| IVOD_ID |
160997 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/160997 |
| 日期 |
2025-05-07 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-3-36-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
3 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
15 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2025-05-07T10:42:02+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-05-07T11:00:53+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:18:51 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0a74d2e02c378e06b071155cc5780605115e7528c8151ef53464f2517af749f0f0fba3fac4fb75495ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
羅智強 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:42:02 - 11:00:53 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-05-07T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、法務部調查局局長、行政院打擊詐欺指揮中心指揮官、內政部警政署署長、數位發展部、國家通訊傳播委員會、金融監督管理委員會率所屬相關單位列席就「臺灣遭聯合國警示為東亞、東南亞跨國詐欺集團據點之檢討與防範，及打詐四法與相關子法施行後之具體成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【5月5日及7日兩天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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有請司法院副秘書長 法務部部長 然後內政部警政署署長 還有抒發部副署長好 副署長委員長我想請問我們這位四位首長我們現在台灣的詐騙問題也不嚴重 先請司法院好了 也不嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
33.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
58.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
那個 我們從收案量來看 司法院第一線收案量來看就知道很嚴重非常嚴重 是那我再想請我們的部長 嚴重嗎這個詐騙的確是全民公敵那我們檢察官收案負擔是很嚴重那我們就是強力地掃蕩 也獲得一些的成果警政署 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
59.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
81.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
現在詐騙是算國內的治安面是算比較嚴重的好 我們來速發部我們同意現在其實確實詐騙是嚴重的你看我們今天很好 我們四位首長的共識 台灣詐騙非常嚴重我先分享一個個案 我再從總體來看我們現在詐騙有多嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
84.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
112.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我最近實際上是挨家挨戶在我的選區送感謝信所以路上我會遇到很多的民眾那很多民眾會跟我去談各式各樣的問題有時候是選民陳情有時候要遇到什麼樣的狀況那我就是一意的傾聽你知道我在路上遇到非常多的其中一個太陽是在抱怨哪一件事情嗎部長你知道嗎 猜猜看請我們的司法院副秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
113.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
141.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
就是我剛剛講的題目詐騙詐騙真的很嚴重我遇到一個老太太她看到我就哭了她說她被詐騙了好幾百萬她是追不回來她很難過她說雖然家人其實對她來講那也是個財務很大的一個負擔但家人還算體諒都在安慰她但她覺得自己過不去 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
142.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
168.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
他覺得他自己心裡過不去然後他說這些錢他也追不回來了這是我遇到的許多個案當中的一個我們的詐騙問題有多嚴重已經變成國恥了吧我想這句話我不知道我們部長認不認同已經是台灣對人民來講詐騙已經是非常痛苦的一件事情了沒錯吧 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
171.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
182.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我剛才講說詐騙這個是全民公敵那我想我們經過這一陣子打造司法的一個通過那從源頭的一個行政管制註決了很多的一些詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
186.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
209.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那林貴的這部分也提醒了民眾免受詐騙那另外我們強力掃蕩也獲得一些的成果那我想這部分大家是很努力的來我來看一下 希望說整個一個讓這個詐騙應該現在有個反轉的已經往下的一個跡象了這是我們打造四網非常謝謝您的往下今年三月詐騙的財損是多少錢部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
215.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
221.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
這個財損是要有70億比2月成長了多少2月份大概60億左右到4月變到多少大概75億左右我的數字是76.5億 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
