部長都對你期待很高請說明好 謝謝院長更謝謝各黨團的代表跟各位我敬愛的委員還有所有的工作夥伴那真的衷心的感謝各黨團還有所有的委員為了我們台灣醫療品質的提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
3412.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
3439.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
我們醫事人員的尊嚴還有他們的收入的維持特別是關心到所有醫療院所的順利運作這也是二十年來我想我們不管是在醫師公會或者我們跟衛福部的互動當中都是以這三個原則在努力那我想現在的醫療的環境比較不好我們真的每一個人都有責任昨天晚上我們也很感動賴總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
3440.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
3451.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
在藥師公會前面會的會員代表大會裡面特別在強調一切所碰到的任何問題都是他以及我們行政部門必須要 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
3452.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
3476.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
來解決的。」那我也感動得到當然各位陳清惠委員曾經提到我2018年5月提出的一個互待結議真的我們都很希望跟大家一樣很希望能夠讓醫療的一個環境能夠改善我們就是往這一方面在努力那在今年的 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
3479.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
3493.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
內總統一當選了以後馬上在推動的六場健康台灣論壇其實那是有史以來算是比較大型的全國的醫政會醫政跟健保的改革會議收集了一千兩百位 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
3494.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
3523.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
專家的一個建議他從全人從生到死各個階段我們怎麼樣來給他們最好的照顧包括孕婦的生產以後的孕婦的第四產期還有整個我們擴大我們的篩檢的上下的年齡廣度深度其實這個我們現在都很努力在做所以目前的一個當然這其中最重要就是健保的改革 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
3524.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
3537.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
建保改革分為進程、中程、遠程。這個我們日以繼夜在進行。第一個,我們首先把由公務預算支出的 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
3538.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
3564.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
過去塞在健保的我們把它移出來我們總共最近衛福部上上下下的清出來大家都毫無私心的認為這個是應該是請公務應該是可以由公務預算的這個部分我們清出了十七大項這七大項理論上如果一年一年地做三年應該會達到三百多億那假設一年的一百多億這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
3565.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
3580.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
就是我們清出來的那另外36%的一個建築的支出我們也希望那個都能夠純粹是給健保的這個部分也可以清除一百大概四十億 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
3581.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
3583.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
3602.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
3615.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
在明年的一個高推估跟低推估都是有史以來最高的所以在總額的成長力可能有史以來最高應該可以增加到增加了309億到484億我想這樣的一個情況之下309億309億到 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
3626.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
3654.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
那個484億當然我們也希望國會會跟大家一起努力然後醫界也要把你要做什麼要提清楚那這樣才能夠對得起我們那個整個政府的行政部門的支持那這樣的話我再度跟各位保證一定你給我時間我們一定保證2014年點子一定0.9以上而且可以衝到 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
3656.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
3680.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
零點九零以上,但是可以再往上衝啊。啊這個衝多少,就是看,還有很多的因素很多啦,這包括收入面,我先另外最後一個,當然不是說只有收入面,這個包括這,然後後來中層方面,未來如果要讓健保永續,是不是我們考慮來研究補充保惠的處理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
3681.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
3694.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
那這個部分也是未來要做的事情那這個部分大概也可以讓健保更加永續但是更重要的就是我們怎麼樣讓健保的資源有效的應用抑制不必要的支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
3695.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
3718.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
所以其實衛福部很積極在推動分級醫療跟家庭意識制度剛剛幾位我敬愛的委員都是提到說看病太多次其實你只要有家庭意識制度你會少看太多次所以就會節省掉很多很多的醫療資源所以前面的實行那個家庭意識制度其實國家也在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
3719.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
3742.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
我記得十年前我跟柯文哲當時準市長也談了好幾次他想要在臺北市做家庭醫師制度我想王副市長也很清楚但是可惜都沒有完全的落實但是我們已經其實我們已經有一個家庭醫師制度社區醫療群他已經是臺灣的驕傲我們在基層醫療 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
3743.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
3768.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
有五個到十個的醫師組成一個家庭醫師群無論在做了很多的預防保健的工作當然我們的預防保健的成績其實是一直在維持比較好的一個成績第二個在疫情的當中我們做了很多居家的照顧病人在臺北市一天有一萬個infected的COVID的感染病人都是靠這些家庭醫師 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
3770.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
3778.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
他們願意用視訊去關心那個發燒的小孩他們讓他家裡不要衝急診讓台灣的大醫院的急診不要倒 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
3780.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
3805.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
這個就是社區醫療院家庭醫師當時對臺灣防疫的重大貢獻這個我們要繼續努力那至於低風險的一些相關的工作我們希望能夠給基層醫療來照顧讓區域型的醫院區域以上的醫院可以保持能量但是他們的給付一定要合理的提高那當然我們也會優化健保的雲端的各種減少重複用藥檢驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
3807.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
3830.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
檢查當然對於醫療服務的審查我想我們一定會合理的來抑制不當的成長滾動式的當然要滾動式來檢討藥品跟醫材的幾乎規範我想這個是趙志偉很重視的那我想這樣的一個努力不但可以讓健保永續我們馬上就可以讓可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
3831.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
3842.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
一定可以一年內這一年內就應該可以得到很好的一個健保的一個點子點子那當然更重要就是我們要 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
3843.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
3870.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
治療他的根本的問題,把根本的問題解決的話,我們健保才能夠永續。」所以我想我們有很多的方法可以來改善醫療的環境,改善健保,但是入法的一個爭議,我想我們是不是先可以割下來,我們先讓衛福部有一年的時間,來把這些努力,如果真的做得還不夠,我們再來檢討,這是我們衛福部的立場。以上報告,謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
3872.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
3899.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
我們都可以感受到邱部長很有誠意講的真的連我自己都很感動他保證0.9以上給他一年的時間但是不管怎麼我把邱部長重點我再簡短扼壓的向大家報告一下這是很有意義的一個黨團這樣的互動跟行政部門來接下來我們開放各位委員可以發言第一位蘇清泉委員發言第二位陳金威委員發言還有還有沒有其他的委員我要做登記王振旭委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
3900.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
3928.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
侯孟凱書記長好請好謝謝謝謝主席還有我們民進黨國民黨的黨團還有邱部長我這裡要特別報告的是我們的總額不是今天才開始做我們總額已經只有22年了22年了那過去最糟糕的就是過去的這八年蔡英文執政越來越糟糕每一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
3930.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
3954.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
醫療的成長跟總額國防會核定的成長是不成比例所以剛剛一直在講0.9就很爽了很好了我跟大家報告這個事情今天如果沒處理這間的廢棄沒處理醫療又沒了再拖又是十年了然後啦所有的醫護等等就是用腳走路用腳投票都一個一個在跑 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
3957.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
3983.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
賴總統跟卓院長有緣的孫去各大醫院的急診室走一走、瞧一瞧就知道事情什麼情況上個禮拜我在卓院長的總知情我有問他我說院長你知道你明年會生幾次病嗎他說他不知道你會生小病還是大病他還不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
3984.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4001.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
在座的行政官員也沒有人知道但是我們有一個單位叫做行政院我們一個國發費他可以預測你每年要花多少錢你每年要花多少錢這個不是邱太安部長的層級所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4003.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4017.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
前台委員部長在做立委的時候,他提案,他的臉書寫,我都把他找出來,他講的一次最亮化的是,0.92要到一塊錢,要455億,這一下的,要怎麼算的我不知道,現在想想說,1.1塊錢要1000多億,怎麼算的? |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4023.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4051.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
什麼零點九五要七百多億怎麼算的我們再怎麼算這十年用十年就好這十年來每一年真的造成的醫療費用跟要支付的每一年都差不多四百到五百億的落差醫界這樣每一年四五百億四五百億一十年不要說二十年一十年就已經四五千億這已經超過醫界的負荷所以我們所有醫界的都打一打 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4052.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4070.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
所以現在沒有能力反過來改善勞動條件增加薪資等等那又碰到一個新冠新冠從去年截止丟到健保總額去幾戶之後就融戶之後電池大幅下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4072.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4094.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
今年又來了今天早上講的美國最新的KP2這個病毒又毒又強又快可能再過幾個月台灣就會洗剪台灣這種還是丟到健保裡面上個禮拜七萬個新病例再上個禮拜十萬個新病例這個全部都是丟給健保 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4096.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4122.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
丟給異界啦!」第三個我看看健保署真的是很棒他一天到晚就是請人家開菜單開開的丟給異界去承受昨天我們的石崇亮署長很英明他講了46項的達文西手術要幾副啦?誰副?健保總額副然後你跟病人收個材料費 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4123.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4137.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
這個手術好不好?這個手術非常好啊!這個手術是化時代的進步,我們當然希望那個深一點的手術,像我們心臟外科的,或者是直腸外科的、泌尿科的,當然是用這種手術,是很好啊!那很好你就沒錢啊!你用那些幼稚園的錢,要做幼稚園的事情,然後你一天天有開菜單,一天天有請客人,賣單都叫他自己賣單,然後現在說0.9就不錯了! |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4151.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4172.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
不用叫台大跟榮總的院長都不要在情緒勒索啦,台大院長情緒告訴我他也是贊成這樣一個人啦,不然你就叫他來問啦,但是他就不跟我說啊,可能會用外地啊,所以會怕啊,所以,大家都是他自己的老兵,大家都總得很了解,那我跟大家報告,現在衛福部,你要承諾說我開大隊齁,今天開開的,這件事沒處理, |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4180.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4181.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
負責負責負責負責負責負責負貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4202.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4228.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
謝謝蘇清泉委員的發言接下來請陳金威委員發言請王振旭委員準備謝謝主席謝謝關心這個議題的委員謝謝我們衛福部的長官在這邊其實蠻沉重的因為我們已經走到第三次的協商了但是在這整個協商的過程越拖其實醫療是不斷的在崩壞我們這個是路人甲乙丙丁都知道的問題到底做醫事人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4229.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4249.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
所有的醫事人員現在非常多人在收看這個頻道做一塊錢的工作到底是不是拿一塊錢我想這是大家都同意的而且政府保障我們人民的健康保障醫事人員的工作權尊嚴還有平等權本來就是天經地義的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4250.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4263.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
剛有講到說一點億元可能會造成醫療的浪費我想問一下這邊有厲害的人可以告訴我多少錢就不會造成浪費嗎幾元是不會造成浪費0.95不會0.92不會0.9一定不會嗎這邊有專家可以告訴我一點多少錢是不會被浪費的嗎那當然台大院長還有講過非常多的話之前去年有一個很好的醫療服務國際評比 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4278.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
4305.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
是由全世界的商務客評比說台灣是醫療服務第一名那個時候臺大的院長很痛心疾首的說他看到這樣子的調查一點都不快樂他說如果他是一個企業的CEO早就已經被開除因為他深知這個醫療服務第一名是長期壓榨醫護的血汗所造成的在這邊我也對部長很不好意思啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
4306.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
4318.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
因為上次講了您2018年的發言以後現在也找到您2016年的發言您當時是第九屆的立法委員您在財政委員會的時候跟我們的主計總處質詢您講到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
4321.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
4338.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
主計長保障醫護人員的工作權這個就是政府最基本的責任醫護人員今天不是很惡霸的跟你要求要五毛給一塊現在是希望做一塊錢的工作可以有收到一塊錢這麼簡單您還問主計總長說請問全台灣有哪一種工作哪一個機關的薪水是用總額的當預算不夠薪水就打九折打八折有這樣的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
4349.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
4375.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
這是您2016年總質詢的時候問了朱澤民主計長的話我也希望可以換回您的初衷跟您的回憶因為您當時剛上任立法院的時候你告訴他說這個真的是對醫護人員、醫事人員這個總額的方式是不對的甚至您當時2016年呢也在我們的未還委員會有講到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
4377.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
4395.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
除了您通過一點議員的臨時提案您還講到說一定要打破健保的總額還給醫療公道才能發揮基層醫療我們的長照才能社區化所以其實醫界對您也是非常期盼更是有很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
4396.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
4421.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
醫界的人士是在最後號召全部的人聽到賴總統說1.1元所以我們現在還是要回來投給賴總統最後才轉向回來投票的所以大家昨天看到電視是很傷心因為投票前說1.1元然後投票完了以後請大家一定要三思我也在這邊更新一下因為台大醫院的這個急診亂象自從 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
4422.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
4423.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
公路建設特別條例草案 中華民國公路建設特別條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
4445.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
4471.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
除了COVID以外還有各種病毒肆虐所以所有的醫學專家都說今年的夏天非常不平靜現在的小朋友在急診是要等三天才能住院這個是上週的新聞甚至有醫師他是坐著救護車陪小朋友到處轉院去找有沒有住院的地方可以住許多包括執政黨我現在就不說名字但是執政黨的委員也告訴我 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
4472.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
4499.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
今年是他們歷年來接到沒有病床的陳情已經到了失控的程度上禮拜四天前有一個新聞所有的醫師看了好痛心他是一個醫師親自目睹並且把他寫出來說他的感想這是他第一次看到在急診因為沒有病床所以有一個人他是坐在輪椅上被電擊器電擊救回來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
4500.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
4501.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
全民健康保險法第六十二條文修正草案：立法院黨團協商有關 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
4519.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
4523.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
我也在上次跟陳建仁前院長還有薛瑞元前部長我把他們2018年的醫療白皮書的證件拿出來再把歷年來分級醫療的比例全部整理給他們看結果過了八年到醫學中心的就醫比例完全沒有降低所以他九年前的醫療改革是沒有用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
4543.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
4559.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
好 那既然我們改革沒有用其實醫護人員就是用腳投票而已嘛他們會到別的產業去發展嗎等你真的改革完畢了其實他們已經消失了啊所以2015年蔡前總統就說要 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
4560.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
4567.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
要提升醫護人員點值結果是越來越低好您在2016年說要打破健保總額2018年說要達到1.1元接著賴總統也這樣子的發言為什麼我們要入法呢因為入法就是給我們最基層的醫事人員一個定心丸昨天賴總統說 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
4583.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
4600.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
這個可能也不是最簡單的方法但是是這個他說不一定是最好的方法但是是一個簡單的方法可是到底什麼是最好的方法是拼命的擠壓醫護血汗做功德這個就是最好的方法嗎因為過去九年是這樣可是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
4601.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
4614.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
大家都知道這個房間裡面的大象沒有人要講出來而已因為現在的慘況醫事人員護理師的怒氣高壓工作量離職率已經到了最頂最頂的時候了 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
4616.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
4632.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
所以剛剛我也要呼應所有人說的我們到底是怎麼算出來一千多億又是從哪一個基準點開始算的這個也是邱部長之前問過主計總長我們是從總額比較低的年度來計算嗎那這次我們為了討論健保法 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
4634.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
4653.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
書面報告衛福部也提到說我們這個預算可能會影響到教育、文化、經濟、國防等等部會每一個部會應該是很積極的來為自己的部門所需要的預算來爭取才對而不是幫忙說其他的部門也要錢啊這個衛福部說要增加太多預算還是主計總署要增加太多預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
4655.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
4678.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
這個計算的標準其實大家現在看不出來到底是怎麼算出來的那當然最基層的醫護人員也跟我講到說他們看電視也很心寒因為比如說很多的執政黨的委員就在各大委員會一直在講這個速發布沒有辦法好好落實他們的工作連兒少的性剝削影像都下架不了卻每年的預算超過兩百億我們也覺得說難道 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
4682.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
4695.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
這些錢就不是白花而撥補給醫事人員就是白花嗎今天大家很傷心的是這個是很多人最後投票的一個動力結果卻變成好像恐嚇大家說我們如果沒有漲保費是做不到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
4700.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
4727.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
但是所有的醫事人員也看到勞動部部長說勞保是絕對不會倒的撥補就是一種改革我也想聽邱部長聽到這樣子的話是情何以堪我們今天要求一點議員入法是讓我們所有已經要崩壞的醫事人員吃下一個定心丸沒有人有辦法去計算他今年的這個營運他有沒有辦法在今年的年底拿到多少點的點值 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
4728.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
4736.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
未來我們還希望可以要求公務預算撥補的基金可以常態化讓政府對人民的健康照護就要正常化要常態化這個對健康我們把它當成一個投資真的希望大家不要當成一個成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
4744.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
4767.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
因為這本來就是我們照顧人民健康還有第一線我們作戰的醫事人員最基本的義務我們真的每年這樣子接到陳情苦苦的哀求哀求衛福部提供撥補提供提高點值這個是他們照顧人民的健康是天經地義而不是每年這樣子苦苦的哀求大家所以在這邊真的是很卑微的拜託謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
4768.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
4773.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
謝謝陳金威委員的發言接下來我們請王振旭委員請發言王國凱委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
4777.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
4801.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
非常感謝主席還有委員同仁大家好我是王正旭我來自醫界剛剛不管誰提到的醫療困境我都非常非常的理解我也真的很認同醫療資源一定要再增加一定要適度的有效的擴充這個回應剛剛王昭偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
4804.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
4815.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
在開始就提到了提高總額的成長率這是必須要的而且是要有效的來提升那對我來講就是針對這樣的這個所謂用 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
4819.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
4843.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
典值入法是不是能夠解決目前大家感受到目前的醫療困境這是我們值得探討的問題事實上總召、柯總召也提過吳世耀幹事長也提到我們如果真的是要面對困境來解決的時候除了這個部分以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
4845.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
4867.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
會不會是還有其他更好的方式那剛剛部長也把它預計要在未來的一年裡面短中長期能夠讓醫療資源擴充的同時也去解決這些困境的部分這個我想我們就是要理性的來探討我們面對這些困境的時候那如果這樣做會有什麼可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
4868.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
4892.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
保治的問題如果其他方式的話能不能夠針對我們的困境解決可以讓這個困境得以紓解的同時又不會去衍生其他的問題我想剛剛臺大的院長總總院長他們所提出來的這些觀點大家都已經有非常多的討論我這邊再引用一位沈正郎醫師 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
4893.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
4905.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
沈正南醫師在《望中媒體》所提到的觀點是說只要有點子保障就會衝破健保總額 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
4909.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
4935.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
大家可能有不同的這些了解或者是不同觀點那我這邊就引用他的裡面的文章所表述的他說只要有點值保障不管是1.1元或1.0.95元最後都可能衝破健保預算導致健保費必須一直調漲這是他從裡面的文章所提到的那他的理由是認為這是一個賽局 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
4937.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
4958.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
他說:「醫師看病跟車廠修車不一樣一來醫師是跟健保請錢不是跟病人再者醫師說要檢查開藥打針病人很難掉頭就走去找另一家不像修車我覺得太貴或沒有必要就不讓你修 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
4959.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
4975.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
所以說醫師看病全憑職業良心不像修車會有消費者端的制衡力量因此健保必須設計一個制衡力量以免醫師為了賺錢充量做了不該做的檢查都開了沒有幫助的藥 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
4977.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
4997.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
我相信醫師都是憑著我們的職業道德職業良心在整治我們的病人這個是可以理解而且是大家都願意來做這樣的事情不過從賽局理論來看的話這個其實是另外一個層次的擔心我們也希望能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
4998.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
4999.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
公路建設特別條例草案 中華民國公路建設特別條例草案 中華民國公路 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5027.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5053.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
這個電子入法以後導致後面的困難引起了更大的一些影響。」以上謝謝王振旭委員的發言下面有兩位登記的委員一個洪孟凱委員一個莊瑞雄委員我跟兩位委員報告一下我們先請中央健保局石署長報告完畢之後再請洪委員跟莊委員好不好因為我們一直在這邊講完我們要互動麻煩請中央健康保險署石署長請報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5056.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5071.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
院長還有各位委員以下健保署做一些補充的說明那麼事實上剛剛有提到總額的成長健保的總額在2015年的時候當年度總額是5908億 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5074.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5077.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
公路建設特別條例草案 中華民旅遊公路建設特別條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5096.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5108.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