240.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
260.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
再多了將近7.9%我想是不是把這個趨勢跟大家報告一下就是說我們打炸四法之後經過這個努力之後的一個趨勢那從打炸四法就是去年7月我先跟你講一個最簡單的人民的感受跟現在實際的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
263.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
277.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
人民的感受,我在路上走就是感受人民對詐騙真的是深惡痛絕啊,這個感受沒錯吧?沒錯,我覺得還是有努力的空間,來持續再做努力好,謝謝,繼續努力所以我覺得部長,不要鬆懈 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
280.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
305.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我剛剛指的保護部啊先聽我講完啦這個沒有鬆懈如果鬆懈的話我們怎麼可能會好啦我改個實惠我改個實惠我改個實惠詐騙157億被害人打到5080人起訴80人這個還押了50幾個齁那這個我想這是整一個打造團隊的一個努力那我想這部分是有目共睹的啦齁那這跟委員做一個報告我跟部長說啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
308.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
332.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
實際上的成績跟人民的感受我剛都講了不管是從財損來講從這邊感受當然我沒有否定我們這司法單位你們對於打詐的一些努力我沒有否定啦可是作為部長我覺得你要有更多的同理心去看看民眾的痛苦就像說今天你去看看我遇到那個民眾的痛苦他痛不痛苦請問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
337.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
366.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我想這個我們都是跟民眾的感受是一樣的我請署長好了請署長所以我們才會大力的一個掃蕩那從源頭才跨部會的一個整合心再柔軟一點啦謝謝你這個我們都是有一再的你看我們原請部長你對人民感同身受對啊所以說我們一直感同所以我們一直在偵查中的案件要求要大力的查扣然後呢罪章反反 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
366.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
395.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
然後彌補被害人的損害因為被害人真的很可憐所以我們在努力的是要求他們一定要調解和解去賠償被害人的這種的一個損失然後當作良心的一個參考所以這個要給被害人的一些的保障所以我們在落實對詐欺危害防治對被害人的一個保障我想這部分當然我們還自己在努力啦我想我對部長真的是很尊敬也尊重嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
396.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
415.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
你剛剛講話也不打斷你 讓你講 雖然我質詢時間有限可是我今天其實只講一件事情人民的痛苦 我相信署長感受到吧我是站在民眾的同理心上去看待 非常好 謝謝署長要的沒有別的啦 就這份同理心啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
416.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
434.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那接下來講,我最近看到打詐有些狀況,我也不得不說,我覺得行政部門好像打詐有些矛盾,我想要釐清一下。前政書發部官員在接受侯孟楷委員質詢說,聲稱詐騙廣告無法裁罰,是因為內政部沒有提供資料。 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
435.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
456.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那當然刑事局發新聞稿嚴正澄清說截至今年已經通報業者下架3.8萬件詐騙廣告已經匯整移交速發布要求依法懲處我想請問一下速發布刑事局的新聞稿是真的嗎你們兩單位有什麼誤解嗎他們都移交給你們了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
457.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
481.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
是的報告委員我想這個部分是有些時間的落差性就是有關3.8萬件的這個部分確實已經都有通知這個網路平台業者去依法下架所以這個部分有在期限內去做下架這個部分沒有裁罰的問題那至於第二個就是說有關這個內政部他移送15件案件給我們的這個部分確實有一點時間的落差 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
484.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
508.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
在我們上個禮拜五月一號的時候我先跟書發部說啦所以妳也承認有移送嘛是的然後又跟我講一個叫時間差那我只能說妳書發部是狀況外連時間差都沒掌握嗎妳書發部可以在質詢的時候官員可以推給什麼內政部嗎妳如果已經承認是有移送資料啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
509.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
516.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
5月1號的早上9點來我想請教一下我想請教一下請問警政署署長剛剛我們的抒發部官員這樣回答那我想我們未來會再加強互相的這個聯繫跟聯繫上的一個合作的一個關係對啊我覺得你們詐騙彼此比較齊心一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
537.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
546.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