2015年2003年3774億2015年5908億2015年5908億2015年5908億2015年5908億2015年5908億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4.27億2015年平均4 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5125.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5146.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
那麼至於剛剛提到這個點子低落的問題呢他有很多的原因所造成當然總而應當要適當的成長但是也有一些使用上那麼過度或不當利用的情形所以在制度的設計面上呢那麼應該要同時的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5147.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5171.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
在總額成長的部分分成兩塊,一個是把原本在總額裡面的一些項目移出由公務預算,也是讓總額的餅可以變大。第二個是總額的適度成長,每年的總額成長是依據人口率的成長, |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5172.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5199.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
還有考慮人口結構因為高齡化會影響到醫療支出的成長所以也要考慮到人口結構的變化第三個會考量到經濟因素也就是這個物價的指數經濟的成長率服務成本指數所以很多的因素再加上這個服務密集度的改變那麼所預定所以這個總額的成長呢那麼也會考量到 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5200.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5213.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
在明年度也會考量到近年的通膨情形也會反映到也就是剛剛部長會提到為什麼明年的總額成長率預估的應該會是歷年是最高的 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5214.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5216.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案． |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5243.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5269.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
佔比比較高的不是靠機器的是人力的付出比較高的支付項目一些極重難證那麼比較不願意投入的那麼應該要調高他的支付標準甚至保障點子在過去一段時間曾經也因為外科的人力的低落所以我們就手術的項目已經是保障一點一塊錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5270.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
5288.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
所以類似像這樣的做法是我們接下來在今年六月已經成立了一個支付標準橫平性評量規劃專家小組在討論來修正那麼希望來改善醫事人員的待遇那麼第三個呢是地域上的平衡問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
5289.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
5313.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
對於一些山地離島資源不足的地區其實它的人口正在流失那如果按照原本的總額的配置它當然是會依據人口跟醫療的利用情形做配置所以因此我們也做了一些保障對於這些偏遠地區比如說今年下半年我們就對 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
5314.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
5337.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
離島地區他的住院點值通通加成三成30%來支付因為他的人口是比較少但是相對的投入的資本這個成本是比較高的那我們也在規劃本島的這個燈塔型的地區醫院就是考量到他的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
5340.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
5367.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
服務的市場在萎縮,但是必須保障它能夠營運,甚至保障收入,而不是只有點值保障而已。」因此如果說我們採齊頭式的點值保障的話,那麼我們剛剛所說的這些調整的措施,能夠產生的影響跟改革的效果,那麼就會變得薄弱,那麼這個是第一個報告。 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
5367.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
5369.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
5390.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
5391.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
5406.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
5410.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案． |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
5424.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
5452.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
我相信這樣也能夠一方面呢讓健保更永續的發展一方面也改善這個民眾用藥的可敬性那當然最後呢這個健保的管理的效率也要提高那麼包含如何這個抑制不必要的醫療的這個支出減少看病的次數分級的醫療減少不必要的重複用藥等等這些那麼我們也都會加強來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
5454.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
5456.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
5470.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
5495.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
因為延續工勞保時代的一些用藥那當時候這些只是藥品因為在工勞保時代就有給付所以他就同時納入了這個健保的給付但是至今呢也從過去的兩千多項那麼減少到現在大概是815項那麼給付我們也是逐步的在在檢討那未來我們會朝這個方向那麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
5496.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
5519.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
主義地去檢視它的必要性,包含像兒童用藥的必要性、急救,或者是一些我們公共用藥一定要有的、臨床上必要的,來保留其他的,我們會逐步地讓它退出健保。」所以大概有這幾項的說明。 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
5522.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
5523.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
公路建設特別條例草案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
5536.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
5562.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
考察。」謝謝。謝謝施書長的報告。接下來請侯孟凱委員發言,請莊瑞雄委員請準備。來,院長謝謝喔。我想在我這邊來做發言的時候,我只先確定行政部門一個態度喔。今天是協商,已經走到現在了。協商的部分就是大家各自把版本拿出來,但很顯然的到現在一個多小時過去了,行政部門是不是就是完全不考慮任何的變動?這就是你們的態度是不是? |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
5563.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
5577.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
沒有任何的變動你們沒有版本你們就是照原有的版本所以我們現在討論的就是要嘛就是國民黨修正要嘛就是我們其他委員修正行政部門沒有任何版本就是依照原條文不變是不是這個意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
5579.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
5583.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
中華民國大學教育學院教育學院教育學院教育學院教育學院教育學院教育學院 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
5602.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
5625.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
好來來來來好謝謝謝謝邱部長的回答直播全國人民或說關心健保改革的人大家都在看我先講一下2018年5月28號也一樣邱太元委員向衛福部次長請教為什麼點職一點議員會遭受到反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
5629.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
5650.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
臺灣健保覆蓋率高達99%支出僅佔GDP的67%這些都是建立在醫護人員的血汗付出而造成支付項目縮減支付金額下降新藥新科技無法進入健保市場等諸多原因更嚴重影響民眾的健康保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
5651.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
5668.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
2018年的邱太元委員這樣子說大家都還可以找得到我先說本席或是我們國民黨團從頭到沒有反對我們要做整體大規模的改革醫療改革本來就應該因為冰凍三尺非一日之寒 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
5669.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
5690.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
所以我們也針對這部分提出了附帶決議包括我們的附帶決議有民眾黨的版本或是我們國民黨的委員的版本或者是我們也希望是說未來要趕快召集跨部會的醫療改革會議提出相關的部分因為我們知道我們也沒有很紛爭認為說健保點值調到1.1元或是1.0.95元之後問題就解決了 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
5695.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
5715.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
我們又不是魔法仙女這樣子一變然後就什麼事都沒了我們沒有那麼天真所以我們當然希望是要跨全面的醫療改革現在執政的是民進黨如果一月十三號是國民黨當選國民黨一樣負起責任的召開全國跨部會的醫療改革會議但是因為沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
5716.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
5741.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
我們的總統候選人輸了所以現在是執政民進黨當然要負起責任可是我想強調的觀念是這完全不衝突跟矛盾健保點值提升是因為現在已經有很多的醫護人員他已經撐不住了因為他犧牲太久了而其他的改革能夠降低成本或者是增加我們新藥等等的這些部分這個本來也應該做並行不備 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
5743.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
5769.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
現在再講明天我就已經沒有飯吃了你跟我講一年後我要帶你去巴厘島度假那完全邏輯是沒有辦法對焦所以我覺得還是回歸我剛剛講了如果說今天行政部門態度只是我沒有要改但是請相信我一年之後一年之後我會再來做那我剛剛也聽到我們部長講如果一年之後改善環境改善爭議真的不夠再來檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
5772.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
5797.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
還是什麼意思?就是現在討論的事情每年再來,還讓我等一年一年後真的沒做到的時候,那個時候再討論我想真的不是這樣的態度部長我不是針對您個人請我對事不對人任何一個人在現在這個職務我都一樣的態度我不是針對您個人我現在在講的其實重點在哪裡?重點是我們很多委員都講過 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
5799.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
5823.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
當賴清德總統候選人他在講說他提出健保點資1.1.1元的時候很多民眾是相信或以為他已經想好裁員想好方法想好解決的方式所以願意在1月13號選擇他結果1月13號選擇完他之後過了三四個月到現在居然民進黨的代表講是說那個是賴清德的目標啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
5824.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
5846.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
那個是目標啦我現在在發言可不可以不要插我的嘴剛你在發言我沒有插你的嘴你不要糾正我因為這就是中國國人看到賴清德的態度你要越講只會自己越漏氣我再來講另外一件事情啦如果我說這樣子說得過去的話那就真的印證了台灣有一個國會嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
5848.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
5874.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
張昂三民拍謝 今天張梅拍謝就是這個道理啊我在選前跟大家講一點一點一元結果大家相信了結果選完四個月之後告訴你說那個是我的目標我的未來的方向但是我先說我不扣賴清德總統的帽子因為賴清德總統沒有親口講這句話他只有親口講一點一點一元但他沒有講說那個目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
5874.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
5890.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
所以這我不知道是不是柯總召的一個抄議可是現在我們拉回來拉回來講柯總召我們互相尊重因為大家都是三長所以你尊重我我尊重你你不尊重我我沒有辦法尊重你最後我只講啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
5892.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
5916.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
賴清德講說一點一元是一月九號的新聞他講說他最有能力解決這是賴清德的話在昨天他講說每點值一點一元賴清德表達憂心並起三思那哪一個是賴清德哪一個是我們現在的總統好所以我最後我只用剛剛我們也有黨團代表也有講臺大醫院院長的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
5918.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
5946.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
臺大醫院院長的話要講就不要只講一半臺大醫院院長的話沒有錯他講說臺大醫院院長吳明賢表示修法保障點值1.1元恐會導致過度醫療沒錯他講前半段但是請聽後半段他說建議保障點值1.0.92至0.95元朝有價健保發展讓急難重 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
5947.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
5969.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
急重難寒等科別從事有價醫療能夠來發揮價格保障。」所以臺大醫院院長吳明賢講的是1.0.92到0.95這也符合我們今天國民黨團所提出來的版本我們有很多委員提的版本但國民黨團提的版本是健保點值調漲成1.0.95元 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
5972.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
5974.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
這也是台大醫院院長我想全國醫療專業來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
5979.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6003.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
要講說比臺大院院長來得好的可能沒幾位我絕對不是所以我相信專業我尊重專業我支持健保點值調整1.0.95元如果說今天大家各自表述民進黨的態度或是行政部門態度還是說鐵板一塊我就是不動那抱歉就沒有共識沒有共識沒有交集的話我想就依照相關意識該怎麼處理就怎麼處理謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6005.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6027.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
謝謝洪孟凱委員發言,接下來請莊瑞雄委員發言,請陳昭、鍾嘉斌委員準備。其實該怎麼處理我相信到最後會有答案,但是各個政黨尤其我看這些提案的時候,其實我也認為提案的人不夠負責任,沒有講清楚,醫療資源擴大大家都希望, |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6034.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6062.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
大家都希望。」醫療資源擴大就只有兩個方法我的頭腦裡面想得到的就兩個方法政府投錢第二個就是健保費提高就是這樣嘛 大家都很清楚嘛大家都很清楚其實各政黨我們都知道問題在什麼地方啊比如說歷任的政府裡面對這個健保他有沒有意識到這個嚴重性 都有啦阿扁執政他有沒有去提高 有啦馬英九去執政有沒有去提高 也有啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6063.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6090.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
提高最多的是誰?到八千多百多億的蔡英文啊。但是大家還是不滿意嗎?還是過勞嗎?因為社會進步了。社會進步都希望對醫療人員有更大的一個保障。剛曾經陳委員在談的時候,我也意識到那個問題啊。確實啊,最近我們很多民眾都會來拜託說,阿太告急診室啊,都沒有病床。這是真的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6090.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6117.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
但重點就是說那這個是不是連結到跟這個健保點值提高畫上等號其實也未必那你只能講說各醫院的投資裡面可能說是不是這個病床數不夠或者說因為剛好有疫情還是防疫的問題我直接把它畫上等號我是覺得那又另外一件事邱部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6119.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6138.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
還沒當部長以前每天在我辦公室混啊他講過什麼我最清楚啊我也問過他我講給你那幾孫子的孫子喔你都講要提高點子你的意思是要保障嗎他說不然要提高提高在我學法的立場是入法才叫做 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6139.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6157.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
保障呢?他說沒有要入法我先講清楚先講清楚也就是說他過去當醫界醫師公會的理事長他幫醫師、幫醫護來爭取權利是合理的他的身份是合理的那我有問過他說你有要入法嗎?他又跟我說沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6159.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6180.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
所以也就是說你今天當了部長你就知道當家方知財米貴你就知道鹽跟米很貴很貴所以人家都給你16年18年修理但是我知道你當初不是要講立法你是要立法來保障是說要來提高這個點子這個大家要講清楚另外我一直都一直認為說是不是剛剛那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6187.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6204.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
那些時事署長剛剛也有提到的這些措施我們協商代表大家可以考慮一下他那一些方案可不可行不然我們只說只要要入法像蘇星成蘇委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6206.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6210.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
我最不想浪費醫療資源我最不想浪費醫療資源我最不想浪費醫療資源我最不想浪費醫療資源我最不想浪費醫療資源我最不想浪費醫療資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6235.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6243.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
我們光一直給他點子所以這個部分該改革的部分我們是不是做不夠我們現在討論的只是在討論點子討論點子我們只是單純去提高醫事人員的待遇讓他覺得他滿足一點這樣而已只是在說這個而已這跟我們要去照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6256.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6269.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
老百姓萬一他去到醫院去這又兩件事囉當然都有因果關係你說醫師的待遇不好醫護人員的待遇不好人照料料的要怎麼照顧老百姓但是問題是說只有這兩項你其他都沒做到所以我倒比較認同剛剛石署長提出的這一些整個我們衛福部以後你的方向是什麼但是你還是要比較具體一點啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
6283.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
6283.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
花東快速公路建設特別條例草案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
6301.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
6307.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
但是你們這個方案要更具體,就告訴立法院說我這樣起來是一種改革,也不用去我國家來錄影,也不用讓老百姓的健保費來提高,講一個比較聚焦的大家就聽下去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
6317.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
6337.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
以上,邱太陽我給你解套了,你們兩個在這時候我都很清楚,你是只說建設要提高,你沒說入法這我倒知道,可是問你,因為你今天是部長了,立法院當然會提出另外一個說,欸,入法是最簡單的一個保障的方式,但是像蘇清泉委員剛剛跟你提到啊,他沒堅持說什麼什麼1.1、1.0,他也有說到這,所以,是不是在把他在聚焦,把他拉近,民眾也有期待啊,但話大家要講清楚, |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
6347.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
6372.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
這個提案的方式是在講說,都不調高健保費的方式喔。你不告訴我,你們公共有料到一個方案出來,你說健保費快要再提高啊。醫療資源你把它投進去啦,政府本來就要擴大去投資嘛。但是呢,你就說方方面面都要去照顧到,你說到最後沒有去動到這個整個健保費,這我不相信,以上。 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
6375.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
6398.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
謝謝專委選委員的發言接下來我們請鍾嘉斌委員發言陳昭之委員請準備好謝謝主席我想我跟在場多數的人一樣都是健保的受益者那當然我說多數人是因為在場有三位醫事人員還有包括我們部長的話他們其實就是這個健保受益者其中的奉獻者 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
6399.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
6418.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
我們的受益其實來自於很多醫事人員的付出跟奉獻所以我們今天在這個問題我們的目標就是怎麼樣讓這些我們健保受益者我們可以繼續的不要讓醫事人員是奉獻而是得到他們合理的待遇這是大家的目標那正確的目標其實透過正確的方法來達成 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
6419.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
6421.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
6446.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
6470.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
它是逐年的在成長大概四點多趴但是它除以我們的服務量如果我們服務量增長的比這四點多趴來得快那我們的點值就必然下降這是必然的那當我們把點值固定的時候那我們的服務量又持續上升那為了要維持這個固定的點值我們的總額預算就必須跟著服務量同步提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
6471.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
6487.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
所以今天我們要談的是今天台灣的健保的總額幾乎是在1990年代相較於其他國家幾乎很少採用這樣的剛性的總額管理但是這個剛性的總額管理呢也讓台灣過去這20年來我們的健保呢得到了一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
6487.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
6514.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
相較之下當然雖然我們國人不滿意但是相對世界各國確實有一個不錯的成績但這個成績很難維持我試問啦我們可不可以因為點子這個東西是個事後的結果不是一個事前的決定我再強調一次點子是事後得到的就是你在前一年決定的總額預算然後當年有多少的服務量除了之後就得到一個最後的點子 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
6515.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
6528.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
所以點子是一個觀察我們醫事人員有沒有得到應有的待遇的一個事後的檢證指標我舉例來講我們今天可以立法去決定公務人員的考試及格率必須是10%嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
6530.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
6551.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
我們不可能定出一個事前定出到今年的高考及格率必須10%因為每一年的考生報名多少我們不知道每一年各機關的需求緣和多少我們不知道但是我們可以從最後考生的及格率來看一下這個供需之間有沒有需要調整我舉例來講今天這裡沒有考試類院的人員在場 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
6552.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
6574.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
過去驗光師入法之後他作為專業人員考考的一個項目之後我們開始在民國一百零幾年開始有驗光師第一次的考試那時候第一次考試的入取率高達三十幾%以至於考試員說那太多了以後驗光師滿街跑必須控制一下第二年當到不到個位數 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
6575.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
6603.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
考試院他在處理專業人員考試的時候他會考量市場上需要的專業人員的服務有多少量我每年准許讓多少的人的及格投入市場這是一個事後管理的指標那我們今天把一個事後管理的指標硬生生的入法就破壞了這個指標觀察到的現象影響到必要的調整所以我們希望說今天我們用對的方法我還是抱歉 院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
6604.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
6607.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
這個問題我們用點子來作為提高醫事人員的待遇 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
6616.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
6634.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
這個似乎是我是覺得抓錯重點了我們應該是聽聽剛剛實務長講的對於像我們屏東很多偏遠地區的醫事人員他所做的服務是不是有得到應有的點子計算我們今天總而計算之的一個最大問題是什麼他讓提供服務的人要幫服務去做把關去踩煞車 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
6635.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
6645.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
我要扮演油門要扮演煞車為難醫事人員照說在我們一般的商業保險當中受服務者他要扮演煞車當我沒有那個能力出這麼多錢的時候我不會購買這些服務但是今天我們是讓服務的提供者 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
6650.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
6668.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
來判斷說如果提供這個服務未來我的點值下降我不要提供這個服務我們去為難服務的提供者要他去踩煞車這才是我們目前剛性的總額預算制當中因為點值的浮動所造成醫事人員為難之處所以呢我是覺得說具體來講應該是就 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
6672.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
6700.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
衛福部應該就前一年的點子的情況來檢討我們的總額的成長是否足夠我們服務量的增長有沒有得到不必要的一些腐爛是不是應該有所的一個節制是從服務量的抑制跟總額預算的提高來讓點子能夠保障到醫事人員合理的待遇而不是把點子控制住了然後呢我服務量我不管那我們每年每年的預算提高之後我們還是要從 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
6701.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
6717.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
享受健保的人身上去從健保費上來給付啊。」所以我是覺得健保費的一個調整呢他必然要有一個總額的概念去控制所以這裡呢我是覺得我們現在談論點值似乎表面上在幫醫生人員增加他的服務的他的待遇事實上錯了 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
6718.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
6742.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
典值只是檢討之前他所付出的有沒有達到合理那怎麼樣的合理應該從事後的服務量的增減服務量的增高的幅度以及我們總預算提高的幅度來讓他促成典值能夠在來年回到一個應有的水準那是事後的事情不是事前透過入法我們難道能夠定一個法來規定及格率是多少嗎入許率是多少嗎沒有辦法謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
6744.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
6764.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
謝謝鍾嘉斌委員的發言接下來是陳昭之委員發言柯建民總召請準備拜託一下重複的就不用再說了這樣我們可以縮減時間後面還有好幾個案子謝謝請謝謝主席兩位首長就麻煩蓋關承受我知道部長宅上任兩個月那署長您是上任一年五個月但是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
6765.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
6792.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
如果您剛剛提到的這些方法如果是可行的話我們今天不會有這麼漫長或爭議性的討論剛剛洪委員有提到就是說執政黨或是這個行政部門沒有提出相對的這個版本這個真的是不負責任那我要提的是不只是沒有動有時候還是反其道而行請概括承受第一個剛剛我有抓到兩個首長所談的一個重點關鍵資源一個叫分級一個叫資源培植但目前是反其道而行不只是不動 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
6794.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
6799.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
醫學中心明明根據我們醫療網計畫是兩百萬人一間醫學中心為什麼你今天繼續增加去年還是違規還有這個改變遊戲規則增加了三家醫學中心這個就是明明知道這個點值在惡化中但是醫學中心還是繼續在增加這個惡化點值第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
6820.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
6825.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
如果病床增加會降低惡化點值為什麼你們現在還允許1.2萬床的病床正在擴建或準備擴建呢明明台灣有40%的空床那是因為缺乏護理師所以整個分級醫療你們一邊談分級醫療一邊是反其道而行那我個人看法跟蘇慶文有點一樣請不要再找醫學中心的院長來為執政長做這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