不要遇到責任就開始第一件事想要就先推還先推給自己其他的部會這不是一個政府通力合作的一個做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
547.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
555.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我要跟各位說啦根據統計2021年到2023年刑警人均移送案件數是從62.69件上升到84.56件那三年工作量暴增35%嘛 署長對不對對 沒錯那也因此造成我們現在全國偵查所人力有14%的預算缺額那基層負擔也非常重嘛 對不對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
576.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
600.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
所以因此其實警察負責的我認為是事後的偵辦跟追查這是主要你們的主力在這個地方嘛沒有錯但是詐騙廣告釣魚網站網路詐騙的源頭管制我必須講書發部這不能推給內政部啦不能推給我們那個警政署啦你們才是職責之所在吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
601.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
626.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
是 跟委員報告 這個部分來講的話其實我們在今年的打炸綱02.0開始上路之後肅發部是防炸的主政機關在這裡面呢 我們也做了許多的一些措施我直接講個結論啦我真的覺得積極度是不夠那我要特別講 我要問一下警政署啊你們現在在追查詐騙的實務上網路廣告管制的層面上有沒有遇到什麼問題希望肅發部來協助的 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
629.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
642.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我們現在遇到的問題就是這個廣告商雖然有實名制但是還不斷的重複在下廣告所以源頭一定要止住那如果源頭不止住這些廣告商的話一定要跟他處罰啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
644.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
658.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
一定要處罰 他自己廣告商 炸房條例本來就有規範很清楚他有自主要去做管理 要去做這樣的一個責任但是他不做的話 法已經有規範如果違反這個規範 一定要處罰了 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
660.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
687.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
來 我們請已經承認你現在是你的主責業務的書發部警政署的聲音聽到了沒有有的 我們其實跟警政署一直都有在做聯繫包括說上個禮拜移送過來的15個案件我們也已經在昨天跟警政署還有司法單位一起來研究這15個案子目前應該有一個案子有疑似資料接錄不實的部分我做個結論啦書發部的工作績 想讓國人來評價 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
689.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
713.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
但是無論如何不要把責任推給基層員警打詐事後當然去追很重要可是你那事前的洞沒有補齊你是累死員警現在尤其打詐團的那個詐騙技術網路上的做法真的是日新月異你今天靠基層員警去抓事後去抓怎麼抓得完他利率又這麼的大 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
715 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
736.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
所以今天速發部要把這個事情放在肩膀上去想想看你今天如果你沒有在源頭上把這些詐騙的一些漏洞把它縮緊一點的話你就累死所有警察也抓不完詐騙啊我每天到地上跑活動我都看到我們的員警在那邊宣導反詐騙為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
739.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
767.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
因為詐騙真的很嚴重 幾乎每一個活動沒錯吧 署長每個活動都是我們的警察同仁在宣導反詐騙吧沒有錯幾乎每一個啦所以我都已經熟到變老朋友了啦因為都是警察同仁這邊宣導反詐騙所以我要跟我們政府部門說啊就是說基本上 請你們的合作能夠更緊密啊最後我還是要講一下前面的質詢啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
768.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
793.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我跟部長說我剛剛看到您的答詢答我還是要講一句話我說司法資源是有限的我今天也真的還是很遺憾我念幾個我們的司法人員在媒體受訪的一個感慨然後給我們部長參考他說有基層檢察官受訪說政治介入司法 招橫太明顯 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
794.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
818.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
醫生職責守護捍衛追求的司法正義現在已經被總統跟執政的民進黨完全破壞殆盡也有調查員受訪指出在調查局裡只要有一點良心曾經犯過案的調查員都私下感嘆整個調查系統從上到下早已失去風骨睜眼說瞎話只要跟對組織就可能升官發財私下難看讓人感怒不敢言 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
819.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
841.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
有資深檢察官受訪指出現在好像你隨地吐個痰檢調都可以把你辦成殺人放火重罪檢調司法警政首長全市總統清點的人馬猶如一條鞭作業全部只聽命於一人展現出效忠組織的大動作各地檢調單位還爭相求表現希望讓長官看到也有資深檢察官受訪時說 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