6850.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
6874.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
做答辯這是不公平的因為醫學中心相對存活的非常好病床滿意沒有缺這個護理師還導致這個急診的滿足溢出到客廳去所以這個明明全台灣有百分之四的空床他們也樂的繼續照顧輕症的這個病人所以這個對於資源配置的一分級醫療跟你們倒行逆施資源配置部分那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
6877.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
6885.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
集中南海症沒有人反對要照顧慢性病症當然這個對長期的這個很多後和病症是有幫助的但是小病症 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
6886.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
6914.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
你一直要裝在同一個籃子裡那一個籃子你沒有退出就一直加入那科技一直進步而且它的研發費用規格越來越高那你當然是裝不下啊所以你今天談的這些東西就算你努力如何去監測它整個一個不該做的或是不管是濫用的或是可能這個無效的醫療但是你很努力但是我們看不到成果所以今天才有這些討論所以我希望你們會很負責任的提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
6915.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
6915.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
公路建設特別條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
6942.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
6959.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
謝謝陳昭志委員的發言接下來是我們柯委員發言但是我跟黨團幹部還有柯委員報告一下柯總召發言完畢之後我會喊休息五分鐘我們在最後一次來協商看可不可以求同存異五分鐘之後我就進行處理了請柯建民總召 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
6961.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
6975.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
院長、各位委員同仁大概上次講完這次大家要講一輪啦那也應該面對說院長講得沒有錯我們這個問題要如何面對大家一直在合格演示然後敬畏分明然後同樣的話再講 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
6978.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7004.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
尤其有些不實人物也在講那總統講的話是為目標那他一直在奚落國際初步黨當立委委員的提案那是提案而已不是入法我們今天要務實來談就是說包括蘇英文講說這個以後都用腳投票那個陳委員講過嘛一直用腳投票這不是用恐嚇的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7006.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7035.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
這前幾集已經差不多結束而已我們在故事來談中華人民委員說這裡有三個議事人員不是啦,我也是啦王仲熙也是我不是只有一生出生的而且我全程見證健保民國八四年的時候那時候表決三天我都在場健保三十年包括我們現在講教改三十年也在檢討的時候我從總統也是那時候我最早去處理的所以我們總共二十二年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7037.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7054.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
在2013年的時候馬英九也想二代健保從交易從守則改到普通保費那個歷史大家都很清楚所以健保在三四年來面對有一些單坦白講是要檢討要改進的時候但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7055.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7071.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
並不是說一句話,你不修法,今天我昨天前委員說,欸,總舊你臉久了再講,不然不用講。那何某凱也差不多這樣的言論嘛,所以說國民黨說說,反正我們人多就表決,就是直接就修法,難道這個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7073.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7090.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
聽起來最直接最簡單,有辦法解決問題嗎?尤其蘇貞媛,蘇貞媛我要告訴你,你是本身是第七院的,你應該立意迴避啊,你這樣一個修法1.0了以後,你的1月1年至少增加一億多的預算,所以這個應該迴避 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7094.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7105.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
學長告訴你,你要利益迴避,第四議員改1.060,你的議員一年增加多少收入?一億多,所以這一點大家要很理性來談 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7107.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7130.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
難道只有說徽修只有這樣一條路嗎?總統之委剛才談一些蠻合理的東西但是他有一些其實有一些挑戰不要拎到而行嘛我們要談也要有分級交剛才村部長講家庭意識制度等等那事實上部長也談了十幾種方法所以今天院長講到這裡的時候每天就要 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7132.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7133.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
公路建設特別條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7163.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7164.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
行政委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7188.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7209.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
已經很誠意講出這些方法到底要拿出來的時候,我們應該回到比較理性的,不是今天在這裡講給醫事人員聽,但是各位,健保不是跟醫生一樣,我跟醫生我也知道,我也是不要跟他倒三天,但是你要照顧整個制度,那個破壞掉啊,這個整個制度破產破壞的時候, |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7210.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7224.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
影響首席是誰?當然就是優舍嘛!是病人嘛!全民嘛!所以這個邏輯底下我希望大家等一下公布後來副總召你現在是一句話能定天下啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7227.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
7248.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
我們大家說好了,不要想法,但是要求黨團要怎麼做,他現在可以做,拿出來歷史出來,要談一個共同決議,這樣才是比較理性務實的啦,我這話表決是政府負責的嘛,這做表演而已嘛,我相信議事會員看看你們這樣一個表決,1.1塊錢,他們知道,這做個搞定表演,騙我們這幹什麼呢,所以我是認為啦, |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
7256.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
7270.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
院長你等一下休息五分鐘,你去蜿蜒鑲嵌我們對面那個,那個牌的人好不好?我們柯建民總召向衝鋒,物資衝鋒全部都橫掃了一遍以後,然後叫我來勸大家,我們休息五分鐘,大家寫什麼?不過是有聽眾而已啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
7278.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
7287.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
我覺得比較可能的可以解決的方式是共同做一個決議他能夠做得到還是要求他怎麼做因為不會存在說這次沒有說要等十年的問題好不好不要講政治語言啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
11224.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
11234.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
好謝謝謝謝各位黨團幹部各位列席的委員謝謝各位閣員跟官員大家請就座 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
11256.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
11284.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
好,向各位黨團幹部各位列席委員還有我們邱部長各位列席官員報告本案各黨團迄今仍然未能達成共識我們送院會處理下一案委員長等一下是哪一個送院會處理法律啊對啊不是,我要講一下好不好我們全民健康保險法修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
11286.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
11291.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
好,我先做完宣讀好不好,我們進行院會處理,接下來...黃昌昌委員請發言,柯建民總召請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
11295.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
11303.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
我先講,你這樣沒關係,我還先講沒關係,院長你不要這樣搞我,我不會白癡你知道嗎,我先跟你講,他要講沒有關係,給他先講,結果你要先錄,我說等一下我要講完,你說好,怎麼可以這樣,你不要,我們今天才在理他,你把他當個白癡來處理啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
11316.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
11323.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
他剛剛過來說他希望去徵詢發言,我說好,他舉手了,接下來是你發言。絕無此事,我不是說下面你發言嗎?我已經宣布了柯總召請準備啊。好,黃三文。 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
11341.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
11368.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
謝院長我想今天臺灣民眾黨來出席這個協商主要是因為這個案子也很重要那剛剛前面大家也溝通了很久那其實最後的主決議大家文字都已經差不多了只剩下一個叫做建請衛福部應進行健保改革具體措施這個的問題那我是覺得這個案子我必須還是要代表臺灣民眾黨在今天表達我們一些這幾天的立場主要是在昨天還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
11369.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
11386.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
上次我們協商完畢有關新人民相關的基本法我今天非常的遺憾還要再來這邊說這件事我還是希望黨團在協商完成前沒有共同的意見或意見不同立場不同都很正常 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
11386.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
11387.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
11413.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
11429.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
陳昭志委員也下了三個附帶決議,剛剛也跟部裡面溝通,我也覺得這件事情是一件好事,現在大概剩下最後兩個這個文字上面的處理,我是覺得如果可以達到共識那是更好,但是沒有共識的話也請大家不要再互相攻擊,謝謝。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
11434.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
11448.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
院長各位委員同仁,我們今天談論《全民健康法》已經談了兩天了,講得蠻極致的,那最後大家有誠意用婦來結議來處理,這個是第一點。主結議沒有關係,我沒有意見,你天王級主結議我沒有意見。 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
11456.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
11477.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
第一個我們一樣一樣來後來改土地沒有問題第二個那個文字是衛福寫的他寫建請結果國民黨就簽了結果我老爺黃昌昌委員他說不行他要加一個建請他要加一個因我老爺OK結果老回頭過來國民黨說不行要把建請發掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
11478.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
11505.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
所以簽了就純正,因為五六個簽了起來,建行那個五六簽,黃昌簽,黃昌說不行他要加因,我說OK,那我的因。這樣應該是往前比你們更進一步,結果你們現在被你們建行要撤簽,這樣怎麼公路嘛。我現在講一個問題,為什麼我一直堅持說,大家認真想想看。第一個,用修法來表決都是騙人騙局的啊。 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
11505.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
11527.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
然後他們講做不到的事情不要答應。好。第二個,這女漢子主席的內容,在明年六月底,六月底半年內,因為今年已經沒有預算了,明月預算半年內你要抽出七百多億,怎麼有可能?舉出七百多億也都不可能。 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
11528.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
11551.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
第二個明年的運算也要到年底結束有主意是結算以後才能真的數字才會出來嘛你三半年就要把叫他一定要弄出確的而已這直接不可能也還沒結算嘛所以大家想一想我們今天要做的事情是不是說滿足給哪來騙人騙己的應該很務實來解決問題才對我是比較這樣的立場一半你然後從 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
11557.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
11582.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
也沒有結算,不然也都是700多億,誰審訊都沒辦法,也要年底結算以後才知道嘛,所以大家想一想有沒有可能半年弄出400多億,不可能的,從大陸滿貧囊,比如說騙一屆,一屆好像表決你們贏了,修法贏了,啊怎麼啦,那都是騙人騙己的,我們物質,大家都要解決問題, |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
11583.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
11586.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
我以來是醫界我很清楚這些事情所以我們要誠懇來談事情比較好謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
11591.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
11617.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
我們已經做完陳玉珍委員發言羅廷委員請準備所以我覺得既然如果大家真的沒有辦法這個組結也沒辦法的話是不是我們就節省時間是不是協商不成要進入表決但是我還是要反駁柯總召所謂騙人騙己這種事情每一年財政部超徵兩三千億不就都一直在欺騙國人財政部每一年都在騙人騙己 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
11619.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
11638.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
民進黨、執政團隊、行政院、相關部會,覺得說這個法案通過以後有自愛難行,那就按照現在我們可以再呼籲嘛。呼籲如果又通過以後,那歡迎他申請釋憲嘛。反正現在政府對任何法案,不管是政治議題啊,或是經濟法案、民生法案,他也要釋憲嘛。對不對?那你們還是有法律這個救濟的途徑可以走嘛。 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
11640.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
11654.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
科總長你一直在說什麼啊這什麼討論沒有意義什麼什麼的表決這是什麼騙人騙你做這些不能做的事情那我們四年來我們過去這幾年來我們在立法院民進黨強行通過很多法案我們就不就欺騙國人好幾年 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
11657.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
11675.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
謝謝以上我覺得說大家節省時間了謝謝請羅廷惠發言請掌握時間謝謝好謝謝我想剛剛真的很可惜因為只差兩我想這個衛福部啊他已經帶你出這樣子了那並沒有在說半年內要擠出700因為最後他是寫114年6月30所以是整整會有一年的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
11677.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
11695.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
因為今年醫生編完了嘛我知道但是時間點我們還是要回歸到整個內部寫的一個文章就只差兩個字那就是是不是要寫建請還是拜託一下柯總召您這麼有智慧的長者我知道您想的這麼多我知道您想的很多沒有錯沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
11698.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
11722.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
但是為了醫療界,我們先趕緊定案,避免讓醫療界整個提心吊膽。」我還是要再次提到,我們現在這裡這個立法委員的這個手冊,釋字第四一九號,您就有講過,這裡面就有寫到了,立法院所為之決議僅屬建議性質,其實這裡面已經寫得很清楚,不一定要在今天的主決議還要再提到建請兩個字,所以我想, |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
11723.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
11730.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
我們是不是就是大和解為了醫護人員的前提我們趕緊把這個字簽下去讓整個醫療單位都安心拜託柯總召 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
11753.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
11772.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
我也知道預算法,預算法上面五十二條寫著預算的時候可以匯加條件及期限那違法所不符合者無效,我也可以用這個來當理啊所以我今天就是要很誠懇地講誠懇的話,那麽還騙人騙己,就這樣而已啊。你希望到國民黨黨團的,我們就是很明確我們要所謂表的言,那我們就表達。 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
11780.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
11787.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
我們現在謝謝邱部長跟列席衛福部所有的相關的官員我們現在接著來協商討論《證券交易法第十四條條文修正草案》謝謝邱部長 謝謝大家 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
11904.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
11933.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
好謝謝謝謝謝謝再次謝謝邱部長謝謝啊各位黨團幹部各位列席的委員我們熱情來歡迎我們今天列席的官員首先我們邀請金管會彭主任委員歡迎您證券期貨局張局長歡迎您財政部政務次長李政務次長歡迎您負稅署您副署長歡迎您 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
11935.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
11939.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
勞動部理專門委員 法務部林參事 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
11954.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
11977.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
像各位黨團幹部報告我們並要協商國民黨團及民眾黨團凝聚證券交易法第十四條條文修正草案兩案本案為禁服二讀故無審查報告我本人在七月五號下午召集但是因為民進黨團跟金管會財政部均持反對意見沒有協商結論今天協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
11979.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
11987.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
我們現在請相關的國民黨團再提出報告好不好請台灣民眾黨團請準備國民黨團請發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
12001.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
12029.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
為了讓我們整個國家整體的勞工所得能夠全面的提升我們希望在上市上規公司尤其是在台灣的GDP總數最大的上市上規公司能夠起帶頭的作用能夠在每一年有盈餘的時候能夠類似加薪減稅的方式能夠把我們整體平均的薪資所得能夠提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
12030.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
12033.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
公路建設特別條例草案 中華民公路建設特別條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
12053.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
12057.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
公路建設特別條例草案 、中華民國公路建設特別條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
12079.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
12108.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
公司有盈餘的時候等於把員工當作股東這樣的一個方式來進行所以我們希望能夠提出這樣一個相對的法案能夠用一個政府立法院權力來推動讓這個員工等於就是受到這個公司特別的重視那未來對整個公司的績效方面也會有相信有逐步的再提升公正盈餘應該會再增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
12109.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
12110.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
謝謝國民黨團副總召發言接下來台灣民眾黨團請發言民進黨團莊瑞雄委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
12115.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
12142.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
政交法第十四條的修正案是臺灣民眾黨提出的加薪二法的第二案那第一案已經順利通過了這中小企業發展條例經濟部後來也提了行政院版那經過三黨的協商之後順利的已經通過了很期待今天政交法第十四條也可以有個美好的結果讓這個員工可以加薪那臺灣民眾黨的版本非常的簡單第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
12144.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
12162.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
民定要求上市商會公司要把一定的延宇作為員工的加薪。第二個加薪的幅度由主管機關就財政部跟勞動部來做一個制定那這個法在財政部已經經過初步的協商了 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
12163.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
12187.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
那一天包括財政部的財政委員會的這個召委羅明財跟我代表台灣民眾黨那天金管會跟金管會主委有在場財政部的這個代表也都在那天我們的結論是要求金管會跟財政部要把你們一直在強調說事實上上市上櫃公司有幫員工加薪的這個比例跟原則把它訂出來我會在今天有沒有帶過來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
12188.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
12203.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
那一天,羅明彩、趙偉跟我的建議是說,你們如果拿過來之後,如果是一個說服大家的,大家可以接受的,那三黨看到什麼方式來通過這個法案,好不好?我們一起來努力,謝謝。」謝謝張七凱委員的發言。接下來我們請莊瑞雄幹長請發言。師堯委員請準備。 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
12206.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
12226.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
我想我必須要再次提出來我上一次的發言我們在政交法裡面這邊要來增訂這樣的一個條文我為什麼一直認為不妥的原因在什麼地方任何公司的治理它在經營的時候它一定必須要哪怕你今年賺錢你不能拿出來分你一定要先彌補虧損 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
12228.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
12247.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
這個是本來整個公司法裡面也講得非常清楚你就必須要你公司你這樣比如說你要提撥一定的一個比例去為員工去調薪分派酬勞這很好啊這沒有人會反對啊可是問題是你不能今天賺了錢我前面的虧損的說我不管他 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
12250.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
12270.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
你這個對其他的債權人也不公平啊那這個也違反整個公司治理的一個原則啊所以為什麼公司法它必須要在它的章程裡面為什麼要明文去講說你公司必須要在你可以在章程裡面去規定你提撥一定的一個比例去幫員工調薪這是對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
12270.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
12272.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
12286.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
12308.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
因為這個法案裡面去提到說中國國民黨的提案利益良善但是我是覺得這個部分也不能這樣太過於草率所以我希望財政部這個地方有沒有辦法去試算因為國民黨這個提案是說超過部分抵扣當年年度營業額的所得額以外可提高到百分之一百五十我們就舉台積電好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
12313.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
12321.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
臺積電不爽死了他那個稅額幾乎都不用繳了那國庫的稅損會有多少我們就舉用臺積電就好我們大家都耳熟能詳的嘛那我臺積電都在做好人就好阿捏專業協同委員等一下我會請那個金管和財政部回答您這個問題對請他們試算一下吳世堯委員請發言然後接下來請柯建民總裁請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
12341.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
12352.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
謝謝主席今天又回來在協商證券交易法第十四條我想很清楚的我們上次也都在強調就在法體系的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
12353.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
12380.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
這樣的一個規範也不應當放在證券交易法應當是在公司法所以大家可以去看看公司法現行的二三五至一條的規範它相對是非常的周延的而且它的處理呢它會有比較一個符合公司治理而且是現況實務比較可行的方式適用分派員工酬勞或獎金的方式來處理所以就體力上不應當放在證券交易法十四條 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
12381.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
12399.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
公司法的做法而且放錯地方那當然我們很清楚的要論述要用立法強制上市上櫃的公司只要有盈餘就一定要加薪這件事情他同樣我們用立法過蕩的去介入了公司治理我想這個我們要商榷 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
12403.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
12417.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
這個盈餘的概念有做投入的人也都很清楚這盈餘是一次性你今年賺錢有盈餘不代表明年也繼續有盈餘但是你的加薪就一次加下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
12419.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
12419.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
12440.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
12460.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
請求要再多商榷。」那在這個等一下請金管會再做說明但是就我自己這邊做的功課也回應剛剛張祺凱委員所垂詢的事情其實以上是上貴公司他相對而言他的酬勞員工的酬勞是相對是比較優渥的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
12461.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
12484.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
因為我們長期以來對於上市商會公司他們不管是CSR或是各種的這個介入的要求都比較高所以他們對於這個主動為員工來加薪或者是用獎金又酬勞的方式都比其他的行業更積極所以說以過去五年來講為這些非主管員工來加薪大概百分之二十一都有做了 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
12484.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
12487.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
上市櫃公司高達63%的上市櫃公司主動發給酬勞,比例高達6乘3加薪的幅度大於5% |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
12508.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
12524.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
大概有三成以上的上市櫃公司換言之沒有透過這樣的立法我們過去的政策工具就是要求上市櫃公司來多為揭露他的公司內部的這個加薪的作為其實已經有相當的成效 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
12525.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
12540.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
所以這個部分還是要請委員就要強制入法的方式來介入公司治理強制有盈於就要加薪而且適用稅務的優惠這個問題層面就更大了所以其實稅損絕對是很高的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
12543.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
12568.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
稅損絕對影響很高不像我們上一次大家共同通過的中小企業條例95%的中小企業你給予他稅務優惠用這個政策工具去鼓勵他為基層的員工加薪甚至是新聘的年輕的或是高齡的這個都絕對支持可是上市上櫃公司本身就是福利收入相對優渥的一個行業那稅損絕對是很高的那絕對是幾十億 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
12572.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
12592.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
公約十頁來起條。」所以這樣一個制度上是不是合理公平這個我們要來回應社會所以請在野黨的委員修法利益良善啦但是如果強制修法強制要求介入公司治理我覺得這真的要聽看聽謝謝吳思瑤發言接下來請柯建民總召請發言副國級總召請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