843.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
869.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
在野黨台南宜蘭台北新北黨部陸續遭到檢調搜索檢察官佛曉初級帶隊抓人講得難聽一點就算是重罪五年以上刑責的販毒被告也只是在家收傳票到庭說明而不實聯署書所涉及的偽造文書涉罪重是五年以下刑責卻要大陣仗搜索逮人羈押押人不成 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
870.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
892.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
為達目的一再抗告那麼嚴重不符羈押比例原則我知道部長你不會認同這些話啦對我是不會認同因為我在否認所謂的什麼去介入因為我一直在強調說個案我們都不介入不干涉不指導嘛部長我跟你已經相處一年了你回答的標準公式我也知道那這個本來就是沒有去介入嘛我要先跟部長說 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
894.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
919.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
就像剛剛我問人民的詐騙情感的時候你竟然可以嘟弄了半天連人民的情感你都沒有辦法正面的回應我要跟你講就是說基本上我非常了解部長啊我非常了解部長今天只要是對現在的檢察官對法務部對我們現在執政黨有所指責的部分你都不會放在心上嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
921.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
937.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
今天但是社會上有一把尺在那裡啦我還是做一個簡單的結論這歷史有兩種比較一個就是垂直一個叫水平垂直比較是從古到今我就直接講嘛你之前問了多少次你們也答不出來有哪一個總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
939.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
966.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
陳水扁 馬英九 蔡英文 李登輝到賴清德有哪一個總統執政任內他的司法檢調全台灣大市搜索在野黨黨部並且關押在野黨黨的幹部只有一個啦 賴清德那第二個今天到底有哪一個總統在任內會去以黨主席身份下令要求全黨公職來發動大罷免 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
968.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
995.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
李登輝沒有 蔡英文沒有 陳水扁也沒有 馬英九也沒有啊只有我們天眾英明的賴清德總統有啊你是賴清德總統 賴政府嘛 民進黨 清典的官我不會對你有期待太高啦 你也不可能講出忤逆他們的話但是這些鐵蒸蒸 鐵糟糟的歷史事實擺在眼前不管說今天你們怎麼講 我也要講一個今天剛剛中憲委員或王紅委員資訊重點只有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
996.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
1019.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
作弊當然都要抓 我也不反對作弊要抓可是我看到一個是重如泰山的抓 一個輕如鴻毛的燒我告訴你 人民沒有那麼盲目 看得清清楚楚今天如果說這麼多的一個案件 是這種狀況的話我告訴你 大家看得清楚 最後一個結論講完 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
1024.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
1045.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
這麼多的力量這麼多的司法資源你放在一個剛剛吳宗憲我已經問過了以前從來不去啟用的所謂的績效的一個方式現在用績效去獎勵去抓了之後你有沒有想過站在後面的警政署啊有沒有想過站在後面的員警啊有沒有想過站在後面的老百姓啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
1046.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1053.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
如果你今天有說一個陳菊走了問號能夠4小時逮人的效率去辦詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1055.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1082.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我剛剛一開始講的 那位太太通力合作 權力掃蕩的喔這個都是因為人民的苦 我們感同身受所以我們才會強力的掃蕩 才會打造司法的通過才會聯合在源頭的管制所以當然我們可以做得更好 我們一直都覺得我們做得不夠部長 你知道我現在質詢你 你也知道我對你都很尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1083.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1095.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
就像你剛剛一講話 你也沒回答我問題 我還是讓你回答我講的是什麼 我講的跟你有矛盾嗎我講一個最簡單的點啊今天司法資源就是有限的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1096.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1124.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
今天我今天遇到那位老太太她被詐騙幾百萬抱著我哭這就是鐵證的人民的現實啊那我剛剛說今天有人說陳菊走了問號在網路上問這句問號四小時逮到人難道不是事實嗎可是今天我說你的辦詐騙效率如果有像逮陳菊走了問號這樣的四個小時的績效的話也許那位老太太就不用抱著我哭啊謝謝你啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1126.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1127.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
好 謝謝吳委員 因為待會 |