12600.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
12628.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
我想剛才我們兩個委員講的也蠻完整的那我再要講一個就是說第一個立法體育上面這本來應該放在公司法兩百三十五條之一裡面有關於這個公司治理章程裡面都可以處理所謂公司要怎麼樣分派營業以及這個冗天酬勞乃至於這個員工都是公司治理向下 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
12629.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
12638.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
那增加法那是講市場秩序的嘛就是炒作股票啊有遊戲規則這完全是六題我放錯了 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
12640.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
12660.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
這第一點第二點比較重要就是說其實金馬會議對商事會公司他們有賺錢有分給員工也有一些獎勵措施鼓勵措施這也包括這個有關臺灣高薪一百引導投資投資公司資金投資的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
12661.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
12680.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
這有一些評鑑公司自己的評鑑有推廣這個台灣高清一百的指數當然我剛才有講過這個是有關於CSR那公司的永續經營上面本來就是屬於公司自己高度向下那今天我們要談的就是說這種邏輯上面有問題啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
12682.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
12702.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
我們剛剛通過中華企業發展條例三十六條之後,中華企業去聘員工,然後我們給他抵稅。那現在這個是邏輯,不一樣邏輯,上次我們大家都聯想過了嘛,那有關二十歲以下以及高齡的基層員工,我們的抵稅率會高。 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
12704.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
12717.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
現在同樣的在這個會期,7月12號才參與通過,同樣這個會期,同樣的我們馬上要通過就是說,公司要講加薪的情誼,用國家的資金去賭,這個是很奇怪的邏輯啊,這個我們要再鼓勵這個對財團,擁護財團 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
12727.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
12753.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
那剛剛剛才這個莊育雄委員所談、吳志堯所談的其實這個稅審可以出估將近一百七十八億就以去年的情形在探險的關係大家都要搞這一套的這是一個逆向的價值我們要想清楚就是說到底我們做這個事情要做什麼好 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
12754.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
12770.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
現在這些賺錢的公司他們為了搶人才每家公司反正這個嘉興都是政府在出的因為嘉興就是大家互相爭人才這整個市場世界都亂掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
12771.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
12797.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
我台藝電我要搶林陽科技也可以,搶整台號車,互相之間搶,我就一直把他搶起來了。這種思想自欺就整個破壞掉,我覺得大家在做這個事情的時候,好像不要用簡單邏輯,有加薪我可以給你稅,這個稅本來要交給國家的,他們國家出這些錢, |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
12799.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
12804.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
這樣可以嗎?大家要冷靜想一想,不是這麼簡單的邏輯。主席各位委員,大家好。 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
12827.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
12855.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
我想針對剛才這個本案的修正我們上次的那個想法是說其實現有的機制若根據公司法二三五之一條的部分所謂的公司就有個義務必須要章程裡面必須清楚地定名盈餘的一定比率要分配員工酬勞而且有虧損要撥撥我想公司法會這樣定有它的考慮點因為主要為什麼它是發給酬勞而不是加薪 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
12856.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
12878.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
一加薪大概是個永續性的假設一年的加薪但是呢一年的盈餘但是他加薪會是永續的所以他有考慮到這個問題所以他才用發給酬勞那酬勞可以是一次性的今年盈餘好今年就發那這部分是比較吻合整個公司的管理跟整個經營策略上的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
12879.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
12879.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
公路建設特別條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
12903.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
12919.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
作為經營績效的考量並不是說真的可以拿作現金的分配所以它是比較複雜所以我們在過去的尊重公司在經營上面的考量其實原來這些條文可能跟那個加薪這個利益我們都是支持只是說我們因為跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
12919.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
12935.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
跟公司法二三五條之一的是重複度蠻高,假如意思是一樣的話,其實公司法的考量會更符合這個實務上的考量,那過去可能會認為說比如中小企業加薪,那我們這上市櫃公司是不是也加薪,那 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
12936.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
12956.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
我們畢竟上市位公司是台灣的櫥窗我們總共上市位公司加起來大概一千八九百家我們也看到過去金管會基於我們在管理市場我們對這個台灣的櫥窗產業也給予很多看似強制或是半強制的方式揭露充分的資訊比如他們的平均薪資 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
12957.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
12981.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
所以在過去呢這些廠商們他在過去也都是非常系統性自願性的加薪我這邊有幾個數字跟大家報告一下就是比如說我們上次為公司假設各位想想看五年前他們平均的薪資非主管喔平均薪資大概一百萬左右然後呢到五年後他們平均是一百二十三剛剛就是整個增幅大概有二十一點三八 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
12982.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
12997.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
上貴公司條件稍差一點比如說七年前他大概有七十三萬那現在呢大概有八十七萬左右這個增幅也大概16%所以過去我們上市貴公司其實上都有常態性的加薪畢竟他的條件跟那個中小企業是稍有不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
12998.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
12999.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
13022.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
13023.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
公路建設特別條例草案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
13043.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
13065.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
謝謝彭主委的說明接下來我們請財政部政務司長李次長請發言主席還有各位委員大家好那財政部這邊說明一下基本上就是剛才其實從彭主委的說明我們也知道就是上市會公司他們其實都是依據那個公司的營運績效還有員工的表現以及就是員工的年資他們會適時來為員工加薪 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
13069.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
13093.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
希望能夠瀏覽優秀的人才還有提升企業的競爭力。」我們這邊也有一個數據就是112年度為例大概有半數的上市櫃公司他們平均的員工薪資費用都高於上年度也就是有一半以上的上市櫃公司都有替員工加薪而且大概有30%的上市櫃公司他們的薪資變動的幅度大於5% |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
13095.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
13095.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
13114.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
13116.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
公司治理企業的ESG資訊接入查詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
13134.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
13150.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
以一百一十年一百一十一一百一十二這三個年度我們去跑了前二十大的公司前二十大這個加薪幅度比較高的公司其中呢以一百一十一年度為例 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
13152.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
13164.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
委員提到的這家公司,它其實就替員工加薪了439億元,加薪的比例比上年度成長高達7.46%。如果我們現在用國民黨團的提案來設算的話,它一年的稅收損失, |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
13174.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
13179.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
政府稅收獎勵38億元一家公司獨享利益同年度統計前20大公司稅損61億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
13191.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
13216.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
就20家公司他們有替員工加薪的情況然後按照這個國民黨團的提案來看的話大概就會有61億的稅損那如果以110年度來算的話剛剛我們也算過20大也是一樣我們也是去公開資訊觀測站上面看他們的ESG的資訊然後去涉算的結果前20大大概他的稅損就是101億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
13220.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
13221.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
公路建設特別條例草案。」、中華民公路建設特別條例草案。 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
13245.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
13246.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
公路建設特別條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
13269.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
13270.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
公路建設特別條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
13284.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
13300.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
公司的盈餘來給員工做加薪,這個部分可以減稅。」這是什麼意思呢?加薪一萬塊,他的盈餘本來要,本來,加薪一萬塊,他本來要繳25%2500塊錢的稅,他是去抵扣2500塊的稅,但是7500塊還是要公司本身來出的。 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
13310.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
13312.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
公路建設特別條例草案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
13322.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
13350.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
為什麼台灣有台積電台灣護國神站的奇蹟當時就是在公司盈餘分紅的時候給員工的時候早期啊都是直接公司賺了多少百比例的現金盈餘發給員工但是我們為了國家為了要留住人才科技人才所以當時的台積電並不是說一個員工你可以平均分到十萬塊就十萬塊給你 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
13351.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
13379.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
而是分成十張股票的一萬股股票本來是你分十萬塊的變成分十萬股的每股十元結果在這種情況之下即便是它的股價不是十塊錢它是一百塊錢但是十倍的利益給它的員工所以大家都願意留下來當時台灣就是因為這樣子而留住了這麼多的人才才有今天的台灣奇蹟當時大家想這租稅公不公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
13380.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
13381.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
13401.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
13419.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
對於這個加薪減稅的部分或者是徵聘員工減稅的部分我們兩個黨都有共同的想法現在我們再提修正動議為擴大鼓勵上市上櫃公司為員工加薪上市上櫃公司年度盈餘應提撥一定比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
13419.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
13441.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
作為員工加薪公司提撥稅後營餘為員工加薪,超過一定比例,超過的部分可以抵扣當年營利所得,等於百分之七十五還是要公司來出。政府稅損的部分只有四分之一,所以員工加薪的部分是可以提高整體的士氣。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
13444.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
13460.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
這個莊惠雄幹事長講的確實有他的道理我們在這裡也建議啦那如果說如果防範今年有賺錢那分配那明年有賠錢虧損情況怎麼辦所以我們現在就是說加上去以後怕減不下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
13461.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
13462.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
公路建設特別條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
13476.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
13492.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
大陸跟公司法兩百三十五條之一有類似的情況但是呢我們希望上市商會公司帶頭來那又剛剛又提到所謂台積電的問題台積電本身就是台灣最高薪的族群所以我們也希望說現在我們授權 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
13493.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
13513.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
前項有關上市上櫃公司為員工加薪這相關事項由主管機關惠同財政部勞動部定之。」我們授權給主管機關來定。這授權什麼意思就是說如果說一些非常肌肉的上市公司上市櫃公司他們年收入就已經超過啊超過啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
13514.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
13516.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
公路建設特別條例草案 中華民國公路建設特別條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
13538.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
13540.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
公路建設特別條例草案。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
13561.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
13588.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
中嘉賓委員請發言然後林國成委員請準備好謝謝主席我想關於提高受雇者的薪酬這是各黨不分黨派的共識常年以來台灣的企業在給予員工的薪酬部分比例偏低甚至少於董事的薪酬這已經是一個不爭的事實但是問題還是在於我們對的目標要用正確的方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
13588.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
13596.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
公路建設特別條例草案：立法院黨團協商有關:「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案．並優先開放大陸觀光之限制草案．並優先開放大陸觀光之限制草案．並優先開放大陸觀光之限制草案．並 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
13613.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
13629.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
那公司法跟政交法裡面的大部分的用詞大概有幾種公司法第196條第一項是寫董事之報仇他是寫報仇然後呢公司章程呢在有些公司章程裡面他會把報仇呢寫為仇老 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
13630.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
13652.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
那事實上在我們本條正交法第十四條當中他寫的是酬金就是在第五項寫的是酬金那其實我們都知道報酬、薪酬、酬金、酬勞其實在法律上他是有區分的那如果我們是用一般的用詞叫做酬金或者是報酬其實對於公司來講要分配給員工這個報酬的範圍就相當廣 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
13655.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
13684.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
廣道包括勞動部所說的經常性的薪資包含的什麼加班費、獎金這些之類的這些在我們的法律用詞上都可以統籌在報酬這個字眼當中但是第三個我要再提醒一下我們的證券交易法第十四條這幾年來修過了三次101年、107年跟109年最近一次的修法就是增加了這第五項那這第五項就是呼應了大家的意思你看看它的修正條文當中我們先看本條的第四條 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
13684.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
13703.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
第一、二、三、四、五,請看第五項。」最近的是修法呢?這整個條的內容是在講財報的制定方式基本上它是一個財報當中規定上市會公司它必須接入的公司資訊在財報上所以它特別要求在第五項說到說必須 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
13705.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
13726.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
依照主管機關規定接入公司薪資報酬政策、全體員工平均薪資及調整情形、董事及監察人之酬金等相關資訊。」也是幸虧有了109年有多了這第五項之後,我們現在去金管會去查這些上市會公司,我們可以明顯的看到,我在上一屆的時候,曾經查過, |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
13731.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
13758.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
有些上市位公司呢,它的盈餘不見得比別人多,但是它的董事及監察人的酬金呢,成長的幅度遠高過其全公司非主管的員工的平均程度。」那這就是我們財報當中要介入的,什麼叫做肥貓,什麼叫做公司治理的敗壞,什麼叫做公司的董事董事長幫自己加薪,就是在這一條裡面被介入,但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
13759.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
13777.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
比較可惜的是說這一條它只有規定資訊的接入並沒有賦予主管機關在資訊接入之外要給予它強制性的作為所以我是覺得說這一條的法條增列第六項或者是修正動議的第六項跟第七項用意良好但是呢放在第十四條裡面比較有點 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
13779.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
13780.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
公路建設特別條例草案．建設特別條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
13805.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
13827.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
所以我是覺得透過資訊的揭露,我們或許可以達到類似的效果。不然的話,就回過剛剛吉偉委員的說法,如果希望透過對公司強制的盈餘做分配,應該回歸到公司法裡面,因為公司法裡面有明顯的規定,公司的法人對於哪些人他的一個給付的義務,譬如說對股東,對債權人, |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
13831.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
13847.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
對於員工對於這些人他是有一個給付的順序的比如說在公司裡面我們對於公司欠國家的稅金是要優先給付的所以我希望說我們這個條文用意很好但是考量到第四十條一年的修法他是以資訊接入為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
13849.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
13878.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
是不是我們可以用一個什麼方式把大家所要的目的讓上市公司受到這個資訊接入受投資大眾監督的方式來執行而不是用強制的規定規定在一個財報的一個項目當中就事實上是財報的接入啦如果要規定的比較強制力是在公司法裡面以上建議謝謝鍾嘉賓委員發言跟各位黨團幹部報告我們現在不是不是每一個我都會因為我要跟大家報告八點之後開院會 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
13880.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
13909.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
院會還在繼續開啊?把你先休息所以我們等一下還要去開院會第二個我們後面還有好幾個法律條文第三最重要的因為有的是新過來做的委員黨團幹部比較有經驗我們都會討論到差不多聽完行政部門報告之後一定會休息五分鐘希望能求同存異所以嘉賓委員我絕對不是故意催促你剛剛沒有!傅坤吉委員發言我也說謝謝謝謝就是說拜託重點講出來之後了解就好接下來林國成委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
13910.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
13926.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
副 柯建民總召 請 副院長等一下 八點開什麼院會 副院長當一下 他不在 我以為現在已經沒有案子了 已經念完 沒有了 可以了吧柯總召 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
13928.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
13951.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
我 我 我 我絕對不是要催各位因為我們後面還有好多條文我們希望能夠效率進行等林國聖委員發言完柯總召發言完我們就暫停我們協商五分鐘看可不可以大家能達成共識好不好這是一個必要的問題林國聖委員發言好 請 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
13954.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
13981.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
謝謝院長我想首先啊剛剛大家都一直在提公司法兩百三十五條等等加薪的有關規定我要跟各位委員跟我們主管機關報告在這個部分效果是不髒的你們所投的資料沒有一家公司法裡面的公司賺的錢分紅給員工沒有所以這一點我要替勞工講一下話第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
13982.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
14005.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
公司賺錢幫員工加薪天經地義之事勞工說實在夠可憐但是為什麼要提在證券交易法這個法條很簡單因為這裡是一完整的加薪完整制度第二 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
14006.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
14023.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
還有會計制度是上市上櫃是要經過會計制度嚴審而產生的決議所以這點東西就請主管機關也不要去擔心那另外財政部啊也說這個稅損的問題這點我認為不太苟同 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
14027.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
14053.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
但是你算出來是這樣那我在看國民黨跟我們也把這個稅的部分我們做適度的調整所以我在這裡最後因為時間的關係我要特別自動自花的加薪是完全不可能的可是你如果依法有計放在法令當中那加薪的機率是會比較高的所以這點特別說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
14056.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
14079.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
謝謝林國成委員發言,接下來請柯建民總召發言,結束之後休息五分鐘,請。針對林國成委員講的,供需賺錢,分給員工加薪,天經地義,這我認同,但是沒有所謂說公司會自動自發,很多公司都自動自發,否則的話他怎麼要跟人家競爭呢? |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
14080.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
14082.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
公路建設特別條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
14088.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
14113.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
坦白講比例非常高他們這幾年來統計他們日中會加薪嘛我今天講一個邏輯就是剛剛副委員講的你們不管說政府組出25%或多少那公司也要出不管多少錢百分比多少錢都是從政府的錢去補貼給公司去加薪這是不對不管這個多少這個是邏輯的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
14114.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
14141.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
不過是政府要補助多少,但是這是企業自己要出的,企業本來要出的。所以我們今天要講這個東西,中華企業法案條例上面就是說你是去研工,然後我們給你抵稅錢,你這個沒有增加研工,也沒有增加交易力嘛,只是給他加薪,加薪本來是公司當成每一家公司在面對產業競爭嘛,包括顧問卿委員所講的,就是說研工分農配股, |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
14142.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
14157.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
台南科技MG半導體產業之所謂成功所以我很清楚我這科技MG服務十年啦他們在講MG所有產業成功是將當年政府蓋出來五年免稅然後一直免稅然後還有出產業生意條例所以是這樣起來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
14160.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
14188.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
指數不瘦 土地指數不瘦所以他不必付他很多的資本支出那我們野花能力很強 政府一直在鼓勵 這樣起來的但是呢 這裡面也有很重要的制度 就是婦農配股制度就好像STAR OCEAN有沒有 也有用STAR OCEAN 也有用婦農配股但當年婦農配股十塊錢 現在已經沒有了所以夫婦企業委員在講的十塊錢 當然已經沒有了現在已經要到市值嘛 那可以給你反科列預算 列費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
14189.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
14208.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
所以這一套的國際政府優惠已經導致被打破了所以我個人看法我只是回到一個問題啦公司把觀光加薪政府給倒出去這邏輯不管多少這邏輯對不對而已啦就只要問這個問題嘛謝謝柯總召的發言我們現在休息五分鐘請大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
14217.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
14221.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
討論一下看可不可以能達成一個共識。休息完之後請洪森漢委員發言。」 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
16477.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
16501.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
好謝謝各位黨團幹部請坐各位列席委員各位官員請坐現在我們念一下黨團協商結論時間一百一三年七月十五日星期一下午三十地點紅樓三零二會議室協商主題院會進覆二讀協商國民黨黨團臺灣民眾黨黨團分別凝聚正確交易法第十四條條文修正草案等 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
16502.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
16528.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
二案協商結論第十四條照協商條文通過。」協商主持人協商代表大家請到時候再發給大家看一下那個我知道報告黨團幹部跟列席的委員因為本案已經有了共識後面下面有登記洪森安委員跟沈柏洋委員還要發言嗎?不必因為我怕他 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
16537.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
16543.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
謝謝長者柯建民總召的建議。本案已經有共識,我來宣讀一下協商結論。基於所有的黨團幹部,請仔細聽。明天早上九點繼續在302會議室,我們進行草野協商。 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
16553.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
16567.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
明天早上九點我們繼續在這裡進行草野協商。」那我再一次感謝金管會彭主委財政部理事長各位列席的官員辛苦大家一天了也謝謝所有黨團幹部各位委員同仁我們現在散會脫離現場不然等一下要對話 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
16626.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
16626.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
公路建設特別條例草案。」 